June 27, 2012 • 40 mins
In this episode, Sarah and Deblina visit the Georgia Renaissance Festival. Interviews with musician Luca Callo and TechStuff's Jonathan Strickland give us an understanding of processes they use to recreate Renaissance characters, music and culture.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Stuff you missed in history class from how
Stuff Works dot com. Hello and welcome to the podcast.
I'm Deblina Choko reboarding and I'm fired douty and Lords
and ladies, thou art most fortunate to Lynnine is too.
I Lord Admiral, Duke of Suffolk, Vicount lyle Edmund Vandory
(00:25):
the third, at thy service. Thank you Admiral for joining
us today. We met the Admiral recently at the Georgia
Renaissance Festival, where Sarah and I went to kind of
check out the Renaissance scene and see what it's all about,
immerse ourselves and Renaissance culture, and so, Admiral, we were
wondering if you could tell us a little bit about
what you do there. Oh, certainly, certainly well, of course,
(00:47):
as Lord Admiral, I'm in charge of his Majesty's navy.
His Majesty, of course, being Henry the eighth King of England,
King of France, Defender of the Faith, Lord of Ireland.
You might have seen him. He's all all the coins.
Nice fellow, lovely fellow. He's also got a lovely wife
and Berlench she's got a good head on her shoulders
wonderful lady, and tis my duty to oversee his navy now,
of course, being King in the eighth his navy consists
(01:09):
of eight boats and a fish, so it's not terribly taxing.
Mary Rose too, we've discussed that one before, and Faith
named after his sister. Interesting. So what's it like to
work for the king? For King Henry the A, it's
mostly rewarding. His king is a very very rewarding king,
as long as you do not get upon his bad side.
(01:32):
You see, one day I sailed off from England, returned,
discovered that the entire religion at change while I was gone,
made a mistake of making a Catholic joke, and next
thing I knew, I was threatened to be about eight
inches shorter than I had started out. But everything turned
out well. So he's not very tolerant of He has
a threshold for certain subjects that you do not wish
(01:54):
to go. He might be listening right now, so you
might not want to say anything too critical of the king. Well,
we did get some different takes on the king also,
which we might share a little later on. Sarah and
I got to talk to a lot of different characters.
Well at the Renaissance Festival. We also checked out some
Renaissance music, some jousting, what else, Sarah, Well, we were
(02:15):
invited there by the Tortuga Twins, so we got to
see some comedy shows and um, yeah, just blacksmithing, all
sorts of things, and just a lot of people having
a very good time on a summer's day outside of Atlanta,
walking around in authentic costumes themselves or just like us,
plain clothes and having a good time. And we're the
(02:37):
ones wearing the normal clues. The one's wearing the outlandish costumes,
often having thy ankles upon for displaying Heaven's sake, and
even strange black boxes that we were carrying around true
a tape recorder with us. We stand corrected. We were
indeed the unusual one. So we're not done with the
Admiral yet. We're going to come back to him in
(02:59):
a little bit. But we did, as we mentioned, talked
to a lot of other characters at the Renaissance Festival
kind of um in our quest to find King Henry
the Eighth and Anne Boleyn. It was our quest an
unsuccessful one, unfortunately, although we did see them, we just
didn't talk to them. Yeah, we saw them from Afar,
but we really wanted to get the chance to talk
to them because we heard such great things about them,
(03:21):
such interesting things, I should say, but I have to say, Sarah,
I thought that one of the most difficult parts about
the Renaissance of us was just getting to everything that
we wanted to go to. Yeah, well, and that was
partly because we had a mission and we had certain
things we wanted to see. I think most of the
people there were just sort of taking it easy, muntion
on a turkey leg and just stopping wherever they were interested,
(03:44):
not running around with a microphone like crazy women. We
were the only people with that. But one of the
people that we did run into, luckily, was the Friar.
We didn't intend to and we just happened upon him
at the tavern, and he was definitely one of the
most colorful folks that we ended up talking to, and
he gave us some insight on a lot of things,
including religion, of course, which the Admiral touched on a
(04:07):
little bit, and our favorite topic, the King and Queen.
Here's what he had to say, What was your man,
Finnigan of the body of Bodacious bothers in brown Bohemian
Brethren that you may call me Friar. So how do
you know the King and Queen? Well, I have heard
rumor that King Henry is actually thinking of starting his
own church. I find that very Protestant of him, very
(04:31):
Protestant of him. Yes, he doesn't like the Pope very
much either. So I was brought here to Newcastle so
that I could actually help the king understand that what
he feels is really true. There's no reason to give
money to the Holy Roman Empire when you're trying to
build up your own church. I just wish you'd keep
his hands off the abbey. Um, so we have no
gold in the abbey. We have no gold in the abbey?
(04:52):
Can we bury it out? Don't tell the king. It's
quite well. Actually, the burials are going quite well. Yes,
it looks just like a big, huge cemetery out there.
We have grave stones with things like you know, Goldie
and Silvery and Coper read their funny names. But it
works on the headstones that way, we don't have to
worry about making change. And how's the whole church starting things?
(05:15):
So far? So far, things are going pretty well. We
do have quite a few people who insisted the Catholic
Church is the only way to go understandable. Very few
people here to read. To be honest with you, they
don't want to read the Bible. They don't want to
have to interpret Deuteronomy. I mean, really, who does. But
you can do that for them? I can, I can't.
I just don't know if they trust my opinion. I
would you trust my opinion and Deuteronomy? I don't know.
(05:37):
I find you pretty I can imagine you getting some
puns in there. I could, I'm very well could, and
I'm afraid that they would. They would do that. I
tend to tell people to read the New Jestment. Stick
with that. It's a little bit easier to understand. So
one of the things the Admiral had also recommended we
do was check out some genuine Renaissance music. And we
really wanted to do that to you, not just because
(05:59):
we're bothly into music, but because music was such a
huge part of life during the Renaissance period. I mean,
you can imagine Henry the eighth with his court musician,
enjoying conversation and lovely tunes. But whether you were out
and about or at church, or of course hanging out
at the king's court during the years generally spanning from
(06:20):
fourteen hundred to sixteen hundred in Europe, you were bound
to hear some kind of music. Yeah, According to an
article by Rebecca Arkenberg of the Metropolitan Museum of Arts
Department of Education. Though most of the important music of
the early Renaissance was composed for use by the Catholic Church,
and this was evidence in polyphonic masses and motets that
(06:40):
incorporated several melodies at the same time, but by the
end of the sixteenth century, composers incomes came from several sources.
They were paid by the Catholic Church again, but also
Protestant churches and courts, wealthy amateurs and music printers to
create music. So you might sponsor a piece of music, yes, exactly.
Arkeenberg also says that the early fifteenth century was dominated
(07:04):
by English and Northern European composers, but over the next
century or so, Franco Flemish composers also came into the mix,
and ideas from Italy and Germany and France began to
kind of influence everything that was going on in that
scene as well. So more of what Arkeenberg calls in
quote international European style begins to emerge around this time,
(07:26):
kind of a hybrid of different countries musical traditions. Almost
by the beginning of the sixteenth century, though, the first
collection of printed music was published by a Venetian printer,
and the introduction of music printing allowed more people to
learn to read music. So just as you have the
printing presses, you know, spreading literacy, same thing with music
(07:47):
almost and before this time music had to be learned
by ear or from music that was copied out by hands,
so usually only religious institutions or really rich people were
able to do that. Again, kind of like books. I mean,
if months are having to uh copy everything out, not
too many people are going to own books. That's very true.
That century also saw the use of several musical instruments,
(08:10):
including the viola da gamba, which was a newer one,
the lute, to the recorder, the harpsichord, and the organ
and more. Instrumental music also came on the scene and
was developed during these years. Before this time, instruments were
typically for vocal accompaniments, so that was something a little
bit different. To get an idea of how Renaissance festival
(08:32):
performers might recreate the music of this period. We talked
to Renaissance festival performer Luca Callo about the music that
he plays, which is Renaissance and inspired, and how he
pulls that off. I mean, he didn't learn these songs
by ear, so we wanted to learn, you know, first
of all, where he finds the music, how he chooses
it and um, then how he makes it come to life.
(08:52):
And here's what he told us. All of the pieces,
except for one or two, are actually historical songs um
period pieces that I have learned, mostly off of other
performers that I admire and look up to. So I
learned a lot of pieces arely like most musicians of
(09:13):
the period would have been done, and then try to
do them in my own way and come into like,
oh yes, all of them except to our period pieces awesome.
So how did you learn these? Um? A lot of
other winfare performers and people that play in the st
a um his orb are networks. And have you had
to do any particularly historical research to play him in
(09:34):
the style of the period, like have you a little bit? Um?
My guitar is strong and tuned like a loot. So
I have been learning off the loot tab and so
I can play a loop style piece and um, just
a lot of listening to period pieces, whether it be
off of sheet music that has replications of pieces are
off of potic performers that do period stale music said,
(09:57):
God do so do awesome? Getting off so this who Britain?
The moment segment? Dost not this seconds? So that was
(10:32):
great to talk to Luca Carlo and learn a little
bit more about the music we were likely to hear
in the Renaissance. But the other thing we couldn't leave
the festival without doing was check out jousting. And actually,
I think besides meeting the King and Queen, jousting was
probably the experience that was recommended to us most and
the thing that we were just most determined to do.
(10:53):
And it definitely seems like the main attraction that Renaissance
fust and they have um several jousting tournaments throughout the day,
so I imagine people come and check in periodically because
the storyline progresses throughout the day too. It's not like
you're seeing the same tournament three times, right, Most people
at least have an idea of what jousting is and
(11:13):
have maybe seen an example of it in a movie
or something. It generally conjures up images of two nights
charging towards each other with a lance, each aiming for
the other shield, trying to knock it, or trying to
knock his opponent off the horse. I mean, we've all
kind of seen some iteration of this. Jousting appears to
have started out in the Middle Ages, though actually around
(11:34):
the beginning of the twelfth century, and in its earliest form,
which I didn't know this before, it wasn't a one
on one thing. According to Nigel stol and History today,
early jousting tournaments were chaotic competitions between groups of knights
that teams would sometimes consist of hundreds of knights who
were using these tournaments as a way to kind of
(11:54):
bond or unite themselves as fighters. So as you might
have imagined, it has its roots in war training, and
that does make sense if you think that's more likely
to be the condition of the battlefield. It's not going
to just be the two nights out there all by themselves.
Very true, but Saul points out that even at those
early jeels, there was an element of entertainment there because
there were audiences for them, and there's even evidence that
(12:16):
spectators stands were built as early as the eleven seventies. Yeah,
but by the time the Renais thoughts rolled around, jelasting
had really developed into something of a true spectator sport,
almost like how we would think of a spectator sport today,
valued mainly for the entertainment that it provided. And Saul
talked also a little bit about nights as celebrities, and
(12:38):
there was an element of showmanship to what they did.
I've actually read before that they're they're heralds, you know.
Their flags that they were were something that we're a
little bit akin to how you would recognize a face today.
You might not recognize the night's face because he wears armor,
he's far away from you, you probably don't have good vision,
but you could recognize his his standard, his flag. Well,
(13:00):
there just really wasn't you know, There wasn't the media
culture that there is now. You couldn't just look in
US Weekly and see a picture of your favorite nights.
So that was the way that people would recognize their
favorite Yeah, and I mean a lot of the stories
of knights and their jous were um proliferated through stories
that were told about them or stories that were written
about them, yes, or songs. So we had a little
(13:22):
bit of a taste of the celebrity culture at the
Renaissance Fest. To Sarah mentioned earlier, at the jous that
we witnessed, the crowd was enormous. I mean, I think
that we thought at the time that pretty much everyone
at the festival had sort of packed into the middle
to see the jous during that thirty to forty minutes
or however long it took, and the crowd actually picked sides.
(13:43):
About half the crowd would root for a certain night
while the rest bowed him. And there was definitely showmanship
as you mentioned, preening even on the part of the Knights,
and display of skill and even a little bit of
cheaty act from our guy. Why about conshimmery Now this
(14:03):
b just just ruis and chase me, And I asked,
as you run to the ready, it's because on the
day on the Redding on fast, let this chop chop.
I'm trying to for on the down, I said, and
(14:32):
you run to read I pad chop Okay, I'm trying
for on the jail, I said, at your rules ready,
(14:54):
I'm ana gas prepared chop I ready, I'm a chop
(15:21):
fine fine striped, running bout my day. I'm a day
on your shoes. Oh yeah, funning without his magazine say stop.
(15:54):
So we were on Amadeo's side and um, yeah, there
was a little bit of of cheating going um and
yeah that they challenge each other to that match to
the death Jealous to the death, which we heard later
from the Admiral is quite the show. Unfortunately we didn't
get to see that. But there's even fire breathing. So
(16:16):
these guys, in addition to being um historical performers, are
really talented technical performers too. Yeah, that's so true. Just
the fact that they can stay on a horse and
use that lance and do everything. I mean, I was
pretty important. I saw several times a day. Yeah, and
keep on going. But another personal highlight for us of
this festival was getting to meet a couple of listeners
(16:37):
that's always a highlight for us whenever we're out and about,
and it was Ron and Ricky and they were actually
the ones who invited us to the festival in the
first place. They perform at the festival's part of an
act called the Tortuga Twins, and we got to see
them put on a funny parody of Robin Hood, incorporating
members of the audience, luckily not us. I hate that.
(16:57):
I was just sitting there the entire time. We don't
pick me, Dope, we don't pick me. I don't want
to go to change made Marian no, thank you. Afterward,
they talked to us a little bit about what it's
like to work at the festival, whether Robin Hood was
a real guy, and of course our favorite topic, the
King and Queen. Can you guys introduce yourselves for us?
(17:22):
Welcome that we are here with the very some stuff
you mis say history Glass, So tell us a little
bit about what you've worked about the Renaissance. Well, what
we've learned about the Renaissance is that really people haven't
been paying attention. Were just student days of some of
the Renaissance vesivals all over the country, and their first
(17:42):
question I always like to ask us, all right, children, students,
you're here for what does renaissance mean? So maybe maybe
if we're lucky, teach, But it's it's great. I learned
that boy, compared to Da Vinci, I'm not doing anything
with my life. Uh, we've learned that there is a
historical precedential what we do, but it's not an honorable one. Um,
(18:04):
we learned that we're very happy to be able to
reenact into songs but living this time now. Yes, I'm
a big fan of antibiotics and indoor plumbing. So we
just got the Robin Hood Show. Do y'all have any
ideas about who might be the real Robin Hood? I
know they're a lot of depend Oh wow, Yeah, I
personally believe that he was completely in this. I personally
believe that he's uh and I know they talked about
(18:25):
Locksley in a couple of the ones on that. I
personally believe that he's just I'm not that much of
many characters. It's it's it's like difficult stories, you know,
you start recreating one all of a sudden you realize
that the same thing as a scenarian miss and he
just gets awesomely complicated there, Yeah what he said? Yeah, So,
who are your favorite personalities here? Do you know? The
King and Queen? The King and Queen are awesome here. Um,
(18:46):
oh gosh, there's a pirate. There's a pirate here that
just charming. Ladies, be careful around that part. He's so charming.
In fact, you try to hire him for the troop
for Francis Drake friends. Okay, so, now that we've gotten
(19:06):
a chance to talk about some of the fun things
we thought our day at the Renaissance Festival, we do
still have the Lord Admiral in the room and we
want to ask him some questions. Except, um, some of
you might have already guessed this by now if your
podcast listeners, the Lord Admiral is really our own Jonathan
Stricklin of Tech Stuff. Hey, there, So Jonathan, tell us
(19:29):
a little bit about how you got involved with the
Renaissance Festival, because you've been doing it for a long time. Sure,
all right. So back in I was in a show
that was going to be performed at a science fiction convention,
and one of the other actors in that show was
a performer with the Renaissance Festival, and she had revealed
(19:50):
that there was going to be some auditions coming up.
And back then in ninety nine, the festival had two seasons.
They did a fall season in a spring season, and
so I decided along with my wife, to audition for
this and we went in and we auditioned. I happen
to have the best audition of my entire life for
the Renaissance Festival, which is both a funny story and
(20:11):
a sad one. And as a result, I was hired
and I was given the opportunity to play the Lord
Mayor of the Festival, and I did that for several seasons.
I took a leave of absence for a while, and
then I came back on as a favor to uh
the the entertainment director, who was having some some turnover
problems with some of the cast on a particular season.
(20:34):
And the thing was they had already hired a new
person to play the Lord Mayor, and I had not
gone through the entire rehearsal process to build a new character.
So rather than try and design something haphazardly, I essentially
took the same character, gave him the new title of
Lord Admiral, modeled him a little bit after a couple
of different historical figures, and came back on and worked
(20:58):
there for well well up through two thousand twelve. So
when we went to the festival, Jonathan was actually the
very first person we saw right over the entrance. He
hailed us as Lady Sarah and Lady Dablina, and um
I was immediately struck by your costume because I do
love costumes, and also it was such it was such
a shock. You were clearly not Jonathan, you were the
(21:19):
Lord Admiral. You look very different from you from how
you do day to day, although we do notice you
grow out your your goatee every year. So what kind
of how did you how did you pick out your costume,
how did you put it together, and what kind of
historical research went into it. That's an excellent question. And
this is different for every single person at the festival.
Most of us we provide our own costumes. There are
(21:42):
very few costumes of the festival itself owns that that
characters use. But in my case, what I did was
I wanted to look at some typical doublets from earlier
than the festival year. The festival year is I was
looking at a round fifteen twenty, so I was looking
(22:02):
at things that would be outdated by the time it
got around. Thinking that the Lord Admiral is someone who's
very wealthy but also kind of thrifty and miserly. He
doesn't doesn't want to spend more money updating his his
his entire wardrobe, and so I found a design of
a doublet from the fifteen twenties that was really intricate
(22:22):
and interesting to me. And I took that design to
a seamstress here in Atlanta, and I said, can we
make something similar but not identical to this, because I
don't want to lift someone else's design, but I want
something that kind of evokes this same feeling. And so
she and I worked together, and that piece is a
one of a kind piece specifically tailored to me and uh,
(22:43):
and it does have that fifty era feel to it,
because as you get closer to Henry's time, the doublets
start getting shorter, and you start having things like the
the the short hose and the pumpkin pants and things.
And I said, I do not want that. I do
not want to have to worry about a cod piece.
(23:04):
I want I want a nice loan doublet that goes
down to say, mid thigh. And uh. And because I
think that's sort of the character and so different people
went about it in different ways trying to come up
with their costumes and so uh. The costumes for the
King and Queen are incredibly elaborate, and they were both
designed by the actress who plays the Queen. She is
(23:26):
a very competent seamstress in her own right. And so
you get to that level of incredible detail and amazing
costume prowess, if you will, all the way down to
the peasants who are wearing very simple uh you know,
it might be a simple shirt or tunic, uh, some
simple hose and then some really ratty shoes and then
(23:49):
they roll around the dirt all day. How do you
guys maintain them too? I mean, I'm thinking at the
time when these people were wearing elaborate clothes like this,
it was a bit of a cold spell around the world.
But you know, this is Atlanta, this is the summer.
How do you how do you keep them going for
a few months? How much deodorant do you? Yeah, the
(24:10):
good actors go through quite a bit. Um. There are
a couple of things. One, we try and use as
many materials that will wake away sweat as much as possible,
so a lot of cottons. You know, you wanna try
and keep things as cool as possible considering the weather
that we get in Georgia. Another part is that we
(24:31):
maintain our own temperatures by drinking lots and lots of
ice water. So we have ice water stations hidden and
around the festival so that we can go and quickly
fill up our mugs. We everyone is required to have
two things. You're required to have a hat and you're
required to have a mug. And the mug is so
that you know, you're supposed to keep it at least
(24:51):
half full of ice water all day long, so if
you start getting low, you're supposed to go back and
refill as soon as you possibly can. That helps a lot. Also,
just pacing your else, staying in the shade, just general
rules that you learn as a performer. Also, you learn
very quickly you don't want to go all out on
from opening gate through lunch because you'll be completely burned
(25:12):
out and you have nothing left for the second half
of the day because we're open from ten thirty in
the morning until about six thirty at night and you're
on that entire time. So temperature aside, what is it
like to be part of that world for that many
hours a day, for so many weekends out of the year.
On a good day, it's amazing. So on a good
day where there are a lot of people and they're playful, uh,
(25:35):
you get re energized by the fact that people will
play with you. Especially kids, they have no sense of
self consciousness. They buy into it being silly. They understand
it silly, but they love being silly, and the actors
love being silly too, So it really helps when you
run into adults who kind of have that that they've
built those barriers up where being silly feels like it's
(25:57):
not right. That gets a little more challenging. On slow
days or days where the weather is a little a
little rough, that can be the biggest challenge. It's not
the fact that you're out there in those conditions, it's
the fact that the audience is in those conditions and
they are less prone to playing a little grumpy yeah,
and so it means you have to work extra hard
(26:17):
to connect with your audience, and that is what is exhausting.
So in addition to costumes, um, what sort of historical
research goes into building your character. That's an excellent question too,
And again this depends very much upon the sort of
character you play. Let me go through the character building
(26:37):
process really quickly. It's pretty simple. So you audition, and
once you audition, the production staff gets an idea of
where you might fit within the hierarchy of the festival.
Whether you might, you know, you tend to skew as
more of a noble character or more of a peasant character,
perhaps one of the middle class. Uh. The idea being
(26:59):
that where would you be the most entertaining? So once
we figure out where you're in the most entertaining, then
we start to figure out what role should you fill
in the festival. And all of our characters are very,
very focused on specific roles, and you'll notice it immediately.
For example, the fashion consultant to the Queen is obsessed
with the color pink, and she ties pink bows on
(27:21):
anyone who stands still long enough for her to do so.
And you know, that's a that's a fun character trait.
So in that sense, you're really concentrating on the entertainment
factor first, and historical accuracy maybe fifth or six, it's
not even second. Really. Once you get to that, though,
you then have to start thinking, all right, well, we've
settled the year as fifty five, how would this silly character,
(27:45):
how would this character inhabit that world? Now, in my case,
I'm playing the part of a lord admiral. Now there's
an actual historical analog to that which I obviously could
not be because the Lord Admiral at the time of
five is Henry the hates illegitimate son who was a
teenager at the time and only lived to be about
(28:05):
fifteen or sixteen years old before he died, So I
can't pass for a teenage kid anymore. I'm in my
thirties and that that ship sailed a long time ago,
so there are certain things I have to sacrifice. And
it's always interesting when I run into people who have
enough historical background to ask me tough questions about the
(28:27):
actual roles that I play. So I've had people ask
me about Lord Admiral questions where they clearly knew their
their historical stuff, and I get to make up answers
or they know because I gave my character the titles
of Duke of Suffolk and the count Lyle. That's Charles Brandon,
who married one of Henry's sisters, Clandestinary. I had someone
(28:48):
asked me about that, so could you comment upon Henry's sisters?
I thought, oh, you're trying to trap me. The King's
sitting right next to me, so I very gently got
out of that before it became too big of a bit.
Because the King, the guy who plays the King is
sharp and he knows his stuff too, and he would
(29:10):
have no hesitation in bringing me in front of everybody
and punishing Oh dear, Yeah, they cut my beard off
in front of everybody and vanished from from the kingdom. Yeah,
I noticed that the beads are gone. Um. It's funny though.
You know, we were talking about historical and accuracies with
you earlier too, and I wondered if you would just
(29:32):
go over some of those and then go over yeah.
I mean, how often do do people call things out too?
I mean that's you're talking about people who clearly know
their history. But do people ever come up to you
with just random things about the festival that they consider inaccurate?
Teenagers are really good about that, teenagers or just just
(29:53):
they just like to They just like to try and
push your buttons, so they'll point out, for first of all,
all the food to the festival. I mean you're talking
about food that is not period at all, and you
would period or potatoes which have made their way back
to England yet or tea tea is not that's you know,
people think about it. The Queen loves her tea despite
(30:15):
the fact that it's a complete anachronism, or the fact
that will quote Shakespeare who was not yet really a
thing in not being born. Uh, there are a lot
of little inaccuracies. And again the focus of the festival
is entertainment, not education or historical accuracy. That's why we
we have this love hate relationship with the Society of
(30:37):
Creative Anachronism, which is a nonprofit organization that's all dedicated
about educating about the Middle Ages up to the Renaissance,
and including some stuff in the Renaissance as well. And
they kind of look down their nose at us and
the some some of them anyway, and the response is
essentially this is really it's it's entertainment first, and we
do not pretend otherwise. It is a Renaissance themed entertainment venue.
(31:02):
And uh. And so the food definitely not period. A
lot of the costumes aren't as well. I went early
with mine, so I felt like I was all right,
although I did wear a cavalier hat, which was well
outside the period of Henry the Eighth. But a lot
of the queen's dresses and her ladies in waiting they
had bum rolls which were not really used in in
(31:25):
female costume. Female clothing until almost a hundred years after
when the festival is set. But it's an idea of
creating this picture that people think of when they think Renaissance,
the Renaissance and sort of I guess, almost combining the
whole long period of the Renaissance until one day and
you'll see you'll see who would have who had been
(31:48):
dead almost almost two decades by then. Yeah, he's very
lively for a corpse um. Uh, yeah, I know, he's
he's great. The actor who plays him as great. And
and you'd also see things like you'd see people wearing
costume from different parts of the world and in different eras,
so it's not just the Renaissance of England that is represented.
(32:09):
You'll see clothing that is more Italian and a lot
of belly dance coin skirt yeah, very popular. Okay. So
that being said, there is an educational aspect to the
festival too though, right. Yeah. We have a student Day
every year, uh, and this is a day when when
schools can send bus loads of students to the festival
(32:29):
and we have a series of shows that are very
much educational where we talk about historical events. There's one
that's about the wives of Henry the eighth, and they
give a quick rundown of all the different wives their fates.
Why why did Henry the eighth have that many wives?
What happened each one? Uh? And uh. There's also a
(32:50):
little fun in that, and of cleaves is traditionally played
by a man um, but you know there there's that.
There's also a sentation that's all about superstitions during the Renaissance.
There's one on the manners and mannerisms of people during
the Renaissance, talking about the various customs and why they
(33:11):
are the way they are and why some of the
things we do today are related to what went on
in the Renaissance. So there is an educational part of
the Renaissance Festival, But on a typical Renaissance festival day, uh,
it's not as big a role. Although we have people
come in and ask us questions. The King and Queen
have their own little throne room area and they're there
(33:33):
throughout the day at different parts of the day, and
we often have people come in and ask us questions then,
and we're more than happy to answer them to the
best of our ability. And that's one thing again that
the King and Queen are very good at they remember
who remembers more about different sections? Oh Lord, Admiral, why
do you not answer that question? It would be most
happy to address this issue nicely. You don't refuse the
(33:57):
king ever, right never. You never know. You make it
up if you don't know it. If you make it
up and you make it silly enough, people will buy it. Right. Well,
we were talking to the Tortuga twins actually a little bit,
and they were telling us some of the things that
kids are surprised to learn on those student days. Where
is there anything that you think is kind of shocking
that people don't know when they come in? Um? Yeah, yeah,
(34:21):
there's a good example where one of the kids piped up,
uh and was a sort of a no at all
type kid, which I identify with immediately. That's my personality
right there. But this no, one would never say that. No,
but it's fine. I'm a self identifying no at all
but this but and I've also been in this position.
(34:41):
This was a no at all who had something incredibly wrong,
and so he was looking at Henry the Eighth and
had identified this is King Henry the Eighth and pipes
up with where's Marie Antoinette? Yes, and whereupon I got
actually watched Henry the Eighth as an actor named John
on I watched John's face turn about eight Shades of Red,
(35:03):
where he finally was able to formulate a response that
had no inappropriate language in it and explain that that's
not the right time period right, not the right time period,
not the right country, and that the young person should
perhaps put down the iPad and pick up a book.
That was That was the end of his little tirade,
(35:25):
as I recall, Well, but we don't want to say that,
because maybe the kids should listen to the history podcast. Well,
that would also help Henry the Eighth may listen to this.
John I think has not picked up on this particular
podcast yet. So what are you going to do now
that you're retiring from the Renaissance Festival? How are you
gonna keep your Renaissance fixed going? I mean, I'd imagine
(35:47):
after all these years you've developed even healthier interest than
a typical English major would have in the Renaissance. Sure, well,
one is that it looks like I'm still going to
have a hand and at least in writing some of
the the scenario for the Renaissance Festival. Now the Georgia Festival.
We have sort of an over a story that progresses
(36:09):
throughout the day, and that story is something that you
can follow if you want to, and it's it's not
necessary for you to enjoy the festival. If you don't
encounter the story, that's fine, but if you want to,
you can follow along. I will still have a hand
in that, and I'll probably show up at least once
or twice to do a guest performance. And also, I mean,
(36:30):
I'm still I'm still an actor, so occasionally I'm going
to go out and audition for shows that may have
something to do with the Renaissance. I do love Shakespeare,
so I'll probably audition for more Shakespeare shows. Beyond that,
I think I will go as a patron and enjoy
my time there as in plain clothes and being able
to whenever I want. Maybe you'll break out the admiral
(36:52):
costume at one of our Halloween days in the office,
or's something maybe I think maybe I think I wore
at once for did I. I guess I never did
bring it all into the office because it's it's heavy.
I mean, when you add in everything with the boots
and the doublet itself is quite heavy, and then if
(37:14):
I want to bring any of the accouterment, all the jewelry,
the sword, good heavens. Uh, it definitely gets to to
weigh you down pretty quickly. I mean that, even trying
to use the lightest materials I had, you're still wearing
multiple layers. So it's a it's a commitment, but I'm
sure it'd be a big hit around the office. Oh,
I have no doubt about that. All right, Well, thank
(37:37):
you so much for talking to us, Jonathan and Lord
Admiral as well. Um, it was fun. We had a
great time at the festival. We had a great time
seeing you in your other element. It's uh, it's always
interesting to see people I know in my quote unquote
real life when they come in, especially if they don't
realize that we do try and follow very closely the
(38:00):
motto of do not break character, and so you try
and find interesting ways to address people. You know that
gives them the idea of, you know what, you're trying
to to actually communicate, but not break away from your
character role like calling us ladies. Yes, no one ever
does that. Well, you know, I know you well enough
(38:20):
where the Admiral obviously you're visiting Royalty. Well, thank you
again Jonathan for talking to us, and um, we had
a lot of fun. We have any kind of fun
articles on the Renaissance, I don't think we do, Jonathan.
Maybe you'll have to create one we have. We have
one on torture devices. I think we might have one
on Henry the Eighth. Yeah, we do. Actually I think
(38:42):
I edited it. I should have thought of that. We
have one on top ten heads that rolled during the
reign of Henry the Eight. Luckily the admirals was not one.
Jonathan will use this pictures animated picture of my head
bouncing across the screen, so you'll have to check that out. Also,
email us let us know about Renaissance festivals that you
(39:05):
visited in your town. I know they're all over the
country and probably we need to compare notes. Yeah, different
styles to each of them, i'd imagine, So email us.
We're at History Podcast at Discovery dot com. We're also
on Twitter at Misston History, and we're on Facebook. And
if you want to find that Henry the Eighth article
but Sarah was talking about, which she edited, apparently, you
can look it up by visiting our homepage at www
(39:28):
dot how Stuff Works dot com. For more on this
and thousands of other topics. Is It How stuff Works
dot com
Welcome to Stuff you missed in history class from how
Stuff Works dot com. Hello and welcome to the podcast.
I'm Deblina Choko reboarding and I'm fired douty and Lords
and ladies, thou art most fortunate to Lynnine is too.
I Lord Admiral, Duke of Suffolk, Vicount lyle Edmund Vandory
(00:25):
the third, at thy service. Thank you Admiral for joining
us today. We met the Admiral recently at the Georgia
Renaissance Festival, where Sarah and I went to kind of
check out the Renaissance scene and see what it's all about,
immerse ourselves and Renaissance culture, and so, Admiral, we were
wondering if you could tell us a little bit about
what you do there. Oh, certainly, certainly well, of course,
(00:47):
as Lord Admiral, I'm in charge of his Majesty's navy.
His Majesty, of course, being Henry the eighth King of England,
King of France, Defender of the Faith, Lord of Ireland.
You might have seen him. He's all all the coins.
Nice fellow, lovely fellow. He's also got a lovely wife
and Berlench she's got a good head on her shoulders
wonderful lady, and tis my duty to oversee his navy now,
of course, being King in the eighth his navy consists
(01:09):
of eight boats and a fish, so it's not terribly taxing.
Mary Rose too, we've discussed that one before, and Faith
named after his sister. Interesting. So what's it like to
work for the king? For King Henry the A, it's
mostly rewarding. His king is a very very rewarding king,
as long as you do not get upon his bad side.
(01:32):
You see, one day I sailed off from England, returned,
discovered that the entire religion at change while I was gone,
made a mistake of making a Catholic joke, and next
thing I knew, I was threatened to be about eight
inches shorter than I had started out. But everything turned
out well. So he's not very tolerant of He has
a threshold for certain subjects that you do not wish
(01:54):
to go. He might be listening right now, so you
might not want to say anything too critical of the king. Well,
we did get some different takes on the king also,
which we might share a little later on. Sarah and
I got to talk to a lot of different characters.
Well at the Renaissance Festival. We also checked out some
Renaissance music, some jousting, what else, Sarah, Well, we were
(02:15):
invited there by the Tortuga Twins, so we got to
see some comedy shows and um, yeah, just blacksmithing, all
sorts of things, and just a lot of people having
a very good time on a summer's day outside of Atlanta,
walking around in authentic costumes themselves or just like us,
plain clothes and having a good time. And we're the
(02:37):
ones wearing the normal clues. The one's wearing the outlandish costumes,
often having thy ankles upon for displaying Heaven's sake, and
even strange black boxes that we were carrying around true
a tape recorder with us. We stand corrected. We were
indeed the unusual one. So we're not done with the
Admiral yet. We're going to come back to him in
(02:59):
a little bit. But we did, as we mentioned, talked
to a lot of other characters at the Renaissance Festival
kind of um in our quest to find King Henry
the Eighth and Anne Boleyn. It was our quest an
unsuccessful one, unfortunately, although we did see them, we just
didn't talk to them. Yeah, we saw them from Afar,
but we really wanted to get the chance to talk
to them because we heard such great things about them,
(03:21):
such interesting things, I should say, but I have to say, Sarah,
I thought that one of the most difficult parts about
the Renaissance of us was just getting to everything that
we wanted to go to. Yeah, well, and that was
partly because we had a mission and we had certain
things we wanted to see. I think most of the
people there were just sort of taking it easy, muntion
on a turkey leg and just stopping wherever they were interested,
(03:44):
not running around with a microphone like crazy women. We
were the only people with that. But one of the
people that we did run into, luckily, was the Friar.
We didn't intend to and we just happened upon him
at the tavern, and he was definitely one of the
most colorful folks that we ended up talking to, and
he gave us some insight on a lot of things,
including religion, of course, which the Admiral touched on a
(04:07):
little bit, and our favorite topic, the King and Queen.
Here's what he had to say, What was your man,
Finnigan of the body of Bodacious bothers in brown Bohemian
Brethren that you may call me Friar. So how do
you know the King and Queen? Well, I have heard
rumor that King Henry is actually thinking of starting his
own church. I find that very Protestant of him, very
(04:31):
Protestant of him. Yes, he doesn't like the Pope very
much either. So I was brought here to Newcastle so
that I could actually help the king understand that what
he feels is really true. There's no reason to give
money to the Holy Roman Empire when you're trying to
build up your own church. I just wish you'd keep
his hands off the abbey. Um, so we have no
gold in the abbey. We have no gold in the abbey?
(04:52):
Can we bury it out? Don't tell the king. It's
quite well. Actually, the burials are going quite well. Yes,
it looks just like a big, huge cemetery out there.
We have grave stones with things like you know, Goldie
and Silvery and Coper read their funny names. But it
works on the headstones that way, we don't have to
worry about making change. And how's the whole church starting things?
(05:15):
So far? So far, things are going pretty well. We
do have quite a few people who insisted the Catholic
Church is the only way to go understandable. Very few
people here to read. To be honest with you, they
don't want to read the Bible. They don't want to
have to interpret Deuteronomy. I mean, really, who does. But
you can do that for them? I can, I can't.
I just don't know if they trust my opinion. I
would you trust my opinion and Deuteronomy? I don't know.
(05:37):
I find you pretty I can imagine you getting some
puns in there. I could, I'm very well could, and
I'm afraid that they would. They would do that. I
tend to tell people to read the New Jestment. Stick
with that. It's a little bit easier to understand. So
one of the things the Admiral had also recommended we
do was check out some genuine Renaissance music. And we
really wanted to do that to you, not just because
(05:59):
we're bothly into music, but because music was such a
huge part of life during the Renaissance period. I mean,
you can imagine Henry the eighth with his court musician,
enjoying conversation and lovely tunes. But whether you were out
and about or at church, or of course hanging out
at the king's court during the years generally spanning from
(06:20):
fourteen hundred to sixteen hundred in Europe, you were bound
to hear some kind of music. Yeah, According to an
article by Rebecca Arkenberg of the Metropolitan Museum of Arts
Department of Education. Though most of the important music of
the early Renaissance was composed for use by the Catholic Church,
and this was evidence in polyphonic masses and motets that
(06:40):
incorporated several melodies at the same time, but by the
end of the sixteenth century, composers incomes came from several sources.
They were paid by the Catholic Church again, but also
Protestant churches and courts, wealthy amateurs and music printers to
create music. So you might sponsor a piece of music, yes, exactly.
Arkeenberg also says that the early fifteenth century was dominated
(07:04):
by English and Northern European composers, but over the next
century or so, Franco Flemish composers also came into the mix,
and ideas from Italy and Germany and France began to
kind of influence everything that was going on in that
scene as well. So more of what Arkeenberg calls in
quote international European style begins to emerge around this time,
(07:26):
kind of a hybrid of different countries musical traditions. Almost
by the beginning of the sixteenth century, though, the first
collection of printed music was published by a Venetian printer,
and the introduction of music printing allowed more people to
learn to read music. So just as you have the
printing presses, you know, spreading literacy, same thing with music
(07:47):
almost and before this time music had to be learned
by ear or from music that was copied out by hands,
so usually only religious institutions or really rich people were
able to do that. Again, kind of like books. I mean,
if months are having to uh copy everything out, not
too many people are going to own books. That's very true.
That century also saw the use of several musical instruments,
(08:10):
including the viola da gamba, which was a newer one,
the lute, to the recorder, the harpsichord, and the organ
and more. Instrumental music also came on the scene and
was developed during these years. Before this time, instruments were
typically for vocal accompaniments, so that was something a little
bit different. To get an idea of how Renaissance festival
(08:32):
performers might recreate the music of this period. We talked
to Renaissance festival performer Luca Callo about the music that
he plays, which is Renaissance and inspired, and how he
pulls that off. I mean, he didn't learn these songs
by ear, so we wanted to learn, you know, first
of all, where he finds the music, how he chooses
it and um, then how he makes it come to life.
(08:52):
And here's what he told us. All of the pieces,
except for one or two, are actually historical songs um
period pieces that I have learned, mostly off of other
performers that I admire and look up to. So I
learned a lot of pieces arely like most musicians of
(09:13):
the period would have been done, and then try to
do them in my own way and come into like,
oh yes, all of them except to our period pieces awesome.
So how did you learn these? Um? A lot of
other winfare performers and people that play in the st
a um his orb are networks. And have you had
to do any particularly historical research to play him in
(09:34):
the style of the period, like have you a little bit? Um?
My guitar is strong and tuned like a loot. So
I have been learning off the loot tab and so
I can play a loop style piece and um, just
a lot of listening to period pieces, whether it be
off of sheet music that has replications of pieces are
off of potic performers that do period stale music said,
(09:57):
God do so do awesome? Getting off so this who Britain?
The moment segment? Dost not this seconds? So that was
(10:32):
great to talk to Luca Carlo and learn a little
bit more about the music we were likely to hear
in the Renaissance. But the other thing we couldn't leave
the festival without doing was check out jousting. And actually,
I think besides meeting the King and Queen, jousting was
probably the experience that was recommended to us most and
the thing that we were just most determined to do.
(10:53):
And it definitely seems like the main attraction that Renaissance
fust and they have um several jousting tournaments throughout the day,
so I imagine people come and check in periodically because
the storyline progresses throughout the day too. It's not like
you're seeing the same tournament three times, right, Most people
at least have an idea of what jousting is and
(11:13):
have maybe seen an example of it in a movie
or something. It generally conjures up images of two nights
charging towards each other with a lance, each aiming for
the other shield, trying to knock it, or trying to
knock his opponent off the horse. I mean, we've all
kind of seen some iteration of this. Jousting appears to
have started out in the Middle Ages, though actually around
(11:34):
the beginning of the twelfth century, and in its earliest form,
which I didn't know this before, it wasn't a one
on one thing. According to Nigel stol and History today,
early jousting tournaments were chaotic competitions between groups of knights
that teams would sometimes consist of hundreds of knights who
were using these tournaments as a way to kind of
(11:54):
bond or unite themselves as fighters. So as you might
have imagined, it has its roots in war training, and
that does make sense if you think that's more likely
to be the condition of the battlefield. It's not going
to just be the two nights out there all by themselves.
Very true, but Saul points out that even at those
early jeels, there was an element of entertainment there because
there were audiences for them, and there's even evidence that
(12:16):
spectators stands were built as early as the eleven seventies. Yeah,
but by the time the Renais thoughts rolled around, jelasting
had really developed into something of a true spectator sport,
almost like how we would think of a spectator sport today,
valued mainly for the entertainment that it provided. And Saul
talked also a little bit about nights as celebrities, and
(12:38):
there was an element of showmanship to what they did.
I've actually read before that they're they're heralds, you know.
Their flags that they were were something that we're a
little bit akin to how you would recognize a face today.
You might not recognize the night's face because he wears armor,
he's far away from you, you probably don't have good vision,
but you could recognize his his standard, his flag. Well,
(13:00):
there just really wasn't you know, There wasn't the media
culture that there is now. You couldn't just look in
US Weekly and see a picture of your favorite nights.
So that was the way that people would recognize their
favorite Yeah, and I mean a lot of the stories
of knights and their jous were um proliferated through stories
that were told about them or stories that were written
about them, yes, or songs. So we had a little
(13:22):
bit of a taste of the celebrity culture at the
Renaissance Fest. To Sarah mentioned earlier, at the jous that
we witnessed, the crowd was enormous. I mean, I think
that we thought at the time that pretty much everyone
at the festival had sort of packed into the middle
to see the jous during that thirty to forty minutes
or however long it took, and the crowd actually picked sides.
(13:43):
About half the crowd would root for a certain night
while the rest bowed him. And there was definitely showmanship
as you mentioned, preening even on the part of the Knights,
and display of skill and even a little bit of
cheaty act from our guy. Why about conshimmery Now this
(14:03):
b just just ruis and chase me, And I asked,
as you run to the ready, it's because on the
day on the Redding on fast, let this chop chop.
I'm trying to for on the down, I said, and
(14:32):
you run to read I pad chop Okay, I'm trying
for on the jail, I said, at your rules ready,
(14:54):
I'm ana gas prepared chop I ready, I'm a chop
(15:21):
fine fine striped, running bout my day. I'm a day
on your shoes. Oh yeah, funning without his magazine say stop.
(15:54):
So we were on Amadeo's side and um, yeah, there
was a little bit of of cheating going um and
yeah that they challenge each other to that match to
the death Jealous to the death, which we heard later
from the Admiral is quite the show. Unfortunately we didn't
get to see that. But there's even fire breathing. So
(16:16):
these guys, in addition to being um historical performers, are
really talented technical performers too. Yeah, that's so true. Just
the fact that they can stay on a horse and
use that lance and do everything. I mean, I was
pretty important. I saw several times a day. Yeah, and
keep on going. But another personal highlight for us of
this festival was getting to meet a couple of listeners
(16:37):
that's always a highlight for us whenever we're out and about,
and it was Ron and Ricky and they were actually
the ones who invited us to the festival in the
first place. They perform at the festival's part of an
act called the Tortuga Twins, and we got to see
them put on a funny parody of Robin Hood, incorporating
members of the audience, luckily not us. I hate that.
(16:57):
I was just sitting there the entire time. We don't
pick me, Dope, we don't pick me. I don't want
to go to change made Marian no, thank you. Afterward,
they talked to us a little bit about what it's
like to work at the festival, whether Robin Hood was
a real guy, and of course our favorite topic, the
King and Queen. Can you guys introduce yourselves for us?
(17:22):
Welcome that we are here with the very some stuff
you mis say history Glass, So tell us a little
bit about what you've worked about the Renaissance. Well, what
we've learned about the Renaissance is that really people haven't
been paying attention. Were just student days of some of
the Renaissance vesivals all over the country, and their first
(17:42):
question I always like to ask us, all right, children, students,
you're here for what does renaissance mean? So maybe maybe
if we're lucky, teach, But it's it's great. I learned
that boy, compared to Da Vinci, I'm not doing anything
with my life. Uh, we've learned that there is a
historical precedential what we do, but it's not an honorable one. Um,
(18:04):
we learned that we're very happy to be able to
reenact into songs but living this time now. Yes, I'm
a big fan of antibiotics and indoor plumbing. So we
just got the Robin Hood Show. Do y'all have any
ideas about who might be the real Robin Hood? I
know they're a lot of depend Oh wow, Yeah, I
personally believe that he was completely in this. I personally
believe that he's uh and I know they talked about
(18:25):
Locksley in a couple of the ones on that. I
personally believe that he's just I'm not that much of
many characters. It's it's it's like difficult stories, you know,
you start recreating one all of a sudden you realize
that the same thing as a scenarian miss and he
just gets awesomely complicated there, Yeah what he said? Yeah, So,
who are your favorite personalities here? Do you know? The
King and Queen? The King and Queen are awesome here. Um,
(18:46):
oh gosh, there's a pirate. There's a pirate here that
just charming. Ladies, be careful around that part. He's so charming.
In fact, you try to hire him for the troop
for Francis Drake friends. Okay, so, now that we've gotten
(19:06):
a chance to talk about some of the fun things
we thought our day at the Renaissance Festival, we do
still have the Lord Admiral in the room and we
want to ask him some questions. Except, um, some of
you might have already guessed this by now if your
podcast listeners, the Lord Admiral is really our own Jonathan
Stricklin of Tech Stuff. Hey, there, So Jonathan, tell us
(19:29):
a little bit about how you got involved with the
Renaissance Festival, because you've been doing it for a long time. Sure,
all right. So back in I was in a show
that was going to be performed at a science fiction convention,
and one of the other actors in that show was
a performer with the Renaissance Festival, and she had revealed
(19:50):
that there was going to be some auditions coming up.
And back then in ninety nine, the festival had two seasons.
They did a fall season in a spring season, and
so I decided along with my wife, to audition for
this and we went in and we auditioned. I happen
to have the best audition of my entire life for
the Renaissance Festival, which is both a funny story and
(20:11):
a sad one. And as a result, I was hired
and I was given the opportunity to play the Lord
Mayor of the Festival, and I did that for several seasons.
I took a leave of absence for a while, and
then I came back on as a favor to uh
the the entertainment director, who was having some some turnover
problems with some of the cast on a particular season.
(20:34):
And the thing was they had already hired a new
person to play the Lord Mayor, and I had not
gone through the entire rehearsal process to build a new character.
So rather than try and design something haphazardly, I essentially
took the same character, gave him the new title of
Lord Admiral, modeled him a little bit after a couple
of different historical figures, and came back on and worked
(20:58):
there for well well up through two thousand twelve. So
when we went to the festival, Jonathan was actually the
very first person we saw right over the entrance. He
hailed us as Lady Sarah and Lady Dablina, and um
I was immediately struck by your costume because I do
love costumes, and also it was such it was such
a shock. You were clearly not Jonathan, you were the
(21:19):
Lord Admiral. You look very different from you from how
you do day to day, although we do notice you
grow out your your goatee every year. So what kind
of how did you how did you pick out your costume,
how did you put it together, and what kind of
historical research went into it. That's an excellent question. And
this is different for every single person at the festival.
Most of us we provide our own costumes. There are
(21:42):
very few costumes of the festival itself owns that that
characters use. But in my case, what I did was
I wanted to look at some typical doublets from earlier
than the festival year. The festival year is I was
looking at a round fifteen twenty, so I was looking
(22:02):
at things that would be outdated by the time it
got around. Thinking that the Lord Admiral is someone who's
very wealthy but also kind of thrifty and miserly. He
doesn't doesn't want to spend more money updating his his
his entire wardrobe, and so I found a design of
a doublet from the fifteen twenties that was really intricate
(22:22):
and interesting to me. And I took that design to
a seamstress here in Atlanta, and I said, can we
make something similar but not identical to this, because I
don't want to lift someone else's design, but I want
something that kind of evokes this same feeling. And so
she and I worked together, and that piece is a
one of a kind piece specifically tailored to me and uh,
(22:43):
and it does have that fifty era feel to it,
because as you get closer to Henry's time, the doublets
start getting shorter, and you start having things like the
the the short hose and the pumpkin pants and things.
And I said, I do not want that. I do
not want to have to worry about a cod piece.
(23:04):
I want I want a nice loan doublet that goes
down to say, mid thigh. And uh. And because I
think that's sort of the character and so different people
went about it in different ways trying to come up
with their costumes and so uh. The costumes for the
King and Queen are incredibly elaborate, and they were both
designed by the actress who plays the Queen. She is
(23:26):
a very competent seamstress in her own right. And so
you get to that level of incredible detail and amazing
costume prowess, if you will, all the way down to
the peasants who are wearing very simple uh you know,
it might be a simple shirt or tunic, uh, some
simple hose and then some really ratty shoes and then
(23:49):
they roll around the dirt all day. How do you
guys maintain them too? I mean, I'm thinking at the
time when these people were wearing elaborate clothes like this,
it was a bit of a cold spell around the world.
But you know, this is Atlanta, this is the summer.
How do you how do you keep them going for
a few months? How much deodorant do you? Yeah, the
(24:10):
good actors go through quite a bit. Um. There are
a couple of things. One, we try and use as
many materials that will wake away sweat as much as possible,
so a lot of cottons. You know, you wanna try
and keep things as cool as possible considering the weather
that we get in Georgia. Another part is that we
(24:31):
maintain our own temperatures by drinking lots and lots of
ice water. So we have ice water stations hidden and
around the festival so that we can go and quickly
fill up our mugs. We everyone is required to have
two things. You're required to have a hat and you're
required to have a mug. And the mug is so
that you know, you're supposed to keep it at least
(24:51):
half full of ice water all day long, so if
you start getting low, you're supposed to go back and
refill as soon as you possibly can. That helps a lot. Also,
just pacing your else, staying in the shade, just general
rules that you learn as a performer. Also, you learn
very quickly you don't want to go all out on
from opening gate through lunch because you'll be completely burned
(25:12):
out and you have nothing left for the second half
of the day because we're open from ten thirty in
the morning until about six thirty at night and you're
on that entire time. So temperature aside, what is it
like to be part of that world for that many
hours a day, for so many weekends out of the year.
On a good day, it's amazing. So on a good
day where there are a lot of people and they're playful, uh,
(25:35):
you get re energized by the fact that people will
play with you. Especially kids, they have no sense of
self consciousness. They buy into it being silly. They understand
it silly, but they love being silly, and the actors
love being silly too, So it really helps when you
run into adults who kind of have that that they've
built those barriers up where being silly feels like it's
(25:57):
not right. That gets a little more challenging. On slow
days or days where the weather is a little a
little rough, that can be the biggest challenge. It's not
the fact that you're out there in those conditions, it's
the fact that the audience is in those conditions and
they are less prone to playing a little grumpy yeah,
and so it means you have to work extra hard
(26:17):
to connect with your audience, and that is what is exhausting.
So in addition to costumes, um, what sort of historical
research goes into building your character. That's an excellent question too,
And again this depends very much upon the sort of
character you play. Let me go through the character building
(26:37):
process really quickly. It's pretty simple. So you audition, and
once you audition, the production staff gets an idea of
where you might fit within the hierarchy of the festival.
Whether you might, you know, you tend to skew as
more of a noble character or more of a peasant character,
perhaps one of the middle class. Uh. The idea being
(26:59):
that where would you be the most entertaining? So once
we figure out where you're in the most entertaining, then
we start to figure out what role should you fill
in the festival. And all of our characters are very,
very focused on specific roles, and you'll notice it immediately.
For example, the fashion consultant to the Queen is obsessed
with the color pink, and she ties pink bows on
(27:21):
anyone who stands still long enough for her to do so.
And you know, that's a that's a fun character trait.
So in that sense, you're really concentrating on the entertainment
factor first, and historical accuracy maybe fifth or six, it's
not even second. Really. Once you get to that, though,
you then have to start thinking, all right, well, we've
settled the year as fifty five, how would this silly character,
(27:45):
how would this character inhabit that world? Now, in my case,
I'm playing the part of a lord admiral. Now there's
an actual historical analog to that which I obviously could
not be because the Lord Admiral at the time of
five is Henry the hates illegitimate son who was a
teenager at the time and only lived to be about
(28:05):
fifteen or sixteen years old before he died, So I
can't pass for a teenage kid anymore. I'm in my
thirties and that that ship sailed a long time ago,
so there are certain things I have to sacrifice. And
it's always interesting when I run into people who have
enough historical background to ask me tough questions about the
(28:27):
actual roles that I play. So I've had people ask
me about Lord Admiral questions where they clearly knew their
their historical stuff, and I get to make up answers
or they know because I gave my character the titles
of Duke of Suffolk and the count Lyle. That's Charles Brandon,
who married one of Henry's sisters, Clandestinary. I had someone
(28:48):
asked me about that, so could you comment upon Henry's sisters?
I thought, oh, you're trying to trap me. The King's
sitting right next to me, so I very gently got
out of that before it became too big of a bit.
Because the King, the guy who plays the King is
sharp and he knows his stuff too, and he would
(29:10):
have no hesitation in bringing me in front of everybody
and punishing Oh dear, Yeah, they cut my beard off
in front of everybody and vanished from from the kingdom. Yeah,
I noticed that the beads are gone. Um. It's funny though.
You know, we were talking about historical and accuracies with
you earlier too, and I wondered if you would just
(29:32):
go over some of those and then go over yeah.
I mean, how often do do people call things out too?
I mean that's you're talking about people who clearly know
their history. But do people ever come up to you
with just random things about the festival that they consider inaccurate?
Teenagers are really good about that, teenagers or just just
(29:53):
they just like to They just like to try and
push your buttons, so they'll point out, for first of all,
all the food to the festival. I mean you're talking
about food that is not period at all, and you
would period or potatoes which have made their way back
to England yet or tea tea is not that's you know,
people think about it. The Queen loves her tea despite
(30:15):
the fact that it's a complete anachronism, or the fact
that will quote Shakespeare who was not yet really a
thing in not being born. Uh, there are a lot
of little inaccuracies. And again the focus of the festival
is entertainment, not education or historical accuracy. That's why we
we have this love hate relationship with the Society of
(30:37):
Creative Anachronism, which is a nonprofit organization that's all dedicated
about educating about the Middle Ages up to the Renaissance,
and including some stuff in the Renaissance as well. And
they kind of look down their nose at us and
the some some of them anyway, and the response is
essentially this is really it's it's entertainment first, and we
do not pretend otherwise. It is a Renaissance themed entertainment venue.
(31:02):
And uh. And so the food definitely not period. A
lot of the costumes aren't as well. I went early
with mine, so I felt like I was all right,
although I did wear a cavalier hat, which was well
outside the period of Henry the Eighth. But a lot
of the queen's dresses and her ladies in waiting they
had bum rolls which were not really used in in
(31:25):
female costume. Female clothing until almost a hundred years after
when the festival is set. But it's an idea of
creating this picture that people think of when they think Renaissance,
the Renaissance and sort of I guess, almost combining the
whole long period of the Renaissance until one day and
you'll see you'll see who would have who had been
(31:48):
dead almost almost two decades by then. Yeah, he's very
lively for a corpse um. Uh, yeah, I know, he's
he's great. The actor who plays him as great. And
and you'd also see things like you'd see people wearing
costume from different parts of the world and in different eras,
so it's not just the Renaissance of England that is represented.
(32:09):
You'll see clothing that is more Italian and a lot
of belly dance coin skirt yeah, very popular. Okay. So
that being said, there is an educational aspect to the
festival too though, right. Yeah. We have a student Day
every year, uh, and this is a day when when
schools can send bus loads of students to the festival
(32:29):
and we have a series of shows that are very
much educational where we talk about historical events. There's one
that's about the wives of Henry the eighth, and they
give a quick rundown of all the different wives their fates.
Why why did Henry the eighth have that many wives?
What happened each one? Uh? And uh. There's also a
(32:50):
little fun in that, and of cleaves is traditionally played
by a man um, but you know there there's that.
There's also a sentation that's all about superstitions during the Renaissance.
There's one on the manners and mannerisms of people during
the Renaissance, talking about the various customs and why they
(33:11):
are the way they are and why some of the
things we do today are related to what went on
in the Renaissance. So there is an educational part of
the Renaissance Festival, But on a typical Renaissance festival day, uh,
it's not as big a role. Although we have people
come in and ask us questions. The King and Queen
have their own little throne room area and they're there
(33:33):
throughout the day at different parts of the day, and
we often have people come in and ask us questions then,
and we're more than happy to answer them to the
best of our ability. And that's one thing again that
the King and Queen are very good at they remember
who remembers more about different sections? Oh Lord, Admiral, why
do you not answer that question? It would be most
happy to address this issue nicely. You don't refuse the
(33:57):
king ever, right never. You never know. You make it
up if you don't know it. If you make it
up and you make it silly enough, people will buy it. Right. Well,
we were talking to the Tortuga twins actually a little bit,
and they were telling us some of the things that
kids are surprised to learn on those student days. Where
is there anything that you think is kind of shocking
that people don't know when they come in? Um? Yeah, yeah,
(34:21):
there's a good example where one of the kids piped up,
uh and was a sort of a no at all
type kid, which I identify with immediately. That's my personality
right there. But this no, one would never say that. No,
but it's fine. I'm a self identifying no at all
but this but and I've also been in this position.
(34:41):
This was a no at all who had something incredibly wrong,
and so he was looking at Henry the Eighth and
had identified this is King Henry the Eighth and pipes
up with where's Marie Antoinette? Yes, and whereupon I got
actually watched Henry the Eighth as an actor named John
on I watched John's face turn about eight Shades of Red,
(35:03):
where he finally was able to formulate a response that
had no inappropriate language in it and explain that that's
not the right time period right, not the right time period,
not the right country, and that the young person should
perhaps put down the iPad and pick up a book.
That was That was the end of his little tirade,
(35:25):
as I recall, Well, but we don't want to say that,
because maybe the kids should listen to the history podcast. Well,
that would also help Henry the Eighth may listen to this.
John I think has not picked up on this particular
podcast yet. So what are you going to do now
that you're retiring from the Renaissance Festival? How are you
gonna keep your Renaissance fixed going? I mean, I'd imagine
(35:47):
after all these years you've developed even healthier interest than
a typical English major would have in the Renaissance. Sure, well,
one is that it looks like I'm still going to
have a hand and at least in writing some of
the the scenario for the Renaissance Festival. Now the Georgia Festival.
We have sort of an over a story that progresses
(36:09):
throughout the day, and that story is something that you
can follow if you want to, and it's it's not
necessary for you to enjoy the festival. If you don't
encounter the story, that's fine, but if you want to,
you can follow along. I will still have a hand
in that, and I'll probably show up at least once
or twice to do a guest performance. And also, I mean,
(36:30):
I'm still I'm still an actor, so occasionally I'm going
to go out and audition for shows that may have
something to do with the Renaissance. I do love Shakespeare,
so I'll probably audition for more Shakespeare shows. Beyond that,
I think I will go as a patron and enjoy
my time there as in plain clothes and being able
to whenever I want. Maybe you'll break out the admiral
(36:52):
costume at one of our Halloween days in the office,
or's something maybe I think maybe I think I wore
at once for did I. I guess I never did
bring it all into the office because it's it's heavy.
I mean, when you add in everything with the boots
and the doublet itself is quite heavy, and then if
(37:14):
I want to bring any of the accouterment, all the jewelry,
the sword, good heavens. Uh, it definitely gets to to
weigh you down pretty quickly. I mean that, even trying
to use the lightest materials I had, you're still wearing
multiple layers. So it's a it's a commitment, but I'm
sure it'd be a big hit around the office. Oh,
I have no doubt about that. All right, Well, thank
(37:37):
you so much for talking to us, Jonathan and Lord
Admiral as well. Um, it was fun. We had a
great time at the festival. We had a great time
seeing you in your other element. It's uh, it's always
interesting to see people I know in my quote unquote
real life when they come in, especially if they don't
realize that we do try and follow very closely the
(38:00):
motto of do not break character, and so you try
and find interesting ways to address people. You know that
gives them the idea of, you know what, you're trying
to to actually communicate, but not break away from your
character role like calling us ladies. Yes, no one ever
does that. Well, you know, I know you well enough
(38:20):
where the Admiral obviously you're visiting Royalty. Well, thank you
again Jonathan for talking to us, and um, we had
a lot of fun. We have any kind of fun
articles on the Renaissance, I don't think we do, Jonathan.
Maybe you'll have to create one we have. We have
one on torture devices. I think we might have one
on Henry the Eighth. Yeah, we do. Actually I think
(38:42):
I edited it. I should have thought of that. We
have one on top ten heads that rolled during the
reign of Henry the Eight. Luckily the admirals was not one.
Jonathan will use this pictures animated picture of my head
bouncing across the screen, so you'll have to check that out. Also,
email us let us know about Renaissance festivals that you
(39:05):
visited in your town. I know they're all over the
country and probably we need to compare notes. Yeah, different
styles to each of them, i'd imagine, So email us.
We're at History Podcast at Discovery dot com. We're also
on Twitter at Misston History, and we're on Facebook. And
if you want to find that Henry the Eighth article
but Sarah was talking about, which she edited, apparently, you
can look it up by visiting our homepage at www
(39:28):
dot how Stuff Works dot com. For more on this
and thousands of other topics. Is It How stuff Works
dot com
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