October 24, 2024 • 42 mins
In this episode of Stuff to Blow Your Mind, Robert and Joe discuss various demonic and godly hogs from global traditions, as well as one particular real-life hell pig that emerges from the fossil record. (Part 1 of 2)
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
I remember, indeed that in later years, the lord of
my country, knowing I was acquainted with Italy, asked me why,
as he had seen down there some lords went out
to pasture their pigs, And I laughed, realizing that on
the contrary, they were going in search of truffles. But
when I told him that these lords hoped to find
(00:21):
the truffle underground to eat it, he thought, I said,
they were seeking dear Typhon the devil, and he blessed
himself devoutly, looking at me in amazement. Then the misunderstanding
was cleared up, and we both laughed at it. Such
as the magic of human languages that, by human accord,
often the same sounds mean different things. Had so of milk,
(00:44):
humberto echoes, the name of the Rose.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. My name
is Robert Lamb.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
And I am Joe McCormick.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
All right. In today's episode, as the title indicates, and
as the quote suggest, we're turning our attention once more
to beings and monsters that may verge on the demonic,
And this time it is, of course, hogs of hell
pigs of hell, bores of the underworld, and so forth.
We've of course discussed the Garricene demoniac on the show
(01:26):
before this being Christ's exorcism of the demonic Legion into
a herd of swine, out of a man and into swine.
We did a whole episode about that in the past.
This time, though, it's more about hell pigs of one
sort or another. We're gonna explore some different territory and
different interpretations.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
That's right, monster pigs, bls of bores, and pigs of
a more heavenly sort as well. But we start a
lot of these October episodes with examples from horror movies
of the types of creatures we're talking about, and so
I figured we should do the same today. I know
this has come up on the show several times. I'm
(02:05):
not quite sure why we keep pinging back on this
movie so often, but when it comes to horror movies
with monster pigs, I have to mention the nineteen eighty
four Russell Mulkaheek killer pig movie from before the same
director made Highlander in nineteen eighty six. This was eighty four,
and the movie is called Razorback. Now I've described the
(02:27):
plot in the past as something like a combination of
Australian Texas Chainsaw Massacre and Jaws, but with a pig
instead of a shark. I stand by that. I think
that is a pretty that gives you a pretty good
idea of what you're dealing with. It's been a while
since I've seen it. I don't super highly recommend it,
Like my memory is that is extremely gooey and gross
(02:51):
like at one of the major settings of the movie
is a gray market dog food factory in the Australian outback,
so you can imagine the kind of chainsaw massacre connotations
you'd get there. There's a lot of body slop. But
it is worth mentioning as a movie because it's one
of the relatively few horror films I can think of
where the monster is a pig. I was looking it
(03:14):
up and it seems there have been several more movies
on this theme in recent decades, but I haven't seen
any of those, so this is the one I'm aware of.
And I recall that the movie does actually do a
pretty commendable job of making the bores mouth a mind
rending terror. It's just this hot, steaming maze of teeth
(03:34):
and tusks, and for most of the movie, in fact,
almost never really, you really don't see the creature's whole body.
You just see its mouth, almost like all there is
is a mouth, which I think is a strong choice.
You get a similar kind of thing in some shark movies.
Basically all you see are the gaping jaws.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
Yeah, this is not what I've seen, but I know
you admire it, or it might past backs of it,
And uh, I'm looking at some stills here right now,
and yeah, this monster pig looks amazing, like this is
this is the thoroughly deserving of the title Jaws, but
with a pig.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
I mean it does take serious boldness to approach that
as a concept, because do you can keep the You
can keep the monster hidden much more easily in Jaws
because it's underwater, right, But a boor is just running around.
Uh so, Yeah, it takes some clever photography to make
the scene convincing and heighten the tension without ever showing
(04:32):
us too much of the bore until the very end.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
I guess the thing about a bore is you can
have the boar moving through like the tall grass or
the undergrowth. To some extent and it's sort of like
it's underwater.
Speaker 3 (04:44):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right, you can have that. Uh though,
this boar, I from what I re call it's taller
than any grass in the setting. It's like a fan
sized bore. Okay, Now, as I said, I haven't really
seen any of these other recent pig monster movies. Maybe
there's some really the good ones. I don't know. I
can't say. But of course, beyond the realm of horror movies,
(05:06):
there are a lot of fascinating pig beings in mythology, religion,
and ancient literature, including good pigs, bad pigs, and everything
in between.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
Yeah. Yeah, And I have to admit I never really
looked into them all that much before, and I think
I probably kind of glossed over mentions of bores and
pigs in mythology in the past just because I don't know.
I'm I didn't have really strong opinions about wild boars.
I don't have any experiences with them. You know. I've
seen various you know, pig and pig kin animals at
(05:38):
the zoos, and they're interesting, but you know, I just
wasn't inspired. So I of course, when we were going
to do this episode, I said, sure, let's do it,
let's dive in, and I turned to one of my
favorite sources initial sources for this sort of thing. I
looked to one of folk lore's Carol Rose's books, in
this case, Giants, Monsters and Dragons and Encyclopedia Folklore, Legend
(05:58):
and Myth Great Vogue, easily one of my most loved
and falling apart books. But when I started looking around
for bores and pig like creatures, I was surprised at
how many there were. There are a lot of them.
Dozens of creatures are referenced in this book, and I
should stress that while she's pretty exhaustive in these volumes,
(06:19):
she is by no means complete in her chronicling of
global traditions. So if she has dozens, there are more
out there as well. So there are a lot of monstrous,
hellish and even divine pig bore and bore like beings
in global traditions.
Speaker 3 (06:36):
This just popped into my head. So it's not a
fully formed thought, maybe it is not worthy yet, but
it just struck me that, you know, a lot of
these animals that we see having a major role in
religion in mythology are animals that exist in both a
(06:57):
wild and domesticated form around the culture. So like you see,
you know, very common to have cattle related, cattle related imagery.
We were just talking about cattle related beings in ancient
Mesopotamian religion, and of course they would have had both
domesticated cattle and the wild orx around them. And we've
(07:18):
seen similar things with goats. You could have domestic goats
and wild goats around you. Maybe something about that kind
of dichotomy where you're seeing like the same animal body
both you know, roaming and running around and doing its
own thing in the wild, but also in a only
slightly altered form as an animal that you keep on
your farms, and that that seems to hit something in
(07:39):
the brain.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
Yeah, and definitely seems to influence the way we use
those animals in our language and our symbols and in
our mythology, you know, coming back to for instance, you know,
donkeys and assids. We talked about this in the Mesopotamian
demon episode, the idea of a ferocious sheeting and being
(08:00):
associated with a donkey, and how it seems perhaps laughable
if you're thinking from a modern standpoint about a domestic donkey,
but we're talking here about a wild creature. It was swift,
and therefore it's a fitting steed for a demons.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
Oh yeah, that's right. So what was it? The demonus
Lamashetu is said to ride on a wild donkey, but
also occasionally was depicted maybe with donkey ears.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
Yeah yeah, And to your point, we also see this
with cattle versus the you know, the wilder forms of
that creature. And we'll see that again time and time
again when it comes to pigs, bores, and pig like creatures.
The various species that compose the suborder of Suena known
as the seu of forms. These can be found around
(08:49):
the world, from wild and ferocious bores to pig like cavalinas,
and of course the wild and domestic pigs of the
genus Sus. When I told my son about this, he
thought this was rich. I was like, you're never going
to forget the genus of wild and domestic pigs because
they're Sus.
Speaker 3 (09:10):
Is it not Sus? I would have said, Sus, but oh,
it's got to be Saus.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
It's well Sus maybe, but when I read it, I'm like, Sus.
Their genus is Sus perfect us Okay, So human relationships
with these animals, of course, has entailed many different things. Hunting, consumption,
sort of just acknowledgment of their wild status, observation of
(09:36):
their behavior in the wild, and then poresigne, imagery, and associations.
These are going to vary somewhat from culture to culture
and from time to time, and at times too and
kind of counterintuitive ways that I think sometimes breaks down to,
you know, the the the idea of looking to the
wild suiforms as well as to the domestic suiform and
(10:00):
then also having different cultural influences enter into an area.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
Yeah, thinking about the cultural associations we have with pigs
got me thinking on several different frequencies. I was like,
for one thing, in our culture, isn't it funny how
we we really associate pigs with eating when eating is
something all animals do. Yeah, Like why is that? And
(10:27):
my best guess is maybe it has something just to
do with the relatively omnivorous appetites of a pig that
you know, they famously will kind of they're kind of
not picky about what kinds of things they eat. But
that's also true of many other animals that you think
of less that way.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
I think, Yeah, we end up comparing ourselves more to
the pig. And they're probably a number of ways to
sort of slice that up, right. I mean, you could
focus on the intelligence of the pig, and the domestic
pig is a pretty bright creature. You could maybe focus
on it's relative hairless. I mean, I say the pigs
(11:03):
are hairless. They do have hair, but a lot of
times they are you're seen or certainly depicted as being
kind of hairless, especially when you're dealing with like cartoon pigs. Yeah,
and we're very very strange in the way that we are,
especially with like roadside barbecue restaurants are very quick to
personify the pig and invote cartoon pigs. Eat at a
(11:23):
place where the flesh of pigs is served under the
name of pork.
Speaker 3 (11:29):
Yeah, the pulled pork restaurant where it shows a pig
and a chef's hat wearing just a shirt with like
a knife and a fork.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
Yeah, it's gonna often be horrific. So, yeah, there's a
lot to unpack and like American associations of the pig,
but if you go, you know, across the board and
throughout time, you you'll find a lot more to look at.
For instance, the wild boar is a powerful image in
medieval heraldry. It's also pretty powerful and Hindu iconography, where
(11:59):
it's at times linked to the divine, as we'll explore.
In the Chinese zodiac, the pig is associated with wealth
and good fortune. And I've heard other you know, sort
of takes on how the pig is considered in say
Thai culture, where I'm to understand that the term for pig,
which I believe is MoU, is a common nickname of endearment.
(12:22):
So something you might call a child with some endearment,
you know, some kid that you love, or your baby brother,
and it wouldn't be a put down, it wouldn't be
an insult, that sort of thing. But meanwhile, elsewhere in
time and space, here on Earth, poresine imagery of course,
has all these negative connotations tied to, as you said,
gluttony or sloth, or even to the unclean and the demonic.
Speaker 3 (12:46):
That's right, and as we often bring up in these
episodes about monster traditions, looking at beliefs about monsters, especially
monsters based on an animal, I think usually tells us
more about us and our relationship to that animal. It
does about the animal itself. That's right.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
So you know, we're going to dive into some examples
from global traditions here, but I will say that as
I was going through them and reading about them, and
some of which they couldn't find enough to really mention here,
but overall I found that you could basically divide them
into sort of three categories with a certain amount of overlap.
So there are primordial bores, often with a real emphasis
(13:25):
on a connection to the earth. You know, they run
around in the earth, they dig in the earth, kind
of as referenced in our cold open here. You know,
they are concerned with things under the soil, and they
go under the soil to get them. So they have
this connection.
Speaker 3 (13:40):
But by primordial, are you saying that they have something
to do with like an initial state of the universe
or with the creation of the world.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
Yes, like something about like the state of at least
the surface world, and we'll get into some examples of this.
Then there are also divine bores. Often these are ethereocephalic,
so you know, it's the head of a bore on
a humanoid body, but not always. There are also divine
(14:09):
bores that are just straight up like a mighty boar
that is also a god. And then another huge area
and this is one that I think ties directly into
the horror movie example that we kicked off the episode with,
and that is the bore that hunts humans, which is
basically not a huge twist because I mean, history and
(14:30):
just basic understanding of wild boars will tell you that
they are they can be dangerous prey, and we can
point to examples throughout history of even famous people, members
of nobility dying in the conquest of a prized boar,
say a boar that they have injured in an attempt
to kill, and then they themselves die of injuries sustained
(14:50):
from the boar.
Speaker 3 (14:52):
So the famous and within context somewhat ignoble death of
Robert Barrathian in fiction is based somewhat on real incidents
something it's not implausible in royal history.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
No, not at all. Yeah, I mean, and to be clear,
like wild bars can be dangerous today, and there are
fatal incidents that occur. They can be very defensive and
even aggressive if the circumstances are right. But these mythic
treatments often take it one step beyond. It's not just
that this is a dangerous game to hunt. But this
(15:27):
game actively not only hunts you back, but might hunt
you of its own accord. Like you're not even trying
to hunt the monster boar. It just goes out and
hunts people at night, that sort of thing.
Speaker 3 (15:38):
Okay, So to recaps, you've got bores from the creation,
or bores from the beginning, you've got divine bores or
heavenly bores, and then you've got the boar that eats people.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
Right, One more quick fictional example before we dive into
these examples from global traditions, I should note that in
Dante's Inferno, there are twelve named demons that compose the
Malagrantia in the eighth circle of Hell, and one of
them is clearly named with hogs in mind. This is Curiato,
(16:12):
whose name means swine or a little pig, and we
meet him in Canto twenty one, verse one two. So
that's just a quick example of a literary pig in hell.
Speaker 3 (16:25):
I don't remember what the context was, but we've talked
about the Mala bronca before they were the I think
that name translates to evil claws. And this is the
circle of demons who are shown like surrounding a boiling
lake of pitch, and there are the I don't know,
like corrupt people and grafters or something that they keep
(16:46):
having to force back down under the pitch. Pretty pretty
nasty job.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
They're demons with jobs, though they have a rope. All right,
enough of the like straight up demonic here, let's get
into some other examples. So I'd like to start in
Hindu traditions, since these traditions feature some of the most
(17:13):
divine and I think powerful invocations of poresine imagery. So
I turned once more to Nanditha Krishna's excellent book Sacred
Animals of India, in which the author chronicles a number
of different animals and talks about like their you know,
their their role in the natural world in India, conservation status,
(17:35):
and then also the different ways that they're infolked and
so the author here describes across the size and power
of wild bares creatures that are that are of course
closely tied to the earth. As I mentioned earlier, they
dig for roots in the soil and in doing so
they turn over the soil, perhaps as the author suggests,
(17:55):
informing humans about the value of tilled soil oh.
Speaker 3 (18:01):
So they could be one of the sort of like
agricultural knowledge givers in a way.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
Exactly at the same time, they're also like this natural
force that you know, might be beneficial but might also
be destructive. They can certainly hurt and kill humans, but
they can also be destructive to human agricultural pursuits because
they may raid crops, they may dig around in your gardens,
and so forth. So in essence, we have a fierce, wild,
(18:27):
but not universally hostile creature that is closely tied to
the earth. The bore both tills and fertilizes the soil,
and tradition holds that they're also tied to rain and
monsoon seasons as well, digging right before the beginning of
the monsoon. So one of the major uses of bor
(18:47):
iconography and Hindu traditions is the tenth incarnation of the
god Vishnu, and that is of Fadaha. And there are
different stories, of course concerning this incarnation, as you'll find
with just about any particular detail and the Hindu traditions,
but one of the big tales does involve a demon
of sorts. Now more precisely, it involves an Osra. This
(19:10):
is the kind of power seeking demi god that is
often in conflict with the benevolent devas. So one of
these is one of these cases where the word demon
in English seems a precise enough descriptor, but with certain caveats,
you know, like it's the system of supernatural beings can
be compared to that that you find in Christian mythology.
(19:34):
But there's still a lot of important differences, right.
Speaker 3 (19:37):
We just recently talked about this in our series on
the so called demons of ancient Mesopotamia. To what extent
that term does sort of apply and in other ways doesn't.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
In this case, we have a demon or by the
name of Hironyaksha that steals the earth itself, so rolls
up the earth like a mat we are told, and
then takes it into the ocean depth wo and yeah,
And so Vishnu is not crazy about this. So Vishnu
takes the form of a great boar, this is Vardaja,
(20:09):
and dives into the ocean to retrieve it, slaying here
in Yaksha. In the fierce battle that ensues. Then Vardaja
restores the earth, and while he's at it, teaches humans agriculture,
because again this is connection between bors and tilling of
the earth, fertilizing the soil. And I want to note
that while many illustrations and depictions of this battle show
(20:32):
Vardaja as a bore and here in Yaksha as a
human or a humanoid demon, there's at least one illustration
that depicts them both as human boar hybrids. I included
this one here for you, Joe. This is a seventeen
forty illustration by Indian painter Manaku of gular Oh.
Speaker 3 (20:50):
I like this painting though, so they're they're shown in
conflict here. Do you know which of the two beings
in the painting is supposed to be the incarnation of Vishnu?
Is the one with the grayer skin or the green skin.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
It would be the gray skin, I believe, because here
you see a regal, multi armed, noble looking poor sign
individual por sign being. And then on the other hand
you see this wild green monster that is also poor sign,
that also has the features of a bore. And I
love this imagery because you get in one image these
(21:24):
two drastically different ways of invoking the imagery of the boar,
the noble and the savage, the good and the evil,
and so forth.
Speaker 3 (21:33):
Yeah, that's right. So the vicious demonic boar here is
mouth open, its jaws kind of like to compare it
to the movie Razorback, it's just all mouth ah reaching
out with its arms to attack, whereas the Vishnu version
of the boar, yeah, it's standing with its chin up,
you know, raised in kind of lofty defiance.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
And you'll find other depictions of Varaha in which pretty
much looks like this with gray skin, the head of
a boar, multiple arms. But then you'll also find depictions
where he is just a great boar. H And I
included an image of some sculpture art that depicts this.
Now Naraka, the lord of the underworld Krishna rights is
(22:20):
also held to be the offspring of Vadaha and the
Earth via his spouse Budhevi, which I believe the sculpture
I included here, if you look at it, there is
a female figure on there, kind of like hanging from
one of his tusks. I believe that is Budhvi.
Speaker 3 (22:39):
Whoa Oh okay, So I initially interpreted this humanoid figure
to be climbing the boar, as if to climb up
its side and ride it, you know, she's hanging from
its tusk. Wow. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
Krishna also points to a couple of other Hindu entities
that feature boar iconography. There's the goddess Vadahai, an aspect
of the Goddessa. The author also mentions that the boar
is also invoked in Jainism and in Buddhism, where the
goddess ma Rici or Marisi drives a chariot drawn by
seven boors. I believe this figure also factors into Hinduism
(23:14):
and has sometimes depicted as writing a single boar, though
not always. All right, let's let's turn to the world
of monstrous boars, because one really important example in Greco
Roman traditions is, of course the Caledonian boar or the
Ittolian boar. This is a monstrous boar sent by the
goddess Artemis to punish the king of Kaleden for lack
(23:37):
of proper sacrifices. You didn't throw up the right sacrifices.
You ticked off a god. Now you have to deal
with a monster pig. It brings. Oh, it just destroys everything.
It destroys people, It destroys the town, it destroys the
land itself, and then you end up having to have
the heroes Meleager and Atalanta hunt it with their friends,
(24:00):
their allies, slay it, and then get into a big
fight with their allies over who gets what part of
the spoils from the monster pig, because we see this
time and time again, you'll have some sort of supernatural pig.
But then once you have killed that pig, its parts
are used. You know, it is it is, it is food,
it is you know, it's hide has value and so forth.
Speaker 3 (24:20):
Yeah, the drama is not done when the monster Boor
is slain. In fact, that factors into the next one
you're gonna mention.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
Right, Yeah, the Arimanthean bore. This is another monster bore
of Greek myth. This is the one that ravaged Arcadia,
and it ends up being one of the twelve labors
of Hercules having to dispose of this monster bore. King
Eurystheus tells herk you can't slay it, You've got to
(24:49):
bring it back alive. And in most of these tellings
you have this wonderful scene where of course Hercules pulls
this off, brings back this ferocious bore alive, and just
the sight of Hercules carrying this thing is so terrifying
that the tyrant king jumps inside of a jar and hides.
Speaker 3 (25:07):
So I thought this was interesting because of the way
the story ties into a weird art meme from the
ancient world that I've noticed. I'll get to that in
a second. But first of all, I was wondering if
there was any like really good ancient texts that describes
this hunt in detail. Maybe there is, but if so,
I couldn't. I couldn't find it. I didn't really come
(25:27):
across anything all that great. It's pretty sparse, you know.
It's just like, oh, and he hunted the boar down.
The best example I came across was from the text
of Pseudo Apollodorus the Library. This is the Phraser translation,
which says, well, first of all, there's a bunch of
drama with Hercules going out to hunt the boar, and
then get gets into a bunch of stuff with some
(25:48):
cinaurs and his companion gets killed. But then when Hercules,
it says quote, when Hercules had chased the boar with
shouts from a certain thicket, he drove the exhausted animal
into deep snow, trapped it, and brought it to myceny.
Now here's the funny art. Note. If you look up
ancient Greek pottery depicting this scene where Heracles in the
(26:11):
Greek returns with the boar, multiple pieces I found have
the same style of depicting the scene, so little things
about it are different. It's not like a tracing, you know.
You might have different characters on the sides of the scene,
or different sort of posture or ways of rendering the
Hercules's face and body, but the thing being shown is
(26:33):
the same in every case. So you will have down
below there's an opening of a large jar I guess
this is the type of Greek jar known as a pithos,
with the king hiding down in the jar, and you
can see like his head and hands popping up out
of it like oh. And then up above you will
have Hercules standing above the opening of the jar, holding
(26:54):
the boar up as if to dump it on top
of the king, or like to plug the king in
the jar with the boar as a cork. Uh. And
I've got at least four different m foy from ancient
Greece that depict the scene almost exactly like this Robi.
You can take a look and see what you notice
about all of these. The first one I've got in
(27:16):
the outline here is from the British Museum. It's a
it's a Greek amphora from the sixth century BCE, and
M four is also a type of jar that was
a smaller jar jar that would usually be used to
store wine or perfume or oil or something like that.
So this in for a Hercules is wearing some kind
of armor, but also his thighs and butt cheeks are
(27:38):
showing a little bit, and he's.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
He's remarkably clothed, though, I have to say yes for Heracles.
Speaker 3 (27:44):
Yes, so Heracles. He's got the boar up on his shoulder,
and the king is down in the jar like, no,
don't dump the boar on me, and the boar is
just going straight down on top of him. It looks
like he's gonna to plug him up in there. And
in most versions of this scene he's dropping the boar
head first on the king, but in one I found,
it's the last one I've got for you to look
(28:05):
at here, Rob in this case he's dropping the boar
taale first onto the king. So I don't know what
the difference is there. I am in no way. An
expert on ancient Greek art, I couldn't find anything that's
saying why this scene appears so often and looks so similar.
And I could be totally wrong about this, but I
wonder if this scene is popular to depict on Mpori
(28:26):
on jars because the king is hiding in a jar
in the scene.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
Yeah, I mean Heracles or Hercules, hero of the people
we discussed in the pad. I can't remember we're talking
about it this on a Core episode or a Weird
House Cinema episode. I think it was Weird House because
we're talking about the Mario Bava Hercules in the Underworld film.
But Hercules stands up to power like this, but he
does not proclaim himself a king, so he's kind of
(28:54):
and he's kind of a workingman's hero in that regard.
I guess, you know. Yeah, take this job and shove it,
Take this pig and shove it, right, That is.
Speaker 3 (29:01):
Exactly the vibe of these scenes here. Yeah, take this
pig and shove it.
Speaker 1 (29:06):
I like how the fourth image that you shared Hercules
is the most naked here, varying levels of nudity for
Hercules in each of them, but then the second one
you shared, Hercules is making this wild Gargonian face that
is really great, almost as if he is saying, wa
was up?
Speaker 3 (29:23):
Yeah, it's tough as Yeah, any experts on ancient Greco
Roman art out there you want to fill us in
on why this scene appears so often and looks so similar? Yeah, right,
in contact that stuff to blow your mind dot com.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
All right, let's see which what other monster pig should
I mention here? There's some that I couldn't find a
lot on. Like, for instance, there's one in Icelandic tradition.
It is called by God by God, it's a pig,
but like b E I G A D And this
apparently roughly translates to bringer of fear, which I like.
(30:08):
But then there's one from Irish legend that's really interesting.
This one is the bore of being Goldbain and in
this there's a whole story for this one. So this
is a monster that was once the mortal human son
of Angus, but upon his son's death in a quarrel,
(30:29):
the father you know, refused to accept this and refused
to accept the custom of death gold from his killer
to sort of settle the dispute. Instead, he raises his
son from the dead with dark magic into the form
of a great bore that Carol Rose says has neither
tail nor ears. I'm not sure what the significance of
(30:52):
that detail is, but if nothing else, it tends to
show you that this is an unnatural bore. It is
somehow not quite bore and certainly not man. Now. In
doing this and raising up his son like this, he's
also cursing his son's killer, Diarmid, and for telling that
the two of them, the reincarnated son here and his
(31:15):
killer Domed, are going to be the death of each other.
That he will live as long as this unnatural bore
that he's raised up, And indeed that's exactly how it
goes down. They fight, they gore and stab each other.
And I think we may have touched on this story
before in our episode about Finn McCool, because this is
(31:36):
where Finn McCool jumps in and tries to bring healing
waters to the dying warrior, and he tries three times,
but it slips through his fingers the first two times,
and by the third time the hero has already died.
Speaker 3 (31:49):
All right.
Speaker 1 (31:50):
This next one comes from Welsh traditions and I'm going
to butcher this. I know, my apologies, but it is
something like Holts do and it is. It is the
bobtailed black soal. It is definitely in the category of
the boar that hunts. It was said to be active.
(32:14):
I've seen it. I believe Carol Rose discusses it as
being connected with Salin and then with the introduction of
Christianity war that of course that has warped more in
the direction of Halloween, and then this creature becomes associated
with the devil. But in essence we're dealing with a
(32:35):
with just another boar who hunts that is monstrous and terrible,
certainly kind of like an evil monster spirit. Again, I
think the name here is hawk de Geta or something
to that effect. Again, I'm not not really good with
the Welsh tongue here.
Speaker 3 (32:52):
Yeah, I don't know how to pronounce it. Hats off
to you, Rob, But I was looking at the entry
on this one in the Oxford Dictionary of Celticthology, and
it says that this is the spectral pig later often
associated with the devil in Christianity. But the idea is
that it's a spectral pig that would rise up out
(33:13):
of the embers of a dying bonfire on the night
of this this like sort of autumn festival night, and
it would rise up out of the embers of the
dying bonfire and it would catch the last person, I
guess to the last person in some case to like
leave the festivities or to arrive.
Speaker 1 (33:34):
Oh fascinating. Well, let's see we have some other ones here.
There's a comapua. This is a Hawaiian primordial monster boar
from Hawaiian mythology the pig child who raised up the
ocean mud with his snout to form the islands and
some tellings. So again another primordial vision of the boar.
Speaker 3 (33:56):
And I like the resonance is there with the Hindu
idea of the incarnation of Vishnu that like has to
swim down into the ocean to retrieve the matt of
the earth and bring it back in this case raising
up the ocean mud from beneath.
Speaker 1 (34:10):
Yeah. Yeah, Like is there an actual connection there, a
reverberation of belief or is it just come from familiarity
with the animal, you know? And these these sort of
metaphors and ideas emerging from human observation of these animals
that they live in close contact.
Speaker 3 (34:24):
With Yeah, to be clear, I was not suggesting a
causal connection. No, no, no, no, those two myths.
Speaker 1 (34:29):
Yeah yeah, but if there if there isn't a causal connection,
it's it's clearly like observing the animal, and you know
the ideas that emerge when we see the animal and
it's on its natural turf. Let's see. Oh, Celtic legends
tell of a monstrous family of bores, like you could
probably call these ogre bores. I think that fought King
(34:50):
Arthur and his knights. May come back to some of this,
but the tellings have a lot of gorings, like just
just a whole series of gorings. They're chasing these bores
around on killing off certain boars. Uh. Yeah, we'll come
back to these, because there are a few like examples
of the King of Boars.
Speaker 3 (35:07):
Did your source say which of King Arthur's knights got
got gord? Because I was just thinking because it's funny.
I know one of the knights in Arthurian legend is
sir Bars, and it would be somewhat hilarious if Sir
Bors got gored by a boar.
Speaker 1 (35:21):
I do I don't know. I don't know if any
like name Knights were God, but it's it's possible. Like
some of the particular ones I'm scanning down, I do
have notes on this. Let's say twitrich Tritch. This is
a This is one of the wicked Kings who was
transformed into a monstrous boar. So, uh, this is one
of the ones that they did battle with. Uh. And
(35:44):
then there Yeah, there are various other ones that have
names and factor into this whole like series of battles
between humans and boars. Oh, now here's another one that
Carol ro shares that that is really interesting and has
a very cool story to it. And this is concerning
a particular monster pick by the name of Totoima or
(36:05):
I've seen it also spelled dodo Ema. It's a monster
pig of the Oro Kaiva people of Papua New Guinea.
So essentially, this monster pig is a father of mortal
humans who hunts them from their birth and devours them
if he finds them. So the basic story concerning this
(36:26):
monster pig is that I guess at night it takes
the form of the monster pig, but during the day
it takes the form or can take the form of
a mortal man. And in this form, toto Ema couples
with human women, producing human offspring, which then at night,
in the form of the beast, he seeks out and
(36:46):
he consumes if he finds them.
Speaker 3 (36:48):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (36:49):
But then one woman ends up birthing twins, and of
course he does what he always does in bore form.
He chases after them to consume them. But when them
he's only able to consume the boy twin and the
female escapes. Well, the twins mother, she's not gonna take this,
she stands up to it. So she goes to a
shaman and the shaman casts a spell that causes the
(37:12):
boy to grow rapidly into adulthood inside of Totoima's stomach
and then bursting out of him, killing the monster pig
in the process. And then the shaman marries the daughter.
The people feast on the body of Totoima, and in
doing so they consume his power, his supernatural power. They
absorb it, and then this story is echoed in all
(37:34):
of the boar feasts to follow in this culture.
Speaker 3 (37:37):
Oh. Interesting, So the boy explodes out of the belly
of the boar by growing rapidly, But does that mean
the boy survives?
Speaker 1 (37:45):
Yeah, I guess he either I'm not sure of the
details of the spell. Maybe he reforms and then grows,
or maybe the monster consumed him whole, as we see,
of course, in a lot of stories of monsters consuming people.
They are swallowed whole, and then there's this chance for
them to escape somehow, you know, clearly a popular idea,
even in modern fiction and science fiction.
Speaker 3 (38:06):
Yeah, I guess I'm more familiar with stories along these
lines where like, oh, you know, the little red Riding Hood,
the hunter comes along and cuts open the wolf's stomach
and everybody and everybody gets out. But I love this
version with the magic spell that causes the yeah, the
eating child to grow and explode from the inside, and.
Speaker 1 (38:25):
Then they eat the monster. Again. We see allusion to
this in the Greek traditions as well. I'm not saying
every monster boar ends up being consumed, but it does
seem to be kind of a frequent idea, like it
is a rare kind of this rare case where the
monster is both ferocious and also on the menu for
human beings.
Speaker 3 (38:46):
Yeah, yeah, I guess that's interesting. Where you know that
the pig occupies this middle space between somewhere between just
herbivorous prey animal and carnivore, which is, you know, carnivore
is not usually thought of as great eating. Uh, not
to say people wouldn't eat a you know, eat a
wolf or whatever, but yeah, exactly, but that, like the
(39:07):
pig is sort of it's in both camps.
Speaker 1 (39:09):
Yeah, okay, two more, just real quick ones here. Speaking
of pigs that are eaten there, there is also the
eternally regenerating roasting pig of Valhallah. This is SATs from
there or so Soakram there, whose name just means blackened.
Speaker 3 (39:25):
I believe.
Speaker 1 (39:27):
I think we've touched on him before, but that's his
entire role. I don't think he has much of a backstory.
He's just a never ending feast pig that regenerates.
Speaker 3 (39:36):
So this is not so much pig as pig, but
divine pig as pork.
Speaker 1 (39:40):
Right yeah, yeah. And then there is at least one
supernatural pig or boar worth talking about here from Chinese traditions,
and that is pingfing or bingfing. This is a black
boar with either I think some tellings the head of
a human, but most of the sellings that I was
reading about it's a boar head at either end. So
(40:03):
kind of like the what the push me, pull me
from Doctor Dolittle, Doctor Dolittle, Of course, yes, there's like
a creature like this to push me, pull me in
that where it has a head on either side. It's
the This is the push me pull me of bores
and Chinese mythology. Wow, this is the variation that appears
in the classic texts of the Shanghaijing, the classic of
(40:23):
mountains and seas that we've touched on the show before,
and as with other two headed creatures, said to be
quite obstinate, according to Richard Strasburg in the book A
Chinese Bestiary. So, I guess in this, you know, it's
like you have a two headed animal. Which one's in charge,
which one's the boss? Well, they're both the boss. You
have to talk to both ends of the.
Speaker 3 (40:42):
Pig, especially stubborn. Yeah. Stubbornness comes from the head.
Speaker 1 (40:47):
Yeah. So again, this is just a brief overview of
some of the varieties and and some of like the
basic tropes you seem to encounter with mythic pigs, mythic bores,
and so forth. I'm sure there are some other interesting
ones that I didn't run across enough details regarding so
if you have a favorite, write in share them. We
would love to hear about your hell pig.
Speaker 3 (41:09):
All right, Well, it looks like we're out of time
for today, but we are not done with the topic
of monster pigs. So if you can't get enough you
want to learn about more monster pigs, and in fact,
monster pigs not only in myth and legend, but in reality,
come back and join us on Tuesday. All right.
Speaker 1 (41:27):
Just a reminder to everyone out there that Stuff to
Blow Your Mind is primarily a science and culture podcast
with core episodes on Tuesdays and Thursdays, episodes that are
more likely to be monstrous and horror themed during the
month of October, and then we do a short form
episode on Wednesdays, and then on Fridays we set aside
most serious concerns to just talk about a weird film
on Weird House Cinema. Oh and just a reminder if
(41:49):
you're on Instagram out there, you can follow us at
STBYM podcast. And if you would like to get a
Stuff to Blow your Mind Halloween shirt sticker or what
have you, check out our teap public store that should
be linked on the Instagram that should also be linked
on our page at stuff to Blow Yourmind dot com.
Speaker 3 (42:06):
Huge thanks as always to our excellent audio producer JJ Posway.
If you would like to get in touch with us
with feedback on this episode or any other, to suggest
a topic for the future, or just to say hello,
you can email us at contact at stuff to Blow
your Mind dot com.
Speaker 2 (42:28):
Stuff to Blow Your Mind is production of iHeartRadio. For
more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
I remember, indeed that in later years, the lord of
my country, knowing I was acquainted with Italy, asked me why,
as he had seen down there some lords went out
to pasture their pigs, And I laughed, realizing that on
the contrary, they were going in search of truffles. But
when I told him that these lords hoped to find
(00:21):
the truffle underground to eat it, he thought, I said,
they were seeking dear Typhon the devil, and he blessed
himself devoutly, looking at me in amazement. Then the misunderstanding
was cleared up, and we both laughed at it. Such
as the magic of human languages that, by human accord,
often the same sounds mean different things. Had so of milk,
(00:44):
humberto echoes, the name of the Rose.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. My name
is Robert Lamb.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
And I am Joe McCormick.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
All right. In today's episode, as the title indicates, and
as the quote suggest, we're turning our attention once more
to beings and monsters that may verge on the demonic,
And this time it is, of course, hogs of hell
pigs of hell, bores of the underworld, and so forth.
We've of course discussed the Garricene demoniac on the show
(01:26):
before this being Christ's exorcism of the demonic Legion into
a herd of swine, out of a man and into swine.
We did a whole episode about that in the past.
This time, though, it's more about hell pigs of one
sort or another. We're gonna explore some different territory and
different interpretations.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
That's right, monster pigs, bls of bores, and pigs of
a more heavenly sort as well. But we start a
lot of these October episodes with examples from horror movies
of the types of creatures we're talking about, and so
I figured we should do the same today. I know
this has come up on the show several times. I'm
(02:05):
not quite sure why we keep pinging back on this
movie so often, but when it comes to horror movies
with monster pigs, I have to mention the nineteen eighty
four Russell Mulkaheek killer pig movie from before the same
director made Highlander in nineteen eighty six. This was eighty four,
and the movie is called Razorback. Now I've described the
(02:27):
plot in the past as something like a combination of
Australian Texas Chainsaw Massacre and Jaws, but with a pig
instead of a shark. I stand by that. I think
that is a pretty that gives you a pretty good
idea of what you're dealing with. It's been a while
since I've seen it. I don't super highly recommend it,
Like my memory is that is extremely gooey and gross
(02:51):
like at one of the major settings of the movie
is a gray market dog food factory in the Australian outback,
so you can imagine the kind of chainsaw massacre connotations
you'd get there. There's a lot of body slop. But
it is worth mentioning as a movie because it's one
of the relatively few horror films I can think of
where the monster is a pig. I was looking it
(03:14):
up and it seems there have been several more movies
on this theme in recent decades, but I haven't seen
any of those, so this is the one I'm aware of.
And I recall that the movie does actually do a
pretty commendable job of making the bores mouth a mind
rending terror. It's just this hot, steaming maze of teeth
(03:34):
and tusks, and for most of the movie, in fact,
almost never really, you really don't see the creature's whole body.
You just see its mouth, almost like all there is
is a mouth, which I think is a strong choice.
You get a similar kind of thing in some shark movies.
Basically all you see are the gaping jaws.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
Yeah, this is not what I've seen, but I know
you admire it, or it might past backs of it,
And uh, I'm looking at some stills here right now,
and yeah, this monster pig looks amazing, like this is
this is the thoroughly deserving of the title Jaws, but
with a pig.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
I mean it does take serious boldness to approach that
as a concept, because do you can keep the You
can keep the monster hidden much more easily in Jaws
because it's underwater, right, But a boor is just running around.
Uh so, Yeah, it takes some clever photography to make
the scene convincing and heighten the tension without ever showing
(04:32):
us too much of the bore until the very end.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
I guess the thing about a bore is you can
have the boar moving through like the tall grass or
the undergrowth. To some extent and it's sort of like
it's underwater.
Speaker 3 (04:44):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right, you can have that. Uh though,
this boar, I from what I re call it's taller
than any grass in the setting. It's like a fan
sized bore. Okay, Now, as I said, I haven't really
seen any of these other recent pig monster movies. Maybe
there's some really the good ones. I don't know. I
can't say. But of course, beyond the realm of horror movies,
(05:06):
there are a lot of fascinating pig beings in mythology, religion,
and ancient literature, including good pigs, bad pigs, and everything
in between.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
Yeah. Yeah, And I have to admit I never really
looked into them all that much before, and I think
I probably kind of glossed over mentions of bores and
pigs in mythology in the past just because I don't know.
I'm I didn't have really strong opinions about wild boars.
I don't have any experiences with them. You know. I've
seen various you know, pig and pig kin animals at
(05:38):
the zoos, and they're interesting, but you know, I just
wasn't inspired. So I of course, when we were going
to do this episode, I said, sure, let's do it,
let's dive in, and I turned to one of my
favorite sources initial sources for this sort of thing. I
looked to one of folk lore's Carol Rose's books, in
this case, Giants, Monsters and Dragons and Encyclopedia Folklore, Legend
(05:58):
and Myth Great Vogue, easily one of my most loved
and falling apart books. But when I started looking around
for bores and pig like creatures, I was surprised at
how many there were. There are a lot of them.
Dozens of creatures are referenced in this book, and I
should stress that while she's pretty exhaustive in these volumes,
(06:19):
she is by no means complete in her chronicling of
global traditions. So if she has dozens, there are more
out there as well. So there are a lot of monstrous,
hellish and even divine pig bore and bore like beings
in global traditions.
Speaker 3 (06:36):
This just popped into my head. So it's not a
fully formed thought, maybe it is not worthy yet, but
it just struck me that, you know, a lot of
these animals that we see having a major role in
religion in mythology are animals that exist in both a
(06:57):
wild and domesticated form around the culture. So like you see,
you know, very common to have cattle related, cattle related imagery.
We were just talking about cattle related beings in ancient
Mesopotamian religion, and of course they would have had both
domesticated cattle and the wild orx around them. And we've
(07:18):
seen similar things with goats. You could have domestic goats
and wild goats around you. Maybe something about that kind
of dichotomy where you're seeing like the same animal body
both you know, roaming and running around and doing its
own thing in the wild, but also in a only
slightly altered form as an animal that you keep on
your farms, and that that seems to hit something in
(07:39):
the brain.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
Yeah, and definitely seems to influence the way we use
those animals in our language and our symbols and in
our mythology, you know, coming back to for instance, you know,
donkeys and assids. We talked about this in the Mesopotamian
demon episode, the idea of a ferocious sheeting and being
(08:00):
associated with a donkey, and how it seems perhaps laughable
if you're thinking from a modern standpoint about a domestic donkey,
but we're talking here about a wild creature. It was swift,
and therefore it's a fitting steed for a demons.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
Oh yeah, that's right. So what was it? The demonus
Lamashetu is said to ride on a wild donkey, but
also occasionally was depicted maybe with donkey ears.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
Yeah yeah, And to your point, we also see this
with cattle versus the you know, the wilder forms of
that creature. And we'll see that again time and time
again when it comes to pigs, bores, and pig like creatures.
The various species that compose the suborder of Suena known
as the seu of forms. These can be found around
(08:49):
the world, from wild and ferocious bores to pig like cavalinas,
and of course the wild and domestic pigs of the
genus Sus. When I told my son about this, he
thought this was rich. I was like, you're never going
to forget the genus of wild and domestic pigs because
they're Sus.
Speaker 3 (09:10):
Is it not Sus? I would have said, Sus, but oh,
it's got to be Saus.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
It's well Sus maybe, but when I read it, I'm like, Sus.
Their genus is Sus perfect us Okay, So human relationships
with these animals, of course, has entailed many different things. Hunting, consumption,
sort of just acknowledgment of their wild status, observation of
(09:36):
their behavior in the wild, and then poresigne, imagery, and associations.
These are going to vary somewhat from culture to culture
and from time to time, and at times too and
kind of counterintuitive ways that I think sometimes breaks down to,
you know, the the the idea of looking to the
wild suiforms as well as to the domestic suiform and
(10:00):
then also having different cultural influences enter into an area.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
Yeah, thinking about the cultural associations we have with pigs
got me thinking on several different frequencies. I was like,
for one thing, in our culture, isn't it funny how
we we really associate pigs with eating when eating is
something all animals do. Yeah, Like why is that? And
(10:27):
my best guess is maybe it has something just to
do with the relatively omnivorous appetites of a pig that
you know, they famously will kind of they're kind of
not picky about what kinds of things they eat. But
that's also true of many other animals that you think
of less that way.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
I think, Yeah, we end up comparing ourselves more to
the pig. And they're probably a number of ways to
sort of slice that up, right. I mean, you could
focus on the intelligence of the pig, and the domestic
pig is a pretty bright creature. You could maybe focus
on it's relative hairless. I mean, I say the pigs
(11:03):
are hairless. They do have hair, but a lot of
times they are you're seen or certainly depicted as being
kind of hairless, especially when you're dealing with like cartoon pigs. Yeah,
and we're very very strange in the way that we are,
especially with like roadside barbecue restaurants are very quick to
personify the pig and invote cartoon pigs. Eat at a
(11:23):
place where the flesh of pigs is served under the
name of pork.
Speaker 3 (11:29):
Yeah, the pulled pork restaurant where it shows a pig
and a chef's hat wearing just a shirt with like
a knife and a fork.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
Yeah, it's gonna often be horrific. So, yeah, there's a
lot to unpack and like American associations of the pig,
but if you go, you know, across the board and
throughout time, you you'll find a lot more to look at.
For instance, the wild boar is a powerful image in
medieval heraldry. It's also pretty powerful and Hindu iconography, where
(11:59):
it's at times linked to the divine, as we'll explore.
In the Chinese zodiac, the pig is associated with wealth
and good fortune. And I've heard other you know, sort
of takes on how the pig is considered in say
Thai culture, where I'm to understand that the term for pig,
which I believe is MoU, is a common nickname of endearment.
(12:22):
So something you might call a child with some endearment,
you know, some kid that you love, or your baby brother,
and it wouldn't be a put down, it wouldn't be
an insult, that sort of thing. But meanwhile, elsewhere in
time and space, here on Earth, poresine imagery of course,
has all these negative connotations tied to, as you said,
gluttony or sloth, or even to the unclean and the demonic.
Speaker 3 (12:46):
That's right, and as we often bring up in these
episodes about monster traditions, looking at beliefs about monsters, especially
monsters based on an animal, I think usually tells us
more about us and our relationship to that animal. It
does about the animal itself. That's right.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
So you know, we're going to dive into some examples
from global traditions here, but I will say that as
I was going through them and reading about them, and
some of which they couldn't find enough to really mention here,
but overall I found that you could basically divide them
into sort of three categories with a certain amount of overlap.
So there are primordial bores, often with a real emphasis
(13:25):
on a connection to the earth. You know, they run
around in the earth, they dig in the earth, kind
of as referenced in our cold open here. You know,
they are concerned with things under the soil, and they
go under the soil to get them. So they have
this connection.
Speaker 3 (13:40):
But by primordial, are you saying that they have something
to do with like an initial state of the universe
or with the creation of the world.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
Yes, like something about like the state of at least
the surface world, and we'll get into some examples of this.
Then there are also divine bores. Often these are ethereocephalic,
so you know, it's the head of a bore on
a humanoid body, but not always. There are also divine
(14:09):
bores that are just straight up like a mighty boar
that is also a god. And then another huge area
and this is one that I think ties directly into
the horror movie example that we kicked off the episode with,
and that is the bore that hunts humans, which is
basically not a huge twist because I mean, history and
(14:30):
just basic understanding of wild boars will tell you that
they are they can be dangerous prey, and we can
point to examples throughout history of even famous people, members
of nobility dying in the conquest of a prized boar,
say a boar that they have injured in an attempt
to kill, and then they themselves die of injuries sustained
(14:50):
from the boar.
Speaker 3 (14:52):
So the famous and within context somewhat ignoble death of
Robert Barrathian in fiction is based somewhat on real incidents
something it's not implausible in royal history.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
No, not at all. Yeah, I mean, and to be clear,
like wild bars can be dangerous today, and there are
fatal incidents that occur. They can be very defensive and
even aggressive if the circumstances are right. But these mythic
treatments often take it one step beyond. It's not just
that this is a dangerous game to hunt. But this
(15:27):
game actively not only hunts you back, but might hunt
you of its own accord. Like you're not even trying
to hunt the monster boar. It just goes out and
hunts people at night, that sort of thing.
Speaker 3 (15:38):
Okay, So to recaps, you've got bores from the creation,
or bores from the beginning, you've got divine bores or
heavenly bores, and then you've got the boar that eats people.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
Right, One more quick fictional example before we dive into
these examples from global traditions, I should note that in
Dante's Inferno, there are twelve named demons that compose the
Malagrantia in the eighth circle of Hell, and one of
them is clearly named with hogs in mind. This is Curiato,
(16:12):
whose name means swine or a little pig, and we
meet him in Canto twenty one, verse one two. So
that's just a quick example of a literary pig in hell.
Speaker 3 (16:25):
I don't remember what the context was, but we've talked
about the Mala bronca before they were the I think
that name translates to evil claws. And this is the
circle of demons who are shown like surrounding a boiling
lake of pitch, and there are the I don't know,
like corrupt people and grafters or something that they keep
(16:46):
having to force back down under the pitch. Pretty pretty
nasty job.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
They're demons with jobs, though they have a rope. All right,
enough of the like straight up demonic here, let's get
into some other examples. So I'd like to start in
Hindu traditions, since these traditions feature some of the most
(17:13):
divine and I think powerful invocations of poresine imagery. So
I turned once more to Nanditha Krishna's excellent book Sacred
Animals of India, in which the author chronicles a number
of different animals and talks about like their you know,
their their role in the natural world in India, conservation status,
(17:35):
and then also the different ways that they're infolked and
so the author here describes across the size and power
of wild bares creatures that are that are of course
closely tied to the earth. As I mentioned earlier, they
dig for roots in the soil and in doing so
they turn over the soil, perhaps as the author suggests,
(17:55):
informing humans about the value of tilled soil oh.
Speaker 3 (18:01):
So they could be one of the sort of like
agricultural knowledge givers in a way.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
Exactly at the same time, they're also like this natural
force that you know, might be beneficial but might also
be destructive. They can certainly hurt and kill humans, but
they can also be destructive to human agricultural pursuits because
they may raid crops, they may dig around in your gardens,
and so forth. So in essence, we have a fierce, wild,
(18:27):
but not universally hostile creature that is closely tied to
the earth. The bore both tills and fertilizes the soil,
and tradition holds that they're also tied to rain and
monsoon seasons as well, digging right before the beginning of
the monsoon. So one of the major uses of bor
(18:47):
iconography and Hindu traditions is the tenth incarnation of the
god Vishnu, and that is of Fadaha. And there are
different stories, of course concerning this incarnation, as you'll find
with just about any particular detail and the Hindu traditions,
but one of the big tales does involve a demon
of sorts. Now more precisely, it involves an Osra. This
(19:10):
is the kind of power seeking demi god that is
often in conflict with the benevolent devas. So one of
these is one of these cases where the word demon
in English seems a precise enough descriptor, but with certain caveats,
you know, like it's the system of supernatural beings can
be compared to that that you find in Christian mythology.
(19:34):
But there's still a lot of important differences, right.
Speaker 3 (19:37):
We just recently talked about this in our series on
the so called demons of ancient Mesopotamia. To what extent
that term does sort of apply and in other ways doesn't.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
In this case, we have a demon or by the
name of Hironyaksha that steals the earth itself, so rolls
up the earth like a mat we are told, and
then takes it into the ocean depth wo and yeah,
And so Vishnu is not crazy about this. So Vishnu
takes the form of a great boar, this is Vardaja,
(20:09):
and dives into the ocean to retrieve it, slaying here
in Yaksha. In the fierce battle that ensues. Then Vardaja
restores the earth, and while he's at it, teaches humans agriculture,
because again this is connection between bors and tilling of
the earth, fertilizing the soil. And I want to note
that while many illustrations and depictions of this battle show
(20:32):
Vardaja as a bore and here in Yaksha as a
human or a humanoid demon, there's at least one illustration
that depicts them both as human boar hybrids. I included
this one here for you, Joe. This is a seventeen
forty illustration by Indian painter Manaku of gular Oh.
Speaker 3 (20:50):
I like this painting though, so they're they're shown in
conflict here. Do you know which of the two beings
in the painting is supposed to be the incarnation of Vishnu?
Is the one with the grayer skin or the green skin.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
It would be the gray skin, I believe, because here
you see a regal, multi armed, noble looking poor sign
individual por sign being. And then on the other hand
you see this wild green monster that is also poor sign,
that also has the features of a bore. And I
love this imagery because you get in one image these
(21:24):
two drastically different ways of invoking the imagery of the boar,
the noble and the savage, the good and the evil,
and so forth.
Speaker 3 (21:33):
Yeah, that's right. So the vicious demonic boar here is
mouth open, its jaws kind of like to compare it
to the movie Razorback, it's just all mouth ah reaching
out with its arms to attack, whereas the Vishnu version
of the boar, yeah, it's standing with its chin up,
you know, raised in kind of lofty defiance.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
And you'll find other depictions of Varaha in which pretty
much looks like this with gray skin, the head of
a boar, multiple arms. But then you'll also find depictions
where he is just a great boar. H And I
included an image of some sculpture art that depicts this.
Now Naraka, the lord of the underworld Krishna rights is
(22:20):
also held to be the offspring of Vadaha and the
Earth via his spouse Budhevi, which I believe the sculpture
I included here, if you look at it, there is
a female figure on there, kind of like hanging from
one of his tusks. I believe that is Budhvi.
Speaker 3 (22:39):
Whoa Oh okay, So I initially interpreted this humanoid figure
to be climbing the boar, as if to climb up
its side and ride it, you know, she's hanging from
its tusk. Wow. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
Krishna also points to a couple of other Hindu entities
that feature boar iconography. There's the goddess Vadahai, an aspect
of the Goddessa. The author also mentions that the boar
is also invoked in Jainism and in Buddhism, where the
goddess ma Rici or Marisi drives a chariot drawn by
seven boors. I believe this figure also factors into Hinduism
(23:14):
and has sometimes depicted as writing a single boar, though
not always. All right, let's let's turn to the world
of monstrous boars, because one really important example in Greco
Roman traditions is, of course the Caledonian boar or the
Ittolian boar. This is a monstrous boar sent by the
goddess Artemis to punish the king of Kaleden for lack
(23:37):
of proper sacrifices. You didn't throw up the right sacrifices.
You ticked off a god. Now you have to deal
with a monster pig. It brings. Oh, it just destroys everything.
It destroys people, It destroys the town, it destroys the
land itself, and then you end up having to have
the heroes Meleager and Atalanta hunt it with their friends,
(24:00):
their allies, slay it, and then get into a big
fight with their allies over who gets what part of
the spoils from the monster pig, because we see this
time and time again, you'll have some sort of supernatural pig.
But then once you have killed that pig, its parts
are used. You know, it is it is, it is food,
it is you know, it's hide has value and so forth.
Speaker 3 (24:20):
Yeah, the drama is not done when the monster Boor
is slain. In fact, that factors into the next one
you're gonna mention.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
Right, Yeah, the Arimanthean bore. This is another monster bore
of Greek myth. This is the one that ravaged Arcadia,
and it ends up being one of the twelve labors
of Hercules having to dispose of this monster bore. King
Eurystheus tells herk you can't slay it, You've got to
(24:49):
bring it back alive. And in most of these tellings
you have this wonderful scene where of course Hercules pulls
this off, brings back this ferocious bore alive, and just
the sight of Hercules carrying this thing is so terrifying
that the tyrant king jumps inside of a jar and hides.
Speaker 3 (25:07):
So I thought this was interesting because of the way
the story ties into a weird art meme from the
ancient world that I've noticed. I'll get to that in
a second. But first of all, I was wondering if
there was any like really good ancient texts that describes
this hunt in detail. Maybe there is, but if so,
I couldn't. I couldn't find it. I didn't really come
(25:27):
across anything all that great. It's pretty sparse, you know.
It's just like, oh, and he hunted the boar down.
The best example I came across was from the text
of Pseudo Apollodorus the Library. This is the Phraser translation,
which says, well, first of all, there's a bunch of
drama with Hercules going out to hunt the boar, and
then get gets into a bunch of stuff with some
(25:48):
cinaurs and his companion gets killed. But then when Hercules,
it says quote, when Hercules had chased the boar with
shouts from a certain thicket, he drove the exhausted animal
into deep snow, trapped it, and brought it to myceny.
Now here's the funny art. Note. If you look up
ancient Greek pottery depicting this scene where Heracles in the
(26:11):
Greek returns with the boar, multiple pieces I found have
the same style of depicting the scene, so little things
about it are different. It's not like a tracing, you know.
You might have different characters on the sides of the scene,
or different sort of posture or ways of rendering the
Hercules's face and body, but the thing being shown is
(26:33):
the same in every case. So you will have down
below there's an opening of a large jar I guess
this is the type of Greek jar known as a pithos,
with the king hiding down in the jar, and you
can see like his head and hands popping up out
of it like oh. And then up above you will
have Hercules standing above the opening of the jar, holding
(26:54):
the boar up as if to dump it on top
of the king, or like to plug the king in
the jar with the boar as a cork. Uh. And
I've got at least four different m foy from ancient
Greece that depict the scene almost exactly like this Robi.
You can take a look and see what you notice
about all of these. The first one I've got in
(27:16):
the outline here is from the British Museum. It's a
it's a Greek amphora from the sixth century BCE, and
M four is also a type of jar that was
a smaller jar jar that would usually be used to
store wine or perfume or oil or something like that.
So this in for a Hercules is wearing some kind
of armor, but also his thighs and butt cheeks are
(27:38):
showing a little bit, and he's.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
He's remarkably clothed, though, I have to say yes for Heracles.
Speaker 3 (27:44):
Yes, so Heracles. He's got the boar up on his shoulder,
and the king is down in the jar like, no,
don't dump the boar on me, and the boar is
just going straight down on top of him. It looks
like he's gonna to plug him up in there. And
in most versions of this scene he's dropping the boar
head first on the king, but in one I found,
it's the last one I've got for you to look
(28:05):
at here, Rob in this case he's dropping the boar
taale first onto the king. So I don't know what
the difference is there. I am in no way. An
expert on ancient Greek art, I couldn't find anything that's
saying why this scene appears so often and looks so similar.
And I could be totally wrong about this, but I
wonder if this scene is popular to depict on Mpori
(28:26):
on jars because the king is hiding in a jar
in the scene.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
Yeah, I mean Heracles or Hercules, hero of the people
we discussed in the pad. I can't remember we're talking
about it this on a Core episode or a Weird
House Cinema episode. I think it was Weird House because
we're talking about the Mario Bava Hercules in the Underworld film.
But Hercules stands up to power like this, but he
does not proclaim himself a king, so he's kind of
(28:54):
and he's kind of a workingman's hero in that regard.
I guess, you know. Yeah, take this job and shove it,
Take this pig and shove it, right, That is.
Speaker 3 (29:01):
Exactly the vibe of these scenes here. Yeah, take this
pig and shove it.
Speaker 1 (29:06):
I like how the fourth image that you shared Hercules
is the most naked here, varying levels of nudity for
Hercules in each of them, but then the second one
you shared, Hercules is making this wild Gargonian face that
is really great, almost as if he is saying, wa
was up?
Speaker 3 (29:23):
Yeah, it's tough as Yeah, any experts on ancient Greco
Roman art out there you want to fill us in
on why this scene appears so often and looks so similar? Yeah, right,
in contact that stuff to blow your mind dot com.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
All right, let's see which what other monster pig should
I mention here? There's some that I couldn't find a
lot on. Like, for instance, there's one in Icelandic tradition.
It is called by God by God, it's a pig,
but like b E I G A D And this
apparently roughly translates to bringer of fear, which I like.
(30:08):
But then there's one from Irish legend that's really interesting.
This one is the bore of being Goldbain and in
this there's a whole story for this one. So this
is a monster that was once the mortal human son
of Angus, but upon his son's death in a quarrel,
(30:29):
the father you know, refused to accept this and refused
to accept the custom of death gold from his killer
to sort of settle the dispute. Instead, he raises his
son from the dead with dark magic into the form
of a great bore that Carol Rose says has neither
tail nor ears. I'm not sure what the significance of
(30:52):
that detail is, but if nothing else, it tends to
show you that this is an unnatural bore. It is
somehow not quite bore and certainly not man. Now. In
doing this and raising up his son like this, he's
also cursing his son's killer, Diarmid, and for telling that
the two of them, the reincarnated son here and his
(31:15):
killer Domed, are going to be the death of each other.
That he will live as long as this unnatural bore
that he's raised up, And indeed that's exactly how it
goes down. They fight, they gore and stab each other.
And I think we may have touched on this story
before in our episode about Finn McCool, because this is
(31:36):
where Finn McCool jumps in and tries to bring healing
waters to the dying warrior, and he tries three times,
but it slips through his fingers the first two times,
and by the third time the hero has already died.
Speaker 3 (31:49):
All right.
Speaker 1 (31:50):
This next one comes from Welsh traditions and I'm going
to butcher this. I know, my apologies, but it is
something like Holts do and it is. It is the
bobtailed black soal. It is definitely in the category of
the boar that hunts. It was said to be active.
(32:14):
I've seen it. I believe Carol Rose discusses it as
being connected with Salin and then with the introduction of
Christianity war that of course that has warped more in
the direction of Halloween, and then this creature becomes associated
with the devil. But in essence we're dealing with a
(32:35):
with just another boar who hunts that is monstrous and terrible,
certainly kind of like an evil monster spirit. Again, I
think the name here is hawk de Geta or something
to that effect. Again, I'm not not really good with
the Welsh tongue here.
Speaker 3 (32:52):
Yeah, I don't know how to pronounce it. Hats off
to you, Rob, But I was looking at the entry
on this one in the Oxford Dictionary of Celticthology, and
it says that this is the spectral pig later often
associated with the devil in Christianity. But the idea is
that it's a spectral pig that would rise up out
(33:13):
of the embers of a dying bonfire on the night
of this this like sort of autumn festival night, and
it would rise up out of the embers of the
dying bonfire and it would catch the last person, I
guess to the last person in some case to like
leave the festivities or to arrive.
Speaker 1 (33:34):
Oh fascinating. Well, let's see we have some other ones here.
There's a comapua. This is a Hawaiian primordial monster boar
from Hawaiian mythology the pig child who raised up the
ocean mud with his snout to form the islands and
some tellings. So again another primordial vision of the boar.
Speaker 3 (33:56):
And I like the resonance is there with the Hindu
idea of the incarnation of Vishnu that like has to
swim down into the ocean to retrieve the matt of
the earth and bring it back in this case raising
up the ocean mud from beneath.
Speaker 1 (34:10):
Yeah. Yeah, Like is there an actual connection there, a
reverberation of belief or is it just come from familiarity
with the animal, you know? And these these sort of
metaphors and ideas emerging from human observation of these animals
that they live in close contact.
Speaker 3 (34:24):
With Yeah, to be clear, I was not suggesting a
causal connection. No, no, no, no, those two myths.
Speaker 1 (34:29):
Yeah yeah, but if there if there isn't a causal connection,
it's it's clearly like observing the animal, and you know
the ideas that emerge when we see the animal and
it's on its natural turf. Let's see. Oh, Celtic legends
tell of a monstrous family of bores, like you could
probably call these ogre bores. I think that fought King
(34:50):
Arthur and his knights. May come back to some of this,
but the tellings have a lot of gorings, like just
just a whole series of gorings. They're chasing these bores
around on killing off certain boars. Uh. Yeah, we'll come
back to these, because there are a few like examples
of the King of Boars.
Speaker 3 (35:07):
Did your source say which of King Arthur's knights got
got gord? Because I was just thinking because it's funny.
I know one of the knights in Arthurian legend is
sir Bars, and it would be somewhat hilarious if Sir
Bors got gored by a boar.
Speaker 1 (35:21):
I do I don't know. I don't know if any
like name Knights were God, but it's it's possible. Like
some of the particular ones I'm scanning down, I do
have notes on this. Let's say twitrich Tritch. This is
a This is one of the wicked Kings who was
transformed into a monstrous boar. So, uh, this is one
of the ones that they did battle with. Uh. And
(35:44):
then there Yeah, there are various other ones that have
names and factor into this whole like series of battles
between humans and boars. Oh, now here's another one that
Carol ro shares that that is really interesting and has
a very cool story to it. And this is concerning
a particular monster pick by the name of Totoima or
(36:05):
I've seen it also spelled dodo Ema. It's a monster
pig of the Oro Kaiva people of Papua New Guinea.
So essentially, this monster pig is a father of mortal
humans who hunts them from their birth and devours them
if he finds them. So the basic story concerning this
(36:26):
monster pig is that I guess at night it takes
the form of the monster pig, but during the day
it takes the form or can take the form of
a mortal man. And in this form, toto Ema couples
with human women, producing human offspring, which then at night,
in the form of the beast, he seeks out and
(36:46):
he consumes if he finds them.
Speaker 3 (36:48):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (36:49):
But then one woman ends up birthing twins, and of
course he does what he always does in bore form.
He chases after them to consume them. But when them
he's only able to consume the boy twin and the
female escapes. Well, the twins mother, she's not gonna take this,
she stands up to it. So she goes to a
shaman and the shaman casts a spell that causes the
(37:12):
boy to grow rapidly into adulthood inside of Totoima's stomach
and then bursting out of him, killing the monster pig
in the process. And then the shaman marries the daughter.
The people feast on the body of Totoima, and in
doing so they consume his power, his supernatural power. They
absorb it, and then this story is echoed in all
(37:34):
of the boar feasts to follow in this culture.
Speaker 3 (37:37):
Oh. Interesting, So the boy explodes out of the belly
of the boar by growing rapidly, But does that mean
the boy survives?
Speaker 1 (37:45):
Yeah, I guess he either I'm not sure of the
details of the spell. Maybe he reforms and then grows,
or maybe the monster consumed him whole, as we see,
of course, in a lot of stories of monsters consuming people.
They are swallowed whole, and then there's this chance for
them to escape somehow, you know, clearly a popular idea,
even in modern fiction and science fiction.
Speaker 3 (38:06):
Yeah, I guess I'm more familiar with stories along these
lines where like, oh, you know, the little red Riding Hood,
the hunter comes along and cuts open the wolf's stomach
and everybody and everybody gets out. But I love this
version with the magic spell that causes the yeah, the
eating child to grow and explode from the inside, and.
Speaker 1 (38:25):
Then they eat the monster. Again. We see allusion to
this in the Greek traditions as well. I'm not saying
every monster boar ends up being consumed, but it does
seem to be kind of a frequent idea, like it
is a rare kind of this rare case where the
monster is both ferocious and also on the menu for
human beings.
Speaker 3 (38:46):
Yeah, yeah, I guess that's interesting. Where you know that
the pig occupies this middle space between somewhere between just
herbivorous prey animal and carnivore, which is, you know, carnivore
is not usually thought of as great eating. Uh, not
to say people wouldn't eat a you know, eat a
wolf or whatever, but yeah, exactly, but that, like the
(39:07):
pig is sort of it's in both camps.
Speaker 1 (39:09):
Yeah, okay, two more, just real quick ones here. Speaking
of pigs that are eaten there, there is also the
eternally regenerating roasting pig of Valhallah. This is SATs from
there or so Soakram there, whose name just means blackened.
Speaker 3 (39:25):
I believe.
Speaker 1 (39:27):
I think we've touched on him before, but that's his
entire role. I don't think he has much of a backstory.
He's just a never ending feast pig that regenerates.
Speaker 3 (39:36):
So this is not so much pig as pig, but
divine pig as pork.
Speaker 1 (39:40):
Right yeah, yeah. And then there is at least one
supernatural pig or boar worth talking about here from Chinese traditions,
and that is pingfing or bingfing. This is a black
boar with either I think some tellings the head of
a human, but most of the sellings that I was
reading about it's a boar head at either end. So
(40:03):
kind of like the what the push me, pull me
from Doctor Dolittle, Doctor Dolittle, Of course, yes, there's like
a creature like this to push me, pull me in
that where it has a head on either side. It's
the This is the push me pull me of bores
and Chinese mythology. Wow, this is the variation that appears
in the classic texts of the Shanghaijing, the classic of
(40:23):
mountains and seas that we've touched on the show before,
and as with other two headed creatures, said to be
quite obstinate, according to Richard Strasburg in the book A
Chinese Bestiary. So, I guess in this, you know, it's
like you have a two headed animal. Which one's in charge,
which one's the boss? Well, they're both the boss. You
have to talk to both ends of the.
Speaker 3 (40:42):
Pig, especially stubborn. Yeah. Stubbornness comes from the head.
Speaker 1 (40:47):
Yeah. So again, this is just a brief overview of
some of the varieties and and some of like the
basic tropes you seem to encounter with mythic pigs, mythic bores,
and so forth. I'm sure there are some other interesting
ones that I didn't run across enough details regarding so
if you have a favorite, write in share them. We
would love to hear about your hell pig.
Speaker 3 (41:09):
All right, Well, it looks like we're out of time
for today, but we are not done with the topic
of monster pigs. So if you can't get enough you
want to learn about more monster pigs, and in fact,
monster pigs not only in myth and legend, but in reality,
come back and join us on Tuesday. All right.
Speaker 1 (41:27):
Just a reminder to everyone out there that Stuff to
Blow Your Mind is primarily a science and culture podcast
with core episodes on Tuesdays and Thursdays, episodes that are
more likely to be monstrous and horror themed during the
month of October, and then we do a short form
episode on Wednesdays, and then on Fridays we set aside
most serious concerns to just talk about a weird film
on Weird House Cinema. Oh and just a reminder if
(41:49):
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Speaker 3 (42:06):
Huge thanks as always to our excellent audio producer JJ Posway.
If you would like to get in touch with us
with feedback on this episode or any other, to suggest
a topic for the future, or just to say hello,
you can email us at contact at stuff to Blow
your Mind dot com.
Speaker 2 (42:28):
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