November 3, 2020 • 45 mins
Roberto Clemente was what’s called a “complete” baseball player – he could hit, run and, man could he throw, so it’s no surprise he was made a Hall of Famer. But he was also a humanitarian, a civil rights icon, and a fiercely proud son of Puerto Rico.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of five
Heart Radios How Stuff Works. M Hey, welcome to the podcast.
I'm Josh Clark. There's Charles W. Chuck Bryan over there,
(00:24):
and Jerry too. God I mentioned Jerry, and this is
Stuff Today. You should know. I'm surprised you picked this topic. Why.
I just I don't recognize you as a baseball guy.
Oh man. Probably the first thing I was ever truly
(00:49):
into was baseball cards, like getting the newest edition of
like the Beckett's Price Guide. It was like one of
my like the highlights of my month when whenever. Really yeah,
for a few years I was super into baseball cards.
It was funny. It is like I would still I'd
watch baseball here there, but it was baseball cards in
particular I really cared about. But yeah, I didn't really
(01:10):
watch baseball. No, not really interesting, but I really loved
baseball cards. Like. I wasn't like, oh I hate baseball,
but I love baseball cards. I wasn't like complicating complex
like that. It was just I didn't watch I liked
baseball courts cards more than I liked baseball itself. That's
all I got. You were you a Roberto Clemente fan. Well,
(01:31):
I mean he was. He was playing his final years
when I was being born, so I was not a fan.
But I grew up obviously a Braves fan. But the
in the mid nineteen seventies when I first started being
a baseball fan, the Pittsburgh Pirates uh had a couple
of really good teams, and he was, um, he was
(01:53):
not long gone before those years, so his aura was
still sort of ever present when I first started watching
baseball and the Pirates when they had those great, awful
uh stovetop flat caps. Oh I love those things. But yeah,
on their own, just as an article of fashion, their horrid,
(02:14):
But they were so unique and different too, you know. Yeah,
I mean they were. They rank among the worst uniforms,
but you know, they're just very seventies. So yeah, they
are super seventies. I think that's why I love I
love them that at the seven. I think they were
a throwback to the old old days. So that was
the original person. But yeah, I don't think they like
(02:36):
invented those caps. I think like some of the early
baseball caps might have been flat like that. I might
be wrong. I did not know that. Um. I think
the Astros had the best seventies uniform of all, though
they rank as one of the worst two. Oh, you're crazy,
you have terrible tastes. I'm just talking about if you
look up articles like worst Baseball Uniforms, ever, those are
(02:57):
the ones that are listed. Okay, well, then you're not crazy.
But whoever is writing those articles is crazy. I assume
you're talking about the Orange Shooting Star. Yeah, with like
red and blue, it's very pretty Okay, Okay, So anyway,
we're not talking about fashion or uniforms or anything like that.
(03:18):
Although this is not at all surprising that we even
started on this. We're talking about one particular player who
wore that funny looking Pirates hat, Roberto Clemente, who was
so well, then what are we even doing that came
along after him? What's the point of even doing this episode?
Then if he never wore a hat. I'm just I'm
(03:39):
just trying to get keep Pittsburgh people from emailing us.
And then I appreciate that, Chuck, I appreciate it. Um.
So we're we are talking about a Pittsburgh pirate, Roberto Clemente,
and I knew like I knew of him. I was
aware of him. I knew that he's one of the
all time grades hadn't seen many plays of his, but um,
like you can't. You can't be into baseball and not
(04:01):
know about Roberto Clemente. But I definitely didn't know nearly
as much about him as I do now. Um, thanks
to this help from Rous, who apparently was raised to
Pittsburgh Pirates fans, so he had plenty of good things
to say about Roberto Clemente. Yeah, I think maybe we
should take off a few of these career stats just
to give you an idea of who we're talking about here. Uh,
(04:22):
lifetime batting average of three seventeen, which if you if
you don't know anything about baseball and you think a
success rate oft is terrible. It is in almost everything
else in life, but in baseball, that means you're a
Hall of Famer. That's how hard it is to hit
a baseball, right, I was gonna say, it really goes
to show how difficult hitting baseball's in the major leagues are.
(04:45):
You know, Yeah, you hit three out of ten and
you're great. I think I've said that before on the show.
But he got twelve gold gloves in the right field, Uh,
led the league in and batting the National League. That
is four different times, two World Series Champion Chips, m
v P nine MVP of the World Series, and seventy
one where hebett at four or fourteen, which is just
(05:07):
crazy good. I think sixteen time All Star just really
just an amazing career um and obviously instant Hall of
Fame career. Yeah, and he was really well known for
his arm, like he would throw people out at home
from right field, from the outfield, he could throw without
a bounce, He could throw all the way in and
(05:28):
beat a runner to third or to home, which is
just amazing, and it was one of the things that
really got people excited about him and watching him play.
But like, if you look at just his stats, especially
taken individually, like he was a great player and one
of the all time grades, but statistically speaking, it doesn't
necessarily show up, like there's plenty of people who have
(05:49):
better stats. But one of the things that made Roberto
clement Is such an amazing baseball player is he was
one of the true what are called complete players or
a five to a player where he could run, he
could throw, he could bat, he could field, and like
I keep I keep forgetting what the fifth one is,
but he could he could like sell cracker Jack's in
(06:11):
the stand like nobody's business as well. You've got an
actual baseball guy on the other end of the call here,
you know who me? Oh, okay, well, Mr baseball guy,
if it's not selling cracker jacks, what's the fifth tool?
Use me at your disposal. It's a hit for power
and hit for average. So there's two hittings. That's the
(06:32):
Oh well, whoever knows that? Nobody knows that you can't
just use the same thing twice and call it five tools. Well, no,
you can, because a lot of players can have a
big boomstick, but they bat like two thirty. But if
you can hit for average and hit for power, that's
a big big deal. And if you can make the
most exciting playing baseball to me, which is a right
(06:55):
field to third base assist, then uh, I mean, there's
nothing more thrilling to me. It's really amazing to see.
For sure. It definitely more than even home plate for
some reason, probably because it's further one of the other
things that I think people loved about Roberto Clemente, and
I think that made him such a true baseball player
In a lot of people's eyes, at least in mind.
But he was very well known for going after pitches
(07:17):
that other people would have taken as a ball, clear
balls well high and outside high and inside low and whatever.
And he would go after him, and he would hit
him a lot of the time, which is one reason
why his batting average was so high, because he would
go after those pitches that other people, um would just
let go by, and then in hitting them, he would
(07:37):
send him into places where you wouldn't expect him. Being
a right handed bat or two hit so he could
get to base pretty pretty um frequently too. He also
was a fast runner, but he ran like he was
out of his mind completely. Yeah, it's it's pretty fun
to see him run. He would hit pitch outs, which,
if you, like I said, if you don't know baseball,
(07:59):
pitch out is when uh, there's somebody on first base
and the catcher signals to the picture right before they
throw that the gown first is gonna steal second, so
they throw it completely out of the strikes. The catcher
can stand up and catch it to make the throat
a second and that's called the pitch out. It's not
not even a real pitch. And he would swing and
(08:21):
hit pitch outs, which is that's awesome. No one does that.
It's unheard of. It's crazy. Yeah, that is crazy. So
it suffice to say that Roberto Clemente is one of
the great baseball players of all time because he had
it all. But it was also, it turns out, but
really great human being in a lot of ways too.
He was an activist for civil rights during the civil
(08:41):
rights era um and he was also a humanitarian as
we'll see, like he really cared about other people and
especially the plight of people who were less fortunate than
him because he came from less fortunate circumstances to begin with,
and he never forgot it. Like he was genuinely one
of those guys who never let his fame get to
(09:02):
his head. In the ways that he let his fame
get to his head was in say animosity towards the
sporting press or or saying like, you guys aren't giving
me enough credit for being what a great player I am.
That was separate. That was different when it came to
people outside of baseball, just everyday people he was He
was friends with those people throughout his whole career in life. Yes,
(09:24):
and that is why Major League Baseball has honored him
with the Roberto Clemente Award every year, which is given
to the player that they feel best represents the humanitarian
and humanitarian and philanthropic side of the game or outside
the game rather. So quite quite an honor to have
an award named after you. So I think we should
(09:45):
take a break and then maybe go back to the
beginning where and when he was born? Right after this? Alrighty, So,
(10:19):
clement A was born in Puerto Rico. He's born in
a little town called Carolina or Carolina, and it was
sugarcane territory, sugarcane plantations, and his dad he was actually
born Roberto Clemente Walker. His mother's maiden name was Walker
and his father's name was clement A, so he used
both until he got into baseball. And he was born
(10:41):
in the middle of the Great Depression. Uh, the youngest
of seven kids. Very tough way to be born into life,
it was. But I mean, like if you're you know,
if you come from a farming family, it makes sense,
you know, oh, to have a lot of kids. Yeah, sure,
And plus you have a lot of people with as
you're growing up too. That is very true. So UM
(11:04):
he his father was actually a foreman on a sugarcane plantation.
UM and his mom was a huge influence in his life.
I get the impression slightly more of an influence than
his father was even But one of the things that
um she had hoped for her son was that he
would become uh, he would study engineering. I'm not sure why,
(11:25):
but she wanted him to become an engineer, and he said, yeah,
I really like playing baseball, like to the point where
he and his brothers and his friends would make baseballs
out of whatever was handy, Like they would put like
stones in a sock, they would wad up paper tape,
whatever they could get their hands on, and use whatever
they could for a bat, and they would play baseball.
(11:46):
And then as they got a little older and started
to start playing in school, they had actual equipment to
play with and they would just play constantly. I read
he had ten home runs once in a game that
started at eleven am and ended after six because they
just kept playing and playing and playing like that's all
he wanted to do was play baseball. And one of
(12:06):
the reasons why is because he was really really good
at it. From a very young age. Yeah, I think
the UM I have a theory about Caribbean players that
they developed so well because so many of them don't
have the right gear growing up, and especially back then,
because if you're out there with a broomstick and a
bottle cap, imagine what that does for your hand eye
(12:29):
coordination to when you have like a real barrel of
a baseball bat and a baseball Like it's no wonder
that he could hit anything if you're growing up hitting
bottle caps. And this wasn't just him, so many Dominican
and Puerto Rican and Cuban um and now just all
over the place. Uh, in the Caribbean players are coming
up and they I think they make do with less
(12:50):
as children and that really really hones their skills in
ways that UM And you know, there's a baseball problem
in America period like that far or far fewer kids
are growing up playing baseball now and there's far fewer
American baseball players now as a result. So one of
the reason Chucky is super into baseball was because the
whole island of Puerto Rico was into baseball at the time,
(13:11):
like it had been exported a couple of decades before
he was born. From Cuba to Puerto Rico. And then
also by the time he was playing UM, the Puerto
Rican UM baseball leagues had really developed into something substantial
and they played their season in the winner. So if
you were an American ballplayer, UM, you could play in
(13:35):
your off season down in the Caribbean is specifically in
Puerto Rico, among other places. But Puerto Rico is a
really attractive place to play because they were so into it.
There were so many teams and so many good players
already down there. But one of the yeah, but one
of the ways that it developed was from especially necro
(13:55):
league players making their way down there in the off
season to play UM. I've leave. Roberto Clemente actually played
a season with Willie Mays himself, and Willie Mays had
just led the New York Giants to the to win
the World Series, and a couple of months later he
was down in Puerto Rico playing during the winter the
Winter leagues, because that's just what you did when you
(14:18):
really wanted to play baseball, you go down to the
Caribbean in the wintertime. Yeah, it's something that still happens,
and it's mainly what you see now as players younger
players play winter ball in Puerto Rico too. Uh, just
hone their skills and to get better. It's not something
you see a lot of veterans doing. Um. That's why
it's pretty remarkable and I think shows the love of
(14:38):
his country in the game that clement A played winter
ball like every year through his career. Yeah. One of
the reasons I saw that he did that was because
he knew that most of the people who lived in
Puerto Rico wouldn't be able to afford to go up
to the States to watch him play, and he wanted
to for them to be able to see him play,
so he played every year. Another thing, it was, like
you were saying, some of those younger players hone their
(14:59):
skills UM down there. He kept his skills honed by
playing winner ball like, he kept his swing loose, and
he he didn't fall out of um shape ever, because
he played baseball basically year round for eighteen twenty years. Yeah.
So by the time he hits fourteen, he's recruited to
(15:19):
play UM softball, which is a little weird, but it
was a competitive softball team, uh, and then eventually an
amateur baseball team and was making I think like forty
bucks a week at seventeen playing amateur baseball in Puerto Rico.
And this was, uh, you know, this was a time
where you didn't have baseball scouts combing the Caribbean for
(15:42):
the next new young talent. It was, it was it
was a very new idea to go to the Caribbean
defined players, and not a lot of teams. I mean,
most teams were doing it a little bit, but they
didn't have the robust scouting programs down there like they
do now. And they sent, uh the Dodgers of Brooklyn
Dodgers who very famously broke the color barrier um with
(16:04):
Jackie Robinson and forty seven sent a scout name Al
Kimpanis who went down to Puerto Rico saw nineteen year
old Roberto Clemente in n and said, this guy is
a five tool dynamo and we need we need to
get him up here as fast as we can. And
it wasn't I mean, that was actually kind of um
(16:26):
insightful of him because it wasn't readily obvious, especially very
early in his career. Um when he was playing with
the UH where they called the Kendra Harris the crabbers
um that he was just gonna be one of the
all time greats because he swung at lots of pitches
that other people wouldn't have swung at. He ran like
(16:47):
he was crazy. Um, he was still finding his his skills.
But to be able to see how great he was
going to be UM at that young stage, I mean,
that's a that's a credit to that. What was his name,
camp Annis is um I for talent, Yeah, yeah. And
he went on to be a lifelong baseball executive I
think retired uh in shame for some like uh racial
(17:11):
statements he made, but longtime baseball guy. But the Dodgers
got Clemente. And there was a thing there was a
rule back then from seven nineteen sixty five that they
got rid of UH in sixty five for a very
good reason. That was a little bit weird if you're
a baseball fan today because it's so different now. But
(17:31):
the rule was that if you were UH player that
was signed for more than four thousand dollars as a
signing bonus, then you had to be on a major
league baseball roster for two full seasons UH and if
you weren't, then you would become part of the rookie
draft and clement A was signed for I think ten
(17:51):
thousand dollars and I'm not sure why they signed him
for that much. Maybe he wouldn't have gone for less,
but it was not a great move. But because this
meant that the Dodgers had to either take him to
the major leagues for two full seasons, which was not
a good call because most players in baseball start out
in the minor leagues. In fact, all do. No one
makes that jump straight to the major leagues, even if
(18:14):
it's just like a cursory half season or so, but
that's even really rare. But they they kept him in
the minor leagues and their plan was to hide him
and literally it would he would go like two months
between starts because they didn't want they wanted to get
those two seasons out of the way because after those
two years, you could send someone to the minor leagues.
(18:35):
But it didn't work. Um people saw him play and
even though he didn't get to play much in the
Pittsburgh Pirates really homed in on him right away. So yeah,
the Pittsburgh Pirates were um lead. I think their GM
was branch Rickey, who was the guy who had scouted
Jackie Robinson and got him onto the Dodgers. Now he
(18:55):
worked for the Pirates, so he ended up getting his
hands on Roberto clement Inte and brought him to the Pirates.
And so apparently when they found out, or when Clemente
found out that he had been drafted by the Pirates,
he was down in Puerto Rico, and he said later
on that he had he didn't really know where Pittsburgh was.
He he had been excited to play for New York
(19:16):
because there's a big Puerto Rican community in New York,
and all of a sudden he sent off to Pittsburgh,
doesn't know where it is and doesn't really know anybody.
So this is kind of his his entree into UM America.
But it actually was even rougher than that, because first
he started out I guess on Pittsburgh's UM minor league
team or and that's what it was. It was in
(19:37):
spring training down in Fort Myers Beach, Florida, UM, and
he came face to face with the stark reality of
of basically Jim Crow South in UM the fifties. The
first thing when he got to America, and he he
was one of the reasons I said earlier he was
a civil rights actors because he did not take very
(19:58):
kindly to that and wrestled and railed against it from
the outset. Yeah, he didn't. He didn't have any uh,
he didn't have any frame of reference for this, Like
he came from Puerto Rico, where this wasn't a thing.
He um was of African descent, so two Americans. He
(20:18):
was a black man to him, he was Puerto Rican.
He was caught between two worlds and didn't understand why
he had to stay in a different hotel or eating
a different restaurant than his white UH teammates. And so
this really upset him. And what upset him even as
much was how his other black teammates on the team
understood it and just basically had to take it because
(20:41):
they were afraid if they caused a ruckus that they
would be sent back down to the minors. And he
was just like, you shouldn't be deferential, like what is
going on in this country? And he he would speak
to the sporting press about this stuff, and the sporting
press either would just ignores comments about that or actually, yes,
they would ignore his comments about it and they would
just talk about whatever he said about the game. But
(21:03):
then to kind of heap um the sense that he
was an outsider and an outsider that wasn't respected because
he was looked down upon because of his race and
his his um origin. Um. They would quote him phonetically
in the press. So when he said, you know, um,
I think he said there was a headline that famously
(21:23):
said like I get a hit, I feel good, but
they spelled it out like I get heat h E
E T is how they spelled hit, I feel good.
That was a headline in the Pittsburgh newspapers after a
really big game. And he found that extremely demeaning. Uh,
and it actually really kind of framed the way that
(21:46):
he felt about America. Um. Yeah, it framed how he
felt about America. And don't forget like Puerto Rico was,
you know, by this time, it was an American territory
have been for quite a while, so people in Puerto
Rico had long considered themselves American. People in America didn't
consider Puerto Ricans, they considered them ethnic, and they Roberto
(22:10):
Clemento was treated just like any other person from Puerto Rico,
which was not very well back then. Yeah, So his
reputation started to develop as a loner. It's a very
moody player. The Pirates were a really bad team. I
don't think we mentioned that UM at the time, just terrible,
like one of the worst teams in baseball. He didn't
(22:30):
catch on in his first few years there either. I
think in his first five seasons he only hit over
three hundred one time, and a lot of this was
due to injury. He had a car accident that hurt
his back, so his back was all jacked up for
a while. UM he had other you know, injuries along
the way, and he would he wasn't shy about talking
about it. He would complain to the manager, he complain
(22:51):
to the press about his injuries. And this baseball is
still kind of this way, or most sports are actually
is you kind of don't take that stuff public. You
don't want to be seen as someone who UM either
fake's injury because they don't want to play, or who
just who complains about it too much. So he didn't
have the best reputation early on because a lot of
(23:11):
this stuff. Yeah, I know, he was thought to be
a complainer, a hypochondriac, moody, UM, abrasive, egotistical, and that
was something that like that's indisputable is the egotistical part,
because he was he knew that he was playing better
than he was getting credit for and it ticked him
off because he knew the reason he wasn't getting credit
(23:32):
for it was because he didn't act the way that
the white sporting press expected him to act, and they
they didn't like him for it, so they didn't really
give him any any credit, and they actually withheld credit
that was definitely due him for the way he was playing.
But like you said, I mean it took a few
years for him to start to catch on. But even
(23:53):
after he did, which first began in the nineteen sixty
World Series UM when the Pirates went from I don't
know if they went for worst to first, but it
was pretty close to something like that. Um, he was
he was passed over as the World Series m v
P UM I think like a lefty relief pitcher got
more votes than he did, despite him being one of
(24:15):
the clear heroes of that series. UM. And he really
was not happy about that, and it really kind of
created this this lifelong animosity with the sporting press that
had already been brewing, but that one, to him showed
that they were basically working against him at that point. Yeah,
and I think was a pretty bittersweet ear because it
(24:38):
was his breakout ear. Uh. If this status right, Dave
says his average never dropped below three hundred, then that
means he that means he was hitting three hundred in
Game one, which is pretty remarkable to start out that
hot and to maintain it over the course of a year. Right,
But if you've been playing winner ball in the Caribbean,
like just just a couple of weeks before of that,
(25:00):
it would make sense, you know. Yeah, and he uh,
you know, they won the World Series, which is a big,
big deal in Pittsburgh, but he didn't feel like he
was getting his due, like you said, so he didn't
go off and celebrate with his fans. Um, he kind
of went off to himself. He was happy, but it said,
uh the quote was unhappy but not but unconcerned with
(25:21):
all the fanfare, is what a reporter said. And he
just wanted to get back home to Puerto Rico so
he could use his World Series bonus money to buy
a house for his mother. And he was loved there,
so you know, he wanted to get back to where
he was um cherished and and he did. When he
went back to Puerto Rico, he was a national hero
and the press like followed him everywhere he went, and
(25:44):
the kids loved him, and he bought a big Cadillac
and mentored all the kids. So it's not like he
went back like um like Elvis and just sort of
lived high on the hog, like he did, go back
a hero, but he really really got involved with the
community right away. Yeah, he kept playing. He would mentor
little kids who were um learning to play sports, and
(26:05):
that actually became one of his dreams. Is he wanted
to um make enough money and get big enough to
build a sports complex of sports city or Sad de Portez.
Not bad um if I compare myself on the back
for that one where kids could learn to um play.
(26:25):
But also you know that, like you didn't have much
of a role model, is the kind of place you
could find a role model too, and not just play baseball,
but also play maybe basketball or whatever sports um you
wanted to play. And that I think that that was
at the very least on his mind back then, if
not like one of his stated goals in his life.
By the time roll around he went back home. Yeah, absolutely, Um,
(26:48):
he got married in sixty four to Vera Zabala, and Um,
she was from his hometown there in Puerto Rico. They
had three kids, and he was very insistent that all
his kids be born in Puerto Rico, which they were.
And I think one of his sons, I think Junior
even played baseball, uh and then ended up being an announcer.
(27:10):
I don't think. I mean obviously he was. Um, he
never achieved like what his father did. But it's pretty
imagine tough to grow up the child of Roberto Clemente.
It's like being Michael Jordan's son or whatever. You know. Yeah,
his his So he had Roberto Jr. There's also Louis
Roberto and Roberto Enrique. Those are his three sons names
(27:32):
kind of like George Foreman so so um by the time.
So nineteen sixties, like you said, that was his breakout year.
He got married in nineteen sixty four. Um, and when
he was down there in Puerto Rico. One one thing
I want to say, um that I saw that a
lot of people kind of overlook is he played winner
(27:54):
ball almost every year. But there was one year, I
believe in nineteen fifty eight where he he didn't play
winter balling. Insteady enlisted in the U. S. Marines Reserves,
and that's how we spent the winner and he ended
up spending the next six years as a Marine reserve,
which is something that very frequently gets overlooked, especially from
Americans who really don't think of Puerto Rico as you know,
(28:17):
a territory or fifty first state. Like, he became a
US Marine while he was an up and coming baseball star,
and then even after he was a baseball star, he
remained a Marine until apparently one time, um, the I
think the nineteen sixty four World Series, um coincided with
the training exercise in the the Marines were like, you're
(28:39):
you're honorably discharged, go play the World Series. Yeah, but
he's in the Marine Sports Hall of Fame, which I
didn't even know was a thing. Oh no, I didn't either,
but it makes sense. I think he's the only player
in there. That's right, that's uh, surely there's but the
rock was in there. Should we take a break? Probably?
(29:03):
All right, we'll take a break and talk a little
bit more about the game of Roberto Clemente right after this. Okay, Chuck,
(29:36):
so we haven't already said that. Um, he was a
five tool player, a complete player. UM, and I mean
you you, I think I have an understanding of what
made is his play so amazing? Um? So what made
his play so amazing? I'm I'm laying on my baseball resource. Well,
I mean he was he was built for the game.
(29:57):
He was you never lift never lifted weights in his life.
But he was sort of a perfectly chiseled specimen of
a baseball player. UM. Very very handsome, which has nothing
to do with being a good baseball player. But I
thought I thought I'd throw that in. It moves those
cracker jacks, he sure does. So. Uh. He was just
very fluid, like aside from his base running, like you
(30:19):
mentioned earlier, it was kind of crazy. I think one
sports reporter said it looked more like he was fleeing
than running. Um, he just you'd have to see him run.
He he he just all of his limbs were kind of
just swinging. And it wasn't the most graceful run, which
is weird because he was a very fluid and graceful player. Um.
And those five tools, uh you know he had. He
(30:40):
was known most for his outfield arm and I think
he led the league in outfield assists, um five or
six years in a row, or maybe not in a row,
but five or six seasons. Uh. And he was fearless.
He would he would he was sort of like Willie
Mays and that he would go after uh these outfield
hits with reckless abandoned like just run right into the
(31:00):
wall to try and get a home run ball going over,
or like I said, throwing out those players from right
field to third base, which is just a very, very
tough thing to do. And this was like before padded walls,
or at the very least, they didn't have him in
a lot of the places he played because he would
get like stitches or you know, really mess up his
shoulder or something like that. And don't forget, he's also
(31:22):
playing through a spinal injury from that that car wreck.
And yet this guy is throwing like people out at
third base from right field, um, or running for an
infield grand slam. I mean, just doing crazy stuff despite
these these chronic injuries that he's been accumulating. And I've
read somewhere that he credits his mother with his arm
(31:45):
he threw. He was a jack thrower. Yeah, he was
javelin thrower in high school and that UM really kind
of helps you develop all of the same muscles that
you need to throw something like a baseball from right
field to third base or home But he still said, yeah,
of the javelin, that that definitely surely helped. But I
got my arm from my mom. She can throw from
second base to home plate with something on it still
(32:06):
when it gets there. So he said he got his
arm from his mom, which I thought was pretty sweet. Nice.
I love it. Uh. And you know, off the field
is why he got the award named after him. He
Um would mentor uh, you know, because he was one
of the first Latin American stars. He would mentor anybody
that came through, especially through the Pirates organization, but he
(32:27):
would reach out to players on other teams that were
from the Caribbean to try and Um paved their way
a little more smoothly. When he would go to different cities,
he would go to visit kids in the hospital. Basically
every city they visited, UM he would mentor these players.
He would uh, this great, great story about the friendship
(32:47):
he developed. This is a good fine by Dave Um
about Carol Breeza Vetch or Breeza vic. I'm not sure
you pronounced it, but um. She was a Phillies fan
and a teenager and was hanging out after a game
looking for autographs and saw a little crowd around Clemente
but didn't really know who he was because he was
playing for the Pirates and she was taking Spanish in
(33:10):
high school. So after she got her signature, she kind
of let out a very shy muchas gracias, and he
just lit up and started talking to her in Spanish,
and she was she was like, oh, I don't understand,
so he switched to English and they ended up talking
and talking and talking in the parking lot such that uh.
He and his fellow teammate that were there missed the
(33:31):
bus back to the airport, and so her dad had
to drive them. And he was a big time Phillies fan,
and if you know anything about Phillies fans, he was
probably not happy about this, but he had to drive
to Pittsburgh Pirates uh to the airport, and he and
his daughter struck up a real genuine lifelong friendship, right
and like like like. She was a little sister figure
(33:52):
to him, so was her mom as well. He kind
of adopted them both as sisters because he had had
his sister. He had one sister out of his blings,
and she had died in an accident when he was young.
And so this girl just kind of struck him in
just the right way, and her mom as well, and
so he adopted basically her whole family. Um. He had
them out to uh, I think the next away game
(34:14):
in New York that they played, he invited the whole
family out, put him up in the Pirates hotel, took
him out to dinner afterward, and then as their friendship continued,
he and his wife had a little Carol down for
Christmas in Puerto Rico one one year. So, yeah, this
is like just this this random girl. He wasn't even
a Pittsburgh Pirates fan, um, and he became basically lifelong
(34:36):
friends with her and her family. Yeah, And I think
it's really speaks to the man he was because it
was a time in America where just to hear an
American girl say mucus gassias. It seems very throwaway today
because so many people have learned Spanish and it's taught
in all the schools, But back then, it was a
big deal that this little girl said two words of
(34:59):
Spanish him and that was all it took. Um just
really really very pure sweet story. Yeah, and the fact
that he was, you know, out there signing autographs is
apparently pretty standard for him too. It was known to
be like the kind of guy who he stuck around
to sign every autograph that that was asked of him,
of all the kids. So he was a pretty pretty
(35:19):
good guy. And so like that's what it makes it
kind of rewarding then that he finally started to get
the recognition that he had long sought, that he felt
like he definitely deserved. And one of the other things too,
is it's easy to point to Roberto Clementing and be like,
look at how satistical the guy was. He knew he
was a great player, and he wanted to respect for it.
To him, he represented Puerto Rico um and the Puerto
(35:44):
Rican people, and he wanted respect not just for himself
but for them as well. Like if he could gain respect,
other Puerto Rican people would gain respect by proxy. And
so I think that's why that was one of the
reasons why it was so important to him, not just
because he wanted adulation and in respect, he wanted it
for all Puerto Ricans as well, and he was like
(36:05):
a vessel for that kind of thing. So finally when
it when it finally came around UM in nineteen sixty six, Uh,
he he actually started to loosen up. He he became
known as less Moody. He bonded with his players a
little more because he played all eighteen seasons in the Pirates.
He was a Pirate through and through. UM. But he
he became he was voted as the National League MVP
(36:28):
in nineteen sixty six and apparently that was a huge
turning point for him and his relationship with America and
in baseball. Yeah, it was a big deal. UM. And
you know in in nineteen seventy one is when he
went to a second World Series, great great World Series
the year I was born. I remember it well. He
was they were the underdog against the Orioles, who are
(36:51):
a really really good team at the time, and it
went to a seventh game, just like that Yankees game did,
and he got one. He hit an all seven games,
hit safely and also in games, which is a really
huge accomplishment, and hit a fourth inning home run and
gave seven in Game seven that gave them the lead
basically to go ahead home run and they ended up
winning that World Series. He was named MVP, uh like
(37:13):
I said earlier, after batting four or fourteen in the series,
batting three forty one for the season. And this time
he was really really involved in the celebration. And uh,
like you said, since sixty six had warmed two to baseball,
to the writers a little bit more, and definitely to
his teammates. So it was like a really great way
to end the career. And that wasn't the end of
(37:35):
his career. He played another season, the nineteen seventy two season,
UM and the Pirates got all the way to the
NL East UM Conference. I think they made it past Um.
They made it. I don't remember who they made it past,
but they faced the Reds and lost to the Reds
for the NL title to move on to the World Series.
But they got pretty far. Is pretty respectable season. UM.
(37:58):
And in that season he got his last hit. He
had three thousand hits on the notes, he was UM
only the eleventh player in baseball history UM to reach
that milestone. UM, and he was the first Latin American
player to reach that milestone, which was a huge accomplishment
for him as well. But there's also something really great
(38:18):
about just such an even number three thousand hits um
and he got that three thousandth hit uh in the
in the regular season. UM. They didn't make it to
the World Series that year, but he uh he went
back down to Puerto Rico basically immediately after the season
to go play winter ball again. That's right, uh. And
(38:39):
he he had distinction of managing an all star team
down there in the Amateur Baseball World Series tournament which
was held in Nicaragua that year, and he really really
fell for the people of Nicaragua, and very tragically, in
December of that year, a big earthquake struck killed seven
thousand people and left about a quarter million homeless, and
(39:01):
he really wanted to get involved. His heart was broken.
He had met so many great people in Nicaragua and
wanted to get involved and helped them out and organized
personally organized organized a relief mission there um raising a
hundred and fifty thousand dollars by going door to door
to purchase food, twenty six tons of food and clothing
and medicine. He gets the word that their president there,
(39:25):
who was corrupt, was like so often happens in those situations,
commandeering the supplies and they weren't getting to the people.
So he said, you know what I'm gonna do. I'm
gonna get a plane and I'm gonna fly shipment of
supplies down there myself. And so he boarded a d
C seven on December thirty one, New Year's Eve, nineteen
seventy two to do just that, right, Yeah, he did,
(39:46):
And it turned out, unfortunately that that highly successful campaign,
the drive that he he spearheaded, that produced twenty six
tons of supplies, well, twenty six tons was way too
much for the DC seven that he arted. Um, and
the engines were attacked from the outset. He took off
from Puerto Rico and started flying out over the ocean,
(40:07):
and the engines actually blew up and um, they tried
to turn the plane around while it was on fire
and fly back, and they made it i think a
mile from the coast before the plane broke up and
fell into the ocean and all five people on board
were killed, including Roberto Clemente, who again was overseeing personally
humanitarian mission in Nicaragua to help people who are victims
(40:29):
of an earthquake. And that's how he lost his life
at age thirty eight. Yeah, just brutal, brutal end to
his story. Uh, people search for his body, um, you know,
people on the beach hell daily vigils, hoping that he
would somehow be found alive and rescued. But you know,
obviously nobody survived that crash. His body was never even recovered.
(40:51):
And a few months after the crash, he was inducted
into the Hall of Fame, one of only two times
it's happened. The other was Luke Arrig where you don't
have to wait that mandatory five year period after the
end of your career. And in fact, I think his
set the precedent now that UM, if you have been
deceased for six months, you were eligible for Hall of
(41:12):
Fame induction, and he was just the second one. And
then they created that award in his honor, Clemente Award,
the which is for humanitarian baseball players. So that's a
huge honor in and of itself. UM. I think you
said that he got like twelve Golden Glove or Gold
Glove awards for fielding his last one or maybe his
um his wife accepted on his behalf the following April
(41:35):
after he died, and Vera Um dedicated herself to seeing
through um his dreams and actually organized and got that
sports city in Puerto Rico built and it's still there
today as a matter Yes, I mean she she really
continued his work and um it, you know that I
(41:57):
hate that phrase behind every great man is a great woman,
because really beside every great man is a great woman,
and that was definitely the case with Vera. And she
was a lifetime humanitarian and philanthropist as well, which is amazing. Yea.
One of the great things about Roberto Clemente is he's
the kind of guy you can name a school after
and feel pretty good about it. And as a result,
(42:17):
there's in the round the world there's forty public schools,
two hospitals, and more than two hundred parks and ball
fields named after him. And I think now there's at
least forty one public schools because this past September in
Orange County, Florida, Stonewall Jackson Middle School was renamed Roberto
clement A Middle School. Yeah, well that's about appropriate for
(42:40):
our times. Yeah, it's pretty great. So now there's forty
one schools named after Roberto Clemente. So if you have
a school and you're like, who can we name this
after you could do a lot worse than Roberto Clemente
and people still probably complained about that. Who cares? Who cares? Eventually, Chuck,
you just have to say, I don't care that you're complaining, Yeah,
(43:03):
because you're in the wrong. So, uh, you got anything
else about Roberto Clemente? Nothing else? I watch YouTube videos
of him. It's amazing. Yeah, there's yeah, just just say
just type in like Roberto Clemente throw from right fields
or home run. He's had some amazing home runs. Um, yeah,
it's just fun to watch. Plus, you're right, he he was.
(43:25):
He was pretty easy on the eyes, especially as far
as baseball players go. You know, a lot of them
are horribly ugly. That's right. Blah blah boom. Since I
said that, it's time for a listener mail, don't you
think I think so? This is called Eddie van Halen.
You know, we lost Eddie van Halen recently and it
(43:45):
was very tough for me. But we got a an
emailer from Australia says, I jinx it. Hey guys, I'm
writing in because I was just listening to the political
Polling episode and Chuck mentioned, oh he was having a
break from internet news, and he is only looking at
something that brings me joy, like old led Zeppelin and
Van Halen YouTube videos. Cut to a couple of weeks later,
(44:06):
in the tragic news of Eddie van Halen, passing like
it's some weird twisted way of the universe, saying, oh,
you found something that brings you joy. I'll fix that.
I don't believe in that stuff, but it was fairly ironic.
But truth be told, I can usually be found watching
old van Halen videos, so I know I'm making light
of the death of someone. Oh I don't think you
(44:26):
really are, Matt Um. That would have been a massive
influences in a lot of lives. But in these times
we need to find a laugh wherever we can. Anyway,
I love the podcast. Can't wait for you to touch
on some Australian topics. Hint, hint, all the best and
that is Matt from Melbourne. Oh and you even said
it right, Chuck, Thank god that Matt. Yeah, I'm sure
(44:48):
Jimmy Page is like Chuck, stop watching videos of me. Okay, well,
if you want to be like Matt from Melbourne, who
is awesome just for being from Melbourne, because we've been
into Melbourne and Melbourne is a pretty great place. Um wonderful.
You can send us an email send it off to
Stuff Podcasts at iHeart radio dot com. Stuff you Should
(45:14):
Know is a production of i Heeart Radio's How Stuff Works.
For more podcasts for my heart Radio because at the
iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to
your favorite shows. H
Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of five
Heart Radios How Stuff Works. M Hey, welcome to the podcast.
I'm Josh Clark. There's Charles W. Chuck Bryan over there,
(00:24):
and Jerry too. God I mentioned Jerry, and this is
Stuff Today. You should know. I'm surprised you picked this topic. Why.
I just I don't recognize you as a baseball guy.
Oh man. Probably the first thing I was ever truly
(00:49):
into was baseball cards, like getting the newest edition of
like the Beckett's Price Guide. It was like one of
my like the highlights of my month when whenever. Really yeah,
for a few years I was super into baseball cards.
It was funny. It is like I would still I'd
watch baseball here there, but it was baseball cards in
particular I really cared about. But yeah, I didn't really
(01:10):
watch baseball. No, not really interesting, but I really loved
baseball cards. Like. I wasn't like, oh I hate baseball,
but I love baseball cards. I wasn't like complicating complex
like that. It was just I didn't watch I liked
baseball courts cards more than I liked baseball itself. That's
all I got. You were you a Roberto Clemente fan. Well,
(01:31):
I mean he was. He was playing his final years
when I was being born, so I was not a fan.
But I grew up obviously a Braves fan. But the
in the mid nineteen seventies when I first started being
a baseball fan, the Pittsburgh Pirates uh had a couple
of really good teams, and he was, um, he was
(01:53):
not long gone before those years, so his aura was
still sort of ever present when I first started watching
baseball and the Pirates when they had those great, awful
uh stovetop flat caps. Oh I love those things. But yeah,
on their own, just as an article of fashion, their horrid,
(02:14):
But they were so unique and different too, you know. Yeah,
I mean they were. They rank among the worst uniforms,
but you know, they're just very seventies. So yeah, they
are super seventies. I think that's why I love I
love them that at the seven. I think they were
a throwback to the old old days. So that was
the original person. But yeah, I don't think they like
(02:36):
invented those caps. I think like some of the early
baseball caps might have been flat like that. I might
be wrong. I did not know that. Um. I think
the Astros had the best seventies uniform of all, though
they rank as one of the worst two. Oh, you're crazy,
you have terrible tastes. I'm just talking about if you
look up articles like worst Baseball Uniforms, ever, those are
(02:57):
the ones that are listed. Okay, well, then you're not crazy.
But whoever is writing those articles is crazy. I assume
you're talking about the Orange Shooting Star. Yeah, with like
red and blue, it's very pretty Okay, Okay, So anyway,
we're not talking about fashion or uniforms or anything like that.
(03:18):
Although this is not at all surprising that we even
started on this. We're talking about one particular player who
wore that funny looking Pirates hat, Roberto Clemente, who was
so well, then what are we even doing that came
along after him? What's the point of even doing this episode?
Then if he never wore a hat. I'm just I'm
(03:39):
just trying to get keep Pittsburgh people from emailing us.
And then I appreciate that, Chuck, I appreciate it. Um.
So we're we are talking about a Pittsburgh pirate, Roberto Clemente,
and I knew like I knew of him. I was
aware of him. I knew that he's one of the
all time grades hadn't seen many plays of his, but um,
like you can't. You can't be into baseball and not
(04:01):
know about Roberto Clemente. But I definitely didn't know nearly
as much about him as I do now. Um, thanks
to this help from Rous, who apparently was raised to
Pittsburgh Pirates fans, so he had plenty of good things
to say about Roberto Clemente. Yeah, I think maybe we
should take off a few of these career stats just
to give you an idea of who we're talking about here. Uh,
(04:22):
lifetime batting average of three seventeen, which if you if
you don't know anything about baseball and you think a
success rate oft is terrible. It is in almost everything
else in life, but in baseball, that means you're a
Hall of Famer. That's how hard it is to hit
a baseball, right, I was gonna say, it really goes
to show how difficult hitting baseball's in the major leagues are.
(04:45):
You know, Yeah, you hit three out of ten and
you're great. I think I've said that before on the show.
But he got twelve gold gloves in the right field, Uh,
led the league in and batting the National League. That
is four different times, two World Series Champion Chips, m
v P nine MVP of the World Series, and seventy
one where hebett at four or fourteen, which is just
(05:07):
crazy good. I think sixteen time All Star just really
just an amazing career um and obviously instant Hall of
Fame career. Yeah, and he was really well known for
his arm, like he would throw people out at home
from right field, from the outfield, he could throw without
a bounce, He could throw all the way in and
(05:28):
beat a runner to third or to home, which is
just amazing, and it was one of the things that
really got people excited about him and watching him play.
But like, if you look at just his stats, especially
taken individually, like he was a great player and one
of the all time grades, but statistically speaking, it doesn't
necessarily show up, like there's plenty of people who have
(05:49):
better stats. But one of the things that made Roberto
clement Is such an amazing baseball player is he was
one of the true what are called complete players or
a five to a player where he could run, he
could throw, he could bat, he could field, and like
I keep I keep forgetting what the fifth one is,
but he could he could like sell cracker Jack's in
(06:11):
the stand like nobody's business as well. You've got an
actual baseball guy on the other end of the call here,
you know who me? Oh, okay, well, Mr baseball guy,
if it's not selling cracker jacks, what's the fifth tool?
Use me at your disposal. It's a hit for power
and hit for average. So there's two hittings. That's the
(06:32):
Oh well, whoever knows that? Nobody knows that you can't
just use the same thing twice and call it five tools. Well, no,
you can, because a lot of players can have a
big boomstick, but they bat like two thirty. But if
you can hit for average and hit for power, that's
a big big deal. And if you can make the
most exciting playing baseball to me, which is a right
(06:55):
field to third base assist, then uh, I mean, there's
nothing more thrilling to me. It's really amazing to see.
For sure. It definitely more than even home plate for
some reason, probably because it's further one of the other
things that I think people loved about Roberto Clemente, and
I think that made him such a true baseball player
In a lot of people's eyes, at least in mind.
But he was very well known for going after pitches
(07:17):
that other people would have taken as a ball, clear
balls well high and outside high and inside low and whatever.
And he would go after him, and he would hit
him a lot of the time, which is one reason
why his batting average was so high, because he would
go after those pitches that other people, um would just
let go by, and then in hitting them, he would
(07:37):
send him into places where you wouldn't expect him. Being
a right handed bat or two hit so he could
get to base pretty pretty um frequently too. He also
was a fast runner, but he ran like he was
out of his mind completely. Yeah, it's it's pretty fun
to see him run. He would hit pitch outs, which,
if you, like I said, if you don't know baseball,
(07:59):
pitch out is when uh, there's somebody on first base
and the catcher signals to the picture right before they
throw that the gown first is gonna steal second, so
they throw it completely out of the strikes. The catcher
can stand up and catch it to make the throat
a second and that's called the pitch out. It's not
not even a real pitch. And he would swing and
(08:21):
hit pitch outs, which is that's awesome. No one does that.
It's unheard of. It's crazy. Yeah, that is crazy. So
it suffice to say that Roberto Clemente is one of
the great baseball players of all time because he had
it all. But it was also, it turns out, but
really great human being in a lot of ways too.
He was an activist for civil rights during the civil
(08:41):
rights era um and he was also a humanitarian as
we'll see, like he really cared about other people and
especially the plight of people who were less fortunate than
him because he came from less fortunate circumstances to begin with,
and he never forgot it. Like he was genuinely one
of those guys who never let his fame get to
(09:02):
his head. In the ways that he let his fame
get to his head was in say animosity towards the
sporting press or or saying like, you guys aren't giving
me enough credit for being what a great player I am.
That was separate. That was different when it came to
people outside of baseball, just everyday people he was He
was friends with those people throughout his whole career in life. Yes,
(09:24):
and that is why Major League Baseball has honored him
with the Roberto Clemente Award every year, which is given
to the player that they feel best represents the humanitarian
and humanitarian and philanthropic side of the game or outside
the game rather. So quite quite an honor to have
an award named after you. So I think we should
(09:45):
take a break and then maybe go back to the
beginning where and when he was born? Right after this? Alrighty, So,
(10:19):
clement A was born in Puerto Rico. He's born in
a little town called Carolina or Carolina, and it was
sugarcane territory, sugarcane plantations, and his dad he was actually
born Roberto Clemente Walker. His mother's maiden name was Walker
and his father's name was clement A, so he used
both until he got into baseball. And he was born
(10:41):
in the middle of the Great Depression. Uh, the youngest
of seven kids. Very tough way to be born into life,
it was. But I mean, like if you're you know,
if you come from a farming family, it makes sense,
you know, oh, to have a lot of kids. Yeah, sure,
And plus you have a lot of people with as
you're growing up too. That is very true. So UM
(11:04):
he his father was actually a foreman on a sugarcane plantation.
UM and his mom was a huge influence in his life.
I get the impression slightly more of an influence than
his father was even But one of the things that
um she had hoped for her son was that he
would become uh, he would study engineering. I'm not sure why,
(11:25):
but she wanted him to become an engineer, and he said, yeah,
I really like playing baseball, like to the point where
he and his brothers and his friends would make baseballs
out of whatever was handy, Like they would put like
stones in a sock, they would wad up paper tape,
whatever they could get their hands on, and use whatever
they could for a bat, and they would play baseball.
(11:46):
And then as they got a little older and started
to start playing in school, they had actual equipment to
play with and they would just play constantly. I read
he had ten home runs once in a game that
started at eleven am and ended after six because they
just kept playing and playing and playing like that's all
he wanted to do was play baseball. And one of
(12:06):
the reasons why is because he was really really good
at it. From a very young age. Yeah, I think
the UM I have a theory about Caribbean players that
they developed so well because so many of them don't
have the right gear growing up, and especially back then,
because if you're out there with a broomstick and a
bottle cap, imagine what that does for your hand eye
(12:29):
coordination to when you have like a real barrel of
a baseball bat and a baseball Like it's no wonder
that he could hit anything if you're growing up hitting
bottle caps. And this wasn't just him, so many Dominican
and Puerto Rican and Cuban um and now just all
over the place. Uh, in the Caribbean players are coming
up and they I think they make do with less
(12:50):
as children and that really really hones their skills in
ways that UM And you know, there's a baseball problem
in America period like that far or far fewer kids
are growing up playing baseball now and there's far fewer
American baseball players now as a result. So one of
the reason Chucky is super into baseball was because the
whole island of Puerto Rico was into baseball at the time,
(13:11):
like it had been exported a couple of decades before
he was born. From Cuba to Puerto Rico. And then
also by the time he was playing UM, the Puerto
Rican UM baseball leagues had really developed into something substantial
and they played their season in the winner. So if
you were an American ballplayer, UM, you could play in
(13:35):
your off season down in the Caribbean is specifically in
Puerto Rico, among other places. But Puerto Rico is a
really attractive place to play because they were so into it.
There were so many teams and so many good players
already down there. But one of the yeah, but one
of the ways that it developed was from especially necro
(13:55):
league players making their way down there in the off
season to play UM. I've leave. Roberto Clemente actually played
a season with Willie Mays himself, and Willie Mays had
just led the New York Giants to the to win
the World Series, and a couple of months later he
was down in Puerto Rico playing during the winter the
Winter leagues, because that's just what you did when you
(14:18):
really wanted to play baseball, you go down to the
Caribbean in the wintertime. Yeah, it's something that still happens,
and it's mainly what you see now as players younger
players play winter ball in Puerto Rico too. Uh, just
hone their skills and to get better. It's not something
you see a lot of veterans doing. Um. That's why
it's pretty remarkable and I think shows the love of
(14:38):
his country in the game that clement A played winter
ball like every year through his career. Yeah. One of
the reasons I saw that he did that was because
he knew that most of the people who lived in
Puerto Rico wouldn't be able to afford to go up
to the States to watch him play, and he wanted
to for them to be able to see him play,
so he played every year. Another thing, it was, like
you were saying, some of those younger players hone their
(14:59):
skills UM down there. He kept his skills honed by
playing winner ball like, he kept his swing loose, and
he he didn't fall out of um shape ever, because
he played baseball basically year round for eighteen twenty years. Yeah.
So by the time he hits fourteen, he's recruited to
(15:19):
play UM softball, which is a little weird, but it
was a competitive softball team, uh, and then eventually an
amateur baseball team and was making I think like forty
bucks a week at seventeen playing amateur baseball in Puerto Rico.
And this was, uh, you know, this was a time
where you didn't have baseball scouts combing the Caribbean for
(15:42):
the next new young talent. It was, it was it
was a very new idea to go to the Caribbean
defined players, and not a lot of teams. I mean,
most teams were doing it a little bit, but they
didn't have the robust scouting programs down there like they
do now. And they sent, uh the Dodgers of Brooklyn
Dodgers who very famously broke the color barrier um with
(16:04):
Jackie Robinson and forty seven sent a scout name Al
Kimpanis who went down to Puerto Rico saw nineteen year
old Roberto Clemente in n and said, this guy is
a five tool dynamo and we need we need to
get him up here as fast as we can. And
it wasn't I mean, that was actually kind of um
(16:26):
insightful of him because it wasn't readily obvious, especially very
early in his career. Um when he was playing with
the UH where they called the Kendra Harris the crabbers
um that he was just gonna be one of the
all time greats because he swung at lots of pitches
that other people wouldn't have swung at. He ran like
(16:47):
he was crazy. Um, he was still finding his his skills.
But to be able to see how great he was
going to be UM at that young stage, I mean,
that's a that's a credit to that. What was his name,
camp Annis is um I for talent, Yeah, yeah. And
he went on to be a lifelong baseball executive I
think retired uh in shame for some like uh racial
(17:11):
statements he made, but longtime baseball guy. But the Dodgers
got Clemente. And there was a thing there was a
rule back then from seven nineteen sixty five that they
got rid of UH in sixty five for a very
good reason. That was a little bit weird if you're
a baseball fan today because it's so different now. But
(17:31):
the rule was that if you were UH player that
was signed for more than four thousand dollars as a
signing bonus, then you had to be on a major
league baseball roster for two full seasons UH and if
you weren't, then you would become part of the rookie
draft and clement A was signed for I think ten
(17:51):
thousand dollars and I'm not sure why they signed him
for that much. Maybe he wouldn't have gone for less,
but it was not a great move. But because this
meant that the Dodgers had to either take him to
the major leagues for two full seasons, which was not
a good call because most players in baseball start out
in the minor leagues. In fact, all do. No one
makes that jump straight to the major leagues, even if
(18:14):
it's just like a cursory half season or so, but
that's even really rare. But they they kept him in
the minor leagues and their plan was to hide him
and literally it would he would go like two months
between starts because they didn't want they wanted to get
those two seasons out of the way because after those
two years, you could send someone to the minor leagues.
(18:35):
But it didn't work. Um people saw him play and
even though he didn't get to play much in the
Pittsburgh Pirates really homed in on him right away. So yeah,
the Pittsburgh Pirates were um lead. I think their GM
was branch Rickey, who was the guy who had scouted
Jackie Robinson and got him onto the Dodgers. Now he
(18:55):
worked for the Pirates, so he ended up getting his
hands on Roberto clement Inte and brought him to the Pirates.
And so apparently when they found out, or when Clemente
found out that he had been drafted by the Pirates,
he was down in Puerto Rico, and he said later
on that he had he didn't really know where Pittsburgh was.
He he had been excited to play for New York
(19:16):
because there's a big Puerto Rican community in New York,
and all of a sudden he sent off to Pittsburgh,
doesn't know where it is and doesn't really know anybody.
So this is kind of his his entree into UM America.
But it actually was even rougher than that, because first
he started out I guess on Pittsburgh's UM minor league
team or and that's what it was. It was in
(19:37):
spring training down in Fort Myers Beach, Florida, UM, and
he came face to face with the stark reality of
of basically Jim Crow South in UM the fifties. The
first thing when he got to America, and he he
was one of the reasons I said earlier he was
a civil rights actors because he did not take very
(19:58):
kindly to that and wrestled and railed against it from
the outset. Yeah, he didn't. He didn't have any uh,
he didn't have any frame of reference for this, Like
he came from Puerto Rico, where this wasn't a thing.
He um was of African descent, so two Americans. He
(20:18):
was a black man to him, he was Puerto Rican.
He was caught between two worlds and didn't understand why
he had to stay in a different hotel or eating
a different restaurant than his white UH teammates. And so
this really upset him. And what upset him even as
much was how his other black teammates on the team
understood it and just basically had to take it because
(20:41):
they were afraid if they caused a ruckus that they
would be sent back down to the minors. And he
was just like, you shouldn't be deferential, like what is
going on in this country? And he he would speak
to the sporting press about this stuff, and the sporting
press either would just ignores comments about that or actually, yes,
they would ignore his comments about it and they would
just talk about whatever he said about the game. But
(21:03):
then to kind of heap um the sense that he
was an outsider and an outsider that wasn't respected because
he was looked down upon because of his race and
his his um origin. Um. They would quote him phonetically
in the press. So when he said, you know, um,
I think he said there was a headline that famously
(21:23):
said like I get a hit, I feel good, but
they spelled it out like I get heat h E
E T is how they spelled hit, I feel good.
That was a headline in the Pittsburgh newspapers after a
really big game. And he found that extremely demeaning. Uh,
and it actually really kind of framed the way that
(21:46):
he felt about America. Um. Yeah, it framed how he
felt about America. And don't forget like Puerto Rico was,
you know, by this time, it was an American territory
have been for quite a while, so people in Puerto
Rico had long considered themselves American. People in America didn't
consider Puerto Ricans, they considered them ethnic, and they Roberto
(22:10):
Clemento was treated just like any other person from Puerto Rico,
which was not very well back then. Yeah, So his
reputation started to develop as a loner. It's a very
moody player. The Pirates were a really bad team. I
don't think we mentioned that UM at the time, just terrible,
like one of the worst teams in baseball. He didn't
(22:30):
catch on in his first few years there either. I
think in his first five seasons he only hit over
three hundred one time, and a lot of this was
due to injury. He had a car accident that hurt
his back, so his back was all jacked up for
a while. UM he had other you know, injuries along
the way, and he would he wasn't shy about talking
about it. He would complain to the manager, he complain
(22:51):
to the press about his injuries. And this baseball is
still kind of this way, or most sports are actually
is you kind of don't take that stuff public. You
don't want to be seen as someone who UM either
fake's injury because they don't want to play, or who
just who complains about it too much. So he didn't
have the best reputation early on because a lot of
(23:11):
this stuff. Yeah, I know, he was thought to be
a complainer, a hypochondriac, moody, UM, abrasive, egotistical, and that
was something that like that's indisputable is the egotistical part,
because he was he knew that he was playing better
than he was getting credit for and it ticked him
off because he knew the reason he wasn't getting credit
(23:32):
for it was because he didn't act the way that
the white sporting press expected him to act, and they
they didn't like him for it, so they didn't really
give him any any credit, and they actually withheld credit
that was definitely due him for the way he was playing.
But like you said, I mean it took a few
years for him to start to catch on. But even
(23:53):
after he did, which first began in the nineteen sixty
World Series UM when the Pirates went from I don't
know if they went for worst to first, but it
was pretty close to something like that. Um, he was
he was passed over as the World Series m v
P UM I think like a lefty relief pitcher got
more votes than he did, despite him being one of
(24:15):
the clear heroes of that series. UM. And he really
was not happy about that, and it really kind of
created this this lifelong animosity with the sporting press that
had already been brewing, but that one, to him showed
that they were basically working against him at that point. Yeah,
and I think was a pretty bittersweet ear because it
(24:38):
was his breakout ear. Uh. If this status right, Dave
says his average never dropped below three hundred, then that
means he that means he was hitting three hundred in
Game one, which is pretty remarkable to start out that
hot and to maintain it over the course of a year. Right,
But if you've been playing winner ball in the Caribbean,
like just just a couple of weeks before of that,
(25:00):
it would make sense, you know. Yeah, and he uh,
you know, they won the World Series, which is a big,
big deal in Pittsburgh, but he didn't feel like he
was getting his due, like you said, so he didn't
go off and celebrate with his fans. Um, he kind
of went off to himself. He was happy, but it said,
uh the quote was unhappy but not but unconcerned with
(25:21):
all the fanfare, is what a reporter said. And he
just wanted to get back home to Puerto Rico so
he could use his World Series bonus money to buy
a house for his mother. And he was loved there,
so you know, he wanted to get back to where
he was um cherished and and he did. When he
went back to Puerto Rico, he was a national hero
and the press like followed him everywhere he went, and
(25:44):
the kids loved him, and he bought a big Cadillac
and mentored all the kids. So it's not like he
went back like um like Elvis and just sort of
lived high on the hog, like he did, go back
a hero, but he really really got involved with the
community right away. Yeah, he kept playing. He would mentor
little kids who were um learning to play sports, and
(26:05):
that actually became one of his dreams. Is he wanted
to um make enough money and get big enough to
build a sports complex of sports city or Sad de Portez.
Not bad um if I compare myself on the back
for that one where kids could learn to um play.
(26:25):
But also you know that, like you didn't have much
of a role model, is the kind of place you
could find a role model too, and not just play baseball,
but also play maybe basketball or whatever sports um you
wanted to play. And that I think that that was
at the very least on his mind back then, if
not like one of his stated goals in his life.
By the time roll around he went back home. Yeah, absolutely, Um,
(26:48):
he got married in sixty four to Vera Zabala, and Um,
she was from his hometown there in Puerto Rico. They
had three kids, and he was very insistent that all
his kids be born in Puerto Rico, which they were.
And I think one of his sons, I think Junior
even played baseball, uh and then ended up being an announcer.
(27:10):
I don't think. I mean obviously he was. Um, he
never achieved like what his father did. But it's pretty
imagine tough to grow up the child of Roberto Clemente.
It's like being Michael Jordan's son or whatever. You know. Yeah,
his his So he had Roberto Jr. There's also Louis
Roberto and Roberto Enrique. Those are his three sons names
(27:32):
kind of like George Foreman so so um by the time.
So nineteen sixties, like you said, that was his breakout year.
He got married in nineteen sixty four. Um, and when
he was down there in Puerto Rico. One one thing
I want to say, um that I saw that a
lot of people kind of overlook is he played winner
(27:54):
ball almost every year. But there was one year, I
believe in nineteen fifty eight where he he didn't play
winter balling. Insteady enlisted in the U. S. Marines Reserves,
and that's how we spent the winner and he ended
up spending the next six years as a Marine reserve,
which is something that very frequently gets overlooked, especially from
Americans who really don't think of Puerto Rico as you know,
(28:17):
a territory or fifty first state. Like, he became a
US Marine while he was an up and coming baseball star,
and then even after he was a baseball star, he
remained a Marine until apparently one time, um, the I
think the nineteen sixty four World Series, um coincided with
the training exercise in the the Marines were like, you're
(28:39):
you're honorably discharged, go play the World Series. Yeah, but
he's in the Marine Sports Hall of Fame, which I
didn't even know was a thing. Oh no, I didn't either,
but it makes sense. I think he's the only player
in there. That's right, that's uh, surely there's but the
rock was in there. Should we take a break? Probably?
(29:03):
All right, we'll take a break and talk a little
bit more about the game of Roberto Clemente right after this. Okay, Chuck,
(29:36):
so we haven't already said that. Um, he was a
five tool player, a complete player. UM, and I mean
you you, I think I have an understanding of what
made is his play so amazing? Um? So what made
his play so amazing? I'm I'm laying on my baseball resource. Well,
I mean he was he was built for the game.
(29:57):
He was you never lift never lifted weights in his life.
But he was sort of a perfectly chiseled specimen of
a baseball player. UM. Very very handsome, which has nothing
to do with being a good baseball player. But I
thought I thought I'd throw that in. It moves those
cracker jacks, he sure does. So. Uh. He was just
very fluid, like aside from his base running, like you
(30:19):
mentioned earlier, it was kind of crazy. I think one
sports reporter said it looked more like he was fleeing
than running. Um, he just you'd have to see him run.
He he he just all of his limbs were kind of
just swinging. And it wasn't the most graceful run, which
is weird because he was a very fluid and graceful player. Um.
And those five tools, uh you know he had. He
(30:40):
was known most for his outfield arm and I think
he led the league in outfield assists, um five or
six years in a row, or maybe not in a row,
but five or six seasons. Uh. And he was fearless.
He would he would he was sort of like Willie
Mays and that he would go after uh these outfield
hits with reckless abandoned like just run right into the
(31:00):
wall to try and get a home run ball going over,
or like I said, throwing out those players from right
field to third base, which is just a very, very
tough thing to do. And this was like before padded walls,
or at the very least, they didn't have him in
a lot of the places he played because he would
get like stitches or you know, really mess up his
shoulder or something like that. And don't forget, he's also
(31:22):
playing through a spinal injury from that that car wreck.
And yet this guy is throwing like people out at
third base from right field, um, or running for an
infield grand slam. I mean, just doing crazy stuff despite
these these chronic injuries that he's been accumulating. And I've
read somewhere that he credits his mother with his arm
(31:45):
he threw. He was a jack thrower. Yeah, he was
javelin thrower in high school and that UM really kind
of helps you develop all of the same muscles that
you need to throw something like a baseball from right
field to third base or home But he still said, yeah,
of the javelin, that that definitely surely helped. But I
got my arm from my mom. She can throw from
second base to home plate with something on it still
(32:06):
when it gets there. So he said he got his
arm from his mom, which I thought was pretty sweet. Nice.
I love it. Uh. And you know, off the field
is why he got the award named after him. He
Um would mentor uh, you know, because he was one
of the first Latin American stars. He would mentor anybody
that came through, especially through the Pirates organization, but he
(32:27):
would reach out to players on other teams that were
from the Caribbean to try and Um paved their way
a little more smoothly. When he would go to different cities,
he would go to visit kids in the hospital. Basically
every city they visited, UM he would mentor these players.
He would uh, this great, great story about the friendship
(32:47):
he developed. This is a good fine by Dave Um
about Carol Breeza Vetch or Breeza vic. I'm not sure
you pronounced it, but um. She was a Phillies fan
and a teenager and was hanging out after a game
looking for autographs and saw a little crowd around Clemente
but didn't really know who he was because he was
playing for the Pirates and she was taking Spanish in
(33:10):
high school. So after she got her signature, she kind
of let out a very shy muchas gracias, and he
just lit up and started talking to her in Spanish,
and she was she was like, oh, I don't understand,
so he switched to English and they ended up talking
and talking and talking in the parking lot such that uh.
He and his fellow teammate that were there missed the
(33:31):
bus back to the airport, and so her dad had
to drive them. And he was a big time Phillies fan,
and if you know anything about Phillies fans, he was
probably not happy about this, but he had to drive
to Pittsburgh Pirates uh to the airport, and he and
his daughter struck up a real genuine lifelong friendship, right
and like like like. She was a little sister figure
(33:52):
to him, so was her mom as well. He kind
of adopted them both as sisters because he had had
his sister. He had one sister out of his blings,
and she had died in an accident when he was young.
And so this girl just kind of struck him in
just the right way, and her mom as well, and
so he adopted basically her whole family. Um. He had
them out to uh, I think the next away game
(34:14):
in New York that they played, he invited the whole
family out, put him up in the Pirates hotel, took
him out to dinner afterward, and then as their friendship continued,
he and his wife had a little Carol down for
Christmas in Puerto Rico one one year. So, yeah, this
is like just this this random girl. He wasn't even
a Pittsburgh Pirates fan, um, and he became basically lifelong
(34:36):
friends with her and her family. Yeah, And I think
it's really speaks to the man he was because it
was a time in America where just to hear an
American girl say mucus gassias. It seems very throwaway today
because so many people have learned Spanish and it's taught
in all the schools, But back then, it was a
big deal that this little girl said two words of
(34:59):
Spanish him and that was all it took. Um just
really really very pure sweet story. Yeah, and the fact
that he was, you know, out there signing autographs is
apparently pretty standard for him too. It was known to
be like the kind of guy who he stuck around
to sign every autograph that that was asked of him,
of all the kids. So he was a pretty pretty
(35:19):
good guy. And so like that's what it makes it
kind of rewarding then that he finally started to get
the recognition that he had long sought, that he felt
like he definitely deserved. And one of the other things too,
is it's easy to point to Roberto Clementing and be like,
look at how satistical the guy was. He knew he
was a great player, and he wanted to respect for it.
To him, he represented Puerto Rico um and the Puerto
(35:44):
Rican people, and he wanted respect not just for himself
but for them as well. Like if he could gain respect,
other Puerto Rican people would gain respect by proxy. And
so I think that's why that was one of the
reasons why it was so important to him, not just
because he wanted adulation and in respect, he wanted it
for all Puerto Ricans as well, and he was like
(36:05):
a vessel for that kind of thing. So finally when
it when it finally came around UM in nineteen sixty six, Uh,
he he actually started to loosen up. He he became
known as less Moody. He bonded with his players a
little more because he played all eighteen seasons in the Pirates.
He was a Pirate through and through. UM. But he
he became he was voted as the National League MVP
(36:28):
in nineteen sixty six and apparently that was a huge
turning point for him and his relationship with America and
in baseball. Yeah, it was a big deal. UM. And
you know in in nineteen seventy one is when he
went to a second World Series, great great World Series
the year I was born. I remember it well. He
was they were the underdog against the Orioles, who are
(36:51):
a really really good team at the time, and it
went to a seventh game, just like that Yankees game did,
and he got one. He hit an all seven games,
hit safely and also in games, which is a really
huge accomplishment, and hit a fourth inning home run and
gave seven in Game seven that gave them the lead
basically to go ahead home run and they ended up
winning that World Series. He was named MVP, uh like
(37:13):
I said earlier, after batting four or fourteen in the series,
batting three forty one for the season. And this time
he was really really involved in the celebration. And uh,
like you said, since sixty six had warmed two to baseball,
to the writers a little bit more, and definitely to
his teammates. So it was like a really great way
to end the career. And that wasn't the end of
(37:35):
his career. He played another season, the nineteen seventy two season,
UM and the Pirates got all the way to the
NL East UM Conference. I think they made it past Um.
They made it. I don't remember who they made it past,
but they faced the Reds and lost to the Reds
for the NL title to move on to the World Series.
But they got pretty far. Is pretty respectable season. UM.
(37:58):
And in that season he got his last hit. He
had three thousand hits on the notes, he was UM
only the eleventh player in baseball history UM to reach
that milestone. UM, and he was the first Latin American
player to reach that milestone, which was a huge accomplishment
for him as well. But there's also something really great
(38:18):
about just such an even number three thousand hits um
and he got that three thousandth hit uh in the
in the regular season. UM. They didn't make it to
the World Series that year, but he uh he went
back down to Puerto Rico basically immediately after the season
to go play winter ball again. That's right, uh. And
(38:39):
he he had distinction of managing an all star team
down there in the Amateur Baseball World Series tournament which
was held in Nicaragua that year, and he really really
fell for the people of Nicaragua, and very tragically, in
December of that year, a big earthquake struck killed seven
thousand people and left about a quarter million homeless, and
(39:01):
he really wanted to get involved. His heart was broken.
He had met so many great people in Nicaragua and
wanted to get involved and helped them out and organized
personally organized organized a relief mission there um raising a
hundred and fifty thousand dollars by going door to door
to purchase food, twenty six tons of food and clothing
and medicine. He gets the word that their president there,
(39:25):
who was corrupt, was like so often happens in those situations,
commandeering the supplies and they weren't getting to the people.
So he said, you know what I'm gonna do. I'm
gonna get a plane and I'm gonna fly shipment of
supplies down there myself. And so he boarded a d
C seven on December thirty one, New Year's Eve, nineteen
seventy two to do just that, right, Yeah, he did,
(39:46):
And it turned out, unfortunately that that highly successful campaign,
the drive that he he spearheaded, that produced twenty six
tons of supplies, well, twenty six tons was way too
much for the DC seven that he arted. Um, and
the engines were attacked from the outset. He took off
from Puerto Rico and started flying out over the ocean,
(40:07):
and the engines actually blew up and um, they tried
to turn the plane around while it was on fire
and fly back, and they made it i think a
mile from the coast before the plane broke up and
fell into the ocean and all five people on board
were killed, including Roberto Clemente, who again was overseeing personally
humanitarian mission in Nicaragua to help people who are victims
(40:29):
of an earthquake. And that's how he lost his life
at age thirty eight. Yeah, just brutal, brutal end to
his story. Uh, people search for his body, um, you know,
people on the beach hell daily vigils, hoping that he
would somehow be found alive and rescued. But you know,
obviously nobody survived that crash. His body was never even recovered.
(40:51):
And a few months after the crash, he was inducted
into the Hall of Fame, one of only two times
it's happened. The other was Luke Arrig where you don't
have to wait that mandatory five year period after the
end of your career. And in fact, I think his
set the precedent now that UM, if you have been
deceased for six months, you were eligible for Hall of
(41:12):
Fame induction, and he was just the second one. And
then they created that award in his honor, Clemente Award,
the which is for humanitarian baseball players. So that's a
huge honor in and of itself. UM. I think you
said that he got like twelve Golden Glove or Gold
Glove awards for fielding his last one or maybe his
um his wife accepted on his behalf the following April
(41:35):
after he died, and Vera Um dedicated herself to seeing
through um his dreams and actually organized and got that
sports city in Puerto Rico built and it's still there
today as a matter Yes, I mean she she really
continued his work and um it, you know that I
(41:57):
hate that phrase behind every great man is a great woman,
because really beside every great man is a great woman,
and that was definitely the case with Vera. And she
was a lifetime humanitarian and philanthropist as well, which is amazing. Yea.
One of the great things about Roberto Clemente is he's
the kind of guy you can name a school after
and feel pretty good about it. And as a result,
(42:17):
there's in the round the world there's forty public schools,
two hospitals, and more than two hundred parks and ball
fields named after him. And I think now there's at
least forty one public schools because this past September in
Orange County, Florida, Stonewall Jackson Middle School was renamed Roberto
clement A Middle School. Yeah, well that's about appropriate for
(42:40):
our times. Yeah, it's pretty great. So now there's forty
one schools named after Roberto Clemente. So if you have
a school and you're like, who can we name this
after you could do a lot worse than Roberto Clemente
and people still probably complained about that. Who cares? Who cares? Eventually, Chuck,
you just have to say, I don't care that you're complaining, Yeah,
(43:03):
because you're in the wrong. So, uh, you got anything
else about Roberto Clemente? Nothing else? I watch YouTube videos
of him. It's amazing. Yeah, there's yeah, just just say
just type in like Roberto Clemente throw from right fields
or home run. He's had some amazing home runs. Um, yeah,
it's just fun to watch. Plus, you're right, he he was.
(43:25):
He was pretty easy on the eyes, especially as far
as baseball players go. You know, a lot of them
are horribly ugly. That's right. Blah blah boom. Since I
said that, it's time for a listener mail, don't you
think I think so? This is called Eddie van Halen.
You know, we lost Eddie van Halen recently and it
(43:45):
was very tough for me. But we got a an
emailer from Australia says, I jinx it. Hey guys, I'm
writing in because I was just listening to the political
Polling episode and Chuck mentioned, oh he was having a
break from internet news, and he is only looking at
something that brings me joy, like old led Zeppelin and
Van Halen YouTube videos. Cut to a couple of weeks later,
(44:06):
in the tragic news of Eddie van Halen, passing like
it's some weird twisted way of the universe, saying, oh,
you found something that brings you joy. I'll fix that.
I don't believe in that stuff, but it was fairly ironic.
But truth be told, I can usually be found watching
old van Halen videos, so I know I'm making light
of the death of someone. Oh I don't think you
(44:26):
really are, Matt Um. That would have been a massive
influences in a lot of lives. But in these times
we need to find a laugh wherever we can. Anyway,
I love the podcast. Can't wait for you to touch
on some Australian topics. Hint, hint, all the best and
that is Matt from Melbourne. Oh and you even said
it right, Chuck, Thank god that Matt. Yeah, I'm sure
(44:48):
Jimmy Page is like Chuck, stop watching videos of me. Okay, well,
if you want to be like Matt from Melbourne, who
is awesome just for being from Melbourne, because we've been
into Melbourne and Melbourne is a pretty great place. Um wonderful.
You can send us an email send it off to
Stuff Podcasts at iHeart radio dot com. Stuff you Should
(45:14):
Know is a production of i Heeart Radio's How Stuff Works.
For more podcasts for my heart Radio because at the
iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to
your favorite shows. H
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Josh Clark
Chuck Bryant
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