The Amazing History of Japanese Toys, Part Two: The World Takeover

As Matsuzo Kosuge struggled to keep his business afloat amid the chaos of war, he became incredibly inventive, using cast-off beer and soup cans as raw materials and setting up shop in abandoned cattle sheds. In the second part of this two-part episode, Ben, Noel and Max explore the rise of Japanese toys.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to

(00:27):
the show Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always so much
for tuning in. This is part two of a two
part series, so please tune into part one so this
thing makes makes more sense. Anyway, we got Max doll
on bed is me and my job in this intro
is to welcome you into the content. There's not much

(00:47):
of a Tokyo to go back to. He can't return
home because the Soviet Union has taken over those disputed
islands in Hokkaido and Kyoto was Japan's only metro center
still standing. So that's where he sets up. Because s J.

(01:08):
Toy works exactly just a few months after the war ends,
he does just that he's able to find a space
that's going to actually, you know, be enough for this operation.
You know, it's kind of a dream scenario. He actually
rents a former cattle shed, which if you can kind
of picture a cattle shed, this is like a barn,

(01:28):
right ben of this is more like a giant airplane
hangar kind of situation where cattle you know, are slaughtered
and kept. Yeah, it's like a shock too, like if
you if you have ever taken a road trip through
rural parts of the Southeast or the Midwest. You see
all those crumbling looking barns that look like they're about

(01:50):
to fall over. But they've looked like they're about to
fall over for around eighty years or so. This thing
is planks of rough wood. There are gaps in the
boards like you could see into it from outside. It
probably still smells of cow, to be honest with you,
there's probably still a little bit of manure there. But
it's is but look and large, right large. It has

(02:12):
this space. That's all he really needs exactly. But yeah,
definitely some like you know, clumps of straw, that cow
smell that you're describing, Ben, But it was enough space
for all of the gear that they needed to fit
in there and the labor that they needed to have
have room for. Uh, you know, he said it would

(02:32):
it would do, That's what That's what he said. So
Becausuge is now unentangled from the military and able to
kind of go on with his life's mission. The question
then becomes, what how do I appeal to kids who
are traumatized by war? Right? Yeah, this is something a

(02:54):
lot of people think about, Right, how does war impact
an industry, and how does impact the people you're making
things for, whether those are children or adults. Remember this
is the time when the instant noodle is invented, and
it's entirely because the war has so fundamentally changed Japan.
The answer what can I do? What kind of toy

(03:18):
would be appropriate for kids? Comes on two fronts. First,
he sees the temporary barracks the Baco hotel gis have
been a familiar sight on these streets, and he goes,
Holy smokes, American jeeps are everywhere. And the second part
is he's always loved cars. So the story goes one

(03:39):
day because J's walking home from the public bathhouse and
he sees a jeep park down the street and nobody's
in it, and he says, well, given the hour, whoever
was driving it is likely, let's see the way Matt
Alt puts, it is likely off scouting for female companionship
in the nearby red light district scouting. And since since

(04:03):
there's no one in the car, though, because J is
able to get up close to the jeep and really
get a look at it exactly, so he does just that.
And this is maybe the kind of view that you
wouldn't normally be able to get you know, at a
military vehicle like this because they're usually passing quite quickly.
They don't really give tours. This was a big deal
because typically, you know, when toymakers were going to make

(04:25):
some sort of facsimile of, you know, something that exists
in the real world, they would only be able to
refer to images and like catalogs or like you know,
promotional stuff that the companies would put out, you know,
to advertise for their products, in this case cheap. And
he actually was able to get up there, get his
you know, nose right up against the glass and see

(04:46):
what this thing was made of. Definitely, you know, for
a military device like this, this is a very rare opportunity. Yeah,
because they didn't have the uh, they didn't have a
version of a catalog that would go out, especially to
the Japanese public, saying, hey, look at all these military
vehicles up close. So the guy doesn't he sees his

(05:09):
golden opportunity. And it's not like he has a tape measure.
He doesn't carry around the way Hideo Kajima does. He
only has one thing to measure stuff with, and it's
his bath towel from the bathhouse, so he gets real
mcgiver with this. This is inspiring. He stretches out the
towel and he uses that to get the rough dimensions
of the jeep and then runs back home before he

(05:32):
forgets draws a blueprint and he keeps going back to
find parked jeeps and repeating the process with his towel.
Eventually he's back in business almost because remember he had
to give overall his molds to the government, and they
also had no metal to work with, so he literally starts.

(05:55):
He cracks a deal with the US Army to take
away part of their empty food cans. Cool, so he's
going to repurpose this, uh huh. He's taken the soup
cans and the beer cans, the bean cans, and he
takes them back to his workshop and he and his
team cleaned them really hard. They cut them open, they
run them through a press to flatten them. They pound

(06:17):
them out by hand over these molds, and eventually they
make little replicas of the US Army jeep. That is
so cool, man, It's so it's just so um industrious,
you know what I mean, Like, you know, given the situation,
and he made the best of what he could. Also,
I want to point out that remember when he had

(06:37):
to close his shop or the very least rebrand it,
and then I believe it was called custom fabrications or
precision fabrication. When when that the phrase passed through my head,
it made me realize that like a lot of you know,
all this toymaking and manufacturing stuff, that's what it is.
It's just like precision fabrication. It's the same type of

(06:58):
ingenuity and an equipment a lot of ways that would
go into making like say auto parts, you know, or
things for construction, like building materials, but this is it's
made for kids to play with. Yeah, exactly. That's a
good point. And Japan's government also put some effort into
promoting toy manufacturing as an industry to revive it was

(07:21):
kind of easy to get it up and running, and
partially they were motivated because toys made a peaceful, slash
non threatening image. This is nineteen forty six. You know,
people are dying of malnutrition in the country. A lot
of people just eat food and shelter, and amid this chaos,
the Japanese government passes a resolution urging everyone in the

(07:45):
nation to give toys to children, which again I think
is really cool. I think it's a cool policy. There's
a lot behind it, of course, but yeah, I think
it's I think it's a neat idea. It's a pr move,
to be sure, but I think it's one that had
that had legs, you know, certainly in a positive way.

(08:06):
And also, you know, we've we've talked in the past
about how fascinating and just you know, kind of an
example of just like life finds a way, you know,
it is that Japan emerged from near annihilation to become
this global superpower, you know, in tech, in electronics, in

(08:27):
pop culture and all of these things. It's almost like
they the slate was white. You think about this almost
like as the slate being white, clean situation. But that's
not the case, is it. We're learning here today with
a lot of this stuff. This whole attitude, this kind
of creative spirit was it was in play long before
you know, the bomb dropped, and so then you know,
when the country kind of started to emphasize manufacturing, you know,

(08:50):
to get back on its legs. The government, you had
folks like Kasuke coming in and laying the groundwork for
that innovation that we would see kind of really start
to flourish like in the eighties and nineties. Yeah, one
hundred percent. And this idea that toys can make a
serious impact continues, and Kasuge is a huge part of this.

(09:16):
They are working toward the New Year holiday season January
nineteen forty six. It's the first time in it like
a decade that they've celebrated New Year's not during a war,
so it's pretty exciting. The first batch of these jeeps
goes on sale in December, just four months after the

(09:36):
closed World War two. They're ten yen a pop and
that's the cost of a you know, like a snack
at a food market stall, so everybody can afford them.
They don't have boxes at this time because guess what.
Paper is also still in critically short supply. Oh and
he sells everything in an hour. He sells hundreds of

(09:58):
jeeps in like one hour, are sold out. No, I'm
not only did he make a product that was cool
looking and functional and fun to play with, he capitalized
on something that was there was a need for that,
like he knew kids would be interested in because he
was interested in it right, Like he was fascinated by
it and to the point where he wanted to go
and peer up through that window, maybe even you know,

(10:21):
at risk of being you know, yelled at a getting
in trouble or worse. It's just he could tell this
is a person that kind of had that childlike kind
of you know, spirit, and therefore was able to kind
of capture that and then turn it into gold and
golden termination of the man. Yeah, he scales up his operation.

(10:42):
He rints out more cattle sheds to get more workspace,
He hires more people to work with him, and people
needed jobs at this time, and he even hires housewives
to assemble toy parts in their homes. So the citizens
here working together. They make thousands and thousands more jeeps
for a department store. And because they're handmade, they don't

(11:04):
have precision tools. No, two groups of jeeps were exactly
the same, and they would gradually make replacements with each iteration,
you know, adding maybe a little accessory, maybe replacing the
internal mechanisms that made it a windup toy. Eventually they
do get boxes, their unbleached brown cardboard and all it

(11:28):
says on the box is jeep with an exclamation point.
All the word has always kind of felt to me
like an exclamatory you know, think one might say jeep, right, yeah, yeah, exactly.
It's weird though, because I didn't think about this until
our researcher associate doctor Z pointed it out, because also

(11:50):
gets free advertising because they're a countless US actual army
jeeps driving by, and each one of them becomes advertisement
for the toys selling. So the toys don't just mean

(12:10):
something to the kids, to adults, they also are representative
of society coming back from the war, right, Like now
I live in a place that is stable enough to
make recreational products for kids. Yeah, and I'll tell you
who else was noticing, not just the Japanese adults, but
American adults who are still around soldiers would buy up

(12:35):
these ten replicas of the vehicles that they were driving
around or flying around in real life as souvenirs to
take home. And you know it's actually I've actually got
a couple of not these military vehicles, but like ten toys,
Japanese ten toys, a real collector's market for that stuff.
I'm sure you've seen plenty of that as well. But
I've got like a little kind of a noisemaker like

(12:57):
kind of one of those guys and like a little
robot thing. They're really really neat, and there's tons of
them to be found out in the world. Oh yeah, totally.
These toys become a symbol then of bridges built between
the US and Japan, oddly enough for at least US
soldiers and Japanese society. And you can see a nineteen

(13:18):
forty six photo essay you could call it, in the
Pacific edition of Stars and Stripes, where a Japanese boy
and a young US soldier are seen playing with ten
jeeps on top of the hood of a real jeep.
It's a good photo, good good photo. Op'll think called
that top is definitely a word for it, as in propaganda. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah.

(13:42):
And so apparently the key to the jeep success as
a toy was the ambiguity of its message. A lot
of Japanese grown ups if they didn't like this stuff,
they didn't like that the toys were military vehicle toys,

(14:03):
you know, because it reminds you of the loss of
World War Two. At least that's according to Ichi wrote Tomiyama,
who in nineteen twenty four found at a toy company.
Tomi Yama now known as Tomi, and he said to Americans,
it's different. These jeeps are shining examples of military success.
I knew they would sell abroad. And so in nineteen

(14:25):
forty seven, it seems like the rest of Japan agreed
with this, and they said, we're going to ramp up
production of toys, not just for people in Japan, but
to export, and this will be kind of collateral. This
will be a way that we can help pay for
food rations that are being imported. Can we also just
point out that like these these jeeps and these these

(14:48):
tin toys, they weren't clunky looking. There was like detail
work on them. Like if you go if you type
in like Japanese tin toy vehicles, you can see everything
from like a Ford Lincoln Futura to like a Cadillac
Sedan or like a fair Lane Skyline er Chevy bel Air.
I mean, you know, this phenomenon kind of went on

(15:09):
past the period that we're talking about, but all of them,
even the earliest ones that were made from those discarded
ten food cans, there's precision involved with Oh yeah, the
detail work is remarkable. Yeah, and the fact that they
actually move too. You know that people literally made this
from improvised materials in a cow shed. Still they would.

(15:33):
The only condition that the Allied forces put on Japan
with these toys when they're exported is they had to
be marked clearly somewhere in the box with made and
occupied Japan. Christmas is coming. Since nineteen forty seven, America's
got one of their own toy shortages because, just like
other countries, the toy manufacturers were asked to help out

(15:56):
with the war effort. I say asked in very hard
air votes there. For any fans the toy trains, you'll
be interested to note that Lionel, the toy train giant,
had been forced to make its toys out of cardboard
during the Warriors because there was no metal to be had.
So Japanese toymakers are super gassed to jump into the

(16:20):
market gap. There super gas to jump into the gap.
Why am I saying gas? Oh? Right, Because they're selling
toy cars, passenger cars, military vehicles. People love them. Tomi
Yama even starts building a tin Type B twenty nine bombers,
which is I think maybe a little too soon, but
they were selling them to the US public. It's like,

(16:43):
we're not mad. Everything's fine. Look they're cute. See when
we go back to what was one of his original prototypes,
the robot named Liliputt, you know, the idea of like
when you miniat your eyes something, even if it's like
a man, you know, or a machine man, it makes
it less scary. Yeah, yeah, there is something to that,

(17:06):
but it's still is obviously a bit of a of
a pr move to emphasize that, and I'm sure there
was some prodding and encouragement to kind of make some
of these weapons of war, and that become that can
become problematic, right especially to your point, Ban so close
to you know, such a horrific event, as as Russia

(17:28):
one hundred percent. Yeah, And the toy distributor Juizawa Shokai
displays this bomber at a nineteen fifty one toy fair
in New York, and people immediately placed orders for hundreds
of thousands of these planes. They eventually sell close to
a million toy B twenty nine bombers in the US alone,

(17:52):
And things like this are huge part of why the
tin toy industry blows up from eight million yen per
year in nineteen forty seven to eight billion yen per
year by nineteen fifty five, and again the majority of
these toys went to the West, right, because you know

(18:12):
it's it's oh, Ma'm sorry, that's a harp on this,
but it's like, it is kind of interesting, you know,
the country that we destroyed manufacturing little kind of keepsakes
of our supremacy and then selling them back to us. Yeah,
you can see the controversy, right, you can. You can

(18:33):
see why if you are a parent, you might not
want your kid to be playing with this stuff, right,
So let's get to the controversy. Yeah, it bubbles to
the surface. In nineteen fifty one, an organization of teachers
in various women's groups team up and launch a nationwide

(18:53):
campaign and say stop manufacturing military themed toys. And the
toy makers say, hey, look, we're not doing propaganda. We're
just reflecting the world in which these children live. They
see these jeeps, tanks, other military planes on a daily basis.
They're part of daily life, so why should we pretend

(19:14):
it's otherwise. Becauseuj goes back to Tokyo nineteen forty seven
and he starts a design studio called Tokyo Zusaku Ko
Geisha or Tokyo Creative Arts and it's really close to
where his old pre war factory is or was, excuse me,
and he wants to try to make new improvements, right.

(19:36):
He wants to make a wind up car that could
sense the edge of a table before it falls off.
He sells ten thousand of those, and then he thinks, Okay,
I get the controversy. I can't build jeeps forever. I
still love cars, though, so he ends up saying, let's

(19:57):
build a nineteen fifty Cadillac Sedan. And the timing wasn't
like awful it was. It was it was a little bit,
let's just say, um, opportunistic. But it was a kind
of peace timing. We weren't seeing US soldiers in the
streets as often, you know, Japan now had its independence.

(20:18):
There was this exciting kind of forward thinking attitude, you know,
of of prosperity and the future. It was so bright
that everyone was constantly wearing shades. It was. It was
a good time, essentially, and it was an opportune time,
like I said, potentially not the most positive of ways
to capitalize on this, you know. Okay, well, now we

(20:40):
don't have these things as a facet of our daily
lives anymore, so let's you know, KAUAIU fy them like
you were saying, Ben, make them a little less scary,
and then sell them back to the kids. M. Yeah, yeah,
and this makes sense right. It turns out Couge as
the car man has hit two birds with one stone.

(21:01):
When he originally chose the Deep, it was a symbol
of American and military might. But they were also tapping
into that fascination you mentioned earlier. Nol with passenger cars
all around the world, and they knew that military asside.
Postwar America was also obsessed with cars. In nineteen fifty

(21:24):
there were twenty five million registered cars in the US.
Just eight years later, nineteen fifty eight, that number more
than doubled. Literally, and this is true. Literally everyone wanted
a Cadillac, even if it wasn't the real Cadillac. I'm
sure there were a couple of guys who like hit
on their girlfriends saying, hey, babe, I got you a

(21:46):
Cadillac Marry Christmas. Yeah, technically it's a Cadillac, just not
the one you can drive. It's funny. I think it
was around the same period that like car miniaturization and
stuff became really popular. My grandfather worked for like tobacco
companies and stuff, and so he had all these kind

(22:06):
of you know, tobacco adjacent sort of luxury goods items
that it was gifted. And when he passed away, my
aunt pulled this out of his storage for me. It's
a like a giant like fair lane type vehicle and
it inside of it is hidden a bottle of Jim
Beam whiskey. In order to get the whiskey out, you
gotta take like the trunk cover off and then the

(22:29):
little spout is right. It's really weird and interesting and
I have no idea the quality remaining in that whiskey,
but I have it on my little bar cart and
it's super cool. It makes you kind of want to
seek some of the stuff out because it's it is
so cool. And it could be potentially though, a real
rabbit hole in a money pit, though I could tell, oh,
I'm sure. Yeah. I pulled up eBay just to poke

(22:50):
around a little bit last week where we're working on
this one, and yeah, it could be a rabbit hole.
And it was back in the fifties two. At the
outbreak of the Korean War in nineteen fifty the US

(23:11):
government sent three billion dollars worth of orders to Japan
for production and transport of wartime materials to the Korean peninsula,
stuff like rope wire, food, ammo, and they even had
some Japanese built copies of American jeeps. This was terrible

(23:35):
the Korean Wars. It was a terrible conflict as well,
which still hasn't officially ended between North Korea and South
Korea to this day. They've just got a ceasefire. But
this was a huge economic opportunity for Japan. Also, these
Japanese firms started building a lot of factories like mad
They needed to build all sorts of transport infrastructure to

(23:58):
satisfy like to make good in these military orders. And
as one ambassador put it in nineteen fifty two, Japan
became quote one huge supply depot without which the Korean
War could not have been fought. And now that these
things are happening, now that the foundries are restarted, now
that there's high quality domestic steel being produced, you don't

(24:21):
have to go through the trash heaps for ten cans.
But it's it's that kind of I've got to keep
us in the word ingenuity, and I'm sorry if it's
not a broken record. It reminds me of like what
the Coca Cola company did during um World War two
in Germany. They used apple scraps, you know, to make
Fanta that you know that and eventually was turned into

(24:44):
an orange drink. But at the time it was like
a replacement for Coca Cola. And then, you know, once
wartime kind of settled out and all that's so they
didn't have to use apple scraps anymore. But at the
time they saw a niche, they filled it and they
were able to use what was available to them at
the time. And I I always love seeing examples of
that from throughout history. And this is where after surviving

(25:06):
so many harrowing things, becausej is able to make his
make his ideal toys. Because now they have the all
the stuff they need, gears, springs, precision components, they can
upgrade everything. They don't have to mcgiver it anymore. They
spent a year refining every aspect of manufacturing, from the

(25:31):
sculpting to the molds, all the details, and at the
end they came up with this Cadillac thirteen inches long,
absolutely perfect to scale. It has all this fancy lacquer paint,
it's got chrome. You know, they put a lot of
effort into this and texture on the Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

(25:55):
Now that we're talking about this, it's almost like whenever
we do a show about food, end up wanting whatever
food we're talking about. I'm trying to talk myself these
out of Yeah, I know, we can vote, and now
the rest of our day is going to be us
going Maybe I do need a little tin Cadillac. I mean,
at the very least, there probably are replicas, you know,

(26:15):
because these are easier to mass produce now than at
the time. You know, I mean, I don't necessarily need
a vintage one, but I think I want something that
represents this, uh, this educational journey that we've gone on,
because I'll tell you a lot of this stuff. You know,
I kind of knew in the back of my mind
about this history in Japan, this kind of just you know,
um super creative kind of you know, attitude that really

(26:38):
carried forward into all the things that we I think,
you know, contemporarily love about Japanese culture. But it really
gave me a deeper understanding, you know, of the groundwork
that was laid that led to the Nintendos and and
Pokemons and manga and anime of the world. You know,
I mean so much stuff that happened in that country
that to mention the ancient, you know, history of the

(26:59):
culture that, as we discussed early on, still always kind
of had that aesthetic twist to it. You know, things
like the art of flower arrangement, ikebana and all of
those kinds of things. It's always been this incredible, you know,
organized kind of beauty to Japanese culture, and I think
this really kind of took it into the modern edge

(27:21):
a little bit. Yeah, and I you know, I'm a
huge fan of the Japanese mech toys, the model kits
you can assingle. I get those, I put them together. Actually,
I have a couple. You paint them as well. That's
one thing I didn't realize. There's a lot of those kits.
You gotta paint them. Yeah. I don't do the painted ones.
Maybe one day. It's just it's a cool hobby to have.

(27:41):
What what you guys will love traveling Japan and anybody
who has visited is going to know exactly what I'm
talking about. Nole Max. There are these things called gatch
upon machines, these mini vending machines. You put in some
in and they give you a small toy. It comes
out in a little sphere. It's about Yeah, I don't

(28:02):
know why I'm doing this on an audio podcast sized sphere,
and uh, and you can get all sorts of cool stuff.
Every time I visited Japan, we hit up at least
one gatch upon place. I don't know the economics. I
don't know how they work. It's like there's not a
front door. It's twenty four seven. There's just row after

(28:25):
row of these coin operated catch upon machines. They're addictive.
I'm just are they in an arcade setting or they're
in arcades too? Sometimes they're their own thing. It's weird, man,
It's like, uh, the US doesn't have something that's the
equivalent of that. You know, on a flight recently been

(28:45):
we had kind of a run of travel lately. I
rewatched for the first timing years. Uh, the Sofia Coppola
movie Lost in Translation. Oh yeah, yeah, that was a
film that you know, really it showed a lot of
that stuff, like a lot of the arcades and a
lot of the kind of like you know, interesting features.
Maybe you know, maybe to some that have spent time there,
they'd be like, oh, I roll, this is all just

(29:06):
kind of like maybe what's the word like exoticize. I
don't think it does do that, though, I would argue
I think that film has a very interesting kind of
painter leave view where you're kind of the outsider experiencing
that culture, and it really really did between that while
were watching that film how much I loved that when
I was younger, and then hearing your stories about your

(29:27):
travels really maybe want to go. Um, so I hope
to achieve that. Let's go together, man, Yeah, let's trip
of it. Oh yeah, I'm one. That's not such a
planform Okay, drive, we can drive there together in our
tiny fair lane. Yeah. Catch catch though, to get across
the ocean, we'll go in a hot air balloon. Hell yeah,
what I like the switch? So this is okay? Okay, wait,

(29:50):
one fan together on an adventure Wizard of Hostyle. I
will that there's a it has to be worth it. Um.
I appreciate that, and we hope that you enjoyed this.
We wanted to dedicate the week to this story because
it is longer, but it ends in inspiration after it

(30:11):
goes through so many ups and downs, we thought this
was going to be a great two parter. First and
foremost inspirationally speaking, Japanese is number one. They finally did
surpass rights Germany, right, yes, yeah, by a margin of
quite a lot. You know. Again, we do still see

(30:31):
some German toys and obviously Legos are based in Denmark,
so I mean, you know, we that's a biggie obviously.
But yeah, Japanese toys massive, massive, massive industry. Absolutely. I
mean that's how you know you made it, if you
become a Japanese action figure, if there's a ten type
Japanese toy made in your likeness. And we have so

(30:54):
many people to thank for this. Definitely want to thank
our research associate doctor Zach who has been noodleing over
this for quite some time, and of course, of course
thanks to the toymaker himself, super producer Max Williams. Yeah,
and this wanted to add it. Let's say, there's so

(31:14):
much in here that we we've kind of already brushed over,
but I do just want to add that, you know,
speaking of pop cultural impact, these toys in particular even
served as inspiration for some massively popular American culture, like
a nineteen fifty five Ford Lincoln futura that we that
I mentioned earlier looking at some of like the rare

(31:36):
kind of vintage Japanese tin toys. One of those the
toy served as the model for the Batmobile in the
nineteen sixty six Batman TV series. So boom, bap, zip poo,
And thanks again doctor Z for this incredible journey. Thanks
as well to Jonathan Strickland's aka the Quister thinks that
Alex Williams, who composed this slap and bop h Wills

(31:59):
will who else? Oh boy, you know, thank you, Ben.
I think we are both equally into this stuff and
it was really fun to nerd out with you about
Japanese toys. And thank you Noelan, thanks everybody for tuning in.
This is how much we like this story. We got
up early to do it. Oh yeah, let's just we
sound a little bunchy, that's why. But I think it

(32:21):
was fun. Max is Hidding's forehead, like guys nine am
is not early. No, it's not early. But you did
make the calendar invites say ridiculous history at the crack
of dawn or something like that. So those are your words,
Max dot Rs yep, those are my exact words. Also,
where we're recording at is the Morningtime Riverside Cafe aka

(32:42):
at the same place as always love it. We'll see
you next time, folks. For more podcasts from my Heart Radio,
visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen
to your favorite shows.