April 29, 2023 • 34 mins
When a suspect or prisoner goes on the lam there are plenty of ways to hide: in plain sight, in the mountains, in another country. There are as many types of ways law enforcement uses to track wanted people as their are ways to go on the lam, but there are some founding principles to carrying out a successful manhunt and they actually include you. Learn about how the fuzz tracks down fugitives and how it's evolving in the age of social media in this classic episode.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, everybody be on the lookout. APB, middle aged white
male podcaster on the loose, guilty of bad jokes. Manhunt underway.
That's right, everyone, how man hunts work? December sixteenth, twenty thirteen.
Enjoy it right here, right now.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Now I've got to go.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
I'm on the LAMB. Welcome to Stuff you should know,
a production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's
child Chuck Bryant. Guest producer Noel is hanging out with
us for today. Noel, and that makes the stuff you
should know the podcast. That's right. I gotta come in
with something different to call it, so you should know
the podcast. It's boring.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
We're the explanerators infocast, right, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Podcast is what it is? Edertainment? Chuck. Yes, do you
know of a man named James Earl Ray? Yeah? Yeah,
a jerk, Yes, I saw him. I saw him referred
to as dim witted. Oh really yeah, which makes his
escape pretty thrilling and yeah, suspect. Really well, let me
give you a little back out. So, James Earlray was
(01:24):
a Missouri prison escape ee when he rolled into Memphis
to assassinate Martin Luther King Junior, Yes, who was in
Memphis to support the sanitation workers strike there in nineteen
sixty eight. And James Earl Ray got a room across
the street from the Lorraine Hotel where MLKA was staying,
(01:44):
apparently published in the papers not only where he was staying,
but his room number, which I guess was custom at
the time. Actually, from what I understand, it was customary. Okay,
it wasn't unheard of. And James Rolway got a room,
found out that he had a decent shot at the
balcony outside of King's room if he leaned out of
(02:04):
the bathroom the shared bathroom of his communal hotel and
shared bathroom huh, shared bathroom down, So somebody could have
gone in and been like, oh sorry, sir, pretty much
didn't see you in here with that rifle, with that
huge hunting rifle. Yeah, Well he got a shot off,
he killed MLK, and he ran out of this place
(02:25):
that was referred to as a flophouse, and he left
behind valuable evidence with his prints on it, namely the rifle,
a bundle of his clothing, and some other stuff that
they used to create a trail for James Rolway, got
a name, eventually got a picture, and James Roway made
it out of Memphis and he actually made it to Canada,
(02:45):
and he made it to Portugal and then the UK.
And the way he made it was under an assumed passport,
which for a dim witted Missouri prison escapee, a forged passport.
That's pretty heavy stuff.
Speaker 3 (03:04):
Yeah, I think it was probably easier back then.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Well, okay, you know he was traveling under the name
George Ramon Snead right, Yes, And they found out that
he was traveling under that name because Canadian police, after
being contacted by American authorities with a picture of James Roway,
went through about one hundred and fifty thousand passports that
(03:27):
they had accepted. I guess they had copies of them, yeah,
I think about it, and then finally found one that
looked like James Rolray found out that the person traveling
under that passport was in fact at Heathrow Airport or
in London. Yeah, and when he went to Heathrow Airport,
they apprehended him and he said, you got me. I'm
James Olwray and I killed MLK.
Speaker 3 (03:48):
Imagine that was tough because everyone back then looked like
James Rolray.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Yeah, pretty much.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
You know, all those dudes looked the same back in
the fifties, although this was the sixties, but he still
looked like that in the fifties.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
Looked fifties ish, he did.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
And he confessed and then later on, of course, recanted
and said no, I was part of a plot and
a conspiracy, and they said ts.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
Well, actually the King family said, you know what, we
think this guy's telling the truth, and they got a
new trial brought and he died in prison before he
could be brought to trial again.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
Yeah, in the late nineties. Yeah, and then you two
wrote a song about it. What song it was, the
song Pride in the Name of Love? Oh yeah, early
morning April four.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
Yeah, but that came before James lay. Yeah, what do
you mean you said, and then you two wrote it
was just missing You confused me for a second.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
Yeah, And I don't know if it was early morning either,
for I think for some reason I always heard that
Bono got that one wrong.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
Oh really, yeah, I'll have to look that up.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
I'm not sure what time it was.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
Yeah, I'm sure we could find out.
Speaker 3 (04:52):
But Bono wouldn't say that morning is like a state
of mind or something. I'm cool, got on blue sunglasses always.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
So the humph for James Earl Ray is just one example.
History is littered with manhunts, and what's strange about that
is that no manhunt really resembles other man hunts.
Speaker 3 (05:16):
Yeah, I mean, it's it's weird, like you can hole
up in the woods for years and then eventually get caught,
or if you're a whitey Bulger, you can go out
in your driveway in Santa Monica and get caught. Like
I guess, no manhunt is the same, because no going
on the lamb is the same. Some prefer hideen plane
sight deal, some prefer the middle of the woods. Some
(05:38):
people prefer you know, Bolivia.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
Sure you know, Nazis. What would you do if I
were on the run.
Speaker 3 (05:45):
Yeah, on the lamb, I would. I would probably be
a woodland creature.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
I don't know, But even if I did know, I
wouldn't say on the podcast because that'd be pretty dumb.
If in case I ever do need to go on
the lamb in the future.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
Although the hide and plain sight thing is there's something
to be said for that.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
Sure you know, Yeah, Well, I mean you've got to
get some plastic surgery done in this day and.
Speaker 3 (06:04):
Age, Yeah, or just mesh your face up a little bit.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
Well, actually, with Whitey Bulger, he was on the LAMB
with his longtime girlfriend Catherine Grieg I believe her name was,
and she had extensive plastic surgery.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
And which had nothing to do with being on the LAMB.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
They well, they she actually got them found. Oh really, yeah,
they're so. Whitey Bulger was on the LAMB for sixteen years, right, Yeah,
and it was he was up there with Osama bin
Laden as one of America's most wanted fugitives. There was
a million dollar bounty on it. Said it was big time,
(06:43):
and whenever they found out that he had been somewhere
where they thought he was somewhere, the FBI would take
out thirty second commercials on TV, yeah, saying have you
seen this man? Have you seen this woman? This woman
is known to frequent hair salons. This guy's Whitey Bulger.
You know the FBI if you see them in the
area during times when his girlfriend's demographic, Yeah, would be
(07:07):
watching TV. Oh sure, So this served a twofold purpose.
One if she saw it and he saw it, then
it would scare him and hopefully flush him out of hiding,
because it's a lot easier to catch somebody out in
the open.
Speaker 3 (07:18):
Yeah, which is a common tactic, right.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
Or two, the people that she might be friends with
and associate with could be watching TV at the time
and drop a dime on her. And in fact, that's
what happened.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
Someone like some lady who gave her a pedicure.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
Add a hair salon really called and said, I think
this woman that you're looking for is here, and this
is her address, And the cops went to the to
the apartment said sir, it looks like somebody broke into
your storage unit here around the corner. And why he
bowls your steps outside and they go clink clank.
Speaker 3 (07:51):
Why did they even say that? Could they not go
inside or something?
Speaker 2 (07:53):
I guess they didn't have enough probable cause they had
to lure him outside. I love that. That's okay, right.
Speaker 3 (07:59):
It's not okay them in, but it's okay to lie
and say that your story unit's busted into.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
Yeah, surprise he feel for that too. Yeah, I'm sure
he is too.
Speaker 3 (08:07):
He might have gotten lazy after sixteen years.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
I don't think so, man. I think he was really
wound up pretty tight. I read a long form article
by a neighbor of his, a young guy who befriended
him over the years, and he said he was wound
up real tight, always on the lookout. Did he write
a book seem cagey?
Speaker 3 (08:23):
He will called like neighbor to the mob?
Speaker 2 (08:25):
Pretty I'm sure, Matthew Modine.
Speaker 3 (08:29):
Yeah, if I liok next to Whitey Bull dread, that
book would be on the shelves right now, sure, and
it would be called neighbor to the mob.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
I wonder what Aaron Cooper's going to make that? So
who else we got? John Wilkes Booth.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
He famously went on the lamb for a pretty short
time after he shot Lincoln twelve days and ended up
in a farmhouse where there's all kinds of stories on
how he might have died, whether he was burned alive
or whether he was truly rooted out by the fire
and then shot.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Did you die instantly? Did you linger for a while?
Speaker 3 (09:03):
But either way, manhunts have been around as long as
people have been killing people.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Yeah, And there are some principles that do kind of
hold true for all man hunts across the board, and
pretty much one of them is get the public involved. Yeah,
because when you do that time and time again, manhunts
have shown that, like, somebody out there has seen this
person recently and will call right.
Speaker 3 (09:28):
Especially these days with technology, with like everyone having a
camera in their pocket basically, or sharing on social media,
or being up to the second with news reports. It's
like it's made manhunts easier.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
Yes, And then the other factor that makes for a
successful manhunt is having a lot of people doing a
lot of grunt work. Like, yeah, the Canadian officials going
through all of those passports to try to find one
that looked like James Rolay.
Speaker 3 (09:56):
Yeah, I wonder how many people they visited before him,
like the other twelve guys that look just.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
Like Cancel, Like, it's not me, so all right, Chuck.
(10:26):
So let's say that somebody's on the run in the
United States and it's not it's not a big deal.
It's not necessarily a national man hunt. It's a it's
a regional man hunt.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
We'll say, Okay, like someone knocked off a liquor store
and shot somebody and was on the loose. Yeah, in
a neighborhood.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
I want to find that guy. What do you do?
Speaker 3 (10:45):
Well, I'm glad you asked, because I've done this.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
With mirrored sunglasses on. Yeah, Bloodhound.
Speaker 3 (10:53):
The first thing you gotta do, my friend, is contain
the area. It's called containment, and it sounds just like
what it is. You are basically trying to seal off
an area and watch all the possible exits from that area.
If it's a neighborhood, I guess you're going to just
pick out a certain amount of blockage and shut it
(11:14):
down and have cops posted at each street exit right,
and just know that we have at least this area
completely contained. If this dude is in here, and we're
going to say, guys, because how many times do women
do stupid stuff like this and go in the lamb?
Speaker 2 (11:28):
Not much? You know? Sure? Have you not heard of
thellman Louise?
Speaker 3 (11:33):
That's like the one thing.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
So if you do have an area contained, what you
want to do is not just not let anybody in
or out without finding out if it's the person you're
looking for. Yeah, you also probably want to go door
to door and say, hey, are you being held hostage
right now? Did some guy with a gun come into
your basement window recently? And that's what they did? Actually,
(11:56):
or with a twenty square block area when there's parching
for the Boston Marathon.
Speaker 3 (12:01):
Bombers, Yeah, should we talk about those guys real quick?
Sure they were jerks too, Yeah, the sarenof brothers. They
blew up a couple of pressure cookers fashioned into bombs
at the finish line of the Boston Marathon, and the
FBI got on it pretty quick with getting photos released
(12:24):
of who they thought these guys were, which turned out
to be really key because after a kind of a
crazy scene where one of them was shot and killed
by the police, like throwing bombs at the cops.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
Yeah, it was quite a scene. Run over by his brother.
Speaker 3 (12:38):
And then the one I guess is that Zo Car.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
The da silent right, Yeah, Joe Kar or Jokar Joe Car.
Speaker 3 (12:45):
I think he is the one that ended up in
a residential neighborhood hiding in a boat under a tarp.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
Yeah, and he was.
Speaker 3 (12:54):
They sniffed him off the case with some infrared imaging
and basically it was like pred They're like, there's a
guy in that boat because I see his red body breathing.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
Right. So the reason that they found out that the
dude was in the boat was because the person who
owned the boat was in this area under the security
lockdown in containment, and was well aware thanks to the
local news and social media and everything else, that they
were looking for this guy. So when he saw that
(13:26):
there was a dude in his boat, he called the cops.
That's how the cops found suspect number two in the
Boston bombing case. Right.
Speaker 3 (13:33):
I bet that was a rush for that guy.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
I read about like what he said. I think he
was kind of scared.
Speaker 3 (13:39):
I'm sure, because it's pretty obvious, like you see a
guy there's a lockdown in your neighborhood, and you see
guy go climb under your boat tarp in their backyard.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
That's him. Yeah, you know, bleeding guy. I think he
was bleeding at the time. Even more reason so with
the Boston's a great case because it's recent, everybody knows
about it, but because it has like so many different
points to it that really kind of give you an
idea of what a manhunt consists of. So you've got containment,
you've got a door to door search, you've got the
(14:11):
public transportation being shut down. Yeah, that was a big one.
That's part of containment as well.
Speaker 3 (14:15):
Yeah, they set up a no fly zone, they closed
the schools, they closed, they shuttered businesses. It was basically
the biggest shutdown of a major US city in history.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
Right, People who were in the containment area were asked
to not leave their house. That horrid news speak. Shelter
in place.
Speaker 3 (14:35):
Yeah, yeah, term that just sounds like you should be
in a corner like.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
Shelter in place.
Speaker 3 (14:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
I remember a tweet from doctor Ruth while that was
going on. She's saying, Hey, if you're having the shelter
in place, maybe now's a good time to turn off
the TV and get intimate with your loved one. I
couldn't believe it. Wow.
Speaker 3 (14:55):
Yeah, they say they're still counting up the monies, but
it's tallying up to over a billion dollars for that
man hunt.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
What isn't that crazy? Somebody's milking that. You gotta think
billion dollars. I got a little sidebar, let's hear it.
Speaker 3 (15:09):
Not on a man hunt, but President Obama came through
my neighborhood a few months ago, like on his way
to school indicator for something cool, and literally drove like
down the block from my house the motorcade. Did did
you run out to him? Well, no, you can't that's
my point. Like my friend, you remember Chris Cox, his wife,
(15:31):
We ended up being stuck at the same intersection and
her house was across the street, like forty feet away.
She's like, sir, that is my house. I have a
babysitter there. I'm paying, Like, can I just walk across
the street. And he was like, nope, no, he would
not let her walk across the street and enter her
own home.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
You have no rights. The president is on your street.
Speaker 3 (15:51):
Yeah, and he wasn't even It took like another half
hour and she's like, I really just need to walk
right there, and he wouldn't allow it.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
Huh.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
So that's some serious lockdown. Is when the government wants
to lock you down, they can lock you down.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
Yeah, pretty much. Yeah, so chuck, uh, you do have rights, however.
Speaker 3 (16:08):
Well, yeah, it's a good segue.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
I guess it was a great segue, buddy. Yeah, if
you're in if you're being told not to leave your house,
first of all, you can technically leave your house, can you.
I think you just your risk of being shot at
by the police go through the roof. Maybe, So that's
a pretty good reason not to leave your house, just
(16:30):
out of common sense. You can be enraged. All you
want indoors, well, just like any other night, and the
police can't just come busting down your door saying is
he in here? No, okay, let's go kick down the
next door. They can knock and say can we come
in and look, and you can say yeah, your nay.
If they have probable cause, say one of them saw
(16:53):
the suspect run into your house, they can go in
after him without asking you.
Speaker 3 (16:57):
Yeah, Or if they're creeping around your backyard and peeking
in your wind, which they can do legally. Yeah, the
cops Yeah they can. They could, you know, see somebody
they think looks like the suspect and say that's probable cause.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
There's a there's a loophole big enough to drive like
an armored truck through if you're not picking up on that. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:16):
If they need to provide emergency services, they can do that.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
Yeah. They can say, oh, we thought you you needed CPR.
We're glad to see you're okay. Now that we're in
your house, we're looking around.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
Or another big loophole is the exigent circumstances, which I
don't know. In the case of Boston, they could probably
barge into anyone's home and be covered under that one.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
Yeah, it's basically like there were there's a state of
emergency going on, Like the civil law is just out
the window because the situation is so dire. And yeah,
they argued that this guy was running around with explosives.
That's an emergency. Sure, as far as I know, they
didn't like go into any houses unbidden though.
Speaker 3 (17:59):
Yeah, and we're not trying to say, like in a
case like that, like bust down some doors, you know,
Like I'm not saying like cops shouldn't be doing this stuff. Well,
there were like two bombers on the loose, so I
get it.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
Even still, the cops don't want to bust down a
door because they're going to have to prove exigence circumstances,
and if they can't, then any evidence that they got
from an unlawful searches out the door, and so their
case could be as well.
Speaker 3 (18:25):
Yeah, you gotta be careful stuff like that. Past thing
you want to do is have your purp walk you
like all.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
This cops speak, Yeah walk.
Speaker 3 (18:34):
Yeah, if you're purp walks because of bad, bad evidence,
then you're gonna be uh, what's.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
What's it called?
Speaker 3 (18:42):
When the cop gets eighty six eighty six suspended without pay.
I'm feeling like we're channeling the TV show episode we Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
Oh yeah, you're like we had a TV show. Yeah,
I just owned out about that. Okay, where are we then? Well?
I was saying that one of the hallmarks of a
good man hunt is having a lot of people doing
a lot of work. And again, Boston was a good
example of that. You had a lot of different law
enforcement agencies, basically ones you hadn't even heard of, all
(19:16):
ponying up personnel.
Speaker 3 (19:18):
Yeah, I mean you're gonna get state cops, local cops, sheriffs, FBI,
and that that's for a case like that, or obviously
if it's something like UBL then everyone seems you're a
dark thirty or if you haven't, you should. You've got
like thousands of people over a decade, all over the
world working together.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
It was just that one lady.
Speaker 3 (19:41):
It was just the one lady, the pretty redhead.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
So the author of this article makes a pretty good
point that during a man hunt there is such a
thing as what in police speak would be called collateral damage.
I guess sure. Like the LAPD search for Christopher Dorner
is a very good example of this. Do you remember
(20:05):
that case?
Speaker 3 (20:05):
Yeah, man, that was freaky.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
Yeah. There's like, there's a Facebook page it's twenty thousand
plus people strong that says it's called we Stand with
Christopher Dorner. Oh really yeah, because he left behind. So
he was an LAPD officer who was fired for making
a false accusation against another cop, right when he reported
that a cop he was working with kicked a homeless
(20:27):
man during an arrest. But that was false. It was
found false, and he was fired as a result. From
his perspective, if you see it through his through his eyes,
that was all just a huge cover up, and they
got rid of the troublemaker who was not, you know,
going with the flow on the force.
Speaker 3 (20:42):
The LAPD covering up seas right, that's weird.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
So he leaves this like angry manifesto about you know
how the LAPD is the most corrupt organization on the
planet and it's racist and yeah, there's a lot of
people out there who are like, I know this to
be true. Yeah, I've I've been on the wrong end
of a night stick with the LAPD.
Speaker 3 (21:03):
I've seen LA confidential, Yeah exactly, and that's in the forties. Yeah,
I mean it's that's I know they've cleaned it up
a lot, but that is one department in this country
that's been fraught with allegation.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
Yeah, and his point was they haven't cleaned it up
a lot, they've just gotten better at PR. So he
goes on, he takes the manifesto and ends up going
on in assassination killing spree, killing cops. Yeah, killed the
woman who represented him in his case, who is the
daughter of a cop.
Speaker 3 (21:31):
And it was announced like that's what's so scary about
it was like he was like, Hey, I'm coming to
kill cops. Exactly, You're not going to see me coming either.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
He was on a rampage. Yeah, it was scary stoff.
So the LAPD is super jumpy at this point and
they fire on not one but two cars that don't
have Christopher Dorner in them. Killed two people unbelievable as
a result. And finally there's this standoff after they find
him thanks to some Ark rangers in Big Bear or
(22:02):
Big Sir, one of the two they had Big Bear
Big Bear, and he ends up setting the cabin he's
in on fire and haishing in flames. That was crazy,
But the fact is two different cars were shot on
by the LAPD during the search for this guy. So
these aren't just necessarily clean affairs. Same with Ben Lawden.
(22:26):
You know, this was part of the campaign that took
place over a very long time and a lot of
people were killed to weaken the structure that was hiding him.
Speaker 3 (22:36):
Still, yeah, drone strikes out the wazoo.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
They used some.
Speaker 3 (22:40):
Pretty interesting tactics too that were not in the movie,
even though I've heard the movie is pretty accurate, but
they didn't include everything obviously. They sent a doctor in
a CIA guy who conducted an immunization drive in the
neighborhood where they believed his compound was there and basically
hoping to come across DNA from him or his family
(23:03):
under the guise of a blood drive.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
Right, it was an ammunization driver.
Speaker 3 (23:08):
Yeah, they didn't call it like, hey, it's a DNA collection,
right drive.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
But there was a big public outcry, especially from the
vaccine establishment, saying like, dude, you can't do that because
now our name is on that vaccine right and the
next time we want to have a real vaccine drive,
no one's going to show up, and our vaccination people
are going to get killed because they're going to think
they're CIA. Yeah, there's a big beef, a big hubbub
about that. That's legit.
Speaker 3 (23:34):
These days, it's tough, especially if you're in a city
like London, England, to do anything without being caught on
a closed circuit camera.
Speaker 2 (23:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (23:45):
In fact, that's how they eventually identified with the help
of actually one of the victims. In Boston, they were
on camera too, But if you're in a big city,
it's tough to get away with.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
Anything these days. Cameras are everywhere.
Speaker 3 (23:58):
They also have I mentioned the infrared device, the forward
looking infrared device, night vision. You've got all sorts of
tricks up your sleeve as law enforcement agencies. You think
you're hiding in a boat under a tarp, that's pretty safe.
You don't think about the dude with the predator camera
that can see you from you know, fifty feet away,
(24:20):
breathing heavily.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
Right.
Speaker 3 (24:22):
They also have like armored trucks. I think you mentioned those, yeah,
even not even about this.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
Like from Diehard.
Speaker 3 (24:28):
Yeah, and you see those things roll in like I'm
sure they love to play with those once a year.
Again that was LAPD Yeah, but those are very expensive,
but they do come in handy. I guess about once
a year if you can afford it, if your town's
large enough.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
We should say that there was facial recognition software that
they had working on the video for the Boston bombing
and it did not work.
Speaker 3 (24:52):
Yeah, we have an article on that. By the way,
I think we should cover that at some point.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
Facial recognition. Yeah, yeah, that's scary stuff. Google has one
that like they won't they won't release to the publicly
because they're afraid of the use it'll be put to.
It's like that good wow, and that potentially bad.
Speaker 3 (25:11):
But the one the CIA has doesn't work that well.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
I could see Google having way better algorithms than the CIA.
That's true, so chuck. Another aspect of Boston search, the
Boston man hunt, yeah, was the use of social media
for good and ill or did good effect and bad?
I should say, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (25:31):
Getting the word out on Facebook and Twitter is not
a bad idea.
Speaker 2 (25:33):
Yeah. Well, the Reddit was kind of the star of
the show or the scapegoat, I should say, for social
media in the search for the Boston bombing suspects, because
there were apparently like a couple thousand stills, video stills
and photographs from the area around the time. Of the
bombing posted on a reddit subreddit. Yeah, and all of
(25:58):
these people were like combing through like they were trying
to crowdsource this man hunt.
Speaker 3 (26:02):
Yeah, which is a good intention.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
Yeah, they were looking for suspects before anybody ever released
any official photos, and that in and of itself is
kind of a good idea, sure, but it went a
step further where the people on Reddit were saying, Okay,
I've got to figure it out, and it's this person,
and they would name a suspect, and all of a sudden,
(26:24):
there's a rumor out there that this person bombed the
Boston marathon, even though they hadn't so read. It took
a lot of heat for that, and apparently they even
took that forum down. But social media also helped in
a lot of ways because everybody was totally connected to
(26:45):
this man hunt and had completely up to the date,
information to the minute, information from within that containment area,
from everywhere, and I guess kind of helped a little
more than just passively watching television during a man hunt.
Speaker 3 (27:00):
You know the point one of my favorite man hunts,
and this is weird to say that, but actually, you
know what, let's take a break. I'm going to tease that,
and I'm going to reveal my favorite man hunt after
the break.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
Okay, So who is it. It's the Unibomber.
Speaker 3 (27:33):
Oh okay, Yeah, that's Kidzinski was on the LAMB for
eighteen years. One of the lengthiest manhunts in US history.
Not easy to hide out for that long and he
did it, which he did it in the wild of Montana.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
Just pretty good idea.
Speaker 3 (27:50):
I guess if you're going to hide out, just drop
off the map. Yeah, type manifestos. Actually Montana. They should
have been looking there, They should have been going there first.
But he mailed sixteen bombs over the course of quite
a few years and ended up killing three people, wounding
twenty three more, and had a million dollar bounty on
(28:11):
his head. Was one of the most wanted and eventually
he was rooted out by his own brother, who read
one of the manifestos and said that sounds like Teddy Yeah,
and went to the cops and said, hey, this guy
might be my brother. The writing style, the things he's
saying like it very well could be my brother.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
And it turned out that was him, right, So, which
is another another point for the case that for a
man hunt to work, you have to get the public involved,
and they did so by publishing these manifestos and said,
anybody familiar with this? Yeah, and the guy's brother said, yeah, me, Yeah,
same with Eric Robert Rudolph. Yeah, that's his name. I
(28:51):
don't remember how they caught him.
Speaker 3 (28:54):
I believe it was hikers in the woods, Okay, turned
him in. I might be wrong, but he was definitely
hiding out in the woods. And he was, of course
the Olympic bomber, not the guy they originally in pended on,
which was pretty.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
Sad, right. What was his name, Richard Jewel? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (29:09):
Man, I felt so bad for that dude.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (29:12):
Can you imagine, like life ruined?
Speaker 2 (29:15):
Yeah, and they compensated him pretty handsomely afterward. But then
he only lived a couple of several million. Oh yeah,
he died of a heart attack a few years after that.
Speaker 3 (29:24):
I don't think I knew that. Yeah, it's because he's like,
I'm eating steak in lobster every night. Now ask me
the drawn butter or Richard Jewel.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
Yeah, I didn't know he died. Yeah, And then so
back to online real quick. There's there's evidence that you
can crowdsource a man hunt. Yeah, there's a whole group
of people that live online that are into true crime,
that are that like use their interest in their online
search skills to try to find the identities of like
(29:53):
long lost serial killers. And there's all sorts of online
man hunts that amateurs take on. And apparently the State
Department held something called the Tag Challenge where they had
people hiding in cities around the world and people had
twelve hours online contestants had twelve hours to find them
(30:15):
in like these five different cities. That's fun, using just
mugshots and it worked. So they found that with a search,
as time becomes more of an essence, is the pressure
mount people stopped just shooting the info out to wherever
they can and start like really targeting, focusing their search.
(30:35):
And once you have a bunch of people doing that
who are really focused in searching, but a lot of
them and sharing information like on social media, that's when
they like a search and not just a manhunt or
search for a person, but a search for anything becomes
most successful.
Speaker 3 (30:53):
I guess, well, yeah, imagine in Boston, I bet every
thousands of people in that twenty square block radius are
looking out of their window.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
Oh yeah, for this dude. Yeah, so you've.
Speaker 3 (31:04):
Got thousands and thousands of more eyeballs. That's two eyeballs
per person in most cases, unless you're one of those
weird pirates Boston pirates. And that's just that helps you know, yeap,
as long as they're not out, don't grab their guns
and you know, get in position. Well, yeah, that's a scary.
Speaker 2 (31:23):
Well that's why they released the pictures of the suspects finally,
because they were trying to crack down on online vigil
anianism that could lead to real life vigilaniism.
Speaker 3 (31:32):
Yeah, so hats off to the dude who saw the
dude in the boat.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
You got anything else? I got nothing else? All right, Well,
if you want to learn more about manhunts, you can
tuck that word in the search bar at house Stuff Works.
And since I said search bar, that means it's time
for listener mail. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (31:53):
I'm going to call this Chess about Chess, and I'm
gonna read a couple of them, not here, but one
now and one another of so because we got a
lot of great feedback from Chest enthusiasts, I noticed people
dig this game.
Speaker 2 (32:06):
This is from David Wagner.
Speaker 3 (32:07):
Hey, guys, while you were discussing the concept of castling,
y'all said you didn't quite understand the value or strategy
behind it.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
You're right.
Speaker 3 (32:16):
It is all about protecting the king. Remember how you
pointed out that you want to control the center of
the board. Yes, that when your pieces are off to
the side, they're not as strong. Yes, well, that has
a lot to do with why you want to castle. Basically,
the king is more vulnerable, open to attacks and has
less protection when he remains in his original ear d square,
So you want to castle him and get him away
from those center squares.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
Gotcha.
Speaker 3 (32:38):
Also, you talk about the en passant rule, which is
one of my favorites and something almost.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
Never pass up.
Speaker 3 (32:45):
He's not like TV Herman, mostly because I get because
I rarely get a chance to implement it. It doesn't
happen when a pond passes another pawn though on its
first move out. It is when it lands next to
another pawn that the latter pond capture it. So I
think we screwed that up a little.
Speaker 2 (33:02):
Ye up, big time? Not big time. We were close. No,
I got that way wrong.
Speaker 3 (33:07):
Okay, one last thing and then I'll quit chess pieces.
You're gonna love this, and their's symbols on top. Many
of the basic pieces themselves serve as visual reminders of
how they can move. For example, the night is l shaped,
which is how it moves. The bishop's miter has a
diagonal slit in it. They move diagonally. The rook, when
(33:28):
seen from above, can move in the basic cardinal directions forward, back, left, right,
and on top of the rook there are turrets pointing
in all the cardinal directions.
Speaker 2 (33:36):
Nice.
Speaker 3 (33:37):
A queen has many points on her crown showing that
she can go in any way, any direction, and that
small little cross on top of the king lets you
know how far he can go, although that doesn't include
his diagonomos, which he can.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
Move in, so that on the whole theory kind of
falls apart there a little bit.
Speaker 3 (33:55):
But that is from David Wagner in Columbia, South Carolina.
Speaker 2 (33:59):
Nice, Thanks a lot, Wagner. That was a great email, pleasant, approachable,
gentle with the correction, just good stuff all around. You
can dance to it. You're right man. Way to go, Wagner.
If you want to send us an email or reach
out to us digitally to say hello or whatever, you
can tweet to us, join us on Twitter at sysk podcast,
(34:23):
join us on Facebook at facebook dot com, slash Stuff
you Should Know, or you can send us an email
to Stuff Podcast at HowStuffWorks dot com. Stuff you Should
Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts my
heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
you listen to your favorite shows.
Hi, everybody be on the lookout. APB, middle aged white
male podcaster on the loose, guilty of bad jokes. Manhunt underway.
That's right, everyone, how man hunts work? December sixteenth, twenty thirteen.
Enjoy it right here, right now.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Now I've got to go.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
I'm on the LAMB. Welcome to Stuff you should know,
a production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's
child Chuck Bryant. Guest producer Noel is hanging out with
us for today. Noel, and that makes the stuff you
should know the podcast. That's right. I gotta come in
with something different to call it, so you should know
the podcast. It's boring.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
We're the explanerators infocast, right, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Podcast is what it is? Edertainment? Chuck. Yes, do you
know of a man named James Earl Ray? Yeah? Yeah,
a jerk, Yes, I saw him. I saw him referred
to as dim witted. Oh really yeah, which makes his
escape pretty thrilling and yeah, suspect. Really well, let me
give you a little back out. So, James Earlray was
(01:24):
a Missouri prison escape ee when he rolled into Memphis
to assassinate Martin Luther King Junior, Yes, who was in
Memphis to support the sanitation workers strike there in nineteen
sixty eight. And James Earl Ray got a room across
the street from the Lorraine Hotel where MLKA was staying,
(01:44):
apparently published in the papers not only where he was staying,
but his room number, which I guess was custom at
the time. Actually, from what I understand, it was customary. Okay,
it wasn't unheard of. And James Rolway got a room,
found out that he had a decent shot at the
balcony outside of King's room if he leaned out of
(02:04):
the bathroom the shared bathroom of his communal hotel and
shared bathroom huh, shared bathroom down, So somebody could have
gone in and been like, oh sorry, sir, pretty much
didn't see you in here with that rifle, with that
huge hunting rifle. Yeah, Well he got a shot off,
he killed MLK, and he ran out of this place
(02:25):
that was referred to as a flophouse, and he left
behind valuable evidence with his prints on it, namely the rifle,
a bundle of his clothing, and some other stuff that
they used to create a trail for James Rolway, got
a name, eventually got a picture, and James Roway made
it out of Memphis and he actually made it to Canada,
(02:45):
and he made it to Portugal and then the UK.
And the way he made it was under an assumed passport,
which for a dim witted Missouri prison escapee, a forged passport.
That's pretty heavy stuff.
Speaker 3 (03:04):
Yeah, I think it was probably easier back then.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Well, okay, you know he was traveling under the name
George Ramon Snead right, Yes, And they found out that
he was traveling under that name because Canadian police, after
being contacted by American authorities with a picture of James Roway,
went through about one hundred and fifty thousand passports that
(03:27):
they had accepted. I guess they had copies of them, yeah,
I think about it, and then finally found one that
looked like James Rolray found out that the person traveling
under that passport was in fact at Heathrow Airport or
in London. Yeah, and when he went to Heathrow Airport,
they apprehended him and he said, you got me. I'm
James Olwray and I killed MLK.
Speaker 3 (03:48):
Imagine that was tough because everyone back then looked like
James Rolray.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Yeah, pretty much.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
You know, all those dudes looked the same back in
the fifties, although this was the sixties, but he still
looked like that in the fifties.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
Looked fifties ish, he did.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
And he confessed and then later on, of course, recanted
and said no, I was part of a plot and
a conspiracy, and they said ts.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
Well, actually the King family said, you know what, we
think this guy's telling the truth, and they got a
new trial brought and he died in prison before he
could be brought to trial again.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
Yeah, in the late nineties. Yeah, and then you two
wrote a song about it. What song it was, the
song Pride in the Name of Love? Oh yeah, early
morning April four.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
Yeah, but that came before James lay. Yeah, what do
you mean you said, and then you two wrote it
was just missing You confused me for a second.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
Yeah, And I don't know if it was early morning either,
for I think for some reason I always heard that
Bono got that one wrong.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
Oh really, yeah, I'll have to look that up.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
I'm not sure what time it was.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
Yeah, I'm sure we could find out.
Speaker 3 (04:52):
But Bono wouldn't say that morning is like a state
of mind or something. I'm cool, got on blue sunglasses always.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
So the humph for James Earl Ray is just one example.
History is littered with manhunts, and what's strange about that
is that no manhunt really resembles other man hunts.
Speaker 3 (05:16):
Yeah, I mean, it's it's weird, like you can hole
up in the woods for years and then eventually get caught,
or if you're a whitey Bulger, you can go out
in your driveway in Santa Monica and get caught. Like
I guess, no manhunt is the same, because no going
on the lamb is the same. Some prefer hideen plane
sight deal, some prefer the middle of the woods. Some
(05:38):
people prefer you know, Bolivia.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
Sure you know, Nazis. What would you do if I
were on the run.
Speaker 3 (05:45):
Yeah, on the lamb, I would. I would probably be
a woodland creature.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
I don't know, But even if I did know, I
wouldn't say on the podcast because that'd be pretty dumb.
If in case I ever do need to go on
the lamb in the future.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
Although the hide and plain sight thing is there's something
to be said for that.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
Sure you know, Yeah, Well, I mean you've got to
get some plastic surgery done in this day and.
Speaker 3 (06:04):
Age, Yeah, or just mesh your face up a little bit.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
Well, actually, with Whitey Bulger, he was on the LAMB
with his longtime girlfriend Catherine Grieg I believe her name was,
and she had extensive plastic surgery.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
And which had nothing to do with being on the LAMB.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
They well, they she actually got them found. Oh really, yeah,
they're so. Whitey Bulger was on the LAMB for sixteen years, right, Yeah,
and it was he was up there with Osama bin
Laden as one of America's most wanted fugitives. There was
a million dollar bounty on it. Said it was big time,
(06:43):
and whenever they found out that he had been somewhere
where they thought he was somewhere, the FBI would take
out thirty second commercials on TV, yeah, saying have you
seen this man? Have you seen this woman? This woman
is known to frequent hair salons. This guy's Whitey Bulger.
You know the FBI if you see them in the
area during times when his girlfriend's demographic, Yeah, would be
(07:07):
watching TV. Oh sure, So this served a twofold purpose.
One if she saw it and he saw it, then
it would scare him and hopefully flush him out of hiding,
because it's a lot easier to catch somebody out in
the open.
Speaker 3 (07:18):
Yeah, which is a common tactic, right.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
Or two, the people that she might be friends with
and associate with could be watching TV at the time
and drop a dime on her. And in fact, that's
what happened.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
Someone like some lady who gave her a pedicure.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
Add a hair salon really called and said, I think
this woman that you're looking for is here, and this
is her address, And the cops went to the to
the apartment said sir, it looks like somebody broke into
your storage unit here around the corner. And why he
bowls your steps outside and they go clink clank.
Speaker 3 (07:51):
Why did they even say that? Could they not go
inside or something?
Speaker 2 (07:53):
I guess they didn't have enough probable cause they had
to lure him outside. I love that. That's okay, right.
Speaker 3 (07:59):
It's not okay them in, but it's okay to lie
and say that your story unit's busted into.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
Yeah, surprise he feel for that too. Yeah, I'm sure
he is too.
Speaker 3 (08:07):
He might have gotten lazy after sixteen years.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
I don't think so, man. I think he was really
wound up pretty tight. I read a long form article
by a neighbor of his, a young guy who befriended
him over the years, and he said he was wound
up real tight, always on the lookout. Did he write
a book seem cagey?
Speaker 3 (08:23):
He will called like neighbor to the mob?
Speaker 2 (08:25):
Pretty I'm sure, Matthew Modine.
Speaker 3 (08:29):
Yeah, if I liok next to Whitey Bull dread, that
book would be on the shelves right now, sure, and
it would be called neighbor to the mob.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
I wonder what Aaron Cooper's going to make that? So
who else we got? John Wilkes Booth.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
He famously went on the lamb for a pretty short
time after he shot Lincoln twelve days and ended up
in a farmhouse where there's all kinds of stories on
how he might have died, whether he was burned alive
or whether he was truly rooted out by the fire
and then shot.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Did you die instantly? Did you linger for a while?
Speaker 3 (09:03):
But either way, manhunts have been around as long as
people have been killing people.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Yeah, And there are some principles that do kind of
hold true for all man hunts across the board, and
pretty much one of them is get the public involved. Yeah,
because when you do that time and time again, manhunts
have shown that, like, somebody out there has seen this
person recently and will call right.
Speaker 3 (09:28):
Especially these days with technology, with like everyone having a
camera in their pocket basically, or sharing on social media,
or being up to the second with news reports. It's
like it's made manhunts easier.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
Yes, And then the other factor that makes for a
successful manhunt is having a lot of people doing a
lot of grunt work. Like, yeah, the Canadian officials going
through all of those passports to try to find one
that looked like James Rolay.
Speaker 3 (09:56):
Yeah, I wonder how many people they visited before him,
like the other twelve guys that look just.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
Like Cancel, Like, it's not me, so all right, Chuck.
(10:26):
So let's say that somebody's on the run in the
United States and it's not it's not a big deal.
It's not necessarily a national man hunt. It's a it's
a regional man hunt.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
We'll say, Okay, like someone knocked off a liquor store
and shot somebody and was on the loose. Yeah, in
a neighborhood.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
I want to find that guy. What do you do?
Speaker 3 (10:45):
Well, I'm glad you asked, because I've done this.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
With mirrored sunglasses on. Yeah, Bloodhound.
Speaker 3 (10:53):
The first thing you gotta do, my friend, is contain
the area. It's called containment, and it sounds just like
what it is. You are basically trying to seal off
an area and watch all the possible exits from that area.
If it's a neighborhood, I guess you're going to just
pick out a certain amount of blockage and shut it
(11:14):
down and have cops posted at each street exit right,
and just know that we have at least this area
completely contained. If this dude is in here, and we're
going to say, guys, because how many times do women
do stupid stuff like this and go in the lamb?
Speaker 2 (11:28):
Not much? You know? Sure? Have you not heard of
thellman Louise?
Speaker 3 (11:33):
That's like the one thing.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
So if you do have an area contained, what you
want to do is not just not let anybody in
or out without finding out if it's the person you're
looking for. Yeah, you also probably want to go door
to door and say, hey, are you being held hostage
right now? Did some guy with a gun come into
your basement window recently? And that's what they did? Actually,
(11:56):
or with a twenty square block area when there's parching
for the Boston Marathon.
Speaker 3 (12:01):
Bombers, Yeah, should we talk about those guys real quick?
Sure they were jerks too, Yeah, the sarenof brothers. They
blew up a couple of pressure cookers fashioned into bombs
at the finish line of the Boston Marathon, and the
FBI got on it pretty quick with getting photos released
(12:24):
of who they thought these guys were, which turned out
to be really key because after a kind of a
crazy scene where one of them was shot and killed
by the police, like throwing bombs at the cops.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
Yeah, it was quite a scene. Run over by his brother.
Speaker 3 (12:38):
And then the one I guess is that Zo Car.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
The da silent right, Yeah, Joe Kar or Jokar Joe Car.
Speaker 3 (12:45):
I think he is the one that ended up in
a residential neighborhood hiding in a boat under a tarp.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
Yeah, and he was.
Speaker 3 (12:54):
They sniffed him off the case with some infrared imaging
and basically it was like pred They're like, there's a
guy in that boat because I see his red body breathing.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
Right. So the reason that they found out that the
dude was in the boat was because the person who
owned the boat was in this area under the security
lockdown in containment, and was well aware thanks to the
local news and social media and everything else, that they
were looking for this guy. So when he saw that
(13:26):
there was a dude in his boat, he called the cops.
That's how the cops found suspect number two in the
Boston bombing case. Right.
Speaker 3 (13:33):
I bet that was a rush for that guy.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
I read about like what he said. I think he
was kind of scared.
Speaker 3 (13:39):
I'm sure, because it's pretty obvious, like you see a
guy there's a lockdown in your neighborhood, and you see
guy go climb under your boat tarp in their backyard.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
That's him. Yeah, you know, bleeding guy. I think he
was bleeding at the time. Even more reason so with
the Boston's a great case because it's recent, everybody knows
about it, but because it has like so many different
points to it that really kind of give you an
idea of what a manhunt consists of. So you've got containment,
you've got a door to door search, you've got the
(14:11):
public transportation being shut down. Yeah, that was a big one.
That's part of containment as well.
Speaker 3 (14:15):
Yeah, they set up a no fly zone, they closed
the schools, they closed, they shuttered businesses. It was basically
the biggest shutdown of a major US city in history.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
Right, People who were in the containment area were asked
to not leave their house. That horrid news speak. Shelter
in place.
Speaker 3 (14:35):
Yeah, yeah, term that just sounds like you should be
in a corner like.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
Shelter in place.
Speaker 3 (14:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
I remember a tweet from doctor Ruth while that was
going on. She's saying, Hey, if you're having the shelter
in place, maybe now's a good time to turn off
the TV and get intimate with your loved one. I
couldn't believe it. Wow.
Speaker 3 (14:55):
Yeah, they say they're still counting up the monies, but
it's tallying up to over a billion dollars for that
man hunt.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
What isn't that crazy? Somebody's milking that. You gotta think
billion dollars. I got a little sidebar, let's hear it.
Speaker 3 (15:09):
Not on a man hunt, but President Obama came through
my neighborhood a few months ago, like on his way
to school indicator for something cool, and literally drove like
down the block from my house the motorcade. Did did
you run out to him? Well, no, you can't that's
my point. Like my friend, you remember Chris Cox, his wife,
(15:31):
We ended up being stuck at the same intersection and
her house was across the street, like forty feet away.
She's like, sir, that is my house. I have a
babysitter there. I'm paying, Like, can I just walk across
the street. And he was like, nope, no, he would
not let her walk across the street and enter her
own home.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
You have no rights. The president is on your street.
Speaker 3 (15:51):
Yeah, and he wasn't even It took like another half
hour and she's like, I really just need to walk
right there, and he wouldn't allow it.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
Huh.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
So that's some serious lockdown. Is when the government wants
to lock you down, they can lock you down.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
Yeah, pretty much. Yeah, so chuck, uh, you do have rights, however.
Speaker 3 (16:08):
Well, yeah, it's a good segue.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
I guess it was a great segue, buddy. Yeah, if
you're in if you're being told not to leave your house,
first of all, you can technically leave your house, can you.
I think you just your risk of being shot at
by the police go through the roof. Maybe, So that's
a pretty good reason not to leave your house, just
(16:30):
out of common sense. You can be enraged. All you
want indoors, well, just like any other night, and the
police can't just come busting down your door saying is
he in here? No, okay, let's go kick down the
next door. They can knock and say can we come
in and look, and you can say yeah, your nay.
If they have probable cause, say one of them saw
(16:53):
the suspect run into your house, they can go in
after him without asking you.
Speaker 3 (16:57):
Yeah, Or if they're creeping around your backyard and peeking
in your wind, which they can do legally. Yeah, the
cops Yeah they can. They could, you know, see somebody
they think looks like the suspect and say that's probable cause.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
There's a there's a loophole big enough to drive like
an armored truck through if you're not picking up on that. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:16):
If they need to provide emergency services, they can do that.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
Yeah. They can say, oh, we thought you you needed CPR.
We're glad to see you're okay. Now that we're in
your house, we're looking around.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
Or another big loophole is the exigent circumstances, which I
don't know. In the case of Boston, they could probably
barge into anyone's home and be covered under that one.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
Yeah, it's basically like there were there's a state of
emergency going on, Like the civil law is just out
the window because the situation is so dire. And yeah,
they argued that this guy was running around with explosives.
That's an emergency. Sure, as far as I know, they
didn't like go into any houses unbidden though.
Speaker 3 (17:59):
Yeah, and we're not trying to say, like in a
case like that, like bust down some doors, you know,
Like I'm not saying like cops shouldn't be doing this stuff. Well,
there were like two bombers on the loose, so I
get it.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
Even still, the cops don't want to bust down a
door because they're going to have to prove exigence circumstances,
and if they can't, then any evidence that they got
from an unlawful searches out the door, and so their
case could be as well.
Speaker 3 (18:25):
Yeah, you gotta be careful stuff like that. Past thing
you want to do is have your purp walk you
like all.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
This cops speak, Yeah walk.
Speaker 3 (18:34):
Yeah, if you're purp walks because of bad, bad evidence,
then you're gonna be uh, what's.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
What's it called?
Speaker 3 (18:42):
When the cop gets eighty six eighty six suspended without pay.
I'm feeling like we're channeling the TV show episode we Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
Oh yeah, you're like we had a TV show. Yeah,
I just owned out about that. Okay, where are we then? Well?
I was saying that one of the hallmarks of a
good man hunt is having a lot of people doing
a lot of work. And again, Boston was a good
example of that. You had a lot of different law
enforcement agencies, basically ones you hadn't even heard of, all
(19:16):
ponying up personnel.
Speaker 3 (19:18):
Yeah, I mean you're gonna get state cops, local cops, sheriffs, FBI,
and that that's for a case like that, or obviously
if it's something like UBL then everyone seems you're a
dark thirty or if you haven't, you should. You've got
like thousands of people over a decade, all over the
world working together.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
It was just that one lady.
Speaker 3 (19:41):
It was just the one lady, the pretty redhead.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
So the author of this article makes a pretty good
point that during a man hunt there is such a
thing as what in police speak would be called collateral damage.
I guess sure. Like the LAPD search for Christopher Dorner
is a very good example of this. Do you remember
(20:05):
that case?
Speaker 3 (20:05):
Yeah, man, that was freaky.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
Yeah. There's like, there's a Facebook page it's twenty thousand
plus people strong that says it's called we Stand with
Christopher Dorner. Oh really yeah, because he left behind. So
he was an LAPD officer who was fired for making
a false accusation against another cop, right when he reported
that a cop he was working with kicked a homeless
(20:27):
man during an arrest. But that was false. It was
found false, and he was fired as a result. From
his perspective, if you see it through his through his eyes,
that was all just a huge cover up, and they
got rid of the troublemaker who was not, you know,
going with the flow on the force.
Speaker 3 (20:42):
The LAPD covering up seas right, that's weird.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
So he leaves this like angry manifesto about you know
how the LAPD is the most corrupt organization on the
planet and it's racist and yeah, there's a lot of
people out there who are like, I know this to
be true. Yeah, I've I've been on the wrong end
of a night stick with the LAPD.
Speaker 3 (21:03):
I've seen LA confidential, Yeah exactly, and that's in the forties. Yeah,
I mean it's that's I know they've cleaned it up
a lot, but that is one department in this country
that's been fraught with allegation.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
Yeah, and his point was they haven't cleaned it up
a lot, they've just gotten better at PR. So he
goes on, he takes the manifesto and ends up going
on in assassination killing spree, killing cops. Yeah, killed the
woman who represented him in his case, who is the
daughter of a cop.
Speaker 3 (21:31):
And it was announced like that's what's so scary about
it was like he was like, Hey, I'm coming to
kill cops. Exactly, You're not going to see me coming either.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
He was on a rampage. Yeah, it was scary stoff.
So the LAPD is super jumpy at this point and
they fire on not one but two cars that don't
have Christopher Dorner in them. Killed two people unbelievable as
a result. And finally there's this standoff after they find
him thanks to some Ark rangers in Big Bear or
(22:02):
Big Sir, one of the two they had Big Bear
Big Bear, and he ends up setting the cabin he's
in on fire and haishing in flames. That was crazy,
But the fact is two different cars were shot on
by the LAPD during the search for this guy. So
these aren't just necessarily clean affairs. Same with Ben Lawden.
(22:26):
You know, this was part of the campaign that took
place over a very long time and a lot of
people were killed to weaken the structure that was hiding him.
Speaker 3 (22:36):
Still, yeah, drone strikes out the wazoo.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
They used some.
Speaker 3 (22:40):
Pretty interesting tactics too that were not in the movie,
even though I've heard the movie is pretty accurate, but
they didn't include everything obviously. They sent a doctor in
a CIA guy who conducted an immunization drive in the
neighborhood where they believed his compound was there and basically
hoping to come across DNA from him or his family
(23:03):
under the guise of a blood drive.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
Right, it was an ammunization driver.
Speaker 3 (23:08):
Yeah, they didn't call it like, hey, it's a DNA collection,
right drive.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
But there was a big public outcry, especially from the
vaccine establishment, saying like, dude, you can't do that because
now our name is on that vaccine right and the
next time we want to have a real vaccine drive,
no one's going to show up, and our vaccination people
are going to get killed because they're going to think
they're CIA. Yeah, there's a big beef, a big hubbub
about that. That's legit.
Speaker 3 (23:34):
These days, it's tough, especially if you're in a city
like London, England, to do anything without being caught on
a closed circuit camera.
Speaker 2 (23:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (23:45):
In fact, that's how they eventually identified with the help
of actually one of the victims. In Boston, they were
on camera too, But if you're in a big city,
it's tough to get away with.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
Anything these days. Cameras are everywhere.
Speaker 3 (23:58):
They also have I mentioned the infrared device, the forward
looking infrared device, night vision. You've got all sorts of
tricks up your sleeve as law enforcement agencies. You think
you're hiding in a boat under a tarp, that's pretty safe.
You don't think about the dude with the predator camera
that can see you from you know, fifty feet away,
(24:20):
breathing heavily.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
Right.
Speaker 3 (24:22):
They also have like armored trucks. I think you mentioned those, yeah,
even not even about this.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
Like from Diehard.
Speaker 3 (24:28):
Yeah, and you see those things roll in like I'm
sure they love to play with those once a year.
Again that was LAPD Yeah, but those are very expensive,
but they do come in handy. I guess about once
a year if you can afford it, if your town's
large enough.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
We should say that there was facial recognition software that
they had working on the video for the Boston bombing
and it did not work.
Speaker 3 (24:52):
Yeah, we have an article on that. By the way,
I think we should cover that at some point.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
Facial recognition. Yeah, yeah, that's scary stuff. Google has one
that like they won't they won't release to the publicly
because they're afraid of the use it'll be put to.
It's like that good wow, and that potentially bad.
Speaker 3 (25:11):
But the one the CIA has doesn't work that well.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
I could see Google having way better algorithms than the CIA.
That's true, so chuck. Another aspect of Boston search, the
Boston man hunt, yeah, was the use of social media
for good and ill or did good effect and bad?
I should say, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (25:31):
Getting the word out on Facebook and Twitter is not
a bad idea.
Speaker 2 (25:33):
Yeah. Well, the Reddit was kind of the star of
the show or the scapegoat, I should say, for social
media in the search for the Boston bombing suspects, because
there were apparently like a couple thousand stills, video stills
and photographs from the area around the time. Of the
bombing posted on a reddit subreddit. Yeah, and all of
(25:58):
these people were like combing through like they were trying
to crowdsource this man hunt.
Speaker 3 (26:02):
Yeah, which is a good intention.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
Yeah, they were looking for suspects before anybody ever released
any official photos, and that in and of itself is
kind of a good idea, sure, but it went a
step further where the people on Reddit were saying, Okay,
I've got to figure it out, and it's this person,
and they would name a suspect, and all of a sudden,
(26:24):
there's a rumor out there that this person bombed the
Boston marathon, even though they hadn't so read. It took
a lot of heat for that, and apparently they even
took that forum down. But social media also helped in
a lot of ways because everybody was totally connected to
(26:45):
this man hunt and had completely up to the date,
information to the minute, information from within that containment area,
from everywhere, and I guess kind of helped a little
more than just passively watching television during a man hunt.
Speaker 3 (27:00):
You know the point one of my favorite man hunts,
and this is weird to say that, but actually, you
know what, let's take a break. I'm going to tease that,
and I'm going to reveal my favorite man hunt after
the break.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
Okay, So who is it. It's the Unibomber.
Speaker 3 (27:33):
Oh okay, Yeah, that's Kidzinski was on the LAMB for
eighteen years. One of the lengthiest manhunts in US history.
Not easy to hide out for that long and he
did it, which he did it in the wild of Montana.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
Just pretty good idea.
Speaker 3 (27:50):
I guess if you're going to hide out, just drop
off the map. Yeah, type manifestos. Actually Montana. They should
have been looking there, They should have been going there first.
But he mailed sixteen bombs over the course of quite
a few years and ended up killing three people, wounding
twenty three more, and had a million dollar bounty on
(28:11):
his head. Was one of the most wanted and eventually
he was rooted out by his own brother, who read
one of the manifestos and said that sounds like Teddy Yeah,
and went to the cops and said, hey, this guy
might be my brother. The writing style, the things he's
saying like it very well could be my brother.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
And it turned out that was him, right, So, which
is another another point for the case that for a
man hunt to work, you have to get the public involved,
and they did so by publishing these manifestos and said,
anybody familiar with this? Yeah, and the guy's brother said, yeah, me, Yeah,
same with Eric Robert Rudolph. Yeah, that's his name. I
(28:51):
don't remember how they caught him.
Speaker 3 (28:54):
I believe it was hikers in the woods, Okay, turned
him in. I might be wrong, but he was definitely
hiding out in the woods. And he was, of course
the Olympic bomber, not the guy they originally in pended on,
which was pretty.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
Sad, right. What was his name, Richard Jewel? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (29:09):
Man, I felt so bad for that dude.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (29:12):
Can you imagine, like life ruined?
Speaker 2 (29:15):
Yeah, and they compensated him pretty handsomely afterward. But then
he only lived a couple of several million. Oh yeah,
he died of a heart attack a few years after that.
Speaker 3 (29:24):
I don't think I knew that. Yeah, it's because he's like,
I'm eating steak in lobster every night. Now ask me
the drawn butter or Richard Jewel.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
Yeah, I didn't know he died. Yeah, And then so
back to online real quick. There's there's evidence that you
can crowdsource a man hunt. Yeah, there's a whole group
of people that live online that are into true crime,
that are that like use their interest in their online
search skills to try to find the identities of like
(29:53):
long lost serial killers. And there's all sorts of online
man hunts that amateurs take on. And apparently the State
Department held something called the Tag Challenge where they had
people hiding in cities around the world and people had
twelve hours online contestants had twelve hours to find them
(30:15):
in like these five different cities. That's fun, using just
mugshots and it worked. So they found that with a search,
as time becomes more of an essence, is the pressure
mount people stopped just shooting the info out to wherever
they can and start like really targeting, focusing their search.
(30:35):
And once you have a bunch of people doing that
who are really focused in searching, but a lot of
them and sharing information like on social media, that's when
they like a search and not just a manhunt or
search for a person, but a search for anything becomes
most successful.
Speaker 3 (30:53):
I guess, well, yeah, imagine in Boston, I bet every
thousands of people in that twenty square block radius are
looking out of their window.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
Oh yeah, for this dude. Yeah, so you've.
Speaker 3 (31:04):
Got thousands and thousands of more eyeballs. That's two eyeballs
per person in most cases, unless you're one of those
weird pirates Boston pirates. And that's just that helps you know, yeap,
as long as they're not out, don't grab their guns
and you know, get in position. Well, yeah, that's a scary.
Speaker 2 (31:23):
Well that's why they released the pictures of the suspects finally,
because they were trying to crack down on online vigil
anianism that could lead to real life vigilaniism.
Speaker 3 (31:32):
Yeah, so hats off to the dude who saw the
dude in the boat.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
You got anything else? I got nothing else? All right, Well,
if you want to learn more about manhunts, you can
tuck that word in the search bar at house Stuff Works.
And since I said search bar, that means it's time
for listener mail. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (31:53):
I'm going to call this Chess about Chess, and I'm
gonna read a couple of them, not here, but one
now and one another of so because we got a
lot of great feedback from Chest enthusiasts, I noticed people
dig this game.
Speaker 2 (32:06):
This is from David Wagner.
Speaker 3 (32:07):
Hey, guys, while you were discussing the concept of castling,
y'all said you didn't quite understand the value or strategy
behind it.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
You're right.
Speaker 3 (32:16):
It is all about protecting the king. Remember how you
pointed out that you want to control the center of
the board. Yes, that when your pieces are off to
the side, they're not as strong. Yes, well, that has
a lot to do with why you want to castle. Basically,
the king is more vulnerable, open to attacks and has
less protection when he remains in his original ear d square,
So you want to castle him and get him away
from those center squares.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
Gotcha.
Speaker 3 (32:38):
Also, you talk about the en passant rule, which is
one of my favorites and something almost.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
Never pass up.
Speaker 3 (32:45):
He's not like TV Herman, mostly because I get because
I rarely get a chance to implement it. It doesn't
happen when a pond passes another pawn though on its
first move out. It is when it lands next to
another pawn that the latter pond capture it. So I
think we screwed that up a little.
Speaker 2 (33:02):
Ye up, big time? Not big time. We were close. No,
I got that way wrong.
Speaker 3 (33:07):
Okay, one last thing and then I'll quit chess pieces.
You're gonna love this, and their's symbols on top. Many
of the basic pieces themselves serve as visual reminders of
how they can move. For example, the night is l shaped,
which is how it moves. The bishop's miter has a
diagonal slit in it. They move diagonally. The rook, when
(33:28):
seen from above, can move in the basic cardinal directions forward, back, left, right,
and on top of the rook there are turrets pointing
in all the cardinal directions.
Speaker 2 (33:36):
Nice.
Speaker 3 (33:37):
A queen has many points on her crown showing that
she can go in any way, any direction, and that
small little cross on top of the king lets you
know how far he can go, although that doesn't include
his diagonomos, which he can.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
Move in, so that on the whole theory kind of
falls apart there a little bit.
Speaker 3 (33:55):
But that is from David Wagner in Columbia, South Carolina.
Speaker 2 (33:59):
Nice, Thanks a lot, Wagner. That was a great email, pleasant, approachable,
gentle with the correction, just good stuff all around. You
can dance to it. You're right man. Way to go, Wagner.
If you want to send us an email or reach
out to us digitally to say hello or whatever, you
can tweet to us, join us on Twitter at sysk podcast,
(34:23):
join us on Facebook at facebook dot com, slash Stuff
you Should Know, or you can send us an email
to Stuff Podcast at HowStuffWorks dot com. Stuff you Should
Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts my
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