May 11, 2018 • 38 mins
Few men held as many secrets as the long-lasting FBI director J. Edgar Hoover. And while he had thousands of files documenting the secret lives of intellectuals, celebrities and politicians, Hoover had no shortage of secrets of his own. Will and Mango dig into the man, how his PR genius saved the FBI's reputation, and why Richard Nixon just couldn't work up the nerve to fire him.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Guess what, mango, what's up? Well, so you remember that
show Rowan and Martin's laughing, right, Yeah, of course, Like
my sister and I were huge fans because my dad
had taped some sort of anniversary special for us, so
we used to watch all the time as kids. It
had like Goldie Hawn and Lily Tomlin, Sammy Davis Jr.
Was on it. It was it was great. It is
pretty amazing to see some of those old clips. Well,
in preparation for today's episode, I was reading this twenty
(00:22):
one page report and this thing was filed by the
FBI back in nineteen seventy one because apparently they were
not happy that the show had been making fun of
their untouchable director, you know, the j Edgar Hoover. And
I'd actually never looked at this report before, but it's
actually publicly available online now. And I remember we printed
a story about this in Mental Flaws a while back.
(00:43):
You remember this, So I don't remember the Mentalphi story,
but I do know that the FBI was mad about
the show's actors pretending that they were like talking to
Hoover through this bugged potted plant. Yeah, that was one
of them. And there were a few other sketches, but
my favorite is how ticked off they got it? What
now seems like the most harmless joke. In fact, it
was actually a knock knock joke. Are you ready to
(01:04):
hear this? I mean, you know I'm always ready for
a knock knock joke? Great, all right, here goes then
knock knock? Who's there? Hoover? Hoover? Who Hoover heard of
a seventy six year old policeman? That's it? Yeah, and
that for some reason has really ticked them off. And
in the report that's dumb joke, it's referred to as vicious.
(01:25):
I mean, not only is it like a super mild joke,
it barely feels like a joke, I know, but the
fact that it spawned a twenty one page report is
just baffling. And if there's one thing we know, it's
that you didn't mess with j Edgar Hoover. So today
we're going to take a look back at how Hoover
rose to power, how we managed to expand that power
over several decades, and what that's meant for our country's
(01:48):
evolving relationship to the agency. So let's get started, ye AI.
(02:12):
Their podcast listeners, Welcome to Part Time Genius. I'm Will
Pearson and as always I'm joined by my good friend
Mangesh Ticketer and on the other side of the soundproof
glass showing off his favorite vintage j Edgar Hoover buttons.
That's our friend and producer Tristan McNeil. Now, I do
want to be clear these are anti Hoover buttons from
the look of them. At least you've got what there's
one that says replaced j Edgar Hoover. He's got another
(02:34):
one that says j Edgar Hoover is listening to you.
And I actually can't make out that what you're closer
to a mango. What does that yellow one say? Yeah,
it says j Edgar Hoover sleeps with a Nightlight to
oh Burn, I know it's probably my favorite, but Tristan
was actually telling me about these earlier, and apparently they're
all from the Vietnam were era when Hoover's abuses of
power were first coming to light Well. Sleeps with a
(02:56):
Nightlight is definitely one of the tamer accusations leveled at
who were over the years, and after looking into the
history for today's show, it's easy to understand why he
remains such a controversial figure even today, from playing fast
and loose with civil liberties to collecting secret files on
innocent people. There's no question that Hoover's five decade reign
as FBI director came with some heavy costs for the
(03:18):
nation as a whole. Yet at the same time, it's
also clear that Hoover did a great deal of good
for his country, particularly during the early years of his tenure,
when he helped pioneer many new crime fighting measures. They're
still being used today, and these are things like fingerprint
files and investing in crime labs. So with that dichonomy
in mind, we're going to take a closer look at
(03:38):
the man behind the controversy and try to get a
better sense of both the good and the bad of
Hoover's lifelong reign. Yeah, and I think you hit the
nail on the head when you said lifelong, because you know,
he became director of the Bureau of Investigation way back
in four when he was just twenty nine years old,
and then when the Bureau reorganized and added federal to
its title, this was a nine five. Hoover stayed on
(04:01):
as director for an amazing forty eight more years. And
you know, just to put that run in perspective, keep
in mind that even with lifetime appointments, the longest serving
Supreme Court justice only lasted thirty six years. Yeah, and
you know, when you think about it, that kind of
career dedication, it did come at a steep price for him,
because you know, by most historians accounts, the man really
(04:22):
didn't have much of a private life. He never married
or had children, didn't have any notable hobbies or pastimes,
and there aren't many personal stories from his adult years
to shed life on who he was outside of the office.
And you know, usually it'd be easy to brush this off.
It's just saying it's typical for a workaholic. And some
historians suggest Hoover's lack of a private life was by design, though,
(04:44):
And I mean, for a guy whose life mission involved
collecting dirt on anyone and everyone, it does make sense
that he would have wanted his own life to be
as dirt free as possible. Right, But of course we
know that didn't stop people from cooking up all kinds
of scandals and conspiracy theories about him anyway. And well,
I'm sure we'll get to those later. For now, I
do want to go back to Hoover's early years because
(05:04):
that's really our best chance to get a sense of
his personal life and who he was. Yeah, okay, I'm
done with that, but you're probably gonna have to do
the heavy lifting on this one, because I'm gonna share
with you the two facts I learned about his early life.
One he was born in Washington, D c. In eight
and two he apparently had a bad stutter. That's all
I got. I hope you've got more than that. It
doesn't feel like you really tried there. It is a start.
(05:27):
So Hoover actually grew up just a few blocks from
Capitol Hill, and he did, to your point, have a
stuttering problem. You know, he joins this long list of
famous people who stuttered. His kids, Joe Biden's on this list,
Winston Churchill, Moses was apparently a stutter. Um Marilyn Monroe
apparently her her breathy way of talking was just a
way to slow down her speech, so she didn't stutter.
(05:48):
But Hoover actually did the opposite. He competentated by talking
really quickly. Ain't taught himself to talk super fast, and
in fact, he got so adept at talking that he
joined the debate team in high school, where he was
known for spreading and using his cool, relentless logic, which
I guess sounds impressive until you realize he was arguing
against stuff like giving women the right to vote. You know,
(06:10):
I'm curious, though, what about Hoover's home life. Was he
close with his family or was he always more or
less aloof Yeah, so, Hoover did have two older siblings,
He had a brother and a sister, but he was
probably closest to his mother, and supposedly she was the
family's moral center and also the main disciplinarian. And given
those characteristics, I guess it makes sense that JEdgar Hoover
(06:31):
would have gravitated most to her. I mean, the two
of them stayed super close all through Hoover's life, and
they even lived together right up until her death. She
passed when Hoover was apparently forty three years old. And
so what about his dad? Well, Hoover's dad was this
low level government worker, which which is why they lived
so close to Capitol Hill, And unfortunately, he began to
suffer from a mental illness when Hoover was young, which
(06:52):
put a lot of pressure on his son and also
created something of a riff between them. And as one
of Hoover's cousins put it, Hoover couldn't really tolerate that fact.
He couldn't tolerate anything that was imperfect. It's not exactly
the warmest way to deal with the loved one's illness.
But all right, So that this, this makes Hoover the
breadwinner of his family at this point. So does he
(07:13):
go straight into law enforcement or what does he do next? Now,
Hoover's first foray into public service was actually as a
messenger at the Library of Congress. So he took the
gig in nineteen thirteen when he started attending college as
a law student. And you know, he's the successful upstart.
He gradually rose through the ranks over there for the
next four years. Then, once Hoover passed the bar examp,
(07:35):
he actually quit the library job, and the very next
day he took an entry level position as a clerk
at the Justice Department. But his time working at the
library deeply influenced Hoover, and, as he later wrote, the
job trained me on the value of collating material. He
gave me an excellent foundation for my work in the FBI,
where it's been necessary to collate information and evidence. Huh.
(07:55):
You know, I was actually reading about some of the
innovations Hoover made at the FBI, and one of them
was actually the addition of cross referencing to the agency's
filing system, So you can kind of see where he
got that idea exactly. But as formative as that first
job was, Hoover really started to come into his own
at the d o J. And in fact, just two
years after being hired as a clerk, Hoover had impressed
(08:17):
his superior so much that he was promoted to head
of the Bureau of Investigations General Intelligence Division. And at
this point, the US had entered World War One, so
Hoover's job was largely to gather intelligence on radical groups
within the country. All right, So this is the part
that I feel like we learned about in history class,
because this this is the red scare that we're talking
about now, right, Yeah, And and specifically, there was this
(08:38):
series of anarchist bombings in the US in nine and
one of them damaged the home of the Attorney General
at the time, this guy, Mitchell Palmer. So in retaliation,
Palmer had the General Intelligence Division carry out these raids
to arrest people suspected of being radicals, and over the
course of the next two years, these Palmer rays resulted in,
like the rest of I want to say, thousands of
(09:00):
cused communists and anarchists, and several hundred of these people
were actually deported. Now were these raids legal. It sounds
like Hoover had authorization from his boss to conduct them.
But but did they have this big stack of search
warrants or anything like that. No. I mean that the
raids were definitely illegal, and there were other problems too.
So for one thing, most of the accused turned out
to be innocent, and many of the confessions that were
(09:20):
given were actually highly questionable. They seemed coorced. But luckily
for Hoover, all of that backlash over this abusive power
fell on Palmer, who was eventually forced to resign, and
Hoover meanwhile came away on scathes. But he did learn
a lesson from this, like he realized from watching the
fallout that you want to stay on the good side
of the politically powerful. When it seems like he took
(09:41):
that lesson to heart, actually read that even though Hoover
had about six hundred files on U. S. Senators and
congressmen by the time of his death. The FBI never
formally investigated or charged a member of Congress while Hoover
was in charge of it, rather than making enemies or
drawing attention to himself, who were just quietly collected dirt
on these guys in case he needed a favor from
(10:02):
them down the line. But that's not to say that
Hoover stayed off the public's radar completely. In fact, I'd
say the other big takeaway he had from the Palmer
raids was the importance of protecting your agency's image definitely.
And after Palmer resigned, Whover was quickly promoted to assistant
director of the Bureau of Investigation and then to director
just a few years later. And you know, whoever had
been gunning for this position for a while, and it
(10:25):
just wasn't what it was cracked up to be at first.
You know, the main problem was what you just mentioned.
So the agency was this pr nightmare. It had been
racked by scandal in recent years. The public didn't actually
place that much trust in the people working there, and
in fact, agents weren't even allowed to carry guns or
make arrest until which really shows you how little trust
(10:45):
the public had in them. Yeah, and from what I gather,
Whover really cleaned house when he took over there, Like
he fired everyone he considered to be political appointees or
just unqualified for the job. He instituted the strict policy
of background checks, interviews, physical tests for any new applicants,
and this kind of rigor was applied to everything, not
just hiring. There were some pretty weird rules he had
(11:08):
around there, like, for instance, Hoover even forbade his agents
from drinking coffee at work after eight fifteen in the morning.
Wait why, I don't know exactly, but I imagine it
was some sort of judgment on people needing these stimulants
that late in the work day after eight fifteen is late.
I guess weak agents, I guess so. At any rate,
Hoover whipped the bureau and the shape and Congress began
(11:30):
to take notice. They increased the agency's funding, which allowed
Hoover to develop the first crime lab for gathering and
analyzing evidence. And then, in nineteen thirty five, and pressed
with what Hoover had accomplished and his time as director,
Congress decided to make the Bureau of full fledged federal
agency and keep Hoover as its director. And you know
now that they're finally allowed to carry guns and make arrest.
(11:52):
The FBI actually turned its attention from these radical communist
groups to armed gangsters. So they're going after these folk heros,
pretty Boy Floyd and baby Face Nelson and this obviously
helped the agency's public perception when Hoover's cool, collected agents
started taking down these thugs. Yeah, you know, and Hoover
and his FBI agents were pretty much rock stars by
(12:13):
this point. In fact, I saw this old pole from
nineteen thirty six. There were eleven thousand American schoolboys who
were asked to vote on who they considered the most
popular man in the country. And this is just mind
boggling to me. So the president at the time was FDR.
He managed to land and I think it was like
seventh place, but the FBI director he came in second
(12:34):
second place. I don't even know how many people in
the US, how many school kids especially could name the
FBI director at this point. It's just unbelievable. Yeah, it's
super weird, but it does make me wonder who's in
that top spot. None other than Robert Ripley, you know,
the creator of Ripley's Believe it or not, I mean
that feels hard to believe. Well, times have definitely changed,
(12:56):
but you know, I do want to talk a little
bit more about the FBI's on pre sidented popularity and
I think it really speaks to Hoover's skills as a
PR man, which is ultimately what helped his agency weather
the political storms in the next forty year or so years. Well,
that sounds good to me, but first we should take
a quick break. You're listening to part Time Genius and
(13:27):
we're talking about the life and times of j Edgar Hoover.
All right, mango, So I want to talk about Hoover's
mastery of public relations because in a lot of ways,
he was really the first to bring Madison Avenue PR
techniques to Washington. And to give you an idea of
what I mean by this, I want to share this
quote from Mark am Bender, who is the author of
a book called Deep State Inside the Government Secrecy Industry.
(13:50):
So am Bender writes, quote, one of Hoover's first orders
of business after taking the helm at the newly meanted
FBI was to build an impenetrable shield of public support.
He knew that such support would be essential to surviving
the hostile political waters of Washington, but his efforts went
far beyond a few press releases. He encouraged the creation
of pulp magazines, bubblegum cards, and comics. Likewise, he worked
(14:14):
with Hollywood to produce films about gmen like Public Enemies,
Wife Show Them No Mercy, and the FBI story one film.
Public Enemy Number One even put Hoover in its ad campaign.
I mean, that's ridiculous when you think about Yeah, but
the common image that we have today of FBI special agents,
you know, you think the dark suits, the neck ties,
(14:35):
all that actually comes from these efforts, and it's endured
for you know, you think about it. Now, we're talking
about eighty years or so, and so it's no wonder
that all these school boys were looking up to him. Yeah,
I mean, it is amazing to think what a pr
genius he was. And I I did read up a
bit on Hoover's Hollywood connections, and it's crazy to think
how much sway the studios gave him. He even had
(14:56):
final say on which actors could be cast. So for
Public Enemy, whoever interviewed Jimmy Stewart beforehand and then had
to give his approval before the studio could use them.
I mean, that's especially funny because apparently Hoover considered the
movie It's a Wonderful Life to be communist propaganda. I've
read that before, but it's still just so weird. And
that was right after the movie was released in ninety
(15:17):
I mean, that's super strange. And you know, Whover clearly
like Jimmy Stewart, but the main character in that movie
is the selfless banker in a small town. It's hard
to imagine being against it for being communist, right, Well,
that's true, but the villain of the film, Mr Potter,
he was also a banker. And apparently that was enough
for the FBI to conclude that the movie quote deliberately
(15:39):
maligned the upper class. And it's kind of funny to
read these quotes at this point. And they must have
taken this charge pretty seriously too, because in ninety seven,
the House on American Activities Committee actually held a hearing
about this and there was a film critic there. His
name was John Charles Moffatt, and he was trying to
defend the movie in court. And here's what he said.
He said, I think Mr. Opper's picture, that it had
(16:01):
a banker as a villain, could not be properly called
a communist picture. It showed that the power of money
can be used oppressively and it can be used benevolently. Now, sadly,
Moffitt's defense fell on deaf ears because the FBI didn't
remove the film from its list of suspected propaganda until
nineteen fifty six. I mean, it's crazy to think the
(16:21):
FBI once blacklisted what's essentially the most wholesome holiday movie
of all time. I guess that in a way, like
who never really gave up on that work that he
did with Palmer, Like he continued monitoring anyone or anything
they saw his immoral or unpatriotic or suspect in any way,
especially communist. Well that's true. And actually one high profile
(16:44):
holdover from those Red Scare days was none other than
Charlie Chaplin. Hoover had worried about the British actors rising popularity.
He even tried to have him deported at one point,
that he could never make it really stick. Then then
some thirty odd years later, thirty years later, when Chaplin
left the country to promote his latest movie. Hoover seized
(17:04):
his chance and worked quickly with the I N S
to bar the entertainer from returning to the States. I mean,
think about that. He was holding this over him, really
hold a garage clearly. Yeah, and the plan worked too.
So Chaplin decided to stay in Europe and he didn't
come back to the U S until it was time.
I guess this was in I think nineteen seventy two.
(17:25):
He came back to pick up an honorary oscar that
he'd been awarded. I mean, that's just ridiculous. But you know,
I still think whover strangest target with that old Louis
Louis song that the King's been popularized in the early sixties,
And once that song became a hit, all these rumors
circulated that contained a secret message and had dirty words
if you played it backwards or at a slower speed.
(17:47):
And you know that there are tons of rumors like
this at the time, I mean famously with the Beatles
and and other bands, but uh, there never seemed to
be much to them really. Of course, you could never
convince the FBI of and especially after the entire state
of Indiana Ben Louis Louis from the radio in nineteen four.
That's when the FBI launched this massive investigation to determine
(18:09):
whether or not they were really hidden obscenities buried in
that song, because you know, if there had been, that
would have violated this Federal Code against the distribution of
obscene material toive minors. This is so strange, but I
will admit I love the idea of Hoover and his
g men just hunched over these record players like straining
to find these secret messages, slowing down this stupid song.
(18:31):
But you know, I'm assuming they never found anything, right, Yeah,
I mean, of course they didn't, but you know, it
wasn't for lack of trying. Agents actually listened to the
song at every speed imaginable, and they attended Kingsman shows
and interviewed the band members and even studied the statements
of teenagers who claimed to have cracked the song's codes.
But alas, after an exhaustive thirty months thirty months they
(18:54):
spent on this for an investigation, the FBI was forced
to concede it had been a waste of time, and
that was like a great you some money and records,
but all they had to show for all their efforts
was some wildly off based transcriptions, and lucky for you
and me, those are now declassified documents that anyone can read.
So really, Yeah, so these are some of the actual
(19:16):
lyrics from Louis Louis that I'm going to read to you.
On the ship, I dreamed, she there, I smell the
rose in her hair. And after thirty months, this is
what Hoover's agents thought that line was. And on that
chair I lay her there, I felt my boner in
her hair. She just made that. Yeah, that's what it
(19:38):
actually says, is that terrible declassified government documents. I feel
like it needs to be classified again, I think so.
I mean I like that they were wildly grasping to
figure out what this was. That I do guess that
after listening to the same track for what did you say,
thirty months? I can imagine that you'd start hearing things
(19:58):
after that. Yeah. And while we've mostly talked about the
sillier side of Hoover's paranoia and these surveillance tactics, I
do want to make sure we talked about the serious
consequences of these power abuses, because you don't want those
loss in the shuffle. You know, throughout the fifties and
the sixties, Hoover's lists of terrorists and spies and communist
sympathizers was expanded to include anyone who's like an anti
(20:20):
war protester or civil rights leader or civil rights activist.
I mean, Hoover saw all these people as subversives, and
he saw them as a threat to the stability of
the American government, which is why he resorted to break
ins and wire taps and legal bugs. It was all
a means to cripple their influence. Yeah, and Hoover's treatment
of Martin Luther King Jr. Was especially chilling to me,
(20:42):
and I actually kind of hate reading about this. But
Whover suspected him of communist leaning, so he ordered King's
bedroom bugged, and then he even sent a copy of
the recordings to King and his wife. But probably the
worst part of that was the tape was accompanied by
this anonymous letter that actually encouraged King to bits suicide.
It says, King, look into your heart. The American people
(21:03):
would know you for what you are, an evil, abnormal beast.
There is only one way out for you. You better
take it before you're filthy, abnormal, fraudulent self is bared
to the nation. I mean, I don't even know how
you come up with those kinds of words. It's just
it's it's terrible. But you know, you figure anonymous or not,
the King's had to know these tapes were from the FBI,
(21:24):
and because by this point where it had gotten out
about Hoover's practices, and I just would think it would
be fairly easy to guess on this one. Yeah, I mean,
it is funny. You watched like talk shows like The
View or other things, and and people have such polarized
opinions of Hoover. You know, some people almost regard him
as like an ethical and and saint like character. And
(21:47):
and on the other hand, you hear about these abuses
to someone like Martin Luther King, and and it's just
hard to picture this person as anything but gray. And um,
you know, when you put yourself in Martin Luther King's
shoes too, it's hard to imagine what it would have
felt like to have your own country, like your own government,
gunning for you like that, and you know there's absolutely
nothing you can do about it, right, It's terrifying. I've
(22:10):
actually heard that theory that Hoover was worried King might
go communist. But but there's this biographer, um, this writer
named Richard Hack who actually subscribed to a totally different theory,
and he thinks that Hoover felt insulted because King had
ignored a call from him during the early days of
the Civil Rights movement. And you know, as we talked
about earlier, UM, Hoover could obviously hold a grudge. But
(22:32):
according to Hack, quote from that one unanswered phone call,
for the rest of King's life, he did not have
a free moment from the specter of j Edgar Hoover. Ever,
he tapped him, he followed him. In some sense, Hoover
was jealous of MLK. He had a wife, he had
a family, he had authority, he had respect, he had everything,
and Hoover was jealous. I mean, it's an interesting take,
(22:55):
and I hadn't heard that before. But you know, since
we're starting to theorize a bit about Hoover's mo motives,
I feel like we got to keep the ball rolling
and look at some of the other theories surrounding his
life and his work. Definitely, and of course there are
a ton of juicy rumors out there about someone as
controversial as Hoover, and I bet some folks will be
shocked to learn just how a few of them really
(23:15):
hold water. But before we played detective ourselves, we should
take another quick break, okay, Mango. So earlier we talked
about how Hoover was able to sort of shape the
(23:36):
image of the FBI using pop culture and also just
by virtue of the bureau's more patriotic operations. You think
about rooting out Communist spies and Nazi saboteurs, for instance,
But I got the sense while researching that Hoover was
also a master craftsman of his own image. Did you
get that feeling too, Yeah, I mean it kind of
(23:56):
goes back to that idea of who were not having
a private life, and that was all by design, Like
he was able to foster this air of mystery for
himself that really kept people guessing about his true intentions
and what he might be up to. And this was
true of both in the office and at home. And
while that certainly gave him a leg up in this
political arena where no one was ever truly sure of
what Hoover might have on them, it also made him
(24:18):
the target of plenty of samary campaigns and conspiracy theories right,
and probably the most famous of those is that Jagger
Hoover was gay, that he liked to dress in women's clothes.
And at first I thought these rumors caught on only
after his death, but you can actually see little hints
of them forming back in the nineteen thirties. For instance,
there was a magazine article back then that referred to
(24:38):
Hoover's mincing gait and how it diplomated. A party had
commented on Hoover's quote conspicuous perfume, and then decades later
story started to surface about how someone had seen a
photo of Hoover and an evening gown, or they've been
invited to a secret party throne and everyone there was
cross dressing. But none of these claims were ever substantiated,
(24:58):
and and really a few have even been debunked entirely. Yeah, So,
the most compelling evidence I've seen of Hoover being gay
was his relationship with Clyde Toulson, who was the second
in command of the FBI for over forty years, and
during that time, the pair definitely gave people a lot
to talk about, like they were both lifelong bachelors. They
wrote to work and dined together daily, they vacation together.
(25:21):
They sometimes wore matching suits to the office. Plus when uh,
when Hoover died, he left most of his estate to Tulson,
and at his funeral too, it was actually Toulson who
collected the folded American flag that gets handed out by
the government. But really that closeness is all there is
to go on. Like, Hoover and Tolson were the epitome
of professionalism by all accounts, so if there was anything
(25:43):
romantic between them, they kept it to themselves. And of
course there are plenty of historians that point out that
if the men were actually anything beyond just colleagues, they
probably wouldn't have allowed themselves to be constantly seen together
in public. Like Hoover was just way too discreet and
cautious for something like that. You know, it kind of
reminds me of the case you hear about political science
called non falsifiable hypothesis, which is basically when something is
(26:07):
impossible to disprove because there isn't any proof for it
one way or the other, so you just kind of
went up stuck forever in this state of uncertainty. Yeah,
but more than that, none of it should really matter anyway, right, Like,
I mean, times have changed so much since Hoover's heyday,
so you know, of course being gay or or wearing
women's clothing isn't as scandalous as it might have been
back then. But even without the moral stigma attached talking
(26:30):
about whether Hoover was or wasn't these things really just
distracts from what we know about him for certain, which
is his work. Like there's so much to talk about
their well, definitely, and it does seem ironic that so
many of us are still wrapped up in a guessing
game about the sexuality of a guy who made his
name by spreading these unsubstantiated rumors about people. I mean,
we really can't take him to task for that if
(26:52):
we wind up doing the same kind of thing to him. Yeah,
I mean, I guess that's a good point. I am
curious that how did Hoover's abuses of hour come out
in the end, because obviously it wasn't any rumors or
personal scandals that brought him down, so what was it? Well?
I was curious about this too, because I've known for
a while that it was mostly after Hoover's death, that
a lot of these misdeeds came to light. But what
(27:13):
I didn't know was that it was actually a group
of burglars who got the ball rolling on that. And
that was back in March of nineteen seventy one. This
was just a little over a year before Hoover actually died. Now,
these burglars were were a group of peace demonstrators and
they were hoping to spark a conversation about the FBI's
un checked surveillance power. And so to do this, they
decided to break into a small FBI office just outside Philadelphia,
(27:36):
and they decided to steal as many of Jagger Hoover's
secrets as they possibly could. I mean, this sounds remarkable, right, Like,
it's stunning that this happened. But how did these people
pull it off? Well, part of it was that they
picked the perfect night to pull this heist, because this
was on March eighth, nineteen seventy one, and this was
the night of the landmark fight of the century, you know,
(27:57):
this was between Muhammad Ali and Joe Frasier. So while
the burglars were busy prying open the door of the
FBI office and snatching these files inside you had millions
of Americans just glued to their TV set kind of
watching these updates on that fifteen round boxing match. That's
really amazing. And this plan worked, Apparently they did. The
burglars got away and more than enough evidence with them
(28:19):
to prove that Hoover had been using the FBI to
illegally spy on everyone from peace activists to civil rights leaders,
movie stars, senators, and on and on. But you know,
not long after the break in, the thieves sent this
anonymous package to a Washington Post reporter named Betsy Medsker.
Now inside was a packet of incriminating secret documents, which
(28:40):
naturally Betty wrote about and published in short order. But
the best part was that the FBI never managed to
catch these burglars. Despite Hoover putting more than two hundred
agents on the case, no arrest were ever made, and
the case was officially closed in nineteen seventy six, And
just two years later, Congress passed the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act,
and it made it so that a warrant is needed
(29:01):
to monitor any private citizen. Well, I am glad that
something good came from all of this, And still it's
crazy to me that it took so long for someone
to finally spill the beans on what who have been
doing for like fifty years at that point, I mean,
and all that time, you think that someone would have
tried to find dirt on him sooner rather than just
like gossiping that you know, he may or may not
be gay. Actually, the FBI had been spying on its
(29:23):
own director for years by that point. There were special
agents from the Washington Field office of the FBI that
were regularly assigned to watch Hoover around in secret and
and even monitor his house at night. And the operation
had the name who watched which who was appropriate? Yeah,
but it proved less than effective because of course, I mean,
this is this is jed Or Hoover. He caught on
(29:44):
quickly to the fact that he was being watched. Yeah,
I mean, this just seem that coming right. I don't
think you can out snoop a professional snooper. But I
don't know. That's the old thing. That is the old saying.
We all know that one. But but I am curious,
when it's all said and done, how do you think
we should look back on whover? I mean, it's it's
pretty obvious that school kids aren't going to rank him
as highly as they did in the nineteen thirties, But
(30:07):
writing off his entire career doesn't seem right either. Yeah,
I mean whover his name still adorns the building at
the FBI headquarters, and I actually think that's a pretty
apt metaphor for how to approach his legacy in general. Like,
at one point the name was there as a sign
of respect and a show of honor, but now people
actually say it feels more like a warning of what
(30:27):
not to do. So, even though some members of Congress
have pushed for the name to be removed, and you know,
you can definitely understand why that is, there's this case
for keeping it there as a reminder of both parts
of his legacy. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
In fact, I read this article by a Hoover biographer
named Kenneth Ackerman, and he had a similar take to
what we're talking about here. So here's what he wrote.
(30:48):
Who relieves a bipolar legacy? For better or worse? He
built the FBI into a modern national organization, stressing professionalism
and scientific crime fighting. For most of his life, Americans
considered him ma hero. He made the g Man brand
so popular that at its height, it was harder to
become an FBI agent than to be accepted to an
Ivy League college. But he also stands as a reminder
(31:10):
that forty eight years of power concentrated in one person
is a recipe for abuse. Alright, well, before we close
the book on the cautionary tail that is j Edgar Hoover,
I do think we should dish a little more dirt
on him in today's fact off, although I'm not sure
that either of us are going to be able to
top Tristan's bombshell about Hoover's sleeping with a night light.
But but, but let's give it a shot. So you
(31:40):
started the show by talking about the FBI's irritation with
laugh In and how Hoover really didn't seem to have
a sense of humor. And there's another good story along
those lines, and it's about Mad Magazine, a magazine both
of us loved his kids. So apparently there was an
issue from the mid fifties that are at the Bureau
because it include the silly game about draft dodging, and
the idea was that if you did well in the game,
(32:02):
you were then invited to write a letter directly to
Hoover requesting a membership card that would classify you as
a full fledged draft dodger, and agents actually visited the
Mad offices after this came out in New York City,
and uh and William Gaines, the publisher and the legendary editor.
He ended up writing his own letter to the director,
apologizing and promising never to make fun of Hoover again.
(32:25):
And you know, of course he couldn't help himself, like
he broke that promise a few years later when he
started referring to Hoover as a vacuum cleaner, calling him
the Honorable j Edgar Electrolux. That's good, all right, well,
speaking of comedy, of the many, many things Betty White
has done in her incredible career, one of them was
playing the role of some of the FBI's most wanted
(32:46):
in a show that was called This Is Your FBI.
The show was actually endorsed by Hoover himself, and it
was really just dramatizations of the actual FBI cases. I'm
not sure if this is on Netflix, but we need
to look up the role she played back nine. The
episode was called The Larcenous Bride. I've got to see this. Yeah,
that sounds great. So we've all seen this iconic photo
(33:08):
of Elvis and Nixon together and Elvis's White House visit,
But what many people might not remember is that Elvis
was actually there to petition to become an undercover agent.
So it all letter to Nixon, Elvis wrote, quote, I've
done an in depth study of drug abuse and communist
brainwashing techniques, and I'm right in the middle of the
whole thing where I can and will do the most good.
I mean, that's just such an outrageous statement. But it's
(33:32):
also crazy to think that Elvis showed up for this
like unannounced visit to the White House to see the President,
and he was carrying two guns at the time, like
one was for his own protection, the other was this gift,
I guess for Nixon, And for some reason, the FBI
was impressed enough that they gave him permits to carry
a gun in every state. It's even more surprising when
(33:52):
you consider that the FBI had this file on Elvis
of several hundred pages. But the incident actually helped to
fuel the conspiracy theory that Elvis isn't dead, he's just
gone undercover. Yeah, clearly, I mean, I get it, that's
probably what happened. Well, six hundred pages does seem like
a big file, but it's actually only a third as
long as the eighteen hundred page file the FBI had
(34:13):
on Einstein. I guess his German heritage was always concerning
to the FBI, and they suspect that he might be
a German spy. And so when Einstein got involved in
the Manhattan Project, and FBI reports stated in view of
his radical background, the office would not recommend the employment
of Dr Einstein on matters of secret nature without a
very careful investigation, as it seems unlikely that amand of
(34:36):
his background in such short time became a loyal American citizen.
That's crazy. I mean, it is entertaining to read through
the publicly available files and celebrities. And another one was
the Grateful Dead, which the FBI originally referred to by
saying it would appear this is a rock group of
some sort, which I agree with, and later that, uh,
(34:58):
the LSD originates from Sam Francisco through a renowned rock
group known as Grateful Dead. But apparently there's no real
investigation that ever seemed to be carried out. Wow, so
it all came out of the Grateful Dead all of
the beginning. Well, one person the FBI probably liked a
lot was Colonel Sanders. He was a big fan of
Hoover and even invited him to his birthday party one time. This,
(35:21):
of course, you can find in Sanders FBI file. But
unfortunately for the colonel, Hoover declined the invitation. I mean,
I love to go to that party. Ain't no party
like a Colonel Sanders party, I feel like I think so. Yeah.
But there were some artists who were bold enough to
stand up to Hoover, like John Steinbeck was one. He
wasn't a fan of being spied on, and in one
letter to the Attorney General he wrote, do you suppose
(35:44):
you could ask Edgar's boys to stop stepping on my heels?
They think I am an enemy alien. It is getting tiresome.
And you know, Hoover actually responded to this. He he wrote,
I wish to advise that Steinbeck is not being and
has never been investigated by the Bureau. And of course
this didn't stop the FBI from continue to track Steinbeck's
actions for another fifteen years or so. Wow. You know,
(36:06):
since Hoover's passing Congress has a ten year limit on
being FBI director. Now, of course, Hoover served eight different
presidents and had an insanely long tenure. But even then,
he shouldn't have been allowed to keep the position for
so long because the government used to have this mandatory
retirement age of seventy But then LBJ lifted the restriction,
you know, just for his pal Hoover. Well, speaking of that,
(36:27):
did you know Nixon once tried to fire Hoover. This
was in nineteen seventy one, but he lost his nerve
during the conversation and he accidentally increased Hoover's powers to
expand the FBI's powers abroad. Instead. It sounds like a
failed breakup or thenner or something. But well, here's you
get engaged. Yes, whoops, all right, well here's what I love.
(36:47):
Apparently Jagger Hoover made lots of notes in the margins
of memos. I guess it was kind of his thing.
And once he was handed a memo with a really
narrow margin, and he wrote, watched the borders in the side,
but the age it's who got it totally misunderstood that
he was talking about the page layout and instead started
hounding Border Patrol for suspicious activities. That's really funny. I
(37:08):
love that. And uh, while I normally would say you
deserve the honor, I'd instead like to give it to
Undercover Elvis, who's been working so hard on all our
behalf for so many years now. That just feels appropriate.
Thank you, Undercover Elvis, and thank you guys for listening.
If we've forgotten any great facts about Jack or whoever,
we'd love to hear from you. Part Time Genius and
How Stuff Works dot com. You can always call our
(37:30):
fact hot line seven Fact Hotline that's one eight four
four pt Genius, or hit us up on Facebook or Twitter.
But thanks so much for listening, Thanks again for listening.
(37:52):
Part Time Genius is a production of How Stuff Works
and wouldn't be possible without several brilliant people who do
the important things we couldn't even begin to understand. Tristan
McNeil does the editing thing. Noel Brown made the theme
song and does the mixy mixy sound thing. Jerry Rowland
does the exact producer thing. Gave Louesier is our lead researcher,
with support from the research Army including Austin Thompson, Nolan
Brown and Lucas Adams and Eves. Jeff Cook gets the
(38:14):
show to your ears. Good job, Eves. If you like
what you heard, we hope you'll subscribe. And if you
really really like what you've heard, maybe you could leave
a good review for us. Do we do we forget Jason?
Jason who
Guess what, mango, what's up? Well, so you remember that
show Rowan and Martin's laughing, right, Yeah, of course, Like
my sister and I were huge fans because my dad
had taped some sort of anniversary special for us, so
we used to watch all the time as kids. It
had like Goldie Hawn and Lily Tomlin, Sammy Davis Jr.
Was on it. It was it was great. It is
pretty amazing to see some of those old clips. Well,
in preparation for today's episode, I was reading this twenty
(00:22):
one page report and this thing was filed by the
FBI back in nineteen seventy one because apparently they were
not happy that the show had been making fun of
their untouchable director, you know, the j Edgar Hoover. And
I'd actually never looked at this report before, but it's
actually publicly available online now. And I remember we printed
a story about this in Mental Flaws a while back.
(00:43):
You remember this, So I don't remember the Mentalphi story,
but I do know that the FBI was mad about
the show's actors pretending that they were like talking to
Hoover through this bugged potted plant. Yeah, that was one
of them. And there were a few other sketches, but
my favorite is how ticked off they got it? What
now seems like the most harmless joke. In fact, it
was actually a knock knock joke. Are you ready to
(01:04):
hear this? I mean, you know I'm always ready for
a knock knock joke? Great, all right, here goes then
knock knock? Who's there? Hoover? Hoover? Who Hoover heard of
a seventy six year old policeman? That's it? Yeah, and
that for some reason has really ticked them off. And
in the report that's dumb joke, it's referred to as vicious.
(01:25):
I mean, not only is it like a super mild joke,
it barely feels like a joke, I know, but the
fact that it spawned a twenty one page report is
just baffling. And if there's one thing we know, it's
that you didn't mess with j Edgar Hoover. So today
we're going to take a look back at how Hoover
rose to power, how we managed to expand that power
over several decades, and what that's meant for our country's
(01:48):
evolving relationship to the agency. So let's get started, ye AI.
(02:12):
Their podcast listeners, Welcome to Part Time Genius. I'm Will
Pearson and as always I'm joined by my good friend
Mangesh Ticketer and on the other side of the soundproof
glass showing off his favorite vintage j Edgar Hoover buttons.
That's our friend and producer Tristan McNeil. Now, I do
want to be clear these are anti Hoover buttons from
the look of them. At least you've got what there's
one that says replaced j Edgar Hoover. He's got another
(02:34):
one that says j Edgar Hoover is listening to you.
And I actually can't make out that what you're closer
to a mango. What does that yellow one say? Yeah,
it says j Edgar Hoover sleeps with a Nightlight to
oh Burn, I know it's probably my favorite, but Tristan
was actually telling me about these earlier, and apparently they're
all from the Vietnam were era when Hoover's abuses of
power were first coming to light Well. Sleeps with a
(02:56):
Nightlight is definitely one of the tamer accusations leveled at
who were over the years, and after looking into the
history for today's show, it's easy to understand why he
remains such a controversial figure even today, from playing fast
and loose with civil liberties to collecting secret files on
innocent people. There's no question that Hoover's five decade reign
as FBI director came with some heavy costs for the
(03:18):
nation as a whole. Yet at the same time, it's
also clear that Hoover did a great deal of good
for his country, particularly during the early years of his tenure,
when he helped pioneer many new crime fighting measures. They're
still being used today, and these are things like fingerprint
files and investing in crime labs. So with that dichonomy
in mind, we're going to take a closer look at
(03:38):
the man behind the controversy and try to get a
better sense of both the good and the bad of
Hoover's lifelong reign. Yeah, and I think you hit the
nail on the head when you said lifelong, because you know,
he became director of the Bureau of Investigation way back
in four when he was just twenty nine years old,
and then when the Bureau reorganized and added federal to
its title, this was a nine five. Hoover stayed on
(04:01):
as director for an amazing forty eight more years. And
you know, just to put that run in perspective, keep
in mind that even with lifetime appointments, the longest serving
Supreme Court justice only lasted thirty six years. Yeah, and
you know, when you think about it, that kind of
career dedication, it did come at a steep price for him,
because you know, by most historians accounts, the man really
(04:22):
didn't have much of a private life. He never married
or had children, didn't have any notable hobbies or pastimes,
and there aren't many personal stories from his adult years
to shed life on who he was outside of the office.
And you know, usually it'd be easy to brush this off.
It's just saying it's typical for a workaholic. And some
historians suggest Hoover's lack of a private life was by design, though,
(04:44):
And I mean, for a guy whose life mission involved
collecting dirt on anyone and everyone, it does make sense
that he would have wanted his own life to be
as dirt free as possible. Right, But of course we
know that didn't stop people from cooking up all kinds
of scandals and conspiracy theories about him anyway. And well,
I'm sure we'll get to those later. For now, I
do want to go back to Hoover's early years because
(05:04):
that's really our best chance to get a sense of
his personal life and who he was. Yeah, okay, I'm
done with that, but you're probably gonna have to do
the heavy lifting on this one, because I'm gonna share
with you the two facts I learned about his early life.
One he was born in Washington, D c. In eight
and two he apparently had a bad stutter. That's all
I got. I hope you've got more than that. It
doesn't feel like you really tried there. It is a start.
(05:27):
So Hoover actually grew up just a few blocks from
Capitol Hill, and he did, to your point, have a
stuttering problem. You know, he joins this long list of
famous people who stuttered. His kids, Joe Biden's on this list,
Winston Churchill, Moses was apparently a stutter. Um Marilyn Monroe
apparently her her breathy way of talking was just a
way to slow down her speech, so she didn't stutter.
(05:48):
But Hoover actually did the opposite. He competentated by talking
really quickly. Ain't taught himself to talk super fast, and
in fact, he got so adept at talking that he
joined the debate team in high school, where he was
known for spreading and using his cool, relentless logic, which
I guess sounds impressive until you realize he was arguing
against stuff like giving women the right to vote. You know,
(06:10):
I'm curious, though, what about Hoover's home life. Was he
close with his family or was he always more or
less aloof Yeah, so, Hoover did have two older siblings,
He had a brother and a sister, but he was
probably closest to his mother, and supposedly she was the
family's moral center and also the main disciplinarian. And given
those characteristics, I guess it makes sense that JEdgar Hoover
(06:31):
would have gravitated most to her. I mean, the two
of them stayed super close all through Hoover's life, and
they even lived together right up until her death. She
passed when Hoover was apparently forty three years old. And
so what about his dad? Well, Hoover's dad was this
low level government worker, which which is why they lived
so close to Capitol Hill, And unfortunately, he began to
suffer from a mental illness when Hoover was young, which
(06:52):
put a lot of pressure on his son and also
created something of a riff between them. And as one
of Hoover's cousins put it, Hoover couldn't really tolerate that fact.
He couldn't tolerate anything that was imperfect. It's not exactly
the warmest way to deal with the loved one's illness.
But all right, So that this, this makes Hoover the
breadwinner of his family at this point. So does he
(07:13):
go straight into law enforcement or what does he do next? Now,
Hoover's first foray into public service was actually as a
messenger at the Library of Congress. So he took the
gig in nineteen thirteen when he started attending college as
a law student. And you know, he's the successful upstart.
He gradually rose through the ranks over there for the
next four years. Then, once Hoover passed the bar examp,
(07:35):
he actually quit the library job, and the very next
day he took an entry level position as a clerk
at the Justice Department. But his time working at the
library deeply influenced Hoover, and, as he later wrote, the
job trained me on the value of collating material. He
gave me an excellent foundation for my work in the FBI,
where it's been necessary to collate information and evidence. Huh.
(07:55):
You know, I was actually reading about some of the
innovations Hoover made at the FBI, and one of them
was actually the addition of cross referencing to the agency's
filing system, So you can kind of see where he
got that idea exactly. But as formative as that first
job was, Hoover really started to come into his own
at the d o J. And in fact, just two
years after being hired as a clerk, Hoover had impressed
(08:17):
his superior so much that he was promoted to head
of the Bureau of Investigations General Intelligence Division. And at
this point, the US had entered World War One, so
Hoover's job was largely to gather intelligence on radical groups
within the country. All right, So this is the part
that I feel like we learned about in history class,
because this this is the red scare that we're talking
about now, right, Yeah, And and specifically, there was this
(08:38):
series of anarchist bombings in the US in nine and
one of them damaged the home of the Attorney General
at the time, this guy, Mitchell Palmer. So in retaliation,
Palmer had the General Intelligence Division carry out these raids
to arrest people suspected of being radicals, and over the
course of the next two years, these Palmer rays resulted in,
like the rest of I want to say, thousands of
(09:00):
cused communists and anarchists, and several hundred of these people
were actually deported. Now were these raids legal. It sounds
like Hoover had authorization from his boss to conduct them.
But but did they have this big stack of search
warrants or anything like that. No. I mean that the
raids were definitely illegal, and there were other problems too.
So for one thing, most of the accused turned out
to be innocent, and many of the confessions that were
(09:20):
given were actually highly questionable. They seemed coorced. But luckily
for Hoover, all of that backlash over this abusive power
fell on Palmer, who was eventually forced to resign, and
Hoover meanwhile came away on scathes. But he did learn
a lesson from this, like he realized from watching the
fallout that you want to stay on the good side
of the politically powerful. When it seems like he took
(09:41):
that lesson to heart, actually read that even though Hoover
had about six hundred files on U. S. Senators and
congressmen by the time of his death. The FBI never
formally investigated or charged a member of Congress while Hoover
was in charge of it, rather than making enemies or
drawing attention to himself, who were just quietly collected dirt
on these guys in case he needed a favor from
(10:02):
them down the line. But that's not to say that
Hoover stayed off the public's radar completely. In fact, I'd
say the other big takeaway he had from the Palmer
raids was the importance of protecting your agency's image definitely.
And after Palmer resigned, Whover was quickly promoted to assistant
director of the Bureau of Investigation and then to director
just a few years later. And you know, whoever had
been gunning for this position for a while, and it
(10:25):
just wasn't what it was cracked up to be at first.
You know, the main problem was what you just mentioned.
So the agency was this pr nightmare. It had been
racked by scandal in recent years. The public didn't actually
place that much trust in the people working there, and
in fact, agents weren't even allowed to carry guns or
make arrest until which really shows you how little trust
(10:45):
the public had in them. Yeah, and from what I gather,
Whover really cleaned house when he took over there, Like
he fired everyone he considered to be political appointees or
just unqualified for the job. He instituted the strict policy
of background checks, interviews, physical tests for any new applicants,
and this kind of rigor was applied to everything, not
just hiring. There were some pretty weird rules he had
(11:08):
around there, like, for instance, Hoover even forbade his agents
from drinking coffee at work after eight fifteen in the morning.
Wait why, I don't know exactly, but I imagine it
was some sort of judgment on people needing these stimulants
that late in the work day after eight fifteen is late.
I guess weak agents, I guess so. At any rate,
Hoover whipped the bureau and the shape and Congress began
(11:30):
to take notice. They increased the agency's funding, which allowed
Hoover to develop the first crime lab for gathering and
analyzing evidence. And then, in nineteen thirty five, and pressed
with what Hoover had accomplished and his time as director,
Congress decided to make the Bureau of full fledged federal
agency and keep Hoover as its director. And you know
now that they're finally allowed to carry guns and make arrest.
(11:52):
The FBI actually turned its attention from these radical communist
groups to armed gangsters. So they're going after these folk heros,
pretty Boy Floyd and baby Face Nelson and this obviously
helped the agency's public perception when Hoover's cool, collected agents
started taking down these thugs. Yeah, you know, and Hoover
and his FBI agents were pretty much rock stars by
(12:13):
this point. In fact, I saw this old pole from
nineteen thirty six. There were eleven thousand American schoolboys who
were asked to vote on who they considered the most
popular man in the country. And this is just mind
boggling to me. So the president at the time was FDR.
He managed to land and I think it was like
seventh place, but the FBI director he came in second
(12:34):
second place. I don't even know how many people in
the US, how many school kids especially could name the
FBI director at this point. It's just unbelievable. Yeah, it's
super weird, but it does make me wonder who's in
that top spot. None other than Robert Ripley, you know,
the creator of Ripley's Believe it or not, I mean
that feels hard to believe. Well, times have definitely changed,
(12:56):
but you know, I do want to talk a little
bit more about the FBI's on pre sidented popularity and
I think it really speaks to Hoover's skills as a
PR man, which is ultimately what helped his agency weather
the political storms in the next forty year or so years. Well,
that sounds good to me, but first we should take
a quick break. You're listening to part Time Genius and
(13:27):
we're talking about the life and times of j Edgar Hoover.
All right, mango, So I want to talk about Hoover's
mastery of public relations because in a lot of ways,
he was really the first to bring Madison Avenue PR
techniques to Washington. And to give you an idea of
what I mean by this, I want to share this
quote from Mark am Bender, who is the author of
a book called Deep State Inside the Government Secrecy Industry.
(13:50):
So am Bender writes, quote, one of Hoover's first orders
of business after taking the helm at the newly meanted
FBI was to build an impenetrable shield of public support.
He knew that such support would be essential to surviving
the hostile political waters of Washington, but his efforts went
far beyond a few press releases. He encouraged the creation
of pulp magazines, bubblegum cards, and comics. Likewise, he worked
(14:14):
with Hollywood to produce films about gmen like Public Enemies,
Wife Show Them No Mercy, and the FBI story one film.
Public Enemy Number One even put Hoover in its ad campaign.
I mean, that's ridiculous when you think about Yeah, but
the common image that we have today of FBI special agents,
you know, you think the dark suits, the neck ties,
(14:35):
all that actually comes from these efforts, and it's endured
for you know, you think about it. Now, we're talking
about eighty years or so, and so it's no wonder
that all these school boys were looking up to him. Yeah,
I mean, it is amazing to think what a pr
genius he was. And I I did read up a
bit on Hoover's Hollywood connections, and it's crazy to think
how much sway the studios gave him. He even had
(14:56):
final say on which actors could be cast. So for
Public Enemy, whoever interviewed Jimmy Stewart beforehand and then had
to give his approval before the studio could use them.
I mean, that's especially funny because apparently Hoover considered the
movie It's a Wonderful Life to be communist propaganda. I've
read that before, but it's still just so weird. And
that was right after the movie was released in ninety
(15:17):
I mean, that's super strange. And you know, Whover clearly
like Jimmy Stewart, but the main character in that movie
is the selfless banker in a small town. It's hard
to imagine being against it for being communist, right, Well,
that's true, but the villain of the film, Mr Potter,
he was also a banker. And apparently that was enough
for the FBI to conclude that the movie quote deliberately
(15:39):
maligned the upper class. And it's kind of funny to
read these quotes at this point. And they must have
taken this charge pretty seriously too, because in ninety seven,
the House on American Activities Committee actually held a hearing
about this and there was a film critic there. His
name was John Charles Moffatt, and he was trying to
defend the movie in court. And here's what he said.
He said, I think Mr. Opper's picture, that it had
(16:01):
a banker as a villain, could not be properly called
a communist picture. It showed that the power of money
can be used oppressively and it can be used benevolently. Now, sadly,
Moffitt's defense fell on deaf ears because the FBI didn't
remove the film from its list of suspected propaganda until
nineteen fifty six. I mean, it's crazy to think the
(16:21):
FBI once blacklisted what's essentially the most wholesome holiday movie
of all time. I guess that in a way, like
who never really gave up on that work that he
did with Palmer, Like he continued monitoring anyone or anything
they saw his immoral or unpatriotic or suspect in any way,
especially communist. Well that's true. And actually one high profile
(16:44):
holdover from those Red Scare days was none other than
Charlie Chaplin. Hoover had worried about the British actors rising popularity.
He even tried to have him deported at one point,
that he could never make it really stick. Then then
some thirty odd years later, thirty years later, when Chaplin
left the country to promote his latest movie. Hoover seized
(17:04):
his chance and worked quickly with the I N S
to bar the entertainer from returning to the States. I mean,
think about that. He was holding this over him, really
hold a garage clearly. Yeah, and the plan worked too.
So Chaplin decided to stay in Europe and he didn't
come back to the U S until it was time.
I guess this was in I think nineteen seventy two.
(17:25):
He came back to pick up an honorary oscar that
he'd been awarded. I mean, that's just ridiculous. But you know,
I still think whover strangest target with that old Louis
Louis song that the King's been popularized in the early sixties,
And once that song became a hit, all these rumors
circulated that contained a secret message and had dirty words
if you played it backwards or at a slower speed.
(17:47):
And you know that there are tons of rumors like
this at the time, I mean famously with the Beatles
and and other bands, but uh, there never seemed to
be much to them really. Of course, you could never
convince the FBI of and especially after the entire state
of Indiana Ben Louis Louis from the radio in nineteen four.
That's when the FBI launched this massive investigation to determine
(18:09):
whether or not they were really hidden obscenities buried in
that song, because you know, if there had been, that
would have violated this Federal Code against the distribution of
obscene material toive minors. This is so strange, but I
will admit I love the idea of Hoover and his
g men just hunched over these record players like straining
to find these secret messages, slowing down this stupid song.
(18:31):
But you know, I'm assuming they never found anything, right, Yeah,
I mean, of course they didn't, but you know, it
wasn't for lack of trying. Agents actually listened to the
song at every speed imaginable, and they attended Kingsman shows
and interviewed the band members and even studied the statements
of teenagers who claimed to have cracked the song's codes.
But alas, after an exhaustive thirty months thirty months they
(18:54):
spent on this for an investigation, the FBI was forced
to concede it had been a waste of time, and
that was like a great you some money and records,
but all they had to show for all their efforts
was some wildly off based transcriptions, and lucky for you
and me, those are now declassified documents that anyone can read.
So really, Yeah, so these are some of the actual
(19:16):
lyrics from Louis Louis that I'm going to read to you.
On the ship, I dreamed, she there, I smell the
rose in her hair. And after thirty months, this is
what Hoover's agents thought that line was. And on that
chair I lay her there, I felt my boner in
her hair. She just made that. Yeah, that's what it
(19:38):
actually says, is that terrible declassified government documents. I feel
like it needs to be classified again, I think so.
I mean I like that they were wildly grasping to
figure out what this was. That I do guess that
after listening to the same track for what did you say,
thirty months? I can imagine that you'd start hearing things
(19:58):
after that. Yeah. And while we've mostly talked about the
sillier side of Hoover's paranoia and these surveillance tactics, I
do want to make sure we talked about the serious
consequences of these power abuses, because you don't want those
loss in the shuffle. You know, throughout the fifties and
the sixties, Hoover's lists of terrorists and spies and communist
sympathizers was expanded to include anyone who's like an anti
(20:20):
war protester or civil rights leader or civil rights activist.
I mean, Hoover saw all these people as subversives, and
he saw them as a threat to the stability of
the American government, which is why he resorted to break
ins and wire taps and legal bugs. It was all
a means to cripple their influence. Yeah, and Hoover's treatment
of Martin Luther King Jr. Was especially chilling to me,
(20:42):
and I actually kind of hate reading about this. But
Whover suspected him of communist leaning, so he ordered King's
bedroom bugged, and then he even sent a copy of
the recordings to King and his wife. But probably the
worst part of that was the tape was accompanied by
this anonymous letter that actually encouraged King to bits suicide.
It says, King, look into your heart. The American people
(21:03):
would know you for what you are, an evil, abnormal beast.
There is only one way out for you. You better
take it before you're filthy, abnormal, fraudulent self is bared
to the nation. I mean, I don't even know how
you come up with those kinds of words. It's just
it's it's terrible. But you know, you figure anonymous or not,
the King's had to know these tapes were from the FBI,
(21:24):
and because by this point where it had gotten out
about Hoover's practices, and I just would think it would
be fairly easy to guess on this one. Yeah, I mean,
it is funny. You watched like talk shows like The
View or other things, and and people have such polarized
opinions of Hoover. You know, some people almost regard him
as like an ethical and and saint like character. And
(21:47):
and on the other hand, you hear about these abuses
to someone like Martin Luther King, and and it's just
hard to picture this person as anything but gray. And um,
you know, when you put yourself in Martin Luther King's
shoes too, it's hard to imagine what it would have
felt like to have your own country, like your own government,
gunning for you like that, and you know there's absolutely
nothing you can do about it, right, It's terrifying. I've
(22:10):
actually heard that theory that Hoover was worried King might
go communist. But but there's this biographer, um, this writer
named Richard Hack who actually subscribed to a totally different theory,
and he thinks that Hoover felt insulted because King had
ignored a call from him during the early days of
the Civil Rights movement. And you know, as we talked
about earlier, UM, Hoover could obviously hold a grudge. But
(22:32):
according to Hack, quote from that one unanswered phone call,
for the rest of King's life, he did not have
a free moment from the specter of j Edgar Hoover. Ever,
he tapped him, he followed him. In some sense, Hoover
was jealous of MLK. He had a wife, he had
a family, he had authority, he had respect, he had everything,
and Hoover was jealous. I mean, it's an interesting take,
(22:55):
and I hadn't heard that before. But you know, since
we're starting to theorize a bit about Hoover's mo motives,
I feel like we got to keep the ball rolling
and look at some of the other theories surrounding his
life and his work. Definitely, and of course there are
a ton of juicy rumors out there about someone as
controversial as Hoover, and I bet some folks will be
shocked to learn just how a few of them really
(23:15):
hold water. But before we played detective ourselves, we should
take another quick break, okay, Mango. So earlier we talked
about how Hoover was able to sort of shape the
(23:36):
image of the FBI using pop culture and also just
by virtue of the bureau's more patriotic operations. You think
about rooting out Communist spies and Nazi saboteurs, for instance,
But I got the sense while researching that Hoover was
also a master craftsman of his own image. Did you
get that feeling too, Yeah, I mean it kind of
(23:56):
goes back to that idea of who were not having
a private life, and that was all by design, Like
he was able to foster this air of mystery for
himself that really kept people guessing about his true intentions
and what he might be up to. And this was
true of both in the office and at home. And
while that certainly gave him a leg up in this
political arena where no one was ever truly sure of
what Hoover might have on them, it also made him
(24:18):
the target of plenty of samary campaigns and conspiracy theories right,
and probably the most famous of those is that Jagger
Hoover was gay, that he liked to dress in women's clothes.
And at first I thought these rumors caught on only
after his death, but you can actually see little hints
of them forming back in the nineteen thirties. For instance,
there was a magazine article back then that referred to
(24:38):
Hoover's mincing gait and how it diplomated. A party had
commented on Hoover's quote conspicuous perfume, and then decades later
story started to surface about how someone had seen a
photo of Hoover and an evening gown, or they've been
invited to a secret party throne and everyone there was
cross dressing. But none of these claims were ever substantiated,
(24:58):
and and really a few have even been debunked entirely. Yeah, So,
the most compelling evidence I've seen of Hoover being gay
was his relationship with Clyde Toulson, who was the second
in command of the FBI for over forty years, and
during that time, the pair definitely gave people a lot
to talk about, like they were both lifelong bachelors. They
wrote to work and dined together daily, they vacation together.
(25:21):
They sometimes wore matching suits to the office. Plus when uh,
when Hoover died, he left most of his estate to Tulson,
and at his funeral too, it was actually Toulson who
collected the folded American flag that gets handed out by
the government. But really that closeness is all there is
to go on. Like, Hoover and Tolson were the epitome
of professionalism by all accounts, so if there was anything
(25:43):
romantic between them, they kept it to themselves. And of
course there are plenty of historians that point out that
if the men were actually anything beyond just colleagues, they
probably wouldn't have allowed themselves to be constantly seen together
in public. Like Hoover was just way too discreet and
cautious for something like that. You know, it kind of
reminds me of the case you hear about political science
called non falsifiable hypothesis, which is basically when something is
(26:07):
impossible to disprove because there isn't any proof for it
one way or the other, so you just kind of
went up stuck forever in this state of uncertainty. Yeah,
but more than that, none of it should really matter anyway, right, Like,
I mean, times have changed so much since Hoover's heyday,
so you know, of course being gay or or wearing
women's clothing isn't as scandalous as it might have been
back then. But even without the moral stigma attached talking
(26:30):
about whether Hoover was or wasn't these things really just
distracts from what we know about him for certain, which
is his work. Like there's so much to talk about
their well, definitely, and it does seem ironic that so
many of us are still wrapped up in a guessing
game about the sexuality of a guy who made his
name by spreading these unsubstantiated rumors about people. I mean,
we really can't take him to task for that if
(26:52):
we wind up doing the same kind of thing to him. Yeah,
I mean, I guess that's a good point. I am
curious that how did Hoover's abuses of hour come out
in the end, because obviously it wasn't any rumors or
personal scandals that brought him down, so what was it? Well?
I was curious about this too, because I've known for
a while that it was mostly after Hoover's death, that
a lot of these misdeeds came to light. But what
(27:13):
I didn't know was that it was actually a group
of burglars who got the ball rolling on that. And
that was back in March of nineteen seventy one. This
was just a little over a year before Hoover actually died. Now,
these burglars were were a group of peace demonstrators and
they were hoping to spark a conversation about the FBI's
un checked surveillance power. And so to do this, they
decided to break into a small FBI office just outside Philadelphia,
(27:36):
and they decided to steal as many of Jagger Hoover's
secrets as they possibly could. I mean, this sounds remarkable, right, Like,
it's stunning that this happened. But how did these people
pull it off? Well, part of it was that they
picked the perfect night to pull this heist, because this
was on March eighth, nineteen seventy one, and this was
the night of the landmark fight of the century, you know,
(27:57):
this was between Muhammad Ali and Joe Frasier. So while
the burglars were busy prying open the door of the
FBI office and snatching these files inside you had millions
of Americans just glued to their TV set kind of
watching these updates on that fifteen round boxing match. That's
really amazing. And this plan worked, Apparently they did. The
burglars got away and more than enough evidence with them
(28:19):
to prove that Hoover had been using the FBI to
illegally spy on everyone from peace activists to civil rights leaders,
movie stars, senators, and on and on. But you know,
not long after the break in, the thieves sent this
anonymous package to a Washington Post reporter named Betsy Medsker.
Now inside was a packet of incriminating secret documents, which
(28:40):
naturally Betty wrote about and published in short order. But
the best part was that the FBI never managed to
catch these burglars. Despite Hoover putting more than two hundred
agents on the case, no arrest were ever made, and
the case was officially closed in nineteen seventy six, And
just two years later, Congress passed the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act,
and it made it so that a warrant is needed
(29:01):
to monitor any private citizen. Well, I am glad that
something good came from all of this, And still it's
crazy to me that it took so long for someone
to finally spill the beans on what who have been
doing for like fifty years at that point, I mean,
and all that time, you think that someone would have
tried to find dirt on him sooner rather than just
like gossiping that you know, he may or may not
be gay. Actually, the FBI had been spying on its
(29:23):
own director for years by that point. There were special
agents from the Washington Field office of the FBI that
were regularly assigned to watch Hoover around in secret and
and even monitor his house at night. And the operation
had the name who watched which who was appropriate? Yeah,
but it proved less than effective because of course, I mean,
this is this is jed Or Hoover. He caught on
(29:44):
quickly to the fact that he was being watched. Yeah,
I mean, this just seem that coming right. I don't
think you can out snoop a professional snooper. But I
don't know. That's the old thing. That is the old saying.
We all know that one. But but I am curious,
when it's all said and done, how do you think
we should look back on whover? I mean, it's it's
pretty obvious that school kids aren't going to rank him
as highly as they did in the nineteen thirties, But
(30:07):
writing off his entire career doesn't seem right either. Yeah,
I mean whover his name still adorns the building at
the FBI headquarters, and I actually think that's a pretty
apt metaphor for how to approach his legacy in general. Like,
at one point the name was there as a sign
of respect and a show of honor, but now people
actually say it feels more like a warning of what
(30:27):
not to do. So, even though some members of Congress
have pushed for the name to be removed, and you know,
you can definitely understand why that is, there's this case
for keeping it there as a reminder of both parts
of his legacy. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
In fact, I read this article by a Hoover biographer
named Kenneth Ackerman, and he had a similar take to
what we're talking about here. So here's what he wrote.
(30:48):
Who relieves a bipolar legacy? For better or worse? He
built the FBI into a modern national organization, stressing professionalism
and scientific crime fighting. For most of his life, Americans
considered him ma hero. He made the g Man brand
so popular that at its height, it was harder to
become an FBI agent than to be accepted to an
Ivy League college. But he also stands as a reminder
(31:10):
that forty eight years of power concentrated in one person
is a recipe for abuse. Alright, well, before we close
the book on the cautionary tail that is j Edgar Hoover,
I do think we should dish a little more dirt
on him in today's fact off, although I'm not sure
that either of us are going to be able to
top Tristan's bombshell about Hoover's sleeping with a night light.
But but, but let's give it a shot. So you
(31:40):
started the show by talking about the FBI's irritation with
laugh In and how Hoover really didn't seem to have
a sense of humor. And there's another good story along
those lines, and it's about Mad Magazine, a magazine both
of us loved his kids. So apparently there was an
issue from the mid fifties that are at the Bureau
because it include the silly game about draft dodging, and
the idea was that if you did well in the game,
(32:02):
you were then invited to write a letter directly to
Hoover requesting a membership card that would classify you as
a full fledged draft dodger, and agents actually visited the
Mad offices after this came out in New York City,
and uh and William Gaines, the publisher and the legendary editor.
He ended up writing his own letter to the director,
apologizing and promising never to make fun of Hoover again.
(32:25):
And you know, of course he couldn't help himself, like
he broke that promise a few years later when he
started referring to Hoover as a vacuum cleaner, calling him
the Honorable j Edgar Electrolux. That's good, all right, well,
speaking of comedy, of the many, many things Betty White
has done in her incredible career, one of them was
playing the role of some of the FBI's most wanted
(32:46):
in a show that was called This Is Your FBI.
The show was actually endorsed by Hoover himself, and it
was really just dramatizations of the actual FBI cases. I'm
not sure if this is on Netflix, but we need
to look up the role she played back nine. The
episode was called The Larcenous Bride. I've got to see this. Yeah,
that sounds great. So we've all seen this iconic photo
(33:08):
of Elvis and Nixon together and Elvis's White House visit,
But what many people might not remember is that Elvis
was actually there to petition to become an undercover agent.
So it all letter to Nixon, Elvis wrote, quote, I've
done an in depth study of drug abuse and communist
brainwashing techniques, and I'm right in the middle of the
whole thing where I can and will do the most good.
I mean, that's just such an outrageous statement. But it's
(33:32):
also crazy to think that Elvis showed up for this
like unannounced visit to the White House to see the President,
and he was carrying two guns at the time, like
one was for his own protection, the other was this gift,
I guess for Nixon, And for some reason, the FBI
was impressed enough that they gave him permits to carry
a gun in every state. It's even more surprising when
(33:52):
you consider that the FBI had this file on Elvis
of several hundred pages. But the incident actually helped to
fuel the conspiracy theory that Elvis isn't dead, he's just
gone undercover. Yeah, clearly, I mean, I get it, that's
probably what happened. Well, six hundred pages does seem like
a big file, but it's actually only a third as
long as the eighteen hundred page file the FBI had
(34:13):
on Einstein. I guess his German heritage was always concerning
to the FBI, and they suspect that he might be
a German spy. And so when Einstein got involved in
the Manhattan Project, and FBI reports stated in view of
his radical background, the office would not recommend the employment
of Dr Einstein on matters of secret nature without a
very careful investigation, as it seems unlikely that amand of
(34:36):
his background in such short time became a loyal American citizen.
That's crazy. I mean, it is entertaining to read through
the publicly available files and celebrities. And another one was
the Grateful Dead, which the FBI originally referred to by
saying it would appear this is a rock group of
some sort, which I agree with, and later that, uh,
(34:58):
the LSD originates from Sam Francisco through a renowned rock
group known as Grateful Dead. But apparently there's no real
investigation that ever seemed to be carried out. Wow, so
it all came out of the Grateful Dead all of
the beginning. Well, one person the FBI probably liked a
lot was Colonel Sanders. He was a big fan of
Hoover and even invited him to his birthday party one time. This,
(35:21):
of course, you can find in Sanders FBI file. But
unfortunately for the colonel, Hoover declined the invitation. I mean,
I love to go to that party. Ain't no party
like a Colonel Sanders party, I feel like I think so. Yeah.
But there were some artists who were bold enough to
stand up to Hoover, like John Steinbeck was one. He
wasn't a fan of being spied on, and in one
letter to the Attorney General he wrote, do you suppose
(35:44):
you could ask Edgar's boys to stop stepping on my heels?
They think I am an enemy alien. It is getting tiresome.
And you know, Hoover actually responded to this. He he wrote,
I wish to advise that Steinbeck is not being and
has never been investigated by the Bureau. And of course
this didn't stop the FBI from continue to track Steinbeck's
actions for another fifteen years or so. Wow. You know,
(36:06):
since Hoover's passing Congress has a ten year limit on
being FBI director. Now, of course, Hoover served eight different
presidents and had an insanely long tenure. But even then,
he shouldn't have been allowed to keep the position for
so long because the government used to have this mandatory
retirement age of seventy But then LBJ lifted the restriction,
you know, just for his pal Hoover. Well, speaking of that,
(36:27):
did you know Nixon once tried to fire Hoover. This
was in nineteen seventy one, but he lost his nerve
during the conversation and he accidentally increased Hoover's powers to
expand the FBI's powers abroad. Instead. It sounds like a
failed breakup or thenner or something. But well, here's you
get engaged. Yes, whoops, all right, well here's what I love.
(36:47):
Apparently Jagger Hoover made lots of notes in the margins
of memos. I guess it was kind of his thing.
And once he was handed a memo with a really
narrow margin, and he wrote, watched the borders in the side,
but the age it's who got it totally misunderstood that
he was talking about the page layout and instead started
hounding Border Patrol for suspicious activities. That's really funny. I
(37:08):
love that. And uh, while I normally would say you
deserve the honor, I'd instead like to give it to
Undercover Elvis, who's been working so hard on all our
behalf for so many years now. That just feels appropriate.
Thank you, Undercover Elvis, and thank you guys for listening.
If we've forgotten any great facts about Jack or whoever,
we'd love to hear from you. Part Time Genius and
How Stuff Works dot com. You can always call our
(37:30):
fact hot line seven Fact Hotline that's one eight four
four pt Genius, or hit us up on Facebook or Twitter.
But thanks so much for listening, Thanks again for listening.
(37:52):
Part Time Genius is a production of How Stuff Works
and wouldn't be possible without several brilliant people who do
the important things we couldn't even begin to understand. Tristan
McNeil does the editing thing. Noel Brown made the theme
song and does the mixy mixy sound thing. Jerry Rowland
does the exact producer thing. Gave Louesier is our lead researcher,
with support from the research Army including Austin Thompson, Nolan
Brown and Lucas Adams and Eves. Jeff Cook gets the
(38:14):
show to your ears. Good job, Eves. If you like
what you heard, we hope you'll subscribe. And if you
really really like what you've heard, maybe you could leave
a good review for us. Do we do we forget Jason?
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