November 25, 2025 • 36 mins
Topics covered include: Getting comfortable in the chaos, moments of brevity, John writing his directorial debut on set of Eternity, double-fisting at TIFF, attending Interlochen at the exact same time, training in opera, Da’Vine’s stint as a camp counselor for child prodigies, ill-informed southern accents for The Laramie Project, witnessing the greatness of Audra McDonald in Gypsy, a shared love of Company, John’s huge plans for Da’Vine’s career, vocal tics, Da’Vine losing her voice on Broadway after she got nominated for a Tony, choosing to be the clown, and the great problem with contemporary musicals.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
This is John Early and. Devine Jay Randolph.
And we're in my house, Devine. Hello my friend.
No Devine joy or Devine. So my government is Devine Joy.
OK. But I feel like that's a lot
like every day just to be like Devine Joy.
Yeah. So I just like just call.
Me, David. It's only three syllables.
But it just feels like, you know.
(00:20):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do your friends call you Devine
Joy or? Devine No, because that's what I
mean. I feel like that's extra OK.
OK, well, hello, Devine. Hello, this is my house.
Oh my God. Yeah, we're really excited.
We just got. Evergreens.
We just got these in me and Mark.
There's no I made them up. Top tier, yeah.
I want to congratulate you on the colours you're wearing.
(00:44):
Thank you. They're both true to you, but
also true to the movie Eternity.Age 24 is Eternity.
How have you been? I've actually been good.
Good. I've been really good.
Nice, it's. Been, you know.
Do you know why? I think it's because I've had a
little bit of time off that like, you know, we get so like
(01:07):
wrapped up in it. I was just talking about this
the other day of like, I feel like we get comfortable in the
chaos and the Batty schedule in a weird way that makes us think
like, oh, I'm successful. I'm doing it.
And so when I do have the off chance of having moments of
brevity, it's like, you know, when you go to the country, at
(01:27):
least for me, I grew up in the city.
So like if you go to the countryand you're like, what is that
loud sound? And somebody's like, it's
silence. Do you know what I meant?
Yes, it's shocked. When I have those moments of
brevity, it takes me a couple ofdays.
If it was very uncomfortable andI'm like, I'm not doing enough
and I'm failing, whatever, and then I like it takes me a while.
(01:48):
Like I would probably need to goon a vacation for like 2-3 weeks
'cause week 1 is shot. Yeah, you're like, yeah.
You could be doing something whose towels can I fold?
You know what I mean? So it it's been nice to like
settling. We need, I think we need those
breaks, don't you think? Because I actually think that's
like what then refuels us? But also like creative wise,
(02:11):
like do you find that you're more creative when you get to
have a breath or do you find yourself more creative in the
midst? Because I heard a rumor which I
think is true. It better not be about my
sexuality. I told you we weren't going to
talk about that today, but in regards to you were writing your
(02:33):
script while we were filming in your trailer for a movie that is
now into Film Festival. So you're double fisting at the
Tim Festival? Well, I love fisting, and you
know that. I know, that's why I gave that
reference to lead you right there.
I, I, it's for me, it's both. I mean, you there for this movie
(02:55):
that I was writing in particular, yeah.
I needed a degree of like blindness that you can only get
through, like speed. Like it's kind of, it's a very
wild premise and it's like. And so I just, I I was like,
there was kind of something built in from the beginning
where I was like, I just want togo fast and see what happens if
I go fast. And I was like, I have a feeling
(03:16):
that if I slow down, I'll be like, what are you doing?
And I'm so the whole the whole purpose of that movie.
Maddie's Secret coming soon to atheatre near you.
There's no. Distribution yet?
Better watch it Google get distributed.
Thank you. Absolutely.
But like I, I was like, I'm going to just like drive fast
and see what happens and like. Yeah.
(03:38):
Do you do that in in? Was that your first time
applying that process or technique?
Kind of, I mean, but normally I am more like go to the woods and
like let it emerge. Even for your comedy.
I don't know how my comedy comestogether if I have to, I have to
be honest with you. It's it's like comedy comes
(03:59):
together through like years of like being like going to do sets
and like kind of having a gun toyour head and be like, I need
something new. You know, it's not, I think
like, but like more narrative stuff, like movies, I feel like
has to come from like some time in the woods where you can like
let it kind of bubble up, you know, But I so it's both.
(04:22):
What about you? I kind of like the idea of I I
hate having the script in my hand.
And so some I mean, it's you know, right, it's different
project to project, but in general I hate to me that's like
duh, that's necessary. Just do it.
Just get off book so that now you can get I it makes me feel
(04:45):
blocked, right. So that needs to happen for me
first so that then I can memorize yeah, so I can then
feel free. I like to, I always describe it
of like you can put boundaries or like guard.
It's like bowling, right? You can put those little rails
up. But I want the rails to be like
5 lanes long. Does that make sense?
I don't want it narrow. I want a big playground and
(05:07):
right and there's a safety of meknowing somewhere there's rails
to like keep me in here, but it's not tight.
But I need to like, bang againstthe walls.
And the rails for you are the memorization.
No, I mean like I like to do thethe work ahead of time in a
sense of like, OK, get off book done that.
(05:29):
Then I like to really get to if I didn't do this, I think I
would have been like a psych in psychology or something.
Like I'm really, really into human behavior and like I'm just
fascinated by why people do the things they do and like the
rationale that they make up in their head and it's legit to
them, to someone else. It's like you are off your
rocker. But I'm fascinated how people
(05:52):
brains tick. And so that's the part that I
like, indulge and have fun with.Yeah.
Once that's been done, I'm like,OK, they're in me.
Yes. When we now come to set to film,
you could tell me that my character now is going to space
and I'm like bet right, because they're locked in the essence
(06:13):
and the persona and the them is in me.
So it makes me then feel free, right?
Of like I know who she is, yes. Right.
Well, in the alternative, which is so dangerous and I feel like
sometimes I fall into this trap is like, if you don't, if you
like, if you don't do all that work beforehand and you, and
(06:36):
then you come to set and you've like kind of manically done the
work like 5 minutes before, thenyour performance becomes like a
book report. You'd become like a good
student. You're like, I did the work.
You're like trying to show how you.
Did that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Versus what you're doing is justletting go that?
Still happens to me though sometimes because right?
Like we'll get to set and they might completely change things
or they've now come up with thisamazing idea that your character
(06:59):
is something completely different.
Or it might be, you know, something that's very the needs
to be very technical at this point.
Like they might chill out. We actually just need you to
stand here and say this thing, right?
And so, yeah, I can understand that, but.
But that's the to me, that's thedanger of not going to the woods
like and not like chilling. That's your woods.
Yeah, like if you work into manic or like caffeinated of a
(07:22):
way, then when it really counts,when the camera's rolling,
sometimes you get a little like,I don't know, I'm, I'm like, I'm
like. Yeah, a prepare, Nick.
Yeah. Prepare.
I get it, you know. But you, I have to say, working
with you on Eternity, coming soon to a theater.
You better go see it. You better.
They have not asked us to do this, but it was like.
It's OK man, we're doing it. I'm I'm you better.
(07:46):
It affects my money. OK, yes, come see the fucking
movie. I don't like curse.
I want to try to curse less, youknow what I mean?
But it's who you are, OK? I think you'd be less like.
I think you'd be more boring. If I didn't curse.
Yes, well, you are, and you do it well to curse.
Well, yeah, so trippingly off the tongue.
Trippingly off the tongue. Is a It's a gift.
(08:09):
We've opened the door. I know, OK.
We've opened a huge door, which is acting school.
I know. OK.
So I want to know. I want to know about you.
We've talked about this a littlebit on set.
Yeah, because people should knowthere are three NYU students in
this movie and one yelling, and I don't know where Callum went.
I'm going to say RADA. Let's just keep it League.
(08:31):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Ivy Leagueies.
Yeah. Wait, did we talk about
interlocking? You went to.
Interlocking. I went to interlocking.
We did not talk about that. I I did a little talk about
manic preparation. I went to interlocking does the.
Name just make you like literally my eyes are starting
to water up. So did you do the Academy or the
camp? Did the camp.
They then said that was my junior summer.
(08:52):
They then said come to the school.
My mom said yeah, right. Me.
Too bring your butt home right now.
Me too and I was like mom please.
This is this is the exact same junior year and I got into the
Academy and I was like, well, here we go.
It started I'm a start. Center stage, here we fucking
go. And then my mom, my mom was like
(09:15):
devastated. Yeah, I understand.
It was our last year. She was going to lose me a year
early. Yeah, and I get that now.
And I'm glad I stayed in Nashville.
I know, but I felt the same way.But it was like it was such a
dream, that place. Truly, I've never experienced
anything. Anything like it?
I loved it so much maybe oh 'cause I was OK.
So like while in college I went back to be a camp counselor.
(09:41):
Get it for the four year olds. That's so sweet, little.
Korean prodigies literally in the bed with me because they
were like their parents shipped them off.
That's crazy to. Come in the middle of the.
Woods, you were the a counselor in a cabin.
Yes, that's wild. For the little, little babies,
that's. So sweet, so you loved it that
(10:02):
much. You had to be back.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I need to hear the song do do do
do do see. It gets you those that know it.
Literally. I literally could cry you saying
that. It's crazy.
I never it's actually been it's.Relatable.
I just want to check in real quick.
It it No, I've people who have gone there say that it is.
(10:27):
There's nothing in comparison. I do think it's relatable
because I think I don't know about you, but for me, I didn't.
I knew I had a gift in this genre of art like arts and
whether it's singing, I didn't know acting yet.
It was just strictly singing music.
It was. It was opera.
Yeah, I was in the classical voice department.
Wow, yeah, that is so cool. Yeah, 'cause I always felt as a
(10:50):
theatre person, I do feel a little bit like the kind of
like. You guys like the wild one The.
Clowns. Yeah.
You feel like the kind of Yeah do well.
Vagabonds. And like everyone else there was
like. Yes, they're like. 10 and
they're like. Very focused, yeah, I can get
that. But I it, it started my identity
as an artist. Yeah.
And write like the respect and the the dedication and the, that
(11:14):
place for sure taught me discipline me too.
So I'm forever grateful to that place because I've never
experienced anything like it. That was the first time I was
like, oh, like people, you can take it seriously.
You're allowed to take it seriously and not feel like.
Weird about it, yeah. It was so thrilling.
We did the Laramie project. Wait a minute.
(11:38):
What? Did we go at the same time?
We'll talk about this later, no?Do you remember production Larry
projects? Yeah, yeah, OK.
Unless they do this like every five years.
I don't think they do. I mean, it's a it's a smart one.
It's a big ensemble heavy subject matter.
But one one of my favorite memories from the Laramie
(12:00):
project is like, you know, it's set in Wyoming, famously
Laramie, WY, rural Wyoming, but we were like, we literally all
could not stop doing southern accents because it's like, you
know, people who live on farms. We're like, we were out there
back and the director was like, OK, they're not in the South.
(12:22):
Oh my God. And we could not curb the
accident. It was.
So. But wait.
What I have to know now, what was the musical?
The musical was Babes in Arms, the Rogers and Hart music.
We were there at the same time. This is huge.
Toby Brahms. From the musical theater
(12:44):
apartment, yes, I'm looking for West.
And West, I'm gonna cry. Stop it.
This is crazy. I'm.
Gonna cry. See, this is the connection.
Yes, this is crazy. We.
Were in each others energy. And we probably were the
cafeteria together. Yeah, for sure.
Yeah, that's beautiful. I did a musical with my friends
(13:04):
there. We made a musical called
Interlocking Dreams. I have to see it.
And we like, performed it in thelibrary.
And I played a kid named Ben Dover, who was closeted.
Honey, let me tell you, there was a lot of that.
It was a very transformative. Yeah.
That was a big summer for a lot of people.
(13:26):
I'm not going to get into details, but let's just say I
was rocked, Yes, Yeah. You guys, the the boys side
definitely had way more fun thanwe did it.
It brought in a new era for manyof you gents.
It really and I was very happy for all of you.
Thank you. Thank.
You. You deserved it.
It's time. But then opera.
(13:48):
This is my curiosity because youwere doing like classical music
at Interlochen and beyond where you like was part of you like
did there, did it feel like there were like limits on like
an acting level to opera? Like what?
Pulled you into. I got into interlocking off of a
dare because there was this likesnobby girl at my school, a
newbie that came and was like, Iwent to interlocking and I said,
(14:11):
yo, I don't know what this is, but I don't like her tone.
I'm applying right, Just becauseI'm competitive.
Got there and I was like, whoa, this is really, really cool,
right, Like you can make a living.
This is it. Well, I don't know about living,
but you know what I mean. This is a thing.
You can take it serious. This is whatever the at
interlocking. It was the sense of play, maybe
because like the theatre department was like around and
(14:34):
stuff and you're like intermingling with all these
people. It wasn't necessarily told to us
like, you can act too while doing this, but it was like, you
know, move around and, you know,I mean, being your body kind of
a thing. And then when I went to college,
it was like, no acting. Just stand there.
Yeah. Stand there.
(14:54):
Look pretty. That is it.
Like you're like a concert singer.
Yeah, but you're doing an opera and we're doing Aida, and you're
being buried alive with your white boyfriend.
And they're like and they're like, don't act.
Yeah, and now it wasn't that I wanted to act, but that just
felt. Strange.
Felt very stiff and cold and I was like I don't.
No, obviously that's not true ofall opera.
(15:14):
I mean, there's probably some. Now it it's well, right, So back
in the day, right, If you look at old videos, epic extreme
acting like on a Grecian level, right?
And then it stopped. And growing up, at least with my
education, they were not about it.
And now opera is getting a little avant-garde ish and like
(15:36):
real weird. Like on the other side of the.
Pendulum and Nicole Opera. And you're like, whoa, OK.
Now, would you? Is there a part of you that
would? I mean, Can you imagine the
career shift? Can I just quickly be your
manager? You won an Oscar.
Imagine you suddenly are like, I'll see you at the Met bitch,
(15:56):
and you're doing. Oh, can I tell you I just
recently came back from going toFlorence and in Florence, but
Italy in general. But Florence, like their St.
performers, yeah, are casual opera singers that can blow.
I cried. Yeah.
And I was like, this is funny because this literally just
happened, like, days ago. Yeah.
(16:17):
And I was like. OK, you missed it a little.
Bit you you need to tap back into it.
Yeah, you need to tap back into it so.
I'm so excited. I don't know how.
Yeah. I've thought about, like, doing
it of a way of merging the two, like portraying an opera singer,
like in a biopic or something. Oh, God.
OK, I know, I know. But I'm nervous but excited but
(16:37):
very curious of like how that will work because as a musician
that is a whole nother side of my brain and I think because of
interlocking, but in a good way.I'm very regimented.
So I'm nervous because all like because I came to acting by this
like happy accident. I'm like very free because I was
(17:01):
like, well, I don't know, like, you know, I mean, let's just try
it. Like I'm sure you have people
like especially at Yale, there were people were very like this
is acting and Stanislavski says and Ruda Hagen told me and I'm
like, who's oops, Stan said whatyou didn't make like I didn't
know anything. I.
Wish I had that. So I was loose but like.
Oh, I didn't know anything, but I was so good student who was
(17:23):
so. But those programs make you know
what I mean? Like of course.
Inspire that. Yeah, and so I'm nervous because
I'm that with music, right. So like, but I think people have
like Cynthia Revo or like AudreyMcDonald where they blend the
two. I I could not get a chance to
(17:45):
see it and I am gutted. I'm really upset because when I
but I did see that clip, yeah, I'm literally getting chills
right now. She tore talk about acting and
music. Like what I was really what I
thought was so cool about her performance was I was like, it
actually didn't feel like the thing that Gypsy off or can be.
(18:06):
Well first of all you should just do Gypsy in like 20 years.
You know, it's funny, there was talks about it when because they
didn't like really want it to close and there was talks about
and I was, but it literally was like, could you do it in two
weeks? And I was like, are you out of
your mind? No God.
This is crazy. OK, So what I thought was so
cool, and this will bring us back to other things is like it.
(18:27):
It really was as opposed to it just being a performance about a
performance, which that role canso easily be where it's like,
here we go, the grand Dom of musical theater.
Like it's let's let's all applaud for the diva, which that
of course, is what's going on nomatter what.
And that's the heaven of seeing it live.
Absolutely. As an audience member, your role
is so clear. You.
Just need to go, yeah, you know.Yeah, and I and I like leapt
(18:50):
tonight if you. Know.
Sure, sure. Sure, but like she act, it
didn't feel like that was like the subtext of the performance.
It was just like, I was like, oh, she has literally like she
studied someone in her life who's like manic depressive,
like whatever the right clinicalterm is.
Like she is like watch someone or she knows I was like she
(19:11):
knows someone. Like this.
And I also wonder, do you think that maybe her working on Billie
Holiday before that set her up? I thought of that, right.
I loved how she wasn't afraid tosound ugly.
Yeah, I love you. Because the emotion right is in
the cracks and the vocal brakes.Yeah.
And she, yes. And for those who don't know,
she's a classical soprano voice typically.
(19:33):
But no, she was. Beautiful, pretty voice and she
just let it. Off.
It was so cool. Hang out and raw.
But wait, so musical. So wait, here's my question to
you do. You I just sneak interlocking
quick thing. I used to sneak in their
rehearsals. The musical theatre.
Yeah. So that's it.
Maybe there was something like calling me because it was like,
I loved classical. Yeah, but I would literally
(19:55):
like. Sneak in.
I worshipped them because I was like, I can't believe like this.
Musical theatre, like acting is like just pure acting is like
obviously just a little more mercurial.
It's kind of harder to say, well, that person's got it and
that person doesn't like musicaltheatre.
The fact that there is kind of ametric of like.
Singing and dancing, you know, although I would love for us to,
(20:19):
I would love for us to have morelike Elaine Stritches in the
world, Yes, where it's like, notabout athletic.
Singing when I get old, yeah, I I go into transition into that
category. Yes, that would be really fun
for me. I have, I literally have huge
plans for your career. We will talk afterwards.
OK, we'll talk. But OK, so wait.
But do you, now that you've doneso much like film acting, Do
(20:41):
you? It's OK if you don't want to
answer this 100%, do you keep upyour voice?
I don't. And it is so well, listen, I
think if you're a musical person, there's always a tune in
your heart. I'm always like, even out of
nerves, This is funny. If I have a tense conversation,
let's say I like talk with my agent or whoever, right?
And I'm like when I didn't know.I do this as a tick when I hang
(21:05):
up on the phone after a tense conversation.
I'm like it's like a thing of like release it.
That's it's. Like.
A tool just like release it. So there's always musicality in
me, but I don't. But that's why I've been kind of
(21:25):
like prepping myself and warmingmyself up to this idea of
possibly doing this biopic. And I literally, it's funny, she
knows me well, my voice teacher,I'll text her and I'll be like,
what do you feel about us possibly having a voice lesson
in like 2 years? And she's like, let's make it 6
months. And so it's like there's a
nervousness. People I know who really can
(21:48):
actually sing have this. Because it's very emotional.
Yes, and, and there's something very scary obviously about the.
Because it is still the voice isa muscle.
Yeah. And so.
OK, so when I was on Broadway, it was very intense.
Yes. Because it was the first thing I
did like 2 months out of graduating, right.
(22:12):
I liked musical theater, but I wasn't like a musical theater
person. I didn't know lyrics or I wasn't
that kind of person. We did in the West End 1st and
then we I came to do it on Broadway.
But I had lost my voice. And so there's a fearfulness
that I have because I can't fully control.
We can't really control our voice, right?
(22:34):
And so that's why I feel like itfeels like a OK next step of
like a film, right? Because of like, if it leaves
me, then I'm like, OK, let's take a break until it comes
back. So I think that's where the fear
is in a weird way with acting. I feel like I can like, sorry, I
could do it or like, you know, Imean, even have a bad day, like
there's so many takes that we dothat.
I'm like, they got something. They'll cut away, come back,
(22:57):
they'll get enough. It's so vulnerable standing
there. Even as a musician, like with
instruments, that instrument is in front of you like not to get
deep, but like your whole frontal expose, your heart is
open, exposed, like this offering.
And when it's amazing, it's amazing.
(23:18):
And with me losing my voice on Broadway for the first time, I
had developed like severe stage fright.
That's so scary. Did someone have to go on for
you? Well, yeah, on times they would
have to go on and stuff like that.
But then when I got nominated, Iin my mind, I thought, OK,
great, we got the nomination. First of all.
I was not expecting that at all,but great.
(23:40):
I could have take a break. And they were like, Oh no, no,
baby, you actually have to perform every single night
because I didn't know. Tony Voters.
They can come in anytime. Oh, and they cannot come.
With a God damn Tony I. Have no idea they are they like
are they? Freaks.
Or are they like? And I don't want to know, OK, I
don't want to know who they are.And Sebastian, if they.
Yeah, no, But yeah, so that was a very.
(24:01):
So even people were like, are you going to come back to
Broadway? I'm like yeah, yeah, sure, yeah.
For the right thing. And we're going to have to write
the music to be in my voice 100%so that even when you know what
I mean, like and you're singing in the winter and like you have
no life, you're not talking. You're like texting.
And it's just the amount of dedication that it takes for
(24:25):
Broadway and a musical. You better really love it and
then have an escape plan when you're done.
Mercury poisoning from sushi. Because it is intense, but I
love it and there's nothing likeit.
It's nothing like it. Well, OK, so you told me the
story when we were on set of eternity and you you were like
(24:48):
you told me about the ghost thing where where like you the
the girl had a knee injury and then they.
That's how I got to the yeah. So I the I had auditioned for it
like 2 months out of school, butwe weren't I was supposed to
just do the Broadway. The eventual.
Yes, that was like months, almost a year.
(25:08):
Yeah, later. So like I it was weird too,
'cause it's like you got a job, but you can't talk about it.
And it's like a whole year from now.
And then they said the lady, shehad had a knee injury that like
she hadn't dealt with. And I guess the doctors were
like, you need to babes. Yeah.
And so what's interesting is I don't know if it's this way now
'cause Broadway's changed so much, but in the UK on the West
(25:31):
End, they have like 4 understudies for the lead
characters. 4 Whoa. So they said no to all of those
who had been with their workshopping it and flew me in.
I had never had a rehearsal or nothing.
No, that was a cold room, honey,No.
Can you imagine waltzing in there?
So what? Hi guys 4.
(25:51):
Oh, and they were all. They were all.
No, no, because they're. All in the ensemble probably
too. They were like, Oh my God.
And you know how the Brits get down when they're upset?
Can't quite read. Do you hate me?
Do you love me? I don't know.
Wait, So what was the first performance like?
Were you flying by the seat of your pants?
I landed on a Sunday, they immediately took me to go see
(26:15):
the show. Jet lag fell asleep to the whole
performance. That next day, Monday, I had a
rehearsal with the assistant director.
I did not know. They said, oh, we're going to
have rehearsals. I'm going to walk you through
the show for this week. And I was like, OK, cool.
Had rehearsal Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday.
They then were like, great, we feel like you're at a great
place. You're going to go on tonight.
(26:37):
I didn't know that they had. This was like when it was what
was that thing called? Doo Doo Doo Doo Skype.
That's what it was. The director was secretly
Skyping. My rehearsal was.
Gorgeous. No, but I don't remember what I
saw the S. Palette was.
Ray stunning at all times. Like he was like, it was like
(26:58):
they had a camera set up. I didn't know he was watching
the rehearsals. The director after two
rehearsals, they were like, great, you're going to go on
tonight. Tonight's going to be your dress
rehearsal. Thursday.
You will. I don't know.
Basically I had two rehearsals, dress rehearsals, Wednesday,
(27:20):
Thursday and Friday. I mean, I was all on.
I was performing and I was like,why would you do these few
people? They bought their money.
Yeah. Yeah.
But did you did you feel like was a part of you like?
Honestly was. Me, give it to God, like here we
go. Absolutely.
What else you gonna do? Yeah.
It was honestly kind of amazing that she couldn't see dead
(27:41):
people what she could see, you know, I mean, like to sell it.
I couldn't look at him. Right.
So if if you are Sam, I can't look at you.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right.
So it kind of imagine if I had to actually lock in with you on
words that I don't really know. It's hard, right?
We need to lock eyes with someone.
But to be like Sam, I can't. I could literally be searching.
(28:05):
It works. Does that make sense?
I made the disability work for me for a cool two weeks.
That's unbelievable. It was very interesting.
In some ways, I'm like, was it the best?
Like your first show was like the best performance of your
life. Because you, it's just that,
like you said, that speed of fun, you just.
And I remember I was like, I remember my teacher at Yale.
(28:28):
He was like, you'll never experience anything like this
after this. You're good.
Yeah. You got it out the way like that
in school, right. And the craziness that school
did. But he was like, you're good.
And he's right. I've never experienced like,
things get wild. But yeah, Nah, it kind of like
broke me in, do you know what I mean?
That then I was like, OK, so nowlike with whether we're filming
(28:50):
or doing TV shows, I'm like, OK,so you have more pages.
Yeah. Right, we'll figure it out.
Like, I'm going to stumble, I'm going to mess it up, but at
least I know this is what we're doing today so I can lock in.
OK, I want to talk about acting songs.
Yes. Do you like this?
To me is like the problem with so much contemporary musical
theatre is like, I'm gonna demonstrate two different styles
(29:13):
of acting songs, please. OK, OK.
I went to the store. OK.
It's the lyric. OK.
So like there's like the to the contemporary way is like, so
like you feel that they were taught this in school where it's
like so professionalized or it'sit's like, I went to the store.
Yeah. Yep, clocking it.
(29:34):
Versus like older, kind of like Elaine Stritch, Bette Midler.
Yeah, Deliver it where it's justit's just like there.
It's like there's no difference between them singing like a jazz
stander that do you? Feel like contemporary musicals
is like indie. Is that what it is that it's
like, Right? Like, kind of twee the acting
style. Yeah, sometimes.
(29:56):
I mean, I just, I feel like there's like a weird
homogenization of like the way people act songs.
And it's like, I'm just like, I don't know if you need to be so
focused on like, like, I feel like I can see a teacher going
tell the story, you know, and like, choose the image and like
look up and find the memory and then sing to the memory.
Like, yeah. And I'm just like, I, I wonder
(30:16):
if you have like an approach or if you just feel it.
Yeah, yeah, of course. That I know when I so like I had
to take a musical theatre class in school and that was when I
was like, oh, that was when the world started to merge for me
that I was like, okay, like I did, I did.
(30:37):
I was judgy right in the class because then I call, I used to
call it like the cheerleading acting, you know, like like,
right, it's like the setting up.I'm about to do the mount and
I'm about to give you this big note and you better love it.
And I used to be like, what is? So I just thought that I was the
oddball in class 'cause I just was like, I don't know, look
(30:58):
like that. And I just, and luckily like
none of my teachers were like, no, no, you need to do that.
But I did think like where they learn that from?
What is that? I know why does it happen They.
Saw that somewhere. Yeah, it's a brand.
It's a thing. I don't know who created that
though. And if you listen to old.
Sondheim cast recordings. It's just like everyone's just
kind of like talking, basically.That's why I think Company is
(31:20):
genius. Yeah, it is the most natural
thing ever. And it kind of.
And what's nice about his stuff is you, it's with his stuff.
You can't do that. Yeah, it's not even possible.
It's impossible. Yeah, like.
Even into the woods. Like, this is a fairy tale and
they're real natural. Like, yeah, I need to go to the
festival and you know what I mean?
(31:42):
Like, yeah, that's it. Now I want to.
I got to go into the woods. I did.
This like you were just so relaxed on set.
It was so cool. You're such an easy actor, but I
felt that from you. Thank you.
I felt that from you. Don't you feel as like you're a
comedian? I'm not.
But like with the funnies, do you ever sometimes especially
(32:02):
like even if it's like, unless it's like you're with all of
your friends, sometimes with a comedic energy, Do you sometimes
feel like I got to warm people up to me?
Do you know what I mean? I sometimes feel that where I'm
like, how you know what I'm saying?
Like like, like kind of teach people.
Your yeah or like. People like, people still get
(32:23):
nervous about improv, you know what I mean?
Or people who consider I think alot of people are very funny and
they don't give themselves credit.
Yeah, but they will like freeze up and get nervous.
And I. Do you ever feel that way
sometimes where like what I loveis that I felt like being that I
always play I've as of yet I've always played supporting
characters. I think I've developed a muscle
(32:43):
of good of like, well, to come into a room and sense people's
energy and be like, OK, I know how to meet that and together we
rise, right? Totally.
But I find. With the.
Comedy people can feel very, especially if they're not
considering themselves, you know, like if they cast someone
in the movie and it's like, Oh well, that's the straight man,
but that's really the straight man that they can really feel
(33:05):
uncomfortable. How do you deal with that?
Because I think you're very free.
Thank you, especially with the. Comedy what?
Thank you. Well, I mean.
Yeah, I, I think I know what youmean.
Like the kind of like I like having the job of the clown of
like kind of disarming and like loosening people up.
Yes, yes, like I I do. Feel that people?
(33:26):
There is like, it is we, we havebeen like for the past 20 years
living under like big improvisation.
There's like, there's been so much like, did you do any of
that? Bear I I improvise.
With my friend Kate Berlant, like, my relationship to improv
is utterly contained within thatcollaboration.
And is that because you got tried?
The classes and I was like. I can't do this like they'd be
(33:49):
like go and I'd be like pizza. Like I, I literally could not do
it, but I can do it with Kate. You have a person that you feel
comfortable. Yeah.
And it just flows with. Yeah, but like I do.
I do think that people clam up because because we, like, value
it too much or something as a culture, like people are.
Yeah. It's like the antithesis of.
(34:09):
Yeah, it's supposed to be free. That's what I think the point of
improv is. Yeah, just be free.
Just like, Babble things out. Until I think the idea is like,
you eventually are going to get to a sweet spot and that is the
spark that will then allow it tocompletely unleash.
Yeah. Do they do you find that?
Directors. Like when you you I remember
(34:29):
when they were like he's hired and I was like, oh, baby, yes,
this is all about to open up really, truly and like breathe
and come on to a whole nother level.
And do you find that directors tend to lean into you for stuff
like that of like, oh, great, I you know what I mean?
Like I have him so net. Or is it the opposite where
(34:52):
they're like, don't do? What is your experience with
that feel a lot? This thing you're writing the
script. Yes, and like when I was.
You know, I was about to say when I was 15, I felt 15 when I
was like 25 doing my first big jobs and like they wanted me to
improvise. I was like, OK, OK, whatever.
But now I feel a little bit like, well, I don't want to.
Yeah, I don't. I don't want to write it.
(35:14):
Yeah, like you guys write it. Yeah.
Or bring me in early. And give me a credit and a
check. Yeah, exactly.
And I will, happily. Write it and it's so.
Much more fun to. Be given lines and then, you
know, I don't know. It's just like, I don't know.
I'm like, it's a lot of pressure.
Yeah. Anyway, well, we're getting, I'm
getting word from our producer it's time to do a soft rap.
I'm so happy to see you again. I know it was so fun working
(35:36):
with you. I know we have to do more of.
It we need to do more of it and we can not not do this again no
and we. Should we do a podcast?
I have a We should do a podcast and I want to hear about my.
Thoughts or your thoughts on my career?
Yes, I have. Huge and I'm huge plans that
I've. Had hiding at the bit.
Biding at. The bit to hear it well with
(35:57):
that, see you later.
This is John Early and. Devine Jay Randolph.
And we're in my house, Devine. Hello my friend.
No Devine joy or Devine. So my government is Devine Joy.
OK. But I feel like that's a lot
like every day just to be like Devine Joy.
Yeah. So I just like just call.
Me, David. It's only three syllables.
But it just feels like, you know.
(00:20):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do your friends call you Devine
Joy or? Devine No, because that's what I
mean. I feel like that's extra OK.
OK, well, hello, Devine. Hello, this is my house.
Oh my God. Yeah, we're really excited.
We just got. Evergreens.
We just got these in me and Mark.
There's no I made them up. Top tier, yeah.
I want to congratulate you on the colours you're wearing.
(00:44):
Thank you. They're both true to you, but
also true to the movie Eternity.Age 24 is Eternity.
How have you been? I've actually been good.
Good. I've been really good.
Nice, it's. Been, you know.
Do you know why? I think it's because I've had a
little bit of time off that like, you know, we get so like
(01:07):
wrapped up in it. I was just talking about this
the other day of like, I feel like we get comfortable in the
chaos and the Batty schedule in a weird way that makes us think
like, oh, I'm successful. I'm doing it.
And so when I do have the off chance of having moments of
brevity, it's like, you know, when you go to the country, at
(01:27):
least for me, I grew up in the city.
So like if you go to the countryand you're like, what is that
loud sound? And somebody's like, it's
silence. Do you know what I meant?
Yes, it's shocked. When I have those moments of
brevity, it takes me a couple ofdays.
If it was very uncomfortable andI'm like, I'm not doing enough
and I'm failing, whatever, and then I like it takes me a while.
(01:48):
Like I would probably need to goon a vacation for like 2-3 weeks
'cause week 1 is shot. Yeah, you're like, yeah.
You could be doing something whose towels can I fold?
You know what I mean? So it it's been nice to like
settling. We need, I think we need those
breaks, don't you think? Because I actually think that's
like what then refuels us? But also like creative wise,
(02:11):
like do you find that you're more creative when you get to
have a breath or do you find yourself more creative in the
midst? Because I heard a rumor which I
think is true. It better not be about my
sexuality. I told you we weren't going to
talk about that today, but in regards to you were writing your
(02:33):
script while we were filming in your trailer for a movie that is
now into Film Festival. So you're double fisting at the
Tim Festival? Well, I love fisting, and you
know that. I know, that's why I gave that
reference to lead you right there.
I, I, it's for me, it's both. I mean, you there for this movie
(02:55):
that I was writing in particular, yeah.
I needed a degree of like blindness that you can only get
through, like speed. Like it's kind of, it's a very
wild premise and it's like. And so I just, I I was like,
there was kind of something built in from the beginning
where I was like, I just want togo fast and see what happens if
I go fast. And I was like, I have a feeling
(03:16):
that if I slow down, I'll be like, what are you doing?
And I'm so the whole the whole purpose of that movie.
Maddie's Secret coming soon to atheatre near you.
There's no. Distribution yet?
Better watch it Google get distributed.
Thank you. Absolutely.
But like I, I was like, I'm going to just like drive fast
and see what happens and like. Yeah.
(03:38):
Do you do that in in? Was that your first time
applying that process or technique?
Kind of, I mean, but normally I am more like go to the woods and
like let it emerge. Even for your comedy.
I don't know how my comedy comestogether if I have to, I have to
be honest with you. It's it's like comedy comes
(03:59):
together through like years of like being like going to do sets
and like kind of having a gun toyour head and be like, I need
something new. You know, it's not, I think
like, but like more narrative stuff, like movies, I feel like
has to come from like some time in the woods where you can like
let it kind of bubble up, you know, But I so it's both.
(04:22):
What about you? I kind of like the idea of I I
hate having the script in my hand.
And so some I mean, it's you know, right, it's different
project to project, but in general I hate to me that's like
duh, that's necessary. Just do it.
Just get off book so that now you can get I it makes me feel
(04:45):
blocked, right. So that needs to happen for me
first so that then I can memorize yeah, so I can then
feel free. I like to, I always describe it
of like you can put boundaries or like guard.
It's like bowling, right? You can put those little rails
up. But I want the rails to be like
5 lanes long. Does that make sense?
I don't want it narrow. I want a big playground and
(05:07):
right and there's a safety of meknowing somewhere there's rails
to like keep me in here, but it's not tight.
But I need to like, bang againstthe walls.
And the rails for you are the memorization.
No, I mean like I like to do thethe work ahead of time in a
sense of like, OK, get off book done that.
(05:29):
Then I like to really get to if I didn't do this, I think I
would have been like a psych in psychology or something.
Like I'm really, really into human behavior and like I'm just
fascinated by why people do the things they do and like the
rationale that they make up in their head and it's legit to
them, to someone else. It's like you are off your
rocker. But I'm fascinated how people
(05:52):
brains tick. And so that's the part that I
like, indulge and have fun with.Yeah.
Once that's been done, I'm like,OK, they're in me.
Yes. When we now come to set to film,
you could tell me that my character now is going to space
and I'm like bet right, because they're locked in the essence
(06:13):
and the persona and the them is in me.
So it makes me then feel free, right?
Of like I know who she is, yes. Right.
Well, in the alternative, which is so dangerous and I feel like
sometimes I fall into this trap is like, if you don't, if you
like, if you don't do all that work beforehand and you, and
(06:36):
then you come to set and you've like kind of manically done the
work like 5 minutes before, thenyour performance becomes like a
book report. You'd become like a good
student. You're like, I did the work.
You're like trying to show how you.
Did that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Versus what you're doing is justletting go that?
Still happens to me though sometimes because right?
Like we'll get to set and they might completely change things
or they've now come up with thisamazing idea that your character
(06:59):
is something completely different.
Or it might be, you know, something that's very the needs
to be very technical at this point.
Like they might chill out. We actually just need you to
stand here and say this thing, right?
And so, yeah, I can understand that, but.
But that's the to me, that's thedanger of not going to the woods
like and not like chilling. That's your woods.
Yeah, like if you work into manic or like caffeinated of a
(07:22):
way, then when it really counts,when the camera's rolling,
sometimes you get a little like,I don't know, I'm, I'm like, I'm
like. Yeah, a prepare, Nick.
Yeah. Prepare.
I get it, you know. But you, I have to say, working
with you on Eternity, coming soon to a theater.
You better go see it. You better.
They have not asked us to do this, but it was like.
It's OK man, we're doing it. I'm I'm you better.
(07:46):
It affects my money. OK, yes, come see the fucking
movie. I don't like curse.
I want to try to curse less, youknow what I mean?
But it's who you are, OK? I think you'd be less like.
I think you'd be more boring. If I didn't curse.
Yes, well, you are, and you do it well to curse.
Well, yeah, so trippingly off the tongue.
Trippingly off the tongue. Is a It's a gift.
(08:09):
We've opened the door. I know, OK.
We've opened a huge door, which is acting school.
I know. OK.
So I want to know. I want to know about you.
We've talked about this a littlebit on set.
Yeah, because people should knowthere are three NYU students in
this movie and one yelling, and I don't know where Callum went.
I'm going to say RADA. Let's just keep it League.
(08:31):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Ivy Leagueies.
Yeah. Wait, did we talk about
interlocking? You went to.
Interlocking. I went to interlocking.
We did not talk about that. I I did a little talk about
manic preparation. I went to interlocking does the.
Name just make you like literally my eyes are starting
to water up. So did you do the Academy or the
camp? Did the camp.
They then said that was my junior summer.
(08:52):
They then said come to the school.
My mom said yeah, right. Me.
Too bring your butt home right now.
Me too and I was like mom please.
This is this is the exact same junior year and I got into the
Academy and I was like, well, here we go.
It started I'm a start. Center stage, here we fucking
go. And then my mom, my mom was like
(09:15):
devastated. Yeah, I understand.
It was our last year. She was going to lose me a year
early. Yeah, and I get that now.
And I'm glad I stayed in Nashville.
I know, but I felt the same way.But it was like it was such a
dream, that place. Truly, I've never experienced
anything. Anything like it?
I loved it so much maybe oh 'cause I was OK.
So like while in college I went back to be a camp counselor.
(09:41):
Get it for the four year olds. That's so sweet, little.
Korean prodigies literally in the bed with me because they
were like their parents shipped them off.
That's crazy to. Come in the middle of the.
Woods, you were the a counselor in a cabin.
Yes, that's wild. For the little, little babies,
that's. So sweet, so you loved it that
(10:02):
much. You had to be back.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I need to hear the song do do do
do do see. It gets you those that know it.
Literally. I literally could cry you saying
that. It's crazy.
I never it's actually been it's.Relatable.
I just want to check in real quick.
It it No, I've people who have gone there say that it is.
(10:27):
There's nothing in comparison. I do think it's relatable
because I think I don't know about you, but for me, I didn't.
I knew I had a gift in this genre of art like arts and
whether it's singing, I didn't know acting yet.
It was just strictly singing music.
It was. It was opera.
Yeah, I was in the classical voice department.
Wow, yeah, that is so cool. Yeah, 'cause I always felt as a
(10:50):
theatre person, I do feel a little bit like the kind of
like. You guys like the wild one The.
Clowns. Yeah.
You feel like the kind of Yeah do well.
Vagabonds. And like everyone else there was
like. Yes, they're like. 10 and
they're like. Very focused, yeah, I can get
that. But I it, it started my identity
as an artist. Yeah.
And write like the respect and the the dedication and the, that
(11:14):
place for sure taught me discipline me too.
So I'm forever grateful to that place because I've never
experienced anything like it. That was the first time I was
like, oh, like people, you can take it seriously.
You're allowed to take it seriously and not feel like.
Weird about it, yeah. It was so thrilling.
We did the Laramie project. Wait a minute.
(11:38):
What? Did we go at the same time?
We'll talk about this later, no?Do you remember production Larry
projects? Yeah, yeah, OK.
Unless they do this like every five years.
I don't think they do. I mean, it's a it's a smart one.
It's a big ensemble heavy subject matter.
But one one of my favorite memories from the Laramie
(12:00):
project is like, you know, it's set in Wyoming, famously
Laramie, WY, rural Wyoming, but we were like, we literally all
could not stop doing southern accents because it's like, you
know, people who live on farms. We're like, we were out there
back and the director was like, OK, they're not in the South.
(12:22):
Oh my God. And we could not curb the
accident. It was.
So. But wait.
What I have to know now, what was the musical?
The musical was Babes in Arms, the Rogers and Hart music.
We were there at the same time. This is huge.
Toby Brahms. From the musical theater
(12:44):
apartment, yes, I'm looking for West.
And West, I'm gonna cry. Stop it.
This is crazy. I'm.
Gonna cry. See, this is the connection.
Yes, this is crazy. We.
Were in each others energy. And we probably were the
cafeteria together. Yeah, for sure.
Yeah, that's beautiful. I did a musical with my friends
(13:04):
there. We made a musical called
Interlocking Dreams. I have to see it.
And we like, performed it in thelibrary.
And I played a kid named Ben Dover, who was closeted.
Honey, let me tell you, there was a lot of that.
It was a very transformative. Yeah.
That was a big summer for a lot of people.
(13:26):
I'm not going to get into details, but let's just say I
was rocked, Yes, Yeah. You guys, the the boys side
definitely had way more fun thanwe did it.
It brought in a new era for manyof you gents.
It really and I was very happy for all of you.
Thank you. Thank.
You. You deserved it.
It's time. But then opera.
(13:48):
This is my curiosity because youwere doing like classical music
at Interlochen and beyond where you like was part of you like
did there, did it feel like there were like limits on like
an acting level to opera? Like what?
Pulled you into. I got into interlocking off of a
dare because there was this likesnobby girl at my school, a
newbie that came and was like, Iwent to interlocking and I said,
(14:11):
yo, I don't know what this is, but I don't like her tone.
I'm applying right, Just becauseI'm competitive.
Got there and I was like, whoa, this is really, really cool,
right, Like you can make a living.
This is it. Well, I don't know about living,
but you know what I mean. This is a thing.
You can take it serious. This is whatever the at
interlocking. It was the sense of play, maybe
because like the theatre department was like around and
(14:34):
stuff and you're like intermingling with all these
people. It wasn't necessarily told to us
like, you can act too while doing this, but it was like, you
know, move around and, you know,I mean, being your body kind of
a thing. And then when I went to college,
it was like, no acting. Just stand there.
Yeah. Stand there.
(14:54):
Look pretty. That is it.
Like you're like a concert singer.
Yeah, but you're doing an opera and we're doing Aida, and you're
being buried alive with your white boyfriend.
And they're like and they're like, don't act.
Yeah, and now it wasn't that I wanted to act, but that just
felt. Strange.
Felt very stiff and cold and I was like I don't.
No, obviously that's not true ofall opera.
(15:14):
I mean, there's probably some. Now it it's well, right, So back
in the day, right, If you look at old videos, epic extreme
acting like on a Grecian level, right?
And then it stopped. And growing up, at least with my
education, they were not about it.
And now opera is getting a little avant-garde ish and like
(15:36):
real weird. Like on the other side of the.
Pendulum and Nicole Opera. And you're like, whoa, OK.
Now, would you? Is there a part of you that
would? I mean, Can you imagine the
career shift? Can I just quickly be your
manager? You won an Oscar.
Imagine you suddenly are like, I'll see you at the Met bitch,
(15:56):
and you're doing. Oh, can I tell you I just
recently came back from going toFlorence and in Florence, but
Italy in general. But Florence, like their St.
performers, yeah, are casual opera singers that can blow.
I cried. Yeah.
And I was like, this is funny because this literally just
happened, like, days ago. Yeah.
(16:17):
And I was like. OK, you missed it a little.
Bit you you need to tap back into it.
Yeah, you need to tap back into it so.
I'm so excited. I don't know how.
Yeah. I've thought about, like, doing
it of a way of merging the two, like portraying an opera singer,
like in a biopic or something. Oh, God.
OK, I know, I know. But I'm nervous but excited but
(16:37):
very curious of like how that will work because as a musician
that is a whole nother side of my brain and I think because of
interlocking, but in a good way.I'm very regimented.
So I'm nervous because all like because I came to acting by this
like happy accident. I'm like very free because I was
(17:01):
like, well, I don't know, like, you know, I mean, let's just try
it. Like I'm sure you have people
like especially at Yale, there were people were very like this
is acting and Stanislavski says and Ruda Hagen told me and I'm
like, who's oops, Stan said whatyou didn't make like I didn't
know anything. I.
Wish I had that. So I was loose but like.
Oh, I didn't know anything, but I was so good student who was
(17:23):
so. But those programs make you know
what I mean? Like of course.
Inspire that. Yeah, and so I'm nervous because
I'm that with music, right. So like, but I think people have
like Cynthia Revo or like AudreyMcDonald where they blend the
two. I I could not get a chance to
(17:45):
see it and I am gutted. I'm really upset because when I
but I did see that clip, yeah, I'm literally getting chills
right now. She tore talk about acting and
music. Like what I was really what I
thought was so cool about her performance was I was like, it
actually didn't feel like the thing that Gypsy off or can be.
(18:06):
Well first of all you should just do Gypsy in like 20 years.
You know, it's funny, there was talks about it when because they
didn't like really want it to close and there was talks about
and I was, but it literally was like, could you do it in two
weeks? And I was like, are you out of
your mind? No God.
This is crazy. OK, So what I thought was so
cool, and this will bring us back to other things is like it.
(18:27):
It really was as opposed to it just being a performance about a
performance, which that role canso easily be where it's like,
here we go, the grand Dom of musical theater.
Like it's let's let's all applaud for the diva, which that
of course, is what's going on nomatter what.
And that's the heaven of seeing it live.
Absolutely. As an audience member, your role
is so clear. You.
Just need to go, yeah, you know.Yeah, and I and I like leapt
(18:50):
tonight if you. Know.
Sure, sure. Sure, but like she act, it
didn't feel like that was like the subtext of the performance.
It was just like, I was like, oh, she has literally like she
studied someone in her life who's like manic depressive,
like whatever the right clinicalterm is.
Like she is like watch someone or she knows I was like she
(19:11):
knows someone. Like this.
And I also wonder, do you think that maybe her working on Billie
Holiday before that set her up? I thought of that, right.
I loved how she wasn't afraid tosound ugly.
Yeah, I love you. Because the emotion right is in
the cracks and the vocal brakes.Yeah.
And she, yes. And for those who don't know,
she's a classical soprano voice typically.
(19:33):
But no, she was. Beautiful, pretty voice and she
just let it. Off.
It was so cool. Hang out and raw.
But wait, so musical. So wait, here's my question to
you do. You I just sneak interlocking
quick thing. I used to sneak in their
rehearsals. The musical theatre.
Yeah. So that's it.
Maybe there was something like calling me because it was like,
I loved classical. Yeah, but I would literally
(19:55):
like. Sneak in.
I worshipped them because I was like, I can't believe like this.
Musical theatre, like acting is like just pure acting is like
obviously just a little more mercurial.
It's kind of harder to say, well, that person's got it and
that person doesn't like musicaltheatre.
The fact that there is kind of ametric of like.
Singing and dancing, you know, although I would love for us to,
(20:19):
I would love for us to have morelike Elaine Stritches in the
world, Yes, where it's like, notabout athletic.
Singing when I get old, yeah, I I go into transition into that
category. Yes, that would be really fun
for me. I have, I literally have huge
plans for your career. We will talk afterwards.
OK, we'll talk. But OK, so wait.
But do you, now that you've doneso much like film acting, Do
(20:41):
you? It's OK if you don't want to
answer this 100%, do you keep upyour voice?
I don't. And it is so well, listen, I
think if you're a musical person, there's always a tune in
your heart. I'm always like, even out of
nerves, This is funny. If I have a tense conversation,
let's say I like talk with my agent or whoever, right?
And I'm like when I didn't know.I do this as a tick when I hang
(21:05):
up on the phone after a tense conversation.
I'm like it's like a thing of like release it.
That's it's. Like.
A tool just like release it. So there's always musicality in
me, but I don't. But that's why I've been kind of
(21:25):
like prepping myself and warmingmyself up to this idea of
possibly doing this biopic. And I literally, it's funny, she
knows me well, my voice teacher,I'll text her and I'll be like,
what do you feel about us possibly having a voice lesson
in like 2 years? And she's like, let's make it 6
months. And so it's like there's a
nervousness. People I know who really can
(21:48):
actually sing have this. Because it's very emotional.
Yes, and, and there's something very scary obviously about the.
Because it is still the voice isa muscle.
Yeah. And so.
OK, so when I was on Broadway, it was very intense.
Yes. Because it was the first thing I
did like 2 months out of graduating, right.
(22:12):
I liked musical theater, but I wasn't like a musical theater
person. I didn't know lyrics or I wasn't
that kind of person. We did in the West End 1st and
then we I came to do it on Broadway.
But I had lost my voice. And so there's a fearfulness
that I have because I can't fully control.
We can't really control our voice, right?
(22:34):
And so that's why I feel like itfeels like a OK next step of
like a film, right? Because of like, if it leaves
me, then I'm like, OK, let's take a break until it comes
back. So I think that's where the fear
is in a weird way with acting. I feel like I can like, sorry, I
could do it or like, you know, Imean, even have a bad day, like
there's so many takes that we dothat.
I'm like, they got something. They'll cut away, come back,
(22:57):
they'll get enough. It's so vulnerable standing
there. Even as a musician, like with
instruments, that instrument is in front of you like not to get
deep, but like your whole frontal expose, your heart is
open, exposed, like this offering.
And when it's amazing, it's amazing.
(23:18):
And with me losing my voice on Broadway for the first time, I
had developed like severe stage fright.
That's so scary. Did someone have to go on for
you? Well, yeah, on times they would
have to go on and stuff like that.
But then when I got nominated, Iin my mind, I thought, OK,
great, we got the nomination. First of all.
I was not expecting that at all,but great.
(23:40):
I could have take a break. And they were like, Oh no, no,
baby, you actually have to perform every single night
because I didn't know. Tony Voters.
They can come in anytime. Oh, and they cannot come.
With a God damn Tony I. Have no idea they are they like
are they? Freaks.
Or are they like? And I don't want to know, OK, I
don't want to know who they are.And Sebastian, if they.
Yeah, no, But yeah, so that was a very.
(24:01):
So even people were like, are you going to come back to
Broadway? I'm like yeah, yeah, sure, yeah.
For the right thing. And we're going to have to write
the music to be in my voice 100%so that even when you know what
I mean, like and you're singing in the winter and like you have
no life, you're not talking. You're like texting.
And it's just the amount of dedication that it takes for
(24:25):
Broadway and a musical. You better really love it and
then have an escape plan when you're done.
Mercury poisoning from sushi. Because it is intense, but I
love it and there's nothing likeit.
It's nothing like it. Well, OK, so you told me the
story when we were on set of eternity and you you were like
(24:48):
you told me about the ghost thing where where like you the
the girl had a knee injury and then they.
That's how I got to the yeah. So I the I had auditioned for it
like 2 months out of school, butwe weren't I was supposed to
just do the Broadway. The eventual.
Yes, that was like months, almost a year.
(25:08):
Yeah, later. So like I it was weird too,
'cause it's like you got a job, but you can't talk about it.
And it's like a whole year from now.
And then they said the lady, shehad had a knee injury that like
she hadn't dealt with. And I guess the doctors were
like, you need to babes. Yeah.
And so what's interesting is I don't know if it's this way now
'cause Broadway's changed so much, but in the UK on the West
(25:31):
End, they have like 4 understudies for the lead
characters. 4 Whoa. So they said no to all of those
who had been with their workshopping it and flew me in.
I had never had a rehearsal or nothing.
No, that was a cold room, honey,No.
Can you imagine waltzing in there?
So what? Hi guys 4.
(25:51):
Oh, and they were all. They were all.
No, no, because they're. All in the ensemble probably
too. They were like, Oh my God.
And you know how the Brits get down when they're upset?
Can't quite read. Do you hate me?
Do you love me? I don't know.
Wait, So what was the first performance like?
Were you flying by the seat of your pants?
I landed on a Sunday, they immediately took me to go see
(26:15):
the show. Jet lag fell asleep to the whole
performance. That next day, Monday, I had a
rehearsal with the assistant director.
I did not know. They said, oh, we're going to
have rehearsals. I'm going to walk you through
the show for this week. And I was like, OK, cool.
Had rehearsal Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday.
They then were like, great, we feel like you're at a great
place. You're going to go on tonight.
(26:37):
I didn't know that they had. This was like when it was what
was that thing called? Doo Doo Doo Doo Skype.
That's what it was. The director was secretly
Skyping. My rehearsal was.
Gorgeous. No, but I don't remember what I
saw the S. Palette was.
Ray stunning at all times. Like he was like, it was like
(26:58):
they had a camera set up. I didn't know he was watching
the rehearsals. The director after two
rehearsals, they were like, great, you're going to go on
tonight. Tonight's going to be your dress
rehearsal. Thursday.
You will. I don't know.
Basically I had two rehearsals, dress rehearsals, Wednesday,
(27:20):
Thursday and Friday. I mean, I was all on.
I was performing and I was like,why would you do these few
people? They bought their money.
Yeah. Yeah.
But did you did you feel like was a part of you like?
Honestly was. Me, give it to God, like here we
go. Absolutely.
What else you gonna do? Yeah.
It was honestly kind of amazing that she couldn't see dead
(27:41):
people what she could see, you know, I mean, like to sell it.
I couldn't look at him. Right.
So if if you are Sam, I can't look at you.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right.
So it kind of imagine if I had to actually lock in with you on
words that I don't really know. It's hard, right?
We need to lock eyes with someone.
But to be like Sam, I can't. I could literally be searching.
(28:05):
It works. Does that make sense?
I made the disability work for me for a cool two weeks.
That's unbelievable. It was very interesting.
In some ways, I'm like, was it the best?
Like your first show was like the best performance of your
life. Because you, it's just that,
like you said, that speed of fun, you just.
And I remember I was like, I remember my teacher at Yale.
(28:28):
He was like, you'll never experience anything like this
after this. You're good.
Yeah. You got it out the way like that
in school, right. And the craziness that school
did. But he was like, you're good.
And he's right. I've never experienced like,
things get wild. But yeah, Nah, it kind of like
broke me in, do you know what I mean?
That then I was like, OK, so nowlike with whether we're filming
(28:50):
or doing TV shows, I'm like, OK,so you have more pages.
Yeah. Right, we'll figure it out.
Like, I'm going to stumble, I'm going to mess it up, but at
least I know this is what we're doing today so I can lock in.
OK, I want to talk about acting songs.
Yes. Do you like this?
To me is like the problem with so much contemporary musical
theatre is like, I'm gonna demonstrate two different styles
(29:13):
of acting songs, please. OK, OK.
I went to the store. OK.
It's the lyric. OK.
So like there's like the to the contemporary way is like, so
like you feel that they were taught this in school where it's
like so professionalized or it'sit's like, I went to the store.
Yeah. Yep, clocking it.
(29:34):
Versus like older, kind of like Elaine Stritch, Bette Midler.
Yeah, Deliver it where it's justit's just like there.
It's like there's no difference between them singing like a jazz
stander that do you? Feel like contemporary musicals
is like indie. Is that what it is that it's
like, Right? Like, kind of twee the acting
style. Yeah, sometimes.
(29:56):
I mean, I just, I feel like there's like a weird
homogenization of like the way people act songs.
And it's like, I'm just like, I don't know if you need to be so
focused on like, like, I feel like I can see a teacher going
tell the story, you know, and like, choose the image and like
look up and find the memory and then sing to the memory.
Like, yeah. And I'm just like, I, I wonder
(30:16):
if you have like an approach or if you just feel it.
Yeah, yeah, of course. That I know when I so like I had
to take a musical theatre class in school and that was when I
was like, oh, that was when the world started to merge for me
that I was like, okay, like I did, I did.
(30:37):
I was judgy right in the class because then I call, I used to
call it like the cheerleading acting, you know, like like,
right, it's like the setting up.I'm about to do the mount and
I'm about to give you this big note and you better love it.
And I used to be like, what is? So I just thought that I was the
oddball in class 'cause I just was like, I don't know, look
(30:58):
like that. And I just, and luckily like
none of my teachers were like, no, no, you need to do that.
But I did think like where they learn that from?
What is that? I know why does it happen They.
Saw that somewhere. Yeah, it's a brand.
It's a thing. I don't know who created that
though. And if you listen to old.
Sondheim cast recordings. It's just like everyone's just
kind of like talking, basically.That's why I think Company is
(31:20):
genius. Yeah, it is the most natural
thing ever. And it kind of.
And what's nice about his stuff is you, it's with his stuff.
You can't do that. Yeah, it's not even possible.
It's impossible. Yeah, like.
Even into the woods. Like, this is a fairy tale and
they're real natural. Like, yeah, I need to go to the
festival and you know what I mean?
(31:42):
Like, yeah, that's it. Now I want to.
I got to go into the woods. I did.
This like you were just so relaxed on set.
It was so cool. You're such an easy actor, but I
felt that from you. Thank you.
I felt that from you. Don't you feel as like you're a
comedian? I'm not.
But like with the funnies, do you ever sometimes especially
(32:02):
like even if it's like, unless it's like you're with all of
your friends, sometimes with a comedic energy, Do you sometimes
feel like I got to warm people up to me?
Do you know what I mean? I sometimes feel that where I'm
like, how you know what I'm saying?
Like like, like kind of teach people.
Your yeah or like. People like, people still get
(32:23):
nervous about improv, you know what I mean?
Or people who consider I think alot of people are very funny and
they don't give themselves credit.
Yeah, but they will like freeze up and get nervous.
And I. Do you ever feel that way
sometimes where like what I loveis that I felt like being that I
always play I've as of yet I've always played supporting
characters. I think I've developed a muscle
(32:43):
of good of like, well, to come into a room and sense people's
energy and be like, OK, I know how to meet that and together we
rise, right? Totally.
But I find. With the.
Comedy people can feel very, especially if they're not
considering themselves, you know, like if they cast someone
in the movie and it's like, Oh well, that's the straight man,
but that's really the straight man that they can really feel
(33:05):
uncomfortable. How do you deal with that?
Because I think you're very free.
Thank you, especially with the. Comedy what?
Thank you. Well, I mean.
Yeah, I, I think I know what youmean.
Like the kind of like I like having the job of the clown of
like kind of disarming and like loosening people up.
Yes, yes, like I I do. Feel that people?
(33:26):
There is like, it is we, we havebeen like for the past 20 years
living under like big improvisation.
There's like, there's been so much like, did you do any of
that? Bear I I improvise.
With my friend Kate Berlant, like, my relationship to improv
is utterly contained within thatcollaboration.
And is that because you got tried?
The classes and I was like. I can't do this like they'd be
(33:49):
like go and I'd be like pizza. Like I, I literally could not do
it, but I can do it with Kate. You have a person that you feel
comfortable. Yeah.
And it just flows with. Yeah, but like I do.
I do think that people clam up because because we, like, value
it too much or something as a culture, like people are.
Yeah. It's like the antithesis of.
(34:09):
Yeah, it's supposed to be free. That's what I think the point of
improv is. Yeah, just be free.
Just like, Babble things out. Until I think the idea is like,
you eventually are going to get to a sweet spot and that is the
spark that will then allow it tocompletely unleash.
Yeah. Do they do you find that?
Directors. Like when you you I remember
(34:29):
when they were like he's hired and I was like, oh, baby, yes,
this is all about to open up really, truly and like breathe
and come on to a whole nother level.
And do you find that directors tend to lean into you for stuff
like that of like, oh, great, I you know what I mean?
Like I have him so net. Or is it the opposite where
(34:52):
they're like, don't do? What is your experience with
that feel a lot? This thing you're writing the
script. Yes, and like when I was.
You know, I was about to say when I was 15, I felt 15 when I
was like 25 doing my first big jobs and like they wanted me to
improvise. I was like, OK, OK, whatever.
But now I feel a little bit like, well, I don't want to.
Yeah, I don't. I don't want to write it.
(35:14):
Yeah, like you guys write it. Yeah.
Or bring me in early. And give me a credit and a
check. Yeah, exactly.
And I will, happily. Write it and it's so.
Much more fun to. Be given lines and then, you
know, I don't know. It's just like, I don't know.
I'm like, it's a lot of pressure.
Yeah. Anyway, well, we're getting, I'm
getting word from our producer it's time to do a soft rap.
I'm so happy to see you again. I know it was so fun working
(35:36):
with you. I know we have to do more of.
It we need to do more of it and we can not not do this again no
and we. Should we do a podcast?
I have a We should do a podcast and I want to hear about my.
Thoughts or your thoughts on my career?
Yes, I have. Huge and I'm huge plans that
I've. Had hiding at the bit.
Biding at. The bit to hear it well with
(35:57):
that, see you later.
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