October 30, 2025 • 32 mins
It's no secret that the Wonders of the Ancient World were pretty... wonderful -- yet also pretty mischaracterized. In today's episode, Ben, Noel, and Super Producer Max explore the phenonemal Temple of Artemis, which was built not once, not twice, but three separate times before it ultimately disappeared.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Welcome back to the show, fellow Ridiculous Historians. Thank you,
as always so much for tuning in. Let's hear it
for the wonder of the podcasting world, our super producer,
mister Max Williams.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
Is there anything more wonderful than a wonder Max?
Speaker 4 (00:42):
Wonders really are wonderful? Williams.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Yeah, that's Noel Brown. I'm Ben Bowlela. We're coming to
you live and direct, and we are going to roast
our brother and podcast arms a little bit here because
you are the research associate for this one. Max, you
wrote this sentence wonders are really are wonderful, and then
(01:07):
you appropriately roasted yourself because you knew I was gonna
do it if you did.
Speaker 4 (01:11):
That's a wonderful starting line, he says. Wonderful job there, Max,
and we're here for you to say the same thing.
Thank you, Max. What a wonderful compliment. That's you thinking yourself.
But we're also giving it to you as outsiders looking in.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
Yes, of course, Noel, can we say this part together,
the last sentence of that one?
Speaker 4 (01:28):
Oh gosh, yes, of course, Max. You are just wonderful,
wonderful man.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
This is a continuing series for us. We've got some
We've got more episodes on the way spoiler three, and
it's not going to end the way you think. This
one is part five of this series.
Speaker 4 (01:56):
It is the.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
Temple of Artemis, also as the Artemisia.
Speaker 4 (02:03):
Artemis is the one with the bow and arrow, right.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
Yes, yeah, basically, basically it's like a t MoU brand
of Diana.
Speaker 4 (02:11):
Yeah, Artemis, the Greek goddess of the hunt, always depicted
with a bow and arrow.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Yeah. So the Temple of Artemis, according to Ephesian tourism
and DMC is or was spoiler one of the seven
Wonders of the ancient world, and it is seen as
similar to like the Colossus of Rhodes. It's seen as
this testament to humanities, hold my beer approach to making
(02:41):
unnecessarily amazing things.
Speaker 4 (02:44):
Mortorline weird flexes. But okay, oh yeah, oh for sure.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
It's it was located in the city of Ephesius, which
is now part of modern day Turkey. A and it was,
you know, it was a temple, a sight of religious significance.
Before we get into the story, we got to understand
some of the context and the context that you so
(03:11):
beautifully foreshadowed there. Noel is the concept of Artemis in
general in Greek religion. Back in those days, as in
the modern day, you have to be kind of a
big deal to have a statue or a temple or
a building named after you.
Speaker 4 (03:28):
Truth. Yeah. No, nowadays you can commission one to be built,
you know.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
For yourself. Sure, maybe at the White House possibly cool.
Walk down the street from that one, we love down
down Kay Street. Ooh nice, Oh, I love that. Yeah.
So the thing that we adore about Greek mythology is
that it is a polytheistic enterprise. So Artemis is the
(03:58):
goddess of wild animal, the hunt, the goddess of vegetation,
the goddess of chastity, and paradoxically childbirth.
Speaker 4 (04:09):
Yeah, well, it's also paradoxical that she's the goddess of
wild animals, the hunt, and vegetables. She's a bit of
an omnivore.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
Yeah, that does feel like it's four point thirty on
a Friday and they're just figuring out attributes.
Speaker 4 (04:22):
Just chuck that one in there too, Just pop it
around for vegetables.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
Someone's like snapping their fingers in the pitch meeting and
they're going animals, also hunting animals.
Speaker 4 (04:32):
Minerals in there.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
Yeah yeah, yeah, And this this character, this concept, this
deity is later identified by the famous plagiariss the Romans
with Diane.
Speaker 4 (04:49):
Hey, you know, if you're gonna steal, steal, well they did.
They did a pretty good job, made it their own.
And yeah, she was a bit of a fan favorite, Artemis,
oh very much. She's the daughter of Zeus and Leto,
not Jared, and she is the twin sister of Apollo,
the god.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
Not your daughter.
Speaker 4 (05:10):
Oh yeah, that's been named after I do believe are
possibly named after Apollo Creek because he's tough, but so
was Apollo the gods. So yeah, like I was saying,
Among the locals, the rural populace, Artemis was a favorite
goddess because they really relied on the hunt. They relied
on crops, then she kind of and they relied on
(05:34):
healthy childbirth, you know, hopefully not dying in childbirth, which
was certainly a thing that happened more often than one
would like. So she represented a lot of things that
were very important to the average humans, the average citizens.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
Yeah, one hundred percent, dude. And also, like so many
other gods, in these pantheons, her aspects or specific functions,
the things people would worshiper for they varied over place
to place, right, So, you could go to one town
and they would be like, Artemis is awesome at vegetables.
(06:11):
You go to another town and they'd be like, Artemis
is awesome for chastity. And then you go to another
town they'd say, well, we're more into the childbirth aspect.
So apparently if you look at the forest instead of
just the individual trees of temples, behind all of the aspects,
(06:31):
there was this goddess who embodied wild nature, the forest,
the mountains, the marshes. She was the sportsman's ideal. So
in addition to killing wild game, she also protected wild animals.
She's like a problematic captain planet.
Speaker 4 (06:53):
Yeah, well, you know, I mean there's a balance to that, right,
I mean, even today we've got the whatever, the Fish
and Wildlife Organization. I'm sorry, I'm totally getting the name wrong,
but the idea of like you have to have a
hunting license so that you can balance out how many
animals are killed versus how many are born, et cetera.
Not going to say that it's a perfect science, but
this idea of the balance of nature is very important
(07:16):
even to this day and probably not honored nearly as
well as it was back under Artemis's watch.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
Yeah. Also, there were a lot more wild non human
animals back in the day. So we want to give
a special shout out to super producer research associate Max
Williams for shouting out the day dra from Elder Scrolls.
I know you well, bro her scene, that's a great reference.
(07:43):
You want to say something about her scene real quick?
Speaker 4 (07:47):
Nah?
Speaker 2 (07:48):
All right, fair enough Max, with the facts. Yeah, let's
do it. Also to follow up real quick for Skyrim fans,
(08:17):
you can get a ring of her scene, which allows
you more werewolf transformations.
Speaker 3 (08:21):
You also you can always get the high to here scene,
which you get from ripping the hide off of a werewolf.
Speaker 4 (08:26):
Yes, yes, graphic.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
So those are the two most important parts of this episode. Uh.
With that done, let's uh, let's talk a little bit
about the location of the Temple of Artemis, which leads
us to how it became a wonder of the world
in the first place.
Speaker 4 (08:43):
Well, yeah, you start hearing about a thesis around the
mid seventh century BCE Britannica rights that it was attacked
by Simrians, not Summarians. This is C I M M
E R I A N. That's not the same thing, right,
there's no So it's like codin. So for a part
(09:03):
of the early sixth century, it was under the rule
of tyrants. This is a you know, a ruling plundering
people essentially, you know, wreck shop and took over.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
Yeah, very much not a democracy. The might is right
rule is what decides the political machinations of the day.
So the issue here is very high stakes game of
throne stuff. We're talking about political alliances through marriage. So
(09:38):
our good friends in the town of Fijius are allied
by or allied by marriage to the kings of Lydia,
which means that this other dude, a Lydian guy named
Crosius runs the place. He has SU's ranity over it.
Speaker 4 (10:00):
You rock suzerain a lot, don't you. Ben I seem
to give it to us again because I'm kind of
misconstruing the meaning a little bit.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
It's like the best way to say it is it's
a kind of fake autonomy or a miniature version of sovereignty.
So suserinity means that you will have two states and
(10:29):
there's a vassal state or a subservient lower state, and
it has its own government, but it can't really do
anything other than what the daddy state tells.
Speaker 4 (10:41):
So it's almost like a democracy in name only, right, Yeah,
you could say autonomy and name only I suppose, yeah,
internal autonomy and so like Iceland has relative autonomy internally
but ultimately another government from the European Union controls it.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
Or you could say Volbard has since we're sticking to
North Atlantics, Valbard has internal autonomy, but ultimately Norway makes
all the global calls believe India.
Speaker 4 (11:15):
Is a Sousan souzarin the team. Oh yeah, I think
that's right. Yeah, I'm looking up some of modern examples
and that one's coming up. But that might be a
topic for another day because I think we've clearly kicked
it around enough and maybe it's worth further exploration.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
If we dive into the story and we go to
seven Wonders dot Org, we'll see that there are ancient
Greek tales that attribute the origin of Artemis worship in
Ephesius to a legendary group called the Amazons hashtag not
Jeff Bezos.
Speaker 4 (11:57):
No, this is like the yeah, the warrior class, right,
the Warrior group.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
Yeah, the Warrior.
Speaker 4 (12:04):
Women, Yes, exactly, thank you, thank you. I believe Wonder
Woman was one. She was one of the wonders of
the ancient world herself. Archaeological excavations that happened before World
War One discovered three previous versions of temples, each stacked
and built atop the other one on the same site.
(12:27):
We'll get back to this a little bit. The idea
of what's that bit from Monty Python the Holy Grail,
the castle that kept it sunk into the swamp. So
I built another castle. Let did it second to the
swamp too? And then yes, and this one stood or
the ancient city of Troy also true.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
Have you guys seen the title? Look at the title
the name of this episode in the brief. Yes, oh yes,
the one burn down, fell over into What I was writing,
it's all you think about, was the Monty Python's.
Speaker 4 (12:52):
Going, Oh gosh, yeah, do go and check out that bit.
It's it's delightful. And I was totally misquoting it, but yeah,
you nailed it. Not only it burned down, fell over
and then sank into this one. So we have two
previous temples that for reasons didn't make it and then
this wonder of the ancient world was built on top of.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
Those I love for reasons. By the way, that's up
there with mistakes were made true where I have become strange.
Oh yes, that's our old one. By the way, folks
speed behind the curtain. On a different show, Buddy Nolan
and I figured out that you can get away with
(13:31):
dodging any social situation by saying I'm sorry, I can't
make it. I have become strange.
Speaker 4 (13:38):
I would not say necessarily get away. It's an out
for sure, but then there are questions.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
There's a diminishing return at a certain point. It will
work once in any group chat.
Speaker 4 (13:50):
For sure. I think the best move that you originated,
Ben is just the hey it's Ben from earlier, which
I use all the time in my private life, not
with your name, with my.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
But yeah, it's a great one. Yeah, introduce yourself as
Kama from earlier in most social situations, and people will
be so mortified by the idea of admitting that they
don't know who you are that nine times nine point
three times out of ten they will go with us.
So anyway, look back to the more important thing, how
(14:23):
did this become this succession of temples. How did it
become considered one of the ancient wonders of the world.
It gets its entry into the list around five point
fifty BCE. There is a cretion architect named Chersifron and
(14:43):
his son co signs him here, the king of Lydia Crosis,
the guy we mentioned earlier who has suseranity and is
kind of a pill A.
Speaker 4 (14:53):
Bit of a butt head, yeah, a bit of a.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
Head meeting of butt There's this new statue of the
Goddess that sculpted by a guy named ind OUs E
N d I O S. And then they also made
a small temple that had like a little pop up
mini temple that had columns or pillars, triangular structure above
(15:18):
the look they made it a thing, is what we're saying,
sort of an arc way of housing the goddess.
Speaker 4 (15:25):
The sculpture of the Goddess herself. It was, according to
Ephesian tourism and the d MC, quite the architectural masterpiece,
exemplifying the skill and artistry of ancient builders. It demonstrated
a lot of very very important architectural structural techniques that
(15:46):
were perfected by the Romans.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
Absolutely. Let's imagine if television existed and you heard a
TV ad for this, or if podcast existed and you
heard an ad for this, they would say, the Temple
of Artemis. You like columns, you like iotic columns, Well
we got you. We got so many columns. We got
(16:09):
more than one hundred columns, maybe one hundred and thirty,
maybe one hundred and twenty seven. You gotta see for yourself,
but we'll tell you. The columns are so tall, sixty feet.
This is an imposing temple.
Speaker 4 (16:22):
Dude. Your pitch right there reminds me of there's this
store in New Jersey. There's a band named after it
called Fountains of Wayne, and it is just it is
a store that just sells fountains. And it's in Wayne,
New Jersey, and it is featured in an episode of
The Sopranos where Tony goes to buy a fountain. And
it also they sell things like like weird sculptural busts
(16:46):
and stuff that you might have, you know, on your
lawn or veranda.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
You need a balustrade, you need a quidich, come.
Speaker 4 (16:54):
Come, come on down to columns of Wayne.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
You got columns of Wayne. So the temple roof is
super fancy They've got these intricate, ornate carvings and sculptures
that all depict various scenes from Greek mythology. And you
see this the world round and holy sites right like
angor Watt is another famous example of world away. This
(17:19):
stuff is so incredibly impressive and it's really it's an
exhibition of high level craftsmanship for the time. This makes
the Temple of Artemis an absolute show stopping stutter. That's
(17:40):
the first temple. It's really impressive, and then it got
destroyed and we see again there's a pattern here. You're thinking, folks,
fellow ridiculous historians. You're thinking, I'm going to tick because
you apparently have a bad British chex it. You're thinking,
(18:02):
this is episode five of you guys with the Wonders
of the World, So why what about the previous four wonders?
What are we talking about? Check out our Hanging Gardens episode.
Speaker 4 (18:21):
Yeah, it's a banger. Q. Are we about to get
into some mayhem here? We've teased some burnings and sackings
and crushings and topplings. We got to get to it right, Yeah,
let's do it.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
Well.
Speaker 4 (18:35):
The first one's a little underwhelming, as we've already teased
with the money Python refs. The temple faced its first catastrophic,
let's say, failure due to a severe flood in the
seventh century, causing more than half a meter of sand
and debris to be deposited, which covered the original clay
(18:55):
foundation of the temple, and the subsequent flooding.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
Led to.
Speaker 4 (19:01):
Further silt deposits, which gradually elevated the site by about
two meters and caused it to become structurally unsound.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
Yeah, and for a lot of us, especially people who
live in a low elevation area, this feels counterintuitive because
we're thinking, oh, it raised from the ground, right, shouldn't
that make it more safe. Unfortunately, it was a real
touch touch situation because as the centuries continued, the thing
(19:36):
kept rising due to that, due to that to breed
you described, and people kept using the temple until you know,
it sank.
Speaker 4 (19:55):
What goes up must come down. However, they weren't gonna
they weren't gonna put up with this, those a few,
those crafty Ephesians, so they decided to rebuild it. After
a reconstruction period in around five point fifty BCE that
was paid for by Crotius who's the ruler of Ephesius.
The architect Cherisifron and his son Metagenes Metagenous. Perhaps they
(20:22):
were responsible for overseeing the massive construction project. And they
did some you know, they did some plussing up of
it as well. They added some marble structures measuring one
hundred and fifteen meters long and forty six meters wide,
and adding further you know, wow factor architectural embellishments, like
(20:44):
the double rows of columns that do you want colum? Yeah,
we got more.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
We got so many columns. The rumors about the temples
sinking into the swamp are ma larking cub C Temple.
Speaker 4 (20:57):
Two, Temple two, I love it, thirteen meters high, surrounding
the what was referred to as the Cella, which was
an inner sanctum that actually housed the image of Artemis.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
Yeah, and this again, as you said, I love the
phrase plus up this is bigger, better, bolder, faster, stronger,
et cetera. Or however that song went, what was.
Speaker 4 (21:21):
It daft punk? Yeah, yeah, it's one of the bigger, faster, harder, stronger.
I think we might have left one out. Yeah, we
got this, We get the idea that was what's going
on here? Are you're going to come back? You got
to come back harder, for sure. So, as we've hinted,
this one didn't last either.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
Temple V two point zero gets destroyed in three point
fifty six BCE, this time due to a fire. The
fire consumes the area. And look, folks, it may sound
weird when you hear a fire destroying a largely stone
(21:59):
and marble ten, but we have to remember there was
a bunch of flammable stuff around there as well, fabric
and various decorations, and of course human beings well.
Speaker 4 (22:09):
And of course we know that you know, over time,
long enough exposure to heat will degrade the structural soundness
of even the heaviest materials.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
Sure, and they depend upon wooden roof beams as well.
The second destruction is probably due to an arsonist, a
guy named Herostratus or hero Stratus. He wanted to be famous.
It's something a lot of people experience in ancient civilization
(22:41):
and in the modern day. So for a long time
his character was ruined because people said this guy wanted
to go down in history as the dude who set
one of the world's greatest temples on fire. Luckily, other
historians and modern boffins have going back and done some research.
Speaker 4 (23:03):
Les it appears there may have been something of a
cover up, a foot or a conspiracy, you know, like
this guy maybe was made a fall guy. They point
out that it would have been incredibly difficult for him
to access the framing of the roof that would have
caused the structural issues that we're talking about here, and
they suggest the possibility that it was actually the temple
administrators who were asleep at their post, and instead of
(23:26):
fessing up to what they had done or what they
hadn't done their negligence, they decided to hang it on
this poor fellow.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
Yeah, the temple at might have done it something like
insurance fraud. They may have secretly started the fire because
they didn't even think about that temple add structural issues anyway, Yeah,
fast forward, Well, they.
Speaker 4 (23:47):
Also got his confession through you know, like enhanced interrogation.
Speaker 5 (23:51):
Let's see right right, Yeah, we do know the plucky
Ephesians can't be kept down, so they build this thing
again on the same site we set.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
The fire occurred in three fifty six BCE. Remember we
count down when we're counting BCE, So just a little
bit later, in three point fifty five BCE. The next
year they begin construction on the third temple. It takes
a while, and it's done by three thirty BCE. And
(24:25):
this one, believe it or not, folks, just like the
story of the Houses of the Three Little Piggies, this
is the brick one. This is way better, way cooler,
way more ostentatious than both of the other two temples.
Speaker 4 (24:43):
And way more columns.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
Way, bitch, do want columns? Clearly?
Speaker 4 (24:47):
We do.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
Clearly.
Speaker 4 (24:49):
Columns is what the people want. One hundred and twenty
seven to be precise. Uh, And as you can imagine,
we've got one final whoopsie here in the form of
the Goths who came along in two sixty seven c
You love the Goths, led by Respa Veduc and Thorar
this black metal stuff there, I love it. They raided
a Fesis and allegedly, like raiders are wont to do,
(25:12):
set fire to the Temple of Artemis also known as
the Temple of Diana.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
M right right, depending on how much you respect the
plagiarism of the Romans. Yeah, so I like Max. I
like that you popped in just a nod by that
way it was.
Speaker 3 (25:28):
By this point in time, it had ticked over, and
so now it was Roman rules. So they're calling it
by a different name, but it was the same dang thing.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
Yeah, And we don't know still how much damage was
inflicted on this temple by the Goths who were, as
you said, just absolutely tearing up the town. But we
do believe that this was what we call an inflection
point because after that Temple V. Three point zero falls
(25:57):
into intense disrepair, becomes what we in Atlanta call a bando.
Speaker 4 (26:03):
Remember when that interstate collapsed because there was like piles
of a construction material underneath it that supposedly were set
on fire by They hung it on again an individual,
an unhoused drug user person that they claimed was smoking
a certain substance that very simplar kind of felt like
a fall guy situation. Can I also just say the
(26:27):
plagiarism of the Romans got me too, because I believe earlier,
when we were much earlier in the episode, I credited
the Romans with those architectural advancements that they so liberally
nicked from the Greeks.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
The Romans, my bad chat, they would have loved it,
loved it. So look you can. You can find the
history of Temple v. Three point zero, closing during the
persecution of Pagans later in the Roman Empire. And if
(27:01):
you look toward the boffins of the day, like Ammonius
of Alexandria, you'll see suggestions that the temple may have
closed down as early as four to seven Common Era,
or may have lasted as long as the mid fourth century. Anyway,
(27:23):
it's a long time. It's weird when we get into
these kind of numbers because calendars are ridiculous. But after
the temple closes and polytheistic worship has kind of entered
at Sunset era, the city converts to Christianity, and people
(27:43):
across the town of Ephesius alter different things, and including
the temple itself, and they alter it to remove the
name Artemis. They're not super concerned about preserving historical works
at this point.
Speaker 4 (28:00):
No, if anything, they're more interested in bulldozing over them,
or at the very least repurposing them in their own image.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
And right now we know that you cannot go and
see any of the three versions of the Temple as
they stood in the days of yore. We actually don't
know how the final Temple fell, But we do have
one important thing we wanted to end on, so very important.
Speaker 4 (28:27):
We can't do a wonder of the ancient world and
not talk about SIEV.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
That's right, sid Meier's civilization. The thing everybody is thinking about.
This counts as one of the wonders of the world
that you can build in some but not all iterations
of the game civilization. So let's go live to our
civilization correspondent, mister Max Williams. Max, is it worth building
(28:54):
or not?
Speaker 3 (28:56):
I mean, it really depends on which t if you're playing. Obviously,
in I believe SIV is one and two, it's not
worth building because you can't build it. It's not in
the game. But uh, in a lot of the civilizations
it's just like okay, But in CIV six because it
has not appeared in the Newest one seven yet and
SIV six it is like probably one of the most
overpowered wonders in the game, and you can get it
(29:18):
very early on.
Speaker 4 (29:19):
So building these gives you like buffs, right is that they.
Speaker 3 (29:22):
And only one civilization can have one. So let's just say,
I'm we're all three of us are in the game,
and no, you build Temple of Artemis I can't build
a Temple of Artemis. What really sucks is I could
be like one turn away from finishing the Temple of
Artemis and they build it. Yeah, it's a real kick
in the shin that you missed and went a little higher.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
But you get some of your resources, You get resources back.
The issue is really whether or not in earlier iterations
of CIV pre civilization six, Uh, the Temple of Artemis
is mainly meant to be an advantage for trade and
culture wins.
Speaker 3 (29:58):
Right in this one. It's for building like a mega city. Basically,
it gives you a bunch of housing, a bunch of food,
and it has this really complex mechanic that we're not
going to explain on er because it'll Yeah, it's hard
for it's hard for me to understand. Basically, if you
have the right setup, it'll turn your country into the
happiest little country of all time.
Speaker 4 (30:20):
That sounds nice?
Speaker 3 (30:21):
Is I love building it?
Speaker 4 (30:23):
All?
Speaker 2 (30:24):
Right? So we've got the uh, we've got the official
rating of this as what you would call a meh
wonder correct, Max.
Speaker 3 (30:32):
No, No, it's me before SEF six, it is an
a tier I would say as tier if you have
a bunch of camps, pastures and plantations around it within
four tiles.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
And with that, folks, we hope you enjoyed our series,
our newest installment on Wonders of the Ancient World. We
will be back next week. We've got a classic this
weekend that we're quite excited about and we can't wait
to hang out with you in the future. Big big
thanks to super producer and research associate Max Williams. Big
(31:06):
thanks to Alex Williams, who composed his this banging track
You're hearing and negative thanks to Jonathan Strickland aka the Quister.
Speaker 4 (31:15):
You know, I ran into Jonathan at the office the
other day, Yeah, for the first time in ages, and
I just reminded him that we cursed his name at
the end of every episode, followed usually by a task
sets out. But also, we really like that guy.
Speaker 2 (31:27):
Yeah, we do really like man. He will return in
the future because every good he wrote needs a nemesis.
Big thanks also to doctor Rachel Big Spinach, Lance aj
Bahama's Jacob's nickname. We won't explain who else, who else?
Who else?
Speaker 4 (31:47):
Oh well, doctor Venkman, Maddie, I'm adding him to the Thank.
Speaker 5 (31:50):
You, Ben, Thank you, big thanks to Apollo though thanks yeah,
well that's appropriate for today.
Speaker 4 (31:56):
We'll see you next time, folks. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio,
visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen
to your favorite shows.
Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Welcome back to the show, fellow Ridiculous Historians. Thank you,
as always so much for tuning in. Let's hear it
for the wonder of the podcasting world, our super producer,
mister Max Williams.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
Is there anything more wonderful than a wonder Max?
Speaker 4 (00:42):
Wonders really are wonderful? Williams.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Yeah, that's Noel Brown. I'm Ben Bowlela. We're coming to
you live and direct, and we are going to roast
our brother and podcast arms a little bit here because
you are the research associate for this one. Max, you
wrote this sentence wonders are really are wonderful, and then
(01:07):
you appropriately roasted yourself because you knew I was gonna
do it if you did.
Speaker 4 (01:11):
That's a wonderful starting line, he says. Wonderful job there, Max,
and we're here for you to say the same thing.
Thank you, Max. What a wonderful compliment. That's you thinking yourself.
But we're also giving it to you as outsiders looking in.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
Yes, of course, Noel, can we say this part together,
the last sentence of that one?
Speaker 4 (01:28):
Oh gosh, yes, of course, Max. You are just wonderful,
wonderful man.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
This is a continuing series for us. We've got some
We've got more episodes on the way spoiler three, and
it's not going to end the way you think. This
one is part five of this series.
Speaker 4 (01:56):
It is the.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
Temple of Artemis, also as the Artemisia.
Speaker 4 (02:03):
Artemis is the one with the bow and arrow, right.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
Yes, yeah, basically, basically it's like a t MoU brand
of Diana.
Speaker 4 (02:11):
Yeah, Artemis, the Greek goddess of the hunt, always depicted
with a bow and arrow.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Yeah. So the Temple of Artemis, according to Ephesian tourism
and DMC is or was spoiler one of the seven
Wonders of the ancient world, and it is seen as
similar to like the Colossus of Rhodes. It's seen as
this testament to humanities, hold my beer approach to making
(02:41):
unnecessarily amazing things.
Speaker 4 (02:44):
Mortorline weird flexes. But okay, oh yeah, oh for sure.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
It's it was located in the city of Ephesius, which
is now part of modern day Turkey. A and it was,
you know, it was a temple, a sight of religious significance.
Before we get into the story, we got to understand
some of the context and the context that you so
(03:11):
beautifully foreshadowed there. Noel is the concept of Artemis in
general in Greek religion. Back in those days, as in
the modern day, you have to be kind of a
big deal to have a statue or a temple or
a building named after you.
Speaker 4 (03:28):
Truth. Yeah. No, nowadays you can commission one to be built,
you know.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
For yourself. Sure, maybe at the White House possibly cool.
Walk down the street from that one, we love down
down Kay Street. Ooh nice, Oh, I love that. Yeah.
So the thing that we adore about Greek mythology is
that it is a polytheistic enterprise. So Artemis is the
(03:58):
goddess of wild animal, the hunt, the goddess of vegetation,
the goddess of chastity, and paradoxically childbirth.
Speaker 4 (04:09):
Yeah, well, it's also paradoxical that she's the goddess of
wild animals, the hunt, and vegetables. She's a bit of
an omnivore.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
Yeah, that does feel like it's four point thirty on
a Friday and they're just figuring out attributes.
Speaker 4 (04:22):
Just chuck that one in there too, Just pop it
around for vegetables.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
Someone's like snapping their fingers in the pitch meeting and
they're going animals, also hunting animals.
Speaker 4 (04:32):
Minerals in there.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
Yeah yeah, yeah, And this this character, this concept, this
deity is later identified by the famous plagiariss the Romans
with Diane.
Speaker 4 (04:49):
Hey, you know, if you're gonna steal, steal, well they did.
They did a pretty good job, made it their own.
And yeah, she was a bit of a fan favorite, Artemis,
oh very much. She's the daughter of Zeus and Leto,
not Jared, and she is the twin sister of Apollo,
the god.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
Not your daughter.
Speaker 4 (05:10):
Oh yeah, that's been named after I do believe are
possibly named after Apollo Creek because he's tough, but so
was Apollo the gods. So yeah, like I was saying,
Among the locals, the rural populace, Artemis was a favorite
goddess because they really relied on the hunt. They relied
on crops, then she kind of and they relied on
(05:34):
healthy childbirth, you know, hopefully not dying in childbirth, which
was certainly a thing that happened more often than one
would like. So she represented a lot of things that
were very important to the average humans, the average citizens.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
Yeah, one hundred percent, dude. And also, like so many
other gods, in these pantheons, her aspects or specific functions,
the things people would worshiper for they varied over place
to place, right, So, you could go to one town
and they would be like, Artemis is awesome at vegetables.
(06:11):
You go to another town and they'd be like, Artemis
is awesome for chastity. And then you go to another
town they'd say, well, we're more into the childbirth aspect.
So apparently if you look at the forest instead of
just the individual trees of temples, behind all of the aspects,
(06:31):
there was this goddess who embodied wild nature, the forest,
the mountains, the marshes. She was the sportsman's ideal. So
in addition to killing wild game, she also protected wild animals.
She's like a problematic captain planet.
Speaker 4 (06:53):
Yeah, well, you know, I mean there's a balance to that, right,
I mean, even today we've got the whatever, the Fish
and Wildlife Organization. I'm sorry, I'm totally getting the name wrong,
but the idea of like you have to have a
hunting license so that you can balance out how many
animals are killed versus how many are born, et cetera.
Not going to say that it's a perfect science, but
this idea of the balance of nature is very important
(07:16):
even to this day and probably not honored nearly as
well as it was back under Artemis's watch.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
Yeah. Also, there were a lot more wild non human
animals back in the day. So we want to give
a special shout out to super producer research associate Max
Williams for shouting out the day dra from Elder Scrolls.
I know you well, bro her scene, that's a great reference.
(07:43):
You want to say something about her scene real quick?
Speaker 4 (07:47):
Nah?
Speaker 2 (07:48):
All right, fair enough Max, with the facts. Yeah, let's
do it. Also to follow up real quick for Skyrim fans,
(08:17):
you can get a ring of her scene, which allows
you more werewolf transformations.
Speaker 3 (08:21):
You also you can always get the high to here scene,
which you get from ripping the hide off of a werewolf.
Speaker 4 (08:26):
Yes, yes, graphic.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
So those are the two most important parts of this episode. Uh.
With that done, let's uh, let's talk a little bit
about the location of the Temple of Artemis, which leads
us to how it became a wonder of the world
in the first place.
Speaker 4 (08:43):
Well, yeah, you start hearing about a thesis around the
mid seventh century BCE Britannica rights that it was attacked
by Simrians, not Summarians. This is C I M M
E R I A N. That's not the same thing, right,
there's no So it's like codin. So for a part
(09:03):
of the early sixth century, it was under the rule
of tyrants. This is a you know, a ruling plundering
people essentially, you know, wreck shop and took over.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
Yeah, very much not a democracy. The might is right
rule is what decides the political machinations of the day.
So the issue here is very high stakes game of
throne stuff. We're talking about political alliances through marriage. So
(09:38):
our good friends in the town of Fijius are allied
by or allied by marriage to the kings of Lydia,
which means that this other dude, a Lydian guy named
Crosius runs the place. He has SU's ranity over it.
Speaker 4 (10:00):
You rock suzerain a lot, don't you. Ben I seem
to give it to us again because I'm kind of
misconstruing the meaning a little bit.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
It's like the best way to say it is it's
a kind of fake autonomy or a miniature version of sovereignty.
So suserinity means that you will have two states and
(10:29):
there's a vassal state or a subservient lower state, and
it has its own government, but it can't really do
anything other than what the daddy state tells.
Speaker 4 (10:41):
So it's almost like a democracy in name only, right, Yeah,
you could say autonomy and name only I suppose, yeah,
internal autonomy and so like Iceland has relative autonomy internally
but ultimately another government from the European Union controls it.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
Or you could say Volbard has since we're sticking to
North Atlantics, Valbard has internal autonomy, but ultimately Norway makes
all the global calls believe India.
Speaker 4 (11:15):
Is a Sousan souzarin the team. Oh yeah, I think
that's right. Yeah, I'm looking up some of modern examples
and that one's coming up. But that might be a
topic for another day because I think we've clearly kicked
it around enough and maybe it's worth further exploration.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
If we dive into the story and we go to
seven Wonders dot Org, we'll see that there are ancient
Greek tales that attribute the origin of Artemis worship in
Ephesius to a legendary group called the Amazons hashtag not
Jeff Bezos.
Speaker 4 (11:57):
No, this is like the yeah, the warrior class, right,
the Warrior group.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
Yeah, the Warrior.
Speaker 4 (12:04):
Women, Yes, exactly, thank you, thank you. I believe Wonder
Woman was one. She was one of the wonders of
the ancient world herself. Archaeological excavations that happened before World
War One discovered three previous versions of temples, each stacked
and built atop the other one on the same site.
(12:27):
We'll get back to this a little bit. The idea
of what's that bit from Monty Python the Holy Grail,
the castle that kept it sunk into the swamp. So
I built another castle. Let did it second to the
swamp too? And then yes, and this one stood or
the ancient city of Troy also true.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
Have you guys seen the title? Look at the title
the name of this episode in the brief. Yes, oh yes,
the one burn down, fell over into What I was writing,
it's all you think about, was the Monty Python's.
Speaker 4 (12:52):
Going, Oh gosh, yeah, do go and check out that bit.
It's it's delightful. And I was totally misquoting it, but yeah,
you nailed it. Not only it burned down, fell over
and then sank into this one. So we have two
previous temples that for reasons didn't make it and then
this wonder of the ancient world was built on top of.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
Those I love for reasons. By the way, that's up
there with mistakes were made true where I have become strange.
Oh yes, that's our old one. By the way, folks
speed behind the curtain. On a different show, Buddy Nolan
and I figured out that you can get away with
(13:31):
dodging any social situation by saying I'm sorry, I can't
make it. I have become strange.
Speaker 4 (13:38):
I would not say necessarily get away. It's an out
for sure, but then there are questions.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
There's a diminishing return at a certain point. It will
work once in any group chat.
Speaker 4 (13:50):
For sure. I think the best move that you originated,
Ben is just the hey it's Ben from earlier, which
I use all the time in my private life, not
with your name, with my.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
But yeah, it's a great one. Yeah, introduce yourself as
Kama from earlier in most social situations, and people will
be so mortified by the idea of admitting that they
don't know who you are that nine times nine point
three times out of ten they will go with us.
So anyway, look back to the more important thing, how
(14:23):
did this become this succession of temples. How did it
become considered one of the ancient wonders of the world.
It gets its entry into the list around five point
fifty BCE. There is a cretion architect named Chersifron and
(14:43):
his son co signs him here, the king of Lydia Crosis,
the guy we mentioned earlier who has suseranity and is
kind of a pill A.
Speaker 4 (14:53):
Bit of a butt head, yeah, a bit of a.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
Head meeting of butt There's this new statue of the
Goddess that sculpted by a guy named ind OUs E
N d I O S. And then they also made
a small temple that had like a little pop up
mini temple that had columns or pillars, triangular structure above
(15:18):
the look they made it a thing, is what we're saying,
sort of an arc way of housing the goddess.
Speaker 4 (15:25):
The sculpture of the Goddess herself. It was, according to
Ephesian tourism and the d MC, quite the architectural masterpiece,
exemplifying the skill and artistry of ancient builders. It demonstrated
a lot of very very important architectural structural techniques that
(15:46):
were perfected by the Romans.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
Absolutely. Let's imagine if television existed and you heard a
TV ad for this, or if podcast existed and you
heard an ad for this, they would say, the Temple
of Artemis. You like columns, you like iotic columns, Well
we got you. We got so many columns. We got
(16:09):
more than one hundred columns, maybe one hundred and thirty,
maybe one hundred and twenty seven. You gotta see for yourself,
but we'll tell you. The columns are so tall, sixty feet.
This is an imposing temple.
Speaker 4 (16:22):
Dude. Your pitch right there reminds me of there's this
store in New Jersey. There's a band named after it
called Fountains of Wayne, and it is just it is
a store that just sells fountains. And it's in Wayne,
New Jersey, and it is featured in an episode of
The Sopranos where Tony goes to buy a fountain. And
it also they sell things like like weird sculptural busts
(16:46):
and stuff that you might have, you know, on your
lawn or veranda.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
You need a balustrade, you need a quidich, come.
Speaker 4 (16:54):
Come, come on down to columns of Wayne.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
You got columns of Wayne. So the temple roof is
super fancy They've got these intricate, ornate carvings and sculptures
that all depict various scenes from Greek mythology. And you
see this the world round and holy sites right like
angor Watt is another famous example of world away. This
(17:19):
stuff is so incredibly impressive and it's really it's an
exhibition of high level craftsmanship for the time. This makes
the Temple of Artemis an absolute show stopping stutter. That's
(17:40):
the first temple. It's really impressive, and then it got
destroyed and we see again there's a pattern here. You're thinking, folks,
fellow ridiculous historians. You're thinking, I'm going to tick because
you apparently have a bad British chex it. You're thinking,
(18:02):
this is episode five of you guys with the Wonders
of the World, So why what about the previous four wonders?
What are we talking about? Check out our Hanging Gardens episode.
Speaker 4 (18:21):
Yeah, it's a banger. Q. Are we about to get
into some mayhem here? We've teased some burnings and sackings
and crushings and topplings. We got to get to it right, Yeah,
let's do it.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
Well.
Speaker 4 (18:35):
The first one's a little underwhelming, as we've already teased
with the money Python refs. The temple faced its first catastrophic,
let's say, failure due to a severe flood in the
seventh century, causing more than half a meter of sand
and debris to be deposited, which covered the original clay
(18:55):
foundation of the temple, and the subsequent flooding.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
Led to.
Speaker 4 (19:01):
Further silt deposits, which gradually elevated the site by about
two meters and caused it to become structurally unsound.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
Yeah, and for a lot of us, especially people who
live in a low elevation area, this feels counterintuitive because
we're thinking, oh, it raised from the ground, right, shouldn't
that make it more safe. Unfortunately, it was a real
touch touch situation because as the centuries continued, the thing
(19:36):
kept rising due to that, due to that to breed
you described, and people kept using the temple until you know,
it sank.
Speaker 4 (19:55):
What goes up must come down. However, they weren't gonna
they weren't gonna put up with this, those a few,
those crafty Ephesians, so they decided to rebuild it. After
a reconstruction period in around five point fifty BCE that
was paid for by Crotius who's the ruler of Ephesius.
The architect Cherisifron and his son Metagenes Metagenous. Perhaps they
(20:22):
were responsible for overseeing the massive construction project. And they
did some you know, they did some plussing up of
it as well. They added some marble structures measuring one
hundred and fifteen meters long and forty six meters wide,
and adding further you know, wow factor architectural embellishments, like
(20:44):
the double rows of columns that do you want colum? Yeah,
we got more.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
We got so many columns. The rumors about the temples
sinking into the swamp are ma larking cub C Temple.
Speaker 4 (20:57):
Two, Temple two, I love it, thirteen meters high, surrounding
the what was referred to as the Cella, which was
an inner sanctum that actually housed the image of Artemis.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
Yeah, and this again, as you said, I love the
phrase plus up this is bigger, better, bolder, faster, stronger,
et cetera. Or however that song went, what was.
Speaker 4 (21:21):
It daft punk? Yeah, yeah, it's one of the bigger, faster, harder, stronger.
I think we might have left one out. Yeah, we
got this, We get the idea that was what's going
on here? Are you're going to come back? You got
to come back harder, for sure. So, as we've hinted,
this one didn't last either.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
Temple V two point zero gets destroyed in three point
fifty six BCE, this time due to a fire. The
fire consumes the area. And look, folks, it may sound
weird when you hear a fire destroying a largely stone
(21:59):
and marble ten, but we have to remember there was
a bunch of flammable stuff around there as well, fabric
and various decorations, and of course human beings well.
Speaker 4 (22:09):
And of course we know that you know, over time,
long enough exposure to heat will degrade the structural soundness
of even the heaviest materials.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
Sure, and they depend upon wooden roof beams as well.
The second destruction is probably due to an arsonist, a
guy named Herostratus or hero Stratus. He wanted to be famous.
It's something a lot of people experience in ancient civilization
(22:41):
and in the modern day. So for a long time
his character was ruined because people said this guy wanted
to go down in history as the dude who set
one of the world's greatest temples on fire. Luckily, other
historians and modern boffins have going back and done some research.
Speaker 4 (23:03):
Les it appears there may have been something of a
cover up, a foot or a conspiracy, you know, like
this guy maybe was made a fall guy. They point
out that it would have been incredibly difficult for him
to access the framing of the roof that would have
caused the structural issues that we're talking about here, and
they suggest the possibility that it was actually the temple
administrators who were asleep at their post, and instead of
(23:26):
fessing up to what they had done or what they
hadn't done their negligence, they decided to hang it on
this poor fellow.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
Yeah, the temple at might have done it something like
insurance fraud. They may have secretly started the fire because
they didn't even think about that temple add structural issues anyway, Yeah,
fast forward, Well, they.
Speaker 4 (23:47):
Also got his confession through you know, like enhanced interrogation.
Speaker 5 (23:51):
Let's see right right, Yeah, we do know the plucky
Ephesians can't be kept down, so they build this thing
again on the same site we set.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
The fire occurred in three fifty six BCE. Remember we
count down when we're counting BCE, So just a little
bit later, in three point fifty five BCE. The next
year they begin construction on the third temple. It takes
a while, and it's done by three thirty BCE. And
(24:25):
this one, believe it or not, folks, just like the
story of the Houses of the Three Little Piggies, this
is the brick one. This is way better, way cooler,
way more ostentatious than both of the other two temples.
Speaker 4 (24:43):
And way more columns.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
Way, bitch, do want columns? Clearly?
Speaker 4 (24:47):
We do.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
Clearly.
Speaker 4 (24:49):
Columns is what the people want. One hundred and twenty
seven to be precise. Uh, And as you can imagine,
we've got one final whoopsie here in the form of
the Goths who came along in two sixty seven c
You love the Goths, led by Respa Veduc and Thorar
this black metal stuff there, I love it. They raided
a Fesis and allegedly, like raiders are wont to do,
(25:12):
set fire to the Temple of Artemis also known as
the Temple of Diana.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
M right right, depending on how much you respect the
plagiarism of the Romans. Yeah, so I like Max. I
like that you popped in just a nod by that
way it was.
Speaker 3 (25:28):
By this point in time, it had ticked over, and
so now it was Roman rules. So they're calling it
by a different name, but it was the same dang thing.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
Yeah, And we don't know still how much damage was
inflicted on this temple by the Goths who were, as
you said, just absolutely tearing up the town. But we
do believe that this was what we call an inflection
point because after that Temple V. Three point zero falls
(25:57):
into intense disrepair, becomes what we in Atlanta call a bando.
Speaker 4 (26:03):
Remember when that interstate collapsed because there was like piles
of a construction material underneath it that supposedly were set
on fire by They hung it on again an individual,
an unhoused drug user person that they claimed was smoking
a certain substance that very simplar kind of felt like
a fall guy situation. Can I also just say the
(26:27):
plagiarism of the Romans got me too, because I believe earlier,
when we were much earlier in the episode, I credited
the Romans with those architectural advancements that they so liberally
nicked from the Greeks.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
The Romans, my bad chat, they would have loved it,
loved it. So look you can. You can find the
history of Temple v. Three point zero, closing during the
persecution of Pagans later in the Roman Empire. And if
(27:01):
you look toward the boffins of the day, like Ammonius
of Alexandria, you'll see suggestions that the temple may have
closed down as early as four to seven Common Era,
or may have lasted as long as the mid fourth century. Anyway,
(27:23):
it's a long time. It's weird when we get into
these kind of numbers because calendars are ridiculous. But after
the temple closes and polytheistic worship has kind of entered
at Sunset era, the city converts to Christianity, and people
(27:43):
across the town of Ephesius alter different things, and including
the temple itself, and they alter it to remove the
name Artemis. They're not super concerned about preserving historical works
at this point.
Speaker 4 (28:00):
No, if anything, they're more interested in bulldozing over them,
or at the very least repurposing them in their own image.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
And right now we know that you cannot go and
see any of the three versions of the Temple as
they stood in the days of yore. We actually don't
know how the final Temple fell, But we do have
one important thing we wanted to end on, so very important.
Speaker 4 (28:27):
We can't do a wonder of the ancient world and
not talk about SIEV.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
That's right, sid Meier's civilization. The thing everybody is thinking about.
This counts as one of the wonders of the world
that you can build in some but not all iterations
of the game civilization. So let's go live to our
civilization correspondent, mister Max Williams. Max, is it worth building
(28:54):
or not?
Speaker 3 (28:56):
I mean, it really depends on which t if you're playing. Obviously,
in I believe SIV is one and two, it's not
worth building because you can't build it. It's not in
the game. But uh, in a lot of the civilizations
it's just like okay, But in CIV six because it
has not appeared in the Newest one seven yet and
SIV six it is like probably one of the most
overpowered wonders in the game, and you can get it
(29:18):
very early on.
Speaker 4 (29:19):
So building these gives you like buffs, right is that they.
Speaker 3 (29:22):
And only one civilization can have one. So let's just say,
I'm we're all three of us are in the game,
and no, you build Temple of Artemis I can't build
a Temple of Artemis. What really sucks is I could
be like one turn away from finishing the Temple of
Artemis and they build it. Yeah, it's a real kick
in the shin that you missed and went a little higher.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
But you get some of your resources, You get resources back.
The issue is really whether or not in earlier iterations
of CIV pre civilization six, Uh, the Temple of Artemis
is mainly meant to be an advantage for trade and
culture wins.
Speaker 3 (29:58):
Right in this one. It's for building like a mega city. Basically,
it gives you a bunch of housing, a bunch of food,
and it has this really complex mechanic that we're not
going to explain on er because it'll Yeah, it's hard
for it's hard for me to understand. Basically, if you
have the right setup, it'll turn your country into the
happiest little country of all time.
Speaker 4 (30:20):
That sounds nice?
Speaker 3 (30:21):
Is I love building it?
Speaker 4 (30:23):
All?
Speaker 2 (30:24):
Right? So we've got the uh, we've got the official
rating of this as what you would call a meh
wonder correct, Max.
Speaker 3 (30:32):
No, No, it's me before SEF six, it is an
a tier I would say as tier if you have
a bunch of camps, pastures and plantations around it within
four tiles.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
And with that, folks, we hope you enjoyed our series,
our newest installment on Wonders of the Ancient World. We
will be back next week. We've got a classic this
weekend that we're quite excited about and we can't wait
to hang out with you in the future. Big big
thanks to super producer and research associate Max Williams. Big
(31:06):
thanks to Alex Williams, who composed his this banging track
You're hearing and negative thanks to Jonathan Strickland aka the Quister.
Speaker 4 (31:15):
You know, I ran into Jonathan at the office the
other day, Yeah, for the first time in ages, and
I just reminded him that we cursed his name at
the end of every episode, followed usually by a task
sets out. But also, we really like that guy.
Speaker 2 (31:27):
Yeah, we do really like man. He will return in
the future because every good he wrote needs a nemesis.
Big thanks also to doctor Rachel Big Spinach, Lance aj
Bahama's Jacob's nickname. We won't explain who else, who else?
Who else?
Speaker 4 (31:47):
Oh well, doctor Venkman, Maddie, I'm adding him to the Thank.
Speaker 5 (31:50):
You, Ben, Thank you, big thanks to Apollo though thanks yeah,
well that's appropriate for today.
Speaker 4 (31:56):
We'll see you next time, folks. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio,
visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen
to your favorite shows.
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