Weirdhouse Cinema: The Apple

In this episode of Weirdhouse Cinema, Rob and Joe discuss the 1980 sci-fi disco/rock musical odyssey that is “The Apple,” starring Catherine Mary Stewart, Vladek Sheybal and Joss Ackland.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind, a production of iHeartRadio.

Speaker 2 (00:13):
Hey, welcome to Weird House Cinema. This is Rob Lamb.

Speaker 3 (00:16):
And this is BIM. Excuse me, this is Joe mccor
bim excuse me. My name is Joe mccorm mick. And
I am so excited to BIM. I mean, I am
so excited to talk about today's movie.

Speaker 2 (00:29):
Yeah, I mean the bimnus is strong. The bim is
strong in this picture because in today's episode we are
going to be talking about nineteen eighties The Apple. This
is a film that has been requested before by listeners.
This is a film that I was previously familiar with
from being featured on Riff Tracks many years ago. But yeah,

(00:50):
this one is a tremendously weird and wonderful and flawed
rock and roll disco musical that is also so dystopian,
it's biblical, it's everything and more. It's like a Willy
Wonka candy.

Speaker 3 (01:07):
This is one of the weirdest movies we have ever
covered on the show. Is It's up there with like
Super Mario Brothers and the other ones that are just
kind of impossible to describe the feeling of. You just
have to see it. And this is another one that
I can't believe I made it this far in my
life without ever having seen before. It's like, right up

(01:29):
my alley. This is the kind of movie I should
have seen when I was twenty years old and watched
fifteen times since then, but this actually was my first viewing.
So I'm very very grateful to you for choosing it
this week, Rob, And it's going to be It's a
new classic. It's going to be a favorite in our house.

Speaker 2 (01:47):
I know. I watched it, rewatched it on a flight
a few weeks back, and after we selected it here,
I watched it two more times. So it's rare that
I watch a film twice in preparation for an episode
of Weird House. And I don't think I've ever watched
a film three times in preparation for a Weird House.

(02:07):
But this one's irresistible.

Speaker 3 (02:09):
But yes, now, now, what did you say to describe
its rough genre alignment. It's like a biblical allegorical dystopian
science fiction musical.

Speaker 2 (02:21):
Yeah, yeah, it is, yeah, because it's very much like
nineteen eighty four. There's this Orwellian kind of vibe going on,
you know, And then at the same time, it is
biblical in nature. This is a movie that will take
you to the hell, and in the same way that
the Coffin Joe movie that we will watch, it takes
you to the hell that I think they've those two

(02:42):
visions of hell line up rather rather well alongside each other.
But yeah, on the other hand, it's a Perils of
Fame movie. Again, it's very disco. It's also very glam rock.
It dabbles in some other musical genres as well, but
it is. Yeah, it's tremendous. It's I should also mention
it again, it is a musical. So this would be

(03:04):
I believe, only the third musical that we've covered on
Weird House Cinema, the others being nineteen sixties The Ship
of Monsters and nineteen eighty five's Billy the Kid and
the Green Bays Vampire.

Speaker 3 (03:16):
For me personally, two very strong highlights from our back catalog.
I loved both of those movies, especially Ship of Monsters.
I just think of fondly so often.

Speaker 2 (03:26):
This is a film that apparently did not do well
upon release. It was not received well by the general
movie going public. I think it was. It's a situation
where it was both a little past its time and
before its time, because certainly it's been well received in
more recent years. I mean, it has a cult following.

(03:46):
People love it. People there have been showings of it.
Sometimes they've even brought in some of the filmmakers in
the cast, and you have people showing up with the
little bimstickers on their forehead, which all sounds like a
great deal of fun. But at the time people boot it.
People walked out allegedly during some of the musical numbers,
And I think part of that is that this again

(04:07):
is a film that it's not all disco, but it
has very strong disco elements, and it comes out in
nineteen eighty that's just like in the year following the
whole Disco Demolition night thing, like sort of mainstream backlash
against disco where some people, I don't think they were
really in a position to make this claim, decided, you

(04:29):
know what, Disco's dead, Disco's lame, We're not doing disco anymore.
Kind of a backlash I guess against Saturday Night Fever
and all of its success. But also, you know, I
think also a backlash that was very much based in
homophobia and racism and you know, you don't have to
like disco, but disco's dead. Come on, that's ridiculous. And

(04:52):
disco didn't die. Disco lived on, and certainly it continued
to survive outside of this sort of mainstream backlash in
North America. Anyway, it's a bit of a tangent, but
basically I'm saying, this is a film that has sort
of mid seventies energy and it was unfortunate enough to
come out in nineteen eighty.

Speaker 3 (05:12):
All right, well, Rob, maybe you can set me straight
on this if I'm wrong. But the way I understand
the sort of market positioning of The Apple is it
was a movie that came out a couple of years
after like Greece, and so Greece was a big hit.
It was a big, you know, rock musical movie hit.
While exactly what makes it appealing to me is how

(05:34):
off the wall and it just absolutely bananas it is.
I think that probably did not appeal to a lot
of the crowd that went and saw Greece and loved it.

Speaker 2 (05:46):
Yeah. Yeah, I'm glad you mentioned Greece though, because I
think you can certainly look at this picture and you
can identify the successful buckets of content musical of content
that it's drawing from. You know, it's like, let's get
a little Grease in there, Let's get a little bit
rocky horror in there, Let's get a little bit of
god Spell in there. You know, these elements are very clear.

(06:07):
It wears these influences on its sleeve.

Speaker 3 (06:09):
In fact, there are even moments in this movie that
very strongly reminded me of Grease. Despite the dystopian sci
fi setting and all of the like vampires and devils
and everything. There's like one song in it that basically
sounds like a copy of the song Sandy from Grease,
except it's talking about ALPHI.

Speaker 2 (06:26):
Okay, I know the song you're talking about, but I've
never actually seen Greece, so I can't. Oh, okay, I
can't compare it as well, And so that that comparison
didn't jump out at me when I was watching it.
But of course I love Rocky Heart, and I love
God's Spell, I love I love a number of these
big musicals from that time period.

Speaker 3 (06:44):
You know, there is another weird rock musical movie that
has I would say significant overlap with The Apple, but
I think is widely considered a much better film and
that's Phantom of the Paradise, but that came out way
back in seventy four.

Speaker 2 (06:57):
Oh yeah, that one's also on our list to cover
at some point, and I believe Yeah, I should also
throw in that The Apple is a production of Canon films.

Speaker 3 (07:05):
Oh so, how can we leave that out?

Speaker 2 (07:07):
Yeah, we'll get into some of the details beyond behind that.
But that's kind of like the seal of excellence that
kind of prepares you for your experience with The Apple.
You know that this is a canon film, and if
you're familiar with other canon productions, you know what that
might imply.

Speaker 3 (07:24):
Well, yes and no. So on one hand, it does
have some very campy canon qualities. Cannon films are widely
known not to be unkind, but they're widely known for
being hacked, sort of like poster first movie making. It's like, here,
we have a poster of Chuck Norris holding a machine gun.

(07:45):
There's some like jungle leaves around him. We can write
a script around that, have the movie out. You know.
It's that kind of marketing first movie making, which is
funny because that exact approach to music is lampooned within
The Apple. But I would say The Apple is by far,
of all the canon films I can think of that
I've seen, it feels the most like a movie that

(08:06):
was made with genuine passion behind it. Like it may
not be executed with the sharpest ear for tone, but
this does feel in some ways like a passion project,
and there were other elements of it that do have
some of that canon hackiness, but it feels like some
people working on this movie thought they were making something
meaningful that like had emotional resonance and mattered. It feels

(08:30):
that way to me.

Speaker 2 (08:31):
Yeah, yeah, I think this was a passion project in
many ways, and not to say it was completely a
passion project, but there's there's some real authentic energy that
went into creating it here. So we're gonna have a
lot to say more to say about all of this,
but I would say my elevator pitch is basically Adam
Eve God the Devil, disco drugs and rock and roll.

Speaker 3 (08:52):
The musical I was gonna say, American Idol meets the
Running Man.

Speaker 2 (08:58):
Oh, that's perfect. Let's go ahead and hear that fantastic
trailer audio in which you'll get to hear some of
the music that makes this film so special.

Speaker 4 (09:18):
In nineteen ninety four. The world is controlled by one power.
The apple is success.

Speaker 3 (09:39):
There no good very show there.

Speaker 4 (09:49):
The Apple brings you everything but about happiness show. I
want you to release Phoebe from a contract.

Speaker 3 (10:07):
Cheers, Where is she?

Speaker 2 (10:14):
I stand long, stand along, Crown.

Speaker 4 (10:25):
The apple is the temptation. The Apple is the experience.

Speaker 2 (10:33):
Take the apple warm?

Speaker 3 (10:36):
Why apple?

Speaker 4 (10:47):
The apple is the forbidden fruit.

Speaker 2 (10:50):
Come in, take me and ship me, and mom me
and make me and fill me up with your fire.

Speaker 3 (10:57):
Come do.

Speaker 2 (11:00):
To me your little heart desire. I've never been to
high my life. Must see. I'm gonna talk to you.

Speaker 4 (11:15):
The Apple takes your soul. You got have too early.

Speaker 1 (11:22):
Everybody down in.

Speaker 4 (11:24):
Her way, fucking power everybody hour.

Speaker 3 (11:32):
I can bear the use that weekends.

Speaker 4 (11:36):
Shame fucking Powerboddy hour Now a special experience in moviegoing entertainment.

Speaker 2 (11:49):
The Apple all all right? Well, if you're convinced, you've
got to see the apple as well before you hear
us talk about it. You can find it in a
number of formats. There are multiple streaming options. I think

(12:09):
there are some like sort of free streaming options as well.
There's also a physical Blu ray from Keno lorber So. Yeah,
get your physical media, if you would or if you
would like to own the Apple forever, because like I say,
once you get into it, you're going to want to
watch it multiple times. All Right, Let's talk about the
individuals who made this film. Let's start at the top

(12:31):
with Manahim Golan. He was the director, the writer, and
of course one of the producers. He lived nineteen twenty
nine through twenty fourteen.

Speaker 3 (12:40):
Manahim Golan is the Golan in Golan Globis, which is
another the Golan Globis or the heads of Cannon films
in the eighties.

Speaker 2 (12:48):
Yeah, with Globus being your Globus his cousin. Yeah, but
Golan here Israeli film producer, screenwriter, director and co owner
of the Canning Group from seventy nine through eighty five,
which again gave us a whole bunch of stupendous Cannon films.
They occasionally busted out some critically praised movies as well,

(13:11):
like nineteen eighty five's Runaway Train, but other stuff it
was like Chuck Norris' Is the Delta Force from eighty
six or nineteen eighty one's Enter the Ninja starring franko'neiro
as a Ninja. Both of those were also directed by Goland.

Speaker 3 (13:28):
I was trying to think, what canon films have we
actually done on the podcast. I think Treasure of the
Four Crowns was a Cannon film? Was it not?

Speaker 2 (13:36):
I think you're right. You know, I was struggling earlier.
I was like, have we talked about I know we
haven't talked about a Golan film, but have we talked
about a Cannon film? And I think you're right if
that one either is a cannon film or it's so
cannony that it's an understandable mistake.

Speaker 3 (13:54):
We haven't done it on the show yet. And I
wouldn't have known this off the top of my head,
but I just saw on a list that Life is
indeed also a canon film.

Speaker 2 (14:03):
Oh man, we've come close to covering Life Force. It's
very much on the list anyway. As for Goland here
he produced over two hundred films during his lifetime. He
directed forty four of them. His first directorial credit was
a nineteen sixty three western called El Dorado that starred
Topol and when it comes to musicals, he produced a

(14:23):
good dozen of these, including nineteen eighty five's Rappin' exclamation
Point and nineteen eighty four's Break into Electric Boogaloo. But
this was the first musical he directed, but not his last,
because he also directed nineteen eighty nine's Mac the Knife,
which I haven't seen and I understand not everyone loves.

(14:44):
But it features a cast that includes Rale Julia in
the lead, Richard Harris, Roger Daltrey, and Bill Nye. I mean,
how can you go wrong with that cast, especially with
Raul Julia in the end of the league.

Speaker 3 (14:55):
It's funny that nine years after he made The Apple
he made a movie star Roger Daltrey. Because there is
a guy in this movie who I am positive he wanted.
Roger Daltrey couldn't get him. So he's like, get me
the guy you can find who looks closest to Roger Daltrey.
And that's how we end up with the wonderful Alan
Love in the role of Dandy.

Speaker 2 (15:17):
Yeah, they're like, give me the guy from Merlin. We'll
talk about that second, all right. So this is so again.
Golan was the director. He was also the writer, but
we also have story credits as well as composition and
lyric credits to a pair of individuals, the main one
of being Kobe Wrecked and this and this other individual.

(15:41):
I'm not sure if this is Kobe's wife or what
the relationship is, but same last name. Iris Wrecked and
Kobe reck was an Israeli rock producer who acted in
a handful of pictures, but his only other credited film
composition is nineteen eighty nine's The Mask of the Red
Death starring Frank Still and Herbert Lohm. What that sounds

(16:04):
great on paper.

Speaker 3 (16:05):
But they thought they could one up the one with
Vincent Price.

Speaker 2 (16:08):
I think I briefly looked into this one. I think
Lom was filling in for someone else that they tried
to get, not Vincent Price, but someone of that caliber.
But of course Lom I think he was in some
Hammer horror films as well, so you know, solid pedigree there.
And then Iris. This is her only credit, but she
also plays the character Dominique, who I think is the

(16:29):
presenter at the euro Song type of event that we're
going to talk about here in a minute.

Speaker 3 (16:33):
Oh okay, Yeah, she comes out and introduces Alphie and BB.

Speaker 2 (16:39):
Yeah. So these two individuals seem to be the main
creative forces behind the music, and we'll have a lot
to say about the music as we get into the plot.
All right, now the cast proper. We are really our
main character. We have a pair of characters, two lovers
that enter into this world of fame and sin as innocence,

(16:59):
very mentor Adam and Eve character. These are the characters
Bibe and Alfie. Bebe was played by Katherine Mary Stewart
born nineteen fifty nine, Canadian actor who was not born
in Moose Jaw. But this was her big break, so
it's kind of like, you know, reality mirroring fiction here.
In nineteen eighty four, she went on to appear in

(17:20):
both The Last Starfighter, so he did previously talk about
her in our episode on The Last star Fighter as
well as Knight of the Comet Ah. Yeah. And in
nineteen eighty seven she was in the wonderfully nutty adaptation
of George R. R. Martin's Night Flyers. That one is
also on the list for Weird House Cinema because it's ridiculous.
She did one hundred and fifty episodes of Days of

(17:40):
Our Lives from eighty two through eighty three. She did
two different episodes of the nineteen nineties Outer Limits series,
and she's still very active. She appeared on a Law
and Order episode in twenty twenty three.

Speaker 3 (17:51):
In general, I think Catherine Mary Stewart is great. I
don't I would say her performance in this movie is
a kind of inconsistent. On one hand, what the story
requires of her is to be kind of like the innocent, yeah,
the sinless character who is introduced into an evil world
and corrupted by it. But there are parts where she

(18:12):
does seem just kind of like dazed, like she's just
like wandering through the movie as things are happening. But
then there are other scenes, like especially some of her
musical numbers, where she's fantastic.

Speaker 2 (18:23):
Yeah, yeah, I think the dazed parts this is a
film where that works. Like if you look a little dazed,
you know, a little out of it. I mean that's
kind of her character for a large portion of the film.
So it doesn't doesn't, you know, knock her performance any
but but yeah's it's a great physical performance. During the
musical numbers. I'm to understand that her singing voice is

(18:44):
actually provided by someone by the name of Mary Hyland,
which you know is understandable. Not everybody, not everybody's a singer,
and this is you know, standard operating procedure. Certainly in
like say, Bollywood cinema, as we've discussed before. All right,
so that's Babie and then there is her boyfriend. Also.
This character is also supposed to be from Moose joh Canada.

(19:06):
This is Alfie, played by George Gilmore. I couldn't find
any dates on him when he was born or so forth.
I think he's still around. This is his only acting credit.
He was allegedly a member of the Scottish band the
bow Weavils in the nineteen sixties, but I couldn't find
much about that on discogs, so I'm not even entirely
sure if that's correct, or maybe I was looking at

(19:28):
the wrong bow Weavils. But it's a very earnest performance. It's,
you know, a green performance. But he's at least very handsome.

Speaker 3 (19:39):
He is very handsome. I'm a little unsure why he
has a British accent if he's supposed to be from
Moose Jaw, Canada. But I don't know. Maybe he's a
British person who moved to Moose Jaw, Canada and then
started performing alongside bb here. Yeah, this character is a
little stiff. I think a reaction to Alfie will make

(20:00):
more since when we talked about the plot in more detail.

Speaker 2 (20:04):
So those are two, you know, babes in the woods.
There are two innocents that are entering into this world
of sin. So let's talk about the people that are
active in the industry here. First up, we have Pandy.
Pandy is played by Grace Kennedy born nineteen fifty eight,
Jamaican born actress who was a successful singer and BBC precenter.

(20:25):
Now she's apparently a luxury wedding and event designer. She
had four albums out between seventy nine and eighty one,
so she's very much like the top female star in
the music industry that's presented in the film. Looks fabulous
throughout and of course has just tremendous vocal ability.

Speaker 3 (20:46):
Yeah, Grace Kennedy is great. So she's part of this duo.
And I was going to say, and it is Dandy
and Pandy, and they, I think, in contrast to our
two main characters, are really fun, devilish performances. And then
Pandy has a late late narrative change of heart and
redemption arc which works pretty well too.

Speaker 2 (21:09):
That's right, that's right. Not so not so much Dandy.

Speaker 3 (21:12):
No, Dandy's just a he's just a cad.

Speaker 2 (21:17):
Yeah, Dandy is our seductive brit rocker. This is the
one that you said was clearly they wanted Roger Daltreve
and they couldn't get him at the time. He was
out of their budget. I guess for the time being.
If only they'd made this film later, they could have
definitely hired, like wooed him away from the Highlander of
the series. But but they got they couldn't get him

(21:39):
for this.

Speaker 3 (21:40):
But you know what, Alan Love is great. He is
just a bad rock and roll man.

Speaker 2 (21:47):
Yeah. He has this wonderful like seductive, kind of sleazy
quality to him. So that Alan Love was born in
nineteen forty six, still very much around him to understand,
and he has the pedigree. He was the lead singer
of the mid seventies glam rock band Merlin. Definitely looked
them up on discog so you can see the awesome

(22:08):
album cover for their self titled release.

Speaker 3 (22:13):
Merlin seems like a band I would know, but somehow
I don't. I'm gonna check him out after this.

Speaker 2 (22:20):
He was also in the earlier British rock band I've
seen it described as just kind of like psych rock.
It was called Opal Butterfly, but he also put out
a single Can't Get Over Losing You in seventy nine,
you know, right before this film. His acting credits are few,
but he did one episode of Fox Mystery Theater in
eighty four, and he acted and composed for nineteen eighty

(22:41):
four's Pop Pirates, which actually does feature Roger Daltrey, as
well as the actor John Finch, who was in Hitchcock's
Frenzy and also in that excellent nineteen seventies adaptation of Midpeth.
Love went on to open a restaurant that was featured
on an episode of Kitchen Nightmares with Gordon Rams time
to understand that it is and has subsequently closed.

Speaker 3 (23:03):
Oh is this the UK or the US? Kitchen Nightmares?
I assume UK.

Speaker 2 (23:07):
I think it's UK. Yeah, I looked into it. I
think it's like it was like a fish restaurant or something. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (23:14):
Okay, Well, by the way, if you get if you
get a chance to look up Alan Love's album Can't
Get Over Losing You. It is funny because he's doing
the pose. He's doing like the seventies album cover pose
that you've probably seen on many albums, the one that
came up when I was searching for this because I

(23:34):
knew i'd seen it before. Is like the Teddy Pendergrass
It's time for love, but it's like where you lay
back sort of you prop up on one arm and
then have one knee bent up in a triangle shape.

Speaker 2 (23:46):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (23:47):
I don't know who decided this would be like the
look for album covers at this time, but apparently people
thought it was cool.

Speaker 2 (23:54):
Yeah. I mean, I guess it's just a pose that
invites love making. You know, it's like the individual in
the pictures, like, hey, it's thinking about birds, but love
making maybe. So Yeah, it's tremendous to take a look
at it, all right. Other members of the cast, we

(24:17):
have the great Joss Ackland in this who has a
dual role sort of kind of. He plays mister Tops,
who does not feature into the plot at all until
the very end, and then he also plays another late
character that is referred to as the hippie leader, but
I don't think has a name other than that.

Speaker 3 (24:34):
He plays the two out of nowhere characters in the movie,
and one one of them is really out of nowhere.

Speaker 2 (24:41):
Yeah. Now, it's often been pointed out on the various
film sites and write ups about this that there was
they filmed, and there was supposed to be a big
opening number set in heaven or in paradise or something.
They clearly establishes, mister Tops, that establishes the presence of
God all my li in this picture. But for various reasons,

(25:03):
it just didn't work, and so they cut it. So
that's the reason the biblical ending of the film really
seems to come out of nowhere. But Ackland's great, if
for no other reason, He's definitely a reason you want
to stick around and watch the full film. His acting
credits go back to the mid forties for stage and

(25:24):
the late forties for TV and screen. His credits include
the nineteen seventy one Amicus horror anthology The House That
Tripped Blood seventy two is The Mind Snatchers with Christopher
Walken and Ronnie Cox. He's the voice of the Black
Rabbit in nineteen seventy eight s adaptation of Watership Down.
He did two episodes of Tales of the Unexpected Lethal
Weapon two in eighty nine, The Hunt for Red October

(25:45):
in nineteen ninety Bill and Ted's Bogus Journey in ninety one.
He did both The Mighty Ducks in ninety two and
D three in ninety six, that's what the kids call
the third Mighty Ducks movie, but not D two. I
don't think he was Indy two. I think just D three,
you know, is.

Speaker 3 (26:02):
His triumphant return in the Partia.

Speaker 2 (26:05):
And then he's he's really wonderful as the wizard Mustroom
Rid Kohley, I forget how it's pronounced in two thousand
and six is the hog Father, so he often played
He's really good at playing like very serious characters. But
as his apparent in this adaptation of The Hogfather the
Terry Pratchett novel, he gets to play a very silly

(26:26):
wizard and it's a lot of fun.

Speaker 3 (26:28):
So his appearance in The Apple is categorically ludicrous. Yet
he does a pretty good job of bringing gravitas to it,
Like he's he tries to like tamp it down and
make it serious. I don't think there is any actor
alive who could really sell it and make it not
hilarious when he shows up, But Acklin does a pretty

(26:49):
good job.

Speaker 2 (26:50):
He somehow classes up the joint just by walking onto
the screen and really just just you know, using just
a few lines here and there, like he doesn't have
a huge presence in the movie, but it's kind of
like he shows up and you're like, Okay, we have
to take things seriously now, and it actually makes you
forget how unearned any of it is. Yeah, all right,
So if we have a god figure in this picture,

(27:11):
we also have to have a devil. And our devil
is mister Boogolaw played by Vladix Shayball Live nineteen twenty
three through nineteen ninety two, our chief villain, the satanic
head of BIM. A tremendous Polish actor of stage, screen
and TV. His biggest credits include nineteen sixty Three's From
Russia with Love sixty seven, Casino Royale in nineteen eighty

(27:35):
four is read Dawn, I say tremendous. I don't remember
his presence in these other films that I've seen. I
just know he's tremendous in this movie. And any time
Booglaw is on the screen, you're just captivated by what
is he going to say next? What is he gonna do,
What's he gonna do with his face? Is he going
to look directly at us again?

Speaker 3 (27:54):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (27:54):
He's great.

Speaker 3 (27:55):
He does love looking straight into the camera. It's boog
Low because when we Boglelow, yes, Microsoft word kept trying
to auto correct that to Bungalow.

Speaker 2 (28:06):
Yeah yeah, same, yeah.

Speaker 3 (28:08):
But yeah, I remember this actor from definitely from From
Russia with Love. That's one of the Sean Connery James
Bond movies where I think he plays some kind of
villain who plays chess. I think his name is Kronstein.

Speaker 2 (28:23):
Yeah. Yeah, he has a very distinctive face. Yeah. So yeah,
he also did see I was looking around. He did
nineteen eighty. It was in the nineteen eighty TV adaptation
of Showgun. He was also a regular on that old
British UFO series that sometimes pops up in Our Connections.
But yeah, absolutely wonderful. In this Booglow is just a

(28:46):
wonderful villain.

Speaker 3 (28:47):
Oh but we got some more wonderful villains to kind
of fill out the throne room of wickedness.

Speaker 2 (28:52):
Yes, there's a number of lackeys and they're all great.
The first show and we'll cover is Shake. Shake is
his right hand man, played by Ray Schell born nineteen
fifty one. I love this character essentially kind of like
a right hand man, but also kind of a snake
man sometimes actually a snake.

Speaker 3 (29:13):
Appearing in a snake costume with like a snake mouth
around his head.

Speaker 2 (29:17):
Yep. Yeah. One of several characters that is sometimes sometimes
on screen only in some sort of like bejeweled thong
type of costume and still totally works that. Shell's other
film and TV roles include nineteen ninety eight Velvet gold Mine,
but he's mostly known for his stage work and musical
theater credits. On the UK stage, he apparently originated lead

(29:40):
roles in the musical Starlight Express in eighty four and
five Guys Named Moe in nineteen ninety, and he's worked
in various big name productions. He also was apparently part
of the British new wave music scene and is an
author of several books as well.

Speaker 3 (29:56):
In a movie where some actors might have felt compelled
the phone it in Rachel, he brings his a game.
Here he is, he is giving his all to this
role and he does great.

Speaker 2 (30:07):
Yes, yeah, absolutely fabulous. There are various other stooges and lackeys.
I'm not gonna mention them all here. We'll get into
some of them once we get into the plot. I
will point out that there is a character named Bold.
There are two like Big Grimlin type dudes. They're kind
of like, yeah, they're kind of like Orcs, are kind
of like the Gamorian guards from Jaba's Palace. Their names

(30:29):
are Bulldog and Fat Dog.

Speaker 3 (30:32):
They're two. They're mister Boogalow's two bodyguards. They're both bald,
and they both have ogre teeth. They have like underbyte fangs,
which never explained why they have that, but they have
orc teeth. And when I was looking at them, I
was like, what I'm getting like calls to another movie,
and I realized, like, they look like they would fit

(30:53):
in with the cast of Alien three. They would be
like prisoners on the planet on the space colony there.

Speaker 2 (31:00):
Yeah, it's almost a little shocking that the character, the
British actor playing Bulldog Derek Deadman, isn't in Alien three,
because it would have been perfect. He lived nineteen forty
through twenty fourteen and his credits include Time Bandits, Brazil, Robinhood,
Prince of Thieves, and he also one of his last
appearances was in Harry Potter and the Sorcerer Stone. I

(31:22):
think he's like a barkeep in that. Yeah, a character
actor who just did a lot of TV work. Oh.
In another major appearance in this film. This is not
a lackey or a henchman. This is just like a
normal person outside of the industry, but we have this
land lady. Alfie's landlady is played by Miriam Margolis born
nineteen forty one, English Australian actress with extensive stage, screen

(31:44):
and TV credits, but many filmgoers probably know her best
as Professor Sprout from the Harry Potter films. She also
had a major role in nineteen ninety three's The Age
of Innocence. I believe that's a Martin Scorsese film. For
that she won a BAFTA. Also on the TV series
called The Midwife, so if you've seen the various seasons
to Call the Midwife, you've probably a senior. And she

(32:07):
also has a small appearance in nineteen eighty six's Little
Shop of Horrors. She plays the I think she's a
dental assistant or something when we get into the dentist
office scenes.

Speaker 3 (32:19):
So she plays Yeat, the landlady of Alfi in this movie,
one of the two heroes, and her main point is
that she is encouraging Alfi to stop trying to write
good music and to start trying to write bad music
that will make money because she wants the rent right right.

Speaker 2 (32:40):
But then also she's like, yeah, you're the stuff that
your unsuccessful stuff also kind of reminds me of the
good old days, so she's also supporting of that to
a point. So in many respects, she's Alfie's biggest supporter,
all right. And finally, I do want to mention that
the art director on this film is huh Jurgen Kaibak,

(33:01):
who of nineteen thirty through nineteen ninety five German art
director and production designer with credits going back to the
nineteen fifties. Of note, he won an Academy Award for
his work on seventy three's Cabaret and was nominated for
an Emmy for his work on the nineteen seventy eight
mini series The Holocaust. But he worked on a lot
of smaller budget genre films as well, including the nineteen

(33:22):
seventy two Jess Franco slasher dere Totostrascher, The Death Avenger
von Soho, as well as nineteen sixty one's The Return
of Doctor Mabuse. I'm never sure if I'm saying that
correctly Mabuse Abuse, but that one starred Gert froeb who,
of course would go on to play Goldfinger. Oh okay,

(33:45):
but yeah, German talent, I guess. Of note, because this film,
though it is seemingly sort of set in New York
like a futurist at New York City, it was filmed
in Berlin, and so throughout the picture you see a
lot of examples of really like cool euturistic looking architecture.
You see a monorail and stuff like that. That that's
because they filmed it in Germany. Hmm. Okay, Like there

(34:09):
are scenes laid in the picture where they'll be like
some sort of crazy building in the background, and you
might think, is this a map painting, and you're like, no, no,
it's just Berlin. It's just that that's what's going on here.

Speaker 3 (34:18):
Oh okay, So yeah, that explained some things I didn't
realize because I was very unclear about where the movie
was supposed to take place. You tell me, it's supposed
to be New York, okay, but it seems like it's
set in the world. It's set in Earth nineteen ninety four. Yeah, yeah, basically,
And almost to drive that point home, are are we

(34:40):
going to the plot? Now?

Speaker 2 (34:41):
Let's get into it. Let's discuss the plot of The Apple.

Speaker 3 (34:44):
Okay, we open on a sea of flags, the flags
of all the nations, like outside the UN building, and
there is an uptempo disco beat chugging along, and we
hear people letting out shrieks of excitement, so screaming crowd,
the drums are building. There's anticipation coming and then the
title reads The Apple. And now suddenly we're on the ground.

(35:07):
And to set the scene, there are throngs of people
surging through the streets toward a giant building. This building
is I would say, it's like if the OCP headquarters
were a concert Venue's this huge angular mass of concrete
that is supposed to let us know that things ain't right.

(35:27):
Also in the same frame giant metal towers and this
futuristic elevated tram or monorail. So I guess this is
probably some real world Berlin architecture. Maybe I don't know
for sure, but yeah, it is obviously used in the
context of the movie the same way the architecture in
RoboCop is used. It's to make you feel uneasy about

(35:48):
the esthetics and values of the future. It feels uninviting,
it feels oppressive. Also to let us know that this
is a bad future, we see police on boxing motorcycles
cruising around through the crowds. There's just this vague aura
of authoritarianism. And the cars. The cars are also these

(36:09):
like boxy seventies models, but with a bunch of extra
doodads stuck on top of them, like these big tall
spoilers coming off of them, and just these bubbles and
I don't know, things glued onto the hood and stuff.
It Actually it looks like the car that Homer Simpson designs.

Speaker 2 (36:25):
You're right, it really does look like like the Simpsons car.
But oh man, yeah, I love these big, boxy future cars.
I just love future cars in general when they pop
up in films, like movies we've talked about before. Time
Cop has some great future cars. Goodness, there's another one.

Speaker 3 (36:41):
I vaguely remember that what were they like in Time Cop.
Were they just like boxes with wheels and no windows?

Speaker 2 (36:47):
Basically, yeah, there were no windows on it, so in
a way they were very convincing.

Speaker 3 (36:52):
Oh but this movie has another one of my favorite
takes on the future, which is futuristic fashion. Everybody is
wearing clothes out of reflective materials, so just all the
clothes are shiny. It's like they all on the way
to the concert here decided to make tunics and conical
hats out of aluminum foil. Yeah, so out in front
of this arena, it says World Vision Song Festival. I

(37:16):
think this is supposed to be an evolution of the
Eurovision Song Contest, which I've never actually seen, so I
hope I'm not describing it wrong. But this is like
a competition where musical acts from around the world compete
for popularity and stardom. They all, like I guess, have
an original song or prepare performance, and then they it's
like American Idol, like they perform on stage and the

(37:38):
audience vote. It's deep. Do you know if that's roughly right.

Speaker 2 (37:41):
I believe that's the case. I've only ever I only
ever seen clips from Eurovision, and of course the clips
are going to be the most outlandish examples as well
as examples of things that maybe do not cross cultural
lines as easily. So there's a lot of like, what
is this weird that's going on with the clips you

(38:01):
tend to see from Eurovision, But I've never sat down
and watched it, so I don't know, like the full
diversity of acts going on there.

Speaker 3 (38:08):
I've never seen it itself, but years ago I watched
a Will Ferrell movie about it. Have you seen that too?
He played. I think he and somebody else are like
an Icelandic act that's competing.

Speaker 2 (38:20):
I remember seeing the trailers for it, but I don't
think I watched it anyway.

Speaker 3 (38:24):
So, within the context of the plot of The Apple,
the World Vision Song Festival is like the biggest pop
culture and media event in the world. We are told
that it has over two billion simultaneous viewers, and later
we will find out that it's not only the hottest
show on TV. Basically the entire culture and even the

(38:44):
government is based around it.

Speaker 2 (38:46):
Yep, yep, Like everything is writing on this contest.

Speaker 3 (38:50):
So it's like, you win this, you not only become
a big star and get a cash prize or whatever,
you essentially like become the governing party in the government.

Speaker 2 (38:58):
Yeah, your music becomes long.

Speaker 3 (39:00):
So we go inside and see see the venue, and
we see the first musical act and it is a
song performed by the characters we will come to know
as Pandy and Dandy. Pandy and Dandy are dressed like
sexual power rangers and They are surrounded by a kaleidoscope
of lights and disco dancers, and they're performing this song,

(39:20):
the theme of which is BIM. Don't ask questions about BIM.
It is a call and response song. Somehow the audience
knows the song already, so Dandy calls out. He screams
the letter B and the crowd knows to scream back,
I am, which I thought was kind of interesting because
I understood this as a contest where you played the

(39:42):
song in public for the first time.

Speaker 2 (39:45):
Yeah. Yeah, that would seem to be the case. I
don't know if they leaked notes early and they're like, hey,
Dandy is gonna say be and you need to say
I am.

Speaker 3 (39:54):
Now, it's possible. We're coming in, like in the middle
of a twenty minute long song and he's been doing
the bim b im thing long enough that the audience
has figured it out. But so, you know, they repeat
the colin response a bit and then the beat stops
and a guitar player who looks like Rod Stewart in
Hunter s Thompson Sunglasses, leans into a microphone and goes

(40:16):
do the boom.

Speaker 2 (40:20):
Bim is a tremendous start of the film. I have
to say, both musically and visually, this is one of
the top tracks. Just we get off to a great
start with the apple.

Speaker 3 (40:29):
Yes, it's amazing. It's and the constant references to the
concept of BIM and the power of BIM without any
explanation of what BIM is. That was what drew me
into this movie and just like Attached, it was like
a magnet for my mind. It kind of reminded me
of So I think we talked about this a little

(40:52):
bit off Mike, But back in the day, I saw
Highlander two The Quickening before I had ever seen the
original Highlander, so I didn't have context from the first movie.
And in Highland or two The Quickening, they talk about
the quickening, but it's never adequately explained what it is.
So I thought it was hilarious that it's this movie
where the subtitle is the Quickening and there are parts

(41:15):
were just like Christoph Limbert looks into the camera and
goes the quickening, but what is it? And that's what
BIM feels like here.

Speaker 2 (41:24):
Yeah, yeah, it's not really established what it might be,
but it's clearly important. It's a way of life, it's
a personal philosophy. It brings people together. It's what everybody
wants exactly. So yeah, the guitar player says, do the boom,
and then they do the bim. The band comes back
in and the song really gets cooking. And I cannot

(41:46):
stress enough this musical number rocks. It absolutely rocks. Yeah. Yeah,
this is not a musical number that people were walking
out during. It's impossible. You can't walk out during during
the bim. It just totally captivating.

Speaker 3 (42:00):
Now that's my subjective reaction. There's also how the like
the implied the narrative of the movie wants you to
take this song clearly, what it's supposed to impress upon
you is a feeling of overwhelming hyper stimulation. This song
is just blasting your brain. And there are fast, constant

(42:21):
cuts showing weird images, bright lights, flashing colors, bodies, reflections
bouncing everywhere, musicians, dancers. The band has at least three
different keyboard players that you can see. One of them
is playing like a gold pulpit made out of keyboards.
Another is playing a humongous, double sided, looseight key tar

(42:43):
with one end terminating in this big sharp angle, so
it's it's almost like a key tar is like fixed
with a bayonet. The band also has a horn section,
but the horns are maybe they're real instruments, but I
didn't recognize them. So if they are real instruments, they're
not ones I'm familiar with. One person is playing what
looks like a giant elongated pyramid box. Somebody else is

(43:05):
playing a capital L shaped saxophone. So I think these
are supposed to be like science fiction horns.

Speaker 2 (43:12):
And clearly they have perfected disco rock and roll, and
it requires technology that we don't have today. Only in
the future of nineteen ninety four is it possible.

Speaker 3 (43:20):
So Dandy and Pandy start singing, and here are some
of the lyrics to the Bim song. He goes, there
ain't no good, there ain't no bad, There ain't no happiness,
there ain't no sad, No it's there ain't no tears,
there ain't no love, there ain't no hate. There's only power.
Bim is the power. And then here's the chorus. And

(43:42):
I truly could not tell which of the following they
were saying. The chorus is either hey hey, hey, Bim's
on the way, or hey hey hey, Bim's the only way.

Speaker 2 (43:52):
Bim's the only way makes more sense, But I've always
heard it in my brain as Bim's on the way,
which is confusing because BIM is not on the way.
BIM is already here and established, right, mister Topps is
on the way, but we don't find out about that
until later on, much later on in the picture.

Speaker 3 (44:09):
And they don't want you to know that mister Tops
is on the way. I mean, right, I guess either way,
BIM is on the way because like, yes, BIM is
already here, but more BIM is on the way. So
it's like you're not going to run out of BIM.
There's BIM. There's continuous BIM on the way.

Speaker 2 (44:22):
BIM continues to expand, much like the universe.

Speaker 3 (44:25):
Yes, exactly, but I guess in addition to so, BIM
is on the way no matter what. But BIM, in
addition to being on the way, might also be the
only way.

Speaker 2 (44:34):
Yes, well, what else can BIM teach us?

Speaker 3 (44:37):
I don't. Oh, well, so there are more lyrics. There's
there ain't no pride, there ain't no shame, there ain't
no sympathy, there ain't no blame, there ain't no pleasure,
there ain't no pain. There's only power. BIM is the power,
uh and uh.

Speaker 2 (44:51):
Rob.

Speaker 3 (44:52):
I don't know if you have any comments on the
visuals that are accompanying this. It's it's kind of hard
to describe. It's just absolutely visually overwhelming answers the light show,
it's too much to take in.

Speaker 2 (45:04):
Yeah, it's like limbs flare like crazy, so many colors.
It's just a complete brain melting rock disco performance.

Speaker 3 (45:15):
And I think the idea is that that overwhelming audio
visual stimulation is supposed to help implant the meaning of
the song. And the meaning of the song is discard
or surrender everything that formerly gave meaning to your life.
There's no love, no truth, no beauty, no friendship. There's
only Bim. Bim is your God.

Speaker 2 (45:34):
Now do what thou. Bim shall be the whole of
the law.

Speaker 3 (45:39):
Then the crowd loves it. They are screaming for the Bim.
They want nothing more than for Bim to annihilate them
and absorb their memories. And so the song kind of
like it fades into the background and we go backstage
to a futuristic control room that is tracking the audience's
reaction to the song, and here we meet several other

(46:00):
major characters. We meet mister Bougalow, who is a physically
small but clearly powerful man wearing a purple velvet suit
and a bow tie, and he has kind of the
energy of a character in like a medieval movie who's
like a like a corrupt cardinal of the church or something.

Speaker 2 (46:19):
Strong being the merciless vibes as well.

Speaker 3 (46:22):
Yes, yes, and everyone's eager to please him. He is
the head of the Bugalow Music Company with which Pandy
and Dandy are signed, so they're like his star act
and he's eager to track their success and see that
they win this World Vision Song contest. He promises to
make them the biggest star of our decade. Also, we

(46:44):
meet Shake, who we described earlier. Shake is mister Bougolow's
top lieutenant and he is wearing a reflective metallic robe
and has this awesome ensemble of jewelry and makeup that
make him like sort of like a human precious gem.
Shake is some kind of marketing expert. He's been tracking
biometric feedback from the audience on the computer.

Speaker 2 (47:07):
Yeah again, Shake is just fabulous.

Speaker 3 (47:10):
And in the background, Boogalow has this general ensemble of
cronies and yes men, as well as the two bald
bodyguards who you know, could have been from Fury one
fifty one, or who could have been like a wrestling
tag team along the lines of like Nasty Boys or whatever.

Speaker 2 (47:27):
Oh yeah, I mean you can imagine Bulldog and Fat
Dog going for the tag team titles for sure. Fat Dog,
by the way, played by German actor Gunther Nothoff, who
I think also did some special effects work in German cinema.

Speaker 3 (47:40):
You know, I had one other comment about the fashion
that we start to notice in the scene, which is
that in the future it's popular to wear jackets, not
only with big shoulder pads. So, like, you know, jackets
with substantial shoulder padding were I think common in the
eighties and especially in eighties movies that envisioned the future,
But here they're beyond pads. The pads like curl up

(48:03):
at the ends, so your shoulders, the shoulders basically have horns.

Speaker 2 (48:08):
It's one of the many details in this picture and
a lot of you know, futuristic films of this sort,
that it really drives home that basically the way science
fiction works is like, what if all of the things
I'm uneasy about now are just more in the future. Yeah,
And that includes everything from you know, you know, dystopian
elements of society to just like shoulder pads, Like I

(48:30):
don't really get shoulder pads, but I guess in the
future they will just be even bigger. That's the only
way it can possibly go. There's no coming back from
whatever shoulder pad level we are currently at. It's only
only going to get wider.

Speaker 3 (48:42):
It's all if these trends continue. A so we cut
back to the Bim song. It's still going on Dandy
and Pandy. At this point, they're done with the lyrics
and they're just singing ha ha ha. They're like laughing
at you for being brainwashed. And at some point the
song begins to incorporate a martial arts component as well.

(49:04):
Do you remember this, like the kind shouts and yeah.

Speaker 2 (49:07):
Yeah, It's just it's like at this point they're just
in full encore mode, Like the song really should have
ended like ten minutes ago, but you can't stop once
the crowd is this end of the app.

Speaker 3 (49:17):
It ends with them singing hey, hey, hey, BIMs on
the way, like fifty times in a row. The crowd
loves it. They absolutely lose their minds. They rush the stage.
I think we can see riot police with batons having
to hold people back from the dancers.

Speaker 2 (49:34):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (49:34):
And then we're back in the control room and Shake
announces that they have achieved a new biometric record, which
is one hundred and fifty heartbeats. Maybe that's beats per minute.
I'm not sure, but I think again, the way we're
supposed to understand this is that this, like biometric information,
is reflective of a cold, calculating way to measure the

(49:57):
success of a popular song, as opposed to I don't know,
by listening for applause or something. Yeah, mister Boglow says, gentlemen,
I predict our bim song is going to take this
competition by storm. And then he howls like a wolf,
and he says he's got another henchman named Ashley. I
don't think we've mentioned already, but he's like, Ashley prepares

(50:18):
some bim merchandise and Ashley says, ooh, how about bim
T shirts. Ashley Boogleow is not impressed by this. He's like,
use your imagination, Ashley, this is nineteen ninety four, and
I gotta agree with the devil here, like bim T shirts.

Speaker 2 (50:37):
Come on, Yeah, you can do better than that Ashley
and Ashley's tremendous. He's played by British actor Leslie Meadows. Yeah,
just Key has this kind of like great, spaced out
vibe to him. It's really hard for me to nail
down exactly why I love this performance so much. But
it's just anytime Leslie is on the screen, you know,
busting out some merch ideas or whatever, it's just hilarious.

Speaker 3 (51:01):
When he reveals the bim Ball machine later, I out
lost it. Yeah, okay, So here we go to see
the next act in the World Vision Song Competition and

(51:21):
it is Alfie and Bebe performing a song called Love
the Universal Melody. They're gonna be our heroes for the film.
This is a couple of humble singers from Moose Jaw, Canada,
and they come out and compared to the bim act,
they are incredibly stripped down. They don't have backup dancers,

(51:42):
they don't have references to bim It's just a man
and a woman in like white clothing singing along with
one acoustic guitar. And actually we can hear there's a
full backing track including drums and bass, but there's no
band visible on the stage. It's just Alfie Strumman is
acoustic and the two of them singing into one microphone,
and the lyrics begin like this, You're the light within

(52:04):
my darkness. You're my shelter from the storm. When my
hope grows dim and fear shuts me in, you become
my open door. And the crowd hates it. We see it.
There's a sneering boy there. He says, what the hell
is this? And the girl next to him says, it's
a love song, but I mean, what's a love song

(52:26):
that The boy is clearly disgusted. Another guy jumps up
and screams, do the bim.

Speaker 2 (52:33):
And you know what, they're absolutely right. This is such
a stark contrast between how rockin that first number was,
and yes it's it's a tonal shift, but this number
just does not hit. It just it just it just
falls flat on the stage. And to a certain extent, Yeah,
with these characters where it seems like this is the
way we're supposed to feel, but it also seems this

(52:56):
movie wants us to feel like this track the universal
love song. Despite it, it's just tremendously sappy lyrics and
so forth that it is touching us in a place
that we didn't know still existed. It is supposed to
on some level just resonate deeply with us. And I
mean this is all subjective, but absolutely it does not.

(53:16):
For me, this song sucks.

Speaker 3 (53:18):
I completely agree. Yeah, So the way I was thinking
of it, there's two different ways to process the song,
and the one is the way we are meant to
by the filmmakers, which is that it is the wholesome
contrast to the previous song we heard. You know, the
Bim Song is a gaudy, soulless technological product, a satellite
televised golden calf designed to extract money and obedience from

(53:41):
an unthinking audience. And in contrast to that, Alphie and
Bbi are supposed to be a breath of fresh air.
Look at them. They're so nice, they're so earnest. They
come in with a song that is simple and true
and has a genuine heart in the middle of this
baffling and heartless world. But the problem is it just
doesn't match with your experience of these songs back to
back in the movie, which in that experience is that

(54:04):
from my point of view, and I think probably most
of viewers would agree, the Bim Song is awesome and love.
The Universal Melody sucks. It is so bad, and so
when the audience like get up and start booing and
heckling them, is just like, yeah, yeah, get it off
my TV.

Speaker 2 (54:21):
Yeah yeah. The reality here is that the Universal Love
Song feels like it was built by committee. It feels
like it is the hollow product of corporate scheming, while
the Bim song just like rocks its heart pumping, it
feels very much a part of you.

Speaker 3 (54:37):
Yes, yeah, totally. You could say this is a problem
with the Apple. Actually I would say it adds to
my enjoyment of the Apple. But it's a problem with
the Apple the way it is supposed to be processed,
which is that everything in the movie that's supposed to
be evil and soulless and a reflection of a world
gone wrong is so good and so much fun, And
everything that is supposed to be good and pure and

(55:00):
sympathetic is boring at best and disgustingly treaqily and fake
at worst.

Speaker 2 (55:06):
Yeah. Absolutely, Yeah. The film is will periodically preach at
you that, you know, rock, disco, drugs, sex, it's all
evil and dangerous, man. But at the same time, yeah,
they're delivering these songs about drugs and sex that are
and sometimes you know, with outright depictions of hell, there's
so much more fun than anything else that's presented on

(55:27):
the opposite side of the argument.

Speaker 3 (55:29):
So while Alfie and bb are singing, we go back
to the control room with Shake and mister Bougalow and
they start getting a little concerned because what do you know, actually,
despite the fact that the audience initially hates love the
universal melody, they start kind of quieting down. The heckling
dies down, and then they start responding well like it's

(55:50):
actually breaking through. The heartbeats are climbing on the computer screen,
and we can see like we see shots of the
audience and some of them or crying or they're like
hugging their their boyfriend or girlfriend. And Shake insists that
the song cannot actually be popular because they're singing a
love song.

Speaker 2 (56:10):
Yuck.

Speaker 3 (56:11):
Love songs are out. So ultimately, uh Boogalow and Shake
decide they decide to resort to sabotage. They insert what
is called the red tape into the PA system and
it starts playing excruciating high pitch noises over the sound
system and ruins Alfie and BB's performance.

Speaker 2 (56:32):
Yeah, and I uh, I like to think that this
is the same tape the UK government uses in the
Black Mirror episode the national anthem. You know, it's like like, quick,
get the red tape. We've got to We've got to
keep people from watching Slash enjoying.

Speaker 3 (56:45):
This, right, So I guess bim Song wins after all,
even though Alfie and BB it seems like they were
on course to win over the audience and win the contest,
but then they got cheated out of it.

Speaker 2 (56:56):
M And we cut to this great scene where Booglow is.
He's walking and talking and he's answering questions from the
international media in various languages. Is seemingly fluent in any
tongue you could possibly throw at him, because you know,
at this point, you know, this is this character is
supposed to be Satan. He is Satan. He's the pitch

(57:18):
of this picture, you know, he is. He's a demonic figure.
So of course he knows all human languages.

Speaker 3 (57:24):
That's that's right. And the reporters you're asking these questions. Oh,
one reporter's like, I understand the government has adopted your
bim Song as part of the national Fitness program. Is
that true, and I was like, Wow, that happened fast.

Speaker 2 (57:37):
It's just that good a song. People are like, Okay,
let's license it. Let's just do it. Let's make it laugh.

Speaker 3 (57:41):
Now, Rob, I think this was your note. But one
of the one of the reporters says something to him.
They're like, mister Booglow, what about something for the billion
of Americans who are watching?

Speaker 2 (57:54):
I love that this. This is another one one of
the moments in the film that just makes me laugh
for no reason that I can really identify. I don't know.
Maybe it's just kind of like the awkward way that
he asks that. And of course where this interaction is
going with this particular reporter is also kind of hilarious.

Speaker 3 (58:11):
Oh yeah, yeah, because there's also a question where it's like,
we heard there was another song that came close to
beating the bim song. Is it true this competition is rigged?
And mister Bugalow threatens him. He like pulls the reporter aside.
He's like, what's your name? Who do you write for?
You print that and you'll find yourself on the unemployment
line by tomorrow. So next we go to mister Boogalow's

(58:33):
victory party and his apartment is just full of sci
fi showbiz partygoers. I wanted to point out a couple
of great props. There is his trophy for winning the
World Vision Song Contest, which is a giant gold pyramid
with an extremely pointy top, and everybody's drinking out of
transparent drinking glasses which are gigantic, clear triangular prisms. Ashley

(58:58):
explains that these are bim glasses.

Speaker 2 (59:01):
See now, this is the Ashley magic that we were expecting.

Speaker 3 (59:05):
Right, and so booglow. He raises his bim glass and says,
ladies and gentlemen, a toast to Bim and everyone shouts bim.
And this is where we get some more of Ashley's merchandising.
Of course, there is the bimball machine, but then we
get to the really important piece of merch that will
pervade the rest of the movie, the bim mark. What

(59:28):
is the bim mark. Ashley demonstrates how it works. It
is a shiny triangular sticker. That's it. That's the bim mark.

Speaker 2 (59:36):
Yep, yep. You can wear it wherever you want to.
That's established so you have a certain amount of freedom.
But eventually it will become law that you do have
to wear one, make sure that a law enforcement can
see it on your person, you know. And obviously this
has you know, sci fi dystopian shades of like the
Mark of Cain and so forth, the East Mark of

(59:57):
the Beast and and all. So it's it's a lot
of fun. And also, yeah, clearly Ashley nailed this one.
This one's going to really catch on to the point
where it becomes a mandate.

Speaker 3 (01:00:09):
Right when Ashley debuts it, he says, you can stick
it anywhere. Mister Buglow is pleased. He commands Ashley to
make sure that everyone is wearing one immediately. And then
somebody goes up to Dandy and Pandy goes up to
Pandy and says, Pandy, may I bim unize you, and
then puts.

Speaker 2 (01:00:27):
The bim mark on her yep, right on the forehead.

Speaker 3 (01:00:30):
So mister Bugalow invites bb and Alfie to the party
at his apartment. This would seem to be, you know,
the move of a gracious winner inviting his competition to
celebrate with him, but we see them argue about it
before going. Alfie doesn't trust mister Buglow. There's just something
about the way that he is Satan incarnate that you

(01:00:51):
can't quite trust, and BB counters that, Hey, you know,
we need an agent. He could make us a big star.
He made Pandy and Dandy, he made the BIM, so
maybe he'll make us.

Speaker 2 (01:01:03):
Yeah, I mean it. This is you say what you will,
mister Buglow. But he can get things done. He is
a star maker, There's no questioning that.

Speaker 3 (01:01:12):
So they go to the party and for some reason,
when they arrive at the party, Alfie is dressed like
Indiana Jones without a hat, and BB is dressed like
a flight attendant.

Speaker 2 (01:01:23):
Yeah, they're so square. They have yet to be transformed
by the BIM. I mean, look at their shoulders.

Speaker 3 (01:01:28):
Yeah, I know, Oh where are the pads? Where are
the shoulder pads? Where are the horns? But the here
we get, like the seduction into the shallow life of showbiz. Luxury.
Boogalow and the BIM organization offer them hospitality and compliments
on their music and bowls of champagne. Yes, I said
that right. It's like a soup bowl that they offer

(01:01:50):
them with champagne in it.

Speaker 2 (01:01:51):
I've been thinking a lot recently about champagne glasses and
about how the style seems to change because I was
I really enjoyed watching the period series of the Gilded Age,
and they're constantly drinking champagne out of more like a
coup glass as opposed to like a fluted glass like
you would tend to accept champagne in today. So if

(01:02:13):
champagne in the future of nineteen ninety four is served
in a wide glass in this case, even wider than
a coup glass, in a way, it's like a return
to a previous fad and then an exaggeration of that
fad as opposed to a continuation of the current trend.

Speaker 3 (01:02:30):
Right, I would agree with that, except that it's huge.
It's like everybody gets their own individual punch bowl of champagne.

Speaker 2 (01:02:38):
Yeah. Yeah, it's kind of like the whole like punch
bowl margarita thing or where like a fish bowl margarita
right where they actually have like a gummy fish in there.

Speaker 3 (01:02:48):
Oh, and mister Boogalow makes fun of Alfie because he
doesn't drink alcohol, and there's clearly a divide, like Alfie
wants to resist their charms, but bbe she just wants
to dive. Right in Dandy of Pande and Dandy, right
from the very first moments, just starts hitting on her.
He's like, oh, would you like to go up to
the roof garden. I have unspecified pills. Would you like some?

(01:03:11):
And she's like, yeah, sounds good.

Speaker 2 (01:03:13):
I don't think he even tells her what the pills
do in even broad strokes. He's just kind of like,
they're no big deal. Would you like some? Yes?

Speaker 3 (01:03:22):
And she accepts and he's like, wow, you really are
You're a hillbilly, you know, you're from the Sticks. And
she's like, I don't understand what that means. And then yeah,
they're just having pills and hanging out and smooching. And
then interestingly, at about seventeen minutes into the movie, we
get our first song and dance number that occurs outside

(01:03:42):
of a within narrative musical performance. Did you notice this?
So it's like a little jarring because the two songs
that we've already heard were at a concert within the film.
This is the first song that's just people dancing and
singing into the camera.

Speaker 2 (01:03:58):
That's right, you know. I hadn't really thought about it before,
But perhaps because I having seen it before in the
past as a riff tracks movie and having not thought
about it too much of them, I didn't think too
much about how yet, Yeah, suddenly we're in full blown
musical mode and not just musical concert picture.

Speaker 3 (01:04:14):
But the song is called made for Me. It is
sung by Dandy to Bebe saying You're made for me,
created for me. I'll be your man, You'll be my woman.
This song getting all that great, but it does have
a great dance number associated with it, Like in the
Inside the Penthouse, we just see all of the wacky
dancers and the amazing costumes and it's Yeah, it's not

(01:04:38):
the best tune in the movie, but it is I
think one of the best dance numbers.

Speaker 2 (01:04:42):
Yeah, the tune kind of has a sort of nineteen
fifties kind of feel to it, you know, but it's
still better than anything Alfi's bringing to the table thus far.
And I like this scenes with the various party goers.
It has kind of a kind of a rocky horror
feel to it in terms of like the visuals, you know,
with all these partygoers and strange costumes, kind of like

(01:05:04):
you see in the time warp section of Rocky Hart.
But of course it's a totally different.

Speaker 3 (01:05:09):
Song absolutely, But yeah, I see what you're saying about
the visual comparison. It is similar and I love the
way it's got like at the party, like the hip
people in the squares are all singing and dancing alike.
So like the lawyers and the bodyguards are singing in
perfect harmony with all of the cool showbiz people.

Speaker 2 (01:05:27):
Yeah, it looks so fun. This it had to have
been a fun shoot.

Speaker 3 (01:05:31):
So the end of the song, Alfie comes up to
the roof garden and he catches Bebe kissing Dandy. Then
Alfie grabs her arm and they run out of the apartment.
And at this point I was wondering, like, wait a minute,
are they together or not? On it? I couldn't tell.

Speaker 2 (01:05:46):
Yeah, now that you mention it, I'm not entirely sure it.
Certainly this picture is from a time period in which
it's impossible that to a man and a woman are
not romantically linked if they are seen together, But the
movie doesn't really put in a lot of legwork to
really extrapolate on this this relationship.

Speaker 3 (01:06:05):
Yeah, so anyway, the next day we see Bogleow arriving
at his office building. He's he's dressed like a magician
whose act would be based on sawing women in half.
And also his bald bodyguards have changed costumes. They've gone
from like their white suits to these all black outfits.
And we move inside the building because BB and Alfie

(01:06:28):
show up to sign a contract with Boogleow. Alfie clearly
thinks this is a bad idea, but BB cannot be
talked out of it, so they're going to go have
their meeting with with Booglow and they've got to wait
here in the lobby of the building to meet with him.

Speaker 2 (01:06:42):
Yeah, we get in great atrium scene. It might be
like an airport or something, but certainly I get vibes
of a of a massive hotel atrium. I love it
when there's an obvious atrium in a sci fi movie
or TV show that it's it's It's often very effective
not knocking it is a is a location because it

(01:07:04):
often works. It's just something about this huge interior space,
this cathedral of modern life.

Speaker 3 (01:07:12):
Oh yeah, yeah, I agree. I think we're supposed to
understand the scene as being they're kind of like being
ground down and humiliated by being forced to wait to
see Boogalow after they've been invited, and so they're waiting
alongside all these other acts that are aspiring to sign
with him, and the other acts that we see there
in the waiting area include like a baroque vampire funk

(01:07:33):
band who brought their instruments, including a full drum kit,
a sci fi chorus dancer troupe wearing diamond bathing suits
that are they're called Ballet two thousand. We see like
these feather boa opera singers. There's a wizard in a
pointy hat and several clowns.

Speaker 2 (01:07:52):
This is the riff raft for sure.

Speaker 3 (01:07:54):
Is mister Bouglow signing clowns? Does he represent clowns?

Speaker 2 (01:07:59):
You know? I guess it's possible that he might find
the right clown that he could transform into something that
would be successful. And I think maybe that's part of
his message to them. It's like, right now, you were nothing.
You were unformed. You were at best raw material that
the bim can transform through his alchemy into something successful.

(01:08:19):
Right now, you're no better than a birthday party wizard
or miscellaneous clowns. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:08:25):
Yeah, So here we get a song sung by mister
Boogalow called show Business, where he sings about how he
plans to exploit all these people and lie to them
and trick them, and about how the world is cruel
and hollow. The chorus of the song goes, life is
nothing but show business in nineteen ninety four, we fight

(01:08:47):
for the spotlight, We kill for encore. Life is nothing
but show business. The world's a cabaret. We live for
the fortune, we die for the fame. This song is
also pretty great, especially for the dance number, which is
it's fantastic.

Speaker 2 (01:09:01):
Great dance number. It's our first song to feature mister
Buglow as the as the main vocalist, and his his
singing style, it's more like a flat spoken word style,
but it's tremendous. He's like, you know, he's talking about
like a puppet on a string, like a monkey on
a swing. Like that's very much the delivery style, and

(01:09:22):
often while he's again looking directly at us, directly into
the camera. It's great.

Speaker 3 (01:09:27):
So eventually Alfie and bb they go up to his office.
But wait a minute, wasn't he just down in the
lobby with them singing the song. This is one of
the many questions raised in musicals about like what is
the level of reality in the narrative when people are
in a place singing a song. Anyway, they go up
to his office, they you know, they come in the door.
They go past all the bodyguards and the lawyers. They

(01:09:50):
meet with mister Boglow's lawyers, who are introduced as James
Clark and Clark James. Okay, and this is the signing
the on tracked scene. I think you probably understand what's
going on here. So Boogleow is trying to sign them
on to his record company or maybe as their agent.

(01:10:11):
It's not exactly clear, but uh, there's no there are
no surprises here. The contract is a deal with the devil.
They would be signing away everything, their rights to their music,
their control over their careers, their souls basically. And once again,
Alfie is aware of the danger, but bb is portrayed
as two entranced by the promise of stardom. She just
wants to sign on the Dodger line and get it done.

Speaker 2 (01:10:33):
I mean, Alfie also just comes off as maybe a
bit too protective of his talent here, because to be clear, again,
Boogleow is a man that can make stars and does
make stars, and yeah, he's going to take an enormous
cut and he's gonna kind of sort of own your soul.
But this is a man that can and will transform

(01:10:54):
you into what you need. To be, so you're not
selling your soul for pennies here.

Speaker 3 (01:10:58):
But he does put the pressure on because Alfie wants
time to review the contract, and Google is like, you've
got another minute. You've got another meeting in twenty minutes
with the fashion designer, so you better sign it quick,
you know, and by tomorrow it's too late, so sign
it now or don't sign it, and then uh oh.
And then he's also like, we've already sold your first
album and Dube is confused. She's like, we haven't made

(01:11:21):
it yet, and then Shake explains, first you sell it,
then you make it. That's marketing.

Speaker 2 (01:11:27):
Yep, Canon films, Baby.

Speaker 3 (01:11:30):
So while bb is signing her contract, Alfie has some
kind of apocalyptic vision. The first one is of an
earthquake and great winds, but then it comes back to
the room and it's like it's all in his head.

Speaker 2 (01:11:42):
Or is it? Yeah? So this this again gets into
the unreality versus reality question in the film, because I
think you can kind of go down two different streets
of interpretation. Either Booglow is the literal devil or the
moose jaw hit here is beginning to break hardcore from reality,
and so instead of seeing a world of mundane excess

(01:12:05):
and greed. He is seeing a clear supernatural threat to
life and spiritual liberty.

Speaker 3 (01:12:12):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:12:12):
And if it's the former, yeah, you have full license
to be alarmed and to yell and shout and try
and drag your friend or girlfriend out of there. But
if if it's if it's the latter, then I don't know, Alfie.
I think maybe you're more of a danger than anything. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:12:28):
Possibly, So, Alfie, he has this vision, then he comes
back from it, so he sort of is calm down,
and he reluctantly goes to sign his contract. But then
a second possible hallucination or vision begins, which is a
darkening at noon lightning strikes. No one again sees the
darkening but him and the next prophetic vision is a

(01:12:49):
musical number, And here is where we finally get to
the title track The Apple stupendous.

Speaker 2 (01:12:56):
This is one of, if not the greatest dance numbers
and performances in the entire picture. This alone is worth
worth setting around for. If you have any intention of
walking out on a number in the Apple, this is
not it. This one is tremendous.

Speaker 3 (01:13:10):
So this number is set in hell and like the
caverns of Hell, but it also has Garden of Eden themes,
so they're all in this misty cave. Alphie and BBI
are suddenly dressed up like Adam and Eve. They're naked
except for strategic leaf coverings. Mister Boogalow is dressed like
a Halloween store Dracula costume.

Speaker 2 (01:13:31):
Yeah yeah, with one horn on to show that yeah,
he was the devil.

Speaker 3 (01:13:35):
We got some google eyed skeletons in the background. The
two bald bodyguards here are shirtless in black leather pants
and studded belts, wearing these dingy dog head masks. They
remind me of that horribly creepy dog mask guy.

Speaker 2 (01:13:50):
And the shining Yeah yeah, definite, definite vibes of all that.
Also great gels for the lighting here. We got like
red and green. It's wonderful.

Speaker 3 (01:14:00):
Shake is dressed like a giant serpent. Of course, Alfie
looks around. He turns to BB's like, hey, you know,
this is hell. That's bad. We should go, and BB
is like, no, I love it.

Speaker 2 (01:14:13):
And she should love it because it looks awesome. Once more,
the film is that it's most fun and enthralling when
it's showing us the dark side, And yeah, this is
nothing new. I mean, I feel like this is basically
the situation you have with Dante's Divine Comedy. Inferno is
fun and wicked and funny and insightful and full of creativity.

(01:14:34):
But and you know that the rest of the Divine
Comedy is also great in the classic. Yes, but Paradise
is significantly less fun compared to Inferno.

Speaker 3 (01:14:44):
Certainly less memorable to readers.

Speaker 2 (01:14:47):
Yeah, and this is a version of Hell you can
get behind. You expect Coffin Joe to show up at
any moment. Coffin Joe would love this place.

Speaker 3 (01:14:54):
Oh would he ever? I mean, he's very much along
the Count Boogula lines. So Count Boogila transforms Beebe's leaf
suit into a sparkling fancy dress and shows her around,
and he introduces her to Dandy, who, now in Hell
here is wearing sparkling gold briefs and nothing else. So
in this mode to call back to Rocky Horror once again,

(01:15:17):
he's very reminiscent of the appearance of Rocky, except again
he has the big mass of Roger Daltrey hair.

Speaker 2 (01:15:24):
Yeah. Yeah, he's maybe not as cut as Rocky, but
he has all the charisma and charming, like, this is
a man at ease in a golden pair of underwear.

Speaker 3 (01:15:34):
So they bring out the Ordu. They're making all these
references to the Orduv, and it's this big plastic apple
and they hand it to Bibe and everybody starts screaming
for her to taste it. They're all yelling, taste it,
taste it. And meanwhile, while while Dandy is seducing Bebee
and trying to get her to taste the apple, Pandy
starts seducing Alfie. And we see a very interesting cast

(01:15:57):
of characters all throughout Hell here, all encourage Bebe to
taste the apple. So some are like ladies in seventeenth
century European clothes and bride of Frankenstein makeup like Elsa Lanchester.
Several guys with no faces, just blank skin on the
front of their heads, one guy with two faces. Randomly,
we see Napoleon. I'm almost positive that's supposed to be Napoleon,

(01:16:19):
Like he's got his hand in his shirt and everything.

Speaker 2 (01:16:21):
Sure.

Speaker 3 (01:16:22):
Yeah, And then we also see just like vampires running around.

Speaker 2 (01:16:28):
Oh not just a vampire, Joe, it's an actual, actual,
actual vampire.

Speaker 3 (01:16:33):
That is the chorus of the song it's a natural, natural,
natural desire meet an actual, actual, actual vampire who.

Speaker 2 (01:16:43):
I don't know, but I love it. They and the
way the vampire lady like jumps up like a cat
at that moment, turns it cocks her head sideways tremendous.
I'm gonna say tremendous about three dozen more times in
this episode, but it's one accurate Dandy.

Speaker 3 (01:16:59):
I gotta give credit to Dandy on him selling this
ridiculous song, by the way, like the parts where he's
singing at the crowd of damned souls in the Pit
of Hell and he's like, oh, yeah, oh, it's so good.

Speaker 2 (01:17:16):
It's kind of theologically, it's kind of interesting, right because
he's like, look at this apple. This is temptation and sin.
This is what got you here. And they're like, yeah,
I did, but man, that's a good apple. Yep yep.

Speaker 3 (01:17:26):
So I think the apple represents fame, or maybe it's
just supposed to represent all temptations, but the core one
would seem to be fame. Like Bbe wants to be
a star and she is willing to put her soul
in danger and abandon I don't know, the good life
in order to have stardom.

Speaker 2 (01:17:45):
I'm just now noticing in the stills you included that
the apple is half green and half red, much like
the gel lighting and the scene. So it's like half
Foucie apple, half Granny Smith apple. So half great apple
and half just for cooking out.

Speaker 3 (01:17:59):
I hadn't noticed that until you pointed it out, but
you're right. Yeah. Anyway, at the end of this excellent song,
Alfie throws the contract on Boogalow's desk and he leaves
without signing, yells you'll never get me never.

Speaker 2 (01:18:13):
So this but this hell vision was just in Alfie's head, right,
So in reality he's coming off like a completely unhinged person.

Speaker 3 (01:18:21):
Yes, yeah, he goes up to sign the contract, everybody's
standing around waiting, and then presumably he just suddenly like
I don't know, he like closes his eyes for a
minute and then opens them and he's like, ah, you're
all demons. So Alfie leaves. Biebe tries to run after him,
but Dandy and Pandy stop her. They're like, you don't

(01:18:41):
know him anything, let him go. You're with us now.
Pandy grabs her and says, whether you like it or not,
you're a member of the Bim family, and this is
sort of a transition point from here, I'm gonna kinda
get a little more summary about the plot shift to
a more zoomed out summary. I think we could focus
on individual things that stood out to us, but we

(01:19:04):
see across a couple of songs, we see Bbe falling
prey to the lifestyle. Her earnest and innocent personality is
replaced by an addiction to shallow materialism, drugs, and fame.
And so the several songs in the sequence are first
of all, a song called how to Be a Master,

(01:19:25):
which I thought is it's the worst of the like
bad people songs in the movie. I think it's really awkward,
mister Bougelow singing about how he is the boss and
how he exploits everyone under him.

Speaker 2 (01:19:38):
I'm not sure where I would rank it in terms
of the villain songs. It's definitely better than any of
the good Guys songs in my opinion. I liked it.
It had kind of a reggae beat, and again mister
Boglow is the main vocalist on it, as which I love.
So I liked it.

Speaker 3 (01:19:55):
But then the next song I think is Rippen. It
is a hit. That song is Speed, and it is
a song in which Bbe sings about how she.

Speaker 2 (01:20:04):
Needs speed, not just speed, but speed.

Speaker 3 (01:20:10):
Yeah, yeah, exactly. And this song is dumb as hell,
but it is so good it actually, I would say
it feels a lot like a Jim Steinman song. Can't
you just hear the song in meat Loaf's voice?

Speaker 2 (01:20:22):
Yep? Yeah, I think this would very much fit his
general vibe.

Speaker 3 (01:20:25):
Yeah, the dance number is biker themed. The opening lines
of the song they are America, the land of the
Free is shooting up with pure energy.

Speaker 2 (01:20:38):
Yeah, this song is incredible. I suppose on some level
it is trying to say something about the pace of
American life and the expectations of success and work great
and so forth. But it's also a completely unsubtle track
about just how freaking awesome amphetamines apparently are, at least
according to Bbe. She just really gives it all to perform.

(01:20:59):
This number. Just high energy, as it should be for
a song called Speed.

Speaker 3 (01:21:05):
It. I mean, it's almost not double on Tandra. It's
just it seems like the more literal reading is that
it is about drugs, and that the it's like the
secondary meaning is interpreting it having to do with the
rate of things.

Speaker 2 (01:21:18):
Yeah, yeah, it's ridiculous, but also another success for Bbe
because now her star is just continuing to skyrocket.

Speaker 3 (01:21:25):
Yeah yeah. So we see her like talking to the press.
A reporter comes up to her and says, how does
it feel to be the world's number one BIM star?
And BB says, it's frightening, but I put all my
faith in mister Bugalow. And then they're talking to mister
Bugalow and they're like, oh, does Bbe have any plans
for marriage? And mister b says, she is already married

(01:21:45):
to the bim Oh and if we didn't mention this,
already Bbe is wearing the BIM mark. Now she's got
the triangle on her forehead. Yeah, whoops, took the mark
of the beast. Okay. So meanwhile Alfie is on the out,

(01:22:09):
so we see him suffering without Bebe. He wants their back,
he's feeling with a directionless she's sort of moved on.

Speaker 2 (01:22:16):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (01:22:16):
There's a scene out in the street with Alfie's landlady
where police are writing citations for anybody not wearing the
BIM mark. It is now required by law, but Alfie refuses.
He's like, I will not wear the Bim mark. And
also this is the scene where it is made clear
that he would be rich and successful if he would
just cave in and write if you just give in

(01:22:38):
and write bad, heartless music, that the audience is crave
the Bim music. But he refuses, He's going to keep
writing good, pure music about love.

Speaker 2 (01:22:47):
Yeah, with the imploy again the implication being that he
could write successful music if he wanted to have he
just sold out a little bit. But really, the picture
gives us nothing to go on here because his heartfelt,
authentic songs are too terrible, even though the movie would
have us believe that they really resonate with people and
are great and and and are just a vision of

(01:23:08):
purity and innocence. But no, what we we we witness
and hear in the in the in the movie does
not deliver those vibes.

Speaker 3 (01:23:15):
Once again, that is correct. So his next new his
new song which we hear, is called where Has Love Gone?
It's a sad love song as opposed to the hopeful
love song from the beginning, and it's about as good
as love the universal melody which is not very good.

Speaker 2 (01:23:30):
Yeah, and it's I guess it's it's ultimately a flaw
in the film because clearly the composers were able to
bring it with the other numbers, the other genres, but
the love songs, the songs that define our heroes or
our hero here, it clearly wasn't their strong suit, and
so it deflates the power of our intended protagonists. You know.
It's it's like if you were setting up Hercules in

(01:23:51):
your action movie, but instead of Hercules like actually appearing
strong and being able to beat people up, he instead
comes off weak. People are like, oh, look how strong
he is, but he's clearly not. It also reminds me
of I've seen some dramas before that are about fictional
stand up comedians, and the material they have the main

(01:24:12):
character deliver is not convincingly funny. The show tries to
make you feel like like, oh, people are laughing, this
is a talented comedian, but it's like no, no, no,
I can tell I'm watching the show. It's not funny,
and therefore it deflates the power of the character because
they are not. It's hard to buy into the illusion
if you can't give me something to go on there.

Speaker 3 (01:24:33):
Yeah, yeah, totally like, they should just leave that off
screen if they can't be confident that they can write
really good material for them.

Speaker 2 (01:24:40):
Wouldn't that have been hilarious though in this movie? And
they're like, and then Alfie delivers an amazing song. We're
not going to show it to you, but it's better
than anything you've heard in this picture.

Speaker 3 (01:24:49):
That would be an interesting choice, actually. But while Alfie
is singing this clunker, I wanted to point out a
good bit of environmental future texture I noticed, which is
there's people in the back. They're out for a walk.
They're dressed in their finest reflective tape, and they're pushing
what I think are supposed to be you strollers, prams,
baby carriages, whatever you call them. And in this world,

(01:25:11):
these strollers are designed so that babies are encased within
a plastic bubble. Do you see this?

Speaker 2 (01:25:20):
Yep, yep. It's the only way to keep them safe.
I guess it's from all the you know, the dangers
of the future.

Speaker 3 (01:25:26):
Oh, and everywhere there are faceless police in all black
carrying triangular riot shields in the shape of the BIM mark.

Speaker 2 (01:25:32):
Yeah, there's BIM propaganda everywhere, And of course lots of
places to get the bim burger. I wish I knew
more about bimburger offerings. What's that bimburger like? Does it
have a nice triangular slice of cheese, triangular pickle? I
don't know. Maybe the paddy, maybe the whole thing is triangular.

Speaker 3 (01:25:51):
Yeah, you never see one, but that's a good guess.
So Alfi goes to the music studio. He plays this
sad love song for these greedy music executives, not Boogalo
some other I guess rivals. And these guys are like, hmm,
it's not what the kids are into. Write something that
will be a hit, and something with some bim to it,
and then come back when you've got that for us.

(01:26:12):
And Alfie is very upset. He goes to sit on
a sit in a park and stare at the ground,
looking sad, and then a cop comes up to him
and writes him a ticket for not wearing the bim mark.
So it's just not Alfie's day.

Speaker 2 (01:26:23):
Is this where the cop says, don't you know it's obligatory?

Speaker 3 (01:26:26):
Yeah? Oh, And then we get the announcement, like these
loudspeakers on every street corner start broadcasting a message saying
stop ordinary activities and prepare for the National Bim Hour.
So it's like the Two Minutes Hate in nineteen eighty four,
except instead of yelling at Goldstein, everybody has to dance

(01:26:47):
and celebrate the power of BIM. So we get a
reprise of the original BIM song, Hey Hey, Hey, Bim's
on the way or Bim's the Only Way, and we
get to see firefighters who stop putting out a fire
and go and dance to it, construction workers dancing to it,
Surgeons in the middle of a surgery abandon the operation
and start dancing. Nuns are dancing, police are dancing and leading.

(01:27:11):
The whole thing is Bebe and Dandy and Pandy.

Speaker 2 (01:27:15):
It's great. It's tremendously silly, but it's wonderful.

Speaker 3 (01:27:18):
Yeah, it goes on so so long, by the way,
but the sequence is awesome. So there is a scene
somewhere in here where we get to see like Bbie's
enjoying her popularity. She's the biggest star in the world.
The crowds are shouting her name, and then at one
point Alfie comes to her through the crowd and tries
to get her attention, and she sort of tries to
call back to him, but the bim entourage keeps them apart.

(01:27:41):
They put her in a car, and then the two
orc gentlemen beat Alfie.

Speaker 2 (01:27:45):
Up Bulldog and fat Boy No way, Bulldog and fat Dogs.

Speaker 3 (01:27:49):
Yes yes, And then we get another sad song from
Bib and Alfie called Cry for Me. This is the
one that sounds like Sandy from Greece. It starts Alphy,
where are you now? Uh? And this is not one
of the better songs in the movie. It's standard basic
pining for each other song, just.

Speaker 2 (01:28:10):
More evidence that Boogolow is right and that that Alfie
may have some talent, but it desperately needs to be
transformed into something else.

Speaker 3 (01:28:18):
So next song, at his lowest point, Alfie goes to
a party at some kind of BIM pad I don't
know if this is Bougolo's apartment or whatever. H And
at this party, Alfie is drugged and taken advantage of
by Pandy, and this leads into a song called Coming,
where Pandy is taking advantage of Alfie while he he's

(01:28:39):
on this like bad trip and he's like seeing hallucinations
and bad dreams and all this stuff. And then it
just generally turns into a song about the concept of sex.

Speaker 2 (01:28:50):
Yeah, it has it's about as subtle as as Speed
was earlier, real dumb lyrics, but it's kind of catchy,
I guess, and it had. I did like the drugged
out optical effects and sort of the dark disco stylings
of this whole part of the picture.

Speaker 3 (01:29:04):
Yeah, like many of these other dance numbers, it does
have some great visuals and and and like weird drug
trip effects. But afterwards, Alfie wakes up on a park
bench where here here the movie takes a real turn.
He's on a park bench and he is greeted by
Joss Ackland in a gandalf Beard wearing a robe with
a knife on his belt.

Speaker 2 (01:29:26):
Yep, yeap, bear chested bear belly. It's you know, it's
it's not necessarily what you'd expect, but again, he brings
a grandeur, he brings a dignity to any performance. Very
much in effect here.

Speaker 3 (01:29:40):
Right, So he's like, Alfie, come with me, and he
leads him through the woods and introduces him to a
commune of hippies. These are hippies who live in a
cave under a nearby bridge, and they are not plugged
into the bim. It is specified that they don't want TV,

(01:30:01):
and this is like, huh, what there can be a
society that doesn't watch TV. And some of the hippies
look at Alfie and they say peace, and Alfie says,
haven't heard that word in a long time, A long time.

Speaker 2 (01:30:16):
I love how the old man here introduces the hippies
as if this bunch stands in strong opposition to the
forces of drugs and sexual liberation and rock music that
we've been witnessing thus far. That has been established as
like the enemy, you know, yeah, because these cave dwelling
hippies did all of those things, they invented some of
those things.

Speaker 3 (01:30:35):
But I think, are they are not part of the
global technological mass media infrastructure?

Speaker 2 (01:30:43):
True?

Speaker 3 (01:30:44):
True, and that that seems to be a part of
what the evil is in the movie.

Speaker 2 (01:30:49):
That's right.

Speaker 3 (01:30:50):
So meanwhile, we check in with Bibi and the Bim
crowd and we find out that Pandy is actually quite
penitent for how she and the others have manipulated Alfie,
and she confesses to beb what they did, and then
she tells Bibe to go to Alfie. She says, he
loves you. And this is this is Pande's redemption. We
see how she in turn is abused and mistreated by

(01:31:13):
the bim world, and she sings a song about her
turn of heart called I Found Me. I'm gonna say
this is the best of the earnest songs in the movie,
but it's hard for any of the earnest songs to
compete with the awesome satanic majesty of Bim.

Speaker 2 (01:31:29):
Yeah, I would agree, I'm both counts here. Yeah, this
this is a decent song, but it doesn't have a
lot of competition against the songs Alfie has been whipping
out and the rest of the picture.

Speaker 3 (01:31:42):
I think I would say the song as a composition
is nothing special. But Grace Kennedy does much better with
this song than it actually deserved.

Speaker 2 (01:31:52):
Yes, because she does.

Speaker 3 (01:31:54):
She puts a shocking amount of passion into it. We
get like the real like close up on the tears
and everything. She is selling that moral change of heart.
So here we get to the end BB she repents.
Also she leaves the bim world and she goes to
seek out Alfie. She goes looking around the bridge that
tries to find the cave and runs into Joss Ackland,

(01:32:17):
the hippie leader, and when the hippie leader meets her,
he says multiple lines, I don't know if you caught
this rob that sound exactly like lines that Alec Guinness
says as Obi Wan Kenobi when he's calling out to
R two D two in the original Star Wars. I
think he literally literally says, well, hello there, don't be afraid,

(01:32:37):
and even kind of sounds like Alec guinnis so yeah,
it's interesting. But so he leads her down into the
hippie cave. He tells her that Alfie is down in
the bachelor quarters. One of what things are like there.

Speaker 2 (01:32:50):
We probably probably smells a bit rough.

Speaker 3 (01:32:53):
Yeah, And they sing a song called Child of Love.
That's okay.

Speaker 2 (01:32:58):
I like it. It's kind of booming wizard, I guess.

Speaker 3 (01:33:01):
Yeah, yeah, it's okay. And so here like some time passes,
like Bbe comes into the world. They take they take
the BIM mark off of her forehead and she seems
cleansed of the evil of Bim And then we cut
to like a year in the future where she's been
living there in the cave with the hippies with Alfie,

(01:33:22):
and now Alfie and BB have a child together. And
in the grand finale, the Bogleow leadership comes to mount
an assault on the hippie community and to collect BB
because they say, you know, we've got she's got a
contract with us. And because of this contract she signed,
she owes Boogalow Music ten million dollars for leaving the business.

(01:33:44):
And also, by the way, all of you hippies are
under arrest. But just when things look darkest, we get
a literal diosx machina. So Alfie is he's he's looking
around and Alfie who has a beard. Now, by the way,
I didn't recognize him first with the beard. He says,
it's going to be all right. I know he's going

(01:34:04):
to come. BB says, who's going to come? Alfie says
mister Topps.

Speaker 2 (01:34:10):
No idea that nobody has mentioned mister Topps up until
this point. Again, the only thing or person that we
know is coming is Bim Bim is on the way right,
there is no mention of mister Topps.

Speaker 3 (01:34:24):
Who, So yeah, don't ask questions about mister Topps. Mister
Topps does appear. He comes down from heaven in a
spectral rolls Royce. He's wearing like a white suit and
he he comes out of the car he leads the
hippies away to become spiritual flesh and live in a
place behind the sun. Oh and also Pandy abandons Bim

(01:34:46):
and she goes along as well. And then we like,
mister Topps here, who did we already say he's played
by Joss Ackland. This is also Joss Ackland. Mister Topps
has a little conversation with mister Boogalow, like as all
of the hippies are departing into the heavens.

Speaker 2 (01:35:04):
Yeah, and again Shapal and Auckland. They do manage to
make this exchange feel important, like they're both very talented actors,
and they bring a certain gravity to the conversation that
is maybe not completely earned, uh, to the point where
you know they're having the conversation and you know, and
mister Tops is like, well, we're gonna I'm gonna take

(01:35:26):
them all, We're gonna go away, We're gonna go to
another planet and do something else. Only you're not gonna come.
We're gonna try it without you this time. And and
of course mister Boglow is like, you can't have creation
without me, you can't have good without evil. And mister
Topps says, let's give it a try, and uh and
it and it works like it doesn't come off as
a corny will line. It like fools me into thinking like, yeah, yeah,

(01:35:49):
let's give it a try. Mister Tops is right, and
then he like raptures everybody.

Speaker 3 (01:35:54):
Yes, one of the most out of nowhere endings I
can think of in any film I've ever seen. Again,
we do know. It was partially a disappointment to discover
that there had originally been shot these earlier scenes where
mister Topps creates the world, so you did know who
this character was before. I prefer not to think about
that and to think of the final cut of the

(01:36:16):
movie as the intended version of the story where you
have no prior knowledge of mister Topps and he just appears.

Speaker 2 (01:36:23):
Yeah. Yeah, I think I prefer that way as well.
With all the disco freaks being turned into hippies and
the hippies travel to the Gray Havens, Earth is left
to Boogalow and his demons, and then the movie ends.
You know. I've also seen it pointed out by people
commenting on the Apple that we don't really have a

(01:36:43):
rousing grand finale musical number, which is is kind of interesting,
Like usually you have something like that, there would be
a big musical number as all of these characters are
raptured away to this new creation. But no, we don't
get that. Not that I'm missing it, because I'm still
just blown away by this divine ending to this picture.

(01:37:05):
But yeah, it's it's weird that our final musical number
is I guess the wizard folk song from earlier Child
of Love.

Speaker 3 (01:37:14):
Well, the we get a reprise of the apple that
plays over the end, over the creds. Yeah, but that's
funny because that almost makes it sound like a triumph
of evil. Like at the end of the story, we
just go back to the song about how wonderful the
temptation is.

Speaker 2 (01:37:30):
Yeah, I mean, Boogolow is going to make a party
out of it. He's gonna make lemonade out of these lemons,
So you know it's gonna be rocking. It's just gonna
be The attendance is going to be far lower since
all the people got raptured away, but he's still got
a He's still got Bulldog and fat Dog there, so
we get to discover what their talents are.

Speaker 3 (01:37:49):
It wouldn't be heaven without them, right, Okay, I think
that's all I can say about the Apple I am exhausted,
but this was one of my favorites. Have watched absolutely nuts.

Speaker 2 (01:38:02):
Yeah, this movie's a workout. It's I highly recommend it.
It's People talk a lot about you know, movies that
are so bad they're good, and about you know, weird
movies like this is all of those things. Like it's
rough around the edges. There are things that clearly don't
work or didn't work as intended, but then there's so
much that does work and succeed and resonates, like it
has some great songs in it, you know. I think

(01:38:25):
a lot of a lot of its failure comes down
to just when it came out. If this had come
out like five years earlier, what would the reception have
been like. And if nothing else, I think it's great
that it did find its audience over time and it
does have this cult status now.

Speaker 3 (01:38:42):
Oh yeah, this is when I know I'm going to
be coming back to it many, many times. I wonder
what things I will notice in the future that I
didn't notice this time.

Speaker 2 (01:38:49):
It's full it's you've noticed something different every time you
watch it. All three times I've watched it in the
last month, I've noticed something new. All right, We're gonna
go ahead and close it out here. We'd love to
hear from you though, if you have thoughts on the Apple.
We actually already heard from one listener who went to
a viewing of The Apple, so right in if you
two have a story about seeing the Apple. Also, if

(01:39:11):
you have thoughts on other musicals we should do in
the future. I know we've had multiple people suggest nineteen
eighty one Shock Treatment, the follow up to the Rocky
Horror Picture Show, so you know that's potentially on the table,
but there are other weird musicals. Let us know what
you would like to hear us talk about in the future.
In the meantime, we'll remind you that Stuff to Blow
Your Mind is primarily a science podcast with core episodes

(01:39:33):
on Tuesdays and Thursdays, but on Fridays we set aside
most serious concerns to just talk about a weird film
on Weird House Cinema. If you want a complete list
of all the movies we've covered over the years, go
to letterbox dot com. It's l E T T e
r box d dot com. We have a profile there
it's weird House and you can find a list of
all the movies we've covered, and sometimes there's a hint
ahead at what's coming up next.

Speaker 3 (01:39:55):
Huge thanks as always to our excellent audio producer, JJ Posway.
If you would like to get in touch with us
with feedback on this episode or any other, to suggest
a topic for the future, or just to say hello,
you can email us at contact at stuff to Blow
your Mind dot com.

Speaker 1 (01:40:17):
Stuff to Blow Your Mind is production of iHeartRadio. For
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