James Monroe Iglehart & Tonya Lewis Lee Talk A Wonderful World: & Untold Stories Of Louis Armstrong
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Well, what's up.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
It's way up with Angela Yee and I have two
people here that have three names.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
All right, Tanya lewis Lee and James.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Monroe I Gohart. Thank you guys both for joining me today, Thank.
Speaker 3 (00:13):
You for having pleasure, Thank you glad to be here.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
And I want to say, like I am just blown away.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
I went to go see the play that You're in
a Wonderful World, the story about Louis Armstrong.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
I always call him Louis Armstrong.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
You know either one, but I mean absolutely incredible just
seeing you sitting here. James Monroe, I Golhart, you killed
that role, that voice you have to do, because that
couldn't be easy.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
No, but it's it's a lot of fun to be
able to step into that man's shoes and his life
miss nothing but like a wonderful history lesson for me
every day. But it's also that moment of like giving
honor back to a person who without him, I would
not be able to do what I do. I'm standing
on his shoulder, so it feels good to be able
to do it every night.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
And Tanya lewis Lee, you are a co producer exactly
of this play. Me how you ended up getting involved
and you know, I am maya work so much from
aftershak thank you, and just the meaning that goes behind
everything that it is that you decide to be involved with.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
I already know is going to be quality work.
Speaker 4 (01:12):
I appreciate that. I really appreciate that. Angela and I
have to say, you know the same thing with the show,
right Like people have asked me to produce Broadway in
the past. I know it's a hard business, so I've
always said no. But when I got exposed to the show,
I saw first of all what it was about, how
entertaining it is. I learned a lot about Lewis Armstrong.
(01:35):
It's a story about a black man in our world
and his journey, and I think it has real impact
and its history and it's entertaining. But I came on
too it because of Vanessa Williams and her partner Liz Curtis.
They invited me to a showcase one night. I got
to see James and the four amazing women who were
(01:57):
in the show.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
Everybody in that show, but yes, all your wives were amazing.
I was like, I don't know who because they all
had a different sound to them, but they all like
blew me Away exactly with how they sing and their
presence and their story and just so relatable.
Speaker 4 (02:14):
They are and they're amazing. And then I knew Branford
Marsalis had come on to do the orchestrations. Uh, we
have Ricky Tripp.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
And do it, DeWitt Fleming Junior as our Ricky Tripp
as our choreographer, and Dwitt Fleming Junior is our tap choreographer.
And also with Branford Marcellus, we have Daryl Waters, who
is one of the greatest Broadway legends around. There isn't
a show around that doesn't have Darryl Waters a part
of it. And Darryl and Branford together made our music
sound so authentic and so cool.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
It was phenomenal.
Speaker 4 (02:44):
And a brother by the name of Orange Squire wrote
the script. Yes, okay and so, and then James co
directs the show with Christina sej and Chris Renshaw.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
I mean Tony Award winning James and more that one, Okay,
I just wanted co directing as well the show that
he we threw that in there.
Speaker 4 (03:04):
It's an amazing creative team behind the scenes as well
as on the stage.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
So how could I say, no, see, I told you
once I knew she was like, I know that there's
so many things you could do exactly, but Broadway, you said,
is difficult.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
So can you talk about why?
Speaker 2 (03:20):
Because you know, we don't know the ins and outs
of what goes on behind the scenes. And I try
to go and support like as much as I can,
because one thing I always say this when I go
to Broadway plays, I don't see enough of us, you know,
going to see those plays and I'll go see Jaja's
African hair braiding. I went to go see for Colored Girls.
She's amazing, fantastic everything that I can. Obviously, the Lion King,
(03:42):
I saw that a couple of times. But talk to
me about why is it so difficult for both of you?
Speaker 4 (03:48):
Well, I think, well you could certainly speak to the
to the creative, because I think it's a lot putting
on a musical. I mean, they're so complex. But from
my perspective where I entered into this show, you know,
you got to get butts and seats every night, and
I think letting people know that Broadway is out there,
especially a show and I will say this is a
black show, to let black people know that this is
(04:09):
a show that speaks to their experience. That's for them,
So reaching our audience. When people tend to do, you know,
promote Broadway the old Way, they like to promote Broadway.
So letting people know that we're out there and getting
people to come in every night is a challenge.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
And what about you, James and roal Igelhart, I keep saying, no.
Speaker 3 (04:29):
Please, go ahead. You know you can just call me James, James, Jmi, uncle,
Jimmy never never Jimmy. No, no, no, no, no.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
Jimmy.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
I get flashbacks when I was a kid. You know.
I'm also I'm just looking at me. I'm That's not
a Jimmy or a Gym. I'm a James. I'm a Jaymi,
I'm a Jay, but I'm just a James. But I
always find it funny. Whoopy Goldberg said this, I'll pick
that name up. I just dropped. She said that it
was funny that people used to call it Broadway the
Great White Way all the time. There's even a song
with a Great White Way. But she said we should
change it to the Great Bright Way because the lights
(05:02):
are bright, and so are the stars, no matter what
color they are. And so the thing about it is.
Sometimes you have to change the perception of what Broadway is.
And a lot of what our folks thought Broadway is
was that it was a thing that was not for them,
and they have to understand that, yes, it is there
is for them. These stories that we're telling are not
just these white stories. They're telling all stories. They're telling
humanistic stories. And yes, our show is a black show,
(05:25):
but our show is also a show about this amazing
human being that everyone can relate to. He's not just
this old guy that sang with Barbara Streisan. These women,
these unsung heroes of his life. Without them being there,
they he wouldn't be who he was. And there's not
a husband out there who is worth his salt that
will be honest with themselves, that will say that if
(05:46):
they are successful in any way, they know damn well
they wife had a lot to do with it. I've
been married twenty three years, so I can tell you
these ladies. I wouldn't be where I am if wasn't
for that lady. So these women help shaped him. And
when I think when people of color and see our show,
they go, oh, I get that. There's a moment in
our show where they can go oh, I get that too,
and Broadway needs to. We're starting to more let folks
(06:10):
know that this is for everyone because we're telling everyone's
story now, we're not just telling one side.
Speaker 4 (06:15):
And you can get tickets from various different ways too,
I mean because Broadway is expensive too, but there are
ways you can go to t K t Yes, you
can get rush tickets. Like if you're looking for ways
to get really good seats at better prices, there are
ways to do.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
There's a place called today Ticks that has great prices
for people. So every regular you know, person who goes, oh,
I want to see that show, go on today tics
dot com. My friends work.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
Exactly.
Speaker 3 (06:40):
Oh my god.
Speaker 4 (06:42):
And it's still there.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
And it's a funny. It's fun experience with the family,
not when it's you know, thirteen below, but it's a fun.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
I was like, they're not going to wait for us.
We got to be on time. But the other thing,
you can't three, You better be there at three. And
I will say then.
Speaker 3 (06:57):
Being in a show of color on Broadway is because
of our reputation with CP times. We deliberately start on
time every night I have done. I did Memphis Black Show,
I did Aladdin. There was more brown people than Disney
expected for us to be there for us every show
I've ever been in our stage, messins like no were
starting on time. You ain't gonna talk about us, about us,
(07:18):
we cannot.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
They're not holding the doors. When they say three, they
mean three, they don't mean three thirty.
Speaker 3 (07:23):
No, we are on time. You walk into three thirty.
You've missed one of the wives.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
I saw in an interview you said that Lewis Armstrong
would be a rapper today because he was pretty hood.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
Oh he was pretty hood. He was madhood.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
I mean I didn't know anything about his story.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
Like I know obviously like the huge songs that are
but again like this was the history of Louis arnsteng
of jazz. Also, he was from New Orleans and that's
where jazz originated.
Speaker 3 (07:51):
And he was madhood. I mean, the fun thing is
one of my you know, being a I do freestyle
raps with my friends and we battle. People don't know
that Lewis was a battler. He would battle. They what
they would do is a trailer would drive up. He'd
be in his trailer. They tie them tyler wheels. Another
trailer would drive up and they Tyler wheels and these
boys would go head to add horn for horn and
(08:11):
Lewis rarely lost and this would blow folks out. And
he even said, there's this wonderful interview he did with
Dick Cavit years ago where he said, you know, my
kicks was just blowing that cat out the wagon. You
know that he loved that, going head for head, going
after people, battling dudes like rappers do. He was. He
was very very hood and in the best way possible,
(08:31):
you know, he he was. He knew how black he was,
and he was very appreciative of that and he owned it.
He never tried to beat anything else. I think what
happened was once you get to Hollywood, there's a way
they want to present to you. And Lewis never changed himself,
but how they presented him, and that's something he couldn't control.
That was the machine can control how he's presented. And
(08:52):
they tried to, you know, water him down. But now
when they said cut, he was still the brother that
he was, and that's what makes him so much fun
to me. You know.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
I think some of the things and speeches and what
we saw in this play also is so representative even
today of what's going on. I was like, they couldn't
have timed this better because obviously, when you were getting
ready for this play, we didn't know who the president
was about to be. And seeing a lot of our
rights getting rolled back, seeing a lot of things happening,
seeing DEI initiatives being taken away, you know, and knowing
(09:23):
that we didn't come from a space where we were
starting at an equal point, and the way that it's presented,
like we're not worthy or deserving of things. We're being
handed things that we don't deserve, like we don't have
to work a thousand times harder to be in certain positions.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
And watching this it made me emotional.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
It felt like and I know you're acting, but it
did feel like there's times that you get very emotional
even when you're on that stage.
Speaker 3 (09:46):
I was like, is he for there is not a
moment that The two moments that get me are the
political moment of the Little Rock nine and also a
wonderful world. It gets me every time. And the reason
why the political moment gets me was it's always gotten
me just because to know that, you know, I used
to say, well, you know, you know, my family went
(10:07):
through that to know that we're going through the now,
you know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
Crazy.
Speaker 3 (10:10):
This show was written in I think around twenty and
seventeen and then sort of being presented in twenty nineteen
all the way up to now, and they've been Orrin
has been you know, finessing it all the way up
until our opening night. So those scenes were written before
any of this stuff sorted happening. It's just amazing how
technology has changed, but human beings have not.
Speaker 4 (10:31):
What's the line that Louis Lewis says about, like, it's
not bad that black people he.
Speaker 3 (10:37):
Says, He says, he says, I love my country. He goes,
but it's not wrong for black people to be upset
at America. That's not un American. To be upset with
your country does not mean you're un American. It actually
means you're more American because you care about what happens
in your country and you wanted to make sure that
everybody is taken care of. That's what you care about.
(11:01):
And he felt that way, and that line's in there
to let people know. Look, just because I'm mad, someone
says to him, you're being unpatriotic. It's not unpatriotic to
be upset at your country. It's more unpatriotic to not
care and be blase about it. You've got to say something.
If you cared, you're going to be emotional about it
and do something about it.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
I hate when people are like, well move then leave
the country. Then like, why should I leave?
Speaker 3 (11:24):
And by the.
Speaker 4 (11:24):
Way, I'm as American as they get. Where am I going?
Speaker 3 (11:27):
We're not from here, and you know, and that's a
whole different. But don't be mad at me because because
I used because I live the dream of the American,
because I live the American dream. Don't be upset.
Speaker 4 (11:43):
But that's what's so great about the show, right, Like,
because we're having this conversation. I was saying to someone
earlier that, you know, I brought Spike and my kids
to the show, and Spike was really surprised. He's like,
I didn't know Lewis Armstrong spoke out against President Eisenhower.
I didn't know that he stood up.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
And lost a lot of work because of it.
Speaker 3 (12:02):
There's a fun moment that we couldn't put in the
show just because it actually named people. But when Lewis
spoke out, there was a you guys, remember when Laura
Ingram told Lebron James to shut up and dribble. Okay, Well,
when he spoke out about the Little Rock nine, Uh,
there was a newscat anew a new a press release
(12:23):
and you could find it where just he says, Louis
Amschanx just shut up and play. Wow. Now that was
during the Eisenhower era, and it's almost the exact same
thing said about Louis for speaking out that they said
about Lebron only a couple of years ago. So the
press is still doing that that this happened to Lewis.
He was blacklisted because he spoke out and said, we
(12:46):
need to be upset. And I know I'm not going
to go to Russia and represent our country unless they
do something about this, you know, going down going on
down there on Little Rock. And once that happened, it
was it.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
Yeah, I mean, it was just so many things that
of course, and like you said, I didn't know Lewis
Armstrong story before watching this, So I was excited about
that because I love to see, like, you know, the
real stories of what happened, because I already knew it
was going to be a who just even seeing like
you know, it starts off with him letting you know
he had four wives.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
He did it four.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
Times, and so I was like, all right, this already
about to be right, No bopraa a little bit, just
seeing the different women. And what was interesting that each
woman brought something different to him and to his life.
To get to it was like he needed different things
at different times.
Speaker 3 (13:37):
That's exactly what it was. And he was you know,
we don't really get to we say it in our show,
but we're not deliberate. But he was you know, only
in his teens when he was with his first wife,
played by the amazing Dion Figgins, and he was in
his early twenties to almost you know, he got to
about thirty when he met Lil Harden and actually litl
Hard needs to musical all by herself.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
Yeah, she was his manager.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
She was his manager. She was also the band leader.
She was the arranger of a lot of the music
for Freney of Louis Armstrong fans out there, of the
Hot five, of the Hot seven, she was the arranger
of those songs.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
She was no joke.
Speaker 3 (14:07):
She was no joke. She was producer, riter. She if
she had been a man, she'd be up there with
Fatz Waller and Jelly Roll Morton and the rest of
those jazz greats.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
But she knew what her limitations were as a woman,
that she wasn't ever going to get those accolades. So
she was going hard for her man, yes, to get that, and.
Speaker 3 (14:22):
She pushed him out there. She's without little hard and
we would not have Louis Armstrong. Louis was totally okay
with playing, you know, second trumpet behind King Joe Oliver,
which is another legend whatever, and he was like, I'll
be fine, and she was like, no, you need to
be out front. You have the talent. And if she
hadn't pushed him, we wouldn't have what we have today.
It's because of her. And then there was a moment
(14:43):
where you know, somehow, I don't know what it is
with males or guys. I'm a man, so I admit it.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
You tell us.
Speaker 3 (14:47):
We go, we go, we go, we go, we go,
we go through this moment when we hit a certain age,
we were like, ah, oh lord, I need to do
something different, which is really stupid, and he did and
he went up with this younger girl and he realized,
well this was that lasted about two or three years,
he was like, yeah, I need to grow up. And
he met Lucillo, who he stayed married to for thirty
eight years.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
Yeah, she got the She got the one that was like, okay,
I did everything I had to do.
Speaker 4 (15:13):
But I and she also knew what she had to
do keep him on the street.
Speaker 3 (15:17):
Yeah, she's the one that made him grow up.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
But imagine, I mean being a young jazz musician traveling
the world.
Speaker 3 (15:24):
Like I said, he's a hood. I mean, think about
the everybody and they were all money. You get a
little bit of fame. You going like that?
Speaker 4 (15:34):
I know, Well there are groupies everywhere, yes, right, and
even groupies for Louis Armstrong.
Speaker 3 (15:39):
Straight, I'm not Louis Armstrong, okay, but I've asked. I've
had some ladies of a certain age walk up to
me and say some questionable things after the show, and
I was like, one, but you did a great job.
I'm like, one, I'm married in two you could beat
my grandma. What happened? I listened, I listened to Louis
(16:02):
drum and I was I was like, ma'am, ma'am, ma'am.
I don't want to know.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
I don't want to know what lot it, Tanya. You're
married to Spike Lee.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
You're the strong woman that's you know, at his side,
and you're doing your thing too.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
Do you deal with the groupie situation when it comes
to him?
Speaker 4 (16:16):
You know, Spike and I have been married thirty one years,
so I don't know at this point, I don't think so.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
But you know, you have done with it in the past,
you know, you know.
Speaker 4 (16:27):
It's always something, you know, people knocking you over to
get to people.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
But oh, that's so annoying, it is, Yeah, but it's
all right. And people tugging him over to get to you. Yeah, well,
you know how it happens exactly. And then what I
wasn't mad at was the third young soft wife leaving
with the drummer.
Speaker 3 (16:43):
She was that really happened. That's one of my favorite
part of his story. And this girl left with his
drummer and his white drummer at that.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
Oh, they didn't get exactly.
Speaker 4 (16:52):
I didn't know.
Speaker 3 (16:54):
Alpha left with his white drummer. And then what Alpha
did was she basically kind of erased herself from public eye.
Speaker 4 (17:00):
She started passing.
Speaker 3 (17:01):
No, no, not not passing, but she just didn't do
anything in the public eye. And she had enough money
to have her for herself buried in the Hollywood Cemetery
with all the rest of the stars.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
Oh my god.
Speaker 3 (17:12):
She was like, nah, I'm leaving this life. I'm leaving
this business. And me and the drummer they went off
and had a great life, and no one after that moment. No,
you can't find any more information about her.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
She was like, damn interested.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
I'm kind of not mad at her, but she got.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
It look back exactly, I'm done. And the funny part
is there's an interview with Lewis where someone said, how
do you feel about you drummer? Take and he's like, well,
you know, this is domb that's his business. Now, I'm fine.
And he knew he was wrong. He's way too old
for her. He knew he shouldn't have been there, and
so he just kind of let it goes like, look,
I'm gonna let it go. It's fine.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
And the accountability of knowing he wasn't really around, he
was doing what he wanted to do, well, it's so funny.
Speaker 4 (17:48):
When I watched that scene, She's like, damn, can we
just go for a walk or something. You always playing
that trumpet And I look at that scene and I
say to myself, Honey, he ain't gonna go for a walk.
He's gonna keep playing his form. That's who he is.
You know, like you, there are certain people you just
can't expect certain things from.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
You know. Now, another part was the whole Step and
fetch It?
Speaker 2 (18:08):
Yeah, so can we talk about that, because just even
seeing like Louis Armstrong, seeing step and fetch It and
the things at that time that they had to do
to be successful. But to pretend to not be smart,
to pretend to be this person that they weren't, to
pretend to not know how to read music even though
you do, because white people got intimidated by that. But
(18:30):
tell us the story of Step and fetch It, because
when we hear step and fetch It, we automatically just
think sell out, we think, we think all of those things.
Speaker 3 (18:37):
The cool thing about Lincoln Perry is he was one
of the smartest entertainers in Hollywood and he came up
with this character that was literally he would do in vaudeville,
and black folks thought it was funny, so he did
it in a movie. The problem with doing it in
a movie are the same problems we actually have today.
(18:58):
You're driving down the street and a dude in a
really really cool car. Now this boy thinks he is
in fast and the furious. The rest of us are
just trying to get home because when men, somehow, or
even when regular people watch movies or TV, they forget
that it's TV and movies and think it's real. When
Stepenfetchit came out, the general populist thought, whoa, Well, that's
(19:19):
what will pop their eyes, because that's how black people are,
and it was a character that Lincoln played. People didn't
know that. By the time Lincoln was his name was
above the title. He was making more than the president
at the time. Lincoln came back to New York with
four Cadillacs, and the NAACP at first was upset that
he was in town until they realized he was in town.
Then they were like, oh my god, it's Lincoln par
Lincoln Parry. And then after he left and they went
(19:40):
back to calling him Acoon and Uncle Tom and all
that kind of stuff. Lincoln made so much money and
he was doing so well. But as the times changed,
black folks, of course wanted to get away from that
type of caricature. And instead of them saying thank you
for what you've done, but we're gonna move on. They
decided to shun him and then Stepenfetchit became a term
that you use to talk about other people and say
(20:03):
you're cowtow and you're cooning your this and that. It
literally was a character he created, and he died very,
very upset about that because he really felt like he
was the first one of the first black people to
have his name above the title of movies. He was
the star of films, and he in his mind he
was like, look, they know we're lying. He didn't realize
that the white people did not realize. They didn't realize
(20:23):
he was lying.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
It's kind of like day.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
When he stepped away from the Chappelle Show, he was like,
it's different when we're laughing at right than it is.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
When are they laughing.
Speaker 3 (20:36):
Say in the show, are you laughing with me or
laughing at me? And that particular scene we we did manipulate,
like kind of there's moments in Hamilton where they kind
of manipulate a scene of time.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
So he has you guys, okay, Louis.
Speaker 3 (20:48):
Armstrong and Lincoln Perry did know each other and did
have conversations, and we decided to take those different moments
of time and put them into one thing. But Louis
loved his smile, and he knew that he was gonna
stay himself. But also there was a certain way to
navigate through things, so it wasn't like he was delivered.
(21:09):
Where Lincoln created a character, Lewis always said, I'm not
gonna create a character. I'm just gonna be me. And
if they like me, they're gonna like me. And if
they hate me, they're gonna hate me. But I will
just be me. The problem is that the perception in
those films when he was in when he was doing
just being himself, he was so nice and so you know,
admirable that white folks went, oh, well, see he's he's
(21:31):
not like the others. He's he's a good black man.
They don't realize how angry to listen. I've heard some
tapes at the at the Louis Armstrong Museum, there are
Lewis love to tape his conversations and there are tapes
of him talking about people calling him a coon and
Uncle Tom, and the language he used would make fifty
cent blush. I mean, he and his wife they would
(21:54):
talk and his friends would talk and they were serious,
but he knew how people perceived him. But he also
knew He said, perceive me how you want. But if
I can show a positive light as a black man
so that you can see that we're not the savages
you think we are, then I will do that and
I will use my money to help the cause without
you knowing. And so both he and Lincoln did that. Unfortunately,
(22:17):
they got lumped up into this group of people like
with bilbo Jangles and had a mcdoniel where they would say, oh,
look what you're a butterfly, McQueen, look what you're doing,
not realizing that these black people broke the barrier and
took all the craps so that the new generation in
the sixties and seventies could come in, so that eighties great,
you know, so we can have the Denzel Washingtons we
(22:39):
have now without those folks breaking down and dealing with
what they had to deal with. And unfortunately, Stephen Fetchit's
name became a bad verb and really, and that man,
that man's story. That's the other one I want to do,
not me playing.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
World too, Yes, you said you.
Speaker 3 (23:00):
Koperry is the one.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
Now, let's have a moment of honesty here, sure, James Monroe,
I go heart.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
Yes, I saw that.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
You said originally you weren't even thinking about playing the
role of Lewis Armstrong. You just wanted to produce it,
be a part of it, a part of it. Now,
when did that change for you?
Speaker 3 (23:20):
Having a moment honest? Okay, the show is open, not
gonna be a little more honest. I was watching Ken
Burns Jazz and saw Louis Armstrong and thought that'd be
a great role to play. But unfortunately someone was already
playing the role, okay, and that was a person I knew,
and I'm not going to take a job from a brother, okay.
So I was like, look, anything I can do to
make the show as good as it can be. How
can I help? And then when the show closed, they
(23:43):
talked about recasting and that's when I said, well, let
me let me show you what I can do and
they were like, oh snap, and I was like, yeah,
that's this is what I do. And that's how it
came about.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
Because that iconic voice, how were you able to master that?
Speaker 3 (24:01):
A lot of work. It's like going to the gym.
The vocal cords is a muscle, and so I have
a wonderful vocal coach named Derick Rosenblad who helps me out.
And I also see my E and T twice a
month to make sure my chords are okay.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
Yeah, because that's a it's a lot.
Speaker 3 (24:14):
But also I'm thanks. My wife is the most understanding
woman in the world. I'm a hermit. When I go home,
I don't talk. I'm chilling that I just I just
relax and if I'm either getting ready for.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
The show, the same thing.
Speaker 3 (24:26):
Oh yeah, she knows. She's like, you know, I walk
in and she's like, should you be talking? I'm like,
I have something to say? What should you? Can you
write it down? Text me.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
All the us right?
Speaker 2 (24:39):
Can we get my man to play to train?
Speaker 4 (24:42):
Or is it not speaks not talk? No?
Speaker 3 (24:44):
Because but also she wed I made the joke before,
but she'll look at me sometimes. Should go listen money,
I mean, honey, you need to be quiet because you
have a job to do, because if I talk too much,
you know, to mess me up. But we've we when
I said I was going to do the role, we
had a deep conversation about how the how my life
and how our life was going to be. So even
the kids are like, pop, should you be talking? I'm like,
(25:05):
you're right quiet now.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
Look I want to ask you this, Tanya Lewis Lee,
when you were watching this, his last wife, his fourth wife, right,
she dealt with a lot from him. And I have
to say in the audience, I was watching like girl,
like you know how we are like don't So he
done went on the road, had a baby by somebody else, right,
But she took him back and.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
Forgave him and was like you're not going on the
road without me.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
For because when I was first watching it, and I
respect it now because it did work out. It could
have went either way, but you know, for us sitting there,
we're like, girl, really, but you know.
Speaker 4 (25:41):
It's so it's so interesting to me because I think
she probably she saw what could be. And by the way,
I love that scene where he comes and he's like
when they're like, okay, we're going to you to go
back out on the road, and Lewis was like, no,
I don't. I don't want to go because you know me,
he knows himself. And she's like, oh, honey, please know
way I'm letting you go by yourself anymore, and like
(26:02):
she is there for him and I think they really
built something. I'm watching this show on Netflix called Asura.
It's a Japanese show and it is about sort of
how infidelity infiltrates relationships and how women and families deal
with it in a kind of humorous way. And I
think just because someone is unfaithful doesn't mean a relationship
(26:28):
has to end. It's really about figuring out what's working
between you two and how you work through it and
what's the what's the commitment that you make to each
other and how do you move forward from that? You know,
And it seemed obviously they stayed married for thirty eight
years until he died.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
And it was a different day and age back then too,
you know exactly. Yeah, I feel like things have we
seen ease by you and even before that, we know,
it ain't like we had social media, right because let
me tell you, Louis Armstrong today would be sliding in
MD you you wouldn't believe.
Speaker 1 (26:59):
You know, I don't know if I had thirty eight
years when it lasted.
Speaker 4 (27:01):
Well, I always laugh because I say he's a jazz musician,
and you know, jazz musicians have that reputation and like I.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
SA right.
Speaker 3 (27:13):
True, But you know, he's also what I love about
Lewis was that he's he was very honest about his life.
And we had this we had this like this ongoing
message with the show was that we said, jazz is
about the choices you make in between the notes, and
so that's kind of how he lived his life. He's like,
(27:35):
are you okay with the choices that you made? And
if you're okay with those choices, and you've had a
wonderful world. And he knew that he made a lot
of mistakes, and he whenever it came to Lucille, he
owned up to them. He knew that she was the one.
He knew that the two women that he really really
messed up were Lil Hardened, and they became. The fun
(27:56):
part that we couldn't put in the show is Lil
Harden and Lewis stayed friends, and Lil Harden played at
his funeral, but she got the last laugh. She died
at his funeral. What Lil Harden had a heart attack
at his funeral, so he was it's his funeral, but
the story was about him. She stayed him, and that's
what I always thought. It was funny about them, but Lucille, it's.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
Like proposing at a wedding.
Speaker 3 (28:20):
Lucille was there for him, and he knew that the
one woman who had his back. And every interview you
see from the time time he gets older, he always.
Speaker 4 (28:30):
Well, my parents. I was talking to my parents this
weekend and they were talking about Oh yeah, I remember.
Whenever he was talking, he would always blow kisses at Lucille.
He was always talking about Lucille, Lucille, Lucille.
Speaker 3 (28:40):
Remember that every there's a there's a song where he
does there's the version of this. Sorry, there's a song
we have in our show and I've lost it because
I'm losing my mind constantly. But he in this recording
that there's that the recording of the song, he mentions Lucille.
He always made sure he talked about her because she
(29:00):
could have left right, and she decided he got it right,
and he never ever forgot because she also she could
have She did.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
By the house saying listen, you need a roof over
your head.
Speaker 3 (29:14):
So he knew, he knew, he knew where the real
life was and let her know.
Speaker 1 (29:19):
It was such a fascinating story.
Speaker 2 (29:21):
And you guys, the whole cast I was when I'm
watching it and I'm watching just even the choreography of
it singing, it was I was like, how are they
not falling off this thing? Like it was when I
tell you, incredible. There's not a moment that I felt like,
even the parts that were very interactive with the audience.
I love that, you know that we had the opportunity
to get involved and sing along. Although the crowd sounded
(29:43):
you know, yeah.
Speaker 3 (29:45):
You know, everybody came. Everybody, everybody can be a cuiet.
We're supposed to be involved.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
But no, it was amazing. So I just want to
say congratulations. I feel like, and this is coming to
a close on Broadway February twenty.
Speaker 1 (29:59):
Third, February twenty three, So how do Somebody was asking
me this, and I was like, I don't really know.
How do they decide?
Speaker 2 (30:05):
You know, because I know sometimes plays they they see
they extended, some of them ended.
Speaker 1 (30:11):
Up being on Broadway forever, are still there.
Speaker 4 (30:13):
But how do they go after two weeks?
Speaker 1 (30:15):
Yeah, I saw a couple of those.
Speaker 4 (30:17):
Yeah, well I think you know, it's it's a few things.
I mean, again, like I said earlier, you got to
get butts in the scenes or otherwise you're losing.
Speaker 1 (30:24):
It was packed. When I was there.
Speaker 3 (30:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (30:25):
Yeah, well I wish every night was like that. Unfortunately,
it's taken us a little while to find our audience.
And you know, with Broadway, you know, there could be
another show that's coming in and there's the theater behind us.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
And it's at Studio fifty four, which is iconic. Yeah yeah,
as wells.
Speaker 3 (30:41):
Thing to come there. And also, you know, Broadway goes
through waves and this is an interesting character and that's
another issue with it. You know, like we said, most
people know when they think of Louis Armstrong, they have
one thought. They don't think of like, you know, there's
a whole life that you don't know, right, and when
people come to see it, they're like, oh my god,
I had no idea. So with this was this was
(31:02):
a risk. We took one and I'm proud of the
risk that we took. And the people that have seen
it love it, and the people that are going to
see it are going to love it. And this this
will have a life afterwards. But this is just one
of those you know, unfortunate.
Speaker 2 (31:16):
To come back, you know, because you never know what
can happen, but you got to make sure you see it.
It's so good, like such a great date night situation.
A lot of my friends their first time going to
Burrowick was because I took them, you know, to a play,
which I love because everybody that goes is like, I
need to like come out more and go see plays more.
It really is such an experience. But this one is
(31:37):
really special.
Speaker 4 (31:38):
It's a fun show. And I have heard people say, oh, oh,
it's not what I expected. It's different from what I expected.
Speaker 2 (31:45):
Yeah, no, absolutely, I feel like movie, well, that's where
we really wanted to, you know, let people know the truth.
Speaker 3 (31:51):
Like, his story is really interesting, it's really fun and
you can get into it. So for those of you
who love jazz, this is a show for you. For
those of you who just really love the Real Housewives
or whatever city, this is the show for you. For
those of you who want to For those of you
who want a history lesson, this is the show for you.
For those shows. For those people who just want a
great musical with great music, great dancing, and just a
(32:12):
great showmanship, this is the show for you. We have
everything in our show, but we're also letting you know
one of the heroes of American music, and without him
and what he did, our music would not be what
it is today.
Speaker 2 (32:25):
Man, just hearing what a wonderful world after watching that
whole play and that final like it was, it just
was like, oh, it just summed it all up.
Speaker 4 (32:35):
And thinking about the world we're in now too, right
writing in this moment.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
You sitting it like dang, this happened. Then this is
happening again right now. And then I got to ask you, Tanya,
because you're always working. I know you had your children's books, documentaries,
things that are important to you, monster after Shock.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
What else are you working on right now?
Speaker 4 (32:53):
Well, I'm just I'm in the woodshed right now, so
I'm writing a couple of things and developing some projects.
So stay tuned. Twenty twenty five, Yeah, twenty twenty five
is a year of work. I'll let you know when
I'm ready to let you know.
Speaker 1 (33:06):
And for you, James, what's next for you?
Speaker 3 (33:09):
I am working on a brand new musical called The
funcn Teene Rapture, written by a friend of my name,
Lee Summers, and it's all about It's this wonderful nineteen
seventies funk fable about a young man named George Preston
who wants to learn to be a funk master. And
it's really funny and really fun and the music is
awesome and we're hoping people get down to it when
they do it. And for you people out there who
have little kids, if your children watch Disney Super Kiddies,
(33:31):
you'll probably hear my voices mister Puppy Pause or Disney's Kiff,
you'll hear my voices Martin, and so you know, I'm
usually around on somebody's children show.
Speaker 2 (33:38):
Well, thank you both so much. I really appreciate its pleasure.
Speaker 4 (33:41):
Thank you so much. Angela well
Well, what's up.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
It's way up with Angela Yee and I have two
people here that have three names.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
All right, Tanya lewis Lee and James.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Monroe I Gohart. Thank you guys both for joining me today, Thank.
Speaker 3 (00:13):
You for having pleasure, Thank you glad to be here.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
And I want to say, like I am just blown away.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
I went to go see the play that You're in
a Wonderful World, the story about Louis Armstrong.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
I always call him Louis Armstrong.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
You know either one, but I mean absolutely incredible just
seeing you sitting here. James Monroe, I Golhart, you killed
that role, that voice you have to do, because that
couldn't be easy.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
No, but it's it's a lot of fun to be
able to step into that man's shoes and his life
miss nothing but like a wonderful history lesson for me
every day. But it's also that moment of like giving
honor back to a person who without him, I would
not be able to do what I do. I'm standing
on his shoulder, so it feels good to be able
to do it every night.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
And Tanya lewis Lee, you are a co producer exactly
of this play. Me how you ended up getting involved
and you know, I am maya work so much from
aftershak thank you, and just the meaning that goes behind
everything that it is that you decide to be involved with.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
I already know is going to be quality work.
Speaker 4 (01:12):
I appreciate that. I really appreciate that. Angela and I
have to say, you know the same thing with the show,
right Like people have asked me to produce Broadway in
the past. I know it's a hard business, so I've
always said no. But when I got exposed to the show,
I saw first of all what it was about, how
entertaining it is. I learned a lot about Lewis Armstrong.
(01:35):
It's a story about a black man in our world
and his journey, and I think it has real impact
and its history and it's entertaining. But I came on
too it because of Vanessa Williams and her partner Liz Curtis.
They invited me to a showcase one night. I got
to see James and the four amazing women who were
(01:57):
in the show.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
Everybody in that show, but yes, all your wives were amazing.
I was like, I don't know who because they all
had a different sound to them, but they all like
blew me Away exactly with how they sing and their
presence and their story and just so relatable.
Speaker 4 (02:14):
They are and they're amazing. And then I knew Branford
Marsalis had come on to do the orchestrations. Uh, we
have Ricky Tripp.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
And do it, DeWitt Fleming Junior as our Ricky Tripp
as our choreographer, and Dwitt Fleming Junior is our tap choreographer.
And also with Branford Marcellus, we have Daryl Waters, who
is one of the greatest Broadway legends around. There isn't
a show around that doesn't have Darryl Waters a part
of it. And Darryl and Branford together made our music
sound so authentic and so cool.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
It was phenomenal.
Speaker 4 (02:44):
And a brother by the name of Orange Squire wrote
the script. Yes, okay and so, and then James co
directs the show with Christina sej and Chris Renshaw.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
I mean Tony Award winning James and more that one, Okay,
I just wanted co directing as well the show that
he we threw that in there.
Speaker 4 (03:04):
It's an amazing creative team behind the scenes as well
as on the stage.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
So how could I say, no, see, I told you
once I knew she was like, I know that there's
so many things you could do exactly, but Broadway, you said,
is difficult.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
So can you talk about why?
Speaker 2 (03:20):
Because you know, we don't know the ins and outs
of what goes on behind the scenes. And I try
to go and support like as much as I can,
because one thing I always say this when I go
to Broadway plays, I don't see enough of us, you know,
going to see those plays and I'll go see Jaja's
African hair braiding. I went to go see for Colored Girls.
She's amazing, fantastic everything that I can. Obviously, the Lion King,
(03:42):
I saw that a couple of times. But talk to
me about why is it so difficult for both of you?
Speaker 4 (03:48):
Well, I think, well you could certainly speak to the
to the creative, because I think it's a lot putting
on a musical. I mean, they're so complex. But from
my perspective where I entered into this show, you know,
you got to get butts and seats every night, and
I think letting people know that Broadway is out there,
especially a show and I will say this is a
black show, to let black people know that this is
(04:09):
a show that speaks to their experience. That's for them,
So reaching our audience. When people tend to do, you know,
promote Broadway the old Way, they like to promote Broadway.
So letting people know that we're out there and getting
people to come in every night is a challenge.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
And what about you, James and roal Igelhart, I keep saying, no.
Speaker 3 (04:29):
Please, go ahead. You know you can just call me James, James, Jmi, uncle,
Jimmy never never Jimmy. No, no, no, no, no.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
Jimmy.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
I get flashbacks when I was a kid. You know.
I'm also I'm just looking at me. I'm That's not
a Jimmy or a Gym. I'm a James. I'm a Jaymi,
I'm a Jay, but I'm just a James. But I
always find it funny. Whoopy Goldberg said this, I'll pick
that name up. I just dropped. She said that it
was funny that people used to call it Broadway the
Great White Way all the time. There's even a song
with a Great White Way. But she said we should
change it to the Great Bright Way because the lights
(05:02):
are bright, and so are the stars, no matter what
color they are. And so the thing about it is.
Sometimes you have to change the perception of what Broadway is.
And a lot of what our folks thought Broadway is
was that it was a thing that was not for them,
and they have to understand that, yes, it is there
is for them. These stories that we're telling are not
just these white stories. They're telling all stories. They're telling
humanistic stories. And yes, our show is a black show,
(05:25):
but our show is also a show about this amazing
human being that everyone can relate to. He's not just
this old guy that sang with Barbara Streisan. These women,
these unsung heroes of his life. Without them being there,
they he wouldn't be who he was. And there's not
a husband out there who is worth his salt that
will be honest with themselves, that will say that if
(05:46):
they are successful in any way, they know damn well
they wife had a lot to do with it. I've
been married twenty three years, so I can tell you
these ladies. I wouldn't be where I am if wasn't
for that lady. So these women help shaped him. And
when I think when people of color and see our show,
they go, oh, I get that. There's a moment in
our show where they can go oh, I get that too,
and Broadway needs to. We're starting to more let folks
(06:10):
know that this is for everyone because we're telling everyone's
story now, we're not just telling one side.
Speaker 4 (06:15):
And you can get tickets from various different ways too,
I mean because Broadway is expensive too, but there are
ways you can go to t K t Yes, you
can get rush tickets. Like if you're looking for ways
to get really good seats at better prices, there are
ways to do.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
There's a place called today Ticks that has great prices
for people. So every regular you know, person who goes, oh,
I want to see that show, go on today tics
dot com. My friends work.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
Exactly.
Speaker 3 (06:40):
Oh my god.
Speaker 4 (06:42):
And it's still there.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
And it's a funny. It's fun experience with the family,
not when it's you know, thirteen below, but it's a fun.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
I was like, they're not going to wait for us.
We got to be on time. But the other thing,
you can't three, You better be there at three. And
I will say then.
Speaker 3 (06:57):
Being in a show of color on Broadway is because
of our reputation with CP times. We deliberately start on
time every night I have done. I did Memphis Black Show,
I did Aladdin. There was more brown people than Disney
expected for us to be there for us every show
I've ever been in our stage, messins like no were
starting on time. You ain't gonna talk about us, about us,
(07:18):
we cannot.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
They're not holding the doors. When they say three, they
mean three, they don't mean three thirty.
Speaker 3 (07:23):
No, we are on time. You walk into three thirty.
You've missed one of the wives.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
I saw in an interview you said that Lewis Armstrong
would be a rapper today because he was pretty hood.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
Oh he was pretty hood. He was madhood.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
I mean I didn't know anything about his story.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
Like I know obviously like the huge songs that are
but again like this was the history of Louis arnsteng
of jazz. Also, he was from New Orleans and that's
where jazz originated.
Speaker 3 (07:51):
And he was madhood. I mean, the fun thing is
one of my you know, being a I do freestyle
raps with my friends and we battle. People don't know
that Lewis was a battler. He would battle. They what
they would do is a trailer would drive up. He'd
be in his trailer. They tie them tyler wheels. Another
trailer would drive up and they Tyler wheels and these
boys would go head to add horn for horn and
(08:11):
Lewis rarely lost and this would blow folks out. And
he even said, there's this wonderful interview he did with
Dick Cavit years ago where he said, you know, my
kicks was just blowing that cat out the wagon. You
know that he loved that, going head for head, going
after people, battling dudes like rappers do. He was. He
was very very hood and in the best way possible,
(08:31):
you know, he he was. He knew how black he was,
and he was very appreciative of that and he owned it.
He never tried to beat anything else. I think what
happened was once you get to Hollywood, there's a way
they want to present to you. And Lewis never changed himself,
but how they presented him, and that's something he couldn't control.
That was the machine can control how he's presented. And
(08:52):
they tried to, you know, water him down. But now
when they said cut, he was still the brother that
he was, and that's what makes him so much fun
to me. You know.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
I think some of the things and speeches and what
we saw in this play also is so representative even
today of what's going on. I was like, they couldn't
have timed this better because obviously, when you were getting
ready for this play, we didn't know who the president
was about to be. And seeing a lot of our
rights getting rolled back, seeing a lot of things happening,
seeing DEI initiatives being taken away, you know, and knowing
(09:23):
that we didn't come from a space where we were
starting at an equal point, and the way that it's presented,
like we're not worthy or deserving of things. We're being
handed things that we don't deserve, like we don't have
to work a thousand times harder to be in certain positions.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
And watching this it made me emotional.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
It felt like and I know you're acting, but it
did feel like there's times that you get very emotional
even when you're on that stage.
Speaker 3 (09:46):
I was like, is he for there is not a
moment that The two moments that get me are the
political moment of the Little Rock nine and also a
wonderful world. It gets me every time. And the reason
why the political moment gets me was it's always gotten
me just because to know that, you know, I used
to say, well, you know, you know, my family went
(10:07):
through that to know that we're going through the now,
you know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
Crazy.
Speaker 3 (10:10):
This show was written in I think around twenty and
seventeen and then sort of being presented in twenty nineteen
all the way up to now, and they've been Orrin
has been you know, finessing it all the way up
until our opening night. So those scenes were written before
any of this stuff sorted happening. It's just amazing how
technology has changed, but human beings have not.
Speaker 4 (10:31):
What's the line that Louis Lewis says about, like, it's
not bad that black people he.
Speaker 3 (10:37):
Says, He says, he says, I love my country. He goes,
but it's not wrong for black people to be upset
at America. That's not un American. To be upset with
your country does not mean you're un American. It actually
means you're more American because you care about what happens
in your country and you wanted to make sure that
everybody is taken care of. That's what you care about.
(11:01):
And he felt that way, and that line's in there
to let people know. Look, just because I'm mad, someone
says to him, you're being unpatriotic. It's not unpatriotic to
be upset at your country. It's more unpatriotic to not
care and be blase about it. You've got to say something.
If you cared, you're going to be emotional about it
and do something about it.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
I hate when people are like, well move then leave
the country. Then like, why should I leave?
Speaker 3 (11:24):
And by the.
Speaker 4 (11:24):
Way, I'm as American as they get. Where am I going?
Speaker 3 (11:27):
We're not from here, and you know, and that's a
whole different. But don't be mad at me because because
I used because I live the dream of the American,
because I live the American dream. Don't be upset.
Speaker 4 (11:43):
But that's what's so great about the show, right, Like,
because we're having this conversation. I was saying to someone
earlier that, you know, I brought Spike and my kids
to the show, and Spike was really surprised. He's like,
I didn't know Lewis Armstrong spoke out against President Eisenhower.
I didn't know that he stood up.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
And lost a lot of work because of it.
Speaker 3 (12:02):
There's a fun moment that we couldn't put in the
show just because it actually named people. But when Lewis
spoke out, there was a you guys, remember when Laura
Ingram told Lebron James to shut up and dribble. Okay, Well,
when he spoke out about the Little Rock nine, Uh,
there was a newscat anew a new a press release
(12:23):
and you could find it where just he says, Louis
Amschanx just shut up and play. Wow. Now that was
during the Eisenhower era, and it's almost the exact same
thing said about Louis for speaking out that they said
about Lebron only a couple of years ago. So the
press is still doing that that this happened to Lewis.
He was blacklisted because he spoke out and said, we
(12:46):
need to be upset. And I know I'm not going
to go to Russia and represent our country unless they
do something about this, you know, going down going on
down there on Little Rock. And once that happened, it
was it.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
Yeah, I mean, it was just so many things that
of course, and like you said, I didn't know Lewis
Armstrong story before watching this, So I was excited about
that because I love to see, like, you know, the
real stories of what happened, because I already knew it
was going to be a who just even seeing like
you know, it starts off with him letting you know
he had four wives.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
He did it four.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
Times, and so I was like, all right, this already
about to be right, No bopraa a little bit, just
seeing the different women. And what was interesting that each
woman brought something different to him and to his life.
To get to it was like he needed different things
at different times.
Speaker 3 (13:37):
That's exactly what it was. And he was you know,
we don't really get to we say it in our show,
but we're not deliberate. But he was you know, only
in his teens when he was with his first wife,
played by the amazing Dion Figgins, and he was in
his early twenties to almost you know, he got to
about thirty when he met Lil Harden and actually litl
Hard needs to musical all by herself.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
Yeah, she was his manager.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
She was his manager. She was also the band leader.
She was the arranger of a lot of the music
for Freney of Louis Armstrong fans out there, of the
Hot five, of the Hot seven, she was the arranger
of those songs.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
She was no joke.
Speaker 3 (14:07):
She was no joke. She was producer, riter. She if
she had been a man, she'd be up there with
Fatz Waller and Jelly Roll Morton and the rest of
those jazz greats.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
But she knew what her limitations were as a woman,
that she wasn't ever going to get those accolades. So
she was going hard for her man, yes, to get that, and.
Speaker 3 (14:22):
She pushed him out there. She's without little hard and
we would not have Louis Armstrong. Louis was totally okay
with playing, you know, second trumpet behind King Joe Oliver,
which is another legend whatever, and he was like, I'll
be fine, and she was like, no, you need to
be out front. You have the talent. And if she
hadn't pushed him, we wouldn't have what we have today.
It's because of her. And then there was a moment
(14:43):
where you know, somehow, I don't know what it is
with males or guys. I'm a man, so I admit it.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
You tell us.
Speaker 3 (14:47):
We go, we go, we go, we go, we go,
we go through this moment when we hit a certain age,
we were like, ah, oh lord, I need to do
something different, which is really stupid, and he did and
he went up with this younger girl and he realized,
well this was that lasted about two or three years,
he was like, yeah, I need to grow up. And
he met Lucillo, who he stayed married to for thirty
eight years.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
Yeah, she got the She got the one that was like, okay,
I did everything I had to do.
Speaker 4 (15:13):
But I and she also knew what she had to
do keep him on the street.
Speaker 3 (15:17):
Yeah, she's the one that made him grow up.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
But imagine, I mean being a young jazz musician traveling
the world.
Speaker 3 (15:24):
Like I said, he's a hood. I mean, think about
the everybody and they were all money. You get a
little bit of fame. You going like that?
Speaker 4 (15:34):
I know, Well there are groupies everywhere, yes, right, and
even groupies for Louis Armstrong.
Speaker 3 (15:39):
Straight, I'm not Louis Armstrong, okay, but I've asked. I've
had some ladies of a certain age walk up to
me and say some questionable things after the show, and
I was like, one, but you did a great job.
I'm like, one, I'm married in two you could beat
my grandma. What happened? I listened, I listened to Louis
(16:02):
drum and I was I was like, ma'am, ma'am, ma'am.
I don't want to know.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
I don't want to know what lot it, Tanya. You're
married to Spike Lee.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
You're the strong woman that's you know, at his side,
and you're doing your thing too.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
Do you deal with the groupie situation when it comes
to him?
Speaker 4 (16:16):
You know, Spike and I have been married thirty one years,
so I don't know at this point, I don't think so.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
But you know, you have done with it in the past,
you know, you know.
Speaker 4 (16:27):
It's always something, you know, people knocking you over to
get to people.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
But oh, that's so annoying, it is, Yeah, but it's
all right. And people tugging him over to get to you. Yeah, well,
you know how it happens exactly. And then what I
wasn't mad at was the third young soft wife leaving
with the drummer.
Speaker 3 (16:43):
She was that really happened. That's one of my favorite
part of his story. And this girl left with his
drummer and his white drummer at that.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
Oh, they didn't get exactly.
Speaker 4 (16:52):
I didn't know.
Speaker 3 (16:54):
Alpha left with his white drummer. And then what Alpha
did was she basically kind of erased herself from public eye.
Speaker 4 (17:00):
She started passing.
Speaker 3 (17:01):
No, no, not not passing, but she just didn't do
anything in the public eye. And she had enough money
to have her for herself buried in the Hollywood Cemetery
with all the rest of the stars.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
Oh my god.
Speaker 3 (17:12):
She was like, nah, I'm leaving this life. I'm leaving
this business. And me and the drummer they went off
and had a great life, and no one after that moment. No,
you can't find any more information about her.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
She was like, damn interested.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
I'm kind of not mad at her, but she got.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
It look back exactly, I'm done. And the funny part
is there's an interview with Lewis where someone said, how
do you feel about you drummer? Take and he's like, well,
you know, this is domb that's his business. Now, I'm fine.
And he knew he was wrong. He's way too old
for her. He knew he shouldn't have been there, and
so he just kind of let it goes like, look,
I'm gonna let it go. It's fine.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
And the accountability of knowing he wasn't really around, he
was doing what he wanted to do, well, it's so funny.
Speaker 4 (17:48):
When I watched that scene, She's like, damn, can we
just go for a walk or something. You always playing
that trumpet And I look at that scene and I
say to myself, Honey, he ain't gonna go for a walk.
He's gonna keep playing his form. That's who he is.
You know, like you, there are certain people you just
can't expect certain things from.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
You know. Now, another part was the whole Step and
fetch It?
Speaker 2 (18:08):
Yeah, so can we talk about that, because just even
seeing like Louis Armstrong, seeing step and fetch It and
the things at that time that they had to do
to be successful. But to pretend to not be smart,
to pretend to be this person that they weren't, to
pretend to not know how to read music even though
you do, because white people got intimidated by that. But
(18:30):
tell us the story of Step and fetch It, because
when we hear step and fetch It, we automatically just
think sell out, we think, we think all of those things.
Speaker 3 (18:37):
The cool thing about Lincoln Perry is he was one
of the smartest entertainers in Hollywood and he came up
with this character that was literally he would do in vaudeville,
and black folks thought it was funny, so he did
it in a movie. The problem with doing it in
a movie are the same problems we actually have today.
(18:58):
You're driving down the street and a dude in a
really really cool car. Now this boy thinks he is
in fast and the furious. The rest of us are
just trying to get home because when men, somehow, or
even when regular people watch movies or TV, they forget
that it's TV and movies and think it's real. When
Stepenfetchit came out, the general populist thought, whoa, Well, that's
(19:19):
what will pop their eyes, because that's how black people are,
and it was a character that Lincoln played. People didn't
know that. By the time Lincoln was his name was
above the title. He was making more than the president
at the time. Lincoln came back to New York with
four Cadillacs, and the NAACP at first was upset that
he was in town until they realized he was in town.
Then they were like, oh my god, it's Lincoln par
Lincoln Parry. And then after he left and they went
(19:40):
back to calling him Acoon and Uncle Tom and all
that kind of stuff. Lincoln made so much money and
he was doing so well. But as the times changed,
black folks, of course wanted to get away from that
type of caricature. And instead of them saying thank you
for what you've done, but we're gonna move on. They
decided to shun him and then Stepenfetchit became a term
that you use to talk about other people and say
(20:03):
you're cowtow and you're cooning your this and that. It
literally was a character he created, and he died very,
very upset about that because he really felt like he
was the first one of the first black people to
have his name above the title of movies. He was
the star of films, and he in his mind he
was like, look, they know we're lying. He didn't realize
that the white people did not realize. They didn't realize
(20:23):
he was lying.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
It's kind of like day.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
When he stepped away from the Chappelle Show, he was like,
it's different when we're laughing at right than it is.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
When are they laughing.
Speaker 3 (20:36):
Say in the show, are you laughing with me or
laughing at me? And that particular scene we we did manipulate,
like kind of there's moments in Hamilton where they kind
of manipulate a scene of time.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
So he has you guys, okay, Louis.
Speaker 3 (20:48):
Armstrong and Lincoln Perry did know each other and did
have conversations, and we decided to take those different moments
of time and put them into one thing. But Louis
loved his smile, and he knew that he was gonna
stay himself. But also there was a certain way to
navigate through things, so it wasn't like he was delivered.
(21:09):
Where Lincoln created a character, Lewis always said, I'm not
gonna create a character. I'm just gonna be me. And
if they like me, they're gonna like me. And if
they hate me, they're gonna hate me. But I will
just be me. The problem is that the perception in
those films when he was in when he was doing
just being himself, he was so nice and so you know,
admirable that white folks went, oh, well, see he's he's
(21:31):
not like the others. He's he's a good black man.
They don't realize how angry to listen. I've heard some
tapes at the at the Louis Armstrong Museum, there are
Lewis love to tape his conversations and there are tapes
of him talking about people calling him a coon and
Uncle Tom, and the language he used would make fifty
cent blush. I mean, he and his wife they would
(21:54):
talk and his friends would talk and they were serious,
but he knew how people perceived him. But he also
knew He said, perceive me how you want. But if
I can show a positive light as a black man
so that you can see that we're not the savages
you think we are, then I will do that and
I will use my money to help the cause without
you knowing. And so both he and Lincoln did that. Unfortunately,
(22:17):
they got lumped up into this group of people like
with bilbo Jangles and had a mcdoniel where they would say, oh,
look what you're a butterfly, McQueen, look what you're doing,
not realizing that these black people broke the barrier and
took all the craps so that the new generation in
the sixties and seventies could come in, so that eighties great,
you know, so we can have the Denzel Washingtons we
(22:39):
have now without those folks breaking down and dealing with
what they had to deal with. And unfortunately, Stephen Fetchit's
name became a bad verb and really, and that man,
that man's story. That's the other one I want to do,
not me playing.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
World too, Yes, you said you.
Speaker 3 (23:00):
Koperry is the one.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
Now, let's have a moment of honesty here, sure, James Monroe,
I go heart.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
Yes, I saw that.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
You said originally you weren't even thinking about playing the
role of Lewis Armstrong. You just wanted to produce it,
be a part of it, a part of it. Now,
when did that change for you?
Speaker 3 (23:20):
Having a moment honest? Okay, the show is open, not
gonna be a little more honest. I was watching Ken
Burns Jazz and saw Louis Armstrong and thought that'd be
a great role to play. But unfortunately someone was already
playing the role, okay, and that was a person I knew,
and I'm not going to take a job from a brother, okay.
So I was like, look, anything I can do to
make the show as good as it can be. How
can I help? And then when the show closed, they
(23:43):
talked about recasting and that's when I said, well, let
me let me show you what I can do and
they were like, oh snap, and I was like, yeah,
that's this is what I do. And that's how it
came about.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
Because that iconic voice, how were you able to master that?
Speaker 3 (24:01):
A lot of work. It's like going to the gym.
The vocal cords is a muscle, and so I have
a wonderful vocal coach named Derick Rosenblad who helps me out.
And I also see my E and T twice a
month to make sure my chords are okay.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
Yeah, because that's a it's a lot.
Speaker 3 (24:14):
But also I'm thanks. My wife is the most understanding
woman in the world. I'm a hermit. When I go home,
I don't talk. I'm chilling that I just I just
relax and if I'm either getting ready for.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
The show, the same thing.
Speaker 3 (24:26):
Oh yeah, she knows. She's like, you know, I walk
in and she's like, should you be talking? I'm like,
I have something to say? What should you? Can you
write it down? Text me.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
All the us right?
Speaker 2 (24:39):
Can we get my man to play to train?
Speaker 4 (24:42):
Or is it not speaks not talk? No?
Speaker 3 (24:44):
Because but also she wed I made the joke before,
but she'll look at me sometimes. Should go listen money,
I mean, honey, you need to be quiet because you
have a job to do, because if I talk too much,
you know, to mess me up. But we've we when
I said I was going to do the role, we
had a deep conversation about how the how my life
and how our life was going to be. So even
the kids are like, pop, should you be talking? I'm like,
(25:05):
you're right quiet now.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
Look I want to ask you this, Tanya Lewis Lee,
when you were watching this, his last wife, his fourth wife, right,
she dealt with a lot from him. And I have
to say in the audience, I was watching like girl,
like you know how we are like don't So he
done went on the road, had a baby by somebody else, right,
But she took him back and.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
Forgave him and was like you're not going on the
road without me.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
For because when I was first watching it, and I
respect it now because it did work out. It could
have went either way, but you know, for us sitting there,
we're like, girl, really, but you know.
Speaker 4 (25:41):
It's so it's so interesting to me because I think
she probably she saw what could be. And by the way,
I love that scene where he comes and he's like
when they're like, okay, we're going to you to go
back out on the road, and Lewis was like, no,
I don't. I don't want to go because you know me,
he knows himself. And she's like, oh, honey, please know
way I'm letting you go by yourself anymore, and like
(26:02):
she is there for him and I think they really
built something. I'm watching this show on Netflix called Asura.
It's a Japanese show and it is about sort of
how infidelity infiltrates relationships and how women and families deal
with it in a kind of humorous way. And I
think just because someone is unfaithful doesn't mean a relationship
(26:28):
has to end. It's really about figuring out what's working
between you two and how you work through it and
what's the what's the commitment that you make to each
other and how do you move forward from that? You know,
And it seemed obviously they stayed married for thirty eight
years until he died.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
And it was a different day and age back then too,
you know exactly. Yeah, I feel like things have we
seen ease by you and even before that, we know,
it ain't like we had social media, right because let
me tell you, Louis Armstrong today would be sliding in
MD you you wouldn't believe.
Speaker 1 (26:59):
You know, I don't know if I had thirty eight
years when it lasted.
Speaker 4 (27:01):
Well, I always laugh because I say he's a jazz musician,
and you know, jazz musicians have that reputation and like I.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
SA right.
Speaker 3 (27:13):
True, But you know, he's also what I love about
Lewis was that he's he was very honest about his life.
And we had this we had this like this ongoing
message with the show was that we said, jazz is
about the choices you make in between the notes, and
so that's kind of how he lived his life. He's like,
(27:35):
are you okay with the choices that you made? And
if you're okay with those choices, and you've had a
wonderful world. And he knew that he made a lot
of mistakes, and he whenever it came to Lucille, he
owned up to them. He knew that she was the one.
He knew that the two women that he really really
messed up were Lil Hardened, and they became. The fun
(27:56):
part that we couldn't put in the show is Lil
Harden and Lewis stayed friends, and Lil Harden played at
his funeral, but she got the last laugh. She died
at his funeral. What Lil Harden had a heart attack
at his funeral, so he was it's his funeral, but
the story was about him. She stayed him, and that's
what I always thought. It was funny about them, but Lucille, it's.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
Like proposing at a wedding.
Speaker 3 (28:20):
Lucille was there for him, and he knew that the
one woman who had his back. And every interview you
see from the time time he gets older, he always.
Speaker 4 (28:30):
Well, my parents. I was talking to my parents this
weekend and they were talking about Oh yeah, I remember.
Whenever he was talking, he would always blow kisses at Lucille.
He was always talking about Lucille, Lucille, Lucille.
Speaker 3 (28:40):
Remember that every there's a there's a song where he
does there's the version of this. Sorry, there's a song
we have in our show and I've lost it because
I'm losing my mind constantly. But he in this recording
that there's that the recording of the song, he mentions Lucille.
He always made sure he talked about her because she
(29:00):
could have left right, and she decided he got it right,
and he never ever forgot because she also she could
have She did.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
By the house saying listen, you need a roof over
your head.
Speaker 3 (29:14):
So he knew, he knew, he knew where the real
life was and let her know.
Speaker 1 (29:19):
It was such a fascinating story.
Speaker 2 (29:21):
And you guys, the whole cast I was when I'm
watching it and I'm watching just even the choreography of
it singing, it was I was like, how are they
not falling off this thing? Like it was when I
tell you, incredible. There's not a moment that I felt like,
even the parts that were very interactive with the audience.
I love that, you know that we had the opportunity
to get involved and sing along. Although the crowd sounded
(29:43):
you know, yeah.
Speaker 3 (29:45):
You know, everybody came. Everybody, everybody can be a cuiet.
We're supposed to be involved.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
But no, it was amazing. So I just want to
say congratulations. I feel like, and this is coming to
a close on Broadway February twenty.
Speaker 1 (29:59):
Third, February twenty three, So how do Somebody was asking
me this, and I was like, I don't really know.
How do they decide?
Speaker 2 (30:05):
You know, because I know sometimes plays they they see
they extended, some of them ended.
Speaker 1 (30:11):
Up being on Broadway forever, are still there.
Speaker 4 (30:13):
But how do they go after two weeks?
Speaker 1 (30:15):
Yeah, I saw a couple of those.
Speaker 4 (30:17):
Yeah, well I think you know, it's it's a few things.
I mean, again, like I said earlier, you got to
get butts in the scenes or otherwise you're losing.
Speaker 1 (30:24):
It was packed. When I was there.
Speaker 3 (30:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (30:25):
Yeah, well I wish every night was like that. Unfortunately,
it's taken us a little while to find our audience.
And you know, with Broadway, you know, there could be
another show that's coming in and there's the theater behind us.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
And it's at Studio fifty four, which is iconic. Yeah yeah,
as wells.
Speaker 3 (30:41):
Thing to come there. And also, you know, Broadway goes
through waves and this is an interesting character and that's
another issue with it. You know, like we said, most
people know when they think of Louis Armstrong, they have
one thought. They don't think of like, you know, there's
a whole life that you don't know, right, and when
people come to see it, they're like, oh my god,
I had no idea. So with this was this was
(31:02):
a risk. We took one and I'm proud of the
risk that we took. And the people that have seen
it love it, and the people that are going to
see it are going to love it. And this this
will have a life afterwards. But this is just one
of those you know, unfortunate.
Speaker 2 (31:16):
To come back, you know, because you never know what
can happen, but you got to make sure you see it.
It's so good, like such a great date night situation.
A lot of my friends their first time going to
Burrowick was because I took them, you know, to a play,
which I love because everybody that goes is like, I
need to like come out more and go see plays more.
It really is such an experience. But this one is
(31:37):
really special.
Speaker 4 (31:38):
It's a fun show. And I have heard people say, oh, oh,
it's not what I expected. It's different from what I expected.
Speaker 2 (31:45):
Yeah, no, absolutely, I feel like movie, well, that's where
we really wanted to, you know, let people know the truth.
Speaker 3 (31:51):
Like, his story is really interesting, it's really fun and
you can get into it. So for those of you
who love jazz, this is a show for you. For
those of you who just really love the Real Housewives
or whatever city, this is the show for you. For
those of you who want to For those of you
who want a history lesson, this is the show for you.
For those shows. For those people who just want a
great musical with great music, great dancing, and just a
(32:12):
great showmanship, this is the show for you. We have
everything in our show, but we're also letting you know
one of the heroes of American music, and without him
and what he did, our music would not be what
it is today.
Speaker 2 (32:25):
Man, just hearing what a wonderful world after watching that
whole play and that final like it was, it just
was like, oh, it just summed it all up.
Speaker 4 (32:35):
And thinking about the world we're in now too, right
writing in this moment.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
You sitting it like dang, this happened. Then this is
happening again right now. And then I got to ask you, Tanya,
because you're always working. I know you had your children's books, documentaries,
things that are important to you, monster after Shock.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
What else are you working on right now?
Speaker 4 (32:53):
Well, I'm just I'm in the woodshed right now, so
I'm writing a couple of things and developing some projects.
So stay tuned. Twenty twenty five, Yeah, twenty twenty five
is a year of work. I'll let you know when
I'm ready to let you know.
Speaker 1 (33:06):
And for you, James, what's next for you?
Speaker 3 (33:09):
I am working on a brand new musical called The
funcn Teene Rapture, written by a friend of my name,
Lee Summers, and it's all about It's this wonderful nineteen
seventies funk fable about a young man named George Preston
who wants to learn to be a funk master. And
it's really funny and really fun and the music is
awesome and we're hoping people get down to it when
they do it. And for you people out there who
have little kids, if your children watch Disney Super Kiddies,
(33:31):
you'll probably hear my voices mister Puppy Pause or Disney's Kiff,
you'll hear my voices Martin, and so you know, I'm
usually around on somebody's children show.
Speaker 2 (33:38):
Well, thank you both so much. I really appreciate its pleasure.
Speaker 4 (33:41):
Thank you so much. Angela well
Way Up With Angela Yee News
Host
Angela Yee
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If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.