A Little Danger with Sebastian Stan & Colman Domingo

Topics covered include:

Sebastian’s early childhood in Romania, being a reformed introvert, obstacles as a good thing, past lives as Law & Order day players, a certain tenderness that runs thru Sing Sing, the risk and reward in playing real people, Colman being “knocked out by” A Different Man, motherly advice to “get some moisturizer,” living like a monk while filming, 9pm bedtimes, the pains of early 2000s pilot season, a shared stint at an NYC catering company, and dreams of DJ-ing.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Oh man, no, this is truly, I've been wanting to just like sit
down and just like this is like a overdue cup of coffee, I
think. For sure.
I mean, I think we've passed each other here and there.
I remember even I think or is itlast year or earlier this year
for sure. And and and yeah, it's nice.
Last year, every time we passed each other, it's off.

(00:21):
It's like we knew each other though, because we were both
like, look at each other. Like, hey.
I know, I think, I think it was at the night before at the.
Of of the Emmys of the Emmys. Yeah, where I was like hey, and
then I think you were like hey, but but then it looked like I I
felt like I knew you in a way, but.
But I knew YouTube, but I knew who you were.
But I was like, oh, I don't knowthis dude, but this dude is very

(00:43):
warm and genuine. And that's what I was just I
think I assumed it immediately. But also, I think it's because
as I start to do it a little, I didn't do a deep, deep dive, but
I did enough because I wanted toget to know you too.
I didn't want to come in like, oh, I've researched the hell out
of you. No, I know.
I thought about that. What I.
Should be, I thought, well, whatkind of podcast do I want to do?
Do I want to like come in with research and I've, you know,

(01:03):
found out your child, you know, childhood friends and all that
stuff? Or do I want to like discover in
the moment? Where are you from man?
Well, Romania originally. Wait, what?
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Romania.
I was. I was born there and then I left
when I was 8 and then I didn't really make it into the US till
I was 12. Wait a minute, so you speak
Romanian? Romanian.

(01:24):
Yeah, with an accent and, but yes.
But you have 00 accent. I do, yeah.
Well, now that I'm conscious of it, but but because when I came
here usually like before 12 is when you can still kids can
still sort of not have an accent.
It's after 1213 that it. Gets harder from like, you know,

(01:44):
East Orange or something. No, yeah, I mean mania Romania,
yeah. That's fantastic, man.
Yeah. What are the languages do you
speak? Well, Romanian, but then I, I
spoke German for a little bit. I I understand it only a little
bit because my mom was a pianistand then she was in Vienna for

(02:07):
four years after, before we camehere.
It's a complicated because I got, we got out right after the
revolution and stuff. And then, yeah.
So I lived with her there for a while for four years, but didn't
really get a hold of the language as much because I was
kind of learning English at the same time.
And then. And then she remarried to my
stepdad, who was an American andended up here.

(02:30):
Yeah. Are you the only actor in your
family? I am also the yeah and the only
child and and everything. Yeah, wow.
But and and where are you from? I'm from Philadelphia, OK, born
and raised in Philadelphia. You know, I'm one of four kids,
the only one who's a professional artist.

(02:52):
They all have artistic abilities.
Like my brother used to draw andpaint beautifully.
And my sister is a poet. My younger brother is a is a
musician. And so I think everyone's
creative. Yeah, everyone's creative.
But I think like comes from my mother who just sort of like
inspired us to be creative. She I think was like, you know,
she wasn't really, but I think she liked the idea of like her
kids like having these musical talents or.

(03:13):
Yeah. And and and do you remember, is
there a time like, is there yourearliest memory where you know
where, where, where you were like performing when you were a
kid or even like with your with with them or, or anything that
like the funny? Thing is, I would always say
that my older brother and older sister were much more
interesting and funny than I was.

(03:33):
I was just like the nerd. I had a sense of humor and I
think I like to play. But I honestly, up until I think
even after college, I think it surprised people that I would be
become an actor and do this for a living because I was very shy.
I was very shy. I didn't think it was cool.
So you'd say introverted? Very.

(03:54):
I still think of, I actually think of myself as an introvert.
OK, Yeah. But I've sort of I'm sort of
reformed because I know how to really, you know, make it how to
make it out in these streets. Yeah, exactly.
Right. You do you feel the same way?
No, 100% I'm definitely. That's why I feel like maybe
we're similar in the sense because I think I, I mean,
obviously looking at your work and, and, and you know, there's

(04:18):
a degree of sensitivity and reallike real sensitivity that I
feel I'm always seeing in, in your work.
So I, I immediately just, I feellike one, it takes one to no one
in the sense of sensitivity. So that's the only reason I was
like, Oh, you're probably you. I feel like you probably give a
lot of energy out and then also you need to recharge in a way,

(04:39):
which is a very how I am. And I, and that's a very
introverted thing, but then we're, you know, we have to
learn how to be extroverts because of this business as
well. We have to be out there.
But I think you have you always been, you know, first of all,
you're from Romania and being anonly child, were you an
observer, just someone who just observed more than.

(05:00):
Yeah, as you were introverted? Because I feel like I was an
observer as well. I I had a speech impediment when
I was a kid that also catered toit.
And I just felt like I, I just didn't want to get picked on or
bullied. So I just watched.
You know, I, I, yeah. And I think for me it was just
honestly coming here and not really speaking the language
right away. I was always I definitely.
And, and my step down was the headmaster of my middle school,

(05:22):
like where I went to school. So like all the kids just did
not want to have. Any where was this school?
Where? Where was?
It Rockland County, New York, OKacross the GW Yeah, yeah.
Exactly, I just passed through that today because I'm staying
up to state right now. And it's pretty there, like it's
beautiful. It's nice to yeah, that was nice
to city. But but yeah, like, like you, I,
I, I was very insecure about like my accent or things like

(05:43):
that. So I I didn't.
I guess I watched more too, but maybe that was a good thing for
us. I actually realized that like
all the stuff I, this listen, now that I'm, I'm in my mid 50s,
so I feel like I can say things like this.
Well, I look back now and I lookat all these things that I was,
that I thought was like, not great for me, actually helped
build the person I am. I'm like, oh, no, because I, you

(06:03):
know, people were like, oh, did you always have a sense of
style? No, I wore my older brother and
older sister's hand me down clothes, but I think that
actually catered to me wanting to have my own style because I
didn't have it. So one second, you know, I got
my job at McDonald's when I was 16 years old.
I would, I would buy little things and, you know, try to
figure out who I was instead of just wearing something that was

(06:23):
handed down because that's all we could afford, you know.
So then I became very particularabout what I wear.
I think. So I look back now, I'm like,
oh, I think those were the seedsthat were, you know, planted,
you know? Yeah, I, I, no, I agree with
you. I mean, I'm always I, I, and
this is, maybe it's something you, you relate to in terms of
like when you, you and I were talking before about like, how

(06:44):
do we find work or what, what dowe gravitate towards or
something. But I, I, I guess one of the
lessons I took maybe from, from those experiences like you just
described in childhood was, was that, you know, difficulty is a,
is a good thing. You know, like, like sometimes
the, the obstacle is is a good thing.
You know, the, the, the fear of of can I do it or can I not do

(07:06):
it or. Or not fitting in.
Yeah, like, like. Perfect.
Can propel change and growth andyou know and and and so I think
sometimes I have a problem with like comfort altogether which
you. Know what I mean?
It's like it's really hard. I think I think you're right
because I feel like because a, when you get a little soft, I
feel like it doesn't cater to the work.
You need a little grit, I think.Yeah, and like you need a little

(07:29):
rough. Around the edges to get there.
Yeah, and, and, but sometimes maybe in your, you know, it's
like personal life, sometimes it's you want to find the peace
and comfort to obviously be ableto do that, I guess with your
work. But it's just that fine balance
between like kind of like, you know, getting too comfortable
and then too, too soft or, but also just not running from one

(07:52):
thing to the next to the next sothat you're never in the moment.
What were you talking about? You're talking about the journey
of like, how do this is, I guesspart of what I want to talk to
you about to like about how do we make art and what does it
come from for you? Like how do you how are you
drawn to the art that you're drawn to?
And you're saying just in terms of what I recently watched the

(08:12):
viewers a different man, what you just finished yesterday and
also The Apprentice. I don't think you can do that
work without having a little danger.
I think there's a little danger to your work and I think that's
what I'm attracted to because I feel like that's what I'm
attracted to. I feel like it feels a little
dangerous. If it feels like I'm going to

(08:35):
put a lot on here, you tell me if I'm right or wrong.
I feel like that you, these relationships that you build
with these directors and these film makers is really about
taking a leap of faith. That's how you can do Pam and
Tommy. That's how you can do, you know
what I mean? I don't feel like you're I, I
can't see you in like, maybe I'mwrong.
I can't see you in like, you know, 1/2 hour ABC.
Oh, I, I mean, we, you know, we probably like, like you, right?

(08:57):
We've done, you know, you know the.
Remember the the. We've done everything.
We've done law and orders. Yeah, like the rounds of going
around to pilot season and yeah,like the.
Yeah, I know. And that's why that's why I also
wanted to ask you like, I was like, I was curious how much
time you had spent in New York because when you were right
because. You, we, we overlapped a little

(09:17):
bit. Actually.
I was in New York from 2001 to what is that to whatever that
was. I was there for 16 years and I,
we were both, we both, we both worked with Lee F Schreiber.
Actually, I did my very first show with him, which was Henry
the 5th and Shakespeare in the Park.
Wow, wow. And that's, that's what I know.

(09:39):
Oh, we have somebody in common. We have in common.
And you did your first probably show.
With yeah, with yeah, talk radio, Yeah.
And, and Henry the Fifth was before that, right, Henry?
The fifth was three years beforethat.
Wow, OK, yeah, yeah. I mean, he's in, you know, he's
a great stage actor, but it was,but he was at the time I was
like, I don't know, 'cause you know, it was, I was like 2122

(10:01):
and it was, it was intense. You know, I felt, I felt like,
but I, but it was interesting watching him like his commitment
obviously in a way to, to everything.
But I was just, and I, I mean, granted, for me at least, I had
like that one cameo at the end of the near the end of the play.
But you, you were on with. Home.
I was. No, I was, I was the Duke of

(10:22):
Borbin. So the Duke of Borbin and Henry
the Fifth is not a huge role, but also understudied the guy
who did the Salic law speech. But also I'm like Liev and I, we
really hit it off because I think we really, I love, I love
his commitment to work. I feel like he was very much so
every single day He would. I learned a lot from that, to be
honest. And I and I, I'd moved from the

(10:43):
Bay Area where I'd been acting for years and the end stage.
But coming to New York, I felt like, OK, here are the folks who
are doing it in New York and Leaf sort of like helped me up
my game in a way when it comes to commitment because he as the
leader of our company, he was was really making sure that we
were all had the same brain trust.

(11:04):
He was like, hey, have you watched this documentary on
this? Hey, this.
He was like, it was, he wasn't satisfied.
Now actually, like, I think it could be intense for some other
people. I kind of like it.
I like the fact that like, oh, we're just really working
together, you know? Yeah, I mean, I felt the same
way as sort of with him. He he the second he saw that I
was, I was really just trying to, you know, rise up to the

(11:24):
occasion, so to speak. He, he really started playing
with me every night, you know, and, and and I felt he was
present and, and and maybe that was 11 important lesson I took,
which is like, look, I I should always surround myself with
people that are better than me. Yeah, Because you know, it's
like that the the Tarantino quote of like being in the race
and being like the last horse and you're always it's much

(11:46):
better than if you're chasing, then you're you know, when
you're in a in a group where you're always number one, you
know, you're not pushed, but butby the both both you guys have
really incredible voices. I.
Mean. Yeah, yeah.
But you've got a, you've got a real like a strong voice.
I would love to. I would love to see you on on
stage. Dude, you know what's funny?

(12:07):
I haven't been on stage in like 12 years now and I, and I keep
trying to figure out, I mean, I.Would you I mean?
I would, I feel like, you know, it's, it's time, it's time
commitment and what is, and whatis the right thing.
I think I'm, I'm very critical of, of theatre, extremely
critical because also, you know,being a theatre maker, you know,
I'm just, I'm still, I'm a playwright and a director.

(12:29):
I'm just very critical. So when I go in, I, I want to be
blown away. I want to be swept away every
single time. And I wanted to be thoughtful
and mindful and I wanted to blowmy mind and a lot, I think a lot
of it doesn't. And so I think I, you know, so I
think that's my, that's my own personal problem.
So when I do something, I'm like, I want to work with
someone and anything I've ever done, the things that I'm very

(12:50):
proud of on stage, Like I did a show called Passing Strange
years ago and another one calledThe Scottsboro Boys, which was
the final Candor Knapp collaboration.
Those were plays and musicals that were taking a leap of
faith. You know, they were dangerous.
You know, 1 is, is the frameworkof a deconstructed minstrel
show. And the other one is a a rock
musical where I played all thesedifferent characters, you know,

(13:13):
that were as a black man, I played a, a Dutch nudist.
I played a closet choir directorand, and, and a German
performance artist, you know, soI played all these white folks
as well. That's dangerous.
And so I feel like I need work that does that too.
Or I want to do a classic maybe?Well, so let me segue into this
because this is a good you just the way just said is really, I

(13:34):
think, important, you know, like, let's just think of what
you just said as it applies to Sing Sing, for instance, right,
which was such a incredible film.
I was telling you before, like Ihad watched it and and I was so
like moved by the idea of of that.
That movie has so many layers and certainly in terms of, you

(13:55):
know, what it says about the system, but also just like us as
men growing up and, you know, coming into in this world and,
and how we come in sort of like as a as a blank canvas, you
know, we just and, and seeing that, that image of you guys all
in costume and, and how the innocence of it, you know, mixed
in that in that world and that sort of isolation.

(14:16):
And yet and yet that no matter what you've done or what you've
gone through, we can all kind oflike it.
Everyone got back to that one innocent moment as a kid for me
and that and that and I found itmade me it like made me very
emotional watching it. But but I you get to do so many
things in that film. I feel like or we're with you in

(14:36):
in such a way and you were you were incredible.
But I in terms of like Shakespeare, in terms of, you
know, just your character experiencing.
But then coming in the acting piece of it like was that was,
was there a sense of kind of the, the, the danger that you
were talking about something that drew you to that project or

(14:57):
you, you saw it in there and youand you.
Yeah, because I think ultimatelywhat you're saying and thank you
for that. I think the thing that I found
that was probably the most dangerous thing when I was when
I found out more about the Rehabilitation of the Arts
program at Sings in Prison, is how dangerous it was to have all
these feelings, to exhibit tenderness, to go a little bit

(15:24):
underneath the hood and find outwhat makes you tick.
It's it's very dangerous to do that because of being very
vulnerable and this very dangerous environment.
And so for me that that was radical.
I thought that was radical love.And I thought, and you know, in
my conversations with these men,they wouldn't necessarily tell
me that that's what it was. But when they would tell me, I'm

(15:45):
like, oh, that's what you guys were doing.
You guys were really doing some soul work together and.
And and and and a lot of these men are were playing themselves.
Yeah, they were. They were playing versions of
themselves when they were on theinside.
And so we and I knew that's that's also a very dangerous
place. That's very these guys are
coming back in to portray parts of themselves that they have

(16:06):
left behind that they've done some work to leave behind.
And so I know that they were giving over something and I was
coming in in a vulnerable state,wanting to blend in with these
men and, you know, do a little bit of sleight of hand.
You know, I thought that we wereall.
And also, you know, it's people don't make films like that.
In a way, I feel like something about that feels like a

(16:28):
throwback. It feels like Cassavetes or
something. There's a cinema verite.
There was such a gritty rawness to the way he shot it.
And I actually, when I met Greg,the director, I kept asking him
about like so much of it felt sonatural and in the moment and
improvised to me that I couldn'treally tell.
And he and he had told me about some of the the auditions, which

(16:48):
were, you know, but like, incredible.
But even you and Clarence like together.
I mean, it's amazing because it has you feel, you feel the beast
in these men and then you feel the child.
And like, I just don't think we've seen, you know, it's like

(17:09):
it's almost educating your mind to take to take in an an, you
know, someone that's incarcerated and, and to see
them in that soft way in that environment, it's interesting.
It's never we've. Never seen we've never seen it
because we also we're we're fed so many ideas and images of who
these men are. And but now it's like Greg and
Clint in particular, our Co writers and director, They

(17:31):
wanted to deconstruct that because and get to know the men
that they've got gotten a chanceto know.
And I'm sure the film works in that way.
I think at its best, it sets up sort of these ideas and you
think it's going to lean into that trope, but then it smashes
it. And so it's working as it's
working on them. It's also working on the
audience having us rethink, rethink what we know about them,

(17:53):
you know, And so so for me, thatfeels very, I think there's a
tenderness that that runs through that film that I'm very
that's the one thing I knew I wanted for this film.
It's very important for me to see men being tender with one
another and it has nothing to dowith sexuality.
I just think it's key to our well-being.

(18:14):
Because we're not taught that way.
Growing. Up we have all these things that
we're fed and we're like, what? Why are we carrying that around?
We can let that go. We can let that go if we, if we
say we let it go and just say like, oh, the idea of me
reaching across and holding yourhand is just exhibiting
brotherhood and friendship and tenderness and kindness, you
know? Did you see that movie close?

(18:38):
It was it was a nominee. It was a foreign language film.
It's it's amazing. You have to see it.
It's like about these two young boys who just are growing up.
And and again, they're just the film does not sexualize
anything. It's just, it's really about
this intimacy that you're talking about that we're just,
we just don't, we just don't seeenough of or, and, and you see

(19:00):
how they are or not. Because I've been thinking a lot
about this with, with kids, you know, how, how does someone
become who they are? You know, like what leads to
what? And then and, and that's the
thing with, with boys and, and men in a lot of ways is that
there's no, there's no encouragement to sort of feel
your feelings. And then, and then we sort of,

(19:21):
you know, we end up in therapy if we or you know.
But horrible relationships and things like that, you know?
Yeah, so. Man, I think, I think and I
think that's the source of that film.
And I think why I know that. I think I know why you could
you've connected with that film because I'm I'm going to go to
some of your work, man, because I think what I wanted to say
before we even got this going was you have this beautiful

(19:46):
vulnerability that you show you.I think you bare a bit of your
soul and I think that I feel like, and I think maybe that's
it. I think the thing that I knew
that we how we see each other isthat we're doing some soul work
with the work we're doing. How else would you be able to
say yes and go into the character of Donald Trump,
someone who's very polarizing, you know, but to find his

(20:09):
humanity, which I thought was, you know, that's always the
goal. It's like, you know, I, you have
to am I, I'm going to put this on.
Did you have to find a way to love, to respect and look at
the? Through his lens, because I
think what I enjoyed about The Apprentice in particular, I was
like, oh, you, I'm now looking at the making of this person and

(20:30):
this person who has love, need, want desire, like anybody else
wants to be loved, wants to be valued, wants success, want the
American Dream. I saw all of that in your
performance and I'm like, oh, I don't.
Was it unscripted? Was it what Sebastian Stan gave
him imbued in him? You know what I mean?
Because I feel like there's a certain level of could you tell
me that like the certain level? I'm sure you can research and

(20:52):
research and research, but then a certain amount that you like.
What do you give to the character?
Yeah, and and I mean, you know, I definitely want to come back
because as you know, with real people that you know, you've
you've played, it's like you sometimes a real person you have
like this target at least you know where, where you're going,
you know, and you've got this like there there's things to

(21:14):
pick from. But but yeah, what's your
interpretation? And I think in this particular
situation, you know, it was really, yeah, I think we have to
remove ourselves at some point and, and remove our judgment and
just try to see it from a from ahuman place because I guess the

(21:34):
goal is always to understand. And even even somebody that you
know, you'd want to label, you know, that some people have
labeled as a monster or whateveryou want to.
I think that there's value in understanding what happens.
And I it's interesting for some reason, I don't know why.
Don't ask me. Sometimes I go to bed and I'm

(21:55):
like, why am I watching this really intense thing before bed?
But but I started I I like put on the Norman Norman Mailer
documentary for whatever reason last night and and he's a crazy
guy, but like. This is at bedtime.
Yeah, I didn't think about but he but he went into this thing
about like, you know, the the beast and all of us, so to
speak. And I know, you know, it's,

(22:16):
it's, it's, it's there. And I think, you know, I, I
think the way to deal with theseuncomfortable things, these
difficult things is, is by, is by sort of coming closer to them
and, and, and bringing them intothe light so that we can process
them in a way rather than right.So rather than pretending

(22:38):
they're they don't exist, or I'mtalking, I guess it pertains to
him or any judgment towards, youknow, like, or anybody that is
controversial or as consequential as he's been or
whatever. But so whenever somebody was
like, why are you doing this? You know, why do we need a movie
like this on this guy when there's so much out there
already is? Because I think we have to kind

(23:01):
of almost see, you know, the like, you know, in order to get
to empathy, you have to expose the opposite because otherwise
we're, you know, and, and also to know that in there's a seed
in all of us if we're not careful to fall a certain way.
I think for me coming to this country, you know, and this

(23:22):
thing about American Dream, I always heard American Dream,
American Dream growing up. And I've been haunted by this
American Dream because I came here and my mom was very much
like you're in America now. So you got to make something of
yourself. You got to be somebody because
now you have an opportunity, youhave a chance.
And, you know, I'm sitting thereand I'm taking this in and
obviously, knock on wood, I'm, I'm here with you now.
And it and, and there's, there'sgreat, there's great possibility

(23:46):
to, to, to the American dream inthis country, what we can become
and do in this country. But there's also a cost, I
think, and I think I'm still sometimes wrestling with, well,
when is it enough? And, and, and why do we, why is
it so important that we win? You know, why is it so important
that we. What does winning mean?
What is winning, you know, and, and what is even when you you

(24:09):
know, it's like you get nominated or, or you see people,
you know, I've met people like for instance, who won an Oscar
and they say to me they're like,it was the fucking it was, it
was, it was the worst day actually in my life or
something, you know, like where they're like suddenly, you know,
you're burdened by these certainthings.
So I guess I saw a lot more relatable into his story than I

(24:30):
thought. I don't know.
It's a long way of. Answering no.
And I guess that's the way you why you thought, oh, I have
something to give to this character, right?
Yeah, and there's something about this that's not, that's
that's foreign to me. And rather than judging it, I'm
going to try to see what I can, you know, like.
We're speaking the same languagethat that's what that's what
draws me to a lot of characters that I play.

(24:50):
I feel like I've had a little bit of a run playing some
villains, whether Zola or The Color Purple.
And I'm like, and people are like, wow, so you're a very nice
guy. You seem like to be a very cool
person, but why, why do you choose these roles?
I'm like, I think they choose me.
But also I feel like directors. Do you want me to come along on

(25:10):
the journey? And because I'm usually curious
about them, like, well, why do you think that way?
Or, you know, someone who someone who I'm 100% a feminist
and looking at someone who traffics women and I'm like,
well, I want to get into the psychology and find out why do
they do that? And you know, what makes the you
know, what do they want? What do they need?
What's what's lacking in them? You know, so for me that maybe

(25:31):
that's the work that we're doing.
I want to know what's what makesus more like than I like.
No, I think that's important. And, and I guess one of the
things like I was looking forward to asking you now,
because you know, in terms of like talking about even real
people and playing real people, like, you know, with Ruston, for
instance, like how did you have,did you spend like a lot of time

(25:56):
with, with him? Like what was that process like?
Like what, how much when, when, when did you feel?
Because you know, because there's this element right where
you feel like someone almost it's as if someone's giving you
a coat and you got to put it on and you hope it fits and maybe
it doesn't and then eventually it does or whatever.
But was there a moment in that where you were like, I got this
now or? I don't.

(26:16):
OK, I wonder if I still got. I don't know.
But I think that the moment I knew that the film was greenlit,
I started my research because I need to know everything that I
can possibly know for this, because this is a character that
has been marginalized in historybooks.
He's been one of my personal heroes.
I can get in there and really help figure out how to make him

(26:37):
make his soul sing in a way, youknow what I mean?
More than anything. But I knew that he had very a
very interesting cadence of speech that he had.
I knew I would have to wear prosthetics for my teeth, a wig,
the way he moved through spaces,the way he spoke and how he
coached, which switched all day long, how he had this weird

(27:00):
Mid-Atlantic standard accent that he created of his own.
And so I wanted to get all that down in some way.
And then I wanted to, I don't know, part of the process for me
was like, I want to know everything around that time
period around 1963, but also 1947 where some of his back
story goes. But also, so that was maybe 5
months of research. And then I think I'm someone who

(27:23):
likes to download a lot of information.
And then I need to also also then pull back at times and just
say, OK, now if I actually did his accent, the way he actually
spoke, I think you can't get through the whole film.
It's you're just focused on that.
So I had to make some choices tolike, you know, dial it back and
soften it and really just make it.
I'm not trying to do a documentary and I'm not trying

(27:45):
to be beholden to the man who hewas.
So I didn't have conversations with people who knew him until
the very end. Just thought I have to create a
character. And make.
It my own and I feel like, well,he would never do that.
He wouldn't sit like that. He wouldn't do that or whatever.
I have to take dramatic license for what I know with the script,
with my director, with my company and make some decisions

(28:07):
and for me. And then when I felt like I was
in a place, I felt like, how canI say I think I've worked with
people who have helped me in this way?
One in particular, George C Wolfe, help me not feel like I
arrived at it. That it's always a, it's always
an exploration. I'm still working, yeah.

(28:27):
There's never a result. No, it wasn't.
And maybe that's maybe this way I constantly work which is not
sort of results based. I'm like, Oh no, if I can
download and find these elementsthat works for this take and
this take and this take and you know, this coverage and
everything. And then I give it over and then
I, I hope by being sincere with what I know, with what I've

(28:48):
processed with my scene partner as well, that we've created some
moments that will build into, you know, part of this person's
soul and being, I think. Yeah, yeah.
So I never, I never, it's strange that I maybe the answer
is I never really feel like I'veI've arrived at it because I
don't know, it never happened, right?
Right. And maybe that's a good thing.

(29:09):
I think, you know, it's because people it's it's always an
exploration. Sometimes you don't know if
you're going to get there, you know?
You're like. And maybe that's it.
By divorcing myself of that, I feel like, you know, I don't
know, I'm just doing this sense of play and exploration and
we'll get there. But also I trust myself.
And usually I tell like I just started a new job and I
literally tell the DP and the new director, I said, just know

(29:33):
the first 3 takes is going to begarbage.
I just not because I'm not pressuring myself to arrive at
anything yet. I'm still trying to figure, oh,
your camera's moving there. OK, you're doing that great.
I'm looking at because I respondto everything.
It's, I realize it's actually part of a gift, but it's also
something that's terrifying. I respond to everything.

(29:54):
So there's a noise I hear my head goes this way.
I don't know how to not take it in, you know, because I feel
like everything is useful. I'm like, Oh yeah, that I want
to use that fly that's in the scene.
I can't help myself because it's.
That's the moment, that's what's.
And it's something that I didn'tby design, I didn't know was
coming, but I, I trust that I'veresearched and I've done the
work that I'm able to be available in the scene.

(30:15):
And so you know what I mean? And look for something a bit of
the divine to reside, you know? Yeah, and, and the only other
thing I was going to ask you about that was more because also
you as a director, right? There's also this other part of
your mind. I would imagine that's I would
say it's like almost like a bird's eye view probably, right.
I mean, because if you're, I think the directing thing I

(30:36):
would imagine helps you know in in some way, but it's always.
Interesting. People don't, but people don't
understand. Literally, I'm thinking about
this right now because I'm always standing, watching and
listening to everything and people don't know that I am.
But that's the director me, because I think that's the way I
came into this industry because I came in, I don't have any
formal training. I got all my training by doing
and by showing up to rehearsals.I wasn't even called for because

(30:58):
I was actually like learning from everything learning.
And so for me, when I go into set, I love, I'm the I'm the
actor saying I want to know where the cameras are, whatever,
what lens are you on? And it's just, it's not because
it helped me do my job, but alsowant to look at the whole and
what you're doing or, you know, it's just my first day on a new
step was yesterday. And I think they noticed that I
was, I'm listening to everything.

(31:20):
Like, yeah, yeah. And they don't know.
I'm listening to everything. I'm like, oh, no, but I'm like,
Oh yeah, I've heard that. I know what's going on.
I know. OK, great.
I think we're going to have like20 minute turn around, right,
Because you're going to do that.I'm like, OK, but that's just
that's directing me and with experience as well, but like
right, well, it's. Also probably like remember
those, I'm sure you've had thoseexperiences where you know,
those years where you're like ona job, you know, you know, when

(31:42):
we're starting out or whatever. And, and you're like, you feel
like you're not directed well oryou feel like, you know, you've
got to look out for yourself, like you, you just, you just do
and. I've had those jobs.
You know, you got it. You're kind of like you're your
own guardian, so to speak. You know, actually Jesse
Eisenberg was a Telluride and and he has this great movie, a

(32:06):
real pain that's amazing. And they interviewed him after
and he said something that stuckwith me, which was he was like,
I don't measure this. I don't measure like being an
actor or, or a director or writer by success.
I'm I measure it by productivity.
And he goes, I have a lot of friends who, you know, sort of

(32:26):
look back at this thing that wasgreat that they did 10 years
ago. He goes, I don't, I don't want
to be that person. You know, I want to have, I want
to always talk about the next thing, you know, and, and it's
and the the idea of productivitylike that was a really made
sense to me because I think we just, it's the it's about you
just have to kind of keep creating and, and even if not
all of it is always going to be,you know, some of it has to be

(32:49):
these swings that that, you know, we have to take.
I'm going to go to the next swing, man, a different man.
That's a great film, man. It's beautiful.
I even watched the interview that you guys did at New
Directors. Yeah, you guys just did
something. Recently or something?
Yeah, recently, yeah, I saw the new directors.org.

(33:10):
I was like, you know, making a burger last night and I was
like, let me watch this. But dude, the film knocked me
out. Your Co star.
Adam Pierce. He's phenomenal.
You 2 together, you 2 together. It's such a formidable pairing.
And just watch, dude. Just watching your eyes,

(33:32):
watching you react, watching youtake in what's happening as
people are loving on him and then wanting him to take over
the role and just watching that rage come out of you.
It's like no, because you play so many notes man.
Because you're first of all I'm going to give you, it's going to
sound like, I don't know what it's going to sound like, but
I'm going to give you 2 things because I literally told

(33:53):
somebody this after I said you have this thing, your face
changes a lot. And I will say, and I'm going to
say this because I know that mine does the same thing.
You can look absolutely handsomeleading man, gorgeous in one
frame and absolutely fucking hideous in the next.
It's a gift, man. No, but really no, because
you're because I think because it's something inside you that's

(34:15):
changing. There's something that is you're
bringing out a beast, the beast,the hideous nature and of
humanity. And you see it all over your
face. You're like, oh, he's the fuck.
He's a fucking monster. And you're like, Oh my God, no,
that's the beautiful leading manright there, Sebastian Stan.
But no, you have this face that keeps changing and you're like,
I can't tell him. Wait, wait, wait.

(34:37):
Which is which? Can I tell you something to
hopefully make you laugh? What I'll put away.
He just said my mom. OK, I love her.
But here's what she said to me recently.
She when she came to visit me, she was about to leave.
She goes, I'm like, oh, yeah, I'm going to.
Everything's great, thank you somuch.
And she goes, you know, I have to tell you something, but don't
get upset. I love the.
Setup. She's like, what's the problem?

(34:58):
You know, I'm already at like, an anxious place.
And he goes, no, she is. I know, you know, I know you're
an actor and everything, but maybe you can express a little
less. Wow.
I can see these lines in there. You know, Express.
A little. She's like, get some
moisturizer. She's like get.
A little. Oh God.
No, wait, what? She.

(35:18):
Thinks she thinks she was like alittle less, she's like, be a
little less intense with your face because I'm like mom.
But you know, I, I know what youmean about the face thing.
Like I think, yeah, like it's, Ithink it's a good thing.
For I think it's a great thing 'cause also your face changes in
moments. And I love the, the camera, the
way he would hold it on you because you would just watch
you. I would watch you think, and I'm

(35:39):
like, Oh my God, Oh my God, thisguy.
And there's a moment I'm not going to mention hearing because
I don't know when this comes outand when or when people listen
to him. I don't want to give away this
one moment toward the end where I was just.
I actually was like, no, you didnot.
Yeah, it's it's a crazy. That was always in the script.
And I was like, oh, wow, that's probably going to be fun to
play. But did you, you know, you, you

(36:01):
caught as a theater being havingdone theater, you caught all
those theater things? Well, yeah, but.
Also, but also, this is the wildest thing because I'm like,
we're living in the same space using theater with sing sing and
a different. Man, yes.
Oh, yes, yes. There's there's a conceit of
theater that's there which and also even the way it's shot in a
bit of a cinema verite way as well.
And I feel like the camera work is so fantastic because I'm

(36:22):
like, he's not the the camera. Your director is not afraid to
stay within a moment. And I was like, was that heavily
rehearsed or rehearsed for camera?
Because the camera was with you guys living, living right
outside of you, and then sometimes inside, Yeah.
No, it was, I mean he Aaron Schenberg, the director, you

(36:43):
know who he he wrote it and everything in there was, there
was not one improv in that like every comma, every ellipses,
every word was just like him. It was so tight, the way he and
then he had all these specific shots of he wanted to do these
long takes and there was a lot of these dollies or Steadicam.
A lot of that theater stuff was steady.

(37:04):
Steady. Yeah.
And I was. Like, oh, I'm so good.
And then it kept moving and thenyou know how it is, it's like
you get one take and then you go, that was that was a good
take. And then you're like, well, they
use that take because it's a different thing anyway.
But. No, but it was so good because
he knew how to. He was also framing when he
would put you in the foreground and the camera would swing
around and it was over three. And then I was like, oh, it was

(37:25):
beautiful. But I also felt like you guys
could fully be invested in in the center of performance.
And it wasn't like suddenly, oh,we're going to set up and our
camera is going to be over that person in your face.
I felt like you guys were. It really felt like I was
watching theater. Yeah.
And you guys had, you guys had that too, as you know because.
That's I feel it's very similar in that way.
I was like, oh wow, it's something that they.

(37:46):
We both have AI should say we both have a breakdown.
We both have breakdowns on the stage because that's the a place
where you can let go of all these feelings and emotions, it
seems. But yeah, I think that very much
the intention of the way we're shooting with a Pat Scola
cinematography. He was really looking at the
landscape of the human face is what he and Greg decided on.

(38:08):
Like those were big landscapes. We don't have huge set pieces,
you know, you don't get huge wides because it is a very small
contained spaces. But he was like, let me go into
this and. You guys did that one quick,
right? We did it in 18 days.
OK, so we were 22 and he. Was that was 22 days.
Yeah, and he dude, really scared.
But 18 and in New York? Crazier, Yeah.

(38:30):
And in the city? In the city, yeah.
Did you with COVID also? Oh yeah, same here.
We were in COVID too. Yeah.
I was like, we'll never get thisdone somebody.
Put in the COVID I know. This move will be wrapped in
five days. I mean, well, just the anxiety
of like, who's going to be the who's going to be next?
Dude, how did you live? I lived like a monk when I was
up there. I didn't do anything.
I was like, this film will go down during COVID.

(38:51):
I was like, I can't see anybody.I can't.
No, but but but maybe that helped, right?
I mean, I think so. Because you were isolated in the
film as it as it was. So I feel like, you know, and,
and I and, and I'm like you in that sense.
Like I really do sometimes believe in using everything.
I think every job is different, you know, and it depends a lot
on who you're working with. And, but, but I think those

(39:15):
moments does help, you know, I mean, my thing was because of
those prosthetics that got, you know, Mike Marino, who was doing
them, he, he had another job. So like, and he didn't want
anybody else doing it. But that meant that I sometimes
had to, even though we had a later call time, I had to go to
him before his other jobs call time, which was earlier.
And he would get me ready at like 6 and then I'd be waiting

(39:39):
until 11:12 to start as Edward. And so then I just like start
walking around and just seeing how people responded, you know,
but but the city was, it was interesting because it was all
interactive. Obviously it was a, it was a
different situation, but it was great.
You know, I, I mean, Adam was, is, is, I mean such a open and,

(40:02):
and, and courageous person. I mean, he doesn't, he's, he
owns himself so well. And I feel like.
I'm 42 now but you know it's butbut still not.
I'm like why? Why did I even say that?
But how? Old is Adam.
How's that? Adam no, but I was saying in the
sense of like identity, you know, I think a lot about

(40:24):
identity. And I think even in this
business, I, I, you know, I'm sure, right.
Like you have to, you have to beOK with yourself or you have to
protect your own integrity because you got people coming at
you going like you got to do this or do that.
And by the way, do you want to play another role like that?
You know, like there's so many things and factors and, and, and

(40:45):
also even I look at like just our world today, you know,
social media and everything. It's just, it feels like there's
always an attack on, on, on the self And, and we're so
everyone's always drawing, being, you know, asking you to
be all, all kinds of different things.
But I guess once in a while, youknow, you meet, you meet someone
like Adam Pearson and he's like,no, this is who I am.
And then and then you're, you know, you go.

(41:07):
That's the most inspiring thing ever.
So. What do you, what do you OK?
You OK? You say there's a couple of
things I want to ask you. I'm going to get all my thoughts
together because I'm like, I gotthree thoughts.
But one is you say you don't like complacency, right?
And you like moving forward. Are there?
Where do you find time to fill up the cup?

(41:28):
You know, do you now? I don't know where you live.
You don't have to tell me exactly where, but what do you?
I would no. I live in your dress.
I'm really in New York, but I'vespent a lot of time in LA.
OK, spent a lot of time in LA Yeah.
And do you live out in the country?
Do you live out in the, you know, I mean, cuz you're some
country in LA too, I mean. Like there is, but I yeah, I
mean you. Like city?
What, what, what? What do you fill up?

(41:49):
What do you? What do you?
Do you like the noise of the streets or do you like you?
Know, I, I do hear honestly hearI and I don't know why that is
like I, for some reason, every time I come here, I just go
people walking around and, and the buildings and the people.
LA to me is a hard one. I think it's a it's tough
because there it can be very isolating.
You know, you, you, you get up in the morning and if you're an

(42:11):
actor and you're not working and, and I've dabbled also like
because I also was just sitting by phone waiting forever for the
great phone call to come and it didn't then I'd be like, OK,
maybe I should like get interested in writing or try to
expand or so I do all that stuff.
But in terms of sort of like life, I find in New York here,

(42:31):
no one, you know, you just walk down the street and there's,
there's all people of all kinds and they don't.
OK, Now what is what about the level of the fact that you're
walking with? Do people stop you on the street
a lot or are you able to blend that?
Yes and no. I mean, it's gotten a little bit
more, but Even so people here like honestly, the last couple

(42:54):
of days has been really funny. Someone would just come and just
do a fist bump and it's like. Right.
But then occasionally there's, you know, you'll sit out and
someone's like videotaping you. And that always feels weird,
right? I mean, that's always like, but
I still feel I was like, man, I'm not going to let that.

(43:15):
Stop you from living. Yeah, you just can't, you know,
and it doesn't really. And and the other thing you lose
is, is sort of the reality, likeyour reality is not what
everyone else reality of you is.Like people would rather make up
their own ideas of you rather than actually accept who you

(43:36):
are. And and you go, OK, well, but
I'm still not going to stop who I am, you know?
Well, yeah, like, I mean, I get,I get I, I like to ride the city
bike around New York when I'm here and people are I always
stop like Coleman Domingo, what are you doing on a city bike?
I'm like he's. Just being a person.
Being being, you know, yeah, I used to.
I used to live in Manhattan Plaza on 43rd and 9th when I

(43:56):
lived here because I lived here for 16 years.
And eventually I had to move outof there because, you know, just
because. Is that the actor?
Building. Yeah, they call.
Yeah, they like they call it thehalf.
The way with actors, yeah. But it's, yeah, yeah, it's a,
it's a rent stabilized housing for actors and people in the
performing arts. It's a real Alicia Keys lived.
No, that building's got history.Jackson used to live there.

(44:18):
Angela Lansbury has great history.
I used to live there for many years and then I moved to LA
because I so I felt like when I was here, I needed to walk out
and feel like something could happen to me.
And I'm I've moved to the stage.I'm the opposite.
I like that I live in a very sort of like quiet little area,

(44:39):
a little isolated. I need the, I actually need the
isolation to create more. Now I need to wake up and, you
know, just look at the ocean andbe quiet and.
And music's a big part probably of, of your life where I like
music. I mean I.
Think so. I mean, I love music.
I mean, I feel like I come from people who just really, you

(45:00):
know, just admire musicians. I really think being a musician,
probably one of the greatest thing in the world, people who
create something out of nothing and with instruments and sound
and voice, I, they're my heroes.So yeah, I, I love, you know, I,
I, I'm a music affectionate so much.
I had a dance party last night. This is what I do.
I had a dance party last night because I'm like, yeah, I'm done

(45:21):
work for the week. I turned on some because Frankie
Beverly, the legendary Frankie Beverly passed away.
So I was like, I decided to put a, put together a Frankie
Beverly playlist and I gave myself a dance party last night.
I made a Margarita and I turned to the music.
I'm staying, I have this house on the lake that I'm staying in.
I just turned up the music superloud and had a full dance party
for like an hour sweating and dripping.
Oh man, that sounds like a lot. I.

(45:42):
Don't need to go out to the clubanymore.
I can make my own club now. No, exactly.
Yeah, I I think that I. Are you in the club?
No, no, it's those days are done.
Those days are and I yeah, I mean, and that's maybe that part
of New York. I don't, you know, I don't
experience anymore. I actually was asking somebody
before. So I'm like, where does, where
does everyone go on Friday night?

(46:03):
You know, because I, I, I'm like, I'm just curious, but.
What time are you usually in bed?
Oh. Man I mean these days it's like
a 10/30 dude. Dude, that, that's late for me.
I'm like 930. Really dude, I'm a 930.
Bedtime. But you're are you a morning
person? Yeah, I love.
Morning. I love looking at 5:30 in the
morning. By the way, to me the greatest

(46:24):
LA's ever is between like 5:30 and 11:00.
AM absolutely is. It's like it's quiet, yeah.
It's beautiful. You're watching the the fog, you
know, dissipate and it's just, it's such a beautiful place at
the time. It's always funny with me for
for me with the sun in LA because sometimes you're like, I
love a good cloudy day. Going back to that, going flying

(46:46):
out to LA, what were the jobs that you were like really trying
to get early in your career? Were you like?
Oh man, I was trying to and I've, yeah, I mean, I remember,
I, I remember getting close to movies like Jarhead and like, I
don't know, you know, I, I mean,definitely some the, you know,
Star Trek and like a bunch. Yeah, I wanted to get a job on

(47:07):
like The CW or something like. That CW Yes.
All these. Pilots.
Oh, I lots of pilots. The OCI think I tried out didn't
get that. That was a bummer, you know?
Yeah, I don't know. I mean it was just you just
tried to get. You tried to get a gab?
What did you do for part time work?
I, I, I worked in catering and, and yeah.

(47:32):
And it was like, oh, $20.00 an hour.
So we would do weddings and likeeverything, you know, events.
And that was in New York. That was in New York.
OK, I worked for a company called Metropolitan Catering.
Wait, I worked with them for a minute, dude, Yeah.
Yeah, that was in two probably when I got out of school in
2005. So dude.
What if we worked a shift together?
That would that would be ridiculous.
I was. Dude that's wild.

(47:54):
I was also I used to do one of my part time gigs was I used to
be a a dancer for bar mitzvahs. That's incredible.
It was. A great job.
Where there is footage of that? Obviously somebody has it some
some someone's bubby has images of me dancing and getting it,
getting the party started with like, you know, Mrs. Bernstein,

(48:14):
I was like, come on, let's get up and.
Bar Mitzvahs were fun, right? I was like.
Dude, bar mitzvahs are the best.The best but also the money
that's spent. It's like better than some
weddings. I know I, I, I, I worked a few
of them and then, you know, I'd been to a few of them, like just
growing up, you know, but, but Ialways thought I'm like, wow,
like what? A You never thought about who

(48:35):
those dancers were like that that.
Now. Like that, that skinny black
guy, you're like, what's he doing here?
But he's getting the party started.
Exactly. That was me and I got paid a
lot. That's some good money and good
tips too, you know. Yeah, I mean, that was a way to,
you know, get get started and and what was and when did you do
law and order? When did I do law and order?

(48:57):
I did law and order three times.The first one was playing a
schizophrenic heroin addict on Law and Order, Criminal Intent,
but also did Law and Order with Sam Watterson.
That was. I was one of the last people I
felt like getting a job on law and order.
That was the job that I just couldn't get.
For some reason. I thought like, oh, I'm not an
actor worth my grand assault. This.

(49:17):
Is so funny with law and. Order.
I felt like I'm like, I suck if I'm not getting a job on this.
But then I got 1 and Sam Waterson gave me the greatest
compliment I think anyone has tothis day has given me.
He said I had a scene with Dennis Bucatera.
I said, I play a young lawyer. And it was like Sam Waterson was
like, who does he remind you of?And I was like, you know,
listen, I was like, who's he going to thank someone?

(49:39):
That doesn't make sense to me. He said, listen to his voice.
Who does he sound like? And then I said, uh huh.
I hear what you're saying. And then Sam says, you know who
you remind me of? A young Peter Fonda.
I was like, what? And that was such a great
compliment because, you know, I thought it was going to be like
some like Chris Rock or something like that.
And I respect Chris, but I'm like, we're very different

(50:00):
actors, you know what I mean? You know what I mean?
But I'm like a young Peter Fonda.
I was like, oh, Sam was able to hear something and see something
that was outside of the container that I'm in, which
made me feel really good. That's awesome.
Yeah, what about your law and order?
Who did you play? I was.
I was with Ty Burrell. He played my father and we were

(50:20):
like father son, sniper killers.Yeah, it was my the only and Sam
Watterson was on it, and it was Jesse L Martin and Jerry Orbach.
Oh my, the great Jerry Orbach. Yeah, and it was like I was
still in school when it happened, and it was a whole
thing with Rutgers, like lettingme out.
You went to Rutgers? I did, yeah.

(50:40):
Mason. 'S yeah man, yeah, yeah.
It's. Cool.
Did you ever meet Bill Esper or any or?
I never met Bill Esper, but he'svery famed, so yeah.
I never met him though, yeah. Oh, and Israel Hicks is who we.
Israel Hicks, another great fame.
Yeah, and he actually gave me, he gave us like the best, he
gave advice ever, which was likeyou bring your day to work, you

(51:04):
know, you bring your day to to the audition.
You know, it's like if you're if.
And I always stuck with me because, you know, like
everything in you, when you're ayoung, when you're a young
actor, whatever, and you're going up to that room or
whatever you want to, you want to impress, you want the
approval, you want to come in there and be nice, be cordial,
whatever. And, and maybe something happens
on the way, you know, you spill coffee, somebody bumps into you

(51:24):
or you fall or whatever, you're late.
And so like, come in there with that truth.
And it will still it will, it will be more than you know,
Don't put on that thing. Just let it be the moment and.
Do you bring that into meetings that you have?
Do you bring in your day? Do you like?
I do know, actually I do. Yeah.
I'm. I'm still, yeah.
I'm always like, yeah, no, got this call today.

(51:46):
And, you know, I, I think, I think it's OK to do that.
I feel like. It is.
I think, you know, it's funny. I think when it comes to
meetings, like I'm really funny with meetings because I feel
like I dress down. I sort of like, I will like sit
in a meeting at like a big studio and I was sort of lay on
the lay, just layout a little bit because I want to make sure.

(52:07):
And I think it's, I realize it'sfor myself to be very
comfortable because I feel like it's set up for me to be like,
oh, should I be nervous? And I'm like, I'm going to go
the opposite. I'm not going to dress up for
them. Usually I wear all black.
I look like a New Yorker in these big LA meetings.
And I sit there and I'm like also, I like to always think and
I say to myself, there's nothingthat I need from you.

(52:28):
I actually walk in in the room saying that there's nothing I
need here. What I can is give and you can
give and we can have an offeringand a sharing together.
And for me, it's not even about the job.
I always think like, if I walk out of here and we, we can, we
can great be good colleagues andI can see you and we can talk
about your kid. That's awesome.
But it's, it actually isn't about the job.
And I always try to tell young actors that too.

(52:49):
Like, I think it's important to walk in with a sense of not
needing anything because you know, you can't, you can't book
from that. You can book from just being a
grounded person and a curious person and interested and
interesting. You know, exactly.
I mean, I remember I had a producer one time, or it was
like a studio executive also, you know, that said, sometimes

(53:10):
I'm just like looking to see if I, you know, if when we're
shooting 100 miles away from here, you know, all the way in
like AM. I going to like that dude.
Are we going to get along? Are we going to are we going to
be able to go to dinner and likesit down and get along Because.
And that's the thing about like,maybe why it is good, you know,
LA and kind of wherever that home is, because we really are

(53:32):
far away. When when, when it happens, you
know, and you're and you go awaywith this group of people and
you have this internal experience and it might as well
just be worth it. Yeah, it's true, you know.
I, I think, listen, I, I feel like I, I, I've said this before
and I really do mean it. I really want to work with,
especially now I feel like I, listen, I'm 54 years old turning

(53:54):
55 and I feel like I just want to continue to work with people
I'm going to love. And it may sound like, very,
very much like a Pollyanna in some way, but I'm like, this
life is too short, man. I just want to go in and we're
going to like, are we going to have a good time and get along
and really treat each other in alovely way and have some laughs?
I don't want to be stressed and anything that's like too.

(54:16):
I know how to let go of things that are not unhealthy.
I like my whole life is a very, I have ease in my life and I
think I've designed my whole life to have ease so I can walk
into the room and feel love and grace.
Yeah. But man, there's so many.
There's a lot of other folks in here that are not coming from
that place. And I'm like, I don't want any
of that. So I'm very clear about like
saying, oh, no, that's not useful.

(54:37):
That's not going to work unless we're going to come together in
this other place, which I think is you can actually build from
and create from. Yeah.
Yeah, trust, right, Because I think if we have that trust, we
can kind of go anywhere. Yeah, in in that moment, but.
You can't be looking over your shoulder.
Right. No, no, I, I and I, I remember
being younger and, and people wanting, you know, even looking

(54:58):
for that kind of drama, right. Like, Oh yeah.
In your own life. Yeah.
And, and just to feel, to feel everything And, and, but I, but
I realize I've had, yeah, betterresults with actors that I
worked with where I was like, before we were like, we're good,
we're good, you know, and then you, you can go to these places,
but. Yeah.

(55:18):
What? What I have a some very small
questions for you to like. It's going to sound like the
Actor's Studio. I know that was fun.
I used to. Watch, I used to watch it all
the time, actually had it done to me too.
By the way, James Lipton came onstage after passing strings that
I did on Broadway because he knew Issa Davis, my Co * and she

(55:41):
said she said would you like himto ask the questions?
And he said. No way, that's what's your
favorite curse word. Yeah.
What's your favorite curse word?What's your favorite sound?
What did I say? My favorite.
I think my favorite sound was like, you know, my mother's
voice. I think my favorite curse word
was motherfucker. What's yours?

(56:03):
I. Mean fuck yeah, it's only yeah,
I mean, I guess yeah that. What's your favorite sound My.
Favorite sound? Oh man, it might be that quiet
in in between at 6:00 AM LA time.
You know when it when everythingelse is still waking up.
That's a pretty good sound. And if there's a heaven, I

(56:27):
forgot. You remember that one?
That was the best one. If there's a heaven, what was
you when you were entering the pearly gates?
What would you want God to say? Sebastian Stan.
Oh, God, I would probably say, you know, him to say or her to
say, or they to say or they. Yeah, or just you.
You did your best. You know, you did.

(56:47):
You did your best. I think that.
What about you? I would say come on in,
motherfucker. Margarita.
And he's got a Margarita for me,and he's playing Frankie and
Frankie Beverly's there singing of.
Course. That's exact.
I need it to be a full event like that.
I like to listen, listen. I think I like to.

(57:10):
I like to, I told someone recently said.
I don't want to. If I do go out, I don't want to
be at the party. I want to be the party I want
to. That's why I love hosting.
I love having people over because I love to have a good
time and just curate the whole event.
I think that's where I find mostof my joy, you know?
Well, I mean, I also just think that's, you know, when you
really meet people and I and I feel even in this business, I

(57:33):
mean, I feel I've connected withpeople and more in environments
like that than I have in a, in ameeting or in an office.
You know, it's like and and and I always think of like the great
parties that used to be, you know, like that.
I would imagine you know, the the the old days like Truman
Capote or something, you know, just just like the.

(57:55):
Do you throw any? Do you throw parties?
No, I'm not. I'm not a really like a I'm not
that good at like like party throw.
I I'm too. I'm too.
I try to, you know, manage everything.
I'm too worried that is everyonehaving a good time or whatever
but but I do like getting on theSpotify if it if if need if need
OK you. Say you can mix it up on the
Spotify. A little bit like I, I feel like

(58:15):
I could, I wish I would have tried being just for me, just
for fun, like the deejaying thing, just for a little bit,
'cause I, I, I think there's something.
Maybe that's your place at the party.
You're like, I'm gonna just curate this.
Yeah, it's, it's fun kind of guessing and seeing the energy
and then just putting one thing and seeing that shift, you know,
and everyone's like, oh, OK, we're, we've just moved up.
We've moved. Up or they look at you, they're

(58:37):
like, oh, it sucks you brought it down.
Or the Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Listen when next time you're in
LA and Natasha Lyon is back in LA.
Oh, and. She's loved.
She and I throw parties together.
Oh, that's amazing. We threw a New Year's Eve party
where I DJ Ed and I got a littleshy, but I had to turn it out
because Questlove walked in the door and I'm like, OK.
No, I can't let him. I can't get off my game.

(58:57):
So we threw a New Year's Eve party, but we throw these
parties in LA together that are just about bringing people,
artists together. It's like a sort of old school
salon. I feel like it's like I.
Think that's. Great.
The league of like Truman Capoteand feel been like because we
realized somebody's got to have them and we started to curate
them together. She's like, hey, call me.
And should we have a party this weekend?
I'm like, sure. She'll put out some little
flyer. I don't even know what the flyer

(59:17):
says. It's kind of weird and, you
know, artistic and the little something salacious.
And she'll just, like, put it out.
Yeah. And party at my house, you know,
And we always promise that there's going to be an orgy.
There's no. It's always a joke.
But I've had some people call meand just like, hey, so.
There's LA you're. Like, no, it's a joke because
she's like bring, you know, bring, bring, bring something to

(59:38):
wear in the pool or not because so we can get this orgy popping.
But it would be funny. Somebody actually did show up
going like. Ready for the orgy?
Like, no, what happened? We're gonna wrap this up in.
But I guess you know, talking about orgies is a good place to
wrap it up I guess. Hey, listen, you know, it's,
we're all, you know, we're all doing our best.

(59:59):
Sure, somebody would like to hear that in the middle of an
orgy. I'm just doing my best.
Could you imagine that that? Person actually, you know, the
other thing, like, I don't know if you ever met, you know,
Anthony Mackie, he's like, oh. He's cool.
He he and I have a always a funny thing.
We have a a whole thing that we always say to each other, hey
man, we're just trying to stay alive, you know?
That's it. But we're just trying to stay

(01:00:21):
alive. So we'll, we'll wrap this up
with that, I guess, right, with that.
We're just trying to stay alive.You know and do our best.
That'll close this out. Thanks man, it's good talking.
To you man, it's such a pleasure.
I'm I'm so happy we got to connect.
Me too. They're coming to get us.
All right. Thank you.