Charles Addams, Part 2

After TV producer David Levy adapted the cartoons of Charles Addams into "The Addams Family," Charlie's life changed in a number of ways. As Addams aged, he sort of settled down, but as with everything, he did so in his own unique way. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, everybody. Before we get started with this episode, we
have one last live show to announce for We will
be in New Orleans, Louisiana, at the National World War
Two Museum on Tuesday, November six. Okay, we know that
selection day, but we don't want coming to our show
to keep you from the polls. We are both going
to vote early before we leave for New Orleans, and

(00:20):
Louisiana offers early voting as well, so we encourage you
to do so. You can find out more about this
show and get a link to buy tickets at missed
in History dot com slash tour. Welcome to Stuff you
Missed in History class from how Stuff Works dot com. Hello,

(00:44):
and welcome to the podcast. I'm Holly Fry and I'm
Tracy view Wilson. And this is of course a part
two of a two parter about Charles Adams. Uh. In
part one of this episode, we talked about the early
life of the charming and talented Charles Adams, who went
by Charlie with his friends. He started submitting cartoons to
The New Yorker when he was still a teenager in

(01:04):
art school, and by his early twenties he was a
regular contributor with a very devoted following thanks to his odd,
irreverent humor. He sometimes said he didn't think of himself
as a MacB cartoonist, just a funny cartoonist, and his
wit was irresistible to friends and romantic partners as well
as people who enjoyed his art. He had been married
and divorced twice by the end of nineteen fifty six,

(01:26):
and though his last book had not been a huge seller,
he was still considered very, very successful. And today we
are picking up right after he became a single man
once again, and that was a status that he maintained
for a very long time. So in the late fifties
and early sixties, Charles Adams enjoyed his freedom as a
successful man who was not tethered to a family. He

(01:48):
dated a whole assortment of high profile women, and that
included Greta Garbo and Joan Fontaine. Sometimes he'd go on
dates with more than one woman on a given day,
and none of them overtook his life in the way
that Barbara Barba had. He was also never deceitful about
any of this. He was very open with the women
that he was dating that he was also dating other women,
and he would talk about them to one another freely.

(02:10):
He seemed, through all of this openness, to largely avoid
issues of jealousy among the various women he was dating. Yeah,
a lot of them were in the same social circles,
which seems very strange to me. It's kind of like
the emotionally healthier version of what we talked about in
the Lady Anne Blunt episode with her husband, Wilfred Blunt,

(02:32):
who had relationships with a bunch of other women, but
it was all very secret and cloaked in weirdness. Charlie
was very open. Yeah, you know, everybody understood what the
situation was. There was no deception or gross manipulation going on. Yeah,
Lady Ann Blunt's husband was also just doing all that
without taking her into account in any of it, and
regardless of how she felt about it. Yeah, he was

(02:54):
hiding it from her, and then when she found out
about it was kind of like, so, what are you
gonna do about it? Whereas Charlie at was very upfront
with everyone and and really by all accounts, very open
and willing to talk with any of the women in
his life about how they felt about things. His relationship
with Joan Fontaine did for a little while threatened this easy,
breezy situation. Though the pair became fairly serious and marriage

(03:17):
was even discussed, but Charlie ultimately felt that Joan was
too high maintenance and often rude to his friends, and
so he did not want a permanent relationship. Things could
be kind of stormy between the two of them. He
once told a friend after she had behaved particularly badly
in a restaurant that he had quote popped her in
the jaw after the two exited the scene abruptly. But

(03:38):
the friend that he told that too, was never very
sure if it was a joke, and as far as
the Fontaine side of it, she never said anything that
would corroborate it. So we don't know if that actually
happened or not, but I wanted to mention it in
case that anybody had questions. Eventually, that pair called it quits.
Charlie felt he could never give the actress enough attention
to keep her happy, and nine sixty three, a TV

(04:01):
producer named David Levy happened to spot one of Adam's
books featuring the spooky family of characters in a bookshop window,
and he decided he wanted to option this book for
a TV series. All the Creepy Victorian cartoons had been
wildly popular in the New York or during the forties
and fifties, they weren't really appearing regularly in the magazine
by the early sixties. Yeah, the Adams family, although they

(04:25):
were not really called that in any official capacity, was
a little bit passe at that point. Um. But there
had already been many pitches to Adams to try to
adapt his work into other formats, but few of them
gave Charlie the sense that the people doing the pitching
really had the right sense of his humor and style.
There was one that he did agree to, which was
a ballet adaptation, but it never came to fruition. That

(04:48):
seems a great pity, because that is something I personally
would just yearn to see me too. I'm very excited
about that, even having ever been an idea. I'm picturing
just like Uncle Fester dancing, and I really like it.
Levy assured Adams that the unique family dynamic of the
cartoons would stay in place and be respected as it

(05:10):
was transitioned into television, and over time Adams came to
trust him on all this. They eventually struck a lucrative
deal that offered Adams generous financial compensation and enough power
to make decisions about the casting and staffing changes. As
the show was developed, Adams started to name this whole
family of ghouls. We've been using their names sometimes because

(05:32):
that makes it makes sense, but it was really now
that Mortisa Gomez, Pugsley, Wednesday, Lurch, and Granny Frump finally
gotten the names we know them by today. Yeah, Granny
Frump had actually been named in the comics, but she
was the only one. And Adams wrote these fantastic descriptions
of the characters and drew sketches of each of them

(05:52):
to guide the production. They were kind of like made
the show Bible. And of more Tisia Uh, he wrote
that she is the head of the family and low
voiced and with a driving force that kind of keeps
everything going. He called her quote a ruined beauty, and
Wednesday was described as a solemn child and pretty lost
with six toes on one ft. Pugsley was originally going

(06:15):
to be named Pubert, but the network thought that sounded
like it might be something dirty. I agree with the network.
Adams described him as an energetic monster of a boy.
Granny Frump had already been named in the cartoons. As
Holly said earlier, she was called Grandmama in the series. Quote.

(06:36):
She has a light beard and a large mole. Per
Charlie's notes, she also wears a shawl on all occasions.
Fester was quote incorrigible, and except for the good nature
of the family and the ignorance of the police, would
ordinarily be under lock and key. Lurch is written up
as quote, not a very good butler, but a faithful one.

(06:58):
And Thing actually started out a bit differently than he
ended up on the series. He or, we don't really
have a firm gender identity for Thing. In Adams's notes,
it's referred to as the thing, and he wrote, quote,
we don't really know who or what he is, but whatever,
he is the soul of good nature. At least he
grins perpetually and may occasionally whimper. Okay, just in case

(07:20):
you don't know what thing is, It's a hand. So
all of this grinning and whimpering is very funny. Of Gomez,
he wrote, quote, husband of Morticia, if they are married
at all, a crafty schemer, but also a jolly man.
In his own way. Gomez was also noted as quote
the only one who smokes, though Pugsley can be allowed

(07:41):
an occasional cigar as a fun bit of trivia. Actor
John Aston was given the final choice on the name
of the patriarch for this family. He was offered Repelli
or Gomez, and obviously he chose Gomez, Thank goodness. Uh.
John Aston was originally also not someone that Charlie Adams

(08:02):
loved for the part because he looks very different than
the way Charlie Adams drew that character, which was very
round and a little more squad. But John Aston was
a huge fan of Charles Adams, so uh, that ended
up working out. But then Barbara Barbe, his second ex wife,
got wind of this whole deal, and at that point
it became apparent that Charles Adams had really not understood

(08:24):
the nature of the divorce settlement that he had agreed to.
As you may recall from the first episode, she wanted
a number of cartoons and some properties, and he felt
like he was escaping a really bad marriage pretty easily.
But in fact Barbe had the dramatic rights to the
characters that he created. Charlie's attorney, Harriet Pillpel, who might

(08:44):
be the subject of a future episode because she was
really pretty amazing in her own right, uh, stepped in
and tried to help negotiate this deal. During this period,
Charlie was also dating Jacqueline Kennedy not long after her
husband John F. Kennedy had been assassinated. He was also
seeing other men, and he was seeing other women, but
Charlie was becoming more and more attached to her. Eventually,

(09:06):
the two of them separated, and the exact reason isn't clear.
Charlie told friends that he wasn't rich enough for her,
but told some of his closer confidence that she said
they would never marry because she asked, quote, at the
end of the day, what would we talk about cartoons?
Charlie was apparently very hurt by this comment and by
other moments when she seemed to dismiss him during discussions

(09:27):
of diplomacy or politics. Yeah, he was really pretty crazy
about her, and she, uh, you know, kind of dismissed him. Hurt.
Of course, as the Adams Family TV show progressed, Barbara
Barba continued to cause problems. She was displeased at certain
clauses in the contract, and she caused a number of
assorted other problems that she would just kind of come

(09:48):
up with one complaint after another, and Harriet Pillpel tried
to dispel these as best she could. Finally, on Friday,
September eighteenth, nineteen sixty four, that Adams family made their
television debut. Adams had mixed feelings about how the show
turned out, though John Aston was a lot more handsome
than the cartoon version of Gomez, but he really loved
the original cartoons and his charm one Adams over Caroline

(10:12):
Jones as Mortitia pleased Adams, who had said that Mortitia
was his idealized woman, and Charlie loved the theme music,
but he also thought this was sort of watered down
and less earnestly grim than his cartoons were. But he
was very, very supportive of the show publicly, and he
was really quite good natured about the adaptation from his

(10:32):
original tone. So even though there were issues that he had,
he didn't grouse about it at all publicly. He drew
the actor's original sketches of their characters as gifts at Christmas,
and he pretty much just stayed out of the way
of the production. We'll talk about his life after the
Adams Family became a show in just a moment, But
first we will pause for a quick sponsor break. So

(10:59):
the Adam Stanley took off, Charlie got a little more famous.
There are stories about people driving by his house and
out on Long Island where he would be outside grilling
and they would start singing the theme out the window
and he would just kind of give them a thumbs
up and keep going. But after the second season, the
Adams Family was canceled. It did okay, but it never

(11:20):
got fantastic ratings, and even its competitor that we mentioned
at the top of the first episode, The Monsters, got
better ratings than The Adams Family and Morticia and Gomez
and their stories, but it suffered the very same fate
at the exact same time. Those two shows actually ran
entirely in tandem. They both opened in the the fall

(11:40):
uh nineties sixty four season. They both got canceled in
sixty six. To make matters worse, the New Yorker had
stopped taking any of Charlie's Adams Family cartoons. It was
just too confusing. They felt like it being a TV
thing didn't then really work right for them to keep
publishing the Adams Family as a cartoon in their magazine,
but Adams did sneak in references to the Adams Family

(12:04):
in other cartoons. But really, his lucrative TV deal had
made it impossible for the Ghouls to continue their print
life as they had been. Instead, his work turned to
Lilliputian like little people and very surreal explorations of identity
and expectation. He was transitioning away from topics that had
been very frequent in comics for a long time, including

(12:25):
cannibals and Native people's that had been by this point
recognized as racist. And we're no longer being picked up
by publishers. Yeah, a lot of artists were coming to
terms with that, Like things that they had been drawing
for literally decades were suddenly not acceptable anymore. And some
of them were, you know, irritated by it. They're like, well,
now I have to kind of change my whole thing.
But the times were changing. Uh. In nineteen sixty seven

(12:48):
he had a chance to design his very own version
of Mother Goose in this book. Contract was lucrative, although
once again Barbara Barba got involved. She also insulted Charlie's
attorneys as incompetent in the process. The art though that
ended up coming out of this that Charles Adams created
for the book is spectacular and it is imaginative, and

(13:10):
I think it is some of his best. My very favorite,
and it is probably the most popular, is his version
of Humpty Dumpty because, as you know the Humpty Dumpty story,
he falls from the wall and cracks, But in the
Charles Adams version, when the egg cracks open, there is
a dinosaur that hatches out of it, which takes a
whole new meaning. Uh and I absolutely love it. Someone

(13:34):
else entered Charles adams life in nine seventy who would
become another big part of his identity that he was
crafting for interviews from that point forward. He adopted a dog, Mutt,
who he named Alice B. Ker She was allegedly named
after Alice B. Tokeless. His story went that he had
gone to the pound several times to visit the dog,
and then he took a friend with him to see her,

(13:55):
and while the two men were there, the attendant told him,
I'll tell you one thing about that dog. It doesn't
like children. Adams immediately answered, I'll take it. He would
follow up the story by saying that Alice would never
go for the regular but would keep children in their place. Yeah,
apparently that story of the visit to the pound with
his friend was that his friend was like, this dog

(14:16):
is clearly in love with you. Like the dog just
ran up and was like happy and wanted to be
held by him. And he's like, why she chakes his dog,
And he's like, I don't know, until the attendant said
it doesn't like kids. He's like, this is my dog.
Alice became nearly his constant companion at that point. Her
bad behavior was tolerated by friends who spoiled her, and

(14:36):
she absolutely adored Charles Adams. He brought Alice everywhere with him,
even in his cars when he was racing as part
of his hobby, and when he traveled and left her
with friends, he would write Alice postcards and apparently call
and literally beat that person. That's like, put my dog
on the phone. He once told the press, it's just
me and Alice against the world, and soon she started

(14:59):
show going up in his work. Although not his one
consistent character, but pretty much any dog he drew going
forward was Alice. In nineteen seventy one, he was walking
home from a night out and drinking with friends, and
two women accosted him on the street. They threw a
liquid on him that turned out to be acid. He
had to go to the emergency room for treatment, and
he kept his coat, which had holes in it, for

(15:21):
the rest of his life as a memento of this
bizarre brush with death. Yeah, he loved those acid holes
in that coach um. But even as Alice was becoming
more important to Charlie, he was also realizing that a
woman who had been in his life for quite some
time meant more to him than ever as well. And
that was T, his friend that had formerly been married

(15:42):
to his friend Buddy Davey. And T and Charlie had
stayed friends through all of the years, because you may
recall from the first episode, he had a brief affair
with her after his second divorce, and then in nineteen
seventy two, their correspondence with each other really shifts and
it becomes apparent that they had fallen in love. They
were living apart at this point. He was in Paris primarily,

(16:04):
she was in Europe doing some work, and Charlie was
living in New York and they were not exclusive at all.
They knew exactly who each other were, but they wrote
these very witty and sexy letters to one another constantly,
and they would tease each other about the other people
in their lives, and they spoke very openly about just
loving and adoring one another. Once she returned from Europe,

(16:26):
Charlie and Alice started spending more and more time at
Tea's house. In ninety four, Adams had a new will
drawn up where his property would all go to Barbara
barb but half of his estate was set aside for Tea.
Also in the nineteen seventies, with regime changes at The
New Yorker, the idea of keeping gag writers on staff
to feed cartoonists ideas was eliminated, and for a while

(16:49):
Adams just kept paying trusted writers out of his own
pocket so that he could keep that same source of
ideas going, and sometimes the magazine would instead by sketched
out roughs for their more season artists to recreate in
their own style. So basically, up and coming artists could
sell a rough idea for a cartoon, but then the
final cartoon would be done by one of these established names.

(17:10):
Because Adams's work had such a distinctive tone, and style,
though it was sometimes tricky to find ideas that the
magazine could purchase for him to redo that we're going
to be the right fit for the now legendary cartoonist. Meanwhile,
Barbara Barb finally filed a document that she had gotten
Charles to sign almost two decades earlier, and as a consequence,

(17:30):
she took all the possession of his property in Long Island.
Charles didn't discover this until later. It became apparent in
this move that she did not have any intention to
return any any of the property to him, as they
had discussed during the divorce. Yeah, this was like a weird,
out of left field surprise of like, oh, she suddenly
filed a lot of piece of paperwork that now put

(17:51):
me in a really bad position. But Charles continued to
maintain a friendship with Barbara Barb for the rest of
his life. It buffuddled Vertu tually everyone else in his circle.
It really irritated t but he continued to leave negotiations
of all Adams family licensing and rights deals to her,
including the nineteen seventies three animated series and later movie deals.

(18:13):
As they were starting to come up, Barbe's company continued
to issue him check, so he felt like she was
doing her job in that regard. Sometimes he even accused
his attorneys in New York of not working hard enough
to get the best possible deals for him when they
were working with entertainment lawyers, and there may have been
something to that. His contract with the Adams Family TV series,

(18:34):
for example, had no provisions for him to get any residuals,
so even though the show played in reruns for years,
he got no money for any of it. Barb, on
the other hand, was notorious for asking for huge, even
ridiculous amounts of money, but she did get much more
lucrative deals for him than his other lawyers did. Yeah,
she sounds based on the few accounts I read like

(18:58):
she was just not oorious in legal circles where they
were like, if she walks in the room, just lean
back like it's coming um. In ninety six, Charlie was
driving his car when suddenly he felt nauseated and he
lost consciousness just as he pulled off the road, and
he came to in the hospital, diagnosed with a bleeding

(19:19):
ulcer from a lifetime of heavy drinking. T took care
of everything for him while he was ill. But she
was frustrated when the hospital dismissed her in the decision
making process as just his girlfriend, and as a consequence,
as he was recovering, she really pressed Adams to get marrying.
She knew she was not his only paramore and she
did not seem to care about that, but she wanted

(19:40):
to make sure that she could take care of things
if something happened to Charlie again. Charlie quit drinking after
this episode except for wine, but no no heavy spirits uh,
And he kind of put Tea off on the marriage issue.
He still did never want to get married again. And
then late nineteen seventies the opportunity came up for the
Adams family to be revived on T again, and at

(20:01):
this point he was deferring to Barbara Barb on the
handling of all the Adams family rights, but he was
having trouble getting ahold of her, so he asked his
attorney Pill Pill to start discussing things with a studio
in California. Yeah. That of course led to problems down
the road, where Barbara Barb was irritated that other people
had been in those discussions, But this ended up not

(20:21):
being a full revival it was a reunion show for
Halloween nine, and it did come to fruition, but it
did not do well, but it did make Adams about
thirty dollars. And he was also starting to make a
lot of money through gallery showings, an element of his
business that his ex wife had no control over, so
he was getting all of the proceeds instead of on

(20:42):
those gallery sales. We'll get to the last years of
his life after another quick sponsor break. Because of the
reputation for dark humor that Adams had developed, sometimes there
were instances where Pa Boll interpreted his work in completely

(21:02):
unintended ways. One of those happened in nineteen seventy eight,
when a Thanksgiving cover that Adams drew for The New
Yorker caused a bit of confusion. That image features a
turkey farmer standing on the porch of his farmhouse, and
the turkeys in the wide barnyard have formed up into
military style regiments, presumably with intent to rebel against their

(21:23):
holiday fate. But some readers took this as a commentary
on Nazi Germany because the barnyard representation was to them
a little too reminiscent of concentration camps. There's also a
lot of brown which I don't know if there there's
like a subconscious brown shirt association going on. I don't
know what the deal is, but a lot of people
thought that was what it was, and he was like, no, no,

(21:44):
it's just turkeys. Also, on May thirty one, nineteen eighty,
Charlie and T got married in the pet cemetery at
her home. Their dogs, including Alice, were attendants at the ceremony.
Tea's College aid son was Charlie's best man, and T
were addressed me out of black velvet. Joseph Heller and

(22:05):
Cheryl Teagues were among the guests. Although a lot of
the guests did not know they were going to a wedding.
They thought they were just going to a party to
celebrate the recent honor of Charlie's which is an honorary PhD. Yeah,
he had finally realized like, hey, it would actually be
probably pretty beneficial for Tea to be able to handle
my legal affairs because my health isn't really getting any better. Uh.

(22:25):
He had had another ulcer situation and and some other
problems arise, and also he kind of realized it was
going to make her probably happy, so he just finally
was like, oh, let's do it, and they did it
very quickly. But the couple still lived the exact same
lives that they had before the wedding. Charlie lived at
Tea's house on Long Island on the weekends and then
in his apartment in Manhattan during the week But they

(22:47):
both seemed really, really happy in this new marriage. They
traveled together, they enjoyed each other's company, and t never
expected Charlie to be anything but discreet about his extramarital activities.
Even in his later life, his work really continued to
delight people. He tried to stay away from topical or
trendy topics, but he did mock health, food and modern

(23:08):
marriage on occasion. When he was interviewed for a piece
in the Washington Post in two the article referred to
him as the house haunt of the New Yorker. In
the late nineteen eighties, Charlie had another ulcer scare, as
well as a carotid artery surgery, and his eyesight also
really started to decline. He had to give up even
wine recall he had given up heavier spirits before then,

(23:31):
uh and he started to socialize less. One of the
things was that he just if he couldn't go to
a party and have a drink of any kind, he
just didn't want to be around a bunch of drunk people.
And t noted that after his carotid artery surgery he
really came out a much changed man. The normally jolly
Charlie had started to have grumpier days. He was still fun,
but he was slowing down, and he stopped keeping the

(23:54):
notes that he had always copiously written in his date book.
His dog, Alice died in Juno seven, and she had
been his companion for seventeen years. He didn't talk about
it much, but he kept her inscribed food dish after
that as a treasured item. It's left his time in
Manhattan feeling a little lonely. He wanted Tea to come

(24:14):
into the city with him during the week sometimes, but
she insisted on staying at the place that they moved
to in Sagaponic, New York, which they nicknamed the Swamp.
And although he spent less and less time at his
office at the New Yorker, when he was there, he
was very open and willing when young cartoonists came to
talk to him or just get advice. On Thursday September
twenty nine, Charlie had a heart attack while sitting behind

(24:37):
the wheel of his parked car just outside his New
York apartment. He was taken to the emergency room immediately
after he was found, but he was pronounced dead. He
was seventy six later. In an interview with The New
York Times, t who shared his sense of humor, said
he's always been a car buff so it was a
nice way to go. And he was remembered by friends

(24:58):
as a charming man and a great friend and a
really good listener. And what was really interesting is that
despite his womanizing we've been talking about throughout these two episodes,
most of the women in his life described him above
all as their great, great friend, one of the few
men in their lives who was willing to listen and
talk with them in a way that was not a
constant effort at seduction. Everyone from Lauren Bicall to Kurt

(25:21):
Vonnegut to Burgess Meredith more and Adams, either in person
at the services or in letters to his widow. T
Charlie's ashes were interred at the Swamp and the Pet Cemetery,
which t Adams had transplanted when they moved there. He
kept the location of Charlie's ashes secret for fear of
fans showing up, and then when she died fourteen years later,
her ashes were laid to rest next to his le Laurens,

(25:44):
the New Yorker's cartoon editor in the early nineteen eighties,
once described how very surprisingly normal Charlie was to a reporter.
He said, quote, He's an urbane, relaxed, congenial man of
great civility. He doesn't eat babies. A mirror on canvas
that Charlie painted in nineteen fifty two forever a Hampton's
Hotel has been quietly on display at the Pennsylvania State

(26:08):
University Library since two thousand. It was donated by an
alumnus who owned the hotel at one time, but it's
been sort of tucked away in this out of the
way area, not particularly noticed. It depicts the family of
Gomez Mortitia, Uncle Fester, Lurch, Grandma Frump, and the children
at the beach. Gomez is fishing and seems to have
caught something. Fester is that they're ready with a net,

(26:30):
and then panicked looking swimmers are getting out of the water.
As of a few months ago, the Library was in
the midst of renovation plans that was happening in July,
and the mural was expected to get a more prominent
place once the construction was complete. So there was an
update to that article which ran just last month, which
was September. It has been decided that that mural is

(26:55):
now relocated to the newly renovated and renamed it's called
mckinn ends Lounge. It's on the first floor of Paternal
Library at Penn States University Park campus. So UM, since
we have just passed the thirtieth anniversary of his death,
they were putting it there as part of that celebration.
So I don't know the policies of that campus and

(27:15):
if the public can go visit, but if you can
and you're nearby, highly encourage it. It's a really beautiful piece.
It's huge. It's fourteen feet long, it's four ft high.
It is not a small piece of art at all.
Uh and now it is in a location where you
can actually view it from an appropriate vantage point for
a piece of art that large. So that is Charles Adams,
who I clearly adore UM and wish that I could

(27:38):
travel back in time to hang out with doesn't that
sound like fun? Do you also have a listener mail?
I do. Uh. We have gotten a number of postcards
from our listener, Alice, traveling around the world. I will
read one that she sent us from Vietnam. This was
back in August. So I'm, like I said, still catching
up with our our postcards. Always I try to keep
them aside and read them when I can, and sometimes

(27:59):
it takes a little while. She says. This postcard is
coming to you from the Saigon Central Post Office, which
was constructed in the late nineteenth century and often erroneously
credited to Eiffel Poor Alfred Felt, who the actual designer
every nook and cranny of Ho Chiman City. Saigon has
so much history and rich culture behind it. Yesterday I
walked by an unassuming building whose rooftop was featured in

(28:20):
Huvanny's iconic Fall of Saigon photo. As I am physically
traveling alone, you two are keeping me company as I
go on a museum, food and coffee tour slash binge
around the city. Thanks to the wonderful work you do.
Alice seems like she is having or had I presume
the tour is over. The most amazing trip imaginable. I
feel like she should plan trips for other people because,
like I said, we have assorted postcards and she went

(28:41):
fantastic and amazing places. So, Alice, my hat is off
to you, and thank you for sharing your travels with us.
I'm glad we kind of got to go with you. Uh.
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(29:03):
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(29:27):
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