My Favorite Murder on The Silence of the Lambs

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:25):
Hey, everybody, welcome to Movie Crush Charles W. Chuck Bryant
here and our Sunny l A Studios and everybody, boy,
oh boy, was excited about this one, perhaps more so
than any other yet because I had Karen Kilgareth and
Georgia hard Stark a k A my favorite murder in
our studios. I am such a fan of their show.

(00:48):
I am a murdering no to the core myself, and uh,
just such a fan of these ladies and have been
um for about a year and I a friend of
mine introduced me to them, and I dove in really
deep and they're just they're just great. If you haven't
listened to my favorite murderer, you are missing out. And
they were kind enough to give up time from their
busy schedule meet me here in Hollywood at the studio,

(01:09):
and they even let me pick the movie because this
is my favorite murder special. So I said, what else
can we talk about, ladies aside from Silence of the Lambs.
And I know there's some murderingos out there listening to
this show that are super excited about this, And just
get ready and hold onto your hats, because we talk
about podcasting, We talk about their life growing up and

(01:29):
movies and how that figured in. And then we get
into Silence of the Lambs and we all three you
know the movie so well, so it was really really
fun to talk to them about it. So I don't
want to delay it any further. Here we go with
Karen and Georgia from my favorite murder on the Silence
of the Lambs. And I have to say to Georgia,

(01:52):
when you uh texted me to invite me to the
theater in Atlanta to tell a murder story, I have
never been more upset that I couldn't do something. Oh nice,
my in laws having like a birthday party for one
of my family members, and you know, you gave me

(02:13):
like two hours heads up, and I was just that's
how God. So whenever you come to Atlanta and I'll
just can be kind of sitting by the phone, like
with no plans. Whatsoever? Are we doing to Lanta next time?
I don't think so, Yeah we will. We'll be back
to Georgia in a way, y'all coming to I thought
you were coming to the Fox. Yes, we're we're super

(02:36):
excited about it. Did you forget? We just kind of
it's so huge that we kind of ignore it and
tell it's like the day before the Foxes, Like, that's
the big theater in Atlanta that I grew up, the
big beautiful that's what we did when we were there
last time. No, nope, I was so impressed by you

(02:56):
just now. I was like, how then do you know
that we've done a Fox theater? The Fox Theater is
what we're doing in Oakland. Yeah. No, you're gonna be see.
I know this. This is exactly how I was hoping
this would go. You're being so Georgia right now. Um. No,
you're gonna beat the Fox this fall in Atlanta and
last time you're at the Cobb Energy Center outside of Atlanta.

(03:19):
That was a good show. Yeah, that was super fun.
Was that the one where I almost resprained my ankle
walking outside because we were sitting. I have tricked ankles too,
So it is so frustrating because it's a kind of
thing where when you're trying to travel with people and
you have a bad ankle, so you're like a little
limpy and a little slow anyway, But then on top
of that, like you do something dumb and then you're like, oh,

(03:40):
I may have just resprained it like I may have
just recreated this. You stepped off a curb and there
was no curb. Yes, but I was really mad because
it started to go downhill like it was a ramp,
so I assumed after four steps I would have been
able to step right and we would giving me on
the ground. I don't blame you for that. Like, there
was also like a parking thing that I actually just

(04:00):
drove over in a parking garage just now. One of
the what are they called, like the stopper thing and
create blocks, Yeah, the bumpers or whatever, Yeah, speed bricks.
You know what every place has just drove over. I
thought you meant the scary fucking claws that like rental
car places don't back out. I get scared driving over

(04:21):
those going forward because I think you're not going the
right way, the right way. You don't trust yourself or
the mechanism. I actually one time was walking out of
a parking structure and I was so concerned I was
going to step on that claw and have it go
through my foot that I wasn't paying attention to the
fact that the bar came down on my head because
I was like looking down, like this is bad. And

(04:42):
then and then all of a sudden, it was like
a thing went gunk and then down my face and
then I took like one more step in the lady
that was in the booth. There are so many signs,
don't walk here, don't know pedestrians, and I just blazed
right up the center and then she was like, don't
walk here, just like insult to injury. Was humiliated and hurt,

(05:04):
and and then she came in with use this information.
Was like, thank thank you. I think at a concussion,
but thanks for the reminder of the thing that I
already forgot. And that's so Karen. You guys are already
being so yourselves. We didn't even know we were a
certain kind of pacingcast dip ships. It sounds like, well,

(05:26):
and what stuff you should know with us too. It's
I'm sure. I mean I can tell I can hear
it on the show. There's a lot of this, like
what the fund is happened, because the whole podcast explosion
in and of itself is kind of weird because, like
you're saying, ten years ago, I don't think I had
a podcast, but I would do them every once while
there were people that were trying to start it there

(05:46):
was there were a lot of people doing that. Remember
that there was that old it was called something Radio
and it was like out in Santa Monica and it
was this big warehouse and there was just like fifty
different podcasts going at once. Yeah. It basically the first
wave of remember watching other people doing it, like Greg
Barren and Dave Anthony doing doing projects and then just
sitting back going like, why are they trying to do radio?

(06:09):
This is weird. Everyone's supposed to try to be on TV.
I thought it was like because I listened to them
tennis years ago. Maybe not that many, but like I
thought it was like NPR style because it was all
like a Smerican life and you like smart people ship. Yeah,
So I didn't know that it was like, you know,
like just blabber. It wasn't like that. It was it
was smart people. It a little bit more smartish stuff

(06:32):
back then. But I think like it's been busted wide
open now and now there's room for dingongs like us
because when they think everyone realized you don't need some
fancy producer, you don't need a studio necessarily. Yeah, you
could just get a zoom and kind of slap it
up there. And who cares? Yeah, And then touring the
world Fox theater. They were going to every funny Fox theater.

(06:56):
Alloxes in your dress has Foxed, her dress has foxes.
Oh my god, gosh, how was um? Now you just
got back from didn't go to like fucking Norway, to
Europe and then went to the and all over ye,
and people are coming out in those weird countries. In Oslo, Norway,
we had an audience full of a theater full of

(07:18):
people that were laughing in all the right places. Hi,
my thing. I think I only told you this once,
maybe twice, but I was positive because this is happening
to stand ups that I know when you go over there,
your your sets are insanely quiet, and even if they
like you, they don't respond to like Americans responded, not verbal.
It's not the same kind of yet. So I know

(07:40):
I warned you at least once, But in my mind
I was like, we're going to eat it royally in
Scandinavia and we just have to bear through it and
then we'll get into like London and will be okay.
And instead of it being it was exactly the opposite.
It was like just as good, if not better, than
any show we've done any Yeah, sweet and I think
was the best, like they were, but it was lot

(08:00):
of ex pats too, so it was a lot of
people who were really happy to have a show there
that they could. It's like a unifying element, the murderingos
in one room. Yeah, exactly. Well, we did the UK
and Ireland two years ago and no one had prepped
me for because our experience in London was what you
were talking about is they're not very outwardly expressive, and

(08:22):
I think in Dublin, in fact, I think we played
the same theater. In Dublin, they were great, but um
in London, I was just like, holy shit, they're not
enjoying this. And after they would come up to it
and tell us how great it was and what a
fun night. You guys need to show that they're dying
up there, especially when you're talking about child murders and

(08:42):
then no one's making no one's laughing, which is like good,
but just the quietness of it all is like you
just start to think you're a terrible person. You're a
terrible person. But they're there for a reason, right, it's
their interests. But then normally we go into you know,
kind of bad things. We tried to avoid child murder

(09:03):
of live shows just because it's hard to come back from.
But but usually it's exactly like, no, but remember when.
But normally that our conversation and our kind of banter
brings it back up. And so that was my worry,
was like we're going to go down and never come
back up, and then it would just be like being
at a funeral, like a recorded funeral, where it's just like,

(09:24):
that's not the point of any of this. But they
get it. I think it's also because these days people
hear what other shows sound like and they get almost
like what their part is a little bit yeah, and
they're just so delighted to be there in person, Like
you know how, it's it's a very safe stage to
walk out on. I'm sure the same folity is for us,
Like we can funk it up in the middle and

(09:45):
I can be like, well, that was the worst joke
ever and Jerry of the Future edit that out and
everyone thinks it's hysterical and I can't imagine going and
doing stand up, But I can walk out in front
of people and it's like it's great. Even nervous anymore
because they're all there to be supportive. That was a
hard adjustment for me in the beginning, having done stand up.

(10:07):
When we were first performing, it made I got super
controlling because I was expecting that they needed this this
like very um like accurate delivery, jokes, time and craft,
yeah and yeah, and and like that we needed to Hey,
if we do this, then we need to do that.

(10:27):
And what I realized is, not only is that not necessary,
they want us to be doing it exactly what we
do injured. All they're looking for is to recreate the
experience in their ear holes. But their best buddies, Karen
and Georgia hang. They just want to hang. They just
want to hang, yeah, which is a very nice safe feeling.
Were you like, dude, what are you doing? Stop managing this? Uh?

(10:49):
I was like, I don't know what I'm doing. Tell
me what? Like. Of course, I was like, if I
don't listen to what Karen's like advice, sage advices, I'm
a fucking asshole because you've been doing this and I
know I don't know what I'm I've never done I've
done like storytelling shows for twenty people, but I've also
done live TV. So that was helpful, but I was um.

(11:11):
Karen would say to me, you do not Like after
a couple of shows, she was like, you don't know
how lucky you are that you know that this is
what you're starting with abstely, you know you didn't have
to be broken up. Yeah, I know that, And I'm
like the gratitude. I wake up every day and I'm like, Okay,
this is my life and I'm so grateful. It's very,

(11:31):
very cool. And also it's just so much more fun.
I suffered when I did stand up comedy. I hated
the way back in the day too. I hated it personally.
I was not a fan of it at all. But
it is also it's just a very It is incredibly difficult,
and so then I almost felt like we have to

(11:52):
do this, Like I just got it into my head
that it was we had to do a whole different thing,
and I finally realized it. It It was one of those
Portlands shows there was nuts and we were Even though
it was nuts, there are people. I think they sold
really big cans of beer, so everyone got a little
trashier than they probably even thought they would. It's always fun, yeah,
but it ended up it was that thing where I
went it was like Steve Martin at the end of Parenthood,

(12:14):
where I went like, Oh, this is good chaos, This
is like, this is what we want to be happen
when you're having so much fun on stage that you
just forget that you're in front of not because they're
not strange, sort of like your friends. They know you,
sure you know, and that's it's sort of similar. That's
why identify. It's like it feels like a big family.
And the thing that we always get that I know

(12:34):
that y'all get, is we feel like we know you.
We feel like we're friends. And I always say, you know,
we kind of feel the same way because it's totally
reciprocal and we're all, uh, we're all in the same
head frame. Yeah, totally. Every single person we've met, whether
it's like in the meat and grade after or five shows,
or in on the street a person, it's like, oh,

(12:55):
I would be friends with this person. It's never anyone weird.
It's always just like good people creeps yet not yet. No, No,
what's weird is it's always it's like a familiar person.
So it's either somebody it's like, oh, this is my
sister or this is the girl I was roommates within college.
It's always like of the uh, you know types that

(13:16):
the life casting types. It's like the same four or
five different types. And even dudes too, which is like,
you know, they don't give them a credit on the show,
but like dods we meet, they're like, oh, you're my
friend's big brother. I totally know who you are. Yeah, yeah,
so you have a I mean, I know True crime
in general has a larger female audience, but like I'm
a huge fan and I know there's a lot of

(13:37):
guys out there. How does it break down for the shows?
Just is it really there? There's times at the those
meet and greats, which is a very small amount of
the people that are there. But when like guys come
around the corner will be like boys because it just
doesn't happen that often, or it'll be someone with their
boyfriend and then we'll go, um, we try to get

(13:59):
it out of them and me, were you dragged here
or did you you already converted before you came, because
that's the most fascinating person to meet. Yeah, and it's
also fun when um, sometimes we'll get like I've never
heard of you guys and I just came with my
friend and like, I can't wait to download this and listen.
Even if it's ten people in a theater, you think,
all right, well we've converted ten more. I mean, that's

(14:20):
the ultimate victory, right. It's like someone who's like, I
don't even know what podcasts are. And then at the end,
my thing is I always tell this to Georgia if
I can see security guards in the room there, because
it's such a tenuous like true crime comedy, you can
tell there's people who are like what is this and
I don't like this immediately, and there was I think

(14:41):
that was a Texas show, Yeah yeah, yeah, where there
there was a guy standing right in the front of
the stage and I just I felt like everything I
was doing was like this is for and about either
and he was cracking up. By the end we had
him on our side. It was awesome. But I mean
it's you understand that that's almost part of the job,
is like you have to convince people that you aren't

(15:03):
that you um for our things. Specifically that people go
like this is an appropriate or you shouldn't be doing
this or that, and it's like no, no, no no, trust
us that we're actually going to do it right, and
we're not assholes, and we're not we don't think people
be murdered is funny. And there's a complexity to it
that we actually can handle if you would just give
us the benefit of the doubt. And that's a really thrilling,

(15:25):
thring thing to actually be able to prove you know,
that's great and what a cool thing for you. Like
you've had a long career where I feel like you've
always been working in some way or another, and then
like at this stage to hit this like point, it's like,
fucking great. It's pretty magical. It is not anything I
thought was gonna happen. I was like, maybe I'll just

(15:46):
get a one level better staff writing job and then
then I'll be happy. But like this thing came in
out of left field and saying, all right, I don't
trust it. I almost don't like it. It's so awesome
and perfect under like when this is going to go away? Right, perhaps, Lily.
I was just talking my therapist about that today two

(16:06):
hours ago. It's hard to trust because it's big, and
I think that makes you appreciate it more and like
try harder, and I think you just have to stay
grounded in that gratitude. Yeah, because I would be doing
this anyway, if like I would be doing this with
you guys just down the street with no microphone, so
the idea that this is somehow our bread and butter,

(16:26):
or we would still be recording the podcast if it
wasn't like if it was you know, had way smaller
listeners and wasn't wasn't our career. Now, we'd still be
doing it. And it's fucking fun and we love it.
Like I had a podcast for like four years that
got this, you know, not a lot of downloads, but
it's fun. Yeah, it's cool medium, you know, and now

(16:47):
well now it makes money. I never made money on
it until Yeah. That's the new part for podcast is
that it's actually becoming a true business people in a career,
and it's it's that even gets a little scary for
me though, is I'm head of content and development at
our network now, so I'm in a lot of the
meetings about the industry and it's changing fucking hourly, it

(17:09):
seems like, and like I don't even know what it's
going to look like in a couple of years. So
I'm still a little bit like, should I trust this.
Do you feel protective of the like of the podcasting
a little bit? Where Yeah, I don't want to let
all these outsiders who were never interested in it before
into it, oh um, a little bit. But I try
to like not be that way because I have like

(17:31):
comedian friends who I know look at me like selling
out a seat theater and they're like fuck that, and
like friends of mine, ashole, that's no trust me. And
I know I have plenty of friends in the industry
like that that think like I didn't earn this at all,

(17:53):
But what are you gonna do? People listened ANSU Yeah, exactly.
That's the beautiful part is it's like the people voted nobody,
nobody is related to anybody. It's not any of that
kind of usual ship. It's just like it's not our
fault for some reason. This is the thing people like,
So yeah, any kind of any of that. I always
have that fraud issue and that kind of like um

(18:17):
guilt or something, and that's my I don't know. As
I move into my middle age, I'm just like, he'll
gives a fuck. You have to. It just ruins the fun.
If you don't become a big asshole and think like
I fucking deserve this, right, No one deserves this. Yeah, totally, Yeah,

(18:39):
maybe Malala George. I'm a little disappointed you're not drinking
can Rose? Oh do we have it? She's like, all
I can do it. My our babysitter, my wife and
his babysitter was telling a story the other day about
being like super drunk, and she was like, oh, I
was drinking was this can Rose? And I just heard

(19:00):
that episode where you were getting like a little thick tongued.
Those things are super loaded up with it's something like
really high. And she was like, I looked at the
can and I was like, well, I'm gonna have to
Georgia this. It wasn't just you, It's happening all over. Yeah,
that's why this last episode that came out today you

(19:22):
can hear. I didn't open my can of sparkling wine
until after my story was done, because I was like,
now I get to sit back. Yeah, you did it
drink now that's great. Uh. So, well, I know where
you grew up. But for the benefit of listeners, uh
to movie crush, where did you both grow up? I'm

(19:43):
from northern California. I grew up in a town called Pedaluma,
ris Wrestling Capital World and it used to be the
but the Egg Capital, but I think we got we
got knocked out. But they still have the Butter and
Eggs Day Parade every year. Very egg based UM society.

(20:05):
It's in your southern California. Yeah, I was born in
l a and then I grew up in sucking Orange County.
I thought I was, but I've been here since for
twenty years back in l A. H. How did movies
figure into your respective lives growing up raised on them? Yeah, Yeah,
we had in Palma. There's a um A theater downtown

(20:27):
that was like kind of one of those old They
played Rocky Horror every Friday night for for the longest
and the longest running UM showing of that, and it
was the really cool theater that they every day they
had a double feature that kind of went together, and
so it was always like they would always be like
eating Raoul and you know whatever, fast times at Ridgemont High.

(20:52):
But like they would kind of um they cultivated it
a lot. So like that's the movie where I saw
Fame for the first time and the like title word
came on the screen intensely packed out. How it started
everybody started screaming, and then all these joints started up
getting lit up, and I was like, oh, this is like,
this is what adults do. I was probably twelve years old,

(21:14):
same fame. It was just like and that's what they did.
That's basically what they did. Yeah, I mean I think
those types of like, um, those types of kind of art,
the art or movies. Yeah, yeah, so it was a
big deal. It was a very big deal to me.
But my dad used to make us bring popcorn from
Oh no, we did that a little bit famously, Like

(21:37):
had a purse the size of a car, and she
would just we would sneak in everything. Yeah, but it's
not as good, No, it sucks ship. And he used
to put it in a grocery bag so he would
make like a huge thing, roll it up for you
and then like here's sneak that in so embarrassing. And
we did the same thing. Like my parents are teachers.
We didn't have a ton of money, just sort of

(21:58):
solidly lowish middle glass and it was a lot of
money to take out. And this was just like you're
not allowed to have anything. Yeah, you don't ever get that.
I don't eat popcorn and theaters because it's like, well,
why would you do? I never did that? Such a waste. Yeah,
well it is insanely expensive. I mean yeah, it was
right in a way. But it's like I don't want popcorn.

(22:20):
I want movie popcorn. That's right. I just want salt
in my mute popcorn. Yeah. Yeah, I'll still sneak in
like the bottle of water every now and then. And
it's just so dumb. Yeah, like what am I doing?
It's just in my d n a to like take
a few extra sugar packets for the road or napkins. Oh, napkins,
for sure. Those are my car tissues. I do that

(22:42):
too time. I owe Starbucks about five dollars and napkin fees.
They have good straws to to bring home for your smoothies.
Oh that's good. Oh they don't. You're just grabbing a
handful of straw. No maybe, yes, No, don't worry about it.
It's private. Um. What were some of your favorite movies
growing up, like in the formative years or impactful or favorite?

(23:05):
I mean I remember the night, um that Ciskel and
Ebert reviewed sixteen Candles. We used to always watch that show.
I think it was the weekend show. Yeah. I feel
like it was on like Saturday yesterday. Yeah, like a
syndicated thing. Loved it that. I just remember they started it.
They started to run the clip, and I jumped off
off the couch. So I was probably like thirteen or

(23:27):
something and stood next to TV looking at my mom, going,
you have to bring it into this, you have to
take me, and she was like okay, And it was
just like I had the most visceral reaction to that
John he was there was nothing like that. Yeah, it
was made for me, but there was also nothing like
that an adult kids comedy, like a smart teen thing

(23:48):
like that. And so she brought us to it at
that theater and I just it was like I was
on the John Hughes train. I mean, forget about it.
He's taken. I mean really taken. Even as a uh
he was like I remember seeing that movie as a
teenager and as a guy being like I want to
like I wanted to look like that guy, and I

(24:09):
started wearing preppy or clothes and stuff like that, but
I had an old Volkswagen and not a Porsche. He
was like almost better looking than Matt Dylan, which is
really like my sister would kill me if you heard
me say that. But better Matt. He was like an
updated Matt Dillon for the eighties. Yeah, he was shocking

(24:29):
Matt Dylan. I saw him recently and something I had
to watch for this and Rumble Fish and uh, he's
like one of those guys has done solid work his
whole career but has always kept such a low pro
that you don't think about him much because he's never
in the news. You never is he is he like
your super guy? Well, um, he was my sister super guy,

(24:51):
so I absorbed a lot of that from her. She
was my older sister. But like I just rewatched The
Outsiders and such a good movie, such a good movie.
He's you never think about. It's not a kid acting,
it's that he is that character and he does that thing.
Remember that scene where he does he does the thing
where they it just shows them being Greaser's where they're like,

(25:13):
you know, they come upon some kids playing cards in
a field and then he goes, it's the same about kids.
I just don't like him. And he does this like
it's very James Dean. It's very overly dramatic, but he
was so perfectly done. And then they like like basically
threatened to kill the kids and chase them all around
or whatever. But I just want, like, you're such a

(25:33):
better actor as a like eighteen year old or even
a sixteen year old than you ever got credit for.
And he had no training. They picked him out of
his high school and put him into Over the Edge,
that crazy movie about kids rebelling at the town or whatever,
and and basically that was then he just started acting.

(25:53):
But I'm sure he went to private classes or whatever,
but I mean he was a star as he was
learning about acting. Let's talk. I mean, we can't not
talk about little darlings. I didn't find until I was
older because I'm I'm a little younger than you. How
do I say this without sounding like a dick? It's
too late and I know you're not. We can deal

(26:15):
with the Yeah, little darlings I saw because I just
had this like Tatumonial obsession because of Paper Moons, like
one of my favorite movies. Was like, I need to
watch everything with tatumoniala And then I was like, how
did I know? I'm glad I didn't watch this as
a kid. I thought was my first R movie in
the theater. My cousin Cheryl snuck us in and I
was I probably think I was ten. And the part

(26:35):
where they're all standing around blowing up condoms with their mouth,
I had the entire audience was going insane laughing, and
I was like, balloons are not that funny? Why would
people laugh at I just thought that everyone was so stupid.
And I got to that because I grew up a
little church boy and reformed church church boy now. But
I was not allowed to see that, so I still

(26:56):
haven't seen that. Well, the good girl does have sex
and the bad girl does. That's the twist that you
do not see coming. Who's the bad girl? Um, Christie McNichol. Oh, well,
she was my first crush, which I don't know what
that says about me now, but I did the thing
and you probably remember this where you would send off

(27:18):
for like an address to write a piece of fan mail.
I did this exact same thing with Kristy mcnichole. Wait
you tell me, well that was it. We probably wrote
our letters the same week. Yes, And I've said off
and got her address somehow and wrote her like a
sort of a love letter. I did too. You know.
I love that show Family that she was on and

(27:39):
she was she played Buddy and she's like the tomboy girl,
and I just thought like she was the realist. Everybody
else that acted on TV had this veneer of like
I'm sweet and it was like presentational, bad high school acting.
And here comes Kristie McNichol, and she's just like the
fucking being real and really like, um she has a

(28:02):
Jodie Foster feel to her in that it's like every
she plays it all small, but it's all very real
and there's like an intensity to it. And I just
thought she was amazing. And I wrote her letter and
never got anything back, and then I was like, I
don't like her anymore. I cut her out of my heart.
I don't remember when my crush ended for her, has
it ever? Probably she's gay, right she is? Yeah, I

(28:25):
think she is Foster. Maybe there's something to that. Maybe
well you know what it is. It's like they can
bring more to the role than just the standardized like yeah,
I'm cute, I'm pretty, I'm a cheerleader or whatever, where
it's like there's also other types of people in the world,
and then you're like, oh, other types of people. This
is interesting. A woman that isn't just in address, you know, Yeah,

(28:48):
for sure. Uh. And of course the John Hughes movies
were so big, Like I remember seeing Breakfast Club in
our nine theater in our town and we would just
take chances on movies. I didn't really know what it
was at the time, although I had seen Sixteen Candles,
but I think that was before I was like, oh,
this is the next movie from this director. I wasn't
that savvy yet. None of us knew what that meant. Yeah,

(29:09):
that wasn't that wasn't a thing back then, pre IMDP
days before that was the thing. But those movies were
just huge for me growing up. Yeah, they were so funny,
they were so interesting. It was almost like for sixteen Candles,
especially the soundtrack and the clothes those kids were. I
was like, this is a town in Chicago where everyone's cool,
and I want to live in that town, and like

(29:31):
would I even fit in in that town? It stressed
me out, just like there was some There was some
part where Molly Ringwald has a blue binder and she
she the rave ups was written is like, you know,
like doodles on the binder that you can see as
she's walking, and I completely wrote the Rave Ups on
my binder. I had never heard the band. I didn't
even know it was a band or what it was.

(29:53):
But I was just like, whatever, this whole lifestyle is,
I want, I want it. And then notebook doodling and
well pre notebook doling, I guess it was like the
trapper Keeper stuff. And we were like, young, young, is
that your experience or is this all like old people
just ten years behind? Well, I but I had older siblings,
so I kind of I'm still there with the you know, timeline.

(30:15):
But then there was this time in high school where
I I just got really big into the eighties and
I was like, this is my fucking thing. I'm obsessed.
And so I got the soundtrack to Breakfast Club on
vinyl I and then I also went to Rocky Horse Live.
I was just obsessed. But you know, yeah, you had
eighties thing for a while. Yeah, but you know, growing

(30:36):
up in the eighties, I had no supervision, so I
watched all the same things. There was no like, you know,
nothing was off limits. So yeah, yeah, I was sort
of monitored. I was the third kid, though, so I
got less monitoring as I grew ups too, but coming
from like a churchy household, like I couldn't see little

(30:59):
Darling's and I was in barrassed when I remember like
asking my mom so embarrassing now, but asking my mom
to take me out of Greece during the sleep overseen
because they were in their underwear and I was like, Mom,
I don't like well, and I just thought it was
embarrassing because my mom was there, and growing up Southern Baptist,

(31:20):
I thought like sex and nunity was the dirtiest, most
awful thing that you could do. Yeah, and I'm still
unpacking that. I mean, that's that's what That's the great
gift that religion gives you, that just keeps on giving.
Catholic though for you, which is a different thing to
unpack it is, it's um, but that sex guilt is

(31:42):
so weird. It's just like what the like feelings that
you're having you have no control over and that you
and that every other person on the planet has and
you still are like Jesus is mad. But I feel
about this right now. It's so damaging. Yeah, it is
because it's biology. Yeah, and you're told that you're not
feeling like the things you're feeling are wrong. Yeah, but

(32:05):
that's a different episode. Did you grew up wonderfully atheist
in your house? That's a different podcast Altogether. I grew
up Jewish, like very very reformed Jewish, and from with parents,
especially my mom, who was like the where did I
come from? Thing, like from a very young age. So
I book, I love that. That's the best. So I

(32:25):
had to rein mine back, like instead of being like, oh,
this is scandalous, I had to be like, no, George,
some ship scandalous because I always has anything and sex
was not a big deal. So when I got older,
I had to realize, like, sex is a big deal,
and you and I kind of had to put some
you know, brains on that. But the foot washing. But
the foot washing in the mont story, we had a

(32:49):
food washing station because that was your principle Spanish. It
is an absolute someones that should not have been at
that school. Definitely, I'll probably pepper in little Things for
the murderingos, because there are quite a few of them
that are very excited about this, these worlds colliding. It's
very cool and it's so nice. Thank you so much,
because that's so nice to have your own insane inside

(33:11):
jokes referenced on another pot and I mean I haven't
even been listening that long, probably about eight months, um,
but I went to like pretty pretty quickly and deep
pretty radily, thank you. I'm sorry so many. I was
going to try and work in my favorite little route
things that you guys do, but um, I'll probably just

(33:31):
go ahead and tell you, um instead of doing that inorganically. Obviously,
I know that you probably know yours right. Mine thing
about it is that it's ship that we do on
a normal basis, that we've done our whole lives, and
suddenly people are like that thing you do consciously, I
love it, and then you get really self conscious of it.

(33:54):
But it's the best, thank you and for yours. What
I was gonna do is my favorite thing that you
do is oh shit, no one's ever brought that up.
Oh do you not realize that's a Karen thing. I
don't think I do. Oh ship, Yeah, I hear it.

(34:14):
My thing is the this exactly what I'm about to
do right now and what I'm doing right now where
I have to preamble a statement with four other statements
that are like here's the thing, and I need you
to know this. It's like I have to stop the
room when no one's no one's going to interrupt me.
It's insane. And when the scene, Yeah, when we had

(34:35):
Paul holes on, I did it. There was one thing
I tried to ask him, and I did it about
six times in a row where I'm like, you sound
like a crazy person. You sound like someone who doesn't
know what they want to say, but you think you'll
just work your way up to it if you keep talking, right.
I love it, and I think that's why, like our
conversations work so well as in my family, Like you
can start in the middle of a conversation three weeks

(34:55):
later and the person will be like yeah, and they're
right there with you. Like you just don't finish thoughts,
you don't finish sentences. In the middle of my conversation
with my therapist today, we were talking about something deep.
She goes to take a sip of her water and
it's a water brand that might advertise with us, and
I was like, you know, and so I did, hey,
do you like that water? And she didn't miss a beat.

(35:17):
Then we got right back to it. It was the
best she does. She does like it, Okay, good, what's
the water? I'm not gonna they're not hanging us to
talk about on the podcast though where it is that was.
But when you get a guy like Holes in there

(35:38):
who doesn't like, isn't a fan of your show, I
assume no, he's never listened, So yeah, I imagine that,
so you probably do think he thinks we're crazy. Yeah,
And also he's just what I realized with that and
all the feelings around it that we've had to unpack
for weeks now, UM, is that it's a person like I.

(36:00):
I don't I'm pretty sure you don't care about celebrities
per se, but these people that actually do this work
that we read article after article about, and they're actually
the ones that do the hard, awful work that no
one wants to do. Um, there's a nobility to it,
and there's like it's what you actually project onto celebrities
is what most people are like, Oh, Matt Damon, he's

(36:21):
such a great guy, and it's like, we don't really
know anything that Damon's doing, But like when you project
them onto pol Hole's you're probably gonna be pretty right
because he even if he's the worst person on the weekend,
he spends those other five days fighting the good fight
and so yeah, when he was there in front of us,
there was just that kind of he was so good

(36:43):
at talking about this thing we're so obsessed with, and
about the specifics of it and about the real the
real work of it and the real job of it.
It was. It was so amazing. Yeah, and not getting
rich doing it, Let's be honest, No, I don't think.
So it is weird to go from this, Like you know,
I think probably being in the entertainment industry, just to
meet someone who has like a purpose and meaning in

(37:05):
their lives is really and and you know, integrity, and
it's just nice to meet someone like that, and so
you're in awe of them in a way that I'm
not with you know, some celebrity things actor or whatever. Right, Well,
and you guys nerd out so much on forensic science
and people like corners and people who do autopsies, and

(37:28):
it is I mean, it's the hardest job. It's just
like some awful thing happens that's so awful, everyone like
turns away and there's a team of people to go
in at that point and clean up the awfulness. And
that's amazing. Yeah, we did a crime scene cleanup episode
on stuff you should know once and like really researching
the nitty gritty of that ship is just like amazing, Yes,

(37:51):
because a lot of times they're just civilians, right that
start their own company and yeah that's and they're like, yeah,
it's never bothered me and it's pretty good money. And
why people make the decisions they make good and helping
people because like in Michelle's book I'll Be Gone in
the Dark, she talks about the brother in law coming

(38:11):
in to like clean up you know, crime scene and
it's so they didn't have that before, you know, have
crime scene clean up copies, so the family had to
do it, which is it's so awful and that's like
every movie ever with the scrub brush and the blood
stain on the rug. It's a trump come up, Yeah exactly,

(38:32):
It's yeah, all right, well we can get into Silence
of the Lambs. Um here is my first experience with
this movie, which is a little crazy. I was a
freshman in college and the university had a theater like

(38:52):
the University Theater, where they would show movies and then
sometimes it would be like a sneak preview of another
movie and you could stay. So I went saw Dancing
with Wolves because I'm in college. I still had nothing
to do. Fucking four hours later and they said, if
you want to stay after, we're going to be screening
a movie with Anthony Hopkins and Jodie Foster, you have nothing,

(39:15):
And I was like, all right, And it sounds heard
Anthony Hopkins Silence of the Lambs Jodie Foster, and I
thought this is probably like a merchant Ivory thing some
period peace and cut to like an hour later and
I'm just fucking like, what am I watching right now?
So I can't imagine like a weirder way to see
that movie, and did not know anything about it going

(39:37):
into it, but it was awesome and just like from
the very beginning, it's been one of my favorite movies
of all time. Yeah, it has one of the best beginnings.
It's like it sets you to place and it introduces
you to a person, and it does all these things
really clean and really clear without words, without words, and

(39:57):
with her just struggling and like I mean with the
like the Quantico. Yeah, her running that course getting checked
out by the big group of guys that she's all
by herself and she has to climb that thing getting
into the elevator, the teeny tiny little yeah, and it's
it's just like, so I lived in I was also
in college. We're pretty much the same age. Um. And

(40:20):
I had read the book and that in that crazy
ghost story that I've told you already read the book.
I'd already read the book, um because my sister and
her friend, my sister's friend Adrian like was like here,
read this and it was man Hunter. Um, and then
so then it was Science of Lambs and right, because

(40:41):
that's after that Thomas Harris. But I think it is
I think Man Hunter's first. But um, but I read
it over the weekend and then had a weird ghost
experience in the house that I was living in because
I was there by myself. Um. It's really long, but basically, um,
I read this book so much that I kind of
started to believe I was Clarice Starling like in as

(41:02):
I was reading, and it was like, this is happening
to me. And then that night I went to bed
full house that had we'd already been having weird things happened,
but we weren't acknowledging it to each other. We were
just like, oh, I don't know, you know. And then
that night I woke up in the middle of night
hearing footsteps out in the dining room, and I was like,
I can't believe I'm going to get murdered like this,
Like I just completely was like, this is this is

(41:24):
everything I've always feared and it's actually happening. And I
heard the footsteps come down the back hallway, walk through,
open the one door to the bathroom, walk on a linoleum,
opened the door to my bedroom, and then I heard
feet on the carpet in my bedroom. I felt weight
on the mattress. I tipped backwards and I was like
just frozen solid, and then I felt arms go around

(41:45):
my waist and squeeze, and then it was over and
there was no There was no one there, and it was,
you know, three thirty in the morning. I called my sister,
thank god she lived across town, and made her come
and get me and stayed with her for the rest
of the weekend, and everybody came bad. It was crazy,
But I do know that that book set a tone

(42:06):
for It was that kind of thing where I couldn't
stop reading it. So I started reading it in the
morning and then the sun went down and the house
got dark around me, and I was reading that book
because it's just so like her alone trying to, you know,
solve this thing. Yeah. I read American Psycho in college
when I was working the midnight to eight am shift

(42:28):
at a Convenient Story, and I don't know how you're
supposed to take that book. Years later, with the movie,
I was like, oh, this is sort of like the
darkest comedy, or at least the way Mary Herron directed it.
Tongue and shake a little, I guess, because that's what
the movie is sort of like. But when I was
reading the book, it was scary as ship. And when

(42:49):
you work overnight like that, you just the fluorescent lights
were buzzing, And for that like week, I was in
a really really weird headspace. So I know, like a
book can creep in like movies can, but when you're
immerged in a book over like hours and days, it
can really kind of funk with your head space. Yeah,
because it's like a movie in your head, you're the
one that's directing the movie. Yet when we went to

(43:09):
see So, it was the Tower Theater in Sacramento, which
is a big old theater, really huge screen, and so
we went to see the movie. I knew it, so
I was like, well, you know, whenever, and um it
was like we were. We all when it was over
turned to each other, like we're coming back tomorrow night,
like we immediately we went so insane And it was

(43:30):
the best movie I've ever seen, second only I think
too or up there with The Fugitive, which we also
saw in that theater. And I'm sure it was the
theater experience as just as much as anything. But I
just couldn't believe how I love to look for parts
where I go this is where you fall apart, this
is where this starts to suck, and I feel like

(43:51):
in inns Lamb's you cannot do that. It's in your
perfect film and there aren't many. What do you remember
your first time seeing it? Well, yeah, recently I rewatched
I watch it last night. But recently I rewatched it
after a while and I was and I remember watching
it in the theaters, and so I went in to
look what year it came out and realized that I
was ten years old when I saw it, because you

(44:13):
did see and I was like, what the fuck is
wrong with my parents? And I'll tell you what. They
were divorced when I was really young and so my
dad had us every other weekend, and what you did
was go, I'm so like with there are three of us,
and it was took us to the movie theater, threw
us in there. I was like, go watch a fucking
movie movie and leave me alone. So my sister and
I went and watched Silence of the Lands and she's

(44:35):
like maybe twelve or thirteen, and I just couldn't believe it,
and like, no, wonder, I have insomnia and anxiety. It's
just like the most fucked up movie. And I was
in love with it and I didn't. As you were
saying to I didn't understand half of it, Miggs, and
I was like, what did he throw out her face?
I totally didn't. I don't know. I think I got
that when I was in college because I was I

(44:58):
didn't understand fling sperm. I don't think I do. But
they did that so perfectly, because that could have been
a really gross, salacious and almost like they did that
in exactly the way where you got as upset as
you needed to be, but you also it was not gratuitous.
Roth had directed that scene, you have seen full on
hard penis, Yeah, you would have seen no there would

(45:21):
been no mystery in any way, shape or form. Which
is yeah, even last night when I watched it. And
this keeps happening as I see new things and I
understand new things, and I you know, there's a lot
of mumbling in that movie that I didn't understand what
they were saying at the time, and I kind of
got things a lot. I understood it a little more. Yeah,
it's just but I think that's what happened. When you

(45:43):
watch that at ten years old, you're not going to
kick off on a lot of this. Also, your brain
might have gone, like, we need to shut this down now.
This clearly I know I remember watching it many times
and after that, so he must have let us rent
it a rent a party movie theater. What is it called?
Just really did this scar? Super deep? Yeah? What I

(46:04):
this is actually a sidebar, But I just realized when
you were ten, I was twenty one cut thing in
the world. I know. I've never thought you were a
different age than me. I knew it's conceptually at home,
because did I come up to you at ten? I
always think about this because my husband's older than me, Like,
what if I'd come up to you an I like, Hey,

(46:24):
we're spread. I wanta tell you everything, get the fuck
away from it, and like, I can't wait to see
the movie of y'all's story. That's going to be the
most adorable scene every friends and be like, what do
you have any clothes? No? Those burnt holes in your lungs?

(46:47):
Wouldn't that what they said about clothes that my mom
told me there was tiny shards of glasses clothes. Yeah,
I love yeah, because she found them in my pocket
when I was in high school and she did the
classic like she came up to and she was like,
I found these in your pocket. I was like, she goes,
you can smoke them if you want to, but there's
tiny shards of glass anyway, and like left or I

(47:08):
was remember hearing that too. That's bullshit of course, right
total because I too real. They put tiny shards of
glass and anything I don't know, just like please Sue
us would say that, yeah, of course is the gateway
drug clothes. All right, let's smoke a clove right now,
the grossest gross like most like I wish I was goth.

(47:28):
I can't even get it together to be goth. So
I'm gonna smoke clothes that Remember that taste the movie Ladybird.
They do it so perfectly where she smokes a cloth
and goes lick your lips and I remember that taste
right when that happened, and that's sweet candy. Before you
can get your hands on drugs. When you're just getting
your hands right, you can get your hands on it
like I shouldn't be doing you like you can get

(47:50):
a little bit lightheaded. Yes, yeah, it's funny. My daughter
is almost three and she was spinning the other day.
She was smoking a cloth the other day and she
was spinning and got dizzy, and I made a joke.
I was like, spinning, that's the gateway drug. That's the
first one, because you could see it in her eyes.
She was a little drunk and she was like, this
feels kind of good. Yeah, it's like that's where it's sucking.
Starts your eye on that one spinning. Uh. So this

(48:14):
movie was the um I think, only the third film
in history to win the Big Five, which is just amazing.
And and if you consider this a horror movie, which
I don't fully, but it's the first movie of this
type to win Best Picture ever and since so one
obviously pictured director, actor, actress, and screenplay. Um, so it

(48:38):
wasn't just like I think, in anyone else's hands it
could have been just a little tawdry thriller. But like
DEMI was such a master. And I was so sad
when when he passed away, because he was I think
one of the more underrated filmmakers of his time, and
that whole thing of you know, he had to really
fight to do that thing where talking it into camera.

(49:01):
They fought him on that, I think from what I
saw some documentary, but I can't remember if it was
the studio or what the situation or if it was
other people on. But that was his vision that kind
of a lot of people didn't believe it, and he
basically got Jodie Foster and Anthony Hopkins to believe this
was going to be the best way to do it.
And I feel like that's everything in that movie. Is

(49:23):
it totally is they're talking to you when she walks up,
You're walking up when he says hello, Clari's you know,
like that moment, it's happening to you. And it's not
just the Hannibal character, like he does that with Scott
Glenn and all the sheriff's deputies in the room, like
he has all those first person shots where you're Jody,

(49:45):
where you're Clarisse for a moment you feel what it's like,
I'll go home now. I love that that scene where
she has to that's such a They do so many things.
I love that they show she is a beginner and
she has to try out the these things. She's not
automatically great at everything. So that whole thing where she
has to tell what eleven like sheriff's deficit on her

(50:11):
family would thank you if they could, that whole speech
she has to give where she's never done that before
and she has to she has to assert herself and
then afterwards telling him like it matters, would look they
look to you it matters. It was like a little
subtle thing like that when I noticed for the first
time last night when I watched it that she turns
around to put the stuff under her nose for smelling,
like even that as a later private moment, and it's

(50:34):
like it's embarrassing. Well, and in that autopsy scene she
just like I agree, making her a rookie or a
student even was just a stroke of genius because during
the autopsy scene she gets her ship together so fast
that uh, And I've seen it so many times, but
different things like stand out, and that one really stood
out is this is a scene that was making the

(50:56):
men in the room sick. And she turns around and
it's right there and she's all right, now, now it's
time for me to do my job. Yeah I have to.
I have to job I don't even have yet. Yeah,
I have to level up and be in charge. And
also it's the thing that is what good mentors do
is they make their their mentees kind of like do
the hardest possible thing so that they learn. And the

(51:17):
way she is talking into that tape recorder, it's she's
not being the way uh Scott, the Scott GluN character
with the um she's you can hear her voice breaking,
and she's emotional and she's describing these horrible things, but
she's also like trying to keep it under wraps. It's

(51:38):
just and she does. I just Jodie Foster is such
an unsung I mean, she's pretty song, but I feel
like she's levels and levels above what people appreciate her for.
It's almost like it's so natural for her that people
don't notice how fucking great she is. Like she's such
a natural, like I put a, yeah, she does, and
she makes it look real, so it's like there is

(51:59):
an bunch of extra eyebrows or whatever, and emotional moments
I put a. I tweeted a joke the other day
and it was like, am I really going to eat
popcorn again for dinner? And then I put up the
gift of her going yes, And it's that. But the
reason that gift is so perfect is because she has
a single tear sitting on her eyelid, her bottom eyelid

(52:22):
right here, that hasn't dropped and probably never dropped. So
it's the end of the actual are the lamb still
screaming seen? And she doesn't do anything except for her
eyebrows come together a little bit sadly and she just
goes yeah. But she doesn't like micro micro it's such good.

(52:44):
You know why. It's because she's fucking holding that tear.
She's sucking that tear in and concentrating only on not
showing that tear fall. Yeah, it's like the feeling you
get watching it, right, because she can't if she shows
that to Hannibal Lefter, like she has to tell him
the worst story that he he wants the tears and
she has to give him just enough to get out
to get to the next step, but she can't like

(53:07):
fall victim or prey to him. Got that dance like
I didn't realize until the other day. The way this
is first described when Scott Glenn says what he wants
her to do. He calls it an interesting errand she's like,
is it a you know, a job or something. He's like,
it's an interesting errand like, fucking are you kidding me?
Talk about underselling something? Yeah? Yeah, And that first shot

(53:29):
of him when the camera's going down that fucking dungeon
hallway and standing there so like erect and still just
like chilling, like like chicken skin right now. And you
know that was his choice and those were like acting choices,
and Anthony just play it all like that. She was
going to be very formal and he was going to
be very professional with her, and he was going to

(53:49):
be very kindly. And then then that contrast when he's
like and all that ship is like then, because he
really is. He's a super genius. Is this doctor an
ultimate manipulator? Yeah, So he's like a genius. Wouldn't sit
there and be like acting like a vampire or that
it wouldn't make no sense, like you have to hide
and plain sight dr lector so like the whole I

(54:11):
think his hands behind are behind his back, aren't they. Yeah,
he's just sort of standing. It looks like a statue
and the only thing moving is his eyes following her.
But that dance that it sets up with those two,
it's just it's like cinema history, like unfolding right there
in front of your eyes. So good, so great, people
will think we're in love. One of the great lines
of that movie. Great. Uh. And and before that, you know,

(54:37):
they set up with the creep doctor Chilton, who is
really the villain of the movie, you know, like one
of the great movie villains. Is that guy again another
like an unsung character actor because you don't think for
one second that guy isn't real totally totally, and he's
one of those dudes that he's cast in that movie
and he can only be that forever for me. Yeah,
all I think everyone in that movie, unfortunately, some of

(54:59):
the like the bitter ted Lavine's poor guy, that's who
you are, and he's had a good career, but like
it's he managed to overcome that. I think he did
one of the cop shows. Right, he was on Monk. Okay,
I never watched Monk. He's actually done. He's probably done
more than Monk. Oh, he was also on He was
just on The Alienist. He was one of the one
of the guys on The Alienist. I haven't seen that yet,

(55:21):
but I know your recommendation is what makes me want
to watch it. Who was he? And I read the book?
He was the He was like the I think he
had been at the retired police captain or something. He
was like he would always be driving around in a
carriage and pulling up and telling people what to do
and not to do. I gotta go back. He's got
the kind of a big blonde mustache, but that voice,

(55:42):
like when I first saw him in Monk. My mom
used to love Monks. It was always always be on
my class. But the first time he's like, it's like
voice comes out and you're like, I can't. You can't
be in Monk. You have people in your basement. Yeah,
you know what I didn't pick up on. This is
another that he was the son, right that the son

(56:03):
of whoever was living in the house. Oh yes or no, oh,
I don't think he was because he goes she had
a son. The son I think was the person in
the bathtub. No, that was her. She had like long hair.
She was an old lady in the bathroom. Did she Oh,
I don't know what was her name, Mrs I don't know.
I thought he was another guy that could also so

(56:24):
he was I think he was her son. She had
a mystery now because I don't know. I thought you
guys were to answer all these questions for me. No,
I don't know that. I never thought that, but it
was only because I had already And I don't know
if I got that from the book or if I
made it up. He worked with he worked for her
as a tailor. Well, I think it was her in
the bathtub because she had long otld lady gray hair

(56:45):
got that bathtub. Sorry, that was so out of left field. No,
I don't know the answer to that, and I should
because I'm the host. Benjamin Raell. I'm just gonna say
that every time I don't know something. My favorite is
any time I need to use a phone, which is
rare because we all have our own phones. But I
love to say, you see your murdering and made a

(57:07):
fucking cross stitch with that on it and posted it today.
May I use your phone? And and there's another quote
from that that she made a cross like a you know,
embroidering at Oh, I have to see it. I haven't
seen it yet. I know it's ridiculous, isn't it. Because
it's people who like they like true crime, but they
also like arts and crafts, so they're very high level.

(57:30):
But we heard recently this is a random aside. But
our listeners the thing they like, they like the podcast,
and the thing they like next is books and reading.
So it's just this perfect thing of smart people who
like doing crafty cool ship and reading and having good
ideas and being legitimately funny. Yeah, it's exciting. Hey everyone,

(57:55):
we took a little potty break and I think we
were talking about what's in the tub Mrs. Because Karen
is currently looking it up. We need to get to
the bottom of this. UM. I just clicked on whatever
the first UM website is, so it's it's definitely We're
gonna get mad when I hear her name, because I'm

(58:15):
gonna um it's presumably Mrs Lippman's body has been festering
in that old tub for the better part of two years.
That's right. Sorry, he's Mrs Lipman's son because he names

(58:36):
Jamie Gum James Gum Jamee Gum here, Yeah, you're right,
y j a m E. Okay, So who is he
to her? I think he was her employee? Okay, okay,
so he worked as a But then where's her sons?
Is it all right? Doug coming in with I'm finally

(58:58):
not alone? Uh? But also that's kind of the fascinating
thing is that, like he is, he's basically this weird
parasite that took over that house, killed her and then
did he dig that basement? Did it come with a dungeon?
And he's like, well this is perfect now? Uh So

(59:21):
one of the more more iconic parts. Well, first of all,
real quick, I do have a note here when they
first meet, when lecturing and Claric's first meat, it's even
creepier when he's smelling you know, edvy and skin cream
and he doesn't smell the perfume she's wearing. He smells
the perfume she usually wears, which adds a whole extra

(59:41):
layer of like what yeah, which is pretty great. Yes,
he's a super taster for sure. That doctor Electric literally
literally such a perfect like sequence there when they first
meet and then we get the well she goes to
the garage with a head in the jar. That's Benjamin
rasp that whole. My dream is to just go through

(01:00:04):
that the real life of that garage minus the head.
There's so many good so many good items, like things
with fringes on it in the back. You're like, whose
house was this? Like where's the stuff from? Have you
ever done that? Like an explored an abandoned place like that?
That's my dream. I go to a state sales a lot,
but they're not just breaking the old ladies houses a lot,

(01:00:24):
but I don't take anything. My brother and I used
to do that. My dad took pictures of like countrysides
when we were kids, so he would drag us out
to these old abandoned barns and things, and my brother
and I would like scavenge and run around. Check from
Orange County where everything is fucking just built up and
mapped out. You didn't have old barn We didn't have that. Unfortunately,

(01:00:44):
we had that in peddlement every because we also lived
five miles out of town, so it was like basically
every field as you walked down had a like a
chicken coop that was listing to one side because it
was so old. And I, yeah, we used to walk
through there and would just be old leftover farm equipment,
blades and hooks and ship and we just like walk

(01:01:05):
through and pick stuff up and down and walk away
where it's like now because somebody should have been taken
care of totally like dust and bird shit. And yeah,
Hannibal kills megs Um in a way, talks talks him
into it. Yeah, talks him into swallowing his tongue, which

(01:01:26):
is the first sort of little bit of magic in
their relationship in a weird way, because you get the
senses of you were like he's like protecting her. Yeah,
he's punishing megs for being ungentlemanly. He has he has
a moral code. It's just not standard, but it is there.
There are things he will not accept in things that

(01:01:48):
he you know, lines that he crossed. He like he
respects her from the beginning. I think, yes, how hard
would it be to go He understands how hard that
was for her, But also how how manipulative must he
be if all he has to do is whisper to
the cell next door and get someone to kill themselves.
I mean, yes, it's a psychopath, but is that in
the book? Like what he says, what he says to

(01:02:10):
Meg's yeah, not that I remember. I would say no,
but I'm not positive al right, because I always wanted
to know, like what is selector fucking saying? He says, swaller,
you're tongue in all these different accents. It tastes great,
just try and uh and so at the end of
fact one, of course it's funny too as a writer,
like you can like set your clock by it, Like

(01:02:32):
right at that thirty minute mark is when we like
our story is all set up and he is on
board to help her collect and catch buffalo bill, Yeah,
like from his dungeon cell. And that just sort of
sets the whole story emotion and then immediately smash cut
to American Girl by Tom Petty the best yeah, and
the best casting. When when in any movie have you

(01:02:54):
seen a girl that looks like Katherine Martin in that
way where it's just she is. It's not some starlet,
It's a real girl that you went to high school,
that you know, that's real. That's everything in that movie
is just so perfect. She pops up a lot, and
every time I see her, I just think, American girl,
don't get in the van's right, don't do it here,

(01:03:16):
you bid, don't help people? Well, I mean that's what
you guys preach, like over and over and over is
don't do that. Don't help the guy. Help not at night,
I know, not with a van. And that's like prime example,
when your cat's hungry upstairs, I know, and it's so creepy,
like you know, get in and like just a little

(01:03:37):
further back. You're not gonna be like, oh wait, this
is the point where I'm not gonna help you anymore.
You're not going to do that, like probably had an
inkling that she's getting like she does go yeah, okay, yeah,
that's right kind of last. And it's just so like
chilling and heartbreaking it is. And it is also anyone

(01:03:57):
that follows True Crime that saw that move for the
first time, it's just like, right now we're in a combination.
But this is Ted Bundy, like a textbook Ted Bundy.
How yeah, this is how he got all of those
women to get into his sailboat thing with broken arm,
and he's always helping him do something, yes, And then
you'd go, she'd go with him to the car and oh,

(01:04:17):
my sailboats. Actually I thought you knew, just come with
me to my house. That's where I need help. And
then and he was handsome, so he was able to
charm their way in handsome and like I think, low key,
you know, like he was. He was. It's that thing
where people think if you're around, uh, like a psychopath,
that you're going to get a vibe of psychopath, when

(01:04:38):
in fact, because there's brilliant psychopaths, they're never going to
give you that vibe. You will never see it coming
from mile away. That's how they do it. And we
were raised not to be rude and say, sure, oh funk,
this guy's can be a weird vibes. I'm gonna get
the funk out of here. Be like you know what,
never mind, Yeah, that's why you're doing a service like

(01:04:59):
hebre if you have to be. We did a stuff
you should Know episode on sociopaths and had people right in,
like sociopaths right in and say, please don't share this.
I'm a sociopath and um, I basically spend my days
pretending that I'm not, and I have to fake laugh

(01:05:21):
and I have to fake myself in meetings at work,
and I have a family and I've talked to my
son about it and like we're open about it, and
it's just fucking chilling to read. But also like it's
good that they know this and that they are dealing
with it. But it's just the majority aren't murderers too,
and different sociopathy and psychopathy or two different things, but

(01:05:45):
not It's there's a fine line, it's very close. It's
very close. Well. And also I think it's that if
you're a sociopath and you don't have essentially it's like
you don't have empathy, you don't have that connection, right,
so you are making a choice to care enough to
fake lass. Right. That's what's interesting to me is that's,
you know, the that's the divergence there is like who

(01:06:08):
raised you that you know to do that or you
want to do that? Those wanting to go I want
to do whatever I want. Yeah. Yeah. We had a
woman with a daughter that wrote in who was a
sociopath and it was just really interesting and fascinating and sad. Yeah,
they're born that way, right, you know? All right? That

(01:06:30):
the uh so Jodie Foster Clearese is getting tested through
the entire movie. I feel like it's it's just one
giant test after test after test from either Scott Glenn
Um And I feel like when I first used to
watch that movie, I didn't think he was taking care
of her enough. But now as an adult, I'm like

(01:06:51):
he was probably kind of doing the right thing, trying
to bring her along to be a good FED. I
didn't understand until that recently that he wasn't hitting on her,
Like I didn't get that there wasn't actually sexual undertones.
There weren't, right, No, I don't think so. But um, well,

(01:07:16):
for me, I always felt it was of course he
couldn't do that. So he's a FED. He's like the
person that can turn off his feelings and he has
to for the job and all that. But I do
feel like he picked her because he admired her. He
knew her story. He knows she's this fucking orphan that
that is a self made man, and he knows how
pick her. She's trying he and she challenged him in

(01:07:37):
his class too, Yes, and that's right at the beginning
you learned that. Yeah, he remembers her, and so he's
like this is he has to have a woman. There
probably aren't that many to choose from, but he knows
the work she's been doing. Yeah, I think it's that yeah, right,
And he sets her up by not telling her at
the very beginning, but he was like, you know, I

(01:07:58):
couldn't tell you that, right, which is right, exactly right,
but I didn't. I think it took me being an
adult watching this movie, even though I've seen it like
kind of probably every year since I've seen it, but
it kind of finally hit home, like he's probably doing
the right thing as a boss, yes, for sure, to
train her in the right way. Yeah, you don't get
trained by like what's what you want it to be, right,

(01:08:19):
It's like you have to go in there and do
the job that needs to get done and then learn something.
And I mean the way. I love the way when
she first goes to see him, like that whole conversation
she has with Barney where he's like calming her down,
and the more he tries to calm her down, the
crazer it makes me feel. It's like, how bad is
this going to be? That you are being this like

(01:08:39):
and I'm gonna watch you and everything's fine and we're fine,
but it's like, clearly nothing's fine. And if you're this like,
you have to be this calming. I just think that
there's that It's that like watching a person, which is
also a lot like life where we're students, but then
we actually have to go and like really live it
and do something real and it's not gonna who knows

(01:09:02):
what it's really going to be like, but you have
to go try. Yeah. Like the most lame, innocuous version
of that is you can take princh classes till the
cows come home, but until you go live in Paris
for a year. Uh. And I this is a coastal
elite talking. That was my reference. You really just got
to live in Paris. Oh my god, you love the
cheese is so much. But it's true you have to, like,

(01:09:25):
but you can't run around on Quantico for the rest
of your life. There's no like extra scenes in that movie.
And there is the scene where they run the drill
and go and uh, you know, swat into the room
and she's dead. Yeah she doesn't. I don't know that.
It doesn't look in the corner. Yeah there, And that's
not an extra scene. It's there to be like she's
not ready for you know that she still needs training,

(01:09:47):
but for some reason, she's being thrown into this other world.
And and that foreshadowing then when you when she when
he dips around that corner and she's like just stop
right there or whatever, you know that this is a
person who already you're dead starling like, yeah, this is
she's going to die. That's what you know for a fact.

(01:10:09):
Because if she didn't pass it when it was fake,
how in God's name now, I mean, how brilliant. It's
a perfect movie, it really is. There's not a wasted shot.
Everything is relevant. That score look so good. And every
time I hear American Girl, it's the only thing I think.

(01:10:30):
And that's a Tom Petty song. That's hard to do, Yeah,
it is to to overcome Tom Petty's Tom pettiness. And
I feel like there are directors who could have made
that night vision goggle scene um really cheesy, like it
could have kind of gone off the rails and turn
into it like an action movie. Her breathing like I

(01:10:51):
almost had a panic attack when I saw it in
the theater for the first time because it's so realistic.
When she's like real, yeah, have you ever warned those
night vision goggles. No, but I think there's a I
think there's an app you can simulate it. Yeah, you
have night vision camera on your phone. Really, that's frightening.

(01:11:12):
I know it's probably some kind of simulation because the
technology is not hopefully known nefarious. Nothing nefarious is happening there. Yeah,
my brother in laws in the Marines, and so he
let me play with them one night when I was
like seventeen, like walk around his neighborhood. It was pretty cool.
Was it crazy? Yeah, it's amazing. Could you see tons
of ship? Yeah? It mean looks just like the movie,
like it operates unavailable light though, so he can't be

(01:11:33):
in pitch darkness. It'll it just amplifies like a candle
light times or whatever thousand. So um, I guess I
don't know if that's a mistake in the movie or not,
because I don't think there's Maybe there's some light down there.
It's got to be something. Yeah, there's a little bit
alight from his weird sewing room. Oh, right under the door,
maybe with a Nazi blanket fast blanket. Again, I never

(01:11:54):
noticed that. It's so unnerving where you're just like, okay,
this is weird. I don't that he's putting on lipstick
and talking in this weird voice. I don't like that.
And then you're just like passes by a thing where
you're like, oh, this is not okay, Yeah, this isn't
I didn't notice. Another thing I didn't notice is that
he's wearing someone else's scalp when he was in front

(01:12:15):
of the camera. Oh is that right? Yeah, when the
penis tux when he's remember yeah, when he's putting the
eyes shadow on, there's piece of scalp, and his hair
is he's got full blonde hair. And I noticed that.
I was just assumed it was a wig. Nope, it's
there's a piece of fucking scalped. I have not noticed that. Believe, like,

(01:12:39):
you need to see this. Wow, that's good. I'd watched
this movie. My wife and I are obsessed with this
movie too. And it was on like whatever five or
six months ago, and I was in the bedroom and
she didn't know was on, and she was in the
kitchen doing something and that scene was on and I
paused it right at that moment and just sort of
left it on the TV. And she she walked in
and looked and it was just like, oh Jesus, how

(01:13:00):
cool it would be? Like, like, listen if someone is
at a dive bar with me and puts on that
song on the fucking jukebox, that creepy song, and he
to win awards. I can hear it. What song is that?
You Jean loves Jezebel. Yeah, it's something, it is. It's
an obscure. But you can't hear that song and immediately

(01:13:21):
Like sometimes I can hear American Girl and not think
of that. Yeah, but there's no way you can hear
that song without thinking of the penis stuck like one
of the creepier scenes. Well, now you know that he's
also wearing scalp. Yeah, well I gotta I gotta watch
it yet again. And he has he has the worst voice,
Like I'm my apologies to that actor, but it's like
his voice is so deep it feels like something's wrong. Yeah,

(01:13:44):
like there's a moth stuck. There's something in her throat. Well,
she breaks the case, that's right. She's the one that
discovers that in the picture, which is how we meet
up with the nerds, which I didn't There's more. They
were at her graduation. They're dating. Well, they're friends. I
don't know if they're dating, and I think they're friends.
I think they're good friends. She probably is dating Ardelia

(01:14:06):
Map her roommate's doing them. But still I love that
they're friends. Like she she's going to build a little
life there. And he was the only person who, like, yes,
came on to her, but not in a creepy way.
He was cute flirting. It was sweet flirting. Are you
flirting with my doctor? My friend Amie. I just should

(01:14:27):
say this. My friend Damie O'Neil truly has watched this
movie hundreds of times and knows every single word. And
one time she and I were in Wisconsin or something
and I went to see her band and then we
went back to my hotel room and it came on
and she had to say every line, like especially in
the pauses, and she turned to me and she was,

(01:14:48):
I'm so sorry, and I'm like, no, I love this.
It was hilarious. Yeah, And well he talks um speaking
of his voice earlier with the cou scene and everything,
but the first time we really get that voice is
you know, it puts solution in the basket, and the
way he's saying it is and the way he's sitting
on the edge of the whatever. It's just the fucking

(01:15:11):
creepiest thing ever talking about it, yeah, just referring to
her as it is just chilling, and then the screaming
at the end when he's mocking her screaming. Part of
it is look at this woman screaming. It's so chilling,
sity and the is that the part, oh yeah, because

(01:15:32):
that's the part where the basket goes back up and
she sees the fingernail blood, right, which is like, it's
those things he understood so much. That horror isn't like
a knife in the eye. It's like a bloody fingernails
sitting on the thing, which we had just heard of
that when they were doing the like her nails, something
is under her nail. This is city, this is city.

(01:15:54):
That singernail well, but also like she's I get it,
that's chilling to see the fingernails because she knows other
women have been there, but like she knew what was
going to end well anyway, right, I guess that was
the straw. It was escape. Yeah, there's no escape. That
was when she truly realized other people have not escaped
from the same well. And if she was very sweet

(01:16:14):
to take that dog at the end too. I know
I loved it unless she went home in like strangles
the ultimate revenge. But I do love that that. Uh.
I love that she was down in that well, there
was no escape, there's a bloody fair and she still
made a plan. She didn't funk around. It was like
Katherine Martin was nailed it in that way. We're just like,

(01:16:35):
I'm still going to do something if I have to
be down here and it's this bad. And then it
kind of worked like that was a big you know,
so good every scraps asshole. So they wind up in
the third act lectures in that amazing set that they built,
that temporary cage which makes no sense, makes no starting question,

(01:16:59):
um with so many, so many weapons, possible weapons. Yeah,
it's like I saw that. Have you ever been to
the Museum of Moving Image in Queens, New York or
it is it's great. Well they went to see a
Madman exhibit a few years ago there, but they had
a they had all the original artistic drawings of that
set for the set design, and they had the shot

(01:17:21):
the drawing, the like the penciling of him like you know,
like with angel wings splayed up, which also makes no
sense whatsoever that he could have gotten him up there.
But you just don't even question that kind of ship
because it looks amazing. And I do think it was
from the book from what I remember. I could be wrong,
but I feel like that whole thing of we had

(01:17:42):
to we were moving him from here to there, we
have to stop here, we have to do a makeshift,
you know, swat team style keyge or whatever. Um I'm
pretty sure which they've far heard from the local zoo.
Presumably you know a human cage you could rent it
from from. Let's give him some privacy when he's on

(01:18:02):
the toilet, think that it's it's only decent humanity. That
whole sequence is great, though. The only thing that kind
of took me out of the movie is when Chris
Isaac weirdly shows up. Oh ship, how did I? Oh
my god, that's Chris Isaac. Yes, it's Chris Isaac. Inexplicably
it's Chris. It's Chris Isaac, who's like, I'm a huge

(01:18:23):
musician star at the time, but I feel like I
want to dip my tone into acting. Oh here, I
get three lines in this movie. It's not even a
wrong com which would make sense for Chris Isaac. Yeah,
he must have been friends with Jonathan Demi. I assume so,
because Demi puts a lot of his old pals like
in his movies. He also looks a lot like what's
the our villain? Who's the leader of the psychiatric hospital? Oh?

(01:18:45):
Dr Chilton? Yeah, I think they look too similar to
be together, and like personally I was. I saw his
face and it's really similar. Oh that's true, similar to
who doctor Dr Chilton. Oh yeah, there's like fleshy angles
and stuff. I'msulting, sorry, Chris, I like, I love you. Actually.
My friend Brent uh friend is very generous, a guy
that used to drink at the same bar we used

(01:19:06):
to drink at, who was a really close friend of mine.
He was like there was stand up comics, there was
Groundlings people, and there was actors, gang people who would
all go to this bar of Felini's in the nineties.
It's very fun. Brent is one of those um Swat
team guys. He's the kind of like he's the one
that's like it's going back down, Like he's the elevator,

(01:19:27):
younger looking guy that looks a little bit like you
shouldn't be involved in Yes, the one who walks her,
who takes her up initially holy ship. And so that
took me out of it because I was so excited
by the time we got to that point in the movie.
I was like, this is the best movie ever made.
And then Brent shows up. You get to be in
the best movie ever made a significant part and yeah, yeah,

(01:19:50):
that is weird. Uh So I didn't notice until and
I've seen this movie so many times, but Lecture kills
fucking seven people who in the first hour that he
gets out of that kills two cops, four and the
ambulance because they say they found the ambulance and and
so whoever's recapping and they said, and a tourist, right,

(01:20:14):
throw that in on the phone, because seven people in
an hour outfit. As soon as he's out with that
brilliant plan with the with the pin clip or whatever
without so creepy slipping that thing into his mouth. Yeah,
oh my god, it just has that shot at the
pen and you see him looking at it. This is
not going to end well for anyone. Uh And then
the end that that cross cutting sequence at the end

(01:20:36):
of the movie, Um, is so brilliantly played out. I
don't know why this didn't win Best Editing because it
was just such a clever bit of misdirection. You don't
I don't know what's going on, which part because you
they're the swat team is going in and she's like
dang dong, gorgeous and fresh off Frederica Bimble's house. Right,

(01:20:58):
she was like basically met the friend the films creeps polaroids,
and she thinks that they're a couple states over catching
the guy. It's only seems where he's still out here.
He's not out here anymore, right, they are taking care
of it. Yeah, but she, because she's clearly starling, starts
to sniff it out, and he was, of course the

(01:21:18):
classic line she did great, size fourteen, roomy. Yeah uh.
And then the other creepy part of that scene is
went the way he drops those business cards, lets them
fall away in his hands, and then he like yeah,
he giggles, and but he goes sideways like hip first

(01:21:39):
at the door, which is a specific move. Not right,
whatever you just did, it looks like you made yourself
look like a snake. You're the two human being on
the planet. And then we pass up. We'll first we
pass over the sewing stuff and there's a fucking death's
head moth creeping on over them, and that's her moment
of because this guy is not right. Clearly there's something
wrong this it When she comes full circle, she's being

(01:22:03):
she's already being just normal quan asking question. Then she
use your phone please. She just perfectly does it the
way you would do it if you were face to
face with a fucking serious try and keep a lid
on it phone, and you get the feeling because she's
so good, she's probably right as she walks in, like

(01:22:23):
this feels like a kill house. Yeah, but they're giving
him in another state, but this feels like a kill house.
That design is fucking a made Like I feel like
in another life I'm supposed to be a set designer
because I'm always like the pan of eggs that's like
on the stove and just says weird little touches of clearly,
this is someone else's house that hasn't been lived in

(01:22:44):
or walked in, lean clean, and it's like, yeah, it's
quiet and still compared to what's going on downstairs, it's
just so great. And he's just he's almost unpeeling his
own wrapper because she's just asking regular questions. But then
he's well, wait, we're starting. It was a great where
she he's doing things where she's like wait, why do

(01:23:05):
you yeah, and he keeps, you know, like asking this
is the way that catch that Yeah, I think yes. Well,
and because of the misdirection and they're breaking into the
wrong house, like you know, as a viewer, she's all alone,
and that's just such a like a vulnerable feeling as
a as an audience member to know that this rookie

(01:23:27):
student is in front of like the worst serial killer
ever and she's got no backup, like nobody's coming, nobody's coming. Also,
I think that the going into Frederica Demmel's room scene
is one of my favorite scenes of any movie because
she is just trying to collect information. She doesn't know,

(01:23:47):
she doesn't have a plan, and she kind of goes
up and is looking around and it's this thing of
like it's it's that thing of like why women should
be cops. It's like when you go into another woman's
room where you know where her underpants Pollard's or hidden,
you know where you hit your ship, you know what's
off in what stage because you would never leave your
ship that way exactly, and the like all of those

(01:24:09):
things that they they she I think she even follows
the cat up. It's like she's cat me out from
her room. The cats like coming to this fucking so
they like there are things there that they did that.
It's like it's not all just horror, it's not all
just action. It's not there's just this. There's that kind
of how how it is. I think when people work

(01:24:31):
on things and it's like you don't really know why
you turn to left and went into that room, the
cat me out or whatever, but suddenly you're here and
and oh, she has the same jewelry box I had.
Why has this edge pulled? And like that moment where
she pulls the top out of that jewelry box was
like as a girl is like thrilling. It's like, yes,
this is exactly how it would be. This is the

(01:24:53):
realness of it. Well, it's very like a twin peaks
the moment I think too or I don't know which
came her. Probably twin peaks, right, I don't know. Um,
they are actually kind of a right around the same
time because it was like early college for me. Yeah,
like the secrets that women keep, the secret that girls keep.
That's right, dude, would not have he would have walked

(01:25:15):
in that room and like nothing to see here, yeah right,
just like cleared a shelf with his arm and then
walk the funk up and also farted and then left
looking around making sure the dad's still outside. Pushing back
the dresses in the closet, and the diamond pattern was
also like chilling. Yeah. Uh. And then we get the

(01:25:37):
great night vision scene where you know that the creepiest
it ever is when he's reaching out to her and
just kind of like sucking with her and she can
feel him like you can since after she's told Katherine
like it's all good, yeah, and were yelling it loud
enough their way like that's so real, not like I'm
so glad you're here. It's like it is so real, Sammy, Yeah,

(01:26:01):
I don't want to sit tight. Yeah yeah, while this
you know, twenty one year old who I've never met
with a little gun and you don't know how crazy
she's like he's a psycho. You don't all go after him. Also,
the way she was trying to do like form perfect,
tepping her head into the well to talk to her
shutting all those doors like she's she's her training is

(01:26:22):
like kicking at this point. But it's the creepiest training
room she's ever been, Like, it's beyond horrifying. Yeah. And
then every room she goes into, because every room she
goes into is answers, and it's got to be so
exciting to be like, and this is where he's been
keeping them, this is you know what he's doing with them,
This is how he got to this. You know, it's

(01:26:43):
like every room it's it's like a escape rooms and
so you know, filled with fucking moms. Right, and just
don't die because now you have the answers. If you
just don't die, you can actually get this guy right
or I'm going to be in that king well with
Catherine yah um. And I think now that we talked

(01:27:05):
about the cat part, now I have that saying where
it's like that is a little bit of the laced
through intuition magic thing that got laid in a little
bit where it's in the instincts so that when she
hears his the gun cock, she has that you know
what I mean, She's she trusts herself because she's already
been right, She's already proven it right where it's like,

(01:27:27):
however you get to the answer, You got to the answer,
so trust yourself that you're right, and she blows his
ass away, destroys his whole situation the way he dies.
What a beautiful death creep perfect, Yeah, and he doesn't
you know, it's not the trope thing where he comes
back to life, which was great, which is so cool

(01:27:50):
that training kicking in, Yeah, because now she's like, oh,
I get why you do this, I get what you
shut all the doors. I get it. And we didn't
even talk about the Senator scene, which is one of
the eight scenes that talk about art direction building that
fucking furniture dolly that it's so iconic. Have you seen
there's a thing where they test out all the masks there.

(01:28:12):
There's lots of choices of what what kind of hockey
mask or like what kind of mask they were one
to use, and it's just funny. It's like Anthony Hopkins
with a different What I do love about that scene
is that he is in this humiliating, powerless position and
the scene ends with him having all the power despite that,
and it's just such a testament to him and his

(01:28:33):
acting in the script and it's really cool and like
his as doctor elector, it's all about his words, the
way he uses words like he just destroys her. Yeah,
and Trax Island, you will be free to walk supervise
uh and then the great Danium at the end with

(01:28:55):
um with him. You know you're rooting for Hannibal to
fucking eat Chilled. And it's some bit of magic that
Demmy pulls where you're like, yeah, go kill and eat
that guy. We know why. We couldn't figure out why
he was there, like children there. I think he was
just vacation. He's getting away a weird trip, okay, he

(01:29:16):
and maybe he I think he said something to the
guy when he gets off the plane that maybe said
like he was there for a conference or something like that,
but I didn't catch it, like a psychi psychiatrist conference, yeah,
or which was in Brazil, I guess, or something in Cuba.
You didn't know where that was it may say, I'm
not even sure or how Hannibal ends up calling this
random phone graduation Yeah sure, yeah, that pay phone that's

(01:29:42):
right by the graduation every year. But that's a great
moment though, when he says, you know, the world's more
interesting with you in it. And that's the nature of
their relationship, Like he doesn't want to kill her full
father daughtery well, it's like he's he makes choices about
who he kills, so there's almost you almost respect. He's
just not some berserking animal. He's like gentlemen. And he

(01:30:05):
won't take he won't take credit for killing Hester Moffett, right,
like he doesn't want these I just about that. Yeah,
it's a really it's not about that. My favorite of
all the when I was looking through the gifts, um,
and there's some great ones. There's one that somebody made

(01:30:26):
where when it's the reveal of when that that wall
ends and you can see his cell, they put all
these like hot topics posters behind him, so like right
behind him there's a Hello Kiddy poster. It's so hilarious,
Like every inch of his walls are covered with strips,
not posters. People are the best sometimes it's great, the best. Um.

(01:30:47):
And that's the end of the movie. You know that
he's gonna and she says, you know, you know, I
can't promise you that, Like he knows that she's going
to come after him. She knows that. But that's like
part of the like the beautiful dance that he creates
from the beginning, just so great. All right, we finished
with a couple of quick things. What Ebert said this

(01:31:07):
movie is a complete disappointment. I always like to go
back and see what Roger Ebert thought. Four stars of
course for this. The secret of Silence is that it
doesn't start with a cannibal. It arrives at him through
the eyes and minds of a young woman. The popularity
of Jonathan Demi's movie is likely to last as long

(01:31:27):
as there is a market for being scared Amen. But
Silence of the Lambs is not merely a thrill show.
It is also about two of the most memorable characters
in movie history, Clarice Starling and Hannibal Lecture, and their strange,
strained relationship. Yeah, and then five questions. First movie you
remember seeing in the theater? Back to the Future, Good

(01:31:50):
Pet's Dragon. It's probably five, right or really young Disney.
I think I was. I think it was. I was.
Finally went Back to the Future came out and it
was just like, well, fuck, my life is this is it? Yeah?
That's crazy. That's a good first one, first R rated movie.

(01:32:11):
I think you already said Little Darlings. Yeah, um, oh god,
I don't know what year came out. I want to.
We just watched so much ship um that I can remember.
What's the one with the killer toy. Child's Play Yeah,
that's a terrible movie to see as a child was

(01:32:33):
my favorite. Yeah. Yeah, this is all explaining a lot,
literally no supervision. I just want to Little Darlings and
Child's Play. Yes, will you walk out of a bad movie? Hell? Yes.
I stormed out of Van helsing because also I saw
at the Vista, and you know, sometimes the Vista, when

(01:32:53):
they get it right, it's perfect. But in this because
there was so much glingling sword fucking play, it was
like seizure town. It was. It was like my ear
drums were like, please get us out of here. And
I had told I was with my boyfriend at the
time and my other friend and I kept going, it's
too loud, I can't and I kept saying they were
like yeah, yeah, yeah, And I just fucking got up

(01:33:16):
and left and drove home. I was like, get home
on your own. I'm so livid because it was it
was a boring movie anyway that it was like it
was physically painful to watch. Yeah, I never saw that,
but my friend Scottie, who's a DP said he had
a foreword review Van Helsing Van Horrible, which we still
laugh at today for some reason. Right, well, you walk out,

(01:33:39):
I will. But I also it's really hard to get
me to go see a movie in the theater. I
really don't enjoy it, partly because of the sound. I have,
like a really sensitive hearing. I think the only movie
I've seen with you is the Mad Max movie recently,
which is one of the only movies I've seen in
a theater in five Yeah, I had. I was in
my seat with ship in my ears, but I was
enjoying it, so I stayed, you should it. You know,

(01:34:00):
they make earplugs for bands that oh they fit you
specifically right well, they fit you, but they also allow
in the right sounds, so it's not just like sticking
your fingers in your ears. They're okay, they work, are
highly sensitive. We'll get you some here, not about Murder
that I'm that uh alright. Number four I tailored to

(01:34:25):
the guests, so right here I have who plays Karen
and Georgia and the my favorite murder biopic I think
it's a Gilmer girls, right, that's about to go. Well,
Jodie Foster could come back. Oh my god, that she
just switches wigs and it's straight into camera. I'll stand here,

(01:34:47):
stand here, and she moves her body. It's not even
I guess if they can do that with the fucking
Winkle Boss Twins double up Army Hammer and they can
double up Jodie Foster. That's it. That's our answer, Jo.
You can't think of anybody. And then finally, movie going
one on one? What's your what's your jam at the movies?
Where do you sit? What do you get? Mine? Is?

(01:35:09):
I love the arc Light. I'm I hope it's not
really scientologists based because a theory, now that's a theory
that it's basically a company that's funded by or Scientology
makes money. But I don't care because normal movie theaters
is just the worst people. It's like people go to
check their phones these days. It's everyone's going so ill

(01:35:31):
mannered the movie theater. So I love the arc Light
because they take it seriously. They take it's cushy. Everybody
is there to actually do the thing that you're supposed
to be doing. You know, people don't like talk or
funk around um, always on the aisle usually if you
are facing if I'm the screen looking up right hand side,
like halfway up, Um, but all the way out to

(01:35:54):
the edge. Huh yeah, because you need to pepe, or
because I don't want to get out of there. I
don't want involved. The ideas when you stand and have
to walk down that row at the end and you
kind of bounce against everything. I just always like, what
if something happened, like just I just want to get out. Well,
it is funny as like as I get older. Uh,

(01:36:15):
group of his Wint and saw Beck in Atlanta recently
at this place called the Tabernacle, which has this old
church that has three really steep balconies. We're on the
very last row, and young Chuck would have just been like,
yeah whatever, like these seats are shitty. Old Chuck was like,
we're gonna die if anything happens in here, if there's
a fire, if there's if things start happening. To the

(01:36:37):
many reasons I can't go to the movies, I'm yeah,
we're dead. We would happened right now, Yeah, so many
bad things. Yeah, um, what do you eat? Oh? I like, well,
if I'm really going to go for it, I'll get
popcorn and then put Eminem's into it. I was gonna says, okay,
junior mints, and then popcorn is a nice mixed to
you mixed junior mints in. I'll put them in my

(01:36:58):
hand together because they'll melt other. Right, some pop wart
good together. Yeah, that's what Lauren Cook does. Oh oh
my god, that's what friends and a can of wine
that I bring in my person. Yeah. They have foods
and fucking movies. I don't. I haven't smoke pot so
I can't like get high. I mean, that's the other
reason to go to the Arc Light. As you just
drive up to the roof, get your get done whatever

(01:37:21):
you choose to get done in your Is there a
secret bar, wasn't. I don't live her anymore, so I
don't know what's going on. They built arc like like
right before I left. Oh yeah, but they have They
have places in Atlanta that have just regular theaters where
you can buy beer and wine. Their screenings at the

(01:37:41):
Arc Light where you can do that. Yeah screen yeah, yeah, yeah.
They make people for certain It's like there for certain
shows they're like this one, they will be drinking. Yeah, yeah,
but I have to peece so much when I drink,
so I just couldn't do it because I don't want
to miss much. We're a diaper and that's the perfect
way to end this one. Ladies so much fun, all right, everybody.

(01:38:14):
I hope you enjoyed that as much as I did.
I felt like we could have talked for hours about everything. Um.
I was actually a little nervous going into this one
because I'm such a big fans of theirs, and sometimes
when you meet people you're a big fan of and
they aren't, they don't live up in real life like
you want, it's a big disappointment. So I rolled the
dice and I am happy to report that Karen and

(01:38:35):
Georgia are great. They are lovely, lovely human beings, and
they're funny and warm and generous. And I could not
have been more thrilled afterwards to know that they're just great,
great ladies in real life. So, um, that was wonderful.
I just really enjoy talking with them about Silence of
the Lambs. And you can find my favorite murder just anywhere.

(01:38:59):
They're touring the world. They are all over the internet,
all over iTunes. Uh, there's absolutely dominating the podcast industry,
which is so wonderful. And you can find Karen at
Karen Killed Gareff That is k A r E n
k I l g A r I f F. On Twitter.
For Georgia, you can follow Georgia at g hard Stark

(01:39:22):
the letter g h A r D s t A
r K and they both have quite the Twitter following.
In are both hysterical uh and good Twitter followers and
and find them on all the social media. Is that
my favorite murder too. There are all kinds of great
fan clubs for the Murderingos and it's a very active
page because they have great, great fans. So hopefully I'll

(01:39:43):
be on stage with them this fall in Atlanta. I'm
gonna remind them about that offer. And I hope you
enjoyed that one, So thanks for listening. I hope you
enjoyed it. And until next time, remember, never ever ever
get in that van. Don't do it. Movie Crush is produced, engineered, edited,

(01:40:12):
and soundtracked by Noel Brown and Ramsay Hunt at how
Stuff Work Studios, Pont City Market, Atlanta, Georgia,

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}My Favorite Murder on The Silence of the Lambs