August 8, 2025 • 43 mins
If you want to build a theme park, there are some big questions to answer. Is it really a theme park, or is it an amusement park? (There’s a difference!) Also, how many Santa Clauses should you have? (Important.) And what do you need to do to be more eccentric than Walt Disney? (Start by picking a favorite juice, and then act irrationally when people don’t want to drink it.) Featuring author David Younger and Theme Park Insider's Robert Niles.
This episode originally aired on September 6, 2017.
Got a question you’d like us to answer? A rabbit hole you think we should explore? Email higeniuses@gmail.com or leave us a message at (302) 405-5925.
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Photo by Sung Jin Cho via Unsplash. Thanks, Sung Jin!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Guess what, Mango, what's that will? I'm going to Dollywood?
Speaker 2 (00:05):
You what?
Speaker 1 (00:06):
I'm going to Dollywood. Our family was at this event
last week and we won a trip to freaking Dollywood.
I feel like that Powerball winner from last week. And
I do need to warn you about this. I may
never come back to work again, so.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
You've got to tell me what happens in Dollywood.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
I actually have no idea. That's part of why I'm
so excited. I mean, of course I've heard of it.
I grew up a few hours away from it, but
you know, other than knowing that one of the co
owners is Dolly Parton and she's great, and that it's
in this really pretty area of Tennessee, I know nothing
about it. And I'm actually intentionally avoiding any information about
it because I want to just show up and be
(00:40):
completely surprised.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
Well, I do have one spoiler for you, and this
is something I remember from reading about it a long
time ago. In the Chasing Rainbow section, they have this
autograph picture from Jonathan Taylor Thomas, and I think you
read something like you are so very special.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
Oh how sweet?
Speaker 4 (00:58):
I know.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
I love that he gave her that affirmation, but I
definitely want you to report back. I want to hear
what your kids think about it.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
I definitely will. But winning this trip felt like a
sign to me, you know that it was time to
do this episode on the history and philosophy of theme parks.
And we've been talking about doing this for a while now,
so let's get started. Hey, their podcast listeners, welcome to
(01:34):
Part Time Genius. I'm Will Pearson and as always I'm
joined by my good friend Mangesha Ticketter and the man
making funny faces, that is through the soundproof glasses, our
friend and producer Tristan McNeil. And today we're talking theme parks,
all the science and imagination and you know, even the
philosophy that goes into designing and building and running theme parks.
So we thought it'd be fun to dig into some
(01:55):
of the deep thinking behind one of the world's favorite
forms of escapism. We've also got some great guests on
the line to help us talk about that. Now, who's
joining us today?
Speaker 3 (02:03):
Mego, yeah, Today we'll be talking to David Younger, author
of the new book Theme Park Design and the Art
of the Entertainment. David's guide covers every aspect of the
theme park industry, including interviews with theme park legends and
Disney imagineers. We'll also be talking with a couple of
theme park enthusias who've made it their life's work to
chronicle all the going ons at their favorite parks.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
Very cool, all right, So we're going to dive in
in just a minute. But before we do that, we've
heard from so many of you by email or on
Facebook or Twitter, and even on our twenty four to
seven Fact hotline, and many of you have asked if
you can play one of our ridiculous quizzes. So here's
what we want you to do. Email us at Part
Time Genius at HowStuffWorks dot com or call us on
the Fact Hotline one eight four four pt Genius and
(02:45):
tell us why we should have you on to play
a quiz. Now, be sure to tell us something interesting,
of course, a true interesting fact about yourself, and maybe,
just maybe we'll have you on the show to play sometime.
All right, So before we get into the exhilarating rides,
designs and all that good stuff, we probably need to
start out by talking a little semantics.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
Semantics, you want to take this to the least fun
place possible.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
Yeah, I know, I know, but there is an important
distinction we should make about today's topic. So if you
were to ask somebody the difference between an amusement park
and a theme park, you know, they might think it's
a trick questions. I mean, you know, both kinds of
parks are high energy, they're family friendly. You've got all
the mechanical rides, the colorful designs, the tasty junk food,
which is probably my favorite part. You know, but there's
(03:31):
a very real difference between say, a seaside amusement park
like a Coney Island, and a full blown theme park
like Universal Studios or Lego Land.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
Sure, and I guess by the same token. Amusement parks
can contain individual rides or areas that are themed to something.
So if you think about something like six Flags in
their parks, they all have a bunch of un themed
roller coasters and carnival type rides, But then there are
all those attractions from like Looney Tunes or DC Comics,
So there's some crossover here and there.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
Yeah, that's that's true. But you know, for the most part,
it's enough to know that the goal of an amusement
park is to, you know, get people a thrill more
or less through random assortments of exciting rides, And you know,
the aim of a theme park, on the other hand,
is to really immerse people in this elaborate storytelling experience,
and that just happens to use exciting rides as a
way of telling these stories.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
So it was interesting to me in doing research for
this episode, that every aspect of a theme park, or
at least a really good one, is meticulously crafted to
support the park's theme. So not just like the architecture,
but things like the smells in the air, the music
being played, the characters of course, and employees' uniforms, but landscaping,
(04:40):
the color of the paint, the style of the benches,
even the trash cans. Like everything you see or hear
or smell or touch like it's carefully selected, all for
the story that's being told, which just seems like such
a lofty goal for someplace where kids are like throwing
tantrums and parents are angry that they're spending nine dollars
for a soda.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
Yeah no, I can't wait to be angry at Dollywood.
A lot of us tend to associate these with, you know,
crass commercialism, or think of them as a low brow
or mindless form of entertainment. But that's something we'll see
a lot today, is that there's more substance at the
core of these theme parks than most of us give
them credit for.
Speaker 3 (05:14):
And speaking of credit, I do want to take a
minute upfront to recognize Frederick Thompson, the inventor of the
world's first theme attraction and a true theme park pioneer.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
All right, So just to be sure we're not talking
the same Fred Thompson, who is the politician and the actor, right.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
I hope that would have been awesome, like talking about
politician Fred Thompson and then dropping the line like, oh yeah,
and he was a theme park pioneer.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
Right right, all right. We'll have a separate episode on
that Fred Thompson one day, but for this episode, this
seems like a good place to start tell us more
about him.
Speaker 3 (05:42):
Yeah, Thompson designed the first of what we'd categorized today
as a dark ride, but he hasn't gotten nearly as
much attention as some of the other theme park titans
we'll talk about today.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
And for any listeners who aren't up on their theme
park lingo, we should note that a dark ride is
basically just an indoor ride where a vehicle is guided
along this track and you know, you go from one
set to another. So you know, think Mister Toad's Wild
Ride at Disneyland, or Haunted Mansion, or you know, even
the generic kind of haunted house that you would go
through if you were at an amusement park exactly.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
And Thompson really helped develop this genre of rides. He
was an architect who designed buildings for county fairs and
public exhibitions, and he really wanted to create a ride
that could dazzle the audience's senses and help them forget
about their everyday worries. So in nineteen oh one, using
copious amounts of plaster and modern advances like electric machinery
and light bulbs, Thompson premiered his masterpiece, which he dubbed
(06:34):
a Trip to the Moon.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
And you were saying, you know, this was nineteen oh one,
so you know, if you think about the timing there,
not only have we not made it to the moon yet,
but even the Wright brothers, you know, their first man
flight was still a couple years off. So this whole premise,
this whole thing would have been complete science fiction at that.
Speaker 3 (06:51):
Point totally, and Thompson chose this theme wisely, which is
why he was fine forking over eighty five thousand dollars
to build the attraction, which by the way, is more
than two million dollars in today's money.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
Wow, God, that is so pricey, all right, So what
exactly did you get for that kind of cash?
Speaker 3 (07:05):
Well, the main part of the ride was a thirty
passenger airship that was suspended from the ceiling by steel cables,
and you can find pictures of it online. It basically
looks like a huge canoe with these wide ore like wings,
and the wings were controlled by this pulley system that
let the ship rock back and forth. And they're also
these like small fans that provide the sensation of wind
rushing by. Like, it was great the feeling of soaring
(07:27):
in this flying machine. And it's all enhanced by sound
effects and hundreds of tiny lights, and there's like a
painted canvas backdrop. It's amazing, especially for the time, and
and it wasn't just that. Like the people rise beyond
the Earth's atmosphere all the way to the moon, and
then when the ship reaches its destination, passengers disembark and
(07:48):
entered this lunar cavern and it's made of plaster, where,
of course they meet a race of moon people called
the Selenite.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
Right of course. So it was pretty much the world's
first flight simulator, right and it had, of course this
added dose of sci fi whimsy. I kind of wish
I could go back and ride this kind of thing
and see how people would have responded to it initially.
Speaker 3 (08:07):
Yeah, and more than that, he was a visionary, so
he included a gift shop where visitors could eat green
moon cheese.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
Of course. All right, so Frederick Thompson certainly played a
part in the evolution of amusement parks and that transition
into two theme parks. And you know, but while we're
on the subject of credit, we do have to get
this one out of the way. It would definitely be
impossible to talk about theme parks without referencing their patron saint,
and that's Walter Elias Disney, or Uncle Walt, as he's
(08:32):
known to those who've drunk the kool aid.
Speaker 4 (08:34):
You know.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
But no matter what you think of Disney Parks or
the behemoth parent company that they belonged to, there's really
no denying that the man behind the mouse revolutionized the
entertainment industry and of course paved the way for modern
theme parks as we know them.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
Absolutely, Disney was responsible for so many technical innovations that
became staples of the industry. I mean the biggest is
the audio animatronics, those lifelike robot characters that you see
at par So the Caribbean and the Enchanted Tiki Room.
But you know, if we really want to give proper credit,
we should also mention the creator of the world's first
theme park, which you know, a contrary to popular belief,
(09:10):
was not Walt Disney.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
Yeah, I was reading about that too, So this honor
actually belongs to a guy named Lewis Coke. He was
this industrialist and he had made it his retirement project
to create the first ever theme park. Now, you lived
near a tiny town called Santa Claus, Indiana. I know
we've talked about Santa Claus, Indiana before, but as you
can imagine, children from all of the world would visit
(09:32):
the town in hopes of meeting Santa. Of course, they
then only leave disappointed when they discovered old Saint Nick
did not, in fact, spend his off season in the
rural Midwest for some reason.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
He doesn't vacation in the Midwest. No, I don't think so,
which is you know that's funny, Like I had heard
of Santa claus Land, and I had heard of Santa
claus Indiana, but I never knew the two were connected.
But I'm curious, Like, I don't understand why parents would
make that trek. It seems crazy.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
Well either way, Lewis Coke was the father of nine,
so the thought of all those appointed kids coming to
town it really got to him. He'd always wanted to
build an amusement park, and so in nineteen forty six,
this was nine years before Disneyland would open to the public,
Coke introduce the world to Santa claus Land.
Speaker 3 (10:13):
I love that the first theme park has like the
narrowest theme imaginable.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
Yeah, I'd say it was pretty on the nose as
a theme, but still groundbreaking as a concept. I mean,
there had been tons of amusement parks before, but nothing
quite like Santa claus.
Speaker 3 (10:27):
Land, which also seems a little crazy because the concept
of like public amusement like that goes back all the
way to the Renaissance. That's when a pleasure gardens started
popping up on the grounds of English inns and taverns.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
Yeah, but you know, somehow an amusement park with a
dedicated theme had it really had never been done before,
and thankfully the idea proved a huge hit with the public,
and the Koch family was able to expand the park's
theme in the nineteen eighties, and this allowed them to
include areas themed around other holidays, so not just Christmas,
but Thanksgiving, Halloween, fourth of July. It's it's like such
(10:58):
a strange place, to be honest with you. But seventy
one years later the park is still open for business
than now it goes by the more inclusive name Holiday World.
Speaker 3 (11:08):
I like that Holiday World. It's so much smarter than
like just hanging out with Santa, which you can do
at any local mall. By the way, speaking of holidays,
do you know that John Dee Rockefeller used to celebrate
a personal holiday every year called job Day. It was
the anniversary of the day he got his first job
at sixteen, and he considered it way more important than
any other day in his calendar.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
Aw Well, I don't think I've seen any job Day
land theme parks, but I agree with you, it's better
to have a broad and more universal concept. And you know,
in thinking about all of this, I'm really curious about
the decision making that goes into planning a theme park, Like,
you know, how do you settle on a theme or
decide what kind of attraction to use for any of
these given concepts.
Speaker 3 (11:47):
Well, how about we got David Younger on the line
and see if you can walk us through that.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
Okay, Mangos. So a few weeks ago we did an
episode on World Records, and I'm not sure if Guinness
keeps up with a world record on the person who
has interviewed the most theme park designers in the world,
but if they did, I'm pretty sure we may be
talking to the person who would take that crown. He's
the author of really the the Ultimate Guide on designing
(12:19):
theme Parks. He spoke to thousands of designers, engineers, creatives
and others during the project, and the book is called
Theme Park Design and the Art of Themed Entertainment. So,
David Younger, welcome to part time Genius.
Speaker 5 (12:32):
Thank you very much for having me.
Speaker 3 (12:34):
So, David, I've read this was a massive project and
it took four years to complete. How did theme park
design become a passion of yours.
Speaker 5 (12:41):
Well, really, for me, it's been something that I've been
interested in ever since I was a kid. It's like
I was the kid that was playing roller coaster Tycoon
non stop, designing all the different things. And so I
knew I wanted to go.
Speaker 4 (12:52):
Into tempik design.
Speaker 5 (12:54):
The only trouble was that there are design courses, or
they weren't at the time. And so I went into film, said,
and I realized that you can get hundreds of books
on stream writing and directing and editing for film, but
nothing existed for themepuchs. So I kind of realized if
I wanted to learn this myself, and I wanted to
buy this book even though it didn't exist, I thought
(13:15):
I'd have to write it myself.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
Well that's terrific. Now, in the book, you talk about
three types of theme park guests and describe them as
world travelers, character huggers, and thrill seekers. And I was
curious to talk first about that that first group. These
world travelers. Now, these are the ones that you describe
as liking to be transported to another world that feels
so convincing that you almost believe you're really there. And
(13:39):
I'm curious for you, you know what parks stand out
as the best in the world at doing exactly that.
Speaker 5 (13:45):
Well, if you look at the different themepaxs around the world,
there are actually a number of different styles of design
that the theme park's use. And the best way of
thinking about this is to compare Epicot, for example, to
The Magic Kingdom, where at the Magic Kingdom you're asked
to kind of buy into this idea that you really
are in the American West, or you really are in
a fairytale village. Whereas you compare that to Epcot, where
(14:07):
you'll go on something alike the Universe of Energy, which
is where you're not really in any time or place,
you're just being kind of tort about a tort about energy.
Speaker 4 (14:17):
And these parks like the Magic.
Speaker 5 (14:19):
Kingdom that tried to convince you that you're really in
another entire another time and place. It's called new traditional
style parks, and really the best at that is definitely
going to be Disney. I mean, theyu of the people
that invented it back in the nineteen fifties and they're
still doing it absolutely brilliantly today. But as well as that,
Universal Studios it was kind of going for a post
(14:41):
modern type park in the nineteen eighties and nineteen nineties.
Whatever Harry Potter open, They're going for this place you
in the world.
Speaker 4 (14:47):
Convince you you're really their approach.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
I'm curious to hear you know where you see this
this industry going. Obviously, there's been incredible evolution over the
past couple of decades. What do you see changing or
what do you see emerging the world of theme parks
and theme park design in the next couple of decades.
Speaker 5 (15:05):
Well, the main thing is how much theme parks are
willing to commit to fully immersing you within, particularly intellectual
properties like Star Wars and Avatar and Harry Potter. So,
for example, whereas twenty years ago Disney might get the
licensed to build a Star Wars to put Star Wars
into their theme parks, and they'll build one ride, now
(15:25):
twenty years later they'll build an entire land and put
four attractions or Star Wars themes into it, as well
as Star Wars theam's restaurants and Star Wars themes, hotels
and Star Wars them shops. It's also becoming more personal,
particularly with video games kind of threatening its working to
step into a world. Theme parks have been trying to
(15:47):
find ways of immersing yourself more and more, and one
of the best ways of doing that is using new
technology like the ones at the Wisdom World of Harry Popper,
where you actually get to casture and spell within the environment,
and that's something that hasn't been done before.
Speaker 3 (16:04):
So we did an episode on Ikea a few weeks
ago and talked about the thought that goes into the
flow of the store, and I was curious if you
could talk a little bit about how that works for
theme parks.
Speaker 5 (16:12):
So with theme parks before seam parks were invented, thereway
its kind of their state fairs and amusement parks like
Coney Island. Their typical layout was just a grid layout,
so you have intersection with the rides in the middle,
and it was a really an interesting layout to walk around.
It wasn't the most efficient way of laying things out,
and so when kissy Land was designed in nineteen fifty five,
(16:35):
they decided, well Disney decided to try something different and
that's what invented the hubbn spoke layout. So in a
Hubban spoke layout, you have a plaza at the middle
with the castle, and then you have radial walkways spanning
out into the different themed lands, and by doing that
you kind of contain the steamed lands into their particular areas,
so you can create immersion and everything like that. And
(16:58):
also it's a much easier way of finding your way
arount around the park. But then within that you also
have you've got to get the guests to move around
within the park, so you have the engines of movement
that Sea Park design is used. And there are two
main ones. Okay, the first one is the weeni, which
is an odd term, but basically, a weeni is a
(17:19):
visual magnate. It's something that you see in the distance
and you go, wow, that looks interesting. I want to
know more about that, and so you walk towards it.
And the best example of that is obviously the Castle
on Main Street UFA. You go through the gates of Disneyland,
you see the castle and you immediately want to walk
up to end and see what's see what's down there.
And similarly at disneland Paris. Disland Paris is the first
(17:39):
part where not only did they use a weenie at
the end of Main Street USA, but they put weenieds
into every single lap.
Speaker 4 (17:44):
So when you're in the.
Speaker 5 (17:45):
Hub you could look towards Discovery Land and see Space Mountain,
you can look towards Frontier Land and see Big Thunder Mountain,
and every which every way you look, you have this
visual icon pulling you towards it. But then the second term,
which is the one that's used in shopping walls, is
the anchor. So in shopping malls, you'll kind of typically
find that the biggest store of the pace at the
extremities of the mall, and then all of the smaller
(18:07):
shops and the boutique shops and the independent shops placed
in between at the anchor stores. So the guests, we'll
go to an anchor store, then they'll go to the
next anchor store, and on the way they'll see these
other shops along the way and go, oh, I'll have
a look in here.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
David, this has been fascinating. I don't know about Mangash,
but I can't wait to get to another theme park.
I'm pretty sure we'll have this on our minds when
we are walking around the next theme park that we're in.
But thanks so much for joining us on Part Time Genius.
Speaker 5 (18:30):
You're very welcome.
Speaker 1 (18:43):
You're listening to Part Time Genius, and today we're talking
about the big ideas behind theme parks, all right, So mego,
what would you say if I told you that Disneyland
was actually more real than the world outside its gates.
Speaker 3 (18:55):
I mean, I'd probably say, you've gotten into that Uncle
walk kool aid you mentioned earlier.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
Well, you know, it's a pretty wild claim, but it's
one that kept coming up and doing the research for
this episode. So I started wondering if there was something
to the idea of theme parks being you know, this
heightened form of reality. And from what I can tell,
the first person to suggest this might have actually been
Walt Disney himself.
Speaker 3 (19:16):
Yeah, and I'm guessing Walt Disney was not biased at all.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
No, not at all, no way, no way was he biased. Well,
but there is an interesting story here. The story goes
that in the early days of the park, Walt once
gave a private tour to the famous evangelist Billy Graham,
and Graham walked around, thought it was nice, and he
made some sort of comment that Disneyland was simply, you know,
a nice fantasy, which which seems harmless enough, right. Well,
Walt reportedly took this as this subtle dig against his
(19:42):
park and the implication being that it was somehow false
and therefore maybe a waste of time.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
So Walt's clearly offended. Did he kick him out of
the park.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
Well, not exactly, but he did fire back with this
passionate and honestly pretty shocking claim. So he told Graham
here's the quote. He said, you know, fantasy isn't here.
This is very real. The park is reality. The people
aren't natural here. They're having a good time, they're communicating.
This is what people really are. The fantasy is it's
(20:11):
out there outside the gates of Disneyland, where people have
hatreds and people have prejudices. It's not really real.
Speaker 3 (20:19):
Disney sounds so it's crazy. But you said, other people
made similar claims to.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
Yeah, and you know one of the most prominent to
do so was the Italian novelists and essayistamberto Echo. It
was the mid nineteen seventies and Echo went on what
he described as a pilgrimage in search of hyper reality,
or the world of the absolute fake is. This basically
means he tooled around the US for a year. He
was touring and critiquing these popular tourist spots that housed
(20:45):
artistic reproductions or historical recreations and all these other examples
of faux reality, so you know, even things like wax
museums and the Western themed towns. But of course he
also visited America's top two fake cities being Disneyland and
California and Disney World in Florida.
Speaker 3 (21:02):
So it sounds like Echo is sort of skeptical of
America's fascination with fantasy. How do you wind up concluding
our theme parks are more real than the real world.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
Well, it goes back to this idea of hyperreality. You
know that the idea that simulation provides the ultimate expression
of the thing it represents. And it's a little heavy here,
but just just to explain it, So think about the
Jungle Cruise ride and the Adventureland section of the park.
That's the one where you take a boat ride down
this you know, several South American rivers, and the skipper
(21:30):
there at the helm makes you know all these bad
animal puns. And Echo writes about the ride and says,
when there's a fake a hippopotamus, dinosaur, a sea serpent,
it's not so much because it wouldn't be possible to
have the real equivalent but because the public is meant
to admire the perfection of the fake and its obedience
to the program. In this sense, Disneyland not only produces illusion,
(21:53):
but in confessing, it stimulates the desire for it. A
real crocodile could be found in a zoo, and as
a rule, it's dozing or hiding. But Disneyland tells us
that fake nature corresponds much more to our daydream demands.
He goes on to say, you risk feeling homesick for Disneyland,
where the wild animals don't have to be coaxed. Disneyland
(22:15):
tells us that technology can give us more reality than
nature can.
Speaker 3 (22:20):
That's some deep stuff, and it actually reminds me of
something I read about how really well manicured gardens were
once destination spots for tourists, like long before mechanical attraction's
caught on. In a weird way, they almost seem like
precursors to theme parks, at least given that idea of
hyperreality you're talking about, Well.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
How do you figure that, Well, garden's like a little microcosm.
Speaker 3 (22:40):
It's this idealized take on nature. And so if you
think of a Japanese garden where you have rocks and water, plants, ornaments,
miniature pagoda too. Like we arrange these elements as we
please to create our own little oasis, a small piece
of land that's meant to represent the best parts of
the world outside it.
Speaker 1 (22:59):
All right, I get that. And just like a theme park,
this elaborate gardens strives to mimic something about the real world,
and of course by softening the edges and being really
selective about what's included, and the result winds up feeling
like something unique all together. And it's not quite fake,
but not altogether real either.
Speaker 3 (23:17):
Yeah, hyperreal. But here's the thing. The kinds of gardens
people cultivate are usually reflections on the cultures to which
they belong. So, for example, French gardens tend to idealize
the symmetry and orderly rose to reflect man's mastery of nature,
while many English gardens.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
Do the opposite.
Speaker 3 (23:34):
So what exactly do our theme parks say about who
we are as a people?
Speaker 1 (23:38):
Well, I mean, I'd kind of like to think it
says something about us being a culture of dreamers. You
know that we draw on timeless stories to make sense
of the world and maybe even add meaning to our lives.
And you know, although I'm sure there's a cynical answer
about consumerism that others would offer as.
Speaker 3 (23:54):
Well, like the idealized version of a land full of
Santa Clauses. Right right, maybe that, but let's take the
high road on this one. After all, we'll be in
good company if we do. Because you know, Ray Bradbury
himself believed this.
Speaker 1 (24:07):
Oh right, yeah, I actually saw this as well. So
Bradbury was one of Disney's most outspoken fans.
Speaker 3 (24:12):
Right, yeah, definitely so. In fact, when a nineteen sixty
five article in the Nation denounced Disneyland as vulgar entertainment
on the same level as like Las Vegas, Bradbury basically
published a piece in Holiday Magazine entitled The Machine Tooled
Happy Land, and in it he sets the record straight
on why intellectuals or anyone else for that matter, shouldn't
be ashamed to visit the happiest place on Earth. And
(24:34):
in particular, Bradbury praised Disney's breakthrough in audio animatronics, which
he saw is the next best thing to creating life itself.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
Really wow, he went pretty far with this.
Speaker 3 (24:43):
Yeah, I mean you should hear this quote. So I'm
going to read it to you. Only a few hundred
years ago, all this would have been considered blasphemous. To
create man is not Man's business, but God's Disney, and
every technician with him would have been bundled and burned
at the stake in sixteen hundred. That's true, right, But
this is what he continues. But the fact remains that
(25:04):
Disney is the first to make a robot that is
convincingly real, that looks, speaks, and acts like a man.
He has set the history of humanized robots on its
way toward wider and more fantastic excursions.
Speaker 1 (25:15):
Wow. So you've got this science fiction writer who was
seeing things he'd only dreamed of in his stories taking
shape in real.
Speaker 3 (25:22):
Life, right, and he's just awed by the possibilities. He
even goes on to describe this future in which these
robots sort of affirm the truth of history and make
it real to people in a way that simply reading
about it always falls short. It's a really poetic notion
about these future robot museums, where I'm going to quote again,
we may begin to believe in every one of man's
(25:43):
many million days upon this earth. For these students, it
will not be history was, but history is.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
Oh well, that's definitely an interesting idea, and it's kind
of like Bradbury also recognized the hyper reality of these
theme parks, but rather than viewing that as a negative,
you know, he saw it as a way to reinforce truth,
history and the world itself. I guess yeah, you can.
Speaker 3 (26:02):
Really tell why Bradbury saw a fellow futurist in Walt
Disney like. They were both unceasingly optimistic about what mankind
could achieve. And I don't want to lean too heavily
on his essay, but there's one more section that really
captures what a theme park can be at its best,
So I'll go ahead and read it here. Quote in Disneyland,
Walt has proven again that the first function of architecture
(26:24):
is to make men over, make them wish to go
on living, feed them fresh oxygen, grow them tall, delight
their eyes, make them kind. Disneyland liberates men to be
their better selves. And he continues here, you will see
the happy faces of people. I don't mean dumb cluck happy.
I don't mean men's club happy or sewing circle happy.
(26:44):
I mean truly happy. And then I've got to keep
going because it's so good. No beat Nicks here, No
cool people with cool faces pretending not to care, thus
swindling themselves out of life or any chance of her life.
Disneyland causes you to care all over again. You feel
it's the first you feel. It's the first day in
the spring of that special year when you've discovered you
(27:05):
were really alive.
Speaker 1 (27:06):
No cool people with cool faces in Disney World. That's
pretty great. I'd say that's pretty much the definition of
a ring endorsement. I honestly, I'm not even sure how
to respond to that.
Speaker 3 (27:16):
Well, the ideal of response would probably be to make
a beeline for Disneyland. But since we're in the middle
of an episode, how about we just break forth quiz.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
Our next guest is a super fan of theme parks
and has turned his reporting and trip planning into a
really successful career as the founder and editor of Theme
Park Insider. Robert Niles. Welcome to part time Genius.
Speaker 4 (27:40):
Thanks for having me. It's great to be here.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
Great. Well, So, Robert, I was curious, was there a
theme park experience or just some specific theme park that
really sparked this passion of yours?
Speaker 4 (27:49):
Well, I'm a Los Angeles Natives. So my kids hauled
me down to Anaheim to visit Disneyland a lot when
I was a kid. But really maybe the thing that
turned me onto this was when we visited Universal Studios Hollywood,
back when it was just the Universal Studio Tour and
I was about six years old or something, but I
got picked to be one of those audience volunteers, and
(28:12):
so I was the freckle faced little kid and the
fake races Rice Aroni commercial that they taped on the
back lot back then. I'm just like, wow, this is
kind of cool I could be part of the show.
So that always kind of stuck with me. And then
when I was in college, I started working at Walt
disney World during the summers, and that just really cemented it.
So I've been a just a huge theme park fan
(28:34):
ever since.
Speaker 3 (28:34):
Do you have a favorite weird theme park or just
a favorite theme park overall?
Speaker 4 (28:40):
Oh? Wow, I mean I think my favorite theme park
would be Tokyo Disney ce and Japan, just an absolutely
lovely parking shows you what you can do with a
budget of several billion dollars. But in terms of like
little fun, quirky parks, I'm a real fan of Holiday World,
which is located in the tiny town of Santa Claus
in the It's just this wonderful place park, really out
(29:05):
in the middle of a cornfield someplace, but it's got
some really great World Clash roller coasters there, and you've
got a really fun crew of sands that show up
at this place. It's not like this is just a
park out in the suburbs and everybody lives there comes in.
If you're going to Santa Claus, Indiana, you're a dedicated
team park fan, it's just nice to be around a
bunch of other theme park geeks like me whenever I visit.
Speaker 3 (29:28):
That's so nice to hear because we'd actually read about
it and talked about it a little on the show,
but to hear that it's like a real park for
enthusias is pretty great.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
Yeah, that's that's great. Well, what about some favorite attractions,
just favorite oddball attractions you've seen, you know, at different parks.
Speaker 4 (29:45):
Actually, I'll talk about one that I haven't seen yet,
but one of our writers just just went on it's
at this park in Glenwood Canyon, Colorado. It's Glenwood Canyon
Adventure Park, and they've built a rock ride except that
when you typically think of drop rides, it's a big
tower where you go up a couple hundred feet in
(30:05):
the air and then you drop back to the ground.
This is seemed to be a mind drop ride, and
it's actually in a mine, so you enter on the
ground and then you drop down one hundred into a hole,
which just sounds like that could be a huge phobia
trigger for a while, which of course makes it that
much more fun for everybody else. But that's a that's
(30:28):
a quirky little park that it doesn't mean it's not
like a Disney park or anything. You did tiny attendance,
but they've got stuff like a roller coaster that's perched
on the edge of a thousand foot cliffs and all
of these things that are a little bit extreme for
a theme park attraction. So that's that's moved up high
on my to view bucket list of places to go visit.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
Are there any pet.
Speaker 3 (30:49):
Teams you'd love to see developed into a park?
Speaker 4 (30:51):
Oh wow, yeah, I mean the first thing everybody always
says is that, you know, everybody wants Lord of the
Rings of the park because it's you know, just huge ip.
But you know, a lot of parks have developed these
kind of video game based shooter rides now like you
see it. It does wide here at Disney, and Men in
Black at Universal and Justice League at six Flags. So
(31:13):
there's a desire to do something that's interactive. So I
think one thing I'd really like to see is some
type of thing where it's it's almost like you're in
the game of Clue or something. You have to solve
some sort of mystery in order to advance into the attractions.
A lot of that sort of gameplay could be a
lot of fun in the Team Park attraction.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
Definitely. Yeah, that's pretty great. Well, we appreciate your telling
us all about these parks, but we can't let you
go without putting you to the test. So what game
are we playing with Robert today, Mango.
Speaker 3 (31:43):
We're playing a little game called roller Coaster or Discontinued Superhero?
Speaker 1 (31:47):
All right, that's right, So this is simple work. We're
going to give you a name and you tell us
whether it's a roller coaster or a discontinued superhero. Are
you ready?
Speaker 4 (31:56):
Why not? Both?
Speaker 1 (31:58):
Maybe should be here we go Number one, Bouncing Boy.
Speaker 4 (32:03):
I'm going to guess that's a discontinued superhero.
Speaker 3 (32:06):
Yeah, it's a really dumb discontinued superhero Bouncing boys. Big
skill was that he turned into a bouncing ball.
Speaker 1 (32:13):
I don't know I would have wanted to do that
as a kid. All right. Number two he's one for one.
Number two Steel Vengeance.
Speaker 4 (32:20):
Oh, that's definitely a roller coast, actually going to be
a roller coaster.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
Wow, well done if bonus points if you happen to
know where this is.
Speaker 4 (32:26):
Going to be, that's a Keeter points fantaska ohio hicily done.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
He is an expert here. Okay, he's three for two.
Number three, Yank and Doodle.
Speaker 4 (32:38):
That's just awful. No matter what he is, I'm going
to get a superhero.
Speaker 3 (32:44):
Yeah. According to ranker dot COM's description, when they're together,
they have superhero strength. When they're apart, they're just dude.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
All right, all right. Number four King the.
Speaker 4 (32:58):
K Oh Definitely roller coaster.
Speaker 1 (33:00):
All right, bonus points for where it is.
Speaker 4 (33:04):
That would be at six Flags. Great adventure in New Jersey.
Speaker 1 (33:08):
Nicely done. Number five The Red Bee.
Speaker 4 (33:13):
The red Bee. That could go either way, but I'm
gonna say just continued superhero again.
Speaker 3 (33:20):
Yeah, you're right. The Red Bee's power was that he
was powerless, but he had a trained bee that he
attacks people with, and that trained bee's name was Michael.
Speaker 1 (33:30):
Actually, you know what, there was one here for an
even an additional bonus point. I thought this one was interesting.
All right, here we go thunder Dolphin.
Speaker 4 (33:39):
Ooh, that's another one that could go either way. Could
be a roller coaster to SeaWorld Parks. Not familiar with
which one, but let's just say roller coaster.
Speaker 3 (33:50):
Yeah. So this is a Tokyo Dome city and this
agile coaster dodges buildings and threads the needle through a
giant Ferris wheel.
Speaker 1 (33:58):
All right, nicely done. So how's Robert done today? Mango?
Speaker 3 (34:01):
He's got incredible seven for six, which has happened on
a show before.
Speaker 1 (34:05):
Ah, it's a record.
Speaker 3 (34:07):
So what is Robert w Yeah, he earns a note
to his mom or boss, singing his praises. So congratulations Robert.
Speaker 1 (34:14):
All right, Well, if you guys are thinking about attending
a theme park, you should check out Theme Park Insider. Robert,
thanks for joining us on part time genius.
Speaker 4 (34:21):
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (34:34):
Okay, so we had a pretty heavy discussion earlier about
hyper reality and theme parks, and you know, even Disneyland's
role as this, you might say, a technological steward of history.
But what do you say we keep things a little
bit lighter in this last segment, Mango.
Speaker 3 (34:48):
I'm all for it. I was actually thinking we could
just go back and forth with some of the lesser
known theme parks we came across during our research. I
don't know about you, but the ones that really grabbed
my attention were these random, like oddball parks with with
all these themes that are definitely not Disney.
Speaker 1 (35:03):
All right, sure, I'm up for that. So so what
are you thinking of? First?
Speaker 3 (35:05):
Well, some of the weirdest theme parks I came across
where were these kid Zania Family Entertainment centers. They're basically
indoor kid sized replica cities, complete with miniature vehicles and
buildings like hospital shops, banks, restaurants, and even a tiny airport.
And the idea is that kids can gain valuable life
experience by taking part in twenty five minute career based
(35:26):
role playing. Says, oh god, yeah, it gets worse. So
kids get a chance to try their hand at lofty
job assignments such as performing surgery or pollerting an aircraft,
as well as more menial tasks like that you find
them like changing a tire or working in a Coca
Cola bottling plant.
Speaker 1 (35:42):
It's like the worst theme park ever, mangt is what
exactly is the theme? Is it adulthood or just monotony
or what?
Speaker 3 (35:49):
Well, you haven't even heard the best part yet. So
kids learn the value of their labor by earning kid zos,
the official currency of kid Zania, and they can accrue
interest when deposited in the kid Zanian bank.
Speaker 1 (36:00):
Gosh, oh wow, all right, well that's pretty bleak, but
I actually still think I can top that. So last fall,
the UK was home to a theme park based entirely
on the literary works of Charles Dickens. It was called
Dickens World, and the park offered this interactive tour through
the drab buildings and grimy cobblestone streets of Old Victoria
in London. They even boasted about this Greater Expectations themed
(36:23):
water run and sadly the whole thing went belly up
though this was last October because the company behind the
park declared itself insolvent.
Speaker 3 (36:31):
And Tyler talking about the worst of times.
Speaker 1 (36:34):
Oh man, that should have been my my joke.
Speaker 3 (36:37):
Still, if we're going for bleak, you'll want to check
out survival drama in Lithuania, and while not a park
per se, it's the world's premier themed attraction for those
looking to experience what life was like for a citizen
of the USSR during the nineteen eighties. So the whole
ordeal starts when guests are ambushed by the Red Army
in the middle of a forest, and then they're transported
(36:58):
to a former Soviet bunk her in the Eastern European countryside.
Speaker 1 (37:01):
Oh my god, and it.
Speaker 3 (37:02):
Only gets worse like from there. It's a brisk three
hours of underground tunnels, barking dogs, verbal abuse, humiliation, coercion,
and even propaganda screenings friendly and it's all followed by
a celebratory tin of beef and a shot of vodka
to wash the taste of totalitarian regime from your mouth.
Speaker 1 (37:20):
Oh for the kids, right, it's horrible. I honestly don't
know what's worse that something like this is legal or
that people actually pay to be a part of it.
Speaker 3 (37:28):
Yeah, I know, it sounds like the worst vacation ever,
but according to the theater producer behind the attraction, that's
kind of the point. Like in an interview with the
Daily Mail. She said, quote, it's not for everyone, but
these days children must learn that it's not a laughing matter.
Men understand what it was like. They should realize how
much progress there's been over the past seventeen years.
Speaker 1 (37:48):
I like how they have vacation time to learn these lessons.
But I guess in a way that's kind of admirable.
But we're supposed to be keeping things light in this
last section. So did you you know, did you come
across any lesser known things, parks that aren't completely mortifying?
Speaker 2 (38:02):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (38:02):
So one of the coolest parks I found is called
Eftling World of Wonders. It's this amazing one hundred eighty
acre theme park in Amsterdam, and it's consistently ranked one
of the best in all of Europe. And in fact,
Eftaling is unbelievably popular. It's one of the few non Disney,
non universal parks to crack the top twenty five highest
attended theme parks in the world.
Speaker 1 (38:23):
Oh wow, that's pretty impressive. So what's the theme for
the park?
Speaker 3 (38:26):
I mean, that's the cool thing. Though the whole park
is based on classic fairy tales and folklore. So elves, gnomes,
Fairies and the like, And even though there's some thematic
crossover between this one and the Disney parks, there's a
much tighter focus on tradition and storytelling at Eftaling.
Speaker 1 (38:41):
So it's, I don't know, kind of a less commercialized
theme park.
Speaker 3 (38:44):
Maybe, yeah, kind of. I mean there are shops, to
be sure, but they aren't as central a focus as
they would be in any American theme park, which is
all the more impressive when you consider the cutting edge
ride technology and the lavishly detailed theming found throughout the park.
Get the feeling the designers didn't have to make a
whole lot of compromises in order to save a few
pennies or squeeze in another store front, and the results
(39:06):
of this really classy theme park.
Speaker 1 (39:09):
You know, before the episode, I probably would have considered
a classy theme park to be an oxymoron, But you know,
looking into all the philosophy at the root of these experiences,
I guess I feel kind of differently now.
Speaker 3 (39:20):
Yeah, it's all fun and games until someone has an
existential crisis on Space.
Speaker 1 (39:24):
Mountain, right right. I'll try to hold yourself together, Mango,
at least long enough for this episode's fact.
Speaker 2 (39:30):
Off Okay, so why don't you pick this on off?
Speaker 1 (39:41):
All right, I can do that. So did you know
that Freud and Jung visited Dreamland and Coney Island together?
It's actually true, and when they did, supposedly, Freud told
Jung that Coney Island was the only part of America
that interesting.
Speaker 3 (39:55):
So this is about Walt Disney, and it is the
fact I always think about whenever I hear his name.
Visitors came to visit Walt Disney, he'd serve them tomato
juice and he'd be furious if they refused to drink it.
In fact, his secretary would even warn people that it
was best to just accept it before they walked in.
Speaker 1 (40:11):
I had actually heard that fact before. But speaking of Disney,
one of my favorite parks, And I don't know why
I included this fact because I have the hardest time
saying this word. But it's the Beijing Chijing Shan amusement.
Speaker 3 (40:23):
It's not as fun to say as it.
Speaker 1 (40:24):
Is so hard to say. And mental Flaws dubbed this
the copyright and fringiest place on Earth. And although park
has been sued several times and often had to take
down statues, it's happily filled with ripoff animated characters and
landmarks that look so much like these Disney characters. And
oddly enough, this is something they've embraced in their advertisement.
(40:45):
You know what their old slogan was, It was Disney
is too far to go, Please come to Shijing Shan.
I think I said so.
Speaker 3 (40:55):
One of my favorite theme park thrills to read about
was this park called krocos Us Cove in Darwin, Australia,
and they have something that's way scarier than any roller coaster.
It's called the Cage of Death. So you get in
this little acrylic tank which they then submerge in water,
and you end up right next to the sixteen foot crocodile. God,
it sounds terrifying, but Krocosaur's Cove isn't a one trick pony,
(41:18):
and it also has the largest display of Australian reptiles anywhere.
Speaker 1 (41:21):
Wow, that is crazy. All right, Well, while we're on
the topic of our favorite weird theme parks, one of
these days, I really want to go to a place
called Bonbon Land, which is just an hour or so
away from Copenhagen and Denmark. And so, you know, you know,
we like to credit Harry Potter with popularizing all those
nasty flavored jelly beans, from ToeJam to stinky cheese and
all that kind of stuff. But this park is the
(41:43):
home of a candy factory that's been making disgusting confections
like earwax, seagull droppings, and dog farts since the eighties,
and in the early nineties they decided to open a
theme park there. And I know my son would die
to go to this place because they have one ride
that's called the dog Farting Roller Coaster. Do you get
to travel through lots of poop and enjoy the accompanying soundtrack?
Speaker 3 (42:06):
Yeah. So, as we always say on the show, no
matter how old you get, dog farts are always funny.
Speaker 1 (42:11):
It's true.
Speaker 3 (42:11):
I can't beat that. I'm gonna give you this week's trophy.
Speaker 1 (42:13):
Congrats. Well, thanks so much, and don't forget to write
to us at part Time Genius at HowStuffWorks dot com
or call us on the twenty four to seven fact
hotline that's one eight four four pt Genius. You can
share a fact or tell us why we should have
you on to play a quiz sometime. Thanks for listening.
(42:40):
Thanks again for listening. Part Time Genius is a production
of how stuff works, and wouldn't be possible without several
brilliant people who do the important things we couldn't even
begin to understand.
Speaker 3 (42:49):
Tristan McNeil does the editing thing.
Speaker 1 (42:51):
Noel Brown made the theme song and does the mixy
mixy sound thing.
Speaker 3 (42:54):
Jerry Roland does the exec producer thing.
Speaker 1 (42:57):
Gabeluesier is our lead researcher, with support from the research
Army including Austin Thompson, Nolan Brown and Lucas Adams.
Speaker 3 (43:03):
And Eves Jeffcok gets the show to your ears. Good job, Eves.
Speaker 1 (43:05):
If you like what you heard, we hope you'll subscribe,
And if you really really like what you've heard, maybe
you could leave a good review for us.
Speaker 3 (43:11):
Do we forget Jason?
Speaker 1 (43:13):
Jason who
Guess what, Mango, what's that will? I'm going to Dollywood?
Speaker 2 (00:05):
You what?
Speaker 1 (00:06):
I'm going to Dollywood. Our family was at this event
last week and we won a trip to freaking Dollywood.
I feel like that Powerball winner from last week. And
I do need to warn you about this. I may
never come back to work again, so.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
You've got to tell me what happens in Dollywood.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
I actually have no idea. That's part of why I'm
so excited. I mean, of course I've heard of it.
I grew up a few hours away from it, but
you know, other than knowing that one of the co
owners is Dolly Parton and she's great, and that it's
in this really pretty area of Tennessee, I know nothing
about it. And I'm actually intentionally avoiding any information about
it because I want to just show up and be
(00:40):
completely surprised.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
Well, I do have one spoiler for you, and this
is something I remember from reading about it a long
time ago. In the Chasing Rainbow section, they have this
autograph picture from Jonathan Taylor Thomas, and I think you
read something like you are so very special.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
Oh how sweet?
Speaker 4 (00:58):
I know.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
I love that he gave her that affirmation, but I
definitely want you to report back. I want to hear
what your kids think about it.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
I definitely will. But winning this trip felt like a
sign to me, you know that it was time to
do this episode on the history and philosophy of theme parks.
And we've been talking about doing this for a while now,
so let's get started. Hey, their podcast listeners, welcome to
(01:34):
Part Time Genius. I'm Will Pearson and as always I'm
joined by my good friend Mangesha Ticketter and the man
making funny faces, that is through the soundproof glasses, our
friend and producer Tristan McNeil. And today we're talking theme parks,
all the science and imagination and you know, even the
philosophy that goes into designing and building and running theme parks.
So we thought it'd be fun to dig into some
(01:55):
of the deep thinking behind one of the world's favorite
forms of escapism. We've also got some great guests on
the line to help us talk about that. Now, who's
joining us today?
Speaker 3 (02:03):
Mego, yeah, Today we'll be talking to David Younger, author
of the new book Theme Park Design and the Art
of the Entertainment. David's guide covers every aspect of the
theme park industry, including interviews with theme park legends and
Disney imagineers. We'll also be talking with a couple of
theme park enthusias who've made it their life's work to
chronicle all the going ons at their favorite parks.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
Very cool, all right, So we're going to dive in
in just a minute. But before we do that, we've
heard from so many of you by email or on
Facebook or Twitter, and even on our twenty four to
seven Fact hotline, and many of you have asked if
you can play one of our ridiculous quizzes. So here's
what we want you to do. Email us at Part
Time Genius at HowStuffWorks dot com or call us on
the Fact Hotline one eight four four pt Genius and
(02:45):
tell us why we should have you on to play
a quiz. Now, be sure to tell us something interesting,
of course, a true interesting fact about yourself, and maybe,
just maybe we'll have you on the show to play sometime.
All right, So before we get into the exhilarating rides,
designs and all that good stuff, we probably need to
start out by talking a little semantics.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
Semantics, you want to take this to the least fun
place possible.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
Yeah, I know, I know, but there is an important
distinction we should make about today's topic. So if you
were to ask somebody the difference between an amusement park
and a theme park, you know, they might think it's
a trick questions. I mean, you know, both kinds of
parks are high energy, they're family friendly. You've got all
the mechanical rides, the colorful designs, the tasty junk food,
which is probably my favorite part. You know, but there's
(03:31):
a very real difference between say, a seaside amusement park
like a Coney Island, and a full blown theme park
like Universal Studios or Lego Land.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
Sure, and I guess by the same token. Amusement parks
can contain individual rides or areas that are themed to something.
So if you think about something like six Flags in
their parks, they all have a bunch of un themed
roller coasters and carnival type rides, But then there are
all those attractions from like Looney Tunes or DC Comics,
So there's some crossover here and there.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
Yeah, that's that's true. But you know, for the most part,
it's enough to know that the goal of an amusement
park is to, you know, get people a thrill more
or less through random assortments of exciting rides, And you know,
the aim of a theme park, on the other hand,
is to really immerse people in this elaborate storytelling experience,
and that just happens to use exciting rides as a
way of telling these stories.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
So it was interesting to me in doing research for
this episode, that every aspect of a theme park, or
at least a really good one, is meticulously crafted to
support the park's theme. So not just like the architecture,
but things like the smells in the air, the music
being played, the characters of course, and employees' uniforms, but landscaping,
(04:40):
the color of the paint, the style of the benches,
even the trash cans. Like everything you see or hear
or smell or touch like it's carefully selected, all for
the story that's being told, which just seems like such
a lofty goal for someplace where kids are like throwing
tantrums and parents are angry that they're spending nine dollars
for a soda.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
Yeah no, I can't wait to be angry at Dollywood.
A lot of us tend to associate these with, you know,
crass commercialism, or think of them as a low brow
or mindless form of entertainment. But that's something we'll see
a lot today, is that there's more substance at the
core of these theme parks than most of us give
them credit for.
Speaker 3 (05:14):
And speaking of credit, I do want to take a
minute upfront to recognize Frederick Thompson, the inventor of the
world's first theme attraction and a true theme park pioneer.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
All right, So just to be sure we're not talking
the same Fred Thompson, who is the politician and the actor, right.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
I hope that would have been awesome, like talking about
politician Fred Thompson and then dropping the line like, oh yeah,
and he was a theme park pioneer.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
Right right, all right. We'll have a separate episode on
that Fred Thompson one day, but for this episode, this
seems like a good place to start tell us more
about him.
Speaker 3 (05:42):
Yeah, Thompson designed the first of what we'd categorized today
as a dark ride, but he hasn't gotten nearly as
much attention as some of the other theme park titans
we'll talk about today.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
And for any listeners who aren't up on their theme
park lingo, we should note that a dark ride is
basically just an indoor ride where a vehicle is guided
along this track and you know, you go from one
set to another. So you know, think Mister Toad's Wild
Ride at Disneyland, or Haunted Mansion, or you know, even
the generic kind of haunted house that you would go
through if you were at an amusement park exactly.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
And Thompson really helped develop this genre of rides. He
was an architect who designed buildings for county fairs and
public exhibitions, and he really wanted to create a ride
that could dazzle the audience's senses and help them forget
about their everyday worries. So in nineteen oh one, using
copious amounts of plaster and modern advances like electric machinery
and light bulbs, Thompson premiered his masterpiece, which he dubbed
(06:34):
a Trip to the Moon.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
And you were saying, you know, this was nineteen oh one,
so you know, if you think about the timing there,
not only have we not made it to the moon yet,
but even the Wright brothers, you know, their first man
flight was still a couple years off. So this whole premise,
this whole thing would have been complete science fiction at that.
Speaker 3 (06:51):
Point totally, and Thompson chose this theme wisely, which is
why he was fine forking over eighty five thousand dollars
to build the attraction, which by the way, is more
than two million dollars in today's money.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
Wow, God, that is so pricey, all right, So what
exactly did you get for that kind of cash?
Speaker 3 (07:05):
Well, the main part of the ride was a thirty
passenger airship that was suspended from the ceiling by steel cables,
and you can find pictures of it online. It basically
looks like a huge canoe with these wide ore like wings,
and the wings were controlled by this pulley system that
let the ship rock back and forth. And they're also
these like small fans that provide the sensation of wind
rushing by. Like, it was great the feeling of soaring
(07:27):
in this flying machine. And it's all enhanced by sound
effects and hundreds of tiny lights, and there's like a
painted canvas backdrop. It's amazing, especially for the time, and
and it wasn't just that. Like the people rise beyond
the Earth's atmosphere all the way to the moon, and
then when the ship reaches its destination, passengers disembark and
(07:48):
entered this lunar cavern and it's made of plaster, where,
of course they meet a race of moon people called
the Selenite.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
Right of course. So it was pretty much the world's
first flight simulator, right and it had, of course this
added dose of sci fi whimsy. I kind of wish
I could go back and ride this kind of thing
and see how people would have responded to it initially.
Speaker 3 (08:07):
Yeah, and more than that, he was a visionary, so
he included a gift shop where visitors could eat green
moon cheese.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
Of course. All right, so Frederick Thompson certainly played a
part in the evolution of amusement parks and that transition
into two theme parks. And you know, but while we're
on the subject of credit, we do have to get
this one out of the way. It would definitely be
impossible to talk about theme parks without referencing their patron saint,
and that's Walter Elias Disney, or Uncle Walt, as he's
(08:32):
known to those who've drunk the kool aid.
Speaker 4 (08:34):
You know.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
But no matter what you think of Disney Parks or
the behemoth parent company that they belonged to, there's really
no denying that the man behind the mouse revolutionized the
entertainment industry and of course paved the way for modern
theme parks as we know them.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
Absolutely, Disney was responsible for so many technical innovations that
became staples of the industry. I mean the biggest is
the audio animatronics, those lifelike robot characters that you see
at par So the Caribbean and the Enchanted Tiki Room.
But you know, if we really want to give proper credit,
we should also mention the creator of the world's first
theme park, which you know, a contrary to popular belief,
(09:10):
was not Walt Disney.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
Yeah, I was reading about that too, So this honor
actually belongs to a guy named Lewis Coke. He was
this industrialist and he had made it his retirement project
to create the first ever theme park. Now, you lived
near a tiny town called Santa Claus, Indiana. I know
we've talked about Santa Claus, Indiana before, but as you
can imagine, children from all of the world would visit
(09:32):
the town in hopes of meeting Santa. Of course, they
then only leave disappointed when they discovered old Saint Nick
did not, in fact, spend his off season in the
rural Midwest for some reason.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
He doesn't vacation in the Midwest. No, I don't think so,
which is you know that's funny, Like I had heard
of Santa claus Land, and I had heard of Santa
claus Indiana, but I never knew the two were connected.
But I'm curious, Like, I don't understand why parents would
make that trek. It seems crazy.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
Well either way, Lewis Coke was the father of nine,
so the thought of all those appointed kids coming to
town it really got to him. He'd always wanted to
build an amusement park, and so in nineteen forty six,
this was nine years before Disneyland would open to the public,
Coke introduce the world to Santa claus Land.
Speaker 3 (10:13):
I love that the first theme park has like the
narrowest theme imaginable.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
Yeah, I'd say it was pretty on the nose as
a theme, but still groundbreaking as a concept. I mean,
there had been tons of amusement parks before, but nothing
quite like Santa claus.
Speaker 3 (10:27):
Land, which also seems a little crazy because the concept
of like public amusement like that goes back all the
way to the Renaissance. That's when a pleasure gardens started
popping up on the grounds of English inns and taverns.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
Yeah, but you know, somehow an amusement park with a
dedicated theme had it really had never been done before,
and thankfully the idea proved a huge hit with the public,
and the Koch family was able to expand the park's
theme in the nineteen eighties, and this allowed them to
include areas themed around other holidays, so not just Christmas,
but Thanksgiving, Halloween, fourth of July. It's it's like such
(10:58):
a strange place, to be honest with you. But seventy
one years later the park is still open for business
than now it goes by the more inclusive name Holiday World.
Speaker 3 (11:08):
I like that Holiday World. It's so much smarter than
like just hanging out with Santa, which you can do
at any local mall. By the way, speaking of holidays,
do you know that John Dee Rockefeller used to celebrate
a personal holiday every year called job Day. It was
the anniversary of the day he got his first job
at sixteen, and he considered it way more important than
any other day in his calendar.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
Aw Well, I don't think I've seen any job Day
land theme parks, but I agree with you, it's better
to have a broad and more universal concept. And you know,
in thinking about all of this, I'm really curious about
the decision making that goes into planning a theme park, Like,
you know, how do you settle on a theme or
decide what kind of attraction to use for any of
these given concepts.
Speaker 3 (11:47):
Well, how about we got David Younger on the line
and see if you can walk us through that.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
Okay, Mangos. So a few weeks ago we did an
episode on World Records, and I'm not sure if Guinness
keeps up with a world record on the person who
has interviewed the most theme park designers in the world,
but if they did, I'm pretty sure we may be
talking to the person who would take that crown. He's
the author of really the the Ultimate Guide on designing
(12:19):
theme Parks. He spoke to thousands of designers, engineers, creatives
and others during the project, and the book is called
Theme Park Design and the Art of Themed Entertainment. So,
David Younger, welcome to part time Genius.
Speaker 5 (12:32):
Thank you very much for having me.
Speaker 3 (12:34):
So, David, I've read this was a massive project and
it took four years to complete. How did theme park
design become a passion of yours.
Speaker 5 (12:41):
Well, really, for me, it's been something that I've been
interested in ever since I was a kid. It's like
I was the kid that was playing roller coaster Tycoon
non stop, designing all the different things. And so I
knew I wanted to go.
Speaker 4 (12:52):
Into tempik design.
Speaker 5 (12:54):
The only trouble was that there are design courses, or
they weren't at the time. And so I went into film, said,
and I realized that you can get hundreds of books
on stream writing and directing and editing for film, but
nothing existed for themepuchs. So I kind of realized if
I wanted to learn this myself, and I wanted to
buy this book even though it didn't exist, I thought
(13:15):
I'd have to write it myself.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
Well that's terrific. Now, in the book, you talk about
three types of theme park guests and describe them as
world travelers, character huggers, and thrill seekers. And I was
curious to talk first about that that first group. These
world travelers. Now, these are the ones that you describe
as liking to be transported to another world that feels
so convincing that you almost believe you're really there. And
(13:39):
I'm curious for you, you know what parks stand out
as the best in the world at doing exactly that.
Speaker 5 (13:45):
Well, if you look at the different themepaxs around the world,
there are actually a number of different styles of design
that the theme park's use. And the best way of
thinking about this is to compare Epicot, for example, to
The Magic Kingdom, where at the Magic Kingdom you're asked
to kind of buy into this idea that you really
are in the American West, or you really are in
a fairytale village. Whereas you compare that to Epcot, where
(14:07):
you'll go on something alike the Universe of Energy, which
is where you're not really in any time or place,
you're just being kind of tort about a tort about energy.
Speaker 4 (14:17):
And these parks like the Magic.
Speaker 5 (14:19):
Kingdom that tried to convince you that you're really in
another entire another time and place. It's called new traditional
style parks, and really the best at that is definitely
going to be Disney. I mean, theyu of the people
that invented it back in the nineteen fifties and they're
still doing it absolutely brilliantly today. But as well as that,
Universal Studios it was kind of going for a post
(14:41):
modern type park in the nineteen eighties and nineteen nineties.
Whatever Harry Potter open, They're going for this place you
in the world.
Speaker 4 (14:47):
Convince you you're really their approach.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
I'm curious to hear you know where you see this
this industry going. Obviously, there's been incredible evolution over the
past couple of decades. What do you see changing or
what do you see emerging the world of theme parks
and theme park design in the next couple of decades.
Speaker 5 (15:05):
Well, the main thing is how much theme parks are
willing to commit to fully immersing you within, particularly intellectual
properties like Star Wars and Avatar and Harry Potter. So,
for example, whereas twenty years ago Disney might get the
licensed to build a Star Wars to put Star Wars
into their theme parks, and they'll build one ride, now
(15:25):
twenty years later they'll build an entire land and put
four attractions or Star Wars themes into it, as well
as Star Wars theam's restaurants and Star Wars themes, hotels
and Star Wars them shops. It's also becoming more personal,
particularly with video games kind of threatening its working to
step into a world. Theme parks have been trying to
(15:47):
find ways of immersing yourself more and more, and one
of the best ways of doing that is using new
technology like the ones at the Wisdom World of Harry Popper,
where you actually get to casture and spell within the environment,
and that's something that hasn't been done before.
Speaker 3 (16:04):
So we did an episode on Ikea a few weeks
ago and talked about the thought that goes into the
flow of the store, and I was curious if you
could talk a little bit about how that works for
theme parks.
Speaker 5 (16:12):
So with theme parks before seam parks were invented, thereway
its kind of their state fairs and amusement parks like
Coney Island. Their typical layout was just a grid layout,
so you have intersection with the rides in the middle,
and it was a really an interesting layout to walk around.
It wasn't the most efficient way of laying things out,
and so when kissy Land was designed in nineteen fifty five,
(16:35):
they decided, well Disney decided to try something different and
that's what invented the hubbn spoke layout. So in a
Hubban spoke layout, you have a plaza at the middle
with the castle, and then you have radial walkways spanning
out into the different themed lands, and by doing that
you kind of contain the steamed lands into their particular areas,
so you can create immersion and everything like that. And
(16:58):
also it's a much easier way of finding your way
arount around the park. But then within that you also
have you've got to get the guests to move around
within the park, so you have the engines of movement
that Sea Park design is used. And there are two
main ones. Okay, the first one is the weeni, which
is an odd term, but basically, a weeni is a
(17:19):
visual magnate. It's something that you see in the distance
and you go, wow, that looks interesting. I want to
know more about that, and so you walk towards it.
And the best example of that is obviously the Castle
on Main Street UFA. You go through the gates of Disneyland,
you see the castle and you immediately want to walk
up to end and see what's see what's down there.
And similarly at disneland Paris. Disland Paris is the first
(17:39):
part where not only did they use a weenie at
the end of Main Street USA, but they put weenieds
into every single lap.
Speaker 4 (17:44):
So when you're in the.
Speaker 5 (17:45):
Hub you could look towards Discovery Land and see Space Mountain,
you can look towards Frontier Land and see Big Thunder Mountain,
and every which every way you look, you have this
visual icon pulling you towards it. But then the second term,
which is the one that's used in shopping walls, is
the anchor. So in shopping malls, you'll kind of typically
find that the biggest store of the pace at the
extremities of the mall, and then all of the smaller
(18:07):
shops and the boutique shops and the independent shops placed
in between at the anchor stores. So the guests, we'll
go to an anchor store, then they'll go to the
next anchor store, and on the way they'll see these
other shops along the way and go, oh, I'll have
a look in here.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
David, this has been fascinating. I don't know about Mangash,
but I can't wait to get to another theme park.
I'm pretty sure we'll have this on our minds when
we are walking around the next theme park that we're in.
But thanks so much for joining us on Part Time Genius.
Speaker 5 (18:30):
You're very welcome.
Speaker 1 (18:43):
You're listening to Part Time Genius, and today we're talking
about the big ideas behind theme parks, all right, So mego,
what would you say if I told you that Disneyland
was actually more real than the world outside its gates.
Speaker 3 (18:55):
I mean, I'd probably say, you've gotten into that Uncle
walk kool aid you mentioned earlier.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
Well, you know, it's a pretty wild claim, but it's
one that kept coming up and doing the research for
this episode. So I started wondering if there was something
to the idea of theme parks being you know, this
heightened form of reality. And from what I can tell,
the first person to suggest this might have actually been
Walt Disney himself.
Speaker 3 (19:16):
Yeah, and I'm guessing Walt Disney was not biased at all.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
No, not at all, no way, no way was he biased. Well,
but there is an interesting story here. The story goes
that in the early days of the park, Walt once
gave a private tour to the famous evangelist Billy Graham,
and Graham walked around, thought it was nice, and he
made some sort of comment that Disneyland was simply, you know,
a nice fantasy, which which seems harmless enough, right. Well,
Walt reportedly took this as this subtle dig against his
(19:42):
park and the implication being that it was somehow false
and therefore maybe a waste of time.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
So Walt's clearly offended. Did he kick him out of
the park.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
Well, not exactly, but he did fire back with this
passionate and honestly pretty shocking claim. So he told Graham
here's the quote. He said, you know, fantasy isn't here.
This is very real. The park is reality. The people
aren't natural here. They're having a good time, they're communicating.
This is what people really are. The fantasy is it's
(20:11):
out there outside the gates of Disneyland, where people have
hatreds and people have prejudices. It's not really real.
Speaker 3 (20:19):
Disney sounds so it's crazy. But you said, other people
made similar claims to.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
Yeah, and you know one of the most prominent to
do so was the Italian novelists and essayistamberto Echo. It
was the mid nineteen seventies and Echo went on what
he described as a pilgrimage in search of hyper reality,
or the world of the absolute fake is. This basically
means he tooled around the US for a year. He
was touring and critiquing these popular tourist spots that housed
(20:45):
artistic reproductions or historical recreations and all these other examples
of faux reality, so you know, even things like wax
museums and the Western themed towns. But of course he
also visited America's top two fake cities being Disneyland and
California and Disney World in Florida.
Speaker 3 (21:02):
So it sounds like Echo is sort of skeptical of
America's fascination with fantasy. How do you wind up concluding
our theme parks are more real than the real world.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
Well, it goes back to this idea of hyperreality. You
know that the idea that simulation provides the ultimate expression
of the thing it represents. And it's a little heavy here,
but just just to explain it, So think about the
Jungle Cruise ride and the Adventureland section of the park.
That's the one where you take a boat ride down
this you know, several South American rivers, and the skipper
(21:30):
there at the helm makes you know all these bad
animal puns. And Echo writes about the ride and says,
when there's a fake a hippopotamus, dinosaur, a sea serpent,
it's not so much because it wouldn't be possible to
have the real equivalent but because the public is meant
to admire the perfection of the fake and its obedience
to the program. In this sense, Disneyland not only produces illusion,
(21:53):
but in confessing, it stimulates the desire for it. A
real crocodile could be found in a zoo, and as
a rule, it's dozing or hiding. But Disneyland tells us
that fake nature corresponds much more to our daydream demands.
He goes on to say, you risk feeling homesick for Disneyland,
where the wild animals don't have to be coaxed. Disneyland
(22:15):
tells us that technology can give us more reality than
nature can.
Speaker 3 (22:20):
That's some deep stuff, and it actually reminds me of
something I read about how really well manicured gardens were
once destination spots for tourists, like long before mechanical attraction's
caught on. In a weird way, they almost seem like
precursors to theme parks, at least given that idea of
hyperreality you're talking about, Well.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
How do you figure that, Well, garden's like a little microcosm.
Speaker 3 (22:40):
It's this idealized take on nature. And so if you
think of a Japanese garden where you have rocks and water, plants, ornaments,
miniature pagoda too. Like we arrange these elements as we
please to create our own little oasis, a small piece
of land that's meant to represent the best parts of
the world outside it.
Speaker 1 (22:59):
All right, I get that. And just like a theme park,
this elaborate gardens strives to mimic something about the real world,
and of course by softening the edges and being really
selective about what's included, and the result winds up feeling
like something unique all together. And it's not quite fake,
but not altogether real either.
Speaker 3 (23:17):
Yeah, hyperreal. But here's the thing. The kinds of gardens
people cultivate are usually reflections on the cultures to which
they belong. So, for example, French gardens tend to idealize
the symmetry and orderly rose to reflect man's mastery of nature,
while many English gardens.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
Do the opposite.
Speaker 3 (23:34):
So what exactly do our theme parks say about who
we are as a people?
Speaker 1 (23:38):
Well, I mean, I'd kind of like to think it
says something about us being a culture of dreamers. You
know that we draw on timeless stories to make sense
of the world and maybe even add meaning to our lives.
And you know, although I'm sure there's a cynical answer
about consumerism that others would offer as.
Speaker 3 (23:54):
Well, like the idealized version of a land full of
Santa Clauses. Right right, maybe that, but let's take the
high road on this one. After all, we'll be in
good company if we do. Because you know, Ray Bradbury
himself believed this.
Speaker 1 (24:07):
Oh right, yeah, I actually saw this as well. So
Bradbury was one of Disney's most outspoken fans.
Speaker 3 (24:12):
Right, yeah, definitely so. In fact, when a nineteen sixty
five article in the Nation denounced Disneyland as vulgar entertainment
on the same level as like Las Vegas, Bradbury basically
published a piece in Holiday Magazine entitled The Machine Tooled
Happy Land, and in it he sets the record straight
on why intellectuals or anyone else for that matter, shouldn't
be ashamed to visit the happiest place on Earth. And
(24:34):
in particular, Bradbury praised Disney's breakthrough in audio animatronics, which
he saw is the next best thing to creating life itself.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
Really wow, he went pretty far with this.
Speaker 3 (24:43):
Yeah, I mean you should hear this quote. So I'm
going to read it to you. Only a few hundred
years ago, all this would have been considered blasphemous. To
create man is not Man's business, but God's Disney, and
every technician with him would have been bundled and burned
at the stake in sixteen hundred. That's true, right, But
this is what he continues. But the fact remains that
(25:04):
Disney is the first to make a robot that is
convincingly real, that looks, speaks, and acts like a man.
He has set the history of humanized robots on its
way toward wider and more fantastic excursions.
Speaker 1 (25:15):
Wow. So you've got this science fiction writer who was
seeing things he'd only dreamed of in his stories taking
shape in real.
Speaker 3 (25:22):
Life, right, and he's just awed by the possibilities. He
even goes on to describe this future in which these
robots sort of affirm the truth of history and make
it real to people in a way that simply reading
about it always falls short. It's a really poetic notion
about these future robot museums, where I'm going to quote again,
we may begin to believe in every one of man's
(25:43):
many million days upon this earth. For these students, it
will not be history was, but history is.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
Oh well, that's definitely an interesting idea, and it's kind
of like Bradbury also recognized the hyper reality of these
theme parks, but rather than viewing that as a negative,
you know, he saw it as a way to reinforce truth,
history and the world itself. I guess yeah, you can.
Speaker 3 (26:02):
Really tell why Bradbury saw a fellow futurist in Walt
Disney like. They were both unceasingly optimistic about what mankind
could achieve. And I don't want to lean too heavily
on his essay, but there's one more section that really
captures what a theme park can be at its best,
So I'll go ahead and read it here. Quote in Disneyland,
Walt has proven again that the first function of architecture
(26:24):
is to make men over, make them wish to go
on living, feed them fresh oxygen, grow them tall, delight
their eyes, make them kind. Disneyland liberates men to be
their better selves. And he continues here, you will see
the happy faces of people. I don't mean dumb cluck happy.
I don't mean men's club happy or sewing circle happy.
(26:44):
I mean truly happy. And then I've got to keep
going because it's so good. No beat Nicks here, No
cool people with cool faces pretending not to care, thus
swindling themselves out of life or any chance of her life.
Disneyland causes you to care all over again. You feel
it's the first you feel. It's the first day in
the spring of that special year when you've discovered you
(27:05):
were really alive.
Speaker 1 (27:06):
No cool people with cool faces in Disney World. That's
pretty great. I'd say that's pretty much the definition of
a ring endorsement. I honestly, I'm not even sure how
to respond to that.
Speaker 3 (27:16):
Well, the ideal of response would probably be to make
a beeline for Disneyland. But since we're in the middle
of an episode, how about we just break forth quiz.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
Our next guest is a super fan of theme parks
and has turned his reporting and trip planning into a
really successful career as the founder and editor of Theme
Park Insider. Robert Niles. Welcome to part time Genius.
Speaker 4 (27:40):
Thanks for having me. It's great to be here.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
Great. Well, So, Robert, I was curious, was there a
theme park experience or just some specific theme park that
really sparked this passion of yours?
Speaker 4 (27:49):
Well, I'm a Los Angeles Natives. So my kids hauled
me down to Anaheim to visit Disneyland a lot when
I was a kid. But really maybe the thing that
turned me onto this was when we visited Universal Studios Hollywood,
back when it was just the Universal Studio Tour and
I was about six years old or something, but I
got picked to be one of those audience volunteers, and
(28:12):
so I was the freckle faced little kid and the
fake races Rice Aroni commercial that they taped on the
back lot back then. I'm just like, wow, this is
kind of cool I could be part of the show.
So that always kind of stuck with me. And then
when I was in college, I started working at Walt
disney World during the summers, and that just really cemented it.
So I've been a just a huge theme park fan
(28:34):
ever since.
Speaker 3 (28:34):
Do you have a favorite weird theme park or just
a favorite theme park overall?
Speaker 4 (28:40):
Oh? Wow, I mean I think my favorite theme park
would be Tokyo Disney ce and Japan, just an absolutely
lovely parking shows you what you can do with a
budget of several billion dollars. But in terms of like
little fun, quirky parks, I'm a real fan of Holiday World,
which is located in the tiny town of Santa Claus
in the It's just this wonderful place park, really out
(29:05):
in the middle of a cornfield someplace, but it's got
some really great World Clash roller coasters there, and you've
got a really fun crew of sands that show up
at this place. It's not like this is just a
park out in the suburbs and everybody lives there comes in.
If you're going to Santa Claus, Indiana, you're a dedicated
team park fan, it's just nice to be around a
bunch of other theme park geeks like me whenever I visit.
Speaker 3 (29:28):
That's so nice to hear because we'd actually read about
it and talked about it a little on the show,
but to hear that it's like a real park for
enthusias is pretty great.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
Yeah, that's that's great. Well, what about some favorite attractions,
just favorite oddball attractions you've seen, you know, at different parks.
Speaker 4 (29:45):
Actually, I'll talk about one that I haven't seen yet,
but one of our writers just just went on it's
at this park in Glenwood Canyon, Colorado. It's Glenwood Canyon
Adventure Park, and they've built a rock ride except that
when you typically think of drop rides, it's a big
tower where you go up a couple hundred feet in
(30:05):
the air and then you drop back to the ground.
This is seemed to be a mind drop ride, and
it's actually in a mine, so you enter on the
ground and then you drop down one hundred into a hole,
which just sounds like that could be a huge phobia
trigger for a while, which of course makes it that
much more fun for everybody else. But that's a that's
(30:28):
a quirky little park that it doesn't mean it's not
like a Disney park or anything. You did tiny attendance,
but they've got stuff like a roller coaster that's perched
on the edge of a thousand foot cliffs and all
of these things that are a little bit extreme for
a theme park attraction. So that's that's moved up high
on my to view bucket list of places to go visit.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
Are there any pet.
Speaker 3 (30:49):
Teams you'd love to see developed into a park?
Speaker 4 (30:51):
Oh wow, yeah, I mean the first thing everybody always
says is that, you know, everybody wants Lord of the
Rings of the park because it's you know, just huge ip.
But you know, a lot of parks have developed these
kind of video game based shooter rides now like you
see it. It does wide here at Disney, and Men in
Black at Universal and Justice League at six Flags. So
(31:13):
there's a desire to do something that's interactive. So I
think one thing I'd really like to see is some
type of thing where it's it's almost like you're in
the game of Clue or something. You have to solve
some sort of mystery in order to advance into the attractions.
A lot of that sort of gameplay could be a
lot of fun in the Team Park attraction.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
Definitely. Yeah, that's pretty great. Well, we appreciate your telling
us all about these parks, but we can't let you
go without putting you to the test. So what game
are we playing with Robert today, Mango.
Speaker 3 (31:43):
We're playing a little game called roller Coaster or Discontinued Superhero?
Speaker 1 (31:47):
All right, that's right, So this is simple work. We're
going to give you a name and you tell us
whether it's a roller coaster or a discontinued superhero. Are
you ready?
Speaker 4 (31:56):
Why not? Both?
Speaker 1 (31:58):
Maybe should be here we go Number one, Bouncing Boy.
Speaker 4 (32:03):
I'm going to guess that's a discontinued superhero.
Speaker 3 (32:06):
Yeah, it's a really dumb discontinued superhero Bouncing boys. Big
skill was that he turned into a bouncing ball.
Speaker 1 (32:13):
I don't know I would have wanted to do that
as a kid. All right. Number two he's one for one.
Number two Steel Vengeance.
Speaker 4 (32:20):
Oh, that's definitely a roller coast, actually going to be
a roller coaster.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
Wow, well done if bonus points if you happen to
know where this is.
Speaker 4 (32:26):
Going to be, that's a Keeter points fantaska ohio hicily done.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
He is an expert here. Okay, he's three for two.
Number three, Yank and Doodle.
Speaker 4 (32:38):
That's just awful. No matter what he is, I'm going
to get a superhero.
Speaker 3 (32:44):
Yeah. According to ranker dot COM's description, when they're together,
they have superhero strength. When they're apart, they're just dude.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
All right, all right. Number four King the.
Speaker 4 (32:58):
K Oh Definitely roller coaster.
Speaker 1 (33:00):
All right, bonus points for where it is.
Speaker 4 (33:04):
That would be at six Flags. Great adventure in New Jersey.
Speaker 1 (33:08):
Nicely done. Number five The Red Bee.
Speaker 4 (33:13):
The red Bee. That could go either way, but I'm
gonna say just continued superhero again.
Speaker 3 (33:20):
Yeah, you're right. The Red Bee's power was that he
was powerless, but he had a trained bee that he
attacks people with, and that trained bee's name was Michael.
Speaker 1 (33:30):
Actually, you know what, there was one here for an
even an additional bonus point. I thought this one was interesting.
All right, here we go thunder Dolphin.
Speaker 4 (33:39):
Ooh, that's another one that could go either way. Could
be a roller coaster to SeaWorld Parks. Not familiar with
which one, but let's just say roller coaster.
Speaker 3 (33:50):
Yeah. So this is a Tokyo Dome city and this
agile coaster dodges buildings and threads the needle through a
giant Ferris wheel.
Speaker 1 (33:58):
All right, nicely done. So how's Robert done today? Mango?
Speaker 3 (34:01):
He's got incredible seven for six, which has happened on
a show before.
Speaker 1 (34:05):
Ah, it's a record.
Speaker 3 (34:07):
So what is Robert w Yeah, he earns a note
to his mom or boss, singing his praises. So congratulations Robert.
Speaker 1 (34:14):
All right, Well, if you guys are thinking about attending
a theme park, you should check out Theme Park Insider. Robert,
thanks for joining us on part time genius.
Speaker 4 (34:21):
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (34:34):
Okay, so we had a pretty heavy discussion earlier about
hyper reality and theme parks, and you know, even Disneyland's
role as this, you might say, a technological steward of history.
But what do you say we keep things a little
bit lighter in this last segment, Mango.
Speaker 3 (34:48):
I'm all for it. I was actually thinking we could
just go back and forth with some of the lesser
known theme parks we came across during our research. I
don't know about you, but the ones that really grabbed
my attention were these random, like oddball parks with with
all these themes that are definitely not Disney.
Speaker 1 (35:03):
All right, sure, I'm up for that. So so what
are you thinking of? First?
Speaker 3 (35:05):
Well, some of the weirdest theme parks I came across
where were these kid Zania Family Entertainment centers. They're basically
indoor kid sized replica cities, complete with miniature vehicles and
buildings like hospital shops, banks, restaurants, and even a tiny airport.
And the idea is that kids can gain valuable life
experience by taking part in twenty five minute career based
(35:26):
role playing. Says, oh god, yeah, it gets worse. So
kids get a chance to try their hand at lofty
job assignments such as performing surgery or pollerting an aircraft,
as well as more menial tasks like that you find
them like changing a tire or working in a Coca
Cola bottling plant.
Speaker 1 (35:42):
It's like the worst theme park ever, mangt is what
exactly is the theme? Is it adulthood or just monotony
or what?
Speaker 3 (35:49):
Well, you haven't even heard the best part yet. So
kids learn the value of their labor by earning kid zos,
the official currency of kid Zania, and they can accrue
interest when deposited in the kid Zanian bank.
Speaker 1 (36:00):
Gosh, oh wow, all right, well that's pretty bleak, but
I actually still think I can top that. So last fall,
the UK was home to a theme park based entirely
on the literary works of Charles Dickens. It was called
Dickens World, and the park offered this interactive tour through
the drab buildings and grimy cobblestone streets of Old Victoria
in London. They even boasted about this Greater Expectations themed
(36:23):
water run and sadly the whole thing went belly up
though this was last October because the company behind the
park declared itself insolvent.
Speaker 3 (36:31):
And Tyler talking about the worst of times.
Speaker 1 (36:34):
Oh man, that should have been my my joke.
Speaker 3 (36:37):
Still, if we're going for bleak, you'll want to check
out survival drama in Lithuania, and while not a park
per se, it's the world's premier themed attraction for those
looking to experience what life was like for a citizen
of the USSR during the nineteen eighties. So the whole
ordeal starts when guests are ambushed by the Red Army
in the middle of a forest, and then they're transported
(36:58):
to a former Soviet bunk her in the Eastern European countryside.
Speaker 1 (37:01):
Oh my god, and it.
Speaker 3 (37:02):
Only gets worse like from there. It's a brisk three
hours of underground tunnels, barking dogs, verbal abuse, humiliation, coercion,
and even propaganda screenings friendly and it's all followed by
a celebratory tin of beef and a shot of vodka
to wash the taste of totalitarian regime from your mouth.
Speaker 1 (37:20):
Oh for the kids, right, it's horrible. I honestly don't
know what's worse that something like this is legal or
that people actually pay to be a part of it.
Speaker 3 (37:28):
Yeah, I know, it sounds like the worst vacation ever,
but according to the theater producer behind the attraction, that's
kind of the point. Like in an interview with the
Daily Mail. She said, quote, it's not for everyone, but
these days children must learn that it's not a laughing matter.
Men understand what it was like. They should realize how
much progress there's been over the past seventeen years.
Speaker 1 (37:48):
I like how they have vacation time to learn these lessons.
But I guess in a way that's kind of admirable.
But we're supposed to be keeping things light in this
last section. So did you you know, did you come
across any lesser known things, parks that aren't completely mortifying?
Speaker 2 (38:02):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (38:02):
So one of the coolest parks I found is called
Eftling World of Wonders. It's this amazing one hundred eighty
acre theme park in Amsterdam, and it's consistently ranked one
of the best in all of Europe. And in fact,
Eftaling is unbelievably popular. It's one of the few non Disney,
non universal parks to crack the top twenty five highest
attended theme parks in the world.
Speaker 1 (38:23):
Oh wow, that's pretty impressive. So what's the theme for
the park?
Speaker 3 (38:26):
I mean, that's the cool thing. Though the whole park
is based on classic fairy tales and folklore. So elves, gnomes,
Fairies and the like, And even though there's some thematic
crossover between this one and the Disney parks, there's a
much tighter focus on tradition and storytelling at Eftaling.
Speaker 1 (38:41):
So it's, I don't know, kind of a less commercialized
theme park.
Speaker 3 (38:44):
Maybe, yeah, kind of. I mean there are shops, to
be sure, but they aren't as central a focus as
they would be in any American theme park, which is
all the more impressive when you consider the cutting edge
ride technology and the lavishly detailed theming found throughout the park.
Get the feeling the designers didn't have to make a
whole lot of compromises in order to save a few
pennies or squeeze in another store front, and the results
(39:06):
of this really classy theme park.
Speaker 1 (39:09):
You know, before the episode, I probably would have considered
a classy theme park to be an oxymoron, But you know,
looking into all the philosophy at the root of these experiences,
I guess I feel kind of differently now.
Speaker 3 (39:20):
Yeah, it's all fun and games until someone has an
existential crisis on Space.
Speaker 1 (39:24):
Mountain, right right. I'll try to hold yourself together, Mango,
at least long enough for this episode's fact.
Speaker 2 (39:30):
Off Okay, so why don't you pick this on off?
Speaker 1 (39:41):
All right, I can do that. So did you know
that Freud and Jung visited Dreamland and Coney Island together?
It's actually true, and when they did, supposedly, Freud told
Jung that Coney Island was the only part of America
that interesting.
Speaker 3 (39:55):
So this is about Walt Disney, and it is the
fact I always think about whenever I hear his name.
Visitors came to visit Walt Disney, he'd serve them tomato
juice and he'd be furious if they refused to drink it.
In fact, his secretary would even warn people that it
was best to just accept it before they walked in.
Speaker 1 (40:11):
I had actually heard that fact before. But speaking of Disney,
one of my favorite parks, And I don't know why
I included this fact because I have the hardest time
saying this word. But it's the Beijing Chijing Shan amusement.
Speaker 3 (40:23):
It's not as fun to say as it.
Speaker 1 (40:24):
Is so hard to say. And mental Flaws dubbed this
the copyright and fringiest place on Earth. And although park
has been sued several times and often had to take
down statues, it's happily filled with ripoff animated characters and
landmarks that look so much like these Disney characters. And
oddly enough, this is something they've embraced in their advertisement.
(40:45):
You know what their old slogan was, It was Disney
is too far to go, Please come to Shijing Shan.
I think I said so.
Speaker 3 (40:55):
One of my favorite theme park thrills to read about
was this park called krocos Us Cove in Darwin, Australia,
and they have something that's way scarier than any roller coaster.
It's called the Cage of Death. So you get in
this little acrylic tank which they then submerge in water,
and you end up right next to the sixteen foot crocodile. God,
it sounds terrifying, but Krocosaur's Cove isn't a one trick pony,
(41:18):
and it also has the largest display of Australian reptiles anywhere.
Speaker 1 (41:21):
Wow, that is crazy. All right, Well, while we're on
the topic of our favorite weird theme parks, one of
these days, I really want to go to a place
called Bonbon Land, which is just an hour or so
away from Copenhagen and Denmark. And so, you know, you know,
we like to credit Harry Potter with popularizing all those
nasty flavored jelly beans, from ToeJam to stinky cheese and
all that kind of stuff. But this park is the
(41:43):
home of a candy factory that's been making disgusting confections
like earwax, seagull droppings, and dog farts since the eighties,
and in the early nineties they decided to open a
theme park there. And I know my son would die
to go to this place because they have one ride
that's called the dog Farting Roller Coaster. Do you get
to travel through lots of poop and enjoy the accompanying soundtrack?
Speaker 3 (42:06):
Yeah. So, as we always say on the show, no
matter how old you get, dog farts are always funny.
Speaker 1 (42:11):
It's true.
Speaker 3 (42:11):
I can't beat that. I'm gonna give you this week's trophy.
Speaker 1 (42:13):
Congrats. Well, thanks so much, and don't forget to write
to us at part Time Genius at HowStuffWorks dot com
or call us on the twenty four to seven fact
hotline that's one eight four four pt Genius. You can
share a fact or tell us why we should have
you on to play a quiz sometime. Thanks for listening.
(42:40):
Thanks again for listening. Part Time Genius is a production
of how stuff works, and wouldn't be possible without several
brilliant people who do the important things we couldn't even
begin to understand.
Speaker 3 (42:49):
Tristan McNeil does the editing thing.
Speaker 1 (42:51):
Noel Brown made the theme song and does the mixy
mixy sound thing.
Speaker 3 (42:54):
Jerry Roland does the exec producer thing.
Speaker 1 (42:57):
Gabeluesier is our lead researcher, with support from the research
Army including Austin Thompson, Nolan Brown and Lucas Adams.
Speaker 3 (43:03):
And Eves Jeffcok gets the show to your ears. Good job, Eves.
Speaker 1 (43:05):
If you like what you heard, we hope you'll subscribe,
And if you really really like what you've heard, maybe
you could leave a good review for us.
Speaker 3 (43:11):
Do we forget Jason?
Speaker 1 (43:13):
Jason who
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