Miles Gray on Mallrats

Miles Gray from The Daily Zeitgeist joins Chuck to chat about Kevin Smith and his 1995 movie, Mallrats.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Movie Crush, a production of I Heart Radio.

(00:28):
Hey everybody, and welcome to Movie Crush Friday Interview Edition.
And I'm here with the winsome and handsome if I
may say so, Miles Gray, you honor me. Thank you
so much. I am, although as I see your wonderful
beer through the zoom screen, I'm reminded of my own
just paltry uh you know, also ran type facial hair

(00:51):
that I have going on there. It's you know, it's
been a struggle, you know, for me being you know,
on the other side of I'm almost forty in a
few years, but like thinking of how long, I thought, yeah,
like I'll probably have a like some cheekcare and I'm like,
I got patches though. It's good though. Initial statue, thank you. Yeah,

(01:13):
that's the one thing I can Yeah, that's just the mustache. Now.
So you guys listening, they know, Miles, if you listen
to the Daily Zeite guys, which was um kind of
our landmark comedy show here at the Network when we
first got things going really in earnest, and you guys
are still killing it. I mean, how many years has
have been now It's almost gonna be four it'll be wow,

(01:35):
four years um in October doing every day and then
almost two years now of doing it twice a day.
So so what do you what is twice a day?
What's going on with that that? Well, you know, because
of before, when it seemed like the news cycle was
somewhat manageable. During the Trump administration, it was easy to
do a daily show, and then you know, on the

(01:57):
back end of the administration, there was just so much
happening every day constantly that we will find ourselves in
a position to be like, oh, this isn't even gonna
be in the episode that comes out tomorrow because all
this news broke since we recorded. So like we'd hit
people with like a quick middle of the day update
just to see what's trending. So it's not always heavy,
but you know, just just to make sure we're covering

(02:17):
our bases. Wow, let's go in the extra mile. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And so like in a way, I'm like, I can't
believe the amount of episodes that we've done, and in
the back of my mind, I'm like, this is just
right for some AI too then completely create who I Am,
provided it thousands of hours of recorded audio. I can't imagine, man,
I mean people talk to Josh and I about stuff

(02:38):
you should know just twice or I guess with the shorties,
not three times a week, um for all these years,
but like that's twice a week feels like a vacation
compared to uh, once a day, and now it's twice
a day. Well, and when we first started back in
the you know how stuff works days, when we were
starting to show, you know, the head of the network,
Connell was he was asking us if we were sure

(02:59):
we wanted to do it daily show. And I get
it because on the strength of all the other shows
on the network like that are researched and take so
much time to produce, We're even like, yeah, right, daily,
that's a that is a pretty aggressive tick. But I
think with Jack like writing daily even like sort of
moderating cracked and for me, like having worked on daily

(03:22):
shows and things like that, I was like, I think
we can do it. So we may have also just
locked ourselves into a frenetic workpace, but we like it. Well,
it works and it's a funny show. And you're talking
about Jack O'Brien, who uh his co host and jack
Um was uh kind of the first comedy guy at
the network. He came over from crack to dot com,
which was a great website at least when Jack was

(03:44):
running it. I haven't even been on that much since then,
to be honest, but I always had a lot of
respect for Jack and what he brought to the network.
And and you, man, like, where where did you get
your start? Did you start doing like sketch or stand up?
What was your the beginnings in comedy? I mean, yeah,
improv was my first love. I started improvising in high
school because I had a theater teacher who was like,

(04:07):
this is in l A. So yes, like a true
I'm like the Billie Eilish of podcasting, you know, like
I'm in it. You know. My mom's a film critic,
my dad an artist. Yeah, so I've so Anyways, like
in high school, I started doing improv because I was
always just like to do impressions and just be funny.
And then then I realized, oh, yeah, you can make

(04:27):
a career out of that, so I was. I tried
for a while to get into groundlings and was doing
stuff at UCB for a little bit, but before all that,
like I kind of got to that point where I
was like, I need a career. I couldn't quite rely
on comedy being a thing. And I think that's obviously
coming from like a you know, having immigrant mom, black father,
just sort of like try and get jobs that will

(04:48):
pay you like consistently. So I was like, yeah, that's
that's cool. And then I got into So then I started.
I became a political consultant and lobbyists for a number
of years. That's right, I remember that. Yeah, yeah, that
was sort of my big boy college post college career.
And then I soured on politics very quickly. I went
into it a little overly idealistic and I realized what

(05:09):
it was and then so I became, uh yeah, a
little bit more radicalized after that. And then from there
I actually did more than just comedy. Like I I think,
you know, in the early YouTube days, I was just
very much someone who had like a sketch comedy channel,
who was like getting viral hits on Funnier Die and
YouTube and things like that. And then I realized that's

(05:30):
a hard that's again not an easy job to turn
into consistent income. So I sort of turned that into
a skill. I was going to companies with basically saying
like Hi, I'm one of those people that can make
viral content, and that was such a buzzword and like
the early tens teens where it's viral viral, Yeah, yeah,
this is good. Yeah, and like I'd be like, check

(05:51):
out my links to these nonsensical comedy videos that have
plenty of views to back up my claims. And so
I started working in radio and making like content for
radio stations, and then I worked at YouTube for a second,
and then Playboy, and then Conde Nast and then Uh
and then Jack after a while he was I had
met him because my fiance worked at Cracked, so I

(06:14):
had met him a few times there and he actually
had me, um years ago audition to co host up
a podcast with Robert Evans and then at the time
it just didn't work out um, but Jack had always
remembered that audition. So then when he started thinking of
this idea, he came back to me and said, Hey,
I know you're working at Conde, but like, would you

(06:34):
want to do a podcast? And I was like, that's
the call I've been waiting for. Um, So yeah, it's
And now I think doing this daily shows like a
true intersection of like all of my past work experience
and like interests. So yeah, I couldn't be luckier. That's awesome.
So Robert Evans is who also from our network behind
the Bastards, Great great show which got really popular, which

(06:57):
was cool. Robert's awesome. I need to have Robert on
and Jack. Jack had been holding pulp fiction for Jack
for you know, three years now, and we've tried a
couple of times. When I was in l A, I
always wanted to do it in person, but now I
think we've all gotten so used to the zoom thing that, uh,
I'm not afraid to do these anymore. I used to like,
if it's not in person, then you know an you

(07:18):
want to talk about, isn't it. But it's how much
that's changed. Like I was, really we were really concerned,
especially for comedy podcasts, the energy in the room is
so important, like the timing of your responses. But I
think like everyone got like a built in internet delay
in their head or something to like yeah not or

(07:39):
you don't do things like that, so yeah, which I
just did you, I know, which is perfect illustrative. Well,
you've got a great voice, so it doesn't surprise me
that you worked in radio. Some but I'd love to
know a little bit more about what you did in politics.
It's really interesting, man. Yeah. So I started off just

(07:59):
like like an organizer, and at a certain point a
friend of mine asked if I wanted to help organize
for a campaign around renewable energy, and I was like, sure,
I think that's great. It was for a ballot proposition
in California, and it was like very aggressive at the time,
like asking for like over fifty of our fuel mix

(08:20):
to come from renewable. So it was like a long shot,
but for me, I felt like one of those things like,
but this is where we need to be. And that
campaign went well enough that um, that was my first
sort of insight into how things work. Because this campaign,
I thought was just about people of goodwill coming together
to demand the state change the energy mix. And then

(08:42):
this consulting firm reaches out to me and says, hey,
we'd like to hire you. You did a great job
on this other campaign that we were behind, and I
was like, oh huh and then yeah, and I was
like what do you mean. It's like, oh, yeah, so
we have these investors and then you realize, oh, right,
So this ballot proposition was for people who we're basically
waiting first if this were to pass into law, immediately

(09:03):
begin permitting the land to like beat everyone to the
punch for renewables to get those contracts. So I was like, oh, okay, um,
but I'm like, well, at least it's a good cause
because it's renewable, so like it's not like, you know,
totally messed up. And then from there, um, so I
accepted the job because this was you know, this was
two thousand and eight. There's just absolutely and I just

(09:24):
got out of college. I'm walking through like a desert
landscape in terms of like viable employment, and this was
like a true shot to have like some kind of professional,
white collar, middle class lifestyle in my twenties, and so
I took it in yeah, very quickly. Uh. I began
to see like the game and how consulting works, whether

(09:45):
that was you know, doing things in service of like
billionaires who had progressive agendas, but in the end of
the day, like you know, I'm like, oh, cool, we're
gonna make sure this this certain politician gets re elected.
And then you're like, oh, that's right, because they're on
a a midie that directly relates to the industry of
one of our clients, and by making sure that they

(10:05):
know that this massive donor as part of their like
sort of covert re election effort that helps keep the
heat off of their industry. If someone proposes, let's say,
an investigation into how pell grants work or something like that,
Holy shit? How? How? What? What is your cynicism level
these days with politics? Yeah? I mean, I'm I'm completely disillusioned.

(10:27):
I mean, I know, I I worked in democratic politics
enough to see that even when you're talking about things
that are they pull well, there are a few people
who are actually there to advocate for what that means
on the other side of it, like it's renewable energies
with the caveat of well, I'm gonna make all the
money off of it when it happens, or I want

(10:50):
this progressive politician re elected not because they're going to
do something for working people, but because they're going to
protect my near monopoly on this industry. Um and then,
and I became really cynical because after a while, you know,
you know, there's the dark money aspects and using these
you know, there's a whole methodology that UM dark money

(11:11):
groups used to use different kinds of nonprofit groups like
five and one, C threes and C fours and certain
ones don't have to reveal who their donor who their
donors are, and that's those are. So those are the
groups that come out with very like nebulous names like um,
you know, American Families for Progress or something, and really

(11:32):
paid by one guy, and you're out there saying, like
preaching this very vague mission statement. So it seems like that,
but you're there on behalf of some other person. And
so once you see sort of the just sort of
the the power dynamics of it and who stands to
win and lose. You know, I was going in on
very optimistic. Obama had just been elected the first black president.

(11:56):
I'm like, wow, this is progress, Like I'm really glad
to be part of this. And then I'm like, wait,
but you know, this is like when Obamacare was coming up.
We're doing a lot of research to try and talk
about like the benefits of it and how this could
be really monumental for expanding healthcare. And then pretty soon,
like you saw, things get chipped away and you see
people get seats at the table that should absolutely not
have them. And I was like oh okay, whatever, So yeah,

(12:20):
how do you approach and you know you don't have
to get too personal, but how do you approach your
your vote these days? Like when you have seen sort
of the underbelly in that and the way it works,
Like can you even I mean like excited? No? Um?
And because I think you know, especially right now being

(12:41):
black and Asian in this country, talk about a lack
of change that's takes into account what the experience is
or the experiences are of of us from any given group,
and the glacial pace um that change curs in because unfortunately,
the people who have the seats at the table, they're

(13:03):
not the things that we're talking about aren't existential threats
to them. So we're moving at a we're moving at
a level of urgency for something like It's like it's
the same with climate change. We have people like octogenarians
who are like, I don't know, I'm not going to
see the worst of it, So why would they're They're
not incentivized to move quickly or um optimistically on how

(13:25):
to change things. Um. So I mean I'm I'm really
open on the show about how I feel and I
always try and always relate my own experiences in politics
to why I believe a certain thing or why I'm
less optimistic about a given candidate. You know. Yeah, I
think for certain people, progressives, leftists, they may look at
Biden is just like you know, it's like what do

(13:46):
you do? Do you hold your nose? Do you vote
for this? And given some of the other, uh, political
fallouts that have occurred over the last hundred days, UM,
you'd you'd hope for a little bit better than what
we're seeing. Um. But I mean, I think it's just
one of those things until enough a plurality of people
are either a able to see just how we lose

(14:08):
in this like two party system, um or proposing some real,
you know, revolutionary change in terms of how we conduct
our governance in this country. I think this is what
we're left with. And you hope that the words of
activists and the news and people being a little more
open minded about what the realities are of this country
can at least help create like a very organic grassroots

(14:30):
ground swell around this. But yeah, it's um, but it's
it's hardening to see things slowly melt away over time. Yeah.
So like if you were to talk to someone who's
interested in getting into politics. Would you say, geez, don't
do it, it's assess pool. You say, just stay local,
and I would change, honestly, I would. I've I've talked

(14:52):
about this a lot, and I have a few friends
who are work at a state level, municipal level, and
federal level and pre aaucracy, and they're all like, we
need smarter people to work in bureaucracy because I think
a lot of people look at you know, it's like
the stars of politics are the elected officials, but there

(15:13):
it's like, but the crew, Like if it's a movie,
the crew it is the bureaucracy. And if the crew
is lazy and unimaginative, they're not going to execute on
a script you wrote, it's gonna come out all weird
because no one's like So I would actually encourage people
to get involved because I think, but knowing that, we
need people who are looking at things differently, very much

(15:35):
the established kind of politicians we have now, it's just
their focus is once they're in office, is just to
stay in office. So there's not a lot of risk taking,
you know what I mean, there's no risk taking at
all because their bottom linees like, well, I want to
be the most famous person in my state is making
this office. I don't care about what I'm there to
do for my constituents. And I think that seems to

(15:57):
be a real thing right now more than ever before. Absolutely,
And I think we need more people who are willing
to just go into office saying I'm here to actually
I know what it means for a single parent to
wonder how they're going to take care of their child,
or if they're going to get tax credits for that,
or if they need another job or that, and know
that those are real lived experience of most people, and

(16:18):
saying I'm there to actually relieve that stress for someone
else rather than you know, who can I glad hand
and collect donors for just to stay in for another
couple of years. Um, yeah, sure. And you know, I know,
like both sides are. I mean, I'm a liberal progressive too,
and and both sides have plenty of issues. But it's
really hard not to look at people like Marjorie Taylor

(16:41):
Green and I read a Thing of the Day where
they were talking about the fact that basically like people
like her are there there. She's brand building. She's not
interested at all in in constituents and doing anything for
them or anything for the country. Even know, it's just
building her brand as someone who can be a megaphone

(17:05):
for owning libs and and what kind of book deal
am I going to get at the end of the day.
And I think it's like the same. Yeah, it's it's
like when you see people on reality shows and you're like, whoa,
It's like, well, they're trying to get a deal after
the ships. You know, they're trying to get their influences
account going when they leave the Bachelor. Like politics now, yeah,

(17:27):
and I think it's seemed into every level where we
don't have people who are there acting in good faith
because they're interested in outcomes for their constituents. It's like,
like we say in politics, it's what they called me flippantly,
it's Hollywood for ugly people. Um, and it's the same
level of egocentricity and narcissism involved, but it's it's just

(17:48):
like even worse because like, no, you guys are actually
there to like help people, but you're you're the mudsling.
And you know, good for her she you know, she
her father gave her a whole business that she could
inherit and pretend she created her own business or whatever,
and that's par for the course for this place. Oh boy,
well that was depressing. Yeah. Well, well, first of all,

(18:20):
I want to talk about your mom real quick again.
Where's where's she from with your background? My mom's Japanese.
So she she she's from Japan. She was born in Nigata,
which is on the west coast of Japan, and she
moved here, you know, in the seventies. Um my dad,
he said, she's a film critic. Yeah. Yeah, so she
started off as a translator and and like for a

(18:42):
while she was like that translator in Japan, like Queen
come to Japan and like, my like there's like footage
of my mom like at their press conference like translating
or like Rick James, like she's like she's lived Bob Marley,
like for a while. If you came to Japan, my mom,
and like there's a few other people who like had
this intersection of knowing, like the promotional companies that were

(19:05):
bringing the acts there or the TV media outlets, and
then people who were sort of like western enough to
be able to like hang and be a cool translator.
And that was my mom for a while. Yeah, and
then someone said like, hey, you know, there's an opportunity
at this magazine, you know, for they need someone in
l A to be a correspondent um who can essentially

(19:26):
interview people for the movie industry and like but then
report back in Japanese about the American film industry. And
my mom was kind of already doing some translation stuff
and she was like, yeah, I'm gonna try that out.
And she's been with a magazine it's called road Show UM,
and it's like you know, Japan's like prim it's like
Entertainment Weekly of Japan. It's like the one film magazine.

(19:49):
And then eventually like it went out of print like
many things did and went purely digital um. And so yeah,
and then and she's also a member of the Hollywood
Form Press Association, was getting a lot of heat at
the moment um. But also like, I have an interesting
perspective into that too, because for all of the focus
on this organization, it also allows like Hollywood to turn

(20:12):
a blind eye to its own transgressions in terms of
not being a very inclusive industry. And I find it
odd to come after a group of foreign journal these
aren't this isn't an American body of journalists. It's a
group of foreigners of immigrants who have come here to
talk about the industry. And now the criticism, why aren't
there any Black American people in this thing? It's like

(20:34):
there's not even Americans. There's like only a couple and
that's because they're like like dual nationality, people are bilingual.
And why agree that the h f p A could
be more inclusive. It absolutely needs to be, and I
think it's imperative that they help, like you know, in
France or other countries that have large, you know, diasporic populations,

(20:54):
that they could say, yeah, we want to bring more
black French journalists out here. But unfortunately, the membership of
the h f p A I think is a reflection
of the print industry in the respective countries where these
people represent the industry. Um. But yeah, anyway, all that
to say, uh, she's always we've always had movies on
in my house. Uh, And she's always had a very

(21:16):
critical tone about movies, which only made me a little
more like aggressive as a kid, Like this movie sucks
and I couldn't explain why, but it's just from Osmosis.
Um he's a Yeah, he's an artist. It's a black
guy from l A. My parents met at a Michael
Jackson album release party in the eighties. My dad used

(21:37):
to be Michael Jackson's personal photographer for like six years
back when he was black. Um. This was like in
the late seventies. The last video he worked with Michael
and was beat it Um. But yeah, and so you know,
he's a just an artist. And I had always i
think because he was just a very politically minded, you know,

(21:58):
black man in America. He always raised me with a
very like, very sober analysis of what the news was
or what was happening or why things were happening. And
I remember like one of the first times as a kid,
I saw like an un housed person. I said, like,
what how come some people like don't like they have
to live like by the freeway? He said, He said,
Ronald Reagan. That was his He said, Oh, that's because

(22:21):
Ronald Reagan. And I'm like, what I'm I'm six years old,
I have not I don't know what to do with that,
but that's how he'd respond to me. And then later
on I'm like, oh wow, he was giving me the
adult answer, but I'm like, thanks for that. Distilled progressive
answer dead. That's really cool man. And it's funny now
that like I know some of this background, so much

(22:43):
of what I hear from you on the show makes sense,
Like it's it made sense anyway because I knew you
were a smart guy who who knew a lot about
politics and knew and was funny. So like I always
knew that, I always came through as Miles, But I
guess I just this feels like it's just d n A.

(23:03):
Oh yeah, I mean even further back, Like you know,
my mom's dad was German, was a professor of German
philosophy in Japan, and he was like one of the
foremost experts of like Grota's philosophy, and he during World
War Two, the Japanese government was like relying on not him,
but a few other Japanese people who understood German culture

(23:26):
to understand the Nazis UM because of the axis, you know,
the relationship there of like you know, what do Germans
mean if they're saying this, because you know, when the
Japanese people speaks like they're the intent of language is
a little bit different and culturally different, UM, but similar
in many ways to UM. So yeah, like everyone's kind

(23:47):
of been out there kinda Yeah, I've been having I've
been lucky enough to have out their vibes running through
my veins. That's a cool, man. I'm always a little
I mean, I'm not slackly my family everything, but I'm
always a little jealous when I hear about these people
that have these really interesting childhoods. And my parents were
both teachers and it's very admirable. They were public school

(24:09):
teachers and stuff. So I'm not knocking it, but it's
not exciting as translating for Bob Marley or hanging out. Yeah,
I mean I wish to beat a record release part right, Yeah,
it's a different bay. I wasn't there, so you know,
but I will say Iggy Pop did almost kill my dad,
so there's that. Oh is there a story there that
you can tell. Yeah, they were roommates and he was dude,

(24:30):
this gym as you know, as he's known. Uh, was
just so my dad's friend. He was like the connective
tissue between him and Iggy Pop. And my dad had
like this room available in this apartment that he had
and he said, Hey, this guy Jim, he's like you
know him, blah blah, blahs like he just needs a
place to stay for like a month and he's gonna
move out or whatever. And he's not into wearing shirts,

(24:52):
and he's like he might be, you know, cooking heroin
on your stove. I don't know, but my dad he
essentially he was getting ready you to do a photo
shoot and you had to like you know, he was
like asleep early and then I guess Jim is in
the house and he was like trying to cook something
like turn the stove on, and the pilot light didn't

(25:12):
click on, and so he just left the gas running
in the house. And then my dad like woke up
in the middle of the night to pee or something,
and he just like was like it smells like gas
in here and runs down and realizes like the stoves on.
He's like turning it off, and then you know, Jim's like, hey,
what's going on. He's like, dude, he left the stove on.
He's like what, And he's like trying to in his

(25:34):
stupor trying to get up and light a cigarette, but
like fly across the room. He's like no, Um, So
you know, I may have been I could have been
not even here where fateful light strike blown up. Do
you have kids now? No, no, no, not yet. I

(25:55):
think that's that that will be on the horizon, you know.
I feel like we got a little bit of living
to do. Yeah, but um yeah, that's that's that's all
on the horizon. You got. We're getting married in a
little bit, so that's great stuff. One. Yeah, congratulation, thanks.
I see that sweet Rickenbucker bass in the background. Yeah.
Do you play, I guess yeah, yeah, yeah. I grew

(26:15):
up playing trumpet actually because I was named after Miles Davis,
a terrible self fulfilling prophecy, and I always liked music,
and I grew up playing trumpet. But for a while
trumpet wasn't like cool. And then like after the SKA
era died out, so you know, I didn't really have
much to play anymore, Like I was. I played in

(26:35):
a lot of jazz ensembles and marching bands as a kid,
and orchestras, and then guitar hero came out and I
got so good at guitar hero I was like, I
should probably try a stringed instrument, right, And then I
and just because my dad had a loose bass somewhere
like in our garage and I just like I picked
that up and I couldn't. I really loved playing bass
and that turned into like making beats and things like that.

(26:56):
So he played with a with a band or anything
right now. Yeah, it was in a band for a
little bit actually for a few years, um up until
like a couple of years ago, and then yeah, just
kind of it was sort of a pobby where everyone
kind of had a job and then yeah, it kind
of sort of it ran its course at that time.
But now I've kind of come back to just making
music on my computer because I music is like such

(27:19):
a huge part of my life and I don't probably
I don't talk about that as much on podcast, but
it's been something I've done since I was a child,
and I've always made music on my computer, not to
like release out there. It's like someone who like journals
or something. I just do that with like making like
music loops and things. Yeah that's awesome, man, you listening
to these days? He got some good res Oh man,

(27:40):
I could go. I mean I love River tiber Um.
River Tiber is a great Canadian producer artist. Um. I
don't know if you've heard that group bad Bad, not good.
Um No, I'm so like, so like bad bad not
good is like this Canadian jazz funk soul like new
jazz kind of group um, and they're so funky and

(28:01):
like they're so good on their instruments and like they
have like more minimal compositions, but they're so solid. And
River Tiber collaborates with them and he has his own
solo stuff that's really good. And then the other band
I'll always tell people about is Hiatus Coyote. Um. They're
one of my favorite bands from Australia. And you know,
there's plenty of like artists that I like that are solo,

(28:21):
but I like to recommend like bands that really make
me as a musician like envious because I'm like, oh, yeah, man,
they're so good and like they're so solid on their
instruments and like they're so good at like their compositions. UM.
And yeah, Hiatus Coyote is just one of those bands
that is very like avant garde but funky and still

(28:42):
manages to be like familiar at the same time. So yeah,
that's amazing. So I just wrote all those down. I'll
check those out. That's the thing that I performing live.
Obviously I've missed a lot, but just going to UH.
I finally went to a baseball game last night, so
I got a sporting event under my belt. But seeing music,
I think. My my friend and I went UH and

(29:02):
saw Bonnie Prince Billy right before the shutdown, and then
the last show I saw in Atlanta, UH, my wife
and I went to Michael Kiwanuka a couple of weeks
before it shut down, and um, it's just it's been
such a hole in my life and I cannot wait
to get back and see some bands again. I know.

(29:23):
I think I'm just gonna be sobbing, like just overcome,
like if especially if it's a band I want to
see too, because I'll go to any show at this
point because I just do want to see that, right,
But if there's like time to like if I saw like,
you know, Portishead right now, I think they'd have to
take me down like in an ambulance. I'd be like.
I've had some emotions lately, with some experiences out of

(29:46):
nowhere that I like. My wife and I went to
dinner for the first time the other night and sat
outside at this place and uh, I was I started
sucking crying, man, and I was like what is going on?
And and I'm an emotional guy anyway, but I didn't
anticipate that coming and it just started happening, and I
was like, all right, feel the feeling. Yeah exactly. Uh,
you know, I've spent forty nine years doing stuff like

(30:08):
this and one year off and it was a big deal. Yeah, no, seriously,
And it really kind of brings things back into focus
those moments, because yeah, for the first time I went
out to eat two and you know, over a year,
and I couldn't believe it. It felt surreal. But then
you're sort of like you kind of reflect on the
year and like people that lost and just all the

(30:30):
pain and things, and yeah, I was sort of in
the same moment. I just I cheered and it took
me like a good eight seconds before I sipped my
drink because I was just like, because you had that lump, yeah,
and I was like, oh wow, yeah, okay, but yeah,
a nice experience on the left. That's good man. Well,
I can't wait to get back out to l A again.
And uh, yeah, come see you guys, it'd be a

(30:50):
lot of fun. So you picked mall rats after all
this high falutin talk about the politics and the film
critic mom and artist's father got to come at me
with fucking mall rats. I was surprised by her pick
a little bit, um, and I guess I'll just go
ahead and kick it off by saying that I was

(31:10):
a very, very big Kevin Smith fan. Early on. I
remember seeing Clerks in college at the theater, and um,
it was it was unlike anything I had seen before,
and it really stuck a struck a chord with me
because it was clearly super low budge made by somebody

(31:31):
like me. Uh, somebody actually even looked like me. And uh,
I just I sort of fell in love with the
aesthetic and his his world building of these sort of
weirdos that were clearly just his friends, clearly just writing
these movies too, sort of in a Richard Link ladder
way to kind of like there are two guys who

(31:52):
always wrote for themselves and not for characters. It's like
every character is just saying Kevin Smith stuff. Yeah, there's
no way to discern who's saying what because they all
this dense dialogue you've ever heard. Uh. And then my
rats came along and it was basically like, all right,
we're gonna give you a lot more money, and he
was basically like, I'm going to make the same exact
kind of movie, and I kind of respected that at

(32:15):
the time, I think, yeah, and he got destroyed for it.
Everyone was like, oh boy, They're like, this is your
King the Sun Dance Winner with Clerks just made a
nonsense film about people at a mall with the weirdest humor,
like when I think he's Siskel or Ebert like just
completely killing it. Yeah, And then I mean everyone did that.

(32:37):
I read the Ebert review today and it was he
was not too kind. What's your deal with Kevin Smith
and your history here? And then you were obviously younger. Yeah,
but I think I I was always a kid who
was punching above their weight with what they read or
watched or listened to, because you know, like any kid
over ten, I was like just such a snob and

(32:59):
defining my life based on what I wasn't into. So
if everyone is into that, I wasn't into that because
I'm into this. I'm like, oh, you're not reading the
Illuminatis trilogy, and I'm like, I am, but yeah, I
don't know what I'm reading, but I'm not going to
read this other thing. Um, and so Clerks was like
one of those things where like an older family friend
showed it to me, and because I thought they were

(33:21):
so cool by Osmosis, I was like, Okay, Clerks is cool.
And then like as I got like around thirteen, Clerks
made a little more sense, and then I was like okay,
Like I'm kind of fully into the view Askew and
view aske universe as I used to call it back
in the day. And I like loved the idea of

(33:44):
him being so down for Jersey because me being from
the San Fernando Valley, I've always felt an affinity like,
you know, New Yorkers look at Jersey like it's like
New Jersey, you know, at the bridge and tunnel people
get out of here type thing, much in the same
way like people in l A, Like there's a snobbery
of looking down at the San Fernando Valley. Um, and

(34:05):
I'm always like, no, like, okay, I'm with you. I
like this the Jersey, you know, the Jersey Trilogy or
whatever he was building at the time. And and then
Mall Rats I think really resonated because mall culture was
just so big sure for me in the San Fernando
Valley too. It's like malls or where where it was.
And I was at malls malls constantly, and so this

(34:28):
idea of like the Kevin Smith treatment of like losers
at a mall. At the time, I was like, this
is perfect, this is exactly who I am, and like
they're using you know, vocabulary that like I will pair
it incorrectly constantly after this, And I think that was
the appeal of a Kevin Smith film was like for
especially someone like my age, it was just like moment

(34:49):
to feel like you're just punching above your weight intellectually
and like you kind of get like what he's trying
to say. So it app that appealed to sort of
like the you know, want to be adult kid in
me at the time. Yeah, And I lived in New
Jersey post college um in nineteen I moved to New
Jersey for like four years because my college roommate had

(35:13):
his family lived there and he was just sort of
his stepdad was a well to do out in the
sort of rich suburbs of New Jersey business guy. And
they got transferred to Australia for a few years. Didn't
want to give up their house, so they talked to
him and said, Hey, would you like to come live
in our house and take care of it for a while,
live rent free, keep up the bills and all that stuff.

(35:33):
And he said sure, And I had just graduated. I
was like, oh, I'll go with you because I got
nothing else to do and I wanted to hang out
in New York for the first time in my life
a lot. And so I moved to New Jersey weirdly
out of college and these two twenty four year old
or whatever, we're living in this you know, three thousand
square foot probably even bigger kind of executive not McMansion.

(35:57):
It was just a nice big house out in the country.
And everyone like, people didn't move to this town. This
is in central New Jersey, in Bernardsville, and no one
moved there, Like after college, you don't move to Bernardsville,
New Jersey. And so we were a bit of a
like the two weirdos. Like I got a job waiting tables,

(36:17):
he got a job bartending, and everyone was like, who
was this English guy and this Southern kid who like
moved Oh right, yeah. It was a really weird sort
of duo. And um, I really both of us really
kind of fell in love with New Jersey and the
people and just sort of the culture and the the
weirdos there and so these movies mall rats and clerks

(36:38):
and the I guess what was the third one was, yeah,
Chasing Amy, which is probably the best of the three actually,
if you're talking about pure like good Movin's, um, we
knew these people and we we knew these guys and
it was he he just he lived that world because
that was his world, and he had no problem really

(36:58):
accurately like throwing on a movie screen. I always really
like that about those early films of his, Yeah, exactly,
And there was just the the the way he would
be able to like synthesize these sort of worldviews into
like very cutting just one liners and things were like
uh something that like I was sort of awe struck
by because I think it just you know, I think,

(37:21):
like a lot of kids who grew up around the industry,
like at a certain point you always dream of like
making a movie, um or writing a film and things
like that. And Kevin Smith's like writing sort of helped
me think of like, oh, like you can do things
like this. Not that I felt like he was making
it easy, but at least inspired me to think, like,

(37:41):
you know, this guy is just sort of quite literally
describing or doing a sensational version of his own personal
history or his experiences. And there was something too that
that like was always kind of catching me. But then
that's total and they sorted started getting a little bit
less good over time. So I like to focus on, like,
you know, the good day. Yeah, I mean fair enough,

(38:01):
but they you know there is something there because I
remember feeling the same way, like I grew up in
a situation where I didn't know that you could make
movies as a career. Like I didn't. I didn't have
parents in the industry or on the fringes of the industry,
and I just it was I was in suburban Atlanta,
and I just I didn't know that you could do that.
I thought other people made movies and is that even
a job? And Kevin Smith, I remember just feeling sort

(38:24):
of inspired early on. I was like, wait a minute,
you can actually scrape together fit thirty grand or whatever
he's been on clerks and and make a career out
of it. And he was, And it's it's more commonplace now.
But in nineteen when did Clerks come out, was that
like or something that just wasn't really happening much. So

(38:46):
it was a big deal to get that Mirrormax deal.
And for this regular guy who's like just basically typing
out his his musings about Star Wars and the mall
and girls, like, it's like, this is what all of
our friends just sit around talk about it, and he
did it and it's making money at it because I
think the appeal to was I remember, because everyone's why
is clerks in black and white? And it's like, it's

(39:08):
because he made it himself, you know, the budget to
do it like that, and I was sort of like
the mystery, the mysterious quality of like wait till the
idiot asks why this isn't black and white and you
get to slam them with your Kevin Smooth No, it's
right now. Yeah, I mean clerks look cool, like the
aesthetic it looked homemade, and it was homemade. Um mal

(39:29):
rats was his sort of fast times at Ridgemont High.
I think, uh yeah, sort of unabashedly. You know, he's
never been shy about his influences, which is always I've
kind of been admired. I think, yeah, and it's just
like it's it's It's funny when I like, I this
was like one of those tapes I would watch over
and over and over again. And it's funny how it's

(39:50):
probably been ten years since I saw it last, because
I just watched it again just to kind of refresh myself.
And it's funny how many lines of dialogue I was
still able to like reflexively just say back, like under
my yeah, and I was like, oh god, it's just
it's just in there. Well, also like realizing like this
is a very interesting view of like what the comic
book nerd guy trope is could be or what how

(40:15):
I look at that with my twenty first century view
of this too. Um. But there's also just like these
like interesting moments too in the opening credits, because you
know a huge comic book fan, and obviously Jason Lee
is in it, and you did have Stanley, but like
the they did like sort of comic book treatments of
like every person in the film, and I like how
they sort of like forced foreshadowed Ben Affleck as Batman,

(40:39):
except his was called butt Man, and I was like, this,
maybe Kevin had an idea of where Ben was going
with this that was he related to Stanley at all. Yeah,
Jason Lee is Stanley's son? What? Yeah? Is that true?
I believe? So I'm gonna just double check that for you.
But um, I'm not doubting you. I had just never

(41:02):
he's I thought, I think he has some maybe not.
Let me just make sure is he related at all?
We should leave all this stuff in no relation. Thank god?
Oh really? Oh no? Oh? Well, And see that's funny
because that was I think that was like a rumor
that people said in the pre internet era of just

(41:23):
watching a movie and the last names matched and you're like, yeah,
that's that's his kid. Believe Yeah, I did, I did
too until just now. Well, he was a big comic
book guy though. And it's funny that that. Like Stanley's
part in this movie, you know, he has a great
scene is the wise sage that Kevin Smith immediately like.

(41:44):
It's kind of the one sweet moment in the movie
where he's talking about true love and then afterward Kevin
Smith sort of just yankster rug out from under him
because it turns out it was a set up for
by Jeremy London just to get him think a weird grift.
You're like, hey, man, my buddy's not doing too well,
you might pumping up for a couple of bucks or

(42:05):
something exactly. Um, but this was It's hard to remember
a day where Stanley wasn't a part of the m
c U and making all these great cameos in these movies,
Like because watching it this afternoon and I was like, oh, yeah, Stanley.
Of course, you know he's in every Marvel movie now
and we all love Uncle stan But like back then,
the even I think, felt the need to explain a

(42:26):
little bit in the movie who Stanley even was because
among comic books people, of course they knew who he was,
but the public at large wouldn't know who this old
guy was with the dark And it's funny because I
didn't really either, and for being someone I was, I
was really into comic books too, but I was into
the Jim Lee version of X Men, so and for

(42:48):
the longest time I thought Jim Lee and Stanley were brothers,
because you don't think I had. I had this very
childish way of discerning if people were related where you're
like the last name. I remember as a kid asking
people if they were related to so ands because they're
like even random people I knew that weren't even famous,

(43:09):
and they're like, no, I don't know that person. I'm like, ah,
weird you related to Spalding Gray right exactly. I wish
I was or not, but no, Kobe Bryant is my cousin.
So at that end, see, I'm glad to know, I'm
honored to be here with I'm gonna give you shit
about that for the rest of your life. Every time
I see you, I'm gonna like find someone with the
last last name, same one. It's like this you um

(43:31):
but yeah, like I I didn't know until like another
friend who was really in the comics was also like no,
like that's like he invented everything. And I was like,
oh yeah, and I was like I didn't realize that.
And then it really like it kind of sent me
back into like my nerd like learning of like Okay, well,
I cannot embarrass myself by asking a question like that.

(43:53):
I will now ingest some more standley material and shame
some other people. But that's how you learned. I mean,
you don't know ship until um friend tells you about it.
The unactually was the process for learning and the and
then for many people, and then it turned into a
toxic habit decades later. I mean, let's talk about Jason

(44:20):
Lee for a minute. He's an actor that's like I
don't think anyone at whatever accused Jason Lee of being
some great actor, but there was something about him. He
had this charm that like, I was a big fan
of my name is earl Uh that show he had.
I really really loved that show. And he's kind of
gone away a little bit now, but like he was

(44:42):
just this cool guy. He was a skater and like
he was sponsored and like had a like a career
as a skater and then started being in these movies
and I don't know, man, there was just something about
him that was super likable. I saw him at a
couple of shows when I lived in l A that
like like really cool bands that I like, Like I
saw had a Grand Eddie show and he stood right
next to me as I'm ade a flaming lip show.

(45:03):
I was like, yeah, man, Jason Lee, Like he's fucking
cool dude, and he's just he didn't even try to act.
He just gets on screen and as Jason Lee. Yeah,
he's I think that's why I like, you know, it's
funny because him and Ethan Suppley are both together in
this and then later on in My Name is Earl,
Like I wonder if that. I'm sure maybe they built
a relationship there, but yeah, he yeah, he was sort

(45:25):
of effortlessly he helped sort of embody this like personality
type or energy of like this mid nineties person that
I thought it was really cool doesn't give a ship.
He sucks, but he's also like has a razor sharp
wit and like so that helps offset his shittiness um

(45:46):
in a way that felt like earned, because he was
smart enough to throw, you know, insults back, like saying
I can't explain myself monosylibically enough for you to understand
and things like that. Yeah that's good Burnham Jason, But yeah,
he's a smart guy. You could tell. And this character
Brodie was smart, but it's like it's that character that's

(46:08):
that's smart, but it's kind of just tossing it away,
like he's using his intelligence to explain the intricates he's
of them all. Yeah, uh, to comic effect. But like
you get the feeling that if Brodie got a ship together,
he could kind of do whatever he wanted. He's no dummy,
Yeah exactly, because even like there's something about even his
like you know, obscene comic book collection because he like

(46:31):
lives in like a cave that's about to collapse on
him of old comics. He just has this like yeah
that he he he just helped embody that snark of
the nineties that I think for me as a young kid,
like that's the kind of adult I want to be,
which wasn't a great example, but at the time I
did the the I guess relatively intelligent version of that.

(46:53):
But he's there's I think it's also his like skater
cred to you know, because he legitimately wasn't he in
like one of the early police Academy things like just
as like a skating extra. Oh, I don't know, that
wouldn't surprise me. I think he's like in anyway. But
like he's even because I remember just skate culture is
also huge too, like in southern California. So like him

(47:14):
and then hearing like you know he's like was like
a solid skater also just helped you. Like this guy's
he's the real thing. Yeah, totally triple threat. Uh. And
you know then you have Jeremy London, who, you know,
God bless him. Jeremy London is not a fine actor.

(47:35):
And that's the thing I kind of always admired about
Kevin Smith though, is that he was clearly interested in
putting people he liked and friends of his in these movies,
at least early on, maybe at the expensive you know,
auditioning a bunch of people like you never felt like
early on he cared a lot about the real filmmaking
process except for the writing and and probably you know,

(47:56):
shooting it with his friends. He's never fancy as a director,
and and like I said, probably did an audition to
a thousand people. He's like, well, let's just use these people.
Kids are fine. Yeah, He's like honestly, like, get Walt
Flannagan and Scott Moser like my friends to just be
in the film. And then you're like, well, now you're
part of the established film universe, so yeah, I guess

(48:18):
are gonna keep bringing you back. And that kind of
became the because I was a full on Kevin Smith fanboy,
like like I would watch every frame of like, oh
that's Scott Moser. Oh he's this guy, and he's the
snowball guy from Clerks and all this other stuff, and
it was always like very Yeah, there was like a

(48:39):
loyalty about it too that I felt like, yeah, I
wonder if I just got checks to make films. I'm like, look,
maybe you're a terrible actor, but I'm you're You're the
guys that I like working with, so let's kind of
keep this going. I mean, even like with Jason Muse,
you know, like he's stuck by Jason Muse for a
really long time and has had like all kinds of
ups and downs and actor either, but he when he's on,

(49:02):
he's so on, Because there's moments even in Mall Rats
you're like, dude, don't like it's almost like you're trying
to pre mouth the words of the persons, like don't
I'm also like Kevin, like, why don't you direct that?
A little bit? Um? But yeah, but there's just like this,
I think there was just this really authentic quality about it.
I think for a while that just resonated in the

(49:23):
nineties so much more than like the polish that we
were used to. Well, yeah, and he did something like
not many directors had ever done or have even done since,
which was created a cult of fandom around. I mean,
there's like the Tarantinos and stuff, that sort of have
a little bit of that. But Kevin Smith like really
built this world, like you said, the view askew world,

(49:45):
and he created this fandom around a production team and
directing that like no one did stuff like that, Like
he really And I don't think he was like, let
me build my personal brand either. I think I think
it was a little more pure than that, especially early on,
and I think later he probably realized, like, wait a minute,

(50:05):
I can and not in a gross way. I can
still make money because I can go around and speak
and I can just talk about my relationship with mus
and and I have I have built this sort of
cult of of fandom that and exploited such a bad word,
but I mean it in the in the right way
to energize it. Yeah, energized, I think because you know
in a way like now that you're saying like that,

(50:27):
it's almost like he's just sort of mirroring what he
experienced as a comic book fan, you know of like
because I again, I was his website, like I had
content most people didn't, you know, there would be for
a production company. There were like little clips back when
you would like it would take forty minutes to download
like a twenty meca byte quote time file or like

(50:50):
what's a real video clip on there and gave people
what they wanted. Yeah, and then he even had like
a quiz section to like so you could actually test
your fandom of like your knowledge of the view ask universe,
like all that kind of stuff. And that got me hooked,
like when I was younger, because I wanted to like
to the point where I had done the quiz so
many times I knew all the what, all the questions

(51:12):
were already, and it for me created like this like
sort of validation or like measure of my devotion to
like these films for whatever it was. And yeah, I
mean oddly enough, like I met him three years ago
at Comic con Um. Yeah, well just like and it
was just off of super off chance, like he was

(51:33):
hosting like the IMDb yacht when they were doing that thing,
and he was doing some stuff there, but we were
staying in the same hotel and once we got through
like the section we had to show your card to
get to like the guest elevators. Like I had my
back turned and he just walked up and I was like, oh,
like I see this big hockey jersey wearing pulling up
on and I saw him and he looked at me,
and I was like, I just kind of gave him

(51:54):
a head nod and I was like, dude, snoots to
the fucking boots, bro. And he's like yeah, he's like oh,
and I was like I was. I felt so, I'm
so glad I took a big fanboy cringe swing like
that and it connected and he just sort of reciprocated
and I was like, Damn, that kind of went down

(52:14):
exactly how I hoped it would. Um. But yeah, I
think it's like I think there was a lot of
influence just from his own fandom as a comic book
guy that I think he really did a good job
of finding ways to sort of like see himself as
like not that he's like Stanley, but he's like, well,
this is the kind of stuff I was into. Maybe
that's my responsibility to offer the people that like my stuff. Yeah.

(52:37):
I mean he he created, uh, something much bigger than
a film director, you know, uh in a in a
resume of movies that he's made, which is super smart.
But again, I don't think he ever had this like
cunning business angle to it early on. I think it
was pure and and that kind of loyalty that he
has especially to Muse. Yeah, it really speaks to me

(53:00):
because that's just a loyalty is a really big deal
in my life as as a Pisces. Not to get
too fruity, but all my all my homies are Pisces
for good reason. Ye March, I got like two friends
who were born on the exact I'm both on the
same day year, March twelve. Cool, are you Pisces too? No,
I'm a virgo. Okay, I'm okay, all right. Ben Affleck

(53:25):
is great in this movie and early on in his career.
I was like this guy because, especially because dayson confused
to I was like, he plays an asshole better than
almost anyone I've ever seen. He was so good at it, Yeah,
the best. Like I hated him, like I hated I
hated Ben Affleck for a long time because of this,

(53:49):
And I was like, when I watched Goodwill Hunting, I'm like, no, dude,
that asshole from Mars done it. This guy because he sucks.
I mean, he made a smart move by kind of
getting away from that, but he was so good at
it in this Shannon, this character, God, I just fucking
hated his guts and even watching it today, I wanted
to jump through the screen and nothing redeeming, like you know,

(54:10):
Kevin Smith wrote him as like the app. That's why
it's kind of interesting too, because it's from Kevin Smith's perspective. Obviously,
Brody is him and tss him and how he sees
him in relation to like the sort of accepted form
of like you know, a mainstream masculinity, which is guys
who don't read comic books. They address it. They work

(54:30):
at Fashionable Male and they're into anal sex or whatever
like proclivity, but it's this this. So it was there
were moments like that too where it was more than
me just being like I hate Shannon. I was like, oh, right,
this is Kevin Smith like writing his view on like
like the world he was in at the time. And
then I was like, yeah, man, like we have so

(54:51):
many Shannon's around us like that that are just so
that would just be our tor mentors or for a
while you think like, oh that's what I ought to
be to be like successful or be attractive or whatever,
and yeah, it's like they turned that on its head
and be like this guy sucks. Yeah, and I bet
you anything that Kevin Smith today is still that guy,

(55:13):
and he's still in the industry, especially sees those douchebags
and and just has nothing but loathing for those For
those guys, I don't think you can like wear a
hockey jersey into a serious pitch meeting and say that
you like you actually respect what these people get like
to think about you. You're like he he just I

(55:34):
think he just like I'm I'm just doing my thing.
I don't care what this other stuff is. It's it's
all artificial. I mean, he's always been his own servant
to his own self, and that's I may not love
like a lot of the movies that he made after this,
but I don't know, man, there's this weird admiration that
I've always had for him just sticking to his guns

(55:58):
and doing what made him happy and give ing the
finger to critics and just being like, listen, this is
who I am. I never claimed to be the best
filmmaker in the world. Like I remember one of his
quotes when he made Oh it may have been Jay
and Silent Bob strike Back and the budget. He was
laughing about how much money he got to make it.

(56:19):
He said to make a two hour inside joke with
my friends. And there was something I always kind of
admired about that was like, you know what, Kevin Smith
is just being Kevin Smith, and like he's he's a
maverick and like not in a Robert Altman way, but
in a Kevin Smith way. Right. Yeah, it's just a
it's an it's there. There's just this rebellious quality to
it that It's what's funny because at a certain point,

(56:43):
like I just got really disheartened by that, like his
output and just kind of I was just like, yeah,
the thrill is a little bit gone after the trilogy,
um and yeah, but it's it's like one of those
moments where I just completely uh yeah for whatever reason.
It was like it's like Star Wars where it's like

(57:04):
I only like to early trilogy stuff, right, not into
the other stuff. But to that point, it's like it's
that he wasn't really making stuff like I'm never going back,
and like these are the best movies anyone has ever made.
These are like really great contributions from this creator in
this moment in time. And he had a very specific
philosophy which was yeah, like really much to say like

(57:25):
I'm gonna make a you know, million dollar inside joke. Um,
there's something about that that kind of feels, you know,
he's missing. Yeah, and you can't, like, if you're really
having an honest conversation about film history, you gotta throw
Kevin Smith in that conversation at a certain point to
represent what he represents. What he represented, especially at the time,

(57:49):
which was really helping to break in the cinema open
in a big way, uh, to make these super talking
movies that weren't like what he alan talky, because those
were always a little high salutin and intelligent and talking
about you know, art and philosophy and stuff. And he
was like, I'm gonna do that, but I'm gonna talk
about Star Wars and and stink palm jokes, right, which

(58:13):
is still a funny part of that movie. I think
even then too, like you have to credit him on
some level for making comic books cool because I didn't.
I didn't really care about Superman until I heard Kevin
Smith was possibly going to be writing a Superman film
and there yeah, and I was like, whoa what And

(58:34):
then that's when I was kind of like this is interest,
Like it almost are like, oh, maybe his end game
is really to get into the comics that he loves,
because he's really those seemed to be offering him those opportunities,
and when that stuff fell through, I was like, ah,
this kind of sucks. But I think that also for
him at the time, because he did have cred um
within the industry for him to be focusing on like

(58:56):
a comic book film. I think made a sort of
this is like in nineties six. I remember like when
he was talking about these like Superman films that on
some level, I feel like this, we have to tip
our hat to that because you start of mainstream that
um and really always made comics like like sort of
ever president sort of theme throughout his his work. Yeah,

(59:19):
I mean those that the stories around that Nick Cage
Superman development our legendary and you know they're part of
Hollywood lore at this point, so many great stories. And
then you know, the since the documentary stuff has come
out with some of the behind the scenes stuff with
the screen test and the weird suits, and then Kevin
Smith went on all I was speaking tours uh as

(59:42):
a really engaging you know, you know, he's a guy
that like he's a bit of a blowhard in a
certain way, but he can also spend a good yarn
and if like good for him, if someone will pay
twenty five dollars to go sitting in auditorium and listen
to Kevin Smith tells stories for twoever, Yeah, it's a
little bit much. Yeah, that's why it's kind of funny,

(01:00:02):
because he is a bit of he's a sort of
a double edged sword, because there's there are things about
him I just like bother me that I just not
fully like. I think I used to be like whatever
he does, I love no questions asked, and then over time,
like I think I had to kind of like, uh no,
Like also the way he kind of like sort of
masturbatory like ways will speak about his work at times,

(01:00:25):
like sort of felt like not the Kevin I thought
I knew. But yeah, I think it's like anyone, there's
always a sort of a balance to them. Yeah. I
think the only thing that annoyed me more later was
when he started smoking weed and he acted like he
was the first guy who ever smoked. Yeah, and then
and then it got bad, like I did you ever
see that like web series he did about like the Dispenser,

(01:00:49):
Oh no, it's like one of those eightest things he did.
It is I can't even I don't even know where
I saw it, but he made this like attempt at
a workplace comedy about people who worked at a weed
dispensary and really on some level on TV or was
it like a web show? It was a web show
type thing. Yeah, let me just interesting. I'm looking at

(01:01:12):
that up right now. Spoilers. No, that's not it. Oh Hollyweed. Yes,
so that was a few years ago. No, good, it is.
That's when I like those. It's it's it's projects like
that that make me question. I'm like, was he bad
this whole time? And then like he just kind of
hit it, like he just kind of broken clock thing

(01:01:35):
like he in the moment, he was right on these
couple of things. Because there's certainly other ones I look
at I'm like, oh boy, but Hollyweed is truly like
it's like the worst version of him because it's like
it's just super wordy dialogue, but it's with like performers
who can't even do it any service, so it just

(01:01:55):
feels like if you even try, And like I was
high watching, I was like, no, a panic attack from
all this top, like, please, oh no, that's ultimate test.
What what are your some of your favorite Mallrats moments?
Oh my god, I mean I love the when they
talk about their plan to bring down the stage. Um

(01:02:15):
where man, Yeah, those are some about him. He cras
me up. Uh, I love that. I love um god,
the the stink palm scene. I really loved it. So
dumb and over the top, so dumb and again me
being you know, twelve at the time being like, yeah,

(01:02:38):
that's a that's the thing you can do in real life.
That's what's that's what's sort of tough about Kevin Smith film.
Their adults wool watch and be like, oh, this is
great comedy. On the other side of that are young
kids who are like this is a blueprint for life,
Like I will dig in my ass and shake someone's
hand because I don't like them. I can never bring
myself to do it because it's just like the thought

(01:02:59):
of it and then it's on your hand too. Yeah,
but that did kick off a long run of me
eating chocolate covered pretzels. Really yeah, it's like so weird,
Like I took on these things that Brody did as
like parts of who I was as a person. Like
I only ate chocolate covered pretzels for a while, Like
if seven eleven coming out, I got a bag of

(01:03:21):
flips or whatever at the time, and like trying to
drink out of the smallest paper cup, like it was
a kind of thing to do. Um. So in a way,
like I'm kind of mad at Kevin Smith because he
kind of ruined my brain. Um, but yeah, like I
love that moment um at the time. Like I wasn't
smoking weed because I was young, but I was like, oh,
this is this is interesting, Like the power of weed

(01:03:43):
as like some magic tool that's only jay and silent
and deployed for their own needs. Um, those are really
awesome too. Um. There was a lot more slapstick in
it than I remembered when I watched it today. Yeah. Uh,
kind of really silly stuff that I think was his.
You know, I think he was kind of throwing the
whole kitchen sink in there. He was like, I'll do
some three stooges shit. Yeah, Like the scene with him

(01:04:06):
crashing through the the dressing room door was very silly slapstick.
And the scene where he's he's you know, he's going
after La Fleur with a suck full of quarters and
the kid rolls his little skate out there. It's just
really silly kind of fun stuff that you know. I
think Jay and Silent Bob, especially as characters, there was

(01:04:28):
just something about him that you liked and it was
fun seeing them outside of the clerk's world. Yeah, And
I think this is the film that really made them. Yeah,
as much as like Jason Lee and Shannon Doherty and
like Claire for Lonnie, like these big actors are in them.
This was the reason why I really watched the film
was for Jay and Silent Bob Um. And I would
so many lines, like when they're talking to Ethan Supply,

(01:04:52):
the whole Ethan Supply magic. I arc. He's like one
of my favorite things too, Like I just love his
reactions to things like when he yells at the kids
and ruining the easter was like there is no easter
bunny over there, that's just a guy in a suit,
or when they beat up the easter bunny too for Brody.
This is for Brody. Kids jump in. It is such

(01:05:15):
a mess. Um, But they were. And I think but
the reason I will say this with the Ethan subbly thing,
I remember as a kid, I could not for the
life of me ever get one of those magic I
had things to work, just didn't. I didn't understand. What
I did do was just don't focus your eyes when
your ten. I don't know what that means. Sure that
close my eyes. I don't. I don't have like the

(01:05:36):
sort of coordination to be able to sort of understand it.
And I remember getting so mad because kids would see it,
and I was like, so I also just subly I loved.
I was like, I get it, man, it's bullshit. Is
it a schooner or a sailboat? Who have you still
never seen a magic And I think successfully, I'm not

(01:05:56):
even try and it's still the It's like one of
those weird secret failures that like, you know, I'm sure,
like I'll have a grandkid like, yeah, Grandpa, look at this.
What is that a magic eye book from me? Luckily
that that stuff sort of went away. It had its moment,
and I think it's like the mid nineties was sort
of at its peak. Yeah, but that was like peak

(01:06:17):
peak mall stuff too, like, so I just love those
things that were really sort of implanted there um And
I just like, again the things I learned to say,
like from this like, I hope your pants get caught
in a blood bath ensues. I didn't know how to
use the word ensue properly until that line where Brodie

(01:06:38):
is watching this kid tug at an adult's leg while
sitting on an escalator and he's just so he's screaming
at a kid. I hope your pants get caught in
blood bath ensues. Yeah. Yeah, he's always mistreating children. Kevin
Smith movies absolutely funny. It still he became a dad, right,
and then mistreated them by being like, okay, your name
is Harley Quinn right, Oh that's right. That is his

(01:07:02):
daughter's name. Right, that's pretty funny. I do have a
lot of respect for his his devotion to his family.
I think he seems like a good dad. And yeah,
it's always had had his kids in his film. Was
like his wife wasn't even in Jane Silent Bobs right back,
that's right. I remember that was like again, being such
a fan, was like, whoa, she's not even a performer
and she's in it like that? Well, he was like

(01:07:24):
none of my friends ever were either, so why not? Yeah? Absolutely?
Now is he still putting some of those guys in
these movies? I haven't kept up lately. I feel like
I saw Brian O'Halloran and something recently really and I
don't know if it was him. I don't know. I
mean again, like I've definitely found my way slightly away

(01:07:47):
from the recent stuff. But like Jason Muses in um Hollyweed,
oh is he Yeah? So, but I don't know, like, yeah,
what happened to like the Scott Moser's of the World
on the Wall, Flannagans the world who like end up
being character names but also literally his friends. I'm not sure.
I did see like an article that was sort of
like mall Rats cast, where are they now? Like years on,

(01:08:10):
but it was mostly like the people you know, It's like, yeah,
Michael Rookers and the Guardians of the Galaxy exactly. Yeah,
everyone did pretty well relatively after that. Yeah. Oh Rooker's
great too. I forgot he was. He was funny in
this movie. Yeah. And again another person who I just
sort of saw as not existing until mal Rats. So

(01:08:32):
then I remember, like looking at other films Michael Rooker
like had been in that predated Marats, and I was
it was so jarring for me. I was like, I
thought that was his debut. Yeah, totally. He was the
Truth or Date asshole. Yeah, that showed his ass. Yeah,
quite literally didn't. You're like, what was that again? There's
like so many of these weird slapstick moments that are

(01:08:55):
like head scratchers, like I get it, which is like
you're being an ass t s and then it's cut
to him and he's falling out of his tally see
has asked? Well, Like even like Ivana the fortune teller
who had the Third People the bit at the end
where she reveals it's like a prosthetic third nipple and
then puts it in her mouth like it's chewing. I'm like,
it's very weird. Who was that? It was that directed

(01:09:19):
or was that improv Like I don't know, man, that's
an in the moment thing. It felt like, yeah, yeah,
that was pretty funny. I forgot about all that stuff.
I had scratchers there. But I'm like, she was in
Three's Company. She was one of the sort of later
Threees company Susan summer replacements. I think, oh, that, okay,
that makes sense. I can't remember her name, but she

(01:09:40):
was one of the roommates later on kind of when
the show The Barnes, I think, right, after she had
hit hit the peak. I forgot about the third nipple
thing until today. Yeah, it totally had like wiped up
from room and it was like such an eighties like
you know type movie that Kevin Smith probably watched when
he was younger, because like there was like you gotta
have bare breasts in it for some reason, like you know,

(01:10:01):
Joey Warren Adams whether she's changing or this third nippled
fortune teller like, yeah, it's very funny. Uh well, dude,
I think this was I think we did it. I
think it was a lot of fun. Uh. We did
what I hoped we would do, which was get into
the sort of the Kevin Smith thing a little bit
um even more so than mal Rats, because he is

(01:10:24):
someone who is larger than his film output. Yeah if
that makes sense. Yeah, it's like almost to the point where,
like I said, but it makes me question like what
trying to like weigh his impact is it the films
are like that he for him being as prominent at
the time, Like what that signal to other people as

(01:10:45):
what a film could be. Yeah, it's it's it's a
it's an interesting, interesting discussion for sure. Yeah, maybe I'll
meet him one day. I've gotten the Kevin Smith looked
like things so many times over the years that I'd
like to think that at some point someone has said
you look like Chuck from stuff you should know. But
maybe I think at this point it's safe to say
that that that pendulum may swing to your direction pretty soon.

(01:11:08):
For sure. I'm not looking for that, but hey, if
you say so, I don't know. Here, what we what
we need is the stuff you should know, hockey jersey
for you to wear. Oh no, we'll start, We'll start
reverse engineering it. And like every picture I rotake, I'll
just go like this, yeah, because he has that same
look at all exactly, which is exactly the face he
had when I forced him to take that selfie at

(01:11:28):
Comic Con. Oh oh you got a selfie? Yeah? I
I honestly, like I said, I was so obsessed with
him when I was younger, and I had not really
and I completely fell off and being like following his work.
But when I saw him, I immediately just like I
you know, I time traveled to me being a kid,

(01:11:49):
and I'm like, that's so cool. Oh it's me and
Kevin Smith here, Like there's that photo. Oh nice, man,
it was exchange and I have a goofy smile because
I'm just so nervous, Like its worst. I know, it's
the worst smile I've ever had because part of me
couldn't believe I was like I had arrived in thirteen.
Twelve year old Miles had reached the summit of his fans. Yeah,

(01:12:11):
oh that's sweet man. Maybe I'll hear this you never know.
Uh well, thanks Miles. Where can people follow you aside
from listening to The Daily Zeite guys, which they should
be doing. Thank you so much for having me. Yeah,
you can find me on my other PI have another
podcast called four twenty Day Fiance where I just talked
about ninety Day Fiance, one of my favorite reality shows.

(01:12:32):
And yeah, you can find me on social media Twitter, Instagram,
at Miles of Gray, g r a y and yeah,
like you're saying, Chuck. If people want to hear me
talk news in a funny way in politics and culture
and all that, please check out the Daily see Geist
right here the same networks, really great show. Maybe you'll
have me on one day, Yeah, we gotta have you
on the other time we've had josh On and he

(01:12:54):
like didn't have a camera on it was a very
joy like one of the last times we had him.
I think maybe the Yeah you've had Josh a few times?
Do you have had me on once? We're gonna right
this wrong. I don't know what happened. I don't know
what happened, but I'm allod to this now. All right,
I'm gonna do it. Okay, all right, we'll do a
trade sees. I'll have me on Daily's like guys, and
I'll get Jack on for pulp fiction. Maybe he's waiting

(01:13:16):
on that. He was because I told him today I
was thinking I'm about to do a movie. Chrise. She's like,
oh what. I'll send him an email because I'm still
holding pulp fiction for him. Like someone even asked. I
was like, I can't do it, and I claimed it.
Oh yeah, he's what a year from movies? All right? Man,
this is a lot of fun and uh, it's good
talking to you. Yeah. Likewise, Manna take care. Movie Crash

(01:13:38):
is produced and written by Charles Bryant and Roel Brown,
edited and engineered by Seth Nicholas Johnson, is scored by
Noel Brown. Here in our home studio at Pontstey Market, Atlanta,
Georgia for I heart Radio. For more podcasts for my
heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcast, or
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