March 31, 2018 • 36 mins
Today we're revisiting a talk with fashion historian April Calahan about the surprising ways that women of France protested German occupation during WWII.
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hey, Saturday listeners. Today we are visiting an interview episode.
Fashion historian April Callahan appeared on our show as a guest. Now,
April and fellow fashion historian Cassidy Zachary have a podcast
of their own that is part of the House Stuff
Works family, which is called Dressed. So listen to April's
interview and then check out Dressed the History of fashion
(00:24):
at Dressed podcast dot com. Welcome to stuff you missed
in history class from how Stuff Works dot com. Hello
and welcome to the podcast. I'm Holly Fry and I'm
Traytvie Wilson and uh Tracy. As you and our listeners
(00:47):
will recall. Back in January, we have fashion historian and
author April Callaghan of the Fashion Institute of Technology on
to talk about the stenciling technique of poshoir and her
amazing book on fashion plates that covers a hundred and
fifty years of style as it developed. And not long
after that interview, as April and I were emailing back
and forth, she mentioned a lecture that she gave a
(01:09):
few years ago about World War two fashion in France,
and I was immediately intrigued, and so she had sent
me some of the info about it, and I asked
her to please, please please come back and talk about that.
So that is what we were talking about today. Yeah.
I remember when that conversation happened and you were immediately
so excited. So Sydy say, yes, this cool thing, I
(01:30):
want to talk about it. H Yeah. Well, in addition
to it being something that is is one of your
personal interests, the subject itself is incredibly interesting and not
something I ever had thought out of before. Right, We've
talked on the show when fashion has been dictated by
world events because of things like there was a shortage
of fabric, so everybody wore things that required less fabric.
(01:53):
But this is a whole other way, more involved, uh,
timeline and and factors that we're looking at today. Yeah.
It's one of those things that if you are maybe
a listener who is not into fashion stuff, I encourage
you to give it a listen because it might surprise you.
We are going to talk about fashion, but it's really
about how fashion became a tool for the people of France. Yeah.
(02:18):
So what Holly and April talked about in this interview
is how fashion reacts the times of conflict and how
fashion became a form of political resistance in France specifically.
So if you think a fashion is something frevolous that
people shouldn't really spend their time talking about, these insights
that April shares about the place of style and the
greater marketplace and economy of a culture might really change
(02:39):
your mind on that. Yeah, So let's hop right into alright.
So today, listeners, we once again have one of my
favorite guests ever, April Callahan, back to talk about some
fashion history. You welcome back to the podcast, April O.
Thank you. I think I'm blessing right now. Thank keep
(03:00):
for having me. I'm always delighted to talk to you
because you always have cool information. And today we are
going to talk about, UH, fashion as a form of rebellion,
but not necessarily in the sense that people might think
of in terms of young people bending rules, but an
actual historical moment in time, which is France during the
(03:21):
German occupation in World War Two. UH. And April did
a lecture on this particular topic at Yale some years back,
and she was kind enough to share the notes on
it with me. So UH it seemed like just way
too rich and cooler topic to let go by without
doing a show on it. So first I have to
ask you what inspired you to research French fashion during
the German occupation? Yeah? Sure, so, UM, I think I
(03:44):
mentioned this last time I was on the show, But um,
the intersection of war and fashion has always been kind
of one of my special interests as a fashion historian. Um,
how does fashion react in times of crisis? To me,
this is a really fascinating question, and a lot of
really creative, interesting things happened to fashionable clothing and dress
(04:05):
during these periods of extreme conflict, when people are forced
to balance the basics subsistence that's required for their daily
lives with this innate human desire to outwardly define ourselves
to others as human beings. Closing, as of course, one
of the main ways that we practice defining ourselves to others. Um.
(04:26):
So a few years ago, I when I was invited
to speak at that symposium that you referenced at Yale, Um,
it was actually on street style. So I decided I
didn't really want to speak about contemporary street style because
I figured my fellow presenters were going to cover this
with a great prowess. Um. I wanted to do something
a little bit different, So I started digging back a
(04:48):
bit and I became entirely smitten with how these frenchwomen
were using fashion during the Nazi occupation as this really
active form of political resistance. And ever since then, um,
the sys something I've been into and I actively collect
both French and German fashion magazines from the time period um,
basically nineteen thirty nine to nineteen And to some it
(05:11):
may seem a little bit odd for the idea of
clothing and specifically style to be a really vital aspect
of a country's wartime experience, but this really really was
a massive concern in France when the German occupation began.
Can you talk about why that was the case? Yeah? Yeah,
I think that thinking about fashion and war together can
(05:32):
seem absolutely antithetical at first. And I'm gonna speak fairly
generally here when I say that many people view fashion
as a sort of frivolous, unnecessary luxury and they don't
give any do weight to its role in our economy.
But fashion is truly a cog in this wheel of capitalism.
(05:53):
For capitalism to work, the desire to consume has to
be sparked, and the fashion system the catalyst for igniting
consumers desires to replace still useful objects with new ones
that are perceived to be more in line with the
current mode, and this is a huge part of what
drives the marketplace. UM. But in terms of France, the
(06:16):
sun King himself, Louver the fourteenth recognized the significance of
fashion way way back in the seventeenth century and I'm
talking to sixteen hundreds here, and he started actively and
aggressively cultivating France's luxury industries as a way to strengthen
his nation's economy. And then what happened was, over the
ensuing century, France really established itself as this arbiter of
(06:40):
style for the whole rest of the world. So by
the time World War Two happened, by the nineteen forties,
there was an international casher associated with all things French
and especially French clothing. Fashion was therefore both a matter
of economic stability for the country but also a matter
of national pride. So it's not really that surprising that
(07:03):
it was a hot topic when the Germans sees control
of a large person of France UM. And also with
resources in nineteen and I mentioned resources, UM. These resources
were super important to the Germans to keep their war
machine functioning. It required all sorts of basic things like food, metal, fuel, Um.
(07:26):
It required wool and leather for clothing and silk for parachutes.
So um. Under the terms of the armistice, the Germans
retained the right to make demands of France's raw materials
and and this pertains. This is what happens a system
of ration NG starts to be implemented. Fuel was the
(07:47):
first thing to go scarce. Um. Three months into the occupation,
food started being rationed. Um. Food stuffs like meat, bread, milk, butter,
and eggs, really basic things. Sugar also, Um, those became
subject to rastion NG. But more important to what we're
talking about now. Um. Later that year, the Nazis instituted
(08:07):
restrictions governing the manufacturer and sale of clothing. And you
mentioned in your in your paper that they set up
this point system for allocating wardrobe vouchers. And I'm really
curious how exactly that worked and moreover, how it was
received by the French. And then, uh, you also talk
(08:28):
a little bit about a trend called system D and
I want you to talk about how that arose from
this whole voucher situation. Yeah, sure, So how the bachelor
system works was or worked UM was each French citizen
who held a food ration card. Because the food ration
system was implemented first UM. They were also issued coupons
(08:51):
which total thirty points and this was where their annual
clothing consumption. So were you to go into a store
of Bautique to buy something, you would have to present
your coupon and also pay for the pay for the
pay for the garment or accessory. UM. And this allotment,
this number how they assigned the points the value systems
(09:13):
to things. This is really at barely at subsistence level. UM.
So if you in a single year purchased one will skirt,
one short sleeved blouse and a pair of cotton stockings,
this is was essentially all you could buy for the year.
That was it UM. So you can imagine how this
was really demoralizing to the French. You know, fashion had
(09:35):
been part of their national identity for centuries. This is
this is something that they're very proud about and and
and for um. So what emerged in the wake of
this clothing restriction system is really super inspiring to me
at least. UM. A lot of French women decided that
(09:56):
they were not going to take this lying down. It
was really imp portant to them that they ripped them
retain their reputation for chic, and they started coming up
with all sorts of creative workarounds to these clothing restrictions.
The first tactic they employed became known as the stante
in French pronunciation or system D. You know, it wasn't
(10:19):
choice A, B or C. It was choice D. It
was like your fourth option, you know, the one that
you had very little choice but to accept. UM. And
what it was was a more extreme form of the
UM American campaign that got dubbed Make Do and Men
(10:40):
from the same time period, and both of these campaigns
encouraged the recycling, the reuse and repurposing of garments. So,
for instance, UM they would take old sweaters and unravel
them for the yard and then re nit them into
new garments. Or a man's old suit might be ripped
open at the seams to be used for the textiles
(11:01):
and re cut into a boy's suit or maybe a
woman's jacket. UM women would take lace or trimmings off
old garments that couldn't be repaired and then transfer them
onto new garments. But one of the funny and most
interesting examples of system Day that I've seen was detailed
in a French fashion magazine, UH, which provided the really
(11:24):
detailed instructions like practically step by step of how to
take dog hair groomed from long haired breeds like poodles,
and how to spin and card it and turn it
into knitting yarn. That's fantastic, it is, and I imagine
if you had rabbits you would be set with Angora.
(11:44):
And I'm also wondering what I had to say. I
love system Day in terms of just the d I
y angle to it is, so as you said, it's
very inspiring and it's sort of charming, even though it's
really a very I'm going to use the overword term
of fierce, but it it really is. It's such a
dig in, like just digging in your heels and going nope,
(12:04):
you cannot dictate what we wear. We're going to find
our own way. I love it, love it, love it. Absolutely.
There was like these fashions were defiance basically. Okay, so
(12:32):
let's now pick up my interview with April Callahan to
hear about how shoes in particular during this time actually
have echoes in contemporary fashion. I know you talk a
little bit about this in the research that you did,
but will you talk some about how rationing changed footwear
(12:53):
in France because I think that is fascinating. Yeah, yeah,
and it has an interesting twist and in connection to
contemporary fashion UM, which I'll speak about here in a second.
But shoes were a huge problem and occupied France UM.
In ninety one alone, the Nazis took for themselves five
million pairs of the country's overall production of eight million,
(13:17):
so more than half UM at this same time. Under
under the governance and rules that they instituted, the French
were only allowed to resole their shoes once a year,
and they were allowed to buy no more than one
new pair of shoes made from ration materials every four years.
So this is a huge problem. UM. Leather was one
(13:39):
of the main ration materials and seriously in short supply,
so cobblers started resoling their clients shoes with whatever materials
they could get their hands on, and some of these
were very bizarre UM, including old tires. They would waterproof
cardboard and use that and either braid or plate strips
(14:01):
of straw and use that to resole their clients shoes. UM.
But manufacturers at the time also recognize this problem, so
they started turning to these alternate materials that were unregulated
by German mandates and UM it's through this necessity that
one of the most iconic looks of the nineteen forties
(14:22):
was born. UM shoemaker started using wood, cork, and plastic,
all of which were unrashedun materials, and they started using
to create heavy platform and wedge shoes and the thickness
of these ensured the longevity of your purchase right because
the height would take longer to wear down. So any
(14:45):
of you out there who are fans of wood or
cork wedge shoes that are like super fashionable today, you
can you can think you can thank French ingenuity of
this period next time you you strap them on. That
is so funny to me because we think of that
as such, particularly in resort where cork cork shoes are
so popular, and it's all because of a time when
(15:06):
the idea of having resort time was really not in
the picture at all. So I love it. Uh. The
next thing I wanted to talk about was the rather
brazen move or plan on the part of Germany that
ended up thankfully getting derailed, which was that apparently there
was a plan to move the couture industry out of Paris,
(15:28):
which is terrifying. Uh, and how exactly did that get derailed?
Like how was that stopped? So? Indeed, yes, Um, plans
for the moving of the Paris couture industry to Germany
were well underway. Um. The Germans recognized the physical significance
of not only French couture but also their own domestic
(15:51):
fashion industries. Um. It's really curious and a point that
kind of underscores the hypocrisy of the Nazi Party. On
one hand, Um, they were on the domestic confront, they
were officially promoting this archetype of the wholesome German house
route and mother wearing traditional dress. But on the other hand,
in practice they were actively supporting German high fashion exports
(16:16):
for a monetary game. Um. And I feel like it's
an important point here to make that the general German
populace were also subject um to clothing rationing starting in
nine but by that point within Germany it was almost
a moot point because so much of the country's own
resources had already been drained UM for years prior to
(16:37):
nineteen nine, the German people had kind of been railroaded
into giving donating whatever they could spare to the war effort.
You know. There there there are instances of young brides
that donating their wedding gowns to the cause because they
thought that the silk might be able to be used
for parachutes. Um. But yes, um. During the occupation, the
Germans raided the offices of the governing body of paris
(16:59):
okucher industry and they summoned the president at the time,
who was a couturier, Lucian A Long. And it was
a little bit of a complicated process of the Germans
back and forth, back and forth, but Lalong was eventually
able to convince them that oat couture was too inextricably
tied to Paris that took forth it for a wholesale
(17:19):
deportment of the industry to Germany, that that would kill
its spirit, and and also that it was really kind
of an unfeasible proposition to export all of these tangential
industries that supplied the coutura. You know, you had the
tex bio manufacturers, you had ribbon and flower makers, you
have dyers, you have pleaders, bead makers, embroiners, milliners, you know.
(17:40):
To to move all of those peoples, with all those
people in industries was going to be a herculean effort essentially.
And your lecture was titled Sleeping Cobras. Will you explain
to us what a sleeping cobra was in the context
of fashion in France in the nineteen forties and how
was that style emblematic of France really kind of hanging
on to its national identity during this time of occupation. Sure, um, So,
(18:06):
I think the term sleeping cobra can be can apply
in a couple different ways. Um. I was kind of
using it in two different ways, and my reference there
um First it could be um as a metaphor for
these women right who were kind of silently protesting UM
with the fashions that they were wearing. But the phrase
itself um is something that's loosely based um on the
(18:29):
writings from one of the leading coutriers as the period,
Elsa Scaparelli. In one of her autobiographies, she wrote about
the hats that friendshipmen were wearing during and just after
the occupation, and a lot of people were legitimately shocked
when the first images of Paris appeared after the liberation
because the fashion seemed so strange, so bizarre. The silhouette
(18:55):
had really become extreme and exaggerated. It had these really
the wide, heavily paddaged holders, these tall, clunky shoes, and
the hemlines had risen, they become much shorter. Um. But
the hats, the hats, they were truly bizarre. Um. Scaparelli
called them an incredible horror. And she compared she compared
(19:18):
the giant turbans that these women were wearing. She compared
them two monstrous cobras that had eaten a huge meal
and crawled up to sleep. Um. And and ceasfil Beaten,
who was like great, um, you know, cultural touchstone of
the time, and bomb vivante Um. He said, they looked
suspiciously like domestic plumbing. Um, I know, I love it.
(19:41):
But the hats were really kind of One of the
main ways that French women were using fashion as a
form of political resistance during this period, and one of
the reasons for that is the materials. Um Many of
the materials used to make hats that were used in
millinery were unrestricted, so this became the sort of unexpected
medium through which women were able to wage a silent protest.
(20:05):
And Um, how this kind of happened was is that
in the nineteen thirties hats were a little more trim
a little more tidy. Um. But in the nineteen forties
they wharphed into these really sort of outlandish, oversized creations,
and turbans grew so large that some of them actually
required interior wooden architectures that then would be wrapped and
(20:30):
swathed with like yards and yards of fabrics. So the shapes,
the sizes, and the trimmings of these hats were exaggerated
to the point of being ridiculous. And this was intentional. Um.
Women were basically flaunting extravagance in the face of the enemy.
They had no choice right but to where these threadbare
(20:51):
dresses or things were kind of like mended and passed.
You know, they were making do They were wearing shoes
which may or may not barely be holding together. So
it was through these hats. Um, this was their way
to express themselves. And sometimes these hats functioned explicitly as
objects of a revolt. Um. One of my very favorite
hats of the time period, which is in a collection
(21:12):
in France, Um, it was it featured a really wide,
upturned brim, and the brim had been printed with hash
marks that resemble, um, the hash marks of a radio dial,
and above that it was printed Post Parisian and Postpriision
had been a really popular radio station before the occupation,
(21:33):
and when the Nazis seized control of the media, it's
silenced Postprision and replaced it with a different station, the
pro German you know, collaboratives station. Um. So some of
these hats that they were wearing were actually quite pointed
in the political statements that they were making. And speaking
(21:53):
additionally of women who were really driving some of this protest,
will you talk a little bit about the mitta nets
and how they were really kind of the arbiters of
style in some ways? Yeah, yeah, for sure. Um Mito
NEETs were women who worked in the fashion industry. Um.
Oftentimes they were young women, and they were really kind
of the hands or the worker bees of the fashion industry.
(22:18):
So they had all these technical skills, right, so they
took system day or System D to a whole new
level of sophistication. Um. They would so old scarves together
to create these wild patchwork textiles from which they would
create garments um. And they had all sorts of fun
with ribbons, because ribbons were unrationed, so they would sew
(22:39):
them together to make these really wide, whimsical skirts. Um.
But once again it was with the hats that they
were really sticking it to the Germans. Um. They made
enormous hats from loops and loops of ribbons and scraps
of cardboard and oil cloth. And sometimes they would build
like fully fashioned little vine yet and scenes into the hats.
(23:02):
You know, it might be like a reproduction of a
French village or a really important French chateau. Um. But
there was an article in Vogue about the Miternets right
after the liberation of Paris in n Um talking about
them and how many of their creations were intentionally made
to annoy the Germans. And and this is the point
(23:23):
that wasn't entirely lost on Nazi officials. Um. They actually
complained to Lucy and the long head of the stamperson
to Coal about it. And his response, which I think
he was probably loving every minute of what the Midnets
were doing, but his official response was I can't do
anything about this. These styles are not being issued by
(23:45):
fashion houses. And I think this really underscores. How a
lot of these styles of the period, um, this were
what you were saying, d I y fashion. These were
street styles created by the people. I love the idea
that just by virtue of walking down the street in
the garments that you have made and chosen to where
(24:05):
you are making a huge political statement. Uh. And in
talking about some of these sort of coded rebellious messages,
there is uh some stuff in your lecture notes about
coded messages on belts. You have to talk about these, Yeah,
because these are kind of great. Um. So women were
(24:29):
painting or on boardering belts. This is nothing new, um,
but they started doing it during the occupation with motifs
that frequently held hidden meanings. Um. You might see a
very pretty belt decorated with little derek delicate arabesques. Um,
but they're actually vs to symbolize victory. Um. Some of
(24:53):
the belts you see have musical notes on them, which
seemed pretty harmless and charming, but if you could read music,
you would know that score was actually taken from patriotic
French song. And one of my favorites of the period
was a belt that was entitled long Ago and it
was hand painted. UM and it was hand painted with
little images of favorite French dishes which had disappeared given
(25:17):
all the food shortages. That's so cool, um, I mean,
it's one of those things that I suspect many people
at the time, like most German officers, who are not thinking, Oh,
I bet they're coded messages in those ridiculous belts. So
it's such a wonderful, sort of sneaky way to still
like assert your your feelings on the matter of occupation. Yeah. So,
(25:52):
in some alternate universe, the fashion industry moved to Berlin
and probably died off, and I being interested in fashion
and clothing, I'm selfishly glad that it is not this universe.
Thank you, Lucien lit Long. There's also I'm really interested
in some of the stranger trends that grew out of
this time, like the turban so big that you had
(26:13):
to have a wooden infrastructure under it. Yeah. Yeah, it's
it's a lot to think about, uh, wearing on your head.
And I really love the secret messages that are that
were embedded in some of the fashions of the day,
and the way the midd nets were purposely making annoying
clothes just to anger the Germans. April is so good
(26:34):
at like doling out so many really inspiring and interesting tidbits,
and now I totally want to embed secret messages and
everything I make. So next April is going to share
details of fashion at the race track during the war.
But first we're gonna have another brief break for a
word from one of our sponsors. So this last segment
(26:59):
is going to give you a really wonderful easter egg
about the term clothes horse, as well as some pretty
mind blowing information about how salons, or one salon in particular,
was using some very unusual power to dry ladies hair.
You also talk a little bit about how race courses
(27:21):
actually became sort of de facto runways during occupations like
you expound on that a little bit, so Um, the
concept of the race track as runway isn't actually something
that's unique to the period of the occupation. Um. Attending
the races was an immensely popular pastime for decades priorum.
Along with this theater. It was kind of the place
(27:43):
to see and be seen. UM, so much so that
fashion designers would send models or actresses to the races
dressed in their latest collections as a form of advertisement,
and this was really an established practice by the nineteen forties,
so the association in between women clothes and horses was
(28:04):
so strong. This is actually where the term clothes horse
comes from. Um. The models were there to work showing
off the clothes, just like the horses were there to
work racing. Um. And during the teens. Um, during the
nineteen teens, you also in in fashion periodicals you sometimes
also see professional models flange referred to as jockeys for
(28:27):
much the same reason. Uh. There was some some other
really wonderful tidbits in your your notes, and one of
them that just delighted me and sort of blew me
away at the same time is this piece about cyclists,
like bicyclists being used to dry hair in the salon
(28:49):
of the hairdressers. Your well, you talk a little bit
about how that worked, right. So um, hand in hand
with all this other ration ng and shortages that are
that was happening at the time. You can imagine it's wartime, right,
So coal was also in shortest supply, and at certain
points electricity was being rationed, so you may have you know,
(29:10):
a few hours of electricity here or there. Um. But
the hairstyles that were really fashionable at the time, required
frequent visits to the hairdresser to maintain that sort of
quoft waved look, and usually that would be set under
a hair dryer. So with all of a sudden spotty electricity.
(29:30):
There was one particular hairdressers your vase UM. He he
installed a tandem bike in the basement of his salon
and he hooked it up to this intricate contraption whereby
he attached his hair dryers to stove pipes and those
two fans and then the fans were were powered by
teams of of two people riding the bike in the basement. UM.
(29:54):
And this is something that Lee Miller wrote about UM
at the time, and she also u took photos documenting
this UM and this was another reason that turbans were
popular at the time. UM. So if your quaff was
less than ideal, if you hadn't been able to visit
the hairdresser, you could cover it, or alternately, you could
use a turban to cover a wet set when you
(30:17):
were leaving the salt a. I just love the idea
of these poor people trapped in the basement bicycling so
people can have beautiful hair. UM. She she writes that
she writes that they would power produce enough power to
dry around like a hundred women's heads a day. That's impressive.
(30:39):
You talked a little bit about uh, wedge shoes still
being a thing today, but was there were there any
other long lasting echoes in fashion from this sort of
stylish rebellion that was going on in France in World
War Two? I mean, I don't know so much about
the stylish rebellion part, but the nineteen fies are. It's
always a touchstone for fashion designers, so you always will
(31:04):
see from time to time these references coming back to
those really heavily padded UM, wide shoulders UM and the
narrow nipped waste um. Readily I can think of. I
think me and you did a really great collection in
two thousand eleven that was kind of loosely based on
that solhouette. It was fantastic UM. But but yeah, really
(31:25):
it's it's where we are today with with the very
explicit connection between rationing and and fashion today would absolutely
be with the shoes, the platform of wedge shoes that
we were today. Uh. And I have to ask if
there were one style from this moment in time from
this sort of forced creativity that was going on that
(31:48):
you could bring back today. What would you choose? You know,
I don't know if it's so much about a specific style,
um that I would bring back, and more about embracing
a certain energy or mood um. And despite the fact
that these were obviously very very difficult times, I don't
I don't, you know, I want to um gloss over
(32:10):
that these these were horrific times for a lot of people.
But in these fashions you can still feel the certain
jode vivra. Right. They were very spirited, they're very optimistic, um,
and sometimes they were outright funny and laughable. So I
guess what I would choose to take away from that
(32:30):
is like really embracing this sense of playfulness and fashion.
You know, have fun with fashion, be bold, don't be
afraid to make a statement. These ladies were making statements
all over the place, and um, if you want to
make a different statement the next day, that's okay. You
have her mission making and making another different statement, you know,
the day after. You know, you kind of catch my drift.
(32:51):
I think that if you're having fun with fashion, there
aren't any mistakes, at least in my books. Oh, a man.
I'm with you. I'm still going to lobby though, for
the belts to come back, some belts embroidered with potatoes. Well,
maybe some designer will hear this and a little spark
will happen. We can only hope. I really love the
(33:13):
idea of music, you know, laid out on your your
belt or any other accessory. It's so sweet. Um Again,
I always feel so lucky when we get to talk
to you because you have so much cool information about
fashion and history. And last time you were on we
talked a lot about your book Fashion in the Art
of Poshoir and also your book fashion Plates, A hundred
(33:35):
and fifty Years of Style, which continue to be spectacular.
But there is a cool new development. Your fashion Plates
book is coming out in paperback this fall. Yes, it
is true, it is true. Um. It is actually already
available for pre order on Amazon. UM. So the previous
edition was a luxury edition for so for any of
you listeners who may have been detured by its hefty
(33:57):
price point. UM, there is now a much more attainable,
accessible version available on Amazon order and it will be
out in a few months. And if the cover is
the same one that's currently posted on Amazon. It's a
very cool cover, like you get some it is. I
actually just approved the back cover last week. Uh. And
(34:18):
I will once again sing the praises of that book.
I love it so much. It's just such a feast
for the eyes. And it's really the soul if you're
into design at all, whether you're into clothing or any
other kind of design, you see so much of like
how human taste is developing through the years, just by
looking at the clothing. So it's absolutely beautiful and I
can't recommend it enough. Uh, April, thank you so much
(34:41):
for coming and talking to us about World War two fashion.
How can people find you if they want to hear
more from you online? Of course? Um, So you can
follow f I T Special Collections on Instagram at at
f I T Special Collections, And you can also search
online for our blog where we cover really fun cool
(35:02):
things that we have, um and you can just search
f I T. Material Mode blog. The blog is called
material Mode. I'm actually going to post something fresh and
new right after we get off the phone here. So excellent, excellent,
and we will also put a link to that blog
in our show notes. April, again, thank you so much.
You're just a delight thank you treat. Like I said,
(35:30):
thank you so much for joining us for this Saturday classic.
Since this is out of the archive, if you heard
an email address or a Facebook U r L or
something similar during the course of the show, that may
be obsolete now, so here's our current contact information. We
are at History Podcast at how stuff works dot com,
and then we're at Missed in the History. All over
(35:51):
social media that is our name on Facebook, Twitter, Tumbler, Pinterest,
and Instagram. Thanks again for listening. For more enders and
thousands of other topics, visit how staff works dot com.
MHM
Hey, Saturday listeners. Today we are visiting an interview episode.
Fashion historian April Callahan appeared on our show as a guest. Now,
April and fellow fashion historian Cassidy Zachary have a podcast
of their own that is part of the House Stuff
Works family, which is called Dressed. So listen to April's
interview and then check out Dressed the History of fashion
(00:24):
at Dressed podcast dot com. Welcome to stuff you missed
in history class from how Stuff Works dot com. Hello
and welcome to the podcast. I'm Holly Fry and I'm
Traytvie Wilson and uh Tracy. As you and our listeners
(00:47):
will recall. Back in January, we have fashion historian and
author April Callaghan of the Fashion Institute of Technology on
to talk about the stenciling technique of poshoir and her
amazing book on fashion plates that covers a hundred and
fifty years of style as it developed. And not long
after that interview, as April and I were emailing back
and forth, she mentioned a lecture that she gave a
(01:09):
few years ago about World War two fashion in France,
and I was immediately intrigued, and so she had sent
me some of the info about it, and I asked
her to please, please please come back and talk about that.
So that is what we were talking about today. Yeah.
I remember when that conversation happened and you were immediately
so excited. So Sydy say, yes, this cool thing, I
(01:30):
want to talk about it. H Yeah. Well, in addition
to it being something that is is one of your
personal interests, the subject itself is incredibly interesting and not
something I ever had thought out of before. Right, We've
talked on the show when fashion has been dictated by
world events because of things like there was a shortage
of fabric, so everybody wore things that required less fabric.
(01:53):
But this is a whole other way, more involved, uh,
timeline and and factors that we're looking at today. Yeah.
It's one of those things that if you are maybe
a listener who is not into fashion stuff, I encourage
you to give it a listen because it might surprise you.
We are going to talk about fashion, but it's really
about how fashion became a tool for the people of France. Yeah.
(02:18):
So what Holly and April talked about in this interview
is how fashion reacts the times of conflict and how
fashion became a form of political resistance in France specifically.
So if you think a fashion is something frevolous that
people shouldn't really spend their time talking about, these insights
that April shares about the place of style and the
greater marketplace and economy of a culture might really change
(02:39):
your mind on that. Yeah, So let's hop right into alright.
So today, listeners, we once again have one of my
favorite guests ever, April Callahan, back to talk about some
fashion history. You welcome back to the podcast, April O.
Thank you. I think I'm blessing right now. Thank keep
(03:00):
for having me. I'm always delighted to talk to you
because you always have cool information. And today we are
going to talk about, UH, fashion as a form of rebellion,
but not necessarily in the sense that people might think
of in terms of young people bending rules, but an
actual historical moment in time, which is France during the
(03:21):
German occupation in World War Two. UH. And April did
a lecture on this particular topic at Yale some years back,
and she was kind enough to share the notes on
it with me. So UH it seemed like just way
too rich and cooler topic to let go by without
doing a show on it. So first I have to
ask you what inspired you to research French fashion during
the German occupation? Yeah? Sure, so, UM, I think I
(03:44):
mentioned this last time I was on the show, But um,
the intersection of war and fashion has always been kind
of one of my special interests as a fashion historian. Um,
how does fashion react in times of crisis? To me,
this is a really fascinating question, and a lot of
really creative, interesting things happened to fashionable clothing and dress
(04:05):
during these periods of extreme conflict, when people are forced
to balance the basics subsistence that's required for their daily
lives with this innate human desire to outwardly define ourselves
to others as human beings. Closing, as of course, one
of the main ways that we practice defining ourselves to others. Um.
(04:26):
So a few years ago, I when I was invited
to speak at that symposium that you referenced at Yale, Um,
it was actually on street style. So I decided I
didn't really want to speak about contemporary street style because
I figured my fellow presenters were going to cover this
with a great prowess. Um. I wanted to do something
a little bit different, So I started digging back a
(04:48):
bit and I became entirely smitten with how these frenchwomen
were using fashion during the Nazi occupation as this really
active form of political resistance. And ever since then, um,
the sys something I've been into and I actively collect
both French and German fashion magazines from the time period um,
basically nineteen thirty nine to nineteen And to some it
(05:11):
may seem a little bit odd for the idea of
clothing and specifically style to be a really vital aspect
of a country's wartime experience, but this really really was
a massive concern in France when the German occupation began.
Can you talk about why that was the case? Yeah? Yeah,
I think that thinking about fashion and war together can
(05:32):
seem absolutely antithetical at first. And I'm gonna speak fairly
generally here when I say that many people view fashion
as a sort of frivolous, unnecessary luxury and they don't
give any do weight to its role in our economy.
But fashion is truly a cog in this wheel of capitalism.
(05:53):
For capitalism to work, the desire to consume has to
be sparked, and the fashion system the catalyst for igniting
consumers desires to replace still useful objects with new ones
that are perceived to be more in line with the
current mode, and this is a huge part of what
drives the marketplace. UM. But in terms of France, the
(06:16):
sun King himself, Louver the fourteenth recognized the significance of
fashion way way back in the seventeenth century and I'm
talking to sixteen hundreds here, and he started actively and
aggressively cultivating France's luxury industries as a way to strengthen
his nation's economy. And then what happened was, over the
ensuing century, France really established itself as this arbiter of
(06:40):
style for the whole rest of the world. So by
the time World War Two happened, by the nineteen forties,
there was an international casher associated with all things French
and especially French clothing. Fashion was therefore both a matter
of economic stability for the country but also a matter
of national pride. So it's not really that surprising that
(07:03):
it was a hot topic when the Germans sees control
of a large person of France UM. And also with
resources in nineteen and I mentioned resources, UM. These resources
were super important to the Germans to keep their war
machine functioning. It required all sorts of basic things like food, metal, fuel, Um.
(07:26):
It required wool and leather for clothing and silk for parachutes.
So um. Under the terms of the armistice, the Germans
retained the right to make demands of France's raw materials
and and this pertains. This is what happens a system
of ration NG starts to be implemented. Fuel was the
(07:47):
first thing to go scarce. Um. Three months into the occupation,
food started being rationed. Um. Food stuffs like meat, bread, milk, butter,
and eggs, really basic things. Sugar also, Um, those became
subject to rastion NG. But more important to what we're
talking about now. Um. Later that year, the Nazis instituted
(08:07):
restrictions governing the manufacturer and sale of clothing. And you
mentioned in your in your paper that they set up
this point system for allocating wardrobe vouchers. And I'm really
curious how exactly that worked and moreover, how it was
received by the French. And then, uh, you also talk
(08:28):
a little bit about a trend called system D and
I want you to talk about how that arose from
this whole voucher situation. Yeah, sure, So how the bachelor
system works was or worked UM was each French citizen
who held a food ration card. Because the food ration
system was implemented first UM. They were also issued coupons
(08:51):
which total thirty points and this was where their annual
clothing consumption. So were you to go into a store
of Bautique to buy something, you would have to present
your coupon and also pay for the pay for the
pay for the garment or accessory. UM. And this allotment,
this number how they assigned the points the value systems
(09:13):
to things. This is really at barely at subsistence level. UM.
So if you in a single year purchased one will skirt,
one short sleeved blouse and a pair of cotton stockings,
this is was essentially all you could buy for the year.
That was it UM. So you can imagine how this
was really demoralizing to the French. You know, fashion had
(09:35):
been part of their national identity for centuries. This is
this is something that they're very proud about and and
and for um. So what emerged in the wake of
this clothing restriction system is really super inspiring to me
at least. UM. A lot of French women decided that
(09:56):
they were not going to take this lying down. It
was really imp portant to them that they ripped them
retain their reputation for chic, and they started coming up
with all sorts of creative workarounds to these clothing restrictions.
The first tactic they employed became known as the stante
in French pronunciation or system D. You know, it wasn't
(10:19):
choice A, B or C. It was choice D. It
was like your fourth option, you know, the one that
you had very little choice but to accept. UM. And
what it was was a more extreme form of the
UM American campaign that got dubbed Make Do and Men
(10:40):
from the same time period, and both of these campaigns
encouraged the recycling, the reuse and repurposing of garments. So,
for instance, UM they would take old sweaters and unravel
them for the yard and then re nit them into
new garments. Or a man's old suit might be ripped
open at the seams to be used for the textiles
(11:01):
and re cut into a boy's suit or maybe a
woman's jacket. UM women would take lace or trimmings off
old garments that couldn't be repaired and then transfer them
onto new garments. But one of the funny and most
interesting examples of system Day that I've seen was detailed
in a French fashion magazine, UH, which provided the really
(11:24):
detailed instructions like practically step by step of how to
take dog hair groomed from long haired breeds like poodles,
and how to spin and card it and turn it
into knitting yarn. That's fantastic, it is, and I imagine
if you had rabbits you would be set with Angora.
(11:44):
And I'm also wondering what I had to say. I
love system Day in terms of just the d I
y angle to it is, so as you said, it's
very inspiring and it's sort of charming, even though it's
really a very I'm going to use the overword term
of fierce, but it it really is. It's such a
dig in, like just digging in your heels and going nope,
(12:04):
you cannot dictate what we wear. We're going to find
our own way. I love it, love it, love it. Absolutely.
There was like these fashions were defiance basically. Okay, so
(12:32):
let's now pick up my interview with April Callahan to
hear about how shoes in particular during this time actually
have echoes in contemporary fashion. I know you talk a
little bit about this in the research that you did,
but will you talk some about how rationing changed footwear
(12:53):
in France because I think that is fascinating. Yeah, yeah,
and it has an interesting twist and in connection to
contemporary fashion UM, which I'll speak about here in a second.
But shoes were a huge problem and occupied France UM.
In ninety one alone, the Nazis took for themselves five
million pairs of the country's overall production of eight million,
(13:17):
so more than half UM at this same time. Under
under the governance and rules that they instituted, the French
were only allowed to resole their shoes once a year,
and they were allowed to buy no more than one
new pair of shoes made from ration materials every four years.
So this is a huge problem. UM. Leather was one
(13:39):
of the main ration materials and seriously in short supply,
so cobblers started resoling their clients shoes with whatever materials
they could get their hands on, and some of these
were very bizarre UM, including old tires. They would waterproof
cardboard and use that and either braid or plate strips
(14:01):
of straw and use that to resole their clients shoes. UM.
But manufacturers at the time also recognize this problem, so
they started turning to these alternate materials that were unregulated
by German mandates and UM it's through this necessity that
one of the most iconic looks of the nineteen forties
(14:22):
was born. UM shoemaker started using wood, cork, and plastic,
all of which were unrashedun materials, and they started using
to create heavy platform and wedge shoes and the thickness
of these ensured the longevity of your purchase right because
the height would take longer to wear down. So any
(14:45):
of you out there who are fans of wood or
cork wedge shoes that are like super fashionable today, you
can you can think you can thank French ingenuity of
this period next time you you strap them on. That
is so funny to me because we think of that
as such, particularly in resort where cork cork shoes are
so popular, and it's all because of a time when
(15:06):
the idea of having resort time was really not in
the picture at all. So I love it. Uh. The
next thing I wanted to talk about was the rather
brazen move or plan on the part of Germany that
ended up thankfully getting derailed, which was that apparently there
was a plan to move the couture industry out of Paris,
(15:28):
which is terrifying. Uh, and how exactly did that get derailed?
Like how was that stopped? So? Indeed, yes, Um, plans
for the moving of the Paris couture industry to Germany
were well underway. Um. The Germans recognized the physical significance
of not only French couture but also their own domestic
(15:51):
fashion industries. Um. It's really curious and a point that
kind of underscores the hypocrisy of the Nazi Party. On
one hand, Um, they were on the domestic confront, they
were officially promoting this archetype of the wholesome German house
route and mother wearing traditional dress. But on the other hand,
in practice they were actively supporting German high fashion exports
(16:16):
for a monetary game. Um. And I feel like it's
an important point here to make that the general German
populace were also subject um to clothing rationing starting in
nine but by that point within Germany it was almost
a moot point because so much of the country's own
resources had already been drained UM for years prior to
(16:37):
nineteen nine, the German people had kind of been railroaded
into giving donating whatever they could spare to the war effort.
You know. There there there are instances of young brides
that donating their wedding gowns to the cause because they
thought that the silk might be able to be used
for parachutes. Um. But yes, um. During the occupation, the
Germans raided the offices of the governing body of paris
(16:59):
okucher industry and they summoned the president at the time,
who was a couturier, Lucian A Long. And it was
a little bit of a complicated process of the Germans
back and forth, back and forth, but Lalong was eventually
able to convince them that oat couture was too inextricably
tied to Paris that took forth it for a wholesale
(17:19):
deportment of the industry to Germany, that that would kill
its spirit, and and also that it was really kind
of an unfeasible proposition to export all of these tangential
industries that supplied the coutura. You know, you had the
tex bio manufacturers, you had ribbon and flower makers, you
have dyers, you have pleaders, bead makers, embroiners, milliners, you know.
(17:40):
To to move all of those peoples, with all those
people in industries was going to be a herculean effort essentially.
And your lecture was titled Sleeping Cobras. Will you explain
to us what a sleeping cobra was in the context
of fashion in France in the nineteen forties and how
was that style emblematic of France really kind of hanging
on to its national identity during this time of occupation. Sure, um, So,
(18:06):
I think the term sleeping cobra can be can apply
in a couple different ways. Um. I was kind of
using it in two different ways, and my reference there
um First it could be um as a metaphor for
these women right who were kind of silently protesting UM
with the fashions that they were wearing. But the phrase
itself um is something that's loosely based um on the
(18:29):
writings from one of the leading coutriers as the period,
Elsa Scaparelli. In one of her autobiographies, she wrote about
the hats that friendshipmen were wearing during and just after
the occupation, and a lot of people were legitimately shocked
when the first images of Paris appeared after the liberation
because the fashion seemed so strange, so bizarre. The silhouette
(18:55):
had really become extreme and exaggerated. It had these really
the wide, heavily paddaged holders, these tall, clunky shoes, and
the hemlines had risen, they become much shorter. Um. But
the hats, the hats, they were truly bizarre. Um. Scaparelli
called them an incredible horror. And she compared she compared
(19:18):
the giant turbans that these women were wearing. She compared
them two monstrous cobras that had eaten a huge meal
and crawled up to sleep. Um. And and ceasfil Beaten,
who was like great, um, you know, cultural touchstone of
the time, and bomb vivante Um. He said, they looked
suspiciously like domestic plumbing. Um, I know, I love it.
(19:41):
But the hats were really kind of One of the
main ways that French women were using fashion as a
form of political resistance during this period, and one of
the reasons for that is the materials. Um Many of
the materials used to make hats that were used in
millinery were unrestricted, so this became the sort of unexpected
medium through which women were able to wage a silent protest.
(20:05):
And Um, how this kind of happened was is that
in the nineteen thirties hats were a little more trim
a little more tidy. Um. But in the nineteen forties
they wharphed into these really sort of outlandish, oversized creations,
and turbans grew so large that some of them actually
required interior wooden architectures that then would be wrapped and
(20:30):
swathed with like yards and yards of fabrics. So the shapes,
the sizes, and the trimmings of these hats were exaggerated
to the point of being ridiculous. And this was intentional. Um.
Women were basically flaunting extravagance in the face of the enemy.
They had no choice right but to where these threadbare
(20:51):
dresses or things were kind of like mended and passed.
You know, they were making do They were wearing shoes
which may or may not barely be holding together. So
it was through these hats. Um, this was their way
to express themselves. And sometimes these hats functioned explicitly as
objects of a revolt. Um. One of my very favorite
hats of the time period, which is in a collection
(21:12):
in France, Um, it was it featured a really wide,
upturned brim, and the brim had been printed with hash
marks that resemble, um, the hash marks of a radio dial,
and above that it was printed Post Parisian and Postpriision
had been a really popular radio station before the occupation,
(21:33):
and when the Nazis seized control of the media, it's
silenced Postprision and replaced it with a different station, the
pro German you know, collaboratives station. Um. So some of
these hats that they were wearing were actually quite pointed
in the political statements that they were making. And speaking
(21:53):
additionally of women who were really driving some of this protest,
will you talk a little bit about the mitta nets
and how they were really kind of the arbiters of
style in some ways? Yeah, yeah, for sure. Um Mito
NEETs were women who worked in the fashion industry. Um.
Oftentimes they were young women, and they were really kind
of the hands or the worker bees of the fashion industry.
(22:18):
So they had all these technical skills, right, so they
took system day or System D to a whole new
level of sophistication. Um. They would so old scarves together
to create these wild patchwork textiles from which they would
create garments um. And they had all sorts of fun
with ribbons, because ribbons were unrationed, so they would sew
(22:39):
them together to make these really wide, whimsical skirts. Um.
But once again it was with the hats that they
were really sticking it to the Germans. Um. They made
enormous hats from loops and loops of ribbons and scraps
of cardboard and oil cloth. And sometimes they would build
like fully fashioned little vine yet and scenes into the hats.
(23:02):
You know, it might be like a reproduction of a
French village or a really important French chateau. Um. But
there was an article in Vogue about the Miternets right
after the liberation of Paris in n Um talking about
them and how many of their creations were intentionally made
to annoy the Germans. And and this is the point
(23:23):
that wasn't entirely lost on Nazi officials. Um. They actually
complained to Lucy and the long head of the stamperson
to Coal about it. And his response, which I think
he was probably loving every minute of what the Midnets
were doing, but his official response was I can't do
anything about this. These styles are not being issued by
(23:45):
fashion houses. And I think this really underscores. How a
lot of these styles of the period, um, this were
what you were saying, d I y fashion. These were
street styles created by the people. I love the idea
that just by virtue of walking down the street in
the garments that you have made and chosen to where
(24:05):
you are making a huge political statement. Uh. And in
talking about some of these sort of coded rebellious messages,
there is uh some stuff in your lecture notes about
coded messages on belts. You have to talk about these, Yeah,
because these are kind of great. Um. So women were
(24:29):
painting or on boardering belts. This is nothing new, um,
but they started doing it during the occupation with motifs
that frequently held hidden meanings. Um. You might see a
very pretty belt decorated with little derek delicate arabesques. Um,
but they're actually vs to symbolize victory. Um. Some of
(24:53):
the belts you see have musical notes on them, which
seemed pretty harmless and charming, but if you could read music,
you would know that score was actually taken from patriotic
French song. And one of my favorites of the period
was a belt that was entitled long Ago and it
was hand painted. UM and it was hand painted with
little images of favorite French dishes which had disappeared given
(25:17):
all the food shortages. That's so cool, um, I mean,
it's one of those things that I suspect many people
at the time, like most German officers, who are not thinking, Oh,
I bet they're coded messages in those ridiculous belts. So
it's such a wonderful, sort of sneaky way to still
like assert your your feelings on the matter of occupation. Yeah. So,
(25:52):
in some alternate universe, the fashion industry moved to Berlin
and probably died off, and I being interested in fashion
and clothing, I'm selfishly glad that it is not this universe.
Thank you, Lucien lit Long. There's also I'm really interested
in some of the stranger trends that grew out of
this time, like the turban so big that you had
(26:13):
to have a wooden infrastructure under it. Yeah. Yeah, it's
it's a lot to think about, uh, wearing on your head.
And I really love the secret messages that are that
were embedded in some of the fashions of the day,
and the way the midd nets were purposely making annoying
clothes just to anger the Germans. April is so good
(26:34):
at like doling out so many really inspiring and interesting tidbits,
and now I totally want to embed secret messages and
everything I make. So next April is going to share
details of fashion at the race track during the war.
But first we're gonna have another brief break for a
word from one of our sponsors. So this last segment
(26:59):
is going to give you a really wonderful easter egg
about the term clothes horse, as well as some pretty
mind blowing information about how salons, or one salon in particular,
was using some very unusual power to dry ladies hair.
You also talk a little bit about how race courses
(27:21):
actually became sort of de facto runways during occupations like
you expound on that a little bit, so Um, the
concept of the race track as runway isn't actually something
that's unique to the period of the occupation. Um. Attending
the races was an immensely popular pastime for decades priorum.
Along with this theater. It was kind of the place
(27:43):
to see and be seen. UM, so much so that
fashion designers would send models or actresses to the races
dressed in their latest collections as a form of advertisement,
and this was really an established practice by the nineteen forties,
so the association in between women clothes and horses was
(28:04):
so strong. This is actually where the term clothes horse
comes from. Um. The models were there to work showing
off the clothes, just like the horses were there to
work racing. Um. And during the teens. Um, during the
nineteen teens, you also in in fashion periodicals you sometimes
also see professional models flange referred to as jockeys for
(28:27):
much the same reason. Uh. There was some some other
really wonderful tidbits in your your notes, and one of
them that just delighted me and sort of blew me
away at the same time is this piece about cyclists,
like bicyclists being used to dry hair in the salon
(28:49):
of the hairdressers. Your well, you talk a little bit
about how that worked, right. So um, hand in hand
with all this other ration ng and shortages that are
that was happening at the time. You can imagine it's wartime, right,
So coal was also in shortest supply, and at certain
points electricity was being rationed, so you may have you know,
(29:10):
a few hours of electricity here or there. Um. But
the hairstyles that were really fashionable at the time, required
frequent visits to the hairdresser to maintain that sort of
quoft waved look, and usually that would be set under
a hair dryer. So with all of a sudden spotty electricity.
(29:30):
There was one particular hairdressers your vase UM. He he
installed a tandem bike in the basement of his salon
and he hooked it up to this intricate contraption whereby
he attached his hair dryers to stove pipes and those
two fans and then the fans were were powered by
teams of of two people riding the bike in the basement. UM.
(29:54):
And this is something that Lee Miller wrote about UM
at the time, and she also u took photos documenting
this UM and this was another reason that turbans were
popular at the time. UM. So if your quaff was
less than ideal, if you hadn't been able to visit
the hairdresser, you could cover it, or alternately, you could
use a turban to cover a wet set when you
(30:17):
were leaving the salt a. I just love the idea
of these poor people trapped in the basement bicycling so
people can have beautiful hair. UM. She she writes that
she writes that they would power produce enough power to
dry around like a hundred women's heads a day. That's impressive.
(30:39):
You talked a little bit about uh, wedge shoes still
being a thing today, but was there were there any
other long lasting echoes in fashion from this sort of
stylish rebellion that was going on in France in World
War Two? I mean, I don't know so much about
the stylish rebellion part, but the nineteen fies are. It's
always a touchstone for fashion designers, so you always will
(31:04):
see from time to time these references coming back to
those really heavily padded UM, wide shoulders UM and the
narrow nipped waste um. Readily I can think of. I
think me and you did a really great collection in
two thousand eleven that was kind of loosely based on
that solhouette. It was fantastic UM. But but yeah, really
(31:25):
it's it's where we are today with with the very
explicit connection between rationing and and fashion today would absolutely
be with the shoes, the platform of wedge shoes that
we were today. Uh. And I have to ask if
there were one style from this moment in time from
this sort of forced creativity that was going on that
(31:48):
you could bring back today. What would you choose? You know,
I don't know if it's so much about a specific style,
um that I would bring back, and more about embracing
a certain energy or mood um. And despite the fact
that these were obviously very very difficult times, I don't
I don't, you know, I want to um gloss over
(32:10):
that these these were horrific times for a lot of people.
But in these fashions you can still feel the certain
jode vivra. Right. They were very spirited, they're very optimistic, um,
and sometimes they were outright funny and laughable. So I
guess what I would choose to take away from that
(32:30):
is like really embracing this sense of playfulness and fashion.
You know, have fun with fashion, be bold, don't be
afraid to make a statement. These ladies were making statements
all over the place, and um, if you want to
make a different statement the next day, that's okay. You
have her mission making and making another different statement, you know,
the day after. You know, you kind of catch my drift.
(32:51):
I think that if you're having fun with fashion, there
aren't any mistakes, at least in my books. Oh, a man.
I'm with you. I'm still going to lobby though, for
the belts to come back, some belts embroidered with potatoes. Well,
maybe some designer will hear this and a little spark
will happen. We can only hope. I really love the
(33:13):
idea of music, you know, laid out on your your
belt or any other accessory. It's so sweet. Um Again,
I always feel so lucky when we get to talk
to you because you have so much cool information about
fashion and history. And last time you were on we
talked a lot about your book Fashion in the Art
of Poshoir and also your book fashion Plates, A hundred
(33:35):
and fifty Years of Style, which continue to be spectacular.
But there is a cool new development. Your fashion Plates
book is coming out in paperback this fall. Yes, it
is true, it is true. Um. It is actually already
available for pre order on Amazon. UM. So the previous
edition was a luxury edition for so for any of
you listeners who may have been detured by its hefty
(33:57):
price point. UM, there is now a much more attainable,
accessible version available on Amazon order and it will be
out in a few months. And if the cover is
the same one that's currently posted on Amazon. It's a
very cool cover, like you get some it is. I
actually just approved the back cover last week. Uh. And
(34:18):
I will once again sing the praises of that book.
I love it so much. It's just such a feast
for the eyes. And it's really the soul if you're
into design at all, whether you're into clothing or any
other kind of design, you see so much of like
how human taste is developing through the years, just by
looking at the clothing. So it's absolutely beautiful and I
can't recommend it enough. Uh, April, thank you so much
(34:41):
for coming and talking to us about World War two fashion.
How can people find you if they want to hear
more from you online? Of course? Um, So you can
follow f I T Special Collections on Instagram at at
f I T Special Collections, And you can also search
online for our blog where we cover really fun cool
(35:02):
things that we have, um and you can just search
f I T. Material Mode blog. The blog is called
material Mode. I'm actually going to post something fresh and
new right after we get off the phone here. So excellent, excellent,
and we will also put a link to that blog
in our show notes. April, again, thank you so much.
You're just a delight thank you treat. Like I said,
(35:30):
thank you so much for joining us for this Saturday classic.
Since this is out of the archive, if you heard
an email address or a Facebook U r L or
something similar during the course of the show, that may
be obsolete now, so here's our current contact information. We
are at History Podcast at how stuff works dot com,
and then we're at Missed in the History. All over
(35:51):
social media that is our name on Facebook, Twitter, Tumbler, Pinterest,
and Instagram. Thanks again for listening. For more enders and
thousands of other topics, visit how staff works dot com.
MHM
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