February 9, 2023 • 50 mins
Topics covered include: Mecca, the art of walking a fine line, Ramy’s inner Arab negotiator, hot-button issues, mercy, relatable characters in unrelatable worlds, miracles of filmmaking, how Ramy beat Mahershala at one-on-one basketball, fractured attention, pimple management, comfort zones, Mahershala’s dream of directing, the urgency of the daily lunch order on set, killing vampires in Atlanta, and the Sheikh-Ramy fight scene we need to see in Season 4.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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(00:07):
Hi, and welcome back today. 24 podcast Rami.
Yusuf is the multi-hyphenate star and creator of Rami on
Hulu. And the first guest to make a
return appearance on the Pod. For today's episode, we arranged
a zoom catch up between Romney and his season to CoStar and 824
Treasurer. Marshall Ali with her
conversation. May lack, an audio quality it
more than makes up for in heart.We hope you enjoy it.
(00:30):
Well, Marshal Ali or the 824 podcast, along with my brother
from another mother, driving Rusev here, they 24 podcast
rehearsal. Alleys, this is fun.
Ronnie. I know you're leading the way on
this because you're the let me ask you something.
All right, so let me ask you because I heard you while I was
(00:51):
on you you were looking at my have this resume profile photo
of. I don't even know where it's
from, but it's this like Really it's just really beautiful
architectural, gorgeous thing, where the sunlights kind of
coming in, right. So it's like dark and the sun
lights coming in and it looks like this beautiful place to
(01:11):
pray and then you started talking about pilgrimages and I
was like and I started thinking,oh and you have you been to
Mecca? Have you done it from home?
No dude, no. You like, you know, spiritually,
bragging over there right now, Isee you now.
Yeah, like I'm good, I haven't done the big one, you know, I
(01:35):
think like, you know, for those who don't know, it's there's
there's many pilgrimages you cando that anytime and then there's
the Hajj, which is like, it comes in the big Aid.
After the some side, the yeah, the big read that comes after
the Ramadan. Eid.
Yeah, it's like I haven't done the one.
I've been done the 11. But I've done them, any one of
kind of, I think that's emblematic of my personality and
(01:57):
you don't kind of done with no damage when you do it, you gotta
do like DJ. Khaled just be like, filming the
prayer. The next day this is all about
positivity. You're also very pot.
No, use your, you know, I find you to be like just being
outside with you in, you know, -or degree weather monorail.
(02:23):
Track, I left them here, so they're really positive guy.
I have to try, you know, becauseyou start going to thoughts,
take over, you start going down that that rabbit hole.
And, and then how I feel when I get into a negative space is not
pleasant to be around, you know.It kind of sucked the energy out
(02:43):
of the room. So I try to keep it relatively
uplifted, you know, and shoot your that way like for sure.
And it's Hiring, you know, just in general just your energy and
your ability to just Galvanize. People bring people together,
always thinking about other people before yourself.
It's pretty extraordinary, man. Well, I mean, working with you
(03:04):
the same as I was like, I remember we work with you for
like a couple days and then we were like, oh he's not a factory
because you're so good. So we're like he's gotta be a
factory. Like he's probably really like
pensive and like meditation and it's like it's like you're
definitely a pensive guy, but I'd like in a good way.
But onset is just all jokes We have fun and I need to say
(03:25):
because I had my head in the sand at the time.
So I got to the third season late but man, what a fantastic
season bro. What a fantastic season man.
And let me say real quick one ofthe things I quite appreciate it
was you know just watching your show in general.
It's there's just an inherent degree of anxiety that I think
(03:47):
as an audience member you just you just carry, you know, and
you're always room for around meeven though you get annoyed.
I'd with them and, you know, allthat kind of thing.
But what I thought was really interesting and a little
unsettling was and you can correct me if I'm wrong but it's
just how I interpreted the sort of the flow and course of the
(04:09):
season. Was we do it.
We have people that were in close proximity to that do it
but there's that thing where somebody sort of like settles
into a certain type of mediocrity like are like Settles
into a way of being that isn't necessarily their highest soap.
And what I always appreciated about Rami was that he was
(04:33):
always like very consciously struggling toward trying to be
the best version of themself even though, you know, he trips
up time and time again and that's what makes it so
entertaining. And there was a sense in the
third season for me that it was almost like he had outgrown that
struggle. Yeah.
Like he'd kind of dipped into a place where moment, you know,
(04:56):
because the season goes by so quick, but there is this sense
that, you know what, I'm still in feeling, good about myself,
I'm earning money, I can take care of myself, I couldn't help
my family feel accepted, but this is I'm kind of going down
this path even though he's trying to get things right with
a nap and everything like that. But there was a sense that he
(05:17):
was kind of like settling into something.
And then before, it's all over, The Rami that we know, there's
that. Awakening, that Reawakening that
happens, you know? And I just thought it was, it
was just so well done. And the other thing I love is
that everybody gets their momenton that show, you know?
(05:38):
And as somebody who's come up inthis business where so many
times, your kind of like tucked away in the periphery, it's
really beautiful and refreshing to see people who kind of just
got up. They play their part.
They come in, they make their Bution.
And then you know you kind of keep moving the story along but
then suddenly they're the star of the show for an episode and
(05:59):
you get to you get to like, really get to know a character
and really relate to how they are as an individual dealing
with their own path, their Journey, their issues, their
struggles, their aspirations. And so, in a certain way,
there's like every character on that show is sort of equal and
in a sense of course we see a lot more of you than anyone else
(06:21):
but everybody feels. Horton.
And that's a great achievement man.
And like, you know, you're clearly the showrunner and
writer and all that kind of stuff.
So I'm sure that there's some awareness of that but just as an
actor who hasn't necessarily hasn't been in a position where
you're where I'm show running orhave any desire to even attempt
that crazy to see how well you take care of your characters is
(06:46):
one of the things that makes theshow really fascinating.
So I just think that there's a real generosity.
Paucity and how you present these characters and even as a
real generosity in the people you give opportunity to.
I do for instance, you know, whothe audience may not be aware
(07:07):
of, but she plays he plays. Yeah.
Do you know about love interest?Yeah.
You know, and I was just smilingfrom ear to ear.
I had to text them and just let him know, bro.
I'm so proud of you, man. Did he did fantastic work and
here it is. Yeah, I think you do.
And I saw that text three minutes after you send them
where I'm getting. I'm getting out.
(07:27):
I'll call me be like yo man. Rehearsal it says I'm a good
actor and I'm like, dear God. I've created a monster who
killed it killed it. I really killed it.
So, so Leo, that that's a reallylong winded way of me saying,
congratulations and just just fantastic work, man.
I just such a, you're such a bigpart of it, man.
(07:49):
Like, I mean, I think, you know,you coming into our show show
was really one of the best things that could have happened.
Not only did the show, but I think just to me as a person
because I think that I felt first off, I couldn't believe
that you were a fan of the show,which was amazing, but then it
was amazing too. I think, you know, in terms of
(08:10):
just being generous with a story, right.
I think that I had always gone into making something with the
desire that what we're trying todo the philosophical idea, the
higher, Asian is the thing that we're serving, right?
So it's like, this is a show. Yes, the show is called Rami,
which was, you know, if you knewme back then you'd know how hard
(08:32):
I was brainstorming for alternate titles, but it's what
we ended up calling it. But the real thing we were
really trying to do is show Faith as a real human inner
struggle and show it as something that I think, you
know, in a grounded human way watching someone Aspire watching
somebody seek and I think part of what you're talking about in
(08:53):
What shifted in the Romney character in the third season
was, we went in saying oh this is the first time we're going to
see this character not seeking, but what does it look like if he
turned that off? He's exhausted of seeking but
the show began and I think by the end of the season, you know,
he's back to seeking but it really began with this active
(09:14):
desire to show spiritual seekingand in a way that felt human,
that felt real and that didn't treat religion like a punch
line. Also didn't dance around the
topic in a way where you're afraid to say things, right?
And so I kind of went and sayinglike I'm serving that idea.
That's, that's the thing that's most important.
And so I think when we realize that we were going to have you
(09:37):
in our show, we were already like a month into a writers room
and had a bunch of ideas that I've been stewing on.
And then I think he your arrivalinto it, we basically undid
everything that we were doing and what was so joyful about
that for me, even though It actually was kind of stressful
and I didn't want to fuck it up and I wanted you to be happy and
(09:58):
I wanted like it to work for thestory and I wanted all these
things. What was really joyful about it
and why I say kind of like changed my life was because I
realized that I got to put to the test the reality of like,
oh, this isn't just about like serving what's in my head.
It's like, I'm actually trying to serve this idea that the show
is about. So even though it's
quote-unquote, my show the show actually belongs to the idea
(10:21):
that we set out to do. Everything else comes after that
and so mercilessly Ali wants to be on the show.
After we talked, like I asked you and you said, yes, I had to
ask and then I was like, oh crap, like he said, yes, like
shit. You feel like I thought?
He blessed guess 22 Episodes. Did it was like, how about
three? How about four?
How about five? I was like Robbie you got this
(10:43):
much time, let's just do it in this timeframe.
I'll do it for me. I know it.
Really. I mean, you know, that's just
the air and I'm so horny too. All right, so funny don't like,
I'm kind of like, all right, youknow like what the best deal we
can get here. How much, how much can we
squeeze out of, you know, this time with her salamis varicella,
so it but it was really expansive is what I'm trying to
(11:06):
say. It was really expansive to
bringing your character. It totally shifted the DNA of
the show in a way that I think the show needed it was kind of a
spiritual process, even meeting you having it work out having it
go from two to six episodes or whatever.
I think I might have Six and andthen have that lead into what
(11:27):
the third season was because I think the shift we kind of make
from season to season have felt emblematic of years in a
person's life. You know, there's the year
you're really seeking and everything feels hopeful, and I
would say, the season we did with you is like, oh, there's
this year where there is still that seeking, but it's starting
to feel like the walls are closing in on you.
And then this third season really has this.
(11:48):
You know what I'm sick of that? Feeling of the walls closing in
on me. I'm sick of the feeling of
Antiquing and failing and falling.
So instead of these walls collapsing on me, I'm just going
to leave the room. I'm not even going to try and do
what I was trying to do. And then of course the room
pulls him back into, but it's like, it has been this really
great journey and I remember like, yeah, I think I remember
(12:08):
us having a conversation after the second season and I was
like, dude, thank you for doing this.
It really, like, I feel like I learned the sauce of our show
after doing the first two seasons and trying so many
different things. And I think in many ways, The
third season is a reflection of the balance of like profound and
(12:29):
profane and serious and funny and kind of riding those lines
in a way that that, yeah, I feel.
I feel so, yeah. So thankful for, you know, the
work we got to do on it because it really.
Yeah. Just implementing your like a
person. I want to segue because of of
you, sort of speaking on these on the like the polarity of the
(12:50):
show and one of the things That continues to impress me and I
sincerely mean this. I can, their few shows I can
point to where I see someone a writer, a team of writers, a
showrunner really put on display, the art of walking a
fine line and you do it time andtime again on the show.
(13:15):
And you've done it from the beginning where you're able to
sometimes have Rami act as an observer or just ask the
audience. Even you're just seeing And I
don't mean this in a negative way but with the baggage of
Islam again I don't mean that ina negative way but I just mean
we're with what we understand the teachings to be generally
even if we're wrong about some of those things and you do
(13:37):
wonderful job and sometimes highlighting the specifics that
actually offer an opportunity for people to correct how they
make think of something in this season.
It was sort of israel-palestine stuff and be able to speak on
that in a way that was still like entertaining.
Meaning but like hitting at somesome real truths to Uncle Naseem
(13:57):
and his sexuality, the things that Romney continues to tackle
over and over again. It just is there so many things
if I went through your show where you're, you know, you're
commenting on the uyghurs in China and there's things that
you'll constantly get into and you're able to time and time
again. Hit that right spot on the mark,
where someone can watch it, embrace it here, truth in it.
(14:20):
Maybe they choose to be offended, I don't know, but my
We need it just feels spot on time and time again.
And I imagine you guys have to have a lot of conversations when
you dip into these sort of hot button issues or maybe not,
maybe you guys have such a clearunderstanding of how to tackle
these things. Like maybe you don't spend a lot
of time concerned about something or or walking things
(14:41):
back or any of that. But that's one of the most most
impressive things is that you hit all these topics that can be
really taboo, culturally Taboo in Islam, you know, and you're
able to Speak to them in a way where you're not.
You don't hide, you know? Yeah, I yeah I appreciate that.
I mean, it's I appreciate you noticing it obviously because I
think that you know, the intention is never to like be
(15:03):
Sensational and it's never done.You know, we're never trying to
exacerbate, anything that is already inflamed.
But I think what we're trying todo is bring something human and
flawed to it and I think like a lot of polarity in public
discourse is like you're right. I'm wrong.
I'm perfect. And you're saying I'm not
perfect. And the other side saying no, no
you're not. Perfect.
I'm perfect. It becomes combative.
(15:25):
And I think we really try to be precise in what we're saying,
it's not even about being gray because I do think we're
pointed. I think that we provide a very
pointed clear critique of the Israeli government and Military.
And I think that we also high that conversation and just zoom
it out a little bit and show howlinked it is to being in a
(15:49):
country like America, whose government and Military.
Three operates almost identically if not, you know, a
blueprint for how what's happening over there is
happening. So you know to me it's always
like that. There isn't anything you can't
talk about. It's just what are you going to
(16:10):
put it next to you? Is you're talking about it, you
know. How are you going to?
It's like it's like there's all this information and and there's
all these feelings and I feel like, you know, this is my job,
but to stand up and then my job is someone in the show and A lot
of these things I try on stage first, and I kind of find the
buttons of like, oh wait, that'sprobably too far.
But my job is to take all those feelings.
Take all these things and actually organize it and weave
(16:32):
it in a way where you know, it'slike yeah ingredients that can
be tolerable and can actually open it up and expand into
something, right? Like you've never drink a cup of
vinegar but like you need it in hot sauce and you like hot
sauce, you know. And so it's like how do we take
these things that we know need to be said, but also, yeah,
there. They're part of something else.
(16:54):
Larger that feels like it's thatit's a painting of The Human
Condition. And I think the most interesting
spiritual principle to me is Mercy and I think we actually
try to have mercy with everything we talked about, you
know, I think that there is thisundercurrent, of, of Mercy
around even, you know, whether it be israel-palestine, whether
it be abortion, whether it be, you know, sexuality, whether it
(17:16):
be self-loathing, I think we tryto treat it with mercy and part
of that to me is like really along the wrong.
Character to kind of like go through the fire of, you know,
we're not protecting this guy, you know, and someone called him
making it personal for all everycharacter though to yeah.
Yeah, I think you do a wonderfuljob of honing in for each
character. Something that from the outside
(17:37):
could just be viewed as a flaw in someone.
And then once you humanize it, you understand that there's so
much more texture to the many things.
That so many of us are processing in our journey and
that's where the the mercy comesdown.
Because it's so connected to empathy, you know, and I think
you really protect the space forus to be empathetic towards
(17:59):
these characters. And I think that's where like I
have so much fun with centering the show around other
characters, you know, and I think we had such a great time
doing it with you on the show and then we have this amazing
cast of our family. And and I think like I think we
get that Embassy by switching the lens, you know, I grew up on
(18:21):
this mix of Loving Tarantino movies and Coen brothers,
movies, and loving Apatow movies.
And you know, in Apatow movie relate to everybody and in a
Coen brothers or a Tarantino movie, you relate to nobody
because everyone's so weird. And so it was always like, for
me. Oh how do you take those like
relatable characters and throw them in these really unrelatable
(18:43):
worlds, where all the charactersthat kind of strange, and it's a
really fun thing to do on the show.
It's like, you know, Romney's the guy we're following.
Every one, looks a little weird mom.
Looks a little weird. She seems one mind.
Did when we were in his point ofview is sister seems really like
aggressive and mean and and his dad seems zoned out.
But now we're following his sister and all of a sudden
Romney looks really weird but he's huge you know she feels
(19:04):
like she has it together a bit in comparison, he's got a way
more together and we totally getwhat's going on with her.
And I think in a way to that's kind of what it feels like.
You know, as a person and, you know, everyone on lines always
talking about, you know, I'm having my main character moment
or I feel like the main character, the hero or you know,
like that's like kind of all Really pervasive playing that I
(19:25):
really relate to because I thinkit's it's what's fun about
designing a story the way that we did.
And I think like something that I wanted to ask you about
because I think you're so cool and interesting because you are
someone who like I do think you're a transformative actor.
Like I think that you're somebody who genuinely does the
(19:46):
art and craft of acting in a waythat I really admire.
Like, I think you become somebody else.
Like I feel like I'm really excited.
Keep acting and expand and do different things.
And I also know there's always alittle bit of me in it, you
know. Like it's just kind of like how
I roll it but with you it's likeoh you are someone who really
you really embody it at the sametime, everything you do feels
(20:08):
kind of a piece like swan song, I thought the questions it was
asking in the way you embodied that and you also produce that I
guess I'm kind of curious like as you pick stuff and you're
doing more producing and all of that.
You're obviously could have picked so many things and like,
you pick our TV show after winning an Oscar right, like
(20:29):
it's like--there's. Like I'm sure I got, I'm kind
of, I wanted to directly, ask you like what your organizing
principle is for what you jump in do and what you do, thank you
for that, first of all. And one thing I do want to say
before I attempt to answer your question, I think on the flip
side just as you have more and more time just in the working in
the space I'm just curious and excited to see you.
(20:52):
In other people's projects and in other people's were just
because for a few years. Now, we basically seeing you if
it's on TV, it's essentially your work in your writing, even
though that's a shared effort. I'm sure.
You know, the writers, of course.
Yeah, it's called on. Yeah.
The show is the show, is named Rami, you know, part of your
(21:15):
responsibility is to bring a lotof yourself to it, you know?
So what I would love to see in your journey is, How you're
challenged. And what you discovered, the
more and more you work outside of your own universe or bubble
because I think that's where I think a lot will be revealed to
you about yourself and who you are as an actor when you don't
(21:36):
have the burden and and the luxury.
But it's also the burden of doing your own work because it's
the same for stand up like that your work you do and so there's
the voice there that you. Why would you want to get away
from that? Like, you have to embrace it and
you have to use it and you have to like, turn up the volume on
that. A little bit, right?
And so you're going to feel different.
The more and more you have opportunities to dip into to
(21:59):
working for and with other people.
So I just want to do that real quick, and I've only done that
like my entire acting. Life is choose from what someone
else was sort of putting in front of me.
So, with that said, you know, one of the things that I do,
listen for, when I read something, is I listen for where
(22:20):
fear comes up for me and usually, that's, Good indicator
for if it's going to be challenging.
And if I look for what's challenging?
Or if I listen for what's challenging?
Then, I think that in, that's inherently telling me that this
is something that goes beyond. Even if I have a sense that I
can do it, it's still something that goes beyond a space, that
(22:42):
is known for me, it's going beyond my comfort zone, and so
if it's going beyond my comfort zone, that means I got to do
something that I haven't done upuntil that point.
That's why the shakes terrified because I hadn't done that, you
know, when you asked me I was itmade me nervous and closer, we
got to it. I got even more nervous about
it. Then it pushes me to the prayer
mat and I start asking for help to make it, to make it easier
(23:06):
for me. And one of the things I really
want to be able to do that, I'vealways wanted to be able to do
was to sort of transform to leave enough of myself behind
where I didn't feel immediately energetically recognizable and
to really give Or to the given circumstances and really try to
commit to someone else's aspirations problems and issues.
(23:30):
And I think with that sort of rigid unbending commitment, I
think you can get there. You know, I think it's just a
muscle, you know, that you have to keep sort of working on and I
do think it for some people thatmight be easier than others.
I don't know where I fall on that scale.
I really don't because I don't know myself.
(23:50):
But I do think that that's It's always sort of a goal is to find
something that I haven't had a chance to experience.
I don't have a desire to play another Washington lobbyist or
whatever, you know, unless it was like so different from the
one I've already played, you know.
So I feel like I'm it's kind of probably just the Aquarius in
(24:11):
me. That always wants to be doing
something different and experiencing something different
and probably have a little add tucked away up in there
somewhere. Where I just I have to it's only
going to interest me if it's something.
That is new, you know, and that really grabs my attention and
scares me enough for me to really stay focused on on the
(24:32):
outcome from the sent the outcome, in a sense of it coming
to life and feeling like that. Feels alive after you read it or
after you do a take or two. Because I can also hear when
it's Fallen flat. I can feel when it's not, when
it's not alive yet. And so that's for music.
Yeah. Yeah.
When it comes alive, you you feel chemistry like and working
(24:52):
with you? I felt chemistry, I felt it.
You know it's times when you walk through it and say okay
that's cool but then you get in take 3 and something like pops
and happens that you can't quiteput your finger on and you go
that's what I'm looking for. And once you once, you've
experienced that before, you're constantly on the hunt for that
and if a day or seen fall short of that, it's hard to live with
(25:12):
that. Disappointment for me, it's not
a great film. So it's really it's really just
wanting to wanted to meet a new character wanting to meet a new
person. Want to meet a new opportunity
and best. I can try to prep myself to make
that character believable to myself and to the audience, you
know. And so I think that's where the
(25:33):
work is because the rest kind ofjust have to kind of happen with
the magic of the day, you know? Yeah.
Just be open to that to that appearing, you know.
And I mean so interesting because you talk about even
like, yeah, putting your head down on the Mac and I think like
for me to like having prayer as part of my life for You know,
approaching this spiritually, you realize how spiritual this
(25:57):
business actually is like in a beautiful way because it's like,
there's these pages that have been written that were trying to
bring the life, but we don't seethem yet.
Like, it's like, you need like sounds, you know, like, like it
even sounds like a parable. When you talk about what it
takes to make a movie, like, there is so much believing in
the Unseen and there is so much what can we find ourselves in
(26:20):
this and bring it? And When any of it ever comes
together like I don't think I just haven't met any great
director. That isn't kind of expressive of
the fact of, you know, it's a miracle that thing came
together. You know you no one no one seems
like that cocky of you know, of course this was going to work,
you know, I think everyone like whoa it's a miracle that all
(26:42):
that worked out if the miracle didn't rain, it's a miracle did
rain. It's a miracle that, you know,
we didn't die. It's like it's really.
There's so much faith. Faith and hoping and gratitude
in it, it's really hunger. It's real.
It's a really humbling profession in a way like it
blows my mind. If I if I meet someone that is
in this business and they're they're arrogant because of Mike
(27:04):
so much can go wrong. Yeah.
Like it you know and and so I feel I constantly feel like
really humbled by this business and by the task of Storytelling,
I don't know how anyone there again and I think speaking to of
like It was something I wanted to bring up on the podcast that
(27:25):
I think a lot of people wouldn'tknow that, you know, almost
really fractured, our working relationship.
We were in the middle of shooting and I challenge you to
a one-on-one basketball game, you know.
And I think you kind of showed up with some arrogance of like
I'm gonna win this and you you had this like, of course, I'm
gonna win this and I think we have a real good time and I
(27:46):
don't think we played the five and I want, I One.
And there is footage. There's there's like there's
footage. Oh my God.
I don't know where it is, but yeah.
How did that feel? Like, were you ate like, how did
you read? Conjure, you know the serenity
of the shake after, you know, you were pretty defeated.
(28:09):
I think it made me, made me feellike next time I play you I need
to have on some shorts. That's what I felt like.
I don't think either of us were for the game but I was Easy off.
Pier shots. I mean, it wasn't.
You got me? You got me.
I will admit. You got me.
Unfortunately, that happens to me all the time, though, in
(28:30):
basketball. I wasn't quite to get prepared
for your game. Well, this is what I think.
I get so underestimated in basketball that I usually win
the first game, and then I lose the next six because it's
whoever I'm against is like, oh,I can't believe I let you do
that. And now I'm gonna, if you
notice, I did not accept the second game because I knew it
(28:51):
would happen. I know.
I haven't talked about that in afew years now, but I probably
got called away from lunch. This probably would have it.
That's how I'm not playing with.Just my left hand next time when
we get here is a thing. I think for me it's really
important that there isn't a next time.
Like I think we just got to that's our, that's our record
against each other. I want to know and we never play
(29:12):
another game gap. That's because I want to ask
what was space feels most organic.
For you when you think about like all the things that you
that you do that you're doing just on Rami alone you could use
to joke with you because you just did everything.
(29:32):
What whether it's you know, stand up or acting show running
writing producing on maybe the 10 other things that I don't
know about that you do and are into.
Is there a space that feels moreof a?
Not even a strong suit but that where you just feel most
comfortable and or is it all of the above that?
It is it all sort of the same for you to some degree?
(29:56):
No, I think. It's like, I think it's about
what kind of related to what youwere saying.
Like because I like when you were saying you feel like
there's that, add tucked away, and I feel and I feel like
there's this big conversation about about 80 dienes.
That is definitely a big part ofour culture because I think all
(30:17):
of our attention and getting so fractured.
And so I feel like that Absolutely happening.
And then I think there's certainpeople who are on top of that,
even more prone to wear their attention goes.
And I think part of why I think I enjoy doing so many things is
because it truly keeps me focused.
(30:37):
Like I actually can't look away.And I think I like that, it
demands that of me. So sometimes I would have this
fear of like I'm only doing one thing that I kind of drift away
and I come back but it's like when I'm doing three things it's
like, well, okay, maybe I lookedaway from this but like I can't
because there's other things going to pull.
Me back in. You know, I'm not just acting,
I'm not just this, I'm not just that right, but, but I also
think that there's like, some ina way.
(30:59):
There's some youth in that too. And I think like as I've gotten
to make the show, you know, we've been making a show since
2017 and I think now it's like I've been doing this for six
years and the the more that I doit, I'm I'm just starting to
take my time more and just Zone in on one part of the process
more, you know, like this season.
(31:20):
I really made an effort. For it to, okay, how many can I
like, things? Can I direct where I'm just not
in it? You know, if that is that
brings, you know, a lot of joy to me to just only be focused on
that for a day while I'm on set.And so I think the answer is
really for me. It's like I don't think that
I've gotten to a place where I can actually say like one is
(31:42):
genuinely better than the other but I will say lately, I felt
it. When I'm directing something
I've written you know, like I think I think the combo of of
that Feels really focusing because I still get that thing
where it's like, I can't really look away because it's like,
okay, not just getting it on thepage.
But then there's all these otherdecisions we got to do is, we're
shooting. And so there's something about
(32:03):
balancing, those two things where I feel really comfortable,
and then I like not having to bein shape or or like I don't
there's I'm not as aware of like, pimple management, you
know, I can kind of You gotta lay when it be a bit, right?
(32:24):
You know, yeah. Cuz the vanity will drive you
know like I could just kind of chill and be like you know not
cut my hair for a while. Although part of broadly this
season, I like actually cut my hair with like our season.
My hair was too long. I look back.
That was one thing where I was like, man, my hair was long like
I had I got a good I found grow up the Egyptian F role in
(32:46):
silhouette. Yeah I know.
Yeah it was a Vibe but I kind ofstepped away and I was like
that. Look a little little raggedy
there, a couple of times to justlook like I did, you know, if it
the character he was not taking care of himself.
But yeah, I do think that there is, I've been enjoying that.
But to your point, I think beingin, you know, in situations
(33:07):
where I'm acting in something that I like, you know, I got to
do the film with your ghost that's coming out this year and
that was like what you describedin a sense for me because I
said, oh wow, I'm here. It's late. 1800's.
I have a British accent. Okay, Obviously isn't me.
There's and again there's some of it that has parts of me, but
it did feel like the beginning of felt like the beginning of
(33:30):
flexing, something that I don't know and and that was really
replenishing. So since I'm saying like, I
don't, I don't think I can like,you know, I think, I think
though what I do like and this is probably the Immigrant kid in
me, the thing, I probably holy net out at would like the
writing directly piece like enjoying it even more.
Is that I feel like Like I have more control that like there's
(33:55):
this part of me that's like I'm not waiting for a phone call.
I don't have to worry about likejust somebody like me, I don't
have to like, I'll make like, like I'm just built like, I want
to make stuff, you know, we finished shooting a season this
13 and I finished post and I wasso exhausted, I was like, man.
I can't work, you know, and thenfour days went by five days went
by and had one day that I was bymyself.
And I was just like I let me sleep in and then I was just
(34:16):
thinking of something that made me laugh and I was like sort of
like writing on my notes and my Apple notes on my phone and then
And I started being like, in this case, you know, I want to
wait to put this in the show, maybe it could be like a short
film. I met this guy at Prospect Park,
he had like a nice camera, like maybe just like shoot this at
the short next week and I'm likeall this comes from like it's
(34:37):
just who you are, who you are. And I know I could do this and
maybe some of that safety and kind of growing up with like,
the The anxiety of how are we gonna pay our bills, or okay?
We're like just kind of making it but any check.
(34:58):
We get, we're sending a bunch ofit back to Egypt, you know,
there's always this like, nothing is ever really enough.
You're never really quite where you need to be and and all these
things that I really, you know, respect my parents for going
through and but then I like, look at myself.
I'm like, oh yeah, I have that. And maybe I do feel more
comfortable, like knowing like, you know, I can you know okay no
(35:20):
matter what I could write and even if I lose Hands.
I could dictate. And even if I lose my voice,
I'll figure something out. You can kind of, like, you're
always planning for for a disaster.
When do you, when do you feel that calling to do stand-up?
That must feel like an unique feeling.
I feel like and what surprised me just in spending time with
(35:42):
you? I remember being surprised by
how eager and at ease you appeared to to be about just
going up. On stage and not really even
knowing what you're going to do.Like I don't understand that
like that's not a thing. I understand that feels Really
Brave to me but I doubt you describe it that way.
(36:03):
Yeah, yeah. I think the more you had called
are you hanging out with stand-up comics?
It's hard to assign bravery to any of it.
They're like with a bunch of comic to like all this is an
elevated sickness that people have been duped into thinking as
modern-day philosophy. But no it's I think it's It is
desired to connect, it feels forme.
(36:27):
It feels exciting. Just again like have an idea and
I like it because we're making the show writing and whatever it
feels. So every moment feels so
precious and you want precision and we'll like battle back and
forth about a line and do all that and eventually you find
that precision and stand up but you don't need to have that this
(36:50):
Tuesday night like this too. Day night.
You can just try to half idea this Tuesday night.
You can try something, you thought of Tuesday, morning, and
it could connect where you can learn about the idea that
there's no Gap. So, I think the part of me
that's like loves the instantaneousness of it, loves
the feeling of that, kind of feedback and back and forth.
(37:14):
Yeah, that I really like, and I think it is fun to talk to
people on stage. I don't really like doing, like
the crowd work thing where like,you go up and just like, make
like Zing people. It almost feels too easy but I
do like the thing where you do talk to people and kind of find
something and weave it into something that you were already
carrying and and and and I thinkthat's been really fun.
Like I think you know it's funnywe have this whole storyline.
(37:35):
There are four season where Ronnie falls in love with his
cousin. But it came out of this like
this crowd work interaction. I had at the Laugh Factory, I
don't know if I ever told you this but it was like the Laugh
Factory and I thought this couple was on a date and they
looked at me like I was crazy and is like, no, dude, this is
my cousin like how can you thinkwe're on a date?
(37:58):
And I was like, what if she's your cousin?
And I just remember like the whole room life being like, what
are you like the other systems like this mix of like laughter
and discussed. And I would like, I would be
honest. A lot of people in my family are
each other's cousins and never look back you know there's just
like this. But then again, people in the
(38:23):
crowd who were like, oh yeah, I know you're talking about, and I
remember the first time I started talking about that.
It was, it was it almost felt like this, like 15-minute Town
Hall of someone being like that's gross.
No, no, I get it. Whoa, wait, what the science of
it? When it isn't messed up, we
shouldn't do it. And then someone be like, you
know, like it was just whole thing and that value really is
(38:45):
what the Wailing. Very another couple is married.
I got a letter from them. Really changed our lives and
give us The Bravery to do. What we what we didn't think
that, you know, that we want to do ya mad.
So that that's almost did it. I was didn't way when I went to
go, see you in Atlanta. I was like, that's really fun to
(39:07):
like, go to a different city andthen just get up there.
It's a great way to just be in acity and meet people and and
just see like, what are the sensibilities here?
Kind of different everywhere. Yeah, them.
Yeah. I've never really considered
how, how that's definitely part of The experience and adventure
of being up, there is doing comedy in Atlanta and and where
(39:28):
you're doing, it in Atlanta would be totally different from
doing it in Southern, California, or Jersey or New
York or wherever else her London, you know, it's like,
yeah, why? I just did stand up in London
and, you know, they're just, it's so clear, how funny they
find us and not in like not a good way.
Comedy in it right now, you guysare fucking funny.
(39:48):
You guys are really, you know, you got it right running around
with guns. No healthcare like it's like
you've you like steel that it's not even a judgment.
It's just like accuracy from a different point of view where
you like oh my God we are and that that's always really.
I think it's the same thing. You're talking about it, like
digging into a character, like Ifeel like the way you, I feel
(40:09):
like you get to know characters,so you can just get to know
people and get to know the human.
Why are we here in this condition?
And it's the same thing. It's like, oh yeah, getting to
do this. Get up, onstage, do all that.
It's like just to get to know people and you.
Just feel something different for a night.
Yeah. That's been something that feels
so, so fun to than figure out. I wanted this work on screen and
(40:32):
yeah man, I'm like something that I did feel with you when we
did and in terms of roles because it's like the question
that like, I'm like I'm waiting for rehearsal Ali, the director.
And when that's going to, yes, Ineed to know what's going to
happen. I know it's gonna happen.
What's going to pay that to happen because I felt it when we
were working on was like, yeah. This dude known everything
(40:54):
that's happening right now whichwas for me actually comforting.
Like, At first, I was like, all right, you made it not
intimidating because you were basically like, you know, I'm
still on your side and so like, hey, here's a suggestion, here's
whatever. Because I love this and I want
to be here. So I was just like, whoa, I have
this Instinct teammate, but I was kind of Blown Away by how
much you did see me of everything that was going on.
(41:17):
Yeah. Like, when that happened, I hope
sooner than later, you know, andI definitely, we spoke about
this. I definitely wanted to do that
on your show, but I've said a huge huge part of my comfort in.
Just Community. I'm pretty good about
communicating my ideas to whatever director I'm working
(41:38):
with. But it was, it was hugely
inspiring working with you because you made something that
is extraordinarily difficult appear to be like fairly easy
just in. How you how you carry yourself.
Elf how you make choices? How you feel relatively
confident and the choices that you're making and just how you
(42:00):
interact with your crew, incorporate your DP into the
idea, you might go at least at that time.
Check in with Chris store about something, you know, you you do
the way you kind of do the dance.
And yeah, I think it's clear that you're aware of how much
falls on your shoulders, but youdo a wonderful job of Bringing
(42:22):
people in sort of like the way in which you sort of operate
with the light Council, you know, but good again, you're
clearly the lead here and just the way in which you navigate,
and communicate just your ideas and it definitely left.
It impact on me and I'm still sort of Blown Away at as to,
(42:46):
like, how you, how you do it alland how you manage it.
All, you know, some of that is just who you are.
But but the way, In which you just handle yourself as a
director. I love how you don't appear to
over. Think there's a lot of trust
than in how you work and operate.
And for me, I think it was the first time where I felt in real
(43:08):
time that, you know, I want to direct.
I do I do I or I admitted it to myself a lot of that, a lot of
it had to do with just watching how you how you operated and did
things, you know. So so I think Anything I felt
free or just to communicate whenwe try like this.
And yeah, you really, you reallydo.
(43:28):
Welcome at least with me. I felt felt like my thoughts and
ideas were always heard and embraced and if they worked cool
and if it didn't work, it didn'twork.
You know, we try something else or you tell me why something may
not work and we just wouldn't doit, you know.
But a lot of that just had to dowith just being in proximity to
you and because I can be heavy at times and a little I get a
(43:51):
little bit anxious. About like wasting work
opportunity or moments or you know and you thinking just your
presence encouraged me to sort of relax a bit you know.
And so I just appreciate it as how you approached it.
All I hadn't even I mean so muchbetter place.
You made it. Yeah you again like made it
(44:12):
really even ejected like this whole new life into it and that
was part of being able to feel like so much ease and Faith to
because it was like straight up.Like yeah, we're going, you know
we're going with this miracle oflike, wow, we're all here and
we're all doing this and like who would have thought, you
know? So that that had so much of the
energy flowing through it and it's funny to even like
(44:33):
mentioning, you know, store we didn't have them on Tina 3
because he was doing the bear, which is awesome.
You know, the menu, you know, it's so good.
I've sanded, I've seen it and it's funny because I've been
talking with him that he's been telling me about it.
And we've been talking about that show for years.
And talking about kitchen culture, this made me real
quick, it just Made me think about like these dudes and food,
(44:55):
man, like, Rami and Chris and food, like, you.
I know, I know that was the thing where you were, like, you
do everything because we would everyday, like, organized, a
lunch order, it didn't matter, like what was going on, even if
there's like a rewritable, got my trailer sandwich, we've got
this. Like, we looked up the sandwich.
Like, that's like, like most of the shoot would be like, what
(45:16):
are the middle of Staten Island somewhere?
Like, find the sandwich? Not a know.
We would like hunt people. Down.
Well, they grab random people and be like what's the
restaurant. I don't know about, you know.
And like we don't like we have like a huge casting issue.
There's like a fire going on. We lost the location.
We're dealing with all that. But then we're like, State
emergency where we eating very important.
(45:37):
You know, like we're like researching, like we got like a
food map but, you know, I got toknow, not just Chris but his
sister Courtney and Mike and andI love, you know, so much of
what they portrayed. It's just like this whole like,
you know, yes, chef no chef but I remember talking to To someone
at a restaurant, they were like,the only correct answers are
yes, chef. No Chef or I don't know chef.
(45:57):
And I think like my favorite oneis, I don't know Chef because it
couldn't has this like assertiveness.
And I feel like even to talk about light Council and having a
light Council around or, you know, to me like the way that I
enjoy having teams and like we build teams and and the show is
such a team effort, it's like, I'm like, maybe, you know, you
(46:20):
know, I was watching this great offer.
Go on YouTube and like the conductor's like sweating and
doing all this and, like, whatever.
But like, you know, this one dude has this solo and it's so
amazing and you're like, yeah, that guy is the star of the
show, you know? It's the guy singing.
I mean, like the conductor's doing the thing, but the guy
singing and it's like, it's justthat visualization of it and
kind of watching how that can take place on the best sets feel
(46:43):
like that, you know, it's like, everyone gets that moment to
shine. Everyone knows one thing.
The other person doesn't know and so it's like, how do you
Leverage, The Knowing and not knowing into something.
That's, you know, that has Harmony as opposed to like
needing to feel like, you know, everything or needing to feel
like, you know, you're manhandling or controlling the
(47:03):
thing. And I think that's what I find
fun about it. It how do we kind of make that
happen and then we kind of keep learning and it keeps growing
and all that and that yeah, that's been the fun part of the
journey with it. And so I think like, you know,
yeah, I was just cool, man. It was cool like talking about
it afterwards and and kind of feeling like Shadow Wonder,
like, what? What Movie rehearsal is going to
(47:25):
pick the direct and I don't knowlike what Vive even had sat with
you and your mind of what you jump and do, but it definitely
like something that I'm looking forward to well.
Actually, what type of movie I want to act in that I'm hoping
you will write direct, tell me. But I feel like I should tell
you offline so that it can actually happen.
(47:45):
Yeah, tell me. I've changed my mind.
I'm not gonna do. Put it up.
I'm serious though. No, I'll come to Atlanta, I find
them. Coming again next month almost
serious. You know.
So I need to shake his cool. I'm down.
I'll pop back in, you know. But I want to do, oh my God.
I don't think I want to take this season for just, I just got
(48:07):
to get out of man. I'm up here.
Empires 4 Years, bro. Like I gotta finish these
vampires in Atlanta for a secondabout that.
I was like, I don't know what, what, you know his look for
blade is but you know, Want to do this for the season.
We want to be the last one. We'll just go to Atlanta and
just get the, the, you know, we need the final like rehearsal
(48:29):
and so, you know, we'll just, we'll go to Italy.
Oh, I'm if you dress, this bladewill figure it out like, I don't
know. You shall all.
I'm doing is things and all, bro.
Good thing is, I should have a beard, so I should be ready to
go, but you know what? You just need shaking.
He's a fight scene. That's all good.
I mean, I mean, I think everyonewants to see the shaykh rabee
fight scene. So I mean, that don't have to be
(48:50):
you men, he saved you, maybe. Saves you just you know start
whooping ass you know. So I'll probably I'm totally
down but but yeah man. So I do I do look forward to to
working with you again because it is truly sincerely, one of
the only great joys of my career, but just one of the
(49:11):
great joys of my life, you are really one of those people who
who does like impact people's lives.
A man like you really do and I've seen it so many people.
I'm sure there's a long line. People who would be like, yo,
Mami like really impacted my life, man.
And it's just, you wouldn't evenknow it's just what you do, you
know, but, but it's just a real blessing, you know, getting to
(49:36):
work with you and to share time and space with you.
And, you know, continue to just be in contact with you.
And, you know, I need more of it.
So, anyway, I'm just putting, you know, I, I can say the same.
Exact thing back without any hyperbole.
I mean it truly. Yeah, what you did to our show
(49:58):
and my life is like, never to benever forgotten and you know and
then we get to commemorate a little bit of it I guess on this
was podcast, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah man.
I love you man. Love you too, brother.
Thanks for listening. The 824 podcast is produced by
(50:20):
us a 24 special. Thanks to our editor Tom Wyatt
and robot repair who composed our theme Thanks for listening.
The 824 podcast is produced by us a 24 special.
Thanks to our editor Tom Wyatt and robot repair who composed
our theme
Hi, and welcome back today. 24 podcast Rami.
Yusuf is the multi-hyphenate star and creator of Rami on
Hulu. And the first guest to make a
return appearance on the Pod. For today's episode, we arranged
a zoom catch up between Romney and his season to CoStar and 824
Treasurer. Marshall Ali with her
conversation. May lack, an audio quality it
more than makes up for in heart.We hope you enjoy it.
(00:30):
Well, Marshal Ali or the 824 podcast, along with my brother
from another mother, driving Rusev here, they 24 podcast
rehearsal. Alleys, this is fun.
Ronnie. I know you're leading the way on
this because you're the let me ask you something.
All right, so let me ask you because I heard you while I was
(00:51):
on you you were looking at my have this resume profile photo
of. I don't even know where it's
from, but it's this like Really it's just really beautiful
architectural, gorgeous thing, where the sunlights kind of
coming in, right. So it's like dark and the sun
lights coming in and it looks like this beautiful place to
(01:11):
pray and then you started talking about pilgrimages and I
was like and I started thinking,oh and you have you been to
Mecca? Have you done it from home?
No dude, no. You like, you know, spiritually,
bragging over there right now, Isee you now.
Yeah, like I'm good, I haven't done the big one, you know, I
(01:35):
think like, you know, for those who don't know, it's there's
there's many pilgrimages you cando that anytime and then there's
the Hajj, which is like, it comes in the big Aid.
After the some side, the yeah, the big read that comes after
the Ramadan. Eid.
Yeah, it's like I haven't done the one.
I've been done the 11. But I've done them, any one of
kind of, I think that's emblematic of my personality and
(01:57):
you don't kind of done with no damage when you do it, you gotta
do like DJ. Khaled just be like, filming the
prayer. The next day this is all about
positivity. You're also very pot.
No, use your, you know, I find you to be like just being
outside with you in, you know, -or degree weather monorail.
(02:23):
Track, I left them here, so they're really positive guy.
I have to try, you know, becauseyou start going to thoughts,
take over, you start going down that that rabbit hole.
And, and then how I feel when I get into a negative space is not
pleasant to be around, you know.It kind of sucked the energy out
(02:43):
of the room. So I try to keep it relatively
uplifted, you know, and shoot your that way like for sure.
And it's Hiring, you know, just in general just your energy and
your ability to just Galvanize. People bring people together,
always thinking about other people before yourself.
It's pretty extraordinary, man. Well, I mean, working with you
(03:04):
the same as I was like, I remember we work with you for
like a couple days and then we were like, oh he's not a factory
because you're so good. So we're like he's gotta be a
factory. Like he's probably really like
pensive and like meditation and it's like it's like you're
definitely a pensive guy, but I'd like in a good way.
But onset is just all jokes We have fun and I need to say
(03:25):
because I had my head in the sand at the time.
So I got to the third season late but man, what a fantastic
season bro. What a fantastic season man.
And let me say real quick one ofthe things I quite appreciate it
was you know just watching your show in general.
It's there's just an inherent degree of anxiety that I think
(03:47):
as an audience member you just you just carry, you know, and
you're always room for around meeven though you get annoyed.
I'd with them and, you know, allthat kind of thing.
But what I thought was really interesting and a little
unsettling was and you can correct me if I'm wrong but it's
just how I interpreted the sort of the flow and course of the
(04:09):
season. Was we do it.
We have people that were in close proximity to that do it
but there's that thing where somebody sort of like settles
into a certain type of mediocrity like are like Settles
into a way of being that isn't necessarily their highest soap.
And what I always appreciated about Rami was that he was
(04:33):
always like very consciously struggling toward trying to be
the best version of themself even though, you know, he trips
up time and time again and that's what makes it so
entertaining. And there was a sense in the
third season for me that it was almost like he had outgrown that
struggle. Yeah.
Like he'd kind of dipped into a place where moment, you know,
(04:56):
because the season goes by so quick, but there is this sense
that, you know what, I'm still in feeling, good about myself,
I'm earning money, I can take care of myself, I couldn't help
my family feel accepted, but this is I'm kind of going down
this path even though he's trying to get things right with
a nap and everything like that. But there was a sense that he
(05:17):
was kind of like settling into something.
And then before, it's all over, The Rami that we know, there's
that. Awakening, that Reawakening that
happens, you know? And I just thought it was, it
was just so well done. And the other thing I love is
that everybody gets their momenton that show, you know?
(05:38):
And as somebody who's come up inthis business where so many
times, your kind of like tucked away in the periphery, it's
really beautiful and refreshing to see people who kind of just
got up. They play their part.
They come in, they make their Bution.
And then you know you kind of keep moving the story along but
then suddenly they're the star of the show for an episode and
(05:59):
you get to you get to like, really get to know a character
and really relate to how they are as an individual dealing
with their own path, their Journey, their issues, their
struggles, their aspirations. And so, in a certain way,
there's like every character on that show is sort of equal and
in a sense of course we see a lot more of you than anyone else
(06:21):
but everybody feels. Horton.
And that's a great achievement man.
And like, you know, you're clearly the showrunner and
writer and all that kind of stuff.
So I'm sure that there's some awareness of that but just as an
actor who hasn't necessarily hasn't been in a position where
you're where I'm show running orhave any desire to even attempt
that crazy to see how well you take care of your characters is
(06:46):
one of the things that makes theshow really fascinating.
So I just think that there's a real generosity.
Paucity and how you present these characters and even as a
real generosity in the people you give opportunity to.
I do for instance, you know, whothe audience may not be aware
(07:07):
of, but she plays he plays. Yeah.
Do you know about love interest?Yeah.
You know, and I was just smilingfrom ear to ear.
I had to text them and just let him know, bro.
I'm so proud of you, man. Did he did fantastic work and
here it is. Yeah, I think you do.
And I saw that text three minutes after you send them
where I'm getting. I'm getting out.
(07:27):
I'll call me be like yo man. Rehearsal it says I'm a good
actor and I'm like, dear God. I've created a monster who
killed it killed it. I really killed it.
So, so Leo, that that's a reallylong winded way of me saying,
congratulations and just just fantastic work, man.
I just such a, you're such a bigpart of it, man.
(07:49):
Like, I mean, I think, you know,you coming into our show show
was really one of the best things that could have happened.
Not only did the show, but I think just to me as a person
because I think that I felt first off, I couldn't believe
that you were a fan of the show,which was amazing, but then it
was amazing too. I think, you know, in terms of
(08:10):
just being generous with a story, right.
I think that I had always gone into making something with the
desire that what we're trying todo the philosophical idea, the
higher, Asian is the thing that we're serving, right?
So it's like, this is a show. Yes, the show is called Rami,
which was, you know, if you knewme back then you'd know how hard
(08:32):
I was brainstorming for alternate titles, but it's what
we ended up calling it. But the real thing we were
really trying to do is show Faith as a real human inner
struggle and show it as something that I think, you
know, in a grounded human way watching someone Aspire watching
somebody seek and I think part of what you're talking about in
(08:53):
What shifted in the Romney character in the third season
was, we went in saying oh this is the first time we're going to
see this character not seeking, but what does it look like if he
turned that off? He's exhausted of seeking but
the show began and I think by the end of the season, you know,
he's back to seeking but it really began with this active
(09:14):
desire to show spiritual seekingand in a way that felt human,
that felt real and that didn't treat religion like a punch
line. Also didn't dance around the
topic in a way where you're afraid to say things, right?
And so I kind of went and sayinglike I'm serving that idea.
That's, that's the thing that's most important.
And so I think when we realize that we were going to have you
(09:37):
in our show, we were already like a month into a writers room
and had a bunch of ideas that I've been stewing on.
And then I think he your arrivalinto it, we basically undid
everything that we were doing and what was so joyful about
that for me, even though It actually was kind of stressful
and I didn't want to fuck it up and I wanted you to be happy and
(09:58):
I wanted like it to work for thestory and I wanted all these
things. What was really joyful about it
and why I say kind of like changed my life was because I
realized that I got to put to the test the reality of like,
oh, this isn't just about like serving what's in my head.
It's like, I'm actually trying to serve this idea that the show
is about. So even though it's
quote-unquote, my show the show actually belongs to the idea
(10:21):
that we set out to do. Everything else comes after that
and so mercilessly Ali wants to be on the show.
After we talked, like I asked you and you said, yes, I had to
ask and then I was like, oh crap, like he said, yes, like
shit. You feel like I thought?
He blessed guess 22 Episodes. Did it was like, how about
three? How about four?
How about five? I was like Robbie you got this
(10:43):
much time, let's just do it in this timeframe.
I'll do it for me. I know it.
Really. I mean, you know, that's just
the air and I'm so horny too. All right, so funny don't like,
I'm kind of like, all right, youknow like what the best deal we
can get here. How much, how much can we
squeeze out of, you know, this time with her salamis varicella,
so it but it was really expansive is what I'm trying to
(11:06):
say. It was really expansive to
bringing your character. It totally shifted the DNA of
the show in a way that I think the show needed it was kind of a
spiritual process, even meeting you having it work out having it
go from two to six episodes or whatever.
I think I might have Six and andthen have that lead into what
(11:27):
the third season was because I think the shift we kind of make
from season to season have felt emblematic of years in a
person's life. You know, there's the year
you're really seeking and everything feels hopeful, and I
would say, the season we did with you is like, oh, there's
this year where there is still that seeking, but it's starting
to feel like the walls are closing in on you.
And then this third season really has this.
(11:48):
You know what I'm sick of that? Feeling of the walls closing in
on me. I'm sick of the feeling of
Antiquing and failing and falling.
So instead of these walls collapsing on me, I'm just going
to leave the room. I'm not even going to try and do
what I was trying to do. And then of course the room
pulls him back into, but it's like, it has been this really
great journey and I remember like, yeah, I think I remember
(12:08):
us having a conversation after the second season and I was
like, dude, thank you for doing this.
It really, like, I feel like I learned the sauce of our show
after doing the first two seasons and trying so many
different things. And I think in many ways, The
third season is a reflection of the balance of like profound and
(12:29):
profane and serious and funny and kind of riding those lines
in a way that that, yeah, I feel.
I feel so, yeah. So thankful for, you know, the
work we got to do on it because it really.
Yeah. Just implementing your like a
person. I want to segue because of of
you, sort of speaking on these on the like the polarity of the
(12:50):
show and one of the things That continues to impress me and I
sincerely mean this. I can, their few shows I can
point to where I see someone a writer, a team of writers, a
showrunner really put on display, the art of walking a
fine line and you do it time andtime again on the show.
(13:15):
And you've done it from the beginning where you're able to
sometimes have Rami act as an observer or just ask the
audience. Even you're just seeing And I
don't mean this in a negative way but with the baggage of
Islam again I don't mean that ina negative way but I just mean
we're with what we understand the teachings to be generally
even if we're wrong about some of those things and you do
(13:37):
wonderful job and sometimes highlighting the specifics that
actually offer an opportunity for people to correct how they
make think of something in this season.
It was sort of israel-palestine stuff and be able to speak on
that in a way that was still like entertaining.
Meaning but like hitting at somesome real truths to Uncle Naseem
(13:57):
and his sexuality, the things that Romney continues to tackle
over and over again. It just is there so many things
if I went through your show where you're, you know, you're
commenting on the uyghurs in China and there's things that
you'll constantly get into and you're able to time and time
again. Hit that right spot on the mark,
where someone can watch it, embrace it here, truth in it.
(14:20):
Maybe they choose to be offended, I don't know, but my
We need it just feels spot on time and time again.
And I imagine you guys have to have a lot of conversations when
you dip into these sort of hot button issues or maybe not,
maybe you guys have such a clearunderstanding of how to tackle
these things. Like maybe you don't spend a lot
of time concerned about something or or walking things
(14:41):
back or any of that. But that's one of the most most
impressive things is that you hit all these topics that can be
really taboo, culturally Taboo in Islam, you know, and you're
able to Speak to them in a way where you're not.
You don't hide, you know? Yeah, I yeah I appreciate that.
I mean, it's I appreciate you noticing it obviously because I
think that you know, the intention is never to like be
(15:03):
Sensational and it's never done.You know, we're never trying to
exacerbate, anything that is already inflamed.
But I think what we're trying todo is bring something human and
flawed to it and I think like a lot of polarity in public
discourse is like you're right. I'm wrong.
I'm perfect. And you're saying I'm not
perfect. And the other side saying no, no
you're not. Perfect.
I'm perfect. It becomes combative.
(15:25):
And I think we really try to be precise in what we're saying,
it's not even about being gray because I do think we're
pointed. I think that we provide a very
pointed clear critique of the Israeli government and Military.
And I think that we also high that conversation and just zoom
it out a little bit and show howlinked it is to being in a
(15:49):
country like America, whose government and Military.
Three operates almost identically if not, you know, a
blueprint for how what's happening over there is
happening. So you know to me it's always
like that. There isn't anything you can't
talk about. It's just what are you going to
(16:10):
put it next to you? Is you're talking about it, you
know. How are you going to?
It's like it's like there's all this information and and there's
all these feelings and I feel like, you know, this is my job,
but to stand up and then my job is someone in the show and A lot
of these things I try on stage first, and I kind of find the
buttons of like, oh wait, that'sprobably too far.
But my job is to take all those feelings.
Take all these things and actually organize it and weave
(16:32):
it in a way where you know, it'slike yeah ingredients that can
be tolerable and can actually open it up and expand into
something, right? Like you've never drink a cup of
vinegar but like you need it in hot sauce and you like hot
sauce, you know. And so it's like how do we take
these things that we know need to be said, but also, yeah,
there. They're part of something else.
(16:54):
Larger that feels like it's thatit's a painting of The Human
Condition. And I think the most interesting
spiritual principle to me is Mercy and I think we actually
try to have mercy with everything we talked about, you
know, I think that there is thisundercurrent, of, of Mercy
around even, you know, whether it be israel-palestine, whether
it be abortion, whether it be, you know, sexuality, whether it
(17:16):
be self-loathing, I think we tryto treat it with mercy and part
of that to me is like really along the wrong.
Character to kind of like go through the fire of, you know,
we're not protecting this guy, you know, and someone called him
making it personal for all everycharacter though to yeah.
Yeah, I think you do a wonderfuljob of honing in for each
character. Something that from the outside
(17:37):
could just be viewed as a flaw in someone.
And then once you humanize it, you understand that there's so
much more texture to the many things.
That so many of us are processing in our journey and
that's where the the mercy comesdown.
Because it's so connected to empathy, you know, and I think
you really protect the space forus to be empathetic towards
(17:59):
these characters. And I think that's where like I
have so much fun with centering the show around other
characters, you know, and I think we had such a great time
doing it with you on the show and then we have this amazing
cast of our family. And and I think like I think we
get that Embassy by switching the lens, you know, I grew up on
(18:21):
this mix of Loving Tarantino movies and Coen brothers,
movies, and loving Apatow movies.
And you know, in Apatow movie relate to everybody and in a
Coen brothers or a Tarantino movie, you relate to nobody
because everyone's so weird. And so it was always like, for
me. Oh how do you take those like
relatable characters and throw them in these really unrelatable
(18:43):
worlds, where all the charactersthat kind of strange, and it's a
really fun thing to do on the show.
It's like, you know, Romney's the guy we're following.
Every one, looks a little weird mom.
Looks a little weird. She seems one mind.
Did when we were in his point ofview is sister seems really like
aggressive and mean and and his dad seems zoned out.
But now we're following his sister and all of a sudden
Romney looks really weird but he's huge you know she feels
(19:04):
like she has it together a bit in comparison, he's got a way
more together and we totally getwhat's going on with her.
And I think in a way to that's kind of what it feels like.
You know, as a person and, you know, everyone on lines always
talking about, you know, I'm having my main character moment
or I feel like the main character, the hero or you know,
like that's like kind of all Really pervasive playing that I
(19:25):
really relate to because I thinkit's it's what's fun about
designing a story the way that we did.
And I think like something that I wanted to ask you about
because I think you're so cool and interesting because you are
someone who like I do think you're a transformative actor.
Like I think that you're somebody who genuinely does the
(19:46):
art and craft of acting in a waythat I really admire.
Like, I think you become somebody else.
Like I feel like I'm really excited.
Keep acting and expand and do different things.
And I also know there's always alittle bit of me in it, you
know. Like it's just kind of like how
I roll it but with you it's likeoh you are someone who really
you really embody it at the sametime, everything you do feels
(20:08):
kind of a piece like swan song, I thought the questions it was
asking in the way you embodied that and you also produce that I
guess I'm kind of curious like as you pick stuff and you're
doing more producing and all of that.
You're obviously could have picked so many things and like,
you pick our TV show after winning an Oscar right, like
(20:29):
it's like--there's. Like I'm sure I got, I'm kind
of, I wanted to directly, ask you like what your organizing
principle is for what you jump in do and what you do, thank you
for that, first of all. And one thing I do want to say
before I attempt to answer your question, I think on the flip
side just as you have more and more time just in the working in
the space I'm just curious and excited to see you.
(20:52):
In other people's projects and in other people's were just
because for a few years. Now, we basically seeing you if
it's on TV, it's essentially your work in your writing, even
though that's a shared effort. I'm sure.
You know, the writers, of course.
Yeah, it's called on. Yeah.
The show is the show, is named Rami, you know, part of your
(21:15):
responsibility is to bring a lotof yourself to it, you know?
So what I would love to see in your journey is, How you're
challenged. And what you discovered, the
more and more you work outside of your own universe or bubble
because I think that's where I think a lot will be revealed to
you about yourself and who you are as an actor when you don't
(21:36):
have the burden and and the luxury.
But it's also the burden of doing your own work because it's
the same for stand up like that your work you do and so there's
the voice there that you. Why would you want to get away
from that? Like, you have to embrace it and
you have to use it and you have to like, turn up the volume on
that. A little bit, right?
And so you're going to feel different.
The more and more you have opportunities to dip into to
(21:59):
working for and with other people.
So I just want to do that real quick, and I've only done that
like my entire acting. Life is choose from what someone
else was sort of putting in front of me.
So, with that said, you know, one of the things that I do,
listen for, when I read something, is I listen for where
(22:20):
fear comes up for me and usually, that's, Good indicator
for if it's going to be challenging.
And if I look for what's challenging?
Or if I listen for what's challenging?
Then, I think that in, that's inherently telling me that this
is something that goes beyond. Even if I have a sense that I
can do it, it's still something that goes beyond a space, that
(22:42):
is known for me, it's going beyond my comfort zone, and so
if it's going beyond my comfort zone, that means I got to do
something that I haven't done upuntil that point.
That's why the shakes terrified because I hadn't done that, you
know, when you asked me I was itmade me nervous and closer, we
got to it. I got even more nervous about
it. Then it pushes me to the prayer
mat and I start asking for help to make it, to make it easier
(23:06):
for me. And one of the things I really
want to be able to do that, I'vealways wanted to be able to do
was to sort of transform to leave enough of myself behind
where I didn't feel immediately energetically recognizable and
to really give Or to the given circumstances and really try to
commit to someone else's aspirations problems and issues.
(23:30):
And I think with that sort of rigid unbending commitment, I
think you can get there. You know, I think it's just a
muscle, you know, that you have to keep sort of working on and I
do think it for some people thatmight be easier than others.
I don't know where I fall on that scale.
I really don't because I don't know myself.
(23:50):
But I do think that that's It's always sort of a goal is to find
something that I haven't had a chance to experience.
I don't have a desire to play another Washington lobbyist or
whatever, you know, unless it was like so different from the
one I've already played, you know.
So I feel like I'm it's kind of probably just the Aquarius in
(24:11):
me. That always wants to be doing
something different and experiencing something different
and probably have a little add tucked away up in there
somewhere. Where I just I have to it's only
going to interest me if it's something.
That is new, you know, and that really grabs my attention and
scares me enough for me to really stay focused on on the
(24:32):
outcome from the sent the outcome, in a sense of it coming
to life and feeling like that. Feels alive after you read it or
after you do a take or two. Because I can also hear when
it's Fallen flat. I can feel when it's not, when
it's not alive yet. And so that's for music.
Yeah. Yeah.
When it comes alive, you you feel chemistry like and working
(24:52):
with you? I felt chemistry, I felt it.
You know it's times when you walk through it and say okay
that's cool but then you get in take 3 and something like pops
and happens that you can't quiteput your finger on and you go
that's what I'm looking for. And once you once, you've
experienced that before, you're constantly on the hunt for that
and if a day or seen fall short of that, it's hard to live with
(25:12):
that. Disappointment for me, it's not
a great film. So it's really it's really just
wanting to wanted to meet a new character wanting to meet a new
person. Want to meet a new opportunity
and best. I can try to prep myself to make
that character believable to myself and to the audience, you
know. And so I think that's where the
(25:33):
work is because the rest kind ofjust have to kind of happen with
the magic of the day, you know? Yeah.
Just be open to that to that appearing, you know.
And I mean so interesting because you talk about even
like, yeah, putting your head down on the Mac and I think like
for me to like having prayer as part of my life for You know,
approaching this spiritually, you realize how spiritual this
(25:57):
business actually is like in a beautiful way because it's like,
there's these pages that have been written that were trying to
bring the life, but we don't seethem yet.
Like, it's like, you need like sounds, you know, like, like it
even sounds like a parable. When you talk about what it
takes to make a movie, like, there is so much believing in
the Unseen and there is so much what can we find ourselves in
(26:20):
this and bring it? And When any of it ever comes
together like I don't think I just haven't met any great
director. That isn't kind of expressive of
the fact of, you know, it's a miracle that thing came
together. You know you no one no one seems
like that cocky of you know, of course this was going to work,
you know, I think everyone like whoa it's a miracle that all
(26:42):
that worked out if the miracle didn't rain, it's a miracle did
rain. It's a miracle that, you know,
we didn't die. It's like it's really.
There's so much faith. Faith and hoping and gratitude
in it, it's really hunger. It's real.
It's a really humbling profession in a way like it
blows my mind. If I if I meet someone that is
in this business and they're they're arrogant because of Mike
(27:04):
so much can go wrong. Yeah.
Like it you know and and so I feel I constantly feel like
really humbled by this business and by the task of Storytelling,
I don't know how anyone there again and I think speaking to of
like It was something I wanted to bring up on the podcast that
(27:25):
I think a lot of people wouldn'tknow that, you know, almost
really fractured, our working relationship.
We were in the middle of shooting and I challenge you to
a one-on-one basketball game, you know.
And I think you kind of showed up with some arrogance of like
I'm gonna win this and you you had this like, of course, I'm
gonna win this and I think we have a real good time and I
(27:46):
don't think we played the five and I want, I One.
And there is footage. There's there's like there's
footage. Oh my God.
I don't know where it is, but yeah.
How did that feel? Like, were you ate like, how did
you read? Conjure, you know the serenity
of the shake after, you know, you were pretty defeated.
(28:09):
I think it made me, made me feellike next time I play you I need
to have on some shorts. That's what I felt like.
I don't think either of us were for the game but I was Easy off.
Pier shots. I mean, it wasn't.
You got me? You got me.
I will admit. You got me.
Unfortunately, that happens to me all the time, though, in
(28:30):
basketball. I wasn't quite to get prepared
for your game. Well, this is what I think.
I get so underestimated in basketball that I usually win
the first game, and then I lose the next six because it's
whoever I'm against is like, oh,I can't believe I let you do
that. And now I'm gonna, if you
notice, I did not accept the second game because I knew it
(28:51):
would happen. I know.
I haven't talked about that in afew years now, but I probably
got called away from lunch. This probably would have it.
That's how I'm not playing with.Just my left hand next time when
we get here is a thing. I think for me it's really
important that there isn't a next time.
Like I think we just got to that's our, that's our record
against each other. I want to know and we never play
(29:12):
another game gap. That's because I want to ask
what was space feels most organic.
For you when you think about like all the things that you
that you do that you're doing just on Rami alone you could use
to joke with you because you just did everything.
(29:32):
What whether it's you know, stand up or acting show running
writing producing on maybe the 10 other things that I don't
know about that you do and are into.
Is there a space that feels moreof a?
Not even a strong suit but that where you just feel most
comfortable and or is it all of the above that?
It is it all sort of the same for you to some degree?
(29:56):
No, I think. It's like, I think it's about
what kind of related to what youwere saying.
Like because I like when you were saying you feel like
there's that, add tucked away, and I feel and I feel like
there's this big conversation about about 80 dienes.
That is definitely a big part ofour culture because I think all
(30:17):
of our attention and getting so fractured.
And so I feel like that Absolutely happening.
And then I think there's certainpeople who are on top of that,
even more prone to wear their attention goes.
And I think part of why I think I enjoy doing so many things is
because it truly keeps me focused.
(30:37):
Like I actually can't look away.And I think I like that, it
demands that of me. So sometimes I would have this
fear of like I'm only doing one thing that I kind of drift away
and I come back but it's like when I'm doing three things it's
like, well, okay, maybe I lookedaway from this but like I can't
because there's other things going to pull.
Me back in. You know, I'm not just acting,
I'm not just this, I'm not just that right, but, but I also
think that there's like, some ina way.
(30:59):
There's some youth in that too. And I think like as I've gotten
to make the show, you know, we've been making a show since
2017 and I think now it's like I've been doing this for six
years and the the more that I doit, I'm I'm just starting to
take my time more and just Zone in on one part of the process
more, you know, like this season.
(31:20):
I really made an effort. For it to, okay, how many can I
like, things? Can I direct where I'm just not
in it? You know, if that is that
brings, you know, a lot of joy to me to just only be focused on
that for a day while I'm on set.And so I think the answer is
really for me. It's like I don't think that
I've gotten to a place where I can actually say like one is
(31:42):
genuinely better than the other but I will say lately, I felt
it. When I'm directing something
I've written you know, like I think I think the combo of of
that Feels really focusing because I still get that thing
where it's like, I can't really look away because it's like,
okay, not just getting it on thepage.
But then there's all these otherdecisions we got to do is, we're
shooting. And so there's something about
(32:03):
balancing, those two things where I feel really comfortable,
and then I like not having to bein shape or or like I don't
there's I'm not as aware of like, pimple management, you
know, I can kind of You gotta lay when it be a bit, right?
(32:24):
You know, yeah. Cuz the vanity will drive you
know like I could just kind of chill and be like you know not
cut my hair for a while. Although part of broadly this
season, I like actually cut my hair with like our season.
My hair was too long. I look back.
That was one thing where I was like, man, my hair was long like
I had I got a good I found grow up the Egyptian F role in
(32:46):
silhouette. Yeah I know.
Yeah it was a Vibe but I kind ofstepped away and I was like
that. Look a little little raggedy
there, a couple of times to justlook like I did, you know, if it
the character he was not taking care of himself.
But yeah, I do think that there is, I've been enjoying that.
But to your point, I think beingin, you know, in situations
(33:07):
where I'm acting in something that I like, you know, I got to
do the film with your ghost that's coming out this year and
that was like what you describedin a sense for me because I
said, oh wow, I'm here. It's late. 1800's.
I have a British accent. Okay, Obviously isn't me.
There's and again there's some of it that has parts of me, but
it did feel like the beginning of felt like the beginning of
(33:30):
flexing, something that I don't know and and that was really
replenishing. So since I'm saying like, I
don't, I don't think I can like,you know, I think, I think
though what I do like and this is probably the Immigrant kid in
me, the thing, I probably holy net out at would like the
writing directly piece like enjoying it even more.
Is that I feel like Like I have more control that like there's
(33:55):
this part of me that's like I'm not waiting for a phone call.
I don't have to worry about likejust somebody like me, I don't
have to like, I'll make like, like I'm just built like, I want
to make stuff, you know, we finished shooting a season this
13 and I finished post and I wasso exhausted, I was like, man.
I can't work, you know, and thenfour days went by five days went
by and had one day that I was bymyself.
And I was just like I let me sleep in and then I was just
(34:16):
thinking of something that made me laugh and I was like sort of
like writing on my notes and my Apple notes on my phone and then
And I started being like, in this case, you know, I want to
wait to put this in the show, maybe it could be like a short
film. I met this guy at Prospect Park,
he had like a nice camera, like maybe just like shoot this at
the short next week and I'm likeall this comes from like it's
(34:37):
just who you are, who you are. And I know I could do this and
maybe some of that safety and kind of growing up with like,
the The anxiety of how are we gonna pay our bills, or okay?
We're like just kind of making it but any check.
(34:58):
We get, we're sending a bunch ofit back to Egypt, you know,
there's always this like, nothing is ever really enough.
You're never really quite where you need to be and and all these
things that I really, you know, respect my parents for going
through and but then I like, look at myself.
I'm like, oh yeah, I have that. And maybe I do feel more
comfortable, like knowing like, you know, I can you know okay no
(35:20):
matter what I could write and even if I lose Hands.
I could dictate. And even if I lose my voice,
I'll figure something out. You can kind of, like, you're
always planning for for a disaster.
When do you, when do you feel that calling to do stand-up?
That must feel like an unique feeling.
I feel like and what surprised me just in spending time with
(35:42):
you? I remember being surprised by
how eager and at ease you appeared to to be about just
going up. On stage and not really even
knowing what you're going to do.Like I don't understand that
like that's not a thing. I understand that feels Really
Brave to me but I doubt you describe it that way.
(36:03):
Yeah, yeah. I think the more you had called
are you hanging out with stand-up comics?
It's hard to assign bravery to any of it.
They're like with a bunch of comic to like all this is an
elevated sickness that people have been duped into thinking as
modern-day philosophy. But no it's I think it's It is
desired to connect, it feels forme.
(36:27):
It feels exciting. Just again like have an idea and
I like it because we're making the show writing and whatever it
feels. So every moment feels so
precious and you want precision and we'll like battle back and
forth about a line and do all that and eventually you find
that precision and stand up but you don't need to have that this
(36:50):
Tuesday night like this too. Day night.
You can just try to half idea this Tuesday night.
You can try something, you thought of Tuesday, morning, and
it could connect where you can learn about the idea that
there's no Gap. So, I think the part of me
that's like loves the instantaneousness of it, loves
the feeling of that, kind of feedback and back and forth.
(37:14):
Yeah, that I really like, and I think it is fun to talk to
people on stage. I don't really like doing, like
the crowd work thing where like,you go up and just like, make
like Zing people. It almost feels too easy but I
do like the thing where you do talk to people and kind of find
something and weave it into something that you were already
carrying and and and and I thinkthat's been really fun.
Like I think you know it's funnywe have this whole storyline.
(37:35):
There are four season where Ronnie falls in love with his
cousin. But it came out of this like
this crowd work interaction. I had at the Laugh Factory, I
don't know if I ever told you this but it was like the Laugh
Factory and I thought this couple was on a date and they
looked at me like I was crazy and is like, no, dude, this is
my cousin like how can you thinkwe're on a date?
(37:58):
And I was like, what if she's your cousin?
And I just remember like the whole room life being like, what
are you like the other systems like this mix of like laughter
and discussed. And I would like, I would be
honest. A lot of people in my family are
each other's cousins and never look back you know there's just
like this. But then again, people in the
(38:23):
crowd who were like, oh yeah, I know you're talking about, and I
remember the first time I started talking about that.
It was, it was it almost felt like this, like 15-minute Town
Hall of someone being like that's gross.
No, no, I get it. Whoa, wait, what the science of
it? When it isn't messed up, we
shouldn't do it. And then someone be like, you
know, like it was just whole thing and that value really is
(38:45):
what the Wailing. Very another couple is married.
I got a letter from them. Really changed our lives and
give us The Bravery to do. What we what we didn't think
that, you know, that we want to do ya mad.
So that that's almost did it. I was didn't way when I went to
go, see you in Atlanta. I was like, that's really fun to
(39:07):
like, go to a different city andthen just get up there.
It's a great way to just be in acity and meet people and and
just see like, what are the sensibilities here?
Kind of different everywhere. Yeah, them.
Yeah. I've never really considered
how, how that's definitely part of The experience and adventure
of being up, there is doing comedy in Atlanta and and where
(39:28):
you're doing, it in Atlanta would be totally different from
doing it in Southern, California, or Jersey or New
York or wherever else her London, you know, it's like,
yeah, why? I just did stand up in London
and, you know, they're just, it's so clear, how funny they
find us and not in like not a good way.
Comedy in it right now, you guysare fucking funny.
(39:48):
You guys are really, you know, you got it right running around
with guns. No healthcare like it's like
you've you like steel that it's not even a judgment.
It's just like accuracy from a different point of view where
you like oh my God we are and that that's always really.
I think it's the same thing. You're talking about it, like
digging into a character, like Ifeel like the way you, I feel
(40:09):
like you get to know characters,so you can just get to know
people and get to know the human.
Why are we here in this condition?
And it's the same thing. It's like, oh yeah, getting to
do this. Get up, onstage, do all that.
It's like just to get to know people and you.
Just feel something different for a night.
Yeah. That's been something that feels
so, so fun to than figure out. I wanted this work on screen and
(40:32):
yeah man, I'm like something that I did feel with you when we
did and in terms of roles because it's like the question
that like, I'm like I'm waiting for rehearsal Ali, the director.
And when that's going to, yes, Ineed to know what's going to
happen. I know it's gonna happen.
What's going to pay that to happen because I felt it when we
were working on was like, yeah. This dude known everything
(40:54):
that's happening right now whichwas for me actually comforting.
Like, At first, I was like, all right, you made it not
intimidating because you were basically like, you know, I'm
still on your side and so like, hey, here's a suggestion, here's
whatever. Because I love this and I want
to be here. So I was just like, whoa, I have
this Instinct teammate, but I was kind of Blown Away by how
much you did see me of everything that was going on.
(41:17):
Yeah. Like, when that happened, I hope
sooner than later, you know, andI definitely, we spoke about
this. I definitely wanted to do that
on your show, but I've said a huge huge part of my comfort in.
Just Community. I'm pretty good about
communicating my ideas to whatever director I'm working
(41:38):
with. But it was, it was hugely
inspiring working with you because you made something that
is extraordinarily difficult appear to be like fairly easy
just in. How you how you carry yourself.
Elf how you make choices? How you feel relatively
confident and the choices that you're making and just how you
(42:00):
interact with your crew, incorporate your DP into the
idea, you might go at least at that time.
Check in with Chris store about something, you know, you you do
the way you kind of do the dance.
And yeah, I think it's clear that you're aware of how much
falls on your shoulders, but youdo a wonderful job of Bringing
(42:22):
people in sort of like the way in which you sort of operate
with the light Council, you know, but good again, you're
clearly the lead here and just the way in which you navigate,
and communicate just your ideas and it definitely left.
It impact on me and I'm still sort of Blown Away at as to,
(42:46):
like, how you, how you do it alland how you manage it.
All, you know, some of that is just who you are.
But but the way, In which you just handle yourself as a
director. I love how you don't appear to
over. Think there's a lot of trust
than in how you work and operate.
And for me, I think it was the first time where I felt in real
(43:08):
time that, you know, I want to direct.
I do I do I or I admitted it to myself a lot of that, a lot of
it had to do with just watching how you how you operated and did
things, you know. So so I think Anything I felt
free or just to communicate whenwe try like this.
And yeah, you really, you reallydo.
(43:28):
Welcome at least with me. I felt felt like my thoughts and
ideas were always heard and embraced and if they worked cool
and if it didn't work, it didn'twork.
You know, we try something else or you tell me why something may
not work and we just wouldn't doit, you know.
But a lot of that just had to dowith just being in proximity to
you and because I can be heavy at times and a little I get a
(43:51):
little bit anxious. About like wasting work
opportunity or moments or you know and you thinking just your
presence encouraged me to sort of relax a bit you know.
And so I just appreciate it as how you approached it.
All I hadn't even I mean so muchbetter place.
You made it. Yeah you again like made it
(44:12):
really even ejected like this whole new life into it and that
was part of being able to feel like so much ease and Faith to
because it was like straight up.Like yeah, we're going, you know
we're going with this miracle oflike, wow, we're all here and
we're all doing this and like who would have thought, you
know? So that that had so much of the
energy flowing through it and it's funny to even like
(44:33):
mentioning, you know, store we didn't have them on Tina 3
because he was doing the bear, which is awesome.
You know, the menu, you know, it's so good.
I've sanded, I've seen it and it's funny because I've been
talking with him that he's been telling me about it.
And we've been talking about that show for years.
And talking about kitchen culture, this made me real
quick, it just Made me think about like these dudes and food,
(44:55):
man, like, Rami and Chris and food, like, you.
I know, I know that was the thing where you were, like, you
do everything because we would everyday, like, organized, a
lunch order, it didn't matter, like what was going on, even if
there's like a rewritable, got my trailer sandwich, we've got
this. Like, we looked up the sandwich.
Like, that's like, like most of the shoot would be like, what
(45:16):
are the middle of Staten Island somewhere?
Like, find the sandwich? Not a know.
We would like hunt people. Down.
Well, they grab random people and be like what's the
restaurant. I don't know about, you know.
And like we don't like we have like a huge casting issue.
There's like a fire going on. We lost the location.
We're dealing with all that. But then we're like, State
emergency where we eating very important.
(45:37):
You know, like we're like researching, like we got like a
food map but, you know, I got toknow, not just Chris but his
sister Courtney and Mike and andI love, you know, so much of
what they portrayed. It's just like this whole like,
you know, yes, chef no chef but I remember talking to To someone
at a restaurant, they were like,the only correct answers are
yes, chef. No Chef or I don't know chef.
(45:57):
And I think like my favorite oneis, I don't know Chef because it
couldn't has this like assertiveness.
And I feel like even to talk about light Council and having a
light Council around or, you know, to me like the way that I
enjoy having teams and like we build teams and and the show is
such a team effort, it's like, I'm like, maybe, you know, you
(46:20):
know, I was watching this great offer.
Go on YouTube and like the conductor's like sweating and
doing all this and, like, whatever.
But like, you know, this one dude has this solo and it's so
amazing and you're like, yeah, that guy is the star of the
show, you know? It's the guy singing.
I mean, like the conductor's doing the thing, but the guy
singing and it's like, it's justthat visualization of it and
kind of watching how that can take place on the best sets feel
(46:43):
like that, you know, it's like, everyone gets that moment to
shine. Everyone knows one thing.
The other person doesn't know and so it's like, how do you
Leverage, The Knowing and not knowing into something.
That's, you know, that has Harmony as opposed to like
needing to feel like, you know, everything or needing to feel
like, you know, you're manhandling or controlling the
(47:03):
thing. And I think that's what I find
fun about it. It how do we kind of make that
happen and then we kind of keep learning and it keeps growing
and all that and that yeah, that's been the fun part of the
journey with it. And so I think like, you know,
yeah, I was just cool, man. It was cool like talking about
it afterwards and and kind of feeling like Shadow Wonder,
like, what? What Movie rehearsal is going to
(47:25):
pick the direct and I don't knowlike what Vive even had sat with
you and your mind of what you jump and do, but it definitely
like something that I'm looking forward to well.
Actually, what type of movie I want to act in that I'm hoping
you will write direct, tell me. But I feel like I should tell
you offline so that it can actually happen.
(47:45):
Yeah, tell me. I've changed my mind.
I'm not gonna do. Put it up.
I'm serious though. No, I'll come to Atlanta, I find
them. Coming again next month almost
serious. You know.
So I need to shake his cool. I'm down.
I'll pop back in, you know. But I want to do, oh my God.
I don't think I want to take this season for just, I just got
(48:07):
to get out of man. I'm up here.
Empires 4 Years, bro. Like I gotta finish these
vampires in Atlanta for a secondabout that.
I was like, I don't know what, what, you know his look for
blade is but you know, Want to do this for the season.
We want to be the last one. We'll just go to Atlanta and
just get the, the, you know, we need the final like rehearsal
(48:29):
and so, you know, we'll just, we'll go to Italy.
Oh, I'm if you dress, this bladewill figure it out like, I don't
know. You shall all.
I'm doing is things and all, bro.
Good thing is, I should have a beard, so I should be ready to
go, but you know what? You just need shaking.
He's a fight scene. That's all good.
I mean, I mean, I think everyonewants to see the shaykh rabee
fight scene. So I mean, that don't have to be
(48:50):
you men, he saved you, maybe. Saves you just you know start
whooping ass you know. So I'll probably I'm totally
down but but yeah man. So I do I do look forward to to
working with you again because it is truly sincerely, one of
the only great joys of my career, but just one of the
(49:11):
great joys of my life, you are really one of those people who
who does like impact people's lives.
A man like you really do and I've seen it so many people.
I'm sure there's a long line. People who would be like, yo,
Mami like really impacted my life, man.
And it's just, you wouldn't evenknow it's just what you do, you
know, but, but it's just a real blessing, you know, getting to
(49:36):
work with you and to share time and space with you.
And, you know, continue to just be in contact with you.
And, you know, I need more of it.
So, anyway, I'm just putting, you know, I, I can say the same.
Exact thing back without any hyperbole.
I mean it truly. Yeah, what you did to our show
(49:58):
and my life is like, never to benever forgotten and you know and
then we get to commemorate a little bit of it I guess on this
was podcast, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah man.
I love you man. Love you too, brother.
Thanks for listening. The 824 podcast is produced by
(50:20):
us a 24 special. Thanks to our editor Tom Wyatt
and robot repair who composed our theme Thanks for listening.
The 824 podcast is produced by us a 24 special.
Thanks to our editor Tom Wyatt and robot repair who composed
our theme
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