February 6, 2020 • 33 mins
Let's say you put two containers of water in a freezer. Water in one container is at room temperature, while water in the other container is hot. Which one will freeze first? Many people would understandably assume the cooler water would be the first to freeze -- and that assumption, oddly, would prove to be incorrect. Join the guys as they delve into the story and struggle of young Erasto Mpemba, the student for whom the Mpemba effect is named, exploring his initial experiments all the way to the ongoing controversy over this strange phenomenon.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Ridiculous History is a production of I Heart Radio. Welcome
(00:27):
to the show Ridiculous Historians. Thank you so much for
tuning in. Today's episode is about something that ostensibly is
a very very small thing but turns out to be
very mysterious and it has profound implications. My name is Ben,
and you know I cannot abide your riddles, sir, my
name is Noel. By the way, I can't abide them.
I enjoy them. They just make me furious because they're
(00:48):
they're they're very difficult to solve. Your like the troll
at the bridge and the Monty Python Movie's way better.
Look that's okay, Well, good safe, Thank you man. There's
a there's super producer Casey Pegrum. We're back in that
studio we mentioned in a previous episode where we're surrounded
by fan art that it is not about us. We're
(01:10):
surrounded by fan art, but not surrounded by fans. It
tends to get pretty hot in here. We call this
one the sweat box. That's that's true. That's true. It
has it has an official name, which is Bowie, but
then it has the real name we all use with Stinky,
the Stinky Sweatbox. So here. Here's the thing this is.
This is a bit of a riddle. I like that
phrase because it's something we haven't solved. It turns out
(01:32):
that if you have a glass of hot water and
you have a glass of cold water and you put
them in a freezer, one of them freezes faster than
the other. It's gotta be the cold water bend, because
it's already part of the way there to being frozen
because it's cold. That's what I would think too, That's
what everybody thought. But it turns out the hot water
actually freezes more quickly. I hate that. You hate when
(01:56):
hot water freezes. I just hate that it defies my
meager understanding of the universe. Hey, we all have a
meager understanding of the universe. You know, we're taking baby steps.
This is called the Mapemba effect mp E m b A.
Do youm ma pember the time when this demodynamics we
(02:19):
were working on that? What I have been thinking about
it ever since we started looking at this topic. It's
true the spoiler alert. We have a lot of questions
about this thing called the Mapemba effect. And you may
be asking yourself, why why is my why is my
history crew talking science? On me. Do you guys bait
and switch me. I've wanted a science show. I would
listen to a science show. Well, we're examining the story
(02:42):
of how the Mapemba effect came to be. It's true,
and it turns out we are just as non experts
on science as we are in history. So thematically this
is appropriate, very on brand. Ma Pemba. The Matpemba effect
was in fact named after a Tanzaniine schoolboy who thought,
against all logical reasoning, that ice cream would freeze quicker
(03:07):
if it was first heated. Now, how would someone come
up with such a crazy idea as that? That was
the question his coort, his classmates and his peers were
asking when they mercilessly mocked him. Until that is he
partnered up with his instructor and they performed an experiment. Now,
(03:28):
Orasto Pemba, that's his full name. He was a teenager
at the time and he was, as he said, nol
at school in Tanzania in the nineteen sixties, and he
had lessons in I love this First, he had lessons
in cookery and that's what led him to the ice
cream angle. He was taught to make ice cream by
heating up milk and sugar together on a stove and
(03:48):
then you're supposed to leave the mixture to cool to
room temperature and then you put it in the freezer
to make that delicious, delicious ice cream. But maybe because
he was in a hurry, maybe because he was just
a rebel without a cause or a rebel without a cream. Uh,
he put his hot mix of milk and sugar straight
(04:10):
into the freezer and then he found that it froze
faster then it should have. Then everybody assumed it would,
you know, because he liked the rest of the world thought.
You know, freezing is reaching a certain temperature, right, so
if you're heating something, you're further away from that freezing temperature,
(04:30):
so it should take longer. That's just common sense, right. Uh.
It's strange because it turned out that was not the case. Now. Now, Pemba,
from what we understand, was kind of the black sheep
of his class. He wasn't super popular, right, and that's
because he stuck to his guns, and some of his
guns were weird ones. In three when um Pemba was
(04:54):
in Form three in Magamba Secondary School, so that would
be the equivalent of kind of like a middle early
high school situation. Um. He was fond of, as were
many of the other boys in the school, of making
ice cream. Uh. And he talks about this in a quote.
He says, the boys at the school do this by
boiling milk, mixing it with sugar, and putting it into
(05:14):
the freezing chamber in the refrigerator. A lot of boys
make it, and there's a rush to get space. So
so if you don't get your mixture in, you have
to wait till other people's ice cream is done. And
that you know, it takes a while for for that
to freeze as well, because they're a room temperature like
some schmucks. That's right. So he he got scooped to
(05:35):
use an ice cream term by one of the other
boys who you know, bum rushed him to get that space. Uh.
And instead of missing his chance, he made a game
time clutch decision. Didn't even he did. He said, you know,
I'm just gonna put it in while it's hot. It'll
be fine. And then he came back half an hour,
(05:56):
no an hour and a half later with a friend
of his, and he found that his tray of milk
had frozen into ice cream completely. But his pals was
still not frozen. It had become a thick liquid, but
it wasn't quite ice cream. He was surprised and he
asked his physics teacher, Hey, what's going on? And his
physics teacher said, well, here's what's going on, young Mr
(06:19):
m Pemba. You are confused because what you were describing
is impossible. And he kind of shrugged and said the
equivalent of well, you're the you're the teacher, you're the expert.
I guess it's your job to crush my dreams of
scientific greatness. Uh. But you know, he wouldn't be he
wouldn't be stiming too much longer because he did eventually
try it again, even though he believed the teacher at
(06:40):
the time. But later that year he met a pal
who had his own little side hustle selling ice cream
and tanga uh, and he told Pemba that when he
made his ice cream, he put the hot liquids in
the fridge to make them freeze faster. I love that
he's because the ice cream vendor is like, yeah, yeah, arasto.
(07:03):
Everybody knows, this is my job to know these things, buddy,
in a very functional way. Because again it saves time,
and Ma Pemba found that this was kind of common
knowledge among the ice cream literati of of of Tanga Town. Yeah,
this reminds me a little bit of when you hear
stories of Western Europeans quote unquote discovering something like smallpox
(07:26):
vaccines and stuff. And this is no shade to Edward Jenner.
It typically turns out that somewhere else in the world
there's some ancient culture that knew about this four thousands
of years And in the case of the Ma Pemba effect,
it wasn't just the ice cream vendors in Tanga Town
who knew about this. It turns out that people to
(07:47):
some degree knew about what we call them Pemba effect
as far as two thousand years ago. Right, our boy
Aristotle actually noticed this back as far as the fourth
century when he wrote that many people, when they want
to cool water, quickly begin by putting it in the sun.
That's how Aristotle talked. Yeah, and this is of course
(08:10):
before Aristotle is not specifically talking about ice cream, but
he is. He's wondering about it. He asked why does
this happen? And Francis Bacon and renewed decart asked the
same question. And it's weird because the cart like these
guys are making the same observation. Seriously, Descartes says, we do.
(08:32):
We just been kept a long time on the thighs
is fast than than other water. Now your guy sounds
like he's actually out in the cold when he's saying this,
he sounded he had a little chill in your bones.
It's classic Renee man. I gotta wonder, man, is this
effect similar? I mean, I know they're not wonder wine,
but you know, the whole idea of you defrost meat
under cold water. I wonder if that's similar, because according
(08:55):
to a few articles, meat um can warm up master
from cold water because cold water conducts heat better. I
don't know they're they're not the same at all. I
just just occurred to me that it's a counterintuitive side, right.
And then let's see Francis Bacon notes the same thing,
(09:16):
and then the scientists mar Leani in Renaissance Italy. So
we have multiple luminaries noticing this. But all of this
is the interesting thing. They kind of forget about it
because every single person who notes it just says, huh,
that's weird. I wonder what's going on with uh? With that?
And then they move on to other stuff. Yeah, like
(09:37):
dissecting the nature of reality. You know, it's more of
a priority for these these thinkers, right right, And uh,
my Pemba is the one who brings this back into conversation.
So let's fast forward to when he's in high school.
He learns about something called Newton's Law of cooling, and
that says essentially, uh, it lays out the rules for
(10:01):
how hot bodies are supposed to cool and they have
a couple of assumptions, you know, to keep it simple,
love a hot body and an assumption. Right. So, so
then he asked his teacher again, you know what happened?
Teachers like you're you're confused, And the teacher had like
this kind of snooty burn. Did you see that part
(10:23):
his response to the Pemba. No, I didn't tell me ben,
so I can be burned as well his snooty burn is.
All I can say is that is more Pemba's physics
and not the universal physics. And and then from then
on he would make fun of the kid like he
would the teacher would make fun of him anytime he
(10:45):
made a mistake in math or physics. He would be like,
that's more pember mathematics. I see was his was his
teacher Foghorn Leghorn, I don't know. He shows up a
lot in history or sort of some sort of genteel
Southern lawyer. I don't know, but he was. I don't
think that's a good way to teach students, I agree, definitely,
Not by making fun of them and making them kind
(11:06):
of feel uh like, you know, reluctant to express new ideas.
That's that's no good at all. Yeah, but thankfully for
history and our entire species. Ma Pemba was not so
easily cowed. He was tenacious and he kept going. Eventually
he teamed up with a guy named Dennis Osborne, a
(11:28):
professor of physics at the University of Dar s Salam. Yeah,
he met him when he went to speak at Micawa
High School. And at this event at the high school
he kind of feeled the questions from student body about
like what should I do with my life? You know,
what do I want to be when I grow up
and all that stuff kind of a career day thing. Well, absolutely,
and one of them was how do I get to university?
And uh, you know, he had kind a more run
(11:49):
of the mill questions like that, Ma Pemba asked why
did hot water freeze more quickly than cold? So Ma
Pemba's recollection is the professor Professor Osborne's smiled and then
say hey, could you repeat that? And then he repeated
the question why did hot water freeze more quickly than cold?
And so after that repetition, the professor says, is it true?
(12:11):
Have you done it? Yes? And then the professor said,
I do not know, but I promised to try this
experiment when I am back in dag Salam. And so
this this question still stuck with Osborne and he was surprised.
You know, he thought, obviously this kid is wrong, but
unlike Pemba's earlier teacher, he's not being a jerk. Yeah,
(12:35):
and he actually gives the kid's benefit of the doubt.
I mean, he thinks that maybe he has made a mistake,
but he's gonna you know, uh, what's the word trust,
but verify, not the opposite of that. He doesn't trust,
but he still wants to verify doubt but there verify.
I like that as a as a as a sort
of a different version anti Reagan. I totally agree. But
he actually did the thing. You know, he told the
kid that he'd tried it, and he actually did. And uh,
(12:58):
you know all of the ridicule and and and teasing
that m Pemba had gotten at the hands of his
clearly awful awful classmates and student and teachers, you know,
I mean, good lord, Yeah, there's class sounds really intense
because the next day is tom Pemba's recollection. His classmates
were picking on him in a group and they were saying,
(13:19):
you have shamed us by asking that question. I've never
been I've done a lot of career days, both as
a kid and going to speak at like local schools
and stuff, and I have never been in a situation
where I thought some kid was going to be shamed
or shaming. That's strange, absolutely not. So here's the thing.
(13:43):
Osborne actually was pretty surprised because there was a tech
at the University College in dhar who tried the same
thing and and he saw these results in advance of
him even doing the experiment himself, and so he tried
to you know, explain them and logic them out and
came up with a couple of different theoretical explanations. Uh,
and then actually published the material in different journals. Right yeah. Uh.
(14:08):
The professor didn't believe the technician either, but he said, okay,
let's team up. Let's let's experiment with this. So here's
what they did. They did just what we described at
the top of the show. They took one glass of
water at degrees fahrenheit, and they took another glass of
boiling water, and they put them both in a freezer.
And then they said, well, by golly, by gosh, by gum,
(14:29):
that hotter one did turn to ice at a faster rate.
So in ninety nine they publish a paper on this
experiment in physics education, and the name of the paper
is this will be great for everyone who has to
read a lot of scientific journals. The title of this
paper is simply cool with the question mark cool to
(14:52):
be kind. There we go. Yeah, and then it's like
a lesson on how to believe students too. Uh. So
this result has been replicated numerous numerous times. But according
to a great article and Wired, what's up with that
Repemba effect. The thing is, the pember effect doesn't always
appear to work, and it depends on the relative temperatures
(15:15):
of the two liquids, So kudos the Osborne for saying
this amazing quote. He says, surprising questions are fun. They're
not to be despised. One piece that's to my credit
is that I did not despise. I went off and
researched it. High five man. I feel like I meant
like watching the end of Mr Holland's Opus or what's that?
(15:37):
What's the other stand and delivers Jaws Police Academy. For
all the hits about preaching hearts and minds? Um So,
where where did the part, the real part at the
end of of Mr Holland's Opus or this Mr Holland's
Opus sized version of the story when Mapemba gets his
due by having the effect and question named after him. Yeah, yeah,
(16:00):
it's when he published that paper in sixty nine with
Dr Osborne. Uh. He was at this time Ma Pemba
was studying at the College of African Wildlife Management, but
he never gave up his fascination with the Mapemba effect.
And how cool is it to have an effect named
after you, especially because he has so many close calls.
It could have been the Bacon effect in the car effect,
(16:22):
the Aristotle effect. I mean, let's be honest, he did
the least amount of work. Pemba ma, pemba. Yeah he
I mean, he's rewarded for his tenacity and standing up
and asking the question. But then, you know, there was
a lot of parallel thinking that went into this. But
I do think it's kind of cute that he got
his name attached to it. It's great. Yeah, he got
a lot of you know, he dealt with a lot
(16:43):
of a lot of bullying and a lot of mean
treatment from these crappy kids, and he got to have
his I told you so a moment. But he also
seemed like a good kid, and I doubt if he
if he exercised said moment, you know what I mean. Yeah,
I have a quick question for the audience to Casey.
Don't get mad at me for asking this. If there
was a Pegram effect, what would the Pegram effect be, sir?
I think you get first response to this, the Pegram
(17:05):
effect it would be to pop up for a few
seconds at a time and a podcast and uh and
receive an outsize portion of attention. Foresaid brief interjections. Well, honestly, Casey,
who is in fact on the case. That's sort of
how you do at parties, you know, the pegram effect.
(17:26):
You sort of pop in, make a big impression and
then your ghost out like Kaiser. SoSE that's that's yeah,
that's the George castanz away. Right, you leave him one more,
you leave one more. Okay, So now we get to
we call this the science Hack part of the podcast. Yeah,
can we get a sound cute Casey, something that makes
it sound scientifically minded and like we are wearing white
(17:50):
lab coats, perhaps some chamber music or whatever. Yeah, I like,
I like whatever this is because it's great and uh
curated by hand by super brooster Casey, which is this
is one of my favorite trust falls in the podcasting
because Casey always kills it. So yeah, it turns out
that we still don't know. We just know what everybody
(18:10):
has agreed to call this thing. And like you said,
earlier and old scientists have come up with a bunch
of different explanations, but none of them are one solving
the case. The most straightforward explanation is this, and it's
the idea that hot water evaporates more than cold water,
(18:31):
So when boiling water cools down, it's losing a little
bit of its mass because it's turning to steam, right,
it floats away. And then if that is the case,
then hot water freezes faster than cold water just because
there's less of it, the same way that like a
couple of water would freeze faster than say a swimming pool.
(18:51):
So that sounds like it works, right that. That sounds
like it's a an elegant answer to the question. Or
is it? Because there's a problem with this theory, remember
not all of them. What's the problem with this one? Yeah?
I mean, you know, there are there is some math
that uh shows that this evaporation principle is in fact
(19:13):
a thing, But that only accounts for a part of
this supposed pemba effect, uh. And there have to be
other things at play, right, I mean the pemba uh
he he you know, let's give him a little credit here.
He did, you know, I sort of gave him a
hard time in this in the fashion of some of
these Tanzanian schoolboys. And boy, boy, do I feel like
a hell I'm ashamed of myself now. But he did
(19:36):
do some testing himself, right, and he measured the mass
uh loss to evaporation in that experiment. Um. But he
found that it wasn't quite enough to explain the observable effects,
right that the that the hot water froze quicker than
the cold water. So there's a lot of other ideas
of play, or at least a few that are super important.
One is the dissolved gases actually change waters freezing point,
(20:01):
or um the surrounding environment of the water could actually
have an effect on the outcome. Right. Yeah, those both
makes sense, and in some cases they're the explanation. The
problem is that most of those explanations only apply in
a limited set of cases and one other plots wast here.
(20:27):
Now that we've now that we've built up the Pemba
effect in the story of Rastom Pemba, Uh, we should
go ahead and and throw in a turn. You see,
some scientists aren't even convinced the Mpemba effect is real annoying, right, yeah,
it really throws a wrench into our whole thesis here. Yeah,
we we have were pretty deep into the episode now
(20:49):
to drop that one. Yeah, it's true. So the thing
about the paper cool that Mpemba and Osborne published is
that it has these very extreme differences in freezing time
between hot water and cold water, and literally no one
has been able to recreate those specific differences. Since there's
a really great line to that. That for me sums
(21:12):
up you know, science, and it just says, uh, science
is always complicated. I would tend to agree with that.
But the thing is, there are so many different factors
that could contribute to different results in these experiments. Uh,
and and this this effect that it's almost impossible to
measure them all, I guess, and that sort of the deal.
(21:33):
It's tough. There are a lot of variables at play. Uh.
And of course, you know, scientists at the edge of
research can be somewhat oppositional and passionate, and they want
to argue back and forth to find the correct answer.
There was a paper in twenty sixteen by Henry Burridge
and Paul Lindon. That's right, that's how how recent this
(21:54):
debate remains. Uh. The Linden and Burridge were writing for
the University of Cambridge and they said there is quote
no evidence to support meaningful observations of the mat Pemba effect.
They think it's misleading. They think we're misinterpreting. They think
the Pemba effect is a red herring, and that they're
just slight inaccuracies and measurements. That's the thing. What are
(22:15):
we measuring when we say freezes faster, right, that's the issue.
We're talking about the time it takes to get to uh,
the freezing point, or the time it takes for it
to become completely frozen over. And there's different time frames
where these things can happen, right, Yeah, absolutely, Like if
you froze two things in a in a freezer, even
if it was two glasses of water the same exact temperature,
(22:38):
wouldn't they potentially not go through the same exact process
at the same exact time. Couldn't have to do with
the particular zone that they're in in the freezer. Maybe
there's colder spots or something like. Again, no science expert here,
but it does occur to me that in my fridge,
for example, if I have something closer to the back
of the fridge, it's gonna even freeze a little bit
(22:59):
in the refrigera rad and then the stuff close to
the front doesn't. So there's definitely variations in temperature in
what would be a consumer fridge, which is what he
was using for this original experiment when he originally observed
this phenomena, Right, yeah, I think that's a good I
think that's a really good point. It's strange because it
is very difficult to measure this. For instance, in that
(23:21):
paper where they argue there's no such thing as the
Ma Pembo effect, the scientists say there's a ten percent
inaccuracy when you measure the height of a thermometer when
you're taking the water's temperature, and that could trick someone
into thinking that they have observed this effect. Just for
the record, that papers argument is still pretty controversial, and
(23:42):
many many scientists say, okay, let's not let's not throw
out the baby with the ma pembo water. It's still
it's still very difficult, and that's why Pemba effect experiments,
even if you do want your own house or at
your own secret underground oratory, that's why you may find
different results from one experiment to the next. Here's the kicker.
(24:06):
Even when procedures are repeated with with with what appears
to be the exact same conditions, that's tough, you know.
And then people argue over definitions just like you were
bringing up and only say, like when we say something
freezes faster, are we saying the time it just reaches
the first freezing point at the time when it completely freezes.
I mean, what, what what are we talking about? You know? Well,
(24:34):
so my takeaway from this podcast episode today is that
science is a sham um and school children are smarter
than scientists, right yeah, yeah, overthrow the academy. Uh, shout
out to all the scientists in the crowd. I'm just kidding.
You guys are great. We need you, Yeah, we need you.
Please don't leave the country. And at least yeah, and
(24:56):
if your teacher is letting you listen to this in class, uh,
than kudos to them, because you have a great teacher exactly.
You have like a doctor Osborne, kind of wonderful taste
in human beings, subject matter, a paragon of what it
means to teach, you know. Uh. Probably your teacher probably
(25:16):
also is very good looking, really funny, smells great, all
of that stuff. How much are we gonna pander here?
I think I think we've I think we've pandered ourselves
into a corner back. We reached peak pander I think
we have, and we've reached peak podcast as well. I
think we can get close to wrapping up this tale today,
can't we ben Yeah, we can. We just want to
end on an epilogue with my pemba with what happens
(25:39):
to Erasto himself. So, as we said, he is not
working in physics education. He started working at the Ivory
Room in Dar s Salam. He was working with wildlife
and he originally wanted to be a doctor, but there
were financial problems to pay for the training, so wildlife
(26:02):
management was the best way for him to get an
overseas scholarship. Is it mayored as the Ivory Room selling
the name of a very exclusive night club, like the
Viper Room or something? Sure? Yeah, yeah, And then across
town you have the Ebony Room. Yeah, Like Ivory Room
sounds like maybe something a Victorian era tycoon has in
their mansion. These will adjourn to the Ivory Room. And
(26:27):
just just a backtrack really quick. My reference to the
Ebany Room was just going full circle to Michael Jackson.
Uh do you remember, do you pember? The time there
we go? You got there And eventually he did achieve
his goal of of studying abroad. He got as a
degree in Australia at the Canberra College of Advanced Education.
Camera is that how you pronounced? I think that's hotly
(26:47):
as he has pronouncing like Melbourne exactly Melbourne and camera.
So he got a master's degree from Texas. He became
a principal Game Officer and Ministry of Natural Resources and
Tourism in the Wildlife Vision and he, after a great career,
he retired. His wife is a doctor and he when
he was asked if any of their children were physicists,
(27:10):
he said no, they are not doing well at all
in physics. Do you think he still enjoys a good
ice cream? I hope so, man. I I feel like
he's earned it. I think so too. You get sprinkles.
I think you get sprinkles. Oh man, what what do
you go for? Ice cream wise? What do you guys
go for? Really? Like a chocolate dip, like the old
(27:31):
dairy Queen hard hardened chocolate dip. Really fond of that.
I like like a hazel nut. Yeah, there's this Turkish
ice cream I always wanted to try, or this Turkish
ice cream like substance. Yeah. You know, my favorite ice
cream flavor is of all time was that? And it's
not a favorite for everyone. It's a it's a very
polarizing flavor. Pistachio. Pistachio. Huh I could get down with
(27:52):
some pistachio. How about case pegram. I'm pretty boring. I
like vanilla, I like chocolate. Um, I'm pretty easy going.
Get out. Yeah, I'll show myself. Can we can we
maybe uh convert you? Because there's I have a guy
without a sweet tooth, and I gotta tell you, even
for me, there's a lot of amazing ice cream out there. Yeah.
I was. I was in a kind of a Ben
and Jerry's phase for a while, and I had stuff
(28:14):
doing that. So yeah, yeah, well you know, it's it's
easy to tear through one of those things in a
single sitting. So to tell you what a good alternative
to that is, they have these new uh they're called
pint slices. They're like chocolate covered like a cross section
of one of those. So rather than eating the whole pint,
you eat a circular cut out of the pint. I
(28:34):
can get down with that, because the thing about the
Ben and Jerry's is they've got such variation as as
you know, in the ripple or whatever in the texture.
One bite is not gonna give you all of the majesty,
especially when like the hard kind of chocolate chunks or
whatever that you're kind of digging for and you're like,
let me just get one more those, and then like
half the things gone. And and also they're the are
these what you're talking about? Man? The tiny cups? No, No,
(28:57):
they also have tiny cups. The tiny cups are great,
and that's a very good alternative to getting a because
then you can get a few of them and you
can kind of mix and match. But the pint slices
are literally like an ice cream sandwich minus the sandwich,
but they're covered in chocolate and it's like a cross
section slice of like a pint in the middle kind
of I gotta check when this out. Also, gelato, I
like a good gelot good what I think a gelato
(29:19):
just has more more heavy on the cream. If I'm
not mistaken, it feels silkier, smoother. Yeah, maybe that's just
the way it's been sold here in the US. Also
last week, unrelated ice cream fact. I love this. I
think we may have talked about a previous episode. But
hoggin Dawes doesn't mean anything. The term is just made
(29:41):
up because the people who created Hoggin DAWs wanted it
to sound fancy. It has umluds in it. You can't
just put um louds in things. Ben. Sorry, man, we
live in a society that the memes were right. Like
the band motor Head you knows, been pronounced it as
you were supposed to, it would be muter hid great.
I hope it haunts them. Uh yeah, well r I
(30:03):
p Letty, Yes, r I p Letty and huge thanks
to Rasco Ma Pemba. I hope we all find this
story inspiring because it means that no matter where you
are in life, no matter who you are in life,
you can you can genuinely make a difference. And you
can do that just by paying attention to the world
(30:26):
around you and sticking to your guns. So that's that's
the takeaway from this, at least on my end, you know.
And then we gotta get yeah, Casey some we We're
gonna get you some weird ice cream. Man, We're gonna
get you some some We're getta get weird with it.
Look forward to it. And also science is a sham.
Thanks so much for tuning in high five years Science
(30:48):
teacher if they were playing this episode uh in class.
As always, a big, big thanks to our super producer
Casey Pegram and all the weird ice cream as in
his future. Thanks Alex Williams who composed that slap and
track at the beginning of the show. Thanks to Christopher
the Iceman hasiotas here in spirit as always, Jonathan the
(31:10):
devil Man uh Strickland who lords over us in in
the form of some sort of toxic you know, mi
asthma that just kind of like follows us around like
a Charlie Brown dark cloud. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and uh
thanks to Gabe Young Frosty Lousier. Thanks of course to
Eve's waffle Cone Jeff Coach check out her podcast This
(31:33):
Day in History Class, and big thanks to you my
friend Ben Jamaica Almond Fudge Boland. Hey, thanks to you know,
Hazeling the pistachio Brown Hazeling the pistachio And now that
sounds right at my alley. It sounds like a good thing, right.
You can also find us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram. What
are your favorite ice cream flavors or what are the
(31:54):
weirdest ones you've ever seen? And did you like him?
How do you feel about science? Let us know. You
can check us out on soial media's of all flavors,
including Instagram, Twitter. Uh, still not doing the pinterest thing.
I think we've finally sworn off doing it. Remember at
the beginning the show, we talked about making a Pinterest
page and and we thought that was cute for about
four episodes and then we let that go. But uh,
there's still time. There's always It's a new year, and
(32:17):
apparently Pinterest is a great place to make a vision board,
and apparently a vision board makes your dreams come true. Yeah,
I have a vision board. Seriously, I had it for
a couple of years. Now, good for you, man. Our
good friend in front of the show, rowan newbie has
a band called vision Board but it's spelled b O
r D and it's just fantastic. But as I said,
you can find us individually as well on social media.
(32:39):
I am exclusively on Instagram at how Now Noel Brown
I and on Instagram and hopefully I still will be
after this next adventure I'm about to take, which you
can talk about too much right now, But I am
at Ben Boland. You can also find me on Twitter
at Ben Bolan h s w uh and I do
(32:59):
this like to year. But do you guys want to
go get some ice cream? Anybody? It was a little cold, well, yeah,
save for the summer now, Okay, well I'm gonna heat
it up so it'll be like, yeah, we'll see you
next time. For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit
(33:23):
the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you
listen to your favorite shows.
Ridiculous History is a production of I Heart Radio. Welcome
(00:27):
to the show Ridiculous Historians. Thank you so much for
tuning in. Today's episode is about something that ostensibly is
a very very small thing but turns out to be
very mysterious and it has profound implications. My name is Ben,
and you know I cannot abide your riddles, sir, my
name is Noel. By the way, I can't abide them.
I enjoy them. They just make me furious because they're
(00:48):
they're they're very difficult to solve. Your like the troll
at the bridge and the Monty Python Movie's way better.
Look that's okay, Well, good safe, Thank you man. There's
a there's super producer Casey Pegrum. We're back in that
studio we mentioned in a previous episode where we're surrounded
by fan art that it is not about us. We're
(01:10):
surrounded by fan art, but not surrounded by fans. It
tends to get pretty hot in here. We call this
one the sweat box. That's that's true. That's true. It
has it has an official name, which is Bowie, but
then it has the real name we all use with Stinky,
the Stinky Sweatbox. So here. Here's the thing this is.
This is a bit of a riddle. I like that
phrase because it's something we haven't solved. It turns out
(01:32):
that if you have a glass of hot water and
you have a glass of cold water and you put
them in a freezer, one of them freezes faster than
the other. It's gotta be the cold water bend, because
it's already part of the way there to being frozen
because it's cold. That's what I would think too, That's
what everybody thought. But it turns out the hot water
actually freezes more quickly. I hate that. You hate when
(01:56):
hot water freezes. I just hate that it defies my
meager understanding of the universe. Hey, we all have a
meager understanding of the universe. You know, we're taking baby steps.
This is called the Mapemba effect mp E m b A.
Do youm ma pember the time when this demodynamics we
(02:19):
were working on that? What I have been thinking about
it ever since we started looking at this topic. It's
true the spoiler alert. We have a lot of questions
about this thing called the Mapemba effect. And you may
be asking yourself, why why is my why is my
history crew talking science? On me. Do you guys bait
and switch me. I've wanted a science show. I would
listen to a science show. Well, we're examining the story
(02:42):
of how the Mapemba effect came to be. It's true,
and it turns out we are just as non experts
on science as we are in history. So thematically this
is appropriate, very on brand. Ma Pemba. The Matpemba effect
was in fact named after a Tanzaniine schoolboy who thought,
against all logical reasoning, that ice cream would freeze quicker
(03:07):
if it was first heated. Now, how would someone come
up with such a crazy idea as that? That was
the question his coort, his classmates and his peers were
asking when they mercilessly mocked him. Until that is he
partnered up with his instructor and they performed an experiment. Now,
(03:28):
Orasto Pemba, that's his full name. He was a teenager
at the time and he was, as he said, nol
at school in Tanzania in the nineteen sixties, and he
had lessons in I love this First, he had lessons
in cookery and that's what led him to the ice
cream angle. He was taught to make ice cream by
heating up milk and sugar together on a stove and
(03:48):
then you're supposed to leave the mixture to cool to
room temperature and then you put it in the freezer
to make that delicious, delicious ice cream. But maybe because
he was in a hurry, maybe because he was just
a rebel without a cause or a rebel without a cream. Uh,
he put his hot mix of milk and sugar straight
(04:10):
into the freezer and then he found that it froze
faster then it should have. Then everybody assumed it would,
you know, because he liked the rest of the world thought.
You know, freezing is reaching a certain temperature, right, so
if you're heating something, you're further away from that freezing temperature,
(04:30):
so it should take longer. That's just common sense, right. Uh.
It's strange because it turned out that was not the case. Now. Now, Pemba,
from what we understand, was kind of the black sheep
of his class. He wasn't super popular, right, and that's
because he stuck to his guns, and some of his
guns were weird ones. In three when um Pemba was
(04:54):
in Form three in Magamba Secondary School, so that would
be the equivalent of kind of like a middle early
high school situation. Um. He was fond of, as were
many of the other boys in the school, of making
ice cream. Uh. And he talks about this in a quote.
He says, the boys at the school do this by
boiling milk, mixing it with sugar, and putting it into
(05:14):
the freezing chamber in the refrigerator. A lot of boys
make it, and there's a rush to get space. So
so if you don't get your mixture in, you have
to wait till other people's ice cream is done. And
that you know, it takes a while for for that
to freeze as well, because they're a room temperature like
some schmucks. That's right. So he he got scooped to
(05:35):
use an ice cream term by one of the other
boys who you know, bum rushed him to get that space. Uh.
And instead of missing his chance, he made a game
time clutch decision. Didn't even he did. He said, you know,
I'm just gonna put it in while it's hot. It'll
be fine. And then he came back half an hour,
(05:56):
no an hour and a half later with a friend
of his, and he found that his tray of milk
had frozen into ice cream completely. But his pals was
still not frozen. It had become a thick liquid, but
it wasn't quite ice cream. He was surprised and he
asked his physics teacher, Hey, what's going on? And his
physics teacher said, well, here's what's going on, young Mr
(06:19):
m Pemba. You are confused because what you were describing
is impossible. And he kind of shrugged and said the
equivalent of well, you're the you're the teacher, you're the expert.
I guess it's your job to crush my dreams of
scientific greatness. Uh. But you know, he wouldn't be he
wouldn't be stiming too much longer because he did eventually
try it again, even though he believed the teacher at
(06:40):
the time. But later that year he met a pal
who had his own little side hustle selling ice cream
and tanga uh, and he told Pemba that when he
made his ice cream, he put the hot liquids in
the fridge to make them freeze faster. I love that
he's because the ice cream vendor is like, yeah, yeah, arasto.
(07:03):
Everybody knows, this is my job to know these things, buddy,
in a very functional way. Because again it saves time,
and Ma Pemba found that this was kind of common
knowledge among the ice cream literati of of of Tanga Town. Yeah,
this reminds me a little bit of when you hear
stories of Western Europeans quote unquote discovering something like smallpox
(07:26):
vaccines and stuff. And this is no shade to Edward Jenner.
It typically turns out that somewhere else in the world
there's some ancient culture that knew about this four thousands
of years And in the case of the Ma Pemba effect,
it wasn't just the ice cream vendors in Tanga Town
who knew about this. It turns out that people to
(07:47):
some degree knew about what we call them Pemba effect
as far as two thousand years ago. Right, our boy
Aristotle actually noticed this back as far as the fourth
century when he wrote that many people, when they want
to cool water, quickly begin by putting it in the sun.
That's how Aristotle talked. Yeah, and this is of course
(08:10):
before Aristotle is not specifically talking about ice cream, but
he is. He's wondering about it. He asked why does
this happen? And Francis Bacon and renewed decart asked the
same question. And it's weird because the cart like these
guys are making the same observation. Seriously, Descartes says, we do.
(08:32):
We just been kept a long time on the thighs
is fast than than other water. Now your guy sounds
like he's actually out in the cold when he's saying this,
he sounded he had a little chill in your bones.
It's classic Renee man. I gotta wonder, man, is this
effect similar? I mean, I know they're not wonder wine,
but you know, the whole idea of you defrost meat
under cold water. I wonder if that's similar, because according
(08:55):
to a few articles, meat um can warm up master
from cold water because cold water conducts heat better. I
don't know they're they're not the same at all. I
just just occurred to me that it's a counterintuitive side, right.
And then let's see Francis Bacon notes the same thing,
(09:16):
and then the scientists mar Leani in Renaissance Italy. So
we have multiple luminaries noticing this. But all of this
is the interesting thing. They kind of forget about it
because every single person who notes it just says, huh,
that's weird. I wonder what's going on with uh? With that?
And then they move on to other stuff. Yeah, like
(09:37):
dissecting the nature of reality. You know, it's more of
a priority for these these thinkers, right right, And uh,
my Pemba is the one who brings this back into conversation.
So let's fast forward to when he's in high school.
He learns about something called Newton's Law of cooling, and
that says essentially, uh, it lays out the rules for
(10:01):
how hot bodies are supposed to cool and they have
a couple of assumptions, you know, to keep it simple,
love a hot body and an assumption. Right. So, so
then he asked his teacher again, you know what happened?
Teachers like you're you're confused, And the teacher had like
this kind of snooty burn. Did you see that part
(10:23):
his response to the Pemba. No, I didn't tell me ben,
so I can be burned as well his snooty burn is.
All I can say is that is more Pemba's physics
and not the universal physics. And and then from then
on he would make fun of the kid like he
would the teacher would make fun of him anytime he
(10:45):
made a mistake in math or physics. He would be like,
that's more pember mathematics. I see was his was his
teacher Foghorn Leghorn, I don't know. He shows up a
lot in history or sort of some sort of genteel
Southern lawyer. I don't know, but he was. I don't
think that's a good way to teach students, I agree, definitely,
Not by making fun of them and making them kind
(11:06):
of feel uh like, you know, reluctant to express new ideas.
That's that's no good at all. Yeah, but thankfully for
history and our entire species. Ma Pemba was not so
easily cowed. He was tenacious and he kept going. Eventually
he teamed up with a guy named Dennis Osborne, a
(11:28):
professor of physics at the University of Dar s Salam. Yeah,
he met him when he went to speak at Micawa
High School. And at this event at the high school
he kind of feeled the questions from student body about
like what should I do with my life? You know,
what do I want to be when I grow up
and all that stuff kind of a career day thing. Well, absolutely,
and one of them was how do I get to university?
And uh, you know, he had kind a more run
(11:49):
of the mill questions like that, Ma Pemba asked why
did hot water freeze more quickly than cold? So Ma
Pemba's recollection is the professor Professor Osborne's smiled and then
say hey, could you repeat that? And then he repeated
the question why did hot water freeze more quickly than cold?
And so after that repetition, the professor says, is it true?
(12:11):
Have you done it? Yes? And then the professor said,
I do not know, but I promised to try this
experiment when I am back in dag Salam. And so
this this question still stuck with Osborne and he was surprised.
You know, he thought, obviously this kid is wrong, but
unlike Pemba's earlier teacher, he's not being a jerk. Yeah,
(12:35):
and he actually gives the kid's benefit of the doubt.
I mean, he thinks that maybe he has made a mistake,
but he's gonna you know, uh, what's the word trust,
but verify, not the opposite of that. He doesn't trust,
but he still wants to verify doubt but there verify.
I like that as a as a as a sort
of a different version anti Reagan. I totally agree. But
he actually did the thing. You know, he told the
kid that he'd tried it, and he actually did. And uh,
(12:58):
you know all of the ridicule and and and teasing
that m Pemba had gotten at the hands of his
clearly awful awful classmates and student and teachers, you know,
I mean, good lord, Yeah, there's class sounds really intense
because the next day is tom Pemba's recollection. His classmates
were picking on him in a group and they were saying,
(13:19):
you have shamed us by asking that question. I've never
been I've done a lot of career days, both as
a kid and going to speak at like local schools
and stuff, and I have never been in a situation
where I thought some kid was going to be shamed
or shaming. That's strange, absolutely not. So here's the thing.
(13:43):
Osborne actually was pretty surprised because there was a tech
at the University College in dhar who tried the same
thing and and he saw these results in advance of
him even doing the experiment himself, and so he tried
to you know, explain them and logic them out and
came up with a couple of different theoretical explanations. Uh,
and then actually published the material in different journals. Right yeah. Uh.
(14:08):
The professor didn't believe the technician either, but he said, okay,
let's team up. Let's let's experiment with this. So here's
what they did. They did just what we described at
the top of the show. They took one glass of
water at degrees fahrenheit, and they took another glass of
boiling water, and they put them both in a freezer.
And then they said, well, by golly, by gosh, by gum,
(14:29):
that hotter one did turn to ice at a faster rate.
So in ninety nine they publish a paper on this
experiment in physics education, and the name of the paper
is this will be great for everyone who has to
read a lot of scientific journals. The title of this
paper is simply cool with the question mark cool to
(14:52):
be kind. There we go. Yeah, and then it's like
a lesson on how to believe students too. Uh. So
this result has been replicated numerous numerous times. But according
to a great article and Wired, what's up with that
Repemba effect. The thing is, the pember effect doesn't always
appear to work, and it depends on the relative temperatures
(15:15):
of the two liquids, So kudos the Osborne for saying
this amazing quote. He says, surprising questions are fun. They're
not to be despised. One piece that's to my credit
is that I did not despise. I went off and
researched it. High five man. I feel like I meant
like watching the end of Mr Holland's Opus or what's that?
(15:37):
What's the other stand and delivers Jaws Police Academy. For
all the hits about preaching hearts and minds? Um So,
where where did the part, the real part at the
end of of Mr Holland's Opus or this Mr Holland's
Opus sized version of the story when Mapemba gets his
due by having the effect and question named after him. Yeah, yeah,
(16:00):
it's when he published that paper in sixty nine with
Dr Osborne. Uh. He was at this time Ma Pemba
was studying at the College of African Wildlife Management, but
he never gave up his fascination with the Mapemba effect.
And how cool is it to have an effect named
after you, especially because he has so many close calls.
It could have been the Bacon effect in the car effect,
(16:22):
the Aristotle effect. I mean, let's be honest, he did
the least amount of work. Pemba ma, pemba. Yeah he
I mean, he's rewarded for his tenacity and standing up
and asking the question. But then, you know, there was
a lot of parallel thinking that went into this. But
I do think it's kind of cute that he got
his name attached to it. It's great. Yeah, he got
a lot of you know, he dealt with a lot
(16:43):
of a lot of bullying and a lot of mean
treatment from these crappy kids, and he got to have
his I told you so a moment. But he also
seemed like a good kid, and I doubt if he
if he exercised said moment, you know what I mean. Yeah,
I have a quick question for the audience to Casey.
Don't get mad at me for asking this. If there
was a Pegram effect, what would the Pegram effect be, sir?
I think you get first response to this, the Pegram
(17:05):
effect it would be to pop up for a few
seconds at a time and a podcast and uh and
receive an outsize portion of attention. Foresaid brief interjections. Well, honestly, Casey,
who is in fact on the case. That's sort of
how you do at parties, you know, the pegram effect.
(17:26):
You sort of pop in, make a big impression and
then your ghost out like Kaiser. SoSE that's that's yeah,
that's the George castanz away. Right, you leave him one more,
you leave one more. Okay, So now we get to
we call this the science Hack part of the podcast. Yeah,
can we get a sound cute Casey, something that makes
it sound scientifically minded and like we are wearing white
(17:50):
lab coats, perhaps some chamber music or whatever. Yeah, I like,
I like whatever this is because it's great and uh
curated by hand by super brooster Casey, which is this
is one of my favorite trust falls in the podcasting
because Casey always kills it. So yeah, it turns out
that we still don't know. We just know what everybody
(18:10):
has agreed to call this thing. And like you said,
earlier and old scientists have come up with a bunch
of different explanations, but none of them are one solving
the case. The most straightforward explanation is this, and it's
the idea that hot water evaporates more than cold water,
(18:31):
So when boiling water cools down, it's losing a little
bit of its mass because it's turning to steam, right,
it floats away. And then if that is the case,
then hot water freezes faster than cold water just because
there's less of it, the same way that like a
couple of water would freeze faster than say a swimming pool.
(18:51):
So that sounds like it works, right that. That sounds
like it's a an elegant answer to the question. Or
is it? Because there's a problem with this theory, remember
not all of them. What's the problem with this one? Yeah?
I mean, you know, there are there is some math
that uh shows that this evaporation principle is in fact
(19:13):
a thing, But that only accounts for a part of
this supposed pemba effect, uh. And there have to be
other things at play, right, I mean the pemba uh
he he you know, let's give him a little credit here.
He did, you know, I sort of gave him a
hard time in this in the fashion of some of
these Tanzanian schoolboys. And boy, boy, do I feel like
a hell I'm ashamed of myself now. But he did
(19:36):
do some testing himself, right, and he measured the mass
uh loss to evaporation in that experiment. Um. But he
found that it wasn't quite enough to explain the observable effects,
right that the that the hot water froze quicker than
the cold water. So there's a lot of other ideas
of play, or at least a few that are super important.
One is the dissolved gases actually change waters freezing point,
(20:01):
or um the surrounding environment of the water could actually
have an effect on the outcome. Right. Yeah, those both
makes sense, and in some cases they're the explanation. The
problem is that most of those explanations only apply in
a limited set of cases and one other plots wast here.
(20:27):
Now that we've now that we've built up the Pemba
effect in the story of Rastom Pemba, Uh, we should
go ahead and and throw in a turn. You see,
some scientists aren't even convinced the Mpemba effect is real annoying, right, yeah,
it really throws a wrench into our whole thesis here. Yeah,
we we have were pretty deep into the episode now
(20:49):
to drop that one. Yeah, it's true. So the thing
about the paper cool that Mpemba and Osborne published is
that it has these very extreme differences in freezing time
between hot water and cold water, and literally no one
has been able to recreate those specific differences. Since there's
a really great line to that. That for me sums
(21:12):
up you know, science, and it just says, uh, science
is always complicated. I would tend to agree with that.
But the thing is, there are so many different factors
that could contribute to different results in these experiments. Uh,
and and this this effect that it's almost impossible to
measure them all, I guess, and that sort of the deal.
(21:33):
It's tough. There are a lot of variables at play. Uh.
And of course, you know, scientists at the edge of
research can be somewhat oppositional and passionate, and they want
to argue back and forth to find the correct answer.
There was a paper in twenty sixteen by Henry Burridge
and Paul Lindon. That's right, that's how how recent this
(21:54):
debate remains. Uh. The Linden and Burridge were writing for
the University of Cambridge and they said there is quote
no evidence to support meaningful observations of the mat Pemba effect.
They think it's misleading. They think we're misinterpreting. They think
the Pemba effect is a red herring, and that they're
just slight inaccuracies and measurements. That's the thing. What are
(22:15):
we measuring when we say freezes faster, right, that's the issue.
We're talking about the time it takes to get to uh,
the freezing point, or the time it takes for it
to become completely frozen over. And there's different time frames
where these things can happen, right, Yeah, absolutely, Like if
you froze two things in a in a freezer, even
if it was two glasses of water the same exact temperature,
(22:38):
wouldn't they potentially not go through the same exact process
at the same exact time. Couldn't have to do with
the particular zone that they're in in the freezer. Maybe
there's colder spots or something like. Again, no science expert here,
but it does occur to me that in my fridge,
for example, if I have something closer to the back
of the fridge, it's gonna even freeze a little bit
(22:59):
in the refrigera rad and then the stuff close to
the front doesn't. So there's definitely variations in temperature in
what would be a consumer fridge, which is what he
was using for this original experiment when he originally observed
this phenomena, Right, yeah, I think that's a good I
think that's a really good point. It's strange because it
is very difficult to measure this. For instance, in that
(23:21):
paper where they argue there's no such thing as the
Ma Pembo effect, the scientists say there's a ten percent
inaccuracy when you measure the height of a thermometer when
you're taking the water's temperature, and that could trick someone
into thinking that they have observed this effect. Just for
the record, that papers argument is still pretty controversial, and
(23:42):
many many scientists say, okay, let's not let's not throw
out the baby with the ma pembo water. It's still
it's still very difficult, and that's why Pemba effect experiments,
even if you do want your own house or at
your own secret underground oratory, that's why you may find
different results from one experiment to the next. Here's the kicker.
(24:06):
Even when procedures are repeated with with with what appears
to be the exact same conditions, that's tough, you know.
And then people argue over definitions just like you were
bringing up and only say, like when we say something
freezes faster, are we saying the time it just reaches
the first freezing point at the time when it completely freezes.
I mean, what, what what are we talking about? You know? Well,
(24:34):
so my takeaway from this podcast episode today is that
science is a sham um and school children are smarter
than scientists, right yeah, yeah, overthrow the academy. Uh, shout
out to all the scientists in the crowd. I'm just kidding.
You guys are great. We need you, Yeah, we need you.
Please don't leave the country. And at least yeah, and
(24:56):
if your teacher is letting you listen to this in class, uh,
than kudos to them, because you have a great teacher exactly.
You have like a doctor Osborne, kind of wonderful taste
in human beings, subject matter, a paragon of what it
means to teach, you know. Uh. Probably your teacher probably
(25:16):
also is very good looking, really funny, smells great, all
of that stuff. How much are we gonna pander here?
I think I think we've I think we've pandered ourselves
into a corner back. We reached peak pander I think
we have, and we've reached peak podcast as well. I
think we can get close to wrapping up this tale today,
can't we ben Yeah, we can. We just want to
end on an epilogue with my pemba with what happens
(25:39):
to Erasto himself. So, as we said, he is not
working in physics education. He started working at the Ivory
Room in Dar s Salam. He was working with wildlife
and he originally wanted to be a doctor, but there
were financial problems to pay for the training, so wildlife
(26:02):
management was the best way for him to get an
overseas scholarship. Is it mayored as the Ivory Room selling
the name of a very exclusive night club, like the
Viper Room or something? Sure? Yeah, yeah, And then across
town you have the Ebony Room. Yeah, Like Ivory Room
sounds like maybe something a Victorian era tycoon has in
their mansion. These will adjourn to the Ivory Room. And
(26:27):
just just a backtrack really quick. My reference to the
Ebany Room was just going full circle to Michael Jackson.
Uh do you remember, do you pember? The time there
we go? You got there And eventually he did achieve
his goal of of studying abroad. He got as a
degree in Australia at the Canberra College of Advanced Education.
Camera is that how you pronounced? I think that's hotly
(26:47):
as he has pronouncing like Melbourne exactly Melbourne and camera.
So he got a master's degree from Texas. He became
a principal Game Officer and Ministry of Natural Resources and
Tourism in the Wildlife Vision and he, after a great career,
he retired. His wife is a doctor and he when
he was asked if any of their children were physicists,
(27:10):
he said no, they are not doing well at all
in physics. Do you think he still enjoys a good
ice cream? I hope so, man. I I feel like
he's earned it. I think so too. You get sprinkles.
I think you get sprinkles. Oh man, what what do
you go for? Ice cream wise? What do you guys
go for? Really? Like a chocolate dip, like the old
(27:31):
dairy Queen hard hardened chocolate dip. Really fond of that.
I like like a hazel nut. Yeah, there's this Turkish
ice cream I always wanted to try, or this Turkish
ice cream like substance. Yeah. You know, my favorite ice
cream flavor is of all time was that? And it's
not a favorite for everyone. It's a it's a very
polarizing flavor. Pistachio. Pistachio. Huh I could get down with
(27:52):
some pistachio. How about case pegram. I'm pretty boring. I
like vanilla, I like chocolate. Um, I'm pretty easy going.
Get out. Yeah, I'll show myself. Can we can we
maybe uh convert you? Because there's I have a guy
without a sweet tooth, and I gotta tell you, even
for me, there's a lot of amazing ice cream out there. Yeah.
I was. I was in a kind of a Ben
and Jerry's phase for a while, and I had stuff
(28:14):
doing that. So yeah, yeah, well you know, it's it's
easy to tear through one of those things in a
single sitting. So to tell you what a good alternative
to that is, they have these new uh they're called
pint slices. They're like chocolate covered like a cross section
of one of those. So rather than eating the whole pint,
you eat a circular cut out of the pint. I
(28:34):
can get down with that, because the thing about the
Ben and Jerry's is they've got such variation as as
you know, in the ripple or whatever in the texture.
One bite is not gonna give you all of the majesty,
especially when like the hard kind of chocolate chunks or
whatever that you're kind of digging for and you're like,
let me just get one more those, and then like
half the things gone. And and also they're the are
these what you're talking about? Man? The tiny cups? No, No,
(28:57):
they also have tiny cups. The tiny cups are great,
and that's a very good alternative to getting a because
then you can get a few of them and you
can kind of mix and match. But the pint slices
are literally like an ice cream sandwich minus the sandwich,
but they're covered in chocolate and it's like a cross
section slice of like a pint in the middle kind
of I gotta check when this out. Also, gelato, I
like a good gelot good what I think a gelato
(29:19):
just has more more heavy on the cream. If I'm
not mistaken, it feels silkier, smoother. Yeah, maybe that's just
the way it's been sold here in the US. Also
last week, unrelated ice cream fact. I love this. I
think we may have talked about a previous episode. But
hoggin Dawes doesn't mean anything. The term is just made
(29:41):
up because the people who created Hoggin DAWs wanted it
to sound fancy. It has umluds in it. You can't
just put um louds in things. Ben. Sorry, man, we
live in a society that the memes were right. Like
the band motor Head you knows, been pronounced it as
you were supposed to, it would be muter hid great.
I hope it haunts them. Uh yeah, well r I
(30:03):
p Letty, Yes, r I p Letty and huge thanks
to Rasco Ma Pemba. I hope we all find this
story inspiring because it means that no matter where you
are in life, no matter who you are in life,
you can you can genuinely make a difference. And you
can do that just by paying attention to the world
(30:26):
around you and sticking to your guns. So that's that's
the takeaway from this, at least on my end, you know.
And then we gotta get yeah, Casey some we We're
gonna get you some weird ice cream. Man, We're gonna
get you some some We're getta get weird with it.
Look forward to it. And also science is a sham.
Thanks so much for tuning in high five years Science
(30:48):
teacher if they were playing this episode uh in class.
As always, a big, big thanks to our super producer
Casey Pegram and all the weird ice cream as in
his future. Thanks Alex Williams who composed that slap and
track at the beginning of the show. Thanks to Christopher
the Iceman hasiotas here in spirit as always, Jonathan the
(31:10):
devil Man uh Strickland who lords over us in in
the form of some sort of toxic you know, mi
asthma that just kind of like follows us around like
a Charlie Brown dark cloud. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and uh
thanks to Gabe Young Frosty Lousier. Thanks of course to
Eve's waffle Cone Jeff Coach check out her podcast This
(31:33):
Day in History Class, and big thanks to you my
friend Ben Jamaica Almond Fudge Boland. Hey, thanks to you know,
Hazeling the pistachio Brown Hazeling the pistachio And now that
sounds right at my alley. It sounds like a good thing, right.
You can also find us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram. What
are your favorite ice cream flavors or what are the
(31:54):
weirdest ones you've ever seen? And did you like him?
How do you feel about science? Let us know. You
can check us out on soial media's of all flavors,
including Instagram, Twitter. Uh, still not doing the pinterest thing.
I think we've finally sworn off doing it. Remember at
the beginning the show, we talked about making a Pinterest
page and and we thought that was cute for about
four episodes and then we let that go. But uh,
there's still time. There's always It's a new year, and
(32:17):
apparently Pinterest is a great place to make a vision board,
and apparently a vision board makes your dreams come true. Yeah,
I have a vision board. Seriously, I had it for
a couple of years. Now, good for you, man. Our
good friend in front of the show, rowan newbie has
a band called vision Board but it's spelled b O
r D and it's just fantastic. But as I said,
you can find us individually as well on social media.
(32:39):
I am exclusively on Instagram at how Now Noel Brown
I and on Instagram and hopefully I still will be
after this next adventure I'm about to take, which you
can talk about too much right now, But I am
at Ben Boland. You can also find me on Twitter
at Ben Bolan h s w uh and I do
(32:59):
this like to year. But do you guys want to
go get some ice cream? Anybody? It was a little cold, well, yeah,
save for the summer now, Okay, well I'm gonna heat
it up so it'll be like, yeah, we'll see you
next time. For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit
(33:23):
the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you
listen to your favorite shows.
Ridiculous History News
Hosts And Creators
Ben Bowlin
Noel Brown
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