July 2, 2025 • 6 mins
In this episode of STBYM’s The Monstrefact, Robert discusses uses of the manta ray in Dungeons and Dragons, the fictional Ixitxachitls and what it all seems to reflect about humanity’s relationship to real-world manta rays.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, a production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Hi, my name is Robert Lamb and this is The
Monster Fact, a short form series from Stuff to Blow
Your Mind focusing on mythical creatures, ideas, and monsters. In time.
I cover various creatures from dungeons and Dragons here on
the Monster Fact. And given that we just started a
series of core Stuff to Blow Your Mind episodes about
(00:32):
real world manta rays, I thought it might be fun
to dive into the fictional and fanciful treatment of these
amazing fish in the pages of the world's most famous
tabletop role playing game. I'll start with what's probably the
most famous invocation of the manta ray in the game,
the Cloak of the Manta Ray, a stylish but ultimately
(00:52):
very simple, wondrous magical item that's been around since I believe,
the second edition of D and D. While wearing the cloak,
which is implied to be either made from or in
the style of a manta ray, the wearer gains the
ability to breathe underwater and swim in a speed of
sixty feet per turn. That's compared to the typical Adventures
thirty feet per turn walking speed. Again pretty straightforward and
(01:17):
in a limited way true to science. Manta rays are fish.
They have gills. Also, they swim underwater and are capable
of short bursts of speed to evade threats. Apparently, some
variations of the cloak of the manta ray also enable
the wear to just polymorph into the form of a manta,
which would of course be even more exciting. But what
(01:38):
of the creature itself. While a manta ray's stat block
is seemingly absent from the current in most recent editions
of D and D, the creature did make a statted
appearance in the first, second and third edition. Indeed, if
you pull up a copy of the original nineteen seventy
seven Monster Manual, you will find stats for three different
(01:58):
varieties of ray rays, sting rays, and something called pungi rays.
The first edition manta ray is, I'm sad to say,
extremely biologically inaccurate. The text describes a giant predatory ray
that hides on the seafloor and then tries to swallow
hole any non giant creature it encounters. We're also told
(02:19):
that it will defend itself with its tail stinger if threatened.
The Monster Manual also describes how an adventurer might stab
their way out of the manta's belly, liberating themselves and
perhaps a little treasure from the creature's gullet. As we've
already discussed on stuff to blow your mind in our
core episodes on the manta rays, these creatures are filter
(02:41):
feeders and have no interest in swallowing even nome or
halfling sized prey. And they boast know stingers at all
you're thinking about sting rays. They also don't hide on
the seafloor. They may go down on occasion to feed
close to the seafloor, but for the most part they
live in the open. But I don't mention all of
(03:02):
this to shame the architects of D and D. This
was the nineteen seventies, after all, and while Westerners were
emerging from a fog of superstition about the supposed threat
of the devilfish, the complete transition to a new popular
understanding of the creature's harmless nature would obviously take some time. Plus,
the adventure RPG Dungeons and Dragons was based on various
(03:24):
pre existing fantasy and adventure stories which would have included
threatening mantis. The ideas seem to have been dropped by
the time of two thousand and eight fourth Edition, by
which point the idea of a killer Manta ray was
clearly clearly too ridiculous even for fantasy. Fortunately, D and
D also boasts another variation on the ray, dating all
(03:45):
the way back to the first edition as well, and
that is it ZiT Zi Chittal or demon rays, small
evil rays created by their demon patron, the Demagorgan. They
of course boast barbed details like a sting ray. Some
of them are actually clerics despite being fish, and they
are capable of casting demonic spells. Yet others are actually
(04:07):
vampiric it xits the Chittles, which have regenerative powers and
a vampiric bite. All three of these variations factor into
the fifth edition campaign. Out of the abyss which I
have I'm happy to admit I have played through in
its entirety, and this campaign also features at least one
dead proper Manta ray as well. For what that's worth.
(04:30):
Let's get back to this name. Though it zitz the Chittle,
I realized the name itself sounds vaguely Mesoamerican. It's creator
game designer Steve Marsh has apparently weighed in on this.
I believe this was a Q and A that he
participated in on Dragonsfoot dot Org back in twenty twenty.
Apparently he lifted this name from the nineteen fourteen book
(04:53):
The Myths of Mexico and Peru by Lewis Spence. In
the nineteen fourteen text, however, and you can find PDFs
of the song line, the name exits a chittle is
that of a cited quote Native chronicler who flourished shortly
after the Spanish conquest of Mexico, and not the name
of a manta ray monster from Aztec mythology or anything
(05:16):
to that effect. Again, none of this to shame early
D and D. I think it's all fabulous. I'm a
big Dungeons and Dragons fan, obviously, but it is interesting
to see how early twentieth century Western ideas of the
Manta ray were then reinterpreted into early Dungeons and Dragons
and how you know, maybe we've gotten away from some
(05:37):
of the misnumbers and the myths about manta rays, but
we've still found room for the idea of a monster's
Manta ray, and that remains with us in the form
of the evil spell casting and sometimes Vampiric Exits the Chittles.
Tune in for additional episodes of The Monster Fact, The
Artifact or Animalia Stupendium each week. As always, you can
(06:00):
email us at contact at stuffd blow your Mind dot com.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
Stuff to Blow Your Mind is a production of iHeartRadio.
For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, a production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Hi, my name is Robert Lamb and this is The
Monster Fact, a short form series from Stuff to Blow
Your Mind focusing on mythical creatures, ideas, and monsters. In time.
I cover various creatures from dungeons and Dragons here on
the Monster Fact. And given that we just started a
series of core Stuff to Blow Your Mind episodes about
(00:32):
real world manta rays, I thought it might be fun
to dive into the fictional and fanciful treatment of these
amazing fish in the pages of the world's most famous
tabletop role playing game. I'll start with what's probably the
most famous invocation of the manta ray in the game,
the Cloak of the Manta Ray, a stylish but ultimately
(00:52):
very simple, wondrous magical item that's been around since I believe,
the second edition of D and D. While wearing the cloak,
which is implied to be either made from or in
the style of a manta ray, the wearer gains the
ability to breathe underwater and swim in a speed of
sixty feet per turn. That's compared to the typical Adventures
thirty feet per turn walking speed. Again pretty straightforward and
(01:17):
in a limited way true to science. Manta rays are fish.
They have gills. Also, they swim underwater and are capable
of short bursts of speed to evade threats. Apparently, some
variations of the cloak of the manta ray also enable
the wear to just polymorph into the form of a manta,
which would of course be even more exciting. But what
(01:38):
of the creature itself. While a manta ray's stat block
is seemingly absent from the current in most recent editions
of D and D, the creature did make a statted
appearance in the first, second and third edition. Indeed, if
you pull up a copy of the original nineteen seventy
seven Monster Manual, you will find stats for three different
(01:58):
varieties of ray rays, sting rays, and something called pungi rays.
The first edition manta ray is, I'm sad to say,
extremely biologically inaccurate. The text describes a giant predatory ray
that hides on the seafloor and then tries to swallow
hole any non giant creature it encounters. We're also told
(02:19):
that it will defend itself with its tail stinger if threatened.
The Monster Manual also describes how an adventurer might stab
their way out of the manta's belly, liberating themselves and
perhaps a little treasure from the creature's gullet. As we've
already discussed on stuff to blow your mind in our
core episodes on the manta rays, these creatures are filter
(02:41):
feeders and have no interest in swallowing even nome or
halfling sized prey. And they boast know stingers at all
you're thinking about sting rays. They also don't hide on
the seafloor. They may go down on occasion to feed
close to the seafloor, but for the most part they
live in the open. But I don't mention all of
(03:02):
this to shame the architects of D and D. This
was the nineteen seventies, after all, and while Westerners were
emerging from a fog of superstition about the supposed threat
of the devilfish, the complete transition to a new popular
understanding of the creature's harmless nature would obviously take some time. Plus,
the adventure RPG Dungeons and Dragons was based on various
(03:24):
pre existing fantasy and adventure stories which would have included
threatening mantis. The ideas seem to have been dropped by
the time of two thousand and eight fourth Edition, by
which point the idea of a killer Manta ray was
clearly clearly too ridiculous even for fantasy. Fortunately, D and
D also boasts another variation on the ray, dating all
(03:45):
the way back to the first edition as well, and
that is it ZiT Zi Chittal or demon rays, small
evil rays created by their demon patron, the Demagorgan. They
of course boast barbed details like a sting ray. Some
of them are actually clerics despite being fish, and they
are capable of casting demonic spells. Yet others are actually
(04:07):
vampiric it xits the Chittles, which have regenerative powers and
a vampiric bite. All three of these variations factor into
the fifth edition campaign. Out of the abyss which I
have I'm happy to admit I have played through in
its entirety, and this campaign also features at least one
dead proper Manta ray as well. For what that's worth.
(04:30):
Let's get back to this name. Though it zitz the Chittle,
I realized the name itself sounds vaguely Mesoamerican. It's creator
game designer Steve Marsh has apparently weighed in on this.
I believe this was a Q and A that he
participated in on Dragonsfoot dot Org back in twenty twenty.
Apparently he lifted this name from the nineteen fourteen book
(04:53):
The Myths of Mexico and Peru by Lewis Spence. In
the nineteen fourteen text, however, and you can find PDFs
of the song line, the name exits a chittle is
that of a cited quote Native chronicler who flourished shortly
after the Spanish conquest of Mexico, and not the name
of a manta ray monster from Aztec mythology or anything
(05:16):
to that effect. Again, none of this to shame early
D and D. I think it's all fabulous. I'm a
big Dungeons and Dragons fan, obviously, but it is interesting
to see how early twentieth century Western ideas of the
Manta ray were then reinterpreted into early Dungeons and Dragons
and how you know, maybe we've gotten away from some
(05:37):
of the misnumbers and the myths about manta rays, but
we've still found room for the idea of a monster's
Manta ray, and that remains with us in the form
of the evil spell casting and sometimes Vampiric Exits the Chittles.
Tune in for additional episodes of The Monster Fact, The
Artifact or Animalia Stupendium each week. As always, you can
(06:00):
email us at contact at stuffd blow your Mind dot com.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
Stuff to Blow Your Mind is a production of iHeartRadio.
For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Stuff To Blow Your Mind News
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Robert Lamb
Joe McCormick
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