Burning For Something with Celine Song & Sofia Coppola

Topics covered include: seeing your first movie at the neighborhood theater, the pressures of live performance, the animal that is the audience, parallels between directing and motherhood, abandoning the miracle, autobiographical filmmaking, feeling like broccoli, the Pacific Ocean as the villain in Past Lives, Harry Styles fan-fiction, writing on planes, revisiting The Artist’s Way, avoiding the sophomore slump, Francis Ford Coppola’s directing advice, a shared love of Barry Lyndon and Miyazaki, taking the audience to Mars, and what genre they would like to explore next (sci-fi, westerns, horror!)

Episode Transcript

(00:01):
OK, they'll start rolling about.That are you?
Are you burnt on talking about your film?
No, I mean, you know, but I feellike it's been a whole.
It's been a whole year. Yeah, right.
It's been a whole year. Come out.
Come on. Sundance.
It was Sundance was world premiere last year.
Oh, yeah. So I went back one.
Year ago or two years ago? One year ago.
Really. Yeah.

(00:21):
Oh. My God, I remember seeing Past
Lives at the Angelica when it was there and it was, it was
like the first time I'd been in a theatre with an audience and I
just, yeah, I loved it. And the whole other room was
packed and people were so into it.
And it just made me excited about movies, what kind of
movies that I love. But it was so personal, and it's

(00:45):
always been something's like touching it but not
embarrassing, like, you know, that is done.
Yeah. Just with restraint and taste.
And. Yeah.
So I loved it. But what?
I'm just curious. I know you were a playwright
before, and this is your first film.
Did you make short films before?Is this the first time you ever
did something with the camera? It's the first time, well, I
think that I was in theatre for 10 years and I remember

(01:10):
transitioning into film. And then, I mean, I I was
thinking about this before, which is that like, I mean, when
we first met, we met at the Chanel event.
Oh, yeah, Yeah. And I was just like, I remember
sitting there and like looking over at you and being like, Oh
my God. Sophia couple last year and then
of course you came up and then you told me that you saw it at
the Angelica and to me I'm like,that's just feels so special

(01:32):
because of course the New York film.
Yeah. And to be, yeah, to be in New
York and go in my neighborhood and oh.
Yeah, like walk over to the movie theatre.
Like that was one of my favoriteparts of moving to New York,
that you can just walk over to your neighbor movie theatre and
be like, I hope the movie I wantto see is there.
Yeah, so we're excited that yourmovie was at the Angelica.
Did you? Yeah, of.

(01:53):
Course, I feel like that was such a, that was such a wild
thing. And I feel like being in
theatre, so much of your life isabout like, because theatre is
local. Yeah.
Right in such a deep way, yeah. Have you?
Have you wanted to work in theatre?
Have you felt? Oh, like a lot.
In is a. Director.
A writer, yeah. You know, I've only.
I did once. I directed an opera in Rome at

(02:15):
the Rome Opera House. I did La traviata.
Oh, my God. And it was really the scariest
thing I've ever done. And, and I was really, I just
rely so much on my cinematographer that like not
having the camera to tell the story was really interesting.
But then it, it realized it wasn't that different.
You're just, you're still telling a story with actors and
of course, and just using lighting and staging.

(02:37):
And but it was so exciting because I remember that she has
to walk down this big staircase.I thought like, what if she
falls like that? That live thing is so yeah, it
was such an exciting, different experience, but.
But I, I love that about film where I'm just like, you're
never going to miss the lightingqueue, right?
You're never going to miss the sound queue because that's like
a natural part of live performance.

(02:58):
So it's like your stage manager is always having to do that
accurately every night. Like they're there every night.
Like hitting the Yeah. I never thought about that.
So for you, you can really get it exactly how you imagine and
not worry about something. Every night it will be every
time anybody plays it. A movie.
Anytime you play it, it's going to be the same.

(03:18):
But in theatre, it might be a little sooner, a little bit
later than you might want it. Right, but each performance feel
different too of. Course, well, the audience is
different, yeah. And right.
And actors are are they're people, right?
Yeah, that's so in fact, they are people.
Yeah, they. Are yeah, I find it really

(03:39):
mysterious because I, yeah, I don't it's not that familiar to
me and but I thought it was exciting.
But it's yeah, it's totally foreign.
Well. The the because the actors
respond to the animal that is the audience, right?
So you're seeing like the actorschange their performance.
Oh, interesting. And we get to see that, I feel
like in film, in front of the camera, right?

(04:01):
But the audience doesn't, of course.
Like if they see, I'm sure that's what was happening to you
because that's what's happening to me where like if I look
happy, the actors like I'm theiraudience, right?
So the actor will. Play for you play.
For yeah, right. And then if I look worried,
they're like, yeah. That's interesting that you

(04:21):
probably have a that's so smart that as you're directing that
you know that you're the audience because you've had that
experience in the theater. But yeah, that's totally.
I didn't think of it as that you're being their audience
live, but that makes sense. They they totally are looking
for your reaction and well. You're the chief audience.
The director is a chief audience.
But of course, the whole crew, yeah, you know, you're are

(04:43):
cinematographers. Like they're also the audience
too. Also, the director sets the tone
and yeah, I don't know, I feel like there was a, there's a bit
of performance that I felt like.I had to do.
Yeah, That's interesting. No, I do feel like that.
Everyone's looking to you. I think of it as like motherhood
because it's the same kind of role where they're looking at
you. Is it OK?
And it's the same thing I feel like with kids or something.

(05:04):
So I feel like yeah. And definitely setting the tone.
I think that makes a huge difference.
I know people so like, oh, you're sets are common.
I realize I don't spend time on other people's sets that much,
but I, I definitely have a rule about no yelling or like I never
want to AD that's a screamer andit's so unnecessary.
So I do think that that yeah, the atmosphere is important and
I and I could tell, I bet from your movie that it was because I

(05:27):
of your demeanor that it was calm.
I'm sure I. Feel like I don't, I think, I
think yelling everything, but I feel like more importantly, it's
like it just can't ever turn personal because we're all there
to do work. And I think to me, I'm like that
when you talk about motherhood. I felt that way so.
Much care. Of your people because I'm not a
mother and it really I think directing a movie made me

(05:52):
realize that I could do it like I could be a mom like there was
a real revelation for me becausebefore I made past lives I was
like can I be a mom like is thatsomething that I can do and then
once I made it I'm just like I can do it I.
Can do anything after that if it's.
But you're taking care of peopleand everyone's looking to you
the same time. When people falls down, they
look at you and they have to be like, yeah, you're fine.

(06:13):
Yeah, so. It's a similar thing.
Yeah. You were so right.
You're just like, and I think you're just holding down the.
Yeah, right. You're just holding it down.
And even when you're scared. Yeah, you have to.
You can't. They can't do it.
Yeah. Yeah.
So you're you're. Like your partner now Yeah cuz
right, cuz sometimes like I feellike and sometimes the partners
different. Usually I feel like.

(06:33):
My producer is usually the, they're the, they're the
partners that I can go to them and say like, I'm I'm scared.
Right, yeah, no, I I love having, I have a producer that I
work with all the time and I feel like I could follow up.
I don't have to be strong with with him, but I remember like I
was having a hard time right before I was about to start
shooting on Purcell and we had to like cut a bunch of the, the

(06:54):
script down like the week beforeand my kids were calling from I
was in Toronto, my kids were in New York.
They needed me and I was just like, and I looked at my DP and
he's really sensitive and he's and he and I and I and he, I
looked like I was about to fall apart.
I was like, I'm going to, I needto be strong.
And he's like, you don't have tobe strong all the time.
Like it was so sweet. But but having those those
relationships with your crew that you really trust and that
you can have doubts and be vulnerable, I felt like is so

(07:17):
totally well, I feel. Like you can always ask for help
from them. Yeah, you.
Know yeah, there was a moment where I was like, everything had
gone very badly for that day andwe didn't know if we're going to
get what we needed because. And for all the technical
reasons, basically we were trying to catch this one sunset

(07:37):
and we had a whole plan about catching the sunset.
And that day, because it was cloudy, there was no sun, and we
scouted that location like 10 times.
For that sun. For that sunset, and we had
prepped it for the sunset and there was no sun to set.
And what did? You do did.
You well, it was funny because there's a part of it because we

(07:59):
had invested so much into that sunset that we were all like, I
don't know, you don't want to give up on it right So in a
funny way, I think that me and my DP and our whole crew, we
were like acting like a miracle was going to happen, right,
right. But of course miracle didn't
happen. And then there was a moment
where I had to be like, well, the miracle is not coming.

(08:20):
So we're going to have to go andask our actors to bail us out.
And that's what happened. So I asked my actors, Teo and
Greta, who had who are waiting to, you know, go And I went to
them and I was like, and it's kind of like they're just being
like, well, so mommy needs help,you know, I'm like, hey, like

(08:41):
there's no sunset. There's no sunset.
We have time for maybe 3 takes so you're gonna have to bail us
out. Yeah, they're gonna have to make
the magical moment. They're gonna have.
To make the sunset. We shot it without the sunset,
but it's the scene in front of the carousel where it's just
like a 1, you know, and it's just one position for the
camera. And then we just do the whole

(09:02):
scene there and we just roll that roll on that three times.
Until you lose the light. And until you lose the light and
then but of course, like, but I was in the edit, I was like, oh,
you don't. Even.
You never the concept was gonna be too much oh oh, see it
always. Works out the.
I thought it always works out the way it's supposed to.
I don't know. I feel like that must be a
Sometimes I'm like, well, there's a movie God, and

(09:24):
sometimes the movie God is blessing you.
You know, but I think it always,I feel like an experience.
It always works out the way it'ssupposed to.
Like sometimes if the actor endsup falling out, you can't get
them. You have to get someone else.
And then you're always like, oh,I'm so glad it was them.
Like they're so much better thanthat.
So I feel like, I feel like there is.
Well, the right person is the right person always.

(09:44):
Yeah, you know. And things like that, like it
would have been too much like I felt like it.
Yeah. Well, you just have to make what
you can with what you have. But I think usually it works out
the way. It's not meant exactly.
I mean, is it delusion? I don't.
I don't think sometimes it's objectively better.
Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Yeah, I think it's. Yeah, yeah.
I think that's the excitement ofit because you lose the location

(10:05):
or the weather or something and it you have to figure it out and
then you you come up with something that you might not
have thought it right. But I mean, I feel like you,
what I always think about with your films is the, of course,
casting is everything, but I feel like the way that your
voice is also seen through casting.
I always think about that. I loved, I loved your cast.

(10:26):
Yeah, I loved your cast and I feel like your cast is like you
can tell what your I feel like adirector's voice is actually
seemed very much through casting.
And I feel like I was always so curious about the way that you
cast. Like what was your process of,
you know, thinking? About Jacob, yeah, I love your
cast. I think it is.
I guess it's a reflection of your kind of your taste or like

(10:48):
what how you see a woman and what qualities and I guess,
yeah, I never thought about that.
The personality of the person does come close.
So yeah, I think it's just, I usually just think it's I meet
people in the people that you connect with, you think that
they have the same sense of humor or they seem smart or like
it's like a taste thing of like how they would and then you
trust them of like how they would approach things.

(11:09):
I feel like when I first worked with Kirsten Dunst, I felt like
it was my first film and just having that like being on the
same wavelength helped me so much because she she got what I
was talking about without havingme having to explain so much.
And then, and then as we work together over the years, like I,
that's something that I, that I love having that rapport.

(11:30):
But don't you think it's just you?
You're drawn to certain people and yeah, talking to them, they
kind of get what you're talking about because they're, they have
to convey what you have in your.Mind.
Totally. And it's like if they get it,
they get it right yeah. And I do think it's about a
tasting too, because sometimes Ican't explain why, yeah, that's
the right person, even though ifyou were to break it down

(11:50):
objectively, like maybe like theperson that I don't think is
right and the person that I do think are right is right is
maybe most people can't tell thedifference.
Yeah, but I know. Yeah, I feel like whoever you're
just excited about, that's how when I can't tell I'm just like,
who would I be excited to see inthat part or that's a big part
when I'm writing that motivates me.
Like the part I love is like getting the actors there and

(12:12):
seeing them play it out. Do you, do you imagine sometimes
actors when you were writing that or?
I have real trouble doing that. Well, this story seems so
personal. Yeah.
Where you just kind of putting yourself into it was how
autobiographical. Was it?
I feel like I would say it was like a inspired by
autobiographical moment because it's like the opening scene of

(12:34):
sitting between the the child sweetheart come to visit and
your husband. Oh.
I love, I love the opening. Yeah, and that was happening.
What's going on? Did that happen to you that.
Happened to me and I was sittingthere with my child sweetheart
who's now a friend and had come to visit me from Korea.
And we weren't, it wasn't like that kind of a thing, but we did

(12:54):
speak a separate language then. The one I have with my husband,
who I live with in New York City.
And he doesn't speak English. Yeah, he doesn't speak English
and my husband tries but doesn'treally speak Korean.
And I think that really translating between these two
people and realizing both of them know a part of me that the
other person right doesn't know.And also they, but they're

(13:18):
trying what a beautiful thing that they're trying to know what
the other person knows. Right.
And the different sides of yourself.
Different sides of myself, but also like I felt like, well, I'm
only whole. I'm only, I can only be known
wholly if both of them are here,right?
I can only be known by them collectively if they both are

(13:38):
trying to communicate what they know about me.
Right. Or you're the only one.
I'm the only one also. So.
So I have to be loved in this way.
And that's the only way I could be loved in full.
Right. And how good they were to each
other, you know, and how much they wanted to be decent to each
other. That was such a moving thing.
Yeah. And I think that moment was the

(14:00):
inspiration for the whole thing.That's so interesting.
Yeah. So I feel like when it comes to
autobiographical things, some ofit is about like, well, what
does the character want? And sometimes it's like, well,
this part of autobiography is really interesting for the
character. And some of it I'm just like,
it's not that interesting, but right, Right.
Right. So I think it's just kind of
like a puzzle. So for that, yeah.

(14:21):
But yeah, I mean, I feel like that's one, but I'll feel like
in general, in my life, I don't think I've ever been able to
write for a specific actor because.
Because you're thinking a moment, yeah.
Because you're trying to create characters that sort of exist
for the film alone, right? Right.
And I wish that I was a little bit more like, well, blah, blah,
if I get blah, blah, blah for this role, it'd be perfect.

(14:42):
But it's usually and also I wantto see, I want to see new sides
of actors too. Yeah, definitely.
You know what I mean? Because.
I think that's exciting. When you see someone you're
like, you know that they could do something that they that you
haven't they haven't shown before.
I love that. Yeah, that's exciting.
Because it's like, I want to always be able to say that to
the actor that I'm working with every day to be like, we're

(15:02):
going to do something new today,right?
Because it's a little bit, I don't know.
I think it's like. Otherwise I think they they feel
like like tools or or objects for the thing.
Yeah, you want it to be excitingand a challenge.
Yeah. You want it to be feel like it's
a relationship we're having. Yeah, right.
Yeah, yeah. And that you're finding it

(15:22):
together. Exactly, Yeah.
Did you with that? It's so I mean, it makes sense
that it that that story came from that moment.
Did you ever explore that in a play before you decided to make
it as a film? No, no.
Were you were you thinking? I want to you were thinking
about a film and and that story could fit as a film instead of a
play. Well, I think that I actually
felt like the the film was the only way that this particular

(15:46):
story could work, right, Right, right.
Because it spans decades and continents.
So it kind of is like you kind of need to feel the location and
the right, because it's like what my joke is usually that
it's like the villain of the villain of the story is 24 years
in Pacific Ocean, right? Yeah, yeah.
Like that's the reason why they're not together.

(16:07):
It's not because of anything else.
It's because of the way that I live sort of work.
Out, yeah. Yeah, of course.
And I assume that when you're working on Priscilla, part of it
is that you fell in love with the book.
Yeah, yeah, I was just in her book.
I thought there was, I was surprised with that.
There were parts that were relatable and just like the

(16:30):
human aspect, but that, you know, any girl gone to these
different moments and then like to hear that what she went
through and it was just surprising and just that the
complexity of their relationshipand and, and I think I don't
know, I guess they're related tothat.
We all go through. Or when you're younger, you can
be in relationships where you think it's your whole life.

(16:52):
And then of course, it just becomes, you know, a moment in
your life that shapes you and, and, and just how much you'll
learn and put up with in a relationship and what you.
Yeah, I just kind of what you went through.
I thought it was relatable to that experience of being being
young and crushes and of. Course, but also like they're

(17:13):
wanting to be in a relationship with like Justin Bieber.
Yeah, yeah, right. Because that's who Elvis was.
Yeah. Because Elvis was just like the
biggest possible star. It's like 1.
It's like I want to. It's like the how teenage girls
want to be in a relationship with like Timothy Chalamet.
Yeah, exactly. And and like, yeah, of course
they're gonna. And they could, you know,
there's a lot of fan fiction about that.

(17:33):
You know, yeah. Oh yeah.
Or about. Like Harry Styles.
Like Harry Styles. There's a really famous one, I
think. Yeah, but I don't totally get it
because I think it's like they he like locks you up.
Oh, really? Which I think is like I I was
thinking about it. Yeah, I never understood like
those like 50 Shades of Grey 9 to probably 9 1/2 weeks the the

(17:54):
no, I haven't read. I haven't read 50 Shades of Grey
either. No, I haven't either.
No, I mean, I think I tried to. They sent it to me when they
were making it. They were like, no way.
I mean, I think it's just that thing where it's like it's, it's
funny the the desire to be dominated by that, that person
that you adore. Yeah, I don't get that as as as

(18:16):
an adult, but I I can see it as a as a teenager that it's like
so there's so much mystery and I.
Mean, I wonder if it's also a part of like being such a
because something that really struck me about your movie.
Priscilla is such a good girl. Oh yeah, but she but she has a
rebellious. But that's what I mean.
But I think that, well, I was AIwas a pretty good girl when I

(18:36):
was little. And I think that part of it is
like when you're a good girl, but you want all these, but
you're so like you're burning. Yeah, for something, right.
And a part of it is you just have a bad desires, right.
Yeah, Yeah. Because every up at school, like
I'm like, I do my homework, I show up.
I'm so like. I'm not that rebellious, yeah.

(18:57):
Or you like this as well? Like, yeah, yeah.
So but then I feel like because of that.
Yeah, you want to have another side?
You want to have another side and what an amazing thing that
your other side is. For Priscilla, it's it's been a
relationship, secret relationship with Elvis.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. To me, it's like the ultimate of
all the yeah kind of desires of of that age.

(19:17):
Yeah, that you don't want to, that you don't want to be like,
you've been in so much trouble, you know what I mean?
Yeah. Yeah.
What a special feeling. But then you're in so much
trouble. But you're so in love and you're
still most powerful pop person ever.
It's so crazy, but I think it's like, yeah, super romantic and
yeah, yeah. Yeah, but it's not what it

(19:39):
seems. Too, Yeah, yeah, no, I love that
that it looks like this like fairy tale and then the the
darkness of it. I'm so I'm excited that about
the you starting in this as a film.
How did you put your team together?
Because I feel like it takes a while to find your team and this
being your first film, did you know any of the crew before or

(20:02):
how did you find them? I show them my script and then
they wanted to do it. Yeah, that's great.
I mean, I usually call it like AI call it like my seduction
technique, like the animal Kingdom that you have that you.
Have like your superpower. I just to show them the script
and of course, like the script is meant as like a kind of a

(20:23):
pitch document, right? Because it's meant to be like
this is the kind of movie it's going to be.
So it's like if they wanted to come and do it.
And by the way, it's not like most of the people first person
that we were sent to, they wouldread it and they want to do it.
But I think sometimes, like sometimes you don't get it and
then that's OK. You know, it's like, and then
I'm like, oh, that's such a lovely way to know.

(20:44):
If they're the. Right.
They're the right person because, right, Because I'm
like, well, the movie that I want to make isn't changing.
So if they don't really think that, it's cool.
Then that's yeah, that's so that's so wise of you.
I, I remember when I was trying to lost in translation and I met
a few different producers and myscript was very slim and, and
like it was very, very minimal. And I remember some producer

(21:07):
being like, oh, we'll work on the story more and like just
didn't get it at all. And then I met another producer.
They were like, Oh yeah, this iscool, we can do it.
And then so I end up working with them.
So it's true. Maybe your project just finds
who who clicks with it. Yeah, I agree.
I think it is like dating where,Yeah, right.
We're just like, well, for somebody, you're exactly what
they're looking for. Yeah, Yeah, right.

(21:28):
Yeah, that's true. And you don't wanna be with
anybody who is not doesn't that you're not that for you.
Yeah, exactly right. I think so much of it is a
sensibility. Exactly.
And I love the guy who plays your husband is Had you worked
with him in the theatre? No, I I met all of them in like
audition or a meeting. Did you know Greta from?

(21:48):
No, I didn't know her. Yeah, I didn't know her from I
had, I hadn't watched the show, but she's more of a comedy.
Person yeah, yeah. She, I think most of her work
was in like comedy, a lot of it was in TV and then so she
auditioned, she sent in a tape. Oh wow.
You know, and Tayo, who plays headhong, he played, sent in a
tape. Did you know right away when you

(22:08):
saw them? Yeah, yeah, you just do.
Yeah, you just meet them and then you're like, I think it's.
You. Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, right. And then you just try to see if
you're right. So that's what the audition was
like my callback audition, whichI did like for like 3 hours
each. Like I talked to Greta for 2 1/2
hours. I talked to Tayo for like 3 1/2
hours and it's because it's but it's just to confirm that you

(22:31):
guys. Can spend this time together.
Yeah. And also I like need to know
like that my instinct is right. Yeah, right.
Because you, you meet them and you're like, I think you're
right. Yeah.
But then you have to be like OK.Check it out a little.
Exactly. Second date, second date.
You just have to keep pushing onthe date and being like, are we
right about this together? Yeah, about this.
Well, we're not quite right about that, but we know that we

(22:53):
have this other common, you know, so I think it's like
getting to know them, yeah. When you're in the in the
theatre, did you direct plays to?
No, I just. But the writer is more of the
prominent. Yeah, yeah.
Voice in theatre, right? So you're always working with
the director about like how you want the tone or whatever?
Yeah. So it wasn't that different from
what you had done in it, No. I I learned it's not, it's not

(23:15):
that much different than all actually.
Yeah, Yeah. But yeah, I mean, I feel like, I
mean, when you met Kaylee and Jacob, like, did you also feel
like, I think this is the right person or does it take you a
longer courtship? No, no, I just met Kaylee.
I met Demich once, and then I was like, and then I looked at
other people's tapes and stuff, but I always came back to them.
But I learned from when I was casting somewhere.

(23:38):
Elle Fanning, I met her when shewas 11.
And Fred Roos, who helps me, that we've met her and we loved
her, but he's always like, we have to be thorough.
We have to meet everyone. But she's the one to beat, so I
always remember that. So she's our favorite.
And then we met all these girls and everyone else, like, no,
she's they're not L they're not L So I think when you meet
someone you just know, but then there's that kind of
thoroughness of making sure you meet everyone.

(23:59):
But I feel like it's like, yeah,you just get excited.
You see them as that, and we're excited about seeing them in
that part. Oh.
Yeah, it's a. Oh, I want to ask you about
writing because I find that the hardest part.
Do you? Do you when you get do you ever
get stuck or like, do you have rituals around writing or I
think people procrastinate a lot.
Like they're all writers procrastinate, I think.

(24:21):
So are you disciplined about writing?
No. Well, I think that the
discipline I think comes in a different shape, right?
Because I feel like in my discipline, do I like write 5
hours a day? No do.
You have a like that office thatyou go to or do you ride to the?
Kitchen. Kitchen table.
Oh yeah. I've done that.
But now, now that kids, I have to get out.
Yeah, but yeah. Well, I feel like I would say

(24:43):
it's the. I would say it's the hardest
part anyway. And your husband's a writer.
Yeah, he's a writer, so I feel like, but a part of it is like
you're just, I don't know, you just feel like a little piece of
broccoli, you know, on the kitchen counter for most of the
process of writing. Like you're just so useless for
so long. Yeah.

(25:04):
Do you know I'm not thinking of having like an inkling of idea,
but you don't know the rest of it.
And then do you feel like you just force yourself to?
Well, I think that you I feel like I can't start unless I know
how it's going to go and how it ends.
Oh, really? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But that's part of the that's where the procrastination comes
in. It's just walking around and
thinking about it and. Yeah.
And then like just like writing like 3 lines of dialogue and

(25:27):
then calling the day like you. Have to force yourself and you
don't feel like it. Just do something.
Well, I think I feel like I usually find it to be if there's
an assignment, there's an adaptation, there's an
assignment, those I can do. Yeah, me too.
But when you when you have to write your own personal thing.
I think it's a little bit more like you just sit and then you

(25:47):
just like, you just like kind oflike, I don't know.
I I wish that I knew how to describe it in a way that sounds
more like it's awesome. Yeah.
Go. But it's just you're just sit
there and you're just like, well, I clearly don't know how
to do this. Yeah.
Never been able to do it. Yeah.
Was I ever good? Right.
Was I ever able to do it? Yeah.

(26:07):
How do you finish the last script?
I can't remember. Yeah.
Yeah. Right.
And then you just are like a little piece of broccoli just
sitting in the side of the kitchen, just a catching kitchen
counter drying out. And then.
And then eventually you're like,oh, wait, maybe.
That's can add. Yeah, yeah.
I thought sometimes I just like make stuff up because I need
something and then it ends up being part of the story, even

(26:29):
though I feel like it's just some dumb thing that happened to
me. So I put it in because I need
some pages. Well, I think about that when it
comes to like, well, you're talking about the just a dumb
thing that you just kind of worked on.
The part of it where it's like, I think it is kind of like that.
I think we have to allow ourselves to be right, like
allow ourselves to be that and stupid.
Yeah, because I guess your subconscious is part of it at

(26:51):
some point. Do you, did you ever hear about
there's like it was really popular in the 90's, The
Artist's Way, this book that we used to do like Morning Pages.
Yeah, My friend was looking at it again and someone told me to
get it for my daughter. And then I was like, oh, should
we, should we do this like with the Morning Pages?
I haven't done it, but I I wondered if.
It's like a prompt or something.I think it's just the idea that
every morning you write a couplepages without thinking about it

(27:14):
and it's supposed to like, get your creativity flowing.
But I don't know, I mean. I feel like I wonder if that's
for morning people. Yeah, yeah, it's for another.
One are you morning. Person No, I used to write at
night. I stayed up all night writing,
but now I with kids, you I can'tdo that.
So but there's something that there's less pressure at night.
I feel like it's you're not really part of the real working
world. You're this is like a, it makes

(27:34):
it more like a hobby or like A and something's like a freedom
in that. I agree.
I mean, I so do. What's your working hour?
How are your working hours? Actually I.
Don't know, but I used to just stay up all all night writing
and then yeah. So enjoy that while you can.
But with, with having kids, thenI had to figure out like just

(27:55):
getting out of going to the office and and then sitting
there or I, I find it a lot whenI leave.
Like if I go away for a couple days on my own, then I can kind
of just get lost. And it's hard to kind of switch
with being responsible. And yeah, if like when you're in
the mode of a story, you kind ofneed to be lost in it.
So I think. I think so, and then sometimes I
have. To figure it out.
Conveniently. Yeah, yeah.

(28:16):
And you're like, Oh my God, I'm about to walk into something and
I'm already like, I want to go and work on that thing.
Yeah, yeah. When you get obsessed with it,
then it's exciting. If there's a lot of like, not
knowing what you're doing and then you get, then you get
really into something. Totally.
Do you? Are you working?
Are you writing now? Do you know what you're going
to? Do yeah, I mean I am trying to
write but I think it's that's the issue like.
When I'm when you're still talking about this, probably.

(28:38):
Yeah. But the beginning of it, I think
that I think it's like a lot of procrastination, a lot of like
feeling like a broccoli. And then I feel like it gets to
a place where I feel like then Ibecome like a kind of a demon
for that thing. And then I just need like I
usually, it usually takes me like 4 weeks to write a script,
right? Well, that's fast.

(28:59):
It's really fast. But that's because I don't do
anything else for those two fourweeks, right?
Like I cancel all my plans. I don't leave, right.
And I just like, I eat and when I eat, that's when I do emails.
And I mean like, it's like. So you just get obsessed, Yeah.
It just becomes like demonic. So you.
Just kind of walk around and think about something until it
it gels enough that you can go into that mode.

(29:20):
Yeah, I mean, honestly, it's more like I just need to get
this done by the end of the month.
Like sometimes it's just like not even like Eureka.
Sometimes it's like I have a bunch of eurekas.
But more importantly, I want to get it done this month.
I'm no longer interested in, right?
I just want to get it out. Did you have like a few ideas
that you were thinking about before or do you feel, do you
feel pressure after this movie that everyone's excited to see

(29:42):
your next movie? I feel like I didn't.
The pressure is, I feel like howyou see it, because I feel like
the first movie was tremendous amount of pressure too, right,
In a way. Yeah, I guess so, yeah.
Yeah. But I just thought because
people are so love this movie and they're waiting for the next
one. Do you feel?
I don't know. Do you feel more prefer you?

(30:02):
I shouldn't put. I don't wanna say that.
No, not at all. You.
Don't know what you mean, but I think it's like to me, I'm like,
in a way, no, because it has to be good anytime.
Like, I don't think you walk into, you're not gonna walk into
your next movie being like, well, it's not my second one, so
I'm chill. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Like it's always, it's always you're.
Always as good as the thing thatyou just made.
Right. It should be always, you always

(30:23):
want to make something that you don't want to put energy into,
something that you don't feel isthe best version of it.
Yeah. Exactly.
So I don't. So in a way, like I don't think
it's any more of a pressure justbecause in a way I feel like
it's less because at least people know that you know what I
did. Yeah, you know how to do it.
At least you know to yourself for yourself, too.
Exactly. Yeah, I just remember after my
first home, Virgin Suicides, like doing these young director

(30:46):
things, and there was another director who had made it her
first film. And I was like, I don't, I don't
know what I'm going to do next. I don't know what I'm doing.
And like, do you? And she was like, oh, yeah, I
know it all, what I'm doing. I was like, OK, like, I don't
know. I feel like I have to wander
after each thing and just sort of feel like the other one has
to sink in before I know where I'm going next.
Right. I mean, but, but then your

(31:07):
second movie is lost in translation.
You know what I mean? Yeah, isn't it?
Yes, this is. Yeah, yeah.
But I was so like did not know what.
But I always had little inklingsof wanting to do something from
my experiences there so. I mean, I've always I feel like
my answer my like my kind of answer when someone asked me
about the stress around the second film.
I'm always just like, there's somany film makers who whose

(31:30):
second films are amazing and I hope to be one of them.
Yeah, and I think about you, youknow what I mean?
Because yeah, yeah, cuz I'm I'm like, what are you talking
about? Sofia's nobody like the whatever
the second film slump or. Whatever.
Yeah, I'm just like. You know who didn't have one
yourself or more Islam? You know who didn't have one?
Sofia Coppola. So thank.
You. I'm glad I could be it.
But I remember like that moment of like, now, now I'm doing

(31:52):
this. I fought so hard to make my
first movie and then it was like, Oh no, I can do this now
What? Yeah, but well, I'm glad.
Well, I'm excited to me to see your next one.
I. Can't wait to show you the next
one. I can't wait to make it, you
know? Yeah.
I do think that's yeah, no, it'sfun when you have your team and
do you want to keep working? Well, we shouldn't stay with the
same people because. But yeah, now you know, I find

(32:14):
that exciting when you have, I love it people that you have
your team. Yeah, I feel like it's like,
yeah, I think that I want my department head, so you know
what I mean? Like, it's like you just meet
them and then you have an amazing experience working with
them, and then you do it again. Yeah, I just want to do it
again. Yeah.
Do you get itch? Do you feel the itch to go back?
Yeah, it's funny cuz at the end I'm like, I'm never wanna do

(32:36):
this again. And my husband's like you say
that every time. I'm never doing this again.
So now I'm like thinking like I wanna try to not rush into
something else to kinda catch upon life when you because you put
it all aside. But then I get excited about
like certain actors. I'm like, oh, I would love to do
something with them. Like Kirsten, I always want to
find something we can do together.

(32:56):
But she's so amazing. Yeah, yeah.
So, so that part like motivates me and like I'm like my great AD
that I love in Toronto that I was telling you, like, Oh my, I
have such. I had such a great team on
Priscilla that I and I loved working in Toronto.
So I feel like, oh, there's thiswhole set up.
I never, I never used a built sets on stages before.
So that like inspired me now that like you could do anything.

(33:18):
And yeah, so it's always exciting.
And I feel like it sounds not glamorous, but then when I every
time I walked into the cuz we had built sets for past lives.
Really. Yeah, the dorm room.
Yeah, it looks so natural. So yeah, yeah, it's.
Amazing teams, you know the dormroom and the Hessong's room
where they do Skype together cuzwe needed to figure out how to

(33:41):
do a live Skype acting. So you're doing at the same.
Time. So we're doing at the same time.
So smart. So don't you also for the the
state, the tax thing that you have to do like certain
percentage on stage? Yeah, yeah.
Did you shoot in New York? Shoot.
Shot in New York. Yeah.
Shot in New York for 25 days, and then we shot in Korea for 10
days. Wow.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, and in Korea, the set is

(34:02):
even cheaper and faster, you know, so we had, so we had some
set there. We had a filter set there and
built the set in New York. And I remember being like, man,
shooting on set. What even is that?
And then you go in and you're just like, you can move walls.
I know, put camera wherever you want.
And then I kind of, yeah. And you can control everything.

(34:23):
Yeah, I know. It's such a different.
I always thought like, oh, it has to be in a real place to
feel real. Yeah.
But then once you do that, it's like, yeah, you could do
anything. How do you Do you go to Korea
often or have you not been back for a?
Long time. I hadn't big.
I've been back since like 2015. Yeah, yeah, I went back.
I went back to visit my family there, but then I hadn't been.
And then, but also this is the first time I went to Korea to

(34:44):
work. So it's the first time I like
met people in Phil, met people who like work and do things and
that's so cool. I don't know.
It was really cool. You never been.
No. No, you've never been.
No. I really want to go.
You have to go. Yeah.
I want to go to Seoul. Am I proud?
Yeah, I think you should go to Seoul and I think you should go
to Busan if you want to go to Jeju too.

(35:04):
Like I feel like this little island, it's kind of where you
go for honeymoon. It's like Hawaii of and it's
really you just have to, I thinkit, I think you'll, I feel
really like happy and inspired. There.
Cool. That's great.
Yeah. OK.
Yeah, your list before it. I go.
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I don't know.
I mean I feel like everyone always asks me like which part

(35:25):
of the process you like the bestto edit?
What's your favorite? What's your favorite?
It's hard to say cuz they all I think writing the least except
for like when you hit print and you finish a draft then that's
the best. But I think writing is kind of
lonely. Yeah, but I love editing.
I love editing because you have all your stuff and playing
together, but it's fun to be on set up too.

(35:45):
But I think editing, you don't have the the pressure of the
time pressure. You can just play around.
Well, yeah, I mean the my my line producer asked me the
question. Fuck Mary Kill pre production,
production post production Yeah.And my.

(36:06):
No, no. So it's like a you.
You tell them which you would fuck and which you would.
Marry and which you would kill. OK, OK.
But the I thought it was up. To date, no, no, the options are
prep production and post production.
And for me, I would fuck production because it's like so
exciting, right? And then you have a limited
time, but there's so much that can happen.

(36:27):
It's unpredictable. It's a lot of energy from like
the hundreds of people. You don't know what you're going
to get really ups and downs. And then it's just like, it's
all like everybody's like passionate and like we're trying
to figure it out. We're going to do the.
First day. Post production, I would marry.
It's day in and day out. It's like partnership, you know,

(36:49):
and you feel connected to it. And then every day it gets
better, right? And hopefully.
And then sometimes some days it doesn't and then you're grumpy
but and you're annoyed, but alsoyou do it again and it's.
Amazing. Yeah, right.
And then you build on something,you build a life.
Yeah. And pre production I would kill.
Yeah. Mostly because it makes me feel
like stressful. I stressful also.

(37:11):
Like, I think it was especially hard because my first film
because I'm being asked to make these massive binary decisions.
And you've never seen it before.And I'm like, oh wow, that's
going to cost about how much, $200,000, Yeah.
And I have to make a decision tospend that $200,000 right now.
Before you've seen anything. Yeah, you're seeing.
Anything. I don't have even a centimetre

(37:33):
of film. Yeah, right.
But I'm saying like, yeah, let'sdo it.
It's beautiful. It's gonna be beautiful.
Yeah, it's gonna be amazing. That's.
True. I always feel like in prep, I'm
like let's just get started already.
Like it feels like it takes forever, like it's just a
million scheduled meetings. I'm like, let's just do it.
Well, we. Need it though I really think
prep is so. It's like doing homework or
like, yeah, let's just get to it.

(37:54):
But the visual part is fun. Like I love the art department
and the costumes, but the scheduling?
Not so fun. Scheduling not so fun, but also
like, I don't know, I think sometimes I can imagine take get
my, you know, Virgo or organizer.
Oh, yeah, like how you're going to do it.
That is fun when you figure out like, we'll do this there.
And yeah, I'm. Like, well, what if we put this

(38:16):
over here? Yeah.
You know, like, that can feel kind of fun, but.
But I don't like the part of, like, not knowing what the
movie's gonna be, but everybody's looking at you to
believe in it because. Yeah, Yeah, right.
Because, you know, like being a director is like you're, you're
the center of the. Captain of the ship.
Captain. Of the ship.
So you need to be like, we know where the, we know where we're

(38:39):
going. But I do feel like sometimes
will be like. I'm not sure I need a second to
think about it, which I think isgood to know that you can do
that. You don't always have to pretend
like I remember my dad saying that like even he it's like,
wait, I'm not sure I need to think about it.
And I was like, well, if he can say that you don't have to
always pretend like everyone's looking at you.
You don't have to pretend like you know what you're doing all
the time. Like of course, or like us, you
know, like you can think it. You can take a second to think

(39:00):
about it and figure it out. Well, I feel there's such power
in saying like, well, I don't know yet.
Yeah, yeah, it's true. It takes more, takes more
strength. I actually need some help
figuring it out. Yeah, it's so powerful.
Actually, it's true, yeah. Because people want to help,
people want to be part of it, you know?
I think that helps, not being like a macho guy.
I bet you're OK to be like, I don't know, I need help, but
yeah. Oh yeah.
I mean, that was such a such a magical thing.

(39:22):
Just wanna just wanna help you. Just wanna help this you.
Know a lot of people around helping you.
Confused. You know, help me.
Yeah, sorry. Everyone helping you.
It's great. I know.
No, I was thinking, I want to ask you sometime.
We're not filming that. I have an idea for a play, but I
don't, I don't. I just have a concept.
I have a setting, but I don't know.
I haven't. Would have no idea.
Yeah, the rest of it. So the audience is like the

(39:43):
screen and it's a family and allthe dynamics between the family.
Yeah, this movie is a short one act play, but yeah, I don't know
how to. I love that.
Well, actually, you already know.
You already know how it is. It's just more like.
Who? The characters.
Are yeah, like. The and I think I love when the
dynamics are it's like under thesurface and you're saying one
thing but meaning another thing,which I guess you just have to

(40:04):
feel your way through that's. Well, I feel like it's about
like probably about what's away from the room.
Oh, right, What's happening in? Before and after, yeah.
I mean, just like it's in another room, because I feel
like like that's very Chekhovianto me what you're describing cuz
right, Cuz I mean like death andshootings happen outside of the.

(40:25):
Right. What I would say A-frame, which
is the stage, yeah, right. Like outside of it is where all
that all that. So think about what's happening
outside of yeah. And then you can you can conceal
and reveal so. People can come in and.
Easily. Yeah, that's.
Really helpful. I think I never thought about
it. I there's one like a just like
yeah, dynamics with like certainpairs have issues with certain

(40:45):
ones, but yeah, that that real drama is happening outside of.
The well, yeah, I mean, some of the drama can happen there.
And then there's such power and somebody walking into the stage,
which is of course the frame, ifyou got to think about that as a
frame and you can only put a camera in one place.
Right, that's what what's happening.
That's the whole frame, Yeah. So same logic and and just an

(41:06):
actor entering into that space is so much more powerful than.
Because you're like, yeah, Oh yeah.
It's. So amazing.
Everybody's just like and The thing is it's like, you know,
the close up or the focus is happening through blocking.
Yeah, right. Just.
The person stepping, no one's moving.
And one person stepping forward,yeah, that's equivalent of a

(41:29):
close up. Oh yeah, and when I was when I
was doing the stage, I was like,what do you do without a close
up? Because I know a different.
Thing Oh. That's so interesting.
Or they can be like, you can step into the light.
There's so many ways that you can do the close up, they can do
the blocking, and that's cool, Yeah.
I don't want to think about that.
Did you see that play Stereophonic?
No, it was. I saw it at Playwrights Horizon.

(41:50):
Cool. But did you see it this season?
Yeah. But it's it just.
It just closed, but there. It's coming to Broadway in
March. You should go see that.
Yeah. I loved it.
My husband's a musician. And it all takes place in a
recording studio. Yeah.
That's cool. Okay, I'm gonna.
Go use what's happening in the room and then behind the glass.
And it's based on Fleetwood Mac making rumors.

(42:10):
But the way the sound is, I thought it was really cool.
I love that these are singing. Yeah, yeah.
And their voices are incredible.And it sounds really corny
because it's, it's like fake version of 70s Fleetwood Mac
style music. So it sounds like it'd be awful,
but the music's really good. I'm sure it is.
Yeah. Yeah, it was really.
I thought it was. Really.
OK, I'm gonna see it. I don't see that much to do, but

(42:31):
I'd love how they use the space and.
Yeah, it's really. Cool.
Well, I feel like just. I think that's the thing about
blocking, Like blocking. Blocking has to do all the
storytelling. Yeah.
And dialogue. Yeah, and this, the fact that
they had the glass partition, soyou can't hear, you can turn the
sound off and on in the different places.
It was cool, but that's so helpful.
I think it's true. And I think it's also like the
usually the difference that I think about is like the time and

(42:53):
space is so literal in film. Yeah.
So if you want to have an old lady, then you'd cast an old
lady, right? But in theater, you don't have
to do any of that. Like a kid can show up and say,
like, well, I'm 92, right? And the whole audience is going
to leave it, right. Or like, you know, it can be
like, you know, if you want to make a movie outside on Mars,

(43:14):
you have to build Mars, right? Or go to Mars.
But in theater, all you have to do is like, have a rock.
I can sit on a couch like this, right.
Exactly. Not even a rock.
Like just turn the light a little red.
Yeah. Right.
And then just be like, so I got to Mars.
Yeah, Right. And then the whole audience will
come with you to the to Mars. That's.
So. Cool.

(43:35):
So that's the strength of it, I think, yeah.
Yeah, I'm curious because it's so mysterious and unfamiliar to
me, but but it's. I think you love it.
This is true. Thank you.
OK, I'm gonna try to. I think it's really helpful what
you said about the stage. Yeah.
OK, I'm gonna. These are some questions, I
guess, from people. OK.

(43:55):
People wrote in the first one is, is heartbreak necessary for
a great love story? I think so, yeah.
I would say I feel like. I mean, all the great ones have
heartbreak. Yeah, because I feel like at the
end of the day, love stories about, like the stories that
are, I don't know, it's about the biggest drama of our lives.
Yeah, and you need some obstacleor hindrance or else it would be

(44:21):
boring. And all love stories have some
something to overcome. I think so, because otherwise
then you're like, well, what is it worthy of telling the?
Story and heartbreak is just romantic and it touches you in
the deepest way, I think, so I feel like it's essential.
Well, heart is, you know, it's meant to be broken.
That's how you grow. Too.
Yeah, and all the love stories that I love are always have a
tragic side. Did you ever read Spring Snow by

(44:42):
Mishima? Yes, of course, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I love it. OK.
Yeah, You want it. What's a genre you'd like to
pursue more? I always thought it'd be fun to
do science fiction or something that I would not know how to do.
Your science fiction is so bad. OK, cool.
What about you? I wanna do, I want to western.

(45:05):
That'd be cool. Yeah, yeah, I think it'd be
really good to get women in it. I feel like Western I I can't
watch ones that are all guys cuzI get them all mixed.
Up. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But I feel like it's like, but Ithink the position of it, like I
feel like the the much of it andin the way that it gets averted
is always really amazing. And also like, I like stories
about like, just like bravery. Yeah, and it'd be cool.
Yeah. Like American West.

(45:27):
It's such a, of course, tradition.
Well, it's like it's a like to see your Western.
It's also about like fame Western.
I feel like Westerns are. Not same.
Yeah, notoriety, right? Yeah, I.
Think it's really interesting. No, that's cool.
I would love to see your western.
OK. Want to see your sci-fi SO?
Where is your favorite spot to write?

(45:48):
It really is wherever I can. Like it truly is like wherever I
can. I don't have a favorite spot.
I think I like it. I like the plane.
Oh, yeah, Because that's pretty good.
Yeah, I do too. That's a good answer.
What about you? No, I agree about the plane.
And also I think the lack of oxygen makes you feel like what
you're writing is more exciting than it probably is.
Just like watching movies on theplane or like.

(46:08):
Yeah, Yeah, I think that's a good.
All right, if you had to watch one movie scene every day for
the rest of your life, what would it be?
Oh, that's really hard 1 Scene 1.
Scene I don't. Know do you have one?
I'm thinking. I know I have a favorite scene
that I revisit a lot, which is in Barry Lyndon, there's a scene

(46:31):
where Marissa Berenson has like a fur hood on and he's smoking a
cigar and she's blowing the smoke all over her and she's
really annoyed and he has no perception of her all like it
says so much in this one scene. So it's a scene that I revisit a
lot. And I looked at for when I was
shooting a scene with Elvis and Priscilla in the limousine and
they're like disconnected. But it's, it's so, so much and

(46:52):
there's they don't say anything and it's just, yes, that's one
of my favorite scenes. You have a scene that you
revisit from time to time. That you like, You know, I think
that there must be a scene in like, like a Miyazaki film.
Oh, do you know what I mean? Like, I bet the that amazing
scene and house Moving Castle where it's like just as

(47:14):
beautiful feel beyond the door. Yeah, we were just like sitting
there and just live there. I'm like, well, that feels like
heaven to me. Yeah.
So if I had to live, I have to. Live with the scene over and
over. Yeah, over and over.
And I'll just sit there and I'lljust be like, it's like at a
spa, you know? It's amazing.
Did you watch the document? There's one documentary I saw of
him. Yeah, that was.
So good. He's so dour.

(47:35):
Yeah. He's like, I'm sick of this.
And I'm like, me too. Yeah.
And your movies are like a dream.
Yeah, I'm. Bad.
It was good. OK, this one says how do you
call action on your set if you do so like I.
Usually ask ask my AAD to do it.Yeah, that's.
You that's so funny because there was always like a thing
where like you have to say it yourself.

(47:56):
But I, yeah, I don't mind when we're at a big loud thing for my
AD to say it. He's a small, quiet area.
I usually give the AD the go go ahead cuz he's the one who's
checking if everything's speeding and everything.
Yeah, so he knows when to when to start.
Yeah, and don't say it the wrong, I've done it the wrong
time. Just like.
Exciting too. Yeah.
I'm like, we're not ready and I'm saying it.
And I'm just like, well, he knows when we're ready.

(48:18):
Yeah. So he should just say when he
can. Yeah.
Yeah, dude, you don't. You don't mind, I think.
My dad always said like you knowyou have to say actions, they
know that you're the boss and like say it loud and stuff.
So I'm in the habit of saying it, but I but I I'm happy for
the AD 2 if we're outside and it's loud.
Totally. Well, I feel like I know.
You know? They know I'm the boss.

(48:39):
Yeah. You know what I mean?
I'm like, yeah, I don't need to tell them, you know?
They know. Yeah, you know.
Yeah, I guess I do out of habit,but.
Totally. Just for you specifically.
OK. Would you ever consider
directing a horror movie? Oh, yeah, I would.
But. But yeah, I don't, I haven't
thought about it. But when we were when I was a

(48:59):
kid, we would make like little video movies and we made horror
movies because it was just fun to like get blood, blood out.
And like we lived in an old Victorian house.
So it felt very conducive to horror movies.
But I mean, I don't really like gore, but.
I mean, I, I wrote a horror script, but I would get so
spooked by my own because you have to be so scary.

(49:20):
But it has to be scary to me, right?
So I don't know if it's scary toanybody else, but it's really
scary to me. What's the premise?
Can you say? Are you going to tell me after?
So it's a top. Secret.
It's just, no, it's not a top secret.
I probably will never make it because I'll be too scared.
To make I want to see it. I don't like super.
Scary. I don't like what's.
The setting. It's like it's truly like it's
not even wild. It's a good it's a totally

(49:42):
conventional like snowy cabin thing, but like this cabin is
like fucked up, you know, and that's it and it's.
Scary. Something can happen.
It's just so scary. It's like being like, it's like
going there and then like this person acting like they know
you. And then you realize that like,
yeah, I guess you're my cousin. And you just kind of buy it.

(50:03):
And then eventually you oh, and then you're stuck with them.
And then you just realize, I don't think this is my cousin.
To me, that's the scariest thing.
I used to be scared of the body snatchers.
I remember like telling my brother when I was little, like,
let's have a code word so if you're snatched, like, I'll know
it's really you. But that body snatcher is really
scary. It's really scary, like Doppler,
like, yeah, yeah, like really the.

(50:25):
It's like the person. Closest to you taking over?
Yeah. Like, like there's a really
scary, like a like when my childin one of the scariest stories
that I heard in Korea, which is like, it's like, like your mom
starts laughing and then your mom goes like, do I look like
your mom? Oh.
Yeah, that's so. Scary like, and I was too young
and I was like, this is the scariest thing.

(50:46):
Yeah, that is anyway. But that is what movie makes you
cry. Every time there was a time
where I don't know about, I don't know why, but big fish.
What you saw that it's. A Tim Burton film.
Oh yeah, no, I never saw that with.
That you, McGregor. Yeah.

(51:06):
For some reason the ending of that I think that would just
kill me. I never saw that movie, but I
know what Yeah, I. Think you just.
I think you see. But it's about, I don't know.
I think that it's like, I don't know.
I feel like weirdly, children could never make me cry, but old
people could. Yeah, older people could.

(51:27):
Yeah, yeah. What about you?
I don't know, I feel like on a plane any movie will make me cry
but. The Transformers are crying.
Yeah, I know. Anything I know I should I feel
like I'm trying to think I saw Oh I know it's really
embarrassing with my my kids love that movie.

(51:47):
It's called an instant family about like it's like a ROM com
but they adopt some foster children and then like, yeah,
embarrassing playing at the end,but.
Family just is like, you know, it's one of those things that.
You're just like Terms of endurement is the classic if you
want to cry. Of course, who doesn't cry at
that? You know the performance.
Too. Yeah.
Favorite film camera to use? I only used one.

(52:11):
Yeah, it's like, you know, so. It was digital I.
Meant no no, it was odd 35mm. Film.
That's why it looked. Panavision.
Yeah, that's cool. And you shot digital?
I usually should. I always love film, but of
course a little shot digitally. So I, I have a new found.
I was like, wow, you made it look beautiful.
We were, I always like to shoot film if I can, but we were in
such a hurry. So yeah, I was impressed that it

(52:34):
doesn't have that creepy digitalfeeling.
That something it felt I thoughtI was.
I was so sure he was shot on film.
Your film. Thank you.
I just and I think film has a different quality to it, but
that's the magic of Philippe Blissor, my DP.
Like he, he, he yeah, I think itjust depends if because a lot of
times it has like a digital look, but I don't know how how

(52:55):
he. How he went away beautiful
because he really doesn't look digital at all.
Not nothing, but if I like I think some stories.
Sometimes I think it's too digital.
Yeah, I think it's harder with period films, but I liked Zone
of Interest. Felt very crisp and digital to
me. I don't know if it was.
But it was I think. But I liked but it's meant to.
Be, I think, yeah. Because I feel like it depends
on the I. Really it depends on the film.

(53:16):
I think period films you want tobe on film because it's in the
past. The digital feels more immediate
but but that one. Totally.
Isn't acceptable. Yeah, so because.
That's what it was. I mean, I feel like we the part
of the shooting it on film was very much like, well, what do I
know? You know, never made a movie
before, but my DP was talking tome about my about film and I

(53:39):
think that it was a couple things.
I was like, well, I want my DP to have a process that he
believes in. Yeah, right.
Like every day. It's about the look of the whole
film. He.
Wanted to shoot on film, yeah. He wanted to shoot on film and
and we were both talking so well.
As long as we don't like destroythe budget, like we'll do it and
we fall for it. It's so different.

(54:00):
But also on top of that, I feel like the thing that I felt was
like, well, it speaks to the philosophy of the movie, which
is that like it is about like the ephemeral or time tangible,
right? And there's a part of it where
it's like the chemistry of it or, or the, yeah, this.
Little mystery, yeah. Yeah, which I think is like or
uncertainty. You don't know how it's going to
turn out. Yeah, right.

(54:21):
That it spoke to what the movie is.
I think that's how it should. Be yeah, I think, I think it I
think the story depends on what and yeah, I don't know what the
favorite camera usually. Yeah, it's what the DP wants to
use. And I like, I always work with
people that I love and respect. And you want them to guide?
Yeah, how they think totally best.
Well, I feel like it's like my DP should be things and I was

(54:42):
like, I like that, Yeah, you know.
What album do you have on repeatright now?
What album do I feel like I've been listening to?
The Mitski's new album Who? Mitski I.
Don't know who that is. I.
Think you'll like it? Mitski has the new album and I
listen to that on repeat. I listen to Hozier this new

(55:03):
album on repeat like. I listen to.
I don't think I know anything new.
What do you? Listen to.
I don't know what you're listening to.
No. This morning I was listening to
Chet Baker. Let's Get lost, because it's
winter and we're home and it doesn't make sense.
So morning. Yeah, also.
But yeah, I don't have one that I'm over and over listening to.
Yeah. Well, I feel like when like a
new album comes out and I like the whole album, I just like to

(55:27):
listen to it. I like the I feel like my kids
don't listen to albums, they just listen to playlist some
different songs. But I like like listening to a
whole album. Me too, getting into the whole
well. Depends on the musician.
Because I saw musicians. I'm like, I feel like this whole
album, all the songs are similaridea.
Yeah. But then when there is like a
bit of storytelling or there's like a clearly like ebb and flow

(55:48):
and like, you want this beat to come home.
Yeah, it's a whole thing. You listen to the.
Whole thing yeah I know your husband is a musician like does
does he recommend or is it kind of a thing where it's like
intentionally it means it's likehe recommends less you know what
I. Mean Oh no, I feel like, I feel
bags. I'm always like asking to put
music on like, so it's like living with the music supervisor

(56:09):
all the time. Like like for this occasion,
like we make a playlist for cocktail party or whatever.
So it's yeah, it's fun because Ilove music.
So it's fun to be with someone that knows a lot about music and
has good taste. I like their taste.
Yeah, I feel like and. Helps me with my soundtracks and
yeah. That's amazing though.
What? Did you prefer?

(56:30):
I can't remember the music? Did you have a score?
I did Chris Bear and Dan Rossen from Grizzly Bear.
They scored it. Did you just like their music
and asked them to do? It I love their music, but I
feel like it was also the conversation that I had with
them because of course one levelI'm like, you know, like, you
know, I'm 35. I'm like, genuinely like,

(56:53):
they're like gods to me, right? Grizzly bears, just like, that's
my, they're the 1. So it was on one level I was
just like, fangirling. Yeah.
But on the other level, I also was like having to really have a
conversation because of course you're like, well, do they wanna
be a part of a process where they're not crafting an album?

(57:14):
Right, Right. It's exciting to them, I.
Think it was. But just you have to tell them
if you don't like something. Was that?
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it was, I mean, you know,
because again, you know, everybody knows I'm the boss.
You know, I have to be like, sadly, I'm the boss.
And I and I, it's not an album. It's a movie.
Yeah. And I have.
We have to work on it together, Yeah.
I remember I liked the music, but I can't remember.

(57:35):
Yeah, outside of that, which is good.
I think that it supported the story.
Of course. Well, I think that's what I you
really want them more than anything.
And you? Don't want it to be like you
want to be thinking about it. No, and also you don't want it
to, you don't want it to lead the audience.
Yeah, I hate when scores are like really dramatic, telling
you how to feel. It really bugs.
Me, because my thing is like, then I think that the audience
shuts down because I as an audience member shut down.

(57:56):
Yeah, I mean, stop telling me what I'm supposed to be.
I know. And I think so.
I feel like it's like you kind of want the emotion to get
there, arrive, and then you wantthe music to start.
Yeah, right. Kind of support that to.
Support that to fully let them give them permission.
Yeah, but I don't think that it's a thing where it's like if
music it's literally a timing oflike is it 6 more frames or

(58:18):
later or earlier right. And you're like.
It makes a big difference. Makes a.
Huge difference and the and I think if you give audience room
to feel it for themselves and then you give them permission
with score as opposed to like time to cry.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. No.
I like when it has a goosebump. I like when it has a goosebump
effect, which is usually like after yes or something.

(58:41):
Yeah, yeah. But yeah, yeah, I know.
I hate when it's I. Know, and I'm so sensitive to
it, yeah. So like, yeah.
I wanna ask you something off camera after about that, about a
movie. I can cut it.
Out totally the did you how did you enjoy the sound design
process cuz I found. It how did you find it?

(59:02):
Cuz I actually found it so intense for me.
Like I was really obsessive. That's the only part where I
think, yeah. Yeah, I guess.
I don't know. I've just always, I've always
loved that part because it's like all of a sudden it becomes
a movie. Like it wasn't, it was a mess
and it just makes such a huge difference.
I think I luckily have a family friend who's like an uncle who

(59:25):
helped me with my first short film and then I always worked
with him, but he retired recently.
So it's the first time without him.
And I was like, oh, no, I can't.Like so I don't think about just
trust him so much, but I don't know.
I learned so much that Richard Bags was a legendary sound guy.
I remember on Virgin Suicides, he there's a scene where the
priest comes to visit them and he gave him a squeaky shoe when
he walks up the the stairs. All these details that now, like

(59:48):
I think about all the details you can add with the sound.
And yeah, I love that process, but it's still mysterious to me
because it's not visual, but it's a little abstract.
But I just think even like on Priscilla, like it was like when
the sound doesn't happen, then like all of a sudden the movie
came together and it felt like amovie where before it was just
like a bunch of scenes stuck together.

(01:00:09):
And it's really as a huge. Music as well.
I mean my director's cut. I feel like I spend more time
even the director's cut before we do any of the sound.
Yeah. I feel like I'm so obsessive
about sound then temp, Like I feel like I get obsessed with
temp. Yeah.
Because I'm like, yeah, but people have to see it.
Yeah. And I don't want to sound.

(01:00:30):
Yeah. Too crazy, right?
Yeah. And then of course, you go.
And then I feel like in the sound design, like I was, I
learned. I was asking like about.
I'm asking about the process because I'm like, I was in that
room for like 14 hours. Yeah, every day.
And you know what I mean. Yeah, it's really, Yeah.
You can think of that like that when you make a movie.

(01:00:51):
Yeah, I guess I, I don't know ifI spend that much on them
because I I kind of let them do their thing and then I review
it. But but my editor, Sarah Flock,
who's great, is really good withthe temp sound like she's really
meticulous. It makes a huge difference of
all the the timing of all of that.
So I think it's something. But I I love that moment when
you see it with the first because it's like, it's, it's

(01:01:13):
not terrible. Like it, like it somehow it
totally magically comes. It's the movie.
Yeah. It becomes a.
Movie, it's really good. It's.
Hard to know. What Don't you think it's hard
to know when you're done editing?
Did you just run out of time andmoney?
No, I think I, I think it is. It was like, I'm sick of your Oh
yeah, you're like, it's done. To me, I was like, I could tell
I'm like, I think we're good or like I think we're good after

(01:01:34):
this. Yeah.
Right after this one little thing.
Yeah, but I think it's because of the way that I was a writer
for the longest time, right? Yeah, cuz I mean I feel like
knowing when to. Stop.
Yeah. Is like part of the job?
Yeah. So it's similarly with the
editing. I was like, it's very like, I
know we're done after this. If I do more, we're gonna start

(01:01:55):
cutting into the things that aregood too.
So I think that. But sound design, I think is a
part where I didn't know when tostop.
Yeah. My sound designer He his
nickname for me was not Miss Dogyears because I would just find
it. Every detail I just.
I just would find, I think I would just I'm driving towards a

(01:02:20):
perfection there that is not going to be achieved.
Yeah, right, because unless I have a million years, Yeah,
right. Because also, like, I hope it's
not just me, but I just think that like the sound, it's so
subjective. Yeah.
So the same like volume hasn't. Changed.
But I listened to it the first time and I was like, it's too

(01:02:42):
loud. Yeah, it's, it's weird how it's
like, it's weird how you trust your your impression and it's
it. Yeah, after a while that's
scary. No, it seems these are too.
Yeah. You made me scared because I was
like, I thought this whole scenewas so loud.
Yeah. And now that I hear it and no
adjustment has been made. It sounds fun.
It sounds different. Yeah.

(01:03:02):
I feel like that's where you relate, rely on your team, team
that you trust them because like, that's what they're
totally focused on. So that helps.
But yeah, it does. It is abstract and a strange
part of it. It is.
Well, it's also like, and I think you're right.
It's like when it sounds good, like yeah, I still, all I hear
is like imperfections, right? Yeah, but like, but I think it's

(01:03:28):
like, but you have to like. There's a part of where you just
have to let. Go, yeah, it's true, there's 11
little thing. You have to tweak it or else
it's going to bug you. But yeah, that is a weird part
of it. I've blocked this all out.
I've forgotten, I forget all. I think it's like you have to
forget it all or else it seems to be daunting.
Oh yeah. Like it's like going into
writing a script I'd never, I forget about like all the

(01:03:49):
different steps you have to go through.
Yeah, you're just like, why? Yeah, I feel like a brand new,
you know, I totally get it. Yeah, like you just have to
write a script and then figure out the rest later.
Of course. I think it's, it's one thing to
be naive and less experienced because it's like you don't, but
we're like when you're doing it for the first time, you don't
know all the steps. And now it's like, but I think

(01:04:10):
you forget it all and it's always, it's always just some
kind of discovery. Well, I think that's so amazing
though. So there's this word, there's
this word in Korean that's Cho Shim.
And it's like Cho is 1st and Shima's heart.
So it's about first heart and they talk about it.
And it's mainly the thing that people talk about in creative

(01:04:34):
settings and it's about how you have to go back to tuition as in
your first. Intuition.
Yeah. It's like your first heart.
So it's like it's less intuition.
It's a little bit more like whatyou're talking about, like.
Your first impression? You've forgotten.
Everything. And you're kind of starting like
with the same heart. Oh.
Yeah, like a fresh heart, a first.
Heart yeah like so you kind of every time you when you're

(01:04:56):
making your next movie or what I'm sure when you're making
Priscilla it's like there's a part of it where you're holding
onto the side of it that was working on virgin suicides yeah
yeah right you're like they're like I don't know how I don't
know how this is going to go or like the.
Mystery, I think. Yeah.
Yeah, The mystery of it. Yeah.
That's a good word. How do you say that, Choshi?
And it means first heart, First heart.

(01:05:17):
And I think about it a lot because I feel like even when
you're asking about like, what do you think about the second
film or, you know, hopefully like, like you like, you know,
so many films. I think when you're there, I
think the feeling has to always be like, well, I have to hold on
to the first part of it because you can't do you know what I
mean? Because you can't just like,

(01:05:41):
think about. I don't know.
You cannot build it on the thingthat you already made, because
you're it's always. You're always starting over
because it has to be you. You're always starting over.
Yeah, I think that's what my dad's in his 80s and he's like,
so excited about this movie he'sworking on and like, it's
amazing. Yeah.
So it's, it's, I feel like you're, yeah, you're always,
you're always starting over. You're always starting.
Over which makes it exciting. I think that's, but I think

(01:06:03):
that's what makes you feel a lie.
Yeah, you know, and also it makes your work feel alive too.
Definitely. Yeah.
So it's not like. Same old like.
The thing I've done, you know, cuz I think they'll make me so
sad if I'm ever there, if I'm 80, you know what I mean?
And I'm just like, how many times have I made this movie?
You know, you kind of want to belike.

(01:06:24):
Look at me as Aki. Yeah, yeah, I know.
It's fun. I sometimes always feel like I'm
doing the same story over and over again, that you're always
trying to figure something out. But I feel like doing the same
story. I think that's just naturally.
Yeah. Like, it's like a it's like, you
know, like Tennessee Williams. Yeah.
They're all different plays. Yeah.
It's all about her sister. Yeah, right.
We all have our obsession. Oh, yeah, like Arthur Miller,

(01:06:45):
it's all about, I guess, MarilynMonroe.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think it's all about but it's,
but it's, they're all different plays, but they are, you know.
Did you study playwriting? Yeah, I went to, I got an MFA,
Columbia. Yeah, I'm an MFA for playwriting
at Columbia. Did you really meet your husband
at a writing retreat like in themovie I?

(01:07:06):
Figured. Edward Albee Foundation.
Yeah, Yeah. So Edward Albee has a.
Really. Yeah.
Do have you been? No where is.
It it's like it's in Montauk. Really.
Yeah. That's so cool.
It's really cool and it's like screenwriters.
Go too. You can, yeah.
So I. Didn't know about that, but I
saw, I saw a play, a play of histhat they redid at Horizons

(01:07:28):
with. I was like the wife kept walking
in and out of the room. Yeah, it's not, it's not for
genuine. It's not.
It's a really famous one, but it's.
Three tall women, no. I've seen that right.
Yeah, yeah, I think it's three tall women.
Yeah, no, it wasn't that one. I forgot what it was called.
Anyway, I'll try to remember, but anyway, yeah, yeah, yeah,
that's it. But it's like, well, he and I

(01:07:50):
knew him when he was alive and he came, he used to come to the
barn. So me and my husband, we met him
there. So cool.
It was really cool. Totally magical.
Wow, that's so cool. And then, yeah, I feel like it's
like it is this barn that he bought and then he just used to
just bring his friends over, like Spalding Gray was there.

(01:08:10):
Like, wow, it's really. And now it's playwrights.
Yeah, retreat. It's like artist retreat, and
they can go if you're a painter.You can go if you're a
photographer. Oh wow.
That's so cool, but. There are a lot of those.
They've been to McDowell. No, I've never been to those,
but I'm going to the Rome Academy in June and and I always

(01:08:31):
thought that would be fun. You and her husband go live in
Rome for a year. Yeah, I've I've artist the
painter fronts that have done it.
And I just thought I have a fantasy that I'll go.
To you're gonna do for a year. No, I'm not doing the residency.
I'm just going to, I'm going to like an event they're doing.
But a friend that's a sculptor. We were like, let's both go for
a year and live in Rome and makeart.

(01:08:52):
But sometimes easy. You guys could do that?
Yeah, yeah. You check out the Rome Academy.
Check it out. We'll check it out.
I feel like I've been to a lot of a lot of these artist
residency. So they're usually pretty.
They are pretty productive, I find.
Yeah, it's cool. Because you're with other people
all making. Stuff, yeah.
At dinner you meet everyone and then like.
But they're different. They're not all writers.
No, that's so fun. Just a composer, someone just

(01:09:14):
choreographer. Like, it's kind of like a really
like summer camp. It's like summer camp, Yeah.
That sounds cool. I'm gonna look into that.
I think you should. I have a friend that used to go
to Yado. Yeah, Yado's haunted.
Oh, really? Yeah, famously.
Oh really? Do you know who the ghost is?
Is it like a writer? I think it's like, well, Yado is
like how this little girl, very ghostly.

(01:09:38):
Yeah, conversation. But there's that little girl who
was the daughter who died, and she used to call the whole place
Yatto because she's trying to say shadow.
Oh. That's what's called yatto.
He's called like a. Yatto and this is so wild.
I mean, but I think just like our most haunted places, it's
it's one of the most productive residences I've been to.

(01:10:00):
It's a funny way. Like there is a room where it's
like they're like there was a room where Chima Capote was
working on something. I feel like maybe in cold blood
even. But.
And then he, I think he was like1000% haunted.
Like everybody's just. Oh, really?
Yeah. And there's a.
It's good to write a ghost story.
There it. Really is you can do.
I think you. I think it's one of the most

(01:10:21):
productive. That's so cool.
Yeah, I think I think haunted places are really productive.
Good. To know, yeah, my, my friend who
went as a writer, she said they would just, like, leave a little
basket with your food and you just have to think about
anything. I'm like, yeah, I can check.
Yeah. It's really.
Nice. But McDowell is the kind of the
I think that was the that's the best one.
Where's that? For me, it's like it's all kind

(01:10:43):
of like upstate New York or, or like a state nearby New York.
Yeah. And that place I feel like my
favorite part is the the food. Oh, OK.
McDowell is the. Food that's like, that's.
Important because like the chefscome in residency and they just
like it's. So cool, I had never thought.
I always just like go to a hotelfor when I need to finish
writing something. I mean I need to.
That's nice though. I'm.

(01:11:03):
Like I need to, I need to apply to some like the camaraderie
too, the. Oh, yeah.
And you just meet people that you wouldn't have met.
Yeah. Right.
Just like, like, like a painter from Texas and you're like, I
would never have met you. Yeah, That's cool if it wasn't
for this. Yeah.