December 18, 2025 • 43 mins
What's the strangest Christmas tradition you practice? In today's episode, Ben, Noel and Max ring in the end of the year with an exploration of Christmas celebrations across the world -- and speculate on inventing a few of their own.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to
(00:27):
the show, fellow Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always so
much for joining us today. Let's give a quick shout
out to the Man, the Myth, the Legend. Our own
crampis super producer mister Max Williams.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Woo, you can put me in a mole and cook
me in asana.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
A bit of a benker, you always whipping kids with reds.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
He's a bit of a cranklin Chris. He's a cheerful
holiday creature. None of that holiday darkness resides in our
right and we also want to make space for, of course,
the real crampis of our show, Jonathan Strickland, aka the Quizz,
who was not able to appear for this recording as
(01:13):
he is busy trying to ruin the holiday experience of children.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
We also didn't invite him.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
We lightly implied that he could show up, and he
said he's busy because there are too many happy four
year olds on the planet. And that's classic Jonathan, That's
classic Noel Brown. They would call me Ben in part
classic Ben Prime, Ben Prime. Thank you, Nol, I appreciate that.
(01:41):
I love that one. We also decided here at the
end of the calendar year, to explore Christmas traditions that
may be unfamiliar to a lot of our fellow ridiculous
historians in the audience tonight. So we talked previously at
length about the Mule Lads. We talked about other different
(02:07):
holiday traditions that might seem odd to outsiders. I think
we're going to round robin this one, right, I propose
that we go back and forth with cool stuff. Now,
let's imagine everybody hearing this right before Christmas. For those
who celebrate Max, you got to know that Nola and
(02:30):
I are working on a thing for our sister show
called The Elf and the Shelf on the Shelf. Are
you familiar with this Elf on the Shelf?
Speaker 2 (02:39):
I've heard about it. I know people who have done
it or whatnot. I don't really even know what it is.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
Kids are into it. Yeah, it sort of represents the
surveillance state.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Yeah, it feels weird you just put an elf on
a shelf or something. It feels like remember that that
game you do as like a teenager or early twenties,
when you'd ice somebody. You put a smear and off
ice somewhere and that have that chuck.
Speaker 3 (02:59):
No, No, I don't think that's the thing anybody. I mean,
oh my god, that's amazing.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
Wait, walk us through it.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
I guess, I guess, I don't know. I had a
group of friends that, you know, you'd just hanging out
and you'd walk in a room and they would just
make me a smaroff ice put in a weird place,
and you know, sir, aff ices are disgusting, and if
you found it in that weird place, you had to
drop your knees and chug it.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
What what a life you led?
Speaker 3 (03:27):
Max?
Speaker 1 (03:28):
Are you okay?
Speaker 2 (03:29):
I had a lot after doing that number of times? Probably? No.
I did not like it. I did not like it
at all. I really liked freth.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
I would have also accepted a zema on the shelf.
Remember zema, wasn't.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
That mean at that point if you're lowering the bar,
you know, if we're playing, if we're playing limbo at
at that level, then why not a zema.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
So we're kind of gonna do a bit of a
Christmas listical that's somewhat connected to bizarros sometimes terrifying holiday traditions,
a little bit of a deeper cut version. We're gonna
do some kind of follow ups for some things that
we've talked about in the past as well. But geez, Ben,
how do we start off. We've got some good ones
between the three of us.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Yeah, we do. And again, Nol, you and I cannot
thank super producer Max enough for joining us on this
strange endeavor. The first thing that we wanted to set
out right, we've established our thesis. Your local Christmas celebrations
may not be the same as celebrations in other parts
(04:42):
of the world. Like here's our entry point. So in Thanksgiving,
for instance, so a lot of people in the United
States will will cook a turkey, right, whereas people in
the United Kingdom may cook a goose. All. One thing
that has been very popular for quite some time in
(05:04):
Scandinavia is the idea of a goat, the yule goat.
You guys know about this.
Speaker 3 (05:12):
I don't know about the mule goat, Ben, I don't
know that I've ever really thought of a goat. Could
being connected with the holidays, perhaps a lamb, but not a.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
Goat, you know, I like your point about lamb.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
Ghasts usually a bit of an infernal stand in thinking
of the black Philip of it all, or like the
you know, the the cloven hoofs of Satan.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
So the origins of the mule goat are unclear. However,
it is a it is now in that part of
the world, a Christmas tradition. It does come from paganism.
Please do check out our previous episodes on our sister
show about the surprisingly non Christian origins of Christmas, which
(05:59):
is quite a tongue twister. H here's the ideal. It's
Christmas time here in Scandinavia. We're in Scandinavia and we
are celebrating the end of the year in some way.
So we build a goat effigy out of straw and
then we burn it. This is probably connected to the
(06:24):
worship of a Norse god who's been really blowing up
in Marvel movies and comic books. His name is Thor.
Speaker 3 (06:31):
Heard of him, big muscley guy with a tiny hammer
that apparently is quite heavy.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
Yes, only the worthy you can lift it are stored
in the stone rolls very much. So, yeah, that's a
nice connection. So this our buddy Thor, according to the lore,
rode the sky in a chariot drawn by two wait
for it, goats.
Speaker 3 (06:55):
Seems like he could have done better, but I assume
they were magical goats. Good is concerned.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
Yeah, ghats were way more of a flex back at
this time when they were writing these myths. And it
goes back to pre Christian beliefs, way older than Christianity.
The last sheaf of grain that you bundled up in
your harvest was thought to be the magical collection of grain.
(07:24):
It was the spirit of harvest. And they will call
it you'll bulk it, or the Yule goat. And so
as we know, there's the thing called Yule booking. J
U L E v U kki n G.
Speaker 3 (07:42):
Got it. This is where you do the thing.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
Okay, that's where you do it. So you're a person.
We're celebrating this. We're in Scandinavia. We're people who dawn
mask and costumes. We call ourselves you bookers, and we
go door to door and our neighbors say, let me
(08:04):
figure out who's under that mask, and we're singing Christmas carols.
We're not breaking into the place, which will come up
later in this show. And then after we sing for them,
the folks will reward us with candy if they can't
identify us.
Speaker 3 (08:22):
You know, there's a lot of these somewhat esoteric Christmas
myths that always involve either being rewarded with candy or
punished with pain or minor torture. Okay, yeah, that you
know what it is ant of your nice thing that
also goes back to the whole like trick or treat
thing and a fun one that Max is going to
(08:44):
talk to us about involving caroling. That it makes it
resemble trick or treating much more than that one might
associate breaking in.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
So the the Yule goat to sew this up. It's
a ritualistic folklore. It's kind of cool if you if
you go to Finland, you will be able to talk
to people about word. I can't pronounce juel pookie j
o u l u p u kk i. It means
(09:15):
Christmas goat uh. And I like the idea, you know,
it's it's what Caroly descends from. In this case, in Finland,
you dawn a goat costume and you do a little
like show, like a busking show, and then in return
for your performance you get leftover Christmas food. Historically, this
(09:39):
is very important for that part of the world where
you can't grow you know, radishes at certain times of
the year. Got it.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
So there's no there's no actual goat. It's just a
little bit of a goat effigy made it.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
We do burn the goat. We do build and burn
a goat like.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
Very very baking okay of burning straw effigy. And then
I was actually going to bring this as one of
my topics, but I think I'm just gonna do it
by way of a quick aside. There's a film that
came out, I think in twenty twenty three called The
Lord of Misrule that is very clearly a bit of
a wicker Man ripoff. And the Lord of Misrule is
(10:20):
a holiday tradition I believe in medieval times where like
essentially a pleb was assigned to be like appointed in
Scotland as the you know, essentially presiding over the feast
of food. It's kind of like a king for a
day type situation. A peasant or someone lower in the
(10:45):
church religious order, you know, the hierarchy, and appointed to
be in charge and organize all of the Christmas events,
which also included like being in charge of decorations, everything down.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
Temporary temporary authority figure. Doesn't he have another name? I
think the Abbot of unreason, the Lord of misrule, the
abbot of I'm reason, ladies and gentleman Jonath, it's Strickland. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:19):
And also, if I'm not mistaken, the tradition of the
Lord of Misrule, there's another thing that's sort of a
holdover from that, this idea of like in a kingcake
for example during Marty Gaul or if you get the baby,
then that means you're king for a day. Or there's
other Christmas. It's not Christmas, but there are other holiday
festive baking traditions where if you get a sixpence in
(11:41):
your figgy pudding I believe in the United Kingdom, then
that also means something that you're some sort of special
boy for a day. And that came from the tradition
of I believe, putting a sixpence or some other small
trinket into a dish that was then consumed in. Whoever
got the little thing was awarded to be the Lord misrule.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
Ah. Yes, with consequences in the coming year. Right, dating
back to Saturnalia, that's exactly right, Ben, I meant to
bring that up.
Speaker 3 (12:10):
It is something that carried on into the Tutor era
and Elizabethan era. And you know more, I believe in
the medieval eras as well, but it is another one
of those pagan origin stories.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
Yeah, we're going to be super conservative on this episode, folks.
All the stuff you love about Christmas comes from somewhere else,
to be quite honest, And I gotta ask you guys,
have any of us ever gone caroling.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
I've been a was I've been a wassailin. I've been
a was sailed. I've been a wassailent.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
It's true, Nolan Ben, Yes, Max knew.
Speaker 3 (12:49):
I think there was one time I went with some
neighborhood folk when my mother was living in her neighborhood,
and I played guitar. I accompanied the the revelers on guitar.
So most of those songs are really easy to play. Yeah, yeah,
you got the cords down. That's cool man, Max. You're
going to have a good time when you do it,
(13:09):
so long as you do not practice anything other than
the current Caroline or was sailing.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
Yeah, you know, you can't hold me down. But before
I dive into caroling, I do want to just quote
a little something off of Wikipedia, which is sure I
think is a drinking game and internet meme that gained
prominence in twenty ten in which all feels a bottle
of Samaranov eyes, which in which another person will find it.
I've had this stuff for about fifty You're like.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
A moray eel man you bite in.
Speaker 3 (13:41):
Yeah, and also like you know, establishing mores that we
were not aware of. Max, I was not questioning whether
it was a real thing or not. It's just something
that has absolutely not crossed my radar in all of
my forty something years of existence. So, yeah, mean behaviors,
that's a relatively new thing.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
And Max, over the centuries that I have been required
to be here, I have been aware of pranks like that.
They pop up every so often, and if anything, Man,
I'm just glad that you're safe.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
Me too. But you know, it was also another horrifying beverage, watle.
Speaker 3 (14:22):
It's like a fortified wine or is it sort of
like a mead situation. It seems like you'd be thick,
So let's get to that.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
So I was doing a little research on side thanks
to the website Yesterday is America, which I'm referencing here
with the article the Little Known History of the Caroling Tradition. So,
according to the article, caroling or wastle, as it's already
been referenced, actually dates back to the thirteenth century, so
the twelve hundred's. But it wasn't always a Christmas tradition,
(14:57):
and it wasn't even always about singing. It was actually
more about going around to people's houses and wishing them
good cheer and warmth like during the holidays, at least.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
According to them, but according to like the wholesome story.
And I'm going to interject here because we want to
get in front of our ridiculous historians who might be
angry about this. It is kind of racketeering.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
It is get that. We'll get to that, but do.
Speaker 3 (15:26):
You mean it's it's like a bit of like a
being a vacuum cleaner salesman.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
Little holiday cheer you got over here? Okay, okay, it
sounds like you guys got some food, would do a
little sort.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
But so I bring this up because this is actually
where the beverage wastle comes from, because part of the
tradition that say bring this warm beverage to people to
help keep them warm. I found what it was. It
didn't sound very appetizing.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
It's with it.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
And figs, and I it's a medieval spice drink, but
it wasn't until so it's a liquid fruitcake kind of yeah,
but it wasn't until this gentleman by the name of
Saint Francis of ass which he would kind of, you know,
merge them together. But that's not what we're really talking
(16:19):
about today. We're going to talk about this tradition and
special thanks here too, Ammy Glover over at BuzzFeed in
the article that we a lot of us were referencing
from today or about how caroling used to be kind
of more of a shakedown job than anything where basically
kids would go where you know, young men would go
(16:40):
knock on doors of well more well to do people
and sing and then be like, now you owe us stuff,
you know us food or potatoes.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
It's the old version of running up to someone at
a stoplight and non consensually cleaning their windshield.
Speaker 3 (16:57):
It's also certainly got a lot in common with more
anarchistic if that's a word version of trick or treating.
You have delivered the delightful presence of your you know,
Halloween costume, and for that you are owed. Because the
whole idea is if you don't have a costume, you
don't get any candy. But if you have a costume
and you go for the candy, you don't get the candy,
you might be doing a trick.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
Yeah, give treats or get tricks. It's the original version
of f a.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
F oh yeah, and to like, you know, give reference
to it. So one of the lines that they had
they would saying would be We've come here to claim
our right and if you don't open up your door
will lie flat on the floor, okay, which is a
weird which is a weird threat. I'm gonna lie on
your ground.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:40):
Yeah, it seems like it's it's got some more sinister
implications though, if I'm not mistaken, wasn't there pelting with
rocks involved?
Speaker 1 (17:46):
Yeah? I agree with Noel. How far does this go?
Like the obviously the Halloween modern celebration of trick or
treat is a sanitized descendant of these sorts of practices.
So would the carollers actually threw stones? Would they actually
(18:07):
engage in racketeering?
Speaker 2 (18:09):
There are reports of this, so is reference that there
was a case in sixteen seventy nine in Salem where
kids threw stones, bones and other things.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
They stones, bones, and other things. That's the name of
our upcoming album, right, And.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
I'm just wondering, like what type of bones, Like were
the these like animal bones or were these bones of
previous landlords who had not given them potatoes. I'm just
assuming that they were going for potatoes. And they would
do this for about an hour and a half with
and I quote little intermission, which is pretty impressive. That
means you have to have a lot of stones and
(18:47):
a decent bit of bones, and they would destroy stuff
like rip apart fences, break stone walls at least in
this case, and just a lot of things. And considering
this is Salem, I'm a doing. They were all tried
for witches afterwards and burnt.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
Yeah, yep, And that's something we all agree is awesome.
Ten to ten no notes should have happened, he says, sarcastically.
This is this is nuts, folks. If you are fortunate
enough to be in an area of the world where
people are coming up to your domicile and they're singing
(19:27):
nice songs, so silent Night, Holy Night, whatever, or Christmas
Tree or Noel, what are some of the songs you
and your mom played?
Speaker 3 (19:36):
Oh the classics, you know, like, yeah, I mean like
a good King Winschlass, which has got a bit of
a dork dork dark origin itself. Good King winch just
less was apparently like I think he was like drawn
and quartered or like a remembered or something. But we're
gonna ship that one for well. But no, no, I didn't.
(19:57):
But you know all the GCD ones and by the
I mean the chorus, the easy ones to play three chords, Yeah,
for sure. You know it's funny, man. I don't know
if you guys saw this. I sent this around to
a few friends the other day. The comedian in Brent Weinbach.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
I love Brent.
Speaker 3 (20:12):
I like Brent. Brian Bucklett too, and he did a
bit where he says, if you want to make a
new Honkkah song, just take any Christmas song and play
it in a minor key.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
Yeah. Yeah, Brin's a genius. By the way, He's super
good at piano. He's an accomplished musician, sketchwriter, stand up comedian.
One of my favorite bits from our buddy Brent is
when he talks about his time being a substitute teacher
and how he thought he had it bad and he
(20:43):
realized that children had it bad as well. But they
made fun of him for the strangest things. They ran
up to him and they would find something about his
appearance that they would ridicule, no matter what it was.
So they would run up to Port Brent and I
do believe it, it's a true story, and they would say,
oh hell no, oh hell da, mister Weinbach, look at
(21:05):
his tight pants. They would wear baggy pants and they
would run up to him and they'd say, oh, hell nah,
hell da, look at his baggy pants. Look at mister
W's baggy pants. So you can't win. It's a Kobeashi maru.
And one of the things we're establishing here is that
your celebration of Christmas or the end of the year,
(21:27):
your mileage is going to vary based on where you're
located and what your family likes to do. It might
surprise a lot of us, as we're talking about off air,
to learn that spider themed things can play a role
in the most famous birthday celebration ever. For sure.
Speaker 3 (21:49):
Yeah, I love a good I don't know we did
the Halloween crossover, I guess with a little bit more
chaotic caroling, a little more quid pro quo caroling. You know,
comparing it to trick or treating, and this kind of
this feels similar in that there's you know, spiders involved.
So this idea of a spider, a Christmas spider or
(22:11):
a mule tiede spider being used as a decoration on
Christmas trees, which is I think a little bit more
popular in Ukraine and in parts of Germany and Eastern Europe.
But there are several fables surrounding the idea of a
Christmas spider, and there's some that conjecture that it is
directly these these tales are directly what led to the
(22:33):
popularity of Tinsel. So in one version of the story,
most often attributed to Ukraine and Germany, a widowed mother
has a Christmas tree, but it does not have enough
money to properly decorate it. So, in true Cinderella style,
the woodland creatures come to her aid, specifically maybe a
(22:55):
little bit more of a Charlotte's Web style friendly spiders
who come and spend their elaborate ways all over this
evergreen tree. But there's a deis ex machina element to
it as well, because when the mother and her family
wake up, rather than seeing you know, spiders, webs surrounding
their Chris, their bear barren Christmas tree. They see when
(23:15):
the sunlight hits the tree that it magically the sunlight,
by some accounts, turns them into silver and gold threads, which,
again you can put two and two together, is kind
of what you see in tinsil, at least the shiny,
various colors. They can be all kinds of colors. But
that also was from that moment on when the family's
(23:38):
fortune started to turn around. And I'm sure that we've
all heard and I know a lot of people are
really scared of spiders, but they do often represent good luck,
so you're not supposed to kill spiders because it's bad luck.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
But there are other.
Speaker 3 (23:51):
Versions of the story that attribute the Christmas miracle to
Santa or even Jesus Christ himself, who reached down from
monarly from always yeah, transformed those spiders webs into the
gold and silver tensil like material. I guess they would
have been actual precious metal threads that the Good Mother
(24:12):
saw before her. There are some other versions involving a
tree that grows from a pine cone out of doors,
and this is kind of just a slightly different take
on the one I already told, but this one just
involves a tree growing outside, which I guess gives a
little more access to the spiders who then cover the
tree and cobwebs that are then trans What transmogrified, Ben,
(24:35):
is that when things that alchemy has used to turn,
you know, non precious things into precious metals.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
Transmography is transformation with a tie on, you know, transubstantiation.
The Catholic Church got in front of that one, and
so they kind of own that word. But I think
we see what you're saying here, Nol, which is the
idea that people are attempting to explain a thing. And
(25:03):
at some point over the Great Game of Telephone, the
spider webs a longer thing became commodified and celebrated as tensil. Right.
Speaker 3 (25:17):
Yeah, that's exactly right, Ben, And it is a bit
of a trope, as you see, because there are versions
of it that you will see in other parts of
the world Scandinavia, Denmark, Sweden, Norway and Finland. And by
the way, speaking of Wassail, when I was just in Copenhagen,
very very cold, walking around on these Christmas markets, something
called glue wine is very very popular and it is
(25:41):
mulled wine. But that is basically what wassail is. It
is a spiced, fortified kind of wine that is served
hot and it's glue wine literally translates to glow wine
because it warms you up both physically and spiritually.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
Yeah, are you ever drinking wine and you think this
stuff is too cold? Room temperature? Also, it doesn't taste
of potpourri.
Speaker 3 (26:03):
What if it was more like soup?
Speaker 2 (26:05):
Jump in here, you guys. The bar worked out for
a number of years.
Speaker 1 (26:08):
We did a republic.
Speaker 2 (26:09):
Yeah, we did a mould wine every holiday season and
at first people look weird, and then it was the
most popular beverage we had ever.
Speaker 3 (26:17):
People love it.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
People love a people love a tradition, you know what
I mean.
Speaker 3 (26:22):
And really quickly, just one more version of the story
that is a little different. This is you know, this
is again that great historical game of telephone that you
see often with reporting of actual history, but especially with
myths and folklore. In this one, you've got one spider
who's a mother spider again with the Charlotte Webbs vibes,
and then a peasant woman and they essentially give gifts
(26:45):
to one another. With the peasant woman allowing the spider
and her family to live in the branches of their
Christmas tree, and then the mother spider rewarding or paying
it forward in turn by banding together with presumably her
little ones and decorating the tree with gorgeous shimmering webs.
So there's no transmogrification in this version of the story.
Speaker 1 (27:06):
Yeah, it's a pleasant peasant meeting a super wonderful spider
and they're exchanging charity, which is ultimately the parable of
the holidays. But they don't get into a sauda, do they.
Speaker 3 (27:23):
No, no, they don't, but we do have what is it,
eggnog sauna?
Speaker 1 (27:28):
Is that a thing?
Speaker 3 (27:29):
Did I see that come through the chat?
Speaker 1 (27:32):
It's We've talked about egnog at length.
Speaker 3 (27:36):
That's two very different things.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
Oh well, you know what I mean. Fortune favors the bold, right,
That's how you impress people in Finland. Apparently you rock
up to the soda and you say, hey, guys, I
was going to heat up this agnog for you, but
I figured we just sit here and then run outside
and beat the Christ out of each other with fur branches.
(28:04):
We did learn, courtesy of our group chat, that there
is a sorta based tradition in Christmas. So let's go
to none other than super producer mister Max Williams. Max,
what's going on with the sauna thing?
Speaker 3 (28:20):
I think I may have transmographied some topics together in
my mind in the form of eggnog sauna, because there
is a tradition in Finland and sauna culture where they
have sauna sausages and they cook them like whilst in
the saunas.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
And there actually is in Korean sauna's sauna eggs, but
supposedly they don't cook them in the sauna.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
And film we don't cook him in the sauna.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
And Finland they do very much enjoy cooking things. But
just in general, so snic culture is We've talked about this.
We talked about this in our Sausage War episode from
an other years back. It's this kind of part of
Finland culture in general, but especially around Christmas Eve, the
(29:01):
colder months of the year, you are supposed to really
enjoy a lot of time in the saunas. And I
kind of want to talk about Man, you dropped the
finish word earlier, so I'm gonna try to drop one
as well, which is okay, it is kuash makra.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
You nailed it, Max, Why don't you see you just
invoke an eldridge horror from the depths. Yeah, it's like
saying Cardi B's real name. It sounds like a spell, Max,
Can you spell that for us? Speaking of spells?
Speaker 2 (29:31):
Absolutely, it is k I u A s m A
kka r a ah.
Speaker 1 (29:39):
Yes, of course.
Speaker 3 (29:41):
I should have known.
Speaker 2 (29:43):
That is Actually what it means is stove sausage. But
it is sausages that people traditionally cook in the sauna,
so it takes a little bit longer. But what you
generally do is you put it in with some onions,
pour some beer in there, and just uh, let it cook.
Speaker 3 (30:03):
So presumably you're talking about the coals that you would
pour water over to generate the steam. You're cooking them
on that same little little little do dad.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
Yeah. Also, this is way more hygienic, doesn't way less
unusual that it sounds because uh. To Max's earlier point, Nol,
the idea of the sauda is uh is normalized in
Finnish culture, such that if you move into an apartment
(30:34):
building that doesn't have a sauna, then people are going
to think you've moved into the you know, the jets,
the bandos. Uh, it's it's a it's a cool tradition.
Also we after it's a hot tradition. Also we have
to remember that it's pretty cold up there this time
(30:54):
of year.
Speaker 2 (30:55):
Also, according to the Google AI in Finland, Boo in Finland,
which has five and a half million people, there is
estimated to be three million saunas.
Speaker 1 (31:07):
Yeah. Yeah, sometimes you got to get hot.
Speaker 3 (31:10):
And in Europe in general, I mean you're going to
see a lot more of like a public pool culture too,
Like in the even urban areas, like you will see
these very elaborate public bathhouses. And that's true in other
parts of the world as well, obviously, but it's very
much a part of just day to day culture, whether
kids are it's sort of like a YMC eight thing,
but there's just so many more of them, and they're
so clean, and there are very much saunas and steam
(31:34):
rooms incorporated into these.
Speaker 1 (31:35):
It immaculately maintained to your point there, No, we also
know that people pretty much are looking for excuses to
ritualize community, hanging out with friends and family, celebrating the
beginning of one year the ending of the other. This
(31:56):
brings us to a lot of I don't know if
we're going to get to all of this, guys, but
we've got to say it. You know, I used to
live in Central America and one thing they do over
there in Guatemala and specific is a thing called La
Cama del Diablo.
Speaker 3 (32:17):
It's something of the devil.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
Yeah, yeah, you nailed it, You nailed it. It's on
December seventh. The whole town gets together and they essentially
take out all the trash and all the stuff they
want to get rid of, and they make it into
an effigy of the actual devil, right like what they
(32:41):
see as Satan, and then they burn it to represent
the triumph of good over evil. This dates way back
to the sixteenth century, so the fifteen hundreds when the
Conquistadors came over, they established their capital and Antigua, and
(33:01):
they immediately began building, you know, convents, monasteries, churches, and
telling the native people, Hey, this is why we're doing
all this mean stuff to you. We're giving everybody a
break on December seventh, because tomorrow, December eighth, is the
(33:22):
feast of the Immaculate Conception. Shout out to Mary. And
as a result, it became a tradition to celebrate that
big feast day on December eighth by lighting firecrackers and
bonfires and lanterns and then picking up all the stuff
(33:45):
you had at home and building a little devil figure
and then burning it. We're all about burning the effigies
in today's episode. I love it, Ben, I'm here for it. Hey.
It's weird that it's a commonality between so many any
different cultures, is it not. I mean the sorta guys,
you know, shout out to our Finnish ridiculous historians. If
(34:08):
you could get away with burning it historically, you would
have done the same thing, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (34:15):
That's just I feel that that's entirely likely.
Speaker 1 (34:17):
Yeah, or you could uh maybe poop, you could, you
could you could maybe bring poop into the conversation.
Speaker 3 (34:24):
Well that's what you've just done that And I I'm
glad because if I didn't have anything to follow that
up with, I would feel quite foolish. But in fact,
that was a glorious setup for a bit of a
follow up on a character out of the Catalonia region
of Spain that we've definitely talked about in the past,
the the pooper, the little pooping fellow. What's his name, ben,
(34:45):
I kind thet do that's the guy cogt dio. The
pooper or the ster in fact, is another term that's
used a lot. I'm a little foggy on the separation
of these two versions, because there's definitely a the version
of Cagatillo, who is a little fellow who sits with
his little butt in his pants down, his little butt
(35:06):
hanging over at the edge of something like in the
Nativity scene, and he's dropping a poo. And it came
from the Catalonian tradition of trying to fertilize the Nativity
to make it, you know, more conducive to growth and nurturing.
And I don't know it's it's it's a wild one.
Speaker 1 (35:24):
But we have were seen the soil, right.
Speaker 3 (35:26):
I think there were plenty of farm animals around to
do that, though, so I'm not sure why they needed
a little, a little puckish boy.
Speaker 1 (35:34):
You can't burn the goats forever, You'll run out of goats.
Speaker 3 (35:37):
That's true. I don't know that we need to that
there is any version of the atrition that burns Cagatillo.
But we had talked about this guy in this notion
that he was often hidden word for children to find,
almost like an elf on the shelf. And in fact,
there's a lot of elf on the shelf commonality with
Cogatillo because there is a there's no surveillance state.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
Aspect, a lot of commonality.
Speaker 3 (36:02):
Okay, okay, I'll take that one next. I'll take that one.
Speaker 1 (36:06):
The facts.
Speaker 3 (36:08):
That seeking in the fun and peaceful in knowledge.
Speaker 1 (36:14):
It's just for you right now.
Speaker 2 (36:17):
The fact.
Speaker 1 (36:20):
So we're back. Uh No, I'm really interested in this
elf on the shelf comparison because I think you're I
think you're onto something and we have talked about we
have talked about you, which again is just uh the
word just means uncle. But I think we're we're talking
(36:41):
about a log as a anthropomorphized thing, right.
Speaker 3 (36:47):
I do want to walk back really quickly lest any
Spanish speaking folks on the audience are screaming at their
podcast device. There is El kaganair, which is why I
was describing that is a little dude that can be
you know, created in uh ornament form. He's wearing a
little hat and with some linen shirt and he's got
his pants down Popula squad taking a poop, you know, whatever.
(37:07):
You can sit him on a ledge in the Nativity scene.
This is one version of the pooping tradition there in Catalonia, which,
of course the most well known part of that region
would be Barcelona, which is the capital of the Autonomous
Region of Catalonia, which is also known for its excellent
seafood and cuisine. The one we're talking about now that
(37:29):
I wanted to follow up with is Cagatillo, which is
this Christmas log that is an anthropomorphized cartoon ish Christmas
log that itself also poops.
Speaker 1 (37:41):
Yes, yeah, the i it is, but he also poops.
You also have to abuse this poor guy TiO deta
doll to get your wishes or whatever. There's there's a
whole song about it which we talked about. Cagatillo avees
little gandas it's uh, it translates to max is gonna
(38:05):
be a lot of beeps, but the salt translates. One
of the most popular variants to shit teo, hazel nuts
and nugats. Do not herrings, for they are too salty.
Nuggats for they taste better. Sh Teo almonds and nugats.
And if you don't want to ship, I will hit
(38:26):
you with a stick sh to you.
Speaker 3 (38:28):
It's exactly right, Ben. That's one of the more popular
and delightful versions of the song that the kids sing
while walloping it with sticks. But they also are meant
to take care of it, almost like a tamagachi or
like one of those like bags of flour that you
were supposed to carry around in you know, middle school
as a you know, proof that you could, you know,
care for a baby.
Speaker 1 (38:47):
Well, think I'm not letting that go. You had to
carry around a bag of.
Speaker 3 (38:50):
Five I did it, but it was a thing that
I've known to have happened in in in school. And
there's actually it's I think there's an episode of some
popular you know what it was. I think it was
a Strangers with Candy. There's a there's a version of
that sort of high like middle school trope of taking
care of like a bag of flower, and then of
course someone loses the bag of flower or drops the
bag of flower. YadA, YadA, YadA. But the point is
(39:13):
if you do take good care of this holiday log,
you are rewarded, and you mentioned things like nugats, Ben. Yeah,
it goes on to say do not poop herring because
they're too salty, only nugets because they taste better almonds
and nugats. And if you don't want to poop, I
will hit you with a stick poop too. So if
(39:34):
you do a good job and you keep him warm,
it's weird because you're spposed to keep him warm with
a blanket, but you're all supposed to smack him around
so that he keeps you warm. Full of contradictions.
Speaker 1 (39:42):
This it's we're kind of raising children to take care
of a thing and then betray it, which is wild.
But if you want to if you want to hear
the lyrics in full or check out the song, all
you have to do is for Cogateillo on YouTube or
(40:03):
your listening platform of choice. We've got gosh, we've got
so much more that we might have to save for
next year. You guys, I know we didn't get to
let's see some of our favorites. We didn't get to
the Night of the Radishes. That might be twenty twenty
six delos Rabatos, bro.
Speaker 3 (40:25):
What if we combined that with the Night of the
Cannibalistic Scarecrow, Right, that's like some goosebump stuff right there.
There was like almost Dracula esque tale from Germany of
this black Night, and Germany did horrible things names Hans Trump,
who was then turned into a a scarecrow who would
haunt the knights, devouring hapless children and used as sort
(40:48):
of a teachable monster, right like Belsnickel or the Crampus.
Speaker 1 (40:54):
And for everybody here who knows a little bit of Spanish,
the Night of the Radishes that the translation in English
is it's a day in Mexico that is overwhelmingly dedicated
to carving radishes into cool into cool holiday themed scenes.
Speaker 3 (41:17):
That pretty done because the earliest jack O lanterns, I
believe we're radishes or turnips, and on our other show stuff,
they don't want you to know. We're always talking about
digging up the rude begas and we do that year round.
So this is what a good one to end on.
Speaker 1 (41:30):
Ben.
Speaker 3 (41:30):
Honestly, I think this has been a fun listical episode,
a Christmas listical, a chrystical listical.
Speaker 1 (41:37):
It's a Christmas gift from us to you. Even though
not all of us celebrate Christmas, we know Christmas is
whether or not you celebrate the famous birthday. It's a
good time to get together with your friends, your left ones,
it's the end of the year, old Lady sign and
all of that. We can't thank you enough for joining
(42:01):
us here today, folks, and we cannot wait for you
to join us for our future episode, Future Future twenty
twenty six. If we're still able to do this, we're
gonna get to the Night of.
Speaker 3 (42:14):
The Radishes, Night of the Radishes, and maybe the Night
of the Scarecrow, because that actually that Hans Won Traps
or Hans Trap story goes pretty deep into some pretty
dark territories. So maybe a fun slash dark one to
do as well, even in the new year. What do
we care we're not seasonally bouncing to any topic.
Speaker 1 (42:31):
Well, we're just not punctual.
Speaker 3 (42:33):
Good.
Speaker 1 (42:36):
Yeah, eighteen ninety seven. By the way, that's how far
the Night of the Radishes dates back. Because for anybody
who is listening now, you know the Radishes were not
from North and South America. They are part of the
Great Transfer, and we transfer now the torch to you.
Big big thanks to our super producer mister Max Williams,
(42:59):
big big thing thanks to our composer Alex Williams. A
big thanks to Oh I don't want to do it yet, No,
let's say Christopher Hasioti Sieves, Jeff Goat Here in spirit,
Here in Christmas Spirit, Here in Christmas Spirit. Who else? Oh,
big Spinach, Mohammas Copenhagen, that's you.
Speaker 3 (43:19):
Me, Jonathan Strickland, the Quizzers. Yeah, well, you know, it's Christmas.
Speaker 1 (43:25):
We'll let a good all right, we'll let it good.
Speaker 3 (43:28):
We are gonna take some time off with our families
and loved ones and friends for the holidays, So you're
gonna hear a few more classics, but we will see
you refreshed and rejuvenated in the new year. We'll see
you next time, folks. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit
(43:50):
the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to
your favorite shows.
Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to
(00:27):
the show, fellow Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always so
much for joining us today. Let's give a quick shout
out to the Man, the Myth, the Legend. Our own
crampis super producer mister Max Williams.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Woo, you can put me in a mole and cook
me in asana.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
A bit of a benker, you always whipping kids with reds.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
He's a bit of a cranklin Chris. He's a cheerful
holiday creature. None of that holiday darkness resides in our
right and we also want to make space for, of course,
the real crampis of our show, Jonathan Strickland, aka the Quizz,
who was not able to appear for this recording as
(01:13):
he is busy trying to ruin the holiday experience of children.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
We also didn't invite him.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
We lightly implied that he could show up, and he
said he's busy because there are too many happy four
year olds on the planet. And that's classic Jonathan, That's
classic Noel Brown. They would call me Ben in part
classic Ben Prime, Ben Prime. Thank you, Nol, I appreciate that.
(01:41):
I love that one. We also decided here at the
end of the calendar year, to explore Christmas traditions that
may be unfamiliar to a lot of our fellow ridiculous
historians in the audience tonight. So we talked previously at
length about the Mule Lads. We talked about other different
(02:07):
holiday traditions that might seem odd to outsiders. I think
we're going to round robin this one, right, I propose
that we go back and forth with cool stuff. Now,
let's imagine everybody hearing this right before Christmas. For those
who celebrate Max, you got to know that Nola and
(02:30):
I are working on a thing for our sister show
called The Elf and the Shelf on the Shelf. Are
you familiar with this Elf on the Shelf?
Speaker 2 (02:39):
I've heard about it. I know people who have done
it or whatnot. I don't really even know what it is.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
Kids are into it. Yeah, it sort of represents the
surveillance state.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Yeah, it feels weird you just put an elf on
a shelf or something. It feels like remember that that
game you do as like a teenager or early twenties,
when you'd ice somebody. You put a smear and off
ice somewhere and that have that chuck.
Speaker 3 (02:59):
No, No, I don't think that's the thing anybody. I mean,
oh my god, that's amazing.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
Wait, walk us through it.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
I guess, I guess, I don't know. I had a
group of friends that, you know, you'd just hanging out
and you'd walk in a room and they would just
make me a smaroff ice put in a weird place,
and you know, sir, aff ices are disgusting, and if
you found it in that weird place, you had to
drop your knees and chug it.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
What what a life you led?
Speaker 3 (03:27):
Max?
Speaker 1 (03:28):
Are you okay?
Speaker 2 (03:29):
I had a lot after doing that number of times? Probably? No.
I did not like it. I did not like it
at all. I really liked freth.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
I would have also accepted a zema on the shelf.
Remember zema, wasn't.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
That mean at that point if you're lowering the bar,
you know, if we're playing, if we're playing limbo at
at that level, then why not a zema.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
So we're kind of gonna do a bit of a
Christmas listical that's somewhat connected to bizarros sometimes terrifying holiday traditions,
a little bit of a deeper cut version. We're gonna
do some kind of follow ups for some things that
we've talked about in the past as well. But geez, Ben,
how do we start off. We've got some good ones
between the three of us.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Yeah, we do. And again, Nol, you and I cannot
thank super producer Max enough for joining us on this
strange endeavor. The first thing that we wanted to set
out right, we've established our thesis. Your local Christmas celebrations
may not be the same as celebrations in other parts
(04:42):
of the world. Like here's our entry point. So in Thanksgiving,
for instance, so a lot of people in the United
States will will cook a turkey, right, whereas people in
the United Kingdom may cook a goose. All. One thing
that has been very popular for quite some time in
(05:04):
Scandinavia is the idea of a goat, the yule goat.
You guys know about this.
Speaker 3 (05:12):
I don't know about the mule goat, Ben, I don't
know that I've ever really thought of a goat. Could
being connected with the holidays, perhaps a lamb, but not a.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
Goat, you know, I like your point about lamb.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
Ghasts usually a bit of an infernal stand in thinking
of the black Philip of it all, or like the
you know, the the cloven hoofs of Satan.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
So the origins of the mule goat are unclear. However,
it is a it is now in that part of
the world, a Christmas tradition. It does come from paganism.
Please do check out our previous episodes on our sister
show about the surprisingly non Christian origins of Christmas, which
(05:59):
is quite a tongue twister. H here's the ideal. It's
Christmas time here in Scandinavia. We're in Scandinavia and we
are celebrating the end of the year in some way.
So we build a goat effigy out of straw and
then we burn it. This is probably connected to the
(06:24):
worship of a Norse god who's been really blowing up
in Marvel movies and comic books. His name is Thor.
Speaker 3 (06:31):
Heard of him, big muscley guy with a tiny hammer
that apparently is quite heavy.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
Yes, only the worthy you can lift it are stored
in the stone rolls very much. So, yeah, that's a
nice connection. So this our buddy Thor, according to the lore,
rode the sky in a chariot drawn by two wait
for it, goats.
Speaker 3 (06:55):
Seems like he could have done better, but I assume
they were magical goats. Good is concerned.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
Yeah, ghats were way more of a flex back at
this time when they were writing these myths. And it
goes back to pre Christian beliefs, way older than Christianity.
The last sheaf of grain that you bundled up in
your harvest was thought to be the magical collection of grain.
(07:24):
It was the spirit of harvest. And they will call
it you'll bulk it, or the Yule goat. And so
as we know, there's the thing called Yule booking. J
U L E v U kki n G.
Speaker 3 (07:42):
Got it. This is where you do the thing.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
Okay, that's where you do it. So you're a person.
We're celebrating this. We're in Scandinavia. We're people who dawn
mask and costumes. We call ourselves you bookers, and we
go door to door and our neighbors say, let me
(08:04):
figure out who's under that mask, and we're singing Christmas carols.
We're not breaking into the place, which will come up
later in this show. And then after we sing for them,
the folks will reward us with candy if they can't
identify us.
Speaker 3 (08:22):
You know, there's a lot of these somewhat esoteric Christmas
myths that always involve either being rewarded with candy or
punished with pain or minor torture. Okay, yeah, that you
know what it is ant of your nice thing that
also goes back to the whole like trick or treat
thing and a fun one that Max is going to
(08:44):
talk to us about involving caroling. That it makes it
resemble trick or treating much more than that one might
associate breaking in.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
So the the Yule goat to sew this up. It's
a ritualistic folklore. It's kind of cool if you if
you go to Finland, you will be able to talk
to people about word. I can't pronounce juel pookie j
o u l u p u kk i. It means
(09:15):
Christmas goat uh. And I like the idea, you know,
it's it's what Caroly descends from. In this case, in Finland,
you dawn a goat costume and you do a little
like show, like a busking show, and then in return
for your performance you get leftover Christmas food. Historically, this
(09:39):
is very important for that part of the world where
you can't grow you know, radishes at certain times of
the year. Got it.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
So there's no there's no actual goat. It's just a
little bit of a goat effigy made it.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
We do burn the goat. We do build and burn
a goat like.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
Very very baking okay of burning straw effigy. And then
I was actually going to bring this as one of
my topics, but I think I'm just gonna do it
by way of a quick aside. There's a film that
came out, I think in twenty twenty three called The
Lord of Misrule that is very clearly a bit of
a wicker Man ripoff. And the Lord of Misrule is
(10:20):
a holiday tradition I believe in medieval times where like
essentially a pleb was assigned to be like appointed in
Scotland as the you know, essentially presiding over the feast
of food. It's kind of like a king for a
day type situation. A peasant or someone lower in the
(10:45):
church religious order, you know, the hierarchy, and appointed to
be in charge and organize all of the Christmas events,
which also included like being in charge of decorations, everything down.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
Temporary temporary authority figure. Doesn't he have another name? I
think the Abbot of unreason, the Lord of misrule, the
abbot of I'm reason, ladies and gentleman Jonath, it's Strickland. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:19):
And also, if I'm not mistaken, the tradition of the
Lord of Misrule, there's another thing that's sort of a
holdover from that, this idea of like in a kingcake
for example during Marty Gaul or if you get the baby,
then that means you're king for a day. Or there's
other Christmas. It's not Christmas, but there are other holiday
festive baking traditions where if you get a sixpence in
(11:41):
your figgy pudding I believe in the United Kingdom, then
that also means something that you're some sort of special
boy for a day. And that came from the tradition
of I believe, putting a sixpence or some other small
trinket into a dish that was then consumed in. Whoever
got the little thing was awarded to be the Lord misrule.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
Ah. Yes, with consequences in the coming year. Right, dating
back to Saturnalia, that's exactly right, Ben, I meant to
bring that up.
Speaker 3 (12:10):
It is something that carried on into the Tutor era
and Elizabethan era. And you know more, I believe in
the medieval eras as well, but it is another one
of those pagan origin stories.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
Yeah, we're going to be super conservative on this episode, folks.
All the stuff you love about Christmas comes from somewhere else,
to be quite honest, And I gotta ask you guys,
have any of us ever gone caroling.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
I've been a was I've been a wassailin. I've been
a was sailed. I've been a wassailent.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
It's true, Nolan Ben, Yes, Max knew.
Speaker 3 (12:49):
I think there was one time I went with some
neighborhood folk when my mother was living in her neighborhood,
and I played guitar. I accompanied the the revelers on guitar.
So most of those songs are really easy to play. Yeah, yeah,
you got the cords down. That's cool man, Max. You're
going to have a good time when you do it,
(13:09):
so long as you do not practice anything other than
the current Caroline or was sailing.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
Yeah, you know, you can't hold me down. But before
I dive into caroling, I do want to just quote
a little something off of Wikipedia, which is sure I
think is a drinking game and internet meme that gained
prominence in twenty ten in which all feels a bottle
of Samaranov eyes, which in which another person will find it.
I've had this stuff for about fifty You're like.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
A moray eel man you bite in.
Speaker 3 (13:41):
Yeah, and also like you know, establishing mores that we
were not aware of. Max, I was not questioning whether
it was a real thing or not. It's just something
that has absolutely not crossed my radar in all of
my forty something years of existence. So, yeah, mean behaviors,
that's a relatively new thing.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
And Max, over the centuries that I have been required
to be here, I have been aware of pranks like that.
They pop up every so often, and if anything, Man,
I'm just glad that you're safe.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
Me too. But you know, it was also another horrifying beverage, watle.
Speaker 3 (14:22):
It's like a fortified wine or is it sort of
like a mead situation. It seems like you'd be thick,
So let's get to that.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
So I was doing a little research on side thanks
to the website Yesterday is America, which I'm referencing here
with the article the Little Known History of the Caroling Tradition. So,
according to the article, caroling or wastle, as it's already
been referenced, actually dates back to the thirteenth century, so
the twelve hundred's. But it wasn't always a Christmas tradition,
(14:57):
and it wasn't even always about singing. It was actually
more about going around to people's houses and wishing them
good cheer and warmth like during the holidays, at least.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
According to them, but according to like the wholesome story.
And I'm going to interject here because we want to
get in front of our ridiculous historians who might be
angry about this. It is kind of racketeering.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
It is get that. We'll get to that, but do.
Speaker 3 (15:26):
You mean it's it's like a bit of like a
being a vacuum cleaner salesman.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
Little holiday cheer you got over here? Okay, okay, it
sounds like you guys got some food, would do a
little sort.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
But so I bring this up because this is actually
where the beverage wastle comes from, because part of the
tradition that say bring this warm beverage to people to
help keep them warm. I found what it was. It
didn't sound very appetizing.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
It's with it.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
And figs, and I it's a medieval spice drink, but
it wasn't until so it's a liquid fruitcake kind of yeah,
but it wasn't until this gentleman by the name of
Saint Francis of ass which he would kind of, you know,
merge them together. But that's not what we're really talking
(16:19):
about today. We're going to talk about this tradition and
special thanks here too, Ammy Glover over at BuzzFeed in
the article that we a lot of us were referencing
from today or about how caroling used to be kind
of more of a shakedown job than anything where basically
kids would go where you know, young men would go
(16:40):
knock on doors of well more well to do people
and sing and then be like, now you owe us stuff,
you know us food or potatoes.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
It's the old version of running up to someone at
a stoplight and non consensually cleaning their windshield.
Speaker 3 (16:57):
It's also certainly got a lot in common with more
anarchistic if that's a word version of trick or treating.
You have delivered the delightful presence of your you know,
Halloween costume, and for that you are owed. Because the
whole idea is if you don't have a costume, you
don't get any candy. But if you have a costume
and you go for the candy, you don't get the candy,
you might be doing a trick.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
Yeah, give treats or get tricks. It's the original version
of f a.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
F oh yeah, and to like, you know, give reference
to it. So one of the lines that they had
they would saying would be We've come here to claim
our right and if you don't open up your door
will lie flat on the floor, okay, which is a
weird which is a weird threat. I'm gonna lie on
your ground.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:40):
Yeah, it seems like it's it's got some more sinister
implications though, if I'm not mistaken, wasn't there pelting with
rocks involved?
Speaker 1 (17:46):
Yeah? I agree with Noel. How far does this go?
Like the obviously the Halloween modern celebration of trick or
treat is a sanitized descendant of these sorts of practices.
So would the carollers actually threw stones? Would they actually
(18:07):
engage in racketeering?
Speaker 2 (18:09):
There are reports of this, so is reference that there
was a case in sixteen seventy nine in Salem where
kids threw stones, bones and other things.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
They stones, bones, and other things. That's the name of
our upcoming album, right, And.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
I'm just wondering, like what type of bones, Like were
the these like animal bones or were these bones of
previous landlords who had not given them potatoes. I'm just
assuming that they were going for potatoes. And they would
do this for about an hour and a half with
and I quote little intermission, which is pretty impressive. That
means you have to have a lot of stones and
(18:47):
a decent bit of bones, and they would destroy stuff
like rip apart fences, break stone walls at least in
this case, and just a lot of things. And considering
this is Salem, I'm a doing. They were all tried
for witches afterwards and burnt.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
Yeah, yep, And that's something we all agree is awesome.
Ten to ten no notes should have happened, he says, sarcastically.
This is this is nuts, folks. If you are fortunate
enough to be in an area of the world where
people are coming up to your domicile and they're singing
(19:27):
nice songs, so silent Night, Holy Night, whatever, or Christmas
Tree or Noel, what are some of the songs you
and your mom played?
Speaker 3 (19:36):
Oh the classics, you know, like, yeah, I mean like
a good King Winschlass, which has got a bit of
a dork dork dark origin itself. Good King winch just
less was apparently like I think he was like drawn
and quartered or like a remembered or something. But we're
gonna ship that one for well. But no, no, I didn't.
(19:57):
But you know all the GCD ones and by the
I mean the chorus, the easy ones to play three chords, Yeah,
for sure. You know it's funny, man. I don't know
if you guys saw this. I sent this around to
a few friends the other day. The comedian in Brent Weinbach.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
I love Brent.
Speaker 3 (20:12):
I like Brent. Brian Bucklett too, and he did a
bit where he says, if you want to make a
new Honkkah song, just take any Christmas song and play
it in a minor key.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
Yeah. Yeah, Brin's a genius. By the way, He's super
good at piano. He's an accomplished musician, sketchwriter, stand up comedian.
One of my favorite bits from our buddy Brent is
when he talks about his time being a substitute teacher
and how he thought he had it bad and he
(20:43):
realized that children had it bad as well. But they
made fun of him for the strangest things. They ran
up to him and they would find something about his
appearance that they would ridicule, no matter what it was.
So they would run up to Port Brent and I
do believe it, it's a true story, and they would say,
oh hell no, oh hell da, mister Weinbach, look at
(21:05):
his tight pants. They would wear baggy pants and they
would run up to him and they'd say, oh, hell nah,
hell da, look at his baggy pants. Look at mister
W's baggy pants. So you can't win. It's a Kobeashi maru.
And one of the things we're establishing here is that
your celebration of Christmas or the end of the year,
(21:27):
your mileage is going to vary based on where you're
located and what your family likes to do. It might
surprise a lot of us, as we're talking about off air,
to learn that spider themed things can play a role
in the most famous birthday celebration ever. For sure.
Speaker 3 (21:49):
Yeah, I love a good I don't know we did
the Halloween crossover, I guess with a little bit more
chaotic caroling, a little more quid pro quo caroling. You know,
comparing it to trick or treating, and this kind of
this feels similar in that there's you know, spiders involved.
So this idea of a spider, a Christmas spider or
(22:11):
a mule tiede spider being used as a decoration on
Christmas trees, which is I think a little bit more
popular in Ukraine and in parts of Germany and Eastern Europe.
But there are several fables surrounding the idea of a
Christmas spider, and there's some that conjecture that it is
directly these these tales are directly what led to the
(22:33):
popularity of Tinsel. So in one version of the story,
most often attributed to Ukraine and Germany, a widowed mother
has a Christmas tree, but it does not have enough
money to properly decorate it. So, in true Cinderella style,
the woodland creatures come to her aid, specifically maybe a
(22:55):
little bit more of a Charlotte's Web style friendly spiders
who come and spend their elaborate ways all over this
evergreen tree. But there's a deis ex machina element to
it as well, because when the mother and her family
wake up, rather than seeing you know, spiders, webs surrounding
their Chris, their bear barren Christmas tree. They see when
(23:15):
the sunlight hits the tree that it magically the sunlight,
by some accounts, turns them into silver and gold threads, which,
again you can put two and two together, is kind
of what you see in tinsil, at least the shiny,
various colors. They can be all kinds of colors. But
that also was from that moment on when the family's
(23:38):
fortune started to turn around. And I'm sure that we've
all heard and I know a lot of people are
really scared of spiders, but they do often represent good luck,
so you're not supposed to kill spiders because it's bad luck.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
But there are other.
Speaker 3 (23:51):
Versions of the story that attribute the Christmas miracle to
Santa or even Jesus Christ himself, who reached down from
monarly from always yeah, transformed those spiders webs into the
gold and silver tensil like material. I guess they would
have been actual precious metal threads that the Good Mother
(24:12):
saw before her. There are some other versions involving a
tree that grows from a pine cone out of doors,
and this is kind of just a slightly different take
on the one I already told, but this one just
involves a tree growing outside, which I guess gives a
little more access to the spiders who then cover the
tree and cobwebs that are then trans What transmogrified, Ben,
(24:35):
is that when things that alchemy has used to turn,
you know, non precious things into precious metals.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
Transmography is transformation with a tie on, you know, transubstantiation.
The Catholic Church got in front of that one, and
so they kind of own that word. But I think
we see what you're saying here, Nol, which is the
idea that people are attempting to explain a thing. And
(25:03):
at some point over the Great Game of Telephone, the
spider webs a longer thing became commodified and celebrated as tensil. Right.
Speaker 3 (25:17):
Yeah, that's exactly right, Ben, And it is a bit
of a trope, as you see, because there are versions
of it that you will see in other parts of
the world Scandinavia, Denmark, Sweden, Norway and Finland. And by
the way, speaking of Wassail, when I was just in Copenhagen,
very very cold, walking around on these Christmas markets, something
called glue wine is very very popular and it is
(25:41):
mulled wine. But that is basically what wassail is. It
is a spiced, fortified kind of wine that is served
hot and it's glue wine literally translates to glow wine
because it warms you up both physically and spiritually.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
Yeah, are you ever drinking wine and you think this
stuff is too cold? Room temperature? Also, it doesn't taste
of potpourri.
Speaker 3 (26:03):
What if it was more like soup?
Speaker 2 (26:05):
Jump in here, you guys. The bar worked out for
a number of years.
Speaker 1 (26:08):
We did a republic.
Speaker 2 (26:09):
Yeah, we did a mould wine every holiday season and
at first people look weird, and then it was the
most popular beverage we had ever.
Speaker 3 (26:17):
People love it.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
People love a people love a tradition, you know what
I mean.
Speaker 3 (26:22):
And really quickly, just one more version of the story
that is a little different. This is you know, this
is again that great historical game of telephone that you
see often with reporting of actual history, but especially with
myths and folklore. In this one, you've got one spider
who's a mother spider again with the Charlotte Webbs vibes,
and then a peasant woman and they essentially give gifts
(26:45):
to one another. With the peasant woman allowing the spider
and her family to live in the branches of their
Christmas tree, and then the mother spider rewarding or paying
it forward in turn by banding together with presumably her
little ones and decorating the tree with gorgeous shimmering webs.
So there's no transmogrification in this version of the story.
Speaker 1 (27:06):
Yeah, it's a pleasant peasant meeting a super wonderful spider
and they're exchanging charity, which is ultimately the parable of
the holidays. But they don't get into a sauda, do they.
Speaker 3 (27:23):
No, no, they don't, but we do have what is it,
eggnog sauna?
Speaker 1 (27:28):
Is that a thing?
Speaker 3 (27:29):
Did I see that come through the chat?
Speaker 1 (27:32):
It's We've talked about egnog at length.
Speaker 3 (27:36):
That's two very different things.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
Oh well, you know what I mean. Fortune favors the bold, right,
That's how you impress people in Finland. Apparently you rock
up to the soda and you say, hey, guys, I
was going to heat up this agnog for you, but
I figured we just sit here and then run outside
and beat the Christ out of each other with fur branches.
(28:04):
We did learn, courtesy of our group chat, that there
is a sorta based tradition in Christmas. So let's go
to none other than super producer mister Max Williams. Max,
what's going on with the sauna thing?
Speaker 3 (28:20):
I think I may have transmographied some topics together in
my mind in the form of eggnog sauna, because there
is a tradition in Finland and sauna culture where they
have sauna sausages and they cook them like whilst in
the saunas.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
And there actually is in Korean sauna's sauna eggs, but
supposedly they don't cook them in the sauna.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
And film we don't cook him in the sauna.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
And Finland they do very much enjoy cooking things. But
just in general, so snic culture is We've talked about this.
We talked about this in our Sausage War episode from
an other years back. It's this kind of part of
Finland culture in general, but especially around Christmas Eve, the
(29:01):
colder months of the year, you are supposed to really
enjoy a lot of time in the saunas. And I
kind of want to talk about Man, you dropped the
finish word earlier, so I'm gonna try to drop one
as well, which is okay, it is kuash makra.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
You nailed it, Max, Why don't you see you just
invoke an eldridge horror from the depths. Yeah, it's like
saying Cardi B's real name. It sounds like a spell, Max,
Can you spell that for us? Speaking of spells?
Speaker 2 (29:31):
Absolutely, it is k I u A s m A
kka r a ah.
Speaker 1 (29:39):
Yes, of course.
Speaker 3 (29:41):
I should have known.
Speaker 2 (29:43):
That is Actually what it means is stove sausage. But
it is sausages that people traditionally cook in the sauna,
so it takes a little bit longer. But what you
generally do is you put it in with some onions,
pour some beer in there, and just uh, let it cook.
Speaker 3 (30:03):
So presumably you're talking about the coals that you would
pour water over to generate the steam. You're cooking them
on that same little little little do dad.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
Yeah. Also, this is way more hygienic, doesn't way less
unusual that it sounds because uh. To Max's earlier point, Nol,
the idea of the sauda is uh is normalized in
Finnish culture, such that if you move into an apartment
(30:34):
building that doesn't have a sauna, then people are going
to think you've moved into the you know, the jets,
the bandos. Uh, it's it's a it's a cool tradition.
Also we after it's a hot tradition. Also we have
to remember that it's pretty cold up there this time
(30:54):
of year.
Speaker 2 (30:55):
Also, according to the Google AI in Finland, Boo in Finland,
which has five and a half million people, there is
estimated to be three million saunas.
Speaker 1 (31:07):
Yeah. Yeah, sometimes you got to get hot.
Speaker 3 (31:10):
And in Europe in general, I mean you're going to
see a lot more of like a public pool culture too,
Like in the even urban areas, like you will see
these very elaborate public bathhouses. And that's true in other
parts of the world as well, obviously, but it's very
much a part of just day to day culture, whether
kids are it's sort of like a YMC eight thing,
but there's just so many more of them, and they're
so clean, and there are very much saunas and steam
(31:34):
rooms incorporated into these.
Speaker 1 (31:35):
It immaculately maintained to your point there, No, we also
know that people pretty much are looking for excuses to
ritualize community, hanging out with friends and family, celebrating the
beginning of one year the ending of the other. This
(31:56):
brings us to a lot of I don't know if
we're going to get to all of this, guys, but
we've got to say it. You know, I used to
live in Central America and one thing they do over
there in Guatemala and specific is a thing called La
Cama del Diablo.
Speaker 3 (32:17):
It's something of the devil.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
Yeah, yeah, you nailed it, You nailed it. It's on
December seventh. The whole town gets together and they essentially
take out all the trash and all the stuff they
want to get rid of, and they make it into
an effigy of the actual devil, right like what they
(32:41):
see as Satan, and then they burn it to represent
the triumph of good over evil. This dates way back
to the sixteenth century, so the fifteen hundreds when the
Conquistadors came over, they established their capital and Antigua, and
(33:01):
they immediately began building, you know, convents, monasteries, churches, and
telling the native people, Hey, this is why we're doing
all this mean stuff to you. We're giving everybody a
break on December seventh, because tomorrow, December eighth, is the
(33:22):
feast of the Immaculate Conception. Shout out to Mary. And
as a result, it became a tradition to celebrate that
big feast day on December eighth by lighting firecrackers and
bonfires and lanterns and then picking up all the stuff
(33:45):
you had at home and building a little devil figure
and then burning it. We're all about burning the effigies
in today's episode. I love it, Ben, I'm here for it. Hey.
It's weird that it's a commonality between so many any
different cultures, is it not. I mean the sorta guys,
you know, shout out to our Finnish ridiculous historians. If
(34:08):
you could get away with burning it historically, you would
have done the same thing, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (34:15):
That's just I feel that that's entirely likely.
Speaker 1 (34:17):
Yeah, or you could uh maybe poop, you could, you
could you could maybe bring poop into the conversation.
Speaker 3 (34:24):
Well that's what you've just done that And I I'm
glad because if I didn't have anything to follow that
up with, I would feel quite foolish. But in fact,
that was a glorious setup for a bit of a
follow up on a character out of the Catalonia region
of Spain that we've definitely talked about in the past,
the the pooper, the little pooping fellow. What's his name, ben,
(34:45):
I kind thet do that's the guy cogt dio. The
pooper or the ster in fact, is another term that's
used a lot. I'm a little foggy on the separation
of these two versions, because there's definitely a the version
of Cagatillo, who is a little fellow who sits with
his little butt in his pants down, his little butt
(35:06):
hanging over at the edge of something like in the
Nativity scene, and he's dropping a poo. And it came
from the Catalonian tradition of trying to fertilize the Nativity
to make it, you know, more conducive to growth and nurturing.
And I don't know it's it's it's a wild one.
Speaker 1 (35:24):
But we have were seen the soil, right.
Speaker 3 (35:26):
I think there were plenty of farm animals around to
do that, though, so I'm not sure why they needed
a little, a little puckish boy.
Speaker 1 (35:34):
You can't burn the goats forever, You'll run out of goats.
Speaker 3 (35:37):
That's true. I don't know that we need to that
there is any version of the atrition that burns Cagatillo.
But we had talked about this guy in this notion
that he was often hidden word for children to find,
almost like an elf on the shelf. And in fact,
there's a lot of elf on the shelf commonality with
Cogatillo because there is a there's no surveillance state.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
Aspect, a lot of commonality.
Speaker 3 (36:02):
Okay, okay, I'll take that one next. I'll take that one.
Speaker 1 (36:06):
The facts.
Speaker 3 (36:08):
That seeking in the fun and peaceful in knowledge.
Speaker 1 (36:14):
It's just for you right now.
Speaker 2 (36:17):
The fact.
Speaker 1 (36:20):
So we're back. Uh No, I'm really interested in this
elf on the shelf comparison because I think you're I
think you're onto something and we have talked about we
have talked about you, which again is just uh the
word just means uncle. But I think we're we're talking
(36:41):
about a log as a anthropomorphized thing, right.
Speaker 3 (36:47):
I do want to walk back really quickly lest any
Spanish speaking folks on the audience are screaming at their
podcast device. There is El kaganair, which is why I
was describing that is a little dude that can be
you know, created in uh ornament form. He's wearing a
little hat and with some linen shirt and he's got
his pants down Popula squad taking a poop, you know, whatever.
(37:07):
You can sit him on a ledge in the Nativity scene.
This is one version of the pooping tradition there in Catalonia, which,
of course the most well known part of that region
would be Barcelona, which is the capital of the Autonomous
Region of Catalonia, which is also known for its excellent
seafood and cuisine. The one we're talking about now that
(37:29):
I wanted to follow up with is Cagatillo, which is
this Christmas log that is an anthropomorphized cartoon ish Christmas
log that itself also poops.
Speaker 1 (37:41):
Yes, yeah, the i it is, but he also poops.
You also have to abuse this poor guy TiO deta
doll to get your wishes or whatever. There's there's a
whole song about it which we talked about. Cagatillo avees
little gandas it's uh, it translates to max is gonna
(38:05):
be a lot of beeps, but the salt translates. One
of the most popular variants to shit teo, hazel nuts
and nugats. Do not herrings, for they are too salty.
Nuggats for they taste better. Sh Teo almonds and nugats.
And if you don't want to ship, I will hit
(38:26):
you with a stick sh to you.
Speaker 3 (38:28):
It's exactly right, Ben. That's one of the more popular
and delightful versions of the song that the kids sing
while walloping it with sticks. But they also are meant
to take care of it, almost like a tamagachi or
like one of those like bags of flour that you
were supposed to carry around in you know, middle school
as a you know, proof that you could, you know,
care for a baby.
Speaker 1 (38:47):
Well, think I'm not letting that go. You had to
carry around a bag of.
Speaker 3 (38:50):
Five I did it, but it was a thing that
I've known to have happened in in in school. And
there's actually it's I think there's an episode of some
popular you know what it was. I think it was
a Strangers with Candy. There's a there's a version of
that sort of high like middle school trope of taking
care of like a bag of flower, and then of
course someone loses the bag of flower or drops the
bag of flower. YadA, YadA, YadA. But the point is
(39:13):
if you do take good care of this holiday log,
you are rewarded, and you mentioned things like nugats, Ben. Yeah,
it goes on to say do not poop herring because
they're too salty, only nugets because they taste better almonds
and nugats. And if you don't want to poop, I
will hit you with a stick poop too. So if
(39:34):
you do a good job and you keep him warm,
it's weird because you're spposed to keep him warm with
a blanket, but you're all supposed to smack him around
so that he keeps you warm. Full of contradictions.
Speaker 1 (39:42):
This it's we're kind of raising children to take care
of a thing and then betray it, which is wild.
But if you want to if you want to hear
the lyrics in full or check out the song, all
you have to do is for Cogateillo on YouTube or
(40:03):
your listening platform of choice. We've got gosh, we've got
so much more that we might have to save for
next year. You guys, I know we didn't get to
let's see some of our favorites. We didn't get to
the Night of the Radishes. That might be twenty twenty
six delos Rabatos, bro.
Speaker 3 (40:25):
What if we combined that with the Night of the
Cannibalistic Scarecrow, Right, that's like some goosebump stuff right there.
There was like almost Dracula esque tale from Germany of
this black Night, and Germany did horrible things names Hans Trump,
who was then turned into a a scarecrow who would
haunt the knights, devouring hapless children and used as sort
(40:48):
of a teachable monster, right like Belsnickel or the Crampus.
Speaker 1 (40:54):
And for everybody here who knows a little bit of Spanish,
the Night of the Radishes that the translation in English
is it's a day in Mexico that is overwhelmingly dedicated
to carving radishes into cool into cool holiday themed scenes.
Speaker 3 (41:17):
That pretty done because the earliest jack O lanterns, I
believe we're radishes or turnips, and on our other show stuff,
they don't want you to know. We're always talking about
digging up the rude begas and we do that year round.
So this is what a good one to end on.
Speaker 1 (41:30):
Ben.
Speaker 3 (41:30):
Honestly, I think this has been a fun listical episode,
a Christmas listical, a chrystical listical.
Speaker 1 (41:37):
It's a Christmas gift from us to you. Even though
not all of us celebrate Christmas, we know Christmas is
whether or not you celebrate the famous birthday. It's a
good time to get together with your friends, your left ones,
it's the end of the year, old Lady sign and
all of that. We can't thank you enough for joining
(42:01):
us here today, folks, and we cannot wait for you
to join us for our future episode, Future Future twenty
twenty six. If we're still able to do this, we're
gonna get to the Night of.
Speaker 3 (42:14):
The Radishes, Night of the Radishes, and maybe the Night
of the Scarecrow, because that actually that Hans Won Traps
or Hans Trap story goes pretty deep into some pretty
dark territories. So maybe a fun slash dark one to
do as well, even in the new year. What do
we care we're not seasonally bouncing to any topic.
Speaker 1 (42:31):
Well, we're just not punctual.
Speaker 3 (42:33):
Good.
Speaker 1 (42:36):
Yeah, eighteen ninety seven. By the way, that's how far
the Night of the Radishes dates back. Because for anybody
who is listening now, you know the Radishes were not
from North and South America. They are part of the
Great Transfer, and we transfer now the torch to you.
Big big thanks to our super producer mister Max Williams,
(42:59):
big big thing thanks to our composer Alex Williams. A
big thanks to Oh I don't want to do it yet, No,
let's say Christopher Hasioti Sieves, Jeff Goat Here in spirit,
Here in Christmas Spirit, Here in Christmas Spirit. Who else? Oh,
big Spinach, Mohammas Copenhagen, that's you.
Speaker 3 (43:19):
Me, Jonathan Strickland, the Quizzers. Yeah, well, you know, it's Christmas.
Speaker 1 (43:25):
We'll let a good all right, we'll let it good.
Speaker 3 (43:28):
We are gonna take some time off with our families
and loved ones and friends for the holidays, So you're
gonna hear a few more classics, but we will see
you refreshed and rejuvenated in the new year. We'll see
you next time, folks. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit
(43:50):
the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to
your favorite shows.
Ridiculous History News
Hosts And Creators
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Noel Brown
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