July 6, 2023 • 43 mins
Topics covered include: Nicole Holofcener’s genius, the vulnerability of writing a book, June brides, parenting adult children, Julia and J.’s mutual love of YHMF/Succession co-stars Jeannie Berlin and Arian Moayed, Gerri’s best moments that didn’t make the final cut of Succession S4, alternate endings, baby men, J.’s internalized bias against celebrities, not being able to log in to Uber, hyphenated last names, the potential for a Veep/Succession mashup, wanting to ride exquisite trains, learning Antonin Scalia was a Veep fan, keeping cherished pieces from Selina Meyer’s wardrobe, wishing she could re-do Elaine's signature hair, and slow-reading The Years of Lyndon B. Johnson.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:05):
Hey and welcome back to The 824 Podcast.
For today's episode, we're excited to share a conversation
between friends and acting legends Julia Louis Dreyfus and
Jay Smith Cameron. Julia is a star of our recent
Nicole Holofcenter comedy You Hurt My Feelings and the
upcoming 824 movie Tuesday. Jay just concluded her role as
Jerry on HBO6 session, and whileshe has no 824 credits to her
(00:27):
name yet, we hope to change thatsoon.
Enjoy a special cameo from Jay'shusband and former guest of the
Pod, Kenneth Lonergan, and make sure to catch you hurt my
feelings on demand. So now get to do our intro.
Hi, this is Julia Louis Dreyfus and I'm here with.
Jay Smith, Cameron and we are talking on the A 24 podcast.
(00:50):
We are about seemingly nothing. Just like Seinfeld, it's.
Just like Seinfeld. Hi, Jay.
Hi. Where are you?
I am in. We have a house in the Springs
in the Hamptons. Julia, I have to say, First off,
that I saw you hurt my feelings last night in a theater in the
(01:14):
Link. Kenny and I were looking forward
to watching it. And then we saw it was playing
in Sag Harbor, and it was. I don't know when I've seen a
movie in a theater that wasn't ascreening.
Like, I don't know what I've. The movie theater and bought a
ticket and got popcorn. You know what I mean?
Like, yes. It.
Was so great. What a great movie.
Thank you so much. Oh, I'm so touched that you went
(01:35):
to the theater. Oh, my God.
Well. Of course, that's a preferable
way to see anything. Right.
Yeah, totally. But you were so great.
Like you were so funny. But also you're you were so
moving. I thought you were just.
Great. Jay, that's that's high praise
coming from you. I'm very, very.
Complimented to say the least. Thank you so much.
(01:55):
I appreciate. It was so specific and real,
like paintly real and like. It was just.
Great. Well, you're married to a
writer, so you know the dynamic and you know Nicole, Hollis,
center, pitched me. Do you know Nicole?
I know of my friend Katie is an A close friend of hers.
That's it. I don't really know.
I don't think I've ever met her.OK, well first of all you need
(02:18):
to work with Nicole Hollis Center, because you are built
for her material. Oh yeah, totally.
I'm going to tell her we have this conversation as soon as
this podcast is finished. But she pitched before she'd
written it. She pitched me this idea of a
writer in a, you know, long, successful marriage whose
(02:40):
husband opinion she relies upon totally and completely.
And he's been so supportive of her work and loves her new book
and tells her over and over again, only for her to overhear
him saying to someone else that he really can't stand it.
And when she pitched me that, just that concept, I just my jaw
(03:00):
was on the ground because I think as a, I don't know, as an
artist it it really is gutting. The idea that somebody you trust
wholly and completely about their their opinion about your
work, that all of a sudden it's not to be trusted is really a
devastating yeah. Also, just how you know we might
(03:22):
have a tough have developed a tougher hide about critics or
colleagues or like you always know that there's a fine mix of
like. Appreciation, but possibly envy
from tears and all that stuff inthe mix, but there's one or two
people that you're just so utterly sensitive to what they
think. Yes.
You know, like there's just a few people that it's just like
(03:44):
it's hard for other people to relate to maybe of I don't know
if it is, you know, to to write a book.
I mean, not that I've written a book, but it's just such a
vulnerable thing of putting out all everything you thought in
your brain as if. It could hold someone's
attention for hundreds of pages.You know, it's it's a old kind
of brave thing and it's so hard.I mean, it's there's such a thin
(04:07):
skin at some level that it's it.That movie hit that.
Exactly. You know what I mean?
Yeah, it it really did. And the other thing too, I
think, is that it it it certainly explores people's
connection to their their work. And their self worth and that
dynamic and what that's all about, you know.
And who are we minus our work? How long have you and Kenny been
(04:30):
married? This month it will be 23 years.
Wow. OK.
Pretty long. Pretty long.
How about you? Guys.
This month it will be 36 years. That's really an achievement
because you're not that old. Yeah, I know.
And it's weird because I'm only 35.
So it is you married? Yes to you, Brian.
In in in you. Know.
(04:52):
Yeah. It's amazing how many marriages
are like that that we don't. Realize.
Yeah, I know. Hey, what?
What's your anniversary? The 26th.
Oh, or the 25th. How funny.
Oh my gosh. Well, Oh my goodness.
Happy anniversary in advance. And to you.
But I there were a lot of thingsalso parenting things in that
(05:13):
movie that made me tremble. Like I was like, Oh my God, I
really relate to that unfortunately.
And. Well, parenting adult children,
as it were adults in quotes, I'mgoing to say.
Yeah. Because.
But then they then they rememberall the supportive things you
said when they were coming up that you did mean, but you might
(05:37):
have a bias that you don't know of.
Right. Whatever.
It's just it's a no win thing. Yeah, the big take away is do
not have children. I think that's the big take
away. That's the theme of the film.
That's theme. And don't get married in the
first place. Don't get married and don't have
children. And don't try to be a novelist.
(05:59):
Yeah. Yeah, and stay.
Away from the arts. Stay away from the arts
altogether. You know, Aryan was so good in
the movie too, my buddy. And Jeannie was hilarious.
Hilarious. Through my my succession peeps.
Yes, Aryan played my brother-in-law, married to
Michaela Watkins. God, he was so funny.
Wasn't he? He's really.
(06:19):
Funny, and not like anything I've ever seen him in.
Yeah, very dear. Dear Vulnerable, insecure, and
he. Captured that thing that actors
have where they're really nice and smart and deep, but they're
kind of baby men, you know, completely tell him I said that,
But he got it, and he must have observed that himself, you know?
(06:42):
Yes, exactly. He's not like that.
No. Actually he's not.
He's a real stand up guy I must say.
I'll say, I'll say anyway. And so congratulations on your
finale. Thank you.
I wish there hadn't been a finale.
You. Wanted to keep doing it.
Yeah, because I can see where, why they, you know, why they
(07:03):
made that choice and how this succession story, I mean after
all is called succession and I could see how that was coming to
a rapid boil and they had to kind of.
Address that because how much longer could you have Kendall
switching sides and Roman switching, you know?
But in terms of the Succession universe, I feel like it was
(07:24):
just starting to be a good shot,like, you know, like in the way
of Veep like. The the sort of.
Social and political commentary and the, you know, satire.
I thought our whole globe right now is facing these like.
Oligarchs and totalitarian like the threat of totalitarianism
and that we're just I mean he created this world that's just
(07:47):
getting like that guy might get might become our president and
the fascist guy and they I don'tknow if you'd like to steer into
or away from political conversations but.
Well, I I'm all down for him. I know you are.
The It's funny doing a series, isn't it?
Because you're right by the timeyou're like in your. 3rd, 4th
(08:08):
season, I do feel as if you're starting to get your groove on,
yeah, and exactly. It's a very British thing to
sort of cut it off on the early side.
Yeah, yeah. It's very British.
It's our. Mutual friend Georgia Pritchett
was from the beginning. Like, no only three seasons.
And then she admitted, there might.
Be a fourth there was. No in in no way be a fifth
(08:30):
season, whereas Jesse himself was.
You know, vacillating, supposedly.
I I I have to say I thought thatthat fucking finale was pitch
perfect. I really do good it.
Was really an achievement, I think.
It was an achievement. That's a big thing to go for it.
Like it has to, has to somehow emotionally answer a lot of
questions but also top something, You know, it's like
(08:52):
the expectations are so high, right?
I mean, I was barely in it. So in that way.
I know, No, actually. And I if I were, honestly, I'm
not kidding you. I don't know if I should bring
it up or not. But if I were to critique it, I
would say you should have been given a moment because your
character is yeah. Well, I had some, but they just
(09:13):
didn't make the final cut like Ihad some.
They were remnants of, like we did versions did.
You must have done that on paper.
You did alts and stuff. Right.
You kidding me? Yeah.
Those shows were, you know, the rough cut would be like 58
minutes and we had to get it down to 293031, right?
So yeah, there was a lot of shiton the cutting room floor.
(09:35):
Well then let me ask you, what were those bits and bobs that
you got to do that were ultimately edited out?
Well, they were in all all the last, well, really the whole
season. But in the finale, I mean, I
felt like they I. Felt the squeeze of the other
stories being winnowed down, like pretty much mid season.
(09:57):
You know, just like for instancewhen we went to Norway, which is
back, and you asked me about thefinale.
Fair enough. But I but to go back up for a
minute, when we went to Norway, that episode was pitched to all
of us as a Hunger Games for the executives at Waystar that the
Swedes were going to see the survival of the fittest on the
staff and who to cut. And who to keep.
(10:20):
And they had all these, like, you know, out in nature, things
they had to do where everyone made an ass of themselves, you
know, But there was nothing of of Jerry proving herself.
And yet she made the cut. And I was like sort of pitched
to some of the writers, like, I feel like we should see, even if
it's just a moment we should seeJerry doing something that she's
(10:41):
crafty or driven or something that would make her valuable.
So there there was the scene in the sauna.
But you can kind of see us in the background.
But there was a scene in the sauna where all the Swedes had
challenged all the guys from Waystar to see who could last
longest in the sauna. And that was a hilarious scene
(11:02):
because Fisher and Patch and Brian were all, like, with
towels around their waist, sweating and, like, really
highly uncomfortable. And then you'd look across the
room and then all the Swedes were, like, sitting there with
their legs open. And like.
You know, completely enjoying themselves and and talking in
Swedish. Uh huh, That's a laugh.
(11:22):
And I say us, but I'm jumping the So what?
I pitched that Jerry should be in there.
Of course. Male event and I was like, I
think Jerry should show up for the sauna event.
So we did this whole scene whereI was in there, my glasses were
all fogged up and I was the one,you know, making them turn it up
and my my guys were like, what are you trying to do, trying to
kill us and. You know, shut.
(11:44):
Up and then we had this whole scene and then I really was the
last man standing, last man standing, and we just had all
these great improvs in it and atthe very end the guy plays
Oscar, this sort of right hand man of of Skarsgard's character
said got up to leave. He was like.
You make a good sound off. And I was like, and then as he
(12:06):
left, I just like Quitter. We had.
But the whole scene was good. I called him.
I said, hey, hey, it's getting alittle cool in here, isn't it?
Pure good. I just had all this fun with
him. And then the whole scene was
Scott. Oh yeah.
And there were just lots of things like that.
But there was a scene in the funeral scene where I actually
tried to comfort Roman after he fell apart when he's doing his
(12:29):
eulogy and then in the. Final episode.
There was a whole scene with me and Tom where he asks me if we
could talk about me coming back and I imply that it will cost
him a lot of money but that I'm very much interested.
We even did a take where he tookmy arm at the end and walked on
the Carter with me like a reference to the end of
(12:51):
Casablanca when Claude rains andyes, the start of a beautiful
friendship. Yes.
We even did that and then we dida shot, Just just a shot.
No dialogue from me when Greg and Tom are talking and you see
Jerry and that's in there. But we did one where I happen to
be looking at him too. So we kind of locked eyes, which
(13:13):
was just a little bit more dramatic than what they chose,
which was just me talking to someone else.
And so I feel like I when I shotit, I felt like I was kind of
really in the episode, even though it wasn't very much.
But then when I saw it was like.OK.
I guess you can kind of rememberJerry.
Yeah, I think that's a threat. Well, anyway, again I I say I
(13:33):
really do believe this show was fantastic, but I I think that
should have been. I'm not going to say resolve,
but Jerry should have been factored into this.
Particularly, I think the shot of you guys walking off would
have been fucking genius withoutany dialogue, you know, that
would have. Been.
Wanted to stay between heat between Tom and and Greg since
(13:54):
they are the other couple being shipped all the time on that
show, right, remember kind of I understand.
Hey, when did you guys wrap it? When did you actually wrap?
We wrapped principle photography, I suppose, in late
February. Or early?
I don't remember it was, but then they went to Barbados.
Uh huh. For that other scene.
Uh huh, Right? Other sequence, other sequence
(14:18):
wasn't in the first well. I can't remember.
There's so many versions of it. But anyway, I, you know, I need
to watch it again because I was kind of watching like this and
we were all together, Not all ofus, but a lot of us who lived in
New York watched together and there was a lot of it was kind
of half party and half screening, and I feel like I
need to watch it again. It's pretty great.
(14:38):
I got used to all the traveling we did.
We went to all these cool places.
What was your favorite? Place you went to.
Oh man, I don't know. I mean, I love Italy and we were
there the longest of any place we visited.
So how long? Because it was the finale?
A lot of people, not so much me,but a lot of people stayed on.
And Kenny had been in Italy, a different part of Italy, to be
(14:59):
a, I think a jurist on a film fest for a Film Festival.
And and then he stayed. On to kind of, right?
And then he would find out wherewe are and kind of blow into
town where we were and visit fora while and then go off alone
again. And we kept very glamorous away
because we kept connecting in different places all over Italy.
Oh yeah, that's very glam. I love it it.
(15:21):
Was kind of glamorous. Yeah, that's really nice.
I love that. Yes.
So I want a job that's got a perfect crew, a perfect cast.
Genius writers, where I'm well paid and where we travel all
over the globe. That's it.
That's it. Easy.
Peasy. There's nothing to it that'll
you can get that. You can get that lined up in the
(15:43):
next couple hours. Yeah, yeah.
I mean, as soon as the strike isover, baby.
Yeah. As soon as the strike is over,
both strikes, do you think we'reour union is going to strike?
I think so, yeah. Don't.
You. Yeah.
Yeah, gosh. Anyway, were you supposed to be?
Working right now or? I have another job that like a
(16:07):
guest of occurring role on something that I'm not supposed
to directly talk about because not been announced or I guess I
don't know how much but I've been told not to identify it but
and I had just started it and then the strike.
Happened, so I do that. Stuff like that.
(16:27):
Yeah, I. Don't have anything else.
I was supposed to be in Atlanta shooting a movie, all right for
months on end. And was this I ain't.
Is this another superhero movie?Yeah, baby.
Speaking of which, we went and saw for Father's Day talking
about going into theaters. We went to the theater and we
saw the Spiderman Spidey verse movie.
(16:50):
Yeah, it's a masterpiece. It's a masterpiece.
So. Take Kenny, get yourself some
popcorn again and go watch it, because it is like I I couldn't
believe. I honestly couldn't believe it.
So, and by the way, I hadn't seen the first Spidey verse one,
but I went anyway and it was, it's incredible to be in a
(17:13):
theater with people. Yeah, it's so nice.
People clap or yeah, laugh or whatever.
It's so nice. It's.
Great. Yeah, it's a real community
feeling. Been so long.
I know. Hey, Luke is here to say hello.
Hi, Julia. Hi Kenny, how are?
You. How are you?
I'm good. How's this podcast going?
(17:34):
It's hard, I guess. It's horrible.
I mean, Jay's like, she doesn't talk, so I've got to carry.
I've just got to carry all. The way I don't shut up.
You're both so closed mouthed. It must be very tall for your
listening I. Was just calling if we have to
go see this. Spidey verse.
Spidey verse. The new Spiderman Spidey verse
(17:55):
movie I'm I sound like an old woman because I'm not saying
what the title is correctly, butit is legitimately fantastic.
Spiderman movie. The second, yeah.
The. Second one.
The. Spiderman movie I Can Get
behind. Is it this this you can get
behind I think? You can hear it.
I'm really looking forward to it.
Is it a story of all growth and overcoming past traumas for
(18:17):
Spider Man? Yes, but it brings it to new
levels for reals. I'm glad to hear it, Spider Man.
Yeah, there's a tragic figure. Tragic, I know.
We think about them all the time.
Thoughts and prayers. Super girl with the teenage
problems. Well, I loved you in your movie,
(18:38):
and I loved the movie. Thank you.
You're, Jay mentioned. You're always great.
How is that? Thank you.
Was that how do? You.
Yeah, you're always great. Yeah.
Well, you got maybe not so not maybe that's really not the
case. But I appreciate the compliment.
But I thank you so much. We and wasn't Jeannie Berlin and
I know you know all these people.
(18:59):
Amazing, right? The wonder everyone.
The whole cast was really good. How did?
Can I just ask the actor who plays your husband whose name?
Of course I'm blanking on. Tobias Menzies.
What an interesting and good choice for the husband.
Was that Nicole? Yeah.
Yes, and actually that was a difficult role to cast because.
Of well, I I don't I can't get Idon't want to give away what
(19:21):
happens at the end of the film but this is you know a man who's
struggling with aging and what that means for him and and there
are a lot of men who wouldn't doit.
Oh really? Uh.
Huh. Isn't that fascinating?
Really. Because they're they're not
struggling or don't wish to be seen to be struggling or.
(19:41):
I suppose, yeah. We're all very vain, of course,
But I am. I am too.
But anyway, he, he, Tobias just embraced the whole thing, and he
did a great job and a Great American accent, I might point
out. Yeah.
Perfect. Yeah.
Anyway, I thought it was wonderful.
I thought you were really wonderful.
Seriously. Just.
Thank you. Oh, that's nice.
(20:03):
Just do. But once again and really good
character and thanks man, reallygood.
Thank you. Yeah.
All right. I'm going back to my life now.
But it was nice to say hi and. I'm glad you did.
Hi. Bye.
Bye. So what's so you're when the
strikes resolved, you'll go backto that movie, probably.
(20:23):
Yeah, I don't know when. To work in fool my friend just
one thing after another. Boom, boom.
You too. You too.
All we hope. We hope, yeah, I know.
We have to find a way to work together.
That's what we have to do. I would like that.
I would like that too. Yeah, a lot.
I think on this. Well, you're married to a very
(20:44):
amazing writer, man, and. When you kick, you would.
Think you would think he's got two women with capable actress
women and he can employ them andyet off he goes to do his thing
as he says, I don't even know what he's doing, but now he's on
my shit list because he's. Working on project.
(21:06):
You know, on something that includes you and I, So that's
exciting. That is exciting.
Hopefully we can actually and hopefully they'll be seeing if,
assuming this all that happens, the project he's working on.
I I want to you can pitch to himperhaps on your anniversary
night perhaps you can sort of you know leverage a few things
(21:28):
and you can pitch to him that weneed scenes together.
Do you know what? He said that when he I told him,
I remind him this morning that Iwas going to be talking to you
and he was like, I have to find a way to put X&Y together in
that in the show they get thingstogether.
Good. So all right, well, as soon as
you get pages, send them to me and I'll start memorizing.
(21:50):
Our notes. Yes, yeah, exactly.
I was thinking I was running around this morning doing some
errands and I was thinking I never really realized this.
But for many years in my career,or, you know, decades, I had
this sort of, like, bias. Or I don't know what it was
(22:11):
about celebrities like, I might admire Meryl Streep in a movie.
But. I would always be like a little
aware of like all the buildup she constantly had.
And I would always be like, well, what do I really think you
know and be like? And also just I clam up around
celebrities. If I went to a party that there
were big celebrities at, I wouldjust, it would look like I was
(22:33):
stubbing them if if they cared to notice.
But I you know. What I mean, but I do.
I'm. I'm.
Just shy and like both intimidated and also just wary,
just wary of it so much. And you are a mega celebrity
that I don't have that bias about at all.
If you're like a is this coming out right?
(22:53):
You're a mega celebrity, but youyou have this very human.
Relatable personality. And also your work is just very,
I don't know, you somehow have escaped that.
Whatever. That thing is, that neurotic
thing I have about that suspicion I have about
celebrity. Well, that's very, very nice.
It's so weird because I certainly don't think of myself
(23:15):
as a mega celebrity. You know what I mean?
I really don't. I'm not kidding.
I mean, I know. I know that some of my work.
I'm aware that some that a lot of my work, and particularly
Seinfeld of course, is very known.
But I don't know that that catapults me.
I don't consider myself that well, I suppose.
(23:37):
It's all relative. Maybe you're pure of heart and
so therefore you can't think of yourself that way.
You know what I mean? Well, yeah.
I mean, do you? I mean, you're very famous now.
You've had this succession experience.
Do you? Are you aware of how you're
perceived as being different? Yes, a little bit.
But I still think it's just the the people are just liking that
(24:01):
character. The character is very was sort
of a fan favorite kind of character, you know, I feel
like. Or like.
Oh, Jerry. Hi, Jerry.
Like, I don't feel like I have. I don't feel like people know my
name exactly. I know professional people
might. But do you know what I'm saying?
I do. I mean between Veep.
Well, really all your shows, butcertainly Seinfeld and and Veep
(24:22):
are like these iconic. I mean, there's such a body of
work just even in those two shows and not all this other
stuff you've done that's so good.
Are you on Instagram? Yeah, I've got to put you into
my thing. My phone, by the way, died the
other day, so I had to get a newphone and now I have to reboot
everything in this fucking thing.
(24:43):
And it's like, it's a nightmare.Actually.
It's such a drag. But I have a very young
assistant who's helping me do all of this thing.
Just have them go do the whole thing.
Yeah, I know. But things keep popping up.
You know? Like I wanted to order an Uber
and all of a sudden I have to log in and oh, anyway, whatever
again, I sound like I'm 85. What is Jay?
(25:06):
Does Jay stand for anything or is it just Jay?
No, it stands for Jean. I was named Jean Isabel Smith
and I was called Jeannie. Up until I went away to college
and then I decided that was too much like a little girl name,
which I think I would have outgrown that bias.
But I remember signing in for auditions at Florida State.
You know, like like you'd go andput your name on the list that
(25:26):
you would read and I just put J Smith and it was kind of like
putting John Doe up there. Something was so anonymous and
they called me in to read for. A guy.
Part. And they were like, whoa, you're
not a guy, you know? And then I eventually read that
it, inadvertently, I mean in a tiny babyish way, created this
kind of little. Mystique.
Yeah, I loved it. I loved this gender neutrally
(25:48):
kind of a name like J Smith. It was, I don't know, I loved
it. And then when I started joining
Unions, I couldn't be initial Smith because there were just
too many people I'd be confused with, which I guess is a thing
like your checks might go to thewrong person and stuff like
that. So for a while was J Cameron,
which is a family name. Both the women I'm named after,
both Gene and Isabel. Their last name was Cameron.
(26:10):
So I was J Cameron for a while. And then.
I'd made this indie movie when Iwas in college and it went to
the New York Film Festival, right?
It's getting ready to move to New York.
And I said to the, you know, it was a film that was printed.
So it wasn't like a digital thing they could change the
credits for. So I realized that the the film
is already, you know, but is there any way in the press
(26:33):
releases that you can help me out?
Because I kind of go by the nameCameron now and I've been sort
of, I imagine, a pain in the assfor this poor director the whole
time. Meeting to me.
And so anyway, the answer I got was he sent me the poster and it
said J Smith Dash Cameron. And it was right when I moved to
New York and I was trying to meet agents and stuff.
(26:53):
So I was like, yeah, yeah, that's me, J Smith Cameron.
And then I kept thinking I wouldchange it because it sounded so
pretentious to me, but then I got used to it and you know.
It didn't. It just sounded like me after a.
While so. So he inadvertently locked it in
for you. I mean, that's how I remember
it. Unless I.
Suggest sure you're right. I'm sure you're right.
(27:14):
Or another that he did, but I may have suggested the hype and
I don't know. I don't and so, but now as
somebody with a hyphenated name.Do you or do you not find it?
It is. Is it all the rage?
Well, for some time now, so you can't really say it's all the
rage. But I think at some point when
there were lots of people with like an overlap with names like
this, the unions got so full of people that they would have to
(27:37):
be like, use their middle name or a lot of hyphenated names in
our business now. Right.
Well, it's a pain in the ass. I think I mean I.
Isn't it because you're under, you're under.
I would imagine you're under S, you're under C, I'm under L, I'm
under D. Yeah, I'm underage because of my
married name. You know, all that shit.
It's pretty. Anyway, that's so fun.
(27:58):
Does anyone call you Gene? What's the story of your hyphen?
Oh, the story. My hyphen is that it was in
fact, my dad's last name, Louis Dreyfus.
His name was William Louis Dreyfus with the.
Hyphen. Yes, and that is our French.
Family's name? Where are you from?
Well, because my both my parentswere first generation American.
(28:21):
And I know a little bit about mydad's family, those
grandparents, but I know almost nothing about her parents.
They came on a boat through Ellis Island.
I don't know. I'm not even sure whether their
last name was Roma or Romano. The family now say it's Romano.
So I mean, I don't know much about them.
I know, I know that you know, sort of roughly where the
(28:42):
grandmother and the grandfather were from.
I'm in Italy. I don't really know how to find
them because I don't even know the spellings or and I don't
know what the year of their births or anything.
And then the other side is really kind of interesting.
Way before the Internet, my dad used to tell me that I had this
famous great uncle named Jon Stewart Blackey, who was a
classicist at the University of Edinburgh.
(29:04):
His side of the family is. Northern English and Scottish.
I see. That's the Cameron side of the
family, and John Stuart Blackey was this classicist who
translated the Iliad and the Odyssey.
And he was a famous, you know, Victorian like he was friends
with JM Barry the Peter Pan. Wow.
Stood up for him when he was under so much trouble, which is
(29:24):
a whole another story. But and he was this witty
professor that there were lots of anecdotes about.
And I remember only one that my dad told me.
And then years later when there was the Internet when I was an
adult, you know, like, yeah, I thought to look him up.
And I saw that same anecdote that I remembered and I was
like. Which was?
Oh, what's kind of It's kind of key story?
He was, I guess, apparently. It's something like this that he
(29:47):
was going to have to miss the beginning of his classes all day
for some university reason. And so he'd written on the
blackboard. Professor Blackie will meet his
classes at quarter past the hour, something like that.
And he came in late, as he'd said, and all the boys started
stickering only men in the university then.
And he looked back at the board and someone had erased the sea
(30:10):
so that it read Professor Blackie will meet his last.
And he chuckled with everyone. And then he walked over and
erased the L and started class. I love it.
I know, and so I want to know ifit's really true that I'm
related to him. It seems it doesn't seem like
something that my dad would makeup because he's very famous
there, you know, like his plaqueis in the cathedral.
(30:33):
We were just in Scotland, by theway.
We went there for a proper vacation and I'd only been there
when I was 18. Briefly and God, do I love that
country. Wow.
So beautiful. Oh, it's so beautiful.
In fact, our mutual friend Georgia has been saying to me
for years, you have to go to Scotland because she and
Catherine and the kids go there all the time.
(30:55):
Yeah, yeah, it's beautiful. Yeah, she hit.
She told me she loves Edinburgh and the thing that house I got
in the country, I think maybe Dothey?
I don't know, no. They they go to some spa resort
place somewhere in the country. But we went to the Highlands,
which is where Balmoral is and shit, oh Lord have mercy.
Is that the best? It's really beautiful there.
(31:15):
Yeah, I want to go. They have those beautiful old
trains like they have the train that they use that they modeled
the Hogwart Express from. That goes.
That's right. Engine train and it goes.
A sleeper? Yeah, I want.
To take that train, I really want to go on all those famous
trains, but they cost it. Like, I don't know about that
one, but I want to go on the Orient.
Express. Exactly.
But it's very expensive. They've read.
(31:37):
Haven't they redone it? They've completely rebooted it
or whatever. It's gotten a makeover and I
think it's an absolute fortune. As soon as we're done talking,
I'm going to look that up, because now I've got this in my
head. I I think that really sounds.
Remember how you know. Remember when when you start
acting and then, like you hear about somebody in the theater
world having gone on a famous cruise ship and doing monologues
(32:00):
from Shakespeare and they get the free.
Cruise. Ride like don't they need some
thespians to, like, do a scene from an old?
Yeah, maybe we get a free ride together.
We could get you and me and Kenny and Brad.
We could. We'll just we'll just.
Do a couple sketches or I don't know, right?
(32:22):
You need to write us something. Yeah, we could do a Veep
succession mashup. I actually, How about that?
Great idea. Anyway, let's do it anyway.
I'll play Selena, you'll play Jerry, and our paths will cross.
Yes. In Veep, am I right that you
never you never know what party correct?
That's amazing. That was a genius of Armando
(32:43):
Inucci never to identify party and it really as a result just.
I think it opened up a whole realm of possibilities, you
know. Why is that?
Because you can make fun of boththings in the news.
Yes, and everybody was invited to the party.
It wasn't a partisan show in that sense.
In fact, a great story I have isthat I was in DC for something.
(33:05):
And Supreme Court Justice Elena Kagan was at this event and she
came up to me and she said that she really loved Veep Was So
already my jaw is like, yeah, exactly.
And she said that she and Anton Scalia, yes, after every
episode. Then the following week, they
would get together, have lunch and talk about the episode and
(33:28):
laugh about the episode. And I thought, well, I think
we've done our job. Right.
Oh my God, I. Know it's so fun.
It's. I.
Know it's. So.
Fun. I know I love it.
I absolutely love. It Frank Rich who was.
Your producer and our producer in succession.
That's right. He said that you guys could not
(33:49):
stay out in front of the news cycle because things began to be
so topsy trivia in the news thatyou you couldn't think of
anything crazier than what was true.
And we had that I think in succession too.
Yes, strange, right by the. Time this This season aired.
There was already the Elon Musk Twitter stuff.
You know what I mean. But.
Yes, like they, like they'd already thought of the Elon
(34:10):
Muskie character trying to buy Waystar and then they, You know
what I mean? Like.
Yeah it was. It was, it was a cut.
We were constantly being. I mean we even had a whole anti
VAX storyline. That was the through line to I
think it was the last season or was the 2nd to last season, I
can't even remember. And that's when what?
Yeah, it was anti VAX. And then there was a measles
(34:32):
outbreak, and Jonah ends up infecting his stepfather, who
dies. Oh my.
God. Because he's an anti anex.
Yeah, Jona's an antimax. You know what?
One of the many things that drove me crazy about Veep in a
good way, was your wardrobe. Oh please, how?
(34:55):
Great. You looked in all your clothes.
So not just your wardrobe. But your your figure.
I mean, you just were like. Oh, thank you.
And what you'd wear every episode.
Well, I have to say the costume designer was a woman is a woman
named Kathleen Felix Hager. She now works on the show Hacks
(35:15):
and she's a stone cold genius. And it was so much fun to dress
like Selena. Just just get zipped into
things. Tight.
As possible you know well you. Unset Very, very, very uncovered
of what she's feeling, right? Correct.
(35:36):
Ling her Spanx and she's feeling.
Constricted. She can't relax.
Everything's tight. And yeah, it was really that.
Character so devoted to being a rock star.
You know, like. Also looking, you know, like.
It's a power move. It's a, it's a, it's a power
play. Although at the same time she
(35:57):
really hates it's she has a love, hate relationship with
being a woman and she because she sees that as being as a
liability, which of course it is.
And so she recognizes that. And also uses it to her
advantage if she needs to. So it's a you know, she's a
fucked up lady for sure. So fine, but the.
(36:20):
Clothes were great. I have some of them and I love
doing them. I do.
Yeah. Do you ever?
Wear them, though. No.
I just have them stuffed away. I've, I've, I've keep pieces of
my wardrobe. I've kept them.
Yeah, I do. I have them stuck in a closet
and I just hang on to them because I figure, you know, I
have all of my lane clothes fromSeinfeld believe.
(36:42):
It or not? I do.
I do. Those were great too.
Well, I'm not so sure I agree with that.
Well. Now they're very much like, yes,
eight, right, or the 90s. Yes, exactly.
They're kind of retro and I knowpeople kind of like that look,
but for me. You had a you had a Annie Hall
kind of. You had your own ID with your
(37:02):
with your clothes. It seems to me like you had the
effulgent hair and the sort of like the big the Blazers and the
you had a a sort of look that you created that really caught
on. Yeah, I guess so.
I guess. Yeah.
Big wall of hair. Oh, it's fantastic.
I'd like to redo it. To be honest, I I'd like to go
back and redo that hair. But it is what it is.
(37:23):
I can't. So I would.
It was too. It was ridiculous.
Yes, it was. Ridiculous.
It was a signature thing. It was great.
I disagree. I mean, I didn't have to have my
hair fixed all those years. But I have another little
anecdote for you, which is, I'm not going to tell it right,
though, because I don't know enough facts about it, but my
big sister moved to Chicago, lived there several years, did
theater in Chicago. And I believe it's there's some
(37:45):
story where she met you sort of because she was moving into her
an apartment that you had an apartment in and it may have
been you and Brad, but East Lake?
Terrace. It was on East Lake Terrace.
Probably I'll ask. But she she was moving in and
you guys stopped and asked her if she needed any help and then
we're very relieved when she said no, but like but she said
(38:10):
you were so nice that she had this.
Isn't that cool? You know, that is cool.
But let me ask you ask her if it's East Lake Terrace and I'll
tell you why. Because I wonder if she knows
about OK, I'm going to butcher this, but do you remember there
was a documentary about this female photographer in Chicago?
(38:31):
Vivian Meyer, yes. Vivian Meyer, Yes.
And. I think.
Vivian Meyer lived in our building.
How cool. And so you need to ask your
sister. OK, Would you do that?
I'll do my. You have my e-mail.
Yeah, Kenny. Kenny does.
Just because I I want to know ifshe has any memory of Vivian
seeing Vivian Meyer. Seeing her.
Do you remember seeing her as a older well?
(38:53):
I I don't know if I did or not. There was a very crazy old lady
who lived in our building. And I don't know.
It's possible, because I think she went a little nuts at the OR
very nuts at the end of her life, I believe.
I believe so. Ask your sister.
Yeah. OK, I remember when people were
kind of rediscovering her. Like, remember somebody found a
(39:16):
treasure trove. Right.
Flea market or something, right?And then he.
That's what the movie's about based on, right?
I think I saw the movie, but as those were coming to light, I
remember just noticing them on the Internet, I guess.
And being like I love her whole eye like she would.
Totally. Oh.
God, I just loved it. And how they she'd often put her
(39:38):
little reflection. Instead.
Of like, wasn't she a nanny or something?
Yes, she was a. Nanny Mary Poppins.
Like, not Julie Andrews and MaryPoppins.
But when you or do you remember the books, the drawings and the
books by PL. Travers of Mary Poppins?
Do you ever read those as a kid or read them to you?
No. I no, I didn't.
PL. Travers the illustrations.
(39:59):
I can't think who did the illustration.
But she's kind of plain, which makes her incredible egotism
about how she looks. She's very fastidious and very
about how she looks, but she's drawn to be very plain.
She's like a little stick figure.
Uh huh. I it's one of my favorite things
about the the books, actually, is that she's kind of plain but
very proud of the way she looks.And it it was evocative of that
(40:20):
to me, like the strange old Stink 80 who like went around
just imagining into other people's lives strangers, you
know, like taking photographs. Boy, those photographs are so.
Anything else? Yeah, there's something else.
I think I need to watch that documentary again.
I watched an amazing documentarylast night which I recommend
called Turn Every Page about Robert Caro and Robert Gottlieb
(40:42):
and their. Relationship.
Oh, you got to watch it. I can't believe Robert Gottlieb
just died. He just died.
Yeah, but it is such a window. Oh, you're going to love it.
And Kenny will love it. And it's just such a window
into. Their world and you can get it
on Apple TV. I just loved it.
(41:02):
Turn every page is the the name of it.
Well, I just a little bit that Iknow of Robert Carroll's OOV or
have we said it is he's so his research is staggering.
Like staggering. It's just like.
It's staggering. Page turning Thriller.
But it's a history book. Like you can't like so.
Great, right? I haven't read his his first
(41:25):
book, the The Power Broker, and it's very much featured in this,
that very much discussed in thisdocumentary because it landed
him. But I'm going to read it.
I'm. I'm reading this Abraham
Verghese book right now and as soon as I finish that, which
will be in another seven months because it's 800 pages.
I'm a really slow reader, but I'm going to read The Power
(41:45):
Broker. I can't wait actually looking
forward to that. Yes, I'm still reading.
Were we out of time? Oh yeah, I have a I have to talk
to to Tig Notaro in 15 minutes. Shoot.
Let's just getting started, man.I know.
So much to talk about. So much to talk about?
Well, we'll have to get togetherin in real life.
Not on a podcast, right? Yes, yeah.
(42:08):
But we were at the theater the same night.
Yes. Wasn't that great.
And then. They all were at the Tony's.
I don't think they won, but theywere the George's friend Katie,
the played that part, and then one of the other actresses, the
other actress. They were both nominated anyway.
That was a great show. I enjoyed that so much.
Yeah, we had a great time that night.
(42:29):
Yeah, I. Can't remember the name of it
right now. Either can I.
Oh, living. The cost of living?
Which is brilliant. Correct name for it.
Anyway, so. It's been lovely speaking with
you on the podcast and I look forward to continuing the
conversation off. The podcast that sounds great.
Julia, thanks for having me on and.
(42:52):
For you having me on. Oh.
And I'll see you soon, I hope. And we'll talk some more about
Robert Carroll, because I'm reading, still have been for
months and months the LBJ. Books.
Which is really like a lifetime anyway, right?
All right, well, keep reading. I'll keep reading.
And lots of love to you. You too.
(43:16):
Thanks for listening. The 824 podcast is produced by
us. 824. Special thanks to our editor Tom
Wyatt and Robot Repair who composed our theme.
Hey and welcome back to The 824 Podcast.
For today's episode, we're excited to share a conversation
between friends and acting legends Julia Louis Dreyfus and
Jay Smith Cameron. Julia is a star of our recent
Nicole Holofcenter comedy You Hurt My Feelings and the
upcoming 824 movie Tuesday. Jay just concluded her role as
Jerry on HBO6 session, and whileshe has no 824 credits to her
(00:27):
name yet, we hope to change thatsoon.
Enjoy a special cameo from Jay'shusband and former guest of the
Pod, Kenneth Lonergan, and make sure to catch you hurt my
feelings on demand. So now get to do our intro.
Hi, this is Julia Louis Dreyfus and I'm here with.
Jay Smith, Cameron and we are talking on the A 24 podcast.
(00:50):
We are about seemingly nothing. Just like Seinfeld, it's.
Just like Seinfeld. Hi, Jay.
Hi. Where are you?
I am in. We have a house in the Springs
in the Hamptons. Julia, I have to say, First off,
that I saw you hurt my feelings last night in a theater in the
(01:14):
Link. Kenny and I were looking forward
to watching it. And then we saw it was playing
in Sag Harbor, and it was. I don't know when I've seen a
movie in a theater that wasn't ascreening.
Like, I don't know what I've. The movie theater and bought a
ticket and got popcorn. You know what I mean?
Like, yes. It.
Was so great. What a great movie.
Thank you so much. Oh, I'm so touched that you went
(01:35):
to the theater. Oh, my God.
Well. Of course, that's a preferable
way to see anything. Right.
Yeah, totally. But you were so great.
Like you were so funny. But also you're you were so
moving. I thought you were just.
Great. Jay, that's that's high praise
coming from you. I'm very, very.
Complimented to say the least. Thank you so much.
(01:55):
I appreciate. It was so specific and real,
like paintly real and like. It was just.
Great. Well, you're married to a
writer, so you know the dynamic and you know Nicole, Hollis,
center, pitched me. Do you know Nicole?
I know of my friend Katie is an A close friend of hers.
That's it. I don't really know.
I don't think I've ever met her.OK, well first of all you need
(02:18):
to work with Nicole Hollis Center, because you are built
for her material. Oh yeah, totally.
I'm going to tell her we have this conversation as soon as
this podcast is finished. But she pitched before she'd
written it. She pitched me this idea of a
writer in a, you know, long, successful marriage whose
(02:40):
husband opinion she relies upon totally and completely.
And he's been so supportive of her work and loves her new book
and tells her over and over again, only for her to overhear
him saying to someone else that he really can't stand it.
And when she pitched me that, just that concept, I just my jaw
(03:00):
was on the ground because I think as a, I don't know, as an
artist it it really is gutting. The idea that somebody you trust
wholly and completely about their their opinion about your
work, that all of a sudden it's not to be trusted is really a
devastating yeah. Also, just how you know we might
(03:22):
have a tough have developed a tougher hide about critics or
colleagues or like you always know that there's a fine mix of
like. Appreciation, but possibly envy
from tears and all that stuff inthe mix, but there's one or two
people that you're just so utterly sensitive to what they
think. Yes.
You know, like there's just a few people that it's just like
(03:44):
it's hard for other people to relate to maybe of I don't know
if it is, you know, to to write a book.
I mean, not that I've written a book, but it's just such a
vulnerable thing of putting out all everything you thought in
your brain as if. It could hold someone's
attention for hundreds of pages.You know, it's it's a old kind
of brave thing and it's so hard.I mean, it's there's such a thin
(04:07):
skin at some level that it's it.That movie hit that.
Exactly. You know what I mean?
Yeah, it it really did. And the other thing too, I
think, is that it it it certainly explores people's
connection to their their work. And their self worth and that
dynamic and what that's all about, you know.
And who are we minus our work? How long have you and Kenny been
(04:30):
married? This month it will be 23 years.
Wow. OK.
Pretty long. Pretty long.
How about you? Guys.
This month it will be 36 years. That's really an achievement
because you're not that old. Yeah, I know.
And it's weird because I'm only 35.
So it is you married? Yes to you, Brian.
In in in you. Know.
(04:52):
Yeah. It's amazing how many marriages
are like that that we don't. Realize.
Yeah, I know. Hey, what?
What's your anniversary? The 26th.
Oh, or the 25th. How funny.
Oh my gosh. Well, Oh my goodness.
Happy anniversary in advance. And to you.
But I there were a lot of thingsalso parenting things in that
(05:13):
movie that made me tremble. Like I was like, Oh my God, I
really relate to that unfortunately.
And. Well, parenting adult children,
as it were adults in quotes, I'mgoing to say.
Yeah. Because.
But then they then they rememberall the supportive things you
said when they were coming up that you did mean, but you might
(05:37):
have a bias that you don't know of.
Right. Whatever.
It's just it's a no win thing. Yeah, the big take away is do
not have children. I think that's the big take
away. That's the theme of the film.
That's theme. And don't get married in the
first place. Don't get married and don't have
children. And don't try to be a novelist.
(05:59):
Yeah. Yeah, and stay.
Away from the arts. Stay away from the arts
altogether. You know, Aryan was so good in
the movie too, my buddy. And Jeannie was hilarious.
Hilarious. Through my my succession peeps.
Yes, Aryan played my brother-in-law, married to
Michaela Watkins. God, he was so funny.
Wasn't he? He's really.
(06:19):
Funny, and not like anything I've ever seen him in.
Yeah, very dear. Dear Vulnerable, insecure, and
he. Captured that thing that actors
have where they're really nice and smart and deep, but they're
kind of baby men, you know, completely tell him I said that,
But he got it, and he must have observed that himself, you know?
(06:42):
Yes, exactly. He's not like that.
No. Actually he's not.
He's a real stand up guy I must say.
I'll say, I'll say anyway. And so congratulations on your
finale. Thank you.
I wish there hadn't been a finale.
You. Wanted to keep doing it.
Yeah, because I can see where, why they, you know, why they
(07:03):
made that choice and how this succession story, I mean after
all is called succession and I could see how that was coming to
a rapid boil and they had to kind of.
Address that because how much longer could you have Kendall
switching sides and Roman switching, you know?
But in terms of the Succession universe, I feel like it was
(07:24):
just starting to be a good shot,like, you know, like in the way
of Veep like. The the sort of.
Social and political commentary and the, you know, satire.
I thought our whole globe right now is facing these like.
Oligarchs and totalitarian like the threat of totalitarianism
and that we're just I mean he created this world that's just
(07:47):
getting like that guy might get might become our president and
the fascist guy and they I don'tknow if you'd like to steer into
or away from political conversations but.
Well, I I'm all down for him. I know you are.
The It's funny doing a series, isn't it?
Because you're right by the timeyou're like in your. 3rd, 4th
(08:08):
season, I do feel as if you're starting to get your groove on,
yeah, and exactly. It's a very British thing to
sort of cut it off on the early side.
Yeah, yeah. It's very British.
It's our. Mutual friend Georgia Pritchett
was from the beginning. Like, no only three seasons.
And then she admitted, there might.
Be a fourth there was. No in in no way be a fifth
(08:30):
season, whereas Jesse himself was.
You know, vacillating, supposedly.
I I I have to say I thought thatthat fucking finale was pitch
perfect. I really do good it.
Was really an achievement, I think.
It was an achievement. That's a big thing to go for it.
Like it has to, has to somehow emotionally answer a lot of
questions but also top something, You know, it's like
(08:52):
the expectations are so high, right?
I mean, I was barely in it. So in that way.
I know, No, actually. And I if I were, honestly, I'm
not kidding you. I don't know if I should bring
it up or not. But if I were to critique it, I
would say you should have been given a moment because your
character is yeah. Well, I had some, but they just
(09:13):
didn't make the final cut like Ihad some.
They were remnants of, like we did versions did.
You must have done that on paper.
You did alts and stuff. Right.
You kidding me? Yeah.
Those shows were, you know, the rough cut would be like 58
minutes and we had to get it down to 293031, right?
So yeah, there was a lot of shiton the cutting room floor.
(09:35):
Well then let me ask you, what were those bits and bobs that
you got to do that were ultimately edited out?
Well, they were in all all the last, well, really the whole
season. But in the finale, I mean, I
felt like they I. Felt the squeeze of the other
stories being winnowed down, like pretty much mid season.
(09:57):
You know, just like for instancewhen we went to Norway, which is
back, and you asked me about thefinale.
Fair enough. But I but to go back up for a
minute, when we went to Norway, that episode was pitched to all
of us as a Hunger Games for the executives at Waystar that the
Swedes were going to see the survival of the fittest on the
staff and who to cut. And who to keep.
(10:20):
And they had all these, like, you know, out in nature, things
they had to do where everyone made an ass of themselves, you
know, But there was nothing of of Jerry proving herself.
And yet she made the cut. And I was like sort of pitched
to some of the writers, like, I feel like we should see, even if
it's just a moment we should seeJerry doing something that she's
(10:41):
crafty or driven or something that would make her valuable.
So there there was the scene in the sauna.
But you can kind of see us in the background.
But there was a scene in the sauna where all the Swedes had
challenged all the guys from Waystar to see who could last
longest in the sauna. And that was a hilarious scene
(11:02):
because Fisher and Patch and Brian were all, like, with
towels around their waist, sweating and, like, really
highly uncomfortable. And then you'd look across the
room and then all the Swedes were, like, sitting there with
their legs open. And like.
You know, completely enjoying themselves and and talking in
Swedish. Uh huh, That's a laugh.
(11:22):
And I say us, but I'm jumping the So what?
I pitched that Jerry should be in there.
Of course. Male event and I was like, I
think Jerry should show up for the sauna event.
So we did this whole scene whereI was in there, my glasses were
all fogged up and I was the one,you know, making them turn it up
and my my guys were like, what are you trying to do, trying to
kill us and. You know, shut.
(11:44):
Up and then we had this whole scene and then I really was the
last man standing, last man standing, and we just had all
these great improvs in it and atthe very end the guy plays
Oscar, this sort of right hand man of of Skarsgard's character
said got up to leave. He was like.
You make a good sound off. And I was like, and then as he
(12:06):
left, I just like Quitter. We had.
But the whole scene was good. I called him.
I said, hey, hey, it's getting alittle cool in here, isn't it?
Pure good. I just had all this fun with
him. And then the whole scene was
Scott. Oh yeah.
And there were just lots of things like that.
But there was a scene in the funeral scene where I actually
tried to comfort Roman after he fell apart when he's doing his
(12:29):
eulogy and then in the. Final episode.
There was a whole scene with me and Tom where he asks me if we
could talk about me coming back and I imply that it will cost
him a lot of money but that I'm very much interested.
We even did a take where he tookmy arm at the end and walked on
the Carter with me like a reference to the end of
(12:51):
Casablanca when Claude rains andyes, the start of a beautiful
friendship. Yes.
We even did that and then we dida shot, Just just a shot.
No dialogue from me when Greg and Tom are talking and you see
Jerry and that's in there. But we did one where I happen to
be looking at him too. So we kind of locked eyes, which
(13:13):
was just a little bit more dramatic than what they chose,
which was just me talking to someone else.
And so I feel like I when I shotit, I felt like I was kind of
really in the episode, even though it wasn't very much.
But then when I saw it was like.OK.
I guess you can kind of rememberJerry.
Yeah, I think that's a threat. Well, anyway, again I I say I
(13:33):
really do believe this show was fantastic, but I I think that
should have been. I'm not going to say resolve,
but Jerry should have been factored into this.
Particularly, I think the shot of you guys walking off would
have been fucking genius withoutany dialogue, you know, that
would have. Been.
Wanted to stay between heat between Tom and and Greg since
(13:54):
they are the other couple being shipped all the time on that
show, right, remember kind of I understand.
Hey, when did you guys wrap it? When did you actually wrap?
We wrapped principle photography, I suppose, in late
February. Or early?
I don't remember it was, but then they went to Barbados.
Uh huh. For that other scene.
Uh huh, Right? Other sequence, other sequence
(14:18):
wasn't in the first well. I can't remember.
There's so many versions of it. But anyway, I, you know, I need
to watch it again because I was kind of watching like this and
we were all together, Not all ofus, but a lot of us who lived in
New York watched together and there was a lot of it was kind
of half party and half screening, and I feel like I
need to watch it again. It's pretty great.
(14:38):
I got used to all the traveling we did.
We went to all these cool places.
What was your favorite? Place you went to.
Oh man, I don't know. I mean, I love Italy and we were
there the longest of any place we visited.
So how long? Because it was the finale?
A lot of people, not so much me,but a lot of people stayed on.
And Kenny had been in Italy, a different part of Italy, to be
(14:59):
a, I think a jurist on a film fest for a Film Festival.
And and then he stayed. On to kind of, right?
And then he would find out wherewe are and kind of blow into
town where we were and visit fora while and then go off alone
again. And we kept very glamorous away
because we kept connecting in different places all over Italy.
Oh yeah, that's very glam. I love it it.
(15:21):
Was kind of glamorous. Yeah, that's really nice.
I love that. Yes.
So I want a job that's got a perfect crew, a perfect cast.
Genius writers, where I'm well paid and where we travel all
over the globe. That's it.
That's it. Easy.
Peasy. There's nothing to it that'll
you can get that. You can get that lined up in the
(15:43):
next couple hours. Yeah, yeah.
I mean, as soon as the strike isover, baby.
Yeah. As soon as the strike is over,
both strikes, do you think we'reour union is going to strike?
I think so, yeah. Don't.
You. Yeah.
Yeah, gosh. Anyway, were you supposed to be?
Working right now or? I have another job that like a
(16:07):
guest of occurring role on something that I'm not supposed
to directly talk about because not been announced or I guess I
don't know how much but I've been told not to identify it but
and I had just started it and then the strike.
Happened, so I do that. Stuff like that.
(16:27):
Yeah, I. Don't have anything else.
I was supposed to be in Atlanta shooting a movie, all right for
months on end. And was this I ain't.
Is this another superhero movie?Yeah, baby.
Speaking of which, we went and saw for Father's Day talking
about going into theaters. We went to the theater and we
saw the Spiderman Spidey verse movie.
(16:50):
Yeah, it's a masterpiece. It's a masterpiece.
So. Take Kenny, get yourself some
popcorn again and go watch it, because it is like I I couldn't
believe. I honestly couldn't believe it.
So, and by the way, I hadn't seen the first Spidey verse one,
but I went anyway and it was, it's incredible to be in a
(17:13):
theater with people. Yeah, it's so nice.
People clap or yeah, laugh or whatever.
It's so nice. It's.
Great. Yeah, it's a real community
feeling. Been so long.
I know. Hey, Luke is here to say hello.
Hi, Julia. Hi Kenny, how are?
You. How are you?
I'm good. How's this podcast going?
(17:34):
It's hard, I guess. It's horrible.
I mean, Jay's like, she doesn't talk, so I've got to carry.
I've just got to carry all. The way I don't shut up.
You're both so closed mouthed. It must be very tall for your
listening I. Was just calling if we have to
go see this. Spidey verse.
Spidey verse. The new Spiderman Spidey verse
(17:55):
movie I'm I sound like an old woman because I'm not saying
what the title is correctly, butit is legitimately fantastic.
Spiderman movie. The second, yeah.
The. Second one.
The. Spiderman movie I Can Get
behind. Is it this this you can get
behind I think? You can hear it.
I'm really looking forward to it.
Is it a story of all growth and overcoming past traumas for
(18:17):
Spider Man? Yes, but it brings it to new
levels for reals. I'm glad to hear it, Spider Man.
Yeah, there's a tragic figure. Tragic, I know.
We think about them all the time.
Thoughts and prayers. Super girl with the teenage
problems. Well, I loved you in your movie,
(18:38):
and I loved the movie. Thank you.
You're, Jay mentioned. You're always great.
How is that? Thank you.
Was that how do? You.
Yeah, you're always great. Yeah.
Well, you got maybe not so not maybe that's really not the
case. But I appreciate the compliment.
But I thank you so much. We and wasn't Jeannie Berlin and
I know you know all these people.
(18:59):
Amazing, right? The wonder everyone.
The whole cast was really good. How did?
Can I just ask the actor who plays your husband whose name?
Of course I'm blanking on. Tobias Menzies.
What an interesting and good choice for the husband.
Was that Nicole? Yeah.
Yes, and actually that was a difficult role to cast because.
Of well, I I don't I can't get Idon't want to give away what
(19:21):
happens at the end of the film but this is you know a man who's
struggling with aging and what that means for him and and there
are a lot of men who wouldn't doit.
Oh really? Uh.
Huh. Isn't that fascinating?
Really. Because they're they're not
struggling or don't wish to be seen to be struggling or.
(19:41):
I suppose, yeah. We're all very vain, of course,
But I am. I am too.
But anyway, he, he, Tobias just embraced the whole thing, and he
did a great job and a Great American accent, I might point
out. Yeah.
Perfect. Yeah.
Anyway, I thought it was wonderful.
I thought you were really wonderful.
Seriously. Just.
Thank you. Oh, that's nice.
(20:03):
Just do. But once again and really good
character and thanks man, reallygood.
Thank you. Yeah.
All right. I'm going back to my life now.
But it was nice to say hi and. I'm glad you did.
Hi. Bye.
Bye. So what's so you're when the
strikes resolved, you'll go backto that movie, probably.
(20:23):
Yeah, I don't know when. To work in fool my friend just
one thing after another. Boom, boom.
You too. You too.
All we hope. We hope, yeah, I know.
We have to find a way to work together.
That's what we have to do. I would like that.
I would like that too. Yeah, a lot.
I think on this. Well, you're married to a very
(20:44):
amazing writer, man, and. When you kick, you would.
Think you would think he's got two women with capable actress
women and he can employ them andyet off he goes to do his thing
as he says, I don't even know what he's doing, but now he's on
my shit list because he's. Working on project.
(21:06):
You know, on something that includes you and I, So that's
exciting. That is exciting.
Hopefully we can actually and hopefully they'll be seeing if,
assuming this all that happens, the project he's working on.
I I want to you can pitch to himperhaps on your anniversary
night perhaps you can sort of you know leverage a few things
(21:28):
and you can pitch to him that weneed scenes together.
Do you know what? He said that when he I told him,
I remind him this morning that Iwas going to be talking to you
and he was like, I have to find a way to put X&Y together in
that in the show they get thingstogether.
Good. So all right, well, as soon as
you get pages, send them to me and I'll start memorizing.
(21:50):
Our notes. Yes, yeah, exactly.
I was thinking I was running around this morning doing some
errands and I was thinking I never really realized this.
But for many years in my career,or, you know, decades, I had
this sort of, like, bias. Or I don't know what it was
(22:11):
about celebrities like, I might admire Meryl Streep in a movie.
But. I would always be like a little
aware of like all the buildup she constantly had.
And I would always be like, well, what do I really think you
know and be like? And also just I clam up around
celebrities. If I went to a party that there
were big celebrities at, I wouldjust, it would look like I was
(22:33):
stubbing them if if they cared to notice.
But I you know. What I mean, but I do.
I'm. I'm.
Just shy and like both intimidated and also just wary,
just wary of it so much. And you are a mega celebrity
that I don't have that bias about at all.
If you're like a is this coming out right?
(22:53):
You're a mega celebrity, but youyou have this very human.
Relatable personality. And also your work is just very,
I don't know, you somehow have escaped that.
Whatever. That thing is, that neurotic
thing I have about that suspicion I have about
celebrity. Well, that's very, very nice.
It's so weird because I certainly don't think of myself
(23:15):
as a mega celebrity. You know what I mean?
I really don't. I'm not kidding.
I mean, I know. I know that some of my work.
I'm aware that some that a lot of my work, and particularly
Seinfeld of course, is very known.
But I don't know that that catapults me.
I don't consider myself that well, I suppose.
(23:37):
It's all relative. Maybe you're pure of heart and
so therefore you can't think of yourself that way.
You know what I mean? Well, yeah.
I mean, do you? I mean, you're very famous now.
You've had this succession experience.
Do you? Are you aware of how you're
perceived as being different? Yes, a little bit.
But I still think it's just the the people are just liking that
(24:01):
character. The character is very was sort
of a fan favorite kind of character, you know, I feel
like. Or like.
Oh, Jerry. Hi, Jerry.
Like, I don't feel like I have. I don't feel like people know my
name exactly. I know professional people
might. But do you know what I'm saying?
I do. I mean between Veep.
Well, really all your shows, butcertainly Seinfeld and and Veep
(24:22):
are like these iconic. I mean, there's such a body of
work just even in those two shows and not all this other
stuff you've done that's so good.
Are you on Instagram? Yeah, I've got to put you into
my thing. My phone, by the way, died the
other day, so I had to get a newphone and now I have to reboot
everything in this fucking thing.
(24:43):
And it's like, it's a nightmare.Actually.
It's such a drag. But I have a very young
assistant who's helping me do all of this thing.
Just have them go do the whole thing.
Yeah, I know. But things keep popping up.
You know? Like I wanted to order an Uber
and all of a sudden I have to log in and oh, anyway, whatever
again, I sound like I'm 85. What is Jay?
(25:06):
Does Jay stand for anything or is it just Jay?
No, it stands for Jean. I was named Jean Isabel Smith
and I was called Jeannie. Up until I went away to college
and then I decided that was too much like a little girl name,
which I think I would have outgrown that bias.
But I remember signing in for auditions at Florida State.
You know, like like you'd go andput your name on the list that
(25:26):
you would read and I just put J Smith and it was kind of like
putting John Doe up there. Something was so anonymous and
they called me in to read for. A guy.
Part. And they were like, whoa, you're
not a guy, you know? And then I eventually read that
it, inadvertently, I mean in a tiny babyish way, created this
kind of little. Mystique.
Yeah, I loved it. I loved this gender neutrally
(25:48):
kind of a name like J Smith. It was, I don't know, I loved
it. And then when I started joining
Unions, I couldn't be initial Smith because there were just
too many people I'd be confused with, which I guess is a thing
like your checks might go to thewrong person and stuff like
that. So for a while was J Cameron,
which is a family name. Both the women I'm named after,
both Gene and Isabel. Their last name was Cameron.
(26:10):
So I was J Cameron for a while. And then.
I'd made this indie movie when Iwas in college and it went to
the New York Film Festival, right?
It's getting ready to move to New York.
And I said to the, you know, it was a film that was printed.
So it wasn't like a digital thing they could change the
credits for. So I realized that the the film
is already, you know, but is there any way in the press
(26:33):
releases that you can help me out?
Because I kind of go by the nameCameron now and I've been sort
of, I imagine, a pain in the assfor this poor director the whole
time. Meeting to me.
And so anyway, the answer I got was he sent me the poster and it
said J Smith Dash Cameron. And it was right when I moved to
New York and I was trying to meet agents and stuff.
(26:53):
So I was like, yeah, yeah, that's me, J Smith Cameron.
And then I kept thinking I wouldchange it because it sounded so
pretentious to me, but then I got used to it and you know.
It didn't. It just sounded like me after a.
While so. So he inadvertently locked it in
for you. I mean, that's how I remember
it. Unless I.
Suggest sure you're right. I'm sure you're right.
(27:14):
Or another that he did, but I may have suggested the hype and
I don't know. I don't and so, but now as
somebody with a hyphenated name.Do you or do you not find it?
It is. Is it all the rage?
Well, for some time now, so you can't really say it's all the
rage. But I think at some point when
there were lots of people with like an overlap with names like
this, the unions got so full of people that they would have to
(27:37):
be like, use their middle name or a lot of hyphenated names in
our business now. Right.
Well, it's a pain in the ass. I think I mean I.
Isn't it because you're under, you're under.
I would imagine you're under S, you're under C, I'm under L, I'm
under D. Yeah, I'm underage because of my
married name. You know, all that shit.
It's pretty. Anyway, that's so fun.
(27:58):
Does anyone call you Gene? What's the story of your hyphen?
Oh, the story. My hyphen is that it was in
fact, my dad's last name, Louis Dreyfus.
His name was William Louis Dreyfus with the.
Hyphen. Yes, and that is our French.
Family's name? Where are you from?
Well, because my both my parentswere first generation American.
(28:21):
And I know a little bit about mydad's family, those
grandparents, but I know almost nothing about her parents.
They came on a boat through Ellis Island.
I don't know. I'm not even sure whether their
last name was Roma or Romano. The family now say it's Romano.
So I mean, I don't know much about them.
I know, I know that you know, sort of roughly where the
(28:42):
grandmother and the grandfather were from.
I'm in Italy. I don't really know how to find
them because I don't even know the spellings or and I don't
know what the year of their births or anything.
And then the other side is really kind of interesting.
Way before the Internet, my dad used to tell me that I had this
famous great uncle named Jon Stewart Blackey, who was a
classicist at the University of Edinburgh.
(29:04):
His side of the family is. Northern English and Scottish.
I see. That's the Cameron side of the
family, and John Stuart Blackey was this classicist who
translated the Iliad and the Odyssey.
And he was a famous, you know, Victorian like he was friends
with JM Barry the Peter Pan. Wow.
Stood up for him when he was under so much trouble, which is
(29:24):
a whole another story. But and he was this witty
professor that there were lots of anecdotes about.
And I remember only one that my dad told me.
And then years later when there was the Internet when I was an
adult, you know, like, yeah, I thought to look him up.
And I saw that same anecdote that I remembered and I was
like. Which was?
Oh, what's kind of It's kind of key story?
He was, I guess, apparently. It's something like this that he
(29:47):
was going to have to miss the beginning of his classes all day
for some university reason. And so he'd written on the
blackboard. Professor Blackie will meet his
classes at quarter past the hour, something like that.
And he came in late, as he'd said, and all the boys started
stickering only men in the university then.
And he looked back at the board and someone had erased the sea
(30:10):
so that it read Professor Blackie will meet his last.
And he chuckled with everyone. And then he walked over and
erased the L and started class. I love it.
I know, and so I want to know ifit's really true that I'm
related to him. It seems it doesn't seem like
something that my dad would makeup because he's very famous
there, you know, like his plaqueis in the cathedral.
(30:33):
We were just in Scotland, by theway.
We went there for a proper vacation and I'd only been there
when I was 18. Briefly and God, do I love that
country. Wow.
So beautiful. Oh, it's so beautiful.
In fact, our mutual friend Georgia has been saying to me
for years, you have to go to Scotland because she and
Catherine and the kids go there all the time.
(30:55):
Yeah, yeah, it's beautiful. Yeah, she hit.
She told me she loves Edinburgh and the thing that house I got
in the country, I think maybe Dothey?
I don't know, no. They they go to some spa resort
place somewhere in the country. But we went to the Highlands,
which is where Balmoral is and shit, oh Lord have mercy.
Is that the best? It's really beautiful there.
(31:15):
Yeah, I want to go. They have those beautiful old
trains like they have the train that they use that they modeled
the Hogwart Express from. That goes.
That's right. Engine train and it goes.
A sleeper? Yeah, I want.
To take that train, I really want to go on all those famous
trains, but they cost it. Like, I don't know about that
one, but I want to go on the Orient.
Express. Exactly.
But it's very expensive. They've read.
(31:37):
Haven't they redone it? They've completely rebooted it
or whatever. It's gotten a makeover and I
think it's an absolute fortune. As soon as we're done talking,
I'm going to look that up, because now I've got this in my
head. I I think that really sounds.
Remember how you know. Remember when when you start
acting and then, like you hear about somebody in the theater
world having gone on a famous cruise ship and doing monologues
(32:00):
from Shakespeare and they get the free.
Cruise. Ride like don't they need some
thespians to, like, do a scene from an old?
Yeah, maybe we get a free ride together.
We could get you and me and Kenny and Brad.
We could. We'll just we'll just.
Do a couple sketches or I don't know, right?
(32:22):
You need to write us something. Yeah, we could do a Veep
succession mashup. I actually, How about that?
Great idea. Anyway, let's do it anyway.
I'll play Selena, you'll play Jerry, and our paths will cross.
Yes. In Veep, am I right that you
never you never know what party correct?
That's amazing. That was a genius of Armando
(32:43):
Inucci never to identify party and it really as a result just.
I think it opened up a whole realm of possibilities, you
know. Why is that?
Because you can make fun of boththings in the news.
Yes, and everybody was invited to the party.
It wasn't a partisan show in that sense.
In fact, a great story I have isthat I was in DC for something.
(33:05):
And Supreme Court Justice Elena Kagan was at this event and she
came up to me and she said that she really loved Veep Was So
already my jaw is like, yeah, exactly.
And she said that she and Anton Scalia, yes, after every
episode. Then the following week, they
would get together, have lunch and talk about the episode and
(33:28):
laugh about the episode. And I thought, well, I think
we've done our job. Right.
Oh my God, I. Know it's so fun.
It's. I.
Know it's. So.
Fun. I know I love it.
I absolutely love. It Frank Rich who was.
Your producer and our producer in succession.
That's right. He said that you guys could not
(33:49):
stay out in front of the news cycle because things began to be
so topsy trivia in the news thatyou you couldn't think of
anything crazier than what was true.
And we had that I think in succession too.
Yes, strange, right by the. Time this This season aired.
There was already the Elon Musk Twitter stuff.
You know what I mean. But.
Yes, like they, like they'd already thought of the Elon
(34:10):
Muskie character trying to buy Waystar and then they, You know
what I mean? Like.
Yeah it was. It was, it was a cut.
We were constantly being. I mean we even had a whole anti
VAX storyline. That was the through line to I
think it was the last season or was the 2nd to last season, I
can't even remember. And that's when what?
Yeah, it was anti VAX. And then there was a measles
(34:32):
outbreak, and Jonah ends up infecting his stepfather, who
dies. Oh my.
God. Because he's an anti anex.
Yeah, Jona's an antimax. You know what?
One of the many things that drove me crazy about Veep in a
good way, was your wardrobe. Oh please, how?
(34:55):
Great. You looked in all your clothes.
So not just your wardrobe. But your your figure.
I mean, you just were like. Oh, thank you.
And what you'd wear every episode.
Well, I have to say the costume designer was a woman is a woman
named Kathleen Felix Hager. She now works on the show Hacks
(35:15):
and she's a stone cold genius. And it was so much fun to dress
like Selena. Just just get zipped into
things. Tight.
As possible you know well you. Unset Very, very, very uncovered
of what she's feeling, right? Correct.
(35:36):
Ling her Spanx and she's feeling.
Constricted. She can't relax.
Everything's tight. And yeah, it was really that.
Character so devoted to being a rock star.
You know, like. Also looking, you know, like.
It's a power move. It's a, it's a, it's a power
play. Although at the same time she
(35:57):
really hates it's she has a love, hate relationship with
being a woman and she because she sees that as being as a
liability, which of course it is.
And so she recognizes that. And also uses it to her
advantage if she needs to. So it's a you know, she's a
fucked up lady for sure. So fine, but the.
(36:20):
Clothes were great. I have some of them and I love
doing them. I do.
Yeah. Do you ever?
Wear them, though. No.
I just have them stuffed away. I've, I've, I've keep pieces of
my wardrobe. I've kept them.
Yeah, I do. I have them stuck in a closet
and I just hang on to them because I figure, you know, I
have all of my lane clothes fromSeinfeld believe.
(36:42):
It or not? I do.
I do. Those were great too.
Well, I'm not so sure I agree with that.
Well. Now they're very much like, yes,
eight, right, or the 90s. Yes, exactly.
They're kind of retro and I knowpeople kind of like that look,
but for me. You had a you had a Annie Hall
kind of. You had your own ID with your
(37:02):
with your clothes. It seems to me like you had the
effulgent hair and the sort of like the big the Blazers and the
you had a a sort of look that you created that really caught
on. Yeah, I guess so.
I guess. Yeah.
Big wall of hair. Oh, it's fantastic.
I'd like to redo it. To be honest, I I'd like to go
back and redo that hair. But it is what it is.
(37:23):
I can't. So I would.
It was too. It was ridiculous.
Yes, it was. Ridiculous.
It was a signature thing. It was great.
I disagree. I mean, I didn't have to have my
hair fixed all those years. But I have another little
anecdote for you, which is, I'm not going to tell it right,
though, because I don't know enough facts about it, but my
big sister moved to Chicago, lived there several years, did
theater in Chicago. And I believe it's there's some
(37:45):
story where she met you sort of because she was moving into her
an apartment that you had an apartment in and it may have
been you and Brad, but East Lake?
Terrace. It was on East Lake Terrace.
Probably I'll ask. But she she was moving in and
you guys stopped and asked her if she needed any help and then
we're very relieved when she said no, but like but she said
(38:10):
you were so nice that she had this.
Isn't that cool? You know, that is cool.
But let me ask you ask her if it's East Lake Terrace and I'll
tell you why. Because I wonder if she knows
about OK, I'm going to butcher this, but do you remember there
was a documentary about this female photographer in Chicago?
(38:31):
Vivian Meyer, yes. Vivian Meyer, Yes.
And. I think.
Vivian Meyer lived in our building.
How cool. And so you need to ask your
sister. OK, Would you do that?
I'll do my. You have my e-mail.
Yeah, Kenny. Kenny does.
Just because I I want to know ifshe has any memory of Vivian
seeing Vivian Meyer. Seeing her.
Do you remember seeing her as a older well?
(38:53):
I I don't know if I did or not. There was a very crazy old lady
who lived in our building. And I don't know.
It's possible, because I think she went a little nuts at the OR
very nuts at the end of her life, I believe.
I believe so. Ask your sister.
Yeah. OK, I remember when people were
kind of rediscovering her. Like, remember somebody found a
(39:16):
treasure trove. Right.
Flea market or something, right?And then he.
That's what the movie's about based on, right?
I think I saw the movie, but as those were coming to light, I
remember just noticing them on the Internet, I guess.
And being like I love her whole eye like she would.
Totally. Oh.
God, I just loved it. And how they she'd often put her
(39:38):
little reflection. Instead.
Of like, wasn't she a nanny or something?
Yes, she was a. Nanny Mary Poppins.
Like, not Julie Andrews and MaryPoppins.
But when you or do you remember the books, the drawings and the
books by PL. Travers of Mary Poppins?
Do you ever read those as a kid or read them to you?
No. I no, I didn't.
PL. Travers the illustrations.
(39:59):
I can't think who did the illustration.
But she's kind of plain, which makes her incredible egotism
about how she looks. She's very fastidious and very
about how she looks, but she's drawn to be very plain.
She's like a little stick figure.
Uh huh. I it's one of my favorite things
about the the books, actually, is that she's kind of plain but
very proud of the way she looks.And it it was evocative of that
(40:20):
to me, like the strange old Stink 80 who like went around
just imagining into other people's lives strangers, you
know, like taking photographs. Boy, those photographs are so.
Anything else? Yeah, there's something else.
I think I need to watch that documentary again.
I watched an amazing documentarylast night which I recommend
called Turn Every Page about Robert Caro and Robert Gottlieb
(40:42):
and their. Relationship.
Oh, you got to watch it. I can't believe Robert Gottlieb
just died. He just died.
Yeah, but it is such a window. Oh, you're going to love it.
And Kenny will love it. And it's just such a window
into. Their world and you can get it
on Apple TV. I just loved it.
(41:02):
Turn every page is the the name of it.
Well, I just a little bit that Iknow of Robert Carroll's OOV or
have we said it is he's so his research is staggering.
Like staggering. It's just like.
It's staggering. Page turning Thriller.
But it's a history book. Like you can't like so.
Great, right? I haven't read his his first
(41:25):
book, the The Power Broker, and it's very much featured in this,
that very much discussed in thisdocumentary because it landed
him. But I'm going to read it.
I'm. I'm reading this Abraham
Verghese book right now and as soon as I finish that, which
will be in another seven months because it's 800 pages.
I'm a really slow reader, but I'm going to read The Power
(41:45):
Broker. I can't wait actually looking
forward to that. Yes, I'm still reading.
Were we out of time? Oh yeah, I have a I have to talk
to to Tig Notaro in 15 minutes. Shoot.
Let's just getting started, man.I know.
So much to talk about. So much to talk about?
Well, we'll have to get togetherin in real life.
Not on a podcast, right? Yes, yeah.
(42:08):
But we were at the theater the same night.
Yes. Wasn't that great.
And then. They all were at the Tony's.
I don't think they won, but theywere the George's friend Katie,
the played that part, and then one of the other actresses, the
other actress. They were both nominated anyway.
That was a great show. I enjoyed that so much.
Yeah, we had a great time that night.
(42:29):
Yeah, I. Can't remember the name of it
right now. Either can I.
Oh, living. The cost of living?
Which is brilliant. Correct name for it.
Anyway, so. It's been lovely speaking with
you on the podcast and I look forward to continuing the
conversation off. The podcast that sounds great.
Julia, thanks for having me on and.
(42:52):
For you having me on. Oh.
And I'll see you soon, I hope. And we'll talk some more about
Robert Carroll, because I'm reading, still have been for
months and months the LBJ. Books.
Which is really like a lifetime anyway, right?
All right, well, keep reading. I'll keep reading.
And lots of love to you. You too.
(43:16):
Thanks for listening. The 824 podcast is produced by
us. 824. Special thanks to our editor Tom
Wyatt and Robot Repair who composed our theme.
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