September 25, 2025 • 37 mins
We’ve all been there, right? You wake up one day, and you say: “You know what? Forget work! It’s so nice outside. I want to put on a fancy hat, watch a bunch of horses run around in a circle, and gamble. Like they do in Europe.” In today's episode, Ben, Noel and Max learn how the volatile, ambitious Colonel Meriwether Lewis Clark Jr. created a little something called the Kentucky Derby.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to
(00:27):
the show, fellow Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always so
much for tuning in. Let's hear it for our number
one Horsey boy, the Main that just won't quit, our
super producer, mister Max Williams. Main.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Congratulations, Ben, you finally have after four and a half years,
and you hit me with one. I just don't know
how to respond on that one. The main part I
can hit you on, but the Horsey Boy, I just
yeah me Bud.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
Max is speechless for the first time ever.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Yeah he still speaks.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
No, Hey, guys, Irma Gert, it's the Kent Turkey Derby.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
Ah, yes, yeah, that is none other than mister Noel Brown.
Uh Noel, do we have a sound cue for you yet?
Speaker 3 (01:10):
Can it be that Horsey nay like from Insane in
the Membrane? You know?
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (01:19):
For this what it must be, I mean for all times.
I'm cool with that as well. I'm totally I'm more
a Horsey boy than Max to be fair be.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Wow, oh wow, I agree completely and I don't even
know what means, but I agree.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
Nobody does esa.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
We're working out Horsey Boys Uh.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
You know the horse girl phenomenon. That's the thing.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
There's shout out Shane Gillis. Uh. Folks over on this
show they call me Ben Bullen, And we've all been there.
You know. You wake up one day and you say,
you know what, forget about work. It's nice outside. I
want to put on a fancy hat. I want to
maybe drink mint jus and I want to watch a
(02:01):
bunch of panicked horses run around in a circle.
Speaker 4 (02:11):
You had me up until a nice day outside, and
then it was quite the leap to fancy hat meant
and paniced horses and a circle.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
Yeah, we're not the most fancy hat guys ourselves.
Speaker 4 (02:22):
I'm just saying, whoever came up with this as as
a wake up activity, they must have had something going on.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
I almost willing to bet we're going to talk about
exactly what that was.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
I want to set up. Yeah, it's as tad specific.
But as you said, Noel, there is an annual event
that all Americans just sort of except as normal. It's
called the Kentucky Derby. And today we're gonna learn whether
or not it is ridiculous. Spoiler it is?
Speaker 3 (02:51):
Boy? Is it ever? And what better way to start
a ridiculous.
Speaker 4 (02:57):
Topic than with an absolutely ridiculous historic name. You think
it's ridiculous, I mean, dude, the question you immediately asked
yourself is like, who is this guy related to? And
we answered that very quickly. We're talking about, of course,
none other than Colonel Merriweather Lewis Clark Junior is only
related to one of them, William Clark. But he got
(03:18):
Lewis up in there too, And I believe Lewis's first
name was Merriweather.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
You know, I didn't think about that. You are absolutely I.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
Was having to look it up.
Speaker 4 (03:26):
I'm almost positive that's the guests Merriweather, Lewis and William Clark.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
How come he's got didn't have a William in there?
His dad was William. Yeah, he really loved his boy, Merriweather.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
Yeah, this is the colonel who is the grandson of
William Clark grandson. Yes, yeah, he is perhaps known from
a semi famous Lewis and Clark expedition, which of course
informed the much more important thing Oregon Trail.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
Yeah, love it, Dysentry.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
All day, Terry Ford, the River. So this guy is
originally from Kentucky. We'll call him Junior. He is a
man of means. He wants to see the rest of
the world, and unlike most Americans at the time, he
has the ability to travel across the pond.
Speaker 4 (04:17):
Yeah, and I don't think we go on specifically what
his business was, but being a descendant of that famous line,
I imagine he was born into money.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
He was not pushed for means. You know, they weren't
sweating the spoons nor the light built in eighteen seventy two.
Our but a junior travels over to England and he
witnesses a locally famous horse race in Epsom Surrey. It's
called not the Kentucky but the Derby Steaks, and people
(04:50):
in the know usually just call it the Derby. And Max,
as we're going on, we're going to lean on you
as our sportsman expert for few of these da.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
I mean you, I wouldn't expect anything otherwise, but you know,
Kentucky Derby. I understand it. I also don't.
Speaker 4 (05:09):
Like it's kind of like one of those things like NASCAR,
where it's really easy to reduce it down to this
notion of watching people drive a car around in circles,
and it's not until you drill down into the stats
and the mechanics of it all. And like again, if
we're looking at the horse horseboy side of things, the
breeds and the prowess.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
Of these beautiful creatures.
Speaker 4 (05:31):
But as we're going to get into I don't know, man,
I can definitely get a little more behind people being
into cars than this kind of parading of these specimens.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
It's one thing to get here at the top NASCAR
has and Indie racing, Formula One racing has is quantity.
There is a lot of racing Kentucky Derby.
Speaker 3 (05:53):
I had no idea we're going to get to that.
It's like all about the day.
Speaker 4 (05:59):
It's like it's like the it's like hanging out in
the fish lot and then the Fish Concert's like moments long,
it's all.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
About the lot, barely about the concert, and folks Nola
is saying fish Phis, that's it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, not
a parking lot with fish, but a parking lot full
of people who are fans of the jam band Fish,
which I think lots of. I like a lot of
their records.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
I you know what.
Speaker 4 (06:25):
I was actually just talking with some friends last night.
I would absolutely go see the Bandfish. I never have,
but I would do it.
Speaker 3 (06:32):
There. I think they're interesting.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
Make a weekend of it. So look the original Derby
over there in Surrey. It is first run in seventeen eighty.
It continues today. For now, all we need to note
about this is that it was and is open to
all three year old horses, which sounds very young for humans,
(06:57):
but is perfect racing for race horses. This inspires Junior.
Speaker 4 (07:03):
Who, by the way, I was just looking at his
CV a little bit ben and he was known for
being a little bit touchy and had more than a
few occasions where he threatened people with guns. Yes, yeah, oddcat,
for sure. I definitely moneyed, which you know, we'll do
that to you if you're not careful. So Junior later
did travel to Perry, where he hooked up with the
(07:24):
French Jockey Club, because much like cycling, the French are ahead.
Speaker 3 (07:29):
Of the curve in this particular sport as well.
Speaker 4 (07:31):
That had been formed in eighteen sixty three, and the
French horse Boys had formed the nation's greatest horse race
up until that point, the Grand Prix de Pelis.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
Yeah, this is the premiere race for the entire country.
It's needless to say Junior is impressed. He makes it
back to the United States and he found something called
the Louisville Jockey Club and he forms this which is
kind of like a country club kind of thing, we
(08:04):
could think of it that way. And he's hoping to
raise monetary support to build racing facilities. He's walking back
into Kentucky and talking to the well healed people and
he's saying, look, they got awesome horse races in Europe.
This leads to the foundation of Churchill Downs, which is
(08:28):
named after John and Henry Churchill because they're the guys
in that meeting who donated the land for the track.
And I believe Clark lived with their family for a
time or he had a real close connection to their family.
So at first this whole.
Speaker 4 (08:47):
Enterprise was a right right out, right out of the gates,
was a phenomenal success. The horse folk from the region
would come out. It's sort of one of the only
games in town. They stood up and took notice. Unfortunately,
things did go a little bit sideways, not too far
along in this when a nouveau riche gold rush tycoon,
(09:10):
like a dude that was made his money in the
gold rush named James ben ali Hagen had a bit
of a dalliance with some gambling operations. Ben, maybe this
is this is something that you found. This is an
interesting tale.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
Oh yes, Nipun left behind James Ben Ali Hagen, Turkish
national made his money in the gold Rush, and he
ran a foul a full of sketchy gambling monopolies.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
I will, Ben, I will, all right, Well here we go.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
So it's a bit of background. It's eighteen eighty six.
There's another guy named CM White. CM White purchases like
a EP level monopoly on what they were calling pooling privileges.
That's the right to leave gamble on Kentucky Derby horse races.
Speaker 4 (10:03):
Yeah, it's funny. I still call like office pools. You know,
I got that pool that's right. I guess that is
a gambling term. Yeah, I guess it's sort of like
the ante. It's like the pile of money that everyone
contributes to and then the winner takes all right.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
Yeah yeah, just so, uh, this guy White, he pays
at the time, in eighteen eighty six, thirty thousand, six
hundred US dollars to control gambling at the emerging Kentucky Derby.
And I think we need a bit of an infletion calculator.
Speaker 4 (10:35):
Can we get a boop, Max, dude, boom, there it
is when you do it.
Speaker 3 (10:41):
A low dulcet boop of masks.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
Love when he does it? Live all right, Sue. Thirty thousand,
six hundred dollars in eighteen eighty six is equivalent to
drum roll noel, you got it.
Speaker 4 (10:57):
Oh, it's a million bucks roughly fifty million, fifty and
forty five, which still seems like a bargain to get
on the ground floor of what would ultimately be a
multimillion dollar operation. Dude anigar long term, right, I mean right,
this dude is so mafia about it. He says, okay,
I've got the rights. And he goes to every bookie
(11:20):
working at the Kentucky Derby and he says, you guys
have to pay me one hundred dollars straight up just
to work at this track, just to take bets, and
just to be clear, And this is maybe a sort
of a statement and a question. A bookie is a
book maker, and it's not inherently illegal, like there are
(11:41):
sports books operations, and so there are legal ones and
then there are illegal ones. But I think a lot
of times when people throw around bookie they're thinking about
the ones that'll like break your legs if you don't pay.
Speaker 3 (11:51):
Up, right.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
Yeah, The idea is you take bets from the general
public on any number of you usually sporting events. But
Las Vegas and Macaw get crazy with this. You make
a great point. The argument goes back to legitimacy, Like
it's totally legit and on the right side of the
(12:14):
law for there to be a bookie in say Monaco,
and you're betting on car races in Monaco. But we
had a super producer, Max, jump in for a second. Max,
you want to give us some on the street recognition
of bookies.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
Yeah, I mean, I think another big thing about bookies
because I've known some bookies. Most time they're part time bookies,
not like big time bookies. But until recently, socially America,
like sports gambling was very legal in most places in
the country. It's just illegal, right, yeah, illegal right yeah, yeah, apology,
but yeah, I.
Speaker 4 (12:50):
Just making sure because it's a little confusing and it's
still kind of a gray area where like now you're
starting to hear these ads for these sports books, and
like when you go to certain casinos they have the
section where there's all these different what they call sports books,
and it's what gets back to sort of this.
Speaker 3 (13:05):
Old timey way of doing things.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
One of the fantasy football podcasts I listened to, I'm
not giving any publicity or for advertising anyone here someone
we're talking to.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
This is brought to you by DraftKings.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
Actually no, it's not DraftKings, but one of them.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
No, no, but this is brought to you by DraftKings.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
I was listening to a fantasy football podcast and they were
talking about a specific sports book that was like there
are big lines like the only one legal in Florida.
Speaker 4 (13:30):
Right, yeah, right, that's the kind of language you're starting
to hear in this copy when we're still in this
wild West day. We talked about this very much in
our Fantasy Sports episode. So all this stuff kind of
figures in.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
And how this ties in with bookies is like, you know,
for a long time, it's like, Okay, how do you
gamble on these things? There's just a guy you knew,
like in the neighborhood, who was outside of the bar
with you.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
There's an etymology we have to get into, which is
that the in the origin story, during the day the
book makers or the book would physically write down in
a book your donation or your gamble and the odds
of a thing. So there is a reason it's called bookmaking.
(14:14):
They were literally making a.
Speaker 4 (14:15):
Book one hundred percent and just wanted to pull a
little tidbit that was news to me, or at least
a question that I had that I maybe didn't fully
have the answer to, and involves a term that you
like to throw around them, the vigoroush The way that
bookies cover these bets is by or at least more
than cover. They're covering it, I guess, because people have
(14:35):
to pay down on their bets and then they either
get their money back plus whatever the winnings is based
on the odds of the bet. The bookmakers control the odds,
and they strategically not manipulate, but they sort of have
to have knowledge of what's being bet on in such
a way that they can move the odds around to
(14:56):
attract bets, but also make sure they're covering it and
that they're able to get their commission or they're viig
or vigorous.
Speaker 3 (15:03):
Right.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
So, the folks at the Kentucky Derby during its origin story,
it was not necessarily a social nor a fashion event
it was not the met Gala or whatever. They wanted
to make money off these horses. And so when our
buddy CM White shakes down all the bookies at the
(15:32):
new Kentucky Derby, the bookies boycott. They say, we're just
not going to show up. No one can gamble, you
can't make high dollar bets over at the Derby. This
happens in eighteen eighty six. Our pal gold Rush James Hagen,
does not vibe with this. He learns he cannot place
(15:53):
a bet on his champion horse that he, in a
burst of humility, names Ben Ali, and so he says,
you know what, I'm with the bookies, I'm going to
boycott the race as well. Not one horse from my
stable will participate in your little Kentucky Derby, and we're
not gonna play ball until the bookies return. Derby leadership
(16:18):
calls his bluff. That pisses him off even more. He
goes to talk to his other horse owning friends. What's
the word for a guy who owns horses the way
you own a restaurant?
Speaker 2 (16:31):
Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
A horseboy, horseboy, horsemen?
Speaker 3 (16:38):
Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 4 (16:39):
I'm sticking with horseboy for just about everything pertaining to
the topic because I just love it so much. This
was bad news, right, This was like borderline devastating because
everyone starts to join in with these boycotts, other people
that have interest in the book, making nests of it all,
other owners, other you know, gamblers, et cetera. And while
the bookies did return the fire year in eighteen eighty seven,
(17:01):
the damage had kind of been done at least up
until some changes took place.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
Yeah, this pattern continues until Churchill Downs goes so far
Churchill Downhill that it is going to be closed and
bankrupt around nineteen oh three. So it gets sold off
and a new crew steps in another colonel of course. Yeah,
(17:29):
his name's Matt Wynn. He's also from Louisville. And Churchill
Downs manages to repair its reputation. It becomes the number
one race for three year old thoroughbreds here in the
United States.
Speaker 3 (17:44):
So let's just say that you're a jockey or what
do you say, a.
Speaker 4 (17:48):
Horse lord, you know, the horse lord's fun and you
got a nagger affiliate or stallion that wins over there
at the Kentucky Derby. Well, I mean, wouldn't you want
to keep going?
Speaker 1 (18:00):
Why stop? There, says everybody with a gambling problem. After
winning the Derby, horse owners start sending their horses in
the US to compete in two other races, the Preakness
Steaks in Baltimore and then the Belmont Steaks in Elmont,
New York.
Speaker 3 (18:19):
In Belmont, New York, why don't they call it the
Elmont Steaks. That doesn't make any sense to me.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
It's a whole thing.
Speaker 3 (18:25):
Also, the Preakness. Doesn't that sound like a thing you'd
say about something that was really rad Like that is
the Preakness, The absolutely ruickness, you know.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
Right, like the ability of having or the capability of
having the peak of a These always strikes me like
Jinko's are Preakness nineteen nineties jeans peak Preakness.
Speaker 4 (18:43):
Indeed, So these other races were pre existing, but it
was just kind of like the success of the Kentucky
Derby kind of elevated them in a way because they
were the only other games in town.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
Yeah. Yeah, they're pretty profitable races. In nineteen nineteen, there's
a horse named Sir Barton who is owned by a
human named John E. Madden, and Madden is also from Kentucky. Anyway,
Sir Barton wins all three of these races, the Kentucky Derby,
(19:15):
the Preakness Stakes, and the Belmont Steaks. This means the
Guy was the first triple Crown horse, a term we've
all heard before, but the term itself isn't used until
more than a decade later.
Speaker 3 (19:29):
That's right.
Speaker 4 (19:29):
A second horse named Gallant Fox also won all three.
Speaker 3 (19:34):
Is this what they call the triple crown?
Speaker 1 (19:36):
This is the triple crown because Gallant Fox inspired the
sports writer of the time, Charles Hatten, to popularize the
term triple crown. And this launches huge public interest, not
just in the States, but across the world, right, because
we learned this from England, and we learned this from France.
(19:58):
And there's a dark side because everyone in the US
is at this time fueled with a growing interest in
the pseudoscience of eugenics and social Darwinism, and they started
asking each other in certain circles whether it was possible
to breed a quote unquote super horse, and.
Speaker 3 (20:20):
If we can do it with horses, maybe we can
do it with people.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (20:24):
It's weird, dude, The idea of like observing these specimens
being put through their paces. It just kind of like, well,
you're gonna get to it, Ben, I mean, I don't
mean to scoop it, but you know, with athletes that
put themselves through the ringer, you know, whether it be
training or drug enhancement, they know what they're doing, right, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
Yeah, we'll get to it. Lets let's talk a little bit.
Let's talk a little bit about the Triple Crown.
Speaker 4 (20:47):
Since nineteen thirty one, the Triple Crown races have happened
in a specific order, for you win the Derby, then
the Preakness, and then the Belmont. First live radio broadcast
of the Derby came on May sixteenth, nineteen twenty five,
where you would have just had some absolute rapid fire
mid Atlantic follow.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
By Babada's Charlie Brown left, tors bang, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 4 (21:13):
We're gonna get into some really fun horse names, but
it just it's become such a joke in the best
possible way, these absurd horse names. And that's what I
think of when I think of the Kentucky Derby. Is
this that cartoonish kind of coverage.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
Right, And if we fast forward, the first television coverage
aired on May seventh, nineteen forty nine, that was regional
and was pre recorded. The first national television coverage airs
on May third, nineteen fifty two. This feeds public interest.
This is great for the bookies. This is great for
(21:48):
the people who own and sell the horses. In nineteen
fifty four, just a few years later, the official prize
they call it a purse for first place, exceeds one
hundred thousand US dollars. In nineteen fifty four, if we
can throw to an inflation calculator, Max, give us a
(22:11):
wildly different boop.
Speaker 3 (22:18):
Oh my god, that's relaxing, Rex.
Speaker 4 (22:21):
Yeah, we got around one point two million dollars in
today's dollars.
Speaker 1 (22:27):
Yeah, one billion, nearly one point three Yeah, one million,
two hundred thou nine and twenty one dollars and ninety
three cents. Uh. This is a big business, and like
all big businesses with serious money on the line, serious
problems come to light and you set it up so well.
In the human athletes then and now fall victim to
(22:52):
accusations of doping, and horses are no different. Here's another
horse name. We love a horse named Dancers image in
nineteen sixty eight.
Speaker 4 (23:04):
That's right, Dancer's image in nineteen sixty eight was found
to contain the horse contained traces of an anti inflammatory
painkiller called phenal beautazone.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
Yeah, unlike human athletes, our equine friends don't possess the
ability to consent to being doped or drugged, and they
don't have the capacity to understand what's being forced upon them.
This is just the beginning with issues surrounding animal racing,
from camels to dogs to horses. People oppose this.
Speaker 4 (23:38):
Do you remember there was a I think it was
an HBO television series about horse racing that happened a
handful of years ago, and it was canceled very quickly,
maybe even before the season ended, because of it was
just rampant abuse of the animals, because they were trying
to make it as real as possible, and the only
way to make it as real as possible is to
treat the animals with a lot of, you know, brutality.
Speaker 1 (24:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (24:01):
The show is called Luck and it was canceled due
to the deaths of three horses during its production. This
was a Dustin Hoffman vehicle and Pete got in the mix.
Speaker 3 (24:12):
And so I'm saying, if that's what they're doing in a.
Speaker 4 (24:15):
TV show to paint an accurate picture of this era,
what must.
Speaker 3 (24:21):
Have been like you know, in the era.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
Yeah, definitely an odor in the court, which is also
a name of a real life racehorse. Look. Just last year,
twenty twenty four, a journalist named Kalia Richardson from Rolling
Stone dove into the controversy surrounding racehorses. She said, quote
corruption and a witted all costs mentality have long been
(24:48):
a part of horse racing, but in recent years that
culture has led to dire consequences. The FBI got involved, folks.
More than two dozen people were charged with secretly distributing
drugs to race horses in twenty twenty and in twenty
twenty three, not that long ago, twelve horses. A dozen
(25:12):
horses died at Churchill Downs immediately before and after the race.
Speaker 4 (25:18):
And Ben, you pointed out in your research that the
New York Times documentary Broken Horses is a good watch
if you want to dig a little deeper. Plus, we
have explorations of this on our other show stuff they
don't want you to know, along with our pal Matt Frederick.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
And our pal Dylan, the Tennessee pal Fagan.
Speaker 3 (25:34):
Yes, indeed also a bit of a horse point.
Speaker 1 (25:43):
So we didn't want to leave you without a dope,
hoof to trot to dress hodge is weird. A lot
of people comment about the Kentucky Derby in terms of
social like social import right, So when you are looking
at the derby and the actual derby, by the way,
(26:06):
the actual horse racing is a very small part of
the modern experience. A lot of times the media is
going to focus on the fashion, the eye popping hats. Noel,
this is where you and I learned about something called fascinators.
Speaker 3 (26:23):
Yeah, not to be confused with terrifiers. That's very different.
It's his own thing. Fascinators are a super posh accessory.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
Yeah, yeah, it's weird. Imagine the fanciest hat pin or
headband ever. It's a hairclip times a million. They're colorful,
they're vibrant. People wear them to stand out at the
Kentucky Derby, even if they're not wearing a hat.
Speaker 4 (26:51):
Can I just say that I really love that National
Geographic is commenting on this as though they're like observing.
Speaker 3 (26:57):
Like animals in the wild, and not the horses.
Speaker 4 (27:00):
I'm talking about the people, you know, and these weird
mating rituals like peacocking around with their bizarre hats. I'm
sure we saw some like some of those crazy taxidermy
hat type situations that we've discussed I believe with our
buddy aj Bahamas.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
Yeah, yeah, good callback, Noel. This reminds me of being
in college and looking at anthropological satire like the Nasserrema.
Speaker 3 (27:26):
Dude, I love that. Yeah, I talk about that any
recent episode of stuff. They don't want you to know.
Let's not spoil it.
Speaker 4 (27:32):
It's just a it's a sociological deep dive that will
tickle you satire.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
We hope we also know that sombreros are common at
the Kentucky Derby.
Speaker 3 (27:44):
Yeah, that threw me a little bit.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
Yeah, I mean it's a type of hat.
Speaker 3 (27:48):
It is a type of hat.
Speaker 4 (27:49):
But I mean, are we talking like Mexican sombreros or
is there is that not.
Speaker 3 (27:54):
Like a bit a culturally appropriate of but maybe I'm I.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
Mean it's more surface area port, more flowery stuff and
ribbons on it. These people are walking around with full
floral arrangements on your shirts.
Speaker 3 (28:08):
I guess it's a good point.
Speaker 4 (28:10):
Also, they're also walking around being intensely white and the
same they're.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
Also appropriating the earlier races in England and France.
Speaker 3 (28:20):
Not to mention Yeah, No, it's a good point this.
Speaker 4 (28:23):
I won't be too pedantic about it, just that when
I saw some breras that threw me for a bit
of a loop.
Speaker 3 (28:27):
We also have a term that I've seen.
Speaker 4 (28:31):
It's one of those better Minehoff things in literature, A
good bit recently, the idea of a close which can
just be described like as a bunch of things like
a tide ribbon under your chin would be a closeh
But it's also here, very specifically, a style of accessor.
Speaker 1 (28:48):
Yeah, like a bucket hat, a pillbox hat. This goes
so deep it could be an episode all its own.
We're probably not the ones. We're not the have dashers
you're looking for. We can tell you for anybody who
just asked, wait, I'm a guy, what do I wear
the Kentucky Derby, we can tell you can wear a
(29:11):
bowler hat once upon a time known as a Derby hat.
Speaker 4 (29:16):
Yea the Brown Derby in Los Angeles, famous Hollywood hot
spot in the golden age of cinema.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
Yeah, you can rock a pork pie here in the States.
Over in Louisville, Kentucky. You can wear a fedora for
the Kentucky Derby people won't be mad at you. The
custom hats are apparently quite expensive. There's a Kentucky Derby
Museum milliner named Jenny Fanisdale who told Business Insider that
(29:50):
people pay upwards of five hundred to six hundred dollars
US for a custom hat that they only wear once.
That seems like a lot of money for a one
use thing, but who are we to judge?
Speaker 4 (30:06):
I have to say something just to correct myself, the
word klosh. I was totally wrong about what it was.
I knew i'd seen it, But you know what it
also is, Ben. It's the thing that you put over
food for the big reveal the domes. It's called a klosh.
I'm sorry. I said it was a bunch of ribbons,
and that was its own thing that you already mentioned
as well. But a klosh is that dome thing with
(30:28):
the little handle that you pull off to reveal the
fancy chicken or whatever.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
I love it. And now, as we're wrapping up the
history of the Kentucky Derby, which is really a history
of Americans or Yanks trying to catch up with the British,
we could not picture a better ending than giving you
some of our favorite kooky racehorse names. I love goat Zapper,
(30:55):
I love po too.
Speaker 3 (31:00):
Yeah, tell us about that one.
Speaker 4 (31:01):
I believe there was a fun typo situation that led
to that name.
Speaker 1 (31:04):
Yeah. So this is a horse from the seventeen hundreds,
and his owner asked the kid working at the stables
to write the horse's name down. The horse was called Potatoes.
That's what he responded to. The kid wrote pot and
then wrote the letter O eight times, and the owner
(31:28):
loved it, and so now the horse's name is historically
po two.
Speaker 3 (31:34):
It's like one of those like you're trying to, you know,
make it hard for people to find you on social media,
and so you put like a very specific number of
like o's or i's or whatever. Have we talked about?
Hoof hearted? Hoof hearted?
Speaker 1 (31:46):
I love who hearted? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (31:48):
Who heard?
Speaker 1 (31:48):
Can you say it five times?
Speaker 3 (31:49):
I don't want to. I'm not going to do it.
Speaker 4 (31:51):
Okay, who farted? That's how you say. It's all about
where he put the em fastus. And just just to
crib a little bit from Britannica here, at firstance, they
say hoof hearted seemed like a charming and appropriate.
Speaker 3 (32:03):
Name for an equine friend.
Speaker 4 (32:05):
But if you say it five times fast as you
pointed out, and you'll realize it's a clever dublo tendre
that made it past jockey club sensors.
Speaker 3 (32:11):
And that's a big part of this whole horse naming game.
Speaker 4 (32:15):
Got another one, are uh? And then I also some
more modern ones. I found a minute ago. Let's see
if I can find it.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
Oh, I love ben Dover, no pun left behind. I
love sofa king fast. Get it sofa space king space fast,
but say it quickly.
Speaker 4 (32:36):
That's a good old gag there, like a sofa king stupid. Also,
it's fine, We've got no souper. No, It's just it's
just an old gang. It's like it's where you like
write it down and then you ask someone to say
it over and over again, and then they end up saying,
I am so fuck gang stupid. You know, it's like
a it's a gag. It's a goof classic no soup
for you from the peak times of Seinfeld. We've got
(33:01):
bodacious tatas from nineteen eighty five.
Speaker 1 (33:05):
Let's see, we've got Anita Bath, We've got Hugh Jass,
We've got Chester drawers.
Speaker 4 (33:12):
Yeah, these are all Bart Simpson prank phone calls. Basically
Branjelina from two thousand and five, Peak Brad and Angelina time,
what am I chopped?
Speaker 3 (33:21):
Liver? All one on one word.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
I like the ones that are like a sentence.
Speaker 4 (33:27):
Oh not everything, yeah, from two thousand and eight. We
have one, just so, where's the beef?
Speaker 1 (33:34):
We have some that are pushing the limits. And I
want to give a shout out to ideal horse name,
who seems very into this. I was not aware of,
you guys that there is literally a horse called maya
enormous boot.
Speaker 3 (33:52):
Yeah. Yeah, and we couldn't.
Speaker 4 (33:55):
We couldn't end today's episode without talking about Panty Raid
Panti of course.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
Yeah, put some respect on his name. Midnight Charger, ghost Zapper.
We got Max coming in.
Speaker 3 (34:05):
Hot, all right.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
So, as there always is for these things, there is
of course a random horse name generator.
Speaker 3 (34:12):
Love it guy.
Speaker 2 (34:14):
You guys want to here's someone's like.
Speaker 1 (34:15):
Yeah, play the game. This is like, uh, this is
like when I was reading weird words from that reference word.
Speaker 2 (34:22):
So I'm going to say the name. You tell me
what the horse looks like or like sounds like here
are something. We got a majestic mirage.
Speaker 1 (34:31):
It's clearly a horse.
Speaker 3 (34:34):
Wait, what are you asking, Max, you're asking it to
describe the horse.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
Yeah, what what do you think? Why why would we
name this horse?
Speaker 4 (34:39):
I couldn't possibly answer that. I have no frame of
reference for any name to horse ratio.
Speaker 1 (34:44):
There's no logic or reason.
Speaker 3 (34:46):
Yeah to this, I think that's the point.
Speaker 2 (34:48):
How about Thunderbolt Tango.
Speaker 3 (34:51):
Maybe he's got like a yeah, a bit of a stripe.
Speaker 1 (34:53):
That horse has a tank top, it loves the savannah bananas,
and it probably does scratch offs.
Speaker 4 (35:00):
I'm also picturing it as being the kind of little
pony that like a cowboy might ride, maybe with like
a lightning streak stripe along its side.
Speaker 3 (35:06):
Now I'm thinking of just race cars. I don't know, last.
Speaker 2 (35:08):
One worst one, and I got velvet Nebula's.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
Oh oh luscious fur. I would say, uh, probably machine
night rider.
Speaker 3 (35:20):
Bit of achine.
Speaker 1 (35:21):
Yeah, yeah, it's a fun to pet.
Speaker 2 (35:23):
I think I'm gonna use that nickname now, going for it,
but for something very different.
Speaker 3 (35:27):
Was it again?
Speaker 4 (35:28):
Velvet velvet Nebula, Velvet Nebula, Yeah, because I'm also now
thinking of space stuff.
Speaker 3 (35:33):
I'm thinking of inper.
Speaker 1 (35:35):
NASA for sure, first horse on the Moon. I am
super into it. Hey, hey, Max, you're gonna use Velvet
Nebula as your new persona.
Speaker 2 (35:45):
I think I am, and you can be my starry Strider.
Speaker 3 (35:49):
That's really sweet. What can I be?
Speaker 2 (35:51):
You can be my moon shadow dancer.
Speaker 3 (35:53):
Oh I love that, Thank you so love it.
Speaker 1 (35:55):
That's very uh, that's very Van Morrison. Right, marvelous night.
Speaker 3 (35:59):
For moon dances doing jazz hands.
Speaker 1 (36:02):
We don't even have time to get into the traditional
cuisine of the Kentucky Derby, but we do have time
to thank you so much for tuning in, friends and neighbors,
fellow ridiculous historians. We're gonna call it a day. Thank
you as always to our super producer, Velvet Nebula. Max.
(36:22):
We're gonna use your horse name from now on.
Speaker 3 (36:25):
Bet are you talking, by the way, are you talking
about the Hot Brown?
Speaker 4 (36:29):
There's some funny dishes associated with the Oh my goodness,
but look at hop, y'all, it's worth it.
Speaker 3 (36:36):
And if if it's if you're.
Speaker 4 (36:37):
Familiar with other big, big, big money type of legacy
events like the Masters where they've got these famous pimento
cheese sandwiches or whatever. Oh yeah, I've never had one
and I grew up there, but yeah, the Hot Brown
classic Kentucky open face sandwich. It's just turkey and bacon
and some sort of gravy it looks like.
Speaker 1 (36:57):
And big thanks as well to Alex Williams who compose
this banking track. Big thanks to aj Bahamas, Jacobs, Doctor
Rachel Big, Spinach, Lance Oh and our new friend Ross
bettish Man.
Speaker 3 (37:10):
Ross is so cool I hope to have him back
again Talk ninety some.
Speaker 4 (37:13):
He literally brought in the scope of the show time
wise with his very presence.
Speaker 3 (37:18):
Thanks to you as well. Ben, This is a great one.
Speaker 4 (37:20):
Thanks for bringing this and doing all the research on
the Kentucky Derby.
Speaker 1 (37:24):
We'll see you next time. Anita Bath, Dixie Enormous, jack Niehoff,
Pat Mind, Wildie Stroker, and of course Buck Naked Hand.
Speaker 3 (37:33):
We'll see you next time, folks.
Speaker 4 (37:42):
For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to
(00:27):
the show, fellow Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always so
much for tuning in. Let's hear it for our number
one Horsey boy, the Main that just won't quit, our
super producer, mister Max Williams. Main.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Congratulations, Ben, you finally have after four and a half years,
and you hit me with one. I just don't know
how to respond on that one. The main part I
can hit you on, but the Horsey Boy, I just
yeah me Bud.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
Max is speechless for the first time ever.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Yeah he still speaks.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
No, Hey, guys, Irma Gert, it's the Kent Turkey Derby.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
Ah, yes, yeah, that is none other than mister Noel Brown.
Uh Noel, do we have a sound cue for you yet?
Speaker 3 (01:10):
Can it be that Horsey nay like from Insane in
the Membrane? You know?
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (01:19):
For this what it must be, I mean for all times.
I'm cool with that as well. I'm totally I'm more
a Horsey boy than Max to be fair be.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Wow, oh wow, I agree completely and I don't even
know what means, but I agree.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
Nobody does esa.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
We're working out Horsey Boys Uh.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
You know the horse girl phenomenon. That's the thing.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
There's shout out Shane Gillis. Uh. Folks over on this
show they call me Ben Bullen, And we've all been there.
You know. You wake up one day and you say,
you know what, forget about work. It's nice outside. I
want to put on a fancy hat. I want to
maybe drink mint jus and I want to watch a
(02:01):
bunch of panicked horses run around in a circle.
Speaker 4 (02:11):
You had me up until a nice day outside, and
then it was quite the leap to fancy hat meant
and paniced horses and a circle.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
Yeah, we're not the most fancy hat guys ourselves.
Speaker 4 (02:22):
I'm just saying, whoever came up with this as as
a wake up activity, they must have had something going on.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
I almost willing to bet we're going to talk about
exactly what that was.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
I want to set up. Yeah, it's as tad specific.
But as you said, Noel, there is an annual event
that all Americans just sort of except as normal. It's
called the Kentucky Derby. And today we're gonna learn whether
or not it is ridiculous. Spoiler it is?
Speaker 3 (02:51):
Boy? Is it ever? And what better way to start
a ridiculous.
Speaker 4 (02:57):
Topic than with an absolutely ridiculous historic name. You think
it's ridiculous, I mean, dude, the question you immediately asked
yourself is like, who is this guy related to? And
we answered that very quickly. We're talking about, of course,
none other than Colonel Merriweather Lewis Clark Junior is only
related to one of them, William Clark. But he got
(03:18):
Lewis up in there too, And I believe Lewis's first
name was Merriweather.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
You know, I didn't think about that. You are absolutely I.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
Was having to look it up.
Speaker 4 (03:26):
I'm almost positive that's the guests Merriweather, Lewis and William Clark.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
How come he's got didn't have a William in there?
His dad was William. Yeah, he really loved his boy, Merriweather.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
Yeah, this is the colonel who is the grandson of
William Clark grandson. Yes, yeah, he is perhaps known from
a semi famous Lewis and Clark expedition, which of course
informed the much more important thing Oregon Trail.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
Yeah, love it, Dysentry.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
All day, Terry Ford, the River. So this guy is
originally from Kentucky. We'll call him Junior. He is a
man of means. He wants to see the rest of
the world, and unlike most Americans at the time, he
has the ability to travel across the pond.
Speaker 4 (04:17):
Yeah, and I don't think we go on specifically what
his business was, but being a descendant of that famous line,
I imagine he was born into money.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
He was not pushed for means. You know, they weren't
sweating the spoons nor the light built in eighteen seventy two.
Our but a junior travels over to England and he
witnesses a locally famous horse race in Epsom Surrey. It's
called not the Kentucky but the Derby Steaks, and people
(04:50):
in the know usually just call it the Derby. And Max,
as we're going on, we're going to lean on you
as our sportsman expert for few of these da.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
I mean you, I wouldn't expect anything otherwise, but you know,
Kentucky Derby. I understand it. I also don't.
Speaker 4 (05:09):
Like it's kind of like one of those things like NASCAR,
where it's really easy to reduce it down to this
notion of watching people drive a car around in circles,
and it's not until you drill down into the stats
and the mechanics of it all. And like again, if
we're looking at the horse horseboy side of things, the
breeds and the prowess.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
Of these beautiful creatures.
Speaker 4 (05:31):
But as we're going to get into I don't know, man,
I can definitely get a little more behind people being
into cars than this kind of parading of these specimens.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
It's one thing to get here at the top NASCAR
has and Indie racing, Formula One racing has is quantity.
There is a lot of racing Kentucky Derby.
Speaker 3 (05:53):
I had no idea we're going to get to that.
It's like all about the day.
Speaker 4 (05:59):
It's like it's like the it's like hanging out in
the fish lot and then the Fish Concert's like moments long,
it's all.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
About the lot, barely about the concert, and folks Nola
is saying fish Phis, that's it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, not
a parking lot with fish, but a parking lot full
of people who are fans of the jam band Fish,
which I think lots of. I like a lot of
their records.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
I you know what.
Speaker 4 (06:25):
I was actually just talking with some friends last night.
I would absolutely go see the Bandfish. I never have,
but I would do it.
Speaker 3 (06:32):
There. I think they're interesting.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
Make a weekend of it. So look the original Derby
over there in Surrey. It is first run in seventeen eighty.
It continues today. For now, all we need to note
about this is that it was and is open to
all three year old horses, which sounds very young for humans,
(06:57):
but is perfect racing for race horses. This inspires Junior.
Speaker 4 (07:03):
Who, by the way, I was just looking at his
CV a little bit ben and he was known for
being a little bit touchy and had more than a
few occasions where he threatened people with guns. Yes, yeah, oddcat,
for sure. I definitely moneyed, which you know, we'll do
that to you if you're not careful. So Junior later
did travel to Perry, where he hooked up with the
(07:24):
French Jockey Club, because much like cycling, the French are ahead.
Speaker 3 (07:29):
Of the curve in this particular sport as well.
Speaker 4 (07:31):
That had been formed in eighteen sixty three, and the
French horse Boys had formed the nation's greatest horse race
up until that point, the Grand Prix de Pelis.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
Yeah, this is the premiere race for the entire country.
It's needless to say Junior is impressed. He makes it
back to the United States and he found something called
the Louisville Jockey Club and he forms this which is
kind of like a country club kind of thing, we
(08:04):
could think of it that way. And he's hoping to
raise monetary support to build racing facilities. He's walking back
into Kentucky and talking to the well healed people and
he's saying, look, they got awesome horse races in Europe.
This leads to the foundation of Churchill Downs, which is
(08:28):
named after John and Henry Churchill because they're the guys
in that meeting who donated the land for the track.
And I believe Clark lived with their family for a
time or he had a real close connection to their family.
So at first this whole.
Speaker 4 (08:47):
Enterprise was a right right out, right out of the gates,
was a phenomenal success. The horse folk from the region
would come out. It's sort of one of the only
games in town. They stood up and took notice. Unfortunately,
things did go a little bit sideways, not too far
along in this when a nouveau riche gold rush tycoon,
(09:10):
like a dude that was made his money in the
gold rush named James ben ali Hagen had a bit
of a dalliance with some gambling operations. Ben, maybe this
is this is something that you found. This is an
interesting tale.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
Oh yes, Nipun left behind James Ben Ali Hagen, Turkish
national made his money in the gold Rush, and he
ran a foul a full of sketchy gambling monopolies.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
I will, Ben, I will, all right, Well here we go.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
So it's a bit of background. It's eighteen eighty six.
There's another guy named CM White. CM White purchases like
a EP level monopoly on what they were calling pooling privileges.
That's the right to leave gamble on Kentucky Derby horse races.
Speaker 4 (10:03):
Yeah, it's funny. I still call like office pools. You know,
I got that pool that's right. I guess that is
a gambling term. Yeah, I guess it's sort of like
the ante. It's like the pile of money that everyone
contributes to and then the winner takes all right.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
Yeah yeah, just so, uh, this guy White, he pays
at the time, in eighteen eighty six, thirty thousand, six
hundred US dollars to control gambling at the emerging Kentucky Derby.
And I think we need a bit of an infletion calculator.
Speaker 4 (10:35):
Can we get a boop, Max, dude, boom, there it
is when you do it.
Speaker 3 (10:41):
A low dulcet boop of masks.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
Love when he does it? Live all right, Sue. Thirty thousand,
six hundred dollars in eighteen eighty six is equivalent to
drum roll noel, you got it.
Speaker 4 (10:57):
Oh, it's a million bucks roughly fifty million, fifty and
forty five, which still seems like a bargain to get
on the ground floor of what would ultimately be a
multimillion dollar operation. Dude anigar long term, right, I mean right,
this dude is so mafia about it. He says, okay,
I've got the rights. And he goes to every bookie
(11:20):
working at the Kentucky Derby and he says, you guys
have to pay me one hundred dollars straight up just
to work at this track, just to take bets, and
just to be clear, And this is maybe a sort
of a statement and a question. A bookie is a
book maker, and it's not inherently illegal, like there are
(11:41):
sports books operations, and so there are legal ones and
then there are illegal ones. But I think a lot
of times when people throw around bookie they're thinking about
the ones that'll like break your legs if you don't pay.
Speaker 3 (11:51):
Up, right.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
Yeah, The idea is you take bets from the general
public on any number of you usually sporting events. But
Las Vegas and Macaw get crazy with this. You make
a great point. The argument goes back to legitimacy, Like
it's totally legit and on the right side of the
(12:14):
law for there to be a bookie in say Monaco,
and you're betting on car races in Monaco. But we
had a super producer, Max, jump in for a second. Max,
you want to give us some on the street recognition
of bookies.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
Yeah, I mean, I think another big thing about bookies
because I've known some bookies. Most time they're part time bookies,
not like big time bookies. But until recently, socially America,
like sports gambling was very legal in most places in
the country. It's just illegal, right, yeah, illegal right yeah, yeah, apology,
but yeah, I.
Speaker 4 (12:50):
Just making sure because it's a little confusing and it's
still kind of a gray area where like now you're
starting to hear these ads for these sports books, and
like when you go to certain casinos they have the
section where there's all these different what they call sports books,
and it's what gets back to sort of this.
Speaker 3 (13:05):
Old timey way of doing things.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
One of the fantasy football podcasts I listened to, I'm
not giving any publicity or for advertising anyone here someone
we're talking to.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
This is brought to you by DraftKings.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
Actually no, it's not DraftKings, but one of them.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
No, no, but this is brought to you by DraftKings.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
I was listening to a fantasy football podcast and they were
talking about a specific sports book that was like there
are big lines like the only one legal in Florida.
Speaker 4 (13:30):
Right, yeah, right, that's the kind of language you're starting
to hear in this copy when we're still in this
wild West day. We talked about this very much in
our Fantasy Sports episode. So all this stuff kind of
figures in.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
And how this ties in with bookies is like, you know,
for a long time, it's like, Okay, how do you
gamble on these things? There's just a guy you knew,
like in the neighborhood, who was outside of the bar
with you.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
There's an etymology we have to get into, which is
that the in the origin story, during the day the
book makers or the book would physically write down in
a book your donation or your gamble and the odds
of a thing. So there is a reason it's called bookmaking.
(14:14):
They were literally making a.
Speaker 4 (14:15):
Book one hundred percent and just wanted to pull a
little tidbit that was news to me, or at least
a question that I had that I maybe didn't fully
have the answer to, and involves a term that you
like to throw around them, the vigoroush The way that
bookies cover these bets is by or at least more
than cover. They're covering it, I guess, because people have
(14:35):
to pay down on their bets and then they either
get their money back plus whatever the winnings is based
on the odds of the bet. The bookmakers control the odds,
and they strategically not manipulate, but they sort of have
to have knowledge of what's being bet on in such
a way that they can move the odds around to
(14:56):
attract bets, but also make sure they're covering it and
that they're able to get their commission or they're viig
or vigorous.
Speaker 3 (15:03):
Right.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
So, the folks at the Kentucky Derby during its origin story,
it was not necessarily a social nor a fashion event
it was not the met Gala or whatever. They wanted
to make money off these horses. And so when our
buddy CM White shakes down all the bookies at the
(15:32):
new Kentucky Derby, the bookies boycott. They say, we're just
not going to show up. No one can gamble, you
can't make high dollar bets over at the Derby. This
happens in eighteen eighty six. Our pal gold Rush James Hagen,
does not vibe with this. He learns he cannot place
(15:53):
a bet on his champion horse that he, in a
burst of humility, names Ben Ali, and so he says,
you know what, I'm with the bookies, I'm going to
boycott the race as well. Not one horse from my
stable will participate in your little Kentucky Derby, and we're
not gonna play ball until the bookies return. Derby leadership
(16:18):
calls his bluff. That pisses him off even more. He
goes to talk to his other horse owning friends. What's
the word for a guy who owns horses the way
you own a restaurant?
Speaker 2 (16:31):
Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
A horseboy, horseboy, horsemen?
Speaker 3 (16:38):
Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 4 (16:39):
I'm sticking with horseboy for just about everything pertaining to
the topic because I just love it so much. This
was bad news, right, This was like borderline devastating because
everyone starts to join in with these boycotts, other people
that have interest in the book, making nests of it all,
other owners, other you know, gamblers, et cetera. And while
the bookies did return the fire year in eighteen eighty seven,
(17:01):
the damage had kind of been done at least up
until some changes took place.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
Yeah, this pattern continues until Churchill Downs goes so far
Churchill Downhill that it is going to be closed and
bankrupt around nineteen oh three. So it gets sold off
and a new crew steps in another colonel of course. Yeah,
(17:29):
his name's Matt Wynn. He's also from Louisville. And Churchill
Downs manages to repair its reputation. It becomes the number
one race for three year old thoroughbreds here in the
United States.
Speaker 3 (17:44):
So let's just say that you're a jockey or what
do you say, a.
Speaker 4 (17:48):
Horse lord, you know, the horse lord's fun and you
got a nagger affiliate or stallion that wins over there
at the Kentucky Derby. Well, I mean, wouldn't you want
to keep going?
Speaker 1 (18:00):
Why stop? There, says everybody with a gambling problem. After
winning the Derby, horse owners start sending their horses in
the US to compete in two other races, the Preakness
Steaks in Baltimore and then the Belmont Steaks in Elmont,
New York.
Speaker 3 (18:19):
In Belmont, New York, why don't they call it the
Elmont Steaks. That doesn't make any sense to me.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
It's a whole thing.
Speaker 3 (18:25):
Also, the Preakness. Doesn't that sound like a thing you'd
say about something that was really rad Like that is
the Preakness, The absolutely ruickness, you know.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
Right, like the ability of having or the capability of
having the peak of a These always strikes me like
Jinko's are Preakness nineteen nineties jeans peak Preakness.
Speaker 4 (18:43):
Indeed, So these other races were pre existing, but it
was just kind of like the success of the Kentucky
Derby kind of elevated them in a way because they
were the only other games in town.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
Yeah. Yeah, they're pretty profitable races. In nineteen nineteen, there's
a horse named Sir Barton who is owned by a
human named John E. Madden, and Madden is also from Kentucky. Anyway,
Sir Barton wins all three of these races, the Kentucky Derby,
(19:15):
the Preakness Stakes, and the Belmont Steaks. This means the
Guy was the first triple Crown horse, a term we've
all heard before, but the term itself isn't used until
more than a decade later.
Speaker 3 (19:29):
That's right.
Speaker 4 (19:29):
A second horse named Gallant Fox also won all three.
Speaker 3 (19:34):
Is this what they call the triple crown?
Speaker 1 (19:36):
This is the triple crown because Gallant Fox inspired the
sports writer of the time, Charles Hatten, to popularize the
term triple crown. And this launches huge public interest, not
just in the States, but across the world, right, because
we learned this from England, and we learned this from France.
(19:58):
And there's a dark side because everyone in the US
is at this time fueled with a growing interest in
the pseudoscience of eugenics and social Darwinism, and they started
asking each other in certain circles whether it was possible
to breed a quote unquote super horse, and.
Speaker 3 (20:20):
If we can do it with horses, maybe we can
do it with people.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (20:24):
It's weird, dude, The idea of like observing these specimens
being put through their paces. It just kind of like, well,
you're gonna get to it, Ben, I mean, I don't
mean to scoop it, but you know, with athletes that
put themselves through the ringer, you know, whether it be
training or drug enhancement, they know what they're doing, right, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
Yeah, we'll get to it. Lets let's talk a little bit.
Let's talk a little bit about the Triple Crown.
Speaker 4 (20:47):
Since nineteen thirty one, the Triple Crown races have happened
in a specific order, for you win the Derby, then
the Preakness, and then the Belmont. First live radio broadcast
of the Derby came on May sixteenth, nineteen twenty five,
where you would have just had some absolute rapid fire
mid Atlantic follow.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
By Babada's Charlie Brown left, tors bang, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 4 (21:13):
We're gonna get into some really fun horse names, but
it just it's become such a joke in the best
possible way, these absurd horse names. And that's what I
think of when I think of the Kentucky Derby. Is
this that cartoonish kind of coverage.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
Right, And if we fast forward, the first television coverage
aired on May seventh, nineteen forty nine, that was regional
and was pre recorded. The first national television coverage airs
on May third, nineteen fifty two. This feeds public interest.
This is great for the bookies. This is great for
(21:48):
the people who own and sell the horses. In nineteen
fifty four, just a few years later, the official prize
they call it a purse for first place, exceeds one
hundred thousand US dollars. In nineteen fifty four, if we
can throw to an inflation calculator, Max, give us a
(22:11):
wildly different boop.
Speaker 3 (22:18):
Oh my god, that's relaxing, Rex.
Speaker 4 (22:21):
Yeah, we got around one point two million dollars in
today's dollars.
Speaker 1 (22:27):
Yeah, one billion, nearly one point three Yeah, one million,
two hundred thou nine and twenty one dollars and ninety
three cents. Uh. This is a big business, and like
all big businesses with serious money on the line, serious
problems come to light and you set it up so well.
In the human athletes then and now fall victim to
(22:52):
accusations of doping, and horses are no different. Here's another
horse name. We love a horse named Dancers image in
nineteen sixty eight.
Speaker 4 (23:04):
That's right, Dancer's image in nineteen sixty eight was found
to contain the horse contained traces of an anti inflammatory
painkiller called phenal beautazone.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
Yeah, unlike human athletes, our equine friends don't possess the
ability to consent to being doped or drugged, and they
don't have the capacity to understand what's being forced upon them.
This is just the beginning with issues surrounding animal racing,
from camels to dogs to horses. People oppose this.
Speaker 4 (23:38):
Do you remember there was a I think it was
an HBO television series about horse racing that happened a
handful of years ago, and it was canceled very quickly,
maybe even before the season ended, because of it was
just rampant abuse of the animals, because they were trying
to make it as real as possible, and the only
way to make it as real as possible is to
treat the animals with a lot of, you know, brutality.
Speaker 1 (24:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (24:01):
The show is called Luck and it was canceled due
to the deaths of three horses during its production. This
was a Dustin Hoffman vehicle and Pete got in the mix.
Speaker 3 (24:12):
And so I'm saying, if that's what they're doing in a.
Speaker 4 (24:15):
TV show to paint an accurate picture of this era,
what must.
Speaker 3 (24:21):
Have been like you know, in the era.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
Yeah, definitely an odor in the court, which is also
a name of a real life racehorse. Look. Just last year,
twenty twenty four, a journalist named Kalia Richardson from Rolling
Stone dove into the controversy surrounding racehorses. She said, quote
corruption and a witted all costs mentality have long been
(24:48):
a part of horse racing, but in recent years that
culture has led to dire consequences. The FBI got involved, folks.
More than two dozen people were charged with secretly distributing
drugs to race horses in twenty twenty and in twenty
twenty three, not that long ago, twelve horses. A dozen
(25:12):
horses died at Churchill Downs immediately before and after the race.
Speaker 4 (25:18):
And Ben, you pointed out in your research that the
New York Times documentary Broken Horses is a good watch
if you want to dig a little deeper. Plus, we
have explorations of this on our other show stuff they
don't want you to know, along with our pal Matt Frederick.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
And our pal Dylan, the Tennessee pal Fagan.
Speaker 3 (25:34):
Yes, indeed also a bit of a horse point.
Speaker 1 (25:43):
So we didn't want to leave you without a dope,
hoof to trot to dress hodge is weird. A lot
of people comment about the Kentucky Derby in terms of
social like social import right, So when you are looking
at the derby and the actual derby, by the way,
(26:06):
the actual horse racing is a very small part of
the modern experience. A lot of times the media is
going to focus on the fashion, the eye popping hats. Noel,
this is where you and I learned about something called fascinators.
Speaker 3 (26:23):
Yeah, not to be confused with terrifiers. That's very different.
It's his own thing. Fascinators are a super posh accessory.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
Yeah, yeah, it's weird. Imagine the fanciest hat pin or
headband ever. It's a hairclip times a million. They're colorful,
they're vibrant. People wear them to stand out at the
Kentucky Derby, even if they're not wearing a hat.
Speaker 4 (26:51):
Can I just say that I really love that National
Geographic is commenting on this as though they're like observing.
Speaker 3 (26:57):
Like animals in the wild, and not the horses.
Speaker 4 (27:00):
I'm talking about the people, you know, and these weird
mating rituals like peacocking around with their bizarre hats. I'm
sure we saw some like some of those crazy taxidermy
hat type situations that we've discussed I believe with our
buddy aj Bahamas.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
Yeah, yeah, good callback, Noel. This reminds me of being
in college and looking at anthropological satire like the Nasserrema.
Speaker 3 (27:26):
Dude, I love that. Yeah, I talk about that any
recent episode of stuff. They don't want you to know.
Let's not spoil it.
Speaker 4 (27:32):
It's just a it's a sociological deep dive that will
tickle you satire.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
We hope we also know that sombreros are common at
the Kentucky Derby.
Speaker 3 (27:44):
Yeah, that threw me a little bit.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
Yeah, I mean it's a type of hat.
Speaker 3 (27:48):
It is a type of hat.
Speaker 4 (27:49):
But I mean, are we talking like Mexican sombreros or
is there is that not.
Speaker 3 (27:54):
Like a bit a culturally appropriate of but maybe I'm I.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
Mean it's more surface area port, more flowery stuff and
ribbons on it. These people are walking around with full
floral arrangements on your shirts.
Speaker 3 (28:08):
I guess it's a good point.
Speaker 4 (28:10):
Also, they're also walking around being intensely white and the
same they're.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
Also appropriating the earlier races in England and France.
Speaker 3 (28:20):
Not to mention Yeah, No, it's a good point this.
Speaker 4 (28:23):
I won't be too pedantic about it, just that when
I saw some breras that threw me for a bit
of a loop.
Speaker 3 (28:27):
We also have a term that I've seen.
Speaker 4 (28:31):
It's one of those better Minehoff things in literature, A
good bit recently, the idea of a close which can
just be described like as a bunch of things like
a tide ribbon under your chin would be a closeh
But it's also here, very specifically, a style of accessor.
Speaker 1 (28:48):
Yeah, like a bucket hat, a pillbox hat. This goes
so deep it could be an episode all its own.
We're probably not the ones. We're not the have dashers
you're looking for. We can tell you for anybody who
just asked, wait, I'm a guy, what do I wear
the Kentucky Derby, we can tell you can wear a
(29:11):
bowler hat once upon a time known as a Derby hat.
Speaker 4 (29:16):
Yea the Brown Derby in Los Angeles, famous Hollywood hot
spot in the golden age of cinema.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
Yeah, you can rock a pork pie here in the States.
Over in Louisville, Kentucky. You can wear a fedora for
the Kentucky Derby people won't be mad at you. The
custom hats are apparently quite expensive. There's a Kentucky Derby
Museum milliner named Jenny Fanisdale who told Business Insider that
(29:50):
people pay upwards of five hundred to six hundred dollars
US for a custom hat that they only wear once.
That seems like a lot of money for a one
use thing, but who are we to judge?
Speaker 4 (30:06):
I have to say something just to correct myself, the
word klosh. I was totally wrong about what it was.
I knew i'd seen it, But you know what it
also is, Ben. It's the thing that you put over
food for the big reveal the domes. It's called a klosh.
I'm sorry. I said it was a bunch of ribbons,
and that was its own thing that you already mentioned
as well. But a klosh is that dome thing with
(30:28):
the little handle that you pull off to reveal the
fancy chicken or whatever.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
I love it. And now, as we're wrapping up the
history of the Kentucky Derby, which is really a history
of Americans or Yanks trying to catch up with the British,
we could not picture a better ending than giving you
some of our favorite kooky racehorse names. I love goat Zapper,
(30:55):
I love po too.
Speaker 3 (31:00):
Yeah, tell us about that one.
Speaker 4 (31:01):
I believe there was a fun typo situation that led
to that name.
Speaker 1 (31:04):
Yeah. So this is a horse from the seventeen hundreds,
and his owner asked the kid working at the stables
to write the horse's name down. The horse was called Potatoes.
That's what he responded to. The kid wrote pot and
then wrote the letter O eight times, and the owner
(31:28):
loved it, and so now the horse's name is historically
po two.
Speaker 3 (31:34):
It's like one of those like you're trying to, you know,
make it hard for people to find you on social media,
and so you put like a very specific number of
like o's or i's or whatever. Have we talked about?
Hoof hearted? Hoof hearted?
Speaker 1 (31:46):
I love who hearted? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (31:48):
Who heard?
Speaker 1 (31:48):
Can you say it five times?
Speaker 3 (31:49):
I don't want to. I'm not going to do it.
Speaker 4 (31:51):
Okay, who farted? That's how you say. It's all about
where he put the em fastus. And just just to
crib a little bit from Britannica here, at firstance, they
say hoof hearted seemed like a charming and appropriate.
Speaker 3 (32:03):
Name for an equine friend.
Speaker 4 (32:05):
But if you say it five times fast as you
pointed out, and you'll realize it's a clever dublo tendre
that made it past jockey club sensors.
Speaker 3 (32:11):
And that's a big part of this whole horse naming game.
Speaker 4 (32:15):
Got another one, are uh? And then I also some
more modern ones. I found a minute ago. Let's see
if I can find it.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
Oh, I love ben Dover, no pun left behind. I
love sofa king fast. Get it sofa space king space fast,
but say it quickly.
Speaker 4 (32:36):
That's a good old gag there, like a sofa king stupid. Also,
it's fine, We've got no souper. No, It's just it's
just an old gang. It's like it's where you like
write it down and then you ask someone to say
it over and over again, and then they end up saying,
I am so fuck gang stupid. You know, it's like
a it's a gag. It's a goof classic no soup
for you from the peak times of Seinfeld. We've got
(33:01):
bodacious tatas from nineteen eighty five.
Speaker 1 (33:05):
Let's see, we've got Anita Bath, We've got Hugh Jass,
We've got Chester drawers.
Speaker 4 (33:12):
Yeah, these are all Bart Simpson prank phone calls. Basically
Branjelina from two thousand and five, Peak Brad and Angelina time,
what am I chopped?
Speaker 3 (33:21):
Liver? All one on one word.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
I like the ones that are like a sentence.
Speaker 4 (33:27):
Oh not everything, yeah, from two thousand and eight. We
have one, just so, where's the beef?
Speaker 1 (33:34):
We have some that are pushing the limits. And I
want to give a shout out to ideal horse name,
who seems very into this. I was not aware of,
you guys that there is literally a horse called maya
enormous boot.
Speaker 3 (33:52):
Yeah. Yeah, and we couldn't.
Speaker 4 (33:55):
We couldn't end today's episode without talking about Panty Raid
Panti of course.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
Yeah, put some respect on his name. Midnight Charger, ghost Zapper.
We got Max coming in.
Speaker 3 (34:05):
Hot, all right.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
So, as there always is for these things, there is
of course a random horse name generator.
Speaker 3 (34:12):
Love it guy.
Speaker 2 (34:14):
You guys want to here's someone's like.
Speaker 1 (34:15):
Yeah, play the game. This is like, uh, this is
like when I was reading weird words from that reference word.
Speaker 2 (34:22):
So I'm going to say the name. You tell me
what the horse looks like or like sounds like here
are something. We got a majestic mirage.
Speaker 1 (34:31):
It's clearly a horse.
Speaker 3 (34:34):
Wait, what are you asking, Max, you're asking it to
describe the horse.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
Yeah, what what do you think? Why why would we
name this horse?
Speaker 4 (34:39):
I couldn't possibly answer that. I have no frame of
reference for any name to horse ratio.
Speaker 1 (34:44):
There's no logic or reason.
Speaker 3 (34:46):
Yeah to this, I think that's the point.
Speaker 2 (34:48):
How about Thunderbolt Tango.
Speaker 3 (34:51):
Maybe he's got like a yeah, a bit of a stripe.
Speaker 1 (34:53):
That horse has a tank top, it loves the savannah bananas,
and it probably does scratch offs.
Speaker 4 (35:00):
I'm also picturing it as being the kind of little
pony that like a cowboy might ride, maybe with like
a lightning streak stripe along its side.
Speaker 3 (35:06):
Now I'm thinking of just race cars. I don't know, last.
Speaker 2 (35:08):
One worst one, and I got velvet Nebula's.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
Oh oh luscious fur. I would say, uh, probably machine
night rider.
Speaker 3 (35:20):
Bit of achine.
Speaker 1 (35:21):
Yeah, yeah, it's a fun to pet.
Speaker 2 (35:23):
I think I'm gonna use that nickname now, going for it,
but for something very different.
Speaker 3 (35:27):
Was it again?
Speaker 4 (35:28):
Velvet velvet Nebula, Velvet Nebula, Yeah, because I'm also now
thinking of space stuff.
Speaker 3 (35:33):
I'm thinking of inper.
Speaker 1 (35:35):
NASA for sure, first horse on the Moon. I am
super into it. Hey, hey, Max, you're gonna use Velvet
Nebula as your new persona.
Speaker 2 (35:45):
I think I am, and you can be my starry Strider.
Speaker 3 (35:49):
That's really sweet. What can I be?
Speaker 2 (35:51):
You can be my moon shadow dancer.
Speaker 3 (35:53):
Oh I love that, Thank you so love it.
Speaker 1 (35:55):
That's very uh, that's very Van Morrison. Right, marvelous night.
Speaker 3 (35:59):
For moon dances doing jazz hands.
Speaker 1 (36:02):
We don't even have time to get into the traditional
cuisine of the Kentucky Derby, but we do have time
to thank you so much for tuning in, friends and neighbors,
fellow ridiculous historians. We're gonna call it a day. Thank
you as always to our super producer, Velvet Nebula. Max.
(36:22):
We're gonna use your horse name from now on.
Speaker 3 (36:25):
Bet are you talking, by the way, are you talking
about the Hot Brown?
Speaker 4 (36:29):
There's some funny dishes associated with the Oh my goodness,
but look at hop, y'all, it's worth it.
Speaker 3 (36:36):
And if if it's if you're.
Speaker 4 (36:37):
Familiar with other big, big, big money type of legacy
events like the Masters where they've got these famous pimento
cheese sandwiches or whatever. Oh yeah, I've never had one
and I grew up there, but yeah, the Hot Brown
classic Kentucky open face sandwich. It's just turkey and bacon
and some sort of gravy it looks like.
Speaker 1 (36:57):
And big thanks as well to Alex Williams who compose
this banking track. Big thanks to aj Bahamas, Jacobs, Doctor
Rachel Big, Spinach, Lance Oh and our new friend Ross
bettish Man.
Speaker 3 (37:10):
Ross is so cool I hope to have him back
again Talk ninety some.
Speaker 4 (37:13):
He literally brought in the scope of the show time
wise with his very presence.
Speaker 3 (37:18):
Thanks to you as well. Ben, This is a great one.
Speaker 4 (37:20):
Thanks for bringing this and doing all the research on
the Kentucky Derby.
Speaker 1 (37:24):
We'll see you next time. Anita Bath, Dixie Enormous, jack Niehoff,
Pat Mind, Wildie Stroker, and of course Buck Naked Hand.
Speaker 3 (37:33):
We'll see you next time, folks.
Speaker 4 (37:42):
For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
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Ridiculous History News
Hosts And Creators
Ben Bowlin
Noel Brown
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