July 23, 2025 • 53 mins
Topics covered include: Martini celebrations, hydration regimens, learning the true meaning of the word ‘release,’ feeling visible but not seen, the special privacy of making a debut film, bringing your whole humanity to the words on a page, sharing an editor with Terrence Malick, being moved by how little you know, the Mother/Sister/Daughter theory, the subtle differences between Pedro Pascal, Chris Evans and Dakota Johnson, alleviating grief by thinking about The Next Thing, desperately needing sleep, Celine going straight from the Oscars to the first Materialists scout, Eva’s intricate process directing a movie they also acted in, sparring of ideas, committing to subjectivity, and having bangs.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Hi, I'm Sneen Song. And I'm Eva Victor, and this is
the A 24 podcast. Wait, why did I nail it?
Are we doing it right now? I think we're doing it right
now. That's so awesome because it was
such a seamless transition. You wouldn't even know we're
doing the podcast. Yeah, when they were saying it's
like, well, who would you do? I was like, who would I do a
podcast with for this movie? And I was like, and then when
(00:20):
you asked and I was like, Oh my.God, thank you for doing.
It we can do it together. Did you see Avanya on 42nd St.
Have you seen that movie? It's like Andre Gregory.
It's really cool, but that's howthey do that play.
Like it looks like all the audiences are just talking to
each other and they're one of them.
Waggy is that. It's so cool.
It's just mind blowing when you're in the audience and
you're like, the play has begun.The.
(00:42):
Play has begun, just like this podcast.
The Play the podcast. Has it's begun?
Yeah, Oh my God, how are you feeling?
How are you? How's.
Premiere. I definitely had a martini
that's great, which for me was like New York martini
celebration grown up. I mean, I can't drink at those
things. Yeah, you know, because you're
just like protecting yourself. No, not really even I feel like
(01:03):
I just forget to. I know well.
There's no time. There's no time.
And then whenever I'm thinking I'm like, I should drink
something, it's usually like water, Water that because I'm
like so thirsty. I know, I know.
But you know, I am doing this like punishing thing where I'm
not drinking water to see like what my body can take.
OK, You can't do that. I know, I know.
And you have to what I drink. I try to as much as I can.
Are you for real? You drink water all the time.
(01:24):
You. Have to like also.
I mean, I'm still don't drink enough.
Yeah, but I am. Told to.
By who? Mainly my husband.
Yeah, well, good for him. He's.
Always like love. He's always like, you just need
to hydrate. But don't guy, I thought guys
are like obsessed with like having like people drink water.
Yeah. What is that?
It's like love and also psychoticness and dad shit or.
(01:45):
Something, maybe it's something like that, but maybe it's like
the one thing maybe they figuredout is that.
Makes me feel good. Water is good.
That's the one thing in this world that's like, constantly.
Yeah. And it's like and you can get it
and it's basically. Free.
In New York, anyway. You know what I don't like is
watching anyone, but particularly men, chug water for
a while and watching it go down their throat like.
(02:08):
I think I like men a lot. You love men.
I think I do. Because tell me everything that
and then I am like. You're like, that's hot.
Kind of, but you. Tell me what?
Why? Because it's like they're
fulfilling an essential need. No, I don't know.
I think that I don't know. I find them so charming.
You find men charming, Yeah. I do.
(02:29):
I find someone very charming. Yeah, I think some men are
terming, but I feel like part oflike part of that is like you
just kind of go like, OK, it's part of I think knowing them
too, getting to know them. But if you.
Know and love chug water that could be very beautiful for you
it. Could be very beautiful, but
also like, I think that it's because like I just find them to
be. I mean, I guess charming is the
(02:49):
best word. For it, well, they're so
different. They are so different.
They do the weirdest stuff. Yeah, yeah.
Well, it's like they were born into a different world in a way,
completely like a world that wasbuilt for them.
It's so awesome. It is kind of.
I admire that. I mean, I don't admire that, but
I do think that is very, it brings a different perspective.
Yeah, I know it's. Huge to write, to walk into a
(03:11):
world and then be like, oh this is built for me and this is for
me. Right.
And they're like, have some water, have some world.
Yeah. Wait.
Oh, wait. OK.
So how are you feeling? I feel.
Good. Yes.
Yeah. I mean, my movie's out in the
world. You're going to come out so
soon? And and, you know, I've never
felt more clear on what the wordrelease means.
(03:31):
Yeah, I didn't understand. Oh yeah, you're having a whole
thing. And I feel like I was doing this
in 2023. I feel like you and I are having
a. It's a vibe.
Similar time, aren't we? How does you're feeling right
now compared to your feeling then?
Oh, I feel like you must know exactly how I was feeling at
(03:52):
that time in 2023, like back when Past Lives was coming out,
where you were being introduced to the world in a really
beautiful way with you in your film, and you just come to
Sundance. It was so wonderful.
And then shout out to you and shout out to you.
And then, you know, so I feel like you get to come out of
Sundance and you have all this like, amazing.
(04:14):
You're like meeting your audience.
Right. It's very so magical.
Weird. It's very, very magical and
weird. It is pretty weird.
I mean, cause something that I think about a lot is that you're
visible but not seen sometimes, you know, because you're very,
very visible, but it's only a handful of people who really see
you. And even when I talk to, when I
(04:34):
do interviews and stuff like that, I think about that a lot.
I'm always like, oh, this journalist, this writer really
sees me. Or sometimes you're like, oh,
this, I'm just visible to this person.
Oh, that's such an important distinction.
And when you feel seen, that's such a euphoric feeling.
Oh. Yeah, well, and that's why you.
That's what you're looking for. That's why we're making a movie.
Yes. Right.
And also, of course, you're so seen in your film, you know?
(04:56):
Right. Yeah.
As is everyone. I agree.
I mean, I think that you can seeme really well in my movie, you
know what I mean? Yeah.
I feel like I'm like, really we just cause part of it is like we
are especially being like havingas much authority on it as we
can. I'm sure it's like, if you don't
have as much authority on it, then maybe like, you know,
(05:17):
somebody else is in it. But for our movies, we just get
to how lucky are we? I I mean, that's the thing that
I feel allows me to sleep at night is like I feel that it is
the film I wanted to make and that I am in it in the way I
wanted to be in it. Like heart wise.
Yeah, yeah. Totally.
Well, I think it's like you got to be in it and then now it's
(05:39):
being, it is of course very visible and you want to be as
visible as possible so that as many people who see it anyway,
you can feel seen in it. Yeah, it's like giving yourself
as much opportunity to find people who can see it.
Exactly like weird too because visibility isn't emotional.
No. There's nothing to hold on to,
(06:01):
no. But it looks, it looks shiny and
great, you know? Yeah.
So it's. Yes, yeah.
But then I feel like once in a while, like I'll talk to
somebody or something and I'll be like, oh wow, you're really.
So you actually you actually sawme in the movie?
Yes. That's so magical.
That, yeah, it's like a drop of water and you're so thirsty and,
(06:21):
like, feeling that. And when someone sees how you
are in it, that is the thing that, like, allows you to
believe that it made sense that you did it and that you do it.
And because it's such a hard job.
Oh yeah, yeah. You mean like being visible?
Well, just making a movie. Sure.
You're like, it's easy to me. No, it's not easy to me, but I
think part of it is that I don'tknow.
(06:43):
Everyday I feel like I was on set for my second movie because
I feel like part of making the first movie though is that I
don't think that I knew how to appreciate it because it was
coming at me so fast. Like I was just kind of like,
oh, OK, Day 2. What's happening now?
Yeah, and then day three. Oh my God, right.
And OK, so be wrapped. What happens now?
(07:04):
So so much of it is like. Not knowing.
Not knowing and figuring out on the way, but in the second movie
I feel like. Yeah, tell me, tell me like how
did it feel like prepping that? And like, yeah, tell me like
your how your mind was. Because you're going to do it
soon. Someday I need to sleep for a
second. Yeah, of course, after you
sleep. No, but like I'm really curious
(07:24):
about that, obviously. Yeah.
Well, I think that what's amazing is that you just kind
of, I felt really lucky doing it.
Like every day I feel like I gotunsaid and I'll find my first AD
and I'll just be like, and he'lltell me like everything that
isn't going according to plan, things that are going to
according to plan, all the difficult news from the morning.
(07:45):
And then I'll just listen to everything.
I'll be like, OK, we're going tofigure all those things out.
But how lucky that we get to make a movie today, right?
It sounds like we can still go today.
So I think that that part of it is so special.
And also, I mean, I got to make the movie that I wanted to
afford those movies, you know? Yes, how did it because there's
(08:06):
there's a real gift in the privacy of making a first movie
and not having the visibility because it's just you and your
people and and no eyes that are watching for weird reasons.
And how did you navigate like walking into with so much
visibility? Like you seriously are like so
known and I feel like the percentage of like, I mean, I
(08:32):
don't know how it felt inside ofit, but like how many people I
think saw you not just, you know, saw the film, but like saw
you inside it. Like it was a remarkable moment.
And it's a, it's such a lasting film.
And like, how did it feel walking into with that
visibility? Like did it like 'cause you were
saying like you felt pretty grateful.
(08:52):
Like that's an amazing way to toprocess that the like potential
pressure of visibility and to being like, I'm grateful to be
here. Well, is that most of it?
Well. I feel like some of it is like,
first of all, I'm not that known, but I feel like in New
York, of course, maybe more. Yeah.
Because it's, you know, past lives.
Such a New York movie. Yeah, I made it here already.
(09:12):
Own place. Yeah.
And then also, like, your footprint is so huge, and then
you know, you're taking over a whole block, right?
A movie, right? Right.
And it disrupts it. Disrupts, of course, and
everybody's like, what? What are you shooting here, you
know? And is it worth blocking my
truck? Yeah.
Exactly. So but I think it's like some of
it is about, well, you can take that as that attention or that
(09:33):
all the visibility as a thing that is like really in the way
and it's very annoying, yes. Or you can really think of it as
like, well, how amazing that everybody wants to know what my
next movie is going to be, right, right.
Because that what that means is that they're interested and
that. If they're around, they're
there. They're waiting.
And the dream is that if the dream is that you're somebody
who makes culture, if you're somebody who gets to have an
(09:55):
audience that you hope to grow and expand and find new corners
in, then you there's a part of it.
You just have to be like, so cool that everybody cares, you
know? Why is this therapy?
Yeah. I mean, I feel like it's always
good, you know, it's called any conversation I think has a
therapeutic element if you get deep enough.
You know, they keep us apart. They have a director, own
(10:16):
movies. We don't get to talk as much.
We just don't but but I think that that's why I kind of really
like this. Yeah, it's nice.
Yeah. I feel like it meant a lot
because I did the one that I didbefore with Sofia Coppola, and
that I feel like that was one ofthose most moments where you
just get to sit and you just talk about like what this all
actually feels. Like, right, I know because it's
(10:37):
such a such a weird and you catch each other at really weird
times. Like, Oh yeah, every week is
different. Oh yeah.
And then my other thing I wantedto say about what you said
before, like I feel like I'm understanding now how little
time it is that you're you get to be on set in the scheme of
making a film. Like I don't think I understood
(10:57):
that when I was walking into it.I thought on set was like the
big and it is like so big, but time wise, it's like this blip
in the making of a film. And like, the further I get from
it, like I understand why that time is so precious, like as
artists, because it's where you really get to work.
Yeah, well, that's why you're all, that's what you're all
(11:18):
doing together, right? Right.
And it's also where the team is the.
Biggest Yes, it's true, but I do.
Think that being a filmmaker, being the director, it's like
you get to know every single person who works on the movie in
a way that no one else does. Yes.
And you're you have A and it feels like people come in as
like it's like a quest and like,I mean, it's like the really
(11:40):
important part of the piece, like, and you meet sort of like
after after production, which isso hectic and like adrenaline
fueled. You get to go do the edit, which
is like kind of the balm to production, which is time, but
also it's like a nightmare. But it's also intimate in this
way that's new. Like it's a very cool job.
Well, it's like everybody is like showing up for the great
affair. Right.
(12:01):
Like, it's if you're kind of like having this amazing,
beautiful creative affair for different phases of your making
a movie. Yeah.
But then at the end of the day, the whole thing is you're the
only one who has the whole picture, right?
And you're the only one who knows the studio head and who's,
you know, signing the checks andalso the guy who's carrying the
boom mic, Yes. But you're the one who knows all
(12:23):
of them, yes. So in a way, it's like this
amazing thing where you just getto see the picture of like every
single person who touches this movie, yes.
It's big and it's and it becomesand you give the movie away over
and over and that and that is nice.
Oh yeah, I mean like when the tothe collaborators.
Yes. Or like it just it's like so
(12:43):
much. It becomes everyone's film in a
way that's like, really that. That part I find to be very
special. Well, I feel like the moment
where the department heads and then everybody truly, I mean
down to the as when they start to know what movie we're all
making. And then my favorite thing is
whenever my department heads just know the answers to the
(13:05):
questions, there's a moment in prep where it's because it used
to be that I'm the only person who could have answers.
And eventually I'll like my DP will know the right answer and
then he will actually know it before me faster, better, right?
And that's really magical. And of course, it happens with
cast too. I mean, in your case, you're in
your film. No, but I mean the cast like
saves my life. Of course, because I mean they
(13:27):
are thinking about what they have to do.
Well, that is, you know that that I love that like someone
becomes the the like advocate for their thing and then they
become the expert. So and, and that to me with the
casting process, like the joy ofgiving words to someone and then
trusting that they understand that person more than like the
(13:50):
giving away, especially to actors, obviously to other like
to designers who and everyone. But but there was something
really special about being able to give away these slices of of
these people and and then they become whole people in front of
your eyes. Like, and you don't totally
understand how it got there, butit's.
But it's just now it's a whole person because it's, yeah.
(14:11):
It's always better. I always think about this.
Right? Yeah.
Because like the person's bringing their whole humanity to
the words on the page, which is like the words on a page is just
a suggestion of a person. Yes.
Right. It's like walk down this road if
you're interested, and then continue the road yourself
because you're the only one thatknows how to do it.
It's such a beautiful, it's sucha beautiful collaboration.
(14:33):
I know I love it. Well, I feel like when it comes
to the way that the like actors show up for it, it's like I feel
like if you give them room, but the room has to be something
that is within the bounds of what you know about the
character. But as long as the walls of that
room is clear, the actor can fill it with their.
Soul. Yeah, it's so.
Magical, you know. But that with materialists.
(14:56):
Watch that's. Really.
That's what it was, Yeah. Yeah.
You kind of like, it's like a bit of like there is a bit of a
target like that we all talk about as a target we're trying
to hit. How do you talk about that?
We talk. About like what I know about the
character. You have to communicate
everything I know about the character.
Yes. And then of course there is a
always going to be a conversation.
(15:17):
And my rehearsals are more like table work.
It's not really. We don't really beat the lines,
yeah. We just kind of go through every
line and we talk about if anybody has questions, what I
know about that line or what themeaning of that line, what's
going on and then. Do you do you do rehearsals
before? Like what is your rehearsal
process? Like I do it during prep and
(15:39):
then of course when we hit the set, the day begins with
rehearsal. For the whole day or just for
the the scene you're doing? So the scene I'm doing.
OK, just checking. Yeah, yeah, scene you're doing
and like when everybody's there and then we all like, but a part
of the rehearsal is actually just more like blocking.
I agree, yeah. What about you?
I mean also, how do you do, I need to ask, how do you do it
(16:01):
while you're in the scene as a main character?
Too, Yeah. I mean, honestly, I prepared
everything to the point of insanity because I have a ton of
anxiety and my way through the, the like year before I shot the
film was preparing the directing.
Like I mean, as best as you can before prep, just like thinking
(16:22):
through everything and, and, andstoryboarding so that I could
kind of because I never made anything.
So I was like, I need to create visuals to understand if I like
them. Like I had to sort of draw.
And then my acting prep was a lot.
It was just, it was kind of liketable work stuff too, where I
just sat with my acting coach and we talked about sort of this
person's transformation and how much we needed to convey in the
(16:46):
few scenes we have before my character goes through something
really intense. And then sort of this journey
and how to just kind of stay honest with every moment.
And, and it was, I mean, I, I did have an acting coach who we
just being able to talk out loud.
It's like sort of the director and the actor get to do together
often and and it was important that I had someone to work with
(17:10):
in that way. And then like, honestly, with
Naomi, she's just so good. So it's like, yeah, she's she's
amazing. She can do anything.
And like when we met, there was just like chemistry.
And it was much more for me in that relationship in the film
about capturing the ease of thatthen then any sort of like thing
(17:33):
we had to hit because like the beginning of the film was simply
trying to create an atmosphere of joy and like welcoming for my
audience so that we feel held during like the harder parts.
But but but yeah, I I something I miss about like having gone to
acting school and doing plays isthe lengthy rehearsal process.
(17:54):
Like that is act like that is the acting dream is to get time
and time and time to just talk through everything and and and
to get to do the play in one go.You know, like that it so so how
does it how how is it making film like do you like it?
I mean, I love it. Yeah.
Well, I think what you're talking about, that's something
(18:15):
that I feel like is a new way ofthinking about it because you're
right. A play lives in is born, and it
dies in one night, in one performance.
And it was, again and again. But you do it every and over
again. Exactly.
And every night it's like it lives a little differently
because of the audience is different, the actor's mood is
different. But the thing about film like
this is kind of the way that I think about it, which is that
(18:37):
every day when you're doing a scene, part of it is that you're
trying to part of putting it in the can and finishing that scene
is to kill it, right? So as you're kind of like
carrying out like because we also shot on film.
So part of it is like we're literally carrying out cans of
film. And I would always say, well,
those are just little body partsof this movie, right?
And some right. And some days you're making
(18:59):
little, you know, like little fingers.
Sometimes you're making a whole face, right?
And you're just, and you know, you're and I get eyes later,
right? Or sometimes you're being like,
we need a whole today's a day. We shoot the whole torso.
Yes, like this is a big torso day.
Exactly. And then you get all these
different party parts and it always, I would always laugh
because I would watch the cans of film that we shot carried out
(19:19):
and I was like, well, there is alittle body part that we shot
today, right? And preserve.
That. Exactly.
And then in in post production, you basically get to bring all
the body parts in you source through it.
And then and then you start to sew it like it's kind of like
you're you're Frankenstein, Dr. Frankenstein and you're kind of
sewing together different party parts.
(19:41):
And the goal, at least for me, is to sew it so intricately and
so seamlessly that the audience thinks that the end product is,
which is something that we put together, sound, picture,
everything. This thing that so many, like
hundreds of people worked on to create perfect body parts and
(20:02):
then just sew it on the right way the whole time is scripted.
You're dreaming that this Frankenstein's monster is the
audience thinks that it has a mother.
Right, isn't like that. It was just born that way and
then no one made. It there's like effortlessness.
Effortless, so much so that you want the audience to fall in
(20:23):
love. It's just the beauty of this
human being. To not see the stitches to.
Not see the stitches. That's so.
Beautiful. And you know what's interesting
about that is like something that is crazy about the edit is
discovering like, OK, so this foot can be the most beautiful
foot you've ever seen it on its own.
Then the second it goes on the body, it's like the body's
rejecting the foot. Oh yeah.
Or like it's choosing ugly foot.Yeah.
So the foot has been longer and weirder shaped, but only because
(20:46):
this body requires that. Like that part is the fun crazy.
And it's so crazy that you're trying to build the best body
part possible to withstand the future.
But like you're also kind of like, I don't know what's like,
I, I, I'm making really thoughtful guesses about what's
going to fit together. But like man, that body on the
(21:07):
other side takes a second. Well, but my thing is like, I
think on your second movie, and this is my experience that you
kind of get to realize that you're like, well, I just know
that I need to get these few different sizes for the body
parts because just in case like I'm like, Oh, it's so it's
because of course, when you're trying to especially when like
(21:28):
the set piece is beautiful and everything, you're looking for
the biggest, most spectacular body part and trying to get
that. But then you have to sort of
there's you kind of, I feel likeI feel you're already going to
know. They have the instinct being
like. Well in the edit.
I know that I might need a smaller version of.
That body part? Tiny finger.
Or I might be like, oh, to withstand that body part, I need
(21:50):
bigger feet. So when we get to the feet part,
then we'll be like, right, Like it's.
Kind of love this. Right.
I think it's a. It's a.
Beautiful image because it's true and I think it works in
like 100 ways. Yeah.
And, and The thing is like when you're shaving like because I
shave like whatever, 2 frames sometimes and you're like, well,
you're doing that. So that like that little stitch
that's sticking out, you can't see.
(22:12):
Right, yes. I mean, that work is so
euphoric, a little stitch work because that's after you.
That is something that you it's like a reward.
And in writing too, like I feel like that's what I'm always
hoping for is that I get to the place with a project where I'm
like, I'm reading, I'm reading, I'm reading.
There's a stitch out of place and, and fixing the stitch like,
(22:33):
but you only get there after, but you only get there after.
Oh my God, it's so long. But you don't also don't know
when it's going to happen, right?
Because sometimes it's happeningin the writing, sometimes it
happens in production. So you think sometimes.
So yeah. So tell me about how you write.
Like because do you ever go intolike how many stitches should
(22:57):
show? Like because I feel like in my
head, the idea is like in the writing, like the idea that you
try to make the body in the writing as seamless as possible
so that when you get to the nextthing and you chop up the body
again, you can put it back together and you don't see the
first it, you know, like but do you haven't like, is that how
you think about it? Or are you like I this is how
(23:17):
much I need to know to go into shooting this like for your
writing? Well, I feel like if you can cut
something from your script before you go into production,
what I learned is that you should, right?
It's never going to show up and be necessary.
Because if you feel like you don't need it, the chances that
(23:39):
you don't, Right. But I think that that instinct,
it's sometimes I found it reallyhard to navigate when I was
making my when I was making pastlives, the first movie, because
I would be like, I have an instinct.
Yeah. Like my instinct is that I don't
need it. But then you're scared because
you don't know. Yeah.
So you're like, OK, well, we'll shoot it and then we put all
these resources into it and thenit ends up in the hitting room
(24:01):
floor. Right, Right.
And even in. But I feel like also, it also
has to do with how you want to do it.
Like my editor's experience for 10 years has been with Terrence
Malick, right? Terrence I mean, so I know that
he works in a way where he's notworried about how many extra
(24:22):
body parts he ends up with, right?
Right. So he so I think it depends on
the filmmaker. Like I feel like different film
makers probably do it differently.
Totally. Like but for materialists, I
feel like almost everything we shoot is in the movie.
Because you already edited like through and maybe you're someone
who is like, I don't want extra body partners, I want more time
to make the body parts. Or something that to me, because
(24:43):
it was like that way you can putthe resources into the
individual body part because you're kind of like, well, if it
means that I can have, right? Like always a compromise.
It's like if I have to go quick on this, I want this.
Yeah, yeah. Well, what was the process for
you in writing? Sorry baby.
You know, I had it was I was making the things that he would
have told me I cut from the filmlater.
(25:04):
You would have had to like actually like chain me up to get
me to cut those. Those are the reasons I made
that. Like, there were scenes that
were the reasons I felt like thefilm got made.
Yeah. Just these like, little, there
were little like interludes throughout the film that I felt
were so, like, important for forrelief.
And then something really clear happened in the edit where those
(25:28):
scenes felt like just tension isjust diffused and like, it was
so slow. But like, and then the film just
felt like they were like it was rejecting the scenes that I feel
like the idea of them I loved, but and then the things that I
ended up keeping that felt so essential.
There were a couple moments on set where I was like, I don't,
this doesn't feel so right that like once they were in, I was
(25:51):
very like moved by how little I knew and how much guessing was
involved in in how the edit would happen.
And I am so curious like about Idon't, I don't feel like I'll
know exactly what I learned fromthat until I try again because.
That's true. I don't know if I would.
(26:12):
I don't know if I have learned to actually cut that thing or if
make shooting that is actually important for another reason I
don't understand. But you know what's crazy is
that like I'm like something crazy is that like every movie
is a new universe. So like sure, you can make a
film, but like I've never directed a film not in it.
(26:33):
So I only know about that flow and like, I've yes, I've
directed this film, but I've never directed one that looks
like this with this kind of world, you know, and and that
part's obviously the reason why it's amazing to get to make more
than one movie and why we want to do that.
But also it's continually like terrifying because it's like
(26:54):
you're building, it's like building another body that is a
it's like an animal you've neverseen or something.
It's like but you don't know what it's supposed to look like
till it's. Well, the problem is that it's a
process like life, right? As in, like, how amazing that
you're gonna get to do another one.
Plus a part of that is that you're also risking a lot,
right? But just like life, right?
(27:16):
So I do think that you're talking about like, yeah, I wish
that we get to make our movies. It's out.
It's going great. Your film's going so great.
And then you wish that, you know, like, OK, well, that's it.
That's the end of my life. Right, right.
Like this would be a great time to end.
Yeah, but The thing is like, themovies are over.
A movie is out into the world. And in a way it's like, you're
right. It's not yours because you can't
(27:37):
now. You can't go to the movie
theaters and like try to like fix it and do more time and
sound or something. You have to let it be right.
And it's like, so in a way, creatively, it's no longer a lie
for you because you can't do anything.
For it huge grief, but. Something that I know really
alleviates that grief for me is to think about the next thing
(27:57):
right And then. The only.
Way. It's the only way I mean.
It's the only thing that you have, yeah.
Everything else is put on you like.
Everything else, everything you're doing so that you can
support the child you made that is now walking and living, and
it's going to meet their people on their own.
And you have to be there to support this kid, right?
Sent to college. And you know, bye like but like
(28:18):
miss you and I hope you, I hope you're.
OK, Yeah, I hope I like gave youeverything you needed, you know,
but then you just have to let that kind of be.
And then what's what's amazing is that we just can continue
thinking about the next thing. So that's that's the only
relief. Oh, yeah.
Well, I, I what I was saying, what I was thinking was that you
(28:39):
know how you were saying that you want to sleep first before
you're. I don't though.
I know I said that, but I kind of made that up.
Yeah, but I want to sleep up foran hour and then make.
Yes, like about a couple of hours, you know, just feel like
2 hours that's enough. But, but for me, it's like,
well, I, I was so lucky to support my movie through all the
award stuff. So what happened was that after
(29:00):
the So I went to the Oscars, which was so cool.
Damn it. Was it was real damn.
Like it was really cool. It was so.
And then after I went to that, the next day I flew back to New
York. The day after that I was on a
scout van to make materials. No, you weren't.
Yes, I was. And so you knew that whole time
you were going to that scout van.
Whole I was, I knew it. Must have been so good for your
(29:21):
like it was. So fun, like I feel like because
of course, you know, like past lives, it's kind of a long
grieving process of like, well, that movie is what it is.
And then. But of course that's something
to remember for us, I think in general is that yeah, so it
might be over for us when it comes to that particular movie.
Maybe it's dead to us, but it's alive in the audience, right,
(29:42):
right. The offer audience, every
audience, new member, every new member of the audience who sees
the movie, it's it's comes back to life.
Right, it's a baby again for. Yeah, and then for and then I
think it's amazing because then we get to live vicariously
through the way that the audience sees it.
So if they're like, oh, I reallyit meant something to me, then I
feel I always feel like I'm alive again in it, right.
(30:05):
So that I really love. But but then you know what I
what I think the favorite, the best part is like, yeah, you're
right. Those, you know, 12 hours, 1214
hours every day, we're like, they're like 600 people who's
working on the movie, right? We're like in the office on set.
And then we're all just like, hustling together.
Yeah. And it's like, you can't, you
(30:25):
can't. You have.
It just requires presents. Yeah.
And so you and I think so much of this part of like putting out
the film is so about like, like you like me or whatever.
And actually the thing I remember feeling relieved by was
(30:46):
people feeling connected to the script and the film we were
making. Because it really does making
the film actually does take the attention off of like how you
are and puts it on clarity of the story you're trying to tell.
And that shift of like, it's notabout me.
It's about this thing. And it stands over here and
we're all looking at that, that I find to be really helpful.
(31:07):
And the thing I'm also missing is like, we're all looking at
the thing, not at me, you know, like that.
And, and that is helpful. And there's work like you just
have to, and there's stuff to dowhen you're making a movie that
is, it's good to stay busy with the stuff you're doing because
it keeps you on track with what your, your point, the point of
(31:27):
your life is, you know? Well, you don't think that
they're all looking at you because I feel like I mean for
me, I feel like being a directoralways is that you are the my
joke is that I'm the mother, sister, daughter, right to every
single person who's working on the movie right, Like I'm I'm
(31:48):
like in charge and taking care of you as like in the mother
way. Yes, I'm also your sister and
that I'm your equal and you weregonna talk it out.
We're going to Yeah, and we're going to be confidant.
So we're going to figure that out.
And then I'm also someone to be protected for my vision
everything like a daughter and then like and also what I want,
if I trust to get me right get to happen.
(32:09):
So I feel like it's this kind oflike you kind of get to be all
you are the center of the, the what is it the kind of like
this, this thing that is being that we're all doing together,
right? So everybody's looking at you
because I feel like I answer 1000 questions a day.
(32:29):
Right, but they're looking at you in relationship to the piece
yes, of course not like just youfor the sake of you.
No, you know, like there is something different about
there's like a purpose to you'relike the mother of the of the
thing of people. No.
But, but I think that's true. But I feel like how you are as a
person will define how we're making the movie.
(32:50):
Oh well, that's totally. True.
That's true. So in that way, it's like, well,
I think about that so much. I feel like how I respond or how
I behave, it's going to reverberate throughout the whole
set. Right.
There's like cells in it and thecells are in the film.
Like it's totally intense. It is intense.
So in that way, I feel like you're right, my goal, right, my
(33:11):
goal is for it to be all about the movie.
But as the person who is holdingthe movie in my mind and who
does know everybody from, you know, the highest, highest paid
person on set to the lowest person on set, I know everybody,
right? In that way, I just feel like
I'm responsible for everyone's like everyone's work, like I'm
(33:37):
responsible for everyone's. I couldn't say.
And I'm also like, we could think about this, which is that
for like 12 to 14 hours a day, these grown adults, these grown
union like adults are giving, like giving their life for
giving their lives for 12 to 14 hours in pursuit of this thing
(34:01):
that isn't me yet. And is I really have a genuine
question about how tangible it is.
Yeah, I think about because of course in the it's in the hard
drive or it's in a, you know, can like their tangibility to
the movie. But it's also in the air like.
Yeah, it's about the living through it, like the audience is
experiencing it and that's the only, that's the final product.
(34:23):
Yes, it's the experience of it. No, you're experience.
It's like it's not the DVD, it'sthe time you spend watching the
film. And that either that either
like, yeah, it lodges itself into someone or it moves through
them, but either way, it's aboutthat person's relationship to
what they're experiencing. And that is that you cannot
hold. No, I mean, you're asking also
the audience to give two hours of their lives.
(34:46):
I mean, that to me is the thing that is the thing of like the
the honor. Yeah, I feel, yes, honor that
someone spent two hours of theirlives.
Yeah. And also they got there and they
they're leaving. They're going back like that.
Sometimes they get babysitters. And I'm like, no, you got a
babysitter and they buy candy and it's like because they want
(35:07):
to eat candy while watching the movie, because they want to
escape and they want to feel like it's sensory and they want
to like, no. And that's what we do.
Like that's why I feel like that's why movies took my heart
is because it's like I got to give two hours and get a life
back too in a way. Like there's but it's also a
risk because it's like you spendsometimes you spend 2 hours and
(35:31):
it it wasn't it. Was a waste of your.
Time yeah, but it's also like, but there's also something about
like I tried like I, I was interested in engaging with that
and for some reason it didn't move me the way I wanted it to
but like I'm gonna go back like people go back because they're
like I'm gonna and that's why there's so many movies yeah,
it's because like. And that's the that's the
(35:52):
coolest is that there's not one movie.
It's like you find what moves you.
Oh, yeah. But you have to give it enough
time to like, find what moves you.
Oh. Yeah.
And also like, yeah, it's a it'sa question when you walk into a
thing. And I feel like in a world where
where everybody's trying to be risk averse, it is really hard
to be like, hey, take a risk on this thing, right.
(36:13):
It's original story, right? Yeah.
It's from this person that you may have heard of, Maybe you
haven't. Yeah.
And I think you'll be great. It could be right, Right.
So it's such a wild thing to promise.
And then of course, as everybodybecoming like, well, my time is
worth this. And there's a lot of risk averse
(36:34):
culture. Yeah, right.
It's kind of hard to be increasingly or it's always hard
to be like, hey, like take a risk on, you know, giving us
like 2 hours of your life. Right.
It's a huge ask. It's a big ask.
But my thing is like, if you were able to think about their
responsibility, and I mean, use the word honor, right?
It's like some of it is about like really seeing it as like,
(36:56):
well, it is an honor to have it,so I'm not going to disrespect
it. Yeah.
Right. And then, and it may be that
like I know that at the end of the day, all I'm doing is that
I'm risking as much as you. Yeah, right.
I mean, yes. And I'm giving you everything I
have. And that's doing the stitches,
Yes. And making the stitches.
(37:17):
It's like I'm giving you every, every.
I'm caring. I care so much.
Well, I'm giving you, I'm givingyou, you know, like what a final
mixes are 12 hours days and I'm there the whole time.
And then of course my sound designers are there 12 to 14
hours a day. And my thing is like, well,
these are people who have devoted their lives to sound
(37:38):
design, for example, right? Well, like my DP is somebody who
devoted his life to image making.
You're going to see these incredible grown up
professionals give everything they know, giving all of
themselves to the art of this thing.
And my thing is like, well, that's the, that's what we're
(37:59):
actually able to offer. Because if you show up for two
hours, you get to see. All of.
Us do our yeah. Craftsmanship.
I've been a writer for like 20 years, you know, like we're all
showing up basically being like doing, giving you like, not just
like little bit of image, littlebit of sound, little bit of
writing. We're showing up to give you our
(38:21):
whole life, right? Yeah.
Because my my script or my DPS images, it's not coming from
like ether you didn't just like plug it into you plug into AI
and then, you know, pop it out. What happened?
Was that you? You build it from the ground
like. We worked, we failed, we worked
(38:41):
again and then right I. Missed that part.
No, it is really good. You're going to get there.
You're going to do it soon, you know.
What I mean, you're going to be.On set like 2 seconds.
You know, it's just, it's I totally, it's like I actually
can't believe it's real. What just being able to do this.
I know it's crazy. It's.
Really cool. It's really cool.
(39:03):
And there's so many parts of it.And every time you do a new
part, you're like, what are you talking about?
That's part of this job. Like it's such a special job.
Oh yeah, it's such and it's true.
Like. Really lucky, yeah.
It's a really crazy thing to have people what you're saying
about like they're giving their days of their lives to create
this with you and, and it's supreme focus and it's everyone
(39:27):
doing the best that they can. And that is, it is like so life
affirming to be in a space whereeveryone's doing that.
Yeah, it's very rare, of course.And everyone who's there
understands why you're there. So there's no explaining like
what we're doing. I mean, talk about being seen.
Yes. Yes, I feel the most seen when
(39:48):
I'm on my set. That's where I feel the most
seen outside of like my home. Yes.
You know, I feel like that's theplace where I feel like, oh, I
know everybody sees me because Ifeel like it's also where I feel
like very, very, very human. Yeah.
You know, because like, I don't know if some of it is about
like, it's just the energy of itor it's just the passion of it
(40:11):
that we're all like, yeah, we'renot showing up to.
We're not here to fuck around. No, we're doing this.
Yeah, you know, and. Once you're in, you're like once
the timeline starts, yeah, that should just fucking go I.
Know and it's so cool and I think it's like and also you get
exactly how much you care out ofit right I think about that in
terms of like how much like careis involved and I'm always like
(40:31):
well if you don't care then you'll get less out of it yeah
and then if you care a lot you don't get a lot out of it yes
right this is a person. Yes.
No, no, totally. Yeah.
This is so nice talking to you. It's so nice talking to you.
Seriously. Seriously.
Can't believe it? So I feel like something I
(40:52):
genuinely, I'm like, well, were you able to direct yourself in
your like or did you kind of like go in like how many ticks
would you do? Yeah, it would be like, it would
be like, well, the first few days we scheduled lighter
because I we had to figure out the flow.
I'd never done it and I think weusually the flow would be I had
to stand in, which is so helpful.
(41:13):
So I'd set up the shot with the stand in and then I would do it
and then watch that. And I would only really watch
that for shape, like is this howthe shots meant to move?
Is is there anything in this that doesn't feel like what I'm
what I want? Then once I we felt what the
shot was figured out and, and any adjustments have been made,
I would do a probably a run of it until I felt like it was what
(41:36):
I wanted. And, and, and then I would
usually watch what I liked but without sound.
And it was mostly just like is the vibe of is it there?
And because I feel like I knew what happened emotionally or I
knew what I just knew what happened, but I just wanted to
make sure I saw it through. But I just, I didn't usually
watch the sound because I was like, and sometimes stuff was
(41:58):
heavy and I was like, it's easier for me as a director to
just see shape and then I would,I would know pretty soon I
would. The thing that was efficient was
I noted myself. So there was no sort of like
having to figure out our flow like it was.
I knew the adjustments I wanted to make performance wise pretty
quickly. And it was, you know, really
(42:20):
nice to be sort of working with actors from an act in scenes as
a director, because there's sortof this like inherent trust
because like I'm in the trenchestoo.
Like we're both being really vulnerable.
And there were a couple scenes in the film where I directed to
people who and I wasn't in the scene and I was, it was like a
totally different experience of like, I want you to know I I'm
(42:44):
with you. Like it's like, but you're
vulnerable. You're the ones in front of the
camera and like, I want you to trust that.
I see that. That's insane.
And like, and sometimes I would be like, oh, I like I've it
would be like a learning curve of trying to figure out how to
get in there and how to have find language for those people.
(43:06):
But. Yes, I feel like the reason why
I was asking is because I feel like such a big part of my
relationship to my actors is my objectivity, right?
Because they have to so fully embody the subjectivity of the
characters that they're not. I don't, I never want to ask my
actors to also be in charge of the objectivity.
(43:26):
Yes. And of course, like I am working
with like 3, like just insanely professional, like excellent,
like lifelong actors because like all three of them, like
Dakota, Chris and Pedro, like all of them just have such
experience like, like just working, right?
So the part of the thing that I really found is that like, and I
think this is something that I found in any actor who has
(43:48):
really long experience working is that they have a way to see
their performance a little bit objectively because part is
protectiveness, right? And then of course, after you
build a certain amount of trust and they're they never able to.
Release that and let. Go and then just let it be a
subjective work. And I think that to me, getting
(44:10):
to that place is something that I'm working on and usually the
first week. Right, Yes.
And is it with each person a different way to both?
Of course, Yes, yes, of. Course, because if it was a
different person, so you have a different relationship with each
person. Yes.
And I think that it's like and Ithink.
Mother, sister, daughter. Mother, sister, daughter, right.
It's like you kind of have to approach the every relationship
(44:31):
and also every scene differentlybecause it's also like some
scenes are bigger scenes for onecharacter, yes.
Or even like within the scene, the whole I'm like, well, first
part of the scene is all about Dakota's character Lucy, you
know, Second part of the scene is all about Pedro's character,
Harry. So we're kind of always dealing
with like, you know, it's a bit of a sparring of like it's a
(44:55):
movie where it's a sparring of ideas.
So, so much of it has to do withlike each person really
committing to the subjectivity. So I have to then be able to
tell them that I'm in charge of the objective.
As in, like, I'm the person who tells them how it reads.
Yes, right. So it's like I can take that
burden off of you and tell you Ihave, I have.
I feel like that's always the offer.
(45:16):
And I think that usually the first week is an opportunity for
all of us to build that trust. Yeah, right.
So that we can all walk away from it feeling like it's really
awesome. And also, I mean, the way that
all three of them are like, likefor example, when I'm noting,
the reason why I was asking about noting is that it's like
(45:37):
the rhythm of noting is different for each actor.
So I was just thinking like how those one note oneself because
like, well, the problem with like, because I'm a very bad
actor. Are you I'm?
Really bad? Really.
When have you done it? I've not really done it.
I was in the. Short I'm I'm in general bad,
but I was in a play once and I did a short film once.
(46:01):
OK. And the problem with me in that
situation is that I will do a piece of performance and then in
the middle of a performance, I'll be noting it, right.
But then that is really connected to the way that I note
as a director, because I'm usually writing something down
about what I want to note. Look, while it's happening.
(46:24):
Like I'll hear something, I'm like, oh, I know.
And then it's also, so I mean, that part's so fun because I
also know why it's not, it's theright thing.
It's almost just. Is you're not as an.
It's like you answering the thing you had a question about.
Like, and I get to learn about myself and I get to learn about
them. So it's a, it's a very, I think
noting is romantic. Yeah, it's a romantic
(46:46):
relationship, right? Because, yeah, some of it is
about like you're kind of tryingto like offer something.
And of course, like different actors, like the rhythm of a
note is it's something that we're finding in the first.
Yes. It's also something that we're
finding in the first week. Yeah, the first week.
Like I feel like usually I'm like, like, because we're trying
(47:08):
things. Yeah, totally.
I mean, the thing about it beingromantic is so true because it's
like, I see something in you andI'm seeing something and I have
an idea of where this could go and like, but I don't know.
And we have to decide together. Like there's a real kind of leap
of faith of like to me and notice sort of like I have a
(47:32):
hypothesis about something that could be over an interesting
road to walk down, but I don't know what's going to happen at
the end of the road. Are you interested in walking
down the road with me and doing this this way to see what we
come up with together? It's like a very intimate.
Yeah. And that's.
Oh yeah, and also we get to learn what are how he grew up
(47:52):
too. Like, it's kind of like you get
to learn about the culture that we all grew up in.
Like the way communication lands.
Yeah, because I'm like, well, I'm like, I might have used a
certain word and that word is actually not translating because
it means something else to them.Like I feel like that was really
fun with for example, cause what's what's amazing about
(48:13):
working with Dakota is that likeShahur and I, I think because
like I have a banks. IVI both of you have banks both.
Have banks, but also, you know, we're both, I was maybe going to
be a psychologist, like a psychology major in college.
So I was doing that. And I think she's so savvy about
like psychological language in general.
(48:33):
So I feel like something about like our language was already
pretty immediate. And so that with her, the rhythm
would be very like she would just try.
The first take would be rolling and then the between the 1st and
2nd take, we would talk about itin a language that would be so
fast. And so we would talk about it as
almost telepathic, because we would barely have to be fully
(48:55):
articulate for us to know why that's cool, what we're missing
for the first one. You both agree, kind of.
We would. And then the second text you
will just know, wow, yeah, I know.
And then the third take will start to try new things. 4th
take. It was kind of like that.
When you were shooting that likedid, did you feel that on set
and then also in the edit that was the same?
(49:16):
Oh, yeah. Well, and then when it comes to
Chris, for example, you know, like he and I, I think the first
week we were trying to figure out different language because
of like, because he's like a, I don't know, like he's from a,
like a kind of like a different generation.
And also like he's a guy from Boston.
Yeah. He's a Boston guy.
Like he's a Boston guy, so therewas a part of where I'd be like,
(49:36):
I would use the word like humbleand he would understand it in in
a different way. So we'd be kind of like aligning
some of those languages, right. But the thing that I really love
about working with him is that he there are a couple of things
that like, you know, wouldn't just make me and Dakota like
laugh so much, which is that like when he hits the when he
attempt to roll and he comes andhits the mark, he goes, all
(49:58):
right, let's fucking act. He says it every time.
He says that like not every time, but sometimes when he's
like sucking himself and he shows he's like, all right,
let's fucking act. Oh my God, so sweet.
And then the other and then in between when I give him notes.
And with him it would be more like because I sometimes you're
trying to dole out a few notes at a time, but with him, I give
(50:18):
him all 10 he wants. To know.
He wants to know, he wants to hear everything.
And then in the next take, it's amazing.
He'll do all of it, right? And The thing is like, he's
really technical. When I give him a note for the
next take, he hears that we talkabout it, and he goes, all
right, got it, Watch this. That's so.
(50:38):
Sweet, honestly. Like the beauty of that is he is
creating new energy to lighten the moment so that the next
thing can be free. It's like, it's like almost like
returning everyone to childhood.Yeah, like we're playing.
Yes. It's like, let's fucking X like
that's that's like a way to takeany tension out of the room.
It's cool. That's amazing.
OK, How about Pedro do everyone?Well, I feel like Pedro.
(51:00):
I mean, with Pedro, I feel like so much of it is about like in
such like abstract language sometimes like we will kind of
get into it in a way where we'relike, again, I think it's
similar to the way it is with Dakota, where it's very
philosophical and psychological.And then it's usually before we
roll. That's when we talk a lot
before. Oh, interesting.
(51:20):
And then he goes and then we andthen we just keep going.
Second take. Third take.
In the. In the yeah, because in between
and then I feel like when it comes to notes, it's always
about like something that like Iwould usually just give him a
word or something that we already talked about in the
before we started rolling. Oh my God, how it is like
they're different. There's something very like
(51:43):
familial, something very like intimate and like, yes, deep
about like learning how someone needs to be communicated with.
It's very loving. I mean, to learn how someone
receives a note because being anactor is so vulnerable and like,
you're just throwing yourself. And you know what?
This is like something I feel like I really understood for the
(52:05):
first time is how, how how much control actors let go of how
much they give you and then how much trust they have that you
will take care of them on the other side.
And that responsibility is intense and so powerful.
It's so powerful to be given that gift of like I did all
these takes for you. I let you choose which one that
(52:28):
you think fits on the body and I'm going to be the face of the
of the body or whatever. Like, and that I feel like it's
really made me think about, you know, the future.
And like, you really do have to,you have to work with people who
are, who are going to learn, learn you as a whole person,
(52:49):
like who care enough to, to see you as full, because that's how
you can hand your whole self offto them and trust that they'll
put it together in a way that honours like your soul.
Totally. And I think it's like with great
power comes great responsibility, you know what I
mean? Like that?
Isn't that just like? Ain't that the truth?
That is like the. Thesis of what we can.
(53:11):
It's like it's just a lot of responsibility.
And I feel like if you take thatvery, very seriously, you know,
and, and the whole thing is likeevery day you're showing up and
you're promising everyone we're gonna make a great movie today.
Yes, we're gonna make a great movie today.
You know, of course to all the actors, but also every single
person works in the movie. Yeah.
Did we do it? We finished.
I think we did. That's the end of the podcast.
(53:33):
The weird way to end?
Hi, I'm Sneen Song. And I'm Eva Victor, and this is
the A 24 podcast. Wait, why did I nail it?
Are we doing it right now? I think we're doing it right
now. That's so awesome because it was
such a seamless transition. You wouldn't even know we're
doing the podcast. Yeah, when they were saying it's
like, well, who would you do? I was like, who would I do a
podcast with for this movie? And I was like, and then when
(00:20):
you asked and I was like, Oh my.God, thank you for doing.
It we can do it together. Did you see Avanya on 42nd St.
Have you seen that movie? It's like Andre Gregory.
It's really cool, but that's howthey do that play.
Like it looks like all the audiences are just talking to
each other and they're one of them.
Waggy is that. It's so cool.
It's just mind blowing when you're in the audience and
you're like, the play has begun.The.
(00:42):
Play has begun, just like this podcast.
The Play the podcast. Has it's begun?
Yeah, Oh my God, how are you feeling?
How are you? How's.
Premiere. I definitely had a martini
that's great, which for me was like New York martini
celebration grown up. I mean, I can't drink at those
things. Yeah, you know, because you're
just like protecting yourself. No, not really even I feel like
(01:03):
I just forget to. I know well.
There's no time. There's no time.
And then whenever I'm thinking I'm like, I should drink
something, it's usually like water, Water that because I'm
like so thirsty. I know, I know.
But you know, I am doing this like punishing thing where I'm
not drinking water to see like what my body can take.
OK, You can't do that. I know, I know.
And you have to what I drink. I try to as much as I can.
Are you for real? You drink water all the time.
(01:24):
You. Have to like also.
I mean, I'm still don't drink enough.
Yeah, but I am. Told to.
By who? Mainly my husband.
Yeah, well, good for him. He's.
Always like love. He's always like, you just need
to hydrate. But don't guy, I thought guys
are like obsessed with like having like people drink water.
Yeah. What is that?
It's like love and also psychoticness and dad shit or.
(01:45):
Something, maybe it's something like that, but maybe it's like
the one thing maybe they figuredout is that.
Makes me feel good. Water is good.
That's the one thing in this world that's like, constantly.
Yeah. And it's like and you can get it
and it's basically. Free.
In New York, anyway. You know what I don't like is
watching anyone, but particularly men, chug water for
a while and watching it go down their throat like.
(02:08):
I think I like men a lot. You love men.
I think I do. Because tell me everything that
and then I am like. You're like, that's hot.
Kind of, but you. Tell me what?
Why? Because it's like they're
fulfilling an essential need. No, I don't know.
I think that I don't know. I find them so charming.
You find men charming, Yeah. I do.
(02:29):
I find someone very charming. Yeah, I think some men are
terming, but I feel like part oflike part of that is like you
just kind of go like, OK, it's part of I think knowing them
too, getting to know them. But if you.
Know and love chug water that could be very beautiful for you
it. Could be very beautiful, but
also like, I think that it's because like I just find them to
be. I mean, I guess charming is the
(02:49):
best word. For it, well, they're so
different. They are so different.
They do the weirdest stuff. Yeah, yeah.
Well, it's like they were born into a different world in a way,
completely like a world that wasbuilt for them.
It's so awesome. It is kind of.
I admire that. I mean, I don't admire that, but
I do think that is very, it brings a different perspective.
Yeah, I know it's. Huge to write, to walk into a
(03:11):
world and then be like, oh this is built for me and this is for
me. Right.
And they're like, have some water, have some world.
Yeah. Wait.
Oh, wait. OK.
So how are you feeling? I feel.
Good. Yes.
Yeah. I mean, my movie's out in the
world. You're going to come out so
soon? And and, you know, I've never
felt more clear on what the wordrelease means.
(03:31):
Yeah, I didn't understand. Oh yeah, you're having a whole
thing. And I feel like I was doing this
in 2023. I feel like you and I are having
a. It's a vibe.
Similar time, aren't we? How does you're feeling right
now compared to your feeling then?
Oh, I feel like you must know exactly how I was feeling at
(03:52):
that time in 2023, like back when Past Lives was coming out,
where you were being introduced to the world in a really
beautiful way with you in your film, and you just come to
Sundance. It was so wonderful.
And then shout out to you and shout out to you.
And then, you know, so I feel like you get to come out of
Sundance and you have all this like, amazing.
(04:14):
You're like meeting your audience.
Right. It's very so magical.
Weird. It's very, very magical and
weird. It is pretty weird.
I mean, cause something that I think about a lot is that you're
visible but not seen sometimes, you know, because you're very,
very visible, but it's only a handful of people who really see
you. And even when I talk to, when I
(04:34):
do interviews and stuff like that, I think about that a lot.
I'm always like, oh, this journalist, this writer really
sees me. Or sometimes you're like, oh,
this, I'm just visible to this person.
Oh, that's such an important distinction.
And when you feel seen, that's such a euphoric feeling.
Oh. Yeah, well, and that's why you.
That's what you're looking for. That's why we're making a movie.
Yes. Right.
And also, of course, you're so seen in your film, you know?
(04:56):
Right. Yeah.
As is everyone. I agree.
I mean, I think that you can seeme really well in my movie, you
know what I mean? Yeah.
I feel like I'm like, really we just cause part of it is like we
are especially being like havingas much authority on it as we
can. I'm sure it's like, if you don't
have as much authority on it, then maybe like, you know,
(05:17):
somebody else is in it. But for our movies, we just get
to how lucky are we? I I mean, that's the thing that
I feel allows me to sleep at night is like I feel that it is
the film I wanted to make and that I am in it in the way I
wanted to be in it. Like heart wise.
Yeah, yeah. Totally.
Well, I think it's like you got to be in it and then now it's
(05:39):
being, it is of course very visible and you want to be as
visible as possible so that as many people who see it anyway,
you can feel seen in it. Yeah, it's like giving yourself
as much opportunity to find people who can see it.
Exactly like weird too because visibility isn't emotional.
No. There's nothing to hold on to,
(06:01):
no. But it looks, it looks shiny and
great, you know? Yeah.
So it's. Yes, yeah.
But then I feel like once in a while, like I'll talk to
somebody or something and I'll be like, oh wow, you're really.
So you actually you actually sawme in the movie?
Yes. That's so magical.
That, yeah, it's like a drop of water and you're so thirsty and,
(06:21):
like, feeling that. And when someone sees how you
are in it, that is the thing that, like, allows you to
believe that it made sense that you did it and that you do it.
And because it's such a hard job.
Oh yeah, yeah. You mean like being visible?
Well, just making a movie. Sure.
You're like, it's easy to me. No, it's not easy to me, but I
think part of it is that I don'tknow.
(06:43):
Everyday I feel like I was on set for my second movie because
I feel like part of making the first movie though is that I
don't think that I knew how to appreciate it because it was
coming at me so fast. Like I was just kind of like,
oh, OK, Day 2. What's happening now?
Yeah, and then day three. Oh my God, right.
And OK, so be wrapped. What happens now?
(07:04):
So so much of it is like. Not knowing.
Not knowing and figuring out on the way, but in the second movie
I feel like. Yeah, tell me, tell me like how
did it feel like prepping that? And like, yeah, tell me like
your how your mind was. Because you're going to do it
soon. Someday I need to sleep for a
second. Yeah, of course, after you
sleep. No, but like I'm really curious
(07:24):
about that, obviously. Yeah.
Well, I think that what's amazing is that you just kind
of, I felt really lucky doing it.
Like every day I feel like I gotunsaid and I'll find my first AD
and I'll just be like, and he'lltell me like everything that
isn't going according to plan, things that are going to
according to plan, all the difficult news from the morning.
(07:45):
And then I'll just listen to everything.
I'll be like, OK, we're going tofigure all those things out.
But how lucky that we get to make a movie today, right?
It sounds like we can still go today.
So I think that that part of it is so special.
And also, I mean, I got to make the movie that I wanted to
afford those movies, you know? Yes, how did it because there's
(08:06):
there's a real gift in the privacy of making a first movie
and not having the visibility because it's just you and your
people and and no eyes that are watching for weird reasons.
And how did you navigate like walking into with so much
visibility? Like you seriously are like so
known and I feel like the percentage of like, I mean, I
(08:32):
don't know how it felt inside ofit, but like how many people I
think saw you not just, you know, saw the film, but like saw
you inside it. Like it was a remarkable moment.
And it's a, it's such a lasting film.
And like, how did it feel walking into with that
visibility? Like did it like 'cause you were
saying like you felt pretty grateful.
(08:52):
Like that's an amazing way to toprocess that the like potential
pressure of visibility and to being like, I'm grateful to be
here. Well, is that most of it?
Well. I feel like some of it is like,
first of all, I'm not that known, but I feel like in New
York, of course, maybe more. Yeah.
Because it's, you know, past lives.
Such a New York movie. Yeah, I made it here already.
(09:12):
Own place. Yeah.
And then also, like, your footprint is so huge, and then
you know, you're taking over a whole block, right?
A movie, right? Right.
And it disrupts it. Disrupts, of course, and
everybody's like, what? What are you shooting here, you
know? And is it worth blocking my
truck? Yeah.
Exactly. So but I think it's like some of
it is about, well, you can take that as that attention or that
(09:33):
all the visibility as a thing that is like really in the way
and it's very annoying, yes. Or you can really think of it as
like, well, how amazing that everybody wants to know what my
next movie is going to be, right, right.
Because that what that means is that they're interested and
that. If they're around, they're
there. They're waiting.
And the dream is that if the dream is that you're somebody
who makes culture, if you're somebody who gets to have an
(09:55):
audience that you hope to grow and expand and find new corners
in, then you there's a part of it.
You just have to be like, so cool that everybody cares, you
know? Why is this therapy?
Yeah. I mean, I feel like it's always
good, you know, it's called any conversation I think has a
therapeutic element if you get deep enough.
You know, they keep us apart. They have a director, own
(10:16):
movies. We don't get to talk as much.
We just don't but but I think that that's why I kind of really
like this. Yeah, it's nice.
Yeah. I feel like it meant a lot
because I did the one that I didbefore with Sofia Coppola, and
that I feel like that was one ofthose most moments where you
just get to sit and you just talk about like what this all
actually feels. Like, right, I know because it's
(10:37):
such a such a weird and you catch each other at really weird
times. Like, Oh yeah, every week is
different. Oh yeah.
And then my other thing I wantedto say about what you said
before, like I feel like I'm understanding now how little
time it is that you're you get to be on set in the scheme of
making a film. Like I don't think I understood
(10:57):
that when I was walking into it.I thought on set was like the
big and it is like so big, but time wise, it's like this blip
in the making of a film. And like, the further I get from
it, like I understand why that time is so precious, like as
artists, because it's where you really get to work.
Yeah, well, that's why you're all, that's what you're all
(11:18):
doing together, right? Right.
And it's also where the team is the.
Biggest Yes, it's true, but I do.
Think that being a filmmaker, being the director, it's like
you get to know every single person who works on the movie in
a way that no one else does. Yes.
And you're you have A and it feels like people come in as
like it's like a quest and like,I mean, it's like the really
(11:40):
important part of the piece, like, and you meet sort of like
after after production, which isso hectic and like adrenaline
fueled. You get to go do the edit, which
is like kind of the balm to production, which is time, but
also it's like a nightmare. But it's also intimate in this
way that's new. Like it's a very cool job.
Well, it's like everybody is like showing up for the great
affair. Right.
(12:01):
Like, it's if you're kind of like having this amazing,
beautiful creative affair for different phases of your making
a movie. Yeah.
But then at the end of the day, the whole thing is you're the
only one who has the whole picture, right?
And you're the only one who knows the studio head and who's,
you know, signing the checks andalso the guy who's carrying the
boom mic, Yes. But you're the one who knows all
(12:23):
of them, yes. So in a way, it's like this
amazing thing where you just getto see the picture of like every
single person who touches this movie, yes.
It's big and it's and it becomesand you give the movie away over
and over and that and that is nice.
Oh yeah, I mean like when the tothe collaborators.
Yes. Or like it just it's like so
(12:43):
much. It becomes everyone's film in a
way that's like, really that. That part I find to be very
special. Well, I feel like the moment
where the department heads and then everybody truly, I mean
down to the as when they start to know what movie we're all
making. And then my favorite thing is
whenever my department heads just know the answers to the
(13:05):
questions, there's a moment in prep where it's because it used
to be that I'm the only person who could have answers.
And eventually I'll like my DP will know the right answer and
then he will actually know it before me faster, better, right?
And that's really magical. And of course, it happens with
cast too. I mean, in your case, you're in
your film. No, but I mean the cast like
saves my life. Of course, because I mean they
(13:27):
are thinking about what they have to do.
Well, that is, you know that that I love that like someone
becomes the the like advocate for their thing and then they
become the expert. So and, and that to me with the
casting process, like the joy ofgiving words to someone and then
trusting that they understand that person more than like the
(13:50):
giving away, especially to actors, obviously to other like
to designers who and everyone. But but there was something
really special about being able to give away these slices of of
these people and and then they become whole people in front of
your eyes. Like, and you don't totally
understand how it got there, butit's.
But it's just now it's a whole person because it's, yeah.
(14:11):
It's always better. I always think about this.
Right? Yeah.
Because like the person's bringing their whole humanity to
the words on the page, which is like the words on a page is just
a suggestion of a person. Yes.
Right. It's like walk down this road if
you're interested, and then continue the road yourself
because you're the only one thatknows how to do it.
It's such a beautiful, it's sucha beautiful collaboration.
(14:33):
I know I love it. Well, I feel like when it comes
to the way that the like actors show up for it, it's like I feel
like if you give them room, but the room has to be something
that is within the bounds of what you know about the
character. But as long as the walls of that
room is clear, the actor can fill it with their.
Soul. Yeah, it's so.
Magical, you know. But that with materialists.
(14:56):
Watch that's. Really.
That's what it was, Yeah. Yeah.
You kind of like, it's like a bit of like there is a bit of a
target like that we all talk about as a target we're trying
to hit. How do you talk about that?
We talk. About like what I know about the
character. You have to communicate
everything I know about the character.
Yes. And then of course there is a
always going to be a conversation.
(15:17):
And my rehearsals are more like table work.
It's not really. We don't really beat the lines,
yeah. We just kind of go through every
line and we talk about if anybody has questions, what I
know about that line or what themeaning of that line, what's
going on and then. Do you do you do rehearsals
before? Like what is your rehearsal
process? Like I do it during prep and
(15:39):
then of course when we hit the set, the day begins with
rehearsal. For the whole day or just for
the the scene you're doing? So the scene I'm doing.
OK, just checking. Yeah, yeah, scene you're doing
and like when everybody's there and then we all like, but a part
of the rehearsal is actually just more like blocking.
I agree, yeah. What about you?
I mean also, how do you do, I need to ask, how do you do it
(16:01):
while you're in the scene as a main character?
Too, Yeah. I mean, honestly, I prepared
everything to the point of insanity because I have a ton of
anxiety and my way through the, the like year before I shot the
film was preparing the directing.
Like I mean, as best as you can before prep, just like thinking
(16:22):
through everything and, and, andstoryboarding so that I could
kind of because I never made anything.
So I was like, I need to create visuals to understand if I like
them. Like I had to sort of draw.
And then my acting prep was a lot.
It was just, it was kind of liketable work stuff too, where I
just sat with my acting coach and we talked about sort of this
person's transformation and how much we needed to convey in the
(16:46):
few scenes we have before my character goes through something
really intense. And then sort of this journey
and how to just kind of stay honest with every moment.
And, and it was, I mean, I, I did have an acting coach who we
just being able to talk out loud.
It's like sort of the director and the actor get to do together
often and and it was important that I had someone to work with
(17:10):
in that way. And then like, honestly, with
Naomi, she's just so good. So it's like, yeah, she's she's
amazing. She can do anything.
And like when we met, there was just like chemistry.
And it was much more for me in that relationship in the film
about capturing the ease of thatthen then any sort of like thing
(17:33):
we had to hit because like the beginning of the film was simply
trying to create an atmosphere of joy and like welcoming for my
audience so that we feel held during like the harder parts.
But but but yeah, I I something I miss about like having gone to
acting school and doing plays isthe lengthy rehearsal process.
(17:54):
Like that is act like that is the acting dream is to get time
and time and time to just talk through everything and and and
to get to do the play in one go.You know, like that it so so how
does it how how is it making film like do you like it?
I mean, I love it. Yeah.
Well, I think what you're talking about, that's something
(18:15):
that I feel like is a new way ofthinking about it because you're
right. A play lives in is born, and it
dies in one night, in one performance.
And it was, again and again. But you do it every and over
again. Exactly.
And every night it's like it lives a little differently
because of the audience is different, the actor's mood is
different. But the thing about film like
this is kind of the way that I think about it, which is that
(18:37):
every day when you're doing a scene, part of it is that you're
trying to part of putting it in the can and finishing that scene
is to kill it, right? So as you're kind of like
carrying out like because we also shot on film.
So part of it is like we're literally carrying out cans of
film. And I would always say, well,
those are just little body partsof this movie, right?
And some right. And some days you're making
(18:59):
little, you know, like little fingers.
Sometimes you're making a whole face, right?
And you're just, and you know, you're and I get eyes later,
right? Or sometimes you're being like,
we need a whole today's a day. We shoot the whole torso.
Yes, like this is a big torso day.
Exactly. And then you get all these
different party parts and it always, I would always laugh
because I would watch the cans of film that we shot carried out
(19:19):
and I was like, well, there is alittle body part that we shot
today, right? And preserve.
That. Exactly.
And then in in post production, you basically get to bring all
the body parts in you source through it.
And then and then you start to sew it like it's kind of like
you're you're Frankenstein, Dr. Frankenstein and you're kind of
sewing together different party parts.
(19:41):
And the goal, at least for me, is to sew it so intricately and
so seamlessly that the audience thinks that the end product is,
which is something that we put together, sound, picture,
everything. This thing that so many, like
hundreds of people worked on to create perfect body parts and
(20:02):
then just sew it on the right way the whole time is scripted.
You're dreaming that this Frankenstein's monster is the
audience thinks that it has a mother.
Right, isn't like that. It was just born that way and
then no one made. It there's like effortlessness.
Effortless, so much so that you want the audience to fall in
(20:23):
love. It's just the beauty of this
human being. To not see the stitches to.
Not see the stitches. That's so.
Beautiful. And you know what's interesting
about that is like something that is crazy about the edit is
discovering like, OK, so this foot can be the most beautiful
foot you've ever seen it on its own.
Then the second it goes on the body, it's like the body's
rejecting the foot. Oh yeah.
Or like it's choosing ugly foot.Yeah.
So the foot has been longer and weirder shaped, but only because
(20:46):
this body requires that. Like that part is the fun crazy.
And it's so crazy that you're trying to build the best body
part possible to withstand the future.
But like you're also kind of like, I don't know what's like,
I, I, I'm making really thoughtful guesses about what's
going to fit together. But like man, that body on the
(21:07):
other side takes a second. Well, but my thing is like, I
think on your second movie, and this is my experience that you
kind of get to realize that you're like, well, I just know
that I need to get these few different sizes for the body
parts because just in case like I'm like, Oh, it's so it's
because of course, when you're trying to especially when like
(21:28):
the set piece is beautiful and everything, you're looking for
the biggest, most spectacular body part and trying to get
that. But then you have to sort of
there's you kind of, I feel likeI feel you're already going to
know. They have the instinct being
like. Well in the edit.
I know that I might need a smaller version of.
That body part? Tiny finger.
Or I might be like, oh, to withstand that body part, I need
(21:50):
bigger feet. So when we get to the feet part,
then we'll be like, right, Like it's.
Kind of love this. Right.
I think it's a. It's a.
Beautiful image because it's true and I think it works in
like 100 ways. Yeah.
And, and The thing is like when you're shaving like because I
shave like whatever, 2 frames sometimes and you're like, well,
you're doing that. So that like that little stitch
that's sticking out, you can't see.
(22:12):
Right, yes. I mean, that work is so
euphoric, a little stitch work because that's after you.
That is something that you it's like a reward.
And in writing too, like I feel like that's what I'm always
hoping for is that I get to the place with a project where I'm
like, I'm reading, I'm reading, I'm reading.
There's a stitch out of place and, and fixing the stitch like,
(22:33):
but you only get there after, but you only get there after.
Oh my God, it's so long. But you don't also don't know
when it's going to happen, right?
Because sometimes it's happeningin the writing, sometimes it
happens in production. So you think sometimes.
So yeah. So tell me about how you write.
Like because do you ever go intolike how many stitches should
(22:57):
show? Like because I feel like in my
head, the idea is like in the writing, like the idea that you
try to make the body in the writing as seamless as possible
so that when you get to the nextthing and you chop up the body
again, you can put it back together and you don't see the
first it, you know, like but do you haven't like, is that how
you think about it? Or are you like I this is how
(23:17):
much I need to know to go into shooting this like for your
writing? Well, I feel like if you can cut
something from your script before you go into production,
what I learned is that you should, right?
It's never going to show up and be necessary.
Because if you feel like you don't need it, the chances that
(23:39):
you don't, Right. But I think that that instinct,
it's sometimes I found it reallyhard to navigate when I was
making my when I was making pastlives, the first movie, because
I would be like, I have an instinct.
Yeah. Like my instinct is that I don't
need it. But then you're scared because
you don't know. Yeah.
So you're like, OK, well, we'll shoot it and then we put all
these resources into it and thenit ends up in the hitting room
(24:01):
floor. Right, Right.
And even in. But I feel like also, it also
has to do with how you want to do it.
Like my editor's experience for 10 years has been with Terrence
Malick, right? Terrence I mean, so I know that
he works in a way where he's notworried about how many extra
(24:22):
body parts he ends up with, right?
Right. So he so I think it depends on
the filmmaker. Like I feel like different film
makers probably do it differently.
Totally. Like but for materialists, I
feel like almost everything we shoot is in the movie.
Because you already edited like through and maybe you're someone
who is like, I don't want extra body partners, I want more time
to make the body parts. Or something that to me, because
(24:43):
it was like that way you can putthe resources into the
individual body part because you're kind of like, well, if it
means that I can have, right? Like always a compromise.
It's like if I have to go quick on this, I want this.
Yeah, yeah. Well, what was the process for
you in writing? Sorry baby.
You know, I had it was I was making the things that he would
have told me I cut from the filmlater.
(25:04):
You would have had to like actually like chain me up to get
me to cut those. Those are the reasons I made
that. Like, there were scenes that
were the reasons I felt like thefilm got made.
Yeah. Just these like, little, there
were little like interludes throughout the film that I felt
were so, like, important for forrelief.
And then something really clear happened in the edit where those
(25:28):
scenes felt like just tension isjust diffused and like, it was
so slow. But like, and then the film just
felt like they were like it was rejecting the scenes that I feel
like the idea of them I loved, but and then the things that I
ended up keeping that felt so essential.
There were a couple moments on set where I was like, I don't,
this doesn't feel so right that like once they were in, I was
(25:51):
very like moved by how little I knew and how much guessing was
involved in in how the edit would happen.
And I am so curious like about Idon't, I don't feel like I'll
know exactly what I learned fromthat until I try again because.
That's true. I don't know if I would.
(26:12):
I don't know if I have learned to actually cut that thing or if
make shooting that is actually important for another reason I
don't understand. But you know what's crazy is
that like I'm like something crazy is that like every movie
is a new universe. So like sure, you can make a
film, but like I've never directed a film not in it.
(26:33):
So I only know about that flow and like, I've yes, I've
directed this film, but I've never directed one that looks
like this with this kind of world, you know, and and that
part's obviously the reason why it's amazing to get to make more
than one movie and why we want to do that.
But also it's continually like terrifying because it's like
(26:54):
you're building, it's like building another body that is a
it's like an animal you've neverseen or something.
It's like but you don't know what it's supposed to look like
till it's. Well, the problem is that it's a
process like life, right? As in, like, how amazing that
you're gonna get to do another one.
Plus a part of that is that you're also risking a lot,
right? But just like life, right?
(27:16):
So I do think that you're talking about like, yeah, I wish
that we get to make our movies. It's out.
It's going great. Your film's going so great.
And then you wish that, you know, like, OK, well, that's it.
That's the end of my life. Right, right.
Like this would be a great time to end.
Yeah, but The thing is like, themovies are over.
A movie is out into the world. And in a way it's like, you're
right. It's not yours because you can't
(27:37):
now. You can't go to the movie
theaters and like try to like fix it and do more time and
sound or something. You have to let it be right.
And it's like, so in a way, creatively, it's no longer a lie
for you because you can't do anything.
For it huge grief, but. Something that I know really
alleviates that grief for me is to think about the next thing
(27:57):
right And then. The only.
Way. It's the only way I mean.
It's the only thing that you have, yeah.
Everything else is put on you like.
Everything else, everything you're doing so that you can
support the child you made that is now walking and living, and
it's going to meet their people on their own.
And you have to be there to support this kid, right?
Sent to college. And you know, bye like but like
(28:18):
miss you and I hope you, I hope you're.
OK, Yeah, I hope I like gave youeverything you needed, you know,
but then you just have to let that kind of be.
And then what's what's amazing is that we just can continue
thinking about the next thing. So that's that's the only
relief. Oh, yeah.
Well, I, I what I was saying, what I was thinking was that you
(28:39):
know how you were saying that you want to sleep first before
you're. I don't though.
I know I said that, but I kind of made that up.
Yeah, but I want to sleep up foran hour and then make.
Yes, like about a couple of hours, you know, just feel like
2 hours that's enough. But, but for me, it's like,
well, I, I was so lucky to support my movie through all the
award stuff. So what happened was that after
(29:00):
the So I went to the Oscars, which was so cool.
Damn it. Was it was real damn.
Like it was really cool. It was so.
And then after I went to that, the next day I flew back to New
York. The day after that I was on a
scout van to make materials. No, you weren't.
Yes, I was. And so you knew that whole time
you were going to that scout van.
Whole I was, I knew it. Must have been so good for your
(29:21):
like it was. So fun, like I feel like because
of course, you know, like past lives, it's kind of a long
grieving process of like, well, that movie is what it is.
And then. But of course that's something
to remember for us, I think in general is that yeah, so it
might be over for us when it comes to that particular movie.
Maybe it's dead to us, but it's alive in the audience, right,
(29:42):
right. The offer audience, every
audience, new member, every new member of the audience who sees
the movie, it's it's comes back to life.
Right, it's a baby again for. Yeah, and then for and then I
think it's amazing because then we get to live vicariously
through the way that the audience sees it.
So if they're like, oh, I reallyit meant something to me, then I
feel I always feel like I'm alive again in it, right.
(30:05):
So that I really love. But but then you know what I
what I think the favorite, the best part is like, yeah, you're
right. Those, you know, 12 hours, 1214
hours every day, we're like, they're like 600 people who's
working on the movie, right? We're like in the office on set.
And then we're all just like, hustling together.
Yeah. And it's like, you can't, you
(30:25):
can't. You have.
It just requires presents. Yeah.
And so you and I think so much of this part of like putting out
the film is so about like, like you like me or whatever.
And actually the thing I remember feeling relieved by was
(30:46):
people feeling connected to the script and the film we were
making. Because it really does making
the film actually does take the attention off of like how you
are and puts it on clarity of the story you're trying to tell.
And that shift of like, it's notabout me.
It's about this thing. And it stands over here and
we're all looking at that, that I find to be really helpful.
(31:07):
And the thing I'm also missing is like, we're all looking at
the thing, not at me, you know, like that.
And, and that is helpful. And there's work like you just
have to, and there's stuff to dowhen you're making a movie that
is, it's good to stay busy with the stuff you're doing because
it keeps you on track with what your, your point, the point of
(31:27):
your life is, you know? Well, you don't think that
they're all looking at you because I feel like I mean for
me, I feel like being a directoralways is that you are the my
joke is that I'm the mother, sister, daughter, right to every
single person who's working on the movie right, Like I'm I'm
(31:48):
like in charge and taking care of you as like in the mother
way. Yes, I'm also your sister and
that I'm your equal and you weregonna talk it out.
We're going to Yeah, and we're going to be confidant.
So we're going to figure that out.
And then I'm also someone to be protected for my vision
everything like a daughter and then like and also what I want,
if I trust to get me right get to happen.
(32:09):
So I feel like it's this kind oflike you kind of get to be all
you are the center of the, the what is it the kind of like
this, this thing that is being that we're all doing together,
right? So everybody's looking at you
because I feel like I answer 1000 questions a day.
(32:29):
Right, but they're looking at you in relationship to the piece
yes, of course not like just youfor the sake of you.
No, you know, like there is something different about
there's like a purpose to you'relike the mother of the of the
thing of people. No.
But, but I think that's true. But I feel like how you are as a
person will define how we're making the movie.
(32:50):
Oh well, that's totally. True.
That's true. So in that way, it's like, well,
I think about that so much. I feel like how I respond or how
I behave, it's going to reverberate throughout the whole
set. Right.
There's like cells in it and thecells are in the film.
Like it's totally intense. It is intense.
So in that way, I feel like you're right, my goal, right, my
(33:11):
goal is for it to be all about the movie.
But as the person who is holdingthe movie in my mind and who
does know everybody from, you know, the highest, highest paid
person on set to the lowest person on set, I know everybody,
right? In that way, I just feel like
I'm responsible for everyone's like everyone's work, like I'm
(33:37):
responsible for everyone's. I couldn't say.
And I'm also like, we could think about this, which is that
for like 12 to 14 hours a day, these grown adults, these grown
union like adults are giving, like giving their life for
giving their lives for 12 to 14 hours in pursuit of this thing
(34:01):
that isn't me yet. And is I really have a genuine
question about how tangible it is.
Yeah, I think about because of course in the it's in the hard
drive or it's in a, you know, can like their tangibility to
the movie. But it's also in the air like.
Yeah, it's about the living through it, like the audience is
experiencing it and that's the only, that's the final product.
(34:23):
Yes, it's the experience of it. No, you're experience.
It's like it's not the DVD, it'sthe time you spend watching the
film. And that either that either
like, yeah, it lodges itself into someone or it moves through
them, but either way, it's aboutthat person's relationship to
what they're experiencing. And that is that you cannot
hold. No, I mean, you're asking also
the audience to give two hours of their lives.
(34:46):
I mean, that to me is the thing that is the thing of like the
the honor. Yeah, I feel, yes, honor that
someone spent two hours of theirlives.
Yeah. And also they got there and they
they're leaving. They're going back like that.
Sometimes they get babysitters. And I'm like, no, you got a
babysitter and they buy candy and it's like because they want
(35:07):
to eat candy while watching the movie, because they want to
escape and they want to feel like it's sensory and they want
to like, no. And that's what we do.
Like that's why I feel like that's why movies took my heart
is because it's like I got to give two hours and get a life
back too in a way. Like there's but it's also a
risk because it's like you spendsometimes you spend 2 hours and
(35:31):
it it wasn't it. Was a waste of your.
Time yeah, but it's also like, but there's also something about
like I tried like I, I was interested in engaging with that
and for some reason it didn't move me the way I wanted it to
but like I'm gonna go back like people go back because they're
like I'm gonna and that's why there's so many movies yeah,
it's because like. And that's the that's the
(35:52):
coolest is that there's not one movie.
It's like you find what moves you.
Oh, yeah. But you have to give it enough
time to like, find what moves you.
Oh. Yeah.
And also like, yeah, it's a it'sa question when you walk into a
thing. And I feel like in a world where
where everybody's trying to be risk averse, it is really hard
to be like, hey, take a risk on this thing, right.
(36:13):
It's original story, right? Yeah.
It's from this person that you may have heard of, Maybe you
haven't. Yeah.
And I think you'll be great. It could be right, Right.
So it's such a wild thing to promise.
And then of course, as everybodybecoming like, well, my time is
worth this. And there's a lot of risk averse
(36:34):
culture. Yeah, right.
It's kind of hard to be increasingly or it's always hard
to be like, hey, like take a risk on, you know, giving us
like 2 hours of your life. Right.
It's a huge ask. It's a big ask.
But my thing is like, if you were able to think about their
responsibility, and I mean, use the word honor, right?
It's like some of it is about like really seeing it as like,
(36:56):
well, it is an honor to have it,so I'm not going to disrespect
it. Yeah.
Right. And then, and it may be that
like I know that at the end of the day, all I'm doing is that
I'm risking as much as you. Yeah, right.
I mean, yes. And I'm giving you everything I
have. And that's doing the stitches,
Yes. And making the stitches.
(37:17):
It's like I'm giving you every, every.
I'm caring. I care so much.
Well, I'm giving you, I'm givingyou, you know, like what a final
mixes are 12 hours days and I'm there the whole time.
And then of course my sound designers are there 12 to 14
hours a day. And my thing is like, well,
these are people who have devoted their lives to sound
(37:38):
design, for example, right? Well, like my DP is somebody who
devoted his life to image making.
You're going to see these incredible grown up
professionals give everything they know, giving all of
themselves to the art of this thing.
And my thing is like, well, that's the, that's what we're
(37:59):
actually able to offer. Because if you show up for two
hours, you get to see. All of.
Us do our yeah. Craftsmanship.
I've been a writer for like 20 years, you know, like we're all
showing up basically being like doing, giving you like, not just
like little bit of image, littlebit of sound, little bit of
writing. We're showing up to give you our
(38:21):
whole life, right? Yeah.
Because my my script or my DPS images, it's not coming from
like ether you didn't just like plug it into you plug into AI
and then, you know, pop it out. What happened?
Was that you? You build it from the ground
like. We worked, we failed, we worked
(38:41):
again and then right I. Missed that part.
No, it is really good. You're going to get there.
You're going to do it soon, you know.
What I mean, you're going to be.On set like 2 seconds.
You know, it's just, it's I totally, it's like I actually
can't believe it's real. What just being able to do this.
I know it's crazy. It's.
Really cool. It's really cool.
(39:03):
And there's so many parts of it.And every time you do a new
part, you're like, what are you talking about?
That's part of this job. Like it's such a special job.
Oh yeah, it's such and it's true.
Like. Really lucky, yeah.
It's a really crazy thing to have people what you're saying
about like they're giving their days of their lives to create
this with you and, and it's supreme focus and it's everyone
(39:27):
doing the best that they can. And that is, it is like so life
affirming to be in a space whereeveryone's doing that.
Yeah, it's very rare, of course.And everyone who's there
understands why you're there. So there's no explaining like
what we're doing. I mean, talk about being seen.
Yes. Yes, I feel the most seen when
(39:48):
I'm on my set. That's where I feel the most
seen outside of like my home. Yes.
You know, I feel like that's theplace where I feel like, oh, I
know everybody sees me because Ifeel like it's also where I feel
like very, very, very human. Yeah.
You know, because like, I don't know if some of it is about
like, it's just the energy of itor it's just the passion of it
(40:11):
that we're all like, yeah, we'renot showing up to.
We're not here to fuck around. No, we're doing this.
Yeah, you know, and. Once you're in, you're like once
the timeline starts, yeah, that should just fucking go I.
Know and it's so cool and I think it's like and also you get
exactly how much you care out ofit right I think about that in
terms of like how much like careis involved and I'm always like
(40:31):
well if you don't care then you'll get less out of it yeah
and then if you care a lot you don't get a lot out of it yes
right this is a person. Yes.
No, no, totally. Yeah.
This is so nice talking to you. It's so nice talking to you.
Seriously. Seriously.
Can't believe it? So I feel like something I
(40:52):
genuinely, I'm like, well, were you able to direct yourself in
your like or did you kind of like go in like how many ticks
would you do? Yeah, it would be like, it would
be like, well, the first few days we scheduled lighter
because I we had to figure out the flow.
I'd never done it and I think weusually the flow would be I had
to stand in, which is so helpful.
(41:13):
So I'd set up the shot with the stand in and then I would do it
and then watch that. And I would only really watch
that for shape, like is this howthe shots meant to move?
Is is there anything in this that doesn't feel like what I'm
what I want? Then once I we felt what the
shot was figured out and, and any adjustments have been made,
I would do a probably a run of it until I felt like it was what
(41:36):
I wanted. And, and, and then I would
usually watch what I liked but without sound.
And it was mostly just like is the vibe of is it there?
And because I feel like I knew what happened emotionally or I
knew what I just knew what happened, but I just wanted to
make sure I saw it through. But I just, I didn't usually
watch the sound because I was like, and sometimes stuff was
(41:58):
heavy and I was like, it's easier for me as a director to
just see shape and then I would,I would know pretty soon I
would. The thing that was efficient was
I noted myself. So there was no sort of like
having to figure out our flow like it was.
I knew the adjustments I wanted to make performance wise pretty
quickly. And it was, you know, really
(42:20):
nice to be sort of working with actors from an act in scenes as
a director, because there's sortof this like inherent trust
because like I'm in the trenchestoo.
Like we're both being really vulnerable.
And there were a couple scenes in the film where I directed to
people who and I wasn't in the scene and I was, it was like a
totally different experience of like, I want you to know I I'm
(42:44):
with you. Like it's like, but you're
vulnerable. You're the ones in front of the
camera and like, I want you to trust that.
I see that. That's insane.
And like, and sometimes I would be like, oh, I like I've it
would be like a learning curve of trying to figure out how to
get in there and how to have find language for those people.
(43:06):
But. Yes, I feel like the reason why
I was asking is because I feel like such a big part of my
relationship to my actors is my objectivity, right?
Because they have to so fully embody the subjectivity of the
characters that they're not. I don't, I never want to ask my
actors to also be in charge of the objectivity.
(43:26):
Yes. And of course, like I am working
with like 3, like just insanely professional, like excellent,
like lifelong actors because like all three of them, like
Dakota, Chris and Pedro, like all of them just have such
experience like, like just working, right?
So the part of the thing that I really found is that like, and I
think this is something that I found in any actor who has
(43:48):
really long experience working is that they have a way to see
their performance a little bit objectively because part is
protectiveness, right? And then of course, after you
build a certain amount of trust and they're they never able to.
Release that and let. Go and then just let it be a
subjective work. And I think that to me, getting
(44:10):
to that place is something that I'm working on and usually the
first week. Right, Yes.
And is it with each person a different way to both?
Of course, Yes, yes, of. Course, because if it was a
different person, so you have a different relationship with each
person. Yes.
And I think that it's like and Ithink.
Mother, sister, daughter. Mother, sister, daughter, right.
It's like you kind of have to approach the every relationship
(44:31):
and also every scene differentlybecause it's also like some
scenes are bigger scenes for onecharacter, yes.
Or even like within the scene, the whole I'm like, well, first
part of the scene is all about Dakota's character Lucy, you
know, Second part of the scene is all about Pedro's character,
Harry. So we're kind of always dealing
with like, you know, it's a bit of a sparring of like it's a
(44:55):
movie where it's a sparring of ideas.
So, so much of it has to do withlike each person really
committing to the subjectivity. So I have to then be able to
tell them that I'm in charge of the objective.
As in, like, I'm the person who tells them how it reads.
Yes, right. So it's like I can take that
burden off of you and tell you Ihave, I have.
I feel like that's always the offer.
(45:16):
And I think that usually the first week is an opportunity for
all of us to build that trust. Yeah, right.
So that we can all walk away from it feeling like it's really
awesome. And also, I mean, the way that
all three of them are like, likefor example, when I'm noting,
the reason why I was asking about noting is that it's like
(45:37):
the rhythm of noting is different for each actor.
So I was just thinking like how those one note oneself because
like, well, the problem with like, because I'm a very bad
actor. Are you I'm?
Really bad? Really.
When have you done it? I've not really done it.
I was in the. Short I'm I'm in general bad,
but I was in a play once and I did a short film once.
(46:01):
OK. And the problem with me in that
situation is that I will do a piece of performance and then in
the middle of a performance, I'll be noting it, right.
But then that is really connected to the way that I note
as a director, because I'm usually writing something down
about what I want to note. Look, while it's happening.
(46:24):
Like I'll hear something, I'm like, oh, I know.
And then it's also, so I mean, that part's so fun because I
also know why it's not, it's theright thing.
It's almost just. Is you're not as an.
It's like you answering the thing you had a question about.
Like, and I get to learn about myself and I get to learn about
them. So it's a, it's a very, I think
noting is romantic. Yeah, it's a romantic
(46:46):
relationship, right? Because, yeah, some of it is
about like you're kind of tryingto like offer something.
And of course, like different actors, like the rhythm of a
note is it's something that we're finding in the first.
Yes. It's also something that we're
finding in the first week. Yeah, the first week.
Like I feel like usually I'm like, like, because we're trying
(47:08):
things. Yeah, totally.
I mean, the thing about it beingromantic is so true because it's
like, I see something in you andI'm seeing something and I have
an idea of where this could go and like, but I don't know.
And we have to decide together. Like there's a real kind of leap
of faith of like to me and notice sort of like I have a
(47:32):
hypothesis about something that could be over an interesting
road to walk down, but I don't know what's going to happen at
the end of the road. Are you interested in walking
down the road with me and doing this this way to see what we
come up with together? It's like a very intimate.
Yeah. And that's.
Oh yeah, and also we get to learn what are how he grew up
(47:52):
too. Like, it's kind of like you get
to learn about the culture that we all grew up in.
Like the way communication lands.
Yeah, because I'm like, well, I'm like, I might have used a
certain word and that word is actually not translating because
it means something else to them.Like I feel like that was really
fun with for example, cause what's what's amazing about
(48:13):
working with Dakota is that likeShahur and I, I think because
like I have a banks. IVI both of you have banks both.
Have banks, but also, you know, we're both, I was maybe going to
be a psychologist, like a psychology major in college.
So I was doing that. And I think she's so savvy about
like psychological language in general.
(48:33):
So I feel like something about like our language was already
pretty immediate. And so that with her, the rhythm
would be very like she would just try.
The first take would be rolling and then the between the 1st and
2nd take, we would talk about itin a language that would be so
fast. And so we would talk about it as
almost telepathic, because we would barely have to be fully
(48:55):
articulate for us to know why that's cool, what we're missing
for the first one. You both agree, kind of.
We would. And then the second text you
will just know, wow, yeah, I know.
And then the third take will start to try new things. 4th
take. It was kind of like that.
When you were shooting that likedid, did you feel that on set
and then also in the edit that was the same?
(49:16):
Oh, yeah. Well, and then when it comes to
Chris, for example, you know, like he and I, I think the first
week we were trying to figure out different language because
of like, because he's like a, I don't know, like he's from a,
like a kind of like a different generation.
And also like he's a guy from Boston.
Yeah. He's a Boston guy.
Like he's a Boston guy, so therewas a part of where I'd be like,
(49:36):
I would use the word like humbleand he would understand it in in
a different way. So we'd be kind of like aligning
some of those languages, right. But the thing that I really love
about working with him is that he there are a couple of things
that like, you know, wouldn't just make me and Dakota like
laugh so much, which is that like when he hits the when he
attempt to roll and he comes andhits the mark, he goes, all
(49:58):
right, let's fucking act. He says it every time.
He says that like not every time, but sometimes when he's
like sucking himself and he shows he's like, all right,
let's fucking act. Oh my God, so sweet.
And then the other and then in between when I give him notes.
And with him it would be more like because I sometimes you're
trying to dole out a few notes at a time, but with him, I give
(50:18):
him all 10 he wants. To know.
He wants to know, he wants to hear everything.
And then in the next take, it's amazing.
He'll do all of it, right? And The thing is like, he's
really technical. When I give him a note for the
next take, he hears that we talkabout it, and he goes, all
right, got it, Watch this. That's so.
(50:38):
Sweet, honestly. Like the beauty of that is he is
creating new energy to lighten the moment so that the next
thing can be free. It's like, it's like almost like
returning everyone to childhood.Yeah, like we're playing.
Yes. It's like, let's fucking X like
that's that's like a way to takeany tension out of the room.
It's cool. That's amazing.
OK, How about Pedro do everyone?Well, I feel like Pedro.
(51:00):
I mean, with Pedro, I feel like so much of it is about like in
such like abstract language sometimes like we will kind of
get into it in a way where we'relike, again, I think it's
similar to the way it is with Dakota, where it's very
philosophical and psychological.And then it's usually before we
roll. That's when we talk a lot
before. Oh, interesting.
(51:20):
And then he goes and then we andthen we just keep going.
Second take. Third take.
In the. In the yeah, because in between
and then I feel like when it comes to notes, it's always
about like something that like Iwould usually just give him a
word or something that we already talked about in the
before we started rolling. Oh my God, how it is like
they're different. There's something very like
(51:43):
familial, something very like intimate and like, yes, deep
about like learning how someone needs to be communicated with.
It's very loving. I mean, to learn how someone
receives a note because being anactor is so vulnerable and like,
you're just throwing yourself. And you know what?
This is like something I feel like I really understood for the
(52:05):
first time is how, how how much control actors let go of how
much they give you and then how much trust they have that you
will take care of them on the other side.
And that responsibility is intense and so powerful.
It's so powerful to be given that gift of like I did all
these takes for you. I let you choose which one that
(52:28):
you think fits on the body and I'm going to be the face of the
of the body or whatever. Like, and that I feel like it's
really made me think about, you know, the future.
And like, you really do have to,you have to work with people who
are, who are going to learn, learn you as a whole person,
(52:49):
like who care enough to, to see you as full, because that's how
you can hand your whole self offto them and trust that they'll
put it together in a way that honours like your soul.
Totally. And I think it's like with great
power comes great responsibility, you know what I
mean? Like that?
Isn't that just like? Ain't that the truth?
That is like the. Thesis of what we can.
(53:11):
It's like it's just a lot of responsibility.
And I feel like if you take thatvery, very seriously, you know,
and, and the whole thing is likeevery day you're showing up and
you're promising everyone we're gonna make a great movie today.
Yes, we're gonna make a great movie today.
You know, of course to all the actors, but also every single
person works in the movie. Yeah.
Did we do it? We finished.
I think we did. That's the end of the podcast.
(53:33):
The weird way to end?
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