Stuff You Should Know

Stuff You Should Know

If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.... Show More

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July 23, 2020 62 min
Today we deep dive on mobile phones, wonders of the modern world! Learn more about your ad-choices at
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Episode Transcription

The text below is machine transcribed.

Hello Friends, we have a book coming out. Finally, and it is awesome you're going to make me say the title again: Yeah, fine, it's Stuff You Should Know Colan an incomplete compeniom of mostly interesting things and get this chuck.

You don't have to wait to order until the book comes out.

You can do what we in the book - Bis, Calld, preordering it and then, when it does come out, you'll be the first to get or among the first well, and not only that you get a preorder gift. You get this cool custom poster from the illustrator of the book, Carley Menardo, who is awesome. We worked with another great writer who helped us out with this thing a great deal. His name is nills Parker and it was just a big team effort and it's really really cool. We love how it's turning out yeah, we do so anywhere. You can buy books, you can go preorder the stuff. You should know Colin an incomplete companiom of mostly interesting things and then after you do, you can go on over to stuff. You should read Bookscom and upload your receipt and get that preorder poster. So thank you in advance for everybody who is preordering. That means quite a bit to us, and we appreciate you stuff. You should read Bookscom for order now, welcome to step. You should know a production of FI heart radios have step works, hey you! Welcome to the PODCAST, I'm Josh Clark, there's Charles W Charles Charles, in charge, Bryant Man - I we might need to take this one over again chuck. I don't think I've ever laughed like that in my entire life yeah. You can't link me to Scott Bayo God.

Oh that's, true, that's true!

whatbecause of his acting or I don't like him in real life, I'm just kidding. I know he was great as Bob Lah Blah.

No, that's true I'll give him that okay, that's the common ground. We can all reach on Scoppe, Ba Blah Blah yeah.

So this is stuff. You should know the podcast not about Scott Bao, but about something that I would wager there's about a ninety six percent chance that Scott Bayo has used.

That's right cell phones, but before we talk about cell phones, we do want to address a Jesus controversy.

I hope not.

You know we got a book coming out. This fall the stuff. You should know colon, not these stuff. You should know. I always get this wrong. What's my problem, the IROCK Stuffyo should know colon a great book about lots of great stuff for no, it's called it's called and you came up with the title for peak fake. I know I always get confused when I'm in the moment incomplete compedium of mostly interesting things. Yand we've been plugging this preorder gift, which is a cool, little custom poster, and we just learned recently that if you live outside the US as of now, that is not available to you and we're trying to make that available to people outside the US and we're working on it and it's complic more complicated than you would imagine it really. Is We don't like things to be complicated? We just like to be able to say things, and then they become true yeah, but that has not happened in this case because we've run into the jug or not. That is international intellectual property rights yeah. It's weird it's different, but we're trying to, but we don't want to dissuade people outside the US from preordering, because preorders are very meaningful to booksellers and book buyers and it means it means a lot to us so, but at the same time chuck we just laid it on the line to not cheat people out of something they thought they were going to get. So I feel like we're standup guys here we're doing our best yeah, so we'll try to do what we can, but in the meantime yeah I mean you're still going to get the book. Even if you don't get the poster. How about that?

Yeah and the book is really kind of the good part sure the posters cool too, but the book is really what's going to knock your socks right off of your feet.

That's right and one day you will even be able to read this book on your mobile phone segue complete Colan, I mean period period, so we are talking mobile phones, and this is like such an enormous Bahemith of information.

We just first of all have to say hats off a million times to our buddy dave ruse, who managed to like whittle this down into a mangeable shape and a still a pretty comprehensive shape. If you ask me yeah, I agree, and he starts off with stats, which is one of my favorite things yeah, because I always wonder like how many people have smartphones and cell phones at this point and ninety six percent of Americans have cell phones in this day and age yeah. I imagine adults is and a lot of kids, but I would assume this is an adult average.

I would think for everybody, because kids have their own phones these days too, it's nuts yeah, but I don't think they would factor in like three year olds. Would they?

If the three year old, has a fom? Why would you thi the threeyear old out? You know, let's tell you what I got a five year old and she can certainly use it.

Yeah yeah, but I mean there's that whole screentime thing too, that you got to be concerned about to right.


Not Really, I mean not all day long or anything, but we grew up on screens ere. Just credior.

That's true! Let me ask you this, though, so is.

Is She generation Z, or is she something brand new?

Oh, I don't even know Huh.

Well, I don't know what Genz is.

I guess is that behind right, byind, millennials yeah?

No, I don't think she would be. Then I don't even know how that stuff works, its off fake.

We well find out and report back sometime.

So one thing I want to I want to throw in there, though, chuck is, and by the way generations are not fake. We did an episode on it.

I we really yeah.

It was a good one too, and I think we conclusively establish that they are real, but the the worldwide cell phone ownership is something like sixty one point: seven percent wow yeah yeah and that's just that's cell phones, though like smartphones, it's less, but it's just a little less, especially considering that smartphones have only been around relatively short time compared to cell phones which, by the way as we'll see, have been around since the s yeah. I think it's smartphones and two thousand and nineteen was about eighty one percent in the US up from thirty five percent, seven, eight years previous to that yeah, and I think it's about forty five percent worldwide. So a lot of people have a phone, I think is the overall point we're trying to drive home here, yeah and we'll get intofone addiction late in the episode. But I did see stats that people look at their phone and check it eighty times a day and touch it or I'm sorry, yeah touch it twenty six hundred times a day and the math there works out to about thirty five touches per check, which seems about right.

Okay, that makes sense I didn't I thought touches like when you reach for it and touch it so this this is like see how people did that twenty six hundred times a day yeah, but then they only actually interactid with the thirty five of those times. That's what I thought now I think it's eighty times you'll pick it up and touch it.

Thirty five different ways which is I'LNEVER, mind: I'm Gointo make that joke, but he, but it's like Camasutra Esk e, that's where I was headed. It wasn't really way. To put it. Did I really head your mind? Well, it was sexy and nature sure, okay sure.

Well, if I, if I can't read your sexiness on your mind, I don't know what I can read about you. You know and you're, just in one earhole, that's true seem the same to you buddy, let e rigt mine, your left or Youre right.

I have an earbut in my left ear and we don't even look at each other when we do these you're on my left right now too.

This is now that means we're in love, yeah, commasuitro style.

So I think we should dive into this history. I thought this.

I frankly thought all of this was super fascinating, because I learned a lot of things and a lot of it was just simple stuff that you know I never knew what JS tid for lte or a lot of the stuff at his never really even knew what it stood for. I know it's pretty awesome, so we can finally tell everybody, the G and all of like the Cell Phone and Cellular Technology Stansfor Gary.

I thought it was grandma. That's had different research, no it's Gary, so you have first Gary Second Gary Third, Gary and so on.

All the way up to five Gary, which were about to really start to get into Buto five Gary started coronavirus.

It did how so well that's one of the conspiracies about five g out of all the wacky conspiracies about five G. that's right is that it started coronavirus and then was put in place to keep people at home while they secretly go out and install a bunch of fie g thingsthat's how the world works, it's ont so to five. Gary is it's all five Gary's fault, so this scary guy.

We need to have a talk with him, especially because in reality a g stands for generation, sorry getry, but which makes a lot of sense, but a generation is not just like it's often applied to specific technology like threeg cell iphone is the third generation iphone, but it was technically a second generation mobile phone which gets a little confusing. But when you're talking about mobile phone technology and you're talking about generations, a generation basically defines all of the underlying technology from the network to the actual devices that are designed to operate on that network. That typically describes a generation when it comes to telecommunications technology, and they can come really fast.

They can come achingly slow, like the Fiveg, is right now, but they do come eventually and they seem to be worth waiting around for because they have advanced us by leaps and bounds as far as being able to sit around and touch our phones, thirty five different ways: Twenty Six hundred times a day goes that's right, but we can go back to zero g.

If you want to talk about the origin of a phone that was mobile, we have to go back to s, and you know this sort of made me think of army phones, like the other phones.

I was like what were those things operating on, and you know the ones in the tent that you see with a general.

Are you know wired, but the ones out on the field were on radio waves and my dad actually had a couple of those. When I was little that we use when we were camping, really yeah, it was neat H, t it was sort of a later model. It wasn't like a World War, two thing that was a big block with a handset that you stick on it was it looked like a giant Wauki Talki. Basically, I think I've seen what you're talking about, and I mean that that kind of technology it just basically use the same kind of radio wave that you would use to broadcast like, say, a ham, radio except it was a much more portable technology, and actually we use that that technology, like analog radio, wave technology for our cell phones up until I think, basically, the the two thousands. Maybe so. This initial, like we weren't rlugging around these clunky radio funds, we weren't using radio phones that are basically like many radio broadcasters, but we were using the same form of technology, which is an analogue radio wave. That was the whole thing, but what set the radio phone apart from what would later become a cell phone is the kind of network that the radiophone interacted with right.

Yeah. The first radio telephone network was in St Louis in the mid S, and that just had one radio tower could handle about twenty five calls at once and theyre. You know they're routing this thing. Operators are routing this thing to land lines, basically or other radiophones, but they were like this. His got ta change like there's. If we want a mobile phone, we got to be able to call from anywhere and then I think forty seven bell labs was working on a project and a man named Dh Ring believe it or not, Roteamimo. Based on some, I guess, research by a Guy Name, an engineer there named William Ray Young.

That said: Hey.

What we need to do is build. A network of these towers, lay him out in a pexsagonal pattern and they'll just hand off.

Basically, you know, as you move around, they will hand off the signal to the next tower and that's that was the first sort of network created right, which which I mean that would make a a mobile phone actual mobile phone. You didn't have to basically stand just improximity of that radio tower you could move around, you could actually be mobile, and that was what d you One housand, nine hundred and forty seven yeah and I said, created. I should say the idea was created. It was a long time before it was actually created yeah, because that memo it was just a memo. It was published internally only at bell labs, but it is, you know, definitively the the first idea for a cell phone network, but it wasn't until, like you said a little while later until the s that some more bell lab engineers, a new generation of them. If you will a new Gary of bell lab engineers were feeling that's going to stick came along and they they said Hey. This is really good. Let's, let's figure out how to actually make this work, and so they took dhring and Willie Ray Young's design and turned it into the first.

Like actual here's, how you do it kind of paper and research, and I couldn't see that they coin the term, but they seem to be credited with, if not coining the term cellular at least describing something that would very soon become known as cellular, because it's not the phone that sel ether, it's actually the network yeah and here's the thing. If you want to actually here's two things: okay, at your next dinner party in two years, you can, you can be this guy or that guy and that's gender neutral. Of course sure you can be the guy that says, you know what they call them cellular networks because they were laid out in a grid.

T is heagonal grid that look like cells in the human body and people will say, that's so cool. I never knew that or you can be this guy who says atte. So technically it's a mobile phone communicating over a cellular network, not a cellular phone right, don't be the second guy. Don't be that guy? No, I mean he's right and he'll probably get into heaven just for being right all the time, but people won't like them here or there. You know yeah, so you've got a celular network, that's starting to be developed in the ES, and I guess words started to get out because the the US, I guess the FCC started working with Bell Labs and they started to say: okay, we're going to build this network. Everybody gets to making devices that can work on this, but it turns out.

I don't know if they were inspired by it or if it's just kind of like a side track - or this is all going on at the same time like there seems to be some sort of ripple in the Zite gist at the time that everybody wanted to develop a mobile phone network and it wasn't bell labs in conjunction with the FCC that createded the first one, the first one wasn't in America.

It was actually as far as anyone can tell the first genuine mobile phone network was in Finland, their audio radio poolin.

I think I just nailed because I made it sound like Bork. At the end there yeah they were the first ones, and you know they have the advantage of being much smaller, obviously, but that was the first nationwide mobile phone network, one thousand nine hundred and sixty nine, and by the late s I think they had everything covered with a hundred and forty stations. Yes and thirty, five thousand users in the mid S, which is not too bad, which is thit's nothing worth sneezing at. But it's still technically not a cellular network. It's a radiophone network because they just had a bunch of radio phone towers that were placed far enough. Apart that you could kind of move arout. It was not a cellular network, so we do go back to the United States now and find the first celular network developed in the world. As far as I could tell, but astoundingly as that word got out that everybody need to start developing devices that could work on cetlar networks.

They actually got the cart ahead of the horse and the first cell phone actually debuted before the first cellular network in the United States yeah, it seems like I've never had a Motorolla, but it seems like they've, always kind of been on the forefront of things. U E.

without a lot of Hoopla like the razor was a big deal and the I think they they had the first brickphone and bagphone. Even I didn't know about the Bagphone, but they definitely had the brickfone. The one that Zack Morris had the the dine attack was the very first cell phone at the very least ever make a cell phone call in the United States yeah that as one thousand nine hundred and seventy three and this Guy Marty Cooper had been an engineer engineer there for a long time and big competitor with Att. Obviously, and so this he took this two and a half pound phone.

That's ten inches long. Everyone does that great beautiful brickphones and went out on the street corner in Manhattan, supposedly and called Joe Ingle, which was one of those two guys. I don't think we mentioned them by name who kicked off atts program and he was, I guess, sort of the arch rival at Bell labbs and he called him up, and I don't know what he said like Hey sucker. What do you think of this yeah chump want to peel yourself off of the ground and get to work for me, and I saw there's a great popular science coverr from July. Seventy three with that dyne ATAC phone on it yeah and it said the new. Did you see this thing?

The phone or the cover the cover, no, I haven't it said the new new takealong telephones and I just thought how funny that would be. If that stuck, you know, and we would be like have you seen my take along, I can't find it anywhere my DSA Alin Gan, the cell phone and we had the exact same kind of cell phone like it never evolved past the dynatech that would be even better and by the way. Another story in that issue was solving the mysteries of the northern lights right.

Are They God sources say yes, so we've got finally we' e, the first cell phone we still haven't gotten the first cellular network. Apparently Marty Cooper possibly made a call in Manhattan connecting to a radio tower from from Bell Labs, we're not sure, but he still came up with the first cell phone. It wouldn't become a genuine bonafied cell phone. For a few more years, though, antilne thousand nine hundred and eighty three and I say because we finally reached the first generation of setter networks chuck, we should probably take a break all right. Let's do it.

Okay, we just lept friends from zero G to one g were five Garis to one Gary we're. Finally, at our first carry and he's doing great one thousand nine hundred and eighty three he's showing a lot of chest. HAIRE got a couple: medallions he's just audition for a new show called the Ateam doesn't get it, but he still feels pretty good about the work that he put in in the audition.

I was just trying to call up face's name. The actor who played him dark benedict, Oom wow. Is that it yeah.

I just see Gary like going Dirk, Benedect yeah, always getting my parts.

Well, they looked a lot alike, they did especies one thousand nine hundred and eighty three and, like you mentioned earlier, this was still on Analogu radio signals at this time.

Right. No, no, just not great! Oh, Oh yeah, you're right, I'm sorry, I'm right! So!

Yes, it was analog signals. Do you justsay, you're right, I'm right! Yeah, everybody wins, it was.

It was analoc signals, but now these radio towers were all part of a genuine cellular network. So yes, you're right and it was analogue for sure yeah, which is you know analogue, is great in a lot of applications. If you're talking about guitar amps to Bamps and things like that, Analogu is great, shut, ind record players and there's a good argument to be made for Analogu technology yeah. But if you're talking about cell phones, they can only handle a certain amount of calls. There's no like virtually no security. You can tap into one of those calls back then pretty easily.

If you know what you're doing, but it was, you know, it was the first attempt it was, and I from what I saw the sound qualityis actually clear, but the problem is is clear because there's not as much loss because you're not compressing anything right. That makes sense, yeah and so so analogue had a lot of drawbacks and it still has a lot of drawbacks whenever it's used and but it would stay that way for quite a while. Actually, I think, until the early, so we wn fo one thousand nine hundred and eigty three, where the first cellular network was set up by Eightt into the early good decade, where everybody was just using analog cell signals and finally, sometime in Oh, I guess about one thousand, nine hundred and ninety one or two the second generation came along, and this is an enormous leap forward. As far as telecommunications technology went like zero G to one G was kind of edging forward, and it was mostly about the creation of the cell phone and then figuring out how cell phone network would work. Tog was like okay, let's see we can do with this puppy and and taking a a dumpy, loser Short Order Cook and turning them into to Dirk.

What's his name Benedict? Yes, Hey, I don't want to insult any shorter. It cooks out there.

No! No it's this 't, my FA, Kun!

You know who I was describing as barth from you can't do that on television I thought you're going to say the guy from Alice victe back was not dumpy, my friend so tg. What they did was they digitized everything and they squeezed all that stuff down and all of a sudden apparently could fit about ten, and this is a rough estimate, but about ten digital phone calls into that same band with as the one analogue call - and this was a big leap forward - and this was in Europe - is where things got started, and and also where text messaging got started.

I didn't know what SS stood for until yesterday. What d you think it's OFOR!

I had no idea, I never see. I just never tried to figure this out. I never thought about any of this stuff.

I yeah it didn't really matter enough to be to stop and think about either. I have too much to do you wanwhat anyway stands for. I want you to no. I think you should all right.

It stands for short message service, because the first text could only be a hundred and sixty characters sounds from. This was like I said, rolled out in Britain and when I think back to my my first European R, one housand nine hundred and ninety six, that is when I first saw widespread cell phone use.

Yeah was in England, Yep yeahs like what is going on here. They're like it wasn't ubiquitous, but a lot of people were using cell phones in the mids yeah and using them to text too right.

I guess I mean there. Were I didn't really you know I couldn't I din't know what texting was at the time sure, but they had the ability to yeah.

You me spent some time in Japan in the S and she said like it was just nuts what they were doing with cellphones, especially texting and then came back to the states and Ed owaited like a couple more years before it really caught on here, because apparently it was that episoter was Europe thanks to some some engineers with what called the group Special Mobile, which was formed back in the s to like create a Eur like a Europe wide celular network. Well, one of their engineers created SMS. So it started to take off there.

But apparently it took off in particular because of votophone, which is like a paage. You go phone service and the first SS set message ever sent was Ien, one thousand nine hundred and ninety two by a votophone engineer from what I understand yeah, and I think was that the one where he sent Mary Christmas to his boss, yeah he did and his boss said.

I'm Jewish you're fired right, get back to work. Cra Yeah, but you mentioned the page. You Go. I think that sort of democratized it in that all of a sudden. You didn't need a credit check or you didn't have to have this recurring monthly payment drawn from a bank accounter credit card or something right you could. Just. If you had some money, you could get a phone a lot of times for free and just pay for the calls and the text that you made and that that really made it spread kind of far and wide yeah. And if you were a criminal, you could pay for your phone in cash and use it until you figure the cops had a beat on you and trash that one and get another one.

What are this called burner? Phones, that's right!

So the SMS started to take off in part because, like you said it, the cell phone itself was democratized, but also because they started adding like Alpha Newmeric keypats, not just new meric, keypads yeah, because initially, when you wanted a text you had to, you had to just use a keypead. Just like you remember when you had to spell out something with the rotary phone like ABC, were associated with one yea. To do that and so everybody's like I'm, not texting and in fact at first apparently one thousand nine hundred and ninety five. If you were in America, you sent about point four text a month. You didn't even bother to finish an entire text or even half of a tex in a single month and then just in a few years, five years, four years later, it was up to something like I think, thirty five texts a month which is still pittily compared to today, but you can see how much it took off because they started to add those Alfa Nemeric, keypants yeah. I was way way late to texting.

I remember when I was working as a PA with my little handheld Nokia, which was great because you didn't have when I first started pn you had a pager and they would paid you and you would have to stop and find a payphone and call the production office.

You had this Noki and all this Sadi'. I could talk to them, but I remember them sending me text occasionally, and I was one of those jus like I'm not going to take time to go.

You know hit number one three times. If I want the letter c right and when the smartphones came out, I wasn't even texting it for a while, and I was a little annoyed that people were texting and I was like I don't want to do. That can just call me so I was kind of a hold out and finally I was like all right and I gave in and now I totally see the value in it sure you don't have to talk to anybody exactly you get a long fights on a text. Sure man, that's the worst Ye. Those are. Those are pretty bad.

Do you remember those Lamos who associated texting with with being girly up until Oh yeah was the thing? Was that a thing yeah? It was the thing now like only girls test yeah, so like I'm, not GOINGTO taxt, because I'm not a girl and then now they associate like recycling and other like Eco, conscious things with with girliness, which is super healthy for our system.

Gotcha. Okay, I know o you're talking about now, but ironically, they express their disdain for recycling Tia text to other dudes, so maybe they'll eventually come along and now they texe pictures of their barb ware Tattoo on their bicep.

Are People still doing that, or is that just a throwback thing?

Oh, I don't know. I just saw a funny meme today that said Your antimasker starter kit and it had a barbed ar tattoo, a pair of ocles sitting on top of ahead yeah a Goti and then those big Chunky, white tennis, shoes that I'm not even sure who makes them. But you know what I'm talking about. I think every brand there is makes them.

Oh has one of those. Those are the ones that float with dis articulated feet in in the the what's that sobody of water off of British Columbia. Oh Yeah, a Y, a! I know what you mean: Yeah, Hey one of the best starter packs I ever saw it was the oh, my gosh that smells amazing. What are you cooking starter pack?

It just had a picture of a garlic and a picture of an onion hes love that so much man is that is that a meane starter pact? Yeah?

Okay - I don't know about any of that stuff. So apparently you do because you know, like the antimasker starter pack thing Ey. I just sout today breaking news good for you.

You should text it to somebody yeah.

So after text we're still an to talkig about text, everybody just buckle up because at first, if you wanted to teck somebody, like you said you had a hundred and sixty characters, you couldn't even text from your phone. Your phone could get a text like some.

Some dumpy barth ask pager right, but you couldn't actually do texting even if you wanted to go to the trouble of just using your new merit keypad.

So eventually we started to leap forward. The big leap for was going from SMS to MMS, where all of a sudden, you could now text more than just text. You could text pictures, you could text music, you could text all sorts of stuff and the person on the other end had just been days upon weeks, downloading a single file that you sent yeah.

It would frequently get interrupted and it was one of the most aggravating things you could possibly engage in. But it was like the promise of this future where this wasn't aggravating and it was ordinary in every day to do.

Yeah and the first camera was the Sony Eriks an T. sixty eight, I had an attachable camera, which is adorable and those I remember seeing some of those early picks that were very cready and grainy, very swegt, yeah and small, but it sort of just married the idea of a camera with a phone.

But I have to say man when I look at those old when I see that Sony Ericson I' long. For that thing, Oh, you can get those ther, they're called dumb phones and, like a lot of people, is well see, are kind of making the switch over to that just because they just want a phone that can maybe text maybe take a picture and make calls well there. I found one that I I might get there's something called the lightphone. Have you seen that?

No so the first version of the light phone had, I think you could make calls and it had maybe a clock and an alarm and that's it, and the idea was, is that you use it as a companion phone. So you still have your smartphone, but leave that thing at home a lot of times when you go out, take this lightphone and engage with the world and now the lightphone to is out and it can actually text and has a clock and I think in minimal direction. Book titer no, no APS at all still, but it does have blue tooth and a headphone Jack, and it's meant to just sort of replace the smartphone for people that are kind of done with the distraction of it. I don't know man, it sounds like the lightphone is, is going down a slippery slope here yeah I mean I started looking at my phone, I was like what do I really need like? I would want to call text and take pictures, what about email and directions and get email right, and I think I could live without the rest.

So like what do you use for directions? WHATAPP, I just use the maps APP on the iphone.

Do you I use ways almost exclusively yeah, because I almost never walk. You know Atlanta's, not a huge walking town.

So when you, when you drive ways, is definitely the prefer APP well, I don't never drive very far so ways didn't really Comei, but I'm looking at all these dumb apps and like all that stuff, could wait really for me, oh totally their distractions yeah.

I could wait till I get home to check my laptop for the most part.

So I need I need a web browser phone text, an email. I could probably do fine with that.

It would be nice to have ways, but you can always just get like a you know.

Yeah but the web rowser is all those things the APP just makes it easier to do.

No, it's true. It is true.

I guess yeah I'll give up my web browser. Okay, you don't have to no, I an to doi too late. I already said I was going to all right. So, let's, let's get back to it here, where are we here? Are we all right we're at three G now we're at three Gares? I think yeah, so so. Second second generation leapt ahead in a lot of ways and then third generation basically took it and kept going, and this was the generation that really said: Oh Yeah Tha that whole like texting, video and pictures and music, and all that that's a really good idea. How can we improve on that?

So if, if the first or if the second generation was all about, you know kind of leaping forward with these bright ideas, the third generation was all about like perfecting them, and this is where the first smartphone started to come in yeah. I feel like this is when they were like you know, everyone really loves the Internet. So, let's put it in your pocket exactly because everybody was really super into the Internet in the lates everybody's. Like I love this ask Jeeves thing: He knows everything Jeez, I love lonus notes CC or whatever it is that email application like people were into the Internet and like this idea of moving it on to your phone. It just just seemed like a good idea to everybody. Isn't it so weird that we can already have nostalgia for early Internet?

Isn't it weird that there's entire groups of people who are now adults that have never lived in a world without the Internet?

I Know Hey actually hold on? I need to go. Get my Web van order.

Your Right Order, my Web Tan, that's going on today. They were just ahead of their time. Oh yeah, of course poor guys.

So one of the big things that allowed like the third generation tand move everything forward was there were some people working on how to get basically faster speeds.

In the late S, there was something called the third generation partnership project and they created two things that really kind of changed everything.

Something called Wide Band Code, division, multiple access and high speed packet access, and basically these were just ways that figured out how to take the information that you were sending compress it and transfer it into smaller pieces so that you could transfer more information faster, which is the whole point of moving forward generally from generation to generation, figuring out how to move more information or data at faster speed, because the more you can do, those two things, the more connected the world can be the faster everything moves and that's just basically the steps that we just keep taking with each new generation yeah. So three g brought her bound brought around a true mobile broadband network and it really kind of set the stage for that first smartphone, even though in the mids we did have the Simon and we had pdas and stuff like that.

Yeah, the SIME was pretty awesome. Actually it's kind of cool, but did you look it up?

Oh Yeah, okay. I, like the Simon, I mean it was genuinely the first smartphone s, fom, one thousand nine hundred and ninety four had a touchscream for petsake yeah had an interactid touch, gueen squeen, yes, but in two thousand and seven with the launch of that first iphone is when that first big splash was made because of a lot of reasons, but one of the biggest was the introduction of the APP store and APPs right, and I remember the APP I mean people still use their APPS, but at first I remember just all those dumb apps that everyone was just like look at this super cool APP. That does this really dumb thing that you'll do once and then never do again: the laundry minder yeah and now, like my APPs, I have a lot of them, but they're all just useful, interactive things like vinmo or my Sono sap or my Delta APP stuff, like that, it's none of them are, I feel, like the early apps were just kind of dumb yeah for sure, but I mean that's how technology happens like somebody has an idea, it's not the best idea, but it's a it's. A proof of concept and then other people say: Oh, that's, a great idea that in particular was a terrible idea and you need to retire, but we're going to take your idea and converted into something that people actually want.

That's how it happens. You know that's how it happened with devices. It's how I happend with the networks. That's how I happene with APPs too, should we take another break sure all right, we'll take another break and we'll introduce you to a a little guy named for Gary Right after this okay, we finally reached the present actually, sadly, because we entered for G in about two thousand and nine we've been languishing in hell there, since because we're technically still in the for G era and the FORGI era, didn't do a lot except increased speets and it increase peeds a lot, but that's really, basically the defining characteristic between Forg and threeg yeah. It was about ten times or is about ten times as fast as threg was, and what this brought about.

The kind of the big thing it brought about aside from just transferring pictures and stuff quicker was you could actually. Finally, stream hd like live sports and HD movies and stuff, like that.

If you want to watch something like that on your phone, which I never have or want to, but a lot of people do for sure, and the the big technology associate with Forg is called Lte, which stands for long term evolution did't. Now that rate and LTE, at least in the US. That's the big FORGI technology, but lte basically runs on two kind of breakthroughs in data transfer, technology ones called orthogonal frequency division, multiplexing can get a glaven, please hey and the other one is called memo. Multiple input, multiple output, which makes a lot of sense because basically, what it is is multiple antennas on your device, say your router o your phone or whatever, and it transfers data from the dedvice and accept stated in coming to the device. At the same time it doesn't like switch back and forth like do you remember back in the s or early sand when you could watch data transfer going on if you had something uploading and downloaing at the same time, you could watch your computers little taskbar.

That's not what it's called. What's the thing the bar that kind of grows I status bar, maybe that is par yeah.

You could watch it flip between uploading and downloading. Well, that all went theway of the dinosaur when Mimo became prevalent or widespread, because you could do both of the same time without sacrificing speed which made your transmission speez a lot faster yeah.

So memo is the human cynoped of cell phone technologies.

I forgot all about that movie, like I literally forgot in my head, that that movie existed and it was a good one too.

I didn't see it, but when I saw multiple input, multiple output - that is the very first thing I thought of Somehow Huh. Oh, you should see it for sure. I think every human alive should see human centepede at least one time, every human over the age of eighteen sure how about this, every human that has a phone O bly.

So technically my daughter has a phone. I gave her my old phone just and took everything off, but the camera, so she could take pictures and stuff.

Very cute. She's, like Wyse, is cracked and you never fixed it.

Now, it's not correct. It actually works pretty. Well, that's impressive.

Seen, honestly, I've never seen a cellphone that is not in use anymore. That doesn't have a crack screen.

Oh really, O you should come over some time and she'll take a picture of you.

Okay, I think that's te deal you can throw it down and break it right, be like now, your normally I told you so so.

The big advantage of Lte for Gltd Lte, of course, is capacity, and that is basically how many, how many calls you can serve at the same time and that's a big problem. You know, depending on where you are.

I remember, even in recent trips and the past couple of years to New York and La Thinking. Why do you people even have smartphones, because none of you can use them?

It's so lame. HOW SLOW IT IS! DCEAS is pretty bad too. Actually, it's just really really slow, because there's so many people all trying to use data - and I mean on transmission frequency like there's only so much band with and if you you know out in des Moine, doesn't matter nothing matters in demoine really, but there's so few people who are trying to use it. Comparatively speaking that you know you can have relatively good transmission rates in New York, they have a huge network, but there's so many people trying to use network at once. It just drags. The whole thing down in everybody's Internet is really slow for now.

For now, because I would suspect if it's not already going on, New York will be among the first cities that are ushered into the true bonafied age of Vive g yeah, so tha, the one big thing or actually two things that fiveg is going to help with we mention capacity.

The other thing that for g improved upon that five garies is really going to improve upon as lower latency and latency. Is that delay when data is bouncing back and forth across the network? And you want to you, want a low latency and for glthe LTE has a latency is about twenty to forty milloseconds yeah real time is fifty Millo seconds and that's what they're, hoping that those five garies can accomplish right, and so the big deal with five g is that it uses a completely different range of the spectrum, the broadband spectrum right.

So it uses he between the thirty and three hundred gigaherts range and it's called the millimeter portion of the spectrum, because the wavelinks between those ranges are about one millimeter to ten millonmeters.

So that's why they call it the millimeter wave portion of the spectrum and because there's so much banned with between thirty and three hundred gigaherts, you can have a channel that takes up something like eight hundred mega hurts right, that's a huge enormous channel and because you have a huge enormous channel and you have a bunch of them.

What that now allows is that hut that big next step forward of the same progression, which is transferring a whole bunch of information at really high speed?

Again, that's the progress of all telecommunications. These days, it's where we're going, and so this five g changeover to the millimater wave spectrum is, is going to allow that so we'll be going from what did you say like twenty to forty Milla second latency yeah, to something like less than one second for latency, which is at it's like happening in real time? Basically, it's reality as if you were standing there watching something a foot away, it might actually even be faster than that yeah. So I guess the idea there is. Is You can you can send someone a a song and it you send it and they get it and it's done sure sure if you ly want to set your sights low?

Yes, that is what it would do.

I just sounded like a GRANDPA. I don't know what happened there.

You could set a picture of your lightphone to your neighber and they'll, get it immediately, the bad part or that guets the drawback about those signals. Is They don't travel that far they travel about eight hundred feet yeah. So the idea with Fiveg is is will have these big cell towers, but then there will also be thousands of little tiny while they're, not tiny, but small, low power, transmitters kind of all over the place buildings on rooftops.

I guess I'll climb pine trees and nail them in those, but I think also remember our episode on the Internet of things, how it's like all made up of censors and transmitters and just stuff - that's aboared everything.

I think that those will also double as transmitters to so it's kind of like you know those Mesh networks that you can put together with your home router.

I got one of those I okay, so I think it's basically that, but on like a national or global scale where, because of all these different censors and interconnected wireless transmitters, we like everything, will have that which means everything will be connected, which means we'll be living amongst one big mash, which means just walking into your kitchen, will give you covid. Nineteen, that's right, and I think in about thirty five cities right now they have the high band five G, as opposed to the low band. Five G, which I think the low band is just sort of working off those four glte towers and the f the high band will be this. This me network, I guess right, wherr, everything's, connected and because of that incredibly low latency, where things just are communicating back and forth just faster than you can even describe it.

We'll have things like that genuinely connected Internet of things, where everything is constantly monitoring everything else. In the background and Ur, our world is perfect, basically, which actually it sounds funny, but that Internet of things is going to be the thing that lays the groundwork for an intelligent ai that can write on that Internet of things. For us, in the background that can control things like the weather, were the temperature of the beach, the water at the ocean like just stuff that we can't even begin to conceive F.

That will lay the ground work for that and the shorter term we're going to have things like smart roads, where your car is communicating with other cars so that you just aren't going to get in an accident, because that low latency and ubiquitous connectivity means that that car will never come in contact with another car because they're communicating with one another constantly, while you're sitting there reading the paper traveling in your car, that's a that's gen that will happen very soon. That's probably a ten or fifteen year off thing or you'll just be sitting at home. Going I'm a God chuck just sent me a song. Oh wait! He sent me another song, yame another song, yeah or Augmenor reality they'll be another one emember. We did an episode on that yeah and I was very skeptical and always have been about Arnd, VR kind of overtaking the world and there's an argument to be made that it hasn't yet because something like five g wasn't around and the fate speeds weren't where they needed to be, but I'm still skeptical for the reasons I outlined previously. I think we talked about that in the actual episode too, but yeah we did so.

You mentioned about about people being addicted to smartphones and that's, like you know, that's a common concern. I think Nicholas car back in two thousand and nine R, really great Atlantic article. If youv never read it, go read it now: it's called his Google making as dumb yeah great legendary article and that so that article he basically says like.

I can't remember if we did an episode on it or not, but basically he says you know we have changed our brains. The way we absorb information, it's much more shallow, it's much less deep, so yeah. Maybe it is making a stupid that kind of taps into this idea that we'v become addicted to our cell phones.

Not so much that they're making us stupid, but that they've actually kind of rewired our brains in a way so that we rely on them to essentially get happiness from that we get hits of dopemine from things like getting a text from somebody that we're hoping for or hearing that we got an instagram like basically everything you can get a push notification for it's set up so that it maximizes whatever hit of Dope Imean. It might release in your brain and just on that very basic level answers the question whether we're addicted to our cell phones or not, and the answers absolutely. Yes, it's actually design that way.

Yeah and I don't have any push notification said, and I never I wasn't trying to make some stand against it.

I just it never occurred to me that I would want to know when someone made a comment on an instagram post or whatever people get notifications for riht like I'll see that stuff. When I go to those APPs and it's fine and I get my dopamene reward that way, I just I mean my cell phone just - doesn't make any noise unless someone's calling me or texting me yeah and in fact I think people should hear what my text is.

Can you text me Real, quick sure? What's your number jerk ai'll just hold it up and here's my text tone Kay.

All right here comes x.

Did you hear that was that Dirt Barn addict now? That was me?

It's pretty great, going Tex my Aun, but great man, yeah. That's what I hear when a text comes through and I hear Ring Ring Ring Ring.

It's you saying ring ring, yes, an in a British accent and I've got to figure that out because I have I have my ringtone on like the regular one, and I usually I just have my ringer off all the time, because I don't like sounds coming from myself e San there sae and but when it is on, it's like jacked all the way up, because I forget to turn it down. AKD sayinm mowing the lawn or something like that, and you may you mad, like jumped out of her skin yesterday and finally was like okay, I'm actually trembling here. Can we please come up with another ringtom for you, so we went over and came up with a much more peaceful one.

It's just a normal ringtome, but it's like you know very tranquil. It's not like that ringing sound, so it should be all good. Now, I'm happy to report everybody yeah I've got text, man, I've got ring ring and then the only other custom wone I have is for emily.

I just got her to record her yelling Babay.

So whenever a Texter of call comes in from her, I know it's her very nice and Thos it.

So my ringtones, those are great ringtons chuck, but just to kind of put a button, as they say in Silicom valley on the dope mean hit from your brain at that, in of itself is an entirely different podcast.

I promise I vow. We will take up some day because it's definitely interesting. It's worth looking into in depth, but in the meantime, just look up, say: Tristan Harris and some of the articles that were written on him in the last couple F years when he was making the new cycle and hit'll be a pretty good entree into that subject. If it floats your boat and you're wondering why you can't stop looking at your phone, even if you want to yeah in the meantime, that's mobile phones, everybody take it or leave it. It was free, so just take it and stop complaining agree. I said: stop complaining it's time for Listener Mail, which also is free, I'm Goin to call this stocking us, but not really.

Hey guys been listening to a couple of years, and I randomly happened upon your show one particularly boring day at work, and I was hooked. Your funny charming way of explaining sometimes quote to boring topics, got me through a rough time in my personal life and work much happier now with both.

Although my new job, I don't have as much time to listen. I just want to say thanks for being those familiar faces during a crappy time, but I was listening to the insidious abuse of stalking and I had to giggle myself as I listen to you guys every day I feel as if I know you quite well and couldn't help it stalk you both on social media, Chuck, welcome to Instagraham. Thank you chuck the podcaster on Instagram.

I hope I hope you don't think I'm a creep, but it's nice to see a glimpse into your personal ives.

I think that's what the INSTAGRAM's all about right! That's athe's there for look into my personal life creeps little peak looking forward to your book coming out in November, although slightly pissed, I can't get the preorder post in the UK. Yet I think we just address that net episode, She's drunk slightly drunk Bat Sheu, can't get it, and can I ask once a pandemic is over? You guys come back to England, I'd love to take my dad and sister to see you guys live deafh. Yes, absolutely you can see us probably four or five years from now yeah and she says: Cheers Nat PS, keep those pet picks coming on instagram nice nat thanks a lot.

We definitely will do that.

What are you at Chuck, the Podcaster at Instagram Chuck, the Podcaster I' et Josh Um Clark?

You can find us both! You can find our pets. You can find a little peek into our lives, I'm enjoying it.

That too is free as well yeah and again much appreciated. Nat will definitely be over there in the UK again someday and in the meantime, if you want to get in touch with this like nat, did you can send us an email, wrap it up, spank it on the bottom and send it off to stuff podcast CA. I heart RADIOCOM Stuff You Should Know, is production of iheart radios, howsestuff works for ore, podcast to my heart, radio, because it tha, I hat radio, a apple podcast on wherever O, listen to your favorite chows

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