April 30, 2021 • 10 mins
Tracy and Holly speculate about the kitsch of historical cultures, and how we interpret historical objects.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to stuff you missed in History class A production
of I Heart Radio, Hello and Happy Friday. I'm Tracy V.
Wilson and I'm Molly Fry. Why is that funny? UM,
it sounded like you were like on ramping hello and
(00:26):
welcome to them. Then you got you. That's great. I
feel like we're just incredibly punchy at this point in
our lives and the pandemic recording recording podcasts. We recorded
our Unearthed episodes for January February in March of twenty one.
(00:47):
I was pleased to find that there was enough interesting
stuff to have two parts, and as is always a case,
I also had other stuff that um I did not
include for one reason or another along the way. UM,
they had something in the first part that you particularly
responded to that you said we were going to say
for the behind the scenes. I think I have said
(01:07):
this before when we've talked about similar things happening on
on Earth. But in my head, because there are so
many instances of those Sulawesi wardy pigs that show up,
uh in very very very ancient art, I just presumed
that was like a trend like people had, like you know,
kitchen pigs, and it's just that like we through the
(01:30):
lens of history and trying to interpret it or like,
is this is important to their culture and we're going
to find out it was like the kitch of their era. Yeah. Uh,
they're definitely a lot of pigs in that general area. UM.
It reminds me a little what you just said. It
reminds me of some of the discussion of um, the
cave art, that is, people making handprints by you know,
(01:54):
putting the paint around their hands, so their handprint is
like the negative space, and how in some places that
is there's just a lot of that and it's sort
of similar of like what what specifically was prompting folks
to want to do this with their art? Over and over?
Was this an ancient preschool Yet I was really tickled.
(02:17):
I was simultaneously chagrined but also tickled by this. Um
this horse step that turned out to be an artifact. UM.
I mean, obviously ideally it would not. It would have
been better had there just not been this trend of
people taking artifacts back with them when they went on
their grand tours of the continent. That's not ideal. But
(02:37):
also there are so many times when I see something
around my house and I'm like, has that always been
that way? That? You know? I'm kind of glad that
some person stepped on this horse block for a decade
before being like, there's a laurel wreath on here, I've
never noticed that before. There's also part of me I've
(03:00):
see I don't love that it was probably taken from
where it originally came from, almost certainly without permission, But
there is part of me that loves just the the
interconnectivity of it that's evidenced across time and place right that, like,
there could be a thing in your life today that
(03:20):
you prize, and in two hundred years somebody could be
using it to like do something very mundane, and I
kind of love that idea that it would just be
reappropriated as a different I don't mean that in the
sense of like taking things, but just like re envisioned
as having a completely different use than it originally had,
(03:42):
and that being important in its own way. I don't
know that's I probably have an overly romantic view of
things in that regard. Yeah, I have a an antique
loom shuttle sitting on my desk as like a decoration
in a podcasting corner here in my little home office.
(04:04):
Uh and it Uh. I had not really thought about
the fact that, you know, somebody was using that loom,
that shuttle to make their living on a loom and
now it's a decoration in my home office with a computer. Yes, um,
I mean I think about that all the time with
various objects, both the objects that I have now that
(04:25):
are contemporary and what they will be perceived as one day.
You know, I always joke that, like there's going to
be a civilization one day that unearths my house and
comes to believe that, like there was a religion based
around a strange green alien creature because I have so
much grito stuff in my house, and like just the
way that it will be misinterpreted one day. It's like
(04:46):
this was clearly culturally very important. It's culturally very important.
It certainly is to me. But you know there are
things like that that I always wonder what we're getting
wrong when we look at these things, and and it
reaches back to the suluaisi pig thing, right, like what
we're interpreting incorrectly that might be mundane or like I said,
(05:07):
like kitch. While it's often associated with the modern era,
like everyone has as human beings, and I think even
many animals have this capacity for just like delight in
the simple or absurd or ornamental, And so I feel
like we forget that sometimes and presume everything has meaning
(05:29):
when really maybe they really all did have kitchen pigs
and it was just a funny thing that they all Yeah,
which is not too in any way downplay the importance
of interpretation and analysis, but I always wonder, like, are
you thinking about the fact that these were just people
living day to day and trying to figure their lives
out and get their needs met and maybe it's just
(05:50):
something funny to them. Yeah. I think it was the
most recent unearthed before this one that we talked about, uh,
interpreting grave goods and how, um, you know, even if
you're trying to be really objective, still your your understanding
of why a person might bury specific goods in a grave,
(06:10):
Like there's a filter through your own understanding and experience.
It's like coming through that. And one of the things
that um that I had bookmarked for this to potentially
be part of this on Earth that we didn't actually
wind up putting in the episode was a study of
of graves in Europe that previously had been people had
(06:36):
been buried with a lot of grave goods, and then
almost at the same time, all across these different burial
sites all across Europe, it was like people stopped burying
people with so many grave goods. Um And how that
suggested a lot of interconnectivity among these different cultures and
how people were approaching burying the dead, And that was
one of the things that I was like, asked, these
(06:56):
seems really interesting to me, um, But I also like
didn't find a great place to put it into into
the episode. Some of the other things that I left
out were things that were just really tragic that didn't
feel like there was a reason to talk about them. Um. Like,
I feel like we had a particularly distressing group of
(07:17):
exhumations this time around, because a lot of them were
like people who were the victims of a horrifying massacre.
To try to identify their bodies, like that was really
and you know, these are a lot of these are
people who have descendants and family we are still living today,
so it feels like somebody's really important to talk about.
But some of the things that I found h were
these conclusions that were just incredibly tragic, and I was like,
(07:38):
this doesn't feel like it has a connection to life
that we need to really get into. And we all
collectively as a planet have been living through a year
of pandemic. So maybe let's not have the needlessly really
upsetting ones that don't feel like they have a reason
to be included in this particular installment. Yeah, uh, less harrowing.
(08:02):
But one of the things that came up in this
this set of unearthed UM that is a reminder to
me of why I have started and abandoned this one
topic a dozen times is um the research around the
common origin of dogs in Siberia. UM. Similarly, we did
(08:25):
a history of of house cats a while back and
that got outdated pretty quickly. But similarly, I feel like
dogs because many people I don't know, I don't want
to generalize, and so many people have a more vested
interest in dogs and culture. But dogs are not quite
the same level of independent as cats often, right, Like, yeah,
(08:48):
we talked about how cats would like kind of get
shipped with green so that you can keep the rodents
out of the things, but they're not so much considered
like and you will love this cat and it will
sleep on your bed, and it will. But the dog
always tend to stick closer to the people, so we
know more about them. They're more deeply studied. Um. And
it's like one of those things where there's always more
things like this where I'm like, I don't even know
(09:10):
how I would begin to sort out all of the
information that we have about dogs. There's a lot because
it gets outdated like month to month in some cases.
That also makes it tricky. But perhaps one day I'll
get very brave about it. Maybe. So that seems like
(09:30):
a good place to wrap this little behind the scenes. Uh,
Happy Friday again everyone. I hope folks have a good weekend,
whatever is on on your plate, whenever is in store
for you. We'll be back tomorrow with a classic out
of the archive, and then Monday with another new episode.
And if you haven't subscribed to our show, you can.
(09:51):
Let's send the I heart Radio app and Apple podcasts
basically anywhere you could subscribe to a podcast. M Stuff
you Missed in History Class is a production of I
Heart Radio. For more podcasts from I heart Radio, visit
the I heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you
(10:12):
listen to your favorite shows. H
Welcome to stuff you missed in History class A production
of I Heart Radio, Hello and Happy Friday. I'm Tracy V.
Wilson and I'm Molly Fry. Why is that funny? UM,
it sounded like you were like on ramping hello and
(00:26):
welcome to them. Then you got you. That's great. I
feel like we're just incredibly punchy at this point in
our lives and the pandemic recording recording podcasts. We recorded
our Unearthed episodes for January February in March of twenty one.
(00:47):
I was pleased to find that there was enough interesting
stuff to have two parts, and as is always a case,
I also had other stuff that um I did not
include for one reason or another along the way. UM,
they had something in the first part that you particularly
responded to that you said we were going to say
for the behind the scenes. I think I have said
(01:07):
this before when we've talked about similar things happening on
on Earth. But in my head, because there are so
many instances of those Sulawesi wardy pigs that show up,
uh in very very very ancient art, I just presumed
that was like a trend like people had, like you know,
kitchen pigs, and it's just that like we through the
(01:30):
lens of history and trying to interpret it or like,
is this is important to their culture and we're going
to find out it was like the kitch of their era. Yeah. Uh,
they're definitely a lot of pigs in that general area. UM.
It reminds me a little what you just said. It
reminds me of some of the discussion of um, the
cave art, that is, people making handprints by you know,
(01:54):
putting the paint around their hands, so their handprint is
like the negative space, and how in some places that
is there's just a lot of that and it's sort
of similar of like what what specifically was prompting folks
to want to do this with their art? Over and over?
Was this an ancient preschool Yet I was really tickled.
(02:17):
I was simultaneously chagrined but also tickled by this. Um
this horse step that turned out to be an artifact. UM.
I mean, obviously ideally it would not. It would have
been better had there just not been this trend of
people taking artifacts back with them when they went on
their grand tours of the continent. That's not ideal. But
(02:37):
also there are so many times when I see something
around my house and I'm like, has that always been
that way? That? You know? I'm kind of glad that
some person stepped on this horse block for a decade
before being like, there's a laurel wreath on here, I've
never noticed that before. There's also part of me I've
(03:00):
see I don't love that it was probably taken from
where it originally came from, almost certainly without permission, But
there is part of me that loves just the the
interconnectivity of it that's evidenced across time and place right that, like,
there could be a thing in your life today that
(03:20):
you prize, and in two hundred years somebody could be
using it to like do something very mundane, and I
kind of love that idea that it would just be
reappropriated as a different I don't mean that in the
sense of like taking things, but just like re envisioned
as having a completely different use than it originally had,
(03:42):
and that being important in its own way. I don't
know that's I probably have an overly romantic view of
things in that regard. Yeah, I have a an antique
loom shuttle sitting on my desk as like a decoration
in a podcasting corner here in my little home office.
(04:04):
Uh and it Uh. I had not really thought about
the fact that, you know, somebody was using that loom,
that shuttle to make their living on a loom and
now it's a decoration in my home office with a computer. Yes, um,
I mean I think about that all the time with
various objects, both the objects that I have now that
(04:25):
are contemporary and what they will be perceived as one day.
You know, I always joke that, like there's going to
be a civilization one day that unearths my house and
comes to believe that, like there was a religion based
around a strange green alien creature because I have so
much grito stuff in my house, and like just the
way that it will be misinterpreted one day. It's like
(04:46):
this was clearly culturally very important. It's culturally very important.
It certainly is to me. But you know there are
things like that that I always wonder what we're getting
wrong when we look at these things, and and it
reaches back to the suluaisi pig thing, right, like what
we're interpreting incorrectly that might be mundane or like I said,
(05:07):
like kitch. While it's often associated with the modern era,
like everyone has as human beings, and I think even
many animals have this capacity for just like delight in
the simple or absurd or ornamental, And so I feel
like we forget that sometimes and presume everything has meaning
(05:29):
when really maybe they really all did have kitchen pigs
and it was just a funny thing that they all Yeah,
which is not too in any way downplay the importance
of interpretation and analysis, but I always wonder, like, are
you thinking about the fact that these were just people
living day to day and trying to figure their lives
out and get their needs met and maybe it's just
(05:50):
something funny to them. Yeah. I think it was the
most recent unearthed before this one that we talked about, uh,
interpreting grave goods and how, um, you know, even if
you're trying to be really objective, still your your understanding
of why a person might bury specific goods in a grave,
(06:10):
Like there's a filter through your own understanding and experience.
It's like coming through that. And one of the things
that um that I had bookmarked for this to potentially
be part of this on Earth that we didn't actually
wind up putting in the episode was a study of
of graves in Europe that previously had been people had
(06:36):
been buried with a lot of grave goods, and then
almost at the same time, all across these different burial
sites all across Europe, it was like people stopped burying
people with so many grave goods. Um And how that
suggested a lot of interconnectivity among these different cultures and
how people were approaching burying the dead, And that was
one of the things that I was like, asked, these
(06:56):
seems really interesting to me, um, But I also like
didn't find a great place to put it into into
the episode. Some of the other things that I left
out were things that were just really tragic that didn't
feel like there was a reason to talk about them. Um. Like,
I feel like we had a particularly distressing group of
(07:17):
exhumations this time around, because a lot of them were
like people who were the victims of a horrifying massacre.
To try to identify their bodies, like that was really
and you know, these are a lot of these are
people who have descendants and family we are still living today,
so it feels like somebody's really important to talk about.
But some of the things that I found h were
these conclusions that were just incredibly tragic, and I was like,
(07:38):
this doesn't feel like it has a connection to life
that we need to really get into. And we all
collectively as a planet have been living through a year
of pandemic. So maybe let's not have the needlessly really
upsetting ones that don't feel like they have a reason
to be included in this particular installment. Yeah, uh, less harrowing.
(08:02):
But one of the things that came up in this
this set of unearthed UM that is a reminder to
me of why I have started and abandoned this one
topic a dozen times is um the research around the
common origin of dogs in Siberia. UM. Similarly, we did
(08:25):
a history of of house cats a while back and
that got outdated pretty quickly. But similarly, I feel like
dogs because many people I don't know, I don't want
to generalize, and so many people have a more vested
interest in dogs and culture. But dogs are not quite
the same level of independent as cats often, right, Like, yeah,
(08:48):
we talked about how cats would like kind of get
shipped with green so that you can keep the rodents
out of the things, but they're not so much considered
like and you will love this cat and it will
sleep on your bed, and it will. But the dog
always tend to stick closer to the people, so we
know more about them. They're more deeply studied. Um. And
it's like one of those things where there's always more
things like this where I'm like, I don't even know
(09:10):
how I would begin to sort out all of the
information that we have about dogs. There's a lot because
it gets outdated like month to month in some cases.
That also makes it tricky. But perhaps one day I'll
get very brave about it. Maybe. So that seems like
(09:30):
a good place to wrap this little behind the scenes. Uh,
Happy Friday again everyone. I hope folks have a good weekend,
whatever is on on your plate, whenever is in store
for you. We'll be back tomorrow with a classic out
of the archive, and then Monday with another new episode.
And if you haven't subscribed to our show, you can.
(09:51):
Let's send the I heart Radio app and Apple podcasts
basically anywhere you could subscribe to a podcast. M Stuff
you Missed in History Class is a production of I
Heart Radio. For more podcasts from I heart Radio, visit
the I heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you
(10:12):
listen to your favorite shows. H
Stuff You Missed in History Class News
Hosts And Creators
Holly Frey
Tracy Wilson
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