October 7, 2025 • 48 mins
As one of the most isolated countries on the planet, it's no surprise the Democratic People's Republic of Korea remains mysterious in the modern day. So, how did it become a thing? In today's episode, Ben, Noel and Max explore the bizarre origin story of the "Hermit Kingdom," a totalitarian regime that is somehow both Communist and an absolute theocracy.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to
(00:27):
the show, fellow Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always so
much for tuning in. Uh, let's hear it for our
dear leader himself, mister Max Williams.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Is there any like good North Korean chants?
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Yeah? Yeah, yeah, Actually we'll play one in a second.
I'm bed bully that ish. Noel Brown returned from some journeys. Noel,
to the degree that you're comfortable, can you share with
our our fellow listeners, Uh, your your soujeans abroad?
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
I returned to my homeland, the fatherland, deutsch Land. I
wandered the black forests hunting for elk with my later
Hozen and my tiny bow and arrow. No, I don't
know about that. You know, it's crazy, man. I was
around Lake Constance, which is referred to in Germany as Bowden's,
(01:23):
a lovely little seaside kind of town, lakeside town. And
to get there, I went through Munich, and I actually
stayed in Munich the night before I flew out. In
that very day there was a bombing at Octoberfest, and
I just narrowly missed that. It was right down the
street from my hotel. Man, so no one is safe,
(01:46):
even the revelers at Octoberfest. You know, it's just man
not to start off with a bummer.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
But that that did.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
Kind of make me feel a little bit, you know,
hashtag blest, I guess, but.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
I mean, of course, I'm I'm so happy you're safe, bro.
I also, on a positive note, want to thank you
again in person on air for sending me a picture
of a dirigible. You actually inspired a conversation I had
on the Daily Zeitgeist recently, friends of the show all
(02:19):
about airships. It just made by day, so thank you.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
I didn't make it, but I didn't really know why.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
There were so many zeppelins everywhere, not just advertising, but
it just seemed like it was very much a feature
of the area. And in the little town that I
stayed near the lake called Meersburg, they have a zeppelin museum.
And I know you will give a wag a finger
at me for not making it, Man, but I couldn't
make it work. But next time. It's a lovely area,
(02:47):
by the way, if anyone ever is looking to see
what you know, And the most idyllic of German burghs
looks like I look no further than Meersburg or the
Lake Constance area.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
And no wagging the thing. I don't find that constructive,
but I do you know me well, I do love
a specific medium. And one of the weirdest ones I've
ever seen, dude, was on the border of the Korean
Peninsula on the thirty eighth parallel.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
If you by.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
I always trying to bring you little gifts when when
I'm traveling. Folks, if you ever have the chance to
visit the Korean Peninsula, do so. The food is amazing.
We're huge fans of Korean food on this show. The
(03:43):
people are lovely, the technology is fascinating, and the culture
is rich and astonishing. But one caveat, as we know
you're probably if you're from the United States especially, you
probably want to stick to the south side of the peninsula.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Yeah, I would think.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
So.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
It's not it's not exactly a tourist destination yet, but
you can't hang out in kind of the no.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
Man's land, which we're going to get to a little
bit later.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
And there's some very interesting, let's just call it lightly
if not heavily propagandistic attractions there.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
Right, Yeah, yeah, yeah, So for almost the century for
Nyon eighty years. The historical region of Korea, the peninsula
there in East Asia, has been split in twain. The
southern half is the Republic of Korea, which we in
the West just call Korea. The northern half, however, is
(04:38):
the Democratic People's Republic of Korea aka the Hermit Nation,
or to most folks again in the West, just North Korea.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
You know, I've always wondered why they call it the
Hermit Nation, but I guess it's just specifically referring to
like they don't get out much.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
No, no, it's it's illegal for them to do so.
Now yeah, now we asked, know you earlier asked at
the top for a sound que maybe a little bit
of ao audio cinema here. So what what about this?
Why don't we play just a brief clip of the
(05:15):
biggest party in town in North Korea over there in
their capital, yeong Yang. It's called the Mass Games. The
are a wrong mass games, And I'd love to play
this for you and hear your reactions. This is yeah, okay, cool,
This is for context. This is a mass exhibition of
(05:40):
children doing gymnastics. So you see that animation in the
back there, So cool. Yeah, that's all human made. By
(06:01):
the way those are. That's literally thousands of people, and
they have these color coded cards that they use to
create that image of a It looks like a kid
dreaming while they're holding a pencil leaning over a textbook.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
What do you think he's dreaming of Ben, He's dreaming happy.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
He's dreaming of the Eternal Leader.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
Okay, yeah, he's off screen.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
He's off screen for sure.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
Always.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
So as as as you know, well, noul Lo, these
many years, North Korea, the DPRK has mystified the rest
of the world because it is a very strange place.
We talked about this a little bit on our sister
show Stuff. They don't want you to know. Today's episode,
(06:52):
today's question. How did it come to be? Let I mean,
let's find out, because DPRK is kind of a new
kid on the block.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
Yeah, it's true.
Speaker 3 (07:02):
It is an ancient land Korea as a whole, But
the history of the DPRK is relatively recent, like you mentioned,
beginning at the close of World War Two. There in
nineteen forty five, when Japan went ahead and surrendered to
the Allies, the Korean Peninsula was split in twain down
the thirty eighth parallel between Earth's biggest modern frenemies, the USSR, China,
(07:30):
and the United States of America. With the Nazis on
the outs, or at least on their way to the outs,
the Soviets and the Americans were looking towards a new
goal of expanding their conflicting ideologies across the world. The
Soviets and communist China on the north side of the
parallel saw the new territory as both a buffer against
(07:52):
the encroaching Americans and an opportunity to demonstrate the massive
advantages of the great Communist Dream. Then that I was
in Germany as I'm working on a series that is
centered around the Cold War and the Berlin Wall and
a lot of trafficking of humans from the east side
of the wall, the Communist side, to the west side
(08:13):
of the wall.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
And it's a very similar split here in terms.
Speaker 3 (08:16):
Of like, the Communists got all that stuff on that
one side, and the Americans more or less were, you know,
in support of the stuff on the other side, and
never the twain shall meet, And all of these conflicts
that you might not think immediately would be an issue
became a total issue, which led to this shutting down
of the border less people on the Communist side, you know,
(08:38):
feel left out or something or like felt like I
feel as though there was stuff going on the other
side of the wall that did not include them. And
this isolationist mentality really took over to the point where,
very similarly to the divide between North and South Korea,
utterly illegal to travel from one side of the Berlin
Wall to the other on pain of death. And which
(09:01):
is why a lot of very crafty folks got into
the business, some for profit, some for the idea the
right things, ideological reasons of moving people across that divide.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
No, I was thinking of you recently as as I
was revisiting my old state department days with the with
the idea of this division, because history is a palimpsest, folks,
if you go to uh, if you go to Berlin now,
you can still see the legacy of the divide of
(09:35):
the wall. East Germany in particular tends to have lower
economic performance. A lot of the stats you would imagine
about demographics still carry with them the burden, the albatross
of that great divide. And look, when, as you were saying,
when the when the Allied forces and the communist forces
(09:59):
are diving up this peninsula. They know from the jump
this is an unsustainable situation. These two occupying they're not
really countries, these two occupying powers or gangs.
Speaker 3 (10:15):
Yeah, right, supporters, I guess I'm sort of like, these
are our guys and these are our guys.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
Yeah, very much a vassal state situation, these two places,
these two great powers, cannot agree on the best way
to reunify the peninsula. Korea has historically considered itself one thing,
one people, quite homogeneous, so by nineteen forty eight, as
(10:41):
a result of these disagreements and negotiations, the two great powers,
the communists and the capitalists, set up two separate governments.
And the pickle of it is the badger in the bag,
is that each of these governments on the same peninsula
claimed that they had of renedy over the entire area.
(11:02):
So stuff was real awkward from nineteen forty eight to
nineteen fifty when the conflict went hot and kinetic, what
we call the Korean War broke out, and it was
a beat me here, Max, please. It was a shit show.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
It was, and it had some interesting alternate names.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
I guess, depending on where you stood some of these
I was not aware of. I would tell us a
little bit about some of these and kind of what
the uh, I don't know a little the stank on
each of them might be.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
Yeah, it's kind of like.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
How in the US you call it the Vietnam War,
but in Vietnam it has a different name. In the
United States, you called this conflict in nineteen fifty to
nineteen fifty three, you call it the Korean War, sometimes
the Forgotten War, the DPRK. The North Korean government calls
(11:52):
it the Fatherland Liberation War because of their mind, you know,
it's the righteous, holy thing to do.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
There lies the stank, right.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
Everyone's putting their own little spin on it, depending on
which side of the divide you fall.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
Yeah, in South Korea and the ROK it's called the
six two five after the day it started. And China's
name for it, which I think is our mutual favorite,
is the War to resist US aggression and age Korea.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
The stankiest of them all.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
Yeah, they put some spin on it, for sure, But
the issue is we're talking about this war. In the past,
tense conflict raged back and forth. It looked for a
time to be anyone's game. This war has not ended.
As you are hearing this episode, we're recording it on Thursday,
October two, twenty twenty five, while the Korean War continues.
(12:48):
It's there's no official peace treaty. Neither side has surrendered
nor seems likely to. It's a temporary cease fire. So
these folks have been on time, came out for decades
and decades.
Speaker 3 (13:03):
Yeah, it's a cold war very much. So, yeah, I
mean it's it's there's so many parallels between this situation
and what happened there in Berlin and the idea of
a cold war being that sort of like technically were
on pause. But life goes on and tensions do tend
to simmer.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
Do you remember that? You know? I'm in love with
eighties and nineties sitcom themes, not the actual strangers, just
as the There's One, there.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
Was a goal to done were described the plot of
the damn exactly.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
Shout out to the nanny, right, uh, mister Belvigere, Yeah,
mister bell oh Man, first time I skipped Fresh Prince.
Of course, have fresh friends put some respect on the
name as much.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
The the one thing that I'm remembering immediately I rediscovered
a sleeper hit called Dear John.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
Did you ever hear John?
Speaker 1 (14:01):
I will send you the theme.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
The theme has been a massive sleeper hit like.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
Ozamandius. It was a big deal in its day. It's
all about a guy who has a acrimonious breakup with
his partner. She leaves him, and she leaves a letter,
a Dear John letter. And that letter is it's a
breakup letter. Yeah, okay, and it's a so it's uh.
(14:30):
The entire show is about this guy named in a
burst of creativity John and his buddies he meets in
therapy and the high jinks they get into.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
Got it So a bit of a sad sack kind
of kind of character.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
Sweet Little Ted lasso to it. But do check out
the theme song for Dear John. I'll send it to
you guys after this recording you fight on YouTube. The
Korean Warp is not from taxi. Yeah yeah. The Korean
Warp is also an acrimony stalemate. The thirty eighth Parallel
(15:02):
becomes the Demilitarized Zone. We call it the DMZ for short,
and it remains one of the most dangerous, fascinating areas
on the planet today. China also remains an official ally
of North Korea, so much so that when people try
to escape North Korea and make it to a third
(15:26):
party embassy in China, China will capture them. They don't
consider them political refugees, they consider them illegal economic migrants,
and they turn them back into North Korea.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
Yike. Sort of a bit of an understanding, I suppose.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
Yeah, yeah, really terrible one too, because horrific things happen
to defectors and their families if they're caught. So the West,
as you said, has been in a cold war with
North Korea, which ultimately, if you game it out, is
our proxy war with China since pretty much the end
of World War Two. And that's part of the reason
(16:06):
Uncle Sam and other countries don't just enter North Korea
and do some government overthrow, because if they did, the
rulers of China Uncle Ji would get very mad, very quickly.
Speaker 3 (16:21):
Well yeah, I mean, I know it's not This is
maybe not the venue to fully unpack all of this,
but I'm always confused with that, like steadfast support that
China gives to North Korea, much like some of the
steadfast support that we give to Israel. It's always just
(16:41):
confused me a little bit about what the motivations are
where that comes. I'm not trying to be hot button
here about it, but maybe you can see how I
would connect those relationships a little bit.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
I could see I could see the parallels in the
structure the mechanisms of those relationships, because in both cases
there's a mix of ideology, there's a mix of resource extraction.
And in the case of the Korean Peninsula in particular,
China is investing in a bulwark in a buffer zone. Right,
(17:13):
So North Korea, for China is kind of its own
bigger DMZ. It's looking at Uncle Sam and the bases
out there around Seoul and so on, the capital of
South Korea, and it's going give me five feet, give
me a distance.
Speaker 3 (17:30):
In the event of some sort of invasion or military assault.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
Yeah, especially given that North Korea is now technically a
nuclear power. North Korea was taking cues from the Soviets
when the whole operation began, and they said, we're going
to build a massive centralized economy like you were saying,
(17:54):
showing the power of the communist ideals, you know, they
issue capitalism, and they aimed to build a new paradise
on Earth, and they said it's going to be uniquely Korean,
and it's going to be thoroughly communist on paper, it's
not quite communist, Noel, because they found a leader, the
(18:15):
infamous war heroe Kim Il sung, and Kim Il Sung
quickly becomes more than a political figure. He's the centerpiece
of a new nationwide cult of personality. North Korea began
and continues to worship this man as a god. His
family has ruled the area ever ever since.
Speaker 3 (18:37):
And he was taking cues for sure from you know,
the hits Stalin and Mao, and in Kim Ilsong, those
two leaders of the USSR and China found the perfect
candidate to run their new country. Like you said, Ben
as something of a vassal state. This was pretty sharp
(18:57):
and also pretty insidious.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
Agreed, because here's what they're doing. They're finding a dictator
to push their values right and they want to hold
their space in the great monopoly game of geopolitics. But
they need him to appear to be homegrown, So they
need a Korean guy so they can say, hey, this
(19:22):
is an independent country that happens to agree with us.
But they were giving the orders, they were running the
place without officially occupying it, and Kim Ilsong is so fascinating.
He had various other titles over the decades. So he's
born in nineteen twelve, right, and he rules North Korea
(19:44):
from nineteen forty eight all the way up until he
passes away in nineteen ninety four. He was It was
similar to Vladimir Putin, where people just kept throwing different
titles and accolades upon them. His current posthumous title is
literally right now, the eternal Leader.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
In a burst of humility, as you'd like to say,
Ben in.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
A burst of humility, as we like to say. His
totalitarian regime is beyond domestic reproach. There were and are
no opposition parties. That's a thing that doesn't happen. There
are no civic minded independent groups. And for a little while,
this is the thing the Americans forget. For a little while, objectively,
(20:30):
they were doing well despite their extensive, aggressive violations of
anything slightly resembling human rights.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 3 (20:40):
In fact, by the sixties, North Korea had a higher
standard of living than the American aligned South Korea, which
was beset on all sides with economic and political turmoil.
And North Korea never forgave the US for its activities
during the Korean War, and a big part of their
(21:02):
ideology was decrying the Americans as belligerent imperialists. The North
Korean government has consistently demanded, so far without any particular success,
that the United States Uncle Sam remove itself from the
peninsula entirely, and they even seized an American vessel, the
USS Pueblo in nineteen sixty eight. However, by the seventies,
(21:25):
things started to take a bit of a turn.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
Yeah, this is where South Korea, the ROK recovers from
the chaos and the corruption. Well they never really recovered
from the corruption, but anyway, they start making a lot
of money. They get very involved in advantageous international trade.
At the same time, North Korea increasingly hermiting off. It
(21:51):
starts to falter and collapse as it is straying from
the usual Soviet communist ideology. The biggest distinction is that
Kim Il sung, the eternal leader, has this philosophy that
gets sold to the domestic population. It's called jeu cha.
(22:14):
Jeu Cha is I'm going to be diplomatic. According to
the official North Korean sources, jew Cha is the final
form of communism and it's focused on Korean nationalism, cultural preservation,
self reliance, and also I hate the Americans, I hate
(22:36):
the Japanese, and if you roll with them, screw you too.
Speaker 3 (22:41):
So it's not just the kind of communism that on paper,
you know, some folks are wont to say, Wow, that'd.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
Be great if it worked like that.
Speaker 3 (22:48):
But this is even its own kind of specialized, hyper
nationalized version of that.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
Yeah, in everything but name, it's a theocracy.
Speaker 3 (23:00):
Really.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
The Soviets were not particularly tickled with this development.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
But no, that's our thing. You can't take our thing
and just run with it.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
Well, they said, we gave you the thing, we franchised.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
You, now you're styling on it.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
We stopped putting new stuff on the menu, you know,
Like it's as though, for the capitalist version, it's like
if McDonald's found out that a store in Oklahoma or
Florida had just started making eros without permission, Like, what's
what's up with these eros?
Speaker 2 (23:35):
You guys?
Speaker 1 (23:36):
Still everybody shrugged, and they said, what are you going
to do? And they knew the great game was still afoot,
So they supported North Korea along with China, through funding,
through subsidies, through all kinds of Shenanigans all the way
up until the Soviet Union itself fell in nineteen ninety
one and the Berlin Wall started tumbling down, et cetera.
Speaker 3 (24:00):
One hundred percent. This was not a good thing for
North Korea. Without the support that they'd been receiving, their
economy got worse.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
This led to widespread.
Speaker 3 (24:12):
And absolutely horrific conditions, including famine throughout the land in
nineteen ninety four, when the eternal Leader passed away. It's
really important to remember that Kim not only outlived Mao
and Stalin, his buddies and sort of you know, ideological mentors,
but over his reign, six different South Korean presidents also
(24:34):
came and went, and ten American presidents came and went.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
Yeah, so this is a long time strong man, one
of the best to do it, actually, if you put
aside the ethics for a second. Also, just to clarify here, folks,
the Berlin Wall, the fall of it that we're referencing
occurs in November of nineteen eighty nine, So we're being
a little figurative, but that's one of the most parallels.
(25:00):
It's one of the most historically important death throws or
red flags of the Red flags. All right, we'll keep
it of the Soviet Union. Following in ninety one, scary
red flags.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
Yeah, no, kidd.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
So Kim Il sung passes away in nineteen ninety four,
the nation goes into an intense period of grief. Do
a no small part to the fact that there is
such horrific famine that cannibalism does exist. It does happen.
Survival cannibalism occurs. Kim Il Sung's son, Kim Jong Il,
(25:38):
shout out, whoop. Max is a big fan. That's what
we say about when he's not around. Kim za Yil
succeeded him, and then Kim jong Il rules with an
iron fist. He leads the charge on becoming a nuclear power.
He passes away. He is succeeded by Kim Il Sung's
(25:59):
grand son, the current ruler, Kim Jong un.
Speaker 3 (26:03):
Well, it's interesting because, I mean, you know, even though
this is technically a communist regime, as you may have gotten,
the sense of this is a dynasty.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
Yeah, it's a family business. It's communism for ninety five
percent of the country, right, and it's also a theocracy.
But if you're at the top, you know there's no
short it's no secret that the West has a lot
of propaganda aimed at North Korea. So your browser search
(26:34):
away from hearing all sorts of wild stories. We'll probably
get to some of these. It's weird. It's an absolute monarchy,
it's a theocracy, but it's.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
Secular, so that's right.
Speaker 3 (26:48):
It's technically an atheist state, right, And this cult of
personality is i mean, probably the best example of a
pure cult of personality. I literally just googled North Korean religion,
and the religion in North Korea is ju see yes, right,
it is you are meant to worship the leaders.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
Which is okay.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
I'm going to get in trouble for this, but you know,
pre podcast, this was a thing I had to learn
a lot about and jeu cha, might itself be kind
of a grift. I don't know if I'm going to
be able to get back in there after I say
this on air, but jeu cha, if you look at
Kim Elsung's actual writing, it basically just translates to the subject.
(27:35):
And then other people are using the big leaf of
communism to rationalize this worship of this one particular family,
and anybody who doesn't comply is going to be punished
with incarceration, losing job opportunities, sent off the forced labor
(27:57):
for life, they might be killed, not just them, but
their families as well. Unto the third generation, these folks
hold grudges.
Speaker 3 (28:06):
Oh yeah, absolutely, persona non grata all down the line.
So let's talk a little bit about that pure cult
of personality. The North Korean cultive personality that surrounds the
Kim family can be found in a lot of examples.
Ever witnessed been firsthand of North Korean culture. Now this
isn't directly acknowledged by the state, by the North Korean government,
(28:29):
but many defectors and visitors from western regions have witness
and report stiff penalties for anyone who would dare to
criticize or to not show proper deference or the current
or former leaders of the country.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
Yeah, anthropologically put, there is a disconnect between a lot
of other places in the world, And I mean there's
a there's a cultural chasm between what we would consider
proper respect and what the people of North Korea and
the government in North Korea would consider proper respect.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
Have you bowed deep enough?
Speaker 1 (29:12):
Did you take a picture at the wrong time, did
you say something and Australians get in trouble for this
all the time. Did you say something that you thought
was a funny joke and it was seen as disrespectful. Look,
the personality cult was definitely in play soon after Kimmelsung
took power in forty eight, But when he died in
(29:35):
nineteen ninety four, amid this famine, this economic collapse, they
turned the gas up so high on the personality cult,
on this Orwellian worship of things. That's partially due to
I mean, it's due to several factors, but the main
factor operationally is that they needed to convince these people
(29:59):
who are having horrible time. They needed to convince these
people that Kim Il sung is God and that therefore
his children are the right rulers. So the North Korean
government's official position is, yeah, we don't have a cult
of personality. We as a people just all agree this
(30:22):
is the best family. We just all organically do this,
not because of consequences, because we're right.
Speaker 3 (30:32):
And that's you know, that's not to say that there
aren't folks that live there who don't fully believe this
stuff with every you know, fiber of their being. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:43):
Yeah, and that's a great point because this is this
is descended from Confucianism, right, from the idea of a
of a hierarchy of family in a hierarchy of society
that is indisputable and immovable. And so this confusion is
has been weaponized. You have to adore the leaders. It
(31:03):
reminds me of you remember Stalin, right, yeah, that guy,
yeah from earlier.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
We sang now I'm really fun at parties.
Speaker 1 (31:12):
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He was a blast. Well, so,
as you mentioned previously, our buddy Kim took a lot
accues from the Mao Instalin personality quotes. And I always
remember the old story about people being terrified when they
watched speeches by Joseph Stalin. Nobody so people would start
(31:36):
clapping right, always a standing ovation, no matter what he says,
and people would clap for a very very long time
because everyone was afraid to be the first person to
stop clapping. You might look disloyal. It's a scary thing.
It's definitely in play in North Korea. Not cheering hard
(31:58):
enough it's a bad look. People might start to ask questions,
and asking questions or seeming disloyal pretty much anything can
land you in the camps and the camps are heinous.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (32:13):
Their human rights abuses have been widely reported, are well known,
proven and to your point, ben heinous. In two thousand
and nine, there is some satellite imagery that was unearthed
showing a lot about the way the Kyms lived, which
was pretty high on the hog, as well as the
(32:34):
terrifying subjugation of their people, the North Korean people. We
were able to see photographs showing details of Hua Soong
concentration Camp, which is generally referred to as Camp sixteen.
It's one of North Korea's most notorious prison camps. In
The Wall Street Journal reported that it is roughly three
(32:56):
hundred square miles containing around twenty thousand political prisoners, located
near a facility for testing nuclear weapons.
Speaker 1 (33:06):
Yeah, yeah, again, this is the gnarly stuff, and we
have to talk about it. We know the horrors of
these prisons, all right, and even knowing that the West
has a lot of silly anti North Korean propaganda, there
are real, actionable and substantive human rights abuses occurring over
(33:32):
there in the north of the Peninsula. We're talking not
just starvation and disease, but also infanticide, which is the
murder of children, especially in cases where you know, if
you go to the wrong camp, if you do something
the government finds egregious enough, then you are no longer
a person. You are not only in some cases you're
(33:53):
not even forced into manual labor. You're forced into purpose
fleet meaningless manual labor. And pregnant women due to that
three generation rule have been incarcerated and they lose the kids,
and they're increasing the use of surveillance and forced labor,
(34:14):
severe punishments. They're ratcheting it up to maintain total control
as things collapse. You can read about this, of course
and things like Human Rights Watch, but the recent United
Nations report is from like this year, showing how profoundly
this has escalated. You can get the death penalty for
(34:42):
anything considered an anti state activity. That includes drug use,
although meth amphetamines were huge for a while. What could
be seen as pornography, human trafficking because so many people
try to get out, distribution of unauthorized media thought crime basically, right,
don't go in there and start showing people, you know,
(35:07):
like an episode of Peacemaker, that's treasonous. And then economic
crimes like a free market. You grow some extra rice,
you got some wheat, you try to sell it to
make a little side hustle. That's also treason US. And
of course, you know, this would be the moment where
in many other countries someone would pop up on YouTube
(35:29):
or a late night talk show and they would say, Hey,
this is kind of weird and not normal, right, not
happening there. All media is controlled by the government.
Speaker 2 (35:40):
For sure.
Speaker 3 (35:41):
And you know, it's easy to be hyperbolic about a
lot of stuff that's going on in this country right
now and say we're descending into these types of conditions.
And while there's certainly some troubling indications that free speech
is being cracked down on, we have a long way
to go to get anywhere approaching what's been going going
on in this part of the world for a very
(36:02):
long time.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
Yeah, I agree with you. The US is far from perfect.
It's always been kind of a hold my beer experiment.
It's a very young country that swings above its weight class.
But it is a heck of a lot less stressful
to know you live in a place where, for now
you can say what you want without getting black bagged.
(36:23):
That was a nice one on behalf of the founding fathers,
So good on you, guys.
Speaker 3 (36:28):
It would seem that that is remaining a safeguard of
some degree. With the Kimel situation, there's certainly a lot
of saber rattling, and you know, this idea of pulling
him off the air and Sinclair and all that stuff
folding the line. But a lot of that stuff has
been reversed. And I'm not saying it's not a mega
slippery slope and it's not going to revert and possibly
(36:50):
even get worse than it already was. But it was
a little bit heartening, and we're being positive here to
see that that stuff didn't hold and that there is
some sense of the constitution.
Speaker 1 (37:02):
Now, folks, with all this information, we know what you're thinking.
Long time ridiculous historians. Surely all of us are saying, guys,
I love it. I can't wait to visit the good
ish news. You may be able to depend on where
you're from, as you know, Noelan Max. I've been over
(37:22):
to the border twice, both times, very surreal experience, beyond surreal.
It's one of the most heavily surveilled and militarized areas
of the world, right there on the borders of the
DMZ because that's the only part that's demilitarized, and it's
riddled with minds. The border is heavily patrolled. It's also
(37:45):
heavily monetized. There are tons of tourist trapped things, and
there's a lot of South Korean propaganda too. You buy merchants, swag,
historical artifacts. Oh oh wait, let me show you something,
hey guy, you'd love this. Yeah, you got what you
got know? This is wild blueberry wine from backdu Mountain.
Speaker 2 (38:09):
Is that in a box like chicken broth?
Speaker 1 (38:12):
It's uh, it is here, I could open it.
Speaker 2 (38:15):
Oh, I got it. It's a it's a packet.
Speaker 3 (38:17):
There's a bottle inside of it. Yeah, okay, I'm not
a very sypy looking wine, my friend. It looks something
like you pour on pekins. I feel like it's sketchy.
So I got it, and I'm never I mean even
in Oh that's a shell piece, my friends. No need
to sample it, just put it on a shelf.
Speaker 1 (38:32):
It's right up there with my Zamzam water, uh, which
is the holy water. So here's the thing. You can
get limited amounts of actual North Korean products like this
sketchy bottle of blueberry wine. However, depending on your nationality,
depending on how things are going in the world, entering
North Korea can be either impossible or fatally dangerous. And
(38:57):
I think it'd be cool for us to This is
a long quote, but I think it'd be cool for
us to round robin the warning that you see about
traveling to North Korea. It's directly from Wiki travel, which
is another fun website.
Speaker 2 (39:11):
I mean, first and foremost, you just yeah, got nobody
having your back essentially once there, I mean, yeah, let's
let's get let's just get you gotta They sum it
up beautifully.
Speaker 1 (39:22):
Let's take guys named Dennis Robmin the worm. They got
to call in the worm, all right.
Speaker 3 (39:28):
Many governments do not recommend to traveling to North Korea
due to the uncertain security situation caused by North Korea's
nuclear weapons development program and strict rules that are aggressively
enforced in the country.
Speaker 2 (39:41):
It continues.
Speaker 1 (39:42):
There are no US and Canadian diplomatic offices in the DPRK.
The ability of officials to provide consular assistance is extremely limited.
Speaker 3 (39:53):
Yeah, the Swedes have an office, but like, good luck
getting help from them. They're your only recourse. Sorry to editorial.
The ability of officials to provide consular assistance is extremely limited. Sweden,
through its embassy in Pyongyang, is the protecting power for Canadian,
American and Australian nationals if any emergency consular assistance is required.
(40:15):
How come Sweden gets one?
Speaker 1 (40:17):
Sweden goes everywhere. Man, they're just so friendly. Yeah, it continues.
Such assistance will likely be very limited due to the
unpredictability of the actions of the DPRK government and the leader.
If you engage in activities that insult or disparage the government,
(40:37):
you will face imprisonment, torture, beating, disappearances, and forced labor
for life until death, starvation and execution. Sorry, talk about
a list of like side effects. Right.
Speaker 2 (40:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (40:53):
So a lot of would be tourists kind of quibble
about the ethical implications of going in the first place, right, like,
if you go, are you not supporting this totalitarian and
brutally unethical but pretty much any standard reshime exactly.
Speaker 1 (41:13):
Yeah, that's the thing. It is true because if you visit,
no matter where you're from, if you visit, people are
usually going to fly in from some Chinese airlines. You
have to be pre registered with a state run tour operator.
They control everything the site visits, the restaurants, photography, conversations,
(41:33):
and these tour guides by the way, just so we know,
these two tour guides, like most North Korean people, are
super cool. They're just scared. They don't want to die,
they don't want their family torture, so they're doing their best.
And your hotel is going to be in Pyeongyang in
the capitol. Your hotel room is going to be bugged.
(41:55):
Don't touch anything that you don't have to touch because
the government does not who you are. It will arrest
you if they want for anything at your home. Government,
as we said, realistically, will not be able to do
much about it. You got to call in the worm,
you know. I mean, there's more to explore, and we
have to mention. We're ethically bound to mention the harrowing
(42:19):
atrocities occurring in North Korea, but we also you know,
I'm working on being more positive. It's tough, but.
Speaker 2 (42:26):
Same dude, It is tough, but yeah, we do the
best we can.
Speaker 1 (42:28):
Especially after that stuff film episode.
Speaker 2 (42:31):
That was a rough one.
Speaker 3 (42:32):
Do check that out if you want to get real
dark and non ridiculous over on stuff.
Speaker 2 (42:36):
They don't want you to know.
Speaker 3 (42:38):
And also I would recommend It's been a while since
I've seen it, but it was my first exposure to
a lot of this stuff. And this is a director
who's been kind of really having a moment lately, Wook
Chan Park or Chan Wook Park. One of his very
first films is called JSA, which stands for a Joint
Security Area and it is a political thriller that surrounds all.
Speaker 2 (43:00):
The stuff we're talking about here today.
Speaker 3 (43:02):
And it's not my favorite. It's a little dry and
a little procedural, but you can see the fingerprints of
someone that would go on to make masterpieces like Old
Boy and you know, the Sympathy series. And I believe
he's got a new one coming out soon that's supposed
to be a real contender that I don't know the
details about it.
Speaker 2 (43:20):
That's like you know, awards and such.
Speaker 1 (43:22):
That's a nice reference. And I did enjoy enjoys not
the right word. I was mystified by the little blue
building that you can hang out at. It's also where
they where they show videos and stuff.
Speaker 3 (43:35):
Right, didn't you say there's like constant on all the
kind of welcome videos, but there is like eagles and stuff.
Speaker 2 (43:40):
What you have to watch.
Speaker 1 (43:41):
You have to watch a thing about how great the
DMZ is for birds and natural wildlife on the South
Korean side. Yeah, North Korea is also home to one
of the world's most fascinating festivals. What we were playing earlier,
Ara Rang are a wrong as well as the DMZ.
Maybe that that's where we end because beauty can emerge
(44:02):
from horror. The DMZ dude similar to Chernobyl. It's a
textbook example of how the natural world can flourish when
the humans are removed from the equation.
Speaker 2 (44:14):
Yeah, it is quite the wildlife paradise. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (44:18):
Our favorite thing probably well, I don't want to speak
for you guys, but one of my favorite things is
of the more than five thousand animal and plant species
identified in the area, including more than one hundred that
are endangered in other parts of the world.
Speaker 2 (44:36):
There are rumors.
Speaker 1 (44:38):
Even to this day that the Amur leopard and the
Siberian tiger may roam the DMZ. Cool.
Speaker 2 (44:47):
That's cool. I likes cool.
Speaker 3 (44:49):
When you said it like that that I was picturing
you were going to like an encryptid direction, It's like, right,
uh huh, these are you know that level of rare?
Speaker 1 (44:58):
Yes, Yeah, one hundred percent. There Again, there's so much
other stuff we can get to. We do want to
point out again what we're saying about history being a
palimpsest within her generational consequences. Not just in East Berlin,
but if you look at this peninsula, you'll see that,
on average, due to malnutrition, North Korean citizens are going
(45:21):
to be one to three inches shorter than South Korean citizens.
Speaker 2 (45:26):
Da, I didn't know malnutrition made you shorter. I just
thought it made you skinnier.
Speaker 1 (45:30):
If you're not eating during the formatives.
Speaker 2 (45:34):
Yeah, it does make it.
Speaker 1 (45:35):
It's part of why Audrey Hepburn looks so unique.
Speaker 2 (45:38):
Actually didn't know well.
Speaker 3 (45:41):
Speaking of Audrey Hepburn and Hollywood Royalty, the next episode
that we're going to be doing for y'all is about
the mysterious case of the Missing Ruby Slippers, the Golden
age Hollywood relic made famous by the Wizard of Oz
and who knew well, Our buddy Jordan Runtogg knew that
there's a gangsters story involves some moths, some sort of
(46:02):
retired would be heisty mafioso's, and quite a few hilarious
misunderstandings that went on for quite a long time. We're
going to talk about that on the next episode of
Ridiculous History, but in the meantime, Ben, thanks for doing
all the research on this one.
Speaker 2 (46:18):
I know this is sort of a pet subject.
Speaker 3 (46:20):
For you, and I learned a whole lot that I
did not know about this very very interesting part of
the world, the Hermit Kingdom.
Speaker 1 (46:27):
Thanks so much for tuning in, everybody. There is a
panoply of excellent research on here. There are tons of
strange stories, some more true than others, about the Democratic
People's Republic of Korea. Please please please hit us up
if you want to know more, and please check out
our previous related episodes on stuff they don't want you
(46:51):
to know. We'll be back later this week with a
shoe centric episode, a little bit of a Ridiculous crime
hat we shall doff and you know, thanks to you
super producer, mister Max Williams. Thanks to your brother Alex
Williams who composed this bang in tract.
Speaker 3 (47:08):
Of course, Chris Frosciotis and Eve Jeff Coates here at Spira,
Jonathan Strickland The quizt Aj Mohammed Jacob's the Puzzler, and
again Ben, our research associate on this episode, you, sir,
thanks for hanging pleasure.
Speaker 1 (47:20):
And again thanks to Man. I'm still speaking of weirdly
specific reference works. I'm still in love with depraved and
insulting English. We don't have to do it again, but
everybody check out that book and Noel, so glad you're
back safe Man. I am excited about the show. I
know there are too many details we can divulge just yet,
(47:41):
but as they emerge, as we get closer, we can't
wait to tell you more about the show. So thanks
to you. Know.
Speaker 3 (47:48):
Yeah, Man, it's a real history mystery and it's got
a lot of interesting aspects around the Cold War, around
the kind of stuff that we're talking about today, and
it also has a true crime at the center of it.
But it's not kind of your average total bummer true
crime story.
Speaker 2 (48:04):
So thanks Ben.
Speaker 3 (48:04):
I will reveal info as it becomes available to share.
In the meantime, jeez, we'll see you next time.
Speaker 2 (48:11):
Folks.
Speaker 3 (48:19):
For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to
(00:27):
the show, fellow Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always so
much for tuning in. Uh, let's hear it for our
dear leader himself, mister Max Williams.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Is there any like good North Korean chants?
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Yeah? Yeah, yeah, Actually we'll play one in a second.
I'm bed bully that ish. Noel Brown returned from some journeys. Noel,
to the degree that you're comfortable, can you share with
our our fellow listeners, Uh, your your soujeans abroad?
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
I returned to my homeland, the fatherland, deutsch Land. I
wandered the black forests hunting for elk with my later
Hozen and my tiny bow and arrow. No, I don't
know about that. You know, it's crazy, man. I was
around Lake Constance, which is referred to in Germany as Bowden's,
(01:23):
a lovely little seaside kind of town, lakeside town. And
to get there, I went through Munich, and I actually
stayed in Munich the night before I flew out. In
that very day there was a bombing at Octoberfest, and
I just narrowly missed that. It was right down the
street from my hotel. Man, so no one is safe,
(01:46):
even the revelers at Octoberfest. You know, it's just man
not to start off with a bummer.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
But that that did.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
Kind of make me feel a little bit, you know,
hashtag blest, I guess, but.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
I mean, of course, I'm I'm so happy you're safe, bro.
I also, on a positive note, want to thank you
again in person on air for sending me a picture
of a dirigible. You actually inspired a conversation I had
on the Daily Zeitgeist recently, friends of the show all
(02:19):
about airships. It just made by day, so thank you.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
I didn't make it, but I didn't really know why.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
There were so many zeppelins everywhere, not just advertising, but
it just seemed like it was very much a feature
of the area. And in the little town that I
stayed near the lake called Meersburg, they have a zeppelin museum.
And I know you will give a wag a finger
at me for not making it, Man, but I couldn't
make it work. But next time. It's a lovely area,
(02:47):
by the way, if anyone ever is looking to see
what you know, And the most idyllic of German burghs
looks like I look no further than Meersburg or the
Lake Constance area.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
And no wagging the thing. I don't find that constructive,
but I do you know me well, I do love
a specific medium. And one of the weirdest ones I've
ever seen, dude, was on the border of the Korean
Peninsula on the thirty eighth parallel.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
If you by.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
I always trying to bring you little gifts when when
I'm traveling. Folks, if you ever have the chance to
visit the Korean Peninsula, do so. The food is amazing.
We're huge fans of Korean food on this show. The
(03:43):
people are lovely, the technology is fascinating, and the culture
is rich and astonishing. But one caveat, as we know
you're probably if you're from the United States especially, you
probably want to stick to the south side of the peninsula.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Yeah, I would think.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
So.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
It's not it's not exactly a tourist destination yet, but
you can't hang out in kind of the no.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
Man's land, which we're going to get to a little
bit later.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
And there's some very interesting, let's just call it lightly
if not heavily propagandistic attractions there.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
Right, Yeah, yeah, yeah, So for almost the century for
Nyon eighty years. The historical region of Korea, the peninsula
there in East Asia, has been split in twain. The
southern half is the Republic of Korea, which we in
the West just call Korea. The northern half, however, is
(04:38):
the Democratic People's Republic of Korea aka the Hermit Nation,
or to most folks again in the West, just North Korea.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
You know, I've always wondered why they call it the
Hermit Nation, but I guess it's just specifically referring to
like they don't get out much.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
No, no, it's it's illegal for them to do so.
Now yeah, now we asked, know you earlier asked at
the top for a sound que maybe a little bit
of ao audio cinema here. So what what about this?
Why don't we play just a brief clip of the
(05:15):
biggest party in town in North Korea over there in
their capital, yeong Yang. It's called the Mass Games. The
are a wrong mass games, And I'd love to play
this for you and hear your reactions. This is yeah, okay, cool,
This is for context. This is a mass exhibition of
(05:40):
children doing gymnastics. So you see that animation in the
back there, So cool. Yeah, that's all human made. By
(06:01):
the way those are. That's literally thousands of people, and
they have these color coded cards that they use to
create that image of a It looks like a kid
dreaming while they're holding a pencil leaning over a textbook.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
What do you think he's dreaming of Ben, He's dreaming happy.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
He's dreaming of the Eternal Leader.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
Okay, yeah, he's off screen.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
He's off screen for sure.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
Always.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
So as as as you know, well, noul Lo, these
many years, North Korea, the DPRK has mystified the rest
of the world because it is a very strange place.
We talked about this a little bit on our sister
show Stuff. They don't want you to know. Today's episode,
(06:52):
today's question. How did it come to be? Let I mean,
let's find out, because DPRK is kind of a new
kid on the block.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
Yeah, it's true.
Speaker 3 (07:02):
It is an ancient land Korea as a whole, But
the history of the DPRK is relatively recent, like you mentioned,
beginning at the close of World War Two. There in
nineteen forty five, when Japan went ahead and surrendered to
the Allies, the Korean Peninsula was split in twain down
the thirty eighth parallel between Earth's biggest modern frenemies, the USSR, China,
(07:30):
and the United States of America. With the Nazis on
the outs, or at least on their way to the outs,
the Soviets and the Americans were looking towards a new
goal of expanding their conflicting ideologies across the world. The
Soviets and communist China on the north side of the
parallel saw the new territory as both a buffer against
(07:52):
the encroaching Americans and an opportunity to demonstrate the massive
advantages of the great Communist Dream. Then that I was
in Germany as I'm working on a series that is
centered around the Cold War and the Berlin Wall and
a lot of trafficking of humans from the east side
of the wall, the Communist side, to the west side
(08:13):
of the wall.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
And it's a very similar split here in terms.
Speaker 3 (08:16):
Of like, the Communists got all that stuff on that
one side, and the Americans more or less were, you know,
in support of the stuff on the other side, and
never the twain shall meet, And all of these conflicts
that you might not think immediately would be an issue
became a total issue, which led to this shutting down
of the border less people on the Communist side, you know,
(08:38):
feel left out or something or like felt like I
feel as though there was stuff going on the other
side of the wall that did not include them. And
this isolationist mentality really took over to the point where,
very similarly to the divide between North and South Korea,
utterly illegal to travel from one side of the Berlin
Wall to the other on pain of death. And which
(09:01):
is why a lot of very crafty folks got into
the business, some for profit, some for the idea the
right things, ideological reasons of moving people across that divide.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
No, I was thinking of you recently as as I
was revisiting my old state department days with the with
the idea of this division, because history is a palimpsest, folks,
if you go to uh, if you go to Berlin now,
you can still see the legacy of the divide of
(09:35):
the wall. East Germany in particular tends to have lower
economic performance. A lot of the stats you would imagine
about demographics still carry with them the burden, the albatross
of that great divide. And look, when, as you were saying,
when the when the Allied forces and the communist forces
(09:59):
are diving up this peninsula. They know from the jump
this is an unsustainable situation. These two occupying they're not
really countries, these two occupying powers or gangs.
Speaker 3 (10:15):
Yeah, right, supporters, I guess I'm sort of like, these
are our guys and these are our guys.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
Yeah, very much a vassal state situation, these two places,
these two great powers, cannot agree on the best way
to reunify the peninsula. Korea has historically considered itself one thing,
one people, quite homogeneous, so by nineteen forty eight, as
(10:41):
a result of these disagreements and negotiations, the two great powers,
the communists and the capitalists, set up two separate governments.
And the pickle of it is the badger in the bag,
is that each of these governments on the same peninsula
claimed that they had of renedy over the entire area.
(11:02):
So stuff was real awkward from nineteen forty eight to
nineteen fifty when the conflict went hot and kinetic, what
we call the Korean War broke out, and it was
a beat me here, Max, please. It was a shit show.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
It was, and it had some interesting alternate names.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
I guess, depending on where you stood some of these
I was not aware of. I would tell us a
little bit about some of these and kind of what
the uh, I don't know a little the stank on
each of them might be.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
Yeah, it's kind of like.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
How in the US you call it the Vietnam War,
but in Vietnam it has a different name. In the
United States, you called this conflict in nineteen fifty to
nineteen fifty three, you call it the Korean War, sometimes
the Forgotten War, the DPRK. The North Korean government calls
(11:52):
it the Fatherland Liberation War because of their mind, you know,
it's the righteous, holy thing to do.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
There lies the stank, right.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
Everyone's putting their own little spin on it, depending on
which side of the divide you fall.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
Yeah, in South Korea and the ROK it's called the
six two five after the day it started. And China's
name for it, which I think is our mutual favorite,
is the War to resist US aggression and age Korea.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
The stankiest of them all.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
Yeah, they put some spin on it, for sure, But
the issue is we're talking about this war. In the past,
tense conflict raged back and forth. It looked for a
time to be anyone's game. This war has not ended.
As you are hearing this episode, we're recording it on Thursday,
October two, twenty twenty five, while the Korean War continues.
(12:48):
It's there's no official peace treaty. Neither side has surrendered
nor seems likely to. It's a temporary cease fire. So
these folks have been on time, came out for decades
and decades.
Speaker 3 (13:03):
Yeah, it's a cold war very much. So, yeah, I
mean it's it's there's so many parallels between this situation
and what happened there in Berlin and the idea of
a cold war being that sort of like technically were
on pause. But life goes on and tensions do tend
to simmer.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
Do you remember that? You know? I'm in love with
eighties and nineties sitcom themes, not the actual strangers, just
as the There's One, there.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
Was a goal to done were described the plot of
the damn exactly.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
Shout out to the nanny, right, uh, mister Belvigere, Yeah,
mister bell oh Man, first time I skipped Fresh Prince.
Of course, have fresh friends put some respect on the
name as much.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
The the one thing that I'm remembering immediately I rediscovered
a sleeper hit called Dear John.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
Did you ever hear John?
Speaker 1 (14:01):
I will send you the theme.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
The theme has been a massive sleeper hit like.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
Ozamandius. It was a big deal in its day. It's
all about a guy who has a acrimonious breakup with
his partner. She leaves him, and she leaves a letter,
a Dear John letter. And that letter is it's a
breakup letter. Yeah, okay, and it's a so it's uh.
(14:30):
The entire show is about this guy named in a
burst of creativity John and his buddies he meets in
therapy and the high jinks they get into.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
Got it So a bit of a sad sack kind
of kind of character.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
Sweet Little Ted lasso to it. But do check out
the theme song for Dear John. I'll send it to
you guys after this recording you fight on YouTube. The
Korean Warp is not from taxi. Yeah yeah. The Korean
Warp is also an acrimony stalemate. The thirty eighth Parallel
(15:02):
becomes the Demilitarized Zone. We call it the DMZ for short,
and it remains one of the most dangerous, fascinating areas
on the planet today. China also remains an official ally
of North Korea, so much so that when people try
to escape North Korea and make it to a third
(15:26):
party embassy in China, China will capture them. They don't
consider them political refugees, they consider them illegal economic migrants,
and they turn them back into North Korea.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
Yike. Sort of a bit of an understanding, I suppose.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
Yeah, yeah, really terrible one too, because horrific things happen
to defectors and their families if they're caught. So the West,
as you said, has been in a cold war with
North Korea, which ultimately, if you game it out, is
our proxy war with China since pretty much the end
of World War Two. And that's part of the reason
(16:06):
Uncle Sam and other countries don't just enter North Korea
and do some government overthrow, because if they did, the
rulers of China Uncle Ji would get very mad, very quickly.
Speaker 3 (16:21):
Well yeah, I mean, I know it's not This is
maybe not the venue to fully unpack all of this,
but I'm always confused with that, like steadfast support that
China gives to North Korea, much like some of the
steadfast support that we give to Israel. It's always just
(16:41):
confused me a little bit about what the motivations are
where that comes. I'm not trying to be hot button
here about it, but maybe you can see how I
would connect those relationships a little bit.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
I could see I could see the parallels in the
structure the mechanisms of those relationships, because in both cases
there's a mix of ideology, there's a mix of resource extraction.
And in the case of the Korean Peninsula in particular,
China is investing in a bulwark in a buffer zone. Right,
(17:13):
So North Korea, for China is kind of its own
bigger DMZ. It's looking at Uncle Sam and the bases
out there around Seoul and so on, the capital of
South Korea, and it's going give me five feet, give
me a distance.
Speaker 3 (17:30):
In the event of some sort of invasion or military assault.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
Yeah, especially given that North Korea is now technically a
nuclear power. North Korea was taking cues from the Soviets
when the whole operation began, and they said, we're going
to build a massive centralized economy like you were saying,
(17:54):
showing the power of the communist ideals, you know, they
issue capitalism, and they aimed to build a new paradise
on Earth, and they said it's going to be uniquely Korean,
and it's going to be thoroughly communist on paper, it's
not quite communist, Noel, because they found a leader, the
(18:15):
infamous war heroe Kim Il sung, and Kim Il Sung
quickly becomes more than a political figure. He's the centerpiece
of a new nationwide cult of personality. North Korea began
and continues to worship this man as a god. His
family has ruled the area ever ever since.
Speaker 3 (18:37):
And he was taking cues for sure from you know,
the hits Stalin and Mao, and in Kim Ilsong, those
two leaders of the USSR and China found the perfect
candidate to run their new country. Like you said, Ben
as something of a vassal state. This was pretty sharp
(18:57):
and also pretty insidious.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
Agreed, because here's what they're doing. They're finding a dictator
to push their values right and they want to hold
their space in the great monopoly game of geopolitics. But
they need him to appear to be homegrown, So they
need a Korean guy so they can say, hey, this
(19:22):
is an independent country that happens to agree with us.
But they were giving the orders, they were running the
place without officially occupying it, and Kim Ilsong is so fascinating.
He had various other titles over the decades. So he's
born in nineteen twelve, right, and he rules North Korea
(19:44):
from nineteen forty eight all the way up until he
passes away in nineteen ninety four. He was It was
similar to Vladimir Putin, where people just kept throwing different
titles and accolades upon them. His current posthumous title is
literally right now, the eternal Leader.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
In a burst of humility, as you'd like to say,
Ben in.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
A burst of humility, as we like to say. His
totalitarian regime is beyond domestic reproach. There were and are
no opposition parties. That's a thing that doesn't happen. There
are no civic minded independent groups. And for a little while,
this is the thing the Americans forget. For a little while, objectively,
(20:30):
they were doing well despite their extensive, aggressive violations of
anything slightly resembling human rights.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 3 (20:40):
In fact, by the sixties, North Korea had a higher
standard of living than the American aligned South Korea, which
was beset on all sides with economic and political turmoil.
And North Korea never forgave the US for its activities
during the Korean War, and a big part of their
(21:02):
ideology was decrying the Americans as belligerent imperialists. The North
Korean government has consistently demanded, so far without any particular success,
that the United States Uncle Sam remove itself from the
peninsula entirely, and they even seized an American vessel, the
USS Pueblo in nineteen sixty eight. However, by the seventies,
(21:25):
things started to take a bit of a turn.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
Yeah, this is where South Korea, the ROK recovers from
the chaos and the corruption. Well they never really recovered
from the corruption, but anyway, they start making a lot
of money. They get very involved in advantageous international trade.
At the same time, North Korea increasingly hermiting off. It
(21:51):
starts to falter and collapse as it is straying from
the usual Soviet communist ideology. The biggest distinction is that
Kim Il sung, the eternal leader, has this philosophy that
gets sold to the domestic population. It's called jeu cha.
(22:14):
Jeu Cha is I'm going to be diplomatic. According to
the official North Korean sources, jew Cha is the final
form of communism and it's focused on Korean nationalism, cultural preservation,
self reliance, and also I hate the Americans, I hate
(22:36):
the Japanese, and if you roll with them, screw you too.
Speaker 3 (22:41):
So it's not just the kind of communism that on paper,
you know, some folks are wont to say, Wow, that'd.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
Be great if it worked like that.
Speaker 3 (22:48):
But this is even its own kind of specialized, hyper
nationalized version of that.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
Yeah, in everything but name, it's a theocracy.
Speaker 3 (23:00):
Really.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
The Soviets were not particularly tickled with this development.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
But no, that's our thing. You can't take our thing
and just run with it.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
Well, they said, we gave you the thing, we franchised.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
You, now you're styling on it.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
We stopped putting new stuff on the menu, you know,
Like it's as though, for the capitalist version, it's like
if McDonald's found out that a store in Oklahoma or
Florida had just started making eros without permission, Like, what's
what's up with these eros?
Speaker 2 (23:35):
You guys?
Speaker 1 (23:36):
Still everybody shrugged, and they said, what are you going
to do? And they knew the great game was still afoot,
So they supported North Korea along with China, through funding,
through subsidies, through all kinds of Shenanigans all the way
up until the Soviet Union itself fell in nineteen ninety
one and the Berlin Wall started tumbling down, et cetera.
Speaker 3 (24:00):
One hundred percent. This was not a good thing for
North Korea. Without the support that they'd been receiving, their
economy got worse.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
This led to widespread.
Speaker 3 (24:12):
And absolutely horrific conditions, including famine throughout the land in
nineteen ninety four, when the eternal Leader passed away. It's
really important to remember that Kim not only outlived Mao
and Stalin, his buddies and sort of you know, ideological mentors,
but over his reign, six different South Korean presidents also
(24:34):
came and went, and ten American presidents came and went.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
Yeah, so this is a long time strong man, one
of the best to do it, actually, if you put
aside the ethics for a second. Also, just to clarify here, folks,
the Berlin Wall, the fall of it that we're referencing
occurs in November of nineteen eighty nine, So we're being
a little figurative, but that's one of the most parallels.
(25:00):
It's one of the most historically important death throws or
red flags of the Red flags. All right, we'll keep
it of the Soviet Union. Following in ninety one, scary
red flags.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
Yeah, no, kidd.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
So Kim Il sung passes away in nineteen ninety four,
the nation goes into an intense period of grief. Do
a no small part to the fact that there is
such horrific famine that cannibalism does exist. It does happen.
Survival cannibalism occurs. Kim Il Sung's son, Kim Jong Il,
(25:38):
shout out, whoop. Max is a big fan. That's what
we say about when he's not around. Kim za Yil
succeeded him, and then Kim jong Il rules with an
iron fist. He leads the charge on becoming a nuclear power.
He passes away. He is succeeded by Kim Il Sung's
(25:59):
grand son, the current ruler, Kim Jong un.
Speaker 3 (26:03):
Well, it's interesting because, I mean, you know, even though
this is technically a communist regime, as you may have gotten,
the sense of this is a dynasty.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
Yeah, it's a family business. It's communism for ninety five
percent of the country, right, and it's also a theocracy.
But if you're at the top, you know there's no
short it's no secret that the West has a lot
of propaganda aimed at North Korea. So your browser search
(26:34):
away from hearing all sorts of wild stories. We'll probably
get to some of these. It's weird. It's an absolute monarchy,
it's a theocracy, but it's.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
Secular, so that's right.
Speaker 3 (26:48):
It's technically an atheist state, right, And this cult of
personality is i mean, probably the best example of a
pure cult of personality. I literally just googled North Korean religion,
and the religion in North Korea is ju see yes, right,
it is you are meant to worship the leaders.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
Which is okay.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
I'm going to get in trouble for this, but you know,
pre podcast, this was a thing I had to learn
a lot about and jeu cha, might itself be kind
of a grift. I don't know if I'm going to
be able to get back in there after I say
this on air, but jeu cha, if you look at
Kim Elsung's actual writing, it basically just translates to the subject.
(27:35):
And then other people are using the big leaf of
communism to rationalize this worship of this one particular family,
and anybody who doesn't comply is going to be punished
with incarceration, losing job opportunities, sent off the forced labor
(27:57):
for life, they might be killed, not just them, but
their families as well. Unto the third generation, these folks
hold grudges.
Speaker 3 (28:06):
Oh yeah, absolutely, persona non grata all down the line.
So let's talk a little bit about that pure cult
of personality. The North Korean cultive personality that surrounds the
Kim family can be found in a lot of examples.
Ever witnessed been firsthand of North Korean culture. Now this
isn't directly acknowledged by the state, by the North Korean government,
(28:29):
but many defectors and visitors from western regions have witness
and report stiff penalties for anyone who would dare to
criticize or to not show proper deference or the current
or former leaders of the country.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
Yeah, anthropologically put, there is a disconnect between a lot
of other places in the world, And I mean there's
a there's a cultural chasm between what we would consider
proper respect and what the people of North Korea and
the government in North Korea would consider proper respect.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
Have you bowed deep enough?
Speaker 1 (29:12):
Did you take a picture at the wrong time, did
you say something and Australians get in trouble for this
all the time. Did you say something that you thought
was a funny joke and it was seen as disrespectful. Look,
the personality cult was definitely in play soon after Kimmelsung
took power in forty eight, But when he died in
(29:35):
nineteen ninety four, amid this famine, this economic collapse, they
turned the gas up so high on the personality cult,
on this Orwellian worship of things. That's partially due to
I mean, it's due to several factors, but the main
factor operationally is that they needed to convince these people
(29:59):
who are having horrible time. They needed to convince these
people that Kim Il sung is God and that therefore
his children are the right rulers. So the North Korean
government's official position is, yeah, we don't have a cult
of personality. We as a people just all agree this
(30:22):
is the best family. We just all organically do this,
not because of consequences, because we're right.
Speaker 3 (30:32):
And that's you know, that's not to say that there
aren't folks that live there who don't fully believe this
stuff with every you know, fiber of their being. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:43):
Yeah, and that's a great point because this is this
is descended from Confucianism, right, from the idea of a
of a hierarchy of family in a hierarchy of society
that is indisputable and immovable. And so this confusion is
has been weaponized. You have to adore the leaders. It
(31:03):
reminds me of you remember Stalin, right, yeah, that guy,
yeah from earlier.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
We sang now I'm really fun at parties.
Speaker 1 (31:12):
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He was a blast. Well, so,
as you mentioned previously, our buddy Kim took a lot
accues from the Mao Instalin personality quotes. And I always
remember the old story about people being terrified when they
watched speeches by Joseph Stalin. Nobody so people would start
(31:36):
clapping right, always a standing ovation, no matter what he says,
and people would clap for a very very long time
because everyone was afraid to be the first person to
stop clapping. You might look disloyal. It's a scary thing.
It's definitely in play in North Korea. Not cheering hard
(31:58):
enough it's a bad look. People might start to ask questions,
and asking questions or seeming disloyal pretty much anything can
land you in the camps and the camps are heinous.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (32:13):
Their human rights abuses have been widely reported, are well known,
proven and to your point, ben heinous. In two thousand
and nine, there is some satellite imagery that was unearthed
showing a lot about the way the Kyms lived, which
was pretty high on the hog, as well as the
(32:34):
terrifying subjugation of their people, the North Korean people. We
were able to see photographs showing details of Hua Soong
concentration Camp, which is generally referred to as Camp sixteen.
It's one of North Korea's most notorious prison camps. In
The Wall Street Journal reported that it is roughly three
(32:56):
hundred square miles containing around twenty thousand political prisoners, located
near a facility for testing nuclear weapons.
Speaker 1 (33:06):
Yeah, yeah, again, this is the gnarly stuff, and we
have to talk about it. We know the horrors of
these prisons, all right, and even knowing that the West
has a lot of silly anti North Korean propaganda, there
are real, actionable and substantive human rights abuses occurring over
(33:32):
there in the north of the Peninsula. We're talking not
just starvation and disease, but also infanticide, which is the
murder of children, especially in cases where you know, if
you go to the wrong camp, if you do something
the government finds egregious enough, then you are no longer
a person. You are not only in some cases you're
(33:53):
not even forced into manual labor. You're forced into purpose
fleet meaningless manual labor. And pregnant women due to that
three generation rule have been incarcerated and they lose the kids,
and they're increasing the use of surveillance and forced labor,
(34:14):
severe punishments. They're ratcheting it up to maintain total control
as things collapse. You can read about this, of course
and things like Human Rights Watch, but the recent United
Nations report is from like this year, showing how profoundly
this has escalated. You can get the death penalty for
(34:42):
anything considered an anti state activity. That includes drug use,
although meth amphetamines were huge for a while. What could
be seen as pornography, human trafficking because so many people
try to get out, distribution of unauthorized media thought crime basically, right,
don't go in there and start showing people, you know,
(35:07):
like an episode of Peacemaker, that's treasonous. And then economic
crimes like a free market. You grow some extra rice,
you got some wheat, you try to sell it to
make a little side hustle. That's also treason US. And
of course, you know, this would be the moment where
in many other countries someone would pop up on YouTube
(35:29):
or a late night talk show and they would say, Hey,
this is kind of weird and not normal, right, not
happening there. All media is controlled by the government.
Speaker 2 (35:40):
For sure.
Speaker 3 (35:41):
And you know, it's easy to be hyperbolic about a
lot of stuff that's going on in this country right
now and say we're descending into these types of conditions.
And while there's certainly some troubling indications that free speech
is being cracked down on, we have a long way
to go to get anywhere approaching what's been going going
on in this part of the world for a very
(36:02):
long time.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
Yeah, I agree with you. The US is far from perfect.
It's always been kind of a hold my beer experiment.
It's a very young country that swings above its weight class.
But it is a heck of a lot less stressful
to know you live in a place where, for now
you can say what you want without getting black bagged.
(36:23):
That was a nice one on behalf of the founding fathers,
So good on you, guys.
Speaker 3 (36:28):
It would seem that that is remaining a safeguard of
some degree. With the Kimel situation, there's certainly a lot
of saber rattling, and you know, this idea of pulling
him off the air and Sinclair and all that stuff
folding the line. But a lot of that stuff has
been reversed. And I'm not saying it's not a mega
slippery slope and it's not going to revert and possibly
(36:50):
even get worse than it already was. But it was
a little bit heartening, and we're being positive here to
see that that stuff didn't hold and that there is
some sense of the constitution.
Speaker 1 (37:02):
Now, folks, with all this information, we know what you're thinking.
Long time ridiculous historians. Surely all of us are saying, guys,
I love it. I can't wait to visit the good
ish news. You may be able to depend on where
you're from, as you know, Noelan Max. I've been over
(37:22):
to the border twice, both times, very surreal experience, beyond surreal.
It's one of the most heavily surveilled and militarized areas
of the world, right there on the borders of the
DMZ because that's the only part that's demilitarized, and it's
riddled with minds. The border is heavily patrolled. It's also
(37:45):
heavily monetized. There are tons of tourist trapped things, and
there's a lot of South Korean propaganda too. You buy merchants, swag,
historical artifacts. Oh oh wait, let me show you something,
hey guy, you'd love this. Yeah, you got what you
got know? This is wild blueberry wine from backdu Mountain.
Speaker 2 (38:09):
Is that in a box like chicken broth?
Speaker 1 (38:12):
It's uh, it is here, I could open it.
Speaker 2 (38:15):
Oh, I got it. It's a it's a packet.
Speaker 3 (38:17):
There's a bottle inside of it. Yeah, okay, I'm not
a very sypy looking wine, my friend. It looks something
like you pour on pekins. I feel like it's sketchy.
So I got it, and I'm never I mean even
in Oh that's a shell piece, my friends. No need
to sample it, just put it on a shelf.
Speaker 1 (38:32):
It's right up there with my Zamzam water, uh, which
is the holy water. So here's the thing. You can
get limited amounts of actual North Korean products like this
sketchy bottle of blueberry wine. However, depending on your nationality,
depending on how things are going in the world, entering
North Korea can be either impossible or fatally dangerous. And
(38:57):
I think it'd be cool for us to This is
a long quote, but I think it'd be cool for
us to round robin the warning that you see about
traveling to North Korea. It's directly from Wiki travel, which
is another fun website.
Speaker 2 (39:11):
I mean, first and foremost, you just yeah, got nobody
having your back essentially once there, I mean, yeah, let's
let's get let's just get you gotta They sum it
up beautifully.
Speaker 1 (39:22):
Let's take guys named Dennis Robmin the worm. They got
to call in the worm, all right.
Speaker 3 (39:28):
Many governments do not recommend to traveling to North Korea
due to the uncertain security situation caused by North Korea's
nuclear weapons development program and strict rules that are aggressively
enforced in the country.
Speaker 2 (39:41):
It continues.
Speaker 1 (39:42):
There are no US and Canadian diplomatic offices in the DPRK.
The ability of officials to provide consular assistance is extremely limited.
Speaker 3 (39:53):
Yeah, the Swedes have an office, but like, good luck
getting help from them. They're your only recourse. Sorry to editorial.
The ability of officials to provide consular assistance is extremely limited. Sweden,
through its embassy in Pyongyang, is the protecting power for Canadian,
American and Australian nationals if any emergency consular assistance is required.
(40:15):
How come Sweden gets one?
Speaker 1 (40:17):
Sweden goes everywhere. Man, they're just so friendly. Yeah, it continues.
Such assistance will likely be very limited due to the
unpredictability of the actions of the DPRK government and the leader.
If you engage in activities that insult or disparage the government,
(40:37):
you will face imprisonment, torture, beating, disappearances, and forced labor
for life until death, starvation and execution. Sorry, talk about
a list of like side effects. Right.
Speaker 2 (40:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (40:53):
So a lot of would be tourists kind of quibble
about the ethical implications of going in the first place, right, like,
if you go, are you not supporting this totalitarian and
brutally unethical but pretty much any standard reshime exactly.
Speaker 1 (41:13):
Yeah, that's the thing. It is true because if you visit,
no matter where you're from, if you visit, people are
usually going to fly in from some Chinese airlines. You
have to be pre registered with a state run tour operator.
They control everything the site visits, the restaurants, photography, conversations,
(41:33):
and these tour guides by the way, just so we know,
these two tour guides, like most North Korean people, are
super cool. They're just scared. They don't want to die,
they don't want their family torture, so they're doing their best.
And your hotel is going to be in Pyeongyang in
the capitol. Your hotel room is going to be bugged.
(41:55):
Don't touch anything that you don't have to touch because
the government does not who you are. It will arrest
you if they want for anything at your home. Government,
as we said, realistically, will not be able to do
much about it. You got to call in the worm,
you know. I mean, there's more to explore, and we
have to mention. We're ethically bound to mention the harrowing
(42:19):
atrocities occurring in North Korea, but we also you know,
I'm working on being more positive. It's tough, but.
Speaker 2 (42:26):
Same dude, It is tough, but yeah, we do the
best we can.
Speaker 1 (42:28):
Especially after that stuff film episode.
Speaker 2 (42:31):
That was a rough one.
Speaker 3 (42:32):
Do check that out if you want to get real
dark and non ridiculous over on stuff.
Speaker 2 (42:36):
They don't want you to know.
Speaker 3 (42:38):
And also I would recommend It's been a while since
I've seen it, but it was my first exposure to
a lot of this stuff. And this is a director
who's been kind of really having a moment lately, Wook
Chan Park or Chan Wook Park. One of his very
first films is called JSA, which stands for a Joint
Security Area and it is a political thriller that surrounds all.
Speaker 2 (43:00):
The stuff we're talking about here today.
Speaker 3 (43:02):
And it's not my favorite. It's a little dry and
a little procedural, but you can see the fingerprints of
someone that would go on to make masterpieces like Old
Boy and you know, the Sympathy series. And I believe
he's got a new one coming out soon that's supposed
to be a real contender that I don't know the
details about it.
Speaker 2 (43:20):
That's like you know, awards and such.
Speaker 1 (43:22):
That's a nice reference. And I did enjoy enjoys not
the right word. I was mystified by the little blue
building that you can hang out at. It's also where
they where they show videos and stuff.
Speaker 3 (43:35):
Right, didn't you say there's like constant on all the
kind of welcome videos, but there is like eagles and stuff.
Speaker 2 (43:40):
What you have to watch.
Speaker 1 (43:41):
You have to watch a thing about how great the
DMZ is for birds and natural wildlife on the South
Korean side. Yeah, North Korea is also home to one
of the world's most fascinating festivals. What we were playing earlier,
Ara Rang are a wrong as well as the DMZ.
Maybe that that's where we end because beauty can emerge
(44:02):
from horror. The DMZ dude similar to Chernobyl. It's a
textbook example of how the natural world can flourish when
the humans are removed from the equation.
Speaker 2 (44:14):
Yeah, it is quite the wildlife paradise. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (44:18):
Our favorite thing probably well, I don't want to speak
for you guys, but one of my favorite things is
of the more than five thousand animal and plant species
identified in the area, including more than one hundred that
are endangered in other parts of the world.
Speaker 2 (44:36):
There are rumors.
Speaker 1 (44:38):
Even to this day that the Amur leopard and the
Siberian tiger may roam the DMZ. Cool.
Speaker 2 (44:47):
That's cool. I likes cool.
Speaker 3 (44:49):
When you said it like that that I was picturing
you were going to like an encryptid direction, It's like, right,
uh huh, these are you know that level of rare?
Speaker 1 (44:58):
Yes, Yeah, one hundred percent. There Again, there's so much
other stuff we can get to. We do want to
point out again what we're saying about history being a
palimpsest within her generational consequences. Not just in East Berlin,
but if you look at this peninsula, you'll see that,
on average, due to malnutrition, North Korean citizens are going
(45:21):
to be one to three inches shorter than South Korean citizens.
Speaker 2 (45:26):
Da, I didn't know malnutrition made you shorter. I just
thought it made you skinnier.
Speaker 1 (45:30):
If you're not eating during the formatives.
Speaker 2 (45:34):
Yeah, it does make it.
Speaker 1 (45:35):
It's part of why Audrey Hepburn looks so unique.
Speaker 2 (45:38):
Actually didn't know well.
Speaker 3 (45:41):
Speaking of Audrey Hepburn and Hollywood Royalty, the next episode
that we're going to be doing for y'all is about
the mysterious case of the Missing Ruby Slippers, the Golden
age Hollywood relic made famous by the Wizard of Oz
and who knew well, Our buddy Jordan Runtogg knew that
there's a gangsters story involves some moths, some sort of
(46:02):
retired would be heisty mafioso's, and quite a few hilarious
misunderstandings that went on for quite a long time. We're
going to talk about that on the next episode of
Ridiculous History, but in the meantime, Ben, thanks for doing
all the research on this one.
Speaker 2 (46:18):
I know this is sort of a pet subject.
Speaker 3 (46:20):
For you, and I learned a whole lot that I
did not know about this very very interesting part of
the world, the Hermit Kingdom.
Speaker 1 (46:27):
Thanks so much for tuning in, everybody. There is a
panoply of excellent research on here. There are tons of
strange stories, some more true than others, about the Democratic
People's Republic of Korea. Please please please hit us up
if you want to know more, and please check out
our previous related episodes on stuff they don't want you
(46:51):
to know. We'll be back later this week with a
shoe centric episode, a little bit of a Ridiculous crime
hat we shall doff and you know, thanks to you
super producer, mister Max Williams. Thanks to your brother Alex
Williams who composed this bang in tract.
Speaker 3 (47:08):
Of course, Chris Frosciotis and Eve Jeff Coates here at Spira,
Jonathan Strickland The quizt Aj Mohammed Jacob's the Puzzler, and
again Ben, our research associate on this episode, you, sir,
thanks for hanging pleasure.
Speaker 1 (47:20):
And again thanks to Man. I'm still speaking of weirdly
specific reference works. I'm still in love with depraved and
insulting English. We don't have to do it again, but
everybody check out that book and Noel, so glad you're
back safe Man. I am excited about the show. I
know there are too many details we can divulge just yet,
(47:41):
but as they emerge, as we get closer, we can't
wait to tell you more about the show. So thanks
to you. Know.
Speaker 3 (47:48):
Yeah, Man, it's a real history mystery and it's got
a lot of interesting aspects around the Cold War, around
the kind of stuff that we're talking about today, and
it also has a true crime at the center of it.
But it's not kind of your average total bummer true
crime story.
Speaker 2 (48:04):
So thanks Ben.
Speaker 3 (48:04):
I will reveal info as it becomes available to share.
In the meantime, jeez, we'll see you next time.
Speaker 2 (48:11):
Folks.
Speaker 3 (48:19):
For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Ridiculous History News
Hosts And Creators
Ben Bowlin
Noel Brown
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