July 8, 2025 • 44 mins
James Cameron's Titanic was, by all accounts, a blockbuster success. And, like so many other masterpieces, the story of its creation is a tale all its own. In today's episode, Ben and Noel dive deep into a little-known disaster that struck the already-tense production: someone laced the chowder with PCP, sending a small army of crew and cast alike on a terrifying journey into temporary madness.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to
(00:27):
the show, fellow Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always so
much for tuning in. Let's hear it for our guest
super producer, the one and only Ben the Sleeping Dog Hacket.
Have you heard this nickname, Noel?
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Well, I know Ben's musical output and his incredible record
songs for sleeping Dogs, So I guess it makes sense
if that's what you're referring to.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
Well, as we always want to say when we're talking
about the legendary mister Hackett, this is an appellation that
you have chosen yourself. Correct Ben, just a little easter egg.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Checkout Ben's record. It's really really good. Boy, oh boy, Ben,
we got a topic today. I think we broke our
rule for this topic.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
It's so good.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Oh yeah, we went. We went a little bit closer
to the modern day, just bite two years, but just
by two, just by two right. Uh so uh, we
want to of course, uh, we want to of course
identify ourselves. This is the legendary Noel Brown you're hearing
(01:37):
things with with those dulcet tones.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
You're the legendary Ben bowling with also bringing the Tones, dulcet.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
To oh Geezhus credit game recognized game. We also need
to recognize. Speaking of recognizing game, Jordan the nickname TBD
run Dog, who brought us this amazing topic that I
was tangentially familiar with. Boyle boy as he often is,
(02:07):
wont to do. Did he bring the heat as far
as details around the case of the infamous seafood dosing
on the set of James Cameron's Titanic.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Yes, yes, let's get to it, all right. So the
gist is this one night during the filming of this
epic Titanic, which is based on a true story about
a ship that was considered unsinkable and spoiler alert, did sink? Yeah? Also,
(02:42):
Abe Lincoln didn't have a great time at the play whatever.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
No, I don't know if I'd have quite the reach.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
And the Titanic, by the way, did sink, in fact,
on April fifteenth of nineteen twelve.
Speaker 3 (02:52):
So we're going to use that as our date, our
benchmark date for this nice nice Okay, yeah, that's perfect,
all right. Our buddy James Cameron is often confused with filmmakers.
He's mainly a dude who uses film to support his
weird underwater explorations.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Yeah, okay, fair, fair, that is a reasonable criticism. He
is a bit technology forward and scuba diving and underwater
exploration minded.
Speaker 3 (03:23):
But he's made some bangers. I think Terminator Too.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Is quite good. Many bangers. Yeah, but he's also no
one's friend. I'll tell you that right now.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
Is that true? Have you spoken with Jimmy?
Speaker 2 (03:34):
He's a real pill, not a nice tame apparently a
little difficult to work with. No, that's sort of the
that's sort of the thrust of today's story is that
he is, in fact runs his film sets like a
bit of an iron fisted tyrant, and that God has
the way of rubbing some people the wrong wing.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
Sure. Sure, yeah, a lot of egos in Hollywood, But Nol,
you're my canary in the cavern for a lot of
diplomatic stuff. If you say someone is difficult, you're you're
just so nice, So I would I would take your
word over theirs.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
It is not me alone, my friend saying that this
person is difficult.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
It is a known thing.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
He's actually described in a source that our buddy Jordan
found as the scariest man in Hollywood, which, boy, yeah,
scariest livid. That's right, But to your point, then they
are filming some of the wrap around pieces. You'll remember
if anyone's seen this film. There's the main story of
Rose and Jack and the door and the door.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
There really was room on the door.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
But then there's also the wrap around frame story of
Bill Paxton, the underwater explorer and maybe James Cameron esque
figure if he's casting a sort of a similar person
to what he's all about, and the the the elderly
Rose and this idea of finding this very important diamond artifact,
the heart of the sea, the heart of the ocean,
(05:03):
one of those kind of nice yeah. Yeah, they're filming
those bits in Nova Scotia, Halifax in fact, right, And
people are just really enjoying a little break because, as
we're gonna get to Cameron didn't really go for breaks
too much, even maybe you know, union mandated.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
Ones, and not much else.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
And there is just a delicious stew perhaps of muscles, clams, yeah,
perhaps lobster, described often as a seafood bisk or a
seafood chowder or a clam chowder, and people are just
loving it. They're going back for multiple bowls. They're just
having a good old time enjoying this yummy, this piping
hot dish, and before long people start acting a little funny,
(05:43):
feeling a little funny.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
Yes, just so, and there is a mystery afoot at
the time.
Speaker 3 (05:51):
All right.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
So, as I established earlier, you know what, I'm fine
seeing it on air. I believe in Noel Brown. And
if Noel Brown says you are a pill, then I
will trust Noel over you. People say that James Cameron
has a reputation, as you alluded to earlier, He's a
(06:15):
guy with a lot of enemies. He is not the
best with his bedside manner, which means in the rarefied
era of production that there may be people seeking what
we would call petty revenge. The headline is this, someone
(06:35):
unidentified for the purposes of our show at this point,
sought petty revenge on James Cameron by assaulting innocent people
with hallucinogens via crafty and crafty is just our term
for it's our term for where you eat when you're
(06:57):
doing some kind of production TV or film. He is
a iron fist, as you said, Noel, he is an
iron fist director, producer, a tour we could say. And
he's very intense. He wants everyone to work around the clock.
He's a micro manager. He at this point is using
(07:22):
the production budget of the Titanic film to launch expeditions
under the water to see the actual wreckage of the Titanic.
He's going deep in the water. He built a full
scale model, or I should say his production folks built
(07:43):
a full scale model of the ship off the coast
of Mexico, and they built it to be repeatedly sinkable.
Jordan wants everyone to know that is a story all
its own. The production overall, it costs more than two
two hundred million US dollars in nineteen to the.
Speaker 3 (08:04):
Most expensive production to date at the time. If I'm
not mistaken.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
At the time, you're correct, yeah, yeah, yeah, And all
right we are establishing context.
Speaker 3 (08:14):
Right.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
You are working for this guy, James Cameron. As you said,
he's kind of like a Kubrick level a tour. He
yells at people, he's smacking people. He has a schedule
of an eighty hour, six day work week. Later people
(08:36):
will describe it as quote the closest thing to slavery
that I've ever laid my eyes upon. No breaks. People
are having medical problems due to it as. I love
that you mentioned this military aspect because he's got an
editor named Mark Goldblatt, and Mark says, you don't just
(09:01):
join one of James's films, you sign on for a
tour of duty. And Cameron didn't bucket this. He said,
filmmaking his war a great battle between business and aesthetics.
Can you give us the name of the or give
us the slogan of the T shirt he made?
Speaker 2 (09:23):
I could do that time means nothing in the face
of creativity.
Speaker 3 (09:27):
That's not true, Jim. Time means everything.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
Time is the only currency that we as human beings have,
and you are taking.
Speaker 3 (09:35):
It from all of us.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
I always say that.
Speaker 3 (09:39):
Currency. You sure do, man, you sure do.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
And it is not something that Cameron seems to respect,
or at the very least he believes that it all
belongs to him. But this is not a secret. All
of this stuff is an open secret in Hollywood. From
earlier productions of James Cameron, The Abyss obviously the first
Terminator movie, which was sort of his like.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
You know, kind of almost DIY esque film.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
It was a very low budget. He came from a
background painting models in the Roger Korman school of filmmaking,
So he really does have a background as a hands
on craftsman, which I've always appreciated and respected about the guy.
And he definitely has a forward thinking mind. A lot
of the stuff that he depicts in the Terminator film,
specially T two Judgment Day, about artificial intelligence and sentient
(10:29):
machines and such, certainly seem to be coming to pass
in some way, shape or form.
Speaker 3 (10:35):
So I would call him a futurist.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
I would call him a technologist, And to your point,
been a lot of those things often take precedent over
the fact that he is a filmmaker. People did not
believe that Avatar was going to be a big hit.
People thought it's too expensive, it's blue smurf people, it's
a ripoff of the plot of Dances with Wolves. And
yet the first one was the highest grossing movie of
all time, and then decade or more goes by, and
(10:59):
then all now, I'm releasing sequels to Avatar.
Speaker 3 (11:02):
Why would you do that, James Cameron? People have forgotten
about Avatar. Not true.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
The second one made an insane amount of money as well,
and they're fun movies. He's got a whole wing of
the Universal Studios theme. Parks No sorry, Disney World theme
park devoted to Avatar, so he seems to know what
he's doing. But in order to do that, often people
with that kind of vision can be a bit tyrannical,
So time means nothing in the face of creativity. The
(11:27):
crew actually had their own counter t shirts printed, saying,
Jim's a hands on director and I have the bruises
to prove it.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
Yeah. You can see a New York Times profile on
our buddy Jim that was published during the production of
The Titanic, and it says that he is uncompromising. It's
diplomatic when they call him a perfectionist. They they note
(11:59):
that he as a megaphone and a walkie talkie, and
he's often yelling at people. And there's another relatively concurrent
piece in Premiere magazine where someone says, I can't even
tell the difference between yelling and not yelling anymore. It's
(12:20):
more it's just what does he want and what do
we have to do to get it done. The headline
of that article in Premiere, by the way, is quote
inside the punishing dictatorship that was James Cameron's Titanic set,
and we have to put ourselves back in this era.
(12:41):
Titanic is by all metrics, a phenomenal success. Don't roll
your eyes. It's it's a phenomenal success. It's a it's
a blockbuster. I think we got Celine Dion singing some songs, right,
didn't you do?
Speaker 3 (12:57):
What was that song? She sure did the love theme
from Tipitanic, My Heart Will go.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
On, My Heart Will go On. And I guess that's
what That's what the crew was thinking. Look, there's a
weird energy on the set. There are a lot of
people who are not happy, rightly so with the way
they are being treated. And this guy James is, as
(13:25):
you said, kind of scary. So before they head to
Mexico to shoot the back in time scenes in nineteen twelve,
before they head there, Cameron takes a smaller casting crew
to Nova Scotia and they're filming what we described as
(13:46):
wrap around scenes right the frame of our story that
takes place in the present day of the universe of
the film. This is where we see Bill Paxton. Right,
Bill Paxton, legendary actor undersea treasure hunter, contacted by not
Rose Prime, but the older Rose, and he has found
(14:11):
a sketch of her and he's asking kind of for
the story of this sketch, the wrap around stuff classic
Cameron in terms of dictatorship and tyranny. It's just after midnight,
the last day of filming, August ninth, nineteen ninety six.
(14:32):
Finally this dictator gives the crew and the cast a
break to eat some chowder.
Speaker 3 (14:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
By all accounts, everyone says the chowder was fantastic. Marilyn
mcavey or McAvoy. I wonder if she's related to the
other macavoy there. So there are some like NEPO situations
going on in the story. We've got a Deschanel, the
elder Deschanel, Zoe's dad in the mix as well, but
she's a set painter and.
Speaker 3 (15:04):
Says the chowder was unbelievable.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
This is according to a Vice piece on this debacle
that came out in twenty seventeen. People were going back
for second bowls. People ate a lot more than usual
because it was so delicious. That's when things start going south.
As I mentioned at the top, about fifteen minutes in,
we get.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
The kick in.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
People start acting a little funny, people start feeling a
little funny, struggling.
Speaker 3 (15:27):
To do their work.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
We really start to see things enter crisis mode when
a stand in actress actually passes out, then everyone begins
to scream starts throwing up. We have a comment from
a crew member in one of these oral histories of
the events saying they didn't have experience with drugs, but
the others were saying that it was like the beginning
(15:51):
of an acid trip. I don't know anything about PCP.
All I know is that it has a history of
putting people in like rage hulk mode where they can
get like hit by cars and stuff and they just
go limp like. It does not seem pleasant. Every time
you hear about angel dust or PCP, it's usually involves
(16:13):
somebody doing some crazy violence or injuring themselves, or you know,
just being kind of like some sort of like zombie
type situation. So this is not what I would argue
a particularly fun time party drug.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
No, Yeah, that's on base.
Speaker 3 (16:30):
Roughly.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
The issue here is that for any hallucinogen, your experience
is going to be defined by scene and setting, right,
It's going to be defined by your cognitive state at
the beginning before ingestion, and it's also going to be
informed by the environment in which you encounter a hallucinogen,
(16:55):
and most importantly, it should be consensual. These are innocent
people who are not allowed to consent to whatever happens.
One crew member ask as co workers, hey, you guys
feel okay? I don't I feel like I'm on something,
and this guy classic says, believe me, I would know.
Speaker 3 (17:20):
Yeah, you would.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
A lot of people on the set were certainly experienced,
as the Grateful Dead might say, there is an analog
here with another topic that you and I have discussed
pretty much, pretty at length on our other show stuff
they don't want you to know with our buddy Matt Frederick.
And this was something that the US government actually did
quite a lot of non consensually dosing civilians with hallucinogenic
(17:43):
substances in Operation Midnight.
Speaker 3 (17:46):
Climax or MK Ultra.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
I'm kind of interchangeably referred to that program, which was,
you know, an absolute horror show, because anytime that you
are doing this to someone without their knowledge, the immediate
thought can often me I am am I losing my mind?
Am I having an absolute psychotic break? Which could lead
to some very horrific consequences.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
Yeah, we we see multiple reports from people in the
crew who drank this h or let's say it this way.
They had this experience, right, and at first they can't
explain it. One guy says, or one person says, I
feel toxic and beside myself. Yeah, and that's a very
(18:34):
honest one. And Bill Paxton says, one minute I felt okay,
the next minute, I felt so beat me here, Ben,
I felt so anxious. I wanted to breathe in a
paper bag.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
And I actually saw an interview with Paxton talking about
this where he is experienced, and he talks about it
thus in that way. He just kind of was like,
you know what, I'm just going to ride this out.
And he just cried the six pack and started smoking
joints because he was like, I know what this is.
I don't know exactly what substance it is, but I
know the only way to get through it.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
The only way forward is through.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
So that's exactly what Bill Paxton did as a as
experienced you know, hallucinogen user and stoner.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
And we see people having visual hallucinations. Imagine you're the
steadicam operator and you see colors and fog, right, and
your job is to look at things. So how's that
going to work?
Speaker 3 (19:32):
Streaks in my frame.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
Geez, oh my gosh. So James will be furious, right
if he was not one of the people affected by
the chowda. He's feeling suddenly and distinctly woozy, and of course, naturally,
since these folks are not all, you know, hallucinots, a
(19:55):
word I just made up, that's very kind of you.
This is a lot of people are naturally saying what
happened to me earlier, and they're concluding, maybe they got
some bad chowda, maybe they got you know, some bad shellfish.
Speaker 3 (20:14):
Yeah, James refers to I believe.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
He starts shouting as he was wont to do about
some sort of neurotoxin potentially in play, a paralytic shellfish neurotoxin,
because again he's a bit of a science minded fellow,
so he may or may not know a little bit
about what he's talking about, and he's trying to get
out of there so that he can make himself induce vomiting.
But unfortunately, all of a sudden, he realizes he's so
(20:37):
discombobulated he can no longer find his way out of
this labyrinthine set, to be fair, which he had been
shooting in for weeks.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
He can't find a place to puke.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
You can't find a place to puke. I would just
do it where you stand, buddy. I mean people were
certainly doing that on the Titanic itself. This is something
that is really causing him distress, and Ben, you gotta
do it.
Speaker 3 (21:00):
The thing he.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
Screams is classic camera and it sounds like a line
from Aliens truly.
Speaker 3 (21:06):
In fact, it could well be.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
There's something Eddy, get it out.
Speaker 3 (21:13):
Then the chest burster bursts forth.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
His pal Louis Abernathy Lewis to his friends who played
the character who named after him, Lewis Bodine in the film.
I don't remember that character, but he's apparently here. Suit
he has a line that says, she's a very old liar.
By the way, I have to give Jordan and his
podcast too much information TMI a shot, because they do,
(21:40):
like I believe, a three part history, oral history on
the filming of Titanic, So not just the clamshowder incident,
but like all of this other stuff that was very
much worthy of its own series of episodes, just the
whole chaotic mess that was the filming of Titanic. His
buddy Lewis Bodine said, I was just shocked at the
way he looked talking about camera. One eye was completely red,
(22:03):
like the terminator eye.
Speaker 3 (22:05):
A pupil, no iris beat red.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
This is already a scary dude, and now he's coming
at you looking like that.
Speaker 3 (22:11):
The other eye looked like he'd been sniffing glue since
he was four. That is a very descriptive line.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
Let's spend some time on that, because it is an indication,
as any medical professionals in the audience tonight will know,
it is an indication of something going to ry if
your pupils are not matching in diameter, and that can
imply some very dangerous, very scary and possibly life changing
(22:44):
events in your brain. All right, it can indicate brain damage.
Speaker 2 (22:49):
Well, let's just again mention that PCP isn't some happy,
fun time party drug. It is like it's often referred
to as a hallucinogen, but it's hard stuff. It is
a serious street drug and often you know, enjoyed by
kind of scary people. In my experience, at least, you know,
as I've read about it, and seeing I've never encountered
(23:11):
the stuff in my life.
Speaker 3 (23:12):
Well, I've certainly run in some sketchy circle.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
Well, Ben, right, you and I were talking offline earlier.
You smoked a lot of wet.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
Right, if I'm not mistaken. There's wet, which is yeah,
that's right. There is the old joint dipped in PCP,
and then there's also the shurm stick of lore, which
would be a joint dipped in embalming fluid. But you're
right then the wet is definitely a thing and again
(23:40):
kind of scary people.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
Yeah, this is not the thing you should do to
your friends. You should never dose people with drugs. It's
not let alone people in a professional environment. James Cameron,
by the way, is not having his first psychedelic rodeo.
(24:03):
He was talking, as Jordan points out in Oral History
of Terminator two on the thirtieth anniversary of that film's publication,
and he says, look, when I came up with the
plot idea of Terminator two, I was on ecstasy. I
(24:24):
remember this is a quote. I remember sitting there once
high on e writing notes for Terminator and I was
struck by Sting's song that I hope the Russians loved
their children too, And I thought, you know what, the
idea of a nuclear war is just so antithetical to
life itself. That's where the kid came from. James amazing,
(24:47):
but also ecstasy. I don't know, I'm so square, man,
I'm scared of that stuff.
Speaker 3 (24:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
I don't think of ecstasy as a hallucinogen either, honestly,
like a clubby kind of party drug. I guess it was,
and I didn't think it was super popular in the
era in which Cameron would have been writing this stuff.
I would have thought it'd be much more likely that
he'd have taken a tab of acid or something. But
there you go straight from his mouth to the Ringer's ear,
which I do love podcasts from the Ringer Network. When
(25:15):
Cameron went back to the set, he found that everyone
had left and it was a really eerie, spooky kind
of ghost town of a scene. He described it like
an episode of the Twilight Zone when talking to Rebecca
Keegan for her book The Futurist, referring to James Cameron.
Of course, in an effort to mitigate some of this chaos,
and assistant director had herded everyone into the dining area
(25:37):
where I bet that was a scene, y'all, and divided
them into two groups. We've got good crew and bad crew.
Are you a good crew or are you a bad crew?
It was described like a game of Red Rover. As
soon as someone on the good crew started feeling funny,
they'd switch over to the bad crew side. You gotta
respect the assistant director production assistant mind did organization here
(26:01):
in this situation, right?
Speaker 1 (26:03):
Yeah, So the folks who identify, whether they self identify
or are identified as bad crew, we're looking at sixty
to eighty five people. Again, this is a huge production.
These folks who are not feeling well are loaded into vans.
They are taken away to Dartmouth General Hospital. They are
(26:29):
losing their minds, moaning, crying, wailing, and it's not too
long after they arrive that one of the attending doctors
immediately clocks there must be something afoot. There's clear evidence
of non consensual intoxication of some sort. So the staff
(26:53):
begins distributing liquid charcoal, which, by the way, don't get
in a situation where you need liquid charcoal, but if
you are in a situation, remember that can kind of help.
So the nurses are going to soak up the toxins.
That's the idea, right, So the nurses are hoping this
(27:13):
will counteract the drug. Whatever substance has been dosed onto
the crew. The issue is the time window right the
ingestion of the body, the delivery of the drug. Unfortunately,
these people are already not in the best place, so
a great many of them refuse to follow the doctor's
(27:37):
orders to consume this liquid charcoal. They stay in their beds,
tripping hard. This is a hospital crew that is understaffed,
kind of a skeleton night crew, and they are not
equipped to deal with this like this small army of
people showing up at one am.
Speaker 2 (27:59):
Yeah, whacked up out of their gorge on substances at
the time unknown Marilyn McAvoy again the I believe set
painter I recalled in that interview with a vice. We
all got put in these cubicles with the curtains around us,
but no one wanted to stay in their cubicles.
Speaker 3 (28:16):
This is truly our hurting cat situation.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
Everyone was out in the aisles and jumping into other
people's cubicles.
Speaker 3 (28:22):
Aha. People had a lot of energy. Some were in
wheelchairs flying down the hallways. What a scene. I mean.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
Everyone was high. Packson reportedly was a stabilizing influence. As
I had mentioned, a set decorator named Claude Russell would
recall the beloved star of Twister and Apollo thirteen sitting
next to me in the hallway of the hospital and kind.
Speaker 3 (28:41):
Of digging it.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
Like I said, the only way out is through, and
he was just kind of taking it as it came.
Speaker 3 (28:46):
Good Old Bill Porri p love that guy.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
And here Jordan points out a Cracked article. We love Cracked.
You can check out the creator of Crack dot com
on several episodes of Ridiculus his history. Shout out to
Jack and Miles. You can also check out their show
Daily Zeitgeist Anyway Cracked great writing. A writer named j
(29:10):
M McNabb says the following, and Jordan wants us to
read this in full because it is a hilarious description. Noel,
this is a longer quote, so let's round robin it
now'll kick us off.
Speaker 3 (29:28):
Sure. Great.
Speaker 1 (29:30):
Everyone was so friggin high that they started racing wheelchairs
down the hallway and formed a spirity conga line led
by legendary cinematographer Caleb Deschanel.
Speaker 3 (29:41):
Zoe's dad yep Yeah mentioned that earlier. For sure.
Speaker 2 (29:44):
Caleb, famous cinematographer, as documented in the Camera and biography
The Futurists and We had also referenced the director used
his walkie talkie to radio his ad assistant director while
she was standing directly in front of him. The then
leapt at Cameron and stabbed him in the face with
a pen before being dragged away by hospital staff. All
(30:07):
while Cameron sat bleeding and laughing.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
Paxton, freaked out by the bedlam, quietly ducked out of
the er with a teamster, I love our teamsters, don't
get us guys, and went back to the set, where
he drank an entire case of beer, which he later
told the La Times quote seemed to help.
Speaker 2 (30:30):
The mania in the hospital eventually died down and evolved
into a game of hacky sack. As you know, these
things tend to do. That's the only that's the only
possible outcome as the collective high mellowed.
Speaker 1 (30:42):
So these people ride the wave and they go back
to their they go back to their billets, they go
back to their sleeping places, and they all realize this
is how crazy production is. They all realize when they
come back to ground and that they have to go
(31:03):
to work the next day. Right, you can file a grievance,
but you have to accomplish the mission. One guy says,
all right, I'm gonna grab my guitar real quick. I'm
going to write a song about this, which I you know, Ben,
I think you would love this aspect of making a song.
It's not even a protest song. It's an acknowledgment of
(31:26):
the event.
Speaker 3 (31:28):
Story song. Very Troubadour esque.
Speaker 2 (31:33):
According to Jake Clark, one of the few folks who
actually didn't get laced because of a shellfish allergy, James
Cameron and Bill Paxton were spotted back on set at
four in the morning with beat red eyes. He says, unbelievably,
Jim had a bottle of scotch and Bill Paxton had
a bag of joints because he was a real stone
(31:54):
in the morning.
Speaker 3 (31:56):
Yeah. Well, you know, whenever smoke two joints, and especially
you know this is a special occasion. Let's just say.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
Another actor on set who didn't partake was Susie Amos,
who plays Old Rose's granddaughter.
Speaker 3 (32:11):
Thankfully Old Rose. By the way, the actor who played her.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
Either didn't eat that much or skipped it, or there's
varying accounts that she may have been dining off campus
and so she was okay, because that could have really
done a number on an older person. Amos, however, went
on to marry James Cameron, and Cameron would later joke
around with Vanity Fair that she's always been high on
my list of suspects, which leads us.
Speaker 3 (32:36):
To the who done it of it all?
Speaker 1 (32:46):
Get it high on my list of suspects? So the
good news is that no one suffers any long term
debilitating injuries. This is not going to haunt people for
the rest of their lives. The big questions are what
happens to the principal actors here the Leonardo DiCaprio is
(33:08):
the Kate Winslets. What happens to the mystery? Do we
ever locate or identify the person who poisoned the chowder? Look,
luckily we do have the police show up, They test
leftover chowder and they verify that it is laced with PCP.
(33:32):
Also shout out to Billy Zane, another actor who plays
like the bad guy boyfriend. He later will say, I
wish I was there. Those kids had all the fun.
Speaker 2 (33:45):
Yeah, if you say so. Billy didn't sound like much
fun to me, but I hear you. Billy, of course
was in the past parts of the film, as were
the leads Leo and Kate, so they were gracefully, you know,
not subjected to this horror show. The Halifax Police Department
investigated the case for two and a half years. They
(34:05):
actually issued a warrant for the Department of Health records
and got a list of every single person who had
worked on the set and they can compile the ten
page report, which was actually heavily redacted, but no suspects
were ever identified.
Speaker 1 (34:21):
Ultimately, as a result of this redactive report, however, we
want to say it, nothing shakes out. This mystery remains
unsolved today. No suspects were ever identified by HPD. The
case gets closed in February of nineteen ninety nine. There
(34:44):
are a couple of theories, and I know we're running long.
Speaker 3 (34:48):
But.
Speaker 1 (34:50):
Folks, fellow ridiculous historians, I think it's important to you
just give a couple of pieces of speculation, right.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
One that maybe seems a little obvious and that maybe
I had alluded to at the top of the show,
is this idea of a disgruntled production crew member. Cameron
himself endorsed this theory for years, saying that he has
a good idea of who did it, even though he
couldn't prove it. We had fired a crew member the
day before because they were creating trouble with the caterers.
(35:21):
Interesting he told this to Vanity Fair. So we believe
the poisoning was this idiot's plan to get back at
the caterers, whom, of course we promptly fired the next day.
So it worked, okay, Yeah, man, what a bummer though,
Like the caterers, by all accounts, the clam chowder was
deliciously They're kind of unfair to blame the caterers if
(35:43):
someone dosed the I mean, like I guess, at the
end of the day, someone's got to take the fall.
Speaker 1 (35:49):
It sticks, though, because why did this occur? Cameron himself
acknowledges the motive, or the suspected motive behind this incident,
and he says in that interview we mentioned earlier from
Vanity Fair the following quote, of course, the operating theory
was that I was such a psycho maniac that the
(36:12):
perpetrator was trying to get back at me. He actually sorry,
nailed it, Jim let me a mendez. He didn't say
that to Vanity Fair. He said this on the Q podcast,
which was hosted by Tom Power, and he.
Speaker 3 (36:27):
Said and then caveat at the f out of you.
Speaker 1 (36:29):
Yeah, he said, I reject that theory out of hand
for obvious reasons, And we don't know if he was
yelling at Tom off.
Speaker 2 (36:36):
Mike, I'm reading this in a yelling voice because I
no longer know the difference between yelling and not yelling.
After with this character, we've also got a disgruntled member
of the catering crew as a potential suspect. There's also
the possibility that one of them had it in for
Jimmy c If you guys ever seen the episode.
Speaker 3 (36:57):
Of Home Movies where they go.
Speaker 2 (36:59):
To camp Camp Campingston Falls and they might be giants
or in it, there is a drama teacher in that
episode who talks about having worked in the film worked
in the biz. I worked in craft services for jim
James Cameron.
Speaker 3 (37:16):
He likes fruits.
Speaker 2 (37:17):
I'd ever see him every day and said, I go, hey,
mister fruit, how about some more fruit.
Speaker 3 (37:21):
I'll always remember that. And that is clearly a reference.
Speaker 2 (37:23):
To this incident without actually talking about drugs on a
relatively kid friendly show.
Speaker 3 (37:29):
So, yeah, caterer, disgruntled caterer.
Speaker 1 (37:32):
M Yeah. The theory being that the theory being that
this ought tour yelled at someone in crafting. He was
given a cup of soup that he thought was too hot,
and again this is anecdotal. He threw the soup on
the floor and said, don't you ever serve me boiling
(37:53):
soup again? This is oh my god, Yeah, this is
not This is not Cannon, you know what I mean.
This may be Cameron, but it is not Cannon.
Speaker 3 (38:03):
Doesn't that remind you of that?
Speaker 2 (38:05):
I think you should leave sketch where he drinks the
gaspacho soup and says, it's burning, it's burning my mouth.
Speaker 1 (38:12):
Let me explain something to you. When you expect cold
soup and it's room temperature, it's room timp it's room tis.
He should have gone with the wall.
Speaker 2 (38:20):
That's very much James Cameron moment there.
Speaker 3 (38:24):
Don't you ever serve me blowing souper?
Speaker 2 (38:25):
Beginner's also an excellent clip of Metallica in the studio
with their producer Bob Rock and the drummer who's the
pain in the butt drummer, Lars. The producer's talking to
him about the drums and he accidentally rolls over Lars's
foot with his chair, and he goes.
Speaker 3 (38:42):
Don't you ever do that to me again? And then
the guy goes, wear's some shoes.
Speaker 2 (38:48):
It's a really funny moment. It reminds me of this
exchange as well. However, Earl Scott, the CEO of the
local catering company in question here, who provided the chowder,
he stuck up for his people, as you do.
Speaker 3 (38:59):
When you're leader.
Speaker 2 (39:00):
He spoke to Entertainment Weekly and blamed the production. A
lot of Spider Man fingerpointing going on here, Ben claiming
that it was the Hollywood crowd bringing in their psychedelic shit.
I don't think it was purposefully done to hurt somebody.
We like, it just slipped. Whoops, my PCP fell in
the soup. Better not say anything. It was done like
a party thing that got carried away.
Speaker 3 (39:21):
That is absurd.
Speaker 2 (39:23):
Again, PCP not a party thing, not for consumption of
the general partying audience.
Speaker 1 (39:30):
Yeah, it doesn't hold chowder for me and I think
for a lot of us. The third theory we need
to know is the speculation that there was a disgruntled
local who pulled a prank, who wanted to get over
on Hollywood just for the lulls. There's no evidence to
(39:53):
support this. As we're recording now on July third, beautiful
Thursday here in twenty twenty five. The case remains closed.
The perpetrator has not been found. There are a couple
of folks who have tried to get more information from Halifax.
Speaker 2 (40:14):
Right Tricia Ralph, Commissioner reviewed the redactions and concluded the
Halifax Police were not justified and withholding information related to
law enforcement tactics and inter governmental affairs, especially since the
material exceeds the fifteen year protection window. However, some of
that personal data will go on to remain redacted. Ralph
(40:36):
ordered the remaining details to be made public. The police
were expected to release details in May of twenty twenty four,
but so far have not done so curious.
Speaker 1 (40:46):
We do have one kind of cool update from our
research associate, Jordan. I just can't say enough good stuff
about this guy. He's a regular Ben Hackett, Ben's sleeping
dog Hackett, this guy. Horden notes that the production team
had an update of their own. They made T shirts.
(41:07):
I love it when people make T shirts. And the
T shirt shows an image of the Titanic sinking into
a big bowl of chowder, and the logo says bad Crew.
Going back to what I was saying earlier about good
and bad crew.
Speaker 3 (41:24):
Be divided crew bad crew. Yeah, yeah, Do you want
to give the sun Stairs situation?
Speaker 1 (41:29):
Yeah? You want to give the final word to Jimmy
c himself.
Speaker 2 (41:33):
I guess we must, since he is the boss. He
told the Canadian podcast Q with Tom Power that we
referenced before in twenty twenty three, a bit of a
mixed message here, not gonna lie. He said, you haven't
lived until you've been high on PCP, which, by the way,
I do not recommend anyone beautiful. Really, what do you
really mean, Jim, What are you really thinking? Yeah, he's
(41:55):
an odd character that Jim Cameron. Not happy with the
way Christopher Nolan portrayed the atomic bomb. He's been, you know,
very outspoken recently, saying he thought it was a cop
out the way that Nolan failed to his mind adequately
show the horror and literal fallout of you know, Oppenheimer's creation.
(42:20):
I know I haven't seen the movie actually, but apparently
there is a scene that sort of art Sallee kind
of shows some charred bodies in the audience, says Oppenheimer's
giving a big keynote address of some kind and I
guess that was a choice, but Cameron didn't like that.
But we also know that Cameron's someone who is really
spent a lot of time thinking about nuclear holocaust, so
(42:40):
I could see that.
Speaker 1 (42:41):
Are you Accusie James Cameron of being outspoken?
Speaker 3 (42:46):
He has a bit outspoken.
Speaker 2 (42:48):
I do highly recommend listening to the interviews that he
did with The Ringer. He's been on a couple of
the different shows I want to say, the big Picture,
and then of course there is this oral history that
Jordan was referencing.
Speaker 3 (42:59):
But he's we got some really interesting takes.
Speaker 2 (43:01):
On the state of AI and I think he's coming
from a pretty educated place on that.
Speaker 3 (43:05):
So do check it out.
Speaker 1 (43:07):
And thank you for checking out this episode of Ridiculous History.
Big big thanks to our super producer Audit Ventures, mister
Max Williams, Big big thanks to the legendary Ben the
Sleeping Dog Hackett, our guest superproducer, Big thanks to aj
Bahama's Jacobs Jonathan Strickland aka the Quister, who, by the way, folks,
(43:32):
I made sure I could say this on air. Just
had a birthday like a person.
Speaker 3 (43:39):
Yeah it happens. Happy New Year, as you would say Ben.
Speaker 2 (43:42):
Huge thanks to Christoph Rasiotis and Eves Jeff Coates here
in Spirit. Oh and again just another huge thanks to
Jordan run Talk who just absolutely killed it on this episode.
Outline and do check out his podcast DMI Too.
Speaker 3 (43:57):
Much Information, which is a lovely and educational listen. Agreed,
We'll see you next time, folks.
Speaker 2 (44:03):
For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to
(00:27):
the show, fellow Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always so
much for tuning in. Let's hear it for our guest
super producer, the one and only Ben the Sleeping Dog Hacket.
Have you heard this nickname, Noel?
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Well, I know Ben's musical output and his incredible record
songs for sleeping Dogs, So I guess it makes sense
if that's what you're referring to.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
Well, as we always want to say when we're talking
about the legendary mister Hackett, this is an appellation that
you have chosen yourself. Correct Ben, just a little easter egg.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Checkout Ben's record. It's really really good. Boy, oh boy, Ben,
we got a topic today. I think we broke our
rule for this topic.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
It's so good.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Oh yeah, we went. We went a little bit closer
to the modern day, just bite two years, but just
by two, just by two right. Uh so uh, we
want to of course, uh, we want to of course
identify ourselves. This is the legendary Noel Brown you're hearing
(01:37):
things with with those dulcet tones.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
You're the legendary Ben bowling with also bringing the Tones, dulcet.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
To oh Geezhus credit game recognized game. We also need
to recognize. Speaking of recognizing game, Jordan the nickname TBD
run Dog, who brought us this amazing topic that I
was tangentially familiar with. Boyle boy as he often is,
(02:07):
wont to do. Did he bring the heat as far
as details around the case of the infamous seafood dosing
on the set of James Cameron's Titanic.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Yes, yes, let's get to it, all right. So the
gist is this one night during the filming of this
epic Titanic, which is based on a true story about
a ship that was considered unsinkable and spoiler alert, did sink? Yeah? Also,
(02:42):
Abe Lincoln didn't have a great time at the play whatever.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
No, I don't know if I'd have quite the reach.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
And the Titanic, by the way, did sink, in fact,
on April fifteenth of nineteen twelve.
Speaker 3 (02:52):
So we're going to use that as our date, our
benchmark date for this nice nice Okay, yeah, that's perfect,
all right. Our buddy James Cameron is often confused with filmmakers.
He's mainly a dude who uses film to support his
weird underwater explorations.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Yeah, okay, fair, fair, that is a reasonable criticism. He
is a bit technology forward and scuba diving and underwater
exploration minded.
Speaker 3 (03:23):
But he's made some bangers. I think Terminator Too.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Is quite good. Many bangers. Yeah, but he's also no
one's friend. I'll tell you that right now.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
Is that true? Have you spoken with Jimmy?
Speaker 2 (03:34):
He's a real pill, not a nice tame apparently a
little difficult to work with. No, that's sort of the
that's sort of the thrust of today's story is that
he is, in fact runs his film sets like a
bit of an iron fisted tyrant, and that God has
the way of rubbing some people the wrong wing.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
Sure. Sure, yeah, a lot of egos in Hollywood, But Nol,
you're my canary in the cavern for a lot of
diplomatic stuff. If you say someone is difficult, you're you're
just so nice, So I would I would take your
word over theirs.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
It is not me alone, my friend saying that this
person is difficult.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
It is a known thing.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
He's actually described in a source that our buddy Jordan
found as the scariest man in Hollywood, which, boy, yeah,
scariest livid. That's right, But to your point, then they
are filming some of the wrap around pieces. You'll remember
if anyone's seen this film. There's the main story of
Rose and Jack and the door and the door.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
There really was room on the door.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
But then there's also the wrap around frame story of
Bill Paxton, the underwater explorer and maybe James Cameron esque
figure if he's casting a sort of a similar person
to what he's all about, and the the the elderly
Rose and this idea of finding this very important diamond artifact,
the heart of the sea, the heart of the ocean,
(05:03):
one of those kind of nice yeah. Yeah, they're filming
those bits in Nova Scotia, Halifax in fact, right, And
people are just really enjoying a little break because, as
we're gonna get to Cameron didn't really go for breaks
too much, even maybe you know, union mandated.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
Ones, and not much else.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
And there is just a delicious stew perhaps of muscles, clams, yeah,
perhaps lobster, described often as a seafood bisk or a
seafood chowder or a clam chowder, and people are just
loving it. They're going back for multiple bowls. They're just
having a good old time enjoying this yummy, this piping
hot dish, and before long people start acting a little funny,
(05:43):
feeling a little funny.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
Yes, just so, and there is a mystery afoot at
the time.
Speaker 3 (05:51):
All right.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
So, as I established earlier, you know what, I'm fine
seeing it on air. I believe in Noel Brown. And
if Noel Brown says you are a pill, then I
will trust Noel over you. People say that James Cameron
has a reputation, as you alluded to earlier, He's a
(06:15):
guy with a lot of enemies. He is not the
best with his bedside manner, which means in the rarefied
era of production that there may be people seeking what
we would call petty revenge. The headline is this, someone
(06:35):
unidentified for the purposes of our show at this point,
sought petty revenge on James Cameron by assaulting innocent people
with hallucinogens via crafty and crafty is just our term
for it's our term for where you eat when you're
(06:57):
doing some kind of production TV or film. He is
a iron fist, as you said, Noel, he is an
iron fist director, producer, a tour we could say. And
he's very intense. He wants everyone to work around the clock.
He's a micro manager. He at this point is using
(07:22):
the production budget of the Titanic film to launch expeditions
under the water to see the actual wreckage of the Titanic.
He's going deep in the water. He built a full
scale model, or I should say his production folks built
(07:43):
a full scale model of the ship off the coast
of Mexico, and they built it to be repeatedly sinkable.
Jordan wants everyone to know that is a story all
its own. The production overall, it costs more than two
two hundred million US dollars in nineteen to the.
Speaker 3 (08:04):
Most expensive production to date at the time. If I'm
not mistaken.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
At the time, you're correct, yeah, yeah, yeah, And all
right we are establishing context.
Speaker 3 (08:14):
Right.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
You are working for this guy, James Cameron. As you said,
he's kind of like a Kubrick level a tour. He
yells at people, he's smacking people. He has a schedule
of an eighty hour, six day work week. Later people
(08:36):
will describe it as quote the closest thing to slavery
that I've ever laid my eyes upon. No breaks. People
are having medical problems due to it as. I love
that you mentioned this military aspect because he's got an
editor named Mark Goldblatt, and Mark says, you don't just
(09:01):
join one of James's films, you sign on for a
tour of duty. And Cameron didn't bucket this. He said,
filmmaking his war a great battle between business and aesthetics.
Can you give us the name of the or give
us the slogan of the T shirt he made?
Speaker 2 (09:23):
I could do that time means nothing in the face
of creativity.
Speaker 3 (09:27):
That's not true, Jim. Time means everything.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
Time is the only currency that we as human beings have,
and you are taking.
Speaker 3 (09:35):
It from all of us.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
I always say that.
Speaker 3 (09:39):
Currency. You sure do, man, you sure do.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
And it is not something that Cameron seems to respect,
or at the very least he believes that it all
belongs to him. But this is not a secret. All
of this stuff is an open secret in Hollywood. From
earlier productions of James Cameron, The Abyss obviously the first
Terminator movie, which was sort of his like.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
You know, kind of almost DIY esque film.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
It was a very low budget. He came from a
background painting models in the Roger Korman school of filmmaking,
So he really does have a background as a hands
on craftsman, which I've always appreciated and respected about the guy.
And he definitely has a forward thinking mind. A lot
of the stuff that he depicts in the Terminator film,
specially T two Judgment Day, about artificial intelligence and sentient
(10:29):
machines and such, certainly seem to be coming to pass
in some way, shape or form.
Speaker 3 (10:35):
So I would call him a futurist.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
I would call him a technologist, And to your point,
been a lot of those things often take precedent over
the fact that he is a filmmaker. People did not
believe that Avatar was going to be a big hit.
People thought it's too expensive, it's blue smurf people, it's
a ripoff of the plot of Dances with Wolves. And
yet the first one was the highest grossing movie of
all time, and then decade or more goes by, and
(10:59):
then all now, I'm releasing sequels to Avatar.
Speaker 3 (11:02):
Why would you do that, James Cameron? People have forgotten
about Avatar. Not true.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
The second one made an insane amount of money as well,
and they're fun movies. He's got a whole wing of
the Universal Studios theme. Parks No sorry, Disney World theme
park devoted to Avatar, so he seems to know what
he's doing. But in order to do that, often people
with that kind of vision can be a bit tyrannical,
So time means nothing in the face of creativity. The
(11:27):
crew actually had their own counter t shirts printed, saying,
Jim's a hands on director and I have the bruises
to prove it.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
Yeah. You can see a New York Times profile on
our buddy Jim that was published during the production of
The Titanic, and it says that he is uncompromising. It's
diplomatic when they call him a perfectionist. They they note
(11:59):
that he as a megaphone and a walkie talkie, and
he's often yelling at people. And there's another relatively concurrent
piece in Premiere magazine where someone says, I can't even
tell the difference between yelling and not yelling anymore. It's
(12:20):
more it's just what does he want and what do
we have to do to get it done. The headline
of that article in Premiere, by the way, is quote
inside the punishing dictatorship that was James Cameron's Titanic set,
and we have to put ourselves back in this era.
(12:41):
Titanic is by all metrics, a phenomenal success. Don't roll
your eyes. It's it's a phenomenal success. It's a it's
a blockbuster. I think we got Celine Dion singing some songs, right,
didn't you do?
Speaker 3 (12:57):
What was that song? She sure did the love theme
from Tipitanic, My Heart Will go.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
On, My Heart Will go On. And I guess that's
what That's what the crew was thinking. Look, there's a
weird energy on the set. There are a lot of
people who are not happy, rightly so with the way
they are being treated. And this guy James is, as
(13:25):
you said, kind of scary. So before they head to
Mexico to shoot the back in time scenes in nineteen twelve,
before they head there, Cameron takes a smaller casting crew
to Nova Scotia and they're filming what we described as
(13:46):
wrap around scenes right the frame of our story that
takes place in the present day of the universe of
the film. This is where we see Bill Paxton. Right,
Bill Paxton, legendary actor undersea treasure hunter, contacted by not
Rose Prime, but the older Rose, and he has found
(14:11):
a sketch of her and he's asking kind of for
the story of this sketch, the wrap around stuff classic
Cameron in terms of dictatorship and tyranny. It's just after midnight,
the last day of filming, August ninth, nineteen ninety six.
(14:32):
Finally this dictator gives the crew and the cast a
break to eat some chowder.
Speaker 3 (14:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
By all accounts, everyone says the chowder was fantastic. Marilyn
mcavey or McAvoy. I wonder if she's related to the
other macavoy there. So there are some like NEPO situations
going on in the story. We've got a Deschanel, the
elder Deschanel, Zoe's dad in the mix as well, but
she's a set painter and.
Speaker 3 (15:04):
Says the chowder was unbelievable.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
This is according to a Vice piece on this debacle
that came out in twenty seventeen. People were going back
for second bowls. People ate a lot more than usual
because it was so delicious. That's when things start going south.
As I mentioned at the top, about fifteen minutes in,
we get.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
The kick in.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
People start acting a little funny, people start feeling a
little funny, struggling.
Speaker 3 (15:27):
To do their work.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
We really start to see things enter crisis mode when
a stand in actress actually passes out, then everyone begins
to scream starts throwing up. We have a comment from
a crew member in one of these oral histories of
the events saying they didn't have experience with drugs, but
the others were saying that it was like the beginning
(15:51):
of an acid trip. I don't know anything about PCP.
All I know is that it has a history of
putting people in like rage hulk mode where they can
get like hit by cars and stuff and they just
go limp like. It does not seem pleasant. Every time
you hear about angel dust or PCP, it's usually involves
(16:13):
somebody doing some crazy violence or injuring themselves, or you know,
just being kind of like some sort of like zombie
type situation. So this is not what I would argue
a particularly fun time party drug.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
No, Yeah, that's on base.
Speaker 3 (16:30):
Roughly.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
The issue here is that for any hallucinogen, your experience
is going to be defined by scene and setting, right,
It's going to be defined by your cognitive state at
the beginning before ingestion, and it's also going to be
informed by the environment in which you encounter a hallucinogen,
(16:55):
and most importantly, it should be consensual. These are innocent
people who are not allowed to consent to whatever happens.
One crew member ask as co workers, hey, you guys
feel okay? I don't I feel like I'm on something,
and this guy classic says, believe me, I would know.
Speaker 3 (17:20):
Yeah, you would.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
A lot of people on the set were certainly experienced,
as the Grateful Dead might say, there is an analog
here with another topic that you and I have discussed
pretty much, pretty at length on our other show stuff
they don't want you to know with our buddy Matt Frederick.
And this was something that the US government actually did
quite a lot of non consensually dosing civilians with hallucinogenic
(17:43):
substances in Operation Midnight.
Speaker 3 (17:46):
Climax or MK Ultra.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
I'm kind of interchangeably referred to that program, which was,
you know, an absolute horror show, because anytime that you
are doing this to someone without their knowledge, the immediate
thought can often me I am am I losing my mind?
Am I having an absolute psychotic break? Which could lead
to some very horrific consequences.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
Yeah, we we see multiple reports from people in the
crew who drank this h or let's say it this way.
They had this experience, right, and at first they can't
explain it. One guy says, or one person says, I
feel toxic and beside myself. Yeah, and that's a very
(18:34):
honest one. And Bill Paxton says, one minute I felt okay,
the next minute, I felt so beat me here, Ben,
I felt so anxious. I wanted to breathe in a
paper bag.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
And I actually saw an interview with Paxton talking about
this where he is experienced, and he talks about it
thus in that way. He just kind of was like,
you know what, I'm just going to ride this out.
And he just cried the six pack and started smoking
joints because he was like, I know what this is.
I don't know exactly what substance it is, but I
know the only way to get through it.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
The only way forward is through.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
So that's exactly what Bill Paxton did as a as
experienced you know, hallucinogen user and stoner.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
And we see people having visual hallucinations. Imagine you're the
steadicam operator and you see colors and fog, right, and
your job is to look at things. So how's that
going to work?
Speaker 3 (19:32):
Streaks in my frame.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
Geez, oh my gosh. So James will be furious, right
if he was not one of the people affected by
the chowda. He's feeling suddenly and distinctly woozy, and of course, naturally,
since these folks are not all, you know, hallucinots, a
(19:55):
word I just made up, that's very kind of you.
This is a lot of people are naturally saying what
happened to me earlier, and they're concluding, maybe they got
some bad chowda, maybe they got you know, some bad shellfish.
Speaker 3 (20:14):
Yeah, James refers to I believe.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
He starts shouting as he was wont to do about
some sort of neurotoxin potentially in play, a paralytic shellfish neurotoxin,
because again he's a bit of a science minded fellow,
so he may or may not know a little bit
about what he's talking about, and he's trying to get
out of there so that he can make himself induce vomiting.
But unfortunately, all of a sudden, he realizes he's so
(20:37):
discombobulated he can no longer find his way out of
this labyrinthine set, to be fair, which he had been
shooting in for weeks.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
He can't find a place to puke.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
You can't find a place to puke. I would just
do it where you stand, buddy. I mean people were
certainly doing that on the Titanic itself. This is something
that is really causing him distress, and Ben, you gotta
do it.
Speaker 3 (21:00):
The thing he.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
Screams is classic camera and it sounds like a line
from Aliens truly.
Speaker 3 (21:06):
In fact, it could well be.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
There's something Eddy, get it out.
Speaker 3 (21:13):
Then the chest burster bursts forth.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
His pal Louis Abernathy Lewis to his friends who played
the character who named after him, Lewis Bodine in the film.
I don't remember that character, but he's apparently here. Suit
he has a line that says, she's a very old liar.
By the way, I have to give Jordan and his
podcast too much information TMI a shot, because they do,
(21:40):
like I believe, a three part history, oral history on
the filming of Titanic, So not just the clamshowder incident,
but like all of this other stuff that was very
much worthy of its own series of episodes, just the
whole chaotic mess that was the filming of Titanic. His
buddy Lewis Bodine said, I was just shocked at the
way he looked talking about camera. One eye was completely red,
(22:03):
like the terminator eye.
Speaker 3 (22:05):
A pupil, no iris beat red.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
This is already a scary dude, and now he's coming
at you looking like that.
Speaker 3 (22:11):
The other eye looked like he'd been sniffing glue since
he was four. That is a very descriptive line.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
Let's spend some time on that, because it is an indication,
as any medical professionals in the audience tonight will know,
it is an indication of something going to ry if
your pupils are not matching in diameter, and that can
imply some very dangerous, very scary and possibly life changing
(22:44):
events in your brain. All right, it can indicate brain damage.
Speaker 2 (22:49):
Well, let's just again mention that PCP isn't some happy,
fun time party drug. It is like it's often referred
to as a hallucinogen, but it's hard stuff. It is
a serious street drug and often you know, enjoyed by
kind of scary people. In my experience, at least, you know,
as I've read about it, and seeing I've never encountered
(23:11):
the stuff in my life.
Speaker 3 (23:12):
Well, I've certainly run in some sketchy circle.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
Well, Ben, right, you and I were talking offline earlier.
You smoked a lot of wet.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
Right, if I'm not mistaken. There's wet, which is yeah,
that's right. There is the old joint dipped in PCP,
and then there's also the shurm stick of lore, which
would be a joint dipped in embalming fluid. But you're
right then the wet is definitely a thing and again
(23:40):
kind of scary people.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
Yeah, this is not the thing you should do to
your friends. You should never dose people with drugs. It's
not let alone people in a professional environment. James Cameron,
by the way, is not having his first psychedelic rodeo.
(24:03):
He was talking, as Jordan points out in Oral History
of Terminator two on the thirtieth anniversary of that film's publication,
and he says, look, when I came up with the
plot idea of Terminator two, I was on ecstasy. I
(24:24):
remember this is a quote. I remember sitting there once
high on e writing notes for Terminator and I was
struck by Sting's song that I hope the Russians loved
their children too, And I thought, you know what, the
idea of a nuclear war is just so antithetical to
life itself. That's where the kid came from. James amazing,
(24:47):
but also ecstasy. I don't know, I'm so square, man,
I'm scared of that stuff.
Speaker 3 (24:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
I don't think of ecstasy as a hallucinogen either, honestly,
like a clubby kind of party drug. I guess it was,
and I didn't think it was super popular in the
era in which Cameron would have been writing this stuff.
I would have thought it'd be much more likely that
he'd have taken a tab of acid or something. But
there you go straight from his mouth to the Ringer's ear,
which I do love podcasts from the Ringer Network. When
(25:15):
Cameron went back to the set, he found that everyone
had left and it was a really eerie, spooky kind
of ghost town of a scene. He described it like
an episode of the Twilight Zone when talking to Rebecca
Keegan for her book The Futurist, referring to James Cameron.
Of course, in an effort to mitigate some of this chaos,
and assistant director had herded everyone into the dining area
(25:37):
where I bet that was a scene, y'all, and divided
them into two groups. We've got good crew and bad crew.
Are you a good crew or are you a bad crew?
It was described like a game of Red Rover. As
soon as someone on the good crew started feeling funny,
they'd switch over to the bad crew side. You gotta
respect the assistant director production assistant mind did organization here
(26:01):
in this situation, right?
Speaker 1 (26:03):
Yeah, So the folks who identify, whether they self identify
or are identified as bad crew, we're looking at sixty
to eighty five people. Again, this is a huge production.
These folks who are not feeling well are loaded into vans.
They are taken away to Dartmouth General Hospital. They are
(26:29):
losing their minds, moaning, crying, wailing, and it's not too
long after they arrive that one of the attending doctors
immediately clocks there must be something afoot. There's clear evidence
of non consensual intoxication of some sort. So the staff
(26:53):
begins distributing liquid charcoal, which, by the way, don't get
in a situation where you need liquid charcoal, but if
you are in a situation, remember that can kind of help.
So the nurses are going to soak up the toxins.
That's the idea, right, So the nurses are hoping this
(27:13):
will counteract the drug. Whatever substance has been dosed onto
the crew. The issue is the time window right the
ingestion of the body, the delivery of the drug. Unfortunately,
these people are already not in the best place, so
a great many of them refuse to follow the doctor's
(27:37):
orders to consume this liquid charcoal. They stay in their beds,
tripping hard. This is a hospital crew that is understaffed,
kind of a skeleton night crew, and they are not
equipped to deal with this like this small army of
people showing up at one am.
Speaker 2 (27:59):
Yeah, whacked up out of their gorge on substances at
the time unknown Marilyn McAvoy again the I believe set
painter I recalled in that interview with a vice. We
all got put in these cubicles with the curtains around us,
but no one wanted to stay in their cubicles.
Speaker 3 (28:16):
This is truly our hurting cat situation.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
Everyone was out in the aisles and jumping into other
people's cubicles.
Speaker 3 (28:22):
Aha. People had a lot of energy. Some were in
wheelchairs flying down the hallways. What a scene. I mean.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
Everyone was high. Packson reportedly was a stabilizing influence. As
I had mentioned, a set decorator named Claude Russell would
recall the beloved star of Twister and Apollo thirteen sitting
next to me in the hallway of the hospital and kind.
Speaker 3 (28:41):
Of digging it.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
Like I said, the only way out is through, and
he was just kind of taking it as it came.
Speaker 3 (28:46):
Good Old Bill Porri p love that guy.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
And here Jordan points out a Cracked article. We love Cracked.
You can check out the creator of Crack dot com
on several episodes of Ridiculus his history. Shout out to
Jack and Miles. You can also check out their show
Daily Zeitgeist Anyway Cracked great writing. A writer named j
(29:10):
M McNabb says the following, and Jordan wants us to
read this in full because it is a hilarious description. Noel,
this is a longer quote, so let's round robin it
now'll kick us off.
Speaker 3 (29:28):
Sure. Great.
Speaker 1 (29:30):
Everyone was so friggin high that they started racing wheelchairs
down the hallway and formed a spirity conga line led
by legendary cinematographer Caleb Deschanel.
Speaker 3 (29:41):
Zoe's dad yep Yeah mentioned that earlier. For sure.
Speaker 2 (29:44):
Caleb, famous cinematographer, as documented in the Camera and biography
The Futurists and We had also referenced the director used
his walkie talkie to radio his ad assistant director while
she was standing directly in front of him. The then
leapt at Cameron and stabbed him in the face with
a pen before being dragged away by hospital staff. All
(30:07):
while Cameron sat bleeding and laughing.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
Paxton, freaked out by the bedlam, quietly ducked out of
the er with a teamster, I love our teamsters, don't
get us guys, and went back to the set, where
he drank an entire case of beer, which he later
told the La Times quote seemed to help.
Speaker 2 (30:30):
The mania in the hospital eventually died down and evolved
into a game of hacky sack. As you know, these
things tend to do. That's the only that's the only
possible outcome as the collective high mellowed.
Speaker 1 (30:42):
So these people ride the wave and they go back
to their they go back to their billets, they go
back to their sleeping places, and they all realize this
is how crazy production is. They all realize when they
come back to ground and that they have to go
(31:03):
to work the next day. Right, you can file a grievance,
but you have to accomplish the mission. One guy says,
all right, I'm gonna grab my guitar real quick. I'm
going to write a song about this, which I you know, Ben,
I think you would love this aspect of making a song.
It's not even a protest song. It's an acknowledgment of
(31:26):
the event.
Speaker 3 (31:28):
Story song. Very Troubadour esque.
Speaker 2 (31:33):
According to Jake Clark, one of the few folks who
actually didn't get laced because of a shellfish allergy, James
Cameron and Bill Paxton were spotted back on set at
four in the morning with beat red eyes. He says, unbelievably,
Jim had a bottle of scotch and Bill Paxton had
a bag of joints because he was a real stone
(31:54):
in the morning.
Speaker 3 (31:56):
Yeah. Well, you know, whenever smoke two joints, and especially
you know this is a special occasion. Let's just say.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
Another actor on set who didn't partake was Susie Amos,
who plays Old Rose's granddaughter.
Speaker 3 (32:11):
Thankfully Old Rose. By the way, the actor who played her.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
Either didn't eat that much or skipped it, or there's
varying accounts that she may have been dining off campus
and so she was okay, because that could have really
done a number on an older person. Amos, however, went
on to marry James Cameron, and Cameron would later joke
around with Vanity Fair that she's always been high on
my list of suspects, which leads us.
Speaker 3 (32:36):
To the who done it of it all?
Speaker 1 (32:46):
Get it high on my list of suspects? So the
good news is that no one suffers any long term
debilitating injuries. This is not going to haunt people for
the rest of their lives. The big questions are what
happens to the principal actors here the Leonardo DiCaprio is
(33:08):
the Kate Winslets. What happens to the mystery? Do we
ever locate or identify the person who poisoned the chowder? Look,
luckily we do have the police show up, They test
leftover chowder and they verify that it is laced with PCP.
(33:32):
Also shout out to Billy Zane, another actor who plays
like the bad guy boyfriend. He later will say, I
wish I was there. Those kids had all the fun.
Speaker 2 (33:45):
Yeah, if you say so. Billy didn't sound like much
fun to me, but I hear you. Billy, of course
was in the past parts of the film, as were
the leads Leo and Kate, so they were gracefully, you know,
not subjected to this horror show. The Halifax Police Department
investigated the case for two and a half years. They
(34:05):
actually issued a warrant for the Department of Health records
and got a list of every single person who had
worked on the set and they can compile the ten
page report, which was actually heavily redacted, but no suspects
were ever identified.
Speaker 1 (34:21):
Ultimately, as a result of this redactive report, however, we
want to say it, nothing shakes out. This mystery remains
unsolved today. No suspects were ever identified by HPD. The
case gets closed in February of nineteen ninety nine. There
(34:44):
are a couple of theories, and I know we're running long.
Speaker 3 (34:48):
But.
Speaker 1 (34:50):
Folks, fellow ridiculous historians, I think it's important to you
just give a couple of pieces of speculation, right.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
One that maybe seems a little obvious and that maybe
I had alluded to at the top of the show,
is this idea of a disgruntled production crew member. Cameron
himself endorsed this theory for years, saying that he has
a good idea of who did it, even though he
couldn't prove it. We had fired a crew member the
day before because they were creating trouble with the caterers.
(35:21):
Interesting he told this to Vanity Fair. So we believe
the poisoning was this idiot's plan to get back at
the caterers, whom, of course we promptly fired the next day.
So it worked, okay, Yeah, man, what a bummer though,
Like the caterers, by all accounts, the clam chowder was
deliciously They're kind of unfair to blame the caterers if
(35:43):
someone dosed the I mean, like I guess, at the
end of the day, someone's got to take the fall.
Speaker 1 (35:49):
It sticks, though, because why did this occur? Cameron himself
acknowledges the motive, or the suspected motive behind this incident,
and he says in that interview we mentioned earlier from
Vanity Fair the following quote, of course, the operating theory
was that I was such a psycho maniac that the
(36:12):
perpetrator was trying to get back at me. He actually sorry,
nailed it, Jim let me a mendez. He didn't say
that to Vanity Fair. He said this on the Q podcast,
which was hosted by Tom Power, and he.
Speaker 3 (36:27):
Said and then caveat at the f out of you.
Speaker 1 (36:29):
Yeah, he said, I reject that theory out of hand
for obvious reasons, And we don't know if he was
yelling at Tom off.
Speaker 2 (36:36):
Mike, I'm reading this in a yelling voice because I
no longer know the difference between yelling and not yelling.
After with this character, we've also got a disgruntled member
of the catering crew as a potential suspect. There's also
the possibility that one of them had it in for
Jimmy c If you guys ever seen the episode.
Speaker 3 (36:57):
Of Home Movies where they go.
Speaker 2 (36:59):
To camp Camp Campingston Falls and they might be giants
or in it, there is a drama teacher in that
episode who talks about having worked in the film worked
in the biz. I worked in craft services for jim
James Cameron.
Speaker 3 (37:16):
He likes fruits.
Speaker 2 (37:17):
I'd ever see him every day and said, I go, hey,
mister fruit, how about some more fruit.
Speaker 3 (37:21):
I'll always remember that. And that is clearly a reference.
Speaker 2 (37:23):
To this incident without actually talking about drugs on a
relatively kid friendly show.
Speaker 3 (37:29):
So, yeah, caterer, disgruntled caterer.
Speaker 1 (37:32):
M Yeah. The theory being that the theory being that
this ought tour yelled at someone in crafting. He was
given a cup of soup that he thought was too hot,
and again this is anecdotal. He threw the soup on
the floor and said, don't you ever serve me boiling
(37:53):
soup again? This is oh my god, Yeah, this is
not This is not Cannon, you know what I mean.
This may be Cameron, but it is not Cannon.
Speaker 3 (38:03):
Doesn't that remind you of that?
Speaker 2 (38:05):
I think you should leave sketch where he drinks the
gaspacho soup and says, it's burning, it's burning my mouth.
Speaker 1 (38:12):
Let me explain something to you. When you expect cold
soup and it's room temperature, it's room timp it's room tis.
He should have gone with the wall.
Speaker 2 (38:20):
That's very much James Cameron moment there.
Speaker 3 (38:24):
Don't you ever serve me blowing souper?
Speaker 2 (38:25):
Beginner's also an excellent clip of Metallica in the studio
with their producer Bob Rock and the drummer who's the
pain in the butt drummer, Lars. The producer's talking to
him about the drums and he accidentally rolls over Lars's
foot with his chair, and he goes.
Speaker 3 (38:42):
Don't you ever do that to me again? And then
the guy goes, wear's some shoes.
Speaker 2 (38:48):
It's a really funny moment. It reminds me of this
exchange as well. However, Earl Scott, the CEO of the
local catering company in question here, who provided the chowder,
he stuck up for his people, as you do.
Speaker 3 (38:59):
When you're leader.
Speaker 2 (39:00):
He spoke to Entertainment Weekly and blamed the production. A
lot of Spider Man fingerpointing going on here, Ben claiming
that it was the Hollywood crowd bringing in their psychedelic shit.
I don't think it was purposefully done to hurt somebody.
We like, it just slipped. Whoops, my PCP fell in
the soup. Better not say anything. It was done like
a party thing that got carried away.
Speaker 3 (39:21):
That is absurd.
Speaker 2 (39:23):
Again, PCP not a party thing, not for consumption of
the general partying audience.
Speaker 1 (39:30):
Yeah, it doesn't hold chowder for me and I think
for a lot of us. The third theory we need
to know is the speculation that there was a disgruntled
local who pulled a prank, who wanted to get over
on Hollywood just for the lulls. There's no evidence to
(39:53):
support this. As we're recording now on July third, beautiful
Thursday here in twenty twenty five. The case remains closed.
The perpetrator has not been found. There are a couple
of folks who have tried to get more information from Halifax.
Speaker 2 (40:14):
Right Tricia Ralph, Commissioner reviewed the redactions and concluded the
Halifax Police were not justified and withholding information related to
law enforcement tactics and inter governmental affairs, especially since the
material exceeds the fifteen year protection window. However, some of
that personal data will go on to remain redacted. Ralph
(40:36):
ordered the remaining details to be made public. The police
were expected to release details in May of twenty twenty four,
but so far have not done so curious.
Speaker 1 (40:46):
We do have one kind of cool update from our
research associate, Jordan. I just can't say enough good stuff
about this guy. He's a regular Ben Hackett, Ben's sleeping
dog Hackett, this guy. Horden notes that the production team
had an update of their own. They made T shirts.
(41:07):
I love it when people make T shirts. And the
T shirt shows an image of the Titanic sinking into
a big bowl of chowder, and the logo says bad Crew.
Going back to what I was saying earlier about good
and bad crew.
Speaker 3 (41:24):
Be divided crew bad crew. Yeah, yeah, Do you want
to give the sun Stairs situation?
Speaker 1 (41:29):
Yeah? You want to give the final word to Jimmy
c himself.
Speaker 2 (41:33):
I guess we must, since he is the boss. He
told the Canadian podcast Q with Tom Power that we
referenced before in twenty twenty three, a bit of a
mixed message here, not gonna lie. He said, you haven't
lived until you've been high on PCP, which, by the way,
I do not recommend anyone beautiful. Really, what do you
really mean, Jim, What are you really thinking? Yeah, he's
(41:55):
an odd character that Jim Cameron. Not happy with the
way Christopher Nolan portrayed the atomic bomb. He's been, you know,
very outspoken recently, saying he thought it was a cop
out the way that Nolan failed to his mind adequately
show the horror and literal fallout of you know, Oppenheimer's creation.
(42:20):
I know I haven't seen the movie actually, but apparently
there is a scene that sort of art Sallee kind
of shows some charred bodies in the audience, says Oppenheimer's
giving a big keynote address of some kind and I
guess that was a choice, but Cameron didn't like that.
But we also know that Cameron's someone who is really
spent a lot of time thinking about nuclear holocaust, so
(42:40):
I could see that.
Speaker 1 (42:41):
Are you Accusie James Cameron of being outspoken?
Speaker 3 (42:46):
He has a bit outspoken.
Speaker 2 (42:48):
I do highly recommend listening to the interviews that he
did with The Ringer. He's been on a couple of
the different shows I want to say, the big Picture,
and then of course there is this oral history that
Jordan was referencing.
Speaker 3 (42:59):
But he's we got some really interesting takes.
Speaker 2 (43:01):
On the state of AI and I think he's coming
from a pretty educated place on that.
Speaker 3 (43:05):
So do check it out.
Speaker 1 (43:07):
And thank you for checking out this episode of Ridiculous History.
Big big thanks to our super producer Audit Ventures, mister
Max Williams, Big big thanks to the legendary Ben the
Sleeping Dog Hackett, our guest superproducer, Big thanks to aj
Bahama's Jacobs Jonathan Strickland aka the Quister, who, by the way, folks,
(43:32):
I made sure I could say this on air. Just
had a birthday like a person.
Speaker 3 (43:39):
Yeah it happens. Happy New Year, as you would say Ben.
Speaker 2 (43:42):
Huge thanks to Christoph Rasiotis and Eves Jeff Coates here
in Spirit. Oh and again just another huge thanks to
Jordan run Talk who just absolutely killed it on this episode.
Outline and do check out his podcast DMI Too.
Speaker 3 (43:57):
Much Information, which is a lovely and educational listen. Agreed,
We'll see you next time, folks.
Speaker 2 (44:03):
For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
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