September 25, 2020 • 11 mins
Holly and Tracy talk about the business dealings of Hollywood in context with the moral scandals that were playing out in the press at the time, as well as the way films are distributed today versus in Adolph Zukor's time.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to Stuff you Missed in History Class, A production
of I Heart Radio, Hello, and Happy Casual Friday. I'm
Holly Frying. I'm Tracy P. Wilson. So this week we
talked about the Paramount decrees, starting with how Paramount came
(00:21):
to be in the first place, and then all of
the legal mess that ensued thereafter. I have so many
feelings about this because, as you know, like I'm a
movie buff, and I am into the entertainment industry in general. Um,
and I one thing that I wanted to at least
mention that kept occurring to me as I was working
(00:44):
on this. Right, we're talking about all of these things
going on in the nineteen twenties and and all of
this legal stuff involving Paramount and all of their business moves.
But the backdrop against which all of this is going
on is like the perceived debauchery of Hollywood, which I
thought was really interesting because this is also removed from it,
and it's guys making deals and like you know, we
(01:06):
talked about William Desmond Taylor's murder on the show before
that was so right when all of this was going on, um,
you know, the Fatty Arbicle scandal, played out in this time,
like Hollywood was in a whole weird place where people
were judging its morality a lot, which I have to
wonder didn't make it easier for people to get involved
(01:28):
in business dealings that may have been more predatory or
aggressive because people were not worried about that part of
the industry the general public. They were busy like reading
headlines about scandals. Well, meanwhile, these guys were like, how
can we absolutely take over everything? When really, right, those
(01:51):
are the people with power, Like the people that show
up in scandals kind of come and go in the industry,
But the people who are making these big deals are
the one that carry on for decades and really run things,
which is just something I find fascinating. Yeah. The other
thing I think is interesting in the midst of all
of this, particularly the overturn essentially of the decrease, is
(02:15):
that I can't imagine what today's entertainment distribution would look like.
Adolf Zooker right, like, no, you're going to get a
movie on your phone that's in your pocket. What you
don't post phone in your pocket? Yes you do. It's
got more power than anything you've ever encountered. And studios
have their own distribution plans with them, right, Like, yeah,
(02:39):
this is a whole different thing that nobody has ever
really considered before or was never part of the considerations
of of these decrees because they couldn't predict the future
in that regard. Um, this whole thing made me think
about when I was a kid growing up, Like the
nearest city to us was Winston Salem. Um, And for
(03:02):
a long time it had maybe I feel like it
was to first run movie theaters. Others were built as
I got older, but when I was a kid, I
really feel like they were. There were two and they
never were playing the same movies. Yeah, And so it
would be like you would sort of have your fingers
(03:23):
crossed that the movie that you wanted to see was
going to be playing at the better theater, right, And
in my head, I was like, were they colluding with
each other? Like how how did that all go down? Um?
And you know, now I live outside of Boston, and
if there's a movie we want to see, there's probably
four theaters we can choose from. Um, and there are more.
(03:46):
There are way more than two theaters in Winston Salem.
Now I'm sure I knew there are definitely ones that
were not there when I was a kid. Yeah, the
options have grown everywhere, which is great, but it is
it's it's very very um It's one of those things
that when you think about it in terms of both
how that used to work, just what we've seen develop
(04:07):
in our lifetimes and now this idea of you know,
we distribute, Yes, we're also the distributors and essentially the
exhibitors because of apps, right, I mean the launch of
Disney Plus was like huge news. Yeah, all of these
companies are now offering their own things, which are also
(04:29):
competing with television uh networks that are offering their own apps.
I don't know how one would sort that all out legally,
unless it's just perceived as a relatively level playing field
because everyone has an app and most people in the
developed world have access to them. Yeah. Yeah, well, and
(04:49):
it's also one of those things where the the industry
has had to deal with the fact that, like licensing
and distribution agreements for some movies were written before there
was a Netflix and a phone that was capable of
showing stuff. I mean, we've dealt with that to some
extent in our own work, not so much on the podcast,
(05:11):
but like when we were part of a website. Yeah,
Like the idea that a photograph, instead of being published
on a print newspaper would instead beyond a website and
perpetuity like that was a whole different thing. Yeah, for sure.
It also does make you think about how much of
(05:33):
what you sort of how I sort of hope anyway, right,
like in my dreamy worldview, particularly as a younger person.
Now I'm I'm old and jaded. Um, but of this
idea that you know, entertainment is art and it is
still art. I don't want to in any way demean
entertainment or film or television, but you realize how much
(05:54):
of that art is tied to the really sucky parts
of the business that you probably don't want to think of.
I mean, everybody has to make money because that's how
they make more art. But at the same time, you realize,
like art is not what's driving the bus a lot
of the time. It is a business arrangement that had
(06:16):
to be made so that any art could get made
in the first place. Slightly heartbringing, but also interesting. I've
been really really fascinated watching um, you know, older holdings
start to show up in streaming services, right, especially like,
now everything right, HBO Max suddenly has all loved the things.
(06:41):
We're not getting paid to mention any of this, by
the way, but like the fact that now I can
watch the Muppets there, I'm like, this is a very weird.
The business dealings that have to connect to make all
of this work are are mind boggling. It's the very
fancy Lehman's term. But when you think about the fact
that each of those properties has to have an agreement
(07:07):
managed to make those those distribution deals happen. When you
think about like the websites that just cover what is
coming and going on a streaming service like Netflix or
Hulu on a month to month basis, I feel like
distribution is one of those aspects of the industry that
is so key and important to keeping the whole industry going,
(07:30):
but which consumers do not really have a firm grasp on.
I don't. I've just demonstrated that I don't understand all
of this well. And it's like sometimes you'll see somebody's
incredibly angry comments that something they want to watch is
not on Netflix, and they're like tweeting at the Netflix account,
and it's like that person has no control over this,
(07:52):
and it may also be entirely outside of Netflix's control,
Like it's they didn't just make a decision to make
you mad. Nobody just called Netflix and said take my
show down. Um. It's also the related because you and
I have worked in online content for so long, this
seems so obvious to us. But I've had so many
(08:15):
discussions with friends and very smart people who get really
frustrated with ads being placed in online content that is
not user generated content but like studio generated content, and
like they're like, well, it's free to watch on television,
and I'm like, well, it's also free to watch on
(08:35):
your phone, but you're going to get an ad And
they're like, but I don't want the ads. That's why
I'm watching on my phone. And I'm like, how does
that company get paid them? And there's a weird disconnect
that happens where because so much information on the Internet
is free and is without any sort of advertising connected
to it, that people get very frustrated with the parts
(08:57):
that do have advertising connected to it sometimes and they'll
get out of stop Watch and tell you how many
ad there are, right, But it's like, I mean that's
really again, that's what is keeping everything going. That is
what's paying the overhead. A little bit weirder now because
we're all at home, but you know, to maintain an
(09:18):
office building, to maintain servers where things can be hosted,
to pay the people making the content, which you hope
is always going on. Um yeah, all of that, I
mean the business model. I understand as a consumer people
don't always love to watch commercials, I mean their entire
you know, ideologies about how to how exactly the time
(09:41):
you're muting of the television if you're still watching broadcast television,
um to like how to try to get around ads
on the internet. But that is literally how you're supporting
the things you love is by giving your eyeballs to
that thing, your ears to that thing for a little while.
I understand the frustration, and at the same time, I'm like,
(10:02):
we live in a capitalist society. So as awesome as
it would be if everything we're free, somebody's still gotta
make money. Yeah. I'm very, very curious what will come
of this, this whole shift in law. Yeah, I had
not heard anything about it. So when you mentioned to
me that you were thinking of doing this episode, these
(10:25):
episodes for reasons, I like googled the thing, and I
was like, that sounds interesting. What are the reasons because
even like, like the news story hadn't even floated up
at that point. It was like, because everything is changing
right now, I'm such a dork that I knew that. Um. Yeah, anyway, Well,
we hope you've enjoyed this partial digression into why entertainment
(10:47):
has to be paid before by somebody and um, and
that you have a marvelous Friday and hopefully a good weekend.
If you work on a normal operating schedule of a
work week of the weekend, hopefully your weekend ahead is grand.
If you don't work on that, hopefully whatever awaits you
in the next coming days is also grand. And that
you are all staying safe and healthy. You can always
(11:09):
check in with us by writing us at History podcast
at iHeart radio dot com, and you can subscribe to
the show on the I heart Radio app, Apple podcasts,
or wherever it is you listen. Stuff you missed in
History Class is a production of I heart Radio. For
more podcasts from I heart Radio, visit the i heart
(11:30):
Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your
favorite shows.
Welcome to Stuff you Missed in History Class, A production
of I Heart Radio, Hello, and Happy Casual Friday. I'm
Holly Frying. I'm Tracy P. Wilson. So this week we
talked about the Paramount decrees, starting with how Paramount came
(00:21):
to be in the first place, and then all of
the legal mess that ensued thereafter. I have so many
feelings about this because, as you know, like I'm a
movie buff, and I am into the entertainment industry in general. Um,
and I one thing that I wanted to at least
mention that kept occurring to me as I was working
(00:44):
on this. Right, we're talking about all of these things
going on in the nineteen twenties and and all of
this legal stuff involving Paramount and all of their business moves.
But the backdrop against which all of this is going
on is like the perceived debauchery of Hollywood, which I
thought was really interesting because this is also removed from it,
and it's guys making deals and like you know, we
(01:06):
talked about William Desmond Taylor's murder on the show before
that was so right when all of this was going on, um,
you know, the Fatty Arbicle scandal, played out in this time,
like Hollywood was in a whole weird place where people
were judging its morality a lot, which I have to
wonder didn't make it easier for people to get involved
(01:28):
in business dealings that may have been more predatory or
aggressive because people were not worried about that part of
the industry the general public. They were busy like reading
headlines about scandals. Well, meanwhile, these guys were like, how
can we absolutely take over everything? When really, right, those
(01:51):
are the people with power, Like the people that show
up in scandals kind of come and go in the industry,
But the people who are making these big deals are
the one that carry on for decades and really run things,
which is just something I find fascinating. Yeah. The other
thing I think is interesting in the midst of all
of this, particularly the overturn essentially of the decrease, is
(02:15):
that I can't imagine what today's entertainment distribution would look like.
Adolf Zooker right, like, no, you're going to get a
movie on your phone that's in your pocket. What you
don't post phone in your pocket? Yes you do. It's
got more power than anything you've ever encountered. And studios
have their own distribution plans with them, right, Like, yeah,
(02:39):
this is a whole different thing that nobody has ever
really considered before or was never part of the considerations
of of these decrees because they couldn't predict the future
in that regard. Um, this whole thing made me think
about when I was a kid growing up, Like the
nearest city to us was Winston Salem. Um, And for
(03:02):
a long time it had maybe I feel like it
was to first run movie theaters. Others were built as
I got older, but when I was a kid, I
really feel like they were. There were two and they
never were playing the same movies. Yeah, And so it
would be like you would sort of have your fingers
(03:23):
crossed that the movie that you wanted to see was
going to be playing at the better theater, right, And
in my head, I was like, were they colluding with
each other? Like how how did that all go down? Um?
And you know, now I live outside of Boston, and
if there's a movie we want to see, there's probably
four theaters we can choose from. Um, and there are more.
(03:46):
There are way more than two theaters in Winston Salem.
Now I'm sure I knew there are definitely ones that
were not there when I was a kid. Yeah, the
options have grown everywhere, which is great, but it is
it's it's very very um It's one of those things
that when you think about it in terms of both
how that used to work, just what we've seen develop
(04:07):
in our lifetimes and now this idea of you know,
we distribute, Yes, we're also the distributors and essentially the
exhibitors because of apps, right, I mean the launch of
Disney Plus was like huge news. Yeah, all of these
companies are now offering their own things, which are also
(04:29):
competing with television uh networks that are offering their own apps.
I don't know how one would sort that all out legally,
unless it's just perceived as a relatively level playing field
because everyone has an app and most people in the
developed world have access to them. Yeah. Yeah, well, and
(04:49):
it's also one of those things where the the industry
has had to deal with the fact that, like licensing
and distribution agreements for some movies were written before there
was a Netflix and a phone that was capable of
showing stuff. I mean, we've dealt with that to some
extent in our own work, not so much on the podcast,
(05:11):
but like when we were part of a website. Yeah,
Like the idea that a photograph, instead of being published
on a print newspaper would instead beyond a website and
perpetuity like that was a whole different thing. Yeah, for sure.
It also does make you think about how much of
(05:33):
what you sort of how I sort of hope anyway, right,
like in my dreamy worldview, particularly as a younger person.
Now I'm I'm old and jaded. Um, but of this
idea that you know, entertainment is art and it is
still art. I don't want to in any way demean
entertainment or film or television, but you realize how much
(05:54):
of that art is tied to the really sucky parts
of the business that you probably don't want to think of.
I mean, everybody has to make money because that's how
they make more art. But at the same time, you realize,
like art is not what's driving the bus a lot
of the time. It is a business arrangement that had
(06:16):
to be made so that any art could get made
in the first place. Slightly heartbringing, but also interesting. I've
been really really fascinated watching um, you know, older holdings
start to show up in streaming services, right, especially like,
now everything right, HBO Max suddenly has all loved the things.
(06:41):
We're not getting paid to mention any of this, by
the way, but like the fact that now I can
watch the Muppets there, I'm like, this is a very weird.
The business dealings that have to connect to make all
of this work are are mind boggling. It's the very
fancy Lehman's term. But when you think about the fact
that each of those properties has to have an agreement
(07:07):
managed to make those those distribution deals happen. When you
think about like the websites that just cover what is
coming and going on a streaming service like Netflix or
Hulu on a month to month basis, I feel like
distribution is one of those aspects of the industry that
is so key and important to keeping the whole industry going,
(07:30):
but which consumers do not really have a firm grasp on.
I don't. I've just demonstrated that I don't understand all
of this well. And it's like sometimes you'll see somebody's
incredibly angry comments that something they want to watch is
not on Netflix, and they're like tweeting at the Netflix account,
and it's like that person has no control over this,
(07:52):
and it may also be entirely outside of Netflix's control,
Like it's they didn't just make a decision to make
you mad. Nobody just called Netflix and said take my
show down. Um. It's also the related because you and
I have worked in online content for so long, this
seems so obvious to us. But I've had so many
(08:15):
discussions with friends and very smart people who get really
frustrated with ads being placed in online content that is
not user generated content but like studio generated content, and
like they're like, well, it's free to watch on television,
and I'm like, well, it's also free to watch on
(08:35):
your phone, but you're going to get an ad And
they're like, but I don't want the ads. That's why
I'm watching on my phone. And I'm like, how does
that company get paid them? And there's a weird disconnect
that happens where because so much information on the Internet
is free and is without any sort of advertising connected
to it, that people get very frustrated with the parts
(08:57):
that do have advertising connected to it sometimes and they'll
get out of stop Watch and tell you how many
ad there are, right, But it's like, I mean that's
really again, that's what is keeping everything going. That is
what's paying the overhead. A little bit weirder now because
we're all at home, but you know, to maintain an
(09:18):
office building, to maintain servers where things can be hosted,
to pay the people making the content, which you hope
is always going on. Um yeah, all of that, I
mean the business model. I understand as a consumer people
don't always love to watch commercials, I mean their entire
you know, ideologies about how to how exactly the time
(09:41):
you're muting of the television if you're still watching broadcast television,
um to like how to try to get around ads
on the internet. But that is literally how you're supporting
the things you love is by giving your eyeballs to
that thing, your ears to that thing for a little while.
I understand the frustration, and at the same time, I'm like,
(10:02):
we live in a capitalist society. So as awesome as
it would be if everything we're free, somebody's still gotta
make money. Yeah. I'm very, very curious what will come
of this, this whole shift in law. Yeah, I had
not heard anything about it. So when you mentioned to
me that you were thinking of doing this episode, these
(10:25):
episodes for reasons, I like googled the thing, and I
was like, that sounds interesting. What are the reasons because
even like, like the news story hadn't even floated up
at that point. It was like, because everything is changing
right now, I'm such a dork that I knew that. Um. Yeah, anyway, Well,
we hope you've enjoyed this partial digression into why entertainment
(10:47):
has to be paid before by somebody and um, and
that you have a marvelous Friday and hopefully a good weekend.
If you work on a normal operating schedule of a
work week of the weekend, hopefully your weekend ahead is grand.
If you don't work on that, hopefully whatever awaits you
in the next coming days is also grand. And that
you are all staying safe and healthy. You can always
(11:09):
check in with us by writing us at History podcast
at iHeart radio dot com, and you can subscribe to
the show on the I heart Radio app, Apple podcasts,
or wherever it is you listen. Stuff you missed in
History Class is a production of I heart Radio. For
more podcasts from I heart Radio, visit the i heart
(11:30):
Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your
favorite shows.
Stuff You Missed in History Class News
Hosts And Creators
Holly Frey
Tracy Wilson
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