July 22, 2025 • 33 mins
Ben here. I know, I know: it's confusing that we split our First Ladies sequel episode into two separate episodes. The title is literally ridiculous. However, as you'll hear, we delved deep into a bit of Presidential history that touches on so many things -- so many, in fact, that we had to dedicate an entire show to Buchanan and his fascinating First Lady/niece, Harriet Lane.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to
(00:27):
the show, fellow Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always so
much for tuning in. Let's hear it for our returning
super producer, Max the Tattered mad Man Williams.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Welcome Mischief, Welcome to Well.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
I mean we were chatting and stuff. I mean surprised
to everyone you know we are. We are actually real
life friends. The three of us.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
I was Canada, the four of us, but uh, Vancouver.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
There was a Canada was Canada, right, Yeah, I was
in Portland and I was in Canada.
Speaker 4 (01:00):
Based in Canada.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
Yeah, it's basically funny thing Portland, Oregon. It's the only
place in this world where you say Vancouver and they
think of a different place than Vancouver.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Exactly what it's like.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
There's like a suburb basically of it. There's a city
cross the river in Washington called Vancouver. But it was great.
Speaker 5 (01:16):
It was actually kind of hot. But the thing about
it is hot coover by about what they call it.
They call it hot Couver. No call it that hot
Coouver day.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
It starts schooling off and it's like, wow, okay.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
This is different. This is Atlanta where it's like eighty
plus degree that.
Speaker 4 (01:32):
Like Midnight's bewest interesting story, maybe not interesting but appropriate.
My kid and their mom are leaving for Portland today,
so I might hit you up offline for some res.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
Oh yeah, there's a great uh. I think it's still around.
Pinball Museum is what it's called, but it's basically arcade.
It's like it's like twenty dollars play all day. But yeah,
as you mentioned, I had, I got two tattoos done,
my first two, and of course I'm already playing the third, fourth, fifth,
and sixth already.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
The same brother, I'm getting inky, I've got the bug.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
It's a lot of fout the bug too. But uh
no I mentioned this offline. But when I was talking
to Ben earlier today I mentioned him. He was just
said he was going to be around, you know, some
more French them things I said, watch up for. The
mimes are like you know, yeah, but h have to
break them first, and once you break them, you can
actually do real damage.
Speaker 4 (02:22):
Actually, their attacks are not that hard to dodge once
you get the hang of them, because they only do
like I think too. Sorry, we're talking about Claire Scarrett,
not actual French mimes.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
But they're scary too.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
Expedition thirty three and uh, speaking of the opposite of mimes,
this is an audio podcast, so we'll tell you who
we are. I am Ben Bullen. You have heard a
returning super producer, mister Max Williams, and our ever present,
ever awesome co host, one and only, mister Nole Brown.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
I'm nothing if not ever present. Thank you, Ben. I
appreciate that.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
It's good you try to figure out how to say
ever present.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
Well, English it's a funny language. It's something. This is
a weird segue. Nol. English is one of those languages
that is absolutely riddled with legacy words and syntax, even
when they don't make the most sense. And we could
argue in part two of First Ladies, Who Weren't that
the position of first lady quote unquote however described is
(03:22):
itself kind of like a legacy thing of monarchy. It
is an official position, but it's it's a thing that
always assumes the president of the United States will have
something like a spouse, and as our research associate Jeff
(03:46):
factor G showed us in our first episode here, that's
not always the case. Sometimes history has put some square
pegs into the round hole of tradition. That's how it's
dirty going on, I know for sure.
Speaker 4 (04:00):
And also, I mean, I just think to find the
idea of the president's being the first anything is fascinating
because it sort of implies he's number one, he's the
best one we got, and everything associated with him is
also the first whatever that thing. Remember the movie First Kid, Yes,
like a Nickelodeon type kid's movie from the nineties.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
It wasn't Nickelodeon, but it was of that ilk. That's right.
Speaker 4 (04:23):
But today we are indeed doing continuation of the first
part of the First Ladies who Weren't Wives. This part
includes the bachelors, the reluctant wives who passed on their duties,
and much much more. Jeff points out at the top,
and we'd like to join him in addressing that this
episode contains some discussion of some arguable perspectives of the
(04:46):
first gay president as well as the first gay first Lady.
I think that one is a little more substantiated the
first Lady one.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
Yeah, yeah, let's let's dive into this. That's that's an
excellent note for us to begin with. And folks, let's
also note this may be a two part series two
Part Part two. Yeah, yeah, just like when we did
idiomatic for the People or historical flex as, I think,
all right, let's start with let's get to the chicken
(05:15):
right away. Let's start with the one that is going
to be interesting to a lot of history buffs in
the audience, especially fellow presidential history buffs like ourselves. The
lifelong Yeah, the lifelong presidential bachelor and his first lady.
All right, when, Yeah, this one is as much about
(05:38):
the popularity of Harriet Lane, who will meet in a moment,
as much as it is about the fact that she
was only the first lady because she was not the
spouse of President James Buchanan, but she was the niece
of Buchanan and historians, just to get the headline out here, folks,
(05:58):
historians often will cite James Buchanan as quote, the nation's
most likely first gay president.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (06:07):
That term bachelor that you wish washed around in these
days was often used as a pejorative for being gay,
not in a positive way. It was not something that
we've talked about, but if you threw around the term
lifelong bachelor, that often had a little little bit of
stink on it, depending on who was throwing it around,
and Ben remind me, I believe in our last episode
(06:30):
on first Ladies who Weren't Wives, we also had a
player who was a relative who got that designation after
the fact.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
Yeah, talk about a player Old Andrew, two first Ladies Jackson.
There's a bit of a sad story there because, as
we recall from our first episode, Andrew Jackson had to
take his DSA on as the first lady because his
(06:59):
actual facts, as Lauren would say, a spouse passed away.
So there was already a niece who became a first
lady in terms of practice.
Speaker 4 (07:08):
Very similar story here, although we also have potential for
what might be considered the first man, but there was
just no space culturally for that to even be part
of the.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
Conversation for a first gentleman.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
Indeed, I like that.
Speaker 4 (07:23):
I definitely think it's important to talk about this historical anomaly,
even though it was something that we mentioned before, very
rare for this sort of passing of the torch to
a relative to become the nature of a first lady.
So this puts it into a much more interesting and
revelatory perspective than their wife died or what have you.
So let's get right into it.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
Yeah, all right, folks, travel back with us. It's the
beginning of eighteen forty four. There's a guy named James Buchanan.
He's a real up and comer in the Hall's political power,
but his presidential aspirations are about to go a raw.
At this point, he has had a bit of a
(08:03):
brew haha with the Washington Daily Globe. It stirred his
political rivals into a big, bubbling gumbo of hater tude. Yeah,
there's Aaron Venable Brown.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
Brown.
Speaker 4 (08:26):
Isn't that a Isn't that an adjective like to describe
someone being like prestigious or like of of note venerable
venerable moving on one of my h one of my
many historical etymological flubs.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
But I it.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
I'm so happy that we began this episode by talking
about how cartoonish the English language is. And perhaps because
I have some familial roots in the hinterlands of Tennessee,
Venable doesn't sound like two of a name for me.
But yeah, this guy, Aaron, he is from Tennessee. He's
especially pissed off. He's soup duped enraged, and he writes
(09:10):
a fake confidential letter to the future. First lady Sarah
Polk and in this quote unquote confidential letter, our but
e venable savages Buchanan and his better half, and he
says the following, mister Buchara looks gloomy and dissatisfied, and
so did his better half until a little private flattery
(09:34):
in a certain newspaper puff which you doubtless noticed, excited
hope that by getting a divorce she got set up
again in the world to some tolerable advantage. Read that
as gay.
Speaker 4 (09:48):
I mean, right, a little bit, isn't there some like
subtweety shade being thrown here?
Speaker 1 (09:53):
Exactly exactly nailed it, because the problem is that James
Buchanan up to now, even an to twenty twenty five,
he is the niians only bachelor president. The problem is
that James Buchanan at this point is our nition's only
bachelor president. So there was no spouse, there was no
(10:13):
female spouse to call his better half. And Brown's letter
heavily implies there was a man who fit the bill.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
It's true.
Speaker 4 (10:22):
Google James Buchanan and you're inevitably going to discover this
assertion that American history declared him to be the first
gay president. And it doesn't take a whole lot of
digging to discover that the popular understanding of Buchanan as
our nation's first gay president comes from his very close
personal relationship, not with God, you may have had that
as well, but with one man in particular, one.
Speaker 6 (10:44):
William Rufus, William Rufus Devain King, the Honorable Venerable William
Rufus Devaine, King of Alabama. The premise raises a lot
of questions what was the real nature of their relationship?
And people love a salacious raising of questions, so I'm
sure that Froth Fear describing was indeed quite bubbling.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
Yes, yeah, and I love that. I love that frauth
analogy there, because we also have to remember that the
three of us, your faithful correspondents here, are of a
generation where when we were growing up, there would be
lifelong same sex partners who described each other as roommates,
which is sad that society forced them into that kind
(11:29):
of semi closet space. Bu Can and King Rufus Deveyn
King shared another essential quality in addition to being on
the same page politically, they were both bachelors, as you said,
lifelong bachelors, never having married. Buchanan attended Dickinson College and
he studied law in Lancaster. His practice did really well
(11:53):
in eighteen nineteen. In fact, if you walked around the
town of Lancaster, you would see that he was considered
the city's most eligible bachelor. Everybody thought, this guy is
an up and comer. He's got the money, he's got
the bazazz, the panache. Who wouldn't want to marry Buchanon.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
Well, that's right.
Speaker 4 (12:15):
At a certain age and a certain walk of life,
eligible gets attached to bachelor and it's a positive thing.
It means you're a real pick, You're a real catch, right,
You're a real smoke show, a real dime. As the
kids say, do they say that or do they say
that in the fifties they may.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
It reminds me that old Jane Austen quote from Pride
and Prejudice, which is, sorry, folks, not my favorite book,
but there's one quote that gets thrown around a lot.
Jane Austen wrote, it is a truth universally acknowledged that
a single man in possession of a good fortune must
be in want of a wife.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
Yeah, a little bit gold digger at gold degree. And
there's being.
Speaker 6 (12:54):
There's some a little bit of subtweety stank on that
one too, if you ask me, they were.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
All about subtweety steak. And I'm going to write down
that phrase because I appreciate it.
Speaker 6 (13:04):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
Buchanan does ultimately become engaged to a young woman named
Anne Colvin. She is of a similar social echelon. She's
twenty three years old. Her dad is a wealthy tycoon
who made his money in iron and I love that
this is the period of history where you can say
someone made their money in just a noun.
Speaker 6 (13:28):
Oh, yeah, for sure, the railroads for example, or just railroads,
if we're just.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
Going with the nown with it.
Speaker 4 (13:32):
I made my money and horse, I made my money
in beach. Yeah, like that's what Ken did of the
Barbie universe. It's also a time where you could say
that someone died from hysterical convulsions.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
Right right, wandering wand.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
Which, unfortunately good yeah, happens with Anne Coleman, who's only
briefly in the story. The official narrative is that Buchanan
was always working and for some reason this caused him
(14:08):
to neglect his betrothed, which caused Anne Coleman herself to
break off the engagement. So she broke up with him,
not the opposite, and immediately died of heartbreak, and immediately,
like shortly thereafter died of to your note, what her
doctor at the time said were hysterical convulsions. And the
(14:29):
rumor mill of Lancaster goes absolutely nuts like it's their
own TMZ. On a local level, people are whispering and
saying that Anne Coleman committed suicidal Well, it.
Speaker 4 (14:41):
Would seem like Buchanan perhaps harbored a little personal guilt
around this, as he did say he entered politics to
distract himself from his great grief.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
He may well have loved this woman.
Speaker 4 (14:53):
I mean, you know, and look, what's the word platonic
love is very very re and there maybe even could
have You know, we also know that in these days,
and honestly well into the future, maybe even into the present,
there would be these arrangements where the woman would very
much know that the man that she was with was
not into women, but they will continue as this facade
(15:17):
with an understanding between.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
Them or vice versa one hundred percent.
Speaker 4 (15:21):
I mean, I'm not gonna lie, not to get too personal,
pretty much, that was the deal with my parents it's
in the opera world. Back in New York City in
the eighties and nineties, it was not the easiest thing
to be an out gay man, and there were a
lot of these marriages.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
Of convenience, right, and sometimes the street name or idiom
you may have heard, folks is the so called lavender
marriage or the beard right right or beard. Sometimes these
could occur because both partners needed cover and were not
sexually into each other. But we're close friends. Uh bu
(15:57):
can'd in, as he said, throws himself to work as
a result of this great grief and while he is
in Washington when he has entered politics for the politics
he and William Rufus Devane King lived together in a
communal boarding house kind of sometimes called a mess, similar
(16:19):
to the military term for a cafeteria. Okay, yeah, and
this was not just a them thing, to be clear.
At first, their boarding house had other Congress members in it,
and most of these were also unmarried men, and a
lot of them were kind of on the younger side
for the time, and this gave their communal home a
(16:42):
street name, the bachelor's Mess, like this is where the
single guys hang out. And there was not any at
this point, there was not any snarky, like subversive subtext
of all these people being gay or something. It was
just these guys are unmarried. So of course if you're
a congressman and you're not hitched, you live here.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
It makes sense, I guess, yeah. And bastards do be messy.
It's true.
Speaker 4 (17:07):
Over time, as other members of the group lost their
seats in Congress, the population of the mess dwindled from
four to three, and then there were two Buchanan and
King Washington. Society started to, you know, take notice and
look a bit of scance at this arrangement.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
Oh my gosh. And they were so vicious in these
social spheres. This is peak cattiness. Right at the galas,
at the balls and the fundraisers. People started calling him
mister Buchanan and his wife. And they would call these people,
they would call this future President and rufus King, things
(17:50):
like aunt fancy and aunt Nancy.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
My aunt fancy. That's an expression.
Speaker 4 (17:56):
Maybe years later, Julia Gardner Tyler, he was the much
younger wife of John Tyler, President, remembered at them as
the Siamese twins, which I guess you could call maybe
a little bit less of an insulting nickname, just.
Speaker 6 (18:11):
The fact that they were close. They were buds. Chang
and Aang Bunker were the famous conjoined twins who were
popular at the time. We've talked about on this podcast.
We have we have Affair.
Speaker 3 (18:24):
Just to jump in here real quick, because we brought
up John Tyler's second wife. I want to just call
back to the John Tyler has a living grandson, which
I haven't checked recently, see if the guy's still around.
But I'm trying to remember how many children he had
with the second wife.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
He was a jack rabbit.
Speaker 3 (18:39):
Yeah, he had fifteen I think total, and I think
he had at least five, maybe seven with the second wife.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
He was in his fifties by this point.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
Yeah, yeah, not as not as virile as Mick Jagger
or Robert de Niro.
Speaker 3 (18:50):
Today, but or John the baby maker right right, curtainly
still getting something, still getting.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
His feather mattress Calisthenics on. Well, yeah, so this is
fascinating because you know, you could say these guys were
just very close, lifelong friends. There are a lot of
people who have close friendships throughout their lives. They cherished
their rapport and their friendship and members of their immediate families,
(19:22):
importantly for the time seem to treat them the same,
you know, like this is my brother from another mother,
or you know, Buchanan, you may as well be my son. Uh,
it's right right. They had secret handshakes, I'm sure, and.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
I love that. I love a secret handshake. Can we do.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
All?
Speaker 2 (19:44):
Right?
Speaker 1 (19:44):
So in Weedland, which is the name for Buchanan's country
estate still near Lancaster, a heavy stoners, if you walk
into his estate at this point, you'll see not just
a portrait of William Rufus King, but you'll also see
a portrait of King's niece Catherine Margaret Ellis. And after
(20:09):
you can't and dies spoiler. In eighteen sixty eight, his
niece that we mentioned at the top, Harriet Lane Johnston.
She corresponds with this niece Ellis about how to get
how to get the correspondence of these men from the
king home in Alabama.
Speaker 4 (20:30):
And I started it was Wheatland, not Weedland, which is
over my brain immediately correct.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
I thought Wheatland was I thought that was some sort
of strain of cannabis.
Speaker 4 (20:39):
Or it could be like there's a dispensary somewhere in
the country called Weedland. Harriet lost both of her parents
by the age of eleven, and Jane's brother, who was
a senator at the time, James Buchanan of Pennsylvania, became
Harriet's legal guardian.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
Yeah, and we're getting a lot of this from some
great Smithsonian articles. Yeah, one by Thomas Balserski, The one
hundred and seventy five year History of Speculating about President
James Buchanan's Bachelorhood. Yeah, I love that word. Setting up
Harriet Lane's origin story. So how did she become the
(21:18):
first Lady for all intents and practices of the Buchanan administration.
It's because of this interaction between King and Buchanan. Like
you were setting up here, She's got a legal guardian
due to childhood tragedy. She goes to a boarding school,
first in Pennsylvania, then later she moves to Virginia and DC.
(21:40):
She lives with her uncle at his Wheatland estate in Lancaster,
and she travels abroad with Buchanan while he is serving
as Minister to Great Britain. This guy, this guy's a
little bit older when he moves into the White House
and a sense to the presidency. He's in his sixties
(22:02):
in eighteen fifty seven, and at this point, again he's
still a lifelong bachelor. Outside of that what engagement, He
is not only never married, but he has also had
no known romantic interaction.
Speaker 2 (22:19):
Trade with women. Yes, no, no, lady, no.
Speaker 6 (22:21):
Paragars, no things, flings, dalliance's perhaps no none of that.
So la relationship that's there, you go, situationships even so, yeah,
so Lane, is that what you said, Ben, I'm sorry, situationship.
We were on the same page. So Laine, at this point,
still quite a young woman, joins him in his role
(22:44):
at the White House.
Speaker 4 (22:45):
She's been his kind of constant companion at this point
in eighteen fifty seven.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
She brings this youthful vigor to the White House.
Speaker 4 (22:54):
Is a really great entertainer, which, as we know, is
a role that often falls to first ladies, and she
really becomes kind of a people's princess type figure, you know,
like very princess Diana. Yep, she's a celebrity for intents
and purposes, christening ships, signing autographs, doing charity banquets and fundraisers.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
She's a fashion plate. She's doing Kardashian level celebrity.
Speaker 6 (23:24):
Endorsement and send all the latest trends by the designers
of notes and things like that.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
She would have had millions of followers if Instagram were
a thing at this point. She also oversees the refurbishment
of the famous Blue Room at the White House. She
is the lead hostess on several important visits from Everything
you could imagine, Big Deal European Folks VIPs from Japan
(23:52):
in May of eighteen sixty. She also coordinates a visit
from Albert Edward, the Prince of Wales and look before
Jackie odasas Kennedy, few first ladies captured public imagination like
Harriet Lane.
Speaker 4 (24:12):
Yeah, and Jackie OH loomed so large that I personally
did not know about the legacy of Harriet Lane, because
we really do think of Jackie O as being that quintessential,
you know, first lady's first lady kind of And I
think that's probably in no small part due to this
speculation about the president's bachelorhood. Did not seem to stick
(24:32):
in the mind of history in the same way that
Jackie O did. But she was very much on the
same playing field that Jackie O would occupy, capturing the
public imagination, et cetera.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
Yeah, the important distinction here is that prior to Harriet Lane,
and maybe let's bracket Martha Washington between Martha Washington and
Harriet Lane. First ladies were very well known in the
up her crust of society, like in the DC Northeast area.
(25:05):
But if you ask someone in Oklahoma or California, they
probably wouldn't know much about this person. They might not
care as much. This changed with Harriet Lane because it
became cool to follow her, so women across the country
would copy the dresses and the gowns she was wearing,
(25:25):
like her inauguration gown.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
People.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
Yeah, people named their kids after her.
Speaker 6 (25:30):
Dude.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
They started writing her into popular songs and.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
She was beloved. She was beloved.
Speaker 1 (25:39):
Yeah, it's very Camelot Jackie O's stuff. And during this
context of history, the United States is teetering ever closer
to the brink of civil war. And this they called
her the Democratic Queen because the US has always eternally
struggled with the difference between meritocracy, democracy, and monarchy.
Speaker 2 (26:01):
Right for sure.
Speaker 4 (26:03):
Of course, she also was very active in philanthropic pursuits,
and she even took on the cause of Native peoples
of First First Nation peoples in improving conditions on these reservations,
which we know were not great.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
Absolutely, And I would say, based on the conversations I've
had with another show of ours wrongful conviction, I would
say those terrible conditions also continue in the modern day
with indigenous American populations. But she was trying to trying
to improve conditions, making a good faith effort. Her uncle
(26:43):
leaves office in eighteen sixty one, but she's such a
successful social personality that she continues her philanthropy. She helps
found a children's clinic at the Johns Hopkins Hospital. So
thank you, miss Lane. That's fantastic. And while we're extolling
her virtues, let us also mention that she was a
(27:05):
huge fan of the arts, and she acquired so many
pieces of pretty notable work, and she had always plan
not to hoard it or give it to her family
when she finally passed, but she always wanted it to
be for the American people and patron Yeah, and when
(27:27):
she passes away in nineteen oh three, she gives it
all to uncle Sam And the Smithsonian is so happy
about this that one of their officials calls her the
first Lady of the National Collection of Fine Arts.
Speaker 6 (27:41):
You got to start somewhere. She really kicked off that
collection in a very big way.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
It's true.
Speaker 4 (27:45):
And as we mentioned, she was hugely generous to Johns Hopkins,
the famous hospital in Baltimore, leaving an endowment to children's clinics,
and it became an incredibly important pediatric facility when that
was as much of a thing as it is today
in terms of like specialty facilities designated for children's healthcare
(28:06):
and for children dealing with very difficult conditions.
Speaker 6 (28:10):
M hm.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
And before we move on, Max, you hit us up
in the chat as a fellow presidential history buff. We're
interested to see what tangent you wanted to bring us
with Buchanan.
Speaker 3 (28:22):
Yeah, it's just, you know, it's two things tangentially related
to the story. Well, because one thing is there's a
lot of the more clickbait you want about the first
gay presidents. People have this theory that Lincoln was in
fact gay, and a lot of times what you'll read
when stuff like that people like, oh, no, Buchanan was gay,
and obviously there's no proof on all this. I think,
you know, not to get too woke on my soapbox,
(28:43):
where I think it's more just like the lines are
more blurred than people may want to accept they are.
But I think the big reason why everyone likes to
talk about Buchanan in this way is because it's better
than talking about Buchanan in any other way, because he
is widely considered the first president of good dimension.
Speaker 1 (29:03):
He's one of the worst three. He's one of the
worst three.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
How is he such an f up?
Speaker 3 (29:08):
She watched the country start the Civil War and did nothing?
He is amongst it's Andrew Johnson, James Buchanan, and Peer
and Peers are considered the three works were finding. Peers
is right before him, and Johnson is two after him,
so it goes Lincoln in Johnson. So it's three guys
in a row who just royally phipped up the Civil
(29:29):
War type stuff. If they would have done just even
a competent job, they would have gone a lot better.
And well, I mean Pierce was also fanning the flames.
He was a proud segregation right.
Speaker 1 (29:39):
I would say if they had been not even competent
but less incompetent.
Speaker 2 (29:44):
History, John Tyler is.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
A completely different direction.
Speaker 7 (29:50):
Loudly President, prey, excellent, first lady exactly. Yeah, you can't
win them all, it says America. But also to the
point about uh sexual at the time, yes, more fluid
in terms of how things were encountered in day to
day life on the ground. But the Abraham Lincoln rumors
in apocrypha come from some of his direct correspondents, but
(30:15):
also come from his younger days when he was bunking
in the same bed with another dude. I do want
to point out that at that time, when he was
living in the at that time in the areas that
he was living in, that was not uncommon, you know,
I mean, not everybody was able to pay for two
separate hotel rooms at the alla day in and folks,
(30:37):
with this, we are actually going to make an audible
which you won't hear the you won't hear this audible
because it's off Mike. We have conferred and this is
going to be part one of First Ladies Who Weren't
Wives Part two because there's just so much on Buchanan.
But we'll be back later this week with more first
(31:00):
Ladies who were first Ladies?
Speaker 2 (31:03):
Yep, wives were wives.
Speaker 4 (31:07):
Always a pleasure working with our buddy Jeff the g
Man Bartlett. Now what was it, G sauce factor, G money,
G unit, I like sauce though, Factor G remember G
Love and special sauce.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
I think that's what my brain was portmanteauing it into.
Speaker 1 (31:23):
Yes. Yeah, so big thanks to our research associate, Jeff
Factor G. Bartlett, Big big thanks to our returning super producer,
Max Williams.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
Long Mickey Rang, Welcome back, buddy, and I.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
Am overdue to check in with our composer Alex Williams.
I haven't spoken with him in a minute, but.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
Max, Alex is doing well. He's doing great.
Speaker 3 (31:43):
He is, you know, on the road doing the things
that Alex loves to do, hiking, yoga, having opinions about things.
Older brother that's a year and a half eight days.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
Older than me. Okay, good dude, love the both of these.
Speaker 6 (31:58):
Got to check in with with our buddy Alex as well,
who composed this bang and bop.
Speaker 1 (32:04):
I'm very overdue actually to talk with Alex about some
screenplay stuff. So with Max, extra bonus points to you,
my friend, for being diplomatic. I know it could be
difficult with siblings sometimes.
Speaker 3 (32:18):
Yeah, I mean, I mean I have a natural propensity
to be passive aggressive, and I did it on air,
and then I immediately started backtracking it because Smith has
not done me any good in my thirty four years
a life.
Speaker 1 (32:29):
Yeah, speaking of cartoonishly passive aggressive. Big thanks to the
Quister aka Jonathan Strickland. Big thanks as well to aj
Bahama's Jacobs, Orgey Riverside cham who else, who else?
Speaker 4 (32:44):
Oh, of course we've got Christopher Hasiotis and Eve's Jeff
Coates here in spirit and where would we be without
each other?
Speaker 2 (32:50):
Ben, Huge thanks to you. This is a fun one.
This was a real romp.
Speaker 1 (32:54):
And to you as well, everybody. Everybody who's feeling generous,
since we're talking about politics and people who get elected.
If you feel charitable and you would like to elect,
to leave us a kind review on your podcast platform
of choice. We sure appreciate it, and we hope you
(33:14):
tune in later this week.
Speaker 2 (33:16):
Indeed, let's see you next time, folks.
Speaker 4 (33:25):
For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to
(00:27):
the show, fellow Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always so
much for tuning in. Let's hear it for our returning
super producer, Max the Tattered mad Man Williams.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Welcome Mischief, Welcome to Well.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
I mean we were chatting and stuff. I mean surprised
to everyone you know we are. We are actually real
life friends. The three of us.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
I was Canada, the four of us, but uh, Vancouver.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
There was a Canada was Canada, right, Yeah, I was
in Portland and I was in Canada.
Speaker 4 (01:00):
Based in Canada.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
Yeah, it's basically funny thing Portland, Oregon. It's the only
place in this world where you say Vancouver and they
think of a different place than Vancouver.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Exactly what it's like.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
There's like a suburb basically of it. There's a city
cross the river in Washington called Vancouver. But it was great.
Speaker 5 (01:16):
It was actually kind of hot. But the thing about
it is hot coover by about what they call it.
They call it hot Couver. No call it that hot
Coouver day.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
It starts schooling off and it's like, wow, okay.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
This is different. This is Atlanta where it's like eighty
plus degree that.
Speaker 4 (01:32):
Like Midnight's bewest interesting story, maybe not interesting but appropriate.
My kid and their mom are leaving for Portland today,
so I might hit you up offline for some res.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
Oh yeah, there's a great uh. I think it's still around.
Pinball Museum is what it's called, but it's basically arcade.
It's like it's like twenty dollars play all day. But yeah,
as you mentioned, I had, I got two tattoos done,
my first two, and of course I'm already playing the third, fourth, fifth,
and sixth already.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
The same brother, I'm getting inky, I've got the bug.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
It's a lot of fout the bug too. But uh
no I mentioned this offline. But when I was talking
to Ben earlier today I mentioned him. He was just
said he was going to be around, you know, some
more French them things I said, watch up for. The
mimes are like you know, yeah, but h have to
break them first, and once you break them, you can
actually do real damage.
Speaker 4 (02:22):
Actually, their attacks are not that hard to dodge once
you get the hang of them, because they only do
like I think too. Sorry, we're talking about Claire Scarrett,
not actual French mimes.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
But they're scary too.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
Expedition thirty three and uh, speaking of the opposite of mimes,
this is an audio podcast, so we'll tell you who
we are. I am Ben Bullen. You have heard a
returning super producer, mister Max Williams, and our ever present,
ever awesome co host, one and only, mister Nole Brown.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
I'm nothing if not ever present. Thank you, Ben. I
appreciate that.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
It's good you try to figure out how to say
ever present.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
Well, English it's a funny language. It's something. This is
a weird segue. Nol. English is one of those languages
that is absolutely riddled with legacy words and syntax, even
when they don't make the most sense. And we could
argue in part two of First Ladies, Who Weren't that
the position of first lady quote unquote however described is
(03:22):
itself kind of like a legacy thing of monarchy. It
is an official position, but it's it's a thing that
always assumes the president of the United States will have
something like a spouse, and as our research associate Jeff
(03:46):
factor G showed us in our first episode here, that's
not always the case. Sometimes history has put some square
pegs into the round hole of tradition. That's how it's
dirty going on, I know for sure.
Speaker 4 (04:00):
And also, I mean, I just think to find the
idea of the president's being the first anything is fascinating
because it sort of implies he's number one, he's the
best one we got, and everything associated with him is
also the first whatever that thing. Remember the movie First Kid, Yes,
like a Nickelodeon type kid's movie from the nineties.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
It wasn't Nickelodeon, but it was of that ilk. That's right.
Speaker 4 (04:23):
But today we are indeed doing continuation of the first
part of the First Ladies who Weren't Wives. This part
includes the bachelors, the reluctant wives who passed on their duties,
and much much more. Jeff points out at the top,
and we'd like to join him in addressing that this
episode contains some discussion of some arguable perspectives of the
(04:46):
first gay president as well as the first gay first Lady.
I think that one is a little more substantiated the
first Lady one.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
Yeah, yeah, let's let's dive into this. That's that's an
excellent note for us to begin with. And folks, let's
also note this may be a two part series two
Part Part two. Yeah, yeah, just like when we did
idiomatic for the People or historical flex as, I think,
all right, let's start with let's get to the chicken
(05:15):
right away. Let's start with the one that is going
to be interesting to a lot of history buffs in
the audience, especially fellow presidential history buffs like ourselves. The
lifelong Yeah, the lifelong presidential bachelor and his first lady.
All right, when, Yeah, this one is as much about
(05:38):
the popularity of Harriet Lane, who will meet in a moment,
as much as it is about the fact that she
was only the first lady because she was not the
spouse of President James Buchanan, but she was the niece
of Buchanan and historians, just to get the headline out here, folks,
(05:58):
historians often will cite James Buchanan as quote, the nation's
most likely first gay president.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (06:07):
That term bachelor that you wish washed around in these
days was often used as a pejorative for being gay,
not in a positive way. It was not something that
we've talked about, but if you threw around the term
lifelong bachelor, that often had a little little bit of
stink on it, depending on who was throwing it around,
and Ben remind me, I believe in our last episode
(06:30):
on first Ladies who Weren't Wives, we also had a
player who was a relative who got that designation after
the fact.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
Yeah, talk about a player Old Andrew, two first Ladies Jackson.
There's a bit of a sad story there because, as
we recall from our first episode, Andrew Jackson had to
take his DSA on as the first lady because his
(06:59):
actual facts, as Lauren would say, a spouse passed away.
So there was already a niece who became a first
lady in terms of practice.
Speaker 4 (07:08):
Very similar story here, although we also have potential for
what might be considered the first man, but there was
just no space culturally for that to even be part
of the.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
Conversation for a first gentleman.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
Indeed, I like that.
Speaker 4 (07:23):
I definitely think it's important to talk about this historical anomaly,
even though it was something that we mentioned before, very
rare for this sort of passing of the torch to
a relative to become the nature of a first lady.
So this puts it into a much more interesting and
revelatory perspective than their wife died or what have you.
So let's get right into it.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
Yeah, all right, folks, travel back with us. It's the
beginning of eighteen forty four. There's a guy named James Buchanan.
He's a real up and comer in the Hall's political power,
but his presidential aspirations are about to go a raw.
At this point, he has had a bit of a
(08:03):
brew haha with the Washington Daily Globe. It stirred his
political rivals into a big, bubbling gumbo of hater tude. Yeah,
there's Aaron Venable Brown.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
Brown.
Speaker 4 (08:26):
Isn't that a Isn't that an adjective like to describe
someone being like prestigious or like of of note venerable
venerable moving on one of my h one of my
many historical etymological flubs.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
But I it.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
I'm so happy that we began this episode by talking
about how cartoonish the English language is. And perhaps because
I have some familial roots in the hinterlands of Tennessee,
Venable doesn't sound like two of a name for me.
But yeah, this guy, Aaron, he is from Tennessee. He's
especially pissed off. He's soup duped enraged, and he writes
(09:10):
a fake confidential letter to the future. First lady Sarah
Polk and in this quote unquote confidential letter, our but
e venable savages Buchanan and his better half, and he
says the following, mister Buchara looks gloomy and dissatisfied, and
so did his better half until a little private flattery
(09:34):
in a certain newspaper puff which you doubtless noticed, excited
hope that by getting a divorce she got set up
again in the world to some tolerable advantage. Read that
as gay.
Speaker 4 (09:48):
I mean, right, a little bit, isn't there some like
subtweety shade being thrown here?
Speaker 1 (09:53):
Exactly exactly nailed it, because the problem is that James
Buchanan up to now, even an to twenty twenty five,
he is the niians only bachelor president. The problem is
that James Buchanan at this point is our nition's only
bachelor president. So there was no spouse, there was no
(10:13):
female spouse to call his better half. And Brown's letter
heavily implies there was a man who fit the bill.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
It's true.
Speaker 4 (10:22):
Google James Buchanan and you're inevitably going to discover this
assertion that American history declared him to be the first
gay president. And it doesn't take a whole lot of
digging to discover that the popular understanding of Buchanan as
our nation's first gay president comes from his very close
personal relationship, not with God, you may have had that
as well, but with one man in particular, one.
Speaker 6 (10:44):
William Rufus, William Rufus Devain King, the Honorable Venerable William
Rufus Devaine, King of Alabama. The premise raises a lot
of questions what was the real nature of their relationship?
And people love a salacious raising of questions, so I'm
sure that Froth Fear describing was indeed quite bubbling.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
Yes, yeah, and I love that. I love that frauth
analogy there, because we also have to remember that the
three of us, your faithful correspondents here, are of a
generation where when we were growing up, there would be
lifelong same sex partners who described each other as roommates,
which is sad that society forced them into that kind
(11:29):
of semi closet space. Bu Can and King Rufus Deveyn
King shared another essential quality in addition to being on
the same page politically, they were both bachelors, as you said,
lifelong bachelors, never having married. Buchanan attended Dickinson College and
he studied law in Lancaster. His practice did really well
(11:53):
in eighteen nineteen. In fact, if you walked around the
town of Lancaster, you would see that he was considered
the city's most eligible bachelor. Everybody thought, this guy is
an up and comer. He's got the money, he's got
the bazazz, the panache. Who wouldn't want to marry Buchanon.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
Well, that's right.
Speaker 4 (12:15):
At a certain age and a certain walk of life,
eligible gets attached to bachelor and it's a positive thing.
It means you're a real pick, You're a real catch, right,
You're a real smoke show, a real dime. As the
kids say, do they say that or do they say
that in the fifties they may.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
It reminds me that old Jane Austen quote from Pride
and Prejudice, which is, sorry, folks, not my favorite book,
but there's one quote that gets thrown around a lot.
Jane Austen wrote, it is a truth universally acknowledged that
a single man in possession of a good fortune must
be in want of a wife.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
Yeah, a little bit gold digger at gold degree. And
there's being.
Speaker 6 (12:54):
There's some a little bit of subtweety stank on that
one too, if you ask me, they were.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
All about subtweety steak. And I'm going to write down
that phrase because I appreciate it.
Speaker 6 (13:04):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
Buchanan does ultimately become engaged to a young woman named
Anne Colvin. She is of a similar social echelon. She's
twenty three years old. Her dad is a wealthy tycoon
who made his money in iron and I love that
this is the period of history where you can say
someone made their money in just a noun.
Speaker 6 (13:28):
Oh, yeah, for sure, the railroads for example, or just railroads,
if we're just.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
Going with the nown with it.
Speaker 4 (13:32):
I made my money and horse, I made my money
in beach. Yeah, like that's what Ken did of the
Barbie universe. It's also a time where you could say
that someone died from hysterical convulsions.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
Right right, wandering wand.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
Which, unfortunately good yeah, happens with Anne Coleman, who's only
briefly in the story. The official narrative is that Buchanan
was always working and for some reason this caused him
(14:08):
to neglect his betrothed, which caused Anne Coleman herself to
break off the engagement. So she broke up with him,
not the opposite, and immediately died of heartbreak, and immediately,
like shortly thereafter died of to your note, what her
doctor at the time said were hysterical convulsions. And the
(14:29):
rumor mill of Lancaster goes absolutely nuts like it's their
own TMZ. On a local level, people are whispering and
saying that Anne Coleman committed suicidal Well, it.
Speaker 4 (14:41):
Would seem like Buchanan perhaps harbored a little personal guilt
around this, as he did say he entered politics to
distract himself from his great grief.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
He may well have loved this woman.
Speaker 4 (14:53):
I mean, you know, and look, what's the word platonic
love is very very re and there maybe even could
have You know, we also know that in these days,
and honestly well into the future, maybe even into the present,
there would be these arrangements where the woman would very
much know that the man that she was with was
not into women, but they will continue as this facade
(15:17):
with an understanding between.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
Them or vice versa one hundred percent.
Speaker 4 (15:21):
I mean, I'm not gonna lie, not to get too personal,
pretty much, that was the deal with my parents it's
in the opera world. Back in New York City in
the eighties and nineties, it was not the easiest thing
to be an out gay man, and there were a
lot of these marriages.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
Of convenience, right, and sometimes the street name or idiom
you may have heard, folks is the so called lavender
marriage or the beard right right or beard. Sometimes these
could occur because both partners needed cover and were not
sexually into each other. But we're close friends. Uh bu
(15:57):
can'd in, as he said, throws himself to work as
a result of this great grief and while he is
in Washington when he has entered politics for the politics
he and William Rufus Devane King lived together in a
communal boarding house kind of sometimes called a mess, similar
(16:19):
to the military term for a cafeteria. Okay, yeah, and
this was not just a them thing, to be clear.
At first, their boarding house had other Congress members in it,
and most of these were also unmarried men, and a
lot of them were kind of on the younger side
for the time, and this gave their communal home a
(16:42):
street name, the bachelor's Mess, like this is where the
single guys hang out. And there was not any at
this point, there was not any snarky, like subversive subtext
of all these people being gay or something. It was
just these guys are unmarried. So of course if you're
a congressman and you're not hitched, you live here.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
It makes sense, I guess, yeah. And bastards do be messy.
It's true.
Speaker 4 (17:07):
Over time, as other members of the group lost their
seats in Congress, the population of the mess dwindled from
four to three, and then there were two Buchanan and
King Washington. Society started to, you know, take notice and
look a bit of scance at this arrangement.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
Oh my gosh. And they were so vicious in these
social spheres. This is peak cattiness. Right at the galas,
at the balls and the fundraisers. People started calling him
mister Buchanan and his wife. And they would call these people,
they would call this future President and rufus King, things
(17:50):
like aunt fancy and aunt Nancy.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
My aunt fancy. That's an expression.
Speaker 4 (17:56):
Maybe years later, Julia Gardner Tyler, he was the much
younger wife of John Tyler, President, remembered at them as
the Siamese twins, which I guess you could call maybe
a little bit less of an insulting nickname, just.
Speaker 6 (18:11):
The fact that they were close. They were buds. Chang
and Aang Bunker were the famous conjoined twins who were
popular at the time. We've talked about on this podcast.
We have we have Affair.
Speaker 3 (18:24):
Just to jump in here real quick, because we brought
up John Tyler's second wife. I want to just call
back to the John Tyler has a living grandson, which
I haven't checked recently, see if the guy's still around.
But I'm trying to remember how many children he had
with the second wife.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
He was a jack rabbit.
Speaker 3 (18:39):
Yeah, he had fifteen I think total, and I think
he had at least five, maybe seven with the second wife.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
He was in his fifties by this point.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
Yeah, yeah, not as not as virile as Mick Jagger
or Robert de Niro.
Speaker 3 (18:50):
Today, but or John the baby maker right right, curtainly
still getting something, still getting.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
His feather mattress Calisthenics on. Well, yeah, so this is
fascinating because you know, you could say these guys were
just very close, lifelong friends. There are a lot of
people who have close friendships throughout their lives. They cherished
their rapport and their friendship and members of their immediate families,
(19:22):
importantly for the time seem to treat them the same,
you know, like this is my brother from another mother,
or you know, Buchanan, you may as well be my son. Uh,
it's right right. They had secret handshakes, I'm sure, and.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
I love that. I love a secret handshake. Can we do.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
All?
Speaker 2 (19:44):
Right?
Speaker 1 (19:44):
So in Weedland, which is the name for Buchanan's country
estate still near Lancaster, a heavy stoners, if you walk
into his estate at this point, you'll see not just
a portrait of William Rufus King, but you'll also see
a portrait of King's niece Catherine Margaret Ellis. And after
(20:09):
you can't and dies spoiler. In eighteen sixty eight, his
niece that we mentioned at the top, Harriet Lane Johnston.
She corresponds with this niece Ellis about how to get
how to get the correspondence of these men from the
king home in Alabama.
Speaker 4 (20:30):
And I started it was Wheatland, not Weedland, which is
over my brain immediately correct.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
I thought Wheatland was I thought that was some sort
of strain of cannabis.
Speaker 4 (20:39):
Or it could be like there's a dispensary somewhere in
the country called Weedland. Harriet lost both of her parents
by the age of eleven, and Jane's brother, who was
a senator at the time, James Buchanan of Pennsylvania, became
Harriet's legal guardian.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
Yeah, and we're getting a lot of this from some
great Smithsonian articles. Yeah, one by Thomas Balserski, The one
hundred and seventy five year History of Speculating about President
James Buchanan's Bachelorhood. Yeah, I love that word. Setting up
Harriet Lane's origin story. So how did she become the
(21:18):
first Lady for all intents and practices of the Buchanan administration.
It's because of this interaction between King and Buchanan. Like
you were setting up here, She's got a legal guardian
due to childhood tragedy. She goes to a boarding school,
first in Pennsylvania, then later she moves to Virginia and DC.
(21:40):
She lives with her uncle at his Wheatland estate in Lancaster,
and she travels abroad with Buchanan while he is serving
as Minister to Great Britain. This guy, this guy's a
little bit older when he moves into the White House
and a sense to the presidency. He's in his sixties
(22:02):
in eighteen fifty seven, and at this point, again he's
still a lifelong bachelor. Outside of that what engagement, He
is not only never married, but he has also had
no known romantic interaction.
Speaker 2 (22:19):
Trade with women. Yes, no, no, lady, no.
Speaker 6 (22:21):
Paragars, no things, flings, dalliance's perhaps no none of that.
So la relationship that's there, you go, situationships even so, yeah,
so Lane, is that what you said, Ben, I'm sorry, situationship.
We were on the same page. So Laine, at this point,
still quite a young woman, joins him in his role
(22:44):
at the White House.
Speaker 4 (22:45):
She's been his kind of constant companion at this point
in eighteen fifty seven.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
She brings this youthful vigor to the White House.
Speaker 4 (22:54):
Is a really great entertainer, which, as we know, is
a role that often falls to first ladies, and she
really becomes kind of a people's princess type figure, you know,
like very princess Diana. Yep, she's a celebrity for intents
and purposes, christening ships, signing autographs, doing charity banquets and fundraisers.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
She's a fashion plate. She's doing Kardashian level celebrity.
Speaker 6 (23:24):
Endorsement and send all the latest trends by the designers
of notes and things like that.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
She would have had millions of followers if Instagram were
a thing at this point. She also oversees the refurbishment
of the famous Blue Room at the White House. She
is the lead hostess on several important visits from Everything
you could imagine, Big Deal European Folks VIPs from Japan
(23:52):
in May of eighteen sixty. She also coordinates a visit
from Albert Edward, the Prince of Wales and look before
Jackie odasas Kennedy, few first ladies captured public imagination like
Harriet Lane.
Speaker 4 (24:12):
Yeah, and Jackie OH loomed so large that I personally
did not know about the legacy of Harriet Lane, because
we really do think of Jackie O as being that quintessential,
you know, first lady's first lady kind of And I
think that's probably in no small part due to this
speculation about the president's bachelorhood. Did not seem to stick
(24:32):
in the mind of history in the same way that
Jackie O did. But she was very much on the
same playing field that Jackie O would occupy, capturing the
public imagination, et cetera.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
Yeah, the important distinction here is that prior to Harriet Lane,
and maybe let's bracket Martha Washington between Martha Washington and
Harriet Lane. First ladies were very well known in the
up her crust of society, like in the DC Northeast area.
(25:05):
But if you ask someone in Oklahoma or California, they
probably wouldn't know much about this person. They might not
care as much. This changed with Harriet Lane because it
became cool to follow her, so women across the country
would copy the dresses and the gowns she was wearing,
(25:25):
like her inauguration gown.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
People.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
Yeah, people named their kids after her.
Speaker 6 (25:30):
Dude.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
They started writing her into popular songs and.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
She was beloved. She was beloved.
Speaker 1 (25:39):
Yeah, it's very Camelot Jackie O's stuff. And during this
context of history, the United States is teetering ever closer
to the brink of civil war. And this they called
her the Democratic Queen because the US has always eternally
struggled with the difference between meritocracy, democracy, and monarchy.
Speaker 2 (26:01):
Right for sure.
Speaker 4 (26:03):
Of course, she also was very active in philanthropic pursuits,
and she even took on the cause of Native peoples
of First First Nation peoples in improving conditions on these reservations,
which we know were not great.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
Absolutely, And I would say, based on the conversations I've
had with another show of ours wrongful conviction, I would
say those terrible conditions also continue in the modern day
with indigenous American populations. But she was trying to trying
to improve conditions, making a good faith effort. Her uncle
(26:43):
leaves office in eighteen sixty one, but she's such a
successful social personality that she continues her philanthropy. She helps
found a children's clinic at the Johns Hopkins Hospital. So
thank you, miss Lane. That's fantastic. And while we're extolling
her virtues, let us also mention that she was a
(27:05):
huge fan of the arts, and she acquired so many
pieces of pretty notable work, and she had always plan
not to hoard it or give it to her family
when she finally passed, but she always wanted it to
be for the American people and patron Yeah, and when
(27:27):
she passes away in nineteen oh three, she gives it
all to uncle Sam And the Smithsonian is so happy
about this that one of their officials calls her the
first Lady of the National Collection of Fine Arts.
Speaker 6 (27:41):
You got to start somewhere. She really kicked off that
collection in a very big way.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
It's true.
Speaker 4 (27:45):
And as we mentioned, she was hugely generous to Johns Hopkins,
the famous hospital in Baltimore, leaving an endowment to children's clinics,
and it became an incredibly important pediatric facility when that
was as much of a thing as it is today
in terms of like specialty facilities designated for children's healthcare
(28:06):
and for children dealing with very difficult conditions.
Speaker 6 (28:10):
M hm.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
And before we move on, Max, you hit us up
in the chat as a fellow presidential history buff. We're
interested to see what tangent you wanted to bring us
with Buchanan.
Speaker 3 (28:22):
Yeah, it's just, you know, it's two things tangentially related
to the story. Well, because one thing is there's a
lot of the more clickbait you want about the first
gay presidents. People have this theory that Lincoln was in
fact gay, and a lot of times what you'll read
when stuff like that people like, oh, no, Buchanan was gay,
and obviously there's no proof on all this. I think,
you know, not to get too woke on my soapbox,
(28:43):
where I think it's more just like the lines are
more blurred than people may want to accept they are.
But I think the big reason why everyone likes to
talk about Buchanan in this way is because it's better
than talking about Buchanan in any other way, because he
is widely considered the first president of good dimension.
Speaker 1 (29:03):
He's one of the worst three. He's one of the
worst three.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
How is he such an f up?
Speaker 3 (29:08):
She watched the country start the Civil War and did nothing?
He is amongst it's Andrew Johnson, James Buchanan, and Peer
and Peers are considered the three works were finding. Peers
is right before him, and Johnson is two after him,
so it goes Lincoln in Johnson. So it's three guys
in a row who just royally phipped up the Civil
(29:29):
War type stuff. If they would have done just even
a competent job, they would have gone a lot better.
And well, I mean Pierce was also fanning the flames.
He was a proud segregation right.
Speaker 1 (29:39):
I would say if they had been not even competent
but less incompetent.
Speaker 2 (29:44):
History, John Tyler is.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
A completely different direction.
Speaker 7 (29:50):
Loudly President, prey, excellent, first lady exactly. Yeah, you can't
win them all, it says America. But also to the
point about uh sexual at the time, yes, more fluid
in terms of how things were encountered in day to
day life on the ground. But the Abraham Lincoln rumors
in apocrypha come from some of his direct correspondents, but
(30:15):
also come from his younger days when he was bunking
in the same bed with another dude. I do want
to point out that at that time, when he was
living in the at that time in the areas that
he was living in, that was not uncommon, you know,
I mean, not everybody was able to pay for two
separate hotel rooms at the alla day in and folks,
(30:37):
with this, we are actually going to make an audible
which you won't hear the you won't hear this audible
because it's off Mike. We have conferred and this is
going to be part one of First Ladies Who Weren't
Wives Part two because there's just so much on Buchanan.
But we'll be back later this week with more first
(31:00):
Ladies who were first Ladies?
Speaker 2 (31:03):
Yep, wives were wives.
Speaker 4 (31:07):
Always a pleasure working with our buddy Jeff the g
Man Bartlett. Now what was it, G sauce factor, G money,
G unit, I like sauce though, Factor G remember G
Love and special sauce.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
I think that's what my brain was portmanteauing it into.
Speaker 1 (31:23):
Yes. Yeah, so big thanks to our research associate, Jeff
Factor G. Bartlett, Big big thanks to our returning super producer,
Max Williams.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
Long Mickey Rang, Welcome back, buddy, and I.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
Am overdue to check in with our composer Alex Williams.
I haven't spoken with him in a minute, but.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
Max, Alex is doing well. He's doing great.
Speaker 3 (31:43):
He is, you know, on the road doing the things
that Alex loves to do, hiking, yoga, having opinions about things.
Older brother that's a year and a half eight days.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
Older than me. Okay, good dude, love the both of these.
Speaker 6 (31:58):
Got to check in with with our buddy Alex as well,
who composed this bang and bop.
Speaker 1 (32:04):
I'm very overdue actually to talk with Alex about some
screenplay stuff. So with Max, extra bonus points to you,
my friend, for being diplomatic. I know it could be
difficult with siblings sometimes.
Speaker 3 (32:18):
Yeah, I mean, I mean I have a natural propensity
to be passive aggressive, and I did it on air,
and then I immediately started backtracking it because Smith has
not done me any good in my thirty four years
a life.
Speaker 1 (32:29):
Yeah, speaking of cartoonishly passive aggressive. Big thanks to the
Quister aka Jonathan Strickland. Big thanks as well to aj
Bahama's Jacobs, Orgey Riverside cham who else, who else?
Speaker 4 (32:44):
Oh, of course we've got Christopher Hasiotis and Eve's Jeff
Coates here in spirit and where would we be without
each other?
Speaker 2 (32:50):
Ben, Huge thanks to you. This is a fun one.
This was a real romp.
Speaker 1 (32:54):
And to you as well, everybody. Everybody who's feeling generous,
since we're talking about politics and people who get elected.
If you feel charitable and you would like to elect,
to leave us a kind review on your podcast platform
of choice. We sure appreciate it, and we hope you
(33:14):
tune in later this week.
Speaker 2 (33:16):
Indeed, let's see you next time, folks.
Speaker 4 (33:25):
For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Ridiculous History News
Hosts And Creators
Ben Bowlin
Noel Brown
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