November 16, 2010 • 35 mins
People from different cultures often interpret gestures and etiquette differently, and this can lead to serious misunderstandings. So how should humans interact with extraterrestrials? Tune in as Julie and Robert explore the nuances of alien etiquette.
Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind from how Stuff
Works dot com. Hey, welcome to the podcast. This is
Robert lamb Um Julie Douglas. Tell me, Julie, have you
ever been stuck on an elevator and find yourself in
a situation where you feel like you have to make
smallpop with another person, a stranger. Yeah, it's kind of tough.
(00:25):
I mean usually sort of look around and for some
reason or another, weather is pretty reliable as a topic. Yeah,
it's instantly relatable. Everybody has to deal with it, and uh,
opinions are not going to vary too much, you know, right, Yeah,
that's it's not a lightning rod subject usually, and unless
there's a right lightning rods are the subject, I guess. Yeah,
then then that's an entirely different elevator you're in, and
(00:49):
it's a pithy subject. You don't just spend a lot
of time on it. Yeah. So yeah, so it's in's
instantly relatable. But then you know it's they're all these
cultural things too. Just you know, you're talking to somebody
that you have no idea where they're coming from. On
um on saye like hand gestures um like uh I
believe it was Amanda Arnold, how Stuff Works editor who
(01:10):
blogs for Cool Stuff on the Planet. She did this
really cool blog entry about how like different hand signals,
how they mean vastly different things, you know, depending on
where you are in the world. Like, you know, thumbs
up is great here some you know, other places you'll
get you know attacked for that, um, you know, making
a little like wolf sign with your hands, like over here,
(01:30):
that means you're like rocking out or you know, or
enjoying heavy metal. Other places it's you're saying something like
really bad about somebody's mother, right, showing the bottom of
your foot too, right, you can pass your legs, yeah
like that actually, um yeah, that's like Thailand. That's a
huge thing there. And when my wife and I visited there,
like that was something that's like we're just really on
edge the whole time, Like, oh my goodness, you know,
(01:52):
make sure I do not gesture with my feet when
I sit down, you know, make sure I don't you know,
cross my legs so that I'm pointing the bottom of
my foot at somebody. And even in the airport, like
leaving um and flying on the Thailand air Uh. They
they had like a separate container to for your shoes
to be x rayed in then separate from the rest
(02:14):
of your stuff, because the idea of putting your shoes
in with your pocket things is just, you know, not acceptable,
It's insane. Yeah. So it's like I'm I'm kind of
kind of like washed off on me, and I still
find myself like I'll be in a meeting like here
at work, and I'll be like, oh, my goodness, did
I just point the bottom of my foot at my boss?
What am I thinking? You know? And then I have
to remind myself he doesn't care because he's not tie right.
(02:37):
But Yeah, So I think what that kind of makes
me think of is how difficult it is to actually
communicate with one another. Yeah, and that's just on this planet.
So when we start talking about the possibility of speaking
with other worlds and you know, other you know, interstellar civilizations, uh,
it just gets entirely more complicated, right, because I mean,
(02:59):
how we how would you even know what the cultural
norms are of another civilization? Yeah? Or what what do
you have in common with something that lives, you know,
on the other side of the galaxy and evolved, you know,
in completely different situations, which leads us to our subject today,
which is all right, if we do actually engage in
(03:19):
conversation with these beings. Yeah, what's the adequate yea, what
do we do? How do we behave? What do we
talk about? How do we talk about it? Yeah? Who's
regulating this anyway? Yeah? Yeah, it turns out a lot
of people are giving it some serious thought. Yeah, and
it's really it's been in the news lately for a
couple of reasons. One I think it's because there were
some ex military personnel who signed an affic David that
(03:44):
basically said, hey, we saw some UFOs hovering of our
military silences. Um, you know, we've got to put that
out in the open. And then there was what has
turned out to be a false rumor that Malaysian asked
your physicist Maslin Offman was to become the UN spokesperson
for Earth just in case aliens engaged us. So it's
(04:07):
like the aliens, you know, contact us, and it's it's
the middle of the night in Malaysia. Then people are like,
whoa hold on, give us, give us thirty minutes. We
have to go wake somebody up. Yeah, and they're like, hey, Offman,
you're on you're on deck, right, and so that again
that turns out to be false. But definitely aliens are
on the mind. And in fact, there's a booking company
(04:28):
that places bets that actually has a hundred to one odds.
They're offering this that either the U S President or
the serving British Prime Minister will announce existence of e
t s within a year of the bet being placed.
I wonder if you can place bets on whether it
will be announced like during elections, you know, or in
(04:50):
the lead up to elections, Like how would that like? What?
What are what works? Like? If you're if you want
to be re elected, do you you tell everybody they're aliens?
Or do you you set on it right right? I
don't know. We need to talk to some bookies about this,
all the different factors that contribute to the odds, but
in any case, it's definitely on our minds. And there
are a couple of reasons for that. I mean, beyond
(05:12):
the fact that it's been in the news. One of that.
One of the reasons is because of the Setti Institute. Yeah,
and these folks they make it their job to search
for extraterrestrial intelligence. That's what they do day in, day
out satellites. UM. There list basically cosmic eavesdroppers, if you will,
(05:32):
searching for some sort of signal that our little green
friends are out there, and they're really pondering in a
really significant way, what would happen if they were out there?
What if we did establish contact? Yeah, and a lot
of this UM. One of the key ingredients in in
in their belief and a lot of people believe that
(05:54):
there there is intelligent life out there somewhere is the
Drake equation, which is if if you look at the
entire equation, it's like the one that looks like inn
equals are with a little star by it. Uh, you know,
fd N E f L f I, f c L
and these all stand for different things like in equals
the number of communicative civilizations are equals the rate of
(06:17):
formation of suitable stars FP is the fraction of those
stars with planets. Uh. Then you know it breaks down
along lines of like the you know, number of Earth
like world per planetary system, the fraction of those planets
that where life actually develops, the fraction of life sites
where intelligence develops, um, you know, and and uh and
contendering like communication issues as well, So it's we we
(06:40):
don't really we can't always say definitively what the value
would be for each of these letters, but we can
we can sort of make we can make educated guesses.
So we make educated guesses, and then when we plug up,
plug all those numbers into the equation, we get a
sort of a rough, very rough, you know, estimate of
how many intelligent civilizations there might be. And based on
(07:01):
Drake's um own current solution to his own equation, the
Drake equation, uh, he thinks there would be ten thousand, uh,
communitive civilizations in the Milky Way, right, And again this
is kind of this is rough science. So there are
a lot of different parts of this equation that criticism. Yeah,
people will put in different numbers and say, actually it's
not ten thousand, it's more like one. Yeah. Yeah, So
(07:26):
it varies tremendously, but it's a it's something that gives
people a lot of Um. I don't know if hope
is really the word, because I mean, I think there's
a lot of concern and know a little fear about
the possibility there being something out there, But a lot
of people, you know, continue to work, you know far
you know it's set because they believe there's a really
good chance that it's there. And if it's there, we
need to know about it. Line up, you know, protocol, right.
(07:50):
And I think the fact too that astronomers have discovered
that there are three planets beyond our Solar system. There's
the idea that one of them could be an earthlike
planet in their for could produce life forms. So, given
given everything that's been in the news, the fact that
study is is making this grand exploration into the question
of extraterrestrial life, the Drake equation, I think what what
(08:14):
it's all pointing to is, Okay, it could It could
happen in two years, it could happen in forty years.
We're not quite certain. We've got some math and science
to bear out different results. But what if it did
happen tomorrow? Yeah, what would we do? Would it just
be it would be in a situation where would just
be chaos? Would it just you know, be everybody with
(08:35):
a radio station and TV going on and pretending to
be the spokesman for humanity, right, introducing themselves with the
President of the United States or president of the Ukraine.
I don't know people using it as a you know,
an excuse to appeal to voters or to slam that,
you know, candidates. You know, the sky's the limit, you know,
So you end up having to have some sort of
(08:55):
protocol in place, you know, some sort of maybe a
decision making body, but at least a body that can
you know, direct policy and let a thought into how
can you effectively communicate given that, as you said before
at the top of the podcast, that it's hard enough
for us to communicate with one another, let alone some
(09:18):
sort of being out there. Yeah, because like in the elevator,
the message is pretty simple. It's hey guy, Um, I'm
a normal dude too. The fact that we're talking to
each other and in this owner and stuck in this
elevator together, it's not weird at all, right, right, that
we're sealed up right now, You're right, and that that
is really if you're reading between the lines, that's saying.
You're saying I won't threaten you, You won't threaten me either, right. Um, Yes,
(09:42):
the weather is great outside. So what what have we
actively been telling aliens or think that we've been telling them? Well,
it's I like to kind of think of it in
terms of Facebook. Um, not because Facebook is constantly on
my mind, though I do have to use it for work,
so I guess it is. But but like in Facebook,
(10:03):
you have like your profile right everything you know, profiles
out there, and certain aspects, certain corners of that profile,
depending on how you have your setting, may be locked
so that if there if someone's not your friend on Facebook,
they can't see everything about you. Maybe they can only
see your picture and some you know, basic stats and
you have no idea who's looking at it. You know,
it could be people from high school that you don't
(10:24):
want to have contact with. It could be crazy people
in other countries, um, you know, aliens surfing the Internet.
And that's the thing. We have a lot of information
out there that's just sort of leaked away from the
planet and is you know, conceivably available, such as TV
and radio signals. So that's what from the last fifty
years we've been we've had some leakage, so to speak.
(10:46):
And it's you know, there are actually some really cool
charts online that show like just how far they've spread
into what, you know, what stars, these different you know
shows have reached. You know, there are portions of the
of the Milky Way that are you know, geting um,
you know, they're getting the untouchables, or they're getting Gilgigins Island.
You know, they're getting you know, Buck Rogers there. It's
just you know, it's like cultural leakage, you know, through
(11:09):
television and just sort of expanding outward. So if some
being were cosmic doing some cosmic eavesdropping, that being would say, wow,
this these people are kind of nuts. Maybe they've gone
through a lot of strife, They've created a lot of strife,
They've had moments of grace, and they have Jersey Shore. Yeah. Yeah,
(11:29):
So it's like what kind of message you're sending. It's like,
especially they choose to like focus just on say the
Second World War and Jersey Shore. You know, right, you
know they could you could. It's it's pretty I mean,
I hate to be too pessimistic, but if you had
to compile an argument for the eradication of Earth just
you know, based on television programming, you could probably make
(11:49):
a pretty strong argument. You know, but you're right, it's
it's a bleak thought. But yeah, and then and then
there's all like if Heaven forbid aliens get a hold
of our Internet. I mean, it's there's just so much
stuff out there. You know. It's like our we we
put like so much of our our culture and our
global civilization into television, into the Internet and into these things,
(12:13):
and it's not necessarily the best um argument for who
we are or not the argument we want to put
forth to other planets. Would would be like if you
had your complete Facebook all the way open to everybody
in the world, you know, and like, you know, potential
employer logs on and they're like, oh, you know, he's
really a fan of you know, these films that are
(12:34):
kind of weird or oh that. You know, it's like
his profile pictures is Halloween costume and he looks like
somebody I don't want to employ, you know. It's you know,
it's that it's that kind of thing. We have a
lot of stuff that we don't necessarily want to put
out there for public you know, consumption in the universe. Yeah,
So where to begin? I mean, we're going to describe ourselves.
What's the best way to do? I mean, I mean,
we're we're pretty complex, multi multifaceted human beings. Um. It
(12:59):
makes me think of one of the first things to
go out there in a in a very um an
actually organized way, which is the Pioneer plaque, Yes, nineteen
seventy two. Uh, this was a plaque that was adhered
to Pioneers eleven and twelve the spacecraft, and it had
(13:22):
an image on or has an image floating around right
now of a woman, a man, the Solar System, the sun,
essentially a side section of the spacecraft. A couple other
things on there. Yeah, there's um maybe like a hydrogen
(13:43):
hydrogen molecule, molecule diagram. Um, there's a they also have
on the map of the Solar System that shows the
directory of the craft to show where it came from,
where it's going, and uh, and some other stuff too
to judge, like is there's some stuff in there about
the frequencies of pulsar um. They'll enable other civilizations to
potentially determine the time that has lapsed since the Pioneer
(14:06):
was launched, you know, things of that nature, and you know,
and just to sort of show that like, hey, these
are the this is the ship. You know, these are
the creatures that made the ship, and this is a
general idea of their you know, scientific proficiency, right and
sort of like where it's sort of like where we
are in the world, um you know, I mean the
solar system, where earths in the solar system, the side
(14:29):
section of the aircraft as it relates to the dimensions
of a human being as well, So trying to get
some sort of scope on that. But what I think
is really interesting about this is if an alien were
to intercept this, I still think it would be a
little bit baffling. Yeah, because who's to you know, we
we bring a little uh anthropomorphic chauvinism to just about anything.
(14:55):
So you know what if you know, you look at
these these these people, I mean, we look at and
we know it's an the very at least we you know,
you know it's an animal, and you know, and we
know it's a human. But that, you know, that doesn't
mean another you know, civilization, you know, another alien species
would be able to look at that and figure out
what it was, you know, I mean like is it
a living thing? Is it sculpture? Is it you know,
(15:15):
is it a rock formation? You know? Is it just lines?
I mean, like you think of things like um like
like just human you know, neurological things like face blindness
and the like, you know, things that that prohibit the
mind from understanding, um, a form something out of context.
So yeah, they could look at it and see nothing
(15:36):
they I mean, maybe they could tell at the very
least that it is not a natural, you know, composition.
But who's to say they could decide for anything beyond that, right,
And it might even look like a cave drawing to them,
you know, so so primitive that they have to stare
at it for a very long time. Say whoa, wait,
hold on, I think this is some sort of object
that it was useful to them. But I think what
(15:57):
I want to look at the drawing a little closer,
because I think it more than saying anything to aliens,
I think it says a lot to us as as
a culture. Um. And if you look at the drawing,
you've got the male and the female and they're both nude.
And by the way, this caused some controversy when it
first came out. Oh yeah, there was. I have to
(16:18):
read this. I got this out of UH one of
Sagan's books. This is a copy of a letter that
went into Los Angeles Times, UH and the times it published,
you know, a picture of that image on the front
of the newspaper, and this this person wrote in and said,
I must say I was shocked by the blatant display
of both male and female sex organs on the front
(16:39):
page of the Times. Surely this type of sexual exploitation
is below the standards of our community. That below the
standards our community has come to expect from the Times.
Isn't it enough that we must tolerate the bombardment of
pornography through the media of film and smut magazines. Isn't
it bad enough that our own space agency officials have
found it necessary to spread this filth even beyond our
(17:02):
own solar system. It's kind of awesome you think about,
especially in the context of this image. Is really actually
puritanical looking at it now, But at the time, yeah,
it was interstellar pornography. They thought that, some people thought.
And you have, um, the male who is he's signifying
(17:22):
a sort of good will chester with his hand up.
He looks very awkward. I think he does like I do.
You think it just drives home just how ridiculous masculine
nudity is anyway, saying he looks really uncomfortable, he really
wishes he had his clothes on, I think. And then
you have the female standing next to him, and the
weird thing about her is that because she's not signifying
(17:45):
at all. She's not waving, so that's saying something right there. Yeah,
like she's going to be an antisocial Yeah yeah, it's like,
how okay? And this is this is the female. She
doesn't speak, and the other thing is right right, I
am the master of the universe, I think, is what
maybe that's saying. And the female is shifted slightly to
one hip, so one of her legs is um sort
(18:07):
of like at a forty five degreeing. I don't know
how you would describe that, and she it looks a
little suggestive. And if I were an alien and I
could start to kind of pick up on some of
the nuances here, I might think that she would be
open to dinner and drinks later. Well, but a part
of that is that she does look more natural and
(18:27):
that the guy just looks like just very stuff. You know,
she does she does. She actually looks like she's she's
used to being naked a lot. And it's the seventies
right when this is being drawn, so it's very possible
that this is modeled after someone. Well. Another interesting you know,
aspect of that, speaking of her nudity in particular, is
(18:47):
a NaSTA official censor this image before you go out.
It was originally uh and this is this according to
like to say, you know a lot of people like
it's been discussed enough that it's just not Nobody Nasty
even denies it that they they decided to edit her
a little bit so that she's not completely anatomically correct,
Like she's more Barbie Doll than you know, smut magazine
(19:10):
rights the language of the La Times, right, I mean,
to be specific, the line that would define the Volvo's
this's correct was e racist. Yeah, and I mean with
the male it's it's still very simple, but it's obviously
you know, there's some frank and beans or something going.
I mean, you know, it's like I can imagine like
aliens look in this and be like, well, where does
(19:30):
that even go? How does this work? I don't, Yeah,
I don't. I don't get this. Really, these are two
different a sexual species, right, they lay eggs in the
water and then yeah, I wouldn't be able to get
a lick of sense out of this. I think I
was an alien. But it is fascinating because it really
is kind of spelling out who we who we think
we are. Um at least in nineteen seventy two. And
(19:53):
the other thing I was thinking about is, Okay, so
the plaque we know is going to exist well beyond
our lifetimes, So I don't know, forty years from now,
someone can intercept this, So we as a as a
race might look very different or evolve into a very
different type of being than what's represented in nineteen seventy two. Yeah,
(20:18):
not to mention, um, you know how much like I mean,
just you know, this is just that this is the
human body, and it's like you know, un costumed form,
you know, and when you talk about like the you know,
the future revolution of humans and how like wearable computer
technology factors into it, I mean, it's this may not
really be a complete picture of you know, even if
(20:39):
if biologically we don't evolve all that much, will this
be a good you know, image of what human society is? Um?
You know, you know this that that far into the future,
like right, so because we'll have certain as presumably you
will have certain uh types of equipment attached to our
it's at least we think this right now. And if
(21:00):
we indeed, if technology ends up, if we end up
having more of almost a symbiotic relationship with our technology,
you know, factoring in things like the idea of a
technological singularity where computers you know exceed you know, human capacity,
and and you know, maybe we end up with something
kind of like in the the n and Bank Banks
culture novels, where you have like computers are kind of
(21:20):
like looking after people and taking care of all the
the real serious stuff, while humans have kind of, um uh,
you know, this kind of you know, free society where
they kind of do what they want, don't have to
worry about, you know, any kind of serious situations. Like
maybe in that respect, it's it makes sense that voyagers
there in the background, and maybe they'll say, hey, there's
the computerized machine that's that's actually does everything, and they
(21:42):
are these are the naked people that just kind of
do what they want. There's their gut in the background, right, Um,
but that's that's what I think is just this is
very interesting. It's a little time capsule of that shot
out there, but it's not the only one, right. Yeah,
we follow this up with the voyager missions and we
in a little we're a little more robust with this
this mission. My understanding of sagan Um I wanted to
(22:06):
actually include like more like naked like photographs, you know,
I mean, you know, nothing like you know, something very yeah, clinical,
you know, just to show exactly this is the this
is the human organism. And that was that was you know,
completely censored, and I think they went with a silhouette instead.
But we also included the Golden Records. Yeah, and the
Golden Records, in which, uh they're like what hundred sixteen
(22:28):
images on this record? There are greetings and fifty nine languages.
There's uh, bits of ephemera, so to speak, a sound
of a kiss, wind and thunder birds, whales, other animals,
fifty five languages, um printed messages from President Carter. I
(22:51):
don't know, I don't know why I'm laughing about that.
He's a wonderful man. But yes, for I guess it's
just the quality of oh well, it's nineteen seventy seven. Again,
here's this representation of life specifically in this one year,
in this universe, which is kind of funny. And we
included I think some classical music, yeah, yeah, and I
mean and it is definitely a fuller representation of the
(23:12):
human experience in n rather than this sort of crude
line drawing um from the pioneer plaque. But I think
what's interesting about it too is that um and actually
this was a piece on NPR that they did. They
talked about how Carl second and and drew in his
second wife, how that that period in time that UM,
(23:36):
that Golden Record is, in a weird way, sort of
an example of their versioning relationship and when they were
falling in love. And I thought it was interesting is
that they also recorded the electrical impulses of Anne's brain
and her nervous system, turning them into sound. And then
the hope was that maybe in a one million years
(23:59):
or one thousand million years actually, um, some alien civilization
might be able to turn that data back into thoughts.
And at the time when she when they were recording that,
she actually meditated, and she was meditating on the awe
of love and being in love. So, I mean, it's
such a romantic scientific thing. You gotta love it. It is,
(24:23):
I mean, and it's a great story of scientists and love.
It's just yeah, it's it's well if you haven't heard it,
it's well worth looking up. Yeah. Absolutely, But yeah, here's
here's another piece of um or pieces of data that
we've thrown or we've flung into space trying to explain
who we are. Yeah, it's interesting to include like the
music in the art because I was reading some stuff
(24:45):
from Paul Davies, be cosmologist, who's um really awesome guy.
I got to interview it for a Discovery News article
earlier this year and just you know, just very just
brilliant dude, very relatable though, and can just break down
these topics with these but he pointed out that like
art in music are are, they're very tied to our
cognitive architecture. Like in one sense, like music is like
(25:10):
a great example of who we are, but it's something
that an alien species could easily have no frame of
reference and just totally not appreciate on any level. You know, right,
it might be some kind of weird squawking thing that
we Yeah. Yeah, so in in a way it's like
it's the perfect example of who we are, but there's
a very good chance nobody could read it. Which is
interesting because um in in talking about how we could
(25:34):
communicate with aliens, and this is this is what study
has really been queuing itself up to do or actually
to think about. Music has has come up as one
of the ways that might be a language that we
could share. Yeah, and um, And what I'm thinking about
too is that that there was a workshop that the
(25:55):
Study Institute had in Paris in two thousand and two,
and the invited people from all the disciplines and they
got them in a room and said, let's really start
thinking in a very serious way about how we can
communicate with aliens effectively and what sort of modes we
can do that in. How can you now? No, this
(26:16):
was an actual workshop, but the college credit came later
because I can just imagine like a lot of jocks
signing up for that one thing and it's gonna be
an easy course. Yeah, they're gonna be like, we just say, hey,
not to stereotype jocks, because you wouldn't say that. Then
maybe you never know, there could be scientists out there
and we salute you. Prove me wrong. But there was.
(26:39):
There was actually a college credit that you could get
at the University of Wyoming in two thousand and eight,
and it was a program sponsored by NASA and the UH.
The name of it is called Interstellar Message Composition. They
have eleven students. The students were asked ponder how aliens
(27:01):
might communicate, whether they'd be able to translate human language,
and if they'd be able to see or hear them.
So those were just some thoughts to get them going
thinking outside the terrestrial box. Yeah, yeah, this is this
is their um, their college think tank, I suppose. So,
I mean, if you look at what studies doing is
actually pretty interesting, is that they are picking the brains
(27:22):
of everyone they can about about this problem of communication,
how do we do it and how do we do
it effectively? And one of the communications that came out
of it was from a student who wrote a poem
about menstruation with syllables arranged in the fibonacci sequence. A
poem about menstruation. Yes, now you know women, do you
(27:45):
represent populations? So, I mean that might be an interesting
tidbit too share with the aliens, though out of context,
I don't know that. Um, it seems like I don't know.
I'm just thinking, like when I meet people, like the
first ing out of there, like I feel like I
have met people before for the first thing they say
does relate demonstration, and it it kind of makes the
(28:07):
rest of the conversation a little awkward for me. Well,
so if this is a perfect point that the actually Um,
people have been making about what we're going to say
to aliens, like do we do you just you know,
do you lock down sort of uh like Facebook style
some parts of your personal profile so that you don't
(28:27):
scare people off. Me, You don't necessarily if you meet
your neighbors, say hey, I'm so and so in about
an hour, I'm going to be completely ripped and like,
you know, naked in my backyard. I mean, these are
not things that you normally say to someone if you're
that person who does that. Um. But now, Douglas vatch Off,
(28:49):
back off, excuse me, completely wrong. Douglas Vakoch, who is
studies interstellar communication guru, basically says, you know what, we
should be trying parent about who we are. UM, not
necessarily being talking about minstruation or um binge drinking, but
being more transparent about who we are as a human race. UM,
(29:12):
that we we do have a lot of strife, that
we do have warfare. I mean, he feels like being
honest out of the gate is going to put us
in a in a better position. What's like with any relationship,
It's kind of the idea, it's like if you hide
too much of who you are if this relationship is
going to blossom, then that stuff's going to come out right, right,
So like, don't lie. It's like, oh, we've never had worse.
(29:32):
What are you talking about? Did you get that out
of that leaked? Yeah? Just a show about that. Yeah,
but you let you let him know, you know, off
the bat, Yeah yeah yeah. So I mean I do
think that's interesting. And then I think the other really
interesting part of this UM, this effort to try to communicate,
(29:54):
is that people are in particular study are trying to
regulate it, and space lawyers are getting in on the
action UM and helping to create protocols so that not
just every time to can Harry, can you know, put
something out there UM and try to communicate with aliens
and we can do it in a responsible way, yeah,
(30:16):
or or not everybody can do like h Like in
two thousand and eight when Dorito's used the observatory in
small bar to being a commercial forty two light years
across the galaxy. So that was a little disappointing. Yeah,
I have a metaphorical tier just going down the pace
right now. But it's just so sad, and I guess
that's why you need space lawyers right not just to
(30:38):
to um take up litigation over disputes among astronauts, but
to possibly say, hey, that you know you're violating Code
xx j Y seven. Don't please three thats don't do
that again. UM. To go back briefly to Paul Davies.
(30:59):
Davies is actually on a on set. He's a he's
actually the chair of st he's a post Detection task group.
And UM, so the idea of being that if we
detect human life, then they call up like the task force,
and Davies and company like march into like a I guess,
like a special control room and start you know, figuring
out what they're gonna say. But I read an interview
(31:20):
where where Davies pointed out what he thought were like
the key things to hit and during you know, any
kind of communication with an alien civilization. And and he
said that you you want to hit the number one.
There's no um, you know, single government on the planet,
which I guess is good in case they're like, you know,
they just tune in and just you know catch something
(31:40):
out of like a really destabilized region, you know, or
some like or you know, you know, you can use
your imagination any you know, corner of the world that
is maybe not the best. Uh. Well, I guess every corner,
no corner of the world is like a good representation
of the whole. So you wouldn't you know, want them
to give that impression, you know. Um. And then also, no,
there's no unitary political philosophy or ideology again, you know,
(32:03):
if they were just to tune in and just like
you know, pick any religion, pick any you know, um
political party in the world, and you can probably pick
out some really extreme things that would you know, make
them raise an eyebrow or whatever the alien you know
equivalent is. Uh. And then he also said that it
would be important to stress that we're a great place
for freedom, if not anarchy. Uh. And so that we're
(32:26):
and that we're putting we'd want to put together, you know,
like the best possible coherent package about what we are.
You know. Again, it would be kind of like, you know,
not saying we don't have wars, but here's an example
of what's great about us to be like a users manual. Yeah,
here's Earth and human beings and this is how we work. Yeah,
it's like, here's here's a list, this is us words
at all. But here's we're gonna highlight some stuff that's
(32:48):
really good, you know, like you know, you highlight the
music and the art and the humanitarian stuff, but don't
like cross you know, it doesn't need to look like
a like a declassified CIA document where you've you've you've
marked out every horrible thing that done. And and then
I guess too, it wouldn't be like the onions are
dumb world either. We want to take out some of
the sarcasm. But one thing that Davy is also stressed
(33:10):
is that he thinks that in communicating with another another,
you know, civilization, it's kind of like that the whole
we were talking about the weather being like the one
thing that we would have in common with the stranger
and the elevator, Well, Davy says, the one thing we
would have in common with this, uh, this galactic stranger,
it would be mathematics. So all these things that we
just listed, we'd have to somehow find a way to
(33:34):
communicate them through pure mathematics, which is quite a challenge. Yeah,
and again that's I think this is why study is
thinking about this now and inviting so many people into
the conversation. Um artist, musicians, astrophysicists, UM, anybody to say
what is what is the common language that we can
(33:55):
speak in? UM? And I do think the music thing
is really interesting. But again, right if you don't have
a context, but music is based on mathematics, and what
sort of mathematics would they be using anyway? UM? Again
would it would our mathematics look so um primitive that
it would just be like, what what are these scratchings here?
(34:17):
I really like the idea of the future where all
communications with an alien species are conducted by like really
talented DJs. So it's like you want to you want
to convey a certain feeling that we have, like he goes,
guy goes in, like grabs records and starts like mixing
stuff together. I left that too. I like your idea
of that you did this with the unit hemispheric um brains,
(34:37):
where if if you were only using one side of
your brain. I think that you wanted to have some
sort of system where you could tell people like, hey,
don't don't ask me a really hard question right now,
I can't have my brain. So I'm liking this too. Yeah,
I think that music could be a wonderful way to
for us to try to communicate with each other. Well, you, uh,
everybody listening out there, you have to tell us what
(34:59):
you think you're, if you're human or if you're an alien.
I don't know, I just putting that out there. We
might have some alien listeners. Yeah, d D D d D,
thanks for listening. For more on this and thousands of
other topics, visit how stuff works dot com, the house
(35:20):
stuff works dot com. My phone app is coming soon.
Get access to our content in a new way, articles, videos,
and more all on the go. Check out the latest
podcasts and blog post and see what we're saying on
Facebook and Twitter. Coming soon to iTunes
Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind from how Stuff
Works dot com. Hey, welcome to the podcast. This is
Robert lamb Um Julie Douglas. Tell me, Julie, have you
ever been stuck on an elevator and find yourself in
a situation where you feel like you have to make
smallpop with another person, a stranger. Yeah, it's kind of tough.
(00:25):
I mean usually sort of look around and for some
reason or another, weather is pretty reliable as a topic. Yeah,
it's instantly relatable. Everybody has to deal with it, and uh,
opinions are not going to vary too much, you know, right, Yeah,
that's it's not a lightning rod subject usually, and unless
there's a right lightning rods are the subject, I guess. Yeah,
then then that's an entirely different elevator you're in, and
(00:49):
it's a pithy subject. You don't just spend a lot
of time on it. Yeah. So yeah, so it's in's
instantly relatable. But then you know it's they're all these
cultural things too. Just you know, you're talking to somebody
that you have no idea where they're coming from. On
um on saye like hand gestures um like uh I
believe it was Amanda Arnold, how Stuff Works editor who
(01:10):
blogs for Cool Stuff on the Planet. She did this
really cool blog entry about how like different hand signals,
how they mean vastly different things, you know, depending on
where you are in the world. Like, you know, thumbs
up is great here some you know, other places you'll
get you know attacked for that, um, you know, making
a little like wolf sign with your hands, like over here,
(01:30):
that means you're like rocking out or you know, or
enjoying heavy metal. Other places it's you're saying something like
really bad about somebody's mother, right, showing the bottom of
your foot too, right, you can pass your legs, yeah
like that actually, um yeah, that's like Thailand. That's a
huge thing there. And when my wife and I visited there,
like that was something that's like we're just really on
edge the whole time, Like, oh my goodness, you know,
(01:52):
make sure I do not gesture with my feet when
I sit down, you know, make sure I don't you know,
cross my legs so that I'm pointing the bottom of
my foot at somebody. And even in the airport, like
leaving um and flying on the Thailand air Uh. They
they had like a separate container to for your shoes
to be x rayed in then separate from the rest
(02:14):
of your stuff, because the idea of putting your shoes
in with your pocket things is just, you know, not acceptable,
It's insane. Yeah. So it's like I'm I'm kind of
kind of like washed off on me, and I still
find myself like I'll be in a meeting like here
at work, and I'll be like, oh, my goodness, did
I just point the bottom of my foot at my boss?
What am I thinking? You know? And then I have
to remind myself he doesn't care because he's not tie right.
(02:37):
But Yeah, So I think what that kind of makes
me think of is how difficult it is to actually
communicate with one another. Yeah, and that's just on this planet.
So when we start talking about the possibility of speaking
with other worlds and you know, other you know, interstellar civilizations, uh,
it just gets entirely more complicated, right, because I mean,
(02:59):
how we how would you even know what the cultural
norms are of another civilization? Yeah? Or what what do
you have in common with something that lives, you know,
on the other side of the galaxy and evolved, you know,
in completely different situations, which leads us to our subject today,
which is all right, if we do actually engage in
(03:19):
conversation with these beings. Yeah, what's the adequate yea, what
do we do? How do we behave? What do we
talk about? How do we talk about it? Yeah? Who's
regulating this anyway? Yeah? Yeah, it turns out a lot
of people are giving it some serious thought. Yeah, and
it's really it's been in the news lately for a
couple of reasons. One I think it's because there were
some ex military personnel who signed an affic David that
(03:44):
basically said, hey, we saw some UFOs hovering of our
military silences. Um, you know, we've got to put that
out in the open. And then there was what has
turned out to be a false rumor that Malaysian asked
your physicist Maslin Offman was to become the UN spokesperson
for Earth just in case aliens engaged us. So it's
(04:07):
like the aliens, you know, contact us, and it's it's
the middle of the night in Malaysia. Then people are like,
whoa hold on, give us, give us thirty minutes. We
have to go wake somebody up. Yeah, and they're like, hey, Offman,
you're on you're on deck, right, and so that again
that turns out to be false. But definitely aliens are
on the mind. And in fact, there's a booking company
(04:28):
that places bets that actually has a hundred to one odds.
They're offering this that either the U S President or
the serving British Prime Minister will announce existence of e
t s within a year of the bet being placed.
I wonder if you can place bets on whether it
will be announced like during elections, you know, or in
(04:50):
the lead up to elections, Like how would that like? What?
What are what works? Like? If you're if you want
to be re elected, do you you tell everybody they're aliens?
Or do you you set on it right right? I
don't know. We need to talk to some bookies about this,
all the different factors that contribute to the odds, but
in any case, it's definitely on our minds. And there
are a couple of reasons for that. I mean, beyond
(05:12):
the fact that it's been in the news. One of that.
One of the reasons is because of the Setti Institute. Yeah,
and these folks they make it their job to search
for extraterrestrial intelligence. That's what they do day in, day
out satellites. UM. There list basically cosmic eavesdroppers, if you will,
(05:32):
searching for some sort of signal that our little green
friends are out there, and they're really pondering in a
really significant way, what would happen if they were out there?
What if we did establish contact? Yeah, and a lot
of this UM. One of the key ingredients in in
in their belief and a lot of people believe that
(05:54):
there there is intelligent life out there somewhere is the
Drake equation, which is if if you look at the
entire equation, it's like the one that looks like inn
equals are with a little star by it. Uh, you know,
fd N E f L f I, f c L
and these all stand for different things like in equals
the number of communicative civilizations are equals the rate of
(06:17):
formation of suitable stars FP is the fraction of those
stars with planets. Uh. Then you know it breaks down
along lines of like the you know, number of Earth
like world per planetary system, the fraction of those planets
that where life actually develops, the fraction of life sites
where intelligence develops, um, you know, and and uh and
contendering like communication issues as well, So it's we we
(06:40):
don't really we can't always say definitively what the value
would be for each of these letters, but we can
we can sort of make we can make educated guesses.
So we make educated guesses, and then when we plug up,
plug all those numbers into the equation, we get a
sort of a rough, very rough, you know, estimate of
how many intelligent civilizations there might be. And based on
(07:01):
Drake's um own current solution to his own equation, the
Drake equation, uh, he thinks there would be ten thousand, uh,
communitive civilizations in the Milky Way, right, And again this
is kind of this is rough science. So there are
a lot of different parts of this equation that criticism. Yeah,
people will put in different numbers and say, actually it's
not ten thousand, it's more like one. Yeah. Yeah, So
(07:26):
it varies tremendously, but it's a it's something that gives
people a lot of Um. I don't know if hope
is really the word, because I mean, I think there's
a lot of concern and know a little fear about
the possibility there being something out there, But a lot
of people, you know, continue to work, you know far
you know it's set because they believe there's a really
good chance that it's there. And if it's there, we
need to know about it. Line up, you know, protocol, right.
(07:50):
And I think the fact too that astronomers have discovered
that there are three planets beyond our Solar system. There's
the idea that one of them could be an earthlike
planet in their for could produce life forms. So, given
given everything that's been in the news, the fact that
study is is making this grand exploration into the question
of extraterrestrial life, the Drake equation, I think what what
(08:14):
it's all pointing to is, Okay, it could It could
happen in two years, it could happen in forty years.
We're not quite certain. We've got some math and science
to bear out different results. But what if it did
happen tomorrow? Yeah, what would we do? Would it just
be it would be in a situation where would just
be chaos? Would it just you know, be everybody with
(08:35):
a radio station and TV going on and pretending to
be the spokesman for humanity, right, introducing themselves with the
President of the United States or president of the Ukraine.
I don't know people using it as a you know,
an excuse to appeal to voters or to slam that,
you know, candidates. You know, the sky's the limit, you know,
So you end up having to have some sort of
(08:55):
protocol in place, you know, some sort of maybe a
decision making body, but at least a body that can
you know, direct policy and let a thought into how
can you effectively communicate given that, as you said before
at the top of the podcast, that it's hard enough
for us to communicate with one another, let alone some
(09:18):
sort of being out there. Yeah, because like in the elevator,
the message is pretty simple. It's hey guy, Um, I'm
a normal dude too. The fact that we're talking to
each other and in this owner and stuck in this
elevator together, it's not weird at all, right, right, that
we're sealed up right now, You're right, and that that
is really if you're reading between the lines, that's saying.
You're saying I won't threaten you, You won't threaten me either, right. Um, Yes,
(09:42):
the weather is great outside. So what what have we
actively been telling aliens or think that we've been telling them? Well,
it's I like to kind of think of it in
terms of Facebook. Um, not because Facebook is constantly on
my mind, though I do have to use it for work,
so I guess it is. But but like in Facebook,
(10:03):
you have like your profile right everything you know, profiles
out there, and certain aspects, certain corners of that profile,
depending on how you have your setting, may be locked
so that if there if someone's not your friend on Facebook,
they can't see everything about you. Maybe they can only
see your picture and some you know, basic stats and
you have no idea who's looking at it. You know,
it could be people from high school that you don't
(10:24):
want to have contact with. It could be crazy people
in other countries, um, you know, aliens surfing the Internet.
And that's the thing. We have a lot of information
out there that's just sort of leaked away from the
planet and is you know, conceivably available, such as TV
and radio signals. So that's what from the last fifty
years we've been we've had some leakage, so to speak.
(10:46):
And it's you know, there are actually some really cool
charts online that show like just how far they've spread
into what, you know, what stars, these different you know
shows have reached. You know, there are portions of the
of the Milky Way that are you know, geting um,
you know, they're getting the untouchables, or they're getting Gilgigins Island.
You know, they're getting you know, Buck Rogers there. It's
just you know, it's like cultural leakage, you know, through
(11:09):
television and just sort of expanding outward. So if some
being were cosmic doing some cosmic eavesdropping, that being would say, wow,
this these people are kind of nuts. Maybe they've gone
through a lot of strife, They've created a lot of strife,
They've had moments of grace, and they have Jersey Shore. Yeah. Yeah,
(11:29):
So it's like what kind of message you're sending. It's like,
especially they choose to like focus just on say the
Second World War and Jersey Shore. You know, right, you
know they could you could. It's it's pretty I mean,
I hate to be too pessimistic, but if you had
to compile an argument for the eradication of Earth just
you know, based on television programming, you could probably make
(11:49):
a pretty strong argument. You know, but you're right, it's
it's a bleak thought. But yeah, and then and then
there's all like if Heaven forbid aliens get a hold
of our Internet. I mean, it's there's just so much
stuff out there. You know. It's like our we we
put like so much of our our culture and our
global civilization into television, into the Internet and into these things,
(12:13):
and it's not necessarily the best um argument for who
we are or not the argument we want to put
forth to other planets. Would would be like if you
had your complete Facebook all the way open to everybody
in the world, you know, and like, you know, potential
employer logs on and they're like, oh, you know, he's
really a fan of you know, these films that are
(12:34):
kind of weird or oh that. You know, it's like
his profile pictures is Halloween costume and he looks like
somebody I don't want to employ, you know. It's you know,
it's that it's that kind of thing. We have a
lot of stuff that we don't necessarily want to put
out there for public you know, consumption in the universe. Yeah,
So where to begin? I mean, we're going to describe ourselves.
What's the best way to do? I mean, I mean,
we're we're pretty complex, multi multifaceted human beings. Um. It
(12:59):
makes me think of one of the first things to
go out there in a in a very um an
actually organized way, which is the Pioneer plaque, Yes, nineteen
seventy two. Uh, this was a plaque that was adhered
to Pioneers eleven and twelve the spacecraft, and it had
(13:22):
an image on or has an image floating around right
now of a woman, a man, the Solar System, the sun,
essentially a side section of the spacecraft. A couple other
things on there. Yeah, there's um maybe like a hydrogen
(13:43):
hydrogen molecule, molecule diagram. Um, there's a they also have
on the map of the Solar System that shows the
directory of the craft to show where it came from,
where it's going, and uh, and some other stuff too
to judge, like is there's some stuff in there about
the frequencies of pulsar um. They'll enable other civilizations to
potentially determine the time that has lapsed since the Pioneer
(14:06):
was launched, you know, things of that nature, and you know,
and just to sort of show that like, hey, these
are the this is the ship. You know, these are
the creatures that made the ship, and this is a
general idea of their you know, scientific proficiency, right and
sort of like where it's sort of like where we
are in the world, um you know, I mean the
solar system, where earths in the solar system, the side
(14:29):
section of the aircraft as it relates to the dimensions
of a human being as well, So trying to get
some sort of scope on that. But what I think
is really interesting about this is if an alien were
to intercept this, I still think it would be a
little bit baffling. Yeah, because who's to you know, we
we bring a little uh anthropomorphic chauvinism to just about anything.
(14:55):
So you know what if you know, you look at
these these these people, I mean, we look at and
we know it's an the very at least we you know,
you know it's an animal, and you know, and we
know it's a human. But that, you know, that doesn't
mean another you know, civilization, you know, another alien species
would be able to look at that and figure out
what it was, you know, I mean like is it
a living thing? Is it sculpture? Is it you know,
(15:15):
is it a rock formation? You know? Is it just lines?
I mean, like you think of things like um like
like just human you know, neurological things like face blindness
and the like, you know, things that that prohibit the
mind from understanding, um, a form something out of context.
So yeah, they could look at it and see nothing
(15:36):
they I mean, maybe they could tell at the very
least that it is not a natural, you know, composition.
But who's to say they could decide for anything beyond that, right,
And it might even look like a cave drawing to them,
you know, so so primitive that they have to stare
at it for a very long time. Say whoa, wait,
hold on, I think this is some sort of object
that it was useful to them. But I think what
(15:57):
I want to look at the drawing a little closer,
because I think it more than saying anything to aliens,
I think it says a lot to us as as
a culture. Um. And if you look at the drawing,
you've got the male and the female and they're both nude.
And by the way, this caused some controversy when it
first came out. Oh yeah, there was. I have to
(16:18):
read this. I got this out of UH one of
Sagan's books. This is a copy of a letter that
went into Los Angeles Times, UH and the times it published,
you know, a picture of that image on the front
of the newspaper, and this this person wrote in and said,
I must say I was shocked by the blatant display
of both male and female sex organs on the front
(16:39):
page of the Times. Surely this type of sexual exploitation
is below the standards of our community. That below the
standards our community has come to expect from the Times.
Isn't it enough that we must tolerate the bombardment of
pornography through the media of film and smut magazines. Isn't
it bad enough that our own space agency officials have
found it necessary to spread this filth even beyond our
(17:02):
own solar system. It's kind of awesome you think about,
especially in the context of this image. Is really actually
puritanical looking at it now, But at the time, yeah,
it was interstellar pornography. They thought that, some people thought.
And you have, um, the male who is he's signifying
(17:22):
a sort of good will chester with his hand up.
He looks very awkward. I think he does like I do.
You think it just drives home just how ridiculous masculine
nudity is anyway, saying he looks really uncomfortable, he really
wishes he had his clothes on, I think. And then
you have the female standing next to him, and the
weird thing about her is that because she's not signifying
(17:45):
at all. She's not waving, so that's saying something right there. Yeah,
like she's going to be an antisocial Yeah yeah, it's like,
how okay? And this is this is the female. She
doesn't speak, and the other thing is right right, I
am the master of the universe, I think, is what
maybe that's saying. And the female is shifted slightly to
one hip, so one of her legs is um sort
(18:07):
of like at a forty five degreeing. I don't know
how you would describe that, and she it looks a
little suggestive. And if I were an alien and I
could start to kind of pick up on some of
the nuances here, I might think that she would be
open to dinner and drinks later. Well, but a part
of that is that she does look more natural and
(18:27):
that the guy just looks like just very stuff. You know,
she does she does. She actually looks like she's she's
used to being naked a lot. And it's the seventies
right when this is being drawn, so it's very possible
that this is modeled after someone. Well. Another interesting you know,
aspect of that, speaking of her nudity in particular, is
(18:47):
a NaSTA official censor this image before you go out.
It was originally uh and this is this according to
like to say, you know a lot of people like
it's been discussed enough that it's just not Nobody Nasty
even denies it that they they decided to edit her
a little bit so that she's not completely anatomically correct,
Like she's more Barbie Doll than you know, smut magazine
(19:10):
rights the language of the La Times, right, I mean,
to be specific, the line that would define the Volvo's
this's correct was e racist. Yeah, and I mean with
the male it's it's still very simple, but it's obviously
you know, there's some frank and beans or something going.
I mean, you know, it's like I can imagine like
aliens look in this and be like, well, where does
(19:30):
that even go? How does this work? I don't, Yeah,
I don't. I don't get this. Really, these are two
different a sexual species, right, they lay eggs in the
water and then yeah, I wouldn't be able to get
a lick of sense out of this. I think I
was an alien. But it is fascinating because it really
is kind of spelling out who we who we think
we are. Um at least in nineteen seventy two. And
(19:53):
the other thing I was thinking about is, Okay, so
the plaque we know is going to exist well beyond
our lifetimes, So I don't know, forty years from now,
someone can intercept this, So we as a as a
race might look very different or evolve into a very
different type of being than what's represented in nineteen seventy two. Yeah,
(20:18):
not to mention, um, you know how much like I mean,
just you know, this is just that this is the
human body, and it's like you know, un costumed form,
you know, and when you talk about like the you know,
the future revolution of humans and how like wearable computer
technology factors into it, I mean, it's this may not
really be a complete picture of you know, even if
(20:39):
if biologically we don't evolve all that much, will this
be a good you know, image of what human society is? Um?
You know, you know this that that far into the future,
like right, so because we'll have certain as presumably you
will have certain uh types of equipment attached to our
it's at least we think this right now. And if
(21:00):
we indeed, if technology ends up, if we end up
having more of almost a symbiotic relationship with our technology,
you know, factoring in things like the idea of a
technological singularity where computers you know exceed you know, human capacity,
and and you know, maybe we end up with something
kind of like in the the n and Bank Banks
culture novels, where you have like computers are kind of
(21:20):
like looking after people and taking care of all the
the real serious stuff, while humans have kind of, um uh,
you know, this kind of you know, free society where
they kind of do what they want, don't have to
worry about, you know, any kind of serious situations. Like
maybe in that respect, it's it makes sense that voyagers
there in the background, and maybe they'll say, hey, there's
the computerized machine that's that's actually does everything, and they
(21:42):
are these are the naked people that just kind of
do what they want. There's their gut in the background, right, Um,
but that's that's what I think is just this is
very interesting. It's a little time capsule of that shot
out there, but it's not the only one, right. Yeah,
we follow this up with the voyager missions and we
in a little we're a little more robust with this
this mission. My understanding of sagan Um I wanted to
(22:06):
actually include like more like naked like photographs, you know,
I mean, you know, nothing like you know, something very yeah, clinical,
you know, just to show exactly this is the this
is the human organism. And that was that was you know,
completely censored, and I think they went with a silhouette instead.
But we also included the Golden Records. Yeah, and the
Golden Records, in which, uh they're like what hundred sixteen
(22:28):
images on this record? There are greetings and fifty nine languages.
There's uh, bits of ephemera, so to speak, a sound
of a kiss, wind and thunder birds, whales, other animals,
fifty five languages, um printed messages from President Carter. I
(22:51):
don't know, I don't know why I'm laughing about that.
He's a wonderful man. But yes, for I guess it's
just the quality of oh well, it's nineteen seventy seven. Again,
here's this representation of life specifically in this one year,
in this universe, which is kind of funny. And we
included I think some classical music, yeah, yeah, and I
mean and it is definitely a fuller representation of the
(23:12):
human experience in n rather than this sort of crude
line drawing um from the pioneer plaque. But I think
what's interesting about it too is that um and actually
this was a piece on NPR that they did. They
talked about how Carl second and and drew in his
second wife, how that that period in time that UM,
(23:36):
that Golden Record is, in a weird way, sort of
an example of their versioning relationship and when they were
falling in love. And I thought it was interesting is
that they also recorded the electrical impulses of Anne's brain
and her nervous system, turning them into sound. And then
the hope was that maybe in a one million years
(23:59):
or one thousand million years actually, um, some alien civilization
might be able to turn that data back into thoughts.
And at the time when she when they were recording that,
she actually meditated, and she was meditating on the awe
of love and being in love. So, I mean, it's
such a romantic scientific thing. You gotta love it. It is,
(24:23):
I mean, and it's a great story of scientists and love.
It's just yeah, it's it's well if you haven't heard it,
it's well worth looking up. Yeah. Absolutely, But yeah, here's
here's another piece of um or pieces of data that
we've thrown or we've flung into space trying to explain
who we are. Yeah, it's interesting to include like the
music in the art because I was reading some stuff
(24:45):
from Paul Davies, be cosmologist, who's um really awesome guy.
I got to interview it for a Discovery News article
earlier this year and just you know, just very just
brilliant dude, very relatable though, and can just break down
these topics with these but he pointed out that like
art in music are are, they're very tied to our
cognitive architecture. Like in one sense, like music is like
(25:10):
a great example of who we are, but it's something
that an alien species could easily have no frame of
reference and just totally not appreciate on any level. You know, right,
it might be some kind of weird squawking thing that
we Yeah. Yeah, so in in a way it's like
it's the perfect example of who we are, but there's
a very good chance nobody could read it. Which is
interesting because um in in talking about how we could
(25:34):
communicate with aliens, and this is this is what study
has really been queuing itself up to do or actually
to think about. Music has has come up as one
of the ways that might be a language that we
could share. Yeah, and um, And what I'm thinking about
too is that that there was a workshop that the
(25:55):
Study Institute had in Paris in two thousand and two,
and the invited people from all the disciplines and they
got them in a room and said, let's really start
thinking in a very serious way about how we can
communicate with aliens effectively and what sort of modes we
can do that in. How can you now? No, this
(26:16):
was an actual workshop, but the college credit came later
because I can just imagine like a lot of jocks
signing up for that one thing and it's gonna be
an easy course. Yeah, they're gonna be like, we just say, hey,
not to stereotype jocks, because you wouldn't say that. Then
maybe you never know, there could be scientists out there
and we salute you. Prove me wrong. But there was.
(26:39):
There was actually a college credit that you could get
at the University of Wyoming in two thousand and eight,
and it was a program sponsored by NASA and the UH.
The name of it is called Interstellar Message Composition. They
have eleven students. The students were asked ponder how aliens
(27:01):
might communicate, whether they'd be able to translate human language,
and if they'd be able to see or hear them.
So those were just some thoughts to get them going
thinking outside the terrestrial box. Yeah, yeah, this is this
is their um, their college think tank, I suppose. So,
I mean, if you look at what studies doing is
actually pretty interesting, is that they are picking the brains
(27:22):
of everyone they can about about this problem of communication,
how do we do it and how do we do
it effectively? And one of the communications that came out
of it was from a student who wrote a poem
about menstruation with syllables arranged in the fibonacci sequence. A
poem about menstruation. Yes, now you know women, do you
(27:45):
represent populations? So, I mean that might be an interesting
tidbit too share with the aliens, though out of context,
I don't know that. Um, it seems like I don't know.
I'm just thinking, like when I meet people, like the
first ing out of there, like I feel like I
have met people before for the first thing they say
does relate demonstration, and it it kind of makes the
(28:07):
rest of the conversation a little awkward for me. Well,
so if this is a perfect point that the actually Um,
people have been making about what we're going to say
to aliens, like do we do you just you know,
do you lock down sort of uh like Facebook style
some parts of your personal profile so that you don't
(28:27):
scare people off. Me, You don't necessarily if you meet
your neighbors, say hey, I'm so and so in about
an hour, I'm going to be completely ripped and like,
you know, naked in my backyard. I mean, these are
not things that you normally say to someone if you're
that person who does that. Um. But now, Douglas vatch Off,
(28:49):
back off, excuse me, completely wrong. Douglas Vakoch, who is
studies interstellar communication guru, basically says, you know what, we
should be trying parent about who we are. UM, not
necessarily being talking about minstruation or um binge drinking, but
being more transparent about who we are as a human race. UM,
(29:12):
that we we do have a lot of strife, that
we do have warfare. I mean, he feels like being
honest out of the gate is going to put us
in a in a better position. What's like with any relationship,
It's kind of the idea, it's like if you hide
too much of who you are if this relationship is
going to blossom, then that stuff's going to come out right, right,
So like, don't lie. It's like, oh, we've never had worse.
(29:32):
What are you talking about? Did you get that out
of that leaked? Yeah? Just a show about that. Yeah,
but you let you let him know, you know, off
the bat, Yeah yeah yeah. So I mean I do
think that's interesting. And then I think the other really
interesting part of this UM, this effort to try to communicate,
(29:54):
is that people are in particular study are trying to
regulate it, and space lawyers are getting in on the
action UM and helping to create protocols so that not
just every time to can Harry, can you know, put
something out there UM and try to communicate with aliens
and we can do it in a responsible way, yeah,
(30:16):
or or not everybody can do like h Like in
two thousand and eight when Dorito's used the observatory in
small bar to being a commercial forty two light years
across the galaxy. So that was a little disappointing. Yeah,
I have a metaphorical tier just going down the pace
right now. But it's just so sad, and I guess
that's why you need space lawyers right not just to
(30:38):
to um take up litigation over disputes among astronauts, but
to possibly say, hey, that you know you're violating Code
xx j Y seven. Don't please three thats don't do
that again. UM. To go back briefly to Paul Davies.
(30:59):
Davies is actually on a on set. He's a he's
actually the chair of st he's a post Detection task group.
And UM, so the idea of being that if we
detect human life, then they call up like the task force,
and Davies and company like march into like a I guess,
like a special control room and start you know, figuring
out what they're gonna say. But I read an interview
(31:20):
where where Davies pointed out what he thought were like
the key things to hit and during you know, any
kind of communication with an alien civilization. And and he
said that you you want to hit the number one.
There's no um, you know, single government on the planet,
which I guess is good in case they're like, you know,
they just tune in and just you know catch something
(31:40):
out of like a really destabilized region, you know, or
some like or you know, you know, you can use
your imagination any you know, corner of the world that
is maybe not the best. Uh. Well, I guess every corner,
no corner of the world is like a good representation
of the whole. So you wouldn't you know, want them
to give that impression, you know. Um. And then also, no,
there's no unitary political philosophy or ideology again, you know,
(32:03):
if they were just to tune in and just like
you know, pick any religion, pick any you know, um
political party in the world, and you can probably pick
out some really extreme things that would you know, make
them raise an eyebrow or whatever the alien you know
equivalent is. Uh. And then he also said that it
would be important to stress that we're a great place
for freedom, if not anarchy. Uh. And so that we're
(32:26):
and that we're putting we'd want to put together, you know,
like the best possible coherent package about what we are.
You know. Again, it would be kind of like, you know,
not saying we don't have wars, but here's an example
of what's great about us to be like a users manual. Yeah,
here's Earth and human beings and this is how we work. Yeah,
it's like, here's here's a list, this is us words
at all. But here's we're gonna highlight some stuff that's
(32:48):
really good, you know, like you know, you highlight the
music and the art and the humanitarian stuff, but don't
like cross you know, it doesn't need to look like
a like a declassified CIA document where you've you've you've
marked out every horrible thing that done. And and then
I guess too, it wouldn't be like the onions are
dumb world either. We want to take out some of
the sarcasm. But one thing that Davy is also stressed
(33:10):
is that he thinks that in communicating with another another,
you know, civilization, it's kind of like that the whole
we were talking about the weather being like the one
thing that we would have in common with the stranger
and the elevator, Well, Davy says, the one thing we
would have in common with this, uh, this galactic stranger,
it would be mathematics. So all these things that we
just listed, we'd have to somehow find a way to
(33:34):
communicate them through pure mathematics, which is quite a challenge. Yeah,
and again that's I think this is why study is
thinking about this now and inviting so many people into
the conversation. Um artist, musicians, astrophysicists, UM, anybody to say
what is what is the common language that we can
(33:55):
speak in? UM? And I do think the music thing
is really interesting. But again, right if you don't have
a context, but music is based on mathematics, and what
sort of mathematics would they be using anyway? UM? Again
would it would our mathematics look so um primitive that
it would just be like, what what are these scratchings here?
(34:17):
I really like the idea of the future where all
communications with an alien species are conducted by like really
talented DJs. So it's like you want to you want
to convey a certain feeling that we have, like he goes,
guy goes in, like grabs records and starts like mixing
stuff together. I left that too. I like your idea
of that you did this with the unit hemispheric um brains,
(34:37):
where if if you were only using one side of
your brain. I think that you wanted to have some
sort of system where you could tell people like, hey,
don't don't ask me a really hard question right now,
I can't have my brain. So I'm liking this too. Yeah,
I think that music could be a wonderful way to
for us to try to communicate with each other. Well, you, uh,
everybody listening out there, you have to tell us what
(34:59):
you think you're, if you're human or if you're an alien.
I don't know, I just putting that out there. We
might have some alien listeners. Yeah, d D D d D,
thanks for listening. For more on this and thousands of
other topics, visit how stuff works dot com, the house
(35:20):
stuff works dot com. My phone app is coming soon.
Get access to our content in a new way, articles, videos,
and more all on the go. Check out the latest
podcasts and blog post and see what we're saying on
Facebook and Twitter. Coming soon to iTunes
Stuff To Blow Your Mind News
Hosts And Creators
Robert Lamb
Joe McCormick
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.