July 28, 2015 • 48 mins
At its base, criminal profiling is a legitimate investigatory tool. The Supreme Court has drawn a clear line that bans profiling when it includes race. So why do we still do it?
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Dude, do do what was that? That is a heraldic announcement? Yes,
before we get going. Uh. I know people on social
media already know this stuff, but I wanted to announce
on the podcast that Chuck here has adopted a baby. Girl.
Chuck has a baby, A beautiful baby. Yeah she is.
(00:22):
She's cuteie. She she was ten days late, so she
came out not looking like one of those little alien
creatures fully formed. Yes, what's her name, Chuck? Her name
is Ruby Rose Bryant Man. She's so cute and she
was born on your birthday. Yeah, isn't that crazy? One
of the better days of the year. Duly take but
isn't that remarkable? I think it is remarkable out of
(00:43):
all the days. And I was literally I was just like, well,
let me scroll through the celebrity birthday it's just you know,
for giggles to see what you know, who shares your birthday?
About three course the way down it's all your face.
And I had forgotten it was your birthday because I
was just in another planet. And I like, immediately I
was like, dimly, you got to see this. You'll never
guess whose birthday she shares. So I think that's really neat. Um.
(01:06):
So anyway, uh, thank you everybody for the support. Stop
stop chuck, yes on behalf of every stuff you should know.
A listener out there, congratulations to you and Emily. Do
you feel like you can speak for them, Yes, of course,
because there might be like one guy out there he's like,
I don't care, he can stop listening right now. But
(01:27):
I do have some people to thank. Um. This happened
in Tulsa, Oklahoma, and um, we stayed in this little
area called East Village. It was literally like a block
in this loft and airbnb loft and above pizza place
and across the street from a bar. And I'll bet
you have some people to think. Yeah, these people like
took us in as family. It was like literally every day,
(01:50):
you know, for ten days late. We're out there two
days early, so for like two weeks they were like,
what's going on? You know, where's this baby? So I
want to thank I've just been which you would love
to do. This cocktail bar right up your alley. It
sounds like you said cocktail bar. Yeah, And not only
do they make like fresh you know, fresh ingredients, but
they don't have like a thing of cucumber sliced stuff.
(02:11):
They cucumber as needed and you know the jalapeno you
would have. They were doing it right there. So Jamie
and Nate and Nicole and Ian the chef at I've
just been. It was the stuff you should know. Man.
Oh yeah. He came out and he was like, is
it who I think it is? How fortuitous? How fortuitous?
And then uh, East Village Bohemian Pizzeria. We stayed above
(02:33):
this place and they were great. Did the smell drive
you nuts all the time? But we ate a lot
of people. Uh So Pat there and my boy Max,
Max and I really hit it off. We're like genuine
life pals now. Uh and he at the end I
go to leave and I just give him a letter
saying thank you and here's my contact info. And then like, ps,
(02:54):
by the way, I have a podcast. He's an ornithologist,
he has his master's, but he's not doing that right
now out you know, he's running this pizza point and
just a really smart guy. Was like, I think you
might like this podcast. I do. He comes up and
tells me afterwards, this is like our parting words. He
was like, dude, your chuck. It's like really I had
a weird like thing. He said, I knew that you
(03:16):
seem familiar, but I didn't want to say anything, like
even watched the TV show. Oh wow. So Max was like,
that's probably why I didn't want to say anything. Yeah,
he didn't want to bring it up. So huge thanks
to those guys. And then um our caseworker Jessica Um
also a stuff you should know fan. That is amazing
because at the end of our first call, like a
(03:38):
month ago, she went, all right, we've got business done.
I have something I have to admit. It's like I'm
a huge man man. So it was weird. It was
like the stuff you should Know nation sort of caring
for me. Yeah, and all of the people like you.
You put a picture of Ruby rose up. Yeah, and
like broke the internet. It was it was people love
the new Bores. Well yeah, but people love Chuck's newborn.
(04:00):
But you know it could have been a puppy and
probably gotten. Don't think I don't do that was very sweet. Yeah,
so that meant a lot to me. But Jessica and
her two sons, Hugh and Henry, I know they are
listeners to They are awesome boys. And she really took
care of us, So I'm glad it worked out. Like man,
three weeks in Tulsa, it was a weird and stressful
(04:20):
and but it sounds wonderful. Yeah, good start though. Yeah,
I mean we were in there. Emily helped deliver this baby,
and I was in the man zone right behind. I
am so proud of you guys. Yeah, I'm so happy
for you guys. I also want to say Jerry is
not allowed to talk. Jerry feels the exact same way. She's, well,
we could take the duck table today maybe, Jerry, how
do you feel? Yes, yeah, she agreed. She just spelled
(04:45):
out on the speaking spelled him anyway. This is not
gonna become the New Baby Show. Um, she will probably
disappear from uh your lives, but just know that we're
all doing great and thank you for the support. Good
all right, yep, nice job, Chuck, thanks man, congratulies, Thank you, sir.
Welcome to Stuff you should Know from House Stuff Works
(05:08):
dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark.
There's Charles W. Chuck Bryant, and Jerry, which means it's
time for listener mail. Oh wait, wow about that. I'm
brain to start. That's why we leave that in there.
(05:30):
Do you want to yeah, or maybe I should just
read listener mail. We can go home. Okay, it's a
build your own episode. Yeah, it's a mad Lives, just
fill it in. I'm profiling, Yeah, styling and profiling. I'm
pretty excited. Are you styling and profile? Well this is
a great that's a different thing this yeah, okay, I
(05:51):
think that has to do with um, like photography. No, thanks,
styling and profile and just means you're living large. Yeah,
you're fashionable and oh gotcha. Yeah, no, this is different
and this is a grabst article, which is the mark
of quality as we all know it is. It's refreshing
(06:11):
to see and it is Um, we should just say
right off the bat, profiling is a super divisive topic.
Oh yeah, um, there are many ways to look at it,
and all they make sense sometimes on both sides. It's
a tough one. Yeah, so that's my cadiat. It's divisive.
So um. One thing that Grabster immediately points out is like,
(06:36):
not all profiling is profiling, like you think of Sure,
we're going to talk about all the different ways, right,
There's plenty of accepted forms of profiling. And the first one,
um is the standard all points bulletin or be on
the lookout, right, that's the kind that no one has
a problem with. No one does because that you you
(06:56):
know what that is. That's uh silver Toyota to come
on with spy today and white male in his mid
forties with spiky hair and uh sort of chubby with
a big gross gray black beard has committed a crime
and he's wearing cargo shorts and flip flops. Oh, I
see you're describing yourself profiler, but you put in their
(07:20):
white male. And the reason that's what I am, the
reason why people don't have a problem with this is
twofold one. A crime has already been committed. Yeah, okay,
I committed a crime. So the police work is finding
a perpetrator that has already committed a crime. And secondly,
that profile is based on eyewitness accounts descriptions of the person.
(07:44):
That's right, So that profile is being used to to
track down a specific person. Has nothing to do with
anybody else. Who's white, has nothing to do with anybody else,
who drives a silver Tacoma, has nothing to do with
any of that jazz. It's just this guy is suspected
of having committed this crime, and he looks like this.
(08:07):
Yeah you hear you see it on the news every night. Yes,
you know it's not just cops that use this. The
news will say the suspect is, you know, wearing a handsome,
checkered Oxford button down, whispy hair, and white, straight teeth. Exactly,
so they're describing you. Oh you think my teeth are nice?
(08:29):
I didn't say that. I said they were white and straight.
That's nice if that's what you're into. This is coming
from a guy who just found out he's about to
have to lose his front tooth all over again. Start over. Yeah, man,
that sucks. Which I know there are some fans out
there that are laughing. Aaron Cooper, that toothless Chuck is
coming back in the house for It's it's really just him. Yeah,
(08:51):
he's the only one whould be jerky enough to laugh
at that. That kind of misfortune, you know, I know,
I'm sorry to bring that up. I'm just still reeling
from that discovery. It stinks. You think you get an
implant and it's for life, Yeah, especially when they sell
you a lifetime implant. Yea, yeah, exactly, alright. So, uh,
(09:12):
like you said, including descriptions and skin color is not
controversial in this case. No, it's in. Everybody from the
FEDS to the local police are okay with that. Yeah,
they're all in on it, and and not just completely
like everybody's like, yeah, this is fine, this makes sense. Sure,
not a thing that's right. The next one is psychological profiling.
(09:34):
And this is when you don't have a lot of
physical evidence or you don't have an eyewitness, and you're
trying to fill in the blanks and make some good
guesses billy blanks based on I remember that guy. Uh,
some good guesses based on like the crime scene or
just the circumstances of the crime. Yes, again, a crime
has already taken place, and you're trying to figure out
(09:54):
who solved it, and you're taking salt who committed it.
You're trying to figure out who's gonna solve it, all right,
all right, which you figure out the same moment when
as you do when you figure out who committed it.
It's interesting in mind bending, Right twice you've jumped to
the end of something. It's so weird. I don't know
what that means. I think you know what it means. Uh,
(10:17):
sometimes they are vague. But wait, I hadn't finished my thought. Okay,
I didn't mess it up that bad. Let me go
back and finish. Um. The point is it's drawn from
available evidence. Yeah, clues, clues that you're bringing together to
try to draw them up an idea of who did
this right exactly? Okay, So sometimes it can be vague,
(10:39):
but if you watch TV and movies, um, it is
probably not how it really goes down, but it's super
specific when you see it in fiction, right, you know,
like I think this, uh as a man who was
beating as a child and he probably lives alone or
Sherlock Holmes was really good at that kind of thing.
So a good point of Sherlock Holmes. Yeah, that's good stuff. Uh.
(11:03):
Did you know he was a morphine and cocaine addict? Yeah,
well I guess you need both in like the original stories? Really? Yeah?
Oh like in the books. Wow, not the real guy, right,
as I think, Yeah, are you sure you're not just
thinking of Robert Downey Jr. I mean I've read the
(11:23):
Originals and he like does he shoots morphine in it?
And and Watson is not very happy with the whole thing.
Yeah he's straight edge. No he's not straight edge, but
he doesn't he's not a junkie, you know. But he
didn't care. He was like Watson washed my toes. I
can alright, moving on to predictive profiling. Well, yeah, this
(11:49):
is where it starts to get a little messy. Yeah,
I can get a little controversial. Even psychological profiling is
a little controversial. I have to say, chuck, like, it's
not a proven, tried and true thing. It's as much
a guessing game is anything else. Um, But it's not
nearly still as controversial as predictive profiling, because now you're
trying to say, these people will probably commit a crime,
(12:14):
right not not not? Civil rights are it issue? Big time?
Big time? Um. Police officers do great work. Ideally they're
not just reacting to committed crimes, but they are um
driving around the neighborhood looking for a suspicious person that
might be about to commit a crime, to prevent crime,
(12:35):
to prevent a crime, which is stuff to do. You know,
it's right place, right time in most cases. And you
use the word ideally right ideally okay, yes, Um, So
even when this happens, this Supreme Court is roundly um
sided with police officers. UM as profiling for justification. So
it's legally speaking, Okay, it's on the books. It's on
(12:58):
the books. So so give an example of the kind
of profiling that's okay to be used. UM, the one
of the articles. Great. UM, let's say you're in uh,
South Florida and you're you're traveling up and you're in
a it's four a m. And you're in a rented
(13:18):
black suv with tinted windows, and you have the spare
tire in the back seat removed. UM, I'm sorry, it's
removed from the trunks area. It's in the backseat, just
sitting in the back seat. Might be might be a
drug trafficker, right, And the cop is basing this on
something like, um, a profile, Yeah, but a profile based
(13:42):
on previous experiences with other drug dealers in the same area.
Because that's a really big one right there. Like UM.
One of the things for using profiles successfully is it
has it's it has it has to be over a
certain period of time and associated with a certain place.
So you use Miami and say Miami in right, if
(14:07):
you saw that person and you would say, well, this
is probably a cocaine trafficker based on all the other
dealings with cocaine traffickers who who used the same transportation
m O. Yeah, and we should point out the tires
removed because you can then hide the drugs where the
spare tire went, and then that's why the tires in
the back seat. Yes, so these are red flags. But
(14:28):
if you're like in um Wyoming in two thousand fifteen
and you read an article about how that held true
in Miami, that is not necessarily a justifiable transference of
profiling because it exists in a different time, in a
different place. That's so, like you said, this can be
(14:48):
a this can be high level policy, UM, it can
be unofficial policy. It can be just merely experienced as
a police officer. That's something you've can countered from time
to time and basically to determine if this profile justifies
a search warrantless search, that is, in other words, you
(15:10):
haven't gone to the judge and as applied for a
warrant and had them review it and all that stuff
or rubber stamp it, which we'll get to. UM, it's
got a stand up in court, right, and so you
gotta be careful as a cop. You do. Um, you
have to have what's called an articulable suspicion, which was
established by a nineteen case or Supreme Court ruling Terry
(15:33):
versus Ohio. And the Supreme Court said, and this is
actually from a Matt ti ab Um article. It's really
really worth reading. It's called Why Baltimore Blew Up. It
was in Rolling Stone like a month or two ago.
It's a very good article. Um. But he talks about
this Terry case led to what it called Terry stops.
(15:54):
Whereas if a cop has a suspicion that they can
put into words, meaning it's not just a hunch, right, um,
that somebody is is either just committed a crime or
going to commit a crime, that that is probable cause
and it's bounds for as search. Yeah, and here's a
(16:14):
had a great example here, like let's say the cop
and court would say this the suspect of pure nervous
made several contradictory statements. In the back seat, I saw
a shoebox full of old film canisters, which drug carriers
commonly use. The car smelled like air freshener spray, which
is used to cover up the smell of drugs, and
I spotted them driving slowly up and down a block
(16:34):
that I know is frequented by drug dealers. That's called
good police work in court. Right, that's called like a
prosecutor's dream cop. Yeah. Um, and if you if you
go back and you notice all of that stuff, all
of these things are based on. So a block that
he knows to be frequented by drug dealers, thirty five
millimeter canisters. Maybe he read a Police Benevolent Association newsletter
(16:59):
article about that. Um, all of this stuff together, um
becomes what's called cumulative similarities. And supposedly a Florida Highway
patrolman named Bob Vogel is the first guy to put
this down on paper. He was very controversial, which is,
you take all of these different things and put them together,
and you can form a profile, and you can use
(17:21):
that to pull somebody over and then you know, eventually
search their car if you're a Florida Highway patrolman. Right, So, um,
you've got you've got all of these. Uh. You have
the terry stops, which are used for broken windows policing
and just for pulling people over, but they require an
articulable suspicion. But they can be based on where called
(17:45):
cumulative similarities, which is a profile either like that your
police department is saying be on the lookout for people
driving with their spare tire in the backseat, um at
this time of night. So far, this has all been
upheld by the Supreme Court. That's right. But there's a
very very fine line um that is frequently crossed, and
(18:11):
we will talk about how that runs a foul of
the Constitution right after this. All right, Josh, before we
(18:33):
took a break, you mentioned something called the Constitution, and
there are a couple of amendments that come into play
when you're talking about search and seizure, probable cause, profile ancure,
and they are the fourth and fourteenth Amendments. The fourth
reads and whole the right of the people to be
secure in their persons. The JFK I went into him
(18:56):
Winston Churchill. Sure, it's both houses papers and effects against
unreasonable searches and seizures shall not be violated, and no
warrant shall issue, but upon probable costs, supported by oath
of affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched
and the persons of things to be seized. So there's
some big words in there. That's right, big, big like
(19:18):
money words like Uh, it's protection against unreasonable searches and seizures,
which means, as far as the Supreme Court's concerned, some
cops just can't say I'm gonna push you up against
the wall and pat you down for no reason whatsoever. Yeah,
Or I'm gonna pull you over for no reason, and
I'm gonna search your car on the side of the
(19:40):
road for no reason. Um, does not happen, right of course?
Not sure? So, Um, that's the Fourth Amendment, right, And uh,
there's another big term in there. It's called probable cause,
like you have to have And if a lot of
people say that that versus Ohio ruling is just too
(20:02):
broad in articulable suspicion, like what is that you know? Um?
But even still there's there's so there has to be
some sort of probable cause. And a lot of the times,
as we'll see, it's just from uh, some something out
in plain side or something like that. But there's a
big struggle over what constitutes probable cause. But the point
(20:26):
is the Fourth Amendment says you have to have probable
cause or else it's an unreasonable search. That's right. And uh,
a police officer in most cases has to go get
a warrant for like the search of a home or something. Um,
And there's a whole issue of rubber stamping warrants these
days of course that like the judge may not even
really review that. It's just a formality. Or for anybody
(20:47):
who's watched enough Law and Order episodes, all you have
to do is go, I smell pot. Do you smell pot?
Wink wink, and then kick the door in. Yeah, exactly,
because that's you can't prove that the cop didn't think
you smell pot exactly. You know, was the threat of perjury,
of perjuring himself on the stand. But I imagine at
least as far as like Briscoe and Green are concerned,
(21:09):
they're hoping that they're gonna find such gang buster overwhelming
evidence that everybody's gonna forget about the fake smell of pot. Um. So,
there was actually a case which relates to probable calls
called the US v. Sokolow that made it all the
way to the Scotus And um, did you read about
(21:29):
that case? I did? It's um it was well that
was when the ruling was right. Yeah, so what happened
was the d A arrested a guy at the Honolulu
airport found over a thousand grams of cocaine and his
carry on. It was a key, he had a kilo
and he paid uh. They the agents knew all this
going into it. This is why they arrested him. He
(21:50):
paid bucks for round trip tickets with a roll of
twenty dollar bills. He traveled under a name that did
not match the name under which is telephone was listed. Um.
He was originally going to Miami, and in this because
lad flag at the time, he only stayed Miami for
(22:10):
two days, even though a round trip flight from Honolulu
takes twenty hours, so a very quick trip, and the
others he was almost flying as long as he was there.
In Miami, he met up with a man named Tony Montana.
Apparently he appeared nervous and he did not check his baggage,
and the district court denied motion to suppress the evidence,
(22:33):
said it was justifiable. The Court of Appeals disagreed and
overturned that, and then eventually it went to the Supreme
Court and they said no, it's okay because they had
what was quote a totality of evidence. So Here's the
thing though, the thing that makes that so groundbreaking and nowadays,
I mean we were raised under so clow right, it
seems like this is just the norm. But it was
(22:55):
a ground break in case of the time, because nothing
none of that. It's not against the law to pay
your plane ticket with cash, It's not against the law
to not check your bags at the time. It wasn't
against the law to travel under an assumed name. Yeah,
and I don't think at the time it was against
a law to go to Miami just for two days, right, exactly,
None of this is against the law. And so if
(23:16):
you if if you just followed the strict interpretation a
law up to that point there was they couldn't bust
this guy, even though when they busted him they found
a kilo of coke, like they knew they would in
his bag. Um, there wasn't enough there. In the Supreme
Court said, you know what, we we think that when
you put all that stuff together, there is enough there.
Now what constitutes that totality? Is it two pieces of evidence?
(23:39):
Is that one thing? Um? You know, how much does
it take to profile? But what they were saying in
so Colo was, yes, the the stuff that you've seen
from other proven criminals applied to somebody else who you
don't yet fully know as a criminal, is enough for
you to bust them and see if you're right. Yeah. Again,
(24:02):
it's not like the groundbreaking He didn't go straight to jail.
They looked in his bag, yes, but it's do you
have the right to look in the bag? That is
what it comes down to. Yeah, and they were saying
that there. The Supreme Court interpretation is this stands up
to the Fourth Amendment. Yeah, and I met the guy
went to Miami for two days, gets your civil rights goodbye?
Uh So with the fourteenth Amendment UM it states in
(24:25):
part that no State shall make or enforce any law
which will abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of
the U. S H. I think everybody wants the Kennedy
voice against U. I think any time you read amendments
from the Bill of Rights, you have to do it
like that. Nah shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty,
or property without due process of law, nor deny to
(24:47):
any person within its jurisdiction equal protection of the laws.
So this one applies. You might say, well, we've got
the fourth we don't need. The fourteenth fourteen says, look, man,
you can't just bust somebody without this, again, due process
of law. And we have a due process of law.
And what the Supreme Court did with cases like Soklo
(25:08):
and with cases like Terry versus Ohio, UM, is they
said profiling is part of the due process of law.
That's right. So one thing that they have gone back
to again and again and again and again is that
if race is factored in and almost any circumstances, there
(25:29):
are circumstances that is where racial profiling is allowed in
police work. But for the most part, if you're basing
your suspicions of criminal wrongdoing on race largely or in part,
then that is not That runs a foul of the
fourth and the fourteenth amendments, and you're not allowed to
(25:50):
do that. Yeah. The grabs Her points out that cops,
unless you are have an a p b out on
a Hispanic mail or a black male, then you are
supposed to be color blind as a cop. Exactly you're
supposed to be. So you know, um, the Eric Garner
case to Michael Brown case, um, all of these cases
(26:12):
where you know black mails were basically stopped from either
doing a petty offense or just stop based on suspicion
because they were black in their neighborhood. UM. It prompted
the executive branch to release a new set of guidance,
like an updated set of guidelines for racial profiling, and
(26:33):
they were they basically spelled out examples. UM I posted
to it on the podcast page for this episode, but
they spelled out examples for when that when it's appropriate,
and they said if it's an all points bulletin for
any police yes, um, if you're traffic or if you're
patrolling and looking for criminals and you're basing it on race,
(26:57):
absolutely not allowed. But they said they gave an example
where like, um, if for example, you are looking for
somebody who carried out a hit on a gang leader,
and you know there's this rival gang and this rival
gang is probably the ones who carried out this hit,
and every member of this rival gang is Hispanic, that
(27:20):
you could use that as part of the profile and
searching for your suspect. It just makes sense in that case, right,
because I don't look for the little old white lady
right exactly because it's that specific. But you wouldn't cast
a dragnet over all Hispanics. It would be Hispanic men
related to this gang. You see what I'm saying. I
think the lesson here is get the little old white
(27:41):
lady to do the hit. It's been done before, and
you're golden. It has been done before, which is one
of the one of the problems with racial profiling is
it's distracting. Yeah, you know, we'll get to that. But
that's definitely true. Um. And you know when you watch cops,
it's not always like it's sometimes that I will see
(28:03):
on the TV show they will pull over. They'll stop
a white kid, like suburban white kid that's in a
bad neighborhood, because they'll be like, well, he's he didn't
belong here. He's probably buying drugs because this is a
street where people buy drugs. There's a crackhouse down there.
And this guy is from the county. Uh, you know,
the white suburban county out in the suburbs. Let's pull
(28:24):
him over. That's racial profile. That's the same same thing
but different. Well it's the same thing, yeah, but you
know what I mean. Um, all right, so let's talk
about probable cause analysis. This is good. There's, um, during
a traffic stop, there's there's several things a cop can do,
and each one requires different kinds of cause in order
(28:44):
for it to be legal. Um. Yeah. Again, they aren't
supposed to just pull you over for no reason. They're
not supposed to. You're supposed to fit some sort of
either you broke a traffic law or you fit a
profile that that has been agreed upon. Is okay. Yeah,
But a cop can pull over for and again we're
(29:06):
not knocking police officers hard work, and mostly they do
great work. But a cop can pull someone over for
anything and say, like when you made that turn, you
swung a little too wide, or you hit that yellow line,
and um, so I'm suspicious that you're drunk, like you know.
(29:27):
Like that, you can almost invent a reason to pull
someone over and under any circumstances. So let's just start
with that. When you pull over a car, UM, Supposedly,
to pull someone over legally, you need to have witnessed
a violation. UM. Or you can run the plates and
see if their cars stolen or if there's a warrant
out for the owner. That's a big thing you see
(29:48):
on cops all the time. Um. And the cop can
make a stop as long as they can describe specific
factors that fit the profile. Right car, car full of
black kids. Not okay to just pull that car over,
not for that reason. But if they say, like I
saw um smoke coming out the windows. Um, they were
(30:10):
driving erratically and it smelled like pot smoke from the road,
then that is a reason number two when you go
to a question the suspect. That's moving things up a notch. Uh.
You don't have to get a ticket when you get
pulled over. You might just get questioned if you seem suspicious. Um,
and they can you know, they'll shine that light in
(30:31):
the car and they'll look at everything that they can
see without actually searching the car. Yeah, and that well
within their right what's called plane view exactly. So if
you have like a bag of pots sitting out on
the front seat with you and the cops sees it,
that just opened your entire car and your person up
to a search. Yes, and you that means you are
super high because now now there's probable cause. But if
(30:54):
you have long hair and you have an open half
gallon of ice cream next to you, still not enough
my racist suspicions, But that still should not be enough
to give him probable cause to search your car. Well,
I got profiled in Texas. Me and my best friend
Brett many years ago after college did a big out
west trip for two months, and the cops said he
(31:16):
didn't put He said he pulled us over because I
didn't have my seat belt on. Um. Why he really
pulled us over us because we were too scruffy looking
guys with tattoos and beards in a Volkswagen van. Um.
And he searched the van. He asked if he could,
and we said he could, and he searched the van
for like an hour on the side of the road.
Long story short, chucked in five years, five hard ones. No,
(31:41):
we didn't get taught with anything, and we got away,
and he basically was mad at us that he wasted
his time and the last thing he said was to
get out of Texas. So and I said, I'm trying
to sir. But the point is that that cop asked
you if he could search your car, right he did,
and that if you give consent then you are waving
your Fourth Amendment rights. But you don't have to give consent.
(32:04):
Not many people know this, and there's some states that
make the cop tell you you are allowed to refuse
the search of your car, um, but not all states do.
I've never heard it either, um. Instead, the cop just says,
can I search your car in the most intimidating voice possible,
and most people will just fold like a house of cards, um,
(32:25):
because they're scared of the cop or whatever. Even if
they do have something in there, they're not gonna be like, Nope,
you're not allowed to search the car. So the point
where the cop asks if he can search the car
is usually in the absence of something that nothing in
plain sight, but also that cops suspicious suspicions are raised,
(32:45):
but he just can't quite prove it. So I'll ask
you if you can search your car. If you say no,
the cop can say, well, I'm I'm going to detain
you temporarily. Right Basically, I can go, I will wait
it out, I can get a war it I'm gonna
search that car, right, Okay. If he wants to get
a warrant, that's different. Like what he's doing now is
(33:06):
trying to do everything he can to search your car
without having to go to the trouble of getting a
warrant without probable cause, like seeing a bag of pot
in the front seat. Right time was that they could
detain you for up to like ninety minutes while they
called the canine unit out. And the canine unit has
been shown to if it the canine unit sniffs around
(33:27):
your car, that's not an unreasonable search. And if the
canine smells something or indicates that there are drugs present,
then that does provide probable cause for a full search
under the Fourth Amendment. Right they change that, yeah, Um.
In April this past April, the Supreme Court had decision
that said, now you really can't make people wait around
(33:48):
while the drug dog comes out. They're like, we're not
a post to that, but the point of a traffic
stop is to promote and encourage traffic safety, not to
cast a drug drag. That for drug couriers. Um, and
you you cannot detain people without a reasonable suspicion to
(34:09):
wait for the drug dog to come out. If they
tell you can't, they you're not allowed to search their car.
That's good. I wonder if it had anything to do
with um. If you look up online, there are ways
that cops can make a drug dog signal basically by
how they're handling the dog. And there's a lot of suspicion,
and they'll play him side by side, like you see
(34:29):
this cops doing it, right, And if you see this cop,
watch this little thing he does. Then the dog barks.
And basically there was a lot of speculation that bad
cops would use the dog tail. Well not that, but yeah,
essentially making the dog signal a false alert just to
give them reason. Well, the dog barked, So now I
can I can search your car or and maybe it
(34:51):
all started because I meant to bring this up a
second ago. Suspicion can be now they seem nervous, right like,
everyone's nervous when a cop pulls him a sure, even
if you haven't done anything. It's just nerve wracking. It's
like white coat blood pressure. I like a lot of
people's blood pressure is high at the doctor because they're
nervous about, you know, being at the doctor. There's someone
(35:11):
standing at my window with a gun, right Like, it's
nerve wracking. Yeah. So the Supreme Court said, no, you guys,
you have to have a reasonable suspicion to detain somebody
on the side of the road that they've committed another crime.
It can't just be I'm pulling you over. You have
to wait for ninety minutes while the drug dog comes
out so I can bust you or try to bust
(35:31):
you or whatever. That was. That was a big deal
that they came up with that. Yeah, we didn't in Texas.
We didn't have the drug dog come out, but we
were I felt like we were on the side of
the road for an hour while he dug through that
entire van. Um just you could tell he was he
really wanted to find something. Yeah, all right, let's open
(35:51):
the cannib worms, my friend. Racial profiling, it's a big,
big deal in this country. It's a problem, and and
um let's talk about it. Okay, that's good. Uh. So
that is basically it's a form of predicted profiling, uh
where one of, if not the only factor, is skin color.
(36:12):
Right that like, um oh, let's say that, um, Mexican
people are way more um prone to sell meth. So
let's go hang out at that Hispanic neighborhood. Right, But
there's a couple of things wrong with that, um, and
that is racial profiling. Some people actually defend it, saying, well,
(36:38):
if you look at prison statistics, Hispanics are far more
likely to be imprisoned for drug crimes than say, white people,
So that makes sense, right, right, Okay, the other saying
right right, I'm playing along here. The other side of
the coin is that you can use those same statistics
(36:58):
to point to the idea that Hispanics and blacks are
disproportionately targeted for drug busts than other people, right, and
so the same This is an Ed points out. This
is one of the problems with this debate is both
sides used the same statistics differently to prove their point. Yeah.
(37:19):
Another thing he points out is that people that say
some people will say that it is institutionalized racism and
its harassment of minority straight up. People who defend against
it say, cops harassed criminals, and if those criminals happen
to be minorities t s. That's not our fault. And
I think that's just the reality of the world we
(37:41):
live in. Even further, there's people who say, yes, racial
profiling is the thing, and it's an effective tool of
law enforcement. Sorry, welcome to reality. Um. Those people usually
have their arguments demolished pretty quickly, including by professionals. I
read this um, this interview, or well an article about
(38:01):
the former chief chief of police of Palo Alto around
San Francisco area, and um, he also grew up as
an Oakland cop, and he was talking about that kind
of racial profiling that you were where they would just
sit out and like, um, high crime neighborhoods and pull
over anybody white. And they were doing like that for
the same reasons, and he was saying it almost never worked.
(38:24):
He said that, um, they also would have like long
dragnets on stretches of highway and they would target Hispanic
people in like low riders, and he said, almost never worked.
And he said that it's ineffective. Right, it's also lazy policing,
because he said the better alternative is to forget who
who's what color, but just watch for somebody leaning in
(38:47):
a car that's just pulled over under the curb, or
somebody making furtive moment movements. Right, look for behavior that
is actually linked to crime. Not there's a white person
in a black high crime neighborhood, so therefore their there,
um they're buying drugs, or even even worse than that,
there's a black person who lives in a high crime neighborhood,
(39:09):
they must be a drug dealer. Let me go stop
and frisk them, um that that is just lazy policing.
It's it's shorthand policing. Whereas if you look for actual
criminal behaviors you're going to have, you're gonna be far
more successful in busting the bad guys. But even worse
than it being like lazy policing and ineffective in a
(39:29):
lot of ways. This guy pointed out like, and I've
seen this in many different places. If you want to
encourage mistrust and animosity toward the police, scoop up every
member in the community and take him to jail just
on the off chance that you might find something that sticks.
If you want to set a town off or any
(39:49):
population off, do that for a few years and see
what happens. And that's what we've been seeing time and
time again. It's systematic. Yes, it's systematic targeting and then
a systematic reactions. Uh. And I've mentioned cops a lot.
If you're out there saying, well, yeah, but on cops
every time they pull over that's a shady black guy
(40:10):
in the neighborhood he has something on him and gets arrested.
Or that white kid in the bad neighborhood he's there
to buy drugs, it's a TV show that's edited. Right.
They don't show you the twenty five stops where there
is no crime because it would not be a fun
TV show exactly, all right. So I think people use
that as like dummies use that as proof sometimes, like
watch Cops Man every single time, right, Like yeah, exactly right,
(40:33):
Like all all matthe Users are scrawny and white. So
if you see a scrawny white guy, Matthewuser, that's right.
Or marathon runner, right, you know. Uh So obviously there
can be uh rogue cops, racist cops that are doing
their thing on a on a singular level or with
their partner. But it becomes a real real problem. That's
(40:57):
a problem. It becomes a super real problem when it
is part of the system. Uh. In which was the
case with the New Jersey State Troopers in the late nineties,
they did a ten year study and found out that
eighty percent of all traffic stops were minorities over a
ten year period, and they found that there was a
quote macho elitist culture within the state trooper ranks end
(41:21):
quote and um. Basically, even though they officially said racial
profiling isn't right, there was a system in place where
veterans would really coach and teach the younger cops, like
this is how we're doing it, and they were basically outed. Um.
The authorities assigned federal monitors to those troopers, and evidently
(41:45):
by two thousand six they had um a report suggested
they had eliminated that profiling completely. Yeah, which is good
if that's the case. You know, and I'm sure it is.
New Jersey state troopers are intimidating. You ever seen those guys.
They're the ones that look like the military uniforms, which
is a whole other issue altogether. Well, I mean not
(42:05):
like M sixty, like like the dress, blues, boots and
all that. Um. It turns out twenty two states have
lawns that band racial profiling of motorists, which is great
until you think that that also means that states don't.
It's kind of weird if you ask me. Um and uh.
(42:27):
I found a study also from Illinois that found that
in Illinois, black and Hispanic drivers were two times likelier
to be stopped and searched, but white drivers were two
times likelier to have contraband on them. Weird, not only weird,
it's it's startling. How like it's it's not effective like there,
(42:50):
it's not leading to stopping crime, yeah, which is sort
of the point. Well. And then another very controversial a
bout of racial prof aisling that this country went through
came after September eleven, of course, and in the aftermath
of that, you would remember every every month or two
you'd hear about someone who sometimes seeks who aren't even Arab,
(43:14):
would get kicked off of like a plane or something
like that because they made the pilot nervous just being there. Yeah,
or T s A would would like pat down. Um.
Just proportionately more Arab people than white people. Um. And
now supposedly they based it on your behavior rather than
your race, so they're not rachel profiling any longer, supposedly,
(43:36):
and it is. I have to say, I haven't heard
of one of those cases in a while, but it
seemed like for a while we're hearing about it all
the time. Yeah, I think there was a heightened sense
of everything back then. Of course, right after. But so
this guy who used to manage the Ben Gurion Airport
in Um Israel, Rafael Ron, he pointed out that that
was the exact opposite of what you want to do yeah,
(43:58):
he said, the worst tech in the history of this
airport was carried out by Japanese in the early seventies.
And he said, if we're focusing on an ethnic group,
then we're we're potentially missing someone that's about to do
something bad, right, which is exactly what happened in nine
two at that airport. Three members of the Japanese Red
Army walked in with machine guns and violin cases and
(44:19):
just opened them up and started opening fire on the
crowd and killed I think, um twenty six people. And
they were hired by the PLO. Pl O knew that
they could never walk into the the Israeli airport, but
the Japanese people would unnoticed. And so this guy is
saying the same thing like if you're really on the
lookout for your enemy, like again, watch for behavior, like
(44:42):
do actual police work. Don't just use this lazy shorthand stuff,
because it's gonna it's going to take off this entire
population and it's gonna cause in you to miss the
real crime. Well, yeah, you've got like it sounds like
a movie. Them the cops are at the airport and
they detained this, uh, this air of guy who's like
late for a business meeting. And then in the in
(45:03):
the same shot, the white dude who was a Timothy McVey,
just walks right behind them with the with the bomb
on his body. You realize you just described the subplot
to Airplane Too, did Yeah, remember Sonny Bono had the bomb.
It's a little mild mannered, weasily dude. Yeah, that's right.
(45:23):
And I think he walks through while they're jacking up
some like I think plo dudes. Maybe that was subconscious. Wow,
so that's a profiling tip of the iceberg. I would
call that. Oh, sure, there's we could do a series
of shows on this, I'm sure. Uh. And if you
want to know more about profiling in the meantime, uh,
(45:45):
type that word into the search bar of your favorite
search engine and I'm sure we'll bring up all manner
of terrible stuff. You can also type in the search
bart how stuff works dot com and it will bring
up this article by the Crabs or And since I
said grabs or time for a listener mail, I'm gonna
call this wee f us, which is short for water
(46:07):
enema from a water slide or from a slide. And
this is from Tiffany last name withheld, She says. Uh.
As a kid, I remember being a chubby eleven year
old girl excited for her first trip to Disney World
in the water park then known as Typhoon Lagoon, had
a brand new neon green with black polka up bathing suit.
It was all excited and UH to go down the Cowabunga,
(46:30):
a two fourteen foot tall water slide on a steep
sixty degree angle. They tell you to keep your ankles crossed.
But as a little chubby eleven year old girl, my
brain comprehended, but my little legs did not have the
strength for all two d and fourteen feet. Thank you
see where this is headed. After plumbing the bottom, immediately
knew something was not right. I clenched my thighs as
(46:50):
tightly as I could, pulling out the massive water slide wedgie.
Not two steps from exiting the slide, though, a different
type of waterfall began to trick al down my legs.
No matter how tightly I clinched, I couldn't stop it.
I waddled up to a gorgeous Australian teenager employee and explain,
I need a restroom right away. Uh, with a smug smile.
(47:11):
He pointed all the way to the other side of
the lagoon, which was a long walk. Just as I
entered the bathroom with all the force of the water
that had entered my body, it exited, and I single
handedly shut down a small portion of Disney that day.
As embarrassing as this was, I was more upset than
my new bathing suit was ruined. My parents were furious
(47:31):
because they had to show out fifty dollars for a
new one Toronto. I hope I didn't gross you out
too bad. I think of it as a cautionary lesson
for your listeners. Thanks for all your hard work. Um,
I hope to see you guys sometime in Detroit. And
hey October, Tiffany last name with eld. We're just gonna
call you Tiffany poopy pants. We're coming to Detroit in October, yes,
(47:56):
ostensibly ostensibly, and also we want to stay Detroit in
advance of us coming. We're sorry for all the jokes
we made about you. It'll all come home to roost.
See you in October. If you want to tell us
a gross story that happened when you were a kid, like, yeah,
don't just tell us something else and tweet to us
at s y s K podcast, join us on Facebook
(48:17):
dot com, slash stuff you Should Know, send us an
email to Stuff Podcast at how stuff Works dot com,
and join us out at home on the web Stuff
you Should Know dot com. For more on this and
thousands of other topics, is that how stuff Works dot com.
Dude, do do what was that? That is a heraldic announcement? Yes,
before we get going. Uh. I know people on social
media already know this stuff, but I wanted to announce
on the podcast that Chuck here has adopted a baby. Girl.
Chuck has a baby, A beautiful baby. Yeah she is.
(00:22):
She's cuteie. She she was ten days late, so she
came out not looking like one of those little alien
creatures fully formed. Yes, what's her name, Chuck? Her name
is Ruby Rose Bryant Man. She's so cute and she
was born on your birthday. Yeah, isn't that crazy? One
of the better days of the year. Duly take but
isn't that remarkable? I think it is remarkable out of
(00:43):
all the days. And I was literally I was just like, well,
let me scroll through the celebrity birthday it's just you know,
for giggles to see what you know, who shares your birthday?
About three course the way down it's all your face.
And I had forgotten it was your birthday because I
was just in another planet. And I like, immediately I
was like, dimly, you got to see this. You'll never
guess whose birthday she shares. So I think that's really neat. Um.
(01:06):
So anyway, uh, thank you everybody for the support. Stop
stop chuck, yes on behalf of every stuff you should know.
A listener out there, congratulations to you and Emily. Do
you feel like you can speak for them, Yes, of course,
because there might be like one guy out there he's like,
I don't care, he can stop listening right now. But
(01:27):
I do have some people to thank. Um. This happened
in Tulsa, Oklahoma, and um, we stayed in this little
area called East Village. It was literally like a block
in this loft and airbnb loft and above pizza place
and across the street from a bar. And I'll bet
you have some people to think. Yeah, these people like
took us in as family. It was like literally every day,
(01:50):
you know, for ten days late. We're out there two
days early, so for like two weeks they were like,
what's going on? You know, where's this baby? So I
want to thank I've just been which you would love
to do. This cocktail bar right up your alley. It
sounds like you said cocktail bar. Yeah, And not only
do they make like fresh you know, fresh ingredients, but
they don't have like a thing of cucumber sliced stuff.
(02:11):
They cucumber as needed and you know the jalapeno you
would have. They were doing it right there. So Jamie
and Nate and Nicole and Ian the chef at I've
just been. It was the stuff you should know. Man.
Oh yeah. He came out and he was like, is
it who I think it is? How fortuitous? How fortuitous?
And then uh, East Village Bohemian Pizzeria. We stayed above
(02:33):
this place and they were great. Did the smell drive
you nuts all the time? But we ate a lot
of people. Uh So Pat there and my boy Max,
Max and I really hit it off. We're like genuine
life pals now. Uh and he at the end I
go to leave and I just give him a letter
saying thank you and here's my contact info. And then like, ps,
(02:54):
by the way, I have a podcast. He's an ornithologist,
he has his master's, but he's not doing that right
now out you know, he's running this pizza point and
just a really smart guy. Was like, I think you
might like this podcast. I do. He comes up and
tells me afterwards, this is like our parting words. He
was like, dude, your chuck. It's like really I had
a weird like thing. He said, I knew that you
(03:16):
seem familiar, but I didn't want to say anything, like
even watched the TV show. Oh wow. So Max was like,
that's probably why I didn't want to say anything. Yeah,
he didn't want to bring it up. So huge thanks
to those guys. And then um our caseworker Jessica Um
also a stuff you should know fan. That is amazing
because at the end of our first call, like a
(03:38):
month ago, she went, all right, we've got business done.
I have something I have to admit. It's like I'm
a huge man man. So it was weird. It was
like the stuff you should Know nation sort of caring
for me. Yeah, and all of the people like you.
You put a picture of Ruby rose up. Yeah, and
like broke the internet. It was it was people love
the new Bores. Well yeah, but people love Chuck's newborn.
(04:00):
But you know it could have been a puppy and
probably gotten. Don't think I don't do that was very sweet. Yeah,
so that meant a lot to me. But Jessica and
her two sons, Hugh and Henry, I know they are
listeners to They are awesome boys. And she really took
care of us, So I'm glad it worked out. Like man,
three weeks in Tulsa, it was a weird and stressful
(04:20):
and but it sounds wonderful. Yeah, good start though. Yeah,
I mean we were in there. Emily helped deliver this baby,
and I was in the man zone right behind. I
am so proud of you guys. Yeah, I'm so happy
for you guys. I also want to say Jerry is
not allowed to talk. Jerry feels the exact same way. She's, well,
we could take the duck table today maybe, Jerry, how
do you feel? Yes, yeah, she agreed. She just spelled
(04:45):
out on the speaking spelled him anyway. This is not
gonna become the New Baby Show. Um, she will probably
disappear from uh your lives, but just know that we're
all doing great and thank you for the support. Good
all right, yep, nice job, Chuck, thanks man, congratulies, Thank you, sir.
Welcome to Stuff you should Know from House Stuff Works
(05:08):
dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark.
There's Charles W. Chuck Bryant, and Jerry, which means it's
time for listener mail. Oh wait, wow about that. I'm
brain to start. That's why we leave that in there.
(05:30):
Do you want to yeah, or maybe I should just
read listener mail. We can go home. Okay, it's a
build your own episode. Yeah, it's a mad Lives, just
fill it in. I'm profiling, Yeah, styling and profiling. I'm
pretty excited. Are you styling and profile? Well this is
a great that's a different thing this yeah, okay, I
(05:51):
think that has to do with um, like photography. No, thanks,
styling and profile and just means you're living large. Yeah,
you're fashionable and oh gotcha. Yeah, no, this is different
and this is a grabst article, which is the mark
of quality as we all know it is. It's refreshing
(06:11):
to see and it is Um, we should just say
right off the bat, profiling is a super divisive topic.
Oh yeah, um, there are many ways to look at it,
and all they make sense sometimes on both sides. It's
a tough one. Yeah, so that's my cadiat. It's divisive.
So um. One thing that Grabster immediately points out is like,
(06:36):
not all profiling is profiling, like you think of Sure,
we're going to talk about all the different ways, right,
There's plenty of accepted forms of profiling. And the first one,
um is the standard all points bulletin or be on
the lookout, right, that's the kind that no one has
a problem with. No one does because that you you
(06:56):
know what that is. That's uh silver Toyota to come
on with spy today and white male in his mid
forties with spiky hair and uh sort of chubby with
a big gross gray black beard has committed a crime
and he's wearing cargo shorts and flip flops. Oh, I
see you're describing yourself profiler, but you put in their
(07:20):
white male. And the reason that's what I am, the
reason why people don't have a problem with this is
twofold one. A crime has already been committed. Yeah, okay,
I committed a crime. So the police work is finding
a perpetrator that has already committed a crime. And secondly,
that profile is based on eyewitness accounts descriptions of the person.
(07:44):
That's right, So that profile is being used to to
track down a specific person. Has nothing to do with
anybody else. Who's white, has nothing to do with anybody else,
who drives a silver Tacoma, has nothing to do with
any of that jazz. It's just this guy is suspected
of having committed this crime, and he looks like this.
(08:07):
Yeah you hear you see it on the news every night. Yes,
you know it's not just cops that use this. The
news will say the suspect is, you know, wearing a handsome,
checkered Oxford button down, whispy hair, and white, straight teeth. Exactly,
so they're describing you. Oh you think my teeth are nice?
(08:29):
I didn't say that. I said they were white and straight.
That's nice if that's what you're into. This is coming
from a guy who just found out he's about to
have to lose his front tooth all over again. Start over. Yeah, man,
that sucks. Which I know there are some fans out
there that are laughing. Aaron Cooper, that toothless Chuck is
coming back in the house for It's it's really just him. Yeah,
(08:51):
he's the only one whould be jerky enough to laugh
at that. That kind of misfortune, you know, I know,
I'm sorry to bring that up. I'm just still reeling
from that discovery. It stinks. You think you get an
implant and it's for life, Yeah, especially when they sell
you a lifetime implant. Yea, yeah, exactly, alright. So, uh,
(09:12):
like you said, including descriptions and skin color is not
controversial in this case. No, it's in. Everybody from the
FEDS to the local police are okay with that. Yeah,
they're all in on it, and and not just completely
like everybody's like, yeah, this is fine, this makes sense. Sure,
not a thing that's right. The next one is psychological profiling.
(09:34):
And this is when you don't have a lot of
physical evidence or you don't have an eyewitness, and you're
trying to fill in the blanks and make some good
guesses billy blanks based on I remember that guy. Uh,
some good guesses based on like the crime scene or
just the circumstances of the crime. Yes, again, a crime
has already taken place, and you're trying to figure out
(09:54):
who solved it, and you're taking salt who committed it.
You're trying to figure out who's gonna solve it, all right,
all right, which you figure out the same moment when
as you do when you figure out who committed it.
It's interesting in mind bending, Right twice you've jumped to
the end of something. It's so weird. I don't know
what that means. I think you know what it means. Uh,
(10:17):
sometimes they are vague. But wait, I hadn't finished my thought. Okay,
I didn't mess it up that bad. Let me go
back and finish. Um. The point is it's drawn from
available evidence. Yeah, clues, clues that you're bringing together to
try to draw them up an idea of who did
this right exactly? Okay, So sometimes it can be vague,
(10:39):
but if you watch TV and movies, um, it is
probably not how it really goes down, but it's super
specific when you see it in fiction, right, you know,
like I think this, uh as a man who was
beating as a child and he probably lives alone or
Sherlock Holmes was really good at that kind of thing.
So a good point of Sherlock Holmes. Yeah, that's good stuff. Uh.
(11:03):
Did you know he was a morphine and cocaine addict? Yeah,
well I guess you need both in like the original stories? Really? Yeah?
Oh like in the books. Wow, not the real guy, right,
as I think, Yeah, are you sure you're not just
thinking of Robert Downey Jr. I mean I've read the
(11:23):
Originals and he like does he shoots morphine in it?
And and Watson is not very happy with the whole thing.
Yeah he's straight edge. No he's not straight edge, but
he doesn't he's not a junkie, you know. But he
didn't care. He was like Watson washed my toes. I
can alright, moving on to predictive profiling. Well, yeah, this
(11:49):
is where it starts to get a little messy. Yeah,
I can get a little controversial. Even psychological profiling is
a little controversial. I have to say, chuck, like, it's
not a proven, tried and true thing. It's as much
a guessing game is anything else. Um, But it's not
nearly still as controversial as predictive profiling, because now you're
trying to say, these people will probably commit a crime,
(12:14):
right not not not? Civil rights are it issue? Big time?
Big time? Um. Police officers do great work. Ideally they're
not just reacting to committed crimes, but they are um
driving around the neighborhood looking for a suspicious person that
might be about to commit a crime, to prevent crime,
(12:35):
to prevent a crime, which is stuff to do. You know,
it's right place, right time in most cases. And you
use the word ideally right ideally okay, yes, Um, So
even when this happens, this Supreme Court is roundly um
sided with police officers. UM as profiling for justification. So
it's legally speaking, Okay, it's on the books. It's on
(12:58):
the books. So so give an example of the kind
of profiling that's okay to be used. UM, the one
of the articles. Great. UM, let's say you're in uh,
South Florida and you're you're traveling up and you're in
a it's four a m. And you're in a rented
(13:18):
black suv with tinted windows, and you have the spare
tire in the back seat removed. UM, I'm sorry, it's
removed from the trunks area. It's in the backseat, just
sitting in the back seat. Might be might be a
drug trafficker, right, And the cop is basing this on
something like, um, a profile, Yeah, but a profile based
(13:42):
on previous experiences with other drug dealers in the same area.
Because that's a really big one right there. Like UM.
One of the things for using profiles successfully is it
has it's it has it has to be over a
certain period of time and associated with a certain place.
So you use Miami and say Miami in right, if
(14:07):
you saw that person and you would say, well, this
is probably a cocaine trafficker based on all the other
dealings with cocaine traffickers who who used the same transportation
m O. Yeah, and we should point out the tires
removed because you can then hide the drugs where the
spare tire went, and then that's why the tires in
the back seat. Yes, so these are red flags. But
(14:28):
if you're like in um Wyoming in two thousand fifteen
and you read an article about how that held true
in Miami, that is not necessarily a justifiable transference of
profiling because it exists in a different time, in a
different place. That's so, like you said, this can be
(14:48):
a this can be high level policy, UM, it can
be unofficial policy. It can be just merely experienced as
a police officer. That's something you've can countered from time
to time and basically to determine if this profile justifies
a search warrantless search, that is, in other words, you
(15:10):
haven't gone to the judge and as applied for a
warrant and had them review it and all that stuff
or rubber stamp it, which we'll get to. UM, it's
got a stand up in court, right, and so you
gotta be careful as a cop. You do. Um, you
have to have what's called an articulable suspicion, which was
established by a nineteen case or Supreme Court ruling Terry
(15:33):
versus Ohio. And the Supreme Court said, and this is
actually from a Matt ti ab Um article. It's really
really worth reading. It's called Why Baltimore Blew Up. It
was in Rolling Stone like a month or two ago.
It's a very good article. Um. But he talks about
this Terry case led to what it called Terry stops.
(15:54):
Whereas if a cop has a suspicion that they can
put into words, meaning it's not just a hunch, right, um,
that somebody is is either just committed a crime or
going to commit a crime, that that is probable cause
and it's bounds for as search. Yeah, and here's a
(16:14):
had a great example here, like let's say the cop
and court would say this the suspect of pure nervous
made several contradictory statements. In the back seat, I saw
a shoebox full of old film canisters, which drug carriers
commonly use. The car smelled like air freshener spray, which
is used to cover up the smell of drugs, and
I spotted them driving slowly up and down a block
(16:34):
that I know is frequented by drug dealers. That's called
good police work in court. Right, that's called like a
prosecutor's dream cop. Yeah. Um, and if you if you
go back and you notice all of that stuff, all
of these things are based on. So a block that
he knows to be frequented by drug dealers, thirty five
millimeter canisters. Maybe he read a Police Benevolent Association newsletter
(16:59):
article about that. Um, all of this stuff together, um
becomes what's called cumulative similarities. And supposedly a Florida Highway
patrolman named Bob Vogel is the first guy to put
this down on paper. He was very controversial, which is,
you take all of these different things and put them together,
and you can form a profile, and you can use
(17:21):
that to pull somebody over and then you know, eventually
search their car if you're a Florida Highway patrolman. Right, So, um,
you've got you've got all of these. Uh. You have
the terry stops, which are used for broken windows policing
and just for pulling people over, but they require an
articulable suspicion. But they can be based on where called
(17:45):
cumulative similarities, which is a profile either like that your
police department is saying be on the lookout for people
driving with their spare tire in the backseat, um at
this time of night. So far, this has all been
upheld by the Supreme Court. That's right. But there's a
very very fine line um that is frequently crossed, and
(18:11):
we will talk about how that runs a foul of
the Constitution right after this. All right, Josh, before we
(18:33):
took a break, you mentioned something called the Constitution, and
there are a couple of amendments that come into play
when you're talking about search and seizure, probable cause, profile ancure,
and they are the fourth and fourteenth Amendments. The fourth
reads and whole the right of the people to be
secure in their persons. The JFK I went into him
(18:56):
Winston Churchill. Sure, it's both houses papers and effects against
unreasonable searches and seizures shall not be violated, and no
warrant shall issue, but upon probable costs, supported by oath
of affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched
and the persons of things to be seized. So there's
some big words in there. That's right, big, big like
(19:18):
money words like Uh, it's protection against unreasonable searches and seizures,
which means, as far as the Supreme Court's concerned, some
cops just can't say I'm gonna push you up against
the wall and pat you down for no reason whatsoever. Yeah,
Or I'm gonna pull you over for no reason, and
I'm gonna search your car on the side of the
(19:40):
road for no reason. Um, does not happen, right of course?
Not sure? So, Um, that's the Fourth Amendment, right, And uh,
there's another big term in there. It's called probable cause,
like you have to have And if a lot of
people say that that versus Ohio ruling is just too
(20:02):
broad in articulable suspicion, like what is that you know? Um?
But even still there's there's so there has to be
some sort of probable cause. And a lot of the times,
as we'll see, it's just from uh, some something out
in plain side or something like that. But there's a
big struggle over what constitutes probable cause. But the point
(20:26):
is the Fourth Amendment says you have to have probable
cause or else it's an unreasonable search. That's right. And uh,
a police officer in most cases has to go get
a warrant for like the search of a home or something. Um,
And there's a whole issue of rubber stamping warrants these
days of course that like the judge may not even
really review that. It's just a formality. Or for anybody
(20:47):
who's watched enough Law and Order episodes, all you have
to do is go, I smell pot. Do you smell pot?
Wink wink, and then kick the door in. Yeah, exactly,
because that's you can't prove that the cop didn't think
you smell pot exactly. You know, was the threat of perjury,
of perjuring himself on the stand. But I imagine at
least as far as like Briscoe and Green are concerned,
(21:09):
they're hoping that they're gonna find such gang buster overwhelming
evidence that everybody's gonna forget about the fake smell of pot. Um. So,
there was actually a case which relates to probable calls
called the US v. Sokolow that made it all the
way to the Scotus And um, did you read about
(21:29):
that case? I did? It's um it was well that
was when the ruling was right. Yeah, so what happened
was the d A arrested a guy at the Honolulu
airport found over a thousand grams of cocaine and his
carry on. It was a key, he had a kilo
and he paid uh. They the agents knew all this
going into it. This is why they arrested him. He
(21:50):
paid bucks for round trip tickets with a roll of
twenty dollar bills. He traveled under a name that did
not match the name under which is telephone was listed. Um.
He was originally going to Miami, and in this because
lad flag at the time, he only stayed Miami for
(22:10):
two days, even though a round trip flight from Honolulu
takes twenty hours, so a very quick trip, and the
others he was almost flying as long as he was there.
In Miami, he met up with a man named Tony Montana.
Apparently he appeared nervous and he did not check his baggage,
and the district court denied motion to suppress the evidence,
(22:33):
said it was justifiable. The Court of Appeals disagreed and
overturned that, and then eventually it went to the Supreme
Court and they said no, it's okay because they had
what was quote a totality of evidence. So Here's the
thing though, the thing that makes that so groundbreaking and nowadays,
I mean we were raised under so clow right, it
seems like this is just the norm. But it was
(22:55):
a ground break in case of the time, because nothing
none of that. It's not against the law to pay
your plane ticket with cash, It's not against the law
to not check your bags at the time. It wasn't
against the law to travel under an assumed name. Yeah,
and I don't think at the time it was against
a law to go to Miami just for two days, right, exactly,
None of this is against the law. And so if
(23:16):
you if if you just followed the strict interpretation a
law up to that point there was they couldn't bust
this guy, even though when they busted him they found
a kilo of coke, like they knew they would in
his bag. Um, there wasn't enough there. In the Supreme
Court said, you know what, we we think that when
you put all that stuff together, there is enough there.
Now what constitutes that totality? Is it two pieces of evidence?
(23:39):
Is that one thing? Um? You know, how much does
it take to profile? But what they were saying in
so Colo was, yes, the the stuff that you've seen
from other proven criminals applied to somebody else who you
don't yet fully know as a criminal, is enough for
you to bust them and see if you're right. Yeah. Again,
(24:02):
it's not like the groundbreaking He didn't go straight to jail.
They looked in his bag, yes, but it's do you
have the right to look in the bag? That is
what it comes down to. Yeah, and they were saying
that there. The Supreme Court interpretation is this stands up
to the Fourth Amendment. Yeah, and I met the guy
went to Miami for two days, gets your civil rights goodbye?
Uh So with the fourteenth Amendment UM it states in
(24:25):
part that no State shall make or enforce any law
which will abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of
the U. S H. I think everybody wants the Kennedy
voice against U. I think any time you read amendments
from the Bill of Rights, you have to do it
like that. Nah shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty,
or property without due process of law, nor deny to
(24:47):
any person within its jurisdiction equal protection of the laws.
So this one applies. You might say, well, we've got
the fourth we don't need. The fourteenth fourteen says, look, man,
you can't just bust somebody without this, again, due process
of law. And we have a due process of law.
And what the Supreme Court did with cases like Soklo
(25:08):
and with cases like Terry versus Ohio, UM, is they
said profiling is part of the due process of law.
That's right. So one thing that they have gone back
to again and again and again and again is that
if race is factored in and almost any circumstances, there
(25:29):
are circumstances that is where racial profiling is allowed in
police work. But for the most part, if you're basing
your suspicions of criminal wrongdoing on race largely or in part,
then that is not That runs a foul of the
fourth and the fourteenth amendments, and you're not allowed to
(25:50):
do that. Yeah. The grabs Her points out that cops,
unless you are have an a p b out on
a Hispanic mail or a black male, then you are
supposed to be color blind as a cop. Exactly you're
supposed to be. So you know, um, the Eric Garner
case to Michael Brown case, um, all of these cases
(26:12):
where you know black mails were basically stopped from either
doing a petty offense or just stop based on suspicion
because they were black in their neighborhood. UM. It prompted
the executive branch to release a new set of guidance,
like an updated set of guidelines for racial profiling, and
(26:33):
they were they basically spelled out examples. UM I posted
to it on the podcast page for this episode, but
they spelled out examples for when that when it's appropriate,
and they said if it's an all points bulletin for
any police yes, um, if you're traffic or if you're
patrolling and looking for criminals and you're basing it on race,
(26:57):
absolutely not allowed. But they said they gave an example
where like, um, if for example, you are looking for
somebody who carried out a hit on a gang leader,
and you know there's this rival gang and this rival
gang is probably the ones who carried out this hit,
and every member of this rival gang is Hispanic, that
(27:20):
you could use that as part of the profile and
searching for your suspect. It just makes sense in that case, right,
because I don't look for the little old white lady
right exactly because it's that specific. But you wouldn't cast
a dragnet over all Hispanics. It would be Hispanic men
related to this gang. You see what I'm saying. I
think the lesson here is get the little old white
(27:41):
lady to do the hit. It's been done before, and
you're golden. It has been done before, which is one
of the one of the problems with racial profiling is
it's distracting. Yeah, you know, we'll get to that. But
that's definitely true. Um. And you know when you watch cops,
it's not always like it's sometimes that I will see
(28:03):
on the TV show they will pull over. They'll stop
a white kid, like suburban white kid that's in a
bad neighborhood, because they'll be like, well, he's he didn't
belong here. He's probably buying drugs because this is a
street where people buy drugs. There's a crackhouse down there.
And this guy is from the county. Uh, you know,
the white suburban county out in the suburbs. Let's pull
(28:24):
him over. That's racial profile. That's the same same thing
but different. Well it's the same thing, yeah, but you
know what I mean. Um, all right, so let's talk
about probable cause analysis. This is good. There's, um, during
a traffic stop, there's there's several things a cop can do,
and each one requires different kinds of cause in order
(28:44):
for it to be legal. Um. Yeah. Again, they aren't
supposed to just pull you over for no reason. They're
not supposed to. You're supposed to fit some sort of
either you broke a traffic law or you fit a
profile that that has been agreed upon. Is okay. Yeah,
But a cop can pull over for and again we're
(29:06):
not knocking police officers hard work, and mostly they do
great work. But a cop can pull someone over for
anything and say, like when you made that turn, you
swung a little too wide, or you hit that yellow line,
and um, so I'm suspicious that you're drunk, like you know.
(29:27):
Like that, you can almost invent a reason to pull
someone over and under any circumstances. So let's just start
with that. When you pull over a car, UM, Supposedly,
to pull someone over legally, you need to have witnessed
a violation. UM. Or you can run the plates and
see if their cars stolen or if there's a warrant
out for the owner. That's a big thing you see
(29:48):
on cops all the time. Um. And the cop can
make a stop as long as they can describe specific
factors that fit the profile. Right car, car full of
black kids. Not okay to just pull that car over,
not for that reason. But if they say, like I
saw um smoke coming out the windows. Um, they were
(30:10):
driving erratically and it smelled like pot smoke from the road,
then that is a reason number two when you go
to a question the suspect. That's moving things up a notch. Uh.
You don't have to get a ticket when you get
pulled over. You might just get questioned if you seem suspicious. Um,
and they can you know, they'll shine that light in
(30:31):
the car and they'll look at everything that they can
see without actually searching the car. Yeah, and that well
within their right what's called plane view exactly. So if
you have like a bag of pots sitting out on
the front seat with you and the cops sees it,
that just opened your entire car and your person up
to a search. Yes, and you that means you are
super high because now now there's probable cause. But if
(30:54):
you have long hair and you have an open half
gallon of ice cream next to you, still not enough
my racist suspicions, But that still should not be enough
to give him probable cause to search your car. Well,
I got profiled in Texas. Me and my best friend
Brett many years ago after college did a big out
west trip for two months, and the cops said he
(31:16):
didn't put He said he pulled us over because I
didn't have my seat belt on. Um. Why he really
pulled us over us because we were too scruffy looking
guys with tattoos and beards in a Volkswagen van. Um.
And he searched the van. He asked if he could,
and we said he could, and he searched the van
for like an hour on the side of the road.
Long story short, chucked in five years, five hard ones. No,
(31:41):
we didn't get taught with anything, and we got away,
and he basically was mad at us that he wasted
his time and the last thing he said was to
get out of Texas. So and I said, I'm trying
to sir. But the point is that that cop asked
you if he could search your car, right he did,
and that if you give consent then you are waving
your Fourth Amendment rights. But you don't have to give consent.
(32:04):
Not many people know this, and there's some states that
make the cop tell you you are allowed to refuse
the search of your car, um, but not all states do.
I've never heard it either, um. Instead, the cop just says,
can I search your car in the most intimidating voice possible,
and most people will just fold like a house of cards, um,
(32:25):
because they're scared of the cop or whatever. Even if
they do have something in there, they're not gonna be like, Nope,
you're not allowed to search the car. So the point
where the cop asks if he can search the car
is usually in the absence of something that nothing in
plain sight, but also that cops suspicious suspicions are raised,
(32:45):
but he just can't quite prove it. So I'll ask
you if you can search your car. If you say no,
the cop can say, well, I'm I'm going to detain
you temporarily. Right Basically, I can go, I will wait
it out, I can get a war it I'm gonna
search that car, right, Okay. If he wants to get
a warrant, that's different. Like what he's doing now is
(33:06):
trying to do everything he can to search your car
without having to go to the trouble of getting a
warrant without probable cause, like seeing a bag of pot
in the front seat. Right time was that they could
detain you for up to like ninety minutes while they
called the canine unit out. And the canine unit has
been shown to if it the canine unit sniffs around
(33:27):
your car, that's not an unreasonable search. And if the
canine smells something or indicates that there are drugs present,
then that does provide probable cause for a full search
under the Fourth Amendment. Right they change that, yeah, Um.
In April this past April, the Supreme Court had decision
that said, now you really can't make people wait around
(33:48):
while the drug dog comes out. They're like, we're not
a post to that, but the point of a traffic
stop is to promote and encourage traffic safety, not to
cast a drug drag. That for drug couriers. Um, and
you you cannot detain people without a reasonable suspicion to
(34:09):
wait for the drug dog to come out. If they
tell you can't, they you're not allowed to search their car.
That's good. I wonder if it had anything to do
with um. If you look up online, there are ways
that cops can make a drug dog signal basically by
how they're handling the dog. And there's a lot of suspicion,
and they'll play him side by side, like you see
(34:29):
this cops doing it, right, And if you see this cop,
watch this little thing he does. Then the dog barks.
And basically there was a lot of speculation that bad
cops would use the dog tail. Well not that, but yeah,
essentially making the dog signal a false alert just to
give them reason. Well, the dog barked, So now I
can I can search your car or and maybe it
(34:51):
all started because I meant to bring this up a
second ago. Suspicion can be now they seem nervous, right like,
everyone's nervous when a cop pulls him a sure, even
if you haven't done anything. It's just nerve wracking. It's
like white coat blood pressure. I like a lot of
people's blood pressure is high at the doctor because they're
nervous about, you know, being at the doctor. There's someone
(35:11):
standing at my window with a gun, right Like, it's
nerve wracking. Yeah. So the Supreme Court said, no, you guys,
you have to have a reasonable suspicion to detain somebody
on the side of the road that they've committed another crime.
It can't just be I'm pulling you over. You have
to wait for ninety minutes while the drug dog comes
out so I can bust you or try to bust
(35:31):
you or whatever. That was. That was a big deal
that they came up with that. Yeah, we didn't in Texas.
We didn't have the drug dog come out, but we
were I felt like we were on the side of
the road for an hour while he dug through that
entire van. Um just you could tell he was he
really wanted to find something. Yeah, all right, let's open
(35:51):
the cannib worms, my friend. Racial profiling, it's a big,
big deal in this country. It's a problem, and and
um let's talk about it. Okay, that's good. Uh. So
that is basically it's a form of predicted profiling, uh
where one of, if not the only factor, is skin color.
(36:12):
Right that like, um oh, let's say that, um, Mexican
people are way more um prone to sell meth. So
let's go hang out at that Hispanic neighborhood. Right, But
there's a couple of things wrong with that, um, and
that is racial profiling. Some people actually defend it, saying, well,
(36:38):
if you look at prison statistics, Hispanics are far more
likely to be imprisoned for drug crimes than say, white people,
So that makes sense, right, right, Okay, the other saying
right right, I'm playing along here. The other side of
the coin is that you can use those same statistics
(36:58):
to point to the idea that Hispanics and blacks are
disproportionately targeted for drug busts than other people, right, and
so the same This is an Ed points out. This
is one of the problems with this debate is both
sides used the same statistics differently to prove their point. Yeah.
(37:19):
Another thing he points out is that people that say
some people will say that it is institutionalized racism and
its harassment of minority straight up. People who defend against
it say, cops harassed criminals, and if those criminals happen
to be minorities t s. That's not our fault. And
I think that's just the reality of the world we
(37:41):
live in. Even further, there's people who say, yes, racial
profiling is the thing, and it's an effective tool of
law enforcement. Sorry, welcome to reality. Um. Those people usually
have their arguments demolished pretty quickly, including by professionals. I
read this um, this interview, or well an article about
(38:01):
the former chief chief of police of Palo Alto around
San Francisco area, and um, he also grew up as
an Oakland cop, and he was talking about that kind
of racial profiling that you were where they would just
sit out and like, um, high crime neighborhoods and pull
over anybody white. And they were doing like that for
the same reasons, and he was saying it almost never worked.
(38:24):
He said that, um, they also would have like long
dragnets on stretches of highway and they would target Hispanic
people in like low riders, and he said, almost never worked.
And he said that it's ineffective. Right, it's also lazy policing,
because he said the better alternative is to forget who
who's what color, but just watch for somebody leaning in
(38:47):
a car that's just pulled over under the curb, or
somebody making furtive moment movements. Right, look for behavior that
is actually linked to crime. Not there's a white person
in a black high crime neighborhood, so therefore their there,
um they're buying drugs, or even even worse than that,
there's a black person who lives in a high crime neighborhood,
(39:09):
they must be a drug dealer. Let me go stop
and frisk them, um that that is just lazy policing.
It's it's shorthand policing. Whereas if you look for actual
criminal behaviors you're going to have, you're gonna be far
more successful in busting the bad guys. But even worse
than it being like lazy policing and ineffective in a
(39:29):
lot of ways. This guy pointed out like, and I've
seen this in many different places. If you want to
encourage mistrust and animosity toward the police, scoop up every
member in the community and take him to jail just
on the off chance that you might find something that sticks.
If you want to set a town off or any
(39:49):
population off, do that for a few years and see
what happens. And that's what we've been seeing time and
time again. It's systematic. Yes, it's systematic targeting and then
a systematic reactions. Uh. And I've mentioned cops a lot.
If you're out there saying, well, yeah, but on cops
every time they pull over that's a shady black guy
(40:10):
in the neighborhood he has something on him and gets arrested.
Or that white kid in the bad neighborhood he's there
to buy drugs, it's a TV show that's edited. Right.
They don't show you the twenty five stops where there
is no crime because it would not be a fun
TV show exactly, all right. So I think people use
that as like dummies use that as proof sometimes, like
watch Cops Man every single time, right, Like yeah, exactly right,
(40:33):
Like all all matthe Users are scrawny and white. So
if you see a scrawny white guy, Matthewuser, that's right.
Or marathon runner, right, you know. Uh So obviously there
can be uh rogue cops, racist cops that are doing
their thing on a on a singular level or with
their partner. But it becomes a real real problem. That's
(40:57):
a problem. It becomes a super real problem when it
is part of the system. Uh. In which was the
case with the New Jersey State Troopers in the late nineties,
they did a ten year study and found out that
eighty percent of all traffic stops were minorities over a
ten year period, and they found that there was a
quote macho elitist culture within the state trooper ranks end
(41:21):
quote and um. Basically, even though they officially said racial
profiling isn't right, there was a system in place where
veterans would really coach and teach the younger cops, like
this is how we're doing it, and they were basically outed. Um.
The authorities assigned federal monitors to those troopers, and evidently
(41:45):
by two thousand six they had um a report suggested
they had eliminated that profiling completely. Yeah, which is good
if that's the case. You know, and I'm sure it is.
New Jersey state troopers are intimidating. You ever seen those guys.
They're the ones that look like the military uniforms, which
is a whole other issue altogether. Well, I mean not
(42:05):
like M sixty, like like the dress, blues, boots and
all that. Um. It turns out twenty two states have
lawns that band racial profiling of motorists, which is great
until you think that that also means that states don't.
It's kind of weird if you ask me. Um and uh.
(42:27):
I found a study also from Illinois that found that
in Illinois, black and Hispanic drivers were two times likelier
to be stopped and searched, but white drivers were two
times likelier to have contraband on them. Weird, not only weird,
it's it's startling. How like it's it's not effective like there,
(42:50):
it's not leading to stopping crime, yeah, which is sort
of the point. Well. And then another very controversial a
bout of racial prof aisling that this country went through
came after September eleven, of course, and in the aftermath
of that, you would remember every every month or two
you'd hear about someone who sometimes seeks who aren't even Arab,
(43:14):
would get kicked off of like a plane or something
like that because they made the pilot nervous just being there. Yeah,
or T s A would would like pat down. Um.
Just proportionately more Arab people than white people. Um. And
now supposedly they based it on your behavior rather than
your race, so they're not rachel profiling any longer, supposedly,
(43:36):
and it is. I have to say, I haven't heard
of one of those cases in a while, but it
seemed like for a while we're hearing about it all
the time. Yeah, I think there was a heightened sense
of everything back then. Of course, right after. But so
this guy who used to manage the Ben Gurion Airport
in Um Israel, Rafael Ron, he pointed out that that
was the exact opposite of what you want to do yeah,
(43:58):
he said, the worst tech in the history of this
airport was carried out by Japanese in the early seventies.
And he said, if we're focusing on an ethnic group,
then we're we're potentially missing someone that's about to do
something bad, right, which is exactly what happened in nine
two at that airport. Three members of the Japanese Red
Army walked in with machine guns and violin cases and
(44:19):
just opened them up and started opening fire on the
crowd and killed I think, um twenty six people. And
they were hired by the PLO. Pl O knew that
they could never walk into the the Israeli airport, but
the Japanese people would unnoticed. And so this guy is
saying the same thing like if you're really on the
lookout for your enemy, like again, watch for behavior, like
(44:42):
do actual police work. Don't just use this lazy shorthand stuff,
because it's gonna it's going to take off this entire
population and it's gonna cause in you to miss the
real crime. Well, yeah, you've got like it sounds like
a movie. Them the cops are at the airport and
they detained this, uh, this air of guy who's like
late for a business meeting. And then in the in
(45:03):
the same shot, the white dude who was a Timothy McVey,
just walks right behind them with the with the bomb
on his body. You realize you just described the subplot
to Airplane Too, did Yeah, remember Sonny Bono had the bomb.
It's a little mild mannered, weasily dude. Yeah, that's right.
(45:23):
And I think he walks through while they're jacking up
some like I think plo dudes. Maybe that was subconscious. Wow,
so that's a profiling tip of the iceberg. I would
call that. Oh, sure, there's we could do a series
of shows on this, I'm sure. Uh. And if you
want to know more about profiling in the meantime, uh,
(45:45):
type that word into the search bar of your favorite
search engine and I'm sure we'll bring up all manner
of terrible stuff. You can also type in the search
bart how stuff works dot com and it will bring
up this article by the Crabs or And since I
said grabs or time for a listener mail, I'm gonna
call this wee f us, which is short for water
(46:07):
enema from a water slide or from a slide. And
this is from Tiffany last name withheld, She says. Uh.
As a kid, I remember being a chubby eleven year
old girl excited for her first trip to Disney World
in the water park then known as Typhoon Lagoon, had
a brand new neon green with black polka up bathing suit.
It was all excited and UH to go down the Cowabunga,
(46:30):
a two fourteen foot tall water slide on a steep
sixty degree angle. They tell you to keep your ankles crossed.
But as a little chubby eleven year old girl, my
brain comprehended, but my little legs did not have the
strength for all two d and fourteen feet. Thank you
see where this is headed. After plumbing the bottom, immediately
knew something was not right. I clenched my thighs as
(46:50):
tightly as I could, pulling out the massive water slide wedgie.
Not two steps from exiting the slide, though, a different
type of waterfall began to trick al down my legs.
No matter how tightly I clinched, I couldn't stop it.
I waddled up to a gorgeous Australian teenager employee and explain,
I need a restroom right away. Uh, with a smug smile.
(47:11):
He pointed all the way to the other side of
the lagoon, which was a long walk. Just as I
entered the bathroom with all the force of the water
that had entered my body, it exited, and I single
handedly shut down a small portion of Disney that day.
As embarrassing as this was, I was more upset than
my new bathing suit was ruined. My parents were furious
(47:31):
because they had to show out fifty dollars for a
new one Toronto. I hope I didn't gross you out
too bad. I think of it as a cautionary lesson
for your listeners. Thanks for all your hard work. Um,
I hope to see you guys sometime in Detroit. And
hey October, Tiffany last name with eld. We're just gonna
call you Tiffany poopy pants. We're coming to Detroit in October, yes,
(47:56):
ostensibly ostensibly, and also we want to stay Detroit in
advance of us coming. We're sorry for all the jokes
we made about you. It'll all come home to roost.
See you in October. If you want to tell us
a gross story that happened when you were a kid, like, yeah,
don't just tell us something else and tweet to us
at s y s K podcast, join us on Facebook
(48:17):
dot com, slash stuff you Should Know, send us an
email to Stuff Podcast at how stuff Works dot com,
and join us out at home on the web Stuff
you Should Know dot com. For more on this and
thousands of other topics, is that how stuff Works dot com.
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