August 28, 2025 • 40 mins
Let's say you're a love-struck NASA intern -- your professional career holds a lot of promise, but your family life back home is in shambles... and you fall in love with a fellow intern. How can you impress your new paramour? Forget flowers, chocolates and all those other silly earth-bound romantic gestures: this is the story of Thad Roberts. From his account, he was carried away by mad love, which led him and a few collaborators -- including his fellow interns, one of whom was his lover -- to pull a heist on NASA's moon rock collection. In the second part of this two-part series, Ben, Noel and Max explore the real-life story of Moon Crime. (Please be aware this episode also contains a description of two people in a hotel room getting intimate atop a pile of stolen lunar rocks.)
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Welcome back to the show, fellow Ridiculous Historians. Thank you,
as always so much for joining us. Let's give a
shout out to our fellow moon Man of Positive Lunatic
super producer, mister Max Williams.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
A lunatic. Get it like lunar? A lunar. Yeah, that's good,
it's good. Remember I remember that band. I think they
are like a riot crow band called the Lunatics. That's
I do. That's fine. I'm Noel, your Ben. We're having
fun talking about moon rocks, talking about people stealing them, misbehaving.
Episode one was pretty much all about the history of
(01:00):
moon rocks and their placed in American culture and Tricky
Dicky Nixon messing things up, you know, causing some of
them to go missing. But that wasn't exactly a heist.
That was more a case of incompetence and people just
kind of having some oopsis and losing the moon rocks.
The what were they called, Ben, Goodwill moon rocks.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Previously on Ridiculous History, we discussed everything that you've excellently
recapped their nol the good will moon rocks given out
during the Tricky Dick administration, there were two hundred and
seventy of these very small samples of lunar material taken
(01:44):
by the Apollo missions, given out often unilaterally by the
President of the time, Richard Nixon. However, as we learned previously,
not only were a bunch of those mislaid, stolen or
simply lost, there was a guy who's a real hero,
(02:05):
a real Indiana Jones, who has been hunting these down
for the good grace of the United States. That's the
ex US Military Intelligence Officer NAS investigator Joseph Gutes. And
now in part two, we're getting to something we and
(02:25):
our pal Jordan liked to call sex on.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
The moon, which is not just a bangingly delicious cocktail
that should exist. If it doesn't, what would be in
that moon juice? That's not a thing. We'll workshop that one.
We have indeed arrived at what our buddy Jr. Describes
(02:49):
as the most famous instance of missing and misused moon rocks.
In July of two thousand and two, a guy named
fad Fattius Roberts. I'm adding the fattiest boy do I
hope that is short for Thadeus, twenty five year old
intern in NASA's elite cooperative education program orchestrates boldly goes,
(03:09):
but not to space. He goes into a life of
crime in the form of a heist that will go
down in history, at least the history of NASA. The
theft of seventeen pounds of Apollo moon rocks. Valued and
here we go. We promised it. Here it is valued.
It between seven million and twenty one million US dollars
(03:30):
plus BLUs for good measure of Martian mediaite.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
Yeah. I was gonna say, but wait, there's more. A
meteorite were at It descended from Mars.
Speaker 3 (03:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
This guy, Thad Roberts, who we mentioned in part one.
He's you know, he's mid twenties. He's up and coming.
He's looking at the vast chasms of space, the deep ink,
and the world in which we revolve, And he says
why not. So he has a girlfriend. This is a
(04:03):
romance story. She is also an intern at NASA. Her
name is Tiffany Fowler. And they pick up in accomplice
who is also an intern. This is Shay soer So
like last name sore Sour, like the end of Dinosaur
spelled a little different. They use their work ideas and
(04:26):
the trust of their cohorts and superiors to steal these
priceless materials. They get the codes for the locks, they
rewire the surveillance, and they they've got I'll say it,
absolutely lunar balls. They get a lot of hutsban this.
(04:47):
They do something that is positively cinematic. It's a six
hundred and one pounds safe and at first get this,
NASA doesn't even realize they got got.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
Yeah, I mean, they definitely approached this with mission impossible
levels of planning. You got to give him credit for that,
But boy, what a stupid thing to do. And we're
going to get more into that because the plan ultimately
failed because Thad's levels of confidence seemed to exceed his
criminal prowess and he ended up spending years behind bars.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
Right, and the old poet Burns would say, man's reach
must exceed his grasp. Else what's a heaven for? Unfortunately,
you cannot plead that in a US court. Let's go
to New York Times journalist Ben Mesrich. He wrote a
book about this, and he called it Sex on the Moon.
In an interview with CBS News in twenty twelve, he
(05:45):
said that Roberts is the most complicated person I've ever
written about. He's an incredibly complex character. And I've written
about Mark Zuckerberg. I've always been writing about these genius
kids who live in that gray area between right and wrong.
And here's this kid who basically does a one hundred
yard sprint through that gray area right into the black
(06:10):
area to your point earlier. In all the black area
I think means.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
Crime, I would think. So. Have you seen the new
Alien series on Hulu, Ben, Alien Earth?
Speaker 2 (06:20):
Not yet? I'm very excited.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
It's good and there's a really awesome character who's like
exactly what is being described here, the kind of overly educated,
perhaps gifted, with a little too much power and confidence.
And he's got the best name. He's referred to often
as the boy genius, but his name is the Boy Cavalier,
(06:42):
and I just I love everything about it. Some people
are all iffy about the series, but I'm into it
so far. But similarly complex character who himself tends to
dip his toe in that black area. So prior to
his incarceration, Roberts aspired to be an astronaut like you, Ben,
Maybe not a werewolf fashionaut, but an astronaut just the same.
(07:04):
In addition to earning a triple degree in physics, geology,
and geophysics at the University of Utah, he was also
a licensed pilot and a scuba diver, which will come
into play in the order of events regarding the heists.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
Yeah, and with all these bona fides, he is entered
into NASA's co Op program. Now, no, I know you
always wanted to go to Space Camp. I would say,
cut past Space Camp and go to this program. It's
pretty prestigious.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
It absolutely is. It only accepts six percent of applicants.
That's quite an elite number there. Despite his impressive accomplishments,
Roberts was super shy, didn't possess the most high levels
of people's skills. He was also quite insecure. He went
through a bit of a tough upbringing where he was
disowned by, as you may have gathered from the University
(07:58):
of Utah, his de out Mormon family when they discovered
that he had had premarital sex with his then girlfriend,
which is a megan. No, now, so he was, you know,
borderline shunned. That's not I know that's a that's an
amish thing, but I think the term still applies here.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
Yeah, yeah, he was in a tough spot. And in
this tough spot, he meets Tiffany Fowler, the other intern
we mentioned earlier. She is twenty two years old. He
is on a late night beach. Hag. It's the perfect
meet cute. He will later go on to tell the
La Times in two thousand and four the following when
(08:38):
I met Tiffany, says Roberts. We talked for fourteen hours straight.
She was blonde, blue eyed, of very toned. She was
way out of my league. She was a former cheerleader.
And at the time she is interning at NASA's Tissue
Culture Laboratory. They're conducting stem cell research. Please, let's all
(09:00):
remember that NASA does a lot of astonishing, very important science.
They both dig each other. Tiffany Fowler later goes on
to say, this guy is very intelligent. He's pretty much
good at everything. To your point, Noel, I think that
triple degree would argue the same. So look, they meet
(09:26):
up and they have a great time. And then later
our buddy Tad, just like a few weeks after their
meet coot on the night beach, he moves in to
Tiffany's apartment and he says he's been pretty consistent about this.
He says he wanted to do this Moon Rock and
(09:50):
Martian heist as a romantic gesture. It's not about the money.
It's because I love you.
Speaker 3 (09:57):
Yeah. It seems quite misplayed, wrapped up in some of
the complexities of this individual's upbringing and that perfect storm
of insecurity and intelligence. It's very odd. It's an odd
thing to you know. I'm all about a grand gesture
(10:18):
when it comes to the ways of romance, but this
just seems quite ill informed and very specific.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
And he again, back to the La Times interview, our
buddy Thad says, I was in love with Tiffany in
my mind. I was thinking, to your point, all about
misplaced good intentions. He says, literally, I was thinking, baby,
I'd give you the moon. It would be a romantic
(10:46):
start to our relationship.
Speaker 3 (10:49):
What is he like a character and the Honeymooners. He's
just like, maybe I'd give you that moon. And it
just sounds like something like a fifty sitcom star would say.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
It's also an appeal to emotion that does it really
deliver because later research would prove that that Roberts came
up with this plan to steal lunar material and sell
it to her private collector months before the meet cute
at night on the beach. She's just kind of convenient
(11:19):
for this, you know.
Speaker 3 (11:21):
Yeah, that's what Okay, I'm with this, La Times writer.
This is indeed a complex character.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
A little bit sociopathic.
Speaker 3 (11:29):
I think so too. And let's also, you know, to
your point bend exercise a little empathy. I would argue
the literalness of a lot of these things implies a
position somewhere on the far end of the spectrum.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
I hear you. Yeah, he did have a buyer lined up,
which we'll get to in a moment. And in later
conversations postbust, by the way, obviously Thad gets busted. In
later conversations, he gets confronted with proof that there was
a financial rather than romantic motivation here, at least at
(12:05):
the beginning. And he sticks with the story, right, He
sticks with the story of a lover gone wrong. And
he said, in my own head, stealing something wasn't the
way I looked at it. We weren't going to take
this money we're getting from it to go buy a
yacht or lots of cars or a big house. We
were going to live just the small kind of lifestyle,
(12:28):
but fun science that might change the world, you.
Speaker 3 (12:31):
Know, soleusions of grandeur much holy cow, this dude. It's
probably a good time to note that between their first
meetings and the night of the theft, robertson Tiffany had
known each other for all of about three weeks. When
asked about this, Roberts explained, I don't think that kind
of connection that people really desire requires much time. Okay,
(12:53):
love at first sight kind of cat a real hopeless
romantic when you know, you know, Okay, I don't know
about that. So let's get into what's the plot. The scheme,
as Jordan puts it, one dumb step for man beautiful.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
So our buddy Thad is moved in with this lady's Mett,
Tiffany Fowler, and he tells her, beb, I love you.
I got this idea. Let's steal you know, rocks but
like moon rocks, and she goes, oh my god, be byeb.
Speaker 3 (13:38):
They're also now all of a sudden they have transmorphed
into the Californians, which I am here for.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
Yes, yeah, yeah, And we are not giving you accurate impressions.
We're doing impressions that we find.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
Hilarious impressions of impressions, at least the impressions that exist
in our mind of what these people may or may
not have sounded like, Yeah, what is that thing that
that Joker movie that tanked that phenomenon where two people
kind of make each other co crazy folly a dude,
that's the wine. I think there's a bit of that
going on here, because she was not a passive bystander
and all that, she was not just the object of
(14:13):
this bonker's you know, grand gesture of affection. She urged
him on. Not only did she urge him on, she
offered to be his accomplice.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
Yeah, yeah, not a sidekick, a co conspirator. And they
did have a good case in that they weren't planning
to harm anyone. They weren't planning to injure people. They
weren't planning to you know, do headshots or anything like that.
And the rationalized they rationalized this mission by saying, look,
(14:50):
these rocks had already been contaminated, right, so maybe they
aren't worthwhile to science, to scientific research and in depth.
And I'm gonna be honest, as former President Biden was
wont to say, that's malarkey.
Speaker 3 (15:06):
Malarkey. Indeed. I mean, sure, one person's space trash is
another person's space treasure. But like you said, Ben, all
of this appears to be some pretty circular reasoning trying
to justify, you know, doing a crime. So on one
rainy Saturday evening in July of two thousand and two, Roberts,
Tiffany Fowler, and Shay Souer pulled up to Houston's Johnson's
(15:31):
Space Center in a Jeep Cherokee Classic heightst vehicle. If
you ask me, The guard recognized Roberts as he was
a known entity around there and the fact that this
wasn't his normal vehicle, So he inquired, quite reasonably, you
get a new call and this guy's from Boston, No, sir,
he responded, that's that I borrowed. It's to help a
(15:52):
friend move.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
And that guy's Matt Berry.
Speaker 3 (15:55):
Playing question, that's the only impression that.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
So if this helps our Bostonian not really Bustonian security
guard wave them through and the accomplices get to Building
thirty one and this is where allegedly they begin rewiring
the security cameras. Good question, though, how did they do that?
(16:22):
How did they know where the cameras were Anyway, fast
forwarding through this, their accomplice Shay is waiting in the
car keeping an eye on these rewired cameras, and Tiffany
and Thad into the building. They use a key code
that they got from a former coworker, and then they
(16:43):
don't this is so cool, Mexican. We get some heist music,
make it real, mission impossible, Ocean's eleven perfect, So they
get this. They put on neopering bodysuits so that they
won't admit heat that would set off a thermal alarm,
(17:03):
and the rocks are kept in an airless vacuum. So
this is where the scuba stuff you mentioned earlier comes in. Noel,
they bring along breathing paraphernalia from Thad Roberts scuba gear.
I just got to say, at this point, ethics aside,
I'm impressed.
Speaker 3 (17:23):
I'm impressed too. The rewiring of the cameras alone hadn't me. Unfortunately,
by the time they entered the room with the rocks,
they only had about three minutes to figure out how
to crack the safe before they had run out of
oxygen from those breathing apparatuses. The clock is indeed ticking.
They decided to simply load the entire six This reminds
me of like someone's stealing an ATM, you know, figure
(17:44):
out what to do with it. Later, six pounds safe
onto a dolly and wheeled it out to their car.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
What could go wrong?
Speaker 3 (17:55):
Yeah, this was literally sagging the suspension of the gene.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
Yeah. Yeah, So the jeep is dragging, and they make
it by the security right, because they've already been allowed in,
it's easier to get out, right, And so two days
later it takes a full forty eight hours, NASA notices, Hey,
(18:18):
our six hundred and one pounds safe is not where
it was earlier. What could have happened? They look around,
Thad Roberts, Tiffany Fowler left, no fingerprints, no hair, no
security footage, Shay is a ghost. And in the wind
they pulled off the perfect heist. And then they get romantic.
(18:44):
They drive to the Houston suburb of Clear Lake.
Speaker 3 (18:48):
This is the moment in the movie where the star
crossed lovers who have just like robbed a bank or
something get it on in a pile of cash, only
a much nerd your version, much nerdier they at least.
Sad says in an interview that once they finally cracked
open the safe. Took them a while. He knew what
(19:10):
they had to do. He says, I take some of
the moon rocks and I put them underneath the blanket
on the bed, and then we made love.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
I never said anything, but I'm sure she could feel it,
this guy, but she's crazy.
Speaker 3 (19:22):
I bet she could feel it.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
Princess and the Peace story, Yeah, oh geez, he said.
It was more about the symbol of what we were doing,
basically having sex on the moon. It's more uncomfortable than not.
But it wasn't about the comfort at that point. It
was about the expression.
Speaker 3 (19:42):
The psycho this guy is nuts. Come on, I'm sorry,
I'm not mental health shaming here, but this dude is unwell.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
And no, he's great at yoga. Can you imagine patting
your back that consistently.
Speaker 3 (19:54):
Well, yeah, that's exactly right. But we're seeing a lot
of these delusions of grandeur. We're seeing a lot of
these just absolute you know, the moments of megalomania and delusion,
pure delusion, not just of grandeur. So once that deed
that you know, Rocky uncomfortable deed had been artistic expression,
(20:15):
fair enough, I'm sure they had to get some kinks
out of their backs, and also no kink shaming here.
Of doing it on moon rocks is your thing. By
all means, go with God, just don't steal them from
the government. It was, in fact now time to fence
the stolen moon rocks, including the lightly sullied ones, the
sext ones lightly sext.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
Which bite fetch a higher price. I don't know, maybe
after the fact, maybe maybe. Yeah. So there's this guy
that is going to function as their fence. His name
is Gordon mcward and Jordan just absolutely loves this guy's name.
So they go to a mineralogy website and they list
(20:59):
the these pieces of lunar material for between two thousand
and eight thousand, gray four less dollars.
Speaker 3 (21:08):
Priceless stolen moon rocks. Nothing to see here, folks, don't
don't don't dig too deep. Everything's above board. We assure you.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
They didn't say stolen.
Speaker 3 (21:17):
But I'm just saying, where else are they gonna come from?
This is in the midst of a moon rock heist,
unless these were some of the remaining a good will
moon rocks that had surfaced. But as we know, our
dogged investigator of the moon rock whatever Society he would
have known. It just seems like a real boneheaded thing
(21:38):
to advertise this in a public forum.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
My guy, check out the pseudonym that Gordon mcwarter real
Dave Gordon mcwater used this pseudonym. Are you ready orb Robinson?
Speaker 3 (21:52):
Orb?
Speaker 2 (21:52):
Are you kidding me?
Speaker 3 (21:54):
I would have gone with Roy Orbison. That would have
been final.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
I think that's where they were coming pretty soon.
Speaker 3 (21:59):
They were We're all going to be crying.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
Right right? Yeah? Oh manh yeah. And I guess that
would say that it was all for a pretty woman.
If you have an interest and if you have an
interest the the listing reads in purchasing a rare and
historically significant piece of the moon, and would like more information,
(22:23):
then please contact me by email and leave your contact
information and an explanation of your interest. Sincerely, orb So bad,
It's bad, so bad. Oh, it's so like not good
operational security.
Speaker 3 (22:41):
It just seems like up to this point they'd done
everything so relatively smartly, aside from the you know, moonrock
sex being a little odd and I'm not really having
a plan to crack the safe, but they got out
of there. They were kind of free and clear at
this point. How do we get them, busted man, that's
what I I want to know.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
Oh gosh, yeah, there's a Belgian mineral collector named Axel Emmerman,
and he reaches out. He responds to Orb, and Orb
says the following, H and folks, ridiculous historians. You listen
to this and tell us if it sounds suspicious to you.
(23:22):
H Noel, can you do the honors on this quotation?
Speaker 3 (23:26):
This response, as you well know, it is illegal to
sell Apollo lunar rocks in the United States, as obviously
has not discouraged me since I live in the United States. However,
I must be cautious that this deal is handled with
the utmost delicacy in that I am not publicly exposed. Terrible,
(23:46):
terrible buddy, buddy buddy. I mean, tell yourself, why don't
you right now? I'm your quotation is amazing. I'm saying, buddy, buddy,
buddy to our boy or Broubison or whatever. The frick
Ammerman is understandably completely weirded out by this. The price
is also much lower than anything that would be considered
(24:09):
above board should possibly be for such an artifact. So
he contacted the FBI, like you do. Who at this
point had already gotten the word from NASA about the
stolen goods.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
Don't doom, don't dum dum dum doom.
Speaker 3 (24:25):
Doom, seriously bone headed stuff.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
So undercover agents decide to pose as the American relatives
of Axel Emmerman, and they say, okay, we're going to
meet up with you on July twentieth, two thousand and two,
and we hope to god it wasn't olive Garden and
that they got bottomless breadsticks. Of course, when you're there,
(24:49):
your family. When you're there, your family. So coincidentally, this
was also the thirty third anniversary of the moon landing
the Apollo eleven mission. So that Roberts arrives at this
Italian restaurant and he is a little bit tired because
(25:10):
he's been driving from Houston to Florida. It's a long drive,
and he he makes a joke because again he's not
the brightest crayon in the box. He says, I'm just
hoping you don't have a wire on you.
Speaker 3 (25:26):
Kuck kuck. FBI agent Lynn Billings, who set across from
him at the restaurant, was indeed wearing a wire, capturing
his hilarious tone deaf line for posterity. Despite this, audio
recordings of the meeting revealed that Roberts and his accomplices
were completely taken in by the rousse.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
No you think, oh this sounds great. You guys, so
you're related to Emmerman, You're related to Axel Immerman. You
know what, can we get some more Brett six? Yeah,
like as a kid.
Speaker 3 (26:01):
So Roberts admitted that he was so excited that he
couldn't even finish his bottomless bread sticks. He only had
one round of bread sticks. And McWhorter even tipped a
waitress thirty dollars just to cheer her up, just to
make her have a brighter day. Remember these are also
interns in their early twenties, giving off mega early twenties energy.
The undercover agents accompany the group back to their room
(26:21):
at the Sheridan, of course, of course, the old, the
famous Orlando Sheridan, home to many acon to Sechacan like
a conference and also cons apparently soon surfee anyhow, which
were being kept the goods that is, in a tackle box.
And that's when Thad Roberts, Tiffany Fowler, and Gordon McWhorter
were arrested on the spot.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
Ah for theft of government property and interstate transportation of
said property of stolen goods. They got swarmed by forty
federal agents. Armed agents. By the way, helicopters were coming in.
The freeway got shut down just in case they were
(27:02):
clever enough to have a burner car. And the person
we mentioned earlier, Shay Sower, who did not go with him,
was arrested later that very same day in Houston, Texas. Now,
our buddy that Roberts consummate romantic, as he said, he's
(27:27):
jammed up in a Florida jail for sixteen months, a
waiting trial, and he's a waiting trial because he called
his parents for help with the bail money and his
parents said no.
Speaker 3 (27:41):
I mean, he was already kind of on their shiit
list for that premarital sex snapper right that they did
not approve of, and they had apparently said to him previously.
I don't know how this comes up, but I guess
it does that if any of his children ever got
into jail, he would make sure they stayed there as
long as possible, and then he was basically getting what
(28:02):
he deserved.
Speaker 2 (28:04):
Yeah, And Thad Roberts claims that he wrote a novel
about his time. We looked into it. It has not
been widely published, but perhaps we can read it. One day,
the FBI went and searched Thad roberts apartment to see
if there were any more stolen moon rocks. And you
(28:26):
know what they found, Not moon rocks, but fossils that
he had stolen from his time at the Utah Museum
of Natural History.
Speaker 3 (28:36):
This guy's just insatiable in his thirst for stealing historical artifacts.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
Yeah, and apparently he was called a master manipulator in
October two thousand and three. Yeah, we don't think he's
that great. No, we don't think he is.
Speaker 3 (28:52):
This is the court rhetoric.
Speaker 2 (28:54):
Yeah, yeah, Judge and c Conway calls him that she
doubles the sentence seen guideline and knocks them up for
eight years in the federal pin. The other two accomplices,
Tiffany Fowler Chaiseauer, are given more lenient sentences because they cooperate.
Speaker 3 (29:13):
Imagine this must have probably put it into their astronautical
career pursuits, or at least Tiffany's.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
I love the idea that there might be some black
bag NASA contingent, right, that that pulls you out of
the pen and says, you're exactly what we're looking for.
We're putting you together with a team of oil drillers.
Speaker 4 (29:35):
Yeah yeah, or like the slow horses in the British
that's like where the all the really crappy disgraced agents go.
You know, yeah that are podcasting right, So, uh, these
these other two accomplices, their sentence is much reduced. They
get one hundred and eighty days of house arrest, which
(29:55):
honestly sounds kind of fun. And then they get one
hundred and fifty hours of community service, which is a
good thing you should do anyway. You should always try
to help out the community around you. And then they're
on probation for three years.
Speaker 3 (30:12):
Not too bad, not too shabby. But again they got
a record probably not ever gonna be able to work
in the sciences. Dare we say ever again?
Speaker 2 (30:21):
Yeah, like you said, they're going to be on the
slow horses end of that for sure.
Speaker 3 (30:27):
Yeah. And the FBI actually explained in a press release
the severity of the incident, saying that the young thieves
did more than just try to sell off a collection
of lunar samples in the process. And this is funny
because this is referenced by fat himself as a justification,
saying this was not true and didn't matter. In the process,
(30:47):
the FBI said, they also contaminated them, making them virtually
useless to the scientific community. So I don't know that
justification maybe didn't hold water, or it was very much
what it was, just just that a justification, because who
is he to say? It's another one of those moments
of just like, I know better, and therefore it's something
you see all the time in sociopathic behavior, someone thinking
(31:09):
that they are the ultimate authority on what's right and
what's wrong, and they have their own kind of code.
They also destroyed three decades worth of handwritten research notes
by a NASA scientist. Didn't talk about this that, did you?
That had been locked in the safe.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
Yeah, we're all wondering about the fourth guy, Gordon mcward.
Gordon got jammed up hard, Okay, he got sentenced to
six years in prison, and he was, in our opinion,
rightly pissed about this. He would later go on to
state quote, I use the Internet for two hours and
(31:46):
got six years. I'm not a terrorist. I'm a college
kid who got caught up in a glorified fraternity prank.
Speaker 3 (31:54):
Jeez Jesus, these folks are so good at justification, shall
I say, rather bad at justification.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
Yeah, well we'll have to ask them. We also want
to note that two other significant pieces of NASA history
were missing at the time of the crime. They are
not recovered as we record today. The first is you'll
love this or your friend who doesn't believe in the
moon Noel will love this. The original videotapes of the
(32:24):
nineteen sixty nine Apollo eleven lunar landing proof are are gone.
Speaker 3 (32:29):
Proof positive that doesn't exist. They don't want they don't
want you to know. If you had the videotapes, you'd
be able to see Kubrick in the background framing up
the shot.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
I love that joke from Mitchell and Webb. The idea
is that Kubrick is such an odd tour that he
faked the moon landing, but he had to go to
the Moon to fake it.
Speaker 3 (32:53):
Yeah, that's like something Christopher Nolan would do. There's all
these jokes about him actually detonating an atomic bomb to
make op.
Speaker 2 (32:59):
And yeah, just to keep it accurate and due to
oh the other thing missing. Six folders of more mysterious
content supposedly in that safe. Would that be the handwritten
notes referred to by NASA authorities, We don't know. Thad
Roberts claims he never saw him, and that Roberts is
(33:22):
never going to walk on the moon. He can never
become an astronaut. Things did not work out with him
and Tiffany Fowler. He also was get this, folks, married
to someone else during the entire time. The person he
was married to was a resident of Utah when that
(33:46):
went to NASA in Houston, Texas, and she filed for
divorce as soon as the story hit the news. Ultimately,
your buddy fed is serving six years at the Federal
correct Institution in Florence, Colorado. And then he writes a
thesis of five hundred page thesis and we would just
(34:11):
love to give you the title, folks. It is available
now on Amazon.
Speaker 3 (34:15):
Yeah, and let me just say that is nobody's buddy.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
That sucks.
Speaker 3 (34:21):
I'm sorry, he's just boil boy everything. All the worst
parts of like elitism and privilege represents it here and
just this idea that like, no, no, no, this is
totally I'm doing God's work here. I am the one
that's going to forward science with my very very selfish acts.
Speaker 2 (34:39):
Guys, I read about the Bible, and you know what
I figured out. I'm Jesus, actually says every cult leader. Yeah, uh, Noel.
Can you give us the title of this prison thesis?
Speaker 3 (34:52):
Yeah, yes, super humble title here, five hundred page thesis
entitled Einstein's Intuition Visualizing an eleven dimensional Framework of Nature
an Introduction to Quantum Space Theory, which you can now
get as an ebook on Amazon if you wish.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
And he was a model prisoner. He did get a
telescope and he taught an astronomy class while in the pen.
Why are we speaking in past tense, Well, that's because
that Roberts was released from prison in early two thousand
and eight and has become a theoretical physicist. Has Ah
(35:35):
has straightened up his life. And well, folks, let's see
what you make of his quotation to NBC News when
he was asked about his previous crimes.
Speaker 3 (35:47):
Well, jeez, Ben, I guess this totally goes against my
theory that all of these folks would be completely shunned
by the scientific community. We will, however, say that these
federal convictions would prohibit him from ever becoming a NASA
astronaut again, but he had this to say, I, like
many others, am filled with awe and I reflect upon
how those rocks demonstrate humanity's limitless potential. Is this what
(36:08):
he said to the parole board. This is great, but
that awe does not live within those rocks. It belongs
to all of us. From experience, I can say that
there are more appropriate and more productive ways to come
face to face with our magnificent insignificance than stealing a
piece of the moon. Whatever you do, don't repeat my mistakes.
Speaker 2 (36:29):
Convince it.
Speaker 3 (36:33):
I know I'm a little skeptic.
Speaker 2 (36:34):
I'm a little skeptical to be.
Speaker 3 (36:36):
I saw you, I saw that very reasonable. Irol you're
not really.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
I mean look, he also gets asked about whether or
not he can become an astronaut, and based on our
previous conversation these past two episodes, you can tell that
Noel Max and yours truly are what we would call
big skeptic about this. However, Thad Roberts remains optimistic and maybe,
(37:03):
listening to this podcast today, said the following, anything's possible.
I think it's gonna still make a run for space.
The private industry is still maybe going on. This might
be the big thing of our lifetime, and if it is,
I'm going to try to find a way to go.
Maybe I can pick up a moon rock legally this time,
(37:24):
one that I can keep put on my mantle and
not have to keep it a secret.
Speaker 3 (37:28):
Well, Ben, we didn't even talk about this. I mean,
one of the biggest space programs around Private is run
by a pretty outwardly megalomaniacal creep. So maybe he and
Saddle I'll get along just fine. I'm just saying the
idea of like NASA being the only path to space
is no longer the case, and we are living in
(37:50):
a time where bona fides are less and less important
and it's more about kind of who you know looking
at you, Katie Perry.
Speaker 2 (37:57):
The post truth environment, and yes, my wonderful co host
Dol Brown is still mad at Katie Perry.
Speaker 3 (38:05):
I'm not mad at Katy Perry. Let hard to do
what you want. It was just a really, it was
just such a tonel bungled Yes, publicity stunt, Yes, I do.
Speaker 2 (38:16):
I do love it though, and we hope that you
love these episodes. Thanks again to our research associate JR.
Jordan run Tall you can find him on multiple other shows.
I really like a lot of his work, Noel, can
you pitch some of the other endeavors of our boy.
Speaker 3 (38:35):
He's got a great podcast that publishes pretty regularly called
Too Much Information or TMI for short, where he delves
into all kinds of pop culture shenanigans with his co host.
And he's also we and he and I have worked
together on some shows in the past, one about David
Bowie's life that you can find just search for David
Bowie podcast, and one about the Rolling Stones storied exile
(38:58):
on Main Street album and tour that we did with
some of the folks who were actually around for those
moments of chaos, debauchery and sometimes genius. So yeah, do
check out. He's also got printed work that you can
find in various publications of note, including Rolling Stone and
People Magazine. He's written, you know, profiles on everyone from
(39:19):
Paul McCartney to James Taylor. So he's a real music
head and we really appreciate him bringing us this incredible
heist story about Moon Rocks.
Speaker 2 (39:30):
Agreed and also big thanks to our super producer mister
Max Williams. Huge thanks to Alex Williams. Max's biological brother
who composed this slap in bop. And again, we just
want to make a PSA for one person in the crowd,
Jonathan Strickland aka the Quister, Please turn in the moon rocks.
Speaker 3 (39:54):
You know you did, you know, and you know what
you did. Yeah, And I'd like to offer one last
little thanks to Puppy Apolo, who's our own little little
space dog mascot for this pair of episodes. So Paula
waves goodbye to you lovely folks out there. We'll see
you next time, folks. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit
(40:22):
the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to
your favorite shows.
Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Welcome back to the show, fellow Ridiculous Historians. Thank you,
as always so much for joining us. Let's give a
shout out to our fellow moon Man of Positive Lunatic
super producer, mister Max Williams.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
A lunatic. Get it like lunar? A lunar. Yeah, that's good,
it's good. Remember I remember that band. I think they
are like a riot crow band called the Lunatics. That's
I do. That's fine. I'm Noel, your Ben. We're having
fun talking about moon rocks, talking about people stealing them, misbehaving.
Episode one was pretty much all about the history of
(01:00):
moon rocks and their placed in American culture and Tricky
Dicky Nixon messing things up, you know, causing some of
them to go missing. But that wasn't exactly a heist.
That was more a case of incompetence and people just
kind of having some oopsis and losing the moon rocks.
The what were they called, Ben, Goodwill moon rocks.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Previously on Ridiculous History, we discussed everything that you've excellently
recapped their nol the good will moon rocks given out
during the Tricky Dick administration, there were two hundred and
seventy of these very small samples of lunar material taken
(01:44):
by the Apollo missions, given out often unilaterally by the
President of the time, Richard Nixon. However, as we learned previously,
not only were a bunch of those mislaid, stolen or
simply lost, there was a guy who's a real hero,
(02:05):
a real Indiana Jones, who has been hunting these down
for the good grace of the United States. That's the
ex US Military Intelligence Officer NAS investigator Joseph Gutes. And
now in part two, we're getting to something we and
(02:25):
our pal Jordan liked to call sex on.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
The moon, which is not just a bangingly delicious cocktail
that should exist. If it doesn't, what would be in
that moon juice? That's not a thing. We'll workshop that one.
We have indeed arrived at what our buddy Jr. Describes
(02:49):
as the most famous instance of missing and misused moon rocks.
In July of two thousand and two, a guy named
fad Fattius Roberts. I'm adding the fattiest boy do I
hope that is short for Thadeus, twenty five year old
intern in NASA's elite cooperative education program orchestrates boldly goes,
(03:09):
but not to space. He goes into a life of
crime in the form of a heist that will go
down in history, at least the history of NASA. The
theft of seventeen pounds of Apollo moon rocks. Valued and
here we go. We promised it. Here it is valued.
It between seven million and twenty one million US dollars
(03:30):
plus BLUs for good measure of Martian mediaite.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
Yeah. I was gonna say, but wait, there's more. A
meteorite were at It descended from Mars.
Speaker 3 (03:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
This guy, Thad Roberts, who we mentioned in part one.
He's you know, he's mid twenties. He's up and coming.
He's looking at the vast chasms of space, the deep ink,
and the world in which we revolve, And he says
why not. So he has a girlfriend. This is a
(04:03):
romance story. She is also an intern at NASA. Her
name is Tiffany Fowler. And they pick up in accomplice
who is also an intern. This is Shay soer So
like last name sore Sour, like the end of Dinosaur
spelled a little different. They use their work ideas and
(04:26):
the trust of their cohorts and superiors to steal these
priceless materials. They get the codes for the locks, they
rewire the surveillance, and they they've got I'll say it,
absolutely lunar balls. They get a lot of hutsban this.
(04:47):
They do something that is positively cinematic. It's a six
hundred and one pounds safe and at first get this,
NASA doesn't even realize they got got.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
Yeah, I mean, they definitely approached this with mission impossible
levels of planning. You got to give him credit for that,
But boy, what a stupid thing to do. And we're
going to get more into that because the plan ultimately
failed because Thad's levels of confidence seemed to exceed his
criminal prowess and he ended up spending years behind bars.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
Right, and the old poet Burns would say, man's reach
must exceed his grasp. Else what's a heaven for? Unfortunately,
you cannot plead that in a US court. Let's go
to New York Times journalist Ben Mesrich. He wrote a
book about this, and he called it Sex on the Moon.
In an interview with CBS News in twenty twelve, he
(05:45):
said that Roberts is the most complicated person I've ever
written about. He's an incredibly complex character. And I've written
about Mark Zuckerberg. I've always been writing about these genius
kids who live in that gray area between right and wrong.
And here's this kid who basically does a one hundred
yard sprint through that gray area right into the black
(06:10):
area to your point earlier. In all the black area
I think means.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
Crime, I would think. So. Have you seen the new
Alien series on Hulu, Ben, Alien Earth?
Speaker 2 (06:20):
Not yet? I'm very excited.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
It's good and there's a really awesome character who's like
exactly what is being described here, the kind of overly educated,
perhaps gifted, with a little too much power and confidence.
And he's got the best name. He's referred to often
as the boy genius, but his name is the Boy Cavalier,
(06:42):
and I just I love everything about it. Some people
are all iffy about the series, but I'm into it
so far. But similarly complex character who himself tends to
dip his toe in that black area. So prior to
his incarceration, Roberts aspired to be an astronaut like you, Ben,
Maybe not a werewolf fashionaut, but an astronaut just the same.
(07:04):
In addition to earning a triple degree in physics, geology,
and geophysics at the University of Utah, he was also
a licensed pilot and a scuba diver, which will come
into play in the order of events regarding the heists.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
Yeah, and with all these bona fides, he is entered
into NASA's co Op program. Now, no, I know you
always wanted to go to Space Camp. I would say,
cut past Space Camp and go to this program. It's
pretty prestigious.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
It absolutely is. It only accepts six percent of applicants.
That's quite an elite number there. Despite his impressive accomplishments,
Roberts was super shy, didn't possess the most high levels
of people's skills. He was also quite insecure. He went
through a bit of a tough upbringing where he was
disowned by, as you may have gathered from the University
(07:58):
of Utah, his de out Mormon family when they discovered
that he had had premarital sex with his then girlfriend,
which is a megan. No, now, so he was, you know,
borderline shunned. That's not I know that's a that's an
amish thing, but I think the term still applies here.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
Yeah, yeah, he was in a tough spot. And in
this tough spot, he meets Tiffany Fowler, the other intern
we mentioned earlier. She is twenty two years old. He
is on a late night beach. Hag. It's the perfect
meet cute. He will later go on to tell the
La Times in two thousand and four the following when
(08:38):
I met Tiffany, says Roberts. We talked for fourteen hours straight.
She was blonde, blue eyed, of very toned. She was
way out of my league. She was a former cheerleader.
And at the time she is interning at NASA's Tissue
Culture Laboratory. They're conducting stem cell research. Please, let's all
(09:00):
remember that NASA does a lot of astonishing, very important science.
They both dig each other. Tiffany Fowler later goes on
to say, this guy is very intelligent. He's pretty much
good at everything. To your point, Noel, I think that
triple degree would argue the same. So look, they meet
(09:26):
up and they have a great time. And then later
our buddy Tad, just like a few weeks after their
meet coot on the night beach, he moves in to
Tiffany's apartment and he says he's been pretty consistent about this.
He says he wanted to do this Moon Rock and
(09:50):
Martian heist as a romantic gesture. It's not about the money.
It's because I love you.
Speaker 3 (09:57):
Yeah. It seems quite misplayed, wrapped up in some of
the complexities of this individual's upbringing and that perfect storm
of insecurity and intelligence. It's very odd. It's an odd
thing to you know. I'm all about a grand gesture
(10:18):
when it comes to the ways of romance, but this
just seems quite ill informed and very specific.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
And he again, back to the La Times interview, our
buddy Thad says, I was in love with Tiffany in
my mind. I was thinking, to your point, all about
misplaced good intentions. He says, literally, I was thinking, baby,
I'd give you the moon. It would be a romantic
(10:46):
start to our relationship.
Speaker 3 (10:49):
What is he like a character and the Honeymooners. He's
just like, maybe I'd give you that moon. And it
just sounds like something like a fifty sitcom star would say.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
It's also an appeal to emotion that does it really
deliver because later research would prove that that Roberts came
up with this plan to steal lunar material and sell
it to her private collector months before the meet cute
at night on the beach. She's just kind of convenient
(11:19):
for this, you know.
Speaker 3 (11:21):
Yeah, that's what Okay, I'm with this, La Times writer.
This is indeed a complex character.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
A little bit sociopathic.
Speaker 3 (11:29):
I think so too. And let's also, you know, to
your point bend exercise a little empathy. I would argue
the literalness of a lot of these things implies a
position somewhere on the far end of the spectrum.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
I hear you. Yeah, he did have a buyer lined up,
which we'll get to in a moment. And in later
conversations postbust, by the way, obviously Thad gets busted. In
later conversations, he gets confronted with proof that there was
a financial rather than romantic motivation here, at least at
(12:05):
the beginning. And he sticks with the story, right, He
sticks with the story of a lover gone wrong. And
he said, in my own head, stealing something wasn't the
way I looked at it. We weren't going to take
this money we're getting from it to go buy a
yacht or lots of cars or a big house. We
were going to live just the small kind of lifestyle,
(12:28):
but fun science that might change the world, you.
Speaker 3 (12:31):
Know, soleusions of grandeur much holy cow, this dude. It's
probably a good time to note that between their first
meetings and the night of the theft, robertson Tiffany had
known each other for all of about three weeks. When
asked about this, Roberts explained, I don't think that kind
of connection that people really desire requires much time. Okay,
(12:53):
love at first sight kind of cat a real hopeless
romantic when you know, you know, Okay, I don't know
about that. So let's get into what's the plot. The scheme,
as Jordan puts it, one dumb step for man beautiful.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
So our buddy Thad is moved in with this lady's Mett,
Tiffany Fowler, and he tells her, beb, I love you.
I got this idea. Let's steal you know, rocks but
like moon rocks, and she goes, oh my god, be byeb.
Speaker 3 (13:38):
They're also now all of a sudden they have transmorphed
into the Californians, which I am here for.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
Yes, yeah, yeah, And we are not giving you accurate impressions.
We're doing impressions that we find.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
Hilarious impressions of impressions, at least the impressions that exist
in our mind of what these people may or may
not have sounded like, Yeah, what is that thing that
that Joker movie that tanked that phenomenon where two people
kind of make each other co crazy folly a dude,
that's the wine. I think there's a bit of that
going on here, because she was not a passive bystander
and all that, she was not just the object of
(14:13):
this bonker's you know, grand gesture of affection. She urged
him on. Not only did she urge him on, she
offered to be his accomplice.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
Yeah, yeah, not a sidekick, a co conspirator. And they
did have a good case in that they weren't planning
to harm anyone. They weren't planning to injure people. They
weren't planning to you know, do headshots or anything like that.
And the rationalized they rationalized this mission by saying, look,
(14:50):
these rocks had already been contaminated, right, so maybe they
aren't worthwhile to science, to scientific research and in depth.
And I'm gonna be honest, as former President Biden was
wont to say, that's malarkey.
Speaker 3 (15:06):
Malarkey. Indeed. I mean, sure, one person's space trash is
another person's space treasure. But like you said, Ben, all
of this appears to be some pretty circular reasoning trying
to justify, you know, doing a crime. So on one
rainy Saturday evening in July of two thousand and two, Roberts,
Tiffany Fowler, and Shay Souer pulled up to Houston's Johnson's
(15:31):
Space Center in a Jeep Cherokee Classic heightst vehicle. If
you ask me, The guard recognized Roberts as he was
a known entity around there and the fact that this
wasn't his normal vehicle, So he inquired, quite reasonably, you
get a new call and this guy's from Boston, No, sir,
he responded, that's that I borrowed. It's to help a
(15:52):
friend move.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
And that guy's Matt Berry.
Speaker 3 (15:55):
Playing question, that's the only impression that.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
So if this helps our Bostonian not really Bustonian security
guard wave them through and the accomplices get to Building
thirty one and this is where allegedly they begin rewiring
the security cameras. Good question, though, how did they do that?
(16:22):
How did they know where the cameras were Anyway, fast
forwarding through this, their accomplice Shay is waiting in the
car keeping an eye on these rewired cameras, and Tiffany
and Thad into the building. They use a key code
that they got from a former coworker, and then they
(16:43):
don't this is so cool, Mexican. We get some heist music,
make it real, mission impossible, Ocean's eleven perfect, So they
get this. They put on neopering bodysuits so that they
won't admit heat that would set off a thermal alarm,
(17:03):
and the rocks are kept in an airless vacuum. So
this is where the scuba stuff you mentioned earlier comes in. Noel,
they bring along breathing paraphernalia from Thad Roberts scuba gear.
I just got to say, at this point, ethics aside,
I'm impressed.
Speaker 3 (17:23):
I'm impressed too. The rewiring of the cameras alone hadn't me. Unfortunately,
by the time they entered the room with the rocks,
they only had about three minutes to figure out how
to crack the safe before they had run out of
oxygen from those breathing apparatuses. The clock is indeed ticking.
They decided to simply load the entire six This reminds
me of like someone's stealing an ATM, you know, figure
(17:44):
out what to do with it. Later, six pounds safe
onto a dolly and wheeled it out to their car.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
What could go wrong?
Speaker 3 (17:55):
Yeah, this was literally sagging the suspension of the gene.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
Yeah. Yeah, So the jeep is dragging, and they make
it by the security right, because they've already been allowed in,
it's easier to get out, right, And so two days
later it takes a full forty eight hours, NASA notices, Hey,
(18:18):
our six hundred and one pounds safe is not where
it was earlier. What could have happened? They look around,
Thad Roberts, Tiffany Fowler left, no fingerprints, no hair, no
security footage, Shay is a ghost. And in the wind
they pulled off the perfect heist. And then they get romantic.
(18:44):
They drive to the Houston suburb of Clear Lake.
Speaker 3 (18:48):
This is the moment in the movie where the star
crossed lovers who have just like robbed a bank or
something get it on in a pile of cash, only
a much nerd your version, much nerdier they at least.
Sad says in an interview that once they finally cracked
open the safe. Took them a while. He knew what
(19:10):
they had to do. He says, I take some of
the moon rocks and I put them underneath the blanket
on the bed, and then we made love.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
I never said anything, but I'm sure she could feel it,
this guy, but she's crazy.
Speaker 3 (19:22):
I bet she could feel it.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
Princess and the Peace story, Yeah, oh geez, he said.
It was more about the symbol of what we were doing,
basically having sex on the moon. It's more uncomfortable than not.
But it wasn't about the comfort at that point. It
was about the expression.
Speaker 3 (19:42):
The psycho this guy is nuts. Come on, I'm sorry,
I'm not mental health shaming here, but this dude is unwell.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
And no, he's great at yoga. Can you imagine patting
your back that consistently.
Speaker 3 (19:54):
Well, yeah, that's exactly right. But we're seeing a lot
of these delusions of grandeur. We're seeing a lot of
these just absolute you know, the moments of megalomania and delusion,
pure delusion, not just of grandeur. So once that deed
that you know, Rocky uncomfortable deed had been artistic expression,
(20:15):
fair enough, I'm sure they had to get some kinks
out of their backs, and also no kink shaming here.
Of doing it on moon rocks is your thing. By
all means, go with God, just don't steal them from
the government. It was, in fact now time to fence
the stolen moon rocks, including the lightly sullied ones, the
sext ones lightly sext.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
Which bite fetch a higher price. I don't know, maybe
after the fact, maybe maybe. Yeah. So there's this guy
that is going to function as their fence. His name
is Gordon mcward and Jordan just absolutely loves this guy's name.
So they go to a mineralogy website and they list
(20:59):
the these pieces of lunar material for between two thousand
and eight thousand, gray four less dollars.
Speaker 3 (21:08):
Priceless stolen moon rocks. Nothing to see here, folks, don't
don't don't dig too deep. Everything's above board. We assure you.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
They didn't say stolen.
Speaker 3 (21:17):
But I'm just saying, where else are they gonna come from?
This is in the midst of a moon rock heist,
unless these were some of the remaining a good will
moon rocks that had surfaced. But as we know, our
dogged investigator of the moon rock whatever Society he would
have known. It just seems like a real boneheaded thing
(21:38):
to advertise this in a public forum.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
My guy, check out the pseudonym that Gordon mcwarter real
Dave Gordon mcwater used this pseudonym. Are you ready orb Robinson?
Speaker 3 (21:52):
Orb?
Speaker 2 (21:52):
Are you kidding me?
Speaker 3 (21:54):
I would have gone with Roy Orbison. That would have
been final.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
I think that's where they were coming pretty soon.
Speaker 3 (21:59):
They were We're all going to be crying.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
Right right? Yeah? Oh manh yeah. And I guess that
would say that it was all for a pretty woman.
If you have an interest and if you have an
interest the the listing reads in purchasing a rare and
historically significant piece of the moon, and would like more information,
(22:23):
then please contact me by email and leave your contact
information and an explanation of your interest. Sincerely, orb So bad,
It's bad, so bad. Oh, it's so like not good
operational security.
Speaker 3 (22:41):
It just seems like up to this point they'd done
everything so relatively smartly, aside from the you know, moonrock
sex being a little odd and I'm not really having
a plan to crack the safe, but they got out
of there. They were kind of free and clear at
this point. How do we get them, busted man, that's
what I I want to know.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
Oh gosh, yeah, there's a Belgian mineral collector named Axel Emmerman,
and he reaches out. He responds to Orb, and Orb
says the following, H and folks, ridiculous historians. You listen
to this and tell us if it sounds suspicious to you.
(23:22):
H Noel, can you do the honors on this quotation?
Speaker 3 (23:26):
This response, as you well know, it is illegal to
sell Apollo lunar rocks in the United States, as obviously
has not discouraged me since I live in the United States. However,
I must be cautious that this deal is handled with
the utmost delicacy in that I am not publicly exposed. Terrible,
(23:46):
terrible buddy, buddy buddy. I mean, tell yourself, why don't
you right now? I'm your quotation is amazing. I'm saying, buddy, buddy,
buddy to our boy or Broubison or whatever. The frick
Ammerman is understandably completely weirded out by this. The price
is also much lower than anything that would be considered
(24:09):
above board should possibly be for such an artifact. So
he contacted the FBI, like you do. Who at this
point had already gotten the word from NASA about the
stolen goods.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
Don't doom, don't dum dum dum doom.
Speaker 3 (24:25):
Doom, seriously bone headed stuff.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
So undercover agents decide to pose as the American relatives
of Axel Emmerman, and they say, okay, we're going to
meet up with you on July twentieth, two thousand and two,
and we hope to god it wasn't olive Garden and
that they got bottomless breadsticks. Of course, when you're there,
(24:49):
your family. When you're there, your family. So coincidentally, this
was also the thirty third anniversary of the moon landing
the Apollo eleven mission. So that Roberts arrives at this
Italian restaurant and he is a little bit tired because
(25:10):
he's been driving from Houston to Florida. It's a long drive,
and he he makes a joke because again he's not
the brightest crayon in the box. He says, I'm just
hoping you don't have a wire on you.
Speaker 3 (25:26):
Kuck kuck. FBI agent Lynn Billings, who set across from
him at the restaurant, was indeed wearing a wire, capturing
his hilarious tone deaf line for posterity. Despite this, audio
recordings of the meeting revealed that Roberts and his accomplices
were completely taken in by the rousse.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
No you think, oh this sounds great. You guys, so
you're related to Emmerman, You're related to Axel Immerman. You
know what, can we get some more Brett six? Yeah,
like as a kid.
Speaker 3 (26:01):
So Roberts admitted that he was so excited that he
couldn't even finish his bottomless bread sticks. He only had
one round of bread sticks. And McWhorter even tipped a
waitress thirty dollars just to cheer her up, just to
make her have a brighter day. Remember these are also
interns in their early twenties, giving off mega early twenties energy.
The undercover agents accompany the group back to their room
(26:21):
at the Sheridan, of course, of course, the old, the
famous Orlando Sheridan, home to many acon to Sechacan like
a conference and also cons apparently soon surfee anyhow, which
were being kept the goods that is, in a tackle box.
And that's when Thad Roberts, Tiffany Fowler, and Gordon McWhorter
were arrested on the spot.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
Ah for theft of government property and interstate transportation of
said property of stolen goods. They got swarmed by forty
federal agents. Armed agents. By the way, helicopters were coming in.
The freeway got shut down just in case they were
(27:02):
clever enough to have a burner car. And the person
we mentioned earlier, Shay Sower, who did not go with him,
was arrested later that very same day in Houston, Texas. Now,
our buddy that Roberts consummate romantic, as he said, he's
(27:27):
jammed up in a Florida jail for sixteen months, a
waiting trial, and he's a waiting trial because he called
his parents for help with the bail money and his
parents said no.
Speaker 3 (27:41):
I mean, he was already kind of on their shiit
list for that premarital sex snapper right that they did
not approve of, and they had apparently said to him previously.
I don't know how this comes up, but I guess
it does that if any of his children ever got
into jail, he would make sure they stayed there as
long as possible, and then he was basically getting what
(28:02):
he deserved.
Speaker 2 (28:04):
Yeah, And Thad Roberts claims that he wrote a novel
about his time. We looked into it. It has not
been widely published, but perhaps we can read it. One day,
the FBI went and searched Thad roberts apartment to see
if there were any more stolen moon rocks. And you
(28:26):
know what they found, Not moon rocks, but fossils that
he had stolen from his time at the Utah Museum
of Natural History.
Speaker 3 (28:36):
This guy's just insatiable in his thirst for stealing historical artifacts.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
Yeah, and apparently he was called a master manipulator in
October two thousand and three. Yeah, we don't think he's
that great. No, we don't think he is.
Speaker 3 (28:52):
This is the court rhetoric.
Speaker 2 (28:54):
Yeah, yeah, Judge and c Conway calls him that she
doubles the sentence seen guideline and knocks them up for
eight years in the federal pin. The other two accomplices,
Tiffany Fowler Chaiseauer, are given more lenient sentences because they cooperate.
Speaker 3 (29:13):
Imagine this must have probably put it into their astronautical
career pursuits, or at least Tiffany's.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
I love the idea that there might be some black
bag NASA contingent, right, that that pulls you out of
the pen and says, you're exactly what we're looking for.
We're putting you together with a team of oil drillers.
Speaker 4 (29:35):
Yeah yeah, or like the slow horses in the British
that's like where the all the really crappy disgraced agents go.
You know, yeah that are podcasting right, So, uh, these
these other two accomplices, their sentence is much reduced. They
get one hundred and eighty days of house arrest, which
(29:55):
honestly sounds kind of fun. And then they get one
hundred and fifty hours of community service, which is a
good thing you should do anyway. You should always try
to help out the community around you. And then they're
on probation for three years.
Speaker 3 (30:12):
Not too bad, not too shabby. But again they got
a record probably not ever gonna be able to work
in the sciences. Dare we say ever again?
Speaker 2 (30:21):
Yeah, like you said, they're going to be on the
slow horses end of that for sure.
Speaker 3 (30:27):
Yeah. And the FBI actually explained in a press release
the severity of the incident, saying that the young thieves
did more than just try to sell off a collection
of lunar samples in the process. And this is funny
because this is referenced by fat himself as a justification,
saying this was not true and didn't matter. In the process,
(30:47):
the FBI said, they also contaminated them, making them virtually
useless to the scientific community. So I don't know that
justification maybe didn't hold water, or it was very much
what it was, just just that a justification, because who
is he to say? It's another one of those moments
of just like, I know better, and therefore it's something
you see all the time in sociopathic behavior, someone thinking
(31:09):
that they are the ultimate authority on what's right and
what's wrong, and they have their own kind of code.
They also destroyed three decades worth of handwritten research notes
by a NASA scientist. Didn't talk about this that, did you?
That had been locked in the safe.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
Yeah, we're all wondering about the fourth guy, Gordon mcward.
Gordon got jammed up hard, Okay, he got sentenced to
six years in prison, and he was, in our opinion,
rightly pissed about this. He would later go on to
state quote, I use the Internet for two hours and
(31:46):
got six years. I'm not a terrorist. I'm a college
kid who got caught up in a glorified fraternity prank.
Speaker 3 (31:54):
Jeez Jesus, these folks are so good at justification, shall
I say, rather bad at justification.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
Yeah, well we'll have to ask them. We also want
to note that two other significant pieces of NASA history
were missing at the time of the crime. They are
not recovered as we record today. The first is you'll
love this or your friend who doesn't believe in the
moon Noel will love this. The original videotapes of the
(32:24):
nineteen sixty nine Apollo eleven lunar landing proof are are gone.
Speaker 3 (32:29):
Proof positive that doesn't exist. They don't want they don't
want you to know. If you had the videotapes, you'd
be able to see Kubrick in the background framing up
the shot.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
I love that joke from Mitchell and Webb. The idea
is that Kubrick is such an odd tour that he
faked the moon landing, but he had to go to
the Moon to fake it.
Speaker 3 (32:53):
Yeah, that's like something Christopher Nolan would do. There's all
these jokes about him actually detonating an atomic bomb to
make op.
Speaker 2 (32:59):
And yeah, just to keep it accurate and due to
oh the other thing missing. Six folders of more mysterious
content supposedly in that safe. Would that be the handwritten
notes referred to by NASA authorities, We don't know. Thad
Roberts claims he never saw him, and that Roberts is
(33:22):
never going to walk on the moon. He can never
become an astronaut. Things did not work out with him
and Tiffany Fowler. He also was get this, folks, married
to someone else during the entire time. The person he
was married to was a resident of Utah when that
(33:46):
went to NASA in Houston, Texas, and she filed for
divorce as soon as the story hit the news. Ultimately,
your buddy fed is serving six years at the Federal
correct Institution in Florence, Colorado. And then he writes a
thesis of five hundred page thesis and we would just
(34:11):
love to give you the title, folks. It is available
now on Amazon.
Speaker 3 (34:15):
Yeah, and let me just say that is nobody's buddy.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
That sucks.
Speaker 3 (34:21):
I'm sorry, he's just boil boy everything. All the worst
parts of like elitism and privilege represents it here and
just this idea that like, no, no, no, this is
totally I'm doing God's work here. I am the one
that's going to forward science with my very very selfish acts.
Speaker 2 (34:39):
Guys, I read about the Bible, and you know what
I figured out. I'm Jesus, actually says every cult leader. Yeah, uh, Noel.
Can you give us the title of this prison thesis?
Speaker 3 (34:52):
Yeah, yes, super humble title here, five hundred page thesis
entitled Einstein's Intuition Visualizing an eleven dimensional Framework of Nature
an Introduction to Quantum Space Theory, which you can now
get as an ebook on Amazon if you wish.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
And he was a model prisoner. He did get a
telescope and he taught an astronomy class while in the pen.
Why are we speaking in past tense, Well, that's because
that Roberts was released from prison in early two thousand
and eight and has become a theoretical physicist. Has Ah
(35:35):
has straightened up his life. And well, folks, let's see
what you make of his quotation to NBC News when
he was asked about his previous crimes.
Speaker 3 (35:47):
Well, jeez, Ben, I guess this totally goes against my
theory that all of these folks would be completely shunned
by the scientific community. We will, however, say that these
federal convictions would prohibit him from ever becoming a NASA
astronaut again, but he had this to say, I, like
many others, am filled with awe and I reflect upon
how those rocks demonstrate humanity's limitless potential. Is this what
(36:08):
he said to the parole board. This is great, but
that awe does not live within those rocks. It belongs
to all of us. From experience, I can say that
there are more appropriate and more productive ways to come
face to face with our magnificent insignificance than stealing a
piece of the moon. Whatever you do, don't repeat my mistakes.
Speaker 2 (36:29):
Convince it.
Speaker 3 (36:33):
I know I'm a little skeptic.
Speaker 2 (36:34):
I'm a little skeptical to be.
Speaker 3 (36:36):
I saw you, I saw that very reasonable. Irol you're
not really.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
I mean look, he also gets asked about whether or
not he can become an astronaut, and based on our
previous conversation these past two episodes, you can tell that
Noel Max and yours truly are what we would call
big skeptic about this. However, Thad Roberts remains optimistic and maybe,
(37:03):
listening to this podcast today, said the following, anything's possible.
I think it's gonna still make a run for space.
The private industry is still maybe going on. This might
be the big thing of our lifetime, and if it is,
I'm going to try to find a way to go.
Maybe I can pick up a moon rock legally this time,
(37:24):
one that I can keep put on my mantle and
not have to keep it a secret.
Speaker 3 (37:28):
Well, Ben, we didn't even talk about this. I mean,
one of the biggest space programs around Private is run
by a pretty outwardly megalomaniacal creep. So maybe he and
Saddle I'll get along just fine. I'm just saying the
idea of like NASA being the only path to space
is no longer the case, and we are living in
(37:50):
a time where bona fides are less and less important
and it's more about kind of who you know looking
at you, Katie Perry.
Speaker 2 (37:57):
The post truth environment, and yes, my wonderful co host
Dol Brown is still mad at Katie Perry.
Speaker 3 (38:05):
I'm not mad at Katy Perry. Let hard to do
what you want. It was just a really, it was
just such a tonel bungled Yes, publicity stunt, Yes, I do.
Speaker 2 (38:16):
I do love it though, and we hope that you
love these episodes. Thanks again to our research associate JR.
Jordan run Tall you can find him on multiple other shows.
I really like a lot of his work, Noel, can
you pitch some of the other endeavors of our boy.
Speaker 3 (38:35):
He's got a great podcast that publishes pretty regularly called
Too Much Information or TMI for short, where he delves
into all kinds of pop culture shenanigans with his co host.
And he's also we and he and I have worked
together on some shows in the past, one about David
Bowie's life that you can find just search for David
Bowie podcast, and one about the Rolling Stones storied exile
(38:58):
on Main Street album and tour that we did with
some of the folks who were actually around for those
moments of chaos, debauchery and sometimes genius. So yeah, do
check out. He's also got printed work that you can
find in various publications of note, including Rolling Stone and
People Magazine. He's written, you know, profiles on everyone from
(39:19):
Paul McCartney to James Taylor. So he's a real music
head and we really appreciate him bringing us this incredible
heist story about Moon Rocks.
Speaker 2 (39:30):
Agreed and also big thanks to our super producer mister
Max Williams. Huge thanks to Alex Williams. Max's biological brother
who composed this slap in bop. And again, we just
want to make a PSA for one person in the crowd,
Jonathan Strickland aka the Quister, Please turn in the moon rocks.
Speaker 3 (39:54):
You know you did, you know, and you know what
you did. Yeah, And I'd like to offer one last
little thanks to Puppy Apolo, who's our own little little
space dog mascot for this pair of episodes. So Paula
waves goodbye to you lovely folks out there. We'll see
you next time, folks. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit
(40:22):
the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to
your favorite shows.
Ridiculous History News
Hosts And Creators
Ben Bowlin
Noel Brown
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