July 13, 2026 • 60 mins
TW: Discussions of miscarriage/pregnancy
Grace Beverley is a founder, an entrepreneur, and a seasoned professional when it comes to pursuing the ideas your have, but also knowing when to slow down, recover from burnout and let yourself be vulnerable.
In today's episode we discuss her journey from studying music at Oxford to launching over five businesses, and her next chapter as a parent. We talk about:
- The best career advice for your 20s
- How to start a business and her biggest lessons from early failures
- Why love should make you feel safe
- Her pregnancy loss story
- The importance of being vocal about what you believe in
- How to recover from burnout
Listen now!
Watch on Netflix: HERE
Follow Grace on Instagram: @gracebeverley
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Follow Jemma on Instagram: @jemmasbeg
Follow the podcast on Instagram: @thatpsychologypodcast
Subscribe on Substack: @thepsychologyofyour20s
For business: psychologyofyour20s@gmail.com
The Psychology of your 20s is not a substitute for professional mental health help. If you are struggling, distressed or require personalised advice, please reach out to your doctor or a licensed psychologist.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hello everybody. I'm Jemma Spike and welcome back to the
Psychology of Your Twenties, the podcast where we talk through
the biggest changes, moments, and transitions of our twenties and
what they mean for our psychology. Hello everybody, Welcome back
(00:26):
to the show. Welcome back to the podcast. It is
so great to have you here back for another episode
as we of course break down the psychology of our twenties.
There has been one special individual that we have wanted
to have on the podcast for a long time, someone
who has had such an interesting career, trajectory and life
that I think contains so many lessons for others in
(00:48):
their twenties. She's basically lived many lives during this decade,
which is a testament to her work ethic, but also
I think just our general ability to evolve time and
time again. You may know her as the founder of
Tala Shreddy the Productivity Method, or if you are an
OG fan, for her workout guides and plans. She is
also the host of the podcast Working Hard at Oxford Grad.
(01:10):
A genuinely all around cool person who we know and love.
Grace Beverley, Welcome to the Psychology of Your twenties. Thank
you so much. We'll see you're so good at reading.
You must have loved when they came to you in
class and they were like, can you read this sentence? Pee?
You did not start at once? Well, I practice no idea.
That's amazing reading compression. I'm going to put that up
(01:31):
reading brandan one hand. Wid We were saying, like before
we started that, when I read out the interest, you're
like sitting right next week. Is it like singing somebody
singing you happy birthday?
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Yeah, but then also saying like ten nice things about
you afterwards.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Yeah, yeah, it is a lot. Okay, briefly introduce yourself,
tell us a little bit about who you are as
a person, and then we're going to do some icebreakers. Perfect,
So I'm grace. What am I going to say about myself? So?
Speaker 2 (01:58):
I am an entrepreneur. I guess is probably like the
most all encompassing way of referring to what I do.
But it's, as you say, has evolved over the past
decade or so. So I started my first business when
I was in my first term or semester, I don't
know what you would call it at university, and I
have since started three more businesses, and I do a
(02:23):
lot of investing and advisory work as well on other
businesses that are kind of not in a similar space,
but essentially, like my expertise is around consumer businesses and
and kind of how they can appeal to their customers
and grow over time and all of that, so I
do a.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Lot of that work.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
I also have a podcast, I do socials, I guess,
just generally showing what I am doing in my day
to day and my day to day job. I would
consider the work within the businesses because that is what
I do day to day. Sorry, by the way, if
I'm very gurgly and acid refluxy, I'm.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
Afraid there's literally nothing we can do about. There is
something inside that There is a giant baby. It's like
encroaching upon my esophagus. And yeah, I just a baby.
Doesn't like it about Camascon that's in my bag. I
can't even tell you really, Yea, when you guys hear
(03:17):
a break and you know what we're doing. I love
that way of describing you because you're a very busy woman.
And before we get into what makes you busy, we're
gonna do a quick eyesbreaker. We ask these kind of
questions of all of our guests. Are you ready, I'm
so ready. Okay, Three to one favorite fast food order?
Speaker 2 (03:38):
Okay, as you can tell, I'm really gonna.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
Question. Fuck.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
It's hard because I was veggie until quite recently, and
like that's not very well, you know, catered for and
in fast food. So now, like everything, every time I
do try fast food, it's like a whole new world.
So I don't know if it's my go to you know. Sorry,
I'm really bad at being concise.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
This one I think will be easier. Please love last
thing you ordered online?
Speaker 2 (04:15):
Oh so I'm renovating at the moment, and I have been. Honestly,
Etsy's market value has gone.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
Up by about a trillion this week based on me
a lot of stock tip. Yeah sorry, this is a
stock tip value. Grace is on the shop exactly.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
Grace is on the shops. Get investing, not financial advice.
But I yeah, I've been. I've been all over the trinkets.
It's basically because we're so close now, I feel like
I can actually start to buy the little things. I
mostly want to save the little things for when you're
in and you're like, oh, I could use something for
that corner. But the things I've been going for a
generally like art, little like bookends, vintagey things I'm finding little.
(04:58):
I got a label, a vintage label for like the
laundry room door cute, which I liked. So you had
just a hell of a lot of little trinkets.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
Yeah, And are you so excitedly every time a package
comes or you at this stage where like you don't
know what it's going to be.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
Well, I've ordered them to the house and I'm not
currently in the house. So it's Christmas next Wednesday? Can okay?
Last sunset you saw?
Speaker 1 (05:22):
Oh sunset?
Speaker 2 (05:24):
I went on a little girl's trip a few weeks ago,
my girl's trip baby moon, we shall call it.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
It's not actually it was for everyone, but that's how
I was taking, I mean, last girl's trip before popping
out a baby.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
And we saw some beautiful sunsets there and it was
just so lovely. It was kind of we were in
this gorgeous village where you just walk down and you
just sit at a restaurant. You order some calamari, you
get everyone gets an approsperits apart from me. You just
have a nice little chat and like a game of
(05:58):
cards while the sun is setting, and that is just.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
That was God's plan for us all along. Were you
in Greece? Yes, Oh delightful. Yeah. What would your friend say?
Is your most annoying habit? Oh? Where do I start? Uh?
Speaker 2 (06:16):
Very bad at going with the flow? Me and the
flow m hmm. Not good friends. Which is great because
it does mean for every trip or whatever, like you know,
they're like, oh, trip made out of the group chat.
If I'm in the group chat. If you think this
isn't making out of the group chat, you are very
much mistaken, first of all. Second of all, the unfortunately
(06:36):
will be run as a military operation. So yeah, depends
how much you like that. Like great because you can,
I guess put your feet up. But you never know
what's going to happen when you open your what's up?
There might be twenty poles, there might be a spreadsheet,
There might be a little tick box you have to
fill in. There might be a Google doc. It's too much.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
Yeah. Wait, when you and your husband go on trips,
do you plan them? No? See this, I know, I
love it all I know guys, sorry to post, but
I one of my favorite things about my relationship is
that in the big wide world.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
I am like, you know, I'm feisty. I'm running around
doing all my independent things. When I'm at home, I
am baby. When I am in that relationship, I am
I baby. Yeah, I baby, no do things? Baby, feet up,
baby tommy tickles baby, baby, get fed, free time, baby.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
Baby, get fed well.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
Baby, don't know what airport going from, what terminal, what
time plane? And that as someone who is like so
aggressively type A and organizes every single other thing in
their life like that is I never thought I could
have that from relationship because I did kind of come
to terms with the fact that I was like, this
is just who I am. I can't expect anyone else
to have such high standards of organization because obviously you're
(08:03):
taking it too far.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
But lo and behold, here he came. But here he came.
There he was flying around the corner. And now I
get to be baby. Yeah the best. Okay, two more
texting or voice notes. I'm big on voice notes. I
just think there has to be a regular cadence of them,
(08:24):
and I think that I don't know, I think they
need to solve, like to serve a purpose.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
So, for example, if you're going quickly back and forth
in the workday. Is it helpful to have a voice note? No, like,
because I'm in a meeting.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
You've made it very hard for me to go to
listen to the meaning exactly and that I can't do that. Okay.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
And a book you think everybody should read, which, okay,
we were just going through some of some of the
best books. I'm having a really good reading year, and
I think it's only going to go from strength to
strength if I'm able to read in a maternity leave,
which my kindles a good old one handhold. So I'm,
you know, hoping. I just read Broken Country, which, oh
(09:05):
my god, was so good. I honestly so. I was
on my actual babymon as you can tell, I had
to have model the friend's baby moon and husband one's
the solo one happening. Well, yeah, this is it. It's
right here. It was my trip to this American and yeah, honestly,
(09:28):
I just did not move all day. I was completely transfixed.
It was so well written. I have quite a strict
over four rule on Goodreads. Not because I'm a snob,
although you could argue, but because there are so many
books out there that if I'm busy, the chances of me,
like if I can just heighten the chance of me
(09:49):
enjoying the book by it being above a four, because
I think what I used to fall into the trap
of a lot is that these really over hyped books,
they still won't be an over a four if they
are badly written. Like I am so sorry to everyone,
but like I really am not a Colleen Hoover fan,
and most of them are not over a four on
good Reads and they're in lies the lesson, and I, yeah,
(10:13):
so I generally just go for above a four and
I have my whole want to read list, and then
I can just filter it by the average rating.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
This is a mathematical affair. Yeah, I don't know why
I've taken your.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
Your quick fire questions so aggressively try to expand them
into the entire podcast, But yeah, sorry for taking it
so far.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
That's all right, you know what, I feel like we're
warmed up now though we know a bit more about
each other. We kind of already did, but you know,
the audience does. Let's talk about what you're here to
talk about, which is business in life and work. When
did you first start putting yourself out there online? Because
that's kind of the beginning of this whole story, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
Yeah, it absolutely is. And I think like one of
the maybe one of the misconceptions people get about my
story is because it all started so long ago online,
I think the assumption is that like the following was
built first and then it was like, oh, let's throw
businesses on top, which totally fair. Some of them were
because I obviously didn't start a fought businesses at once.
That would be absolutely saying. And I am a little
(11:19):
but like not that far, not that fast. And I
started my first business in my first year at university. Well,
actually I sold my first products online within kind of
six months of starting my socials, and they had just
been started as like an anonymous account where I was
just posting about like my fitness journey. So I was
interested in staying disciplined and going to the gym, and
(11:43):
that was not something that I had within my wheelhouse.
It just wasn't something that I was capable of doing.
And so I started the account as an I guess
like an accountability thing while I was in my last
year of sixth form. I don't know what you were
just like the ast year of like, yeah, it's high school,
but not if you like it's the two years after
if you left at sixteen, so like the eighteen one,
(12:04):
and I, yeah, I just started up the account. As
I said, it was anonymous, I didn't show my face.
All of that started, and then started selling products on
there a few months later. And then by the time
I actually went to start what I consider now like
my first business, I it was about a year later,
(12:25):
and I guess I just had like a year experimenting
with the because the first products I sold were digital
ebugs and or just ebogs, and essentially I guess i'd
kind of played around with that that year, being like, oh, okay,
well if I put it twenty percent off or like
a flash sale, then more people come in, or I
put it like a bundle deal, then people buy, you know,
(12:47):
people are more likely to buy two than one, or
like you know, you do a limited thing whatever. So
I kind of like come to terms with how some
of these things work. And so then by the time
I started the business like a year later, I kind
of realized that that was a viable option. And by
that point I'd gone from having like one or two
(13:08):
thousand followers to having.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
I think around one hundred thousand. Yeah, and so that's
when I started that. Okay, this brings me to some
follow up questions. Did you show your face first or
did somebody realize it was you? Oh?
Speaker 2 (13:24):
They realized it was it, Like which is so I
kind of showed my face out of like.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
Well here I am. There we go games up and
who was it? Do you remember? Oh?
Speaker 2 (13:34):
There was a lot of chat school. And I think
also because I was so I'd only joined that school
a year before, so I wasn't It was a school
obviously like with high school, like people had been there
since they were like eleven. I had not, and so
I was already kind of like new girly and then
(13:54):
just yeah, word got around and I remember coming back
to school after because it was like after the Easter
holidays and I'd been like, you know, doing my posting
and all of this, and then I just remember coming
back in and being like, I hear whispers.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
It's a gossip girl, the gossip girl real life, And
it was very like what the fuck?
Speaker 2 (14:15):
Because I think that now, even at the time, people
not everyone had personal Instagrams, Like it wasn't really like
we were on Facebook, Like people didn't have personal well
a few people did, but it wasn't like like you'd
be posting the toast you just buttered, like it wouldn't
be like a filter. Yeah, like it's been unlikely to
even be a selfie like car and pull yourself together,
(14:37):
whereas there was me like don't want.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
To them NYM today, here's the salon you know. Yeah,
so it just wasn't wasn't that well regarded. I would
say that sucks, But you made I feel like you've
got the opportunity to basically have like a playground to
understand business on your own.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
One hundred percent at very low risk as well. I
always I think that there's like a lot of narrative
on mine around like take the leap, quit your job,
do this, And it's like I was very fortunate to
be in the position where I never needed to do
that because a I started with digital products which have
basically zero sum cost, like you don't really need to
pay a lot to get into them. You just need
to do the work on it. And like I paid
(15:16):
fifty quid to a friend who is a graphic design
student to like make them look nice before Canvra before
Canva pre pre Canvra in the World PC And essentially
that was yeah, because I was like, it's an EE book,
it needs to look nice. But other than that, like
there's no marginal cost. So if two people bought it,
it's cost me the same to produce as like one.
So like every extra thing you sell is just cash.
(15:41):
And so yeah, it was like I never needed. And
then also I went on to university. Like I've never
been full time. There was never a moment where I
had to be like full time in the business before
they'd actually you know, I then had three years of
university to really like work it out.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
Yeah that's crazy. And you went and studied music, yeah,
which I think a lot of people may not know maybe,
And what was was it? I was like I was
doing some digging on the Wikipedia. I was like, this
is sualism today. I hope you did the nice donation
link to Wikipedia. Yeah. I always do. I always. They're
always like we're begging you. Yeah, she will like like
(16:20):
donate true cents. I'm like, oh, be rute not to
I always do it. But what do you think about
studying music and like the arts helped you with business? Oh,
I don't know if that much. I think that the
main Okay, main things I think I really learned from
the like music background.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
Worth saying as well, that my degree was specific. It
was all lessa based, so it wasn't actually like performance.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
I imagine you having to sing like for your own nerves. Okay,
and that's a name, but no it was. It was
so it was like the areas I specialized in were
like politics and philosophy of music, so music so like
(17:07):
during censorship eras or whatever. I anyway, so I think
that the two main things that it taught.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
Me were one, it was a very because of the
university I went to, it was a very high workload course.
So essentially it was I had like ten thousand words
a week for three years, and then none of that counted. Well,
it counted in that if you didn't do it, you
were getting kicked out, but it didn't count towards your
grade until the last month. Yeah, and you were consistently examined,
(17:38):
but not for but for like your place rather than
not even exactly. And so then it's all like culminates
in this big horror. And then the other thing I
think that music and that musical background I guess really
taught me was like I think you face so much
rejection doing music and the arts generally, there will always
(18:01):
be people who are far better than you, like always,
and you have to work so hard and put in
so many extra hours and it's not very well. It
definitely wasn't where I was like considered like cool or
prestigious or reputable or like whatever it might be. And
you did that at the same time, and I had
to spend so many hours outside of school and university
like doing the extra and then you were just constantly
(18:22):
shut down, shut down, like the entire time. So it
teaches you to have a very good relationship with rejection
because literally just constantly like I don't remember, like this
is norm due to be a soul story, but like
as in like I don't remember a single time when like,
well there are probably like two three times total where
I went for something and actually got it and it was,
(18:44):
you know, the thing I'd really worked for most of
the rest of the time, Like you do a fuck
load and my lad sweat, Yeah, well, thank.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
You very much. Exactly.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
I'm really good at those like essentially where you do
a fuckload of work and then you don't get anything
for it, and in fact you're kind of shut down
and they're like, you know, the rest of your life,
they're not going to be like, oh, you're really bad
at this, but like you're kind of being consistently told
like other people are better than you. And I think
because I did that from so early, Like I worked
(19:13):
like a theedral from when I was eight, which essentially
was like like twenty or so hours on top of
schoolwork every week of music, and then like from that
point onwards, it's like it's actually just like a I
think the main thing it taught me is just like
a crash course in being happy with rejection or just
like being okay and being able to work really really
(19:33):
hard and then get just be shut down over and
over and.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
Yeah, which is huge in business and huge in entertainment one.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
Hundred percent, and just like I think, a very good
life skill, like you have a we see all of that,
you know, TikTok stuff for example on like rejection exposure therapy,
and I I think actually I saw it a lot,
like I wait, you come across people who maybe haven't
had as much rejection, and therefore the rejection they do
have really really shut them down. It's totally natural reaction
(20:01):
but actually if you're consistently like even now, there have
been so many things that I mean, you know, obviously
it wouldn't be public, but like so many things that
I've interviewed for or tried out for, like whatever it
might be that I would really want, and it's like
if it just comes through and it's a rejection, it's.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
Like cool, yeah, yeah, next, yeah, exactly. I've been doing
this recently where I've been like emailing, emailing guess that
I really want and they are ridiculous. Guess ridiculous. Otherwise
the answer is no, yeah, let's go exactly, you don't
take And I will say the other week, I was
like smobiles assistant said no, and she actually emailed me back,
(20:44):
and I was like that's a win. Yeah, it was
like an email back was a win. And I genuinely
was like throughout all this rejection, like the fact that
I've gotten through in somebody's evening. Maybe my favorite is
when they come back with something that like it's actually
unnecessary color on top of the rejection, it's like, oh, yeah,
we really don't like this type of thing. We don't.
They're like, oh, okay, but we're not prioritizing this kind
(21:04):
of exposure and not well, actually, we just don't like
you at all. She's actually got really not certain baths,
but like she actually really terrible experience. Yeah exactly, and yeah,
but it was really nic They sent me this lovely man.
I was like, that is the biggest win. A direct
no was the biggest win. And I was like the
hundred set of my character.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
And I think that, like for anyone who maybe knows
that that is an area that they haven't got enough
exposure to, like purposefully putting yourself in that track, I
think is one of the best things you can do
because until you're used to rejection, you're going to continuously,
continuously be scared of it and also probably have an
underlying fear of even going for things where you think
you might be rejected. Whereas like we know that like
(21:46):
the surface area of luck thing, for example, is all
around like putting yourself in positions where you could get lucky,
like not that way but what you've got, but like
essentially where like we've said it, like you miss one
hundred percent of the shots you don't take, So if
you're not putting yourself in those environments, you don't know
whether Yeah, they wanted these someone with these ten qualifications
(22:09):
and you only have three. But actually they decided you
were better at these other things. And like, you never
would have known if you hadn't put yourself there. And
if you're scared of rejection, that's going to be very hard.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
Yeah, it's a huge thing to learn speaking of something
that wasn't a rejection maybe, but I think was a
great success. When did you get the idea for Tala
and where did the name come from? Oh?
Speaker 2 (22:33):
Yeah, I can tell you. It was a very boring Sorry, sorry,
I'll try.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
It was roll it out, let's go.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
So yeah, I started Tyler in my final year at university.
Actually before that, like the month before that month I
told you about where everything counts towards your degree.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
So that was really smart. Wag did you do that well?
Speaker 2 (22:50):
Because I was meant to exactly I love it except breaking. No,
it was meant to essentially launch a good while before then.
It just kept getting pushed for a number of tif
reasons like manufacturing delays, a number of these different things,
and then I was just like, we just have to
get it out because I'm paying people and we just
we need to launch basically, and it just happened to
fall at the worst possible time. But rewinding back, I
(23:11):
got the idea for the business about a year before.
I guess like I was very much like within the space,
like I was wearing a lot of active where I was,
I was a student and I went to the gym,
so like, obviously I was wearing active most of the time,
and I had really strong opinions on like how things
fit and how things felt. And I felt like a
lot of I felt like a lot of designs within
(23:35):
the industry were either like super revealing, which actually I
don't find that flattering on me. We do, you know, gorgeous,
like strappy bras and like all of that, and they
look amazing, but I think that, like I, it felt
like it either needed to be teeny tiny or it
needed to be kind of frumpy, and I wasn't. I
was like, actually, that's not where I like to kind
of sit in terms of the designs I go for.
(23:57):
But also one of the main things was that I'd
moved away from fast fashion consumption in my day to
day life, so I just wasn't. I wasn't, Like, I
don't know, I used to terrible, but I used to
like have contracts with like PLT and a number of
different fast fashion houses and all of that. Like with
my with fast fashion houses was really like blowing them
up in the Alvy Mate like direction.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
But yeah, and they ran exactly but I had essentially
had contracts with them, and that was a big part
of my job.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
And I literally stopped that overnight, Like I canceled all
my contracts. I lost like seventy five percent of my
income because I was just like, this is not something
I want to stand by. I really don't like it.
I feel shit every time I post about it. Yeah,
and then I kind of moved away from it in
my day to day like actual consumption, and I just
realized that active where was like a glaringly big gap
in that way because you don't because you think of
(24:50):
it as like a necessity for the thing you're doing,
you kind of look less at it, being like a
cherry on top, and therefore you're like, oh, I'm not
really thinking about the material or who's made it or
any of that. And so I had kind of realized
that I'd moved away from that in my day to
day but not necessarily my active wear. And then the
biggest solutions that I was finding from my day to day,
(25:11):
which were things like rental and pre owned and like
amazing ethical brands.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
All of this were either not really.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
Available in active wear for reasons like pre owned and
rental people aren't as keen on for active Well, yeah
they do exist, but like, yeah, you know stuff probably
well you probably had like that's the thing, Like there
are solutions for it, but it's probably not going to
reach a mass market change level.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
No.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
And then also with the ethical brands, there were some
brands that had done some really amazing things, but again
they were like they were probably about fifty percent more
price wise, and so I wanted to look into creating
an option that was granted, like not about being small
and artisanal. It was kind of can we do better
(25:56):
at scale? So like, can we have some baseline assumptions
in terms of like what we are and aren't going
to do in terms of fabrics, in terms of factories,
in terms of dyeing processes, in terms of sampling, in
terms of packaging, in terms of all of these different things,
because I think people think of you know, those types
of things in terms of just materials, whereas it's actually
(26:16):
so much more behind the scenes, like zero percent to
landfill pledges, not restocking during sales and therefore just you know,
trying to sell loads and loads of stuff at sale
prece like all of that, and so we kind of
I wanted to create an active where brand that ticked
those boxes and also was like you wouldn't see a
difference in terms of like fit. Yeah, and it wasn't
(26:37):
fifty percent more expensive. So it took a long time
because that's quite hard. And I think that you know,
there are a lot of our ideals around what you
would want from lots of brands you shop from. I
think realistically a lot of the time they haven't been
done for a reason because it's like not maintainable. But
we yeah, I kind of got to starting that about
(26:57):
a year before it ended up launching, and then launched that,
as I said, in May of twenty nineteen, and now
now seven years later, crazy and she's thriving.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
She is driving. I was there the other day. Oh yeah,
when you're in Australia. I sent you a message. Oh yeah, yeah,
it was like checking up on your first baby. Well
thenk you they was either us talk members are really nice,
everyone's love. Yeah, she was I'm going to give her
a shout out. She had read hair. That's what I remember.
Was it at the Carnaby Street store or the Westfield one,
the one in Carnoby Street. She was delight there you go.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
Everyone's amazing. Yeah, I think so again. I mean, like
it obviously separate, but like we with the store expansion,
for example, it was like, how do we create an
in person environment that reflects are online and kind of
like who we are in HQ and all of that
like really feels in that way. Rather than just being like, yeah,
we'll just hire these people in as quickly as possible.
(27:53):
It was like, no, it's like we're like a you know, we're.
Speaker 1 (27:55):
Like a Girl's Girl brand. We're like her. We know
how we want you to feel in the clothes, we
know how we want you to feel in the shop,
so like we've got to represent that in the physical space.
The other thing I liked about the Tower store and
then one move on to a whole podcast on this,
I really liked that, like you guys had all the
sizes out mm hmm. I was like, oh, thank god. Yeah,
(28:17):
because I'm a big conscious decision Oh great, I was like,
this is amazing. Because I hate when you go to
a store it's like, so do you have what's the
biggest size you have? Yeah? Can you get it for me?
And it's like it just kind of always sucks. Yeah,
they I don't know. It's not a good feeling.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
Yeah, of course, And like you know, there've been lots
of I would say, like learning cubs because again it's
like you're you go from running like what's an online
store where everything is in one warehouse, it is getting
shipped out from one place, and so everything's in one
place to even like everything new you launch, needing it
to get to one store, but you also need like
(28:52):
the exact right size ratio you don't know who's going
to come in that day, and like knowing that you
need like you can estimate it, but like how many
of those pieces do you actually need in the store
across how many sizes, different colors, like all of this
like it's you know, I'm sure we won't have got
it right for everyone, but it's a it's been a
massive like learning curve, and I'm very proud of like
the reviews and kind of love we get from how
(29:13):
people feel.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
Let's take it down. Let's take a turn for the worst. Yeah,
it's no more compliments, no more good stuff you're doing
for the environment, women's stuff. Confidence. What's been the biggest
like oh fuck moment of running a business? Oh, there
have been so many. They are every day, they are relentless. No,
I think, I mean, I actually do think that, like
(29:36):
that is one of the most defining parts of having
a business, is like you are constantly just like on
the floor.
Speaker 2 (29:42):
She just like why like more and more of this,
Like my propensity to deal with stress now I think
is so high actually for the bad reason of the
fact that like shit is thrown at me every single day,
like big, big stuff, you know. And I think that's
just part of having a business. And then you adding
more businesses, it's kind of like just increases the cadence
(30:03):
of these types of things coming up. There are many
different ones, Like there have been big o fuck ones,
Like in like twenty twenty twenty twenty one, tla Very
nearly went bye bye, and that was like a good
year long battle like to and within that, like I
(30:24):
can't remember how long it would have been, but it
would have been like around two months of like working
out whether we're going to make payroll every single week
and being like.
Speaker 1 (30:32):
Right, that would be the most stressful part I can oh, yeah,
like it's okay if I go bankrupt. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
Well I had times when I was literally like I
would pay salaries out of like my Monzo account, like
as in like you know, I had like one payroll
that we weren't going to make and I was like
fuck And I sold my car the next day to
like someone I found online, which was literally like a
what was it? It was like a they'd come to
your house and they'd just buy a car a few
and it was like I don't even know if this
is but it was like, as so long as I
(30:59):
just want to make account before they leave, I was like, sounds.
Speaker 1 (31:02):
Sounds like my solution for the week.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
So yeah, there have been like big like big, terrible
like prolonged, very life ruining at the time kind of
things to go through, and then there were the small
ones every day like there's you know, the other day
we had our like we did like a hotel tala.
(31:26):
It was kind of like it.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
I saw it was so beautiful, thank you. It was gorgeous,
thank you.
Speaker 2 (31:30):
It was essentially like a campaign that we did, like
what Tala would be like as a hotel and then
hosted some people there. And you know, even on the
first day of that, like we sent two of our
team members early to set everything up with like all
of the stock and the decorations and like the cute
little touches and everything, and five out of ten suitcases
(31:51):
got lost and ended up like floating around Europe. And
like the whole reason you send people early is that
they can like set things up.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
It's just a little bit of chale.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
Yeah, yeah, so you know, that type of stuff happens
all the time. Same with I went out to New
York Fashion Week. We were doing a New York Fashion
Week activation and I was there for forty eight hours
before I had to go somewhere else and I literally
landed and my one suitcase that I had with me
was lost and they were like, we can get it
back to you in forty eight hours, and I was like, perfect,
We've got our New York Fashion Week thing tomorrow, so
(32:25):
it should be sooner.
Speaker 1 (32:26):
Yeah, have we considered teleporting? Yeah? Did they pay for that?
Speaker 2 (32:32):
They don't think I ended up getting any compensation.
Speaker 1 (32:34):
Oh, this is my this is a random hill I die.
But Airline compensation. I found a business on it though.
Oh yeah, I will always get a compensation from airlines. Really,
Oh I.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
See, I'm good at a stunny worded email around something
like that.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
Oh no, I have beef with probably every airline. I'm
not going to go into them, but one, and they
spannsored the podcast and I love that's the only reason.
Oh my god. Really yeah, literally, I had anything Actually
i'll tell this story but I won't name names, but
an airline who I had like the most despicable experience
with with my dad randomly was like, we really wanted
to one to the podcast and I was like no,
(33:08):
and my team was like, was like, you really should do.
I was like, I would never, I would never sell
my soul because I yeah anyways. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
Also, then when I flew to my next place, they
literally I was like, don't fly out to New York.
Keep it in London. I'll just get it when I'm
back in London because I only need it for the
next forty hours. And then literally as I flew off
to the next place, it flew from London to New York.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
I was like, Okay, I know, and it's so hard
because it's like I also will say, I'm like every
single person who works for an airline, I'm like, I
love you. Oh yeah, I'm like you guys do that
probably a very hard job of like the only time
people want to talk to you is when they're really mad.
So it's always being but it's stuff like that where
it's like the coordination, where it's like their policies and
it's like this policy just fuck need to We'll move
(33:53):
on from airline politics. That was my favorite favorite publical question. Yeah,
we can go on for ages. That's to be out
part two episodes. Come back for the part two. You
have such a natural talent for business. Have you ever
been like, I'm done with that and what do you
(34:14):
think you do instead? Oh?
Speaker 2 (34:16):
So, I'd say there have definitely been times where I've
considered walking away, not recently and not since I've kind
of got my life balance a little bit more on
track and therefore like moved away from burnout, and you know,
there are still little bits and times where I'm like,
for fuck's sake, but I do genuinely, absolutely love what
I do, and I feel very privileged to be able
(34:36):
to do what I do. And also I've built my career.
I've like kind of reverse engineered my career towards exactly
what I want it to be. Like I kind of
fell into being an influencer at the one point and
then was like, this is I do not like again
massive privilege. But it's like I do not like the
day to day of this. I do not like needing
to be liked in order for my career to be
(34:57):
work like doing well. I do not like into my
personal life for my career to be doing well all
of these things. And so literally built myself an office
job in the businesses and like, so I do think
that I've like my job is made for me, like
it's very tailored to me, which I feel very lucky
for for about because.
Speaker 1 (35:20):
There is luck involved. There'd be luck baby be lucky
baby lucky. Yes, sometimes yes, But I think that the
you know, it absolutely takes it.
Speaker 2 (35:31):
It's tall, and I think that there have you know,
there have honestly been so many times where I'm like
what why have I like, why why did I need
to make it so hard for myself? Just because like
there's not really a reason to take it this far?
Like why four businesses? Why not one business? You know,
why like, why do you need to do this? But
I think realistically, as I've said, it's all built for me,
(35:55):
and it's all been built around me, Like I've built
it that way, and I feel very fortunate too, Like
I think one of the biggest privileges in life is
being able to do work that you love and that
you genuinely love, because like everyone needs to work, or
most people need to work to be able to actually
enjoy it and feel like you are day to day
(36:17):
able to use your brain and kind of engage in
the way you want to and be able to make
money from it.
Speaker 1 (36:25):
Like I feel like that's very very lucky. Such a
good reminder as well.
Speaker 2 (36:30):
Yeah, and so yes and no, you probably find me
some days where I'm like, yeah, absolutely, I need.
Speaker 1 (36:36):
To get out of it to the choir I got,
Yeah exactly. I like something that you mentioned before, which is,
you know, you've you've spent your entire adult life online
at this point, how do you keep parts of you
just for you? You've obviously made a conscious decision about
that in many ways.
Speaker 2 (36:55):
Yeah, So, as I kind of alluded to, then I
made a DECI is at one point to basically decide.
I was like I'm not going to be an influencer,
which you could absolutely still put me in that box.
Speaker 1 (37:04):
Now I probably wouldn't there, to be honest, thank you.
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (37:09):
I think that like the as a tangent, like the
negative correlate. The negative kind of connotations of influencer is
very much directly correlated to the fact that it is
one of the only industries where women out perform, oh yeah,
and make more money than.
Speaker 1 (37:26):
Men and is a bad term. But if it's not
what your job title is, yeah, no, no, of course.
Speaker 2 (37:32):
But I think that, like I try and get comfortable
with the fact that, like, technically it is what I'm
doing in you know, certain areas, and like, probably the
only reason we have these negative connotations around it is
because women outperform in that area and therefore naturally it's easy.
Speaker 1 (37:47):
Yeah, it must be so easy, and it must be.
Speaker 2 (37:49):
Vapid, and it must be all of these different things.
Any Way, I.
Speaker 1 (37:54):
Kind of decided that.
Speaker 2 (37:56):
That wasn't for me in that I didn't enjoy the
day to day, as I said, so I built myself,
you know, I deleted all my videos off YouTube overnight
and kind of that was where my main earnings were
and I stopped really posting properly online for like two
three years and concentrate on building businesses. I was like,
I want to build these into like what can actually
(38:18):
sustain me, and the team is a job, so double
down on that. And I think that, you know, that
has enabled me to be in the fortunate position where
I don't need to share anything that I don't want
to share in order to make income.
Speaker 1 (38:35):
And so I feel like I'm in a nice position
now where I can share what i'd like to share
and what I find would be helpful to share and
feel happy doing so. And I feel much more happy
doing so knowing that there is not no obligation, and
so I think that actually has I don't know, probably
(38:56):
in a weird way recently, like some people over the
past few years have been like, oh, I think you're
sharing more, and I was like, yeah, no, I probably am,
because I don't feel like backed against a wall in
a way of like, oh God, I've got to give
you this vulnerability so that you actually like me, like
it's an exchange, and I don't want that, like I
don't want to need to give you all of the
five bad things that are happening in my life for
you to give me basic human respect, and so I
(39:19):
think that I'm, I guess, in a happy place around
that now it's organic. With that in mind, there has
been things that you have shared online that are very,
very personal and it's obviously come from an organic place
for you to share it, including a mischaracter you had
last year. Did you think about not sharing that? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (39:39):
Absolutely, And I didn't share it for a good while
after it happened, in not a good while, like a
few months, wow. And I think that I was driven
by a few reasons for sharing it. I think that
like one part of it was like, definitely, and I
wouldn't stand by this is a good reason sharing, but
(40:01):
I definitely like it was meant to be a really
intense work month and I still worked a lot. But
I think that like I just hadn't been myself and
hadn't like done things to the best of my ability
that month, and so I kind of felt like I
was like, oh, by the way, guys, this is why
I've been so shit. But that wasn't the main reason
for sharing. The main reason was more the fact that
(40:23):
I found it so insane, how there was so much
taboo around it. And how it was automatically like you're pregnant, yay,
oh you miscarried, all, let's not talk about that like
that is the blame is on the woman, the kind
of I don't know, the onus for everything was on
the woman. The taboo is on them. They mostly can't
(40:43):
tell their workplace because there's still loads of associations around it,
and they don't know if they're actually going to get
the support and if that's just going to make them
feel even shitter, and you know, whether it's something that
they even want to say, because then their employer knows
they're trying for a baby, like all of these different things.
And I kind of just wanted to talk about it
because it was actually so fucking hard to go through
(41:03):
that I just was like, I can't believe that this
in any way is made to be like made out
to be not necessarily like my fault, but kind of
like we shouldn't talk about it because it might embarrass
other people or it might make people feel awkward. And
I even had that from like some people quite close
(41:25):
to me, when I was like, never even like saying
the word or acknowledging the thing or even like asking
how I was like it was very you know, and
I just thought, God, that's crazy, Like people for years
and years decades haven't said anything about it ever because
it's just a taboo subject. And I just thought, I
(41:46):
don't like taboo subjects that are taboo and create shame
for the woman when there's no reason for it.
Speaker 1 (41:54):
And it's like this final frontier of grief almost that
we are yet to really have any good language for
speaking about, Like we don't have great language for talking
about grief in other areas or mental health in other
areas or anything. But for this one, it does feel like, really,
you don't see anybody talk about it. Yeah, and that
must have been really scary for you to step into
(42:15):
and be like, if I don't see anybody talking about it,
how are people going to react? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (42:20):
No, absolutely, And I think that I do believe that
when you have a platform, you do actually have some
sort of responsibility to, well, you have more propensity to
make the world a place that the place that you
would want it to be, so you have a sort
of responsibility to Okay, well, no, you don't need to
share things that you don't want to share.
Speaker 1 (42:40):
Like that.
Speaker 2 (42:41):
I don't think is owed to the general public. But
I do think that if you can do something to
make the world a place that's more reflective of the
place that you'd want it to be, than like why not.
And so yeah, it was a decision at the time
because I wanted to. I wanted it to be something
where you can say that without like I felt like
(43:03):
I couldn't even say it without like ruining someone else's day.
And I was just like, I get that, But at
the same time, like, if I need to disclose this
to you for some reason, I need to not go
into overdrive of like, oh, I'm so sorry, but it's
also fine. It's fine, you know, like you don't get
you know, it's okay, and it's like it's really difficult.
Speaker 1 (43:21):
And every time you swallow it, it's like, I'm so
worried about burdening this person one time, and it's like
and I burden myself every day, Yeah, every single day.
Were you worried about a particular kind of reaction? Was
the one that scared you the most that people might
have I think.
Speaker 2 (43:33):
Quite because it was so fresh in terms of like emotions,
and I think, you know, it will be for a
long time. I think I'm always worried about like the
Internet having like fuel with which to you know, throw
it you when is desired. So like, for example, I
did a post a few weeks later that was like
(43:53):
talking about the risk of reform coming into power in
the UK and the different impacts that would have on
essentially society in like various different ways, and one of
someone commented on that being like you should be concentrating
more on keeping your babies alive than.
Speaker 1 (44:14):
Talking about this. I'm just laughing about. Obviously it's a
lot of horror comment, but it's also so outrageous that
I was like, like I literally saw it while having
backfast with my husband, and I literally like choked, Like
I was like, oh my god, you're not going to
believe this. And I was just like that, to be
fair as you can tell, like that type of thing
doesn't really affect me, because you've got to be so
fucked up for that to actually look it anywhere out
(44:37):
of your keyboard, like for you to be brain email brain,
like unless that's a violent, intrusive thought that you literally
cannot keep under control. Like the fact that you've now
put that onto paper and like got that out is
just I have to feel so sorry for you because
you must be so miserable. And I know people say
that it's like they must be miserable, they must be miserable.
Speaker 2 (44:58):
It's like I don't believe that all online commentary must
be from people who are miserable. But it's literally like wow,
like wow, you must be so hurt inside about like
I don't know who didn't listen.
Speaker 1 (45:09):
To you when, but like wow, I almost see that
as like soo like sociopathy. Oh yeah, I genuinely want
this person. I want to put them in a little
cage and I'm just like, what's wrong with you? Yeah?
Literally to have a look around like that's that's a
good I actually very few things like me speechless. Oh
that was. I was like, what was your husband's reaction?
(45:31):
Because yours was like, oh my god?
Speaker 2 (45:32):
Was he just like he was quite angry about it,
and he was like how I think. I mean he'd
obviously gone through it as well. I think he'd you know,
seen me going through that, and then was like fucking hell,
like that is terrible. But I thought it was so
bad that I actually found it hilarious, like as in
like I send it to some of my friends and I.
Speaker 1 (45:51):
Was like, oh my god, and my.
Speaker 2 (45:53):
Friends are sending me paragraphs back like this person is
like probably, and I was like, guys, I'm laughing, like
I'm literally laughing because you go that it's a horseshoe,
like come like so derayed. That is just back to money. Actually,
like you you have more problems than I have. If
you are sending the anonymous account. Probably yeah, probably like
(46:14):
Psalms thirteen in the literally love that neighbor. Sorry not
to laugh at the end of what was a heavy conversation.
Sorry innes sing song voice.
Speaker 1 (46:27):
Shit again the thing you're going to be thinking about.
I know I'm going to go home and be like,
dang it. Sorry not to not to make you feel
but I just think that comments crazy. And you're expecting
again now, and I get so many questions about becoming
(46:48):
a mother in your twenties. I haven't had that experience yet,
and I don't actually get to talk to many people
who had. So what is surprising you most about that
whole chapter in your life, from finding out you were
pregnant for the first time to now carrying your second child.
Speaker 2 (47:01):
I think what's been surprising me most generally is like,
how outrageous and varied and intense. All the different symptoms
of pregnancy are that are our one hundred percent kept
under wraps for a reason. And I would have one
hundred percent still decided that I wanted a baby and
that I wanted to be pregnant, But at the same time,
like the fine print is not clear, and I think
(47:23):
we like again, it's like our sex education for women
is so terrible.
Speaker 1 (47:28):
Sorry, I'm not crying. It's reflex the role. I want
more sex. Like this sex education for women and actually
probably more for girls is like so so terrible and
so fixated on like don't have sex, don't get pregnant.
Like okay, well what about when we're talking about like
(47:49):
if you choose to get pregnant or you find yourself
in a situation where you are pregnant, Like what's actually happening?
What are all the different symptoms? Like there are some
fucked symptoms that are absolutely kept from you. Like what
the I think it's the average woman ends up with
three point one decayed teeth after pregnancy because the baby
just takes all the nutrients from all your calcium, like
(48:10):
everything from you. There's like all sorts like your absoplit
in half sometimes they'll have to be surgically put back together.
But like all of the I honestly think I'm antipr
for pregnancy, and I don't mean to be that way
because I do think that like, if you would like
to be pregnant, then hopefully you're able to get pregnant.
I also do just think that it is presented to
(48:31):
women as a a necessity, be a kind of well,
this is just the way it is. And mark my words,
if the symptoms were on the other gendered foot, there
would be better research, there would be better medication, there
would be better management, all of these different things. There
would probably be paid pregnancy leave, like all of these
(48:53):
different things. I just think it's not being made clear.
And I think that anyone who wants to have a
child would still decide to do so. It's just that
there is not a lot of well spread educational information.
So I'd say say that's the biggest shocking case. It's
not clear. By my general demeanor. It's like people will
(49:14):
climb the mountain, but they should know what's on the
mountains well exactly, they still to do it, like I
still would have done it, but at the same time,
like you don't need to be lying to me about
like all the things I'm going to go through, and
of course that is to somewhat our responsibility to find out,
but at the same time, like it's a major medical
event that's essentially considered twelve. Yeah, you're a girlypop so yeah, sorry,
(49:37):
teeth anymore, Well the baby took them. Yeah, obviously. My
boyfriend went to the movies the other day and he
came back and he was like white faced. He was like,
do you know that women proove themselves when they give birth?
And I was like, yeah, he goes seventy five percent
of them do yeah, And I was like yeah, I know.
(49:58):
And he was like, they need to tell what people
about that, and I was like, that's why. That's the
lost of the problem. I was going to say. I know.
He went on a whole Google page and I was like,
and this is why that's important as well, because often
the burden is on you experiencing it as a mother,
women around you, hearing those feeling scared, never like men
just knowing the woman's experience. Well slightly tied to that,
(50:19):
I read an article I watched a tick shop.
Speaker 2 (50:23):
Right the other day, very very interesting and it was
essentially about the research gap between men and women when
it comes to parenting and why it creates default parenthood
and why it creates therefore, like essentially the uneven society
in which we operate, where women are expected to take
on a significant amount of unpaid labor in comparison to men,
particularly when it comes to things like parenting, but also
(50:43):
housework and all of this. And it was essentially just saying,
how like women, because pregnancy is happening to them, will
take on the burden of education around birth, around pregnancy,
around parenting, around like baby's health, all of these different things,
and then they take on that burden and that naturally
(51:03):
isn't replicated in the men because pregnancy isn't happening to them,
Like ideally they would see it as such if their
partner is pregnant, but it's actually not naturally the case,
even i'd expect in some progressive relationships. And therefore there
is this research gap, which means that when by the
time you have the baby, the woman spends a lot
(51:24):
of time educating the man and maybe correcting on certain
things like oh, you meant to support the head, or
you meant to do this, or like whatever it might be,
which results in the default parent becoming the mum despite
the fact that you both had a baby at the
same time, and this obviously naturally then goes around in
circles in terms of who does more parenting, childcare, like
all of these different things. And I think that's so
interesting again because it's like pregnancy is seen as a
(51:46):
women's issue and it's not advertised thoroughly at all regardless, So.
Speaker 1 (51:53):
What are we gonna do about it? What's so, what
are we gonna do about work? Grace is gonna make
some tiktoks? That's what are we gonna do about it?
It's gonna make everyone hear about it. I can't remember
what that meme was, but it was like being the
opposite of someone who suffers in silence, like you will
be forced or like you know, quiet interests or all
of that, like you will be forced to her about
what I'm interested in and what I'm reading about. Yeah,
I'm afraid I want men to make those tiktoks as well.
(52:15):
I feel like, yes, I just think that would be
just so valuable to you. Here's what I'm learning. I
know I want to like them. I like to repost them. Yeah,
she's fighting the good fact. Yeah, exactly. I have two
more questions for you about motherhood, and then one more question.
That's three, three more questions. I know, thank you. Another
(52:38):
thing on my on my resume. You're having a girl.
What are you most excited to do with her? I
don't know. I think like my biggest, like one of
my biggest life aims. And I think this maybe surprises
people because I think we do group particularly women into boxes.
You're like, you're a career woman, or you're like a
(52:59):
mumsy woman, or you're like this.
Speaker 2 (53:02):
But like my biggest like aim in life is to
have a close knit, loving family, Like that is just
like my driving force, and I feel very excited about
the opportunity of building that with my husband and building
it to be exactly what we have hoped. And I
(53:23):
have no doubt that it's going to be very you know,
there are going to be many things that don't go
to plan. But at the same time, like I just
can't wait, Like I can't wait to for my life
to get a bit smaller for a while, Like I
really I think I've concentrated for a very long time
on not making my life as big as possible, because
that's not been the driving force, but like reaching everything
(53:47):
I want to reach in life and like kind of
really working so hard to get there, and of course
I'll continue to do so. Like I feel very strongly
about being very open about the fact that I will
be going back to work looking full time.
Speaker 1 (54:01):
And I think that it's insane that anyone who would
know me or see what I've done be surprised at
the fact that I will have child's care or the
fact that I will you know, be working, or any
of these things. But I just think that, like I
really can't wait for the concentration just to be a
bit little bit simpler, and like I just know, like
(54:21):
all I care about generally is as much as you
know I care about work and all of this, Like
that's kind of one side. The main things I care
about are like relationships and the people around me, and
I just can't wait to build our little, oh little family.
I actually saw this quote from Steve Crah I think
(54:41):
You'll love, which is he was talking about how when
he had a kid, he was like everything in my
professional life got easier because speaking of failure is like
I didn't care if they didn't like me or if
I failed because I had I had all this well
plain too. Oh my god, I'm so excited for you.
I want to feel the episode with this question, which is,
what is one piece of advice you have for people
(55:03):
in their twenties that we haven't spoken about today? So much?
There's so much I want to say. Can I split
them up? You can do as many as you want.
I feel like you are for an hour. So were
you going to start that two now? Okay?
Speaker 2 (55:21):
Career wise, yeah, I think that there's a lot of
focus right now on getting as far as you can
in your twenties and being as big as you can
in whatever sense that might be. So, for example, if
it is impressive in your industry to be freelanced rather
than to be within a company, there's such a rush
to get there. There's such a rush to like get
(55:43):
those accolades or establish those things that make you be
taken more seriously. I honestly could not recommend enough, and
I wish I'd done more of this. Learning as much
as you can on employers' money, like upskilling, trying new jobs,
work in different types of teams, talking to as many
people as possible about their jobs, like your career is
(56:08):
much longer than it's made out to be on TikTok.
And that's not me kind of patronizing and saying like you,
but like that is a lot of the media we're
consuming and we're seeing, you know, success looks like this
at thirty. Your career is going to be a hell
of a lot longer than thirty. And if you want
to enjoy it and to have longevity and all of that,
(56:28):
the more you can do to truly learn as much
as possible and to put yourself in Like what about
imagining an amazing life at forty fifty sixty That might
not be about working all the time, But how are
you going to get there? Is it going to be
jumping ship at twenty three when actually you don't know
enough to do that. No, I believe so strongly that
we're it's very glamorized online to sell a certain dream
(56:51):
around a certain type of career, and actually the best
careers are built over time, based on accumulating expertise and contacts,
a network overall, and skills and passions, and so focus
on that rather than like a big shiny title or
a big move to freelance rather than employed or whatever
(57:15):
it might be for your industry. I think that's very
important career side, and I think that's often missed. Then
on the other side general life, I just think, like,
don't let anyone make you feel like you're behind again.
We have such a focus on like thirty hunder thirty,
you know your life ending, then like all of this,
I'm so fucking excited to turn thirty, Like there's so
(57:38):
much I'm looking forward to that I just got like,
I think this twenties is like a hot pot of
kind of just being thrown in there and being like
a chieve it's much as possible and like.
Speaker 1 (57:44):
Find out who you are and like make some friends
in that fallen out and get marine and have.
Speaker 2 (57:49):
A ami and like all of these different things, and
it's just like again, life is long, hopefully, and like
you're just at the beginning of it. Like, don't let
other people's need to rush make you rush. Because I
think as well that we have like this warped perception
of time. And if you're aiming to do xyzz by thirty,
(58:10):
then okay, you get to thirty and then what like
what happens? Then don't give yourself that like Olympic gold
medal syndrome where you're working towards all these things, or
you're like just staying in a relationship because you don't
want to be single at thirty, and then you get
to thirty. Okay, now what you're pushing for another year
and another year and another year and another year. You're
only at thirty four, so like as in like start
(58:31):
thinking long term and start thinking about like what you
actually enjoy and what you want your life to look
like rather than what you want other people to perceive
it as.
Speaker 1 (58:41):
Oh I love that advice. Thank you, especially as somebody
whose career is dead at thirty. Psychology of your twenty
Oh my god, what you to do? I know, I
really screwed the proach on that one. Thank you so
much for such a wonderful, wonderful advice and such wonderful Canada.
You're genuinely just a delightful person to talk to. Thank
you so much. That's very kind. How are you? Thanks girl?
(59:01):
I honestly think that, like when people have a certain
I'm going to give you one more compliment. Are there ready? Yeah? Yeah?
Then you can then get out. Yeah. I really do
think that, Like you see somebody online and you're like, oh,
they seem really nice, and there's always I don't have
this feeling, but like there's always the thing of like
I wonder if they're like that in real life, And
it's like you are somebody I can say for people listening,
you're a fan of Grace, like one hundred percent like that,
(59:24):
if not better in person that you just have such
a You just exude such a brilliance. So I appreciate
you coming on the psychology of your twenties. Thank you
for having you and the baby, me and the baby,
the first baby on the podcast. What do you have
to say for yourself? Just acid refo. I'm going to
leave everything in the description Where to listen to working hard,
(59:47):
Where to buy a piece of Taler's workout gear. I
honestly swear by it. Your cinch single it tops, Oh ye,
so amazing. I have like three colors brown, black, blue,
if you want to by my wardrobe will and uh yeah,
everything else that we can find you at. As always, guys,
thank you for listening. If you've made it this far,
leave a little baby emoji in the Spotify comments down
(01:00:10):
below to wish Grase congratulations and good luck on her
on entering impending birth, and I know I didn't want
to be like impending birth. And otherwise. You can also
watch episodes like this on Netflix. You can follow us
on Instagram substack. It's all going to be down there,
But until next time, be safe, be kind, be gentle
to yourself. We will talk very very soon.
Hello everybody. I'm Jemma Spike and welcome back to the
Psychology of Your Twenties, the podcast where we talk through
the biggest changes, moments, and transitions of our twenties and
what they mean for our psychology. Hello everybody, Welcome back
(00:26):
to the show. Welcome back to the podcast. It is
so great to have you here back for another episode
as we of course break down the psychology of our twenties.
There has been one special individual that we have wanted
to have on the podcast for a long time, someone
who has had such an interesting career, trajectory and life
that I think contains so many lessons for others in
(00:48):
their twenties. She's basically lived many lives during this decade,
which is a testament to her work ethic, but also
I think just our general ability to evolve time and
time again. You may know her as the founder of
Tala Shreddy the Productivity Method, or if you are an
OG fan, for her workout guides and plans. She is
also the host of the podcast Working Hard at Oxford Grad.
(01:10):
A genuinely all around cool person who we know and love.
Grace Beverley, Welcome to the Psychology of Your twenties. Thank
you so much. We'll see you're so good at reading.
You must have loved when they came to you in
class and they were like, can you read this sentence? Pee?
You did not start at once? Well, I practice no idea.
That's amazing reading compression. I'm going to put that up
(01:31):
reading brandan one hand. Wid We were saying, like before
we started that, when I read out the interest, you're
like sitting right next week. Is it like singing somebody
singing you happy birthday?
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Yeah, but then also saying like ten nice things about
you afterwards.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Yeah, yeah, it is a lot. Okay, briefly introduce yourself,
tell us a little bit about who you are as
a person, and then we're going to do some icebreakers. Perfect,
So I'm grace. What am I going to say about myself? So?
Speaker 2 (01:58):
I am an entrepreneur. I guess is probably like the
most all encompassing way of referring to what I do.
But it's, as you say, has evolved over the past
decade or so. So I started my first business when
I was in my first term or semester, I don't
know what you would call it at university, and I
have since started three more businesses, and I do a
(02:23):
lot of investing and advisory work as well on other
businesses that are kind of not in a similar space,
but essentially, like my expertise is around consumer businesses and
and kind of how they can appeal to their customers
and grow over time and all of that, so I
do a.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Lot of that work.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
I also have a podcast, I do socials, I guess,
just generally showing what I am doing in my day
to day and my day to day job. I would
consider the work within the businesses because that is what
I do day to day. Sorry, by the way, if
I'm very gurgly and acid refluxy, I'm.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
Afraid there's literally nothing we can do about. There is
something inside that There is a giant baby. It's like
encroaching upon my esophagus. And yeah, I just a baby.
Doesn't like it about Camascon that's in my bag. I
can't even tell you really, Yea, when you guys hear
(03:17):
a break and you know what we're doing. I love
that way of describing you because you're a very busy woman.
And before we get into what makes you busy, we're
gonna do a quick eyesbreaker. We ask these kind of
questions of all of our guests. Are you ready, I'm
so ready. Okay, Three to one favorite fast food order?
Speaker 2 (03:38):
Okay, as you can tell, I'm really gonna.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
Question. Fuck.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
It's hard because I was veggie until quite recently, and
like that's not very well, you know, catered for and
in fast food. So now, like everything, every time I
do try fast food, it's like a whole new world.
So I don't know if it's my go to you know. Sorry,
I'm really bad at being concise.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
This one I think will be easier. Please love last
thing you ordered online?
Speaker 2 (04:15):
Oh so I'm renovating at the moment, and I have been. Honestly,
Etsy's market value has gone.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
Up by about a trillion this week based on me
a lot of stock tip. Yeah sorry, this is a
stock tip value. Grace is on the shop exactly.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
Grace is on the shops. Get investing, not financial advice.
But I yeah, I've been. I've been all over the trinkets.
It's basically because we're so close now, I feel like
I can actually start to buy the little things. I
mostly want to save the little things for when you're
in and you're like, oh, I could use something for
that corner. But the things I've been going for a
generally like art, little like bookends, vintagey things I'm finding little.
(04:58):
I got a label, a vintage label for like the
laundry room door cute, which I liked. So you had
just a hell of a lot of little trinkets.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
Yeah, And are you so excitedly every time a package
comes or you at this stage where like you don't
know what it's going to be.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
Well, I've ordered them to the house and I'm not
currently in the house. So it's Christmas next Wednesday? Can okay?
Last sunset you saw?
Speaker 1 (05:22):
Oh sunset?
Speaker 2 (05:24):
I went on a little girl's trip a few weeks ago,
my girl's trip baby moon, we shall call it.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
It's not actually it was for everyone, but that's how
I was taking, I mean, last girl's trip before popping
out a baby.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
And we saw some beautiful sunsets there and it was
just so lovely. It was kind of we were in
this gorgeous village where you just walk down and you
just sit at a restaurant. You order some calamari, you
get everyone gets an approsperits apart from me. You just
have a nice little chat and like a game of
(05:58):
cards while the sun is setting, and that is just.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
That was God's plan for us all along. Were you
in Greece? Yes, Oh delightful. Yeah. What would your friend say?
Is your most annoying habit? Oh? Where do I start? Uh?
Speaker 2 (06:16):
Very bad at going with the flow? Me and the
flow m hmm. Not good friends. Which is great because
it does mean for every trip or whatever, like you know,
they're like, oh, trip made out of the group chat.
If I'm in the group chat. If you think this
isn't making out of the group chat, you are very
much mistaken, first of all. Second of all, the unfortunately
(06:36):
will be run as a military operation. So yeah, depends
how much you like that. Like great because you can,
I guess put your feet up. But you never know
what's going to happen when you open your what's up?
There might be twenty poles, there might be a spreadsheet,
There might be a little tick box you have to
fill in. There might be a Google doc. It's too much.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
Yeah. Wait, when you and your husband go on trips,
do you plan them? No? See this, I know, I
love it all I know guys, sorry to post, but
I one of my favorite things about my relationship is
that in the big wide world.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
I am like, you know, I'm feisty. I'm running around
doing all my independent things. When I'm at home, I
am baby. When I am in that relationship, I am
I baby. Yeah, I baby, no do things? Baby, feet up,
baby tommy tickles baby, baby, get fed, free time, baby.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
Baby, get fed well.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
Baby, don't know what airport going from, what terminal, what
time plane? And that as someone who is like so
aggressively type A and organizes every single other thing in
their life like that is I never thought I could
have that from relationship because I did kind of come
to terms with the fact that I was like, this
is just who I am. I can't expect anyone else
to have such high standards of organization because obviously you're
(08:03):
taking it too far.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
But lo and behold, here he came. But here he came.
There he was flying around the corner. And now I
get to be baby. Yeah the best. Okay, two more
texting or voice notes. I'm big on voice notes. I
just think there has to be a regular cadence of them,
(08:24):
and I think that I don't know, I think they
need to solve, like to serve a purpose.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
So, for example, if you're going quickly back and forth
in the workday. Is it helpful to have a voice note? No, like,
because I'm in a meeting.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
You've made it very hard for me to go to
listen to the meaning exactly and that I can't do that. Okay.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
And a book you think everybody should read, which, okay,
we were just going through some of some of the
best books. I'm having a really good reading year, and
I think it's only going to go from strength to
strength if I'm able to read in a maternity leave,
which my kindles a good old one handhold. So I'm,
you know, hoping. I just read Broken Country, which, oh
(09:05):
my god, was so good. I honestly so. I was
on my actual babymon as you can tell, I had
to have model the friend's baby moon and husband one's
the solo one happening. Well, yeah, this is it. It's
right here. It was my trip to this American and yeah, honestly,
(09:28):
I just did not move all day. I was completely transfixed.
It was so well written. I have quite a strict
over four rule on Goodreads. Not because I'm a snob,
although you could argue, but because there are so many
books out there that if I'm busy, the chances of me,
like if I can just heighten the chance of me
(09:49):
enjoying the book by it being above a four, because
I think what I used to fall into the trap
of a lot is that these really over hyped books,
they still won't be an over a four if they
are badly written. Like I am so sorry to everyone,
but like I really am not a Colleen Hoover fan,
and most of them are not over a four on
good Reads and they're in lies the lesson, and I, yeah,
(10:13):
so I generally just go for above a four and
I have my whole want to read list, and then
I can just filter it by the average rating.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
This is a mathematical affair. Yeah, I don't know why
I've taken your.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
Your quick fire questions so aggressively try to expand them
into the entire podcast, But yeah, sorry for taking it
so far.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
That's all right, you know what, I feel like we're
warmed up now though we know a bit more about
each other. We kind of already did, but you know,
the audience does. Let's talk about what you're here to
talk about, which is business in life and work. When
did you first start putting yourself out there online? Because
that's kind of the beginning of this whole story, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
Yeah, it absolutely is. And I think like one of
the maybe one of the misconceptions people get about my
story is because it all started so long ago online,
I think the assumption is that like the following was
built first and then it was like, oh, let's throw
businesses on top, which totally fair. Some of them were
because I obviously didn't start a fought businesses at once.
That would be absolutely saying. And I am a little
(11:19):
but like not that far, not that fast. And I
started my first business in my first year at university. Well,
actually I sold my first products online within kind of
six months of starting my socials, and they had just
been started as like an anonymous account where I was
just posting about like my fitness journey. So I was
interested in staying disciplined and going to the gym, and
(11:43):
that was not something that I had within my wheelhouse.
It just wasn't something that I was capable of doing.
And so I started the account as an I guess
like an accountability thing while I was in my last
year of sixth form. I don't know what you were
just like the ast year of like, yeah, it's high school,
but not if you like it's the two years after
if you left at sixteen, so like the eighteen one,
(12:04):
and I, yeah, I just started up the account. As
I said, it was anonymous, I didn't show my face.
All of that started, and then started selling products on
there a few months later. And then by the time
I actually went to start what I consider now like
my first business, I it was about a year later,
(12:25):
and I guess I just had like a year experimenting
with the because the first products I sold were digital
ebugs and or just ebogs, and essentially I guess i'd
kind of played around with that that year, being like, oh, okay,
well if I put it twenty percent off or like
a flash sale, then more people come in, or I
put it like a bundle deal, then people buy, you know,
(12:47):
people are more likely to buy two than one, or
like you know, you do a limited thing whatever. So
I kind of like come to terms with how some
of these things work. And so then by the time
I started the business like a year later, I kind
of realized that that was a viable option. And by
that point I'd gone from having like one or two
(13:08):
thousand followers to having.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
I think around one hundred thousand. Yeah, and so that's
when I started that. Okay, this brings me to some
follow up questions. Did you show your face first or
did somebody realize it was you? Oh?
Speaker 2 (13:24):
They realized it was it, Like which is so I
kind of showed my face out of like.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
Well here I am. There we go games up and
who was it? Do you remember? Oh?
Speaker 2 (13:34):
There was a lot of chat school. And I think
also because I was so I'd only joined that school
a year before, so I wasn't It was a school
obviously like with high school, like people had been there
since they were like eleven. I had not, and so
I was already kind of like new girly and then
(13:54):
just yeah, word got around and I remember coming back
to school after because it was like after the Easter
holidays and I'd been like, you know, doing my posting
and all of this, and then I just remember coming
back in and being like, I hear whispers.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
It's a gossip girl, the gossip girl real life, And
it was very like what the fuck?
Speaker 2 (14:15):
Because I think that now, even at the time, people
not everyone had personal Instagrams, Like it wasn't really like
we were on Facebook, Like people didn't have personal well
a few people did, but it wasn't like like you'd
be posting the toast you just buttered, like it wouldn't
be like a filter. Yeah, like it's been unlikely to
even be a selfie like car and pull yourself together,
(14:37):
whereas there was me like don't want.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
To them NYM today, here's the salon you know. Yeah,
so it just wasn't wasn't that well regarded. I would
say that sucks, But you made I feel like you've
got the opportunity to basically have like a playground to
understand business on your own.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
One hundred percent at very low risk as well. I
always I think that there's like a lot of narrative
on mine around like take the leap, quit your job,
do this, And it's like I was very fortunate to
be in the position where I never needed to do
that because a I started with digital products which have
basically zero sum cost, like you don't really need to
pay a lot to get into them. You just need
to do the work on it. And like I paid
(15:16):
fifty quid to a friend who is a graphic design
student to like make them look nice before Canvra before
Canva pre pre Canvra in the World PC And essentially
that was yeah, because I was like, it's an EE book,
it needs to look nice. But other than that, like
there's no marginal cost. So if two people bought it,
it's cost me the same to produce as like one.
So like every extra thing you sell is just cash.
(15:41):
And so yeah, it was like I never needed. And
then also I went on to university. Like I've never
been full time. There was never a moment where I
had to be like full time in the business before
they'd actually you know, I then had three years of
university to really like work it out.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
Yeah that's crazy. And you went and studied music, yeah,
which I think a lot of people may not know maybe,
And what was was it? I was like I was
doing some digging on the Wikipedia. I was like, this
is sualism today. I hope you did the nice donation
link to Wikipedia. Yeah. I always do. I always. They're
always like we're begging you. Yeah, she will like like
(16:20):
donate true cents. I'm like, oh, be rute not to
I always do it. But what do you think about
studying music and like the arts helped you with business? Oh,
I don't know if that much. I think that the
main Okay, main things I think I really learned from
the like music background.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
Worth saying as well, that my degree was specific. It
was all lessa based, so it wasn't actually like performance.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
I imagine you having to sing like for your own nerves. Okay,
and that's a name, but no it was. It was
so it was like the areas I specialized in were
like politics and philosophy of music, so music so like
(17:07):
during censorship eras or whatever. I anyway, so I think
that the two main things that it taught.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
Me were one, it was a very because of the
university I went to, it was a very high workload course.
So essentially it was I had like ten thousand words
a week for three years, and then none of that counted. Well,
it counted in that if you didn't do it, you
were getting kicked out, but it didn't count towards your
grade until the last month. Yeah, and you were consistently examined,
(17:38):
but not for but for like your place rather than
not even exactly. And so then it's all like culminates
in this big horror. And then the other thing I
think that music and that musical background I guess really
taught me was like I think you face so much
rejection doing music and the arts generally, there will always
(18:01):
be people who are far better than you, like always,
and you have to work so hard and put in
so many extra hours and it's not very well. It
definitely wasn't where I was like considered like cool or
prestigious or reputable or like whatever it might be. And
you did that at the same time, and I had
to spend so many hours outside of school and university
like doing the extra and then you were just constantly
(18:22):
shut down, shut down, like the entire time. So it
teaches you to have a very good relationship with rejection
because literally just constantly like I don't remember, like this
is norm due to be a soul story, but like
as in like I don't remember a single time when like,
well there are probably like two three times total where
I went for something and actually got it and it was,
(18:44):
you know, the thing I'd really worked for most of
the rest of the time, Like you do a fuck
load and my lad sweat, Yeah, well, thank.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
You very much. Exactly.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
I'm really good at those like essentially where you do
a fuckload of work and then you don't get anything
for it, and in fact you're kind of shut down
and they're like, you know, the rest of your life,
they're not going to be like, oh, you're really bad
at this, but like you're kind of being consistently told
like other people are better than you. And I think
because I did that from so early, Like I worked
(19:13):
like a theedral from when I was eight, which essentially
was like like twenty or so hours on top of
schoolwork every week of music, and then like from that
point onwards, it's like it's actually just like a I
think the main thing it taught me is just like
a crash course in being happy with rejection or just
like being okay and being able to work really really
(19:33):
hard and then get just be shut down over and
over and.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
Yeah, which is huge in business and huge in entertainment one.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
Hundred percent, and just like I think, a very good
life skill, like you have a we see all of that,
you know, TikTok stuff for example on like rejection exposure therapy,
and I I think actually I saw it a lot,
like I wait, you come across people who maybe haven't
had as much rejection, and therefore the rejection they do
have really really shut them down. It's totally natural reaction
(20:01):
but actually if you're consistently like even now, there have
been so many things that I mean, you know, obviously
it wouldn't be public, but like so many things that
I've interviewed for or tried out for, like whatever it
might be that I would really want, and it's like
if it just comes through and it's a rejection, it's.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
Like cool, yeah, yeah, next, yeah, exactly. I've been doing
this recently where I've been like emailing, emailing guess that
I really want and they are ridiculous. Guess ridiculous. Otherwise
the answer is no, yeah, let's go exactly, you don't
take And I will say the other week, I was
like smobiles assistant said no, and she actually emailed me back,
(20:44):
and I was like that's a win. Yeah, it was
like an email back was a win. And I genuinely
was like throughout all this rejection, like the fact that
I've gotten through in somebody's evening. Maybe my favorite is
when they come back with something that like it's actually
unnecessary color on top of the rejection, it's like, oh, yeah,
we really don't like this type of thing. We don't.
They're like, oh, okay, but we're not prioritizing this kind
(21:04):
of exposure and not well, actually, we just don't like
you at all. She's actually got really not certain baths,
but like she actually really terrible experience. Yeah exactly, and yeah,
but it was really nic They sent me this lovely man.
I was like, that is the biggest win. A direct
no was the biggest win. And I was like the
hundred set of my character.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
And I think that, like for anyone who maybe knows
that that is an area that they haven't got enough
exposure to, like purposefully putting yourself in that track, I
think is one of the best things you can do
because until you're used to rejection, you're going to continuously,
continuously be scared of it and also probably have an
underlying fear of even going for things where you think
you might be rejected. Whereas like we know that like
(21:46):
the surface area of luck thing, for example, is all
around like putting yourself in positions where you could get lucky,
like not that way but what you've got, but like
essentially where like we've said it, like you miss one
hundred percent of the shots you don't take, So if
you're not putting yourself in those environments, you don't know
whether Yeah, they wanted these someone with these ten qualifications
(22:09):
and you only have three. But actually they decided you
were better at these other things. And like, you never
would have known if you hadn't put yourself there. And
if you're scared of rejection, that's going to be very hard.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
Yeah, it's a huge thing to learn speaking of something
that wasn't a rejection maybe, but I think was a
great success. When did you get the idea for Tala
and where did the name come from? Oh?
Speaker 2 (22:33):
Yeah, I can tell you. It was a very boring Sorry, sorry,
I'll try.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
It was roll it out, let's go.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
So yeah, I started Tyler in my final year at university.
Actually before that, like the month before that month I
told you about where everything counts towards your degree.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
So that was really smart. Wag did you do that well?
Speaker 2 (22:50):
Because I was meant to exactly I love it except breaking. No,
it was meant to essentially launch a good while before then.
It just kept getting pushed for a number of tif
reasons like manufacturing delays, a number of these different things,
and then I was just like, we just have to
get it out because I'm paying people and we just
we need to launch basically, and it just happened to
fall at the worst possible time. But rewinding back, I
(23:11):
got the idea for the business about a year before.
I guess like I was very much like within the space,
like I was wearing a lot of active where I was,
I was a student and I went to the gym,
so like, obviously I was wearing active most of the time,
and I had really strong opinions on like how things
fit and how things felt. And I felt like a
lot of I felt like a lot of designs within
(23:35):
the industry were either like super revealing, which actually I
don't find that flattering on me. We do, you know, gorgeous,
like strappy bras and like all of that, and they
look amazing, but I think that, like I, it felt
like it either needed to be teeny tiny or it
needed to be kind of frumpy, and I wasn't. I
was like, actually, that's not where I like to kind
of sit in terms of the designs I go for.
(23:57):
But also one of the main things was that I'd
moved away from fast fashion consumption in my day to
day life, so I just wasn't. I wasn't, Like, I
don't know, I used to terrible, but I used to
like have contracts with like PLT and a number of
different fast fashion houses and all of that. Like with
my with fast fashion houses was really like blowing them
up in the Alvy Mate like direction.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
But yeah, and they ran exactly but I had essentially
had contracts with them, and that was a big part
of my job.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
And I literally stopped that overnight, Like I canceled all
my contracts. I lost like seventy five percent of my
income because I was just like, this is not something
I want to stand by. I really don't like it.
I feel shit every time I post about it. Yeah,
and then I kind of moved away from it in
my day to day like actual consumption, and I just
realized that active where was like a glaringly big gap
in that way because you don't because you think of
(24:50):
it as like a necessity for the thing you're doing,
you kind of look less at it, being like a
cherry on top, and therefore you're like, oh, I'm not
really thinking about the material or who's made it or
any of that. And so I had kind of realized
that I'd moved away from that in my day to
day but not necessarily my active wear. And then the
biggest solutions that I was finding from my day to day,
(25:11):
which were things like rental and pre owned and like
amazing ethical brands.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
All of this were either not really.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
Available in active wear for reasons like pre owned and
rental people aren't as keen on for active Well, yeah
they do exist, but like, yeah, you know stuff probably
well you probably had like that's the thing, Like there
are solutions for it, but it's probably not going to
reach a mass market change level.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
No.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
And then also with the ethical brands, there were some
brands that had done some really amazing things, but again
they were like they were probably about fifty percent more
price wise, and so I wanted to look into creating
an option that was granted, like not about being small
and artisanal. It was kind of can we do better
(25:56):
at scale? So like, can we have some baseline assumptions
in terms of like what we are and aren't going
to do in terms of fabrics, in terms of factories,
in terms of dyeing processes, in terms of sampling, in
terms of packaging, in terms of all of these different things,
because I think people think of you know, those types
of things in terms of just materials, whereas it's actually
(26:16):
so much more behind the scenes, like zero percent to
landfill pledges, not restocking during sales and therefore just you know,
trying to sell loads and loads of stuff at sale
prece like all of that, and so we kind of
I wanted to create an active where brand that ticked
those boxes and also was like you wouldn't see a
difference in terms of like fit. Yeah, and it wasn't
(26:37):
fifty percent more expensive. So it took a long time
because that's quite hard. And I think that you know,
there are a lot of our ideals around what you
would want from lots of brands you shop from. I
think realistically a lot of the time they haven't been
done for a reason because it's like not maintainable. But
we yeah, I kind of got to starting that about
(26:57):
a year before it ended up launching, and then launched that,
as I said, in May of twenty nineteen, and now
now seven years later, crazy and she's thriving.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
She is driving. I was there the other day. Oh yeah,
when you're in Australia. I sent you a message. Oh yeah, yeah,
it was like checking up on your first baby. Well
thenk you they was either us talk members are really nice,
everyone's love. Yeah, she was I'm going to give her
a shout out. She had read hair. That's what I remember.
Was it at the Carnaby Street store or the Westfield one,
the one in Carnoby Street. She was delight there you go.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
Everyone's amazing. Yeah, I think so again. I mean, like
it obviously separate, but like we with the store expansion,
for example, it was like, how do we create an
in person environment that reflects are online and kind of
like who we are in HQ and all of that
like really feels in that way. Rather than just being like, yeah,
we'll just hire these people in as quickly as possible.
(27:53):
It was like, no, it's like we're like a you know, we're.
Speaker 1 (27:55):
Like a Girl's Girl brand. We're like her. We know
how we want you to feel in the clothes, we
know how we want you to feel in the shop,
so like we've got to represent that in the physical space.
The other thing I liked about the Tower store and
then one move on to a whole podcast on this,
I really liked that, like you guys had all the
sizes out mm hmm. I was like, oh, thank god. Yeah,
(28:17):
because I'm a big conscious decision Oh great, I was like,
this is amazing. Because I hate when you go to
a store it's like, so do you have what's the
biggest size you have? Yeah? Can you get it for me?
And it's like it just kind of always sucks. Yeah,
they I don't know. It's not a good feeling.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
Yeah, of course, And like you know, there've been lots
of I would say, like learning cubs because again it's
like you're you go from running like what's an online
store where everything is in one warehouse, it is getting
shipped out from one place, and so everything's in one
place to even like everything new you launch, needing it
to get to one store, but you also need like
(28:52):
the exact right size ratio you don't know who's going
to come in that day, and like knowing that you
need like you can estimate it, but like how many
of those pieces do you actually need in the store
across how many sizes, different colors, like all of this
like it's you know, I'm sure we won't have got
it right for everyone, but it's a it's been a
massive like learning curve, and I'm very proud of like
the reviews and kind of love we get from how
(29:13):
people feel.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
Let's take it down. Let's take a turn for the worst. Yeah,
it's no more compliments, no more good stuff you're doing
for the environment, women's stuff. Confidence. What's been the biggest
like oh fuck moment of running a business? Oh, there
have been so many. They are every day, they are relentless. No,
I think, I mean, I actually do think that, like
(29:36):
that is one of the most defining parts of having
a business, is like you are constantly just like on
the floor.
Speaker 2 (29:42):
She just like why like more and more of this,
Like my propensity to deal with stress now I think
is so high actually for the bad reason of the
fact that like shit is thrown at me every single day,
like big, big stuff, you know. And I think that's
just part of having a business. And then you adding
more businesses, it's kind of like just increases the cadence
(30:03):
of these types of things coming up. There are many
different ones, Like there have been big o fuck ones,
Like in like twenty twenty twenty twenty one, tla Very
nearly went bye bye, and that was like a good
year long battle like to and within that, like I
(30:24):
can't remember how long it would have been, but it
would have been like around two months of like working
out whether we're going to make payroll every single week
and being like.
Speaker 1 (30:32):
Right, that would be the most stressful part I can oh, yeah,
like it's okay if I go bankrupt. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
Well I had times when I was literally like I
would pay salaries out of like my Monzo account, like
as in like you know, I had like one payroll
that we weren't going to make and I was like
fuck And I sold my car the next day to
like someone I found online, which was literally like a
what was it? It was like a they'd come to
your house and they'd just buy a car a few
and it was like I don't even know if this
is but it was like, as so long as I
(30:59):
just want to make account before they leave, I was like, sounds.
Speaker 1 (31:02):
Sounds like my solution for the week.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
So yeah, there have been like big like big, terrible
like prolonged, very life ruining at the time kind of
things to go through, and then there were the small
ones every day like there's you know, the other day
we had our like we did like a hotel tala.
(31:26):
It was kind of like it.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
I saw it was so beautiful, thank you. It was gorgeous,
thank you.
Speaker 2 (31:30):
It was essentially like a campaign that we did, like
what Tala would be like as a hotel and then
hosted some people there. And you know, even on the
first day of that, like we sent two of our
team members early to set everything up with like all
of the stock and the decorations and like the cute
little touches and everything, and five out of ten suitcases
(31:51):
got lost and ended up like floating around Europe. And
like the whole reason you send people early is that
they can like set things up.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
It's just a little bit of chale.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
Yeah, yeah, so you know, that type of stuff happens
all the time. Same with I went out to New
York Fashion Week. We were doing a New York Fashion
Week activation and I was there for forty eight hours
before I had to go somewhere else and I literally
landed and my one suitcase that I had with me
was lost and they were like, we can get it
back to you in forty eight hours, and I was like, perfect,
We've got our New York Fashion Week thing tomorrow, so
(32:25):
it should be sooner.
Speaker 1 (32:26):
Yeah, have we considered teleporting? Yeah? Did they pay for that?
Speaker 2 (32:32):
They don't think I ended up getting any compensation.
Speaker 1 (32:34):
Oh, this is my this is a random hill I die.
But Airline compensation. I found a business on it though.
Oh yeah, I will always get a compensation from airlines. Really,
Oh I.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
See, I'm good at a stunny worded email around something
like that.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
Oh no, I have beef with probably every airline. I'm
not going to go into them, but one, and they
spannsored the podcast and I love that's the only reason.
Oh my god. Really yeah, literally, I had anything Actually
i'll tell this story but I won't name names, but
an airline who I had like the most despicable experience
with with my dad randomly was like, we really wanted
to one to the podcast and I was like no,
(33:08):
and my team was like, was like, you really should do.
I was like, I would never, I would never sell
my soul because I yeah anyways. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
Also, then when I flew to my next place, they
literally I was like, don't fly out to New York.
Keep it in London. I'll just get it when I'm
back in London because I only need it for the
next forty hours. And then literally as I flew off
to the next place, it flew from London to New York.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
I was like, Okay, I know, and it's so hard
because it's like I also will say, I'm like every
single person who works for an airline, I'm like, I
love you. Oh yeah, I'm like you guys do that
probably a very hard job of like the only time
people want to talk to you is when they're really mad.
So it's always being but it's stuff like that where
it's like the coordination, where it's like their policies and
it's like this policy just fuck need to We'll move
(33:53):
on from airline politics. That was my favorite favorite publical question. Yeah,
we can go on for ages. That's to be out
part two episodes. Come back for the part two. You
have such a natural talent for business. Have you ever
been like, I'm done with that and what do you
(34:14):
think you do instead? Oh?
Speaker 2 (34:16):
So, I'd say there have definitely been times where I've
considered walking away, not recently and not since I've kind
of got my life balance a little bit more on
track and therefore like moved away from burnout, and you know,
there are still little bits and times where I'm like,
for fuck's sake, but I do genuinely, absolutely love what
I do, and I feel very privileged to be able
(34:36):
to do what I do. And also I've built my career.
I've like kind of reverse engineered my career towards exactly
what I want it to be. Like I kind of
fell into being an influencer at the one point and
then was like, this is I do not like again
massive privilege. But it's like I do not like the
day to day of this. I do not like needing
to be liked in order for my career to be
(34:57):
work like doing well. I do not like into my
personal life for my career to be doing well all
of these things. And so literally built myself an office
job in the businesses and like, so I do think
that I've like my job is made for me, like
it's very tailored to me, which I feel very lucky
for for about because.
Speaker 1 (35:20):
There is luck involved. There'd be luck baby be lucky
baby lucky. Yes, sometimes yes, But I think that the
you know, it absolutely takes it.
Speaker 2 (35:31):
It's tall, and I think that there have you know,
there have honestly been so many times where I'm like
what why have I like, why why did I need
to make it so hard for myself? Just because like
there's not really a reason to take it this far?
Like why four businesses? Why not one business? You know,
why like, why do you need to do this? But
I think realistically, as I've said, it's all built for me,
(35:55):
and it's all been built around me, Like I've built
it that way, and I feel very fortunate too, Like
I think one of the biggest privileges in life is
being able to do work that you love and that
you genuinely love, because like everyone needs to work, or
most people need to work to be able to actually
enjoy it and feel like you are day to day
(36:17):
able to use your brain and kind of engage in
the way you want to and be able to make
money from it.
Speaker 1 (36:25):
Like I feel like that's very very lucky. Such a
good reminder as well.
Speaker 2 (36:30):
Yeah, and so yes and no, you probably find me
some days where I'm like, yeah, absolutely, I need.
Speaker 1 (36:36):
To get out of it to the choir I got,
Yeah exactly. I like something that you mentioned before, which is,
you know, you've you've spent your entire adult life online
at this point, how do you keep parts of you
just for you? You've obviously made a conscious decision about
that in many ways.
Speaker 2 (36:55):
Yeah, So, as I kind of alluded to, then I
made a DECI is at one point to basically decide.
I was like I'm not going to be an influencer,
which you could absolutely still put me in that box.
Speaker 1 (37:04):
Now I probably wouldn't there, to be honest, thank you.
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (37:09):
I think that like the as a tangent, like the
negative correlate. The negative kind of connotations of influencer is
very much directly correlated to the fact that it is
one of the only industries where women out perform, oh yeah,
and make more money than.
Speaker 1 (37:26):
Men and is a bad term. But if it's not
what your job title is, yeah, no, no, of course.
Speaker 2 (37:32):
But I think that, like I try and get comfortable
with the fact that, like, technically it is what I'm
doing in you know, certain areas, and like, probably the
only reason we have these negative connotations around it is
because women outperform in that area and therefore naturally it's easy.
Speaker 1 (37:47):
Yeah, it must be so easy, and it must be.
Speaker 2 (37:49):
Vapid, and it must be all of these different things.
Any Way, I.
Speaker 1 (37:54):
Kind of decided that.
Speaker 2 (37:56):
That wasn't for me in that I didn't enjoy the
day to day, as I said, so I built myself,
you know, I deleted all my videos off YouTube overnight
and kind of that was where my main earnings were
and I stopped really posting properly online for like two
three years and concentrate on building businesses. I was like,
I want to build these into like what can actually
(38:18):
sustain me, and the team is a job, so double
down on that. And I think that, you know, that
has enabled me to be in the fortunate position where
I don't need to share anything that I don't want
to share in order to make income.
Speaker 1 (38:35):
And so I feel like I'm in a nice position
now where I can share what i'd like to share
and what I find would be helpful to share and
feel happy doing so. And I feel much more happy
doing so knowing that there is not no obligation, and
so I think that actually has I don't know, probably
(38:56):
in a weird way recently, like some people over the
past few years have been like, oh, I think you're
sharing more, and I was like, yeah, no, I probably am,
because I don't feel like backed against a wall in
a way of like, oh God, I've got to give
you this vulnerability so that you actually like me, like
it's an exchange, and I don't want that, like I
don't want to need to give you all of the
five bad things that are happening in my life for
you to give me basic human respect, and so I
(39:19):
think that I'm, I guess, in a happy place around
that now it's organic. With that in mind, there has
been things that you have shared online that are very,
very personal and it's obviously come from an organic place
for you to share it, including a mischaracter you had
last year. Did you think about not sharing that? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (39:39):
Absolutely, And I didn't share it for a good while
after it happened, in not a good while, like a
few months, wow. And I think that I was driven
by a few reasons for sharing it. I think that
like one part of it was like, definitely, and I
wouldn't stand by this is a good reason sharing, but
(40:01):
I definitely like it was meant to be a really
intense work month and I still worked a lot. But
I think that like I just hadn't been myself and
hadn't like done things to the best of my ability
that month, and so I kind of felt like I
was like, oh, by the way, guys, this is why
I've been so shit. But that wasn't the main reason
for sharing. The main reason was more the fact that
(40:23):
I found it so insane, how there was so much
taboo around it. And how it was automatically like you're pregnant, yay,
oh you miscarried, all, let's not talk about that like
that is the blame is on the woman, the kind
of I don't know, the onus for everything was on
the woman. The taboo is on them. They mostly can't
(40:43):
tell their workplace because there's still loads of associations around it,
and they don't know if they're actually going to get
the support and if that's just going to make them
feel even shitter, and you know, whether it's something that
they even want to say, because then their employer knows
they're trying for a baby, like all of these different things.
And I kind of just wanted to talk about it
because it was actually so fucking hard to go through
(41:03):
that I just was like, I can't believe that this
in any way is made to be like made out
to be not necessarily like my fault, but kind of
like we shouldn't talk about it because it might embarrass
other people or it might make people feel awkward. And
I even had that from like some people quite close
(41:25):
to me, when I was like, never even like saying
the word or acknowledging the thing or even like asking
how I was like it was very you know, and
I just thought, God, that's crazy, Like people for years
and years decades haven't said anything about it ever because
it's just a taboo subject. And I just thought, I
(41:46):
don't like taboo subjects that are taboo and create shame
for the woman when there's no reason for it.
Speaker 1 (41:54):
And it's like this final frontier of grief almost that
we are yet to really have any good language for
speaking about, Like we don't have great language for talking
about grief in other areas or mental health in other
areas or anything. But for this one, it does feel like, really,
you don't see anybody talk about it. Yeah, and that
must have been really scary for you to step into
(42:15):
and be like, if I don't see anybody talking about it,
how are people going to react? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (42:20):
No, absolutely, And I think that I do believe that
when you have a platform, you do actually have some
sort of responsibility to, well, you have more propensity to
make the world a place that the place that you
would want it to be, so you have a sort
of responsibility to Okay, well, no, you don't need to
share things that you don't want to share.
Speaker 1 (42:40):
Like that.
Speaker 2 (42:41):
I don't think is owed to the general public. But
I do think that if you can do something to
make the world a place that's more reflective of the
place that you'd want it to be, than like why not.
And so yeah, it was a decision at the time
because I wanted to. I wanted it to be something
where you can say that without like I felt like
(43:03):
I couldn't even say it without like ruining someone else's day.
And I was just like, I get that, But at
the same time, like, if I need to disclose this
to you for some reason, I need to not go
into overdrive of like, oh, I'm so sorry, but it's
also fine. It's fine, you know, like you don't get
you know, it's okay, and it's like it's really difficult.
Speaker 1 (43:21):
And every time you swallow it, it's like, I'm so
worried about burdening this person one time, and it's like
and I burden myself every day, Yeah, every single day.
Were you worried about a particular kind of reaction? Was
the one that scared you the most that people might
have I think.
Speaker 2 (43:33):
Quite because it was so fresh in terms of like emotions,
and I think, you know, it will be for a
long time. I think I'm always worried about like the
Internet having like fuel with which to you know, throw
it you when is desired. So like, for example, I
did a post a few weeks later that was like
(43:53):
talking about the risk of reform coming into power in
the UK and the different impacts that would have on
essentially society in like various different ways, and one of
someone commented on that being like you should be concentrating
more on keeping your babies alive than.
Speaker 1 (44:14):
Talking about this. I'm just laughing about. Obviously it's a
lot of horror comment, but it's also so outrageous that
I was like, like I literally saw it while having
backfast with my husband, and I literally like choked, Like
I was like, oh my god, you're not going to
believe this. And I was just like that, to be
fair as you can tell, like that type of thing
doesn't really affect me, because you've got to be so
fucked up for that to actually look it anywhere out
(44:37):
of your keyboard, like for you to be brain email brain,
like unless that's a violent, intrusive thought that you literally
cannot keep under control. Like the fact that you've now
put that onto paper and like got that out is
just I have to feel so sorry for you because
you must be so miserable. And I know people say
that it's like they must be miserable, they must be miserable.
Speaker 2 (44:58):
It's like I don't believe that all online commentary must
be from people who are miserable. But it's literally like wow,
like wow, you must be so hurt inside about like
I don't know who didn't listen.
Speaker 1 (45:09):
To you when, but like wow, I almost see that
as like soo like sociopathy. Oh yeah, I genuinely want
this person. I want to put them in a little
cage and I'm just like, what's wrong with you? Yeah?
Literally to have a look around like that's that's a
good I actually very few things like me speechless. Oh
that was. I was like, what was your husband's reaction?
(45:31):
Because yours was like, oh my god?
Speaker 2 (45:32):
Was he just like he was quite angry about it,
and he was like how I think. I mean he'd
obviously gone through it as well. I think he'd you know,
seen me going through that, and then was like fucking hell,
like that is terrible. But I thought it was so
bad that I actually found it hilarious, like as in
like I send it to some of my friends and I.
Speaker 1 (45:51):
Was like, oh my god, and my.
Speaker 2 (45:53):
Friends are sending me paragraphs back like this person is
like probably, and I was like, guys, I'm laughing, like
I'm literally laughing because you go that it's a horseshoe,
like come like so derayed. That is just back to money. Actually,
like you you have more problems than I have. If
you are sending the anonymous account. Probably yeah, probably like
(46:14):
Psalms thirteen in the literally love that neighbor. Sorry not
to laugh at the end of what was a heavy conversation.
Sorry innes sing song voice.
Speaker 1 (46:27):
Shit again the thing you're going to be thinking about.
I know I'm going to go home and be like,
dang it. Sorry not to not to make you feel
but I just think that comments crazy. And you're expecting
again now, and I get so many questions about becoming
(46:48):
a mother in your twenties. I haven't had that experience yet,
and I don't actually get to talk to many people
who had. So what is surprising you most about that
whole chapter in your life, from finding out you were
pregnant for the first time to now carrying your second child.
Speaker 2 (47:01):
I think what's been surprising me most generally is like,
how outrageous and varied and intense. All the different symptoms
of pregnancy are that are our one hundred percent kept
under wraps for a reason. And I would have one
hundred percent still decided that I wanted a baby and
that I wanted to be pregnant, But at the same time,
like the fine print is not clear, and I think
(47:23):
we like again, it's like our sex education for women
is so terrible.
Speaker 1 (47:28):
Sorry, I'm not crying. It's reflex the role. I want
more sex. Like this sex education for women and actually
probably more for girls is like so so terrible and
so fixated on like don't have sex, don't get pregnant.
Like okay, well what about when we're talking about like
(47:49):
if you choose to get pregnant or you find yourself
in a situation where you are pregnant, Like what's actually happening?
What are all the different symptoms? Like there are some
fucked symptoms that are absolutely kept from you. Like what
the I think it's the average woman ends up with
three point one decayed teeth after pregnancy because the baby
just takes all the nutrients from all your calcium, like
(48:10):
everything from you. There's like all sorts like your absoplit
in half sometimes they'll have to be surgically put back together.
But like all of the I honestly think I'm antipr
for pregnancy, and I don't mean to be that way
because I do think that like, if you would like
to be pregnant, then hopefully you're able to get pregnant.
I also do just think that it is presented to
(48:31):
women as a a necessity, be a kind of well,
this is just the way it is. And mark my words,
if the symptoms were on the other gendered foot, there
would be better research, there would be better medication, there
would be better management, all of these different things. There
would probably be paid pregnancy leave, like all of these
(48:53):
different things. I just think it's not being made clear.
And I think that anyone who wants to have a
child would still decide to do so. It's just that
there is not a lot of well spread educational information.
So I'd say say that's the biggest shocking case. It's
not clear. By my general demeanor. It's like people will
(49:14):
climb the mountain, but they should know what's on the
mountains well exactly, they still to do it, like I
still would have done it, but at the same time,
like you don't need to be lying to me about
like all the things I'm going to go through, and
of course that is to somewhat our responsibility to find out,
but at the same time, like it's a major medical
event that's essentially considered twelve. Yeah, you're a girlypop so yeah, sorry,
(49:37):
teeth anymore, Well the baby took them. Yeah, obviously. My
boyfriend went to the movies the other day and he
came back and he was like white faced. He was like,
do you know that women proove themselves when they give birth?
And I was like, yeah, he goes seventy five percent
of them do yeah, And I was like yeah, I know.
(49:58):
And he was like, they need to tell what people
about that, and I was like, that's why. That's the
lost of the problem. I was going to say. I know.
He went on a whole Google page and I was like,
and this is why that's important as well, because often
the burden is on you experiencing it as a mother,
women around you, hearing those feeling scared, never like men
just knowing the woman's experience. Well slightly tied to that,
(50:19):
I read an article I watched a tick shop.
Speaker 2 (50:23):
Right the other day, very very interesting and it was
essentially about the research gap between men and women when
it comes to parenting and why it creates default parenthood
and why it creates therefore, like essentially the uneven society
in which we operate, where women are expected to take
on a significant amount of unpaid labor in comparison to men,
particularly when it comes to things like parenting, but also
(50:43):
housework and all of this. And it was essentially just saying,
how like women, because pregnancy is happening to them, will
take on the burden of education around birth, around pregnancy,
around parenting, around like baby's health, all of these different things,
and then they take on that burden and that naturally
(51:03):
isn't replicated in the men because pregnancy isn't happening to them,
Like ideally they would see it as such if their
partner is pregnant, but it's actually not naturally the case,
even i'd expect in some progressive relationships. And therefore there
is this research gap, which means that when by the
time you have the baby, the woman spends a lot
(51:24):
of time educating the man and maybe correcting on certain
things like oh, you meant to support the head, or
you meant to do this, or like whatever it might be,
which results in the default parent becoming the mum despite
the fact that you both had a baby at the
same time, and this obviously naturally then goes around in
circles in terms of who does more parenting, childcare, like
all of these different things. And I think that's so
interesting again because it's like pregnancy is seen as a
(51:46):
women's issue and it's not advertised thoroughly at all regardless, So.
Speaker 1 (51:53):
What are we gonna do about it? What's so, what
are we gonna do about work? Grace is gonna make
some tiktoks? That's what are we gonna do about it?
It's gonna make everyone hear about it. I can't remember
what that meme was, but it was like being the
opposite of someone who suffers in silence, like you will
be forced or like you know, quiet interests or all
of that, like you will be forced to her about
what I'm interested in and what I'm reading about. Yeah,
I'm afraid I want men to make those tiktoks as well.
(52:15):
I feel like, yes, I just think that would be
just so valuable to you. Here's what I'm learning. I
know I want to like them. I like to repost them. Yeah,
she's fighting the good fact. Yeah, exactly. I have two
more questions for you about motherhood, and then one more question.
That's three, three more questions. I know, thank you. Another
(52:38):
thing on my on my resume. You're having a girl.
What are you most excited to do with her? I
don't know. I think like my biggest, like one of
my biggest life aims. And I think this maybe surprises
people because I think we do group particularly women into boxes.
You're like, you're a career woman, or you're like a
(52:59):
mumsy woman, or you're like this.
Speaker 2 (53:02):
But like my biggest like aim in life is to
have a close knit, loving family, Like that is just
like my driving force, and I feel very excited about
the opportunity of building that with my husband and building
it to be exactly what we have hoped. And I
(53:23):
have no doubt that it's going to be very you know,
there are going to be many things that don't go
to plan. But at the same time, like I just
can't wait, Like I can't wait to for my life
to get a bit smaller for a while, Like I
really I think I've concentrated for a very long time
on not making my life as big as possible, because
that's not been the driving force, but like reaching everything
(53:47):
I want to reach in life and like kind of
really working so hard to get there, and of course
I'll continue to do so. Like I feel very strongly
about being very open about the fact that I will
be going back to work looking full time.
Speaker 1 (54:01):
And I think that it's insane that anyone who would
know me or see what I've done be surprised at
the fact that I will have child's care or the
fact that I will you know, be working, or any
of these things. But I just think that, like I
really can't wait for the concentration just to be a
bit little bit simpler, and like I just know, like
(54:21):
all I care about generally is as much as you
know I care about work and all of this, Like
that's kind of one side. The main things I care
about are like relationships and the people around me, and
I just can't wait to build our little, oh little family.
I actually saw this quote from Steve Crah I think
(54:41):
You'll love, which is he was talking about how when
he had a kid, he was like everything in my
professional life got easier because speaking of failure is like
I didn't care if they didn't like me or if
I failed because I had I had all this well
plain too. Oh my god, I'm so excited for you.
I want to feel the episode with this question, which is,
what is one piece of advice you have for people
(55:03):
in their twenties that we haven't spoken about today? So much?
There's so much I want to say. Can I split
them up? You can do as many as you want.
I feel like you are for an hour. So were
you going to start that two now? Okay?
Speaker 2 (55:21):
Career wise, yeah, I think that there's a lot of
focus right now on getting as far as you can
in your twenties and being as big as you can
in whatever sense that might be. So, for example, if
it is impressive in your industry to be freelanced rather
than to be within a company, there's such a rush
to get there. There's such a rush to like get
(55:43):
those accolades or establish those things that make you be
taken more seriously. I honestly could not recommend enough, and
I wish I'd done more of this. Learning as much
as you can on employers' money, like upskilling, trying new jobs,
work in different types of teams, talking to as many
people as possible about their jobs, like your career is
(56:08):
much longer than it's made out to be on TikTok.
And that's not me kind of patronizing and saying like you,
but like that is a lot of the media we're
consuming and we're seeing, you know, success looks like this
at thirty. Your career is going to be a hell
of a lot longer than thirty. And if you want
to enjoy it and to have longevity and all of that,
(56:28):
the more you can do to truly learn as much
as possible and to put yourself in Like what about
imagining an amazing life at forty fifty sixty That might
not be about working all the time, But how are
you going to get there? Is it going to be
jumping ship at twenty three when actually you don't know
enough to do that. No, I believe so strongly that
we're it's very glamorized online to sell a certain dream
(56:51):
around a certain type of career, and actually the best
careers are built over time, based on accumulating expertise and contacts,
a network overall, and skills and passions, and so focus
on that rather than like a big shiny title or
a big move to freelance rather than employed or whatever
(57:15):
it might be for your industry. I think that's very
important career side, and I think that's often missed. Then
on the other side general life, I just think, like,
don't let anyone make you feel like you're behind again.
We have such a focus on like thirty hunder thirty,
you know your life ending, then like all of this,
I'm so fucking excited to turn thirty, Like there's so
(57:38):
much I'm looking forward to that I just got like,
I think this twenties is like a hot pot of
kind of just being thrown in there and being like
a chieve it's much as possible and like.
Speaker 1 (57:44):
Find out who you are and like make some friends
in that fallen out and get marine and have.
Speaker 2 (57:49):
A ami and like all of these different things, and
it's just like again, life is long, hopefully, and like
you're just at the beginning of it. Like, don't let
other people's need to rush make you rush. Because I
think as well that we have like this warped perception
of time. And if you're aiming to do xyzz by thirty,
(58:10):
then okay, you get to thirty and then what like
what happens? Then don't give yourself that like Olympic gold
medal syndrome where you're working towards all these things, or
you're like just staying in a relationship because you don't
want to be single at thirty, and then you get
to thirty. Okay, now what you're pushing for another year
and another year and another year and another year. You're
only at thirty four, so like as in like start
(58:31):
thinking long term and start thinking about like what you
actually enjoy and what you want your life to look
like rather than what you want other people to perceive
it as.
Speaker 1 (58:41):
Oh I love that advice. Thank you, especially as somebody
whose career is dead at thirty. Psychology of your twenty
Oh my god, what you to do? I know, I
really screwed the proach on that one. Thank you so
much for such a wonderful, wonderful advice and such wonderful Canada.
You're genuinely just a delightful person to talk to. Thank
you so much. That's very kind. How are you? Thanks girl?
(59:01):
I honestly think that, like when people have a certain
I'm going to give you one more compliment. Are there ready? Yeah? Yeah?
Then you can then get out. Yeah. I really do
think that, Like you see somebody online and you're like, oh,
they seem really nice, and there's always I don't have
this feeling, but like there's always the thing of like
I wonder if they're like that in real life, And
it's like you are somebody I can say for people listening,
you're a fan of Grace, like one hundred percent like that,
(59:24):
if not better in person that you just have such
a You just exude such a brilliance. So I appreciate
you coming on the psychology of your twenties. Thank you
for having you and the baby, me and the baby,
the first baby on the podcast. What do you have
to say for yourself? Just acid refo. I'm going to
leave everything in the description Where to listen to working hard,
(59:47):
Where to buy a piece of Taler's workout gear. I
honestly swear by it. Your cinch single it tops, Oh ye,
so amazing. I have like three colors brown, black, blue,
if you want to by my wardrobe will and uh yeah,
everything else that we can find you at. As always, guys,
thank you for listening. If you've made it this far,
leave a little baby emoji in the Spotify comments down
(01:00:10):
below to wish Grase congratulations and good luck on her
on entering impending birth, and I know I didn't want
to be like impending birth. And otherwise. You can also
watch episodes like this on Netflix. You can follow us
on Instagram substack. It's all going to be down there,
But until next time, be safe, be kind, be gentle
to yourself. We will talk very very soon.
Host
Jemma Sbeghen
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