September 16, 2025 • 52 mins
Once more, it's time for a dose of Stuff to Blow Your Mind and Weirdhouse Cinema listener mail...
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, a production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Hey you welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind listener Mail.
My name is Robert Lamb.
Speaker 3 (00:15):
And I am Joe McCormick. And on listener Mail episodes,
we read back some of the messages that you have
sent into the Stuff to Blow your Mind email address.
If you've never gotten in touch before and you would
like to, why not give it a try this week?
You can write us at contact at stuff to Blow
your Mind dot com. We appreciate messages of all types,
(00:36):
especially if you have something to add to a topic
we've recently talked about on the show. If you have
just something interesting you want to share with us, whether
even if it's totally random, that's always fine. If you
have corrections, if you have comments, if you have questions,
if you want to suggest a topic for the future,
or suggest a movie for Weird House Cinema, whatever it is,
(00:57):
send it our way contact at stuff to Blow your
dot com. And if you write in, there is a
chance that your message may be featured on a future
listener Mail episode like this one.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
That's right, We read all of it. We don't always
have time to respond directly to it and not everything
gets onto the podcast, obviously, but we will read anything
you said us.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
A very weird house heavy batch this time, which is fine,
so be it. But I think first maybe we should
get into some responses to our episodes of Star Trek Week.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
That's right, We're just coming off of Star Trek Week,
the first Star Trek Week celebrated here on stuff to
blow your mind. But if folks loved it, we'll come
back and do it again next year.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
All right, rob do you mind if I do this
one from Elena?
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Yes, Elena, that you do mind? Well, I do mind,
but I'm swallowing my feelings on this one.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
Right, Okay, This is from Elena. Subject line Turkish Star Trek. Hello,
Robert and Joe. I just listened to the episode about
the Star Trek Salt Monster, one of the most memorable
monster designs in the show in my opinion, and the
(02:11):
creepy moths. This is referencing the first of two core
episodes we did during Star Trek Week, where we talked
about the first ever episode of Star Trek, the first
one ever on TV called The Man Trap, which was
about a salt vampire, a shape shifting creature that sucked
the salt out of your body through with like suckers
that attached to the face, and that, of course led
(02:34):
us to a biology conversation about moths that in various
ways will parasitize you for salt, will suck salt from
your tears or even from your blood. So Elena goes
on to say it immediately reminded me of oh Mayer
the Tourist in Star Trek, a nineteen seventy three Turkish film.
It's a parody movie that takes major plot inspiration from
(02:56):
the Man Trap episode years ago. I managed to watch
it with English subtitles and it was a fun experience.
I also recall scenes borrowed from other notable episodes, like
a fight scene between Kirk and what was supposed to
be the Gorn Rob. I dug up some screenshots from
Omer the Tourist in Star Trek. I attached them in
the outline for you to see. Here, we have a
(03:20):
I think this is supposed to be Spock in a
yellow shirt, but he does have the pointy years in
Spock's hair, so I think that's him. We got some
like muscly shirtless guy in a speedo. I don't know
what that's supposed to be. The poster appears to have
Godzilla on it. I don't know if that's a mashup
of Godzilla and Gorn.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
Yeah, some sort of fire breathing reptile.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
And also some characters standing around in what might be
Roman ruins that they're using as a set here. Yeah, yeah,
that's an interesting choice. But also having some Star Trek
uniforms in colors that I don't remember from the show,
like we've got a you know, you've got your red
shirts and you've got your yellow shirts. Here we have
a brown shirt and then kind of a teal green skirt.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, this looks interesting. I have to
admit this one was not on my radar. I'm familiar
by reputation with like Turkish Star Wars and some other
b cinema examples from Turkish film, and there are a
few Turkish movies that are still on the list for
(04:24):
Weird House Cinema. Oh yeah, but we haven't really gotten
around to them just yet. We'll have to remedy that
in the months ahead.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
Elena says. Since it was released before Star Trek the
Motion Picture, it's technically the first movie set in the
Star Trek universe. Amazing. This is probably too strange even
for weird house cinema. Oh, Elena, you should listen this Friday,
by the way, but I wanted to share this oddity
from Turkish cinema anyway, Elena.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
This is exactly the sort of weird house cinema listener
mail I like to receive. Yeah, clue me in about
something weird out there that was totally not on my radar.
Speaker 3 (04:59):
Exactly. Thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
All right. We also heard from Jared Jared Wrightson and
says thank you for Star Trek week. Listening to the
episodes really brought back memories of sitting around the TV
watching Star Trek with my dad, both the original series
and the next generation. Sadly, he passed away due to
complications of COVID in twenty twenty, but this week's episode
brought back some great memories of him. My dad was
a diehard Trekie, so much so that I did not
(05:24):
watch a Star Wars movie until I was an adult,
as it was considered not as good in our house.
I think his love for Star Trek was influenced by
his love of other non sci fi shows such as
westerns and cereals. Such as Bonanza and gun Smoke. Something
about the portrayal of flawed characters coming together to do
what was right struck a chord with him and for me,
(05:45):
really formed a perspective on life that I did not
fully recognize until adulthood. As an adult, I have learned
what a cultural stepping stone Star Trek truly was, and
knowing when and where my father grew up in rural Appalachia,
watching shows like Star Trek would have been considered progressive
for the time and place, with different ethnicities being portrayed
and given rank and importance on the crew. Star Trek's
(06:07):
decision to step in that direction help the generation of
TV watchers become more accepting of others, even if they
were aliens. Thanks again, Live Long and prosper Jared.
Speaker 3 (06:16):
Yeah, I think this is a common reception experience that
the people report, even outside of not just being in
rural Appalachia, I mean all over.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
I think, yeah, absolutely. And also the connection to Westerns
is definitely worth noting as well. I don't know how
much we stress that in our episodes during Star Trek Week,
but Star Trek does come out of the world of
TV Westerns in many respects. I mean a lot of
the players, of course, were in westerns. Many of the
Riders had worked in westerns, and a good bit of
(06:46):
that Western DNA as president in the show.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
I think you can say that about Star Wars as well.
I mean, yeah, yeah, some ways, it's got some gunslinger
stuff in there.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
I mean, really, the TV and film westerns cap a
huge shadow. I mean, you hear folks like John Carpenter
for instance, Yeah, you know, very few of his films
are one hundred percent Westerns. I think he has like
what one full blown Western in the filmography, but he
credits Westerns like across his filmography for being a heavy
(07:17):
influence on at least the sort of the form and
function of the pictures.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
That's right. I think for a lot of the directors
working in roughly that generation growing up with Westerns, it
was just it was an influence on all of them,
even if it wasn't totally their thing. So it's kind
of like, even if you're not a diehard Star Wars
or Star Trek fan, you know, most people making films
coming up nowadays have some of that influence on their childhood,
(07:42):
right right, all right. This next message is from Bert
Bert says, Hey, Robert and Joe love the show. It
keeps the long drives between job sites interesting. If you
think I have some worthwhile thoughts here, I'd be honored
if you include it in one of your listener mail episodes.
(08:02):
I was listening to the Transporters and Consciousness Star Trek
episode and I thought that the swamp Man thought experiment
was interesting but flawed. A quick refresher. This is the
thought experiment by the philosopher Donald Davidson, which was saying, Okay,
imagine I go out walking in a swamp. I get
struck by lightning. My body is completely obliterated, there's nothing left,
(08:24):
and just by coincidence, a tree nearby is also struck
by lightning, and it gets turned into an exact atom
for Adam replica of my body, and it can go
about my business and do everything I do. It acts
exactly as I would in every scenario. It's a perfect
copy of me. But Davidson's argument was, despite the fact
that swamp man is a perfect copy of me and
(08:47):
can behave exactly as I would, it actually does not
have thoughts and the signifiers of its mental activity that
it thinks, you know when it thinks about a dog.
This is not really about adult because it has never
met a dog. So it was interrogating the idea of
what the aboutness of our thoughts really is. So Bert's
(09:09):
response continues, the Swampman copy might never have experienced a
dog or the original version's friend John, but it has
all of the memories from the original. It has the
memories of the experience, the memories of interactions with other minds,
the memories of petting the dog. It has the knowledge
and the feeling of what the experiences were like. Without
(09:31):
that knowledge, it would not have the image or concept
of what a dog or a friend is. So the
recreated Swampman or Spock or McCoy is created a thinking
being with the full knowledge and experience of what the
original new and experienced. Yeah, Bert, I think this is
a common response, and this is what a lot of
Davidson's critics would argue. And this is sort of along
(09:51):
the lines of what Daniel Dinnett was arguing in response
to the idea. But Bert goes on to say, there
is a second flaw. If this Sampman did not have
the connections to understand what a dog or a friend
or a coffee cup is then he would not be
able to speak intelligently. He might call a dog a rocket,
or a friend a dandelion, but it's extremely unlikely he
(10:13):
could formulate a legible sentence. I think Davidson and Dinnett
we're both off the mark on this one. Both Davidson,
Swampman and Dinnet's objections to it are much more applicable
to large language model ais. An AI can be programmed
with definitions and with photos describing to it what things are,
but it will have no actual experience, not even secondhand experience.
(10:37):
It can know, but until it actually has the experience,
it cannot truly understand. But as Dinnet points out, if
it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and
looks like a duck, most people would say it's a duck,
which changes the question from is an AI thinking before
it experiences? To are there any differences between what an
(10:59):
aides before it experiences and what it does after? It
also adds the question if there are, do the differences matter?
That's probably more than long enough for one email. Hope
you found it interesting, bert.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
Oh, Yes, absolutely, thanks for writing in Bertie. We touched
on how this philosophical discussion may or may not apply
to AI a little bit in the episode, but you know, clearly,
as you point out here, you can really go into
the deep end on this one as well.
Speaker 3 (11:29):
Yeah, I think this is actually a very good question. Clearly,
we learn from experience, and is there some quality, some
important quality to the nature of our experience which enables
us to learn and understand which cannot really be achieved
by feeding a machine like discrete, separate little images that
(11:54):
are not actually part of a continuous experience like we
believe we have so like our experience of seeing and
interacting with dogs throughout our life, is there something actually
importantly different about that than just like having a large
language model associate the word dog and other words in
a cloud around the word dog with lots, you know,
(12:16):
millions of different pictures of dogs. Is there actually something
importantly different there in those two different kinds of learning.
I don't know exactly what it would be, but it
strikes me as totally plausible that there's something important missing
that contributes to what we mean when we say understanding
that's missing from the training model of these AIS, but
(12:38):
is present in the human beings experience of the world.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
Yeah, absolutely, I mean we have skin in the game,
and there are different ways to interpret how that applies.
All right, up, next we go. We got a very
nice email from Alec, who writes in and says, Hi,
Robert Joe at all. My name is Olt. I'm a
(13:04):
grad student at U Chicago studying the evolution and mechanics
of the mammal middle ear. I am defending later this
fall and have been doing a lot of reflecting on
the things that have kept my love of science alive,
and thus wanted to extend my deep gratitude for your show.
I have been listening since I was an undergrad, and
your topics and the way you approach your topics, particularly
(13:25):
your deep dives into how fictional organisms would function based
on real biology, have always kept my basic curiosity and
need to learn alive, even against grad school burnout. I
don't think it is an exaggeration to say the stuff
to Blow your mind podcast has played a pivotal role
in my development as a scientist. Thank you for the
great work you do. Cheers Alec. At ps. Have you
(13:47):
considered an episode on why elves, vulcans, etc. Have powenty
years from the folklore perspective. Where does that originate from
a biological perspective? What's the adaptive significance?
Speaker 3 (13:58):
Great questions? Has this come up on the show before?
I would be surprised if it hadn't.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
I was actually researching this a little bit prior to
Star Trek week because I was considering it as a topic.
So may come back to this sooner rather than later.
Speaker 3 (14:13):
But also, Alex, thank you so much for the message.
This kind of stuff, it feels so nice, warms my heart. It. Yeah,
it really really does mean a lot to hear things
like this, So thank you so much, and best of
luck with your thesis or dissertation defense. All right, this
(14:37):
next message, let's do some of the responses to our
Saint Swithin episode. This one comes from Francois subject line
about Saint Swithin's revenge and apologies in advance. I'm gonna
have to read some French in this one. My pronunciation,
I'm sure is going to be abysmal, but I'll do
my best, Francois says, Dear Robert and Joe, I just
(14:59):
listened to your podcas cast about Saint Swithin, and when
you read the saying Saint Swithin's day. If thou dost
reign for forty days, it will remain Saint Swithin's day.
If thou be fair for forty days, twill reign ne
mere and Francois says, I thought, oh, it is an
Irish Saint Medard. Imagine my delight when you referenced our
(15:22):
Saint Medard. This is easily the second most used meteorological
saying in France. However, the version you used is different
from the one I know, and because I heard it
multiple times on TV, it is the official version. It
says see plu a la Saint Medard il pluvera forty
jour plutard a muang ke la sam Barnabie luis coup
(15:46):
le erb sioux lapide and so Francois here has a translation,
which is, if it rains on Saint Medardas day, it
will rain forty days later, unless Saint Barnabas pulls the
r from below his feet, literally cuts the grass beneath
his feet. Francois says, this side steps the issue of
(16:09):
forty days of uninterrupted rain. Oh yeah, as we discussed
in the episode, that that's totally very implausible and that's
basically never gonna happen. It side steps the issue of
forty days of uninterrupted rain. It just says that if
it rains on the eighth of June, it will rain
on the eleventh or eighteenth of July, a much likelier coincidence.
(16:31):
I must admit that I found the version you used
is the one on Catholic dot net. In English, in
case you wonder, the most used meteorological saying in France
is Noel albacon paquet autisson meaning Christmas on the balcony,
Easter by the fire, often nowadays parodied as a niege,
(16:52):
and November Noel and December meaning snow in November, Christmas
in December. Thank you for your podcast, best regards, Francois
and then final ps, still awaiting your take on Podawn, which,
by the way, that's the French title of Donkey Skin
with Catherine Deneuve. We will get there eventually. It's on
(17:13):
the list, Yes.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
I am. I have to say. It looks like as
of this Friday we will already be diving into our
horror selections for October. But usually our pattern is that
once we get out of October, it's time for a
little palate cleansing, so maybe a little fantasy and definitely
a little noir. So I don't know, maybe that'll be
the time of donkey skin.
Speaker 3 (17:36):
M Yeah, but I like your parody saying about December,
if I understand it correctly, by the way I mean.
It is often a joke we have around here in
the American Southeast that like, yeah, it's going to be
hot on Christmas Day, which it sometimes is.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
All Right, This next one comes to us from Hugh.
Hugh says Robert, Joe and JJ. Hello there. It's been
a while since I've written. You guys have been doing
such a great job that I have had few questions
and little of use to add. Your recent episode on
Saint Swiven made me think of that an exploration of
(18:11):
the history of sainthood might be an interesting subject. It
turns out that during the early Middle Ages there were
many many local, regional, and magical saints chosen by communities
large and small. The official saint was part of the
Church's move to homogenize doctrine and consolidate power during the
Late Middle Ages. In early modern times, this is all
as far as I can remember, you understand, but you
(18:31):
get the idea keep up the good work here.
Speaker 3 (18:34):
Oh that's interesting, So, Hugh, if I understand you, right,
the idea is that sainthood begins as a more grassroots
or organic phenomenon, and then later there's the idea of
the church should really be, you know, having a system
to decide who is and isn't a saint, which would
play into Saint Swithin by the way, because as we discussed,
he's called Saint Swithin, but he was never actually officially
(18:57):
canonized by the Catholic Church and not an official Catholics.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
Right right, Yeah, yeah, So it's certainly a fascinating topic.
It would just be a matter of figuring out the
exact sort of the exact form the question takes. I
guess for treatment on stuff to blow your mind, but
I'm always fascinated by this sort of topic. So yeah,
well I've put it on the list.
Speaker 3 (19:17):
I mean, we could look at it in a larger sense,
going just beyond the Catholic thing of like who is holy?
Like why do we decide that certain people are holy? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (19:29):
And then what's left of the real person once we've
made them holy? Yeah. We got into that a little
bit and two previous episodes where we talked about saints. Yeah,
so yeah, this is this topic probably has legs.
Speaker 3 (19:42):
All right. This next message comes from Kieran. Kieran says, Hi,
Joe and Rob, this is Kieran from New Zealand. With
all this talk of Wallace. This is in response in
part by the way to our episode episodes on Alfred
Russell Wallace and the Wallace line. Kieran says, with all
this talk of my mind immediately jumped to a potential
candidate for weird house cinema, and that is the fantastic
(20:05):
two thousand and six film called The Fall. In the film,
it features a fictional Wallace and his monkey sidekick named Darwin.
Now one quick note, I had I looked this movie up,
and Kieran, I don't. I hesitate to correct you because
you've seen the film and I haven't. But when I
looked it up, it seems to me like it might
be the other way around, that there's a Darwin character
(20:27):
with a monkey named Wallace. But again I haven't seen it,
so maybe there's something I'm missing. Anyway, Kieran continues Wallace
and Darwin feature and story in a story within the
story in the film, though not main characters. They play
an important part in the events of the imaginary story
featured in the film. It's honestly one of the most
visually beautiful films I've ever seen, A criminally underrated masterpiece
(20:50):
with plenty of interesting content to fulfill the weird house quota.
Is this by the same director of The Cell with
Jennifer Lopez and Vincent and Afrio.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
It absolutely is. Yes, Tarsian Tarsi singh. I think he
just goes by Tarsan. Yeah, and I have I have
seen The Fall. It's I have not seen it since
it came out. It had a young Lee Pace in
it before Lee Pace got completely ripped. A great actor.
Lipace a big fan and enjoying really enjoying him on
(21:24):
foundation of late. But yeah, the Fall, I remember, like
The Cell being just a you know, a visual treat,
but I don't remember much about the plot. It's just
been too long since i've seen it.
Speaker 3 (21:37):
Well, I'll have to check it out. Thanks for the recommendation, and.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
It's very possible we might come back and do The Cell. Yeah,
The Cell is one I do remember getting very excited
for when it came out, and and certainly the visuals
did not disappoint at the time.
Speaker 3 (21:53):
If I recall correctly, that was one of the movies
that Roger Ebert really went out on a limb for.
He was like, this is awesome. You've got to see it.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
Sure enough to sell four stars.
Speaker 3 (22:06):
All right, let's see. Karing goes on to say, one
of the things I also love about Weird House is
how both of you have an immense talent for unpacking
a film and succinctly describing its concepts and themes. Therefore,
another film I would love to hear given the Weird
House treatment is a childhood favorite of mine. It's Terry
Gilliams The Adventures of Baron Munchausen. Many consider this film
(22:29):
to be an utter folly in the gilliam film catalog,
but I have a serious soft spot for this one.
It too, can be considered visually to be a ravishing spectacle,
full of amazing practical effects, brilliant sets, puppetry, costumes, and
so much more that leaves one thinking, how on earth
did they manage to get all this shot? This must
(22:50):
have been a nightmare to film, which apparently it was.
There's also an interesting tension I am sure you would
both like between the black and white childhood idea of myth, imagination, heroism,
and fantasy, and the adult gray world of reason, rationality, bureaucracy,
political expediency, and so forth. I really feel you would
(23:11):
both do an excellent job at unpacking this film with
its warts and all, discussing its production, themes, story, and
the rollicking good time it truly is. Thanks so much
for your excellent show, your gifts for science communication, your
respect for differing worldviews, and your love of pop culture
always keeps the show fun. Keep up the good work, Yours, sincerely, Kieran. Well,
(23:32):
thank you so much for all the kind words. Kieran,
It's been a long time since I've seen Baron Munchausen.
I remember back when I saw it, I both found
it difficult to watch and also really respected it, and
I think I had that thought about it more than
one Terry Gilliam film. It was some Gillian films I
just straight up love, but this one I remember thinking
(23:56):
it had some parts that were not the most gripping,
but also it had a lot of just weird integrity,
strange performances, like when it like Robin William This plays
the Man in the Moon on it and he's so
weird in it, and yeah, I don't know, there's been
(24:16):
a lot that I've forgotten about it by this point,
but I would like to go back and revisit it totally.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
Yeah, we've never done a Terry Gilliam film for Weird
House Cinema, and it's of course he's on my mind
anytime we're coming up with selections. But I guess I
kind of have a certain amount of decision fatigue when
it comes to him, because he's made so many iconically
weird films like do I go with Brazil? Do I
go with Time Bandits? Do I go with this selection?
(24:43):
Do I maybe go a little further back, or do
I know, take a chance on one of the more
recent pictures, you know, because there's going to be something.
He's one of those directors where even in his quote
unquote lesser works, there's going to be something to talk about.
There's going to be some nugget of absolute gold in there.
So yeah, for that reason, never actually selected something from
(25:04):
his filmography. Jabberwakee, that's another one.
Speaker 3 (25:08):
I saw that one when I was way too young.
I did not I did not fully get the vision
I think at the time. But yeah, I think when
I saw that, I had also seen Monty Python in
The Holy Grail when I was really too young to
have seen that, and I was like, I just wanted
another movie like that, and Jabberwaukee was like weirder than
what I was bargaining for.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
Yeah, I mean, when you talk about the vision with
Terry Gilliam, it's always a mad vision, So I think
it's always going to be a little bit challenging one
way or another.
Speaker 3 (25:38):
All Right, you want to do some straight up weird
house messages.
Speaker 2 (25:41):
Sure, Sure, let's see what do we have here. This
one comes to us from Scott subject line mor Locke perspective.
This is, of course a response to our episode on
the nineteen sixty film adaptation of The Time Machine. Hi,
Robert Joe. You'll doubtless here from many people on this,
(26:03):
but there is a story of the time traveler's adventures
from the Morlocks perspective. David Lake's nineteen eighty one novel
The Man Who Loved Morlocks. It's been a while since
I read it, but must confess it didn't seem highly memorable,
in part because the Morlocks weren't presented as sufficiently alien
in their psychology and culture as I would have expected
from post humans after eight hundred thousand years of evolution. Instead,
(26:26):
they seem more or less like very normal human beings
who had simply been misunderstood by a plundering traveler. But
perhaps other readers have different and more positive reviews.
Speaker 3 (26:36):
Scott, Yeah, you know, I'm actually of two minds about
the idea of taking, you know, doing a whole treatment
of a story where you flip the hero villain dynamic.
You know, there's like that classic example we've talked about
on the show before. I've actually not read this novel,
but there's that famous take on Lord of the Rings
(26:56):
which flips it all around, which is like from the
Orc's perspective, and the org are actually like nice people
who are just like trying to live in peace, and
they are being brutally assaulted by the wizards and the elves,
and so it's the kind of thing where that can
be really interesting if you have an interesting take on it.
But it could also be too easy, right you could
(27:18):
just say, like I'm just gonna flip everything and then
maybe not bring a lot of imagination to it. It
literally is just flipping everything. I'm not acute, by the way,
I haven't read this book, so I'm not accusing David
Lake of doing that. I don't have an opinion on it,
but I can see how a hero hero villain flipping
novel could easily be actually kind of unremarkable or uninteresting.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
Yeah, you would have to play it just right, and
and they're different. It also comes down to like, exactly
what sort of story are you trying to tell? What
sort of points are you trying to make about the
more locks or or the other factions or characters in
the narrative. So yeah, yeah, I was not familiar with
this book though, or really this particular author. I noticed
that he also wrote another book, The Truth about Weena,
(28:03):
from nineteen ninety eight.
Speaker 3 (28:06):
I wonder if that's a Is that a sequel to the.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
I guess so, or at least it's you know, it's
within the time Machine universe.
Speaker 3 (28:13):
Yeah, yeah, I may have already said this a minute ago,
But the more I'm thinking about it, the more it's
just like, for a story to work this way, you
have to find some way to make it original. It
can't just be the same story. But actually the bad
guys are the good guys, you know, it would need
to bring something new or creative.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
Yeah, I mean, we can all think of stellar examples
of this. For example, one that we've mentioned on the
show many times is John Gardner's Grindle, which tells the
story of Bailwil from the monstrous perspective. But yeah, like
that's an excellent treatment, an excellent use of this basic
flip the script method. So not every not every flipping
(28:50):
of the script is going to be as good as Grindle.
Speaker 3 (28:53):
And it's basically a new story. It's yeah, just yeah,
all right. This next message is from Matt subject line
of Vertue. Hey, Robin, Joe, Matt here, just listen to
your Vault episode on Black Sabbath. And I was wondering
if you have seen the twenty twenty three Oh, by
(29:14):
the way, that's the Mario Bava film Black Sabbath, not
the band, though the band got their name from the
title of the film, seeing it on a marquee, but yes,
let's see, Matt says, I was wondering if you have
seen the twenty twenty three French horror film The Verduolac,
directed by Adrian bo. It is a weird and creepy
new adaptation of Alexei Tolstoy's story. I loved the Black
(29:38):
Sabbath vignette, but it's interesting to see the story through
the lens of a modern filmmaker. I was particularly weirded
out by the use of vampire folklore regarding the chewing
of garments on a different Black Sabbath topic. I have
seen two different versions, both of which I believe were
dubbed into English. It's been some years since I watched it,
but I think the alternate version of the telephone, which
(30:00):
is one of the segments in the movie, the more
jallowy one with less supernatural elements. Matt says it removed
all reference to lesbian relationships and had the phone calls
coming from the main character's dead husband. I imagine that
would be the American International Pictures release. Anyway, I love
the show and look forward to future episodes. Matt oh Man,
(30:23):
I can't imagine a bowdlerized version of Black Sabbath. That
seems wrong.
Speaker 2 (30:28):
Yeah. Absolutely. Now, as for this twenty twenty three film, yes, well, no,
no one. Yes, no, I have not seen it, but yes,
I'm familiar with it because this one has been eyeing
me from the shelves at Video Drum here in Atlanta
for a while. It looks like a unique treatment on
(30:48):
the vampire legend with live action and what I believe
puppetry or stop motion, one or both of the two
used to depict the titular monster.
Speaker 3 (30:58):
I have not seen it, but I'm very interested. JJ
has seen it, by the way. I remembered that because
he had brought it up with me in the past.
But JJ just confirmed he thinks it would be a
good weird house movie. So that's a couple of votes
in its favor.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
Excellent, all right. The next one comes to us from
Doug and in this one, he's writing in response to
our Weird House Cinema episode on Willy Wonka and the
Chocolate Factory. He says, cap this podcast on a whim
and absolutely loved it. Willy Wonka in the Chocolate Factory
(31:33):
is one of my most favorite films. I used to
torture my children with on movie nights. They're all grown now,
and I hope to share it with the grandkids someday.
And although the film is over fifty years old, it
seems much of its content is still relatable. Candy and
imagination never go out of style. The over the top
performance of Gene Wilder and the dream like songs are
(31:53):
timeless masterpieces. This is one of the few movies I
keep on DVD to have accessible. Hopefully we don't lose
DVD players too, so.
Speaker 3 (32:00):
The market for them is has already greatly narrowed. But
you can still, to my relief, watch films on disc
and you can still get new players. I hope that's
something that comes back. I hope we just haven't like
given up and let the streamers fully win.
Speaker 2 (32:17):
No, absolutely, and I think once I think most of
you are beginning to realize, if you're not already one
hundred percent on board of this already, that having access
to physical media means you have access to your media
that you can count on long term. And that's why
if you have some sort of a video store in
your cities, like certainly support and chaerish it because there
(32:39):
can and and beyond that as well also your libraries,
whatever disks are available to your libraries. This this is
absolutely worth worth supporting and getting behind, because yeah, otherwise
it's just completely up in the air, like, well, will
this film be available streaming next week, next month? You
don't know, And then if it is, what version will
it be in what voices in the world might influence
(33:04):
what cut of a film you get to see later on.
So yeah, these are all excellent reasons to look after
your films and make sure you have access to them,
to them the way you want them.
Speaker 3 (33:15):
Yeah. Here here by the way, if you want to
write in and let us know about your local video
rental store. If you've got something like a video drome
or like a future shock video in your hometown and
you want to write in and tell us about it
what you love about it, please do contact at stuff
to Blow your Mind dot com.
Speaker 2 (33:32):
Absolutely anyway. Doug continues here and says, when Charlie and
the Chocolate Factory came out, I was excited to see
a modernization of Willy Wonka, Tim Burton and Johnny Depp.
What a perfect combination.
Speaker 3 (33:45):
Or was it?
Speaker 2 (33:46):
I don't know. It was filled with imagination and depths
over the top performance, but it lacked the connection with
the audience, and maybe I wasn't the right audience. I
don't know. It never connected with me. Thank you so
much for the imaginative distraction. It was fun going down
the road today, Doug. Yeah, it sounds like Doug was
pretty much in the same boat as we were with
the Tim Burton Willy Wonka picture. Like, you know, was
(34:09):
it creative that certainly that it has some really neat
sets and costumes and so forth. Yeah, absolutely, But yeah,
I can also say it didn't really stick with me
in the same way that the original did.
Speaker 3 (34:23):
Yeah. Yeah, I mean I can totally love a Burton
depth collab. I mean, the movie ed Wood is a
long time one of my favorites. This is great, but yeah,
this one never never looked like something I could endure.
All right, This next message is from Bert. Oh I
didn't check to see Is this the same bird as
our previous Burt message or a different Bert. I'm not sure,
(34:45):
but this is also about Charlie and the Chocolate Factory,
or actually it's about Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory
because it's the movie. Bert says, there was so much
I wanted to say as you went through the movie,
but I was driving and couldn't take notes. So Bert,
I'm glad you didn't, so I will limit myself to
(35:07):
two observations. First, I think all of the children actually
suffer from the same problem obsession. Augustas Gloup is obsessed
with food, Veruk Assault is obsessed with herself, Violet Beauregard
is obsessed with gum Man gum That is a pretty
narrow obsession, and Mike TV is obsessed with TV only
(35:27):
Charlie doesn't have any obsessions. The second observation I'd like
to make is I love your take on Willy Wonka
as a proto supernatural character, possibly with supernatural enemies, he
has to contend with sort of a mister Rourke of
the candy world. I think that's referring to the Ricardo
Montlebond character on Fantasy Island who can make your fantasies
(35:49):
come true, has a supernatural kind of quality, a mister
Rourke of the candy world. Just as we eventually learned
that mister Rourke is a direct opponent of Satan, we
could possibly learned that in the future that Slugworth is
actually the Evil County counterpart to Willy Wonka. Oh, like
a demonic candy maker of the rival company. Yeah, I
(36:11):
guess not the Slugworth we see in the movie, because
that was a counterfeit slug Worth that was actually a
servant of the Lord opposing as a demon. But Bert
finishes by saying I'm not an author, but I may
have to try to write that story.
Speaker 2 (36:25):
Bert.
Speaker 3 (36:25):
Go for it, man, Yeah, nothing to stop you.
Speaker 2 (36:29):
Slug Worth does show up in the recent Wonka film,
twenty twenty three's Wonka. Oh, and you know they don't
really play up the magical mystical aspects of this character,
but he is played by the excellent Patterson Joseph. So again,
you know, I wouldn't say that twenty twenty three's Wonka
is on the same level as the original Willy Wonka
(36:50):
picture for me personally, but I thought it was a
lot of fun.
Speaker 3 (36:53):
I haven't seen it, can't comment.
Speaker 2 (36:55):
All right, This next one comes to us from Amy,
and this one is going to be a correction. And
I just want to note here that JJ and I
have already gone back to our episode and plugged in
a little note about this. So the correction is also
present in the Weird House Cinema episode moving forward. So
(37:18):
Amy says, hi, guys, I listened to you every single morning,
and I was delighted to hear you do WILLI walcome
the chocolate factory on Weird House? And I never want
to be a nitpicker, but I wanted to let you
know before you get the will actually people talking about
Gene Wilder, you mentioned Blazing Saddles best comedy ever and
said it quote would lead to four more films with
Richard Pryor. Richard Pryor was set to star in Blazing Saddles,
(37:41):
but he was too spicy for the producers. Cleveland Little
replaced him and hit it out of the park. Thank
you for attending Mike cleveland Little fan Club meeting. Love
you guys.
Speaker 3 (37:51):
Amy. Yeah, so, I did not know that Richard Pryor
had been in the running to play the lead in
Blazing Saddles. He was one of the screenwriters on the movie,
but apparently he was also Melbrooks's original choice to play
the lead the character of bart. Brooks himself has claimed
in multiple accounts that even though he wanted prior for
the role, the executives at Warner Brothers would not allow
(38:13):
it because they said he was uninsurable due to previous
drug arrests. I don't know if that story is true.
It had like it's never been confirmed by anybody on
the Warner Brothers side, but that's what Melbrooks always said.
Though apparently after he was ruled out for the role,
prior did recommend Cleveland Little.
Speaker 2 (38:29):
For the role. Yeah, yeah, and true enough, he's great
in it. Yeah, real quick. I want to throw in
a note here that, of course, the Willywalk episode of
Weird House I dedicated to my mom, who had passed
away the month before. A number of you heard that
and wrote in with some very nice comments, and I
just want to just want to say I appreciate it.
All right, Joe, I'm going to pass it back to you.
(38:50):
Here we have an excellent one from Lindsay here. Lindsay's
listener mail writing is kind of like a work of poetry,
a little stream of consciousness.
Speaker 3 (38:58):
Here Lindsey says, hey, y'all think about Grizzly too. Weird
stuff around it. Shot in nineteen eighty three, finally released
in twenty twenty. Shot in Hungary, portraying a nineteen eighty
three music festival in a US national park. Evil promoter
(39:19):
played by Louise Fletcher, very young, George Clooney, Charlie Sheen,
Laura Dern, John ry S Davies as a French frontier trapper,
bad accent, fringe, buckskin single shot twelve Gage with native decorations,
A bunch of other eighties character actor names awful film errors,
showing a cartridge flying as a bullet kickstarting an entirely
(39:42):
different motorcycle from when he was riding National Park jeep
with government plates, several brit bands, and what I think
was a Hungarian rock band singing in Hungarian. I have
a pretty high tolerance for weird, but this one was
off the charts. Has to be a twisted story behind it,
somewhere right on Lindsey WHOA.
Speaker 2 (40:05):
Will color me intrigued interested putting it on the list exactly?
All right? Here's another one. This one comes to us
from Ian and says, dear Robin Joe, I wanted to
write in to suggest a movie for weird house Cinema,
The Adventures of Buckeroo Bonzai Across the Eighth Dimension. Somehow
I had managed to never hear of this movie, despite
being a child of the eighties and it apparently being
(40:27):
a cult classic from that era, until my wife and
I stumbled across it on Amazon Prime the other day,
and boy was it a treat. You have Peter Weller
and Jeff Goldbloom battling rubber suit aliens from another dimension
led by an evil John Lithgow It's campy and janki
and borderline nonsensical, and a joy from the start to
the finish. The one thing that disappointed me about the
(40:48):
movie was that the sequel promised and the credits never materialized.
Though Buckeroo Bonzai against the World of Crime does sound
like a step down from fighting trans dimensional aliens, that
travesty aside. I would love to hear y'all discuss it.
Your thoughts are always a treat. Thanks for the great show,
Ian I.
Speaker 3 (41:05):
This is a wonderful suggestion. John Smallberry's must be heard.
Speaker 2 (41:10):
And I also have to say I do in general
love love slash hate it. It's a it's a mix
of feelings. When you have a film set up a
sequel that sounds really cool and it never happens, Yeah
every time. It's like when you do that, you create
an alternate timeline where that movie exists and we can
only dream what ourselves are like in that timeline.
Speaker 3 (41:32):
Can I can I offer a counter opinion though this
maybe this is the love half of your love hate
relationship with this. I have come, as I've gotten older,
more and more to appreciate all the different varieties of
something leaving you wanting more. I think that's actually a
good thing. And I when I was younger, I would
be more inclined to be upset that there could have
(41:55):
been more that we didn't get, and now to kind
of feel positive, feel kind of like love and gratefulness
when all there is is enough to make me want
more instead of there being more that isn't what I want.
Speaker 2 (42:09):
Yeah, yeah, I mean that's isn't that always the case
with life? Right?
Speaker 3 (42:12):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (42:13):
We have to have to be glad that it happened,
not sad that it's over, and so forth, be happy
with the film you got, and yeah, be be glad
that it left while people were still wanting it to stay.
But of course the counter argument there is, oh, well,
I guess you didn't need aliens. I guess you didn't
need terminator too. I guess you didn't need scanners to
(42:36):
Well maybe we didn't need scanners too, But at any rate,
there needed scanner cop We did did we do We
didn't do scanner cop?
Speaker 3 (42:43):
No, we didn't do it. On the show I said
we needed scanner, we.
Speaker 2 (42:46):
Needed scanner cop and scanners too. Was the the the
the the bridge? So yeah, I mean it all works
out in the wash for.
Speaker 3 (42:56):
Sure, all right, Well, so you want me to do
this last one from Jeff? Sure, all right, Jeff says
a subject line bad to the Bones, and note, by
the way, this came up probably in response to our
episode on Sinbad and the Eye of the Tiger, because
it's about Ray Harry Housen. That movie has a bunch
of great stop motion effects by Ray Harry Housen, including
(43:18):
some skeleton ghouls which are raised up out of a
bonfire by the Witch Queens and Obia. They're sent to
destroy Sindbad, which leads to a cool sword fight scene.
Sinbad has to think quick and find a way to
destroy the skeletons, which are impervious to being stabbed obviously
because they're kind of skeletons. And I think that sent
us on a good tangent about skeleton warriors and various
(43:39):
things you always end up finding some in your D
and D. Right, Yeah, well that's exactly what this emails about.
Jeff says, greetings, Joe and Rob, regarding the recent discussion
of Clackety Harry House and skeletons. In my first D
and D campaign as a kid, we received a standard
(44:00):
issue in assigned mission to collect a magical something or
other from a nearby dungeon. We had spent days creating
characters with cool powers like talking to squirrels and creating
sparkly light shows, but we didn't pay enough attention to
including the required party beefcake Rob. Is this a standard
D and D term or is this is this a
(44:20):
Jeff ism here? I assume Jeff is referring to like
a tank character or something.
Speaker 2 (44:27):
Ah, yeah, this is not terminology we use at our table,
but my table is not exactly maybe a great snapshot
of what all gamers are doing and talking about.
Speaker 3 (44:37):
Yeah, anyway, what I could be wrong, but what I
imagine Jeff means there is like, yes, a damage dealing
and absorbing character, a fighter or something. Yeah yeah, tank, yeah,
Jeff says. By the time we got to the dungeon entrance,
we had already had the crap kicked out of us
by some dumb creatures who were not impressed with ventriloquism
(44:57):
or the ability to pick pockets.
Speaker 2 (44:59):
Some low roll.
Speaker 3 (45:00):
Yeah. As we approached, a bunch of skeletons came charging
out at us like ants from a disturbed ant hill.
The cleric, happy to finally get something fun to do
did a turn undead on them, but due to our
low level, it didn't destroy them, but it did make
them flee, and for the first time none of us
(45:20):
got hurt. Rob Can you do a quick Encyclopedia entry
on turn undead? That's it's a cleric ability.
Speaker 2 (45:28):
Yes, yes, we have pretty standard ability of good holy
characters to just make lower level undead, you know, drop
and run or drop. In general, it can and at
some point it can ramp up to being destroyed undead.
I never play a cleric though, so I don't have
a lot of like hands on experience with it.
Speaker 3 (45:49):
But so, like the standard effect is that you get
some zombies or skeletons or whatever, you do turn undead
on them and they like drop their weapons and run away.
Speaker 2 (45:58):
Yeah you can do, yeah they run away, or again
you just destroy them, like, yeah, they just can't stand
against the Cross or the Pentagram or whatever kind of
holy item and deity you represent.
Speaker 3 (46:10):
Okay, Jeff goes on. We discovered the dungeon was infested
with skeletons, so we worked out a plan to quietly enter,
make a bunch of noise, run screaming back outside to
draw out the skeletons, have the cleric turn them and repeat.
Because turn on dead was an ability and not a spell,
we could do that all day, which we did so,
(46:31):
meaning you have a limited number of spell slots that
you would use up if it were a spell, but
it's not like that. You can just keep doing it
over and over. And I like this because this is
like a video game cheese strategy, but you're doing it
in a tabletop setting, which Finn, you know, when I'm
playing like a single player video game, I do. I
(46:52):
don't know if I want to admit this, but I
often find myself just figuring out little like cheese strategies,
like how do I get the enemies to just funnel
into like a near corridor where I can fight them
more easily, And you know that just happens. Sometimes you
find your way into like trying to find easier ways
to get through encounters, even if it's not what the
game developers probably intended, because they wanted you to have
(47:14):
a more kind of like challenging and thrilling way of
getting through. I don't know, we just tend to want
to find an easier way to do something.
Speaker 2 (47:21):
I guess it works in real life exactly. Of course,
we're going to solve problems in a virtual world the
same way.
Speaker 3 (47:28):
But I don't really have that problem in tabletop ore like,
I'm not usually looking for a cheese strategy when I'm
playing D and D with my friends.
Speaker 2 (47:35):
Well, D and D is special, and by DND, I'm
just referring to all social role playing games like this
and that it is social. So on one hand, you
are trying to beat, defeat an enemy, or overcome a
particular challenger in an and or system, but you're also
in theory and hopefully trying to collectively tell a really
(47:57):
good story with your friends. So if you go just
total cheese mode, you might be ignoring the storytelling or
ignoring the friends, the latter being the worse of the
two to ignore. So yeah, it has to be just
the right balance.
Speaker 3 (48:14):
So Jeff goes on to explain the result of this
turn on dead cheese strategy. We were then able to
move through the dungeons slowly and cautiously, on the lookout
for traps and curses, without constant fear of attack and
completely lacking in dramatic tension. There you go. We eventually
found the loot and headed back for our reward. If
you've ever DMD a party of rule hacking players like that,
(48:36):
you can probably see where this is going. We got
back to town, which was in chaos and burning to
the ground as the civilians had been slaughtered by wave
after wave of violent skeletons who had been driven from
their home looking for revenge on the living. So we
didn't get the reward or very many experience points, but
we did certainly gain real life wisdom from an experience.
(48:57):
Don't f with the module there you go. I mean,
I think that's exactly what you were saying. Ron getting
in the way of the spirit of the storytelling sometimes exerts.
Sometimes it invites a kind of karmic reaction from the DM.
Speaker 2 (49:12):
Yeah, but I mean, I don't know, it's like it's
totally about the table and what the whole vibe is.
Like maybe that's exactly what needs to be happened. And
it was the greatest gaming experience of all time for
everybody because that's what they were in the mood for.
So there's you know, there's no ones that way that
it needs to be for everybody.
Speaker 3 (49:29):
Yeah, and then Jeff has a very nice note at
the end. Jeff says on a personal note, I wanted
to extend my deepest sympathies to Rob in his time
of loss. We all owe his mother a great debt,
both for taking on one of the world's most important
occupations referring to teaching, and for raising Rob, whose hard
work does so much to soothe people going through tough
(49:49):
times or just trying to make their way through the
daily grind. Props to mom for making the world a
better place.
Speaker 2 (49:55):
Jeff, Oh, thank you, Jeff, that's very sweet.
Speaker 3 (49:58):
I appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (49:59):
And again heard from numerous other listeners out there, and
you know I appreciate all your kind words. All right, Well,
at this point, I guess it's time to go ahead
and close up the old mailbag for today, but we
will be back later. Once again, we are on the
cusp of diving into October. I know it, we're only
(50:20):
halfway through September, but that's where we are. It's about
to be October everyone, So that's going to be all
sorts of cool October topics, October weird house cinema selections.
On that note, like, we're putting together the list now,
so if you are just really gung ho for a
particular October weird House cinema selection, or certainly a particular
(50:42):
core episode of stuff to blow your mind or things
to feature on the Monster fact or the artifact. Now
is definitely the time to go ahead and start pestering
us with those suggestions, because we're putting the list together
right now.
Speaker 3 (50:54):
Can I say what the October weird house vibe is?
I think, without us ever making this explain or doing
this on purpose, I think during October we lean more
toward classic supernatural horror more so than we do in
other times of the year, where we might go more
kind of sci fi or fantasy, or throughout the rest
(51:16):
of the year. I feel like it's more common that
the horror we do has a kind of sci fi
flavor to it, or might be one of these other
subgenres body horror or something like that. But in October
that's the time for like witches and ghosts and vampires,
that sort of thing. Do you have the same feeling, Yeah?
Speaker 2 (51:33):
Yeah, And it's again, we don't have like a list
that we check off physically every time, but that does
seem to be how it works out.
Speaker 3 (51:41):
Yeah, yeah, So we're not trying to be rigid about that.
But I think that is the general vibe if y'all
are making suggestions, which again are totally welcome.
Speaker 2 (51:50):
Definitely a time for gothic car that's for sure.
Speaker 3 (51:52):
Yeah, especially if it's gothic horror that gets really weird.
That's a sweet spot.
Speaker 2 (51:57):
Yeah, we'll inevitably do a film that has one of
the big names of horror films of yesteryear, like a
Vincent Price or Christopher Lee or Cushing and so forth.
So certainly if there's a film featuring any of those individuals, like, yeah,
let us know which one you think should be on
our play. Just a reminder to everyone out there that
Stuff to Blow Your Mind is primarily a science and
(52:18):
culture podcast. Core episodes in Tuesdays and Thursdays, short form
episodes on Wednesdays and on Fridays. That's the time to
set aside most serious concerns and just talk about a
weird film on Weird House Cinema.
Speaker 3 (52:28):
Huge thanks as always to our excellent audio producer JJ Posway.
If you would like to get in touch with us
with feedback on this episode or any other, to suggest
a topic for the future, or just to say hello,
you can email us at contact at Stuff to Blow
your Mind dot com.
Speaker 1 (52:49):
Stuff to Blow Your Mind is production of iHeartRadio. For
more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, a production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Hey you welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind listener Mail.
My name is Robert Lamb.
Speaker 3 (00:15):
And I am Joe McCormick. And on listener Mail episodes,
we read back some of the messages that you have
sent into the Stuff to Blow your Mind email address.
If you've never gotten in touch before and you would
like to, why not give it a try this week?
You can write us at contact at stuff to Blow
your Mind dot com. We appreciate messages of all types,
(00:36):
especially if you have something to add to a topic
we've recently talked about on the show. If you have
just something interesting you want to share with us, whether
even if it's totally random, that's always fine. If you
have corrections, if you have comments, if you have questions,
if you want to suggest a topic for the future,
or suggest a movie for Weird House Cinema, whatever it is,
(00:57):
send it our way contact at stuff to Blow your
dot com. And if you write in, there is a
chance that your message may be featured on a future
listener Mail episode like this one.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
That's right, We read all of it. We don't always
have time to respond directly to it and not everything
gets onto the podcast, obviously, but we will read anything
you said us.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
A very weird house heavy batch this time, which is fine,
so be it. But I think first maybe we should
get into some responses to our episodes of Star Trek Week.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
That's right, We're just coming off of Star Trek Week,
the first Star Trek Week celebrated here on stuff to
blow your mind. But if folks loved it, we'll come
back and do it again next year.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
All right, rob do you mind if I do this
one from Elena?
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Yes, Elena, that you do mind? Well, I do mind,
but I'm swallowing my feelings on this one.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
Right, Okay, This is from Elena. Subject line Turkish Star Trek. Hello,
Robert and Joe. I just listened to the episode about
the Star Trek Salt Monster, one of the most memorable
monster designs in the show in my opinion, and the
(02:11):
creepy moths. This is referencing the first of two core
episodes we did during Star Trek Week, where we talked
about the first ever episode of Star Trek, the first
one ever on TV called The Man Trap, which was
about a salt vampire, a shape shifting creature that sucked
the salt out of your body through with like suckers
that attached to the face, and that, of course led
(02:34):
us to a biology conversation about moths that in various
ways will parasitize you for salt, will suck salt from
your tears or even from your blood. So Elena goes
on to say it immediately reminded me of oh Mayer
the Tourist in Star Trek, a nineteen seventy three Turkish film.
It's a parody movie that takes major plot inspiration from
(02:56):
the Man Trap episode years ago. I managed to watch
it with English subtitles and it was a fun experience.
I also recall scenes borrowed from other notable episodes, like
a fight scene between Kirk and what was supposed to
be the Gorn Rob. I dug up some screenshots from
Omer the Tourist in Star Trek. I attached them in
the outline for you to see. Here, we have a
(03:20):
I think this is supposed to be Spock in a
yellow shirt, but he does have the pointy years in
Spock's hair, so I think that's him. We got some
like muscly shirtless guy in a speedo. I don't know
what that's supposed to be. The poster appears to have
Godzilla on it. I don't know if that's a mashup
of Godzilla and Gorn.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
Yeah, some sort of fire breathing reptile.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
And also some characters standing around in what might be
Roman ruins that they're using as a set here. Yeah, yeah,
that's an interesting choice. But also having some Star Trek
uniforms in colors that I don't remember from the show,
like we've got a you know, you've got your red
shirts and you've got your yellow shirts. Here we have
a brown shirt and then kind of a teal green skirt.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, this looks interesting. I have to
admit this one was not on my radar. I'm familiar
by reputation with like Turkish Star Wars and some other
b cinema examples from Turkish film, and there are a
few Turkish movies that are still on the list for
(04:24):
Weird House Cinema. Oh yeah, but we haven't really gotten
around to them just yet. We'll have to remedy that
in the months ahead.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
Elena says. Since it was released before Star Trek the
Motion Picture, it's technically the first movie set in the
Star Trek universe. Amazing. This is probably too strange even
for weird house cinema. Oh, Elena, you should listen this Friday,
by the way, but I wanted to share this oddity
from Turkish cinema anyway, Elena.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
This is exactly the sort of weird house cinema listener
mail I like to receive. Yeah, clue me in about
something weird out there that was totally not on my radar.
Speaker 3 (04:59):
Exactly. Thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
All right. We also heard from Jared Jared Wrightson and
says thank you for Star Trek week. Listening to the
episodes really brought back memories of sitting around the TV
watching Star Trek with my dad, both the original series
and the next generation. Sadly, he passed away due to
complications of COVID in twenty twenty, but this week's episode
brought back some great memories of him. My dad was
a diehard Trekie, so much so that I did not
(05:24):
watch a Star Wars movie until I was an adult,
as it was considered not as good in our house.
I think his love for Star Trek was influenced by
his love of other non sci fi shows such as
westerns and cereals. Such as Bonanza and gun Smoke. Something
about the portrayal of flawed characters coming together to do
what was right struck a chord with him and for me,
(05:45):
really formed a perspective on life that I did not
fully recognize until adulthood. As an adult, I have learned
what a cultural stepping stone Star Trek truly was, and
knowing when and where my father grew up in rural Appalachia,
watching shows like Star Trek would have been considered progressive
for the time and place, with different ethnicities being portrayed
and given rank and importance on the crew. Star Trek's
(06:07):
decision to step in that direction help the generation of
TV watchers become more accepting of others, even if they
were aliens. Thanks again, Live Long and prosper Jared.
Speaker 3 (06:16):
Yeah, I think this is a common reception experience that
the people report, even outside of not just being in
rural Appalachia, I mean all over.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
I think, yeah, absolutely. And also the connection to Westerns
is definitely worth noting as well. I don't know how
much we stress that in our episodes during Star Trek Week,
but Star Trek does come out of the world of
TV Westerns in many respects. I mean a lot of
the players, of course, were in westerns. Many of the
Riders had worked in westerns, and a good bit of
(06:46):
that Western DNA as president in the show.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
I think you can say that about Star Wars as well.
I mean, yeah, yeah, some ways, it's got some gunslinger
stuff in there.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
I mean, really, the TV and film westerns cap a
huge shadow. I mean, you hear folks like John Carpenter
for instance, Yeah, you know, very few of his films
are one hundred percent Westerns. I think he has like
what one full blown Western in the filmography, but he
credits Westerns like across his filmography for being a heavy
(07:17):
influence on at least the sort of the form and
function of the pictures.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
That's right. I think for a lot of the directors
working in roughly that generation growing up with Westerns, it
was just it was an influence on all of them,
even if it wasn't totally their thing. So it's kind
of like, even if you're not a diehard Star Wars
or Star Trek fan, you know, most people making films
coming up nowadays have some of that influence on their childhood,
(07:42):
right right, all right. This next message is from Bert
Bert says, Hey, Robert and Joe love the show. It
keeps the long drives between job sites interesting. If you
think I have some worthwhile thoughts here, I'd be honored
if you include it in one of your listener mail episodes.
(08:02):
I was listening to the Transporters and Consciousness Star Trek
episode and I thought that the swamp Man thought experiment
was interesting but flawed. A quick refresher. This is the
thought experiment by the philosopher Donald Davidson, which was saying, Okay,
imagine I go out walking in a swamp. I get
struck by lightning. My body is completely obliterated, there's nothing left,
(08:24):
and just by coincidence, a tree nearby is also struck
by lightning, and it gets turned into an exact atom
for Adam replica of my body, and it can go
about my business and do everything I do. It acts
exactly as I would in every scenario. It's a perfect
copy of me. But Davidson's argument was, despite the fact
that swamp man is a perfect copy of me and
(08:47):
can behave exactly as I would, it actually does not
have thoughts and the signifiers of its mental activity that
it thinks, you know when it thinks about a dog.
This is not really about adult because it has never
met a dog. So it was interrogating the idea of
what the aboutness of our thoughts really is. So Bert's
(09:09):
response continues, the Swampman copy might never have experienced a
dog or the original version's friend John, but it has
all of the memories from the original. It has the
memories of the experience, the memories of interactions with other minds,
the memories of petting the dog. It has the knowledge
and the feeling of what the experiences were like. Without
(09:31):
that knowledge, it would not have the image or concept
of what a dog or a friend is. So the
recreated Swampman or Spock or McCoy is created a thinking
being with the full knowledge and experience of what the
original new and experienced. Yeah, Bert, I think this is
a common response, and this is what a lot of
Davidson's critics would argue. And this is sort of along
(09:51):
the lines of what Daniel Dinnett was arguing in response
to the idea. But Bert goes on to say, there
is a second flaw. If this Sampman did not have
the connections to understand what a dog or a friend
or a coffee cup is then he would not be
able to speak intelligently. He might call a dog a rocket,
or a friend a dandelion, but it's extremely unlikely he
(10:13):
could formulate a legible sentence. I think Davidson and Dinnett
we're both off the mark on this one. Both Davidson,
Swampman and Dinnet's objections to it are much more applicable
to large language model ais. An AI can be programmed
with definitions and with photos describing to it what things are,
but it will have no actual experience, not even secondhand experience.
(10:37):
It can know, but until it actually has the experience,
it cannot truly understand. But as Dinnet points out, if
it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and
looks like a duck, most people would say it's a duck,
which changes the question from is an AI thinking before
it experiences? To are there any differences between what an
(10:59):
aides before it experiences and what it does after? It
also adds the question if there are, do the differences matter?
That's probably more than long enough for one email. Hope
you found it interesting, bert.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
Oh, Yes, absolutely, thanks for writing in Bertie. We touched
on how this philosophical discussion may or may not apply
to AI a little bit in the episode, but you know, clearly,
as you point out here, you can really go into
the deep end on this one as well.
Speaker 3 (11:29):
Yeah, I think this is actually a very good question. Clearly,
we learn from experience, and is there some quality, some
important quality to the nature of our experience which enables
us to learn and understand which cannot really be achieved
by feeding a machine like discrete, separate little images that
(11:54):
are not actually part of a continuous experience like we
believe we have so like our experience of seeing and
interacting with dogs throughout our life, is there something actually
importantly different about that than just like having a large
language model associate the word dog and other words in
a cloud around the word dog with lots, you know,
(12:16):
millions of different pictures of dogs. Is there actually something
importantly different there in those two different kinds of learning.
I don't know exactly what it would be, but it
strikes me as totally plausible that there's something important missing
that contributes to what we mean when we say understanding
that's missing from the training model of these AIS, but
(12:38):
is present in the human beings experience of the world.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
Yeah, absolutely, I mean we have skin in the game,
and there are different ways to interpret how that applies.
All right, up, next we go. We got a very
nice email from Alec, who writes in and says, Hi,
Robert Joe at all. My name is Olt. I'm a
(13:04):
grad student at U Chicago studying the evolution and mechanics
of the mammal middle ear. I am defending later this
fall and have been doing a lot of reflecting on
the things that have kept my love of science alive,
and thus wanted to extend my deep gratitude for your show.
I have been listening since I was an undergrad, and
your topics and the way you approach your topics, particularly
(13:25):
your deep dives into how fictional organisms would function based
on real biology, have always kept my basic curiosity and
need to learn alive, even against grad school burnout. I
don't think it is an exaggeration to say the stuff
to Blow your mind podcast has played a pivotal role
in my development as a scientist. Thank you for the
great work you do. Cheers Alec. At ps. Have you
(13:47):
considered an episode on why elves, vulcans, etc. Have powenty
years from the folklore perspective. Where does that originate from
a biological perspective? What's the adaptive significance?
Speaker 3 (13:58):
Great questions? Has this come up on the show before?
I would be surprised if it hadn't.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
I was actually researching this a little bit prior to
Star Trek week because I was considering it as a topic.
So may come back to this sooner rather than later.
Speaker 3 (14:13):
But also, Alex, thank you so much for the message.
This kind of stuff, it feels so nice, warms my heart. It. Yeah,
it really really does mean a lot to hear things
like this, So thank you so much, and best of
luck with your thesis or dissertation defense. All right, this
(14:37):
next message, let's do some of the responses to our
Saint Swithin episode. This one comes from Francois subject line
about Saint Swithin's revenge and apologies in advance. I'm gonna
have to read some French in this one. My pronunciation,
I'm sure is going to be abysmal, but I'll do
my best, Francois says, Dear Robert and Joe, I just
(14:59):
listened to your podcas cast about Saint Swithin, and when
you read the saying Saint Swithin's day. If thou dost
reign for forty days, it will remain Saint Swithin's day.
If thou be fair for forty days, twill reign ne
mere and Francois says, I thought, oh, it is an
Irish Saint Medard. Imagine my delight when you referenced our
(15:22):
Saint Medard. This is easily the second most used meteorological
saying in France. However, the version you used is different
from the one I know, and because I heard it
multiple times on TV, it is the official version. It
says see plu a la Saint Medard il pluvera forty
jour plutard a muang ke la sam Barnabie luis coup
(15:46):
le erb sioux lapide and so Francois here has a translation,
which is, if it rains on Saint Medardas day, it
will rain forty days later, unless Saint Barnabas pulls the
r from below his feet, literally cuts the grass beneath
his feet. Francois says, this side steps the issue of
(16:09):
forty days of uninterrupted rain. Oh yeah, as we discussed
in the episode, that that's totally very implausible and that's
basically never gonna happen. It side steps the issue of
forty days of uninterrupted rain. It just says that if
it rains on the eighth of June, it will rain
on the eleventh or eighteenth of July, a much likelier coincidence.
(16:31):
I must admit that I found the version you used
is the one on Catholic dot net. In English, in
case you wonder, the most used meteorological saying in France
is Noel albacon paquet autisson meaning Christmas on the balcony,
Easter by the fire, often nowadays parodied as a niege,
(16:52):
and November Noel and December meaning snow in November, Christmas
in December. Thank you for your podcast, best regards, Francois
and then final ps, still awaiting your take on Podawn, which,
by the way, that's the French title of Donkey Skin
with Catherine Deneuve. We will get there eventually. It's on
(17:13):
the list, Yes.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
I am. I have to say. It looks like as
of this Friday we will already be diving into our
horror selections for October. But usually our pattern is that
once we get out of October, it's time for a
little palate cleansing, so maybe a little fantasy and definitely
a little noir. So I don't know, maybe that'll be
the time of donkey skin.
Speaker 3 (17:36):
M Yeah, but I like your parody saying about December,
if I understand it correctly, by the way I mean.
It is often a joke we have around here in
the American Southeast that like, yeah, it's going to be
hot on Christmas Day, which it sometimes is.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
All Right, This next one comes to us from Hugh.
Hugh says Robert, Joe and JJ. Hello there. It's been
a while since I've written. You guys have been doing
such a great job that I have had few questions
and little of use to add. Your recent episode on
Saint Swiven made me think of that an exploration of
(18:11):
the history of sainthood might be an interesting subject. It
turns out that during the early Middle Ages there were
many many local, regional, and magical saints chosen by communities
large and small. The official saint was part of the
Church's move to homogenize doctrine and consolidate power during the
Late Middle Ages. In early modern times, this is all
as far as I can remember, you understand, but you
(18:31):
get the idea keep up the good work here.
Speaker 3 (18:34):
Oh that's interesting, So, Hugh, if I understand you, right,
the idea is that sainthood begins as a more grassroots
or organic phenomenon, and then later there's the idea of
the church should really be, you know, having a system
to decide who is and isn't a saint, which would
play into Saint Swithin by the way, because as we discussed,
he's called Saint Swithin, but he was never actually officially
(18:57):
canonized by the Catholic Church and not an official Catholics.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
Right right, Yeah, yeah, So it's certainly a fascinating topic.
It would just be a matter of figuring out the
exact sort of the exact form the question takes. I
guess for treatment on stuff to blow your mind, but
I'm always fascinated by this sort of topic. So yeah,
well I've put it on the list.
Speaker 3 (19:17):
I mean, we could look at it in a larger sense,
going just beyond the Catholic thing of like who is holy?
Like why do we decide that certain people are holy? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (19:29):
And then what's left of the real person once we've
made them holy? Yeah. We got into that a little
bit and two previous episodes where we talked about saints. Yeah,
so yeah, this is this topic probably has legs.
Speaker 3 (19:42):
All right. This next message comes from Kieran. Kieran says, Hi,
Joe and Rob, this is Kieran from New Zealand. With
all this talk of Wallace. This is in response in
part by the way to our episode episodes on Alfred
Russell Wallace and the Wallace line. Kieran says, with all
this talk of my mind immediately jumped to a potential
candidate for weird house cinema, and that is the fantastic
(20:05):
two thousand and six film called The Fall. In the film,
it features a fictional Wallace and his monkey sidekick named Darwin.
Now one quick note, I had I looked this movie up,
and Kieran, I don't. I hesitate to correct you because
you've seen the film and I haven't. But when I
looked it up, it seems to me like it might
be the other way around, that there's a Darwin character
(20:27):
with a monkey named Wallace. But again I haven't seen it,
so maybe there's something I'm missing. Anyway, Kieran continues Wallace
and Darwin feature and story in a story within the
story in the film, though not main characters. They play
an important part in the events of the imaginary story
featured in the film. It's honestly one of the most
visually beautiful films I've ever seen, A criminally underrated masterpiece
(20:50):
with plenty of interesting content to fulfill the weird house quota.
Is this by the same director of The Cell with
Jennifer Lopez and Vincent and Afrio.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
It absolutely is. Yes, Tarsian Tarsi singh. I think he
just goes by Tarsan. Yeah, and I have I have
seen The Fall. It's I have not seen it since
it came out. It had a young Lee Pace in
it before Lee Pace got completely ripped. A great actor.
Lipace a big fan and enjoying really enjoying him on
(21:24):
foundation of late. But yeah, the Fall, I remember, like
The Cell being just a you know, a visual treat,
but I don't remember much about the plot. It's just
been too long since i've seen it.
Speaker 3 (21:37):
Well, I'll have to check it out. Thanks for the recommendation, and.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
It's very possible we might come back and do The Cell. Yeah,
The Cell is one I do remember getting very excited
for when it came out, and and certainly the visuals
did not disappoint at the time.
Speaker 3 (21:53):
If I recall correctly, that was one of the movies
that Roger Ebert really went out on a limb for.
He was like, this is awesome. You've got to see it.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
Sure enough to sell four stars.
Speaker 3 (22:06):
All right, let's see. Karing goes on to say, one
of the things I also love about Weird House is
how both of you have an immense talent for unpacking
a film and succinctly describing its concepts and themes. Therefore,
another film I would love to hear given the Weird
House treatment is a childhood favorite of mine. It's Terry
Gilliams The Adventures of Baron Munchausen. Many consider this film
(22:29):
to be an utter folly in the gilliam film catalog,
but I have a serious soft spot for this one.
It too, can be considered visually to be a ravishing spectacle,
full of amazing practical effects, brilliant sets, puppetry, costumes, and
so much more that leaves one thinking, how on earth
did they manage to get all this shot? This must
(22:50):
have been a nightmare to film, which apparently it was.
There's also an interesting tension I am sure you would
both like between the black and white childhood idea of myth, imagination, heroism,
and fantasy, and the adult gray world of reason, rationality, bureaucracy,
political expediency, and so forth. I really feel you would
(23:11):
both do an excellent job at unpacking this film with
its warts and all, discussing its production, themes, story, and
the rollicking good time it truly is. Thanks so much
for your excellent show, your gifts for science communication, your
respect for differing worldviews, and your love of pop culture
always keeps the show fun. Keep up the good work, Yours, sincerely, Kieran. Well,
(23:32):
thank you so much for all the kind words. Kieran,
It's been a long time since I've seen Baron Munchausen.
I remember back when I saw it, I both found
it difficult to watch and also really respected it, and
I think I had that thought about it more than
one Terry Gilliam film. It was some Gillian films I
just straight up love, but this one I remember thinking
(23:56):
it had some parts that were not the most gripping,
but also it had a lot of just weird integrity,
strange performances, like when it like Robin William This plays
the Man in the Moon on it and he's so
weird in it, and yeah, I don't know, there's been
(24:16):
a lot that I've forgotten about it by this point,
but I would like to go back and revisit it totally.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
Yeah, we've never done a Terry Gilliam film for Weird
House Cinema, and it's of course he's on my mind
anytime we're coming up with selections. But I guess I
kind of have a certain amount of decision fatigue when
it comes to him, because he's made so many iconically
weird films like do I go with Brazil? Do I
go with Time Bandits? Do I go with this selection?
(24:43):
Do I maybe go a little further back, or do
I know, take a chance on one of the more
recent pictures, you know, because there's going to be something.
He's one of those directors where even in his quote
unquote lesser works, there's going to be something to talk about.
There's going to be some nugget of absolute gold in there.
So yeah, for that reason, never actually selected something from
(25:04):
his filmography. Jabberwakee, that's another one.
Speaker 3 (25:08):
I saw that one when I was way too young.
I did not I did not fully get the vision
I think at the time. But yeah, I think when
I saw that, I had also seen Monty Python in
The Holy Grail when I was really too young to
have seen that, and I was like, I just wanted
another movie like that, and Jabberwaukee was like weirder than
what I was bargaining for.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
Yeah, I mean, when you talk about the vision with
Terry Gilliam, it's always a mad vision, So I think
it's always going to be a little bit challenging one
way or another.
Speaker 3 (25:38):
All Right, you want to do some straight up weird
house messages.
Speaker 2 (25:41):
Sure, Sure, let's see what do we have here. This
one comes to us from Scott subject line mor Locke perspective.
This is, of course a response to our episode on
the nineteen sixty film adaptation of The Time Machine. Hi,
Robert Joe. You'll doubtless here from many people on this,
(26:03):
but there is a story of the time traveler's adventures
from the Morlocks perspective. David Lake's nineteen eighty one novel
The Man Who Loved Morlocks. It's been a while since
I read it, but must confess it didn't seem highly memorable,
in part because the Morlocks weren't presented as sufficiently alien
in their psychology and culture as I would have expected
from post humans after eight hundred thousand years of evolution. Instead,
(26:26):
they seem more or less like very normal human beings
who had simply been misunderstood by a plundering traveler. But
perhaps other readers have different and more positive reviews.
Speaker 3 (26:36):
Scott, Yeah, you know, I'm actually of two minds about
the idea of taking, you know, doing a whole treatment
of a story where you flip the hero villain dynamic.
You know, there's like that classic example we've talked about
on the show before. I've actually not read this novel,
but there's that famous take on Lord of the Rings
(26:56):
which flips it all around, which is like from the
Orc's perspective, and the org are actually like nice people
who are just like trying to live in peace, and
they are being brutally assaulted by the wizards and the elves,
and so it's the kind of thing where that can
be really interesting if you have an interesting take on it.
But it could also be too easy, right you could
(27:18):
just say, like I'm just gonna flip everything and then
maybe not bring a lot of imagination to it. It
literally is just flipping everything. I'm not acute, by the way,
I haven't read this book, so I'm not accusing David
Lake of doing that. I don't have an opinion on it,
but I can see how a hero hero villain flipping
novel could easily be actually kind of unremarkable or uninteresting.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
Yeah, you would have to play it just right, and
and they're different. It also comes down to like, exactly
what sort of story are you trying to tell? What
sort of points are you trying to make about the
more locks or or the other factions or characters in
the narrative. So yeah, yeah, I was not familiar with
this book though, or really this particular author. I noticed
that he also wrote another book, The Truth about Weena,
(28:03):
from nineteen ninety eight.
Speaker 3 (28:06):
I wonder if that's a Is that a sequel to the.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
I guess so, or at least it's you know, it's
within the time Machine universe.
Speaker 3 (28:13):
Yeah, yeah, I may have already said this a minute ago,
But the more I'm thinking about it, the more it's
just like, for a story to work this way, you
have to find some way to make it original. It
can't just be the same story. But actually the bad
guys are the good guys, you know, it would need
to bring something new or creative.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
Yeah, I mean, we can all think of stellar examples
of this. For example, one that we've mentioned on the
show many times is John Gardner's Grindle, which tells the
story of Bailwil from the monstrous perspective. But yeah, like
that's an excellent treatment, an excellent use of this basic
flip the script method. So not every not every flipping
(28:50):
of the script is going to be as good as Grindle.
Speaker 3 (28:53):
And it's basically a new story. It's yeah, just yeah,
all right. This next message is from Matt subject line
of Vertue. Hey, Robin, Joe, Matt here, just listen to
your Vault episode on Black Sabbath. And I was wondering
if you have seen the twenty twenty three Oh, by
(29:14):
the way, that's the Mario Bava film Black Sabbath, not
the band, though the band got their name from the
title of the film, seeing it on a marquee, but yes,
let's see, Matt says, I was wondering if you have
seen the twenty twenty three French horror film The Verduolac,
directed by Adrian bo. It is a weird and creepy
new adaptation of Alexei Tolstoy's story. I loved the Black
(29:38):
Sabbath vignette, but it's interesting to see the story through
the lens of a modern filmmaker. I was particularly weirded
out by the use of vampire folklore regarding the chewing
of garments on a different Black Sabbath topic. I have
seen two different versions, both of which I believe were
dubbed into English. It's been some years since I watched it,
but I think the alternate version of the telephone, which
(30:00):
is one of the segments in the movie, the more
jallowy one with less supernatural elements. Matt says it removed
all reference to lesbian relationships and had the phone calls
coming from the main character's dead husband. I imagine that
would be the American International Pictures release. Anyway, I love
the show and look forward to future episodes. Matt oh Man,
(30:23):
I can't imagine a bowdlerized version of Black Sabbath. That
seems wrong.
Speaker 2 (30:28):
Yeah. Absolutely. Now, as for this twenty twenty three film, yes, well, no,
no one. Yes, no, I have not seen it, but yes,
I'm familiar with it because this one has been eyeing
me from the shelves at Video Drum here in Atlanta
for a while. It looks like a unique treatment on
(30:48):
the vampire legend with live action and what I believe
puppetry or stop motion, one or both of the two
used to depict the titular monster.
Speaker 3 (30:58):
I have not seen it, but I'm very interested. JJ
has seen it, by the way. I remembered that because
he had brought it up with me in the past.
But JJ just confirmed he thinks it would be a
good weird house movie. So that's a couple of votes
in its favor.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
Excellent, all right. The next one comes to us from
Doug and in this one, he's writing in response to
our Weird House Cinema episode on Willy Wonka and the
Chocolate Factory. He says, cap this podcast on a whim
and absolutely loved it. Willy Wonka in the Chocolate Factory
(31:33):
is one of my most favorite films. I used to
torture my children with on movie nights. They're all grown now,
and I hope to share it with the grandkids someday.
And although the film is over fifty years old, it
seems much of its content is still relatable. Candy and
imagination never go out of style. The over the top
performance of Gene Wilder and the dream like songs are
(31:53):
timeless masterpieces. This is one of the few movies I
keep on DVD to have accessible. Hopefully we don't lose
DVD players too, so.
Speaker 3 (32:00):
The market for them is has already greatly narrowed. But
you can still, to my relief, watch films on disc
and you can still get new players. I hope that's
something that comes back. I hope we just haven't like
given up and let the streamers fully win.
Speaker 2 (32:17):
No, absolutely, and I think once I think most of
you are beginning to realize, if you're not already one
hundred percent on board of this already, that having access
to physical media means you have access to your media
that you can count on long term. And that's why
if you have some sort of a video store in
your cities, like certainly support and chaerish it because there
(32:39):
can and and beyond that as well also your libraries,
whatever disks are available to your libraries. This this is
absolutely worth worth supporting and getting behind, because yeah, otherwise
it's just completely up in the air, like, well, will
this film be available streaming next week, next month? You
don't know, And then if it is, what version will
it be in what voices in the world might influence
(33:04):
what cut of a film you get to see later on.
So yeah, these are all excellent reasons to look after
your films and make sure you have access to them,
to them the way you want them.
Speaker 3 (33:15):
Yeah. Here here by the way, if you want to
write in and let us know about your local video
rental store. If you've got something like a video drome
or like a future shock video in your hometown and
you want to write in and tell us about it
what you love about it, please do contact at stuff
to Blow your Mind dot com.
Speaker 2 (33:32):
Absolutely anyway. Doug continues here and says, when Charlie and
the Chocolate Factory came out, I was excited to see
a modernization of Willy Wonka, Tim Burton and Johnny Depp.
What a perfect combination.
Speaker 3 (33:45):
Or was it?
Speaker 2 (33:46):
I don't know. It was filled with imagination and depths
over the top performance, but it lacked the connection with
the audience, and maybe I wasn't the right audience. I
don't know. It never connected with me. Thank you so
much for the imaginative distraction. It was fun going down
the road today, Doug. Yeah, it sounds like Doug was
pretty much in the same boat as we were with
the Tim Burton Willy Wonka picture. Like, you know, was
(34:09):
it creative that certainly that it has some really neat
sets and costumes and so forth. Yeah, absolutely, But yeah,
I can also say it didn't really stick with me
in the same way that the original did.
Speaker 3 (34:23):
Yeah. Yeah, I mean I can totally love a Burton
depth collab. I mean, the movie ed Wood is a
long time one of my favorites. This is great, but yeah,
this one never never looked like something I could endure.
All right, This next message is from Bert. Oh I
didn't check to see Is this the same bird as
our previous Burt message or a different Bert. I'm not sure,
(34:45):
but this is also about Charlie and the Chocolate Factory,
or actually it's about Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory
because it's the movie. Bert says, there was so much
I wanted to say as you went through the movie,
but I was driving and couldn't take notes. So Bert,
I'm glad you didn't, so I will limit myself to
(35:07):
two observations. First, I think all of the children actually
suffer from the same problem obsession. Augustas Gloup is obsessed
with food, Veruk Assault is obsessed with herself, Violet Beauregard
is obsessed with gum Man gum That is a pretty
narrow obsession, and Mike TV is obsessed with TV only
(35:27):
Charlie doesn't have any obsessions. The second observation I'd like
to make is I love your take on Willy Wonka
as a proto supernatural character, possibly with supernatural enemies, he
has to contend with sort of a mister Rourke of
the candy world. I think that's referring to the Ricardo
Montlebond character on Fantasy Island who can make your fantasies
(35:49):
come true, has a supernatural kind of quality, a mister
Rourke of the candy world. Just as we eventually learned
that mister Rourke is a direct opponent of Satan, we
could possibly learned that in the future that Slugworth is
actually the Evil County counterpart to Willy Wonka. Oh, like
a demonic candy maker of the rival company. Yeah, I
(36:11):
guess not the Slugworth we see in the movie, because
that was a counterfeit slug Worth that was actually a
servant of the Lord opposing as a demon. But Bert
finishes by saying I'm not an author, but I may
have to try to write that story.
Speaker 2 (36:25):
Bert.
Speaker 3 (36:25):
Go for it, man, Yeah, nothing to stop you.
Speaker 2 (36:29):
Slug Worth does show up in the recent Wonka film,
twenty twenty three's Wonka. Oh, and you know they don't
really play up the magical mystical aspects of this character,
but he is played by the excellent Patterson Joseph. So again,
you know, I wouldn't say that twenty twenty three's Wonka
is on the same level as the original Willy Wonka
(36:50):
picture for me personally, but I thought it was a
lot of fun.
Speaker 3 (36:53):
I haven't seen it, can't comment.
Speaker 2 (36:55):
All right, This next one comes to us from Amy,
and this one is going to be a correction. And
I just want to note here that JJ and I
have already gone back to our episode and plugged in
a little note about this. So the correction is also
present in the Weird House Cinema episode moving forward. So
(37:18):
Amy says, hi, guys, I listened to you every single morning,
and I was delighted to hear you do WILLI walcome
the chocolate factory on Weird House? And I never want
to be a nitpicker, but I wanted to let you
know before you get the will actually people talking about
Gene Wilder, you mentioned Blazing Saddles best comedy ever and
said it quote would lead to four more films with
Richard Pryor. Richard Pryor was set to star in Blazing Saddles,
(37:41):
but he was too spicy for the producers. Cleveland Little
replaced him and hit it out of the park. Thank
you for attending Mike cleveland Little fan Club meeting. Love
you guys.
Speaker 3 (37:51):
Amy. Yeah, so, I did not know that Richard Pryor
had been in the running to play the lead in
Blazing Saddles. He was one of the screenwriters on the movie,
but apparently he was also Melbrooks's original choice to play
the lead the character of bart. Brooks himself has claimed
in multiple accounts that even though he wanted prior for
the role, the executives at Warner Brothers would not allow
(38:13):
it because they said he was uninsurable due to previous
drug arrests. I don't know if that story is true.
It had like it's never been confirmed by anybody on
the Warner Brothers side, but that's what Melbrooks always said.
Though apparently after he was ruled out for the role,
prior did recommend Cleveland Little.
Speaker 2 (38:29):
For the role. Yeah, yeah, and true enough, he's great
in it. Yeah, real quick. I want to throw in
a note here that, of course, the Willywalk episode of
Weird House I dedicated to my mom, who had passed
away the month before. A number of you heard that
and wrote in with some very nice comments, and I
just want to just want to say I appreciate it.
All right, Joe, I'm going to pass it back to you.
(38:50):
Here we have an excellent one from Lindsay here. Lindsay's
listener mail writing is kind of like a work of poetry,
a little stream of consciousness.
Speaker 3 (38:58):
Here Lindsey says, hey, y'all think about Grizzly too. Weird
stuff around it. Shot in nineteen eighty three, finally released
in twenty twenty. Shot in Hungary, portraying a nineteen eighty
three music festival in a US national park. Evil promoter
(39:19):
played by Louise Fletcher, very young, George Clooney, Charlie Sheen,
Laura Dern, John ry S Davies as a French frontier trapper,
bad accent, fringe, buckskin single shot twelve Gage with native decorations,
A bunch of other eighties character actor names awful film errors,
showing a cartridge flying as a bullet kickstarting an entirely
(39:42):
different motorcycle from when he was riding National Park jeep
with government plates, several brit bands, and what I think
was a Hungarian rock band singing in Hungarian. I have
a pretty high tolerance for weird, but this one was
off the charts. Has to be a twisted story behind it,
somewhere right on Lindsey WHOA.
Speaker 2 (40:05):
Will color me intrigued interested putting it on the list exactly?
All right? Here's another one. This one comes to us
from Ian and says, dear Robin Joe, I wanted to
write in to suggest a movie for weird house Cinema,
The Adventures of Buckeroo Bonzai Across the Eighth Dimension. Somehow
I had managed to never hear of this movie, despite
being a child of the eighties and it apparently being
(40:27):
a cult classic from that era, until my wife and
I stumbled across it on Amazon Prime the other day,
and boy was it a treat. You have Peter Weller
and Jeff Goldbloom battling rubber suit aliens from another dimension
led by an evil John Lithgow It's campy and janki
and borderline nonsensical, and a joy from the start to
the finish. The one thing that disappointed me about the
(40:48):
movie was that the sequel promised and the credits never materialized.
Though Buckeroo Bonzai against the World of Crime does sound
like a step down from fighting trans dimensional aliens, that
travesty aside. I would love to hear y'all discuss it.
Your thoughts are always a treat. Thanks for the great show,
Ian I.
Speaker 3 (41:05):
This is a wonderful suggestion. John Smallberry's must be heard.
Speaker 2 (41:10):
And I also have to say I do in general
love love slash hate it. It's a it's a mix
of feelings. When you have a film set up a
sequel that sounds really cool and it never happens, Yeah
every time. It's like when you do that, you create
an alternate timeline where that movie exists and we can
only dream what ourselves are like in that timeline.
Speaker 3 (41:32):
Can I can I offer a counter opinion though this
maybe this is the love half of your love hate
relationship with this. I have come, as I've gotten older,
more and more to appreciate all the different varieties of
something leaving you wanting more. I think that's actually a
good thing. And I when I was younger, I would
be more inclined to be upset that there could have
(41:55):
been more that we didn't get, and now to kind
of feel positive, feel kind of like love and gratefulness
when all there is is enough to make me want
more instead of there being more that isn't what I want.
Speaker 2 (42:09):
Yeah, yeah, I mean that's isn't that always the case
with life? Right?
Speaker 3 (42:12):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (42:13):
We have to have to be glad that it happened,
not sad that it's over, and so forth, be happy
with the film you got, and yeah, be be glad
that it left while people were still wanting it to stay.
But of course the counter argument there is, oh, well,
I guess you didn't need aliens. I guess you didn't
need terminator too. I guess you didn't need scanners to
(42:36):
Well maybe we didn't need scanners too, But at any rate,
there needed scanner cop We did did we do We
didn't do scanner cop?
Speaker 3 (42:43):
No, we didn't do it. On the show I said
we needed scanner, we.
Speaker 2 (42:46):
Needed scanner cop and scanners too. Was the the the
the the bridge? So yeah, I mean it all works
out in the wash for.
Speaker 3 (42:56):
Sure, all right, Well, so you want me to do
this last one from Jeff? Sure, all right, Jeff says
a subject line bad to the Bones, and note, by
the way, this came up probably in response to our
episode on Sinbad and the Eye of the Tiger, because
it's about Ray Harry Housen. That movie has a bunch
of great stop motion effects by Ray Harry Housen, including
(43:18):
some skeleton ghouls which are raised up out of a
bonfire by the Witch Queens and Obia. They're sent to
destroy Sindbad, which leads to a cool sword fight scene.
Sinbad has to think quick and find a way to
destroy the skeletons, which are impervious to being stabbed obviously
because they're kind of skeletons. And I think that sent
us on a good tangent about skeleton warriors and various
(43:39):
things you always end up finding some in your D
and D. Right, Yeah, well that's exactly what this emails about.
Jeff says, greetings, Joe and Rob, regarding the recent discussion
of Clackety Harry House and skeletons. In my first D
and D campaign as a kid, we received a standard
(44:00):
issue in assigned mission to collect a magical something or
other from a nearby dungeon. We had spent days creating
characters with cool powers like talking to squirrels and creating
sparkly light shows, but we didn't pay enough attention to
including the required party beefcake Rob. Is this a standard
D and D term or is this is this a
(44:20):
Jeff ism here? I assume Jeff is referring to like
a tank character or something.
Speaker 2 (44:27):
Ah, yeah, this is not terminology we use at our table,
but my table is not exactly maybe a great snapshot
of what all gamers are doing and talking about.
Speaker 3 (44:37):
Yeah, anyway, what I could be wrong, but what I
imagine Jeff means there is like, yes, a damage dealing
and absorbing character, a fighter or something. Yeah yeah, tank, yeah,
Jeff says. By the time we got to the dungeon entrance,
we had already had the crap kicked out of us
by some dumb creatures who were not impressed with ventriloquism
(44:57):
or the ability to pick pockets.
Speaker 2 (44:59):
Some low roll.
Speaker 3 (45:00):
Yeah. As we approached, a bunch of skeletons came charging
out at us like ants from a disturbed ant hill.
The cleric, happy to finally get something fun to do
did a turn undead on them, but due to our
low level, it didn't destroy them, but it did make
them flee, and for the first time none of us
(45:20):
got hurt. Rob Can you do a quick Encyclopedia entry
on turn undead? That's it's a cleric ability.
Speaker 2 (45:28):
Yes, yes, we have pretty standard ability of good holy
characters to just make lower level undead, you know, drop
and run or drop. In general, it can and at
some point it can ramp up to being destroyed undead.
I never play a cleric though, so I don't have
a lot of like hands on experience with it.
Speaker 3 (45:49):
But so, like the standard effect is that you get
some zombies or skeletons or whatever, you do turn undead
on them and they like drop their weapons and run away.
Speaker 2 (45:58):
Yeah you can do, yeah they run away, or again
you just destroy them, like, yeah, they just can't stand
against the Cross or the Pentagram or whatever kind of
holy item and deity you represent.
Speaker 3 (46:10):
Okay, Jeff goes on. We discovered the dungeon was infested
with skeletons, so we worked out a plan to quietly enter,
make a bunch of noise, run screaming back outside to
draw out the skeletons, have the cleric turn them and repeat.
Because turn on dead was an ability and not a spell,
we could do that all day, which we did so,
(46:31):
meaning you have a limited number of spell slots that
you would use up if it were a spell, but
it's not like that. You can just keep doing it
over and over. And I like this because this is
like a video game cheese strategy, but you're doing it
in a tabletop setting, which Finn, you know, when I'm
playing like a single player video game, I do. I
(46:52):
don't know if I want to admit this, but I
often find myself just figuring out little like cheese strategies,
like how do I get the enemies to just funnel
into like a near corridor where I can fight them
more easily, And you know that just happens. Sometimes you
find your way into like trying to find easier ways
to get through encounters, even if it's not what the
game developers probably intended, because they wanted you to have
(47:14):
a more kind of like challenging and thrilling way of
getting through. I don't know, we just tend to want
to find an easier way to do something.
Speaker 2 (47:21):
I guess it works in real life exactly. Of course,
we're going to solve problems in a virtual world the
same way.
Speaker 3 (47:28):
But I don't really have that problem in tabletop ore like,
I'm not usually looking for a cheese strategy when I'm
playing D and D with my friends.
Speaker 2 (47:35):
Well, D and D is special, and by DND, I'm
just referring to all social role playing games like this
and that it is social. So on one hand, you
are trying to beat, defeat an enemy, or overcome a
particular challenger in an and or system, but you're also
in theory and hopefully trying to collectively tell a really
(47:57):
good story with your friends. So if you go just
total cheese mode, you might be ignoring the storytelling or
ignoring the friends, the latter being the worse of the
two to ignore. So yeah, it has to be just
the right balance.
Speaker 3 (48:14):
So Jeff goes on to explain the result of this
turn on dead cheese strategy. We were then able to
move through the dungeons slowly and cautiously, on the lookout
for traps and curses, without constant fear of attack and
completely lacking in dramatic tension. There you go. We eventually
found the loot and headed back for our reward. If
you've ever DMD a party of rule hacking players like that,
(48:36):
you can probably see where this is going. We got
back to town, which was in chaos and burning to
the ground as the civilians had been slaughtered by wave
after wave of violent skeletons who had been driven from
their home looking for revenge on the living. So we
didn't get the reward or very many experience points, but
we did certainly gain real life wisdom from an experience.
(48:57):
Don't f with the module there you go. I mean,
I think that's exactly what you were saying. Ron getting
in the way of the spirit of the storytelling sometimes exerts.
Sometimes it invites a kind of karmic reaction from the DM.
Speaker 2 (49:12):
Yeah, but I mean, I don't know, it's like it's
totally about the table and what the whole vibe is.
Like maybe that's exactly what needs to be happened. And
it was the greatest gaming experience of all time for
everybody because that's what they were in the mood for.
So there's you know, there's no ones that way that
it needs to be for everybody.
Speaker 3 (49:29):
Yeah, and then Jeff has a very nice note at
the end. Jeff says on a personal note, I wanted
to extend my deepest sympathies to Rob in his time
of loss. We all owe his mother a great debt,
both for taking on one of the world's most important
occupations referring to teaching, and for raising Rob, whose hard
work does so much to soothe people going through tough
(49:49):
times or just trying to make their way through the
daily grind. Props to mom for making the world a
better place.
Speaker 2 (49:55):
Jeff, Oh, thank you, Jeff, that's very sweet.
Speaker 3 (49:58):
I appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (49:59):
And again heard from numerous other listeners out there, and
you know I appreciate all your kind words. All right, Well,
at this point, I guess it's time to go ahead
and close up the old mailbag for today, but we
will be back later. Once again, we are on the
cusp of diving into October. I know it, we're only
(50:20):
halfway through September, but that's where we are. It's about
to be October everyone, So that's going to be all
sorts of cool October topics, October weird house cinema selections.
On that note, like, we're putting together the list now,
so if you are just really gung ho for a
particular October weird House cinema selection, or certainly a particular
(50:42):
core episode of stuff to blow your mind or things
to feature on the Monster fact or the artifact. Now
is definitely the time to go ahead and start pestering
us with those suggestions, because we're putting the list together
right now.
Speaker 3 (50:54):
Can I say what the October weird house vibe is?
I think, without us ever making this explain or doing
this on purpose, I think during October we lean more
toward classic supernatural horror more so than we do in
other times of the year, where we might go more
kind of sci fi or fantasy, or throughout the rest
(51:16):
of the year. I feel like it's more common that
the horror we do has a kind of sci fi
flavor to it, or might be one of these other
subgenres body horror or something like that. But in October
that's the time for like witches and ghosts and vampires,
that sort of thing. Do you have the same feeling, Yeah?
Speaker 2 (51:33):
Yeah, And it's again, we don't have like a list
that we check off physically every time, but that does
seem to be how it works out.
Speaker 3 (51:41):
Yeah, yeah, So we're not trying to be rigid about that.
But I think that is the general vibe if y'all
are making suggestions, which again are totally welcome.
Speaker 2 (51:50):
Definitely a time for gothic car that's for sure.
Speaker 3 (51:52):
Yeah, especially if it's gothic horror that gets really weird.
That's a sweet spot.
Speaker 2 (51:57):
Yeah, we'll inevitably do a film that has one of
the big names of horror films of yesteryear, like a
Vincent Price or Christopher Lee or Cushing and so forth.
So certainly if there's a film featuring any of those individuals, like, yeah,
let us know which one you think should be on
our play. Just a reminder to everyone out there that
Stuff to Blow Your Mind is primarily a science and
(52:18):
culture podcast. Core episodes in Tuesdays and Thursdays, short form
episodes on Wednesdays and on Fridays. That's the time to
set aside most serious concerns and just talk about a
weird film on Weird House Cinema.
Speaker 3 (52:28):
Huge thanks as always to our excellent audio producer JJ Posway.
If you would like to get in touch with us
with feedback on this episode or any other, to suggest
a topic for the future, or just to say hello,
you can email us at contact at Stuff to Blow
your Mind dot com.
Speaker 1 (52:49):
Stuff to Blow Your Mind is production of iHeartRadio. For
more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Stuff To Blow Your Mind News
Hosts And Creators
Robert Lamb
Joe McCormick
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