Mad Scientists: Frankenstein and the Fly

Today mad scientists are common in fiction, and they appear in everything from comedies to science fiction. But they're also relatively recent. What made them so popular? Tune in and learn more about mad scientists in the public consciousness.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to Stuff from the Science Lab from how stuff
works dot com. Hey guys, and welcome to the podcast.
This is Alison I don't know, like the science editor
at how stuff ricks dot com. And this is Robert Lamb,
science writer at how stuff works dot com. And uh

(00:25):
it's uh. We're getting into the Halloween season here. And
one of my favorite things about Halloween, one of my
favorite like Halloween costumes, Halloween ideas is, of course the
mad scientist. Have you gone as a mad scientistic? Oh? Yes,
I've gone as mad scientist before any specific man scientists
are just kind of general mad scientistic, specific mad scienists.
Who I went as Dr Clayton Forester from Mystery Science

(00:48):
Theater three thousand excellent? Yeah, he who had? He has
one of my my favorite quotes about mad scientists in
general and mad science. He said it would he was
being asked something or you know, there was some complicated
issue that came up, and he just responded, it would
take a scientist to explain. And I'm simply too mad.
But who comes to mind when you think of mad

(01:09):
science and mad scientists? Um, well, you know, definitely some
of the ones that we're going to talk about today, Frankenstein,
I would say, Um, perhaps I'm a little ashamed to
a meant this, but I will because you know it's
a podcast and you guys can't see me. But I
figured that guy from Back to the Future, we ever

(01:29):
decide on his name? Um, Dr Holiday, Doc Holiday. No, No,
you're you're getting your your your your movie is confused. Okay,
you're you're you're talking about Doc Hollywood And that was
you're the guy with a crazy hair. No, No, that
was Doc Brown, Doc Brown. Yeah, totally mad science. And
that's yeah, he's a played by Christopher Lloyd. That's a

(01:49):
great example of a of a cinematic mad scientist, you know,
because he's into crazy like fringe e science, and he's
got the hair, he's got the hair. He's he's not
playing by the rules, you know, he's you know, because
I believe the thing was he he was getting plutonium
from um from terrorists or something. It's been a while
since I've seen it. But and then ultimately experimenting, you know,

(02:11):
without like a strict kind of like a scientific method
going on. You know, there's not really a method to
his madness. But is there a method to some of
our mad scientists madness today there is um and science.
Is there a method to their madness center science? Well,
there's there's definitely a method to it. So we're gonna
talk about two the Big East. Yeah, yeah, two of
the Big well yeah, certainly one of one of the

(02:32):
Big East and then another one that has a lot
of um uh that that really resonates in American culture
in the you know, the past couple of decades. But
but yeah, mad scientists when you when you boil it
down and when they're not serving as just a plot device,
they basically embody society's collective fears. And this giving is
about the advancement of science and how science can be exploited. Alright,

(02:57):
primal fear of science. Now, sometimes it is just a
stock thing, you know, like Dr Clayton Forrester on Mystery
Science Theater or um let's see the Professor Werner. I
believe it was called in the movie Twins, Like that
wasn't really that it wasn't saying anything important just to
figure out the movie Twins, Yeah, because I mean that's
that nobody thinks of Twins and was like, yeah, Twins

(03:18):
totally made some really good points about where we are
with our you know, perception of science at the time. No,
it was just the mad scientist was just there to
facilitate the running gag that that was. Danny de Vito
and Arnold Schwarzenegger are brothers and twins. I do have
that image of them in the white suits right now.
I wonder if you guys do out there as well.
And then sometimes they're just stock villains like Lex Luthor

(03:39):
and you know, the Superman. He eventually became like more
of a politician. But originally it was like a mad
scientist or doctor Doom or you know, or anytime that
somebody's gonna name like Dr Doom or Dr Satan, you know,
anything like that. You know, it's just like some sort
of mad scientist situation going on, and it's an excuse
for like crazy scientific abilities and that our hero has
to fight. But it was something you concept, this whole

(04:00):
idea of a mad scientist because if you think about it,
scientists the words scientists really didn't appear in print m
at least according to some until eighteen forty. And the
idea of a mad scientist is also a pretty new idea. Yeah,
you have to you have to back up a couple
of decades from from eighteen forty to eighteen eighteen to
find like the classic example of the mad scientists, the

(04:22):
one that resonates today, that still like the first thing
in your mind when you think of mad scientists most
of the time, and that, of course is Mary Shelley's
book Frankenstein or the like. The secondary title for this
was the Modern Prometheus. I never realized that. I never
realized that was the subtitle or the secondary title of Frankenstein. Yeah,
it's it's it's easy to look over. Sometimes they don't

(04:43):
always put it in big print, you know. And the
and that's the other thing that talking about print, this
this book has been in in print just continuously since
eighteen eighteen. That's that's pretty impressive. And as long as
we're talking about eighteens, it was written by an eighteen
year old. Yeah, that's the other Like, you know, as
as someone who dabbles, you know, well, you know dabbles, right, yeah, right,

(05:05):
as as a writer, as someone who who writes you know,
fiction as well. Sometimes it's like you look at this
and it's like it's this awesome novel and just like
she was eighteen, which he wrote it, it's it's it's
amazing and a little infuriating. Yeah. And then there's of
course the famous story behind her originating Frankenstein. This was
her her husband, Percy Shelley, the poet, Yeah, and then

(05:27):
bad romantic poet and then bad boy Lord Byron perhaps
with his pet bear and his skull that he would
drink about because he was like the original like bad
boy of of of literature. Yeah. Yeah, and they were
all hanging out together and they decided to each try
to ghost story. I remember reading about this in New Yorker.
They had a really great, um, very long article about

(05:50):
Mary Shelley and all that stuff. Yeah. And the other
really interesting thing is that, of course it was published anonymously,
because ladies shouldn't be writing, and they definitely shouldn't be
you know, contemplating some of the stuff that comes up
in Frankenstein. Yeah. When it first came out, it was
apparently printed anonymously, and they later you know, started putting
her name on it, and apparently she had a really

(06:10):
hard time getting anybody to publish it too, Like everybody
was just kind of like yeah, it's like, like I say,
how many things from eighteen eighteen are still you know, Um,
you know, making books laugh the chelse these days. So Prometheus, yes,
that's important before we even really get into the plot
of Frankenstein. And I think everybody's more or less familiar
with the plot. Uh, let's talk about why she included

(06:34):
Prometheus in the title. You know, you don't do something
like that unless it means something. Um, Prometheus was a
Titan back in Greek mythology, Yeah, he was. This was like,
the Titans were the elder gods. These were the guys
that used to run the show, and then the Olympian
gods like Zeus and company, they ended up taking over.
In fact, Zeus's father was Chronos um and who was

(06:56):
a Titan, and so he overthrew his father and he
becomes he becomes the dude and show arch. And but
the Titans all they kind of remain along, you know,
around They're still kicking around doing their own thing while
the Olympians are ruling. So along comes Prometheus, ametheas, what
does Prometheus do that gets Prometheus was an old rabble rouser.
Yeah he uh, he's pretty daring rabble rouser, and he

(07:17):
he defied the gonuts by you guys are all saying
this under your bath right now. Stealing the secret of
fire from Zeus and sharing it with the human race,
and we've kept it ever since. Yeah, but Prometheus, we've
kept it and it's been great. But Prometheus was totally busted. Yeah,
he was. And its punishment and they're always some great punishments.
And in mythology, he was chained to a rock. And

(07:39):
then every day what happens. The eagle sweeps down and
eats his liver, and then every night liver grows back.
And then the next morning, Uh, still change. Yeah, eagle
comes down, eats his liver again. Every day, liver eating
going on and just in torment forever because of this.
That is a big bummer. But we were grateful to Prometheus. Yeah,

(08:00):
And here's the code like that, Basically, the the knowledge
of fire was forbidden knowledge, you know, dangerous knowledge that
humans were not supposed to have. They weren't good to have. This.
What's the obvious comparison. Here is the fruit, Yeah, the
fruit of you know, from the Tree of Knowledge. Yeah,
the apple in in the garden of Eden, Adam and Eve,
you know, the Book of Genesis. Um. But while it's

(08:22):
it's a lot more you know, situation of you know,
Eve and and Adam too, though they messed up and
you just put Adam in there, thanks for doing that. Well,
like it or not, it's like a lot of people
end up making that, you know, comparison, that Eve's the
one that really messed up by getting that apple though
I don't you know, agree with that. But but you
guys are getting You're not just getting a podcast on
science Day. You're getting a podcast on Adam and Eve

(08:45):
and Greek mythology and some of the fine that scientists
in literature. But so the point is though that that
unlike Adam and the Adam and Eve situation, Prometheus is
really seen as a hero, like he really did a
noble thing in a really horrendous price for it, right,
because he's trying to make life better for humanity. Right.

(09:05):
So it's not a situation of he did something evil
and was punished for it. He did something that the
gods didn't like, helped humanity out, but you know, had
dire consequences for him. So let's start talking about that
in terms of Frankenstein. So quick review here, it might
be an order. Yeah, um, in case you guys haven't
read it, it's it's pretty beautifully written tale uh with

(09:28):
a quote unquote monster you relate to, and has these
cultural ponderings that are just as relevant today, you know,
when we're talking about things like Higgs Boson and Dolly
the Sheep as they were back in the ages of
you know, Darwin. Yeah, and it's important to again we're
talking about the book here, and there have been some
fine film adaptations, but but they often, uh differ from

(09:50):
from the original you know writing. Um. For instance, in
the in the book Victor Frankenstein, the Doctor, he's not
this hysterical madman. Okay, like he certainly acting from a
very like self centered you know, um um, you know
point of view, a very um you know us. Yeah,
he's very egotistical, you know. I mean, he's wanting to
do he wants to do this thing because it's gonna

(10:13):
be awesome and he's gonna be really well known for
and it's never been done before. You know, it's like
climbing you know, Mount Everest. Um. So maybe he's not
a mad scientist. Well yeah, it's kind of like maybe
he's more realistically mad and not just like looney you know,
um uh you know TV movie of the Week mad
Uh you know, because he's also he's really earnest. He's

(10:34):
a he's a solitary idealist, you know. Um, okay, yeah,
I have a Victor quote. This is from the book.
He said, Um, life and death appeared to me ideal
bounds which I should first breakthrough and pour a torrent
of light into our dark world, kind of like Prometheus
with his fire. Yeah. Yeah, he's this we're talking about
like Promethean fire here. He wants to to take forbidden knowledge,

(10:58):
take something that man has never been able to do,
which is going to be create life and uh, and
make the world a better place somehow through it, you know,
improve the human condition by doing this. Now, the monster,
it's important, the monster in the book is not this
is this rampaging half wit. You know, he's he's not mute,
he's he's uh, he's not just he's articulate, in telligent.

(11:20):
He's articulate. He wants to be more human. That in
itself causes the problem. He wants to be part of
the society that he's confronted with. But you know, then
he has his parents to to contend with. Yeah. Victor
wanted to make apparently a pretty monster despite the fact
that he's like building it out of like corpses and
animal parts. Apparently. You know, I'm not really sure what

(11:41):
Victor thought he was gonna get. I think he was
that he went into this a little bold, you know. Uh.
And the monster, yes, is of course eight feet tall
and pretty hideous. Yeah, and uh, he ends up abandoning
the monster. He abandons his creation, like right after he
makes it. And uh and so yeah, so that this
the cideous monster finds himself in like human society, Uh,
just completely shunned as a monster because he's again eight

(12:04):
feet tall and and ugly as heck, let's hear from
the Monster, shall we? Yeah, he and there's a I mean,
the monster is just this great, you know, it's you
know that the monster is really the start of the show.
And the Monster, of course, is not named Frankenstein. We've
kind of gotten to the point where we refer to
the monster as Frankenstein, but it's just the monster. I
think occasionally Victor refers to him as a demon or something.

(12:28):
But here's a quote from the Monster. Did I request
the Maker from Mike Clay to mold me man? Did
I solicit the from Darkness to promote me? Because that's
the monster's whole deal. It's like, I didn't ask to
be made and all this, but you made me and
then you just abandoned me, and now I have to
deal with all this stuffed and yeah, and there's I mean,

(12:49):
in a way, the monster. Yeah, that's that's what he
comes to ask for. And again we're kind of mirroring
Adam and Eve kind of too. You know. It's like
he's he you know, he wants his mate, his up
so he's not a lonely alone in the world, you know. Um,
And so Victor complies, right, Yeah, he starts to comply
like he because he's like, all right, I'll do it,

(13:10):
you know, and then we're splits, you know, we're even.
And then he's thinking, oh, my goodness, if I make
an because because the monster wanted another monster, like he
knew that if he made them, he made something beautiful
and more human, then it wouldn't accept him. So I
don't think the monster had heard of the Beauty and
the Beast. If maybe he maybe he realized that that

(13:30):
was unrealistic. He'd already tried. He was the monster. Nobody's
falling for him, so he needs another monster to fall
for him and he just needed time. Yeah, maybe, but
he wanted a mate now, so so yeah, so Victor
started to put one together and the process was moving along.
But then he was like, oh, my goodness, then these
two are gonna mate and they're gonna be more monsters
and this will just be a new race of monsters

(13:51):
and so so he freaked out and destroyed it, and
as you can imagine, things got progressively worse from there. Yeah,
it all winds up. I I don't really want to
give the ending in case there's somebody out there who
actually is going to read it and hasn't read it, yeah,
or hasn't had it spoiled by movies. Yeah, just know that,
you know, things get worse, things get vengeful on both sides,

(14:13):
and the endings loved ones are lost, etcetera. So let's
talk about the meeting, right, Yes, So the great thing
about the book is that you end up sympathizing with
both characters. It's not a you know, it's not a
mad scientist creates sympathetic monster situation completely, it's not. It's
also not a human creates monster and monster ruins humans

(14:34):
life situation. Like there's a little bit of both, like Victor. Um,
you know, Victor kind of asked for it by a
bandon is created this creature, you know, and and not
really doing much to try and fix the situation beyond
killing the creature and the monster. You know, even though
he comes from a very you know, relatable point and
you know, and and and he's molded by the society
that he's thrust into. He also you know, becomes vengeful

(14:56):
and murderous and and becomes the mo to that society
thinks he is. You know. So what does this say
about society and what was going on with science at
the time. Well, let's talk about what was happening. I mean,
you have things like Charles Darwin's voyage to the Galapacus
Islands back in one. You have James Cook He's hooking
up around the world back in seventeen sixty eight. So

(15:20):
those were two, Yeah, those were two examples of you know,
stuff was getting done scientifically. People were traveling like they
never traveled before. They were figuring out things about um,
about where we came from and how life worked. Um,
they were even checking out death a little bit. You know,
there's some grave robbing and I'm not sure that was
all in the name of science necessarily. A lot of
it was though, um, as anybody who's read Mary Roach,

(15:43):
who we talked to in the previous we interviewed her
for a previous podcast. In her book Stiff, she goes
into the the corp drobbing that went on to give
medical students and scientists. So so that was pretty big.
And then there was a specifically Shelley was inspired by
this guy named Luigi Galvani and he would electrocute frog
legs to study, uh, you know, the how how bioelectricity

(16:08):
works and um, and yeah, so there were a lot
of it. It's it's kind of like science has has
been for a while. There's so many exciting things, and
it seems like we're just always on the cusp of
figuring out something that's really game changing, you know, like
synthetic biology. Yeah, yeah, synthetic biology or you know, cloning, um,
you know, uh, you know, figuring out you know what's
going on inside of you know, minute particles, uh, you

(16:31):
know the very you know, structure of the universe. It's
like we're always just you're always trying to to answer
these questions and you can't help but wonder, what do
we answer them. What then if we answer them, what
what if we use that information? Uh in a way
that's unethical or irresponsible, because, like I said, the monster
ends up, you know, Victor ends up creating so much,

(16:51):
so much more death than he creates life. And it's
because the you know, it's because of society. It's because
of the decisions that he makes. Uh in in this
thing into the world, you know, so you can you
can ask similar questions about pretty much any scientific discovery
that we've made. You learn how to release the power
of the atom. You know, there's a monster for you

(17:13):
right there. You know, so much potential. But then uh
and and certainly a lot of great things have come
of it, but also tremendous horror. Right, Yeah, definitely as
a society were capable of warping these discoveries. Yeah, I
mean it comes down Promethean fire. You know, it can illuminate,
it can heat your house, but it can also burn
you up. Moving on to the fly. Yeah, now this, um,

(17:35):
you know, we're talking about favorite mad scientists and my
you mentioned Jeff Goldbloom a lot, so I'm not really
surprised if he comes up. Well, yeah, I love it.
God Blooms a great actor and in the Fly he's
just amazing. Um and uh and this and I'm also
a Cronenberg fan and uh and this is one of
those uh, those Mad Scientists films that yeah, yeah, this

(17:56):
is like his most mainstream film. Um. But you know,
we we did a previous podcast about science fiction and
why science fiction matters, and one of the things we
mentioned that science fiction is always most interesting and what
it tells you about the time period in which it
was created, not about the future that it envisions or
the place that it thinks technology will go. And this

(18:17):
movie was was made, came out in six and it's
so it's it's firmly implanted in the eighties, and it's
it's mindset. Now you know, we're not talking about fashion
or anything, but it's shoulders. Yeah. But but the the
you can say, I think, um, Gina Davis has some
pretty eighties here going on at times. But Tina Davis,
she's great and she was I forgot about that at

(18:39):
the time that they made this. Um, gold Bloom and
her were an item. Apparently. Yeah, that's some good scoop, Robert. Yeah,
well and here's some here's some extra funds. So this
was a. This was a Cronenberg remake of a nineteen
fifty eight Vincent Price film, Vincent Price He of thriller.
Yeah yeah, who does the voice over? Okay? But it
was based on a script by James Clovell, who wrote

(18:59):
who later went on to write Show Gun, you know,
and all those films that all those different books about
Japan and Japanese culture, and this was in that screenplay
was based in a short story by this guy named
George Langolan, which I mean he never really did anything.
Appeared right nine seven issue of Playboy. Yeah, so I

(19:20):
don't know, that's just it's just interesting stuff. Yeah. But yeah,
and it also comes you know, again we're saying it's
the film that came out in eighty six was very
much a you know, a product of its time, even
though it was based on previous Yeah sure, but like
any good remake, and embodied the fears and ideas, right
of So what was going on then? Well, we as
always you know, there's scientific up people going on, new

(19:43):
advances in technology, but then more importantly, we have more
importantly we have a slowly thawing Cold War. Yeah, and uh,
in AIDS was pretty I mean, it continues to be
a big problem today obviously, but at the time there
was you know, that was when it really first started
to surface. Yeah, people were really concerned about it. It
was a huge social issue. I mean, it's still a
huge social issue, don't get me wrong, but you know,

(20:03):
at the time, it was even more prevalent in the media,
and that's when, Yeah, that's really when it started to
creep into our consciousness and become a reality. So basic
setup in the movie, Yeah, so you have this guy
named Seth Brundle played by Goldwin, and he's a scientist,
brilliant scientist. Pony that movie, I can't recall. I think
he might have did you have I don't think he
had a ponytail. He had sort of big hair going on, um,

(20:26):
and he was like really ripped because he's naked a lot.
And there's a lot of sex in the film, which
is actually important compared to when we're dealing with the
the contextual stuff that we're talking about here. Um. But yeah,
he's a scientist working on teleportation, um, which we have
an article about teleportation. Yeah. Gina Davis features as a journalist. Yeah,

(20:48):
she's invested. She's here to do a story about his
teleportation research. He has a telepod. Yeah, he has two telepods.
They look kind of like phone boosts, big fancy futuristic
black phone boots. And the idea is that a personal
be able to enter one of them and then they
will be like digitized, you know, turned into energy and
streamed across the room into another telepod, which will then
reassemble the digital information and you know, bam, you walk

(21:10):
out of the second pod. I wonder if they knew
about entanglement back in that, back in the day. Well, there's, uh,
it's something like entanglement happens because the plot basically is
just as it wasn't like the previous versions of this.
His DNA ends up scrambled with that of a house fly.
Like he finally figures out how it works. I mean,

(21:31):
you're doing all this important work on teleportation. But then
he gets careless. Yeah, he like jumps in there. It's
the middle of the nine and he's like all right,
takes his clothes off, climbs in the telepod. Doesn't see
that the fly goes in with him, and uh it
really doesn't realize it for a while because he comes
out of the other end and feels great. Feels stronger
like a man, more like a man. Um it you know,

(21:52):
ends up being a little more amorous. I think it's
the word um. And then he starts getting sick. Yeah, yeah,
I think he starts getting sick. Body parts start falling off,
his body continues to change. He's dying, yeah, and then
he realizes that he his body is is changing into
that of some grotesque fly human hybrid and uh, and

(22:16):
it's it's extra disturbing because, as the critics have pointed out,
the first maybe I don't know IF's the first half,
but the first chunk of the film kind of feels
like a romantic comedy, you know, like gold Bloom's characters
really likable. He's a little you know, centric, but centric,
but he's uh, you like him, you know. And Julia Roberts,
she's lovely and you really wanted to work out. It's
not Julia Roberts Gina Davis for Julia in the Fly.

(22:40):
No Gina is better, right, Um, so yeah, you really
wanted to work out for these two love birds. And
then uh, you know, genetic chaos and sues. Let's hear
from Let's hear from Seth Brendel. Oh yeah, there are
a lot of great Brundle quotes in this, but I
won't be able to do it justice. But jud's a
part where he's rambling. He's like, the disease has just

(23:03):
revealed its purpose. We don't have to worry about contagion anymore.
I know what the disease wants. It wants to turn
me into something else. That's not too terrible, is it.
Most people would give anything to be turned into something else.
You know, it's and so I imagine that with a
much more gold bloomy kind of you know, craziness to it.
But but yeah, it's about It's kind of like about

(23:23):
like the dude finds out that his body's betraying him. Yeah,
and it mirrors a lot of things that are going
on in in the eighties and and specifically some high
profile reminders of death in the eighties. So there's the
euphoria of of drug addiction kind of mirrored in the
in the fly and um, the middle of the night
terrors of the cancer patient. And lastly, really the hopelessness

(23:46):
and the and the need of an AIDS victim. Yeah,
those these points were made by a Terence Rafferty, who
is a new York Times film critic back in the day. Yeah,
uh so so yeah, and uh and there's a guy
named Eddie Guerrero Edward not Eddie Errero, that's a wrestler.
Edward Edward Guerrero of the University of Delaware wrote a
he wrote an excellent piece titled AIDS as Monster in

(24:08):
Science Fiction and Horror Cinema. And this is pretty much
the only like academic study. Well, no, no, I con
see there being There may be other academics. I've seen
some of their academic papers that mentioned the Fly, But
this is the only academic paper I've seen that mentions
the movie Life Force, which is the naked vampire film
that Toby Hooper directed. Yes, but but that, But let's

(24:30):
get back to the Fly. Um. Guerrero argued that the
whole film is ultimately about society, you know, society's fears
about about AIDS, but in particular about single sexual liberation
and its pathological consequences. Um. Again, the first the part
of the movie is kind of like a romantic comedy.
You know, these these two love birds really dig each other. Uh,

(24:51):
and then they have sexual encounters a lot in the film,
Like it's not for kids. Uh, you know, and it
takes up a lot of screen time, his sexual appetites increasing,
and then all the bad stuff starts happening. So he
he says that it's ultimately about the idea that you
had a generation that was moving away from traditional family values.
You know, they're they're they're coming up into a more promiscuously,

(25:14):
more promisculous lifestyle, which leads to hyper sexuality, which leads
to disease and ultimately death. That's kind of a bumber. Yeah,
so that was his redound. I think Cronenberg is a
little more ambiguous when he's been asked about it in interviews.
But but that's the thing about like great art. You know,
you can you can look at it in the context
of its time and it you know, you can just

(25:36):
go wild with with figuring out what it can, what
it means, you know, the different meanings to it. But
let's get back to you what it is about science,
or at least what we think it might say about science.
You I mean, on the one level, there's this um
typical kind of mad science sense that reckless powerful science
destroys it turns you into a fly. Yeah, yeah, you're not.

(25:56):
It's just you know, forbidden knowledge. You weren't meant to
tamper in God's domain. And now you know you have
fly eyes. And there's also would flies really be so bad?
I mean they would be big, but they could see,
I mean, they could do all sorts of cool stuff. Yeah,
well that's the thing. He could do really cool stuff
for a while in the picture, but then it just
got worse and worse. But there's also this sense that

(26:18):
despite all of our scientific and technological achievements, humans are
still tragically mortal than you know, susceptible to mormidity, mortality mwr. Yeah, totally.
You can. You can, you know, send a dude across
the room and it is a stream of like digital
data or energy or something. But you know, we still
get sick, we still die, and indeed, and that's something

(26:41):
that we're we're always going to well I don't know
about always, but for the foreseeable future we're going to
be pondering that. But not to end it on a
you know, completely negative note, I'm going to mention one
last mad scientist that's also one of my favorites, and
that's Dr Kurt Leopold in the movies that that's Z A. A.
T and this was also known as The Blood Like, like,

(27:04):
who's that, I guess. Yeah, but it's also known as
the Bloodwaters of dr Z because that's what it was
titled when Mystery Science Theater did a send up of it.
But this is a mad scientist, like a really cheap,
cheaply film that like a picture. It takes place in Florida,
and this mad scientist turns himself into a giant catfish

(27:25):
in an attempt to take over the world, and it
just it's just so awkward and he just seems so
lonely and it's like really bad film. But I can't
help if I were meant to encounter or I think
if I were meant to take over the world, I
would I'm not sure I would pick being a catfish. Yeah,
I'm not sure how I thought of it. Like he's
just kind of like I'm going to totally become a

(27:45):
giant catfish. That's like step one and then like step
to take over the world. Yeah, how about that? So
those are two of our favorite mad scientists who are yours?
Tell us about him? Yeah, let us know, send this
an email, uh science stuff that hus to first dot com. Oh,
and I have a quick listener mail here for us
from Eric, who who's writing to us from Sweden, and

(28:08):
he says, Hi, I just wanted to give you a
tip for a series of really awesome novels in relation
to your discussion of the history of science. In the
latest podcast about the scientific method in its history, you
commented on Sir Isaac Newton and his work for science
and also his interest in alchemy. A great series of
novels where where this is a big part is the

(28:29):
Baroque Cycle by Neil Stevenson. It's for nerds, that I admit,
but if you don't mind the link, I assure you
you won't be disappointed. Regards Eric from Sweden. Thanks Eric. Yeah,
I've only read one book by Neil Stevenson I think
was Yes Snow Crash, but I've been tempted to read
his other gigantic novels. Indeed, Hey, if you guys have
anything you want to share with us, do you connect

(28:51):
with us on Facebook or Stuff in the Science Lab
or on Twitter too. We're love stuff. So that's all
we got today. Thanks for listening for more on this
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(29:11):
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