October 7, 2020 • 11 mins
After RBG passed away she had the honor of lying in state. Who decides this? Listen and you'll know.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
Hey, and welcome to the short Stuff. I'm Josh, there's
Chuck and this is short stuff, and uh, it's a
very solemn edition of short stuff. In fact, that's right
recently in real time, in semi recently in podcast time. Uh.
Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg passed away on September. I think
(00:25):
she deserves a full show on her, which we'll get
around too soon enough. But she died at seven from
complications from pancreatic cancer, and after serving for twenty seven
more than twenty seven years on the Supreme Court, she
became the first woman in American history to lie in
state in the US Capitol Building. Yeah, on Friday, September.
(00:50):
Like you said, our our time is a little off,
but as we're recording now, that's tomorrow she will be
the first woman to everly in state. UM and PEP,
we'll be able to um visit and they will hold
a UM a whole ceremony that we'll talk about. Um
and ceremony is the right word, because this is a
(01:12):
it's it's meant to be a very solemn, very ceremonial
occasion where the the nation is basically called to more
in a very important person who gave to the country
with all of her might, with with all of her will,
with all of her strength. Um, somebody like that is
important enough to say, Hey, as a country, no matter
(01:34):
how divided we are, we're going to more in this person.
And that is the entire point of lying in state.
That's right. Uh. And and now I'm confused whether we
should talk in past tense or future tense. We'll just
flip flop back and forth. It'll be like that movie Looper.
But she she also will lie in repose at the
Supreme Court, which is a different thing. Um, But lying
(01:58):
in state at the Capitol is quite an or. The
last time it happened was UM, Representative John Lewis right
here from Georgie's fifth district. Before that, it was Representative
Elijah Cummings. UM, I believe John McCain was only the
Senator to ever lie in state. So and he was
(02:18):
the last person from Congress to lie in state before
Cummings and Lewis, I believe. Yeah. And And the point
here is it's not like any politician that served the country,
uh is worthy of this honor, considering McCain was only
the thirteenth Senator. UM, I think only a handful of
private citizens, including Rosa Parks, have ever been honored as such,
(02:42):
and that was in two thousand five. Yeah, and being
a private citizen, Rosa Parks lied in um honor, which
is different, as we'll see, but lying in state is
a very distinct honor. UM. And it's actually, I don't
want to say fairly new. Was the first time, um,
it was done in the United States in the capital
(03:04):
was July one, eighteen fifty two, UM with Henry Clay
Um who was a Congressman from Kentucky and known as
the Great Compromiser. And he was honored because he had
um worked basically his entire political life to stave off
Civil War. UM. He failed posthumously, but during his lifetime
he managed to keep it from happening. And so he
(03:24):
was the first person to lie in state in the
United States capital. Right, So, uh, maybe we should take
a break. It's a little cliffhanger and tell everyone who
actually makes the decision on when this happens right after this,
(04:01):
all right, so drumroll please, it's Congress. They're nice. I
hope there was a high hat too when you said Congress.
I can't do a high hat. Although Uh, ironically, I
do have a drum set behind me in the day.
You go, just turn around, Chuck, this is a whole
other dimension we're just incorporate here. So Congress has to
(04:25):
propose this and approve of this. It could come by resolution.
Usually you don't have to have a resolution. Usually they
can just say, come on, can we just agree on
this one thing and not have to have an official
vote on this? Right, Congressional leadership just goes, hey, this
is what we're going to do, and nobody objects. Um Man.
(04:47):
There's so many political jokes I'm just avoiding right now.
But yes, that's exactly what happens for sure. But you
said something, Um, you said something before that. Not not
everybody gets this honor. Um, Lying in state, lying in
lying in honor are basically the same thing. It just
depends on whether you're an elected official and whether you're
(05:08):
a private citizen. It's much rare for a private citizen
to get it. But the only people who automatically are
offered the opportunity to have their remains lie in state
at the U. S. Capitol are presidents and ex presidents.
Isn't that right? Is that true? Yeah? Yeah, so um,
Congress can decide, hey, you're significant enough to to lie
(05:28):
in state. UM, but it's not automatic, right right unless
you're a president right right. So UM, So, like you said,
Congress has to propose it, and UM, when they do,
they alert UM this agency called the Architect of the Capital,
which I had not heard of before, UM until researching
this said do you uh, well, it's a different AOC,
(05:51):
that's for sure, right, Yeah, that's what they're known as,
is AOC, which I'm sure can be confusing, especially when
AOC eventually dies in office fifty years from now, um
and is lying in state. When the a o C
takes care of AOC's state funeral, that's right, the Architect
of the Capital in this case is notified. And basically, UM,
(06:13):
it's sort of like just like any event that you're
going to plan, UM, a lot of cleaning has to happen.
They like power washed the front of the building. They
wax and buff the floors. They want everything to look
top notch. They you know, they fabricate, Uh wouldn't stand
to hold the casket and polish everything up and they
just you know, you gotta get all the cobwebs out
(06:35):
of there. For something like this, that's all right. You
know you've arrived when their powerwashing the capital for your um,
your funeral you're viewing, you know. Yeah, And I also
wonder what that government contract looks like. Right, So the
the the stand that they put your coffin on. Sometimes
they construct them, for sure, but they also have one.
(06:57):
Those things are called um catafalt, and a cattle falk
is just that it's a decorative, ornamental stand that a
coffin is resting on. And so when you see um
images of somebody lying in state, look at what their
coffin's on. And if they're a president, there's a really
good chance that that's a pine cattle falque that was
first built to hold Lincoln's remains uh in eighteen sixty five, which,
(07:23):
my goodness, I can't imagine too many higher honors than
being placed having your coffin placed on the cattle folk
that was originally constructed for Abraham Lincoln. Yeah, what I'm
curious about is, UM, if the wishes of the person
or the president is to be cremated post taste, what
they do, I don't know. I would guess that they
(07:44):
would probably revise the you know, build a different cattle
falque or you know whatever. I would hope that they
would they would UM acknowledge that the dying persons who
is lying in state's final wish, no matter what it is,
is UM. But I think you have to you would
think so. But the I would guess that they would
(08:06):
do that for sure. UM, they would just adjust their
their um their m O basically. But they The thing
is is, you can also say I don't want to
lie in state in any form, whether cremated or anything
like that, or your family can say that. And in fact,
Truman's family and Nixon's family both declined the honor of
(08:27):
lying of having the remains of those former presidents lying
in state in the capital and instead, I know Nixon
for sure was just lying in repose in his library
and your Belinda, And the only difference between lying and
repose and lying in state is whether you're basically on
public display as part of a state funeral or not.
(08:48):
If it's part of a state funeral, you're lying in state.
If it's not, you're lying in repose. And so UM
Justice renquests. Um family also declined the offer, and in
dead he lay in repose at in the Supreme Court building.
That's right. And I don't think we mentioned this all
takes place at the rotunda. Uh, that's the floor they're
(09:10):
buffing and shining up. UM. There's obviously got to be
a spot for media. They set up these risers because
there's an actual ceremony hosted by congressional leadership, and you know,
you've got to have all the just the nuts and
bolts in place, the lighting and the microphones, and like
I said, it's like any other event. They just wanted
to go down very smoothly and very respectfully and by
(09:31):
all accounts, very cleanly. Yeah, power washed and everything. Right.
So there was this anthropologist that this house stuff Works
article UM interviewed and UM her name is Shannon Lee Doughty,
and she is an anthropologist at University of Chicago, and
she puts this really beautifully. She said that the ceremonies
like laying in state, lying in state, UM are meant
(09:54):
to embalm an idea that basically, this person, especially upon
their death, becomes like this electrified, um concentrated reminder of
national spirit of you know, America itself, of UM, all
of the things that are good about America that that
(10:16):
like their work in life and everything they did, especially
in death, when people, you know, forget about everything else
and really focus on the good things that the person did,
that those good things are really about pushing the country
forward or keeping the country in a good, good state,
and that that's one of the reasons the main reason
for for lying in state is to really just kind
(10:37):
of say, hey, everybody, just let's remember all this, let's
focus on that. To embalm an idea, I thought that
was a really good way to put it. Yeah, to
unite the country for for to twelve hours tops tops.
I know that's a cynical view, but that's kind of
the truth. Cynicism and um rationalism are basically interchange bull
(11:00):
these days, it feels like that's a good quote too. Thanks, Chuck,
I appreciate that. Um you got anything else about lying
in state? I got nothing else. I look forward to
doing so myself. Yeah, me too. I'll be sitting there
weeping over your casket, wailing for days on and Chuck,
I appreciate that. Well, that's it for us, that's it
for lying in state. That's it for short stuff. Short
(11:21):
stuff is out stuff you should know is a production
of iHeart radios. How stuff works. For more podcasts My
heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or
wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Hey, and welcome to the short Stuff. I'm Josh, there's
Chuck and this is short stuff, and uh, it's a
very solemn edition of short stuff. In fact, that's right
recently in real time, in semi recently in podcast time. Uh.
Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg passed away on September. I think
(00:25):
she deserves a full show on her, which we'll get
around too soon enough. But she died at seven from
complications from pancreatic cancer, and after serving for twenty seven
more than twenty seven years on the Supreme Court, she
became the first woman in American history to lie in
state in the US Capitol Building. Yeah, on Friday, September.
(00:50):
Like you said, our our time is a little off,
but as we're recording now, that's tomorrow she will be
the first woman to everly in state. UM and PEP,
we'll be able to um visit and they will hold
a UM a whole ceremony that we'll talk about. Um
and ceremony is the right word, because this is a
(01:12):
it's it's meant to be a very solemn, very ceremonial
occasion where the the nation is basically called to more
in a very important person who gave to the country
with all of her might, with with all of her will,
with all of her strength. Um, somebody like that is
important enough to say, Hey, as a country, no matter
(01:34):
how divided we are, we're going to more in this person.
And that is the entire point of lying in state.
That's right. Uh. And and now I'm confused whether we
should talk in past tense or future tense. We'll just
flip flop back and forth. It'll be like that movie Looper.
But she she also will lie in repose at the
Supreme Court, which is a different thing. Um, But lying
(01:58):
in state at the Capitol is quite an or. The
last time it happened was UM, Representative John Lewis right
here from Georgie's fifth district. Before that, it was Representative
Elijah Cummings. UM, I believe John McCain was only the
Senator to ever lie in state. So and he was
(02:18):
the last person from Congress to lie in state before
Cummings and Lewis, I believe. Yeah. And And the point
here is it's not like any politician that served the country,
uh is worthy of this honor, considering McCain was only
the thirteenth Senator. UM, I think only a handful of
private citizens, including Rosa Parks, have ever been honored as such,
(02:42):
and that was in two thousand five. Yeah, and being
a private citizen, Rosa Parks lied in um honor, which
is different, as we'll see, but lying in state is
a very distinct honor. UM. And it's actually, I don't
want to say fairly new. Was the first time, um,
it was done in the United States in the capital
(03:04):
was July one, eighteen fifty two, UM with Henry Clay
Um who was a Congressman from Kentucky and known as
the Great Compromiser. And he was honored because he had
um worked basically his entire political life to stave off
Civil War. UM. He failed posthumously, but during his lifetime
he managed to keep it from happening. And so he
(03:24):
was the first person to lie in state in the
United States capital. Right, So, uh, maybe we should take
a break. It's a little cliffhanger and tell everyone who
actually makes the decision on when this happens right after this,
(04:01):
all right, so drumroll please, it's Congress. They're nice. I
hope there was a high hat too when you said Congress.
I can't do a high hat. Although Uh, ironically, I
do have a drum set behind me in the day.
You go, just turn around, Chuck, this is a whole
other dimension we're just incorporate here. So Congress has to
(04:25):
propose this and approve of this. It could come by resolution.
Usually you don't have to have a resolution. Usually they
can just say, come on, can we just agree on
this one thing and not have to have an official
vote on this? Right, Congressional leadership just goes, hey, this
is what we're going to do, and nobody objects. Um Man.
(04:47):
There's so many political jokes I'm just avoiding right now.
But yes, that's exactly what happens for sure. But you
said something, Um, you said something before that. Not not
everybody gets this honor. Um, Lying in state, lying in
lying in honor are basically the same thing. It just
depends on whether you're an elected official and whether you're
(05:08):
a private citizen. It's much rare for a private citizen
to get it. But the only people who automatically are
offered the opportunity to have their remains lie in state
at the U. S. Capitol are presidents and ex presidents.
Isn't that right? Is that true? Yeah? Yeah, so um,
Congress can decide, hey, you're significant enough to to lie
(05:28):
in state. UM, but it's not automatic, right right unless
you're a president right right. So UM, So, like you said,
Congress has to propose it, and UM, when they do,
they alert UM this agency called the Architect of the Capital,
which I had not heard of before, UM until researching
this said do you uh, well, it's a different AOC,
(05:51):
that's for sure, right, Yeah, that's what they're known as,
is AOC, which I'm sure can be confusing, especially when
AOC eventually dies in office fifty years from now, um
and is lying in state. When the a o C
takes care of AOC's state funeral, that's right, the Architect
of the Capital in this case is notified. And basically, UM,
(06:13):
it's sort of like just like any event that you're
going to plan, UM, a lot of cleaning has to happen.
They like power washed the front of the building. They
wax and buff the floors. They want everything to look
top notch. They you know, they fabricate, Uh wouldn't stand
to hold the casket and polish everything up and they
just you know, you gotta get all the cobwebs out
(06:35):
of there. For something like this, that's all right. You
know you've arrived when their powerwashing the capital for your um,
your funeral you're viewing, you know. Yeah, And I also
wonder what that government contract looks like. Right, So the
the the stand that they put your coffin on. Sometimes
they construct them, for sure, but they also have one.
(06:57):
Those things are called um catafalt, and a cattle falk
is just that it's a decorative, ornamental stand that a
coffin is resting on. And so when you see um
images of somebody lying in state, look at what their
coffin's on. And if they're a president, there's a really
good chance that that's a pine cattle falque that was
first built to hold Lincoln's remains uh in eighteen sixty five, which,
(07:23):
my goodness, I can't imagine too many higher honors than
being placed having your coffin placed on the cattle folk
that was originally constructed for Abraham Lincoln. Yeah, what I'm
curious about is, UM, if the wishes of the person
or the president is to be cremated post taste, what
they do, I don't know. I would guess that they
(07:44):
would probably revise the you know, build a different cattle
falque or you know whatever. I would hope that they
would they would UM acknowledge that the dying persons who
is lying in state's final wish, no matter what it is,
is UM. But I think you have to you would
think so. But the I would guess that they would
(08:06):
do that for sure. UM, they would just adjust their
their um their m O basically. But they The thing
is is, you can also say I don't want to
lie in state in any form, whether cremated or anything
like that, or your family can say that. And in fact,
Truman's family and Nixon's family both declined the honor of
(08:27):
lying of having the remains of those former presidents lying
in state in the capital and instead, I know Nixon
for sure was just lying in repose in his library
and your Belinda, And the only difference between lying and
repose and lying in state is whether you're basically on
public display as part of a state funeral or not.
(08:48):
If it's part of a state funeral, you're lying in state.
If it's not, you're lying in repose. And so UM
Justice renquests. Um family also declined the offer, and in
dead he lay in repose at in the Supreme Court building.
That's right. And I don't think we mentioned this all
takes place at the rotunda. Uh, that's the floor they're
(09:10):
buffing and shining up. UM. There's obviously got to be
a spot for media. They set up these risers because
there's an actual ceremony hosted by congressional leadership, and you know,
you've got to have all the just the nuts and
bolts in place, the lighting and the microphones, and like
I said, it's like any other event. They just wanted
to go down very smoothly and very respectfully and by
(09:31):
all accounts, very cleanly. Yeah, power washed and everything. Right.
So there was this anthropologist that this house stuff Works
article UM interviewed and UM her name is Shannon Lee Doughty,
and she is an anthropologist at University of Chicago, and
she puts this really beautifully. She said that the ceremonies
like laying in state, lying in state, UM are meant
(09:54):
to embalm an idea that basically, this person, especially upon
their death, becomes like this electrified, um concentrated reminder of
national spirit of you know, America itself, of UM, all
of the things that are good about America that that
(10:16):
like their work in life and everything they did, especially
in death, when people, you know, forget about everything else
and really focus on the good things that the person did,
that those good things are really about pushing the country
forward or keeping the country in a good, good state,
and that that's one of the reasons the main reason
for for lying in state is to really just kind
(10:37):
of say, hey, everybody, just let's remember all this, let's
focus on that. To embalm an idea, I thought that
was a really good way to put it. Yeah, to
unite the country for for to twelve hours tops tops.
I know that's a cynical view, but that's kind of
the truth. Cynicism and um rationalism are basically interchange bull
(11:00):
these days, it feels like that's a good quote too. Thanks, Chuck,
I appreciate that. Um you got anything else about lying
in state? I got nothing else. I look forward to
doing so myself. Yeah, me too. I'll be sitting there
weeping over your casket, wailing for days on and Chuck,
I appreciate that. Well, that's it for us, that's it
for lying in state. That's it for short stuff. Short
(11:21):
stuff is out stuff you should know is a production
of iHeart radios. How stuff works. For more podcasts My
heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or
wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
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