August 14, 2018 • 34 mins
In April of 1870, a shocking court case captivated Victorian England: Fanny and Stella, also known as Frederick Park and Ernest Boulton, were arrested after attending a play at The Strand (in what was then considered inappropriate dress) and held on suspicion of violating the moral codes of the time. Listen in to learn more about the absurd legal war England waged against these two twenty-somethings, and the consequences of this ill-informed crusade.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:10):
Yeah. We're opening today's episode with an excerpt from a
letter written on November around probably eight sixty nine. My
(00:33):
dearest Arthur, how very kind of you to think of
me on my birthday. I had no idea that you
would do, so it was very good of you to write,
and I am really very grateful for it. I require
no remembrances of my sister's husband, as the many kindnesses
he has bestowed upon me will make me remember him
for many a year, and the birthday present he is
(00:53):
so kind as to promise me, will only be one
addition to the heap of little favors I already treasure
up and we'll cut it there and go to the
signature and says, believe me, your affectionate sister in law,
Fanny Winnifred Park and uh, Fanny Winnifred Park in this
letter is writing to a fellow named Lord Arthur Clinton.
(01:14):
That's right, we'll get to you. Okay, we'll circle back
to this part of the story. Welcome to the Ridiculous history. Yeah,
oh yeah, yeah, yeah, who are you? Okay? And I'm Ben.
You are still Ben, yes, And that's what they call me,
uh in this part of the world. And we are
of course joined as always with our super producer, Casey Pegram.
What do they call you elsewhere in the world, Ben,
(01:35):
And do you have a knighthood that we don't know about?
Are you a sir or a lord? I don't know
if it is something you could pronounce, not just you specifically,
I mean the human tongue. Yeah, got it. It's kind
of weird, but you know how it is. You get
in situations, you travel, Yeah, whichy stuff happens? Yeah, you
make deals whatever. Boy, we got off the we got
(01:56):
off the rails really quickly on this wal shaking my
shaking his head. Okay, So the Fanny in question who
is writing to Lord Clinton is someone known as Mrs
Fanny Graham like Graham Cracker, right, And the sister she
(02:16):
is referring to is someone named Ms. Stella Bolton or
occasionally she will sign things as Stella Clinton. That's right.
And they referred to each other constantly as sisters. Um.
But in fact, these two quite theatrical individuals were in
fact their Christian names were Ernest Bolton and William Park,
(02:37):
and they were in fact men who were widely known
in the London theater community UM as being very successful
cross dressers. And I just want to point out right
up front, yeah, I thought that term was antiquated. I
wasn't sure if that was like the okay thing to say,
but I did look it up on the Gay and
Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation website which has a media section,
(02:58):
and cross dresser is there for term does not imply
um that either individual is gay, but it's just specifically
referring to someone of a gender that likes to dress
like a member of another gender. And that was the
case with Fannie and Stella Rights. So. Stella, also known
(03:18):
as Ernest, was born in eighteen forty seven, the child
of a stock broker, and Park was born in eighteen
forty six, the child of a barrister, so a legal official.
That's right. And Stella's mother encouraged him from an early
age to kind of follow that impulse to wear clothing
(03:43):
of of the the opposite sex, which was kind of
common in Victorian era, or not less uncommon than it
is now. That's right, because women, for a long time
we're not allowed to act in the theater, so parts,
female parts were played by men and drag, right, and
this this was an old tradition, and these two people
(04:06):
were talented actors. Bolton in particular was known for having
a wonderful soprano voice, and they both regularly played female
parts in legitimate theaters and then also at this time,
some theatrical productions would go to uh country house private
homes for private event of like let's say, um, philanthropists
(04:28):
of the arts. They would have a salon at that
house and like host some sort of event where there
would be a play put on and a collection of
various wealthy individuals from the community would go there and
check it out, like Lord raving Ham Poutin on the Ritz,
Lord Pilkington of Ebbsworth. Yeah, Lord Webby Toes hand Time
(04:50):
the of the of the old Northern English hand time dynasty. No,
but we are The point is true and and it's
important thing to to mentioned. They were playing these female
parts in theatrical productions, but they were also uh wearing
clothing that Victorian society said should only be worn by
(05:13):
women off stage. Yeah, like in public, like walking around
town and um, just just to paint your picture here.
They were not necessarily professional actors. It was something they
like to do in their free time. But in their
day jobs, their day lives. Earnest Um who was twenty two,
and Frederick who was twenty three, just a year old.
That's right. Frederick was a law student, and I believe
(05:34):
Ernest was a clerk um at a law firm. Um
and I think he ended up working at a bank
as well at some point. And let's let's examine their
lives a little in a little more details. So these
are famous friends. They referred to each other as sisters.
They have this really strong bond and you know, they're
in their early twenties. What a time to be alive, right,
(05:57):
glory days. They also do not shy away from public
attention or controversy the dresses of the time. For anybody's
interested in the history of fashion, we'd also like to
recommend our Pure podcast Dressed available now wherever you find
your favorite shows. But their clothing that they would wear,
(06:18):
it was incredibly complicated, at least to me, unlike a
slacks and address shirt guy. But it's important to note
that they also dressed as what would stereotypically be considered
men two, and they would stroll back and forth what's
called the derby. This is from a great article on
(06:39):
Indiana dot e d you off the pedestal. Uh. They
would attract attention because they would wearing male dress, but
they would also wear makeup, which was normally associated with
women at the time. That's right. There were several accounts
of folks who knew them around town who said that
they thought that they were too gay women wearing men's clothing.
(07:03):
And there were accounts of folks who when when seeing
them wearing women's clothing, thought they were two gay men
wearing women's clothing. So they like, the gender identity is
extra kind of muddled up here in in a really
interesting way. The thing about it is to theaters, in
particular in London were kind of a hotbed for this
sort of underground gay world was certainly not accepted um
(07:27):
in the mainstream. These theaters would be away for folks
in this scene to connect with one another obviously before
you know Facebook and tender and scruff and things like that.
They had to have away and also to kind of
keep it secret. Yeah, there was another thing that occurred
called molly house. Do you hear about this? So? A
(07:49):
molly house was a term that was used in the
eighteenth and nineteenth century to describe a meeting place. Uh,
this kind of meeting place, particularly in England, and they
were generally taverns, bars essentially coffee houses or sometimes private rooms.
And the thing about it is, at this time any
(08:10):
kind of same sex activity was considered illegal and remained
a capital offense until the eighteen sixties, capital offense meaning
the death penalty, and sodomy, the act of sodomy carried
that sentence, sodomy being a pretty loaded term, absolutely, and
(08:31):
in this context that word refers to a particular type
of penetrative sex act. Yes, that is, that is correct.
And it's a very important point that we're making here
because this need for secrecy was not some kind of like,
oh fun marketing thing like those fake speakeasy bars that
are so common in the US these days. This was
(08:53):
necessary to protect these people's lives. And it just goes
to show how bold Fannie and spell a word in
kind of flouting this and just you know, doing their
thing and going to these very public places, wearing these
outfits and flirting with very powerful men. Um. In fact,
the letter man that you read at the very top
(09:15):
of the show was written to one of these powerful
men who plays a very important part in this story. Yes, yes,
we should set him up before we dive in. Good call.
Lord Arthur Pelham Clinton Uh as an English aristocrat born
in eighteen forty and he was, you know, creme de
la creme of society at the time he went to Eton.
(09:38):
He was in the Royal Navy, He was in the
Crimean War. He was in Parliament for three years. He
was in parliament, he had a personal connection with the
Prime Minister, who was the godson of William Gladstone. This
guy had what we call the juice. He had connects. Yeah, absolutely,
And he had a relationship in eighteen seventy with Stella
(10:04):
or Ernest Bolton. And at the time he was technically
considered a naval officer, but he was retired and he
was formerly at one time he had been a man
of great wealth and means. But a few years before
eighteen seventy he had to declare bankruptcy to the tune
(10:25):
of like but seventy thousand pounds back then, so a
little bit of inflation calculation, casey, I don't know if
we have a sound cue for that. That amounts almost
six million pounds today. So he was deep. He had
a lot of problems, but he had found love with
(10:48):
Stella or Ernest Bolton. And we should take this time
to mention the fact that Stella, between Stella and Fanny,
was considered the more feminine looking one. And if you
see pictures of them, of which there is one with
Lord Arthur and both of them, um, Stella is as
much more effeminine features. And Fanny doesn't even really look
like a female in this picture, looks wearing kind of
(11:10):
a sweater and has more of a cropped haircut. Uh.
And it's very interesting and mentioned in several of these
articles we've been looking at. One in particular on the
Guardian mentions the fact that when you look at pictures
of the two of them and you see Fanny, you
might wonder, by today's standards, how people may have been
confused about the gender of this person. Uh see, yeah,
(11:31):
that's uh. That's a great article by Katherine Hughes Fanny
and Stella, The young Men who Shocked Victorian England. It's
a review of a book by Neil McKenna, who does
some great research here. I think we've we've set this
scene right there, pushing these social boundaries in a way
that probably has several of their friends and and uh
(11:51):
loved one saying be careful watch out well we should
also just one last thing is that Stella presented herself
as the wife of Lord Love, Lord Clinton, Lord Clinton.
And that's yeah, and that's why in the excerpt of
the letter we read from Fanny, that's why you hear
them say anything sister in law, sister in laws, right,
(12:13):
and uh, they took this relationship very seriously. It wasn't
just like some in joke. And when you read these letters,
it's crazy, especially some of the short the shorter ones,
kind of dicey ones where like they're kind of like
feuding a little bit. Yeah, it's like, hey, don't take
what Stella said personally. She was drinking and yeah. Or
(12:33):
there's one where where Stella's saying to Lord Clinton, how
dare you be so rude to me? And you know
it's very like, you know, terst kind of lovers spat
kind of stuff. Um, So we have set the scene, Ben,
and now the year is eighteen sixty nine, Yes, the
years eighteen sixty nine. You see, it wasn't just civilians
taking notice of the adventures of Fanny and Stella around town. No,
(12:57):
the local law enforcement notice as well, and they started
following the pair, monitoring their movements for like a year. Yeah,
an intensive year. Was their real crime that they could
have been addressing, Yeah, absolutely did. London was a very
(13:18):
dangerous place in those days, and so they followed them
for a year. And let's fast forward to a Thursday
on April That's right. The pair is attending a performance
at the Strand Theater in London with a mutual friend
(13:41):
of theirs, right, Hugh Alexander Mundel. And as per usual
when they're going out of a night to the theater,
they are dressed to the nines, wearing evening frocks with
all of the Coutremont gloves, bodice is everything that would
go along with it, lace that, Yeah, the whole line.
And um, they actually have a private box. They're the
(14:06):
detective who was following them as saw them meet to
other people. But as they were leaving, as you said,
no police superintendent and a police sergeant had joined with
the detective while the group was watching the show, and
they arrested Bolton Park and this other person who Alexander Mundel,
(14:28):
as they attempted to leave, the others escaped. The three
arrested individuals were then subjected to a humiliating battery of examinations. Yeah,
that's a perfect way to say, Yeah, to establish whether
they had in fact had that, like, had experienced that
(14:48):
sexual act right that they were they were specifically looking for.
And then they were brought to the magistrate at the
Bow Street Magistrates Court the next day and they were
not allowed to change, They were not given the option
to change into different clothing. They were just kept overnight
and then hauled out, which to me seems like another
(15:11):
purposeful act of humiliation. Oh absolutely. I mean they were
forced to stay in the jail cells wearing their wigs
and everything. And there's a great quote in this review
of the Neil McKenna book from Katherine Hughes that describes
the scene as such, after a night in the cells,
with wigs slipping and stubble poking through, it was pretty
clear to the pact and panting courtroom that the two
(15:33):
tarts were actually young men. Very strange way of putting in.
I feel like this was old who would write like that?
Why would they call them tarts? That seems really offensive.
It's still British term that there is, but tart is
an archaic term. That's fair, Okay, I'll go on their names.
According to the charge sheet, where Ernest Bolton and Frederick
Park to their friends, they were Stella and Fanny, and
(15:53):
in the newspapers they now became front page fixtures known
as the funny he she ladies tremendously offensive. This is
when it officially becomes what's called the Bolton and Park scandal.
So at this time there is a minor law that
they could be considered breaking, which is called personation of
(16:15):
a woman. Yeah, so I think it was a misdemeanor. Yeah,
it's like it's it's a lower charge. It's definitely not
a capital offense. And what the court system is trying
to do in the preceding legal arguments here is they're
trying to prove not that these people were quote unquote
personating a woman, but that they were engaged in unlawful
(16:38):
sexual relations. Yeah, that's right. I mean, it seems to
me like they were trying very desperately to make an
example of the two um in a in a really
horrific way that I believe stretched up to someone in
the neighborhood of fourteen hearings UM and it became a
total media circus because you know, the public wanted to
(16:58):
get a look at them because they this like, you know,
horribly offensive title. Now with the that was, you know,
took the public's imagination by storm, the funny ladies, So
it became this total ship show of a trial, right,
and the the details of the law under which they
would have been prosecuted, perhaps persecuted is a better word
(17:20):
here required the court to have a witness, someone who
could say, I know and I saw this thing happening
with these two people that I can conclusively identify. The
problem was that despite the terrible media atmosphere of the
(17:42):
time and the national attention focused on it, the prosecution
was unable to find the witness. They were unable to
prove that anything happened. That's right, But you know, one
of the most galling pieces of evidence to the prosecution
has been it was the fact that Stella, while attending
this performance at the Strand Theater, had apparently had the
(18:04):
audacity to use the women's laboratory. That was one of
the huge things they were I think they were already
planning to arrest them, yes that night, absolutely, but yeah,
that was that was one of the things that the
broadsheets the newspapers of the time really latched onto. That's right,
the penny papers. And here is a pretty um interesting
(18:26):
and telling quote from the way this was all kind
of portrayed to the public. There is one peculiar trait
in the evidence that stands out in bold and audacious relief,
and two plainly shows the base and prurient nature which
these misguided youths, for they are but little more, must possess.
We refer to the entrance of Park into the retiring room,
(18:49):
which is set apart for ladies at the Strand Theater,
who had the unblushing impudence to apply to the female
attendant to fasten up the gathers of his skirt, which
he alleged had come unfastened. And the character we had mentioned,
the husband of Stella, also returns to this story in
(19:12):
a tragic way. He is implicated. Yeah, but he is
unable to testify because he had passed away, officially on
paper from scarlet fever. But many um whispers implying that
he he had taken his own life. Yeah, that was
on June, literally the day after he received his subpoena
(19:35):
for the trial. So circumstances strongly point to him taking
his own life. And then at the time there was speculation, however,
that before he had done this, either died of scarlet
fever or committed suicide for the the blow his reputation
would take. Right from being implicated in this, there's pretty
(19:55):
solid speculation that he had used those existing connection to
fake his death. Pretty interesting stuff, Ben, and not to
muddy the waters here, we'll get back to the conclusion
of um Fannie and Stella's story, But there's another bit
of implication that after he supposedly either died or disappeared,
(20:19):
another woman woman identifying as male in dress, impersonated him
and he used his name to defraud other wealthy individuals
of of money. Yeah, Mary Jane Fair, No, that's that's
her given name, and she was claiming to be Lord
(20:42):
Arthur Clinton and to double muddy this or to muddy
it further while while pretending to be Lord Arthur Clinton,
Mary would also sometimes dress as a woman, so dressing
as Clinton, dressing as a woman, arguing that it was
to throw people off the trail. Complicated, Yeah, but so,
(21:09):
but you know, we kind of already spilled the beans
that there's a happy ending to this story and that
they were acquitted or or that the jury did not convict. Yes,
they were finally acquitted. And the problem here is that,
I mean, we could talk about how how they were acquitted.
So the prosecution was not able to prove that there
(21:33):
was any offense committed under the laws of the time.
And they also, despite the personation of a woman misdemeanor charge,
they weren't able to get that to stick either. After
the Lord Chief Justice presiding, a guy named Sir Alexander Cockburn,
summed up the prosecution's case. He said that the prosecution's
(21:56):
case was garbage juice and that the police were acting unprofessionally.
And then the jury took about fifty three minutes to
deliberate they found both individuals not guilty. So imagine the
emotional roller coaster, right, And it's pretty cool because one
account that I read UM says that when that non
(22:19):
guilty verdict was rendered, everyone in the gallery UM exclaimed
with shouts of bravo. So you know, they were well
liked in the community and they were known, and it
seems as though at least the people in the courtroom
they were there to support them. Um, We're kind of
in their corner. Yeah, yeah, and this this leads us
(22:40):
to a larger social context here too. One thing I
really appreciated about Katherine Hughes's article was noting the great
changes in society that we're occurring at the time. Right
in eighteen seventy, the Republican movement was reaching a tipping point,
the work of Charles Arles Darwin was propagating out through
(23:02):
the world. Paris had quote become a commune, and there
was this cultural ecosystem in which this trial occurred. This
finding you had later consequences on the world of English law,
especially when it comes to gender identity. That's right, It's
(23:24):
something we haven't mentioned. But um, at this point they
did not make distinctions of of gay people. It was
more distinctions of acts. So no one would have referred
to Fanny and Stella as gay. No, that didn't come
until much later, several decades later, in fact, with a
case involving someone I believe you you know well been
(23:46):
um Oscar Wilde. Yeah, I am Oscar Wilde about him,
but we have never met. I am a big fan. Yes,
legendary writer, poet, author of the Picture of Dorry and Ray.
Oscar Wilde was born in eighteen fifty four. He was
alive while these things were happening, not that much not
(24:08):
that much younger than Fanny and Stella. So he was
also eventually uh sent to trial because his sexual identity
became a problem for the government of the day. Yeah,
and that's the thing. Then we're talking about some of
these um changes that maybe we're happening in the public consciousness.
But as we know, the gears of justice and the
(24:31):
legal system grind pretty slowly so that they certainly were
not caught up to any of these kind of like awakenings. Yeah,
it's we see a similar thing with cultural change and
technological change. The world of legislation takes a while to
catch up even at the best of times. Oscar, much
(24:58):
like Stella, is dressed and what would be considered feminine
attire for much of his early life because his mother
had expected and wished for a girl. Ben, how would
you describe the way he dressed later in life when
he was a much more known figure. He certainly didn't dress.
He dressed in men's clothing, but not the typical kind
of men's clothes that the gentry would wear. He had
(25:19):
expensive taste you know what I mean. He was going
for sophisticated fabrics, have very particular concerns about dress. He
liked what we would call the good life, you know,
And unfortunately he had to end up in court attempting
to defend his own sexual identity. The the first case,
(25:40):
actually the first trial, occurs when he sues someone for libel. Right,
that's right. He sued a gentleman whose name escaves me
at the moment, who actually left his personal calling card
for Wild. So I guess I'm imagining a front desk
situation at a gentleman's club called the Albmeire, and on
(26:00):
it um he accused him of being a quote sodomite. Right,
and Wild received some mixed advice or conflicting advice from
his friends and then from some other people, and they
some people said, a lot of them said just let
it go, don't worry about that guy. And then Uh,
(26:22):
he decided that he would initiate a private prosecution for
libel since the note amounted to a public accusation that
Wild he committed what was considered a crime. So this guy, uh,
the Marquis Queensberry is arrested and the charge of criminal
(26:43):
libel at the time carries a potential two years in prison.
But here's the thing. Under the Libel Act of eighteen
forty three, Queensberry could have avoided this prison sentence if
he demonstrated that what he said was true. That's right.
Wild kind of put himself in the cross, is there,
didn't He He did, and against again against the advice
(27:05):
of his friends. And it also exposed his private life
to the public and people started to learn details about
the people that he associated with, right, the people that
he had romantic relationships with, a team of private detectives
started diving into what would you call like the Victorian underground, Yeah, exactly,
(27:31):
which was which was absolutely And by the way, at
this point we're in early Edwardian times. Yeah that's true.
That's true. And the press and the public is in
the state of almost rapid hysteria by the time the
trial opens in April, and the problem was Wild started
to know this wasn't going to go his way, so
(27:52):
he dropped the prosecution. Queensberry was found not guilty and
the court said that the accusation was true in substance
and in fact. And this this ruling also left Wild
on the financial hook for the legal cost of the
(28:14):
person who had insulted him, and then and made him
go bankrupt, and and and we we should say that
the reason the Marquess of Queensbury had such a problem
with Wild is because he purportedly Wild had had a
relationship with his son, Lord Alfred. But it wasn't this
trial that that did Wild in the way that we
know he ultimately got done, right, Yeah, exactly. There was
(28:38):
a another trial that occurred so after after Fanny and
Stella's famous trial, fast forward a few years and we
arrive at something called the Criminal Law Amendment Act of
eighteen eighty five that said any sort of same sex
(28:58):
act of any type was against the law. And Wild
after he had left this, you know, he had left
this other trial, right, this libel trial dropped the prosecution.
There was a warrant for his arrest put out on
the charges of sodomy and gross indecency, and people gave
(29:18):
him conflicting advice. Again. Some people said, go to Dover
and hop on a boat for France as soon as
you canuriously. And then his mom said, no, stay and
fight this. And Wild was arrested on April six, and
then he the events moved quickly. He was convicted along
(29:39):
with Alfred Taylor on and sentenced to two years hard labor.
But what is what is that? Yeah, it's weird. You
would think it would be something functional like what we
think of today where they have inmates like stuff. But
in those days, it was like these bizarre menial tasks
of like unraveling rope for hours and hours at a time.
(30:02):
Things like that, just like psychological torture. Really strange, and
he was incarcerated from May to eighteen nine seven or
eighteenth of May eighteen ninety seven. As soon as he
was a free man, he sailed immediately for France. He
never returned to the UK, and they lost one of
the greatest literary minds of that generation. And I just
(30:24):
want to mention that unraveling or apparently is kind of
functional because it's old rope and you on ravel it
so that you can recycle it, I guess to make rope.
And they would also make like coking compound, you know,
for like construction. Okay, so it's when I first read it,
I thought it was just some sort of bizarre, tedious
task to make them go insane. So it's not like
the thing that you hear about in the military, where
(30:45):
someone makes you dig a hole and then fill it
back in and dig it again. Yeah, Or listen to
like Black Sabbath with headphones on at like insane volume.
I thought you were about to say it. Or listen
to podcasts. Yeah, that can be tough to um, but
hopefully this one wasn't tough. And I know we went
a little farther into the Oscar wild thing. It wasn't
really the main topic of this episode, but it's a
really important full circle. And he did, in fact end
(31:08):
up getting incarcerated. And when he was incarcerated, he has
this amazing quote that I think is so prescient. It's
really really important. Um, the idea of the love dare
not speak its name. And I think we should maybe
end and end on this, and he refers to this
as being in this century misunderstood, so much misunderstood that
it may be described as the love that dare not
(31:29):
speak its name. And on account of that, I'm placed
where I am now. It is beautiful, it is fine.
It is the noblest form of affection. There is nothing
unnatural about it. It is intellectual, and it repeatedly exists
between an elder and a younger man, when the elder
man has intellect and the younger man has all the joy, hope,
and glamor of life before him. That it should be
so the world does not understand, the world mocks at
(31:52):
it and sometimes puts one in the pillory for it.
And what he's doing is basically just describing any kind
of sames. I mean, he's talking about this intellectual bond
between an older and a younger man, but I think
what he's really describing as any kind of same sex
attraction or affection. Yes, well said, Well said Noel and
Oscar Wilde. Uh, this guy's work is just rife with
(32:15):
these amazing quotes. You know. One of my favorites was
always be yourself everyone else has already taken. It's pretty good.
That's pretty good. Hey, and that really applies to h
Fannie and Stella. Yeah yeah, absolutely, Hey we got there.
We didn't. Uh. So we want to thank you all
so much for tuning in. Of course, thanks to our
super producer Casey Pegram, thanks to Eve's Jeff Cote, who
(32:38):
helped us with the research for this episode. I thought
this one was was pretty wonderful. Um, you know, and
what happened with Oscar Wild that he he didn't die
in prison, did he? No, he did not die in prison.
Good because that would have been a bummer. I I'm
I'm laughing just because he went out like he's just
such a cool dude. Okay. So he died bedridden in
(32:59):
November of nineteen hundred, specifically novem and apparently the whole
time he was there he was complaining about the way
that like the room was decorated, and that's why reputedly
his very last words, the one that most people attribute
to him is this wallpaper is terrible. One of us
(33:21):
will have to go. And then he passed away. I
hope that's real. I hope it is too. He's got
such style, you know. And ask for Fannie and Stella.
I couldn't find really anything about what happened to them
at the end of their lives because you've been no, no,
I got it got a little bit murky. But you
can understand how they would want to retire from public life.
(33:41):
But what a what a like? That's like the trial
of the century. So we can only hope that they
were able to find some privacy and some dignity that
the press apparently could not afford them at the times,
right and we we we had it in some more stuff,
mid thank you. Let's let's get to it right right, yes, yes.
Whereas Find us on Instagram, find us on Twitter, find
(34:03):
us on Facebook, hang out with us on our community page,
Ridiculous Historians, where you can meet your fellow audience members.
And thanks to Alex Williams for composing our theme, and
most importantly to you for tuning in to another episode
of Ridiculous History.
Yeah. We're opening today's episode with an excerpt from a
letter written on November around probably eight sixty nine. My
(00:33):
dearest Arthur, how very kind of you to think of
me on my birthday. I had no idea that you
would do, so it was very good of you to write,
and I am really very grateful for it. I require
no remembrances of my sister's husband, as the many kindnesses
he has bestowed upon me will make me remember him
for many a year, and the birthday present he is
(00:53):
so kind as to promise me, will only be one
addition to the heap of little favors I already treasure
up and we'll cut it there and go to the
signature and says, believe me, your affectionate sister in law,
Fanny Winnifred Park and uh, Fanny Winnifred Park in this
letter is writing to a fellow named Lord Arthur Clinton.
(01:14):
That's right, we'll get to you. Okay, we'll circle back
to this part of the story. Welcome to the Ridiculous history. Yeah,
oh yeah, yeah, yeah, who are you? Okay? And I'm Ben.
You are still Ben, yes, And that's what they call me,
uh in this part of the world. And we are
of course joined as always with our super producer, Casey Pegram.
What do they call you elsewhere in the world, Ben,
(01:35):
And do you have a knighthood that we don't know about?
Are you a sir or a lord? I don't know
if it is something you could pronounce, not just you specifically,
I mean the human tongue. Yeah, got it. It's kind
of weird, but you know how it is. You get
in situations, you travel, Yeah, whichy stuff happens? Yeah, you
make deals whatever. Boy, we got off the we got
(01:56):
off the rails really quickly on this wal shaking my
shaking his head. Okay, So the Fanny in question who
is writing to Lord Clinton is someone known as Mrs
Fanny Graham like Graham Cracker, right, And the sister she
(02:16):
is referring to is someone named Ms. Stella Bolton or
occasionally she will sign things as Stella Clinton. That's right.
And they referred to each other constantly as sisters. Um.
But in fact, these two quite theatrical individuals were in
fact their Christian names were Ernest Bolton and William Park,
(02:37):
and they were in fact men who were widely known
in the London theater community UM as being very successful
cross dressers. And I just want to point out right
up front, yeah, I thought that term was antiquated. I
wasn't sure if that was like the okay thing to say,
but I did look it up on the Gay and
Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation website which has a media section,
(02:58):
and cross dresser is there for term does not imply
um that either individual is gay, but it's just specifically
referring to someone of a gender that likes to dress
like a member of another gender. And that was the
case with Fannie and Stella Rights. So. Stella, also known
(03:18):
as Ernest, was born in eighteen forty seven, the child
of a stock broker, and Park was born in eighteen
forty six, the child of a barrister, so a legal official.
That's right. And Stella's mother encouraged him from an early
age to kind of follow that impulse to wear clothing
(03:43):
of of the the opposite sex, which was kind of
common in Victorian era, or not less uncommon than it
is now. That's right, because women, for a long time
we're not allowed to act in the theater, so parts,
female parts were played by men and drag, right, and
this this was an old tradition, and these two people
(04:06):
were talented actors. Bolton in particular was known for having
a wonderful soprano voice, and they both regularly played female
parts in legitimate theaters and then also at this time,
some theatrical productions would go to uh country house private
homes for private event of like let's say, um, philanthropists
(04:28):
of the arts. They would have a salon at that
house and like host some sort of event where there
would be a play put on and a collection of
various wealthy individuals from the community would go there and
check it out, like Lord raving Ham Poutin on the Ritz,
Lord Pilkington of Ebbsworth. Yeah, Lord Webby Toes hand Time
(04:50):
the of the of the old Northern English hand time dynasty. No,
but we are The point is true and and it's
important thing to to mentioned. They were playing these female
parts in theatrical productions, but they were also uh wearing
clothing that Victorian society said should only be worn by
(05:13):
women off stage. Yeah, like in public, like walking around
town and um, just just to paint your picture here.
They were not necessarily professional actors. It was something they
like to do in their free time. But in their
day jobs, their day lives. Earnest Um who was twenty two,
and Frederick who was twenty three, just a year old.
That's right. Frederick was a law student, and I believe
(05:34):
Ernest was a clerk um at a law firm. Um
and I think he ended up working at a bank
as well at some point. And let's let's examine their
lives a little in a little more details. So these
are famous friends. They referred to each other as sisters.
They have this really strong bond and you know, they're
in their early twenties. What a time to be alive, right,
(05:57):
glory days. They also do not shy away from public
attention or controversy the dresses of the time. For anybody's
interested in the history of fashion, we'd also like to
recommend our Pure podcast Dressed available now wherever you find
your favorite shows. But their clothing that they would wear,
(06:18):
it was incredibly complicated, at least to me, unlike a
slacks and address shirt guy. But it's important to note
that they also dressed as what would stereotypically be considered
men two, and they would stroll back and forth what's
called the derby. This is from a great article on
(06:39):
Indiana dot e d you off the pedestal. Uh. They
would attract attention because they would wearing male dress, but
they would also wear makeup, which was normally associated with
women at the time. That's right. There were several accounts
of folks who knew them around town who said that
they thought that they were too gay women wearing men's clothing.
(07:03):
And there were accounts of folks who when when seeing
them wearing women's clothing, thought they were two gay men
wearing women's clothing. So they like, the gender identity is
extra kind of muddled up here in in a really
interesting way. The thing about it is to theaters, in
particular in London were kind of a hotbed for this
sort of underground gay world was certainly not accepted um
(07:27):
in the mainstream. These theaters would be away for folks
in this scene to connect with one another obviously before
you know Facebook and tender and scruff and things like that.
They had to have away and also to kind of
keep it secret. Yeah, there was another thing that occurred
called molly house. Do you hear about this? So? A
(07:49):
molly house was a term that was used in the
eighteenth and nineteenth century to describe a meeting place. Uh,
this kind of meeting place, particularly in England, and they
were generally taverns, bars essentially coffee houses or sometimes private rooms.
And the thing about it is, at this time any
(08:10):
kind of same sex activity was considered illegal and remained
a capital offense until the eighteen sixties, capital offense meaning
the death penalty, and sodomy, the act of sodomy carried
that sentence, sodomy being a pretty loaded term, absolutely, and
(08:31):
in this context that word refers to a particular type
of penetrative sex act. Yes, that is, that is correct.
And it's a very important point that we're making here
because this need for secrecy was not some kind of like,
oh fun marketing thing like those fake speakeasy bars that
are so common in the US these days. This was
(08:53):
necessary to protect these people's lives. And it just goes
to show how bold Fannie and spell a word in
kind of flouting this and just you know, doing their
thing and going to these very public places, wearing these
outfits and flirting with very powerful men. Um. In fact,
the letter man that you read at the very top
(09:15):
of the show was written to one of these powerful
men who plays a very important part in this story. Yes, yes,
we should set him up before we dive in. Good call.
Lord Arthur Pelham Clinton Uh as an English aristocrat born
in eighteen forty and he was, you know, creme de
la creme of society at the time he went to Eton.
(09:38):
He was in the Royal Navy, He was in the
Crimean War. He was in Parliament for three years. He
was in parliament, he had a personal connection with the
Prime Minister, who was the godson of William Gladstone. This
guy had what we call the juice. He had connects. Yeah, absolutely,
And he had a relationship in eighteen seventy with Stella
(10:04):
or Ernest Bolton. And at the time he was technically
considered a naval officer, but he was retired and he
was formerly at one time he had been a man
of great wealth and means. But a few years before
eighteen seventy he had to declare bankruptcy to the tune
(10:25):
of like but seventy thousand pounds back then, so a
little bit of inflation calculation, casey, I don't know if
we have a sound cue for that. That amounts almost
six million pounds today. So he was deep. He had
a lot of problems, but he had found love with
(10:48):
Stella or Ernest Bolton. And we should take this time
to mention the fact that Stella, between Stella and Fanny,
was considered the more feminine looking one. And if you
see pictures of them, of which there is one with
Lord Arthur and both of them, um, Stella is as
much more effeminine features. And Fanny doesn't even really look
like a female in this picture, looks wearing kind of
(11:10):
a sweater and has more of a cropped haircut. Uh.
And it's very interesting and mentioned in several of these
articles we've been looking at. One in particular on the
Guardian mentions the fact that when you look at pictures
of the two of them and you see Fanny, you
might wonder, by today's standards, how people may have been
confused about the gender of this person. Uh see, yeah,
(11:31):
that's uh. That's a great article by Katherine Hughes Fanny
and Stella, The young Men who Shocked Victorian England. It's
a review of a book by Neil McKenna, who does
some great research here. I think we've we've set this
scene right there, pushing these social boundaries in a way
that probably has several of their friends and and uh
(11:51):
loved one saying be careful watch out well we should
also just one last thing is that Stella presented herself
as the wife of Lord Love, Lord Clinton, Lord Clinton.
And that's yeah, and that's why in the excerpt of
the letter we read from Fanny, that's why you hear
them say anything sister in law, sister in laws, right,
(12:13):
and uh, they took this relationship very seriously. It wasn't
just like some in joke. And when you read these letters,
it's crazy, especially some of the short the shorter ones,
kind of dicey ones where like they're kind of like
feuding a little bit. Yeah, it's like, hey, don't take
what Stella said personally. She was drinking and yeah. Or
(12:33):
there's one where where Stella's saying to Lord Clinton, how
dare you be so rude to me? And you know
it's very like, you know, terst kind of lovers spat
kind of stuff. Um, So we have set the scene, Ben,
and now the year is eighteen sixty nine, Yes, the
years eighteen sixty nine. You see, it wasn't just civilians
taking notice of the adventures of Fanny and Stella around town. No,
(12:57):
the local law enforcement notice as well, and they started
following the pair, monitoring their movements for like a year. Yeah,
an intensive year. Was their real crime that they could
have been addressing, Yeah, absolutely did. London was a very
(13:18):
dangerous place in those days, and so they followed them
for a year. And let's fast forward to a Thursday
on April That's right. The pair is attending a performance
at the Strand Theater in London with a mutual friend
(13:41):
of theirs, right, Hugh Alexander Mundel. And as per usual
when they're going out of a night to the theater,
they are dressed to the nines, wearing evening frocks with
all of the Coutremont gloves, bodice is everything that would
go along with it, lace that, Yeah, the whole line.
And um, they actually have a private box. They're the
(14:06):
detective who was following them as saw them meet to
other people. But as they were leaving, as you said,
no police superintendent and a police sergeant had joined with
the detective while the group was watching the show, and
they arrested Bolton Park and this other person who Alexander Mundel,
(14:28):
as they attempted to leave, the others escaped. The three
arrested individuals were then subjected to a humiliating battery of examinations. Yeah,
that's a perfect way to say, Yeah, to establish whether
they had in fact had that, like, had experienced that
(14:48):
sexual act right that they were they were specifically looking for.
And then they were brought to the magistrate at the
Bow Street Magistrates Court the next day and they were
not allowed to change, They were not given the option
to change into different clothing. They were just kept overnight
and then hauled out, which to me seems like another
(15:11):
purposeful act of humiliation. Oh absolutely. I mean they were
forced to stay in the jail cells wearing their wigs
and everything. And there's a great quote in this review
of the Neil McKenna book from Katherine Hughes that describes
the scene as such, after a night in the cells,
with wigs slipping and stubble poking through, it was pretty
clear to the pact and panting courtroom that the two
(15:33):
tarts were actually young men. Very strange way of putting in.
I feel like this was old who would write like that?
Why would they call them tarts? That seems really offensive.
It's still British term that there is, but tart is
an archaic term. That's fair, Okay, I'll go on their names.
According to the charge sheet, where Ernest Bolton and Frederick
Park to their friends, they were Stella and Fanny, and
(15:53):
in the newspapers they now became front page fixtures known
as the funny he she ladies tremendously offensive. This is
when it officially becomes what's called the Bolton and Park scandal.
So at this time there is a minor law that
they could be considered breaking, which is called personation of
(16:15):
a woman. Yeah, so I think it was a misdemeanor. Yeah,
it's like it's it's a lower charge. It's definitely not
a capital offense. And what the court system is trying
to do in the preceding legal arguments here is they're
trying to prove not that these people were quote unquote
personating a woman, but that they were engaged in unlawful
(16:38):
sexual relations. Yeah, that's right. I mean, it seems to
me like they were trying very desperately to make an
example of the two um in a in a really
horrific way that I believe stretched up to someone in
the neighborhood of fourteen hearings UM and it became a
total media circus because you know, the public wanted to
(16:58):
get a look at them because they this like, you know,
horribly offensive title. Now with the that was, you know,
took the public's imagination by storm, the funny ladies, So
it became this total ship show of a trial, right,
and the the details of the law under which they
would have been prosecuted, perhaps persecuted is a better word
(17:20):
here required the court to have a witness, someone who
could say, I know and I saw this thing happening
with these two people that I can conclusively identify. The
problem was that despite the terrible media atmosphere of the
(17:42):
time and the national attention focused on it, the prosecution
was unable to find the witness. They were unable to
prove that anything happened. That's right, But you know, one
of the most galling pieces of evidence to the prosecution
has been it was the fact that Stella, while attending
this performance at the Strand Theater, had apparently had the
(18:04):
audacity to use the women's laboratory. That was one of
the huge things they were I think they were already
planning to arrest them, yes that night, absolutely, but yeah,
that was that was one of the things that the
broadsheets the newspapers of the time really latched onto. That's right,
the penny papers. And here is a pretty um interesting
(18:26):
and telling quote from the way this was all kind
of portrayed to the public. There is one peculiar trait
in the evidence that stands out in bold and audacious relief,
and two plainly shows the base and prurient nature which
these misguided youths, for they are but little more, must possess.
We refer to the entrance of Park into the retiring room,
(18:49):
which is set apart for ladies at the Strand Theater,
who had the unblushing impudence to apply to the female
attendant to fasten up the gathers of his skirt, which
he alleged had come unfastened. And the character we had mentioned,
the husband of Stella, also returns to this story in
(19:12):
a tragic way. He is implicated. Yeah, but he is
unable to testify because he had passed away, officially on
paper from scarlet fever. But many um whispers implying that
he he had taken his own life. Yeah, that was
on June, literally the day after he received his subpoena
(19:35):
for the trial. So circumstances strongly point to him taking
his own life. And then at the time there was speculation, however,
that before he had done this, either died of scarlet
fever or committed suicide for the the blow his reputation
would take. Right from being implicated in this, there's pretty
(19:55):
solid speculation that he had used those existing connection to
fake his death. Pretty interesting stuff, Ben, and not to
muddy the waters here, we'll get back to the conclusion
of um Fannie and Stella's story, But there's another bit
of implication that after he supposedly either died or disappeared,
(20:19):
another woman woman identifying as male in dress, impersonated him
and he used his name to defraud other wealthy individuals
of of money. Yeah, Mary Jane Fair, No, that's that's
her given name, and she was claiming to be Lord
(20:42):
Arthur Clinton and to double muddy this or to muddy
it further while while pretending to be Lord Arthur Clinton,
Mary would also sometimes dress as a woman, so dressing
as Clinton, dressing as a woman, arguing that it was
to throw people off the trail. Complicated, Yeah, but so,
(21:09):
but you know, we kind of already spilled the beans
that there's a happy ending to this story and that
they were acquitted or or that the jury did not convict. Yes,
they were finally acquitted. And the problem here is that,
I mean, we could talk about how how they were acquitted.
So the prosecution was not able to prove that there
(21:33):
was any offense committed under the laws of the time.
And they also, despite the personation of a woman misdemeanor charge,
they weren't able to get that to stick either. After
the Lord Chief Justice presiding, a guy named Sir Alexander Cockburn,
summed up the prosecution's case. He said that the prosecution's
(21:56):
case was garbage juice and that the police were acting unprofessionally.
And then the jury took about fifty three minutes to
deliberate they found both individuals not guilty. So imagine the
emotional roller coaster, right, And it's pretty cool because one
account that I read UM says that when that non
(22:19):
guilty verdict was rendered, everyone in the gallery UM exclaimed
with shouts of bravo. So you know, they were well
liked in the community and they were known, and it
seems as though at least the people in the courtroom
they were there to support them. Um, We're kind of
in their corner. Yeah, yeah, and this this leads us
(22:40):
to a larger social context here too. One thing I
really appreciated about Katherine Hughes's article was noting the great
changes in society that we're occurring at the time. Right
in eighteen seventy, the Republican movement was reaching a tipping point,
the work of Charles Arles Darwin was propagating out through
(23:02):
the world. Paris had quote become a commune, and there
was this cultural ecosystem in which this trial occurred. This
finding you had later consequences on the world of English law,
especially when it comes to gender identity. That's right, It's
(23:24):
something we haven't mentioned. But um, at this point they
did not make distinctions of of gay people. It was
more distinctions of acts. So no one would have referred
to Fanny and Stella as gay. No, that didn't come
until much later, several decades later, in fact, with a
case involving someone I believe you you know well been
(23:46):
um Oscar Wilde. Yeah, I am Oscar Wilde about him,
but we have never met. I am a big fan. Yes,
legendary writer, poet, author of the Picture of Dorry and Ray.
Oscar Wilde was born in eighteen fifty four. He was
alive while these things were happening, not that much not
(24:08):
that much younger than Fanny and Stella. So he was
also eventually uh sent to trial because his sexual identity
became a problem for the government of the day. Yeah,
and that's the thing. Then we're talking about some of
these um changes that maybe we're happening in the public consciousness.
But as we know, the gears of justice and the
(24:31):
legal system grind pretty slowly so that they certainly were
not caught up to any of these kind of like awakenings. Yeah,
it's we see a similar thing with cultural change and
technological change. The world of legislation takes a while to
catch up even at the best of times. Oscar, much
(24:58):
like Stella, is dressed and what would be considered feminine
attire for much of his early life because his mother
had expected and wished for a girl. Ben, how would
you describe the way he dressed later in life when
he was a much more known figure. He certainly didn't dress.
He dressed in men's clothing, but not the typical kind
of men's clothes that the gentry would wear. He had
(25:19):
expensive taste you know what I mean. He was going
for sophisticated fabrics, have very particular concerns about dress. He
liked what we would call the good life, you know,
And unfortunately he had to end up in court attempting
to defend his own sexual identity. The the first case,
(25:40):
actually the first trial, occurs when he sues someone for libel. Right,
that's right. He sued a gentleman whose name escaves me
at the moment, who actually left his personal calling card
for Wild. So I guess I'm imagining a front desk
situation at a gentleman's club called the Albmeire, and on
(26:00):
it um he accused him of being a quote sodomite. Right,
and Wild received some mixed advice or conflicting advice from
his friends and then from some other people, and they
some people said, a lot of them said just let
it go, don't worry about that guy. And then Uh,
(26:22):
he decided that he would initiate a private prosecution for
libel since the note amounted to a public accusation that
Wild he committed what was considered a crime. So this guy, uh,
the Marquis Queensberry is arrested and the charge of criminal
(26:43):
libel at the time carries a potential two years in prison.
But here's the thing. Under the Libel Act of eighteen
forty three, Queensberry could have avoided this prison sentence if
he demonstrated that what he said was true. That's right.
Wild kind of put himself in the cross, is there,
didn't He He did, and against again against the advice
(27:05):
of his friends. And it also exposed his private life
to the public and people started to learn details about
the people that he associated with, right, the people that
he had romantic relationships with, a team of private detectives
started diving into what would you call like the Victorian underground, Yeah, exactly,
(27:31):
which was which was absolutely And by the way, at
this point we're in early Edwardian times. Yeah that's true.
That's true. And the press and the public is in
the state of almost rapid hysteria by the time the
trial opens in April, and the problem was Wild started
to know this wasn't going to go his way, so
(27:52):
he dropped the prosecution. Queensberry was found not guilty and
the court said that the accusation was true in substance
and in fact. And this this ruling also left Wild
on the financial hook for the legal cost of the
(28:14):
person who had insulted him, and then and made him
go bankrupt, and and and we we should say that
the reason the Marquess of Queensbury had such a problem
with Wild is because he purportedly Wild had had a
relationship with his son, Lord Alfred. But it wasn't this
trial that that did Wild in the way that we
know he ultimately got done, right, Yeah, exactly. There was
(28:38):
a another trial that occurred so after after Fanny and
Stella's famous trial, fast forward a few years and we
arrive at something called the Criminal Law Amendment Act of
eighteen eighty five that said any sort of same sex
(28:58):
act of any type was against the law. And Wild
after he had left this, you know, he had left
this other trial, right, this libel trial dropped the prosecution.
There was a warrant for his arrest put out on
the charges of sodomy and gross indecency, and people gave
(29:18):
him conflicting advice. Again. Some people said, go to Dover
and hop on a boat for France as soon as
you canuriously. And then his mom said, no, stay and
fight this. And Wild was arrested on April six, and
then he the events moved quickly. He was convicted along
(29:39):
with Alfred Taylor on and sentenced to two years hard labor.
But what is what is that? Yeah, it's weird. You
would think it would be something functional like what we
think of today where they have inmates like stuff. But
in those days, it was like these bizarre menial tasks
of like unraveling rope for hours and hours at a time.
(30:02):
Things like that, just like psychological torture. Really strange, and
he was incarcerated from May to eighteen nine seven or
eighteenth of May eighteen ninety seven. As soon as he
was a free man, he sailed immediately for France. He
never returned to the UK, and they lost one of
the greatest literary minds of that generation. And I just
(30:24):
want to mention that unraveling or apparently is kind of
functional because it's old rope and you on ravel it
so that you can recycle it, I guess to make rope.
And they would also make like coking compound, you know,
for like construction. Okay, so it's when I first read it,
I thought it was just some sort of bizarre, tedious
task to make them go insane. So it's not like
the thing that you hear about in the military, where
(30:45):
someone makes you dig a hole and then fill it
back in and dig it again. Yeah, Or listen to
like Black Sabbath with headphones on at like insane volume.
I thought you were about to say it. Or listen
to podcasts. Yeah, that can be tough to um, but
hopefully this one wasn't tough. And I know we went
a little farther into the Oscar wild thing. It wasn't
really the main topic of this episode, but it's a
really important full circle. And he did, in fact end
(31:08):
up getting incarcerated. And when he was incarcerated, he has
this amazing quote that I think is so prescient. It's
really really important. Um, the idea of the love dare
not speak its name. And I think we should maybe
end and end on this, and he refers to this
as being in this century misunderstood, so much misunderstood that
it may be described as the love that dare not
(31:29):
speak its name. And on account of that, I'm placed
where I am now. It is beautiful, it is fine.
It is the noblest form of affection. There is nothing
unnatural about it. It is intellectual, and it repeatedly exists
between an elder and a younger man, when the elder
man has intellect and the younger man has all the joy, hope,
and glamor of life before him. That it should be
so the world does not understand, the world mocks at
(31:52):
it and sometimes puts one in the pillory for it.
And what he's doing is basically just describing any kind
of sames. I mean, he's talking about this intellectual bond
between an older and a younger man, but I think
what he's really describing as any kind of same sex
attraction or affection. Yes, well said, Well said Noel and
Oscar Wilde. Uh, this guy's work is just rife with
(32:15):
these amazing quotes. You know. One of my favorites was
always be yourself everyone else has already taken. It's pretty good.
That's pretty good. Hey, and that really applies to h
Fannie and Stella. Yeah yeah, absolutely, Hey we got there.
We didn't. Uh. So we want to thank you all
so much for tuning in. Of course, thanks to our
super producer Casey Pegram, thanks to Eve's Jeff Cote, who
(32:38):
helped us with the research for this episode. I thought
this one was was pretty wonderful. Um, you know, and
what happened with Oscar Wild that he he didn't die
in prison, did he? No, he did not die in prison.
Good because that would have been a bummer. I I'm
I'm laughing just because he went out like he's just
such a cool dude. Okay. So he died bedridden in
(32:59):
November of nineteen hundred, specifically novem and apparently the whole
time he was there he was complaining about the way
that like the room was decorated, and that's why reputedly
his very last words, the one that most people attribute
to him is this wallpaper is terrible. One of us
(33:21):
will have to go. And then he passed away. I
hope that's real. I hope it is too. He's got
such style, you know. And ask for Fannie and Stella.
I couldn't find really anything about what happened to them
at the end of their lives because you've been no, no,
I got it got a little bit murky. But you
can understand how they would want to retire from public life.
(33:41):
But what a what a like? That's like the trial
of the century. So we can only hope that they
were able to find some privacy and some dignity that
the press apparently could not afford them at the times,
right and we we we had it in some more stuff,
mid thank you. Let's let's get to it right right, yes, yes.
Whereas Find us on Instagram, find us on Twitter, find
(34:03):
us on Facebook, hang out with us on our community page,
Ridiculous Historians, where you can meet your fellow audience members.
And thanks to Alex Williams for composing our theme, and
most importantly to you for tuning in to another episode
of Ridiculous History.
Ridiculous History News
Hosts And Creators
Ben Bowlin
Noel Brown
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