Stuff You Should Know

Stuff You Should Know

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May 5, 2020 58 min
Spartacus was a real dude. He led a slave revolt, and was pretty successful to boot. I'm Spartacus. You're Spartacus. We are all Spartacus. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com
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Welcome to Stuff You Should Know a production of iHeartRadio have stuff works, Hey I'm welcome to the PODCAST, I'm Josh Clark, there's Charles w chuck frying over there. It's just the two of us!

That's okay, because you're here your listener insert your first name after that, and this is Stuffyo, should that's right, Stanley, Kouber caddition sort of I went to go, watch that last night, Oh yeah, and then I was like wait.

I think that's really long. So I looked up the run time. I was like I'm not watching that so I've yet to see it yeah watch pass of glory instead.

What was that is that the one about Barry Lyndon now that was berry London, that's great to, but if you're gunning for early Kubrik, I would say killers kiss if you want to go super early and then Pas of glory, which is the other one he did with Kirk Douglas the World War. One trenchal warfare, film, that's Great Okay and Bary Lyndon, which is just a masterpiece when that Ryan O' Neil yeah boy. It's good yeah he's in one of my favorite movies of all time paper. Moon, that's right and one of my favorite movies, the main event.

What was that it was a rom com. He did as he played a boxer, upsit Barbra strisand. was she a boxer?

No okay, it was.

It was not great. I mean it was fine. It was one of the sens Rom coms Gatcha, but not one of my favorite movies by any stretches. Speaking of Rom coms, but mine is the wrong part and just the calm heavy on the com. Have you seen Eliza this lessengers sketch show on Netflix?

No. It is very good that how do I know that name, she's ks she's got them pretty big as a standup in the last couple years.

She if you havenat, discovered her yet you're, welcome she's, really great I'm looking her up now. H H is something I don't normally do. I don't think I recognize her okay. Well, she's got some standup specials that are definitely worth watching and then she just debuted season of a sketch comedy, show that's pretty good, definitely worth seeing have to check that out.

Ryan o'kneels not in it yet but, like I said, just one season, we're on Ta shout out live science by the way we used.

HOUSESTUFF works article on Spartacus and this great live science article on Sparticus, the real spartacus, not Kirk Douglas. I also read an article from a guy named Kenneth particus Kenneth P check CZ ECH like check the check republic. I guess okay, maybe that's where his family's from who knows, but he wrote an article back in the s about Sparti cause. That was very exhaustive. That was helpful and the there's also a history named Barry Straus, who I read some like interviews and articles from him to he's bit of a specialist on Sparticades, so shout out to those cats as well yeah. So the story is spartacus. If you've watched this the Cubrik film, it is not IMEAN. There are bits of truth in there, but is definitely not some real, truthful biopic of his life good movie.

But we're going to give you the real story of Sparticus's life, which is that of a an the leader of an uprising of slaves who said Rome we're not going to take it anymore.

No, we ain't going to take it.

That's right!

We're not going to take it in Y, listening room anits, the original title I think, and we met that guy.

Well, actually, we passed that guy backstage once member these nights right. What show was that Theu? Whatever show, I think it was Jeff Brobst Wasdn't it?

No! No, it was the whotever show with was it with.

Was that Martha Stewarts Daughter Yeah?

She has a first name: Alexus, elexus and Jennifer right, Jennifer and Alexis Wow. Yes, remember when were on TV every now and then yeah, we've Beyon, that we were on Jeff propes. Do you remember the Jeff Prop Sho? He was interviewing us and he zoned out so hard. I almost said like Jeffer, you, okay, while we were talking yeah and we used to occasionally we'd be on CNN, they would have us on to do like talking head stuff. Yes and yes, everyone just sort of stopped caring about us, it's Calld, we really p. well, we got really popular podcasting yeah and they just all said how well whatever we don't need those guys yeah.

That's okay, though no I don't want to be on CNN or any news network Wutt yeah we were on the solid Ed O'Brian show we were interviewed by Trastin Romonnshe's. Like super legit journalist, it was pretty so s, Jeff, prost right.

The tribe has spoken Yep and they said who else?

Isn't that what he said the tribe is spoken yeah and then he kow that candle he'd. Kick you in the seat of your pants on the way out, and you would think God, because what a relief to be kicked off that garbage show Mn. It was good, the first season or two. I think I think I did watch the FIRT couple of seasons, but you know I'm not going to Yuk someone'sm, there's, probably still survivor shows going on o Kno there are they, I think, the most recent season they brought together like past champions or past people who got kicked off one of the two and said WHO's going to win this time.

Yeah. I don't do the only one I do like that is topchef, which is still maintained its integrity after all these years and never became dumb and then for a little while I did that discovery had a show.

I cannot remember the name of it where it was like a post, apocalyptic scenario where they would put people in this area and like occasionally, they would send in these Mad Max type People Tho mess with them and take their stuff, and they had to build things and defend themselves God. What was that called? It was really awfulnwhere the people naked, because I can tell you the name of the show if they were naked.

I have watched more than one episode of naked, an Afrait I haven't. Do they just like, like blur out ther their the parts where their bathing suit covers no they're completely naked, and it's just shows dong out the whole time. Noit doesn't like the voyageer golden record is blurred out and the kind of the first thing that the ladies do is fashion some sort of eve like covering Gotca on her on her bits and the the men either do that or they're just like hey whatever the's the guy at the gym. That has a towel like over his shoulder, but not around his waistoh yeah, that guy that guy wearing tennis shoes with no socks, yes, Aka men who are proud of their genitils Dong out, so I'm guessing Sparta because is probably dawng out.

Oh sure he was wwhat. Are we back to Sparticaus night? You think yeah, okay, so Sparta Kiss was this guy? Who everyone knows the name of, and you may even know that he was a gladiator. Maybe you know that he led a slave revolt, but this guy was really nuanced, really detailed, and actually, even after a couple thousand years of history analysis, you know falling in and out of favor of different cultures that come and go.

He stands the test of time, pretty well, even after being draped in you know, a lot of people's hangups and, like you know, held up as a a prime example of the ideals of whatever group are revering him like even after you strip all that stuff away and look at the historical figure. He was still a pretty pretty interesting, an kind of upstanding guy. As far as leaders of slave rvolt go that's right and that's a good way to put it.

He was Thracian, which means he is from Thrace.

We don't know a ton about his early life because they just didn't bother recording the history of of nobody slaves in ancient Rome. Why would they?

It took him to do remarkable things for historians to take notice with their their quill and paper and the Romans at the time? This was an area the THRAC was in South East Europe, where they're always trying to subjugate this area of Europe and Fort Centry BC, and it was just it was just not a good scene. If you weren't sort of upper echelon, Roman at the time no and Thrace was I get the impression that it was not really one to live under Roman yoke, but I think I also have the impression that they were they were in league with the Romans, but it was kind of like one of those.

You know we can either we can either be an ally of yours or you can conquer us kind of thing, and so I think there was a bit of I tense truce and there was a I don't. I don't think any contemporary text about Sparti Kissis still around today.

Most of the earliest stuff we know about them - comes from at the earliest, the first century CE and he was living in the last century or the first century bce.

So people were writing about him a hundred two hundred years later, but one of the rone of those old text says that he wasn't born a slave and that he actually was a Thrasian soldier who was an ally who worked in the auxiliary or fought in the auxiliary for Rome. So he was a soldier under Roman Command at some point and they think that that he was drummed out of the army for some reason, unjustly this ancient author says and that that kind of led on this path to him becoming abandot and a criminal yeah, he was like the guy in the new star wars movies, which one which one the guy, that hat was a storm trooper and then said you know what I'm not a storm trooper anymore. I want to kill storm troopers, okay, I haven't I've, seen the whatis Irit one yeah, that's one, okay, so, but that was a that was like a side story right that wasn't one of the the actual cannon.

No, so the last Jed I was, they made three main ones, part of the cannon and then a star wars, fans.

You have words for all these things.

Rogue on was the one that was outside and then the Hansoa movie was outside and that outside cannon, just not part of the whatever the those movies, so rogue one is the one I'm thinking of that was really good yeah.

I enjoyed that one quite a bit. I the other ones. I don't think I've been able to make it through a single one. Yet Oh yeah yeah, I like him but they're star wars, movies. I don't I don't expect greatness. I just think they're kind of fun yeah I mean I love the first three yeah sure, but not the first three sequentaly. You know the first three that were released ever you like one through three sequentially or not squitcho yeah, good God. Talkng about a fan of menuce yeah is the best of the bunch all right. So He's like the storm trooper guy in these new movies. That is no longer a storm trooper and wants to kill storm troopers.

He gets captured at one point and he gets sold into slavery and Rome, and then there was this man that I love this article says a man referred to at times as Vacia.

I guess that's his name or maybe you just had a bunch of names, but the upshot is this: Guy had a gladiator school in Kapua about a hundred and twenty mile southeast of Rome and that's where spartacus was set to train to be a gladiator. Yes in Hawaii right and I feel like we should take a break and get our starwars fact straight and come back. Oh goodness. Okay, all right well be right back.

So when we left off Chuck Boba fat had left the army.

You know I'm not even going to do that to us.

Have you watched man Dalorian, no Hu, it's good the one with amys sodarris yeah. She is the Mandelorian she's in it though she gets to like hang out with baby Yoda. I think no, it's! She isn't and it's a you know. I love seeing her in anything, but it does take me out of the moment just a bit, but it's a fun show it's kind like the Eteem you'd like it. Oh well, yeah. I probably would like it. Then it's like a week to adventure of the week type of thing: okay, cool yeah, I M Ght. I might actually check that out. I've been looking for something new, I started OZARC and I'm like man. This is really dark.

Yeah. Where are you now fifth episode? I think a season, one okay, I darening burn through season one or anything.

No I've been taking it slow like that yeah mean you, like ve, been taken in small doses. Here there yeah, I think, I'm through like the first four of th, the latest season, okay and by the way, correction. I think it said it was like Hartwell.

It is like Altuna.

Okay, that makes way more sense, because I was thinking is that Alatuna Yeah Alatunas, you know wher alatunas hard wells O for dam is yeah Aliton, Ra hartwalls up near South Carolina, it's not at the same lake yeah because have friends. We have friends who have a place on Hartwell and I was like I don't recognize it, but then I thought I probably wouldn't recognize his about any. Like so same, I just kind of went with Hartwell Ias fine or there always atina yeah. I know that from what I learned. There was no such thing as a natural lake in the state of Georgia. It's right they're, all and most of them are from the Georgia Power Company Yeah. It's so creepy to me sometimes too, when you're swimming in a lake. If you start thinking about what's beneath your feet, it makes you want to get back on the boat. Sometimes you mean like a former town, yeah town or the Gords, or something yeah car, oh ow man.

How do we get so off track? Okay, so we're talking about spartecause, who has he left or was drummed out of the army, became a bandit, is captured, and when he's captured he's taken to that gladiator school that you talked about Ombi a man sometimes call this ca, sometimes referred to as Vadia, and the thing about gladiators is thanks to movies like cladiator or I don't know, other movies about cladiators airplane, the original airplane right.

You we have. This conception of gladiers is kind of like this awesome thing, but if you were living in Rome around the turn of the last two Millennia Go, you did not think of gladiators very highly. There were some that rose to incredible prominence like the Rock Star Sport Heroes. All mixed together of today, gladiator could rise to that level, but it was incredibly rare for the most part, they were criminals, prisoners of war, slaves and they were considered the lowliest of the low where the the owner, their owner. In this case, Vadia who owned sparticus basically said the only way for me to make money off of you is to make you fight for these gladiator battles and and either bed on you or license you or something like that, and that was it. But you were like, as far as the even the the cast of slaves went.

You were at the bottom if you were a gladiator yeah and you know gladiators if you've seen the movies it's almost always depicted as a fight to the death.

That's not necessarily the case you could kind of tap out or if they drew blood. Sometimes that would be the end, but if they drew blood, that might also be the indofview pre antibiotics either way you might end up dead, but it wasn't necessarily always a fight to the death and, like you said, sometimes they would.

If you were a great gladiator and a great warrior, they didn't know what your face looked like, but you had this cool mask that you w're identified by kind of like wrestling or something like that right or I guess the Luchalibred, the ones who right always had the mask yeah.

But I can't believe we did an episode on that so funny. It was a good one too, but you could be.

If you want a lot and you had a cool helmet, you could be a pretty big deal to the point where you might have slaves taking care of you and you might lead a bit of the better life right, but you're still owned by someone else. Yeah.

You were a slaveary prisoner of war, you ere criminal, and but when you were taken to gladiator school, it wasn't like you'ere just kept there and then you were thrown into the to the ring to fight like you were trained.

You were put on a diet, you were, you were basically put through boot camp and you were introduced to the specifics of certain types of cladiatorial combat and apparently there were a handful of different types and one type of gladiator only fought one or two other types of gladiators and the type that Spartacus was was a mermillo which meant that he fought with a helmet. A very long tall shield kind of like the Roman centurions will use and then a short sword called the Gladius and that's what he would have fought with.

But there were other kinds of gladiators too.

I ran across this super cool, one, the ready red ready, Arius and they would have a trident in a net and a dagger.

So you know like those glidators that like fought with a Nete, I think, if might have been a mad max or something like that, yeah, that's se, on an actual type of glad year that used to fight back in the day and again here in the twenty first century, we can sit there and think like wow. This is really interesting stuff, but you have to stop for a second and think these people were being forced against their will into fights to the death, sometimes in front of spectators for the sheer bloodlust of the crowds.

That was it, and you can't really forget that, because it really puts you in the mind of somebody like sparticus, who has been captured as prisoner, potentially unjustly according to an ancient text and being forced into this life of fighting sometimes to the death for the for the joy of the wealthy crowds. WHO came out to see everybody, that's right and that's why spartacus looked around one day and said guys we're here at gladiators university right - and I know that sounds super cool.

But I see where the end is for all of us and that is dying for the entertainment value of rich Romans.

And what do you say?

We get a group of us together, like maybe seventy of us.

We get the heck out of here and, let's, let's do it guys and they all said, that's a great idea. I don't want to go die in a ring, so they got together in seventy three BC. They hijacked a caravan that just happened to have a bunch of gladiator weapons and armor, and they said Hey. You know what we are: We're a little army troop, all of a sudden think about the luck that that took like they broke out.

They overpowered their guards with meat clevers that they stole from the kitchen and broke out and as they were breaking out, they ran across a supply truck of Gladiator, armor and weapons y feeling that was targeted. That was not the case. No, it happened to be coming in as they were leaving and they were like. Oh well, take this or else they encountered it on the road headed to the gladiator school. The timing was really fortunate.

Well, at any rate, they got all this gear and all of a sudden they were kidded up yeah and I think one of the people he was with with his wife this lady.

That sounds very interesting.

Like we said we don't know a lot about the actual historical record. We don't know her actual name, but PLUTARC was a writer who wrote that glspartacus's wife was a prophetess who was possessed by ecstatic frenzies that were part of the worship of the God dionysis yeah, which you know you know. That means he she liked to party.

He did. That was the party cult for sure, and she apparently was one of the priestesses of this cult in Thrace. She was Thracan as well ecstatic FRENZIES, yeah I'll bet that was cool, but she, her name apparently, is just totally lost.

No one has any idea what her name is or what became of her. They assumed that she probably died alongside was sparticus, but she being a prophetess, a priestess apparently foretold his rise to power.

Even while he was a slave in the gladiator camp. Like she lived with him there, I guess, while he was sleeping one one night or day or whatever a snake coiled itself around his head and she was like well that doesn't happen every day and I'm pretty sure that Dionisis has something to do with this. So my husband's going to be pretty important at some point, but he's also going to have a very unfortunate end to that. The snake foretells and it turns out she was right, that's right and then she said so I'm going to go, have an orgy with all these people and drink some wine with some goat goat fellows.

So these these dudes, this little kind of for lack of a better term battalion. All of a sudden. They start to train for combat theyre near Mountpesuvius, which don't don't be afraid of the volcano everyone. This is about a hundred years before that happened. Isn't that creepy, though, to think like this historic thing took place and they were tromping all over Vesuvius to have. They had no idea what was coming just like a century from then I don't know. I think it's amazing, but Mat Butsuvi sat this time.

What we're saying is it was lovely and it was lush and there was you could farm there. It was very fertile.

I was covered with vines and they were down there. Training and eventually Rome takes a little bit of notice, although they weren't seriously worried yet they were hiding out and they were training and one of his coleaders. This Guy Chrixis, who kind of factors in is one of his big coheads of state. I guess yeah and Oanamaose, I think, m onamais.

No, I think I had. In the first time there was like an extra syllable in there really yeah, but the that's. What you said at the second time sounds better. Well, we'll just stick to that: okay, they would go around and raid for supplies. They would recruit slaves eventually and we'll see later they got so popular that they could even get nonslace to join up in the rebellion and Rome was not Super Worri that they kind of heard about what was going on, but they were busy. They were fighting in Spain.

They were fighting creet. They were fighting in Southeast Europe and this little rag time group of former slaves. Wasn't that big of a deal?

No, it let'sso the fact that they were fighting elsewhere, like Spain and Crete. That meant that their greatest military leaders and those military leaders armies were away they weren't in Italy, and it, like you, said at the time they weren't taking spartakissing his runaway slave band seriously at all, but they did, you know, take enough notice that they sent a prater there in a prater is like a very high upelected official right under council, which is, I think, the highest elected official in Agnt Rom. So they were really super high up and actually they might have been laterals to the counsels, I'm not sure, but it was a very important person, but I get the impression that he was a very kind of low on the scale of important people because they sent him with a few.

A few Roman soldiers and said Hey when you get to vesuvius just recruit some locals to go fight this this band of runaway slaves and be back by dinner time. Please yeah! It was, you know, love the National Guard, not knocking them, but it kind of reminded me of you know, sort of sitting in the National Guard to take care of something rather than the Marines stormily beach. It's basically the story of John Rambo in first blood.

I trust me I thought of that more than buts rip, Brian Dennay, by the way, when, like last week, what how did I not hear that I think it's just sort of been under the radar with everything going on? Was it from Corona Virth?

Now, just I think he was like in his earlyes and just just passed away. Well, L Ip for sure hit was good. I definitely I definitely thought of Rambo a lot while I was reading this.

The difference is: was that Spartacus had a team to ait in his uprising and Rambo was of course, one man army in a team. If you will, but at any rate they didn't send the best of the best, because theywere all busy glabors little army.

They said you know what we're not even going to attack particus, we'll just block off the route up to Vesuvius, we're going to pitch our tents, we're going to hang out and get drunk and he's going to starve to death and that's kind of going to be the end of it. So we think yeah. You said Glaber Glaber is that prater his name is Claudias Glabor. He sounds like an anept kind of person that you would send to Take Care of O Sind Glabor. Exactly his name is just too close to glaven.

I think so so glaber said he yeah. It's exactly what you said. He posted a couple of guys on the road to Vasuvis the only road in or out up the mountain, and then the rest of the group is at Camp and so spartikis in his band.

Are they know that they can't get down this road but they're, also not about to starve at the hands of a guy named Glaber, so they actually fashione rope and rope ladder out of the vines that are growing up on Vesuvius and they climbed down the mountain to a different spot and then come up behind the the guys who are guarding the road kill them sneak into the Roman camp, kill all of them, while they're bathing and sleeping and have done two things.

They just wiped out the soldiers of a prater, a very high elected official, and they just captured a Roman camp with all of its supplies, all of its weapons, all of its armory, and these were really too really big.

First strikes of you allow that, and I will so no did thank you and it was a really big deal because you know word gets around and for the first time, slaves in Italy were thinking, wow, there's actually someplace. We could go it's not it's not like the in America, where there were slaves in the south mainly and they could escape to the north right.

It was just like that all over Italy, so they had no, they had nowhere to go. They had no safe, harbor, no quarter. If I'm allowed.

I will allow that as well and they said wow we got a place we can go. We can go join up with this Guy Sebarticus he's out there sneaking up on on glabors and killing them while he's taking a bath right and like that sounds pretty good to me. I want to get in on the fun yeah.

I don't know if it was this historian, Irwine from Murray State or if it was part of the article, but somebody says at some point that and I'm sorry not Erwin Aaron Irvin is the name of the historian. But somebody says at some point that those slaves, because they had nowhere to go like you were saying, but also because of the way that slave uprisings were brutally dealt with that theyr. They very frequently didn't even require supervision that they would thatthere were whole rural areas in towns.

That spartakus was moving around to where the slaves vastly outnumbered the freed people, and they were able to sustain that disproportionate population distribution, because the slaves in Rome had such little hope of any different life than what they had and so yeah like you're, saying spardic US provided hope in something different and all of a sudden. His little ragtag band of slaves in their slave uprising suddenly became a very large slave uprising and in a really short time, they attracted something like forty thousand slaves from these rural areas up around Vesuvius and in northern Italy. Yo think northeastern Italy that they would just run away, and now they had a place to go. Ie partikisses camp and theou join up there and show up with like kitchen knives and farm tools and stuff like that, and they would be trained in combat and now all of a sudden, it goes from his ragtag band of gladiator slaves, who had escaped to something that looked a lot like a actual rebellion and that's what Rome started to think that maybe they're dealing with yeah and I get the ideas around this time - that spar spartacus becomes kind of an idea, even more so than an actual human being. Because you know when t the word is getting around.

It's not like e. The newspapers had front page headlines or anything.

You get these whispers and you get these stories and the spark of hope among the slaves and this idea that there is this rebellion and he's a great boss. He splits everything right down the middle and he's not some awful leader. He divides all the spoils equally and he's getting non slaves to join up, because even if you're, like a you know, you might not be a slave, but if you're a very poor, farmhand or something it might look appealing all of a sudden because you're not part of the elite Roman kind of upper reshalon class yeah.

So the idea that he was splitting the spoils with people like that's huge and apparently that stands up that.

Basically all of the ancient sources agree like this guy took all this plunder and distributed. He didn't keep it for himself. He didn't turn himself into a king and he was running around freeing slaves and that you know that's one of the reasons why he did, like you said, become a hero or an idea and a hero. That's still to the stat groups, kind of latch on to so he's attracting more and more people.

One of the things in one of the ugly truths about this is that when they were going round to these small towns and these roral areas, freeing slaves getting them to join their ranks.

There was also a lot of plundering going on and they were not merciful with the slave owners who own these big, enormous estates that they were plundering.

They would engage in rape.

They would engage in torture, they would engage in murder and from what I saw it wasn't spartacus. That was doing that that he actually commanded against that, but that his army had a mind of its own in a lot of cases and that they would they would be pretty merciless and brutal.

With the the freed people whose stuff they were taking yeah, I mean I'm sure they were like. No, you raping pillage. That's what you do right, that's what at's, how it is right now, even in the movie sparticus he he refuses to take part in that.

So there are a few things. You know that Kubrick he didn't rite the screenplay that was actually Dalton Trumbo, but he he had that in the movie. So there were bits of truth throughout for sure right, so this is going on.

Rome finally is like all right: We got TA really deal with this guy. Can someone can someone? Please go kill? Sparticus for me right, Solabor, Glabor, sucked so bad. I guys we got to get a non glabor in there to take care of business and they did they sent Pooblius Verenius and hit that poublious guy. He was another prater, so they're sending like pretty important guys along with their soldiers and Verenius.

He was almost nearly captured, which would have been enormous.

He was so close to being captured that I believe Spartacus himself stole the guy's horse. He got his horse and eguy was Jus Verenious Pok publy is publeas Verinius, and that was a huge black eye to Rome. Theyre like not only as this, you know band of runaway slaves.

You know it will like able to engage Rome in battle, but he stole your horse and your insignia and almost got your guy.

That was a big deal, and so all these these victories with each victory, spartakiss's legend just grows and he's able to attract more and more people.

I think, within a year that historian kin oth check, says within a year, maybe a little more than a year.

There was, as many possibly is, a hundred and twenty five thousand freed slaves or slaves escape slaves and commoters, who had joined sparticus's Army, a hundred and twenty five thousand, and he started with seventy gladiators the year before yeah.

Seventy, not seventy thousand right, just to reiterate yeah. No, it's worth saying so spring of seventy two BC.

Spartacus has these troops some of them stay in the south with his buddy crixis and then he said the rest of you come with me we're going to head toward the Alps because its lovely this time of year - and I think at the time who would they these guys - have great names.

Rome sent armies led by Lucius, Gelius, Publi, Public Ola, Typeticoa and Neus Cornelius Lintulas Claudienus, those aure great names wow, those guys were councels, so they were the highest elected officials in Rome.

Yea they ow s. Many as like. Twenty thousand guys put together like this is serious business at the this time to go. Take care of Spartacus Yeah. I think when he almost captured Verenius, that was that really caught Rome's attention for the first time.

Unfortunately, these two councils, what were their names again chuck?

Let's just call him public, Ola and Cledenius, okay, fine, they were no better equipped to fight sparticus either.

I think, by this time he had he hadn't come close to a hundred and twenty five thousand people yet, but he was up to forty thousand and both of both of the Isan Herb, yeah, peaches and Harb Nice.

They underestimated how many troops he'd had. They also were unaware that he had wintered in the I think, the north of Italy and had spent the winter stealing horses and building up a cavalry unit which they had no idea. He had this and oneother thing he put to good use. So remember this guy's, potentially AF Roman army veteran from Thrace, which means he's familiar with guerilla warfare that the thracians practiced and conventional warfare, which the Romans practiced and he's like commanding tens of thousands of troops to great effect built a cavalry, and he also sowed like some of those commoners who joined up who weren't slaves. But they were not well off and they wanted to fight the fight the power so they joined.

They were usually like herdsmen or shepherds, or something like that from local areas who knew the the areas really well, so he used them as scouts and pieaches and herb had no idea that this again, this band of runaways slaves had turned into an actual, like legit army, under the command of somebody who knew what they were doing and he ate both of them alive, yeah. Well, it actually was.

It was kind of tough, because Peachas went down there to the south where crixis was and killed him with a lot of the rebels, and then herb came in from the north of Spartacus, where he was headed toward the Alps came. You know he was ahead of them, so he came south from the north right and he came in and sparticus was basically trapped between these two armies that had better equipment, better weaponry, better armor, more mmunitions and food and water and everything and wine right, and they had no idea that this calvary was waiting for him. That he had been working on was kind of his little kind of his little Trojan horse in a way, and they had never seen anything like it and he beat peaches. I think, or was that herb that Il OL confused. He beat herb okay, he beat herb and got all of the supplies that herbs army had and then it was.

It was on in a big big way, so I mispoke by this time. Yes, he probably had close to seventy five to a hundred and twenty five thousand people in his army, but they had split off because Crexus, who was one of the gladiators that you just mentioned, one of the original gladiators he broke out of the Gra gladior school with and who basically Co, operated the army with him.

He apparently wanted to split off and take it straight to Rome wantted to do attach Rome and Sparta Kiss. This whole thing was like no. No, no, let's go north to Thrace out of Italy.

We can be. We can build our army up even better there and either just hang out in Thrace and be great or maybe then we can come back to Italy and they had a disagreement. They had a falling out and they split up and Crixus took thirty thousand men and, like you said, I don't remember if it was peaches or her who got him, but the crixis and his men were killed, but simultaneously, even though spartacuss later beat that both of those guys he had just lost thirtyhusand of his troops, which is a pretty pretty big, true production, especially basically overnight, yeah, but he still one in the end in that battle he did, he fought very bravely. He rushed either peaches or herb broke them down, captured their supplies, and then we don't know for sure if he defeated herb or not or if they just retreated, but at any rate that was sort of the end of them and they were allowed to go onto the Alps right.

So you want to take another break yeah. Let's take our last break in well, we'll wind it up here with the last stand: okay, so Sparta Kis is not only now beaten, praters that the Roman sent he's beaten counsels in their armies and Rome is fullipped out. I don't know if they knew that Chrexus who, by the way, was a Celt which I find mmentally interesting but crixis.

I don't know if they knew that he was coming toward Rome and that they just narrowly avoided being attacked by that contingent.

But it was definitely on their mind that Rome was left unprotected because remember the best generals and the best their best armies were in Spain and Crete, and there was a really really angry group of impoverished, an an escape slaves who were who wad assembled themselves into a pretty respectable army, possibly coming toward Rome, yeah and Rome was on thin ice. At this point I mean they were still super powerful, obviously, but they make a good point in this article that they kind of relied on the fact that everyone thought they were great and was super scared of them, and they have these big scary armies and once they started getting these defeats and once they started getting defeats, especially the hands of a former slave who was leading this kind of ragtag team that was revolting against them.

Theres Little Chink in that armor and Spartakas S, thought Theyre winning battles and everyone hears about this and that's a big big deal to Rome. All of a sudden. They seem like they're defeatable yeah, which, if you are, if your society includes slaves in the slaves, are kept in line by the idea that you are undefeatable, that's right and so they're theyre. They seem like they're defeatable, now their best armies in generals that are away, and they couldn't really find anyone to really take care of sparticus. Until this guy stepped up, he was a wealthy prater named Marcus crassis and he sais do you know what I've got the dough and I'm a pretty brutal leader in my own right, maybe you've heard of me, and so I'm going to finance this army and I'm going to go, kill that guy, and so, if there's a villain in this story, it is crassis. He was a terrible terrible person, possibly the richest person. Rome has ever seen.

I read somewhere that he he would go to places that had caught fire with his own personal fire brigade and would negotiate with the owner of the House or whatever to buy it, and if the, if they would negotiate at just an extremely cheap rate, to sell their house that was on fire, then Crascius or crassis would have his fire brigade put it out.

If they didn't negotiate her sell, then he would just leave with his fire brigade and Laidt. It burn here's that kind of gun cresis was like hey man.

This place is on fire and I'm offering to buy it from you right. It's a firesale. You should you should take this yeah, but if they wouldn't, if they be like no, this is completely unacceptable and immoral. He'd be like all right see you later and as fir we gay woulh leave. That's just not good stuff. That's the kind of thing that, if you do that people continue to talk about it in a negative like two thousand years later on some dumb podcast. So crass is you also might recognize his name Hewas part of the first triumverate with pompy and Caesar he was the Third Guy Yeah.

I remember that name.

So so krassis steps up - and he says you know what my father got - a triumph, which is basically like a a military parade for a great military victory and I've always been envious. I want mine, I'm going to make mine the defeat of Spartacus. I'm going to go, get hem going to finance this army, I'm going to go pick up, some of the other armies that have been defeated and kind of left scattered around Italy and reassemble them, and there was one in particular.

I think it was the army of the Prater who was almost captured verinious.

Some of his people ran away and Krastus got them together.

I believe five hundred people who had been accused of desertion and running away during battle - and he brought out of the old steamer trunk, an old technique for keeping your troops in line called decimation chuck, which is a word that we've misused for years on this podcast. But this is the real deal that he was doing yeah and I don't think we've been missusing it for years. So I think it's now part of popular terminology just to not necessarily reduced by Tin, okay, fair enough, but what he did was. He said. Okay, all of you, five hundred break up into fifty groups of ten and in every group. All ten of you draw lots. Whoever draws the shortest lot gets executed and he executed fifty out of five hundred deserters in front of his troops.

To basically say hey, let's get that morale up everybody. This is what happens to you. If you don't fight valiantly - and that was the kind of leader that he was so he's a a real jerk in business and a real jerk on the battlefield too, even with his own troops and a very selfish lover from what I hear he really was he'd be like well, that's it for me: good luck to yourself, so he had a real, be in his Bonnet to get that victory parade. He goes and chases spartacus all over Italy, and there was some infighting going on, which is what can happen a lot of times in a rebellion.

If you don't keep everyone's spirits up, so that kind of weakened his army a little bit, and so in a last sditch effort. Spartaca said you know what we need to do is we need to go, kill crassis in front of everybody and that's that'll do the trick. If everyone sees crassis is gone, you cut off that head, maybe another one will not grow up in its place, yeah and that didn't work out for Spartacus.

He was actually cut down in battle.

His army was finally defeated.

They hunted down all six thousand of the survivors of the Army and crucified them.

He was not himself crucified like in the movie Spartacus, and there was never that great moment in the movie thet, I'm spartacis moment that never really happened in real life. Unfortunately, they never found his body, which is sort of a a sad end to this to a leader who did some pretty great things for a little while. But now, really, though, because I read he was last scene, he was really close to crassis.

He was headed to cresses to kill him himself and he, I think, killed two centurions in handhand combat on his way too crasses before he was swarmed on, like Hollywood style and cut down by like just a mob of dude who overwhelmed them, which that's not a sad end. No, if you're living by the sword and dine by the sword, that's the way to go for sure.

Okay, I bet you, he would have preferred to kill Rassis sure, no I'll give you that, but if he was never faded to kill crasses. If that snake coiled on his head and foretold that he would never kill crasses, that's the way to go well in the end he is gone. His rebellion is squashed, but some good comes out of it Rome kind of says. You know what this taught us a great lesson, which is: Maybe we should listen to the lower class a little bit more.

It wasn't some huge sweeping reform change or anything like that.

I don't want to like sugar coat it, but there were a number of reforms that were passed that did strengthen the voice of the people as a whole and they had a little bit more say in their government because they didn't want another sparticus to come along yeah and then over the years, like many thousands of years later, like I said he was kind of held up as like this hero this ideal, so like the abolitionist movement in the United States held hem up as a hero because he was known to free slaves. That was how he assembled his army and he wasn't necessarily freeing slaves for the ideal of ending slavery. He was freing slaves to help build up his army, but I'm sure there was a certain amount of like this is a good thing that these slaves are no longer slaves when they're. You know with me that he must have entertained at least and then later on. Like you said, Dalton Trumbo wrote the script for t nethousand, nine hundred and sixty movie directed by Kubrick, ONS, particase and Dalon Trumbo was blacklisted from Hollywood because he was a communist or he wouldn't name names. I can't remember an Dolan Trembo wrote that script based on a novel written by Guy Name, Howard fast, who had written the novel in jail because he wouldn't name names on the McCarthy hearings and so spartacus kind of became like a hero of Marxists because he freed slaves. He overthrew the oppressors, but he also took the oppressor's wealth and redistributed it. Among you know, the lower classes, which marks us are just bonkers for pretty interesting stuff, yeah, there's plenty more about Sparta, kiss cladiators all that stuff. This is really thick stuff, and this is stuff. You should know it's not what we do. We just kind of give en over O you. So if this floated your boat at all, go look up, sparticas start reading on him, and you will be fascinated and since I said that is time to listener mail, I'm going to call this wastewater operator, oh good or former now retired wastewater operator, hey guys, just finished listening to the episode and wastewater treatment with a critical ear.

Having worked for over twenty years is both a ww lab analyst an operator while I understand you're aiming for the least knowledgeable common denominator in your audience, I feel, like you, did a disservice to allway water treatment plants and their employees by failing to mention that every treatment plant in America must abide by strict regulatory permits issued under the clean water act, tailored to the needs of the of these specific facilities.

Influent, your words make it sound like we and operations made our own decisions as to how clean the water, how clean is clean enough, and that cannot be further from the truth.

I want to stop here because I don't feel like we did, that did we. I we certainly didn't mean to. I don't think that we were just like you know its up to text who's running the levers to decide what's clean enough.

If we did sorry, we definitely don't think that no, we didn't think that at all in my position as analyst I perform an average performed an average of thirty thousand standard laboratory test per year to maintain permit compliance and support operations.

That number increase dramatically when there are operational upsets process changes, influent variations, etcete.

In addition, operators collect an analyzed process, control samples several times per shift for the same reason think we knew that stuff was going on right, yeah.

I don't want to sound defensive, but do this person listen or just say?

Oh, I see this title. Here's all the things are going to get wrong now. I think they listened okay good.

I wish to thank you for attempting to educate the public on the vital roll cleanwater ensueits treatment play and the health and prosperity of the United States. I firmly believe this is what truly makes America Great?

You don't hear people saying they need vaccinations and antibiotics dofend off waterborne illness when visiting the United States.

Sorry to rant on appreciate your time thanks for reading and please put out a big thank you to all wastewater treatment operators about whom nobody is baying attention, but whom everyone needs, and that is from Anne Danielson, retired operator and analyst thanks a lot and that's good stuff and yes agreed. If everyone doesn't know that we need wastewater treatment, people and they're, not paying attention so hat's Rop to you and your colleagues from a Grede. Yes, I know that there's a a lot of work and analysis and testing and if we didn't hammer that home enough than we are now yeah well, if we miss the mark on something or you just wanted to add something or just want to say, Hey, you guys nailed. It knew that we love that you can get in touch with this via email, wrap it up spanken on the bottom and send it off to stuff podcast - and I heart radiocom Stuff You Should Know - is production of iheart radios. HOUSESTAFF works for more podcast. For my heart radio, evisit thet, I hat radio at Apple, podcast, ow whereever, you listen to your favorite, shows

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