December 12, 2025 • 47 mins
These days it's easy to feel observed and, therefore, judged by everyone for everything, whether that's online or in real life. Eli Rallo is an author and creator who understands this experience better than most of us and today we chat about her journey from a hardworking, theatre loving child to a nearly three time author and the Carrie Bradshaw of this generation. Our discussion includes topics like:
- Why is it so difficult to let people misunderstand you?
- How our core wounds effect how we handle criticism
- The power of delusional thinking
- How to manage comparison in hyper-competitive spaces
- The truth about influencer culture
- What it takes to become an author
- How do you know you’re with the right person?
That and so much more! Listen now!
Buy Eli's book HERE!
Follow Eli HERE!
*The views expressed by guests are not necessarily shared by our host! We invite open discussion and differing viewpoints, experiences and information.
Follow Jemma on Instagram: @jemmasbeg
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The Psychology of your 20s is not a substitute for professional mental health help. If you are struggling, distressed or require personalised advice, please reach out to your doctor or a licensed psychologist.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Hello everybody, I'm Jemma Spake and welcome back to the
Psychology of Your Twenties, the podcast where we talk through
the biggest changes, moments, and transitions of our twenties and
what they mean for our psychology. Hello everybody, Welcome back
(00:25):
to the show. Welcome back to another December guest episode.
It is so great to have you here. I am
personally so excited for this episode and to have this
specific guest on the podcast. Being a creative person these days,
having an online presence, putting yourself out there can be tough,
even if you don't have an audience. People can be
(00:47):
very critical of us when we are loud, proud, and
passionate about our dreams. One of my favorite creators talks
about this a lot, how to manage comparison, how to
let people misunderstand you, how to know when something is
meant for you. She is the author of two books
about being in your twenties and a content creator who
is honestly living her dream, Carrie Bradshaw Life and Today.
(01:12):
We got to have her on the podcast to really
pick her brain about so many interesting things. Without further
ado his she is Eli Ralo. Welcome to the psychology
of your twenties.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
Yeah, me too.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
I feel like, obviously we're in the middle of like
our December guest month, and I was like, who better
to have on the show than another queen of the
twenty something's another queen of the twenties. If no one
has heard about you, which I don't know how they haven't,
can you tell us a little bit about yourself and
how you kind of began your career to now being
(01:50):
almost a three time author.
Speaker 4 (01:53):
Yes, I am a content creator and writer. I'm based
in New York and also Texas. I'm twenty seven, and
I started making content in twenty twenty and I've sort
of been making content ever since.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
And my new book does anyone else feel this way?
Speaker 4 (02:09):
Out October fourteenth, So I'm in the kind of the
process of dealing with everything that comes along with like
pre publication for a book, which has just been so
exciting and it's so crazy, like I don't know when
this is coming out, but when we're recording it, it's
gonna be out in a week. So it's been just
a whirlwind.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Oh my gosh. I can relate, Like when my book
came out at.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
The start of the year.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
It's like this huge, huge build up and then it
kind of just like do it, and then everything just
you know what I mean, Like you reach this like pinnacle,
and the day that you released the book is often
like the least exciting day.
Speaker 3 (02:44):
I don't know if you found it with your last book.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
Yeah, with my last book, I definitely did. With this book,
I definitely have a lot going on more than the
last one.
Speaker 4 (02:53):
The last one, I was kind of like, Okay, it's
just here now and I'm going to go see my
book in bookstores, which I did, and that was a
really special moment. But then I didn't have any like
huge I guess I did a book tour that night,
but I didn't have like huge plans. This time, I
have like a fully packed schedule for the release week.
So it's kind of a crazier moment in time. But
I think a lot of gratitude because I can compare it.
(03:15):
I can compare it and contrast both of my sort
of book release weeks and feel really grateful for growth
and you know, all the steps in the right direction.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
So it's crazy, but it does really feel.
Speaker 4 (03:25):
Kind of anti climactic emotionally, because you're like, here's this
thing I've been working on and now it's here.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
I know, and it's like, this is the thing that
I have given like everything too, and I've like poured
my whole heart into. I remember the day I raced,
I like went to find it in a bookstore and
it wasn't there, and I was like just walking around being.
Speaker 3 (03:41):
Like oh okay, And it took me like a couple
of days of it. Yeah, I was.
Speaker 4 (03:46):
Ye, sometimes it takes a while for them to like
get it into rotation. I didn't know this about bookstores.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
Yeah, the things you learn.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
Okay, This is a question that I've been really enjoying
asking people recently, which is, what did you want to
be when you grew up? Now that you are a
content creator and an author, what was that always the goal?
Speaker 4 (04:08):
I wanted to be a writer and I wanted to
be on Broadway, so pretty similar, I'm pretty much the
person I've always been, which I guess is quite comforting.
Like I always knew I wanted to be a writer,
and I always knew I wanted to do like theater.
So when I was a kid, I really wanted to
write fiction. So I think it does feel like a
childhood dream sort of discovered and kind of a welcome
(04:29):
home in a way, because that was always the dream
and obviously went down a different path first, and I
feel really grateful for that path as well, but fiction
was definitely always like where my head was at when
I was younger.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
Did you feel like there was a point in your
life where you were like, maybe this isn't going to happen,
Like maybe this is just not for me.
Speaker 4 (04:47):
No, I honestly thought to myself, if I don't make it,
like it's going to be the love of my life
forever either way, Like if I don't make it, I'm
always going to write and all self published. If I
don't make it with Broadway, like I'll do what I
can to make enough money that I could like donate
to Broadway shows or like donate to children's theater, Like
I just knew I would always be involved in the
(05:07):
arts even if I didn't make it, so like no,
I knew that no matter why, I would still do it,
Like no one can take writing away from you, like
if you can't publish traditionally, which would be like the dream,
the dream, the dream, like you can publish yourself and
if you don't, like anyone could do that, like I didn't.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
And when I was in.
Speaker 4 (05:25):
College, I self published a poetry book, Like I think,
I just knew that, like no matter what if I
didn't make it, like, no one could take doing it
away from me. It was habitual, like in my blood,
every day something I did. And same with theater, like
no one can take being a fan of the arts
away from you, no one can take being an audience
member away from you. So there was really never a
moment that I was like, this might not happen, because
(05:46):
I knew that even if I didn't make it in
the traditional sense of the term, like it would still
be part of my life.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
And that was enough for me. Think everything else is
just like a cherry on top.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
No, So I totally agree with you, and I feel
this is someone else who is like very much living
out a dream they had for a long time. People
always are like, how do I know what like my
dream job is?
Speaker 3 (06:08):
Like how do I know what I meant to be doing?
How do I know what my purpose is?
Speaker 1 (06:12):
And I'm like, if you would be doing it even
if there was no one paying attention, what is the
thing you do that you just love to do because
you love to do it, that you wouldn't actually ever
need to be paid for, and you would still have
the love for like that's the biggest thing. And and
some people like can't make money off of those things, right,
That doesn't mean it's not still like your purpose impact, Yeah, yeah,
(06:36):
and not still important. What do you think about being
delusional about your dreams? What are your thoughts on like this,
this method for going after what you want.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
I think there has to be like a bit of delusion.
Speaker 4 (06:49):
Like I don't think anybody like truly like confidently believes
that they can like go out and snatch everything.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
I mean, maybe people do.
Speaker 4 (06:56):
I think there has to be a healthy mix of
like realism and delusion. So the realism is like just
that realistic voice being like these are you know, this
is reality and this is.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
Where we're at right now.
Speaker 4 (07:07):
And then you have to sort of also take at
the extra level that you just believe in yourself in tandem.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
So I think you.
Speaker 4 (07:14):
Have to have a little delusion and a little realism.
That's always where I've like rested in my head. I'm
not like totally delusional, but I'm also like a little delusional,
you know, Like I'll keep it. I'll keep it a
little delusional, But I try to be realistic with myself.
Like I think it's just helped me be grounded. I
always talk about like how my parents raised us, Like
(07:36):
we were never raised to like get applause unless we
earned it, Like my parents were not the type of people,
Oh they're just jealous of you. My parents were not
like you're perfect. My parents loved us, but like if
we weren't good at something, we were not being told
we were good at it, you know what I mean,
Like we were getting we had to earn applause from things.
And I think that it taught me, like to understand
my strengths and learn how to work on my weaknesses
(07:58):
in a really good like I'm good at being real.
And then I think the delusion comes in with like
you just have to be a little wacky when you're
gonna dream really big and you have to believe that
you can. And sometimes that takes like kind of kidding
yourself in a way. But I try to be as
realistic as possible and then also a little delusional.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
See I have this other problem where I feel like
sometimes I'm a little bit too realistic, because I feel
like being delusional jinx as things.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
I don't know if you have.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
This similar feeling where sometimes if I've thought about something happening,
and if I really want it to happen, sometimes I
get worried that it's going to like jinx it and
going to mean that in some universe it's already happened,
so like it's never.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
Going to be allowed to emerge again. What are your thoughts.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
About I feel that.
Speaker 4 (08:43):
I yeah, I think that like in going through processes
for things I didn't get but like that I'm still
qualified to get again, like awards or nominations or bestseller
this or that.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
Like I've just realized that.
Speaker 4 (09:00):
Lacing all this pressure on a thing is just not
worth it, because then you'll feel like how you feel like,
oh I manifested, this not happening. So I try to
just do my best and like forget the rest, Like
I try not to think about the lists and the
accolades and all the things that I know are like
around the bend that I'm being considered for that I
have been considered for.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
Like I try to just forget it.
Speaker 4 (09:20):
All, like it doesn't exist to me, And so that way,
like I'm only focusing on the work and I don't
focus on like, you know, numbers and data and this
and that, and then of course, like those things do matter,
and there are things that I focus on, but I
try to keep myself like pretty grounded and just like
the creative the act of creating and then the art itself,
(09:41):
and not so much on the external because I think
when I did that, I would get really disappointed, and
I would also like feel like you did, where it
would be like.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
Oh, I'm manifested. This not happening.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
Yeah, no, very very true. I feel like this is
the advice that I wish I could. I still think
I need to hear myself, which is like, just do
it for the joy of doing something, Like, just do
it for the joy, and then no one can ever
really take that away from you, which is I guess,
like the through line that we've just been coming back to,
like time and time again, as people who are like
(10:13):
working in creative spaces and working in like in entertainment.
I'm kind of going to shift gears here and let's
talk a bit about our twenties, because I feel like
that's what people are tuning in from. Yeah, you obviously
have a lot of things that you really care about
and that you really want to do. And I think
a big dilemma that people have in this decade is
there is literally so much that I want to try
(10:34):
and I want to achieve, and I want to see
how do I do it all at once? So this
may be like a strange question, but like what are
your time time management strategies, time management advice, or like
maybe deeper thoughts on like, yeah, I guess trying to
do it all at once.
Speaker 4 (10:54):
I think when I hear people have that sort of
complaint of like there's so many lives they want to
live in, so many things I want to.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
Try, I'm like, God, what a privilege?
Speaker 4 (11:02):
Like you need to reframe it, Like what a privilege
to be so excited to live that there are so
many things you want to try? What a privilege to
be so like enamored with life that there are so
many things you want to do? Like to me, the
reality is and it's completely something we can't change.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
You're never going to be able to try everything.
Speaker 4 (11:20):
You're never going to be able to probably visit every
place or read every book. But like, what a gift
that you could try to see as many places as possible,
or like read as many books as possible, or try
as many things as possible, Like there are so many
people that just don't have that luxury. There are so
many people that are born into circumstances where they don't
have that luxury, or are born or not able bodied,
(11:40):
Like I just try to be so grounded in the
reality of the privilege it is to be excited to
try things and to get to try things. And then
I have so often talked with my friends about the
fact that I think, like in your twenties, you kind
of have to pick something to be like the center,
focus point of your world, and that thing can change
from chapter to chapter, year, even my to month. And
(12:00):
like I've sort of picked my job, like it's at
the center of my world. I sacrifice everything else I sacrifice.
I make so many sacrifices for my work. For some people,
they want to choose their friendships. For some people they
want to choose the community that they're a part of.
For some people they choose family or a romantic relationship.
I also think that that thing at the center can change,
It could change it any given week or any given month.
(12:21):
What I mean by this is like I know that
by putting my job in my career right now as
the center focal point, I am sacrificing things. I can't
always make it to social outings. I don't really go
out because I have to rest because I'm, you know,
extending myself so much.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
With my work. But that's something I have to be
okay with. So I think you have to make Pete.
Speaker 4 (12:38):
You have to figure out what your priorities are, figure
out what the center point is going to be of
any month or any week, and then be okay with
the boundaries you have to set and the sacrifices you
have to make in order to focus on that. And
then I think, kind of simultaneously just like realize it's
a privilege to be overwhelmed with choice and to be
excited about life, like, yes, there are so many paths
that you could take, and yes there is such thing
(13:01):
as decision fatigue, like I so.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
Often feel that way. But it's like, what a gift
it is to be so.
Speaker 4 (13:06):
Exhausted by the opportunity to choose something so many people
cannot say that they have.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
I love that way of thinking about it, and I
also love that if you go even further with that thought.
That means that, like you can always choose again, right,
if you have so many choices that feel equally good,
it means that like you're actually probably never going to
be stuck in one choice.
Speaker 4 (13:28):
Yeah, Like you'll never feel, oh, I took the wrong path,
because like there's always going to be something else waiting
for you if you really do feel like there are
so many options, you know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (13:37):
Yeah, And people change their lives like every single day.
I feel like the reason that people get so like
fixated on like what life do I want to live
is because they think that it's like some kind of
contract that they're signing with like the world or with
other people that like, if I say I'm going to
do this and this is who I'm going to be,
I have to be ready to give ten years of
my life to that. No one's asking you to do that.
(13:58):
Like you are allowed to change your like at any
any given time in terms of choosing one thing just
to start. Were there any like, are there any questions
that you were able to ask yourself or that you
would ask a friend to help them determine, like, which
is the first thing I should do?
Speaker 4 (14:15):
I guess it's just like what do you want to do?
Like I think that people don't. I think that people
weigh over complicate things like what do you want to do?
Like if social media didn't exist and nobody else's opinion mattered,
what do you want to do?
Speaker 2 (14:30):
Like, okay, then do that?
Speaker 4 (14:31):
Like that, I think people way over complicate things, like
at the end of the day.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
In adulthood, I've realized like.
Speaker 4 (14:38):
There's going to be such a proliferation of choice, and
you need to get super in touch with yourself to
be able to ask yourself what do I want to do?
Speaker 2 (14:47):
What do I want to wear? Who do I want
to spend my time around?
Speaker 4 (14:49):
And you have to figure out how to know yourself
well enough to answer those questions. I feel like sometimes
we're just not asking ourselves that question because we're so
caught up in everybody else and it's like, no, but
what do you want? Like that's I would ask, well
what do you actually want? And I feel people aren't
asking themselves that and they're often not asked that either.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
Yeah, it's always like how are you going to make money?
Like how are you going to fulfill this dream that
I have for you? Like how Are you going to
be happy? That's the other question. I feel like people
always get fixated on it is like how do I
know I'll be happy? It's like no one, there is
no promise something. I actually I was talking to my
sister about this the other day, and tell me if
you agree with this line of questioning. And sometimes people
(15:29):
are like, I think, I'll tell you what I always
ask her. I say, like, the easiest way to determine
what kind of life you want is to is to
see who you're jealous of, see who has like lipped
out of their dreams in like such a such an
amazing way that the only way that you can like
comprehend that you might want it is through envy, because
(15:49):
like you want it so badly. And a lot of
people are like when I when I tell them that,
are like, wow, you're promoting being jealous, and I'm like, no,
because jealousy is actually like two emotions, right, It's actually
it's a true laid thing. There's the initial feeling and
then there's how.
Speaker 3 (16:06):
You react to it.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
You don't have to react in like a backstabbing, terrible,
self effacing way. You can react in a way that
makes it quite motivating and actually like switches to inspiration
and celebration. What are your thoughts on that, because I
know some people like hear that and like have a
completely different take.
Speaker 4 (16:24):
I really like that. I think that's like super true point.
I definitely someone who thinks that jealousy is like not
really a bad thing, Like I just.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
Think like we've villainized it ourselves.
Speaker 4 (16:35):
But like I always say, it's a signal that somebody
else has something that you want, and instead of being like,
oh why them and not me, you could just as
easily be like why not as both, or like why
can't I have that thing too?
Speaker 2 (16:46):
So I think jealousy is Yeah.
Speaker 4 (16:48):
I think it's a super normal human emotion that we
have to be like more comfortable kind of confronting and facing.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
And it's also quite a helpful one as well. Okay,
we're gonna take a short break, but when we return,
and we're going to talk about comparison, how to manage
when people have the wrong idea of you, and how
to deal with friendship in our twenties.
Speaker 3 (17:07):
To stay with.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
Us, let's talk about comparison, specifically like comparison in the arts.
First question I actually have for you, which is completely unrelated.
But what do you think about the term when people
call you an influencer? Would you prefer like someone call
(17:29):
you an author, a content creator, an influencer? What do
you like kind of think about that word.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
I don't dislike it necessarily.
Speaker 4 (17:35):
I think it's so sad that it's become sort of
like this derogatory term that men specifically utilized to weaponize
it against women. So like, knowing not it makes me
kind of like it more because I'm like, how are
you going to how are you going to use this
term as an insult? And this term literally describes an
economy of mostly women who are like pulling themselves out
(17:59):
of debt, buying themselves homes, creating generational wealth for themselves
that they never had before, Like, how are you going
to use that like as though.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
It's an insult, like kind of screwed up. So I
don't mind it.
Speaker 4 (18:13):
I'm happy with however anybody wants to credit me, Like,
of course I would love the books to be referenced,
but like, I'm not bothered by the influencer of it
all because I recognize it as like an actual viable
career and I feel like when people say, like Oh,
do you not want me to call you an influencer?
Speaker 2 (18:30):
How do you feel about that?
Speaker 4 (18:31):
It comes from this place of like people don't recognize
it as a real career and that kind of makes
me so sad because I'm like, Wow, it's like this
female dominated industry full of women like completely rewriting their
own lives and becoming independently wealthy, which like should be celebrated,
but for some reason it's not.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
See, this is the conversation that like is happening in
Australia right now, where like a bunch of what we
would call influences were obviously like doing political coverage for
like our recent election, and it is like used as
such like this term to just like completely undercut their
their opinion. They seem to be like what are they
doing like in these in these environments. But like something
(19:12):
about that industry, and it is a multi billion dollar industry,
is that it can be like quite competitive as well,
and there is a lot of like comparison and yeah,
like we said, jealousy, how do you how do you
manage that or do you just like not experience it
or utilize it in a different way.
Speaker 4 (19:33):
Yeah, I think it's like anything else like I'm sure
people at their own nine to five jobs have the
experience of like I even talk with my friends, like
you're competing against a coworker for a promotion, Like there's
a lot of competition within those spaces. So I think
it's like anything else that like you're going to compare
yourself to people, and you're going to see somebody on
(19:54):
this brand trip getting this deal, shooting this thing, and
you're going to say, why didn't.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
I get that? But I think if you want to
be success, well you can't.
Speaker 4 (20:00):
You can't view other content creators as competition, only as community.
And I genuinely feel that way, Like sometimes those creeping
senses of comparison will creep up, but like I know
that like rising tides rise all boats, when one of
us wins, we all win, And like I believe that
the opportunities meant for me won't pass me by. And
so because I believe that, I try not to sit
with any sort of comparison at all, and instead I'm like,
(20:22):
that's my community, Like look at how well people in
my community are doing. Like when I see another influencer
write a book, when I see an influencer launch a podcast,
a book club, a show, anything that is similar to
stuff I do. Like I'm just celebrating that because it's
like when one person in our community wins, we all win.
And the more that we view it like that, just
like the better it is for everybody.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
Yeah, And I feel like by talking about this like
in a singular like business space, but that's like advice
that you can take in any area that you are
in in your twenties, like especially in academics as well.
Like I feel like a lot of people who listen
to this like still obviously still in university, some of
them are even like in high school. And the thing
(21:03):
is is that like comparison will continue to repeat itself.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
Oh, it'll always exists.
Speaker 3 (21:09):
Yeah, it will always exist.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
And like you think that like, oh I'm going to
leave this hyperacdemic environment, it's going to be gone. No,
because it's like a human quality, right, so it's going
to be with you. You have to like just change
how you approach it totally.
Speaker 4 (21:21):
And I also think that, like you're just going to
continue to raise the standards that you have set for yourself.
So it's like not going anywhere. You just have to
learn how to maintain and manage it.
Speaker 3 (21:31):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
So this is another kind of element of this that
I think you probably deal with, like in your career
more than others, but which everyone is going to come
across at some point in their lives, which is managing
people having the wrong impression or opinion of you. And
I actually saw you make like an Instagram story about
(21:53):
this the other day which was like, that's the worst
part of this job is having the bravery to like
be like, this is my life. I've now comment on
it however you would would like, and not being able
to kind of talk back to those like, you know,
false impressions.
Speaker 3 (22:10):
How do you manage that?
Speaker 2 (22:12):
I think you have to realize, like there are people
that are.
Speaker 4 (22:16):
Hell bent on misunderstanding you, Like whatever you say, they
will be like you're wrong. There are people that have
a story about you in their mind. They mind for
details to confirm that story is true. The story is
riddled with confirmation bias, and it's like, I don't want
to focus on that one percent of people if I
could focus on the ninety nine percent of people who
know my heart and my person and who I am,
(22:39):
so I just ignore it. I think it takes a
lot of strength to get to that place, and I
don't think it's for everyone, Like I have a lot
of friends whore like I would love to post, but
like I could never deal with the perception aspect, And
I get that, Like it's not for everyone. And that's
not to say I'm like stronger than anyone else. It's
just a matter of do you want to deal with it,
yes or no. I do believe anyone could get to
a place where they're dealing with it in a healthy way,
but not everybody wants too, which is totally valid and
(23:01):
I get and I wouldn't recommend it, Like I wouldn't
recommend it because it takes a lot of mental strength
to get to a place where you can just read
like nasty lies about yourself and you have to you
can't do anything about it, like you there's.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
Zero you could do if you try to.
Speaker 4 (23:16):
If you if someone said she had a nose job
and you never had a nose job, so you went
on a lie detector test and said I never had
a nose job and it said you were telling the truth,
they would be like she paid off the lie detector,
Like if they believed that you had a nose job.
Even if you never did. They're never not going to
believe that. So there's nothing that you can do. And
once you just free yourself from the idea that like
(23:36):
people are just gonna helpment on having the wrong idea
of you. Why would you focus on anyone who has
the wrong idea about you? Like, you know, the truth,
Like it really brings me peace. No, I've never had
a nose job, you know what I mean. I mean
that's just an example. No one's ever said that about me,
but like that's my example. Like I've never had a
nose job, And if you know that about yourself, well,
why shouldn't matter that people are spending a false, falsified
story about the fact that you had one, you know
(23:56):
what I mean?
Speaker 3 (23:57):
Yeah, I do.
Speaker 1 (23:58):
And I feel like it's this whole everything we've been
talking about here, like relies on the fact that we
get so much about identity and validation and sense of
self worth from like our social ties, and so when
we are misunderstood, when we feel jealous, when we feel comparison,
it kind of fractures that like foundation for our beliefs.
This is just like another battle for this what's like
(24:19):
the worst misunderstanding that you've heard about yourself like I
have one, but like of my of my own, and
I feel like each of us has this thing that
like we have been misunderstood about that we wish we
could like classify what's yours.
Speaker 4 (24:34):
People always like have said that, like my parents paid
for my book deals, which, like I don't understand how
people can't wrap their head around this, Like you cannot
pay a traditional publisher or publish your book. You cannot
pay Simon and Schuster, Hashet, HarperCollins like Penguin, you cannot
pay them.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
That's not a thing, it doesn't exist.
Speaker 4 (24:54):
There's no amount of money in the world that they
will take to publish your book, like you can't do that.
So that frustrates me because I feel like it just undermines,
like what I was able to do for myself. People
say my parents connected me to them. My parents work
in restaurants. They own small, family run businesses. One time
my dad self published a coffee table book about food,
(25:15):
Like that was a self publication. You can go and
do it on Amazon. You can pay someone to self
publish a book. My parents don't have connections in publishing.
If they did, I never would have went into student
debt to go to grad school, I would have said,
Mom and Dad, hook me up with your connections, like
they don't have them, and if they did, like I'm
so honest about so many things that happened in my life,
I would share my connections like I would say I
(25:37):
had them, but I didn't have them. So it frustrates
and upsets me that that allegation comes my way a
lot because I'm like, damn, and then yeah, of course
the her parents pay for everything, which is just simply untrue.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
And I think that, like a lot of people.
Speaker 4 (25:53):
Like I grew up very privileged, and the truth of
the matter is my parents themselves did not privileged, Like
the life that they've given to myself and my brothers
was very different from the lives that they had themselves.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
And so it brings me a lot of sadness to like.
Speaker 4 (26:11):
See people that work so hard get sort of that
tossed in their face because it's like they've worked so
hard for my brothers and I. But also I was
cut off the day I graduated college. I am so
transparent about how privileged that I have been in my
life that I did not have student debt from my
undergrad which is like an unbelievable massive privilege that sets
(26:32):
me up to be like miles ahead of other people.
And I understand that truly and deeply, but I think
it upsets me to see, Oh, her parents pay for
her whole life, because like, I'm so proud of myself,
and also like my parents didn't come from what they
were able to provide from us, so for us, so
I think it also, like I don't know, it just
makes me feel upset, like they didn't instill a work
(26:52):
ethic in me, or that like they're just paying for me,
which they're not, And I don't know, I think that
that can be frustrating, and it's something that's levied at
a lot of women men who don't come from privilege
as well, which I'm just like, that's just plain sexist.
I guess I could see how people are arriving at
the point that my parents like bank roll my life,
but like I haven't taken a dime from them since
I graduated college.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
I would go on a lie detective tests, I wished,
I wish I could. Those are some of them like that.
Speaker 4 (27:17):
I get that it's just frustrating and like I don't
really need to proove people wrong because I don't really care.
You can believe my parents pay for my life and
that they bought my book deals and that they connected
me with everybody, but like that was true, I would
be I would have been a published author at.
Speaker 3 (27:30):
Like eighteen literally exactly, no.
Speaker 4 (27:33):
And I would have been calling that that contact up
at like sixteen.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
Yeah, you would have been transferring the money into the
bank accounts.
Speaker 3 (27:40):
Let's go, like yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
Like I would have been paying for it myself. Yeah,
so frustrating. That's frustrating to me.
Speaker 4 (27:47):
And like, you know, there are worse things like in
the world than that, but that's one of them that
I'm always like, dang, Like I wish that like people
just believed that I could work hard, And obviously privilege
has so much to do with it, and I never
want to shy away from that fact. Like the privilege
I've had has undoubtedly set me ahead and allowed me
to achieve the things I've achieved. It's such a such
a young age, and that's not what I'm trying to suggest.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
I'm just trying to suggest when people.
Speaker 4 (28:10):
Like blatantly make up lies about me, it can be frustrating.
Speaker 1 (28:14):
I think it's also frustrating because it obviously like things
that go so deeply against your value set.
Speaker 3 (28:19):
Like I'm sure people have a lot of.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
Things that you could easily dismiss and be like no,
but it's when something is like so deep actually against
your core values and who you are is honest and yeah, exactly.
Speaker 4 (28:31):
Because I'd be honest, like if I think it's so
I always see those memes of like when you find
out your friend's parents are paying for their rent, but
they like lie about it and stuff like that, Like
if my parents were paying for anything, I would be
so open about that because I think like transparency in
that regard is so important in our twenties.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
Especially around money.
Speaker 4 (28:50):
Money is so awkward, and I would like to your
point about it going against my value set, like if
my parents connected me with somebody in the publishing world,
I would also be honest about that because then my
story would be a lie. The story of like how
I got to where I am today would be just
a total lie, and like that's so problematic and unfortunate, you.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
Know, yeah exactly, And also it's like it just wouldn't
be smart business.
Speaker 2 (29:13):
It would just want to be smart business. Yeah, yeah, Like.
Speaker 1 (29:16):
If you if you believe nothing else, like you can
believe that you would be doing what's best for your
business and.
Speaker 3 (29:23):
For like your identity.
Speaker 2 (29:26):
Why yeah, exactly exactly.
Speaker 3 (29:29):
It's like wait, it's.
Speaker 4 (29:30):
Like lying about like your parents being baby like to
be like when Nefo babies are like, I'm not a
NEPO baby. I've worked so hard for this. Like people
aren't pissed about Neto babies. They're pissed when they don't
admit that there they had a leg up.
Speaker 2 (29:43):
You know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (29:43):
Yeah, no, I know, like I don't. I don't know
if you know. The comedian Robbie Hoffman. I feel like
I talk about her on the podcast all the time.
She's so funny.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
She is so so funny.
Speaker 1 (29:54):
Yes, so underrated, like she was on Hacks, like she
was on Dying for Sex too, really amazing shows. I
feel like if the frequent listeners of the podcast are
sick of me talking about how good she is. But
she did this interview with Raven from that so Raven,
her and her wife, and she was like, I don't
care if you have money. I want the money, Like
(30:17):
that's why, Like people care about it, but don't lie
about it, like we don't want you to be poor.
We just also want to be rich and we want
you to be honest and like it.
Speaker 3 (30:27):
And it was.
Speaker 1 (30:28):
It's very very interesting because like I remember, I went
to this like inner city public school in like Melbourne,
and everyone's parents there, well, the majority of them were
living in an incredibly wealthy area, and no one would
really admit.
Speaker 3 (30:43):
That like maybe they'd had a few handouts.
Speaker 1 (30:45):
And that like maybe actually like they were doing pretty well,
and there was this whole culture of like who, Like,
I think it's even more offensive when someone takes, like
takes the idea of like I don't know, not having
much or of poverty or like of really struggling and
never having.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
Had any cost place as it and couseplace as it.
Speaker 3 (31:07):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 4 (31:08):
I think it's so important. Like I've always been transparent
about growing up privileged and being a privileged person and
like having parents who are able to like aid me
with my education, like that is a tremendous privilege. To
lie about that would be crazy because it is a
massive leg up to graduate from college without student debt,
like a massive in America, Like that is a massive privilege.
(31:31):
It sets you on a different path. It allowed me
to be financially independent how I am now, So I
think that to your point, like you're totally right, like
people who have money and who are financially privileged, Like
nobody is mad at you. They just want you to
be unless you're, you know, super unethical billionaire. People just
want you to be honest about it. People want you
to be honest about it. And I think what frustrates
(31:53):
me about lies that have been told about me is
that I have been so honest about all of it
so far and just pick and choose what to believe,
Like why would I start lying now about you know, oh,
like my parents bought my book deal or something like that.
Speaker 2 (32:08):
Like that's just frustrating, Like why would I lie about that?
Speaker 4 (32:11):
Like if that happened, I promise I would be telling
me one hundred percent truth.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
If my parents were paying for.
Speaker 4 (32:16):
My lifestyle, I would tell the truth about that, because
it sells everyone a falsified sense of reality and what's possible.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
Like I'm just gonna be honest about my financial.
Speaker 4 (32:27):
Place in this world, as I have been, and I
think it's important that other people do the same, other people,
especially who come from privilege, Like to the point of like, oh,
my parents pay my rent and other people are looking
at you like how can you afford all of this?
And it's like cause they're getting help. It's it's I think,
really important in your twenties to be very open about
that kind of stuff because a lot of people are struggling,
(32:49):
and also a lot of influencers are posting lives online
that people don't understand how they could lead.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
I know, and then I think it sets people up
for failure when they're like this is possible for me,
and then they like bankrupt themselves.
Speaker 2 (33:02):
Yes, yeah, we see bad influencing.
Speaker 4 (33:06):
It's bad influencing minute the truth about your reality on
the internet in order to make it appear a certain
way because people will feel influenced by you. And I
try to take that with the heightened level of responsibility
and like be really honest.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
See the thing that like, I like the biggest misunderstanding
that someone had about me was really similar and it's
just yeah, well it was like I remember it was
this one comment and one like thread that I found,
like just never look up yourself on Reddit, by the way,
like anyone out there, like, just don't do it.
Speaker 3 (33:42):
It's the worst decision of your life.
Speaker 1 (33:45):
But someone was like, oh, she's money hungry, because like
when I signed I signed my you know deal for
my podcast when I had a full time job, and
you know, there were all these expectations for how many
ads I would run and it was kind of the
only way to be able to quit. And you know,
that contract was for is for many, many years. And
people always get frustrated by ads on the podcast and
(34:07):
I've and every time someone brings it up, oh my god,
it just really upsets me. And I I know, I know,
it just it really upsets me. And I can never
figure out, like for a while, like my friends were like,
why is it this, Like why is it this that
you people say it all the time and every time
you have such a visceral reaction. And I think it's
(34:27):
because again it's that there is all this context that
people don't know and they make an assumption off of
a very very limited thing.
Speaker 4 (34:35):
Also, it's like, how are you how are you supposed
to pay your bills if not for ads?
Speaker 2 (34:40):
Like they should be excited that you have.
Speaker 4 (34:42):
More time to focus on the podcast because you've been
able to leverage it as a full time career. And again,
a woman who is self made is so important in
this world. I don't know why we're not applauding more
self made women and instead we just need to tear.
Speaker 2 (34:54):
Them down constantly.
Speaker 4 (34:57):
And it's always like a man that paid for it,
or she's doing too much, or oh she's money hungry now,
But a dude could be like, I want to be
rich and nobody cares exactly exactly.
Speaker 1 (35:08):
And I think there's like again, it's this value thing
where it's like you have no idea how below my
means I actually live, and like you have no idea
like how much money I even make, and like the
money that I give to like family members, and the
money that I give to like like through donations, and
(35:29):
like how I help friends. Like I think that's the
thing where it's like you don't know, and it's like
my parents always raise me to be Again, it always
comes back to this value, Like my parents always raise
me to be very generous and to always like take
what you have and give it back. And so when
people assume that you're not what you've always been raised
(35:49):
to be, like for you, you are always raised to
be hard working, and people assume that you are not
that it's like just the deepest wound that can be cut.
And I think it also again comes down to this
thing of like people are not being honest about about
things and thinking, so you assume the worst, like you
assume the worst of someone that you really don't know
anything about.
Speaker 4 (36:08):
And I don't judge anybody, like I do judge people
for coming at you like that. But I get where
they're getting it. They're getting it from people who have lied,
do you know what I mean? Yeah, Like they're getting
it from.
Speaker 2 (36:19):
The people who have bled, because there are people who
have lied.
Speaker 4 (36:21):
But ultimately, I just think we need to be celebrating
more financially independent, successful and self made women, especially who
are just like unproblematic and doing their best and like
are honest. Like seems that you've been very honest. So
that's just like so horrible.
Speaker 2 (36:34):
I'm sorry.
Speaker 3 (36:35):
Oh yeah, I'm sorry for you as well.
Speaker 1 (36:38):
Like it's but again I love how way like let's
give let's give advice on how to be misunderstood, and
we're like I'm still angry.
Speaker 4 (36:45):
Yeah, I yeah, I think it's it's frustrating, right, But
like I think at the end of the day, like
I freed myself from that kind of stuff. I mean,
you ask it about it's all bring it back up.
But the idea that my parents paid for my book deal,
the idea that I don't fund my own lifestyle, like
those things are deeply rooted in sexism. Because they wouldn't
(37:08):
say it about my brothers. They don't say it about men.
And it's deeply troubling to me when they levy it
at women who didn't come from privilege, Like I understand
how you got there with me, but I can see
how you got there.
Speaker 2 (37:20):
It makes sense. Women who didn't come from privilege.
Speaker 4 (37:22):
Like that is so insulting, Like they are completely and
entirely self made, and that's what you're gonna say, Like
that is so deeply sexist to say about somebody who
has put themselves in a financial situation they never would
have been in before, which is true of so many
female content creators and entrepreneurs in the media space.
Speaker 1 (37:45):
And this is the thing, is like whatever situation you
find yourself in, again, you know your truth. But also
people can have those opinions and it does not change
how much you have worked for this, and it does
not change all the effort behind the scenes. And it's
(38:05):
this thing of like Okay, if you truly believe that
this is all that it took, give it a go. Like,
if you truly believe that this is what happened, like
try and find another story like that or like yeah,
and for people who are you know, obviously not kind
of in the space that we're in. I think it's
just about having such a stoic mindset and being like, okay,
(38:28):
but genuinely, how does this impact the actual reality of
the situation. It's just words and someone who is thinking
about you that much, Like they don't have time to
think about themselves in a way that's improving them and
bettering them. So it's like you, it's your gain through
their loss, right, like they have chosen to like let
(38:51):
you occupy their mind. That's a win for you, Like
you just can't let that happen to you as well,
and let them occupy your mind.
Speaker 4 (38:59):
I think they're car of sort of being seen and
putting yourself out there is dislike like the idea of
people disliking you. You have to be brave enough so
that people could dislike you, which is scary but real.
Speaker 1 (39:13):
It's the cost of like a lot of success. All Right,
We're going to take one more break, but when we return,
I want to talk about your relationship and also a
little bit about your new book. Stay with us, am
I right in saying you got engaged this year or last?
Speaker 4 (39:33):
Yes, I got engaged last year, twenty twenty four.
Speaker 3 (39:37):
Okay, how was it?
Speaker 4 (39:39):
It was so magical and perfect, and I'm so excited
for our wedding, which it's crazy, is like eight months
away now, and it feels like it happened so quickly.
Speaker 1 (39:49):
My gosh, eight months away. How was the wedding planning
this period? I guess you're still in it, right.
Speaker 2 (39:55):
It's interesting.
Speaker 4 (39:56):
My mom is definitely doing a lot of it, so
that's really helpful. Frankly, with like this whole book situation,
I haven't been thinking much about the wedding, but I
know once the book is behind us and we kind
of get closer to twenty twenty six, it's going to
be sort of all hands on deck. Which, yeah, it's crazy.
Speaker 3 (40:11):
You're having like a little summer wedding, almost like a
pre summer wedding.
Speaker 4 (40:14):
Yes, pre summer wedding, like kickoff of summer, which I
love because summer is my favorite season.
Speaker 3 (40:20):
Yeah, it's the best.
Speaker 1 (40:21):
Okay, this is a question I get speaking about twenties
I get all the time, which is, how do I
know that I'm with the right person?
Speaker 3 (40:29):
What are your thoughts on that? How did you know
that you were with the right person?
Speaker 4 (40:34):
I think it's like so annoying to say, Like I
can't stress how annoying this is going to be, but
like if you have to ask it's not the right person,
you will know, Like I promise you you will know.
It is the most subtle and also deeply comforting feeling
of just like this is my person.
Speaker 2 (40:53):
There's no other way this could go. It's only us.
Speaker 4 (40:56):
Like I can't describe it other than that, like it
just makes sense, and like you will know if you're
It's not some big fireworks explosive feeling. It's very subtle
and very comforting, and I think if you're searching for it,
it's not there.
Speaker 2 (41:09):
And I don't mean to be condescending like at all.
Speaker 4 (41:12):
I just had never felt the way that I feel
with my partner now with anybody else that I'd ever
been with, and I thought some of them were the one,
but they weren't. And it took meeting the person who
was to be like damn, like that's what it feels
like to be with the right person. It's just very comfortable,
very subtle, very comforting, very obvious.
Speaker 1 (41:31):
This is like the line that everyone always says, like
you know, you know, and I think when you and
I think again, like when you were in this situation
where you're like, what do they mean by that? It's like, well,
you probably haven't.
Speaker 4 (41:42):
You haven't felt that way, and that's okay, Like it's
more special if it's singular, like it's going to come
for you and who knows, Like, but why would you
want to feel that a million times?
Speaker 2 (41:52):
Like the person that you're going to want to end
up being with, like that should be more special than
the rest. So like being patient for that feeling is
worth it.
Speaker 1 (42:01):
When do you think is the time to leave a relationship?
So if you have this feeling and you're like, I'm
just not sure, how much time do you think you
should give yourself to really maybe investigate it if you've
got like a bit of relationship anxiety or like you
just found yourself being quite stressed about relationships In general.
Speaker 4 (42:19):
I think it depends on how long you've been in
the relationship, Like if it's been like six months and
you're like, I'm not. I think every individual relationship is different, right.
I think you just have to take the time that
you need to investigate it and be real with yourself.
I would talk to someone about it, maybe that's a therapist,
a trusted family member or friends. Sometimes like getting the
(42:40):
feelings out into the world with someone like non judgmental
can be helpful, and then I would make your decision
from there.
Speaker 2 (42:46):
I wouldn't linger for.
Speaker 4 (42:47):
Too long, Like I feel like the same way, if
you know you know about being wanting to be with someone,
there's and if you know you know about wanting to
get out, And sometimes we avoid the feeling for far
too long. But like the longer you avoid it, the
harder it'll be.
Speaker 1 (43:00):
Yeah, and trust your gut, Like it's not relationship anxiety
if it's been following you for months, like if this
has been like three months, six months, like there's something
else going on there.
Speaker 2 (43:13):
There's something else going on there, and.
Speaker 1 (43:15):
You'll feel like a huge sense of relief. I think
like a lot of people don't want to be single,
and that's actually why they stay in a relationship. Yeah,
what's like your thoughts or advice on that predicament?
Speaker 4 (43:27):
I don't think like being single is inferior to being
in a relationship. Like I don't see one as like
a waiting room and one it's a destination. I see
them as like sort of equivalents, or like being single
can be equal to dating and can be equal to
being in a relationship. You can be single and want
to be in a relationship, but there's like nothing wrong
with being single. And I think once you realize like
(43:48):
being single.
Speaker 2 (43:48):
Is not a waiting room, it gets so much better because.
Speaker 4 (43:52):
Like you're like, yeah, right, Like I was like waiting
to live my life un till I was in a relationship.
Speaker 2 (43:56):
That's sort of so sad, Like let me just live
it now.
Speaker 4 (44:00):
I understand being scared to be single after being in
a partnership for so long, But like being scared means
that you care, and I think that's a really good
place to start. And not only that, Like when you
are scared and when you do something brave, like that's
when the greatest transformations of your life happens. You have
to like keep the faith that on the other side
it will be good again, and I do believe that
it will be. Like no one has been heartbroken for
(44:21):
their whole entire life.
Speaker 2 (44:22):
It's not a thing.
Speaker 1 (44:23):
And even if they have, they've made amazing art from it,
like or they have like poured that into other people, like.
Speaker 2 (44:29):
Yeah, something. But even though yeah.
Speaker 3 (44:32):
This is the thing.
Speaker 1 (44:33):
Like I was saying this to my friend the other day,
I was like, maybe that's where all the cat ladies come.
And there's a lot of souls that need love, and
like there's always You're always gonna find love in like
some form, right, Like maybe maybe you will grieve this
person for the rest of your life. You probably most
certainly won't, but if you do, like that means that
you're going to have so so much more emotion to
to put into other things as well, like and that
(44:55):
means you're gonna feel very very human. And also you're
just like that's the worst case scenario. It's obviously not
going to actually occur. Like people, people are so flexible
and get over so much more and so much worse,
and like your heart can take so much more than
you expect. Let's like turn our focus back onto your
book ause we wrap up.
Speaker 3 (45:17):
It's out now.
Speaker 1 (45:18):
When this episode comes out, you guys may have called
on that we are recording this a little bit early,
but I just had to get Eli on the show.
Speaker 3 (45:25):
It's out now.
Speaker 1 (45:26):
What is your favorite chapter or favorite takeaway from this
collection of essays?
Speaker 4 (45:31):
I love the last chapter, like that's probably my favor.
Like if I had to choose my number one, it would.
Speaker 2 (45:36):
Be the last.
Speaker 4 (45:37):
I also really like the first, But my favorite thing
is like getting to see what other people think of it,
Like somebody's favorite chapter is not going to be one
of those two that I just mentioned, And I can't
wait to find those little nuggets of reader feedback out
once it's in the world.
Speaker 3 (45:54):
What's the last chapter on so we all.
Speaker 2 (45:55):
Know it is? Does anyone else feel like it's okay?
Ought to know everything?
Speaker 1 (46:02):
The biggest fear about twenties the fear from which all
other fears stem from. I believe the fear of of
the n Yes, I can't wait to read it. We
always finished with this one question and I'm excited to
hear answer, which is, what is one thing you wish
you knew sooner about your twenties or one piece of
advice you would have for someone in your twenties that
(46:22):
has nothing to do with what we discussed today.
Speaker 4 (46:27):
I would say, like, don't try to waste it away,
don't try to be like onto the next all the time.
I think there was a large chunk of my twenties
that I was just so wanting to be out of
that phase, out of my skin and into a different phase,
into a different moment, and I just like really regret
not living in the present more so, I would say,
just like, lean into the moment, even if it's uncomfortable, sticky, shitty, awful,
(46:49):
you hate it, You're never going to get the time back,
and who knows what the future holds.
Speaker 1 (46:55):
Yeah, respect all seasons. They're they're for a reason, even
the terrible ones.
Speaker 3 (47:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (47:01):
Well, I want to thank you again for coming on
the podcast. Where can everybody find you?
Speaker 4 (47:08):
You can find me on Instagram eli at elaidar Ralo
and TikTok at Eli Raalo And you can get the
book wherever you buy books.
Speaker 1 (47:14):
Yeah, you can get both books. I will leave them
in the description below. They have really cool covers as well.
Speaker 2 (47:21):
Oh my gosh, thank you. I appreciate that the cover.
Speaker 1 (47:23):
Like I remember when you announced like your second book,
I was like, that's a really sexy cover.
Speaker 3 (47:29):
Thank you, Thank you, people are going to love it.
Speaker 1 (47:32):
Thank you again for joining us as always, if you
enjoyed the episode, please leave a five star review wherever
you are listening. Make sure you're following along and follow
us on Instagram at that Psychology podcast to see the
other guests we have coming on this December as well
as just keep up behind the scenes, stay safe, be kind,
be gentle to yourself. We will talk very very soon.
Hello everybody, I'm Jemma Spake and welcome back to the
Psychology of Your Twenties, the podcast where we talk through
the biggest changes, moments, and transitions of our twenties and
what they mean for our psychology. Hello everybody, Welcome back
(00:25):
to the show. Welcome back to another December guest episode.
It is so great to have you here. I am
personally so excited for this episode and to have this
specific guest on the podcast. Being a creative person these days,
having an online presence, putting yourself out there can be tough,
even if you don't have an audience. People can be
(00:47):
very critical of us when we are loud, proud, and
passionate about our dreams. One of my favorite creators talks
about this a lot, how to manage comparison, how to
let people misunderstand you, how to know when something is
meant for you. She is the author of two books
about being in your twenties and a content creator who
is honestly living her dream, Carrie Bradshaw Life and Today.
(01:12):
We got to have her on the podcast to really
pick her brain about so many interesting things. Without further
ado his she is Eli Ralo. Welcome to the psychology
of your twenties.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
Yeah, me too.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
I feel like, obviously we're in the middle of like
our December guest month, and I was like, who better
to have on the show than another queen of the
twenty something's another queen of the twenties. If no one
has heard about you, which I don't know how they haven't,
can you tell us a little bit about yourself and
how you kind of began your career to now being
(01:50):
almost a three time author.
Speaker 4 (01:53):
Yes, I am a content creator and writer. I'm based
in New York and also Texas. I'm twenty seven, and
I started making content in twenty twenty and I've sort
of been making content ever since.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
And my new book does anyone else feel this way?
Speaker 4 (02:09):
Out October fourteenth, So I'm in the kind of the
process of dealing with everything that comes along with like
pre publication for a book, which has just been so
exciting and it's so crazy, like I don't know when
this is coming out, but when we're recording it, it's
gonna be out in a week. So it's been just
a whirlwind.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Oh my gosh. I can relate, Like when my book
came out at.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
The start of the year.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
It's like this huge, huge build up and then it
kind of just like do it, and then everything just
you know what I mean, Like you reach this like pinnacle,
and the day that you released the book is often
like the least exciting day.
Speaker 3 (02:44):
I don't know if you found it with your last book.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
Yeah, with my last book, I definitely did. With this book,
I definitely have a lot going on more than the
last one.
Speaker 4 (02:53):
The last one, I was kind of like, Okay, it's
just here now and I'm going to go see my
book in bookstores, which I did, and that was a
really special moment. But then I didn't have any like
huge I guess I did a book tour that night,
but I didn't have like huge plans. This time, I
have like a fully packed schedule for the release week.
So it's kind of a crazier moment in time. But
I think a lot of gratitude because I can compare it.
(03:15):
I can compare it and contrast both of my sort
of book release weeks and feel really grateful for growth
and you know, all the steps in the right direction.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
So it's crazy, but it does really feel.
Speaker 4 (03:25):
Kind of anti climactic emotionally, because you're like, here's this
thing I've been working on and now it's here.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
I know, and it's like, this is the thing that
I have given like everything too, and I've like poured
my whole heart into. I remember the day I raced,
I like went to find it in a bookstore and
it wasn't there, and I was like just walking around being.
Speaker 3 (03:41):
Like oh okay, And it took me like a couple
of days of it. Yeah, I was.
Speaker 4 (03:46):
Ye, sometimes it takes a while for them to like
get it into rotation. I didn't know this about bookstores.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
Yeah, the things you learn.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
Okay, This is a question that I've been really enjoying
asking people recently, which is, what did you want to
be when you grew up? Now that you are a
content creator and an author, what was that always the goal?
Speaker 4 (04:08):
I wanted to be a writer and I wanted to
be on Broadway, so pretty similar, I'm pretty much the
person I've always been, which I guess is quite comforting.
Like I always knew I wanted to be a writer,
and I always knew I wanted to do like theater.
So when I was a kid, I really wanted to
write fiction. So I think it does feel like a
childhood dream sort of discovered and kind of a welcome
(04:29):
home in a way, because that was always the dream
and obviously went down a different path first, and I
feel really grateful for that path as well, but fiction
was definitely always like where my head was at when
I was younger.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
Did you feel like there was a point in your
life where you were like, maybe this isn't going to happen,
Like maybe this is just not for me.
Speaker 4 (04:47):
No, I honestly thought to myself, if I don't make it,
like it's going to be the love of my life
forever either way, Like if I don't make it, I'm
always going to write and all self published. If I
don't make it with Broadway, like I'll do what I
can to make enough money that I could like donate
to Broadway shows or like donate to children's theater, Like
I just knew I would always be involved in the
(05:07):
arts even if I didn't make it, so like no,
I knew that no matter why, I would still do it,
Like no one can take writing away from you, like
if you can't publish traditionally, which would be like the dream,
the dream, the dream, like you can publish yourself and
if you don't, like anyone could do that, like I didn't.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
And when I was in.
Speaker 4 (05:25):
College, I self published a poetry book, Like I think,
I just knew that, like no matter what if I
didn't make it, like, no one could take doing it
away from me. It was habitual, like in my blood,
every day something I did. And same with theater, like
no one can take being a fan of the arts
away from you, no one can take being an audience
member away from you. So there was really never a
moment that I was like, this might not happen, because
(05:46):
I knew that even if I didn't make it in
the traditional sense of the term, like it would still
be part of my life.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
And that was enough for me. Think everything else is
just like a cherry on top.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
No, So I totally agree with you, and I feel
this is someone else who is like very much living
out a dream they had for a long time. People
always are like, how do I know what like my
dream job is?
Speaker 3 (06:08):
Like how do I know what I meant to be doing?
How do I know what my purpose is?
Speaker 1 (06:12):
And I'm like, if you would be doing it even
if there was no one paying attention, what is the
thing you do that you just love to do because
you love to do it, that you wouldn't actually ever
need to be paid for, and you would still have
the love for like that's the biggest thing. And and
some people like can't make money off of those things, right,
That doesn't mean it's not still like your purpose impact, Yeah, yeah,
(06:36):
and not still important. What do you think about being
delusional about your dreams? What are your thoughts on like this,
this method for going after what you want.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
I think there has to be like a bit of delusion.
Speaker 4 (06:49):
Like I don't think anybody like truly like confidently believes
that they can like go out and snatch everything.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
I mean, maybe people do.
Speaker 4 (06:56):
I think there has to be a healthy mix of
like realism and delusion. So the realism is like just
that realistic voice being like these are you know, this
is reality and this is.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
Where we're at right now.
Speaker 4 (07:07):
And then you have to sort of also take at
the extra level that you just believe in yourself in tandem.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
So I think you.
Speaker 4 (07:14):
Have to have a little delusion and a little realism.
That's always where I've like rested in my head. I'm
not like totally delusional, but I'm also like a little delusional,
you know, Like I'll keep it. I'll keep it a
little delusional, But I try to be realistic with myself.
Like I think it's just helped me be grounded. I
always talk about like how my parents raised us, Like
(07:36):
we were never raised to like get applause unless we
earned it, Like my parents were not the type of people,
Oh they're just jealous of you. My parents were not
like you're perfect. My parents loved us, but like if
we weren't good at something, we were not being told
we were good at it, you know what I mean,
Like we were getting we had to earn applause from things.
And I think that it taught me, like to understand
my strengths and learn how to work on my weaknesses
(07:58):
in a really good like I'm good at being real.
And then I think the delusion comes in with like
you just have to be a little wacky when you're
gonna dream really big and you have to believe that
you can. And sometimes that takes like kind of kidding
yourself in a way. But I try to be as
realistic as possible and then also a little delusional.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
See I have this other problem where I feel like
sometimes I'm a little bit too realistic, because I feel
like being delusional jinx as things.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
I don't know if you have.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
This similar feeling where sometimes if I've thought about something happening,
and if I really want it to happen, sometimes I
get worried that it's going to like jinx it and
going to mean that in some universe it's already happened,
so like it's never.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
Going to be allowed to emerge again. What are your thoughts.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
About I feel that.
Speaker 4 (08:43):
I yeah, I think that like in going through processes
for things I didn't get but like that I'm still
qualified to get again, like awards or nominations or bestseller
this or that.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
Like I've just realized that.
Speaker 4 (09:00):
Lacing all this pressure on a thing is just not
worth it, because then you'll feel like how you feel like,
oh I manifested, this not happening. So I try to
just do my best and like forget the rest, Like
I try not to think about the lists and the
accolades and all the things that I know are like
around the bend that I'm being considered for that I
have been considered for.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
Like I try to just forget it.
Speaker 4 (09:20):
All, like it doesn't exist to me, And so that way,
like I'm only focusing on the work and I don't
focus on like, you know, numbers and data and this
and that, and then of course, like those things do matter,
and there are things that I focus on, but I
try to keep myself like pretty grounded and just like
the creative the act of creating and then the art itself,
(09:41):
and not so much on the external because I think
when I did that, I would get really disappointed, and
I would also like feel like you did, where it
would be like.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
Oh, I'm manifested. This not happening.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
Yeah, no, very very true. I feel like this is
the advice that I wish I could. I still think
I need to hear myself, which is like, just do
it for the joy of doing something, Like, just do
it for the joy, and then no one can ever
really take that away from you, which is I guess,
like the through line that we've just been coming back to,
like time and time again, as people who are like
(10:13):
working in creative spaces and working in like in entertainment.
I'm kind of going to shift gears here and let's
talk a bit about our twenties, because I feel like
that's what people are tuning in from. Yeah, you obviously
have a lot of things that you really care about
and that you really want to do. And I think
a big dilemma that people have in this decade is
there is literally so much that I want to try
(10:34):
and I want to achieve, and I want to see
how do I do it all at once? So this
may be like a strange question, but like what are
your time time management strategies, time management advice, or like
maybe deeper thoughts on like, yeah, I guess trying to
do it all at once.
Speaker 4 (10:54):
I think when I hear people have that sort of
complaint of like there's so many lives they want to
live in, so many things I want to.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
Try, I'm like, God, what a privilege?
Speaker 4 (11:02):
Like you need to reframe it, Like what a privilege
to be so excited to live that there are so
many things you want to try? What a privilege to
be so like enamored with life that there are so
many things you want to do? Like to me, the
reality is and it's completely something we can't change.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
You're never going to be able to try everything.
Speaker 4 (11:20):
You're never going to be able to probably visit every
place or read every book. But like, what a gift
that you could try to see as many places as possible,
or like read as many books as possible, or try
as many things as possible, Like there are so many
people that just don't have that luxury. There are so
many people that are born into circumstances where they don't
have that luxury, or are born or not able bodied,
(11:40):
Like I just try to be so grounded in the
reality of the privilege it is to be excited to
try things and to get to try things. And then
I have so often talked with my friends about the
fact that I think, like in your twenties, you kind
of have to pick something to be like the center,
focus point of your world, and that thing can change
from chapter to chapter, year, even my to month. And
(12:00):
like I've sort of picked my job, like it's at
the center of my world. I sacrifice everything else I sacrifice.
I make so many sacrifices for my work. For some people,
they want to choose their friendships. For some people they
want to choose the community that they're a part of.
For some people they choose family or a romantic relationship.
I also think that that thing at the center can change,
It could change it any given week or any given month.
(12:21):
What I mean by this is like I know that
by putting my job in my career right now as
the center focal point, I am sacrificing things. I can't
always make it to social outings. I don't really go
out because I have to rest because I'm, you know,
extending myself so much.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
With my work. But that's something I have to be
okay with. So I think you have to make Pete.
Speaker 4 (12:38):
You have to figure out what your priorities are, figure
out what the center point is going to be of
any month or any week, and then be okay with
the boundaries you have to set and the sacrifices you
have to make in order to focus on that. And
then I think, kind of simultaneously just like realize it's
a privilege to be overwhelmed with choice and to be
excited about life, like, yes, there are so many paths
that you could take, and yes there is such thing
(13:01):
as decision fatigue, like I so.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
Often feel that way. But it's like, what a gift
it is to be so.
Speaker 4 (13:06):
Exhausted by the opportunity to choose something so many people
cannot say that they have.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
I love that way of thinking about it, and I
also love that if you go even further with that thought.
That means that, like you can always choose again, right,
if you have so many choices that feel equally good,
it means that like you're actually probably never going to
be stuck in one choice.
Speaker 4 (13:28):
Yeah, Like you'll never feel, oh, I took the wrong path,
because like there's always going to be something else waiting
for you if you really do feel like there are
so many options, you know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (13:37):
Yeah, And people change their lives like every single day.
I feel like the reason that people get so like
fixated on like what life do I want to live
is because they think that it's like some kind of
contract that they're signing with like the world or with
other people that like, if I say I'm going to
do this and this is who I'm going to be,
I have to be ready to give ten years of
my life to that. No one's asking you to do that.
(13:58):
Like you are allowed to change your like at any
any given time in terms of choosing one thing just
to start. Were there any like, are there any questions
that you were able to ask yourself or that you
would ask a friend to help them determine, like, which
is the first thing I should do?
Speaker 4 (14:15):
I guess it's just like what do you want to do?
Like I think that people don't. I think that people
weigh over complicate things like what do you want to do?
Like if social media didn't exist and nobody else's opinion mattered,
what do you want to do?
Speaker 2 (14:30):
Like, okay, then do that?
Speaker 4 (14:31):
Like that, I think people way over complicate things, like
at the end of the day.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
In adulthood, I've realized like.
Speaker 4 (14:38):
There's going to be such a proliferation of choice, and
you need to get super in touch with yourself to
be able to ask yourself what do I want to do?
Speaker 2 (14:47):
What do I want to wear? Who do I want
to spend my time around?
Speaker 4 (14:49):
And you have to figure out how to know yourself
well enough to answer those questions. I feel like sometimes
we're just not asking ourselves that question because we're so
caught up in everybody else and it's like, no, but
what do you want? Like that's I would ask, well
what do you actually want? And I feel people aren't
asking themselves that and they're often not asked that either.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
Yeah, it's always like how are you going to make money?
Like how are you going to fulfill this dream that
I have for you? Like how Are you going to
be happy? That's the other question. I feel like people
always get fixated on it is like how do I
know I'll be happy? It's like no one, there is
no promise something. I actually I was talking to my
sister about this the other day, and tell me if
you agree with this line of questioning. And sometimes people
(15:29):
are like, I think, I'll tell you what I always
ask her. I say, like, the easiest way to determine
what kind of life you want is to is to
see who you're jealous of, see who has like lipped
out of their dreams in like such a such an
amazing way that the only way that you can like
comprehend that you might want it is through envy, because
(15:49):
like you want it so badly. And a lot of
people are like when I when I tell them that,
are like, wow, you're promoting being jealous, and I'm like, no,
because jealousy is actually like two emotions, right, It's actually
it's a true laid thing. There's the initial feeling and
then there's how.
Speaker 3 (16:06):
You react to it.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
You don't have to react in like a backstabbing, terrible,
self effacing way. You can react in a way that
makes it quite motivating and actually like switches to inspiration
and celebration. What are your thoughts on that, because I
know some people like hear that and like have a
completely different take.
Speaker 4 (16:24):
I really like that. I think that's like super true point.
I definitely someone who thinks that jealousy is like not
really a bad thing, Like I just.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
Think like we've villainized it ourselves.
Speaker 4 (16:35):
But like I always say, it's a signal that somebody
else has something that you want, and instead of being like,
oh why them and not me, you could just as
easily be like why not as both, or like why
can't I have that thing too?
Speaker 2 (16:46):
So I think jealousy is Yeah.
Speaker 4 (16:48):
I think it's a super normal human emotion that we
have to be like more comfortable kind of confronting and facing.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
And it's also quite a helpful one as well. Okay,
we're gonna take a short break, but when we return,
and we're going to talk about comparison, how to manage
when people have the wrong idea of you, and how
to deal with friendship in our twenties.
Speaker 3 (17:07):
To stay with.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
Us, let's talk about comparison, specifically like comparison in the arts.
First question I actually have for you, which is completely unrelated.
But what do you think about the term when people
call you an influencer? Would you prefer like someone call
(17:29):
you an author, a content creator, an influencer? What do
you like kind of think about that word.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
I don't dislike it necessarily.
Speaker 4 (17:35):
I think it's so sad that it's become sort of
like this derogatory term that men specifically utilized to weaponize
it against women. So like, knowing not it makes me
kind of like it more because I'm like, how are
you going to how are you going to use this
term as an insult? And this term literally describes an
economy of mostly women who are like pulling themselves out
(17:59):
of debt, buying themselves homes, creating generational wealth for themselves
that they never had before, Like, how are you going
to use that like as though.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
It's an insult, like kind of screwed up. So I
don't mind it.
Speaker 4 (18:13):
I'm happy with however anybody wants to credit me, Like,
of course I would love the books to be referenced,
but like, I'm not bothered by the influencer of it
all because I recognize it as like an actual viable
career and I feel like when people say, like Oh,
do you not want me to call you an influencer?
Speaker 2 (18:30):
How do you feel about that?
Speaker 4 (18:31):
It comes from this place of like people don't recognize
it as a real career and that kind of makes
me so sad because I'm like, Wow, it's like this
female dominated industry full of women like completely rewriting their
own lives and becoming independently wealthy, which like should be celebrated,
but for some reason it's not.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
See, this is the conversation that like is happening in
Australia right now, where like a bunch of what we
would call influences were obviously like doing political coverage for
like our recent election, and it is like used as
such like this term to just like completely undercut their
their opinion. They seem to be like what are they
doing like in these in these environments. But like something
(19:12):
about that industry, and it is a multi billion dollar industry,
is that it can be like quite competitive as well,
and there is a lot of like comparison and yeah,
like we said, jealousy, how do you how do you
manage that or do you just like not experience it
or utilize it in a different way.
Speaker 4 (19:33):
Yeah, I think it's like anything else like I'm sure
people at their own nine to five jobs have the
experience of like I even talk with my friends, like
you're competing against a coworker for a promotion, Like there's
a lot of competition within those spaces. So I think
it's like anything else that like you're going to compare
yourself to people, and you're going to see somebody on
(19:54):
this brand trip getting this deal, shooting this thing, and
you're going to say, why didn't.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
I get that? But I think if you want to
be success, well you can't.
Speaker 4 (20:00):
You can't view other content creators as competition, only as community.
And I genuinely feel that way, Like sometimes those creeping
senses of comparison will creep up, but like I know
that like rising tides rise all boats, when one of
us wins, we all win, And like I believe that
the opportunities meant for me won't pass me by. And
so because I believe that, I try not to sit
with any sort of comparison at all, and instead I'm like,
(20:22):
that's my community, Like look at how well people in
my community are doing. Like when I see another influencer
write a book, when I see an influencer launch a podcast,
a book club, a show, anything that is similar to
stuff I do. Like I'm just celebrating that because it's
like when one person in our community wins, we all win.
And the more that we view it like that, just
like the better it is for everybody.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
Yeah, And I feel like by talking about this like
in a singular like business space, but that's like advice
that you can take in any area that you are
in in your twenties, like especially in academics as well.
Like I feel like a lot of people who listen
to this like still obviously still in university, some of
them are even like in high school. And the thing
(21:03):
is is that like comparison will continue to repeat itself.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
Oh, it'll always exists.
Speaker 3 (21:09):
Yeah, it will always exist.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
And like you think that like, oh I'm going to
leave this hyperacdemic environment, it's going to be gone. No,
because it's like a human quality, right, so it's going
to be with you. You have to like just change
how you approach it totally.
Speaker 4 (21:21):
And I also think that, like you're just going to
continue to raise the standards that you have set for yourself.
So it's like not going anywhere. You just have to
learn how to maintain and manage it.
Speaker 3 (21:31):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
So this is another kind of element of this that
I think you probably deal with, like in your career
more than others, but which everyone is going to come
across at some point in their lives, which is managing
people having the wrong impression or opinion of you. And
I actually saw you make like an Instagram story about
(21:53):
this the other day which was like, that's the worst
part of this job is having the bravery to like
be like, this is my life. I've now comment on
it however you would would like, and not being able
to kind of talk back to those like, you know,
false impressions.
Speaker 3 (22:10):
How do you manage that?
Speaker 2 (22:12):
I think you have to realize, like there are people
that are.
Speaker 4 (22:16):
Hell bent on misunderstanding you, Like whatever you say, they
will be like you're wrong. There are people that have
a story about you in their mind. They mind for
details to confirm that story is true. The story is
riddled with confirmation bias, and it's like, I don't want
to focus on that one percent of people if I
could focus on the ninety nine percent of people who
know my heart and my person and who I am,
(22:39):
so I just ignore it. I think it takes a
lot of strength to get to that place, and I
don't think it's for everyone, Like I have a lot
of friends whore like I would love to post, but
like I could never deal with the perception aspect, And
I get that, Like it's not for everyone. And that's
not to say I'm like stronger than anyone else. It's
just a matter of do you want to deal with it,
yes or no. I do believe anyone could get to
a place where they're dealing with it in a healthy way,
but not everybody wants too, which is totally valid and
(23:01):
I get and I wouldn't recommend it, Like I wouldn't
recommend it because it takes a lot of mental strength
to get to a place where you can just read
like nasty lies about yourself and you have to you
can't do anything about it, like you there's.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
Zero you could do if you try to.
Speaker 4 (23:16):
If you if someone said she had a nose job
and you never had a nose job, so you went
on a lie detector test and said I never had
a nose job and it said you were telling the truth,
they would be like she paid off the lie detector,
Like if they believed that you had a nose job.
Even if you never did. They're never not going to
believe that. So there's nothing that you can do. And
once you just free yourself from the idea that like
(23:36):
people are just gonna helpment on having the wrong idea
of you. Why would you focus on anyone who has
the wrong idea about you? Like, you know, the truth,
Like it really brings me peace. No, I've never had
a nose job, you know what I mean. I mean
that's just an example. No one's ever said that about me,
but like that's my example. Like I've never had a
nose job, And if you know that about yourself, well,
why shouldn't matter that people are spending a false, falsified
story about the fact that you had one, you know
(23:56):
what I mean?
Speaker 3 (23:57):
Yeah, I do.
Speaker 1 (23:58):
And I feel like it's this whole everything we've been
talking about here, like relies on the fact that we
get so much about identity and validation and sense of
self worth from like our social ties, and so when
we are misunderstood, when we feel jealous, when we feel comparison,
it kind of fractures that like foundation for our beliefs.
This is just like another battle for this what's like
(24:19):
the worst misunderstanding that you've heard about yourself like I
have one, but like of my of my own, and
I feel like each of us has this thing that
like we have been misunderstood about that we wish we
could like classify what's yours.
Speaker 4 (24:34):
People always like have said that, like my parents paid
for my book deals, which, like I don't understand how
people can't wrap their head around this, Like you cannot
pay a traditional publisher or publish your book. You cannot
pay Simon and Schuster, Hashet, HarperCollins like Penguin, you cannot
pay them.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
That's not a thing, it doesn't exist.
Speaker 4 (24:54):
There's no amount of money in the world that they
will take to publish your book, like you can't do that.
So that frustrates me because I feel like it just undermines,
like what I was able to do for myself. People
say my parents connected me to them. My parents work
in restaurants. They own small, family run businesses. One time
my dad self published a coffee table book about food,
(25:15):
Like that was a self publication. You can go and
do it on Amazon. You can pay someone to self
publish a book. My parents don't have connections in publishing.
If they did, I never would have went into student
debt to go to grad school, I would have said,
Mom and Dad, hook me up with your connections, like
they don't have them, and if they did, like I'm
so honest about so many things that happened in my life,
I would share my connections like I would say I
(25:37):
had them, but I didn't have them. So it frustrates
and upsets me that that allegation comes my way a
lot because I'm like, damn, and then yeah, of course
the her parents pay for everything, which is just simply untrue.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
And I think that, like a lot of people.
Speaker 4 (25:53):
Like I grew up very privileged, and the truth of
the matter is my parents themselves did not privileged, Like
the life that they've given to myself and my brothers
was very different from the lives that they had themselves.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
And so it brings me a lot of sadness to like.
Speaker 4 (26:11):
See people that work so hard get sort of that
tossed in their face because it's like they've worked so
hard for my brothers and I. But also I was
cut off the day I graduated college. I am so
transparent about how privileged that I have been in my
life that I did not have student debt from my
undergrad which is like an unbelievable massive privilege that sets
(26:32):
me up to be like miles ahead of other people.
And I understand that truly and deeply, but I think
it upsets me to see, Oh, her parents pay for
her whole life, because like, I'm so proud of myself,
and also like my parents didn't come from what they
were able to provide from us, so for us, so
I think it also, like I don't know, it just
makes me feel upset, like they didn't instill a work
(26:52):
ethic in me, or that like they're just paying for me,
which they're not, And I don't know, I think that
that can be frustrating, and it's something that's levied at
a lot of women men who don't come from privilege
as well, which I'm just like, that's just plain sexist.
I guess I could see how people are arriving at
the point that my parents like bank roll my life,
but like I haven't taken a dime from them since
I graduated college.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
I would go on a lie detective tests, I wished,
I wish I could. Those are some of them like that.
Speaker 4 (27:17):
I get that it's just frustrating and like I don't
really need to proove people wrong because I don't really care.
You can believe my parents pay for my life and
that they bought my book deals and that they connected
me with everybody, but like that was true, I would
be I would have been a published author at.
Speaker 3 (27:30):
Like eighteen literally exactly, no.
Speaker 4 (27:33):
And I would have been calling that that contact up
at like sixteen.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
Yeah, you would have been transferring the money into the
bank accounts.
Speaker 3 (27:40):
Let's go, like yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
Like I would have been paying for it myself. Yeah,
so frustrating. That's frustrating to me.
Speaker 4 (27:47):
And like, you know, there are worse things like in
the world than that, but that's one of them that
I'm always like, dang, Like I wish that like people
just believed that I could work hard, And obviously privilege
has so much to do with it, and I never
want to shy away from that fact. Like the privilege
I've had has undoubtedly set me ahead and allowed me
to achieve the things I've achieved. It's such a such
a young age, and that's not what I'm trying to suggest.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
I'm just trying to suggest when people.
Speaker 4 (28:10):
Like blatantly make up lies about me, it can be frustrating.
Speaker 1 (28:14):
I think it's also frustrating because it obviously like things
that go so deeply against your value set.
Speaker 3 (28:19):
Like I'm sure people have a lot of.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
Things that you could easily dismiss and be like no,
but it's when something is like so deep actually against
your core values and who you are is honest and yeah, exactly.
Speaker 4 (28:31):
Because I'd be honest, like if I think it's so
I always see those memes of like when you find
out your friend's parents are paying for their rent, but
they like lie about it and stuff like that, Like
if my parents were paying for anything, I would be
so open about that because I think like transparency in
that regard is so important in our twenties.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
Especially around money.
Speaker 4 (28:50):
Money is so awkward, and I would like to your
point about it going against my value set, like if
my parents connected me with somebody in the publishing world,
I would also be honest about that because then my
story would be a lie. The story of like how
I got to where I am today would be just
a total lie, and like that's so problematic and unfortunate, you.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
Know, yeah exactly, And also it's like it just wouldn't
be smart business.
Speaker 2 (29:13):
It would just want to be smart business. Yeah, yeah, Like.
Speaker 1 (29:16):
If you if you believe nothing else, like you can
believe that you would be doing what's best for your
business and.
Speaker 3 (29:23):
For like your identity.
Speaker 2 (29:26):
Why yeah, exactly exactly.
Speaker 3 (29:29):
It's like wait, it's.
Speaker 4 (29:30):
Like lying about like your parents being baby like to
be like when Nefo babies are like, I'm not a
NEPO baby. I've worked so hard for this. Like people
aren't pissed about Neto babies. They're pissed when they don't
admit that there they had a leg up.
Speaker 2 (29:43):
You know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (29:43):
Yeah, no, I know, like I don't. I don't know
if you know. The comedian Robbie Hoffman. I feel like
I talk about her on the podcast all the time.
She's so funny.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
She is so so funny.
Speaker 1 (29:54):
Yes, so underrated, like she was on Hacks, like she
was on Dying for Sex too, really amazing shows. I
feel like if the frequent listeners of the podcast are
sick of me talking about how good she is. But
she did this interview with Raven from that so Raven,
her and her wife, and she was like, I don't
care if you have money. I want the money, Like
(30:17):
that's why, Like people care about it, but don't lie
about it, like we don't want you to be poor.
We just also want to be rich and we want
you to be honest and like it.
Speaker 3 (30:27):
And it was.
Speaker 1 (30:28):
It's very very interesting because like I remember, I went
to this like inner city public school in like Melbourne,
and everyone's parents there, well, the majority of them were
living in an incredibly wealthy area, and no one would
really admit.
Speaker 3 (30:43):
That like maybe they'd had a few handouts.
Speaker 1 (30:45):
And that like maybe actually like they were doing pretty well,
and there was this whole culture of like who, Like,
I think it's even more offensive when someone takes, like
takes the idea of like I don't know, not having
much or of poverty or like of really struggling and
never having.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
Had any cost place as it and couseplace as it.
Speaker 3 (31:07):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 4 (31:08):
I think it's so important. Like I've always been transparent
about growing up privileged and being a privileged person and
like having parents who are able to like aid me
with my education, like that is a tremendous privilege. To
lie about that would be crazy because it is a
massive leg up to graduate from college without student debt,
like a massive in America, Like that is a massive privilege.
(31:31):
It sets you on a different path. It allowed me
to be financially independent how I am now, So I
think that to your point, like you're totally right, like
people who have money and who are financially privileged, Like
nobody is mad at you. They just want you to
be unless you're, you know, super unethical billionaire. People just
want you to be honest about it. People want you
to be honest about it. And I think what frustrates
(31:53):
me about lies that have been told about me is
that I have been so honest about all of it
so far and just pick and choose what to believe,
Like why would I start lying now about you know, oh,
like my parents bought my book deal or something like that.
Speaker 2 (32:08):
Like that's just frustrating, Like why would I lie about that?
Speaker 4 (32:11):
Like if that happened, I promise I would be telling
me one hundred percent truth.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
If my parents were paying for.
Speaker 4 (32:16):
My lifestyle, I would tell the truth about that, because
it sells everyone a falsified sense of reality and what's possible.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
Like I'm just gonna be honest about my financial.
Speaker 4 (32:27):
Place in this world, as I have been, and I
think it's important that other people do the same, other people,
especially who come from privilege, Like to the point of like, oh,
my parents pay my rent and other people are looking
at you like how can you afford all of this?
And it's like cause they're getting help. It's it's I think,
really important in your twenties to be very open about
that kind of stuff because a lot of people are struggling,
(32:49):
and also a lot of influencers are posting lives online
that people don't understand how they could lead.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
I know, and then I think it sets people up
for failure when they're like this is possible for me,
and then they like bankrupt themselves.
Speaker 2 (33:02):
Yes, yeah, we see bad influencing.
Speaker 4 (33:06):
It's bad influencing minute the truth about your reality on
the internet in order to make it appear a certain
way because people will feel influenced by you. And I
try to take that with the heightened level of responsibility
and like be really honest.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
See the thing that like, I like the biggest misunderstanding
that someone had about me was really similar and it's
just yeah, well it was like I remember it was
this one comment and one like thread that I found,
like just never look up yourself on Reddit, by the way,
like anyone out there, like, just don't do it.
Speaker 3 (33:42):
It's the worst decision of your life.
Speaker 1 (33:45):
But someone was like, oh, she's money hungry, because like
when I signed I signed my you know deal for
my podcast when I had a full time job, and
you know, there were all these expectations for how many
ads I would run and it was kind of the
only way to be able to quit. And you know,
that contract was for is for many, many years. And
people always get frustrated by ads on the podcast and
(34:07):
I've and every time someone brings it up, oh my god,
it just really upsets me. And I I know, I know,
it just it really upsets me. And I can never
figure out, like for a while, like my friends were like,
why is it this, Like why is it this that
you people say it all the time and every time
you have such a visceral reaction. And I think it's
(34:27):
because again it's that there is all this context that
people don't know and they make an assumption off of
a very very limited thing.
Speaker 4 (34:35):
Also, it's like, how are you how are you supposed
to pay your bills if not for ads?
Speaker 2 (34:40):
Like they should be excited that you have.
Speaker 4 (34:42):
More time to focus on the podcast because you've been
able to leverage it as a full time career. And again,
a woman who is self made is so important in
this world. I don't know why we're not applauding more
self made women and instead we just need to tear.
Speaker 2 (34:54):
Them down constantly.
Speaker 4 (34:57):
And it's always like a man that paid for it,
or she's doing too much, or oh she's money hungry now,
But a dude could be like, I want to be
rich and nobody cares exactly exactly.
Speaker 1 (35:08):
And I think there's like again, it's this value thing
where it's like you have no idea how below my
means I actually live, and like you have no idea
like how much money I even make, and like the
money that I give to like family members, and the
money that I give to like like through donations, and
(35:29):
like how I help friends. Like I think that's the
thing where it's like you don't know, and it's like
my parents always raise me to be Again, it always
comes back to this value, Like my parents always raise
me to be very generous and to always like take
what you have and give it back. And so when
people assume that you're not what you've always been raised
(35:49):
to be, like for you, you are always raised to
be hard working, and people assume that you are not
that it's like just the deepest wound that can be cut.
And I think it also again comes down to this
thing of like people are not being honest about about
things and thinking, so you assume the worst, like you
assume the worst of someone that you really don't know
anything about.
Speaker 4 (36:08):
And I don't judge anybody, like I do judge people
for coming at you like that. But I get where
they're getting it. They're getting it from people who have lied,
do you know what I mean? Yeah, Like they're getting
it from.
Speaker 2 (36:19):
The people who have bled, because there are people who
have lied.
Speaker 4 (36:21):
But ultimately, I just think we need to be celebrating
more financially independent, successful and self made women, especially who
are just like unproblematic and doing their best and like
are honest. Like seems that you've been very honest. So
that's just like so horrible.
Speaker 2 (36:34):
I'm sorry.
Speaker 3 (36:35):
Oh yeah, I'm sorry for you as well.
Speaker 1 (36:38):
Like it's but again I love how way like let's
give let's give advice on how to be misunderstood, and
we're like I'm still angry.
Speaker 4 (36:45):
Yeah, I yeah, I think it's it's frustrating, right, But
like I think at the end of the day, like
I freed myself from that kind of stuff. I mean,
you ask it about it's all bring it back up.
But the idea that my parents paid for my book deal,
the idea that I don't fund my own lifestyle, like
those things are deeply rooted in sexism. Because they wouldn't
(37:08):
say it about my brothers. They don't say it about men.
And it's deeply troubling to me when they levy it
at women who didn't come from privilege, Like I understand
how you got there with me, but I can see
how you got there.
Speaker 2 (37:20):
It makes sense. Women who didn't come from privilege.
Speaker 4 (37:22):
Like that is so insulting, Like they are completely and
entirely self made, and that's what you're gonna say, Like
that is so deeply sexist to say about somebody who
has put themselves in a financial situation they never would
have been in before, which is true of so many
female content creators and entrepreneurs in the media space.
Speaker 1 (37:45):
And this is the thing, is like whatever situation you
find yourself in, again, you know your truth. But also
people can have those opinions and it does not change
how much you have worked for this, and it does
not change all the effort behind the scenes. And it's
(38:05):
this thing of like Okay, if you truly believe that
this is all that it took, give it a go. Like,
if you truly believe that this is what happened, like
try and find another story like that or like yeah,
and for people who are you know, obviously not kind
of in the space that we're in. I think it's
just about having such a stoic mindset and being like, okay,
(38:28):
but genuinely, how does this impact the actual reality of
the situation. It's just words and someone who is thinking
about you that much, Like they don't have time to
think about themselves in a way that's improving them and
bettering them. So it's like you, it's your gain through
their loss, right, like they have chosen to like let
(38:51):
you occupy their mind. That's a win for you, Like
you just can't let that happen to you as well,
and let them occupy your mind.
Speaker 4 (38:59):
I think they're car of sort of being seen and
putting yourself out there is dislike like the idea of
people disliking you. You have to be brave enough so
that people could dislike you, which is scary but real.
Speaker 1 (39:13):
It's the cost of like a lot of success. All Right,
We're going to take one more break, but when we return,
I want to talk about your relationship and also a
little bit about your new book. Stay with us, am
I right in saying you got engaged this year or last?
Speaker 4 (39:33):
Yes, I got engaged last year, twenty twenty four.
Speaker 3 (39:37):
Okay, how was it?
Speaker 4 (39:39):
It was so magical and perfect, and I'm so excited
for our wedding, which it's crazy, is like eight months
away now, and it feels like it happened so quickly.
Speaker 1 (39:49):
My gosh, eight months away. How was the wedding planning
this period? I guess you're still in it, right.
Speaker 2 (39:55):
It's interesting.
Speaker 4 (39:56):
My mom is definitely doing a lot of it, so
that's really helpful. Frankly, with like this whole book situation,
I haven't been thinking much about the wedding, but I
know once the book is behind us and we kind
of get closer to twenty twenty six, it's going to
be sort of all hands on deck. Which, yeah, it's crazy.
Speaker 3 (40:11):
You're having like a little summer wedding, almost like a
pre summer wedding.
Speaker 4 (40:14):
Yes, pre summer wedding, like kickoff of summer, which I
love because summer is my favorite season.
Speaker 3 (40:20):
Yeah, it's the best.
Speaker 1 (40:21):
Okay, this is a question I get speaking about twenties
I get all the time, which is, how do I
know that I'm with the right person?
Speaker 3 (40:29):
What are your thoughts on that? How did you know
that you were with the right person?
Speaker 4 (40:34):
I think it's like so annoying to say, Like I
can't stress how annoying this is going to be, but
like if you have to ask it's not the right person,
you will know, Like I promise you you will know.
It is the most subtle and also deeply comforting feeling
of just like this is my person.
Speaker 2 (40:53):
There's no other way this could go. It's only us.
Speaker 4 (40:56):
Like I can't describe it other than that, like it
just makes sense, and like you will know if you're
It's not some big fireworks explosive feeling. It's very subtle
and very comforting, and I think if you're searching for it,
it's not there.
Speaker 2 (41:09):
And I don't mean to be condescending like at all.
Speaker 4 (41:12):
I just had never felt the way that I feel
with my partner now with anybody else that I'd ever
been with, and I thought some of them were the one,
but they weren't. And it took meeting the person who
was to be like damn, like that's what it feels
like to be with the right person. It's just very comfortable,
very subtle, very comforting, very obvious.
Speaker 1 (41:31):
This is like the line that everyone always says, like
you know, you know, and I think when you and
I think again, like when you were in this situation
where you're like, what do they mean by that? It's like, well,
you probably haven't.
Speaker 4 (41:42):
You haven't felt that way, and that's okay, Like it's
more special if it's singular, like it's going to come
for you and who knows, Like, but why would you
want to feel that a million times?
Speaker 2 (41:52):
Like the person that you're going to want to end
up being with, like that should be more special than
the rest. So like being patient for that feeling is
worth it.
Speaker 1 (42:01):
When do you think is the time to leave a relationship?
So if you have this feeling and you're like, I'm
just not sure, how much time do you think you
should give yourself to really maybe investigate it if you've
got like a bit of relationship anxiety or like you
just found yourself being quite stressed about relationships In general.
Speaker 4 (42:19):
I think it depends on how long you've been in
the relationship, Like if it's been like six months and
you're like, I'm not. I think every individual relationship is different, right.
I think you just have to take the time that
you need to investigate it and be real with yourself.
I would talk to someone about it, maybe that's a therapist,
a trusted family member or friends. Sometimes like getting the
(42:40):
feelings out into the world with someone like non judgmental
can be helpful, and then I would make your decision
from there.
Speaker 2 (42:46):
I wouldn't linger for.
Speaker 4 (42:47):
Too long, Like I feel like the same way, if
you know you know about being wanting to be with someone,
there's and if you know you know about wanting to
get out, And sometimes we avoid the feeling for far
too long. But like the longer you avoid it, the
harder it'll be.
Speaker 1 (43:00):
Yeah, and trust your gut, Like it's not relationship anxiety
if it's been following you for months, like if this
has been like three months, six months, like there's something
else going on there.
Speaker 2 (43:13):
There's something else going on there, and.
Speaker 1 (43:15):
You'll feel like a huge sense of relief. I think
like a lot of people don't want to be single,
and that's actually why they stay in a relationship. Yeah,
what's like your thoughts or advice on that predicament?
Speaker 4 (43:27):
I don't think like being single is inferior to being
in a relationship. Like I don't see one as like
a waiting room and one it's a destination. I see
them as like sort of equivalents, or like being single
can be equal to dating and can be equal to
being in a relationship. You can be single and want
to be in a relationship, but there's like nothing wrong
with being single. And I think once you realize like
(43:48):
being single.
Speaker 2 (43:48):
Is not a waiting room, it gets so much better because.
Speaker 4 (43:52):
Like you're like, yeah, right, Like I was like waiting
to live my life un till I was in a relationship.
Speaker 2 (43:56):
That's sort of so sad, Like let me just live
it now.
Speaker 4 (44:00):
I understand being scared to be single after being in
a partnership for so long, But like being scared means
that you care, and I think that's a really good
place to start. And not only that, Like when you
are scared and when you do something brave, like that's
when the greatest transformations of your life happens. You have
to like keep the faith that on the other side
it will be good again, and I do believe that
it will be. Like no one has been heartbroken for
(44:21):
their whole entire life.
Speaker 2 (44:22):
It's not a thing.
Speaker 1 (44:23):
And even if they have, they've made amazing art from it,
like or they have like poured that into other people, like.
Speaker 2 (44:29):
Yeah, something. But even though yeah.
Speaker 3 (44:32):
This is the thing.
Speaker 1 (44:33):
Like I was saying this to my friend the other day,
I was like, maybe that's where all the cat ladies come.
And there's a lot of souls that need love, and
like there's always You're always gonna find love in like
some form, right, Like maybe maybe you will grieve this
person for the rest of your life. You probably most
certainly won't, but if you do, like that means that
you're going to have so so much more emotion to
to put into other things as well, like and that
(44:55):
means you're gonna feel very very human. And also you're
just like that's the worst case scenario. It's obviously not
going to actually occur. Like people, people are so flexible
and get over so much more and so much worse,
and like your heart can take so much more than
you expect. Let's like turn our focus back onto your
book ause we wrap up.
Speaker 3 (45:17):
It's out now.
Speaker 1 (45:18):
When this episode comes out, you guys may have called
on that we are recording this a little bit early,
but I just had to get Eli on the show.
Speaker 3 (45:25):
It's out now.
Speaker 1 (45:26):
What is your favorite chapter or favorite takeaway from this
collection of essays?
Speaker 4 (45:31):
I love the last chapter, like that's probably my favor.
Like if I had to choose my number one, it would.
Speaker 2 (45:36):
Be the last.
Speaker 4 (45:37):
I also really like the first, But my favorite thing
is like getting to see what other people think of it,
Like somebody's favorite chapter is not going to be one
of those two that I just mentioned, And I can't
wait to find those little nuggets of reader feedback out
once it's in the world.
Speaker 3 (45:54):
What's the last chapter on so we all.
Speaker 2 (45:55):
Know it is? Does anyone else feel like it's okay?
Ought to know everything?
Speaker 1 (46:02):
The biggest fear about twenties the fear from which all
other fears stem from. I believe the fear of of
the n Yes, I can't wait to read it. We
always finished with this one question and I'm excited to
hear answer, which is, what is one thing you wish
you knew sooner about your twenties or one piece of
advice you would have for someone in your twenties that
(46:22):
has nothing to do with what we discussed today.
Speaker 4 (46:27):
I would say, like, don't try to waste it away,
don't try to be like onto the next all the time.
I think there was a large chunk of my twenties
that I was just so wanting to be out of
that phase, out of my skin and into a different phase,
into a different moment, and I just like really regret
not living in the present more so, I would say,
just like, lean into the moment, even if it's uncomfortable, sticky, shitty, awful,
(46:49):
you hate it, You're never going to get the time back,
and who knows what the future holds.
Speaker 1 (46:55):
Yeah, respect all seasons. They're they're for a reason, even
the terrible ones.
Speaker 3 (47:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (47:01):
Well, I want to thank you again for coming on
the podcast. Where can everybody find you?
Speaker 4 (47:08):
You can find me on Instagram eli at elaidar Ralo
and TikTok at Eli Raalo And you can get the
book wherever you buy books.
Speaker 1 (47:14):
Yeah, you can get both books. I will leave them
in the description below. They have really cool covers as well.
Speaker 2 (47:21):
Oh my gosh, thank you. I appreciate that the cover.
Speaker 1 (47:23):
Like I remember when you announced like your second book,
I was like, that's a really sexy cover.
Speaker 3 (47:29):
Thank you, Thank you, people are going to love it.
Speaker 1 (47:32):
Thank you again for joining us as always, if you
enjoyed the episode, please leave a five star review wherever
you are listening. Make sure you're following along and follow
us on Instagram at that Psychology podcast to see the
other guests we have coming on this December as well
as just keep up behind the scenes, stay safe, be kind,
be gentle to yourself. We will talk very very soon.
Host
Jemma Sbeghen
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