History's Dumbest Criminals, Part 2

In the second part of this series, the guys are joined once again by Pod Yourself A Gun's Vince Mancini and Matt Lieb to explore the startling story behind the infamous 1976 Chowchilla kidnapping, where a trio of young men planned to get rich by kidnapping a school bus full of children (spoiler: it didn't work out). Tune in to learn more.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Ridiculous History is a production of I Heart Radio. Welcome

(00:27):
back to the show Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always
so much for tuning in. That's our one and only
super producer, the Man the myth Legend, Max Williams. They
called me Ben and no, believe it or not, we're
kind of on a streak, dude. This is another on
purpose two part. Or isn't it's true? We're batting too?

(00:48):
Is that a thing? Batting averages work? Does that to
be does have to be a ratio? It has to
be a ratio. I think. I don't think you can
just bat too. I don't know. We can discuss this
more today. In our second part about dumb mobsters, dumb
mafio sos, we mixed a few others in their mind.
Was about dumb kind of secondary players doing dumb stuff

(01:10):
to a mobster who then eliminated all of them with impunity,
including his own people. Because uh, you know, that's just
what a guy with a name like Johnny the Bats,
Johnny Batts, Johnny Batter, he was a new Baseball Scores.
I can tell you that right now. That's just the
kind of stuff that guys like that do. But we
are once to con joined with Matt Leeb and Vince
Mancini from the pod Yourself a Gun Podcast, the only

(01:32):
sopranos podcast on the Internet that sound cube. Hi, hey guys,
thank you so much for coming back. Uh and you know,
I know it was a little touch and go off air,
but we have we have squashed some beefs and uh,

(01:54):
we're back to our adventures now. Previously we explored this
story of jack Ente and uh as as you said, Noel, Uh,
the vengeance of Big Tuna, which is how that's like
burned into my brain now, uh, and today in part two,
we're going to explore another strange event and then we're

(02:15):
also going to explore an interesting sibling duo. So fans
of Mafio so it's probably can already call that one
from a few miles away. But Vince, let's let's hear
about Let's hear about this caper you found because you
found out like, um, was it a kidnapping? It was
a kidnapping? Yes, so good? All right? You know you

(02:38):
guys said dumb mobsters and I knew you know, as
you guys were gonna have to bag on Italians a lot.
And uh, and I was like, you know what, there
are other dumb people in the world. It's anti Italian discrimination,
that's right. And this this was a plot that involved
three people, so I think that is technically you know,

(02:59):
an organized I'm that's right itself. Also, it took place
in chow Chilla, California, which is just up the road
from where I live in Fresno. And um, you know,
we don't get a lot of you don't get a
lot of like central California, San Joaquin Valley news that
breaks out into the mainstream. Um, a chow is a

(03:22):
chow chilling, like a combination between a chin chilla and
a chow like the like, Yeah, that'd be some sort
of labradoodle portmanteau situation. Actually, don't know how it got
the name. I feel like it was probably in this
article somewhere and I missed that part. But chow chilla
sounds also a little bit like Godzilla, So they're part

(03:43):
of me. That's just like a really really big woman
inside of a Chinese food buffet, just being like it
could also be a lesser known member of Wu Tang
for sure, ye chow yeah for sure. Yeah, I don't
know how that one got its name. Um. There's a

(04:05):
few others that I like Kalinga, which is at the
far west south end of Sandwaquin Valley that used to
be they gotta stame because it was coaling Station A
and so they just put coaling A and then they
named the town. I don't go there. It's not very nice,
but straight do do. It's like just to do do Town.

(04:25):
I hope, I hope that it's is welcome to do
do town. Welcome to do do veil population you and
a bunch of cows do do town, USA with a poopamji. Um. Yeah,
So this I'm getting most of my There was a
recent box article by Caleb Horton about this episode, which

(04:46):
is where I'm getting most of these quotes and facts from. Um.
And he is from Bakersfield, which is at the far
south end of the Sandwaquin Valley. And uh, you know,
you need an insider. So it's not just people looking
down their nose is at US country folk. Um. But yeah,
this was this happened in July nine, and you know,

(05:09):
we were talking about mafia, like dumb mobsters and you
and mostly the story with like the mafia was of
immigrants who sort of came here and uh, we're trying to,
you know, figure out how to climb the societal ladder.
And so they decided to you know, do crime and
uh and then that was kind of the way that

(05:30):
you climbed the societal ladder back in the day was
you know, you've got a few corners. Most of the
people that were rich didn't get there by doing uh,
you know, not crime. So but this one, I think
is is interesting because the people that did this crime,
which was they kidnapped school kids from a school bus. Um.

(05:54):
The thing about it is that they're all rich. Uh.
These are all rich kids who lived uh up in
the Bay Area, in Portola Valley, which is like a
sort of wealthy suburb of San Francisco down on the peninsula.
The kids who were kidnapped, the school bus kids are
rich or the three the school bus kids, well that

(06:16):
were kidnapped, we're from Chowchilla, uh and the rich kids
lived up in uh Portola Valley in the in the
Bay area. Um. The ringleader of the gang was a
guy named Frederick new Hall Woods the Fourth. Yeah. That's
a great mafia nickname, right. Yeah. And when you have

(06:37):
like the fourth in your name, like, you know, usually
that probably beings that you're rich. He was rumored to
have a one million dollar trust fund. What wow? So
wait wait wait, So he's either he's either quite wealthy
or comes from a line of very uncreative people when
it comes to names. And yeah, I guess we can
assume he's not into this school bus caper for the money.

(07:00):
Well he was. He was in it for the money,
which is the weird. He wanted more than a million dollars. Yeah,
what if I had a hundred million in one dollars?
You know, what's cool? Hundred million and one dollars. I mean,
the worst thing that you can do is be sort
of rich, but be around people that are more rich

(07:21):
than you are, which is uh. You know that if
you've ever seen the gods must be crazy where they
all fight over the coke bottle. Yeah, that's pretty much
what happened here. But just a little bit more about
Frederick new Hall. His middle name comes from Henry Mayo
new Hall, who traveled to California in eighteen fifty with
the miners to strike it rich and did in land

(07:42):
and railroad speculation. He formed the new Hall Land and
Farming Company, which is Children incorporated in eighteen eighty three.
By nineteen seventy six, the family was making eighty million
dollars a year in ranching oil and land. It was
Henry new Hall's land that became Santa Clarita and Valencia
the old this community in the area. New Hall is
even named for him. Fred's dad, Frederick new Hall Woods

(08:05):
the third, owns a rambling estate in the wealthy Bay
Area town of Portola Valley called the Hawthorne's. That's another
tell when you're really rich, is that you're the place
that you live has a name. Yeah, if your house
has a name, I think that's a good rich man,
poor poor man. If if your house has a name,
because it's either like the name of the housing project

(08:26):
or the name of your estate. Right, yeah, yeah, yeah,
that's that's right. That's very true. You make a good point,
and it only really counts if other people participate in
the name. Right. You can call your place like Santa Do. Yeah. Yeah,
apartment in East Hollywood's name is Santa Do. Thank you.

(08:46):
I just on all of my government forms whenever they
ask address, I just put Zana. They should know by now.
M uh yeah. So, Frederick, that's the kid. He lived
on his the seventy nine acre estate, in his own apartment,
on his on his father's property. Uh. And the description

(09:08):
of him from this article is he's a funny looking kid.
He's got long gold hair and a goofy mustache. He
looks kind of like Lee Marvin if Lee Marvin was
melting and lived with his parents. God, that's a great description.
So what he's like, what like in his early teens
or what we say? Okay, so he's not fully a
kid yet it got it, got it, got it. He's

(09:29):
your basic, you know, fail sun dumbass kind of character. Uh.
Description of him all He really cares about his cars
and he has north of fifty of them on his
parents estate, many of them junkers. He carries pictures of
his cars in his wallet. The neighbors complain about how
often they hear shotgun blasts from the property. Apparently he
loves his cars so much he shoots out the windows

(09:51):
for kicks. That's fun, that's fun. This guy seems like
a real delight that he had a lot of friends.
He's he's sounds like a lot of winner, you know
what I mean? Like this is just like someone who's
like I got a billion dollars. Now that's the genetic
lotto winner. Yeah, seriously. Yeah. So but he's got he's

(10:12):
got this gang. He's getting a gang going, um, you know,
to to figure out this crime. Um. And so he
has his buddy, his buddy Jim Schonfeld, who was also
twenty four, son of a wealthy Atherston podiatrists. That's where
the criminals come from, podietry. Yeah. The feet. Uh. He

(10:33):
helps fred by repair and sell cars. Um and uh
repair the ones that he blew the windows out from.
It's just three glasses of them. Yeah. And then Jim
Schonfeld has a brother named Rick Schonfeld, who is two
years younger, is twenty two. Uh, he is actually a
film major at San Jose State and his like their

(10:54):
big plan is they want to use the proceeds from
the car business to finance Rick's movies. And part of
the plan here was to do this crime and then
to get the ransom and then also make a movie
about it and then make double money. Oh dude, now
you got the money and the money one money bad?

(11:18):
Too money good? What wasn't it already based on some
sort of short story that was like published in like
an Alfred Hitchcock kind of compendium of some kind. Did
you read that detail? I don't know, I didn't know,
well what the What I got from this article was
that they based it on Uh. I think it was
Dirty Harry. There was. They based their their kidnapping plot

(11:43):
on on Dirty Harry. Yeah, they got they got it.
I forget the exact plot. Didn't do an original. They
didn't do an original, uh, like kidnap plot. They were like,
we're gonna make a movie out of this, even though
there was were gonna do the kidnapping based on a movie.
Then make a movie based on the kidnapping. Yeah. I

(12:05):
read somewhere along the way that there was a story
called The Day the Children Vanished by Hugh Pentecost that
was published in like Alfred Hitchcock's Daring Detectives, like one
of those like you know, kind of um weekly or
whatever monthly like with a different little short stories in.
But yeah, Hugh Pentecost was a great name, great name.
But who knows, maybe Dirty Harry got some of their

(12:27):
inspiration from that short story too. Nothing's original in Hollywood,
not a thing. Yeah. Yeah, because the Dirty Harry actually
had the bus, uh, And that happened, and that was
in San Francisco, but the density and complexity of the
city was too overwhelming for them. Uh. The way they
saw they'd have better odds in a very rural area

(12:47):
with fewer bystanders. And so they basically looked around for
like a place that where the bus routes seem like
it would be isolated and wouldn't have too many people
poking a round. Uh, and that's how they came to
Chow chill Up. They didn't like count on the fact

(13:11):
that that would also be a poor area, like what
like this is was part of the plan to ransom
of these kids to their parents? Well, no, the plan
was because the schools are run by the government. Uh,
they figured that the government, would you know, the best
way to do it was to try and build the

(13:32):
government because they would have the money in public notoriously overfunded.
They're just hemorrhaging money. So logic is that they need
multiple victims for multiple millions, and they need to be
children because people will do anything for children. And it
had to be a school because keeping kids safe at
school is a government responsibility. Yeah, historically that's proven out

(13:55):
real real Well, yeah, that's the thing that. Oh man, Yeah,
schools are always safe. We've known that since day one
in America because again, they have so much money. These
guys like I just already vince. I want to be
not participating in their heigst, but I want to be
like casually in the room, maybe just like eating chips

(14:15):
and watching them, you know, like this is They were serious.
I guess they had to be because they had They
did it. They did it. Um. It had to be
a school because keeping kids safe at school is a
government responsibility. They'd pay the ransom, no problem. Quote. I
wasn't going to commit any crime, risk my life or
risk my reputation for anything less than a million. So

(14:37):
a bank proberty wouldn't work. A drug deal wouldn't work.
James continued with a kidnapping quote. The state pays us
the ransom, We're happy forever. All of our troubles are solved,
and we let the victims go. Everybody's happy. The windows,
the windows on the cars. What his parents? Maybe he
was just pissed that he couldn't get that trust fund
like right away they were being withholding. He just needed

(15:00):
the cash. Now, did he have some hairbrained venture in mind?
I just I didn't understand why form a gang. I've
never heard of such a gang of like these aristocratic youths.
You know, this is a very weird situation. I was
gonna save the modem motive for later, but I think
I can what Rick, Okay, let's have a slow burn
to them. Sure, yeah, because it's pretty kid um. So

(15:25):
you know they got this plan. They picked chow Chilla. Uh.
So you know they find they find this bus that
they're gonna kidnap. And this is what happened. A guy
in overalls with pantyhose covering his face jumps out in
front of the bus with a revolver. The man walks
to the driver's side window and asks ed the bus
driver's name is eds guy ed Ray, with no intimidation

(15:46):
in his voice, would you open the door please? Two
other guys with rifles, one to drive, one to watch kids. Basically, Uh,
they had there's three of them. There's uh, there's two
in the bus and then one is driving. Uh. One
follows them in a van and they drive about they
go and they ditched the bus and they move the

(16:08):
kids into another van and they take these two vans
and they drive a hundred miles uh north up to
a rock quarry outside Livermore. How many kids are we
talking about. There's twenty six kids, twenty six kids, a
hundred miles and they want to do this all in
the space at twenty four hours. I just feel like
there's something to be said about setting yourself up for success.

(16:31):
A little pre production wouldn't have hurt. And you know
the thing that you have to understand about Central California,
this is also July. It's the Central California in the
middle of July, so it is extremely, extremely hot. Um.
So they drive up to Livermore and in Livermore there
is like this makeshift prison made out of a third

(16:52):
van and it's just buried in the dirt uh in
uh in the rock quarry. Their prison looks to be
a moving van and the sides and ceiling warped from
the weight of surrounding dirt. There are two air shafts
hoses that run above ground to a tree. There are
some mattresses on the ground and a pathetic amount of
necessities wonderbread, peanut butter, potato chips, water jugs, some holes

(17:14):
carved for toilets. After all, the kids are inside a
steel plate slides over the entrance and it's weighted down
by two hundred pound tractor batteries. So you know, they
stuffed all the kids and the bus driver uh into
this van buried underground. I mean, that's a bit of
a production right there. They had to bury the van,

(17:35):
they had to find the site, they had to build
a makeshift prison. That's kind of impressive. It takes a
little bit of you know, moxie to get something like
that done. Yeah, I mean, I feel like they could
have applied themselves to literally anything else and had had
a nice little life. You know. It's unfortunate. It's really unfortunate. Um.

(17:56):
And then we don't know exactly what the kidney eppers
did at this point, but one thing that they didn't
do was deliver a ransom note, which is what but
they tried, right Uh well, no, they found the ransom
note later in a notebook. They had one, but they

(18:19):
didn't get to the part where they delivered it yet.
The police in Chowchilla get a call at about seven
pm from an anonymous woman who directed them to the
quarry Livermore can become famous. Later in the night, Mayor
Jim Dumas's wife gets a call from another anonymous woman.
The children will be found, but there will be others.
It's not over a hundred miles away. Twenty seven people

(18:40):
are buried in a moving van, sweating, crying and struggling
to breathe. And despite the mysterious phone calls, the police
have no idea why. There's no motive and no ransom note.
The kidnappers forgot to deliver one. And so at some
point in the night. Uh, the bus driver who is

(19:01):
uh classic Oakie, Uh, Central Valley obviously is where you
know Steinbeck Country. All the os came over the dust
bowl and this apparently this bus driver is just a
he's just a strong, good old boy who likes to
bail hay and drink Pepsi's um. And Uh so they
sort of pile up all the mattresses in the corner,

(19:23):
and they get the wood out of the mattresses, and
he uses uh they used the stacked up match mattresses
and the wood wooden slats from the bed springs to
pry the tractor batteries off of the Yeah, so they
get out like sort of in the middle of the night.

(19:45):
They had been in the bus for about fifteen hours
by this point, and so basically, where are the three guys.
Are the three guys around are they keeping watch? So
here's the thing, because these guys were, which they sort
of Well, what happened was the kids and the bus
driver got out, you know, they get discovered, and the

(20:06):
kidnappers hear about this on the news, and uh two
of them immediately flee, and then the younger, the younger
brother immediately does what any rich kid in this situation,
uh does, which is resolved to confess and lawyer up immediately.
So because he lawyered up immediately, there's like a whole

(20:29):
of time where we don't know exactly what happened because
you know, they were able to make plea deals and
whatnot too and and never really had to reveal what
exactly happened between the time that they buried these kids
and at the time that they were found. And uh so,
by three the undelivered ransom note was found. It was

(20:51):
exactly what you'd expect, naive, dashed off, lots of words
crossed out with penn like it was written in thirty seconds.
It says your bus that's you are you are bus
has been kidnapped. Uh. It claims there are members of
some unknown Satanic cabal called beals Abub. Actually have I
have the actual uh note here in my in my notes,

(21:15):
are we gonna have a dramatic reading? Yes, please do
a double voice. Please put two and a half million
dollars in each of the suitcases total use old bills
have ready at the Old police station. Further instructions pending
until ten five pm Sunday. We are wait. I'm sorry.

(21:37):
They wanted the uh, the ransom money delivered to the
Oakland Police Station. Yeah. So they actually apparently had like
a decent idea uh to collect the money. To collect
the money, um, they decided the five million dollars ransom
will we delivered to a drop site in the Santa
Cruz Mountains. Uh. This is the only part of their
plan that could be considered clever. They were going to

(21:59):
drive up the host to someplace heavily wooded, then go
back inland and have airplanes patrol for two hundred miles
up and down the area until they saw a certain
series of lights indicating the drop site. Then the money
was to be dropped on them, and then they'd be gone.
By the time they had the money, Nobody would be
able to get there. You can't just stake out two
hundred miles. And that was that was from the bus driver, right,

(22:20):
wasn't that him giving his perspective from that No, that's
actually the one of the investigators named a different edu.
They bought an everyone was named ed. That's right. They
bought an X ray machine from a Navy surplus station
in case the ransom money was bugged. Uh, they had

(22:40):
homemade bulletproof vest that they made with scrap metal. Um.
Fred rented a trailer in Reno for a safe house
and got a passport under a fake name of Ralph Snyder,
and he bought a printing calculator to count the money. Uh, yeah,
they had. They had a lot of plans. But the

(23:01):
only reason we know about these plans is because the
police found Jim's notebook, which had all the plans in it,
which is where they got the ransom note that wasn't
actually delivered. Yeah, so this is part of this is
from the notebook. Conceal the kids, hide the vans, go

(23:22):
somewhere else to collect the money. From there, Rick will
get a plane to take James to a small uncontrolled
airport like LOWD. They'll meet Fred, who will hijack the plane.
Then they just kind of buried the lead on that one.
They like they looked around when they were brainstorming or
pitching this, and they're like, the fucking Fred will do

(23:42):
the plane? The plane, And he's like, all right, we're
drawing straws for who gets to hijack the plane. I
love hijacking a plane is part of the escape plan, Like, yeah,
then Rick and Fred load the dummies into the plane
with parachutes and an extra parachute of course dummies. Okay,
why are their dummies? I'm assuming they're going to fake

(24:05):
their deaths as part of this. Playing love it. I
love the simplicity really of the whole thing. It's well,
it's it's it's like simultaneously like over complicated and incredibly
simplistic in the same time. It's like this magical media.
It's like doing it for the movie as much as

(24:25):
for the heist. You know, they're like, someone's going, you
know what we really need though from a filmmaking perspective,
to be a strong act to which means another heist.
That's right, Jim is taking possession of the money. Thus,
a state employed secretary will be appointed to bring the
money in three brown paper parcels and instructed too, and

(24:48):
that's it. They don't finish the sentence. Uh. Another section
of the notebook details other general stuff. They had to
remember to burn the book. They forgot to get infrared
to see it night. They didn't to get a vote
for Reagan bumper sticker to quote be anonymous, uh or
just be like less of a cop target, like to

(25:10):
be pulled over because it's like you're a friendly I guess, yeah, yeah, no, no, no,
he's cool. He's gotta vote for Reagan sticker on this
obvious fucking like kidnap van. Some other items asked for
used bills. Don't spend money for seven years. Get an
X ray truck with gas masks and lead vests, a
microwave oven to foul bugging devices, melt all plastic, and

(25:33):
then the heaviest lift a parenthetical has ever had to do.
Quote to pick up the money using an illusion like magic,
So I just David Copperfield that ship, like make the
statue of Liberty disappear as a diversion so you can
get the money. Smoking mirrors, man, smoking mirrors again. The

(25:54):
planning sounds like such an amazing conversation totally like there
are they they're smoking weed? Right? Is that this is
this is totally just a lewd fueled kidnap plot. There's
also oh no doubt mean or or the very least. Um,

(26:16):
you know, mushrooms are some psychedelics because there's a part
in the notebook from from from the article that I
found um where he talks about having just seen The
Exorcist and how it was making him question his sanity. Like,
you know, I don't apropos of nothing. Really, It's not
like I think I maybe won't do the crime because
I'm thinking that maybe I'm not all there. It was

(26:38):
just this one little aside where it's like this movie
The Exorcist is making me question my sanity. Um said
to me, I think there has to be some heavy
psychedelics involving because the logic of this thing, the whole
thing is like an acid trip where you're like you
can just kind of flip from one thing to the
next and you just kind of go with it, like
it all kind of makes sense if you look at
it holistically, but on paper, none of these states steps

(27:00):
make any sense, and they're all just so designed to
I mean, of course, at all collapses before they even
get a chance to do like most any of it. Right, Well,
they didn't get all of the kids inside of dream logic. Yes, exactly, Ben,
That's exactly what I was trying to get out, total
dream logic. They were able to get all of the
kids inside of what almost was very tragic, grave sort

(27:23):
of situation because they could have suffocated. They didn't even
have holes punched in the lid form or anything, right,
I mean, did they think any arrangements to make sure
they they could have holes? Okay, good, good, good, but
not like food water. Well, they had peanut butter and
jelly sandwiches. They had a hole for ppe and poopo, um,
you know, everything that a kid needs to survive for

(27:47):
five minutes. Exactly I do. I do think we should
point out there's I did not see this. I did
not see me playing this role today. But in defense
of the airplane part of the highest okay, just hear
me out, hear me up. In defense of that part.
We have to remember this is this is seventies six,
right roundabouts, so just five years earlier. One of the

(28:12):
most well known successful sky jackings in history occurred. D. B.
Cooper in one. So they it's very recent and everybody
knew about it, so maybe they were maybe it seemed
much more plausible from their perspective, don't you. I still
think no, the seventies was the golden age of of
plane hijackings. Yeah, there's actually a book called The Skies

(28:35):
Belong to Us which is all about how many hijackings
there were in the seventies. Is pretty good. Basically, at
this point, you know, the Rick has lawyered up, told
his dad, and then James and Fred are still on

(28:56):
the loose. Uh, and so this is where we're picking
up the story. Meanwhile, a nationwide manhunt was on for
James and Fred. There were sightings of them clear out
to Tennessee. James would later write the following in his
notebook quote, I save swear words for bad situations, But
all I could think of was, oh shit, you guys

(29:17):
got the heart of a poet. Wasn't he a film student?
I think you mentioned that he was his brother. His
younger brother was the film His younger brother was a
film student, so he definitely would have been thinking, at
least in terms of the cinematic kind of I swear
to God, the whole dB Cooper thing, it's probably like
he saw it was just like, you know, that was awesome.
Let's like, let's incorporate that into this thing. And then
the Dirty Harry thing. Definitely the short story from the

(29:40):
they were. What I found was that there were a
few details of the crime. I didn't get specifics that
were in this short story that I talked about, the
disappearing shouldern or whatever, But I mean, I think the
bigger parts of it were definitely inspired by Dirty Harry.
So he's pulling all his influence from works to fiction. Uh,
possibly dB Cooper, which is, you know, the most cinematic
heist like of that era. I mean, this dude is

(30:02):
just kind of a weird stoner kid. I gotta know
the why he needed the money. His whole deal is
like he very much like reading his notebook. He strikes you.
It feels like holding Coffield there was some other sort
of novel written from the perspective of like an immature dope. Um, yeah,
it's pretty great. Uh, we'll get to the motive. After
the kids escaped, Fred and James had driven out to

(30:23):
their safe house and Reno then using his phony passport,
Fred had flown up to Vancouver, leaving James behind with
no good options. Alone and terrified, he fled to court Aline,
Idaho because of its proximity to a border crossing, But
on the eighteenth, when he tried to get to Canada,
a hundred miles north, he was turned away by border
patrol because he was too nervous and well, his car

(30:44):
was full of guns. Yeah, that's how they get you.
That's how they get you. Damn it foiled again by
my mountains of guns in the back of my Uh.
Driving back to court a lane, James couldn't keep his cool.
He was too exhausted. In a desperate last ride, he
drove to Spokane to sell his guns at a sporting
goods store. Then, believing he'd done his due diligence, he

(31:07):
tried again to enter Canada at Cascade. He was refused,
this time because of Fred. He left two pistols in
the center console and two rifles in the trunk, which
James had somehow missed when he was specifically looking for
guns to get rid of. He turned I got rid
of most of them. He turned up with Canada. You guys,
you see a couple of guns in the dash again, sir,

(31:30):
We're very sorry. You know, we don't make the laws.
We're just we're just here working like you. I like
guns personally, but you just can't bring him in. So close, though, dude,
so close. That was almost all the guns. He turned
back to court Alane and sold them before bandoning, abandoning
his sixty three Chrysler, trading it for fifty Chrysler Van.

(31:50):
He was filthy broke, smelled like garbage, and hadn't slept
in a bed in five days, and he continued writing
in his diary through it all. This is this is
another great part from his diary. Remember there is something
good and everything. Why don't people see the good? They
only see the bad. It's just like the Diary of
Anne Frank, except for it's a guy who's kidnapping children.

(32:11):
I I gotta say the kudos to the journalists from Vox.
Filthy broke. I don't know that one. That's that's really
clever Turner phrase filthy comma broke. But okay, you know
I'm still taking it as filthy broke though you know no,
I think you coined it. Then it's mine filthy rich.
There's filthy broke. Caleb Horton that comma separated you from greatness,

(32:33):
my friend. Um. But yeah, by the way, anybody that
wants to like really dig in. This is a super
in depth article on vox. It is really really cool.
It's like very like lots of cool images and it's
a really really great read. Highly recommended. I will continue
to see good in everything, no matter what happens. Refer
to the myth of Sysiphus, which is that like a

(32:54):
note for him in the final draft he also spelled
Sysiphus wrong, which is another there aspect of this. Meanwhile,
you know you got your Fred. He was the he's
the ringleader. Uh and he is up in Canada. Fred
got to Vancouver at six pm the Saturday after the
children's escape and checked into the St. Francis Hotel on

(33:17):
Seymour Street by the freight Yards. He paid in advance
and asked the hotel manager if he could get some work.
Quote he seemed like a big dance of a kid.
The manager later said he dressed like a cowboy and
grinned all the time. Which I think this whole thing
is kind of funny because it's like these kids, these
dumb kids from a San Francisco suburb who are uh

(33:37):
the whole time like dressing, like what their idea of
chow chilla and what their idea of Canada is where
they're kind of just like, look at me, I'm just
a big dumb cowboy. Greetings fellow locals. He wrote a
letter to his screenwriter friend David, telling him that his
crime would make a good movie of the week if
not a feature. I'm just sorry. It's just it's just

(34:00):
also sad. It's just like, uh, this the idea that
at the end of the day, this was just like man,
but because this would be a cool movie, do you
make like what we made a cool movie? And it's like,
just write a script like you know, ki kids. He's like,
it's snow but I like, I don't want to. I'm
not like I'm more of an ideas man, like a

(34:22):
bunch of three idiots saying I'm an idea man in
a circle for an hour. He's just like, I'm too
bad at game theory. I can't. I can't game this out.
I have to see what Actually, you just gotta exactly
run the simulation. No wait, it's not a simulation. Now
I'm probably going to go to prison for the rest
of us. You gotta get a look at this guy too.
Like it's a black and white image, and I think
it might just be the light, but it almost looks

(34:43):
like he has this weird like skunk stripe in his hair,
like this kind of like like super villain kind of
skunk stripe. Um, And he looks like like he should
be a you know what what is it, um Slytherin
kind of like you know, villain and one of the
Harry Potter movies. He's got like severe eyebrows and yeah,
just really has the look of a guy that would

(35:04):
be this guy, Like you said the holding call field, Like,
I'm so entitled yet so sad, and so I deserve
to have this adventure. Let me have this. Why don't
people see the good? You know, you only see the
bad when I kidnapped children. He's got a lot of
feelings and he does not have the brain power to
articulate them in any cathartic sort of way. Um, So

(35:28):
this is this is back from the letter to his
friend Jim or sorry, his his screenwriter friend David. I
guess he's got a lot of screenwriter friends. That's what
you did in the seventies, um My ending is not
exciting enough, so you might have to kill some people
or something. Uh. If you do make it into a film,
all I want is a percentage of it you make
it up. I don't care how much, but be fair.

(35:49):
Uh and he spelled fair fri e. This letter would
contribute to his downfall. On Friday, acting on an FBI
tip plane, closed officers from the Royal Canadian Mounted Police
taked out the main Vancouver Post office. They knew Fred
had been setting letters, sending letters under the name Richard Snyder.
They waited and waited, and finally sprang into action, only
to mistakenly tackle two German students. Uh, but you know

(36:13):
they've eventually got the right guy. I like how they
always make the cops a character uh in this, and
really like the cops did almost nothing in this, Like
they got they found the letters. The kids were so stupid.
I mean they like they gift wrapped all this literally
the notebook with the whole narrative, the letter there, the
ransom note they forgot to deliver. It's all like right

(36:35):
there in one place. Yeah, I would love to be
in the interrogation room. Also, in my head, I still
have the bagga chips, and then the guy from the
earlier conversation where they were planning the heist, like, this
must have been okay, I don't want to diminish what happened,
but as if they're the detectives are in there and
they've got the notebook and they're like, al right, guys,

(36:55):
hell of a read them. You know, spelling is tough,
but let's let's talk about this because I I read
somewhere that initially they somehow had the hutspit of plead innocent. Yeah. Well,
part of what they got charged with was kidnapping with
intent to inflict bodily harm, and so they disputed the

(37:16):
bodily harm part and um, and then the bus driver
testified and the judge did not agree with their assessment,
and so they all got life in prison um without
the possibility of parole, which they appealed a bunch of
times until they eventually received the possibility of parole um.

(37:38):
But thirty nine years after the crime, Jim got to
speak at his parole hearing, uh, and he described the
motive as I wanted to fit in with these new
people that we moved next to, he said, and you know,
my friend's parents had twin ferraris his and hers with
telephones in them. My dad lent me some money and
I bought a Jaguar. I found out that the insurance

(38:01):
was more than I made in a whole year, So
two months later I had to sell the jaguar. I
just figured I need money. Money would solve all my problems.
You know, I got Okay, I'm gonna make a we
do parliamentary procedure or something like it. Here on ridiculous history,
and this story is so fascinating. No, what do you think?
Do you want to just I think we should spend
this episode on this story because there's still some stuff

(38:23):
to unravel here. Oh there's a lot. Like I mean,
it's it's a pretty big It kind of keeps going.
You think you've seen the bottom of it. I just
have so many questions that I know will never get answered,
and they might they might, because what are those guys
like I think this is where you go with this VENC.
We're gonna talk about their their lives like in prison. Well,

(38:45):
so the Schonville brothers got out eventually, uh in like
or something like that. Well they did, but then they
you know, because they're rich. They found a lawyer that
appealed it to you know, get their sentence knocked down.
The ring that is still in prison. Uh. And he
has had an interesting life uh in prison apparently when

(39:06):
you have enough money, like prison isn't that bad because
he can sort of pay for protection and pay for well,
you know, not as bad. Um. But anyway, a few
months ago it came out that he was running a
used car dealership and to hatch Appy and a Christmas
tree lot in the Bay Area and it would have
been legal to save for one one caveat. Apparently from

(39:31):
from what I heard, he totally could run as many
businesses as he wished if he literally just went to
the warden and said, hey, is it okay? If I
do this, I'll still be in prison, is it? And
he just didn't. It was just too much of a
pill to ask if it was okay. And so well,
he had a note where he was asking for permission,
but he forgot to send us to the warden. There's

(39:54):
actually a forty eight hours apparently about his life in prison.
Or he keeps getting caught with pornography and cell phones. Uh.
And he bought a mansion on the coast um, which
you know, I don't know what you do with the
mansion on the coast when you're in prison, but I
guess if you ever get out, you got a place
to go just to have just in case, you know,

(40:17):
it comes to the mansion is a treat, you know exactly. Um. So, okay,
he's still in prison today, that's right. Yeah, the ring leader, Frank,
he's up for a parole here and again in I
hope he gets it. Dude. I was gonna say, Matt
if if if you've got a lot of questions, I

(40:38):
bet we could we could actually write to him. I mean,
I would love to get him on an episode of
pot Yourself a gun. I want to ask if you
like the Sopranos and uh, you know what he because
like these guys, like especially the ring leader, um, reminds
me so much of like Chris Malta Sante with like

(40:58):
like kind of like if if this is like if
Chris were born rich and but he's still you know,
like he he could have taken over his dad's like
oil and you know, train business or whatnot, but he
really just wanted to be a screenwriter. And it's just
like it's got the same vibes. He's like the spelling errors,
Like it feels like he's gonna write in his notebook

(41:19):
at some point, I must be loyal to my capol. Oh,
why Ellie, did you ever feel like nothing good was
ever gonna happen to you? It's like, yeah. It also
reminds me of the Scottish Prince and Monty Python and
the Holy Grail who's like Father just wants him to
like be the you know, the Lord of the Swamp

(41:40):
or what it was like. But Father, but Father, I
just want to I just want to to sing, you know,
like and then that's kind of what he just wants
to sing, or like do a weird, fucked up, messy
heist and you know, get caught for it. And I
bet you his notebook at some point has like a
whole passage just that just says like they say, they're

(42:00):
no two people on this earth exactly alike. But how
did they know that? For sure, it's impossible to tell
even with computers, which is exactly what Chrismal said. So
another weird little wrinkle of the story is that one

(42:21):
of the judge there's a three judge panel, uh that
approved their appeal saying that they'd be eligible for parole.
This was eighty One of the people on the panel
was William Newsom, who is actually Gavin Newsom's father, the
governor of California. For now, no, please please vote no.

(42:42):
Uh yeah. And then after we retired, Judge, that's all
I was trying to say, go ahead, Judge Newsom became
an outspoken advocate for the Chili Chilli kidnappers, saying that
this notorious crime was just a quote, a youthful stunt
that had no vicious aspect to it. Okay, your honor,
I guess we've all been there. Apparently, listen, we've all
done it. That's the thing about you know, these are kids, man.

(43:04):
Sometimes kids, you know, they get law ambunctious. You know,
they steal a sweater from you know, from Macy's, and
then they get arrested. And sometimes they kidnap a bust
full of kids and then have an entire plane hist
that they're going to do right after. That's an escape
math method. It's just normal. Right. There's an episode of

(43:26):
Wonder Years where this happens. Yeah, and uh, I I heard,
uh this is a true fact. I heard that these happened.
So frequently. That's the reason that school buses don't have seatbelts. Uh,
that's at least what I heard. Oh, yeah, that's absolutely true.
M will hopefully we don't get letters about that one.

(43:48):
But but you guys are like, it does seem strange.
Though I'm sure a lot of members of the public
assumed that someone might be greasing the wheels of justice here,
was there any speculation that maybe this guy was getting
bribed or something because that that I mean he has Yeah,

(44:09):
they've been in jail. He was in jail for forty
years or something like that. You know, at that point, sure,
why not let him out? Yeah, so he's from from prison.
He has been directing three businesses, the Ambria Acres Christmas
Tree Farm down the road from Creston, California, the Little
Bear Creek gold mine near Lake Tahoe, and a used

(44:30):
car business with a warehouse filled with vehicles. And to
hatch it, I'm sorry, he has a gold mine. He
literally owns and operates a gold mine. It's not a euphemism.
I love and he Actually the reason he got caught
was Michael Bianki, who managed aspects of all three businesses,
injured his back, neck and shoulder in the Little Bear
Creek mine. Uh he needed surgery and uh Woods refused

(44:53):
to pay, and so he had to file a claim
with the State Workers compon board. Um. And that's basically
how he sort of got caught running all these businesses
because he sued the and he sued that guy for
like over a million dollars or something. Yeah, he also
has had four wives in prison. Um. What relations are

(45:14):
tough in prison? Super uncommon? I don't think. I think
there's a lot of like you know, um, example, it
has a serial killers, like people to become fans of
the person and letters. That's a long time man, I
mean forty years. You know, who knows what the circumstances are.
You right, it sounds like the perfect husband. He's stuck

(45:34):
in prison. He has enough money to buy you a
mansion and sure only have to see him when you
want to. Like, that sounds like a pretty good deal.
It's it's a very good point, a good deal for
him to dude. Sometimes you just want to be free
and hang with your boys in prison and then occasionally
get that conjugal trailer exactly. So, I mean, you know,
if you just look at the math of it, that's
uh one every ten year average, So yeah, I mean

(45:59):
I guess it makes sense you could just every ten
years or just like, I'm sorry, babe, I just uh,
our letters are getting you know, less and less filled
with passion. I'm kind of faking it now and I
can't be tied down, Hunt. I'm a free spirit. Yeah, literally,
just in prison, I can't be typed. I gotta likee
going on. Oh man, so Vince, And I'm sorry if

(46:21):
I if I missed it. I mean, is the motivation
literally this idea of of making a real life event
that that can then be the inspiration for a movie
or was there more? Mean they literally just wanted more cars,
Like that was the whole That was the whole thing.
They wanted more cars, and like you know, as a submotivation,
as a submotive, uh, the cars were maybe going to

(46:43):
finance the younger brothers movies, which I'm sure he made
would have made lots of if he hadn't gone to prison.
I mean, it really was just like he was trying
to keep up with the Joneses. He was just like,
oh man, you know, these guys are so cool, and
I got all these better cars and I got the
Jaguar because he couldn't he couldn't afford the insurance, right, Yeah,

(47:06):
and so he's like, you know, who can afford the insurance? Um,
the state that funds schools doesn't. Doesn't a trust fund
usually kick in when you're like in your twenties. I
had to be how he was like, because usually it's
tied to like when you're eighteen or something. I would think,
so when you become when you become a non minor,
when you because I was about to say a major,

(47:27):
that's not a thing an adult, but yeah, I mean
I just don't understand. Maybe his parents, you know, they
certainly can write, you know, caveats into it where it
requires certain things like you gotta not live in the house.
Maybe you gotta find your own way, get a career,
go to college. Otherwise, you know, kids just become garbage.
I mean, I think that was even a thing in
the Sopranos with Meadow, where they wouldn't give her her

(47:47):
trust fund because she was threatening to go to Europe
or whatever instead of staying in college. And then finally
they relent, like, you know what, we trust you to
make the right decision. Here's your trust fund. Yeah, and
and uh, I also think that, like, you gotta give
kudos to the parents for having foresight for knowing that, like,

(48:08):
let's wait a little bit. Let's make the age thirty
for the student collecting his trust fund, because I just
have a sneaking suspicion he's gonna do like a bus kidnapping.
And uh, you know they're really doctor saying this, right,
and when when the kid's born. Yeah, like I've been

(48:28):
delivering babies for a while, this kid is a bus thief. Yeah,
this kid, Uh, just wait till thirty for the million dollars.
You will thank me later. And I'm sure they did.
They were just like, all right, well that's our money. Still.
I mean it's interesting, you know, because there's there's this
moment then where like it's so common that it's almost

(48:48):
the troope, right, the idea like there's this kid who
has money, but they can't get it, you know, until
they satisfy some conditions and they reach a certain age.
And so I just have this image of like the
errants getting hit up for money and they say, look,
we have a trust fund for you, but you have
to be a little bit more mature to get it.

(49:09):
And his responses, I'll show you mature. Yeah, he should
have just had to go back and do all the
grades over again, like Billy Madison. I forgot about that one.
So what's what's your takeaway from this, Vince? Like, has
this inspired you towards a life of crime or do

(49:31):
you feel more cautionary to I am going to kidnap
more children? Um? No, Yeah, it's I feel like the
root of all of these crimes is generally, you know,
seeing other people with better stuff than you and being like, hey,
I want to do that. Um. And that's pretty much all.
There's not a lot more deep thought that went into it.

(49:54):
I don't think there's a line from a Mr. Show
sketch Coupon the movie where they're like green lighting this
movie about this coupon and there's a guy that they
think it's gonna bomb, and one of the exacts goes,
I swear to God, if I have to go from
being rich, super rich to just rich, I'll kill myself. Um.
And I think that that's something that I really is.
Once you go, once you hit a certain point, anything

(50:16):
any back pedaling is a tantamount to utter failure. Um.
And you really just measure yourself against everybody else. I mean,
it's honestly a life lesson to just you know, be
happy with what you got and not like measure success
or happiness based on other people's ship because it is
a losing proposition, because there will always be someone with

(50:37):
more than you. Uh. And this is exactly I think
that the takeaway from the story, as far as I'm concerned,
my entire happiness on how many five star uh, five
stars in a review we get on our podcast events
and um, and then I compare it to other people's
podcasts and uh, and then I just cry, you know,
I mean, I know there's there's some pretty good reas

(51:00):
church into the comparative level of happiness. And one of
the things that is counterintuitive to some people is if
you are making like, let's say you're making thirty thousand
dollars a year and everybody you work with is making
twenty nine thousand dollars a year, just that little difference
will make you feel pretty great according to like, according

(51:22):
to psychology, and then uh, in comparison or in contrast, rather,
if you're making two million dollars a year and you
know that everybody work with is making like two million
and two hundred dollars. You're you're in the depths of
despair and you're like, what have I done to deserve
this tragic injustice? Well, and there's also a level at

(51:45):
which like you're not actually like tangibly happier. Um, there's like,
I think, what is it, like, seventy grand a year.
I think is like a pretty decent depending on where
you live, A decent benchmark for like, this is enough
money for you to have the things that you want
and the things that you need and to not you know,
go batship with it, but also just to kind of
live a nice, measured, happy life. And then once you

(52:05):
get above that, that's can you start getting into the
more money, more problems proposition of wealth. You know? Yeah,
I know someone who um complained. Who I know someone
who was on a canceled NBC sitcom who keeps complaining
about their costar making more money when this person made

(52:27):
a million dollars for being a side character a million
dollars and complaining that the co star got a million
point too. And I was just like, you're never allowed
to talk to me again. Just don't complain about money
like that is not going to that that is just
that's insane just because they got a million dollars it

(52:47):
was canceled. You should tell them about the school bus solution.
That's what I'm gonna tell them. It's like, you want
to earn that extra point to school bus their kids
and choo Chilla who need kidnapping. There's no school bus
solution to a spiritual problem. And I think that's that's
the lesson here and one of the other lessons perhaps

(53:09):
when the primary takeaways is to immediately check out Pod
Yourself a Gun. Uh, Vince, thank you for taking us
on this journey. And I just behind the scenes, I
was checking out pod Yourself a Gun. Uh My rider died.
The one and only Noel Brown has been on the
on the show. In fact, No, what did you guys

(53:30):
talk about on that episode? Well, it was like I
think we talked about this. Off are the four of us.
But I've found Pod Yourself a Gun literally, just because
I needed to fill the holes within me that that
can only be filled with Sopranos content. And I you know,
I rewatched the show like several times a year, and
I saw a meme that kind of sums me up
where it's like, well, just finished rewatching The Sopranos. Guess

(53:51):
it's time to watch the Sopranos. Um. It's just it
beets become this kind of comfort thing for me, even
though it's you know, it's a very tense and anxiety
build show. But I I so once you know what
what what it's doing and where it's going, I don't
think it affects you the same way. I find it
to be like really like calming and comforting. So I
rewatched it constantly, and I was looking for podcasts and
there really aren't a ton of them out there, and

(54:13):
y'alls came up and it was a clever name, obviously,
and so I checked it out. And then it turned
out that like some of our colleagues from The Daily
Zeitgeist and from our l A crew had been guests.
So I literally reached out to Anna host Night and
asked if she'd introduced me, like literally, I was just
like a fan of the show, and she did, and
y'all were kind enough to have me on UM to
talk about season five, episode one, the Two Tony's, which

(54:36):
is the one where all the old timers are getting
out of prison, like this wave of like you know,
incarcerations that happened I guess like in the seventies or
something like that, and they're all kind of getting Now.
He got Feature Lamana, and he got Tony Blondetto, which
is Tony's cousin played by Steve Bushemy, and then there's
a handful of others. But yeah, that's what we talked about.
And we talked about A j being kind of an insufferable,

(54:58):
awful young you know, Rascal, that's the word fails son.
I love that. I think I've only heard you guys
say that. And also a terrible drummer. That was my
biggest point that I think I may and if anyone
walked away with anything that I felt strongly is that
JJJJ is a horrible, horrible drummer. There's nothing nothing more
insufferable than someone playing drums at you while you're trying

(55:19):
to talk to them and not even doing a good job.
It's just it's it's the worst. And then watching him
get attacked by a bear. And as as Matt said earlier,
if you want to if you want to help our
guys here, uh feel a little better, not rob as
school bus. You can make a difference with a five
star review on your podcast platform of choice and uh

(55:40):
you can also check out You can also check out
Vince and Matt's other podcasts. You're you're making us look bad.
You guys are doing a lot here. Well, the Prodcast
film drunk Prodcast has been going on for a long
long time. We're all about quantity over quality. Yes, yes,
you just keep loading up the content slop and you

(56:00):
just let the piggies feed. I love it well and
then a ringing recommendation of a million percent and then
you know, this story ended up being a real epic.
But you have a story about you, you tease to
the top of the show about some kind of bumbling
mafia brothers. I propose that we do that as a
separate episode, just the two of us and Max, and

(56:22):
make this a trilogy. You know what, Let's let's go
for a three for because then I think, yeah, that
that with three is the smallest number you need to
make a list. This technically a list, so we could
call it a franchise. And we can't wait to hear
your stories about bone headed mafio. So it just hit

(56:43):
me speaking about bone headed crimes and criminals in general,
it just hit me that some of our friends from
this story might be listening to the podcast today. I
don't know what the stances on podcasting in prison, but yeah,
it's true. It's true. So we can't wait to hear

(57:03):
what you think of pod yourself a gun, a film
drunk broadcast. We also can't wait to hear your takes
on some of history's dumbest crimes. As always, you can
find us at our uh we got a lot of stuff. Now,
let's see, We've got the Facebook page, Facebook page ridiculous historians.
Just pop it over to Facebook, type that in and
I think you have to answer like a basic question

(57:25):
like one of our names, or just say something to
let us know you're not a Russian bot and you're in.
We now have a working email address. Swear to God,
are you still not getting it? Ben? We gotta figure
that part out so forward, I will well. Also like
they also go straight to my spam folders, so I
don't see them readily, but I gotta. We need to
start doing listener mail episodes to give us a reason

(57:46):
to search for them, because our company has quite a
restrictive spam filter. But we do get them, we swear.
So please write to us at ridiculous at I heeart
media dot com, and and and we're gonna get that fixed.
So so Ben's getting them too soon. And then I think,
do for a listener, Maile episode, I bet you we
have a good little crop of of letters, and Vince

(58:06):
that we usually don't tell people this until the very
end of guest spots, but we really tried to dress
up the show for you here by helping you avoid
our nemeses. This show does have a nemesis. Yeah, he
pops in unexpectedly and gives us pedantic history quizzes. It's

(58:29):
probably coming back in a week or two. What do
you say? You know? I think so we we can,
you know, we are able to summon him, but we
we don't want to leave off without delivering on a
on a promise that we made. Vince, gotta put you
on the spot. We all need mafia nicknames, if you
don't mind. Oh jeez, hey, I'm gonna call you the beard,
uh because it's real creative. You got that beard? Hear?

(58:55):
I like it? Walk us through the logic here? Yeah? Yeah,
that was what's that? I said? That was the logic?
The logic was you see a beer it's sort of
like driving around naming signs that you see are reading.
You know now that that you also have you go
deeper with these. Don't sell yourself short, Vince. What about Ben? Uh?
You know we're gonna call him, Uh damn, what was

(59:17):
that scaban? Uh? We'll just call him to tone because
you know he's like, what was the bowling for? Was
a bowling for soup? I don't know. Does he look
like the guy from Bowling for Soup? I don't know.
Isn't that you know, like Benny two tone? I like it? Yeah,

(59:42):
we just need one from Max MAXI. You know, he's
we call him Max Pause because he's you know, he's
a puppy with big pause. That's what we're talking about.
I love Uh. Yeah, that's better that Max. My one
for you was gonna be a little gigante. So I
think backs pauses is much better. Well, good safe, good catch,
because we got close to forgetting about that, and we

(01:00:04):
would have gotten some angry let We probably wouldn't know.
You never know, but Vincent and Matt, thank you so
much for for joining us. Where can folks find you
on the internet outside of your podcasts? Yeah? As always
on up Rocks on the Senior Film and Culture writer,
dropping lots of takes over there, and uh yeah, and
Twitter Vince at Vince Mancini and you can find me

(01:00:25):
on Twitter at matt leeb um or on Instagram at
Matt leave Jokes and so yeah, check that out. Matt.
Don't get don't get mad at me for saying this,
but I did go check out some of your stand
up on YouTube. We're talking about that off air. Oh yeah, yeah,
people can people can still find that as well. Please, yeah,
go ahead and go to YouTube and type in Matt

(01:00:48):
leeb and then eventually you'll see some stand up videos
and uh, you know, go ahead and watch them and
tell your friends to watch them. I got lots of jokes.
I did had this one joke about it. Mouth Billy
Bassie'll love it. You don't want to know what I
do with it. You'll have to You'll have to hear
for yourself. To hear for yourself, it's exploited, all right.

(01:01:09):
And you can also find Nolan me of course, uh
not just this is your show, but as individuals, that's right,
you can find me. I'm pretty much exclusively on Instagram
aside from the occasional Twitter lurking, but look me up
on Instagram at how Now Noel Brown. You can check
out my adventures on Instagram at ben Bulling b w
L I N I am. I made a decision not

(01:01:33):
to not to show some backstage misadventures today, but I
just got my eyes dilated and it is like weird.
I if I see him off today, guys, it's because
I can't fight see you um. But you can also
find me on Twitter appn Bolling hs W and as
soon as my vision returns, I'll check back into Hopefully
I'll be back by the next time we record then

(01:01:55):
for the third part of this now Prime trilogy. This
may well be our God Other three red Cut, but
I think the red cut is supposed to be pretty good.
The re cut is supposed to be pretty good because
it's not our Exorcist too. We'll see you next time, folks.

(01:02:16):
For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit the I
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your favorite shows.