3 & Out - Best of - Xander wins the PGA Championship, Michael Lombardi, Will Fields start, Holdouts in SF

John recaps his best of the week by breaking down Xander's wire-to-wire win at the PGA Championship (5:40), his interview with Michael Lombardi (15:54), discussing if Justin Fields should be the start in Pittsburgh (50:51), and reacting to all the holdouts with the 49ers (1:01:15).

Follow John on Twitter, Instagram and YouTube for the latest. Check out Gametime - the fastest growing ticketing app in the US, and the official ticketing app of 3 & Out and GoLow -  for tickets to all of your favorite NFL, NBA, NHL, NCAA teams. Concert and comedy show tickets, too. Go to Gametime now to create an account, download the app and use code JOHN for $20 off your first purchase. #Volume #Herd

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
The volume. We are this close to crowning an NBA champ,
and with action heating up on the court, it's even hotter.
At Drafting Sportsbook, an official sports betting partner of the NBA,
there are only so many games left in Draftking Sportsbook
has you covered with same game parlays, live betting, odds,
boost and so much more. Don't miss out or you'll

(00:23):
have to wait until the next NBA season to place
your bets. It's super easy for first timers to get started.
Try betting on something simple like picking a team to win.
Go to DraftKings Sportsbook app, select your squad and place
your first bet. It's that simple. New to DraftKings listen up.
New customers can get a no sweat bet up to

(00:43):
fifteen hundred bucks. Just deposit at least five bucks and
you'll get a bonus bet back equal to your first
bet if it doesn't hit. Download the Draftking Sportsbook app
now and use the code Jawn. That's code Joha for
new customers to get a no sweat bet up to
fifteen hundred bucks. If your first bet doesn't hit, only

(01:06):
on Draftking the Crown is.

Speaker 2 (01:08):
Yours gambling problem called one eight hundred gambler or in
West Virginia, visit one eight hundred gambler dot net. In
New York, call eight seven seven eight hope and why,
or text hope and why four six seven three sixty nine.
In Connecticut, help is available for problem gambling call eight
eight eight seven eight nine seven seven seven seven or
visit CCPG dot org. Please play responsibly on behalf of
Boothill Casino when resorting Kansas twenty one and over age

(01:31):
varies by jurisdiction, Void and Ontario. Bonus bets expire one
hundred and sixty eight hours after issuance. See DKNNG dot
co slash bball for eligibility and depositor restrictions, terms and
responsible gaming resources.

Speaker 1 (01:53):
We got a little Memorial Day weekend best of comment
for you. You'd like to put some of our favorite
top together and throw him your way. Xander Shockley finally
gets over the hump, wins a major is no longer
considered the best player without a trophy next to his name.

Speaker 3 (02:16):
That matters.

Speaker 1 (02:18):
Michael Lombardi, former NFL executive, joined us. We talked a
lot of football. He's a fellow podcaster now as well.
Justin Fields said he's ready to compete and doesn't plan
on sitting all season long. Hard to blame him, because
I think this year for him could be a great

(02:39):
opportunity Pittsburgh's win now mode. If Russell Wilson struggles early,
insert justin fields and we got a couple issues in
San Francisco, a couple of wide receivers holding out. McCaffrey
is either just laying low, getting ready to get married,
or maybe he wants a little more money. So we

(03:00):
will dive into some football topics. Appreciate everyone listening. Subscribe
to the podcast. All this stuff is on YouTube, little
old website. Just type in the name John Middlecoff three
and out go load whatever and you can find all
of our content right there. Obviously, got to tell you
about my friends and my partners at game time. Just
download the app they are the official ticketing app of

(03:24):
this podcast, and buy a pair of tickets to anywhere college,
pro concerts, comedy shows. It does not get any easier.
If you want to go do something Memorial Day weekend,
you're feeling a little left out, You're like, God, I'm
just sitting at home. I want to get out of
the house. I want to go to an event in
the near future, we'll do it and do it on

(03:46):
us because right now, just download the game Time app,
create an account, and redeem first time purchases with promo
code John saves you twenty dollars off. Doesn't get any easier.
Just download that app game Time promo code John.

Speaker 3 (04:08):
Off.

Speaker 1 (04:09):
Let's talk some sports, you know. I could start with
Scotty though it's been a couple of days, but we
will dive into it because that was just a lot
to the golf tournament. But last week when Xander Schaffley
got curb stomped on Sunday by Rory, so many people
and listen, I consume people often ask me like, what

(04:29):
football podcast do you listen to. I'm like, I don't
really listen to many football podcasts. I actually listen to
a lot more golf podcasts. And I think sometimes the
golf media, like any media that covers a sport, sometimes
can be a little too close to the sun. I
think they were definitely early on with the live stuff
a lot with this golf rollback which is gonna happen,

(04:50):
and I think they struggle to just take it from
the consumer standpoint, just the majority of people that enjoy
watching golf on their couch that go out and hack
it around a little bit, and Xander got crucified last week.
Choke artists never gonna win, can't get it done. Rory
shot like sixty under on Sunday. There is not a
soul maybe Tiger Woods in his prime that would have

(05:14):
had a chance against that version. And I understand Xander
has not won a major up until today, but the
way he was talked about like he's some complete choke artist,
and I was like, I don't know if I really
see that. We have definitely seen some people in golf
choke over the years, and obviously Xander has had some
moments that he would like back. There's a famous one

(05:35):
against Hedeki, which again, even if he doesn't fuck up
on whole sixteen at the Masters, not sure he wins
that tournament. But they mentioned today on the broadcast, and
if you go to his Wikipedia page and you type
in performance in majors, he has yellows all over it.
Why because you get a yellow for a top ten.
Coming into today, he had twelve top tens and majors

(05:58):
he had six top fives, So in the biggest moments
in a sport, where let's face it, a lot of
guys let you down. This guy constantly shows up. Is
he Tiger Woods? Is he Phil Mickelson, Is he Rory
or Scottie? No, he's not, but he is clearly by
a mile, one of the best players on the PGA Tour,

(06:20):
I would say now for three or four years running.
And here's the thing. In golf, it is not like
the team sports that we all watch. This is not
football or basketball. Today the Knicks had two options. They
could win or they could lose. Obviously they got destroyed,
but they didn't have an option. Well, we finished third,
We did okay. In golf, that's not you don't win

(06:41):
or you lose. So when you're constantly rattling off seconds
and thirds, even last week when Rory destroyed him on Sunday,
he beat everyone else in the field, which next year,
Quail Hollow is hosting a major, And Quail Hollow don't
blame you if he didn't watch, but I did a
lot of it was playing dramatically harder than this week.

(07:01):
He beat everybody on the in the field beside Rory
by three shots. Why he made two point six million dollars.
So when you watch Xander Schoffley and I texted a
couple buddies this when he was walking up to the
putt on eighteen. I think he makes this because I
wasn't that confident. We'll get into Bryson here in a minute.
If he makes this like this, guy's gonna be a

(07:23):
multiple time major champion, multiple time. And it's I always
enjoy in this sport when a guy like Steve Young
once famously said in the ninety five Super Bowl to
Gary Plumber, take the monkey off my back. The reason
there was a monkey on Steve's back all those years,
one he was trying to live up to Joe Montana.

(07:45):
And two it's hard to win a Super Bowl. It's
hard to get it done. But anyone that watched Steve Young,
like I did when I was a kid, and I
used to argue with my dad a lot about this,
like Steve just as good as Joe, even though I
never really watched Joe play, and I was probably wrong.
But the point is, like Steve's a championship level player.
It's gonna happen if you watch Xander long enough, which

(08:06):
everyone in the golf media does, like that's a championship
level player, we've all seen some random champions like Scottie, Scheffler,
Rory and Tiger don't win every major, and it was
just cool to watch him get it done. And the
shot he hit on eighteen. We've all, I mean most
of us more than most are hitting it all over

(08:27):
the place on any golf round, so we have a
lot of, you know, approach shots like the one he
had on eighteen where his golf ball was outside of
the sand trap and his feet were probably three or
four feet below the ball, and let's face it, most
of us, even good players, chunk it, flare it way left,

(08:48):
do something really bad. I think obviously the chip shot
and the putt will be, you know, the putt will
be so far his most memorable moment of his career.
But I think that shot from the bunker is the
best shot of his career given what was on the line.
And as he mentioned the nance once he was hosting

(09:11):
the trophy and kind of giving his speech to Amanda
on the eighteenth green, is like I didn't want to
go into a playoff against Bryson because let's face it,
if he went into a playoff against Bryson, we all
would have thought Bryson was gonna win. And if that
had taken place in some hypothetical world, what are you
supposed to say, Yeah, he lost to Bryson. You know,

(09:31):
a guy that's won the US Amateur, won the US Open,
been winning tournaments for about fifteen years now, at every level,
and is easily one of the best players of his generation.
But I'm glad Xander got this done, so we can
stop talking about like he's never gonna get it. That's
not usually the way it works, especially when you just
look at it from like a statistical standpoint. If you

(09:53):
put yourself in the mix as often as he does,
you're bound to win one. The reality is, when you're
as talented as Xander, you're probably bound to win several
because Phil Mickelson, who's a better player obviously than Xander,
and even if Xander, you know, takes the most advantage
possible of his career, will not end up with the

(10:16):
resume of Phil Mickelson. But Xander had twelve top tens
in majors before he finally won one Phil at seventeen.
So when you're in the mix that often eventually something's
gonna fall your way. When you're that good, you're that long,
and you've had and you've just been in these moments
that many times. It's why as the cream started rising

(10:39):
as today went, you know, the two guys who were
in the mix the most kind of were there when
the dust settled. Okay, here with longtime NFL executive and

(11:00):
an author because he is writing books left and right,
Football Done Right, Gridiron genius, and I'm pretty sure he's
typing as we speak on something new. Michael Lombardi, How
are you doing.

Speaker 3 (11:13):
I'm great. No, I'm in a little bit of a
research phase. You know. I loved doing the research on
Football Done Right. That was a lot of fun. I
learned a lot about things I didn't know, you know.
And so this next book is kind of in the
early formula of stages. It's going to be about the

(11:33):
last five years from twenty fourteen to twenty nineteen at
the Patriots, when they went to three, they won three
Super Bowls, went to four, lost the conference championship game.
I think you have to go back to the early
to the mid seventies of the Steeler dynasty to have
five of those really productive seasons that they had. So

(11:54):
I'm doing a lot of research on that, and it's
probably going to be at least two years before that
thing comes out. But it's fun to do the research,
go back and relive each year.

Speaker 1 (12:04):
I know you you are a football historian, and I,
while I'm younger, I get offended sometimes when like younger
analysts or former players act like some of these guys
from back in the day couldn't play now. I remember
being a GA at Fresno State and meeting me and
Joe Green and Mike you know him. I mean, his

(12:24):
hands are big as a as a grizzly bear. If
you think that guy wouldn't dominate today, or you know,
going to Warriors games and meeting Jerry West. He's not
six two guys, I mean he's six eight. He'd be fine.

Speaker 3 (12:37):
Now, yeah, we have we don't appreciate it. But a
wht of that, John is the league doesn't really do
enough job of highlighting some of these guys you know
that were great. You know, we tend to think everything's
great today, and like, you know, you use the example
of Joe Green. I mean, Joe Green played at a
time where the three technique, the nose tackle, those guys

(12:58):
were really the dominant D defensive Lineman, whether in Merlin Olsen,
whether it was you know, Bob Lilly. You know, every
team had a tackle that could play the run but
could also rush the passer, and they were developing that.
And I think we've lost a little bit of that luster,
you know, because you know, the game shift a little bit,
you know, Alan Page, you know, you know, I mean,

(13:21):
Larren Sapp was one of the elite players. I think
people tend to forget that, as great as he was.
So yeah, I don't think we do a good enough
job in some of the coaches too. I don't think
we give them enough credit. And I think that one
of the things I've learned over my career, A lot
of things I've learned is is the answers to most
problems are in the past. Everybody thinks that, you know,

(13:42):
there's going to be some new formation or some new
element or some new design, when you know, the nickel defense,
as I wrote about in Football Done Right, was invented
by Buddy Parker, who can't get in the Hall of Fame.
The two minute offense and defense was invented by Buddy Parker,
who can't get in the Hall of Fame, and he
won two titles with the Detroit Lions. So a lot
of it too is we don't honor those, you know,

(14:04):
like Buddy Parker was up for a vote this year
and didn't get in, And like I wrote about in Gridiron,
we don't have a criteria for it, like we have
no criteria for what's who's a Hall of Fame coach?
We have a subjective criteria. He is or he isn't.
If I were to say to you, you know, is
Pete Carroll a Hall of Fame coach? People would say, well,
he won a super Bowl? But you know, I don't know.

(14:26):
Pete Carroll shirrely is an NFL He's as you know,
He's won a Super Bowl, he had a high winning percentage,
he took his team to the playoffs, he lost to
Super Bowl. You know, but there's so many different you know,
everybody you know, George Allen's in the Hall of Fame
didn't win a Super Bowl, only coach ten years, seventy
percent winning percentage, and Mike Holmgreen can't get in. Like
it makes no sense, which is probably why most of

(14:48):
the people that vote for the Hall of Fame didn't
read Football Done Right.

Speaker 1 (14:52):
It's funny how the league changes. When when I was
in the league, you know, a third down back was
you know, just an extra piece guy that could quote
unquote catch the ball or the nickel corner was just
kind of a throwing guy who could play in more
of a confined area and had to be able to
stop the run. Now, if you can't catch the ball
out of the backfield, you're not on a roster, right

(15:13):
if you if you don't have multiple nickel corners, you've
got no chance. We talk a lot about where things
are going because the rule changes are not going to
be rolled back to physicality. Would you argue it's only
going to become more and more spread out.

Speaker 3 (15:29):
Well, I think spread outs also creates problems. Like let's
talk about Chicago for a second. Right, they drafted Doomsday
in the first round. You know, they don't have a
really elite three technique, they don't have an elite inside player,
but they chose to go with another receiver who's going
to play in the slot. I think, you know, we
no longer define anything by downs. Everything's by personnel groupings,

(15:50):
and so when you want to spread people out, your
tackles have to be really good, Like Darnell Wright, the
first round pick, tent pick overall two years ago. He's
got to be a really good player. They're going to
be able to do that, you know, if he's the
right tackle and who's the left tackle in Chicago. So
the more you spread, the more vulnerability you put on
the quarterback, the more ability the system has to give

(16:11):
the quarterback answers. I'm not sure that that every every
coordinator has that solve. You know, there's always a beater somewhere.
I just feel like, you know, I feel like the
game is going to go back to being more under center.
I think it's going to come back to a little
bit of an older school mentality, and only because I
think it'll allow more balance within the framework of the offense.

(16:32):
You mentioned nickelbacks. Look, when I first started in the league,
it was the back's criteria was run, catch, block. We
graded a running back like we didn't grade, you know,
Barry Sanders on his blocking ability. We graded him on
his running, you know. But today a running back is
block first. If you can't pass protect, you're not playing.

(16:55):
You're just not playing. Catch and run. Running is the
left thing the back does because you can't put him
on the field if he doesn't catch it if he
doesn't lock. So I think you have to stay in
tuned to that, and we have we're moving away from
from first down, second and third down to what personnel
groups on the field. So when you draft the Doomsay,

(17:15):
you're saying to everybody, we're going to be an eleven
team because you got Keenan Allen and you've got DJ Moore.
And if a Dooonsay standing next to ebra Flus did it,
was it really work? The first pick and overall the
eighth pickover all ninth pick. So I think you have
to think of it that way.

Speaker 1 (17:29):
You know, last time I talked to you, your son
was working for the Raiders, and uh, he now works
for the forty nine ers. And I know you've talked
about back when you worked in Cleveland the second time
and you interviewed Kyle Shanahan for the offensive coordinator position,
you were blown away. You're like, this guy could be
our head coach.

Speaker 3 (17:45):
Should have been Yeah.

Speaker 1 (17:46):
Yeah, So you talk about old school football. Obviously the
Harbab Brothers or throwback group. I would say Kyle for
being a quote unquote younger coach is definitely a throwback.
His mentality, Uh, so far, your and your son that
experience being around that operation. I heard you talking about this,
and it's been well reported that Kyle tapes everything, so

(18:08):
every meeting room is videoed and has a life. He
can listen to everything from his office, which you know,
I think around the league people be like what, but
he just wants to know what's going on, and everyone
says it's actually works very well. Everyone's on the same page.
How's your son's experience been so far.

Speaker 3 (18:25):
I think it's been great. He's been really blessed in
his career. You know, he starts with Belichick and learns personnel,
and then he you know, works with Jim Harball. Then
he comes back at the Jets, and then he goes
back with Bill, with Josh McDaniels. He knows that system,
and now he's with Kyle. Look, that taping thing started
with Walsh back in nineteen eighty six. I was taping.

(18:45):
I can still remember John Twitting watching Bill install the
game plan when we were getting ready to go back
to New York and play the Giants in a playoff game.
And I was up there taping it and Coach was
going over who we were going to attack the secondary
how we were going to tackle, and you know, Herbie
Walsh was a safety. We were going to really go

(19:06):
after a UCLA safety. And the first, I think the
second play of the game, we run a slant with
Jerry Rice, who gets one on one with Herbie, makes
them mistres like coach said he would do in the tape,
and then he fumbles the ball when he changes it
from one hand to the other and it goes through
the end zone and then we got off to a
forty nine to three ass kicking. But that taping was
really important because it allowed coaches and allowed players to

(19:30):
if they missed a meeting or they missed something in
a meeting, they go back and watch it, and it
really kept things in tune. And I think it's really important.
As I mentioned on my podcast, if I were back
in the league, I would take every personnel meeting everyone.
I would take draft Day and I would go back
and watch draft Day again because there's so many things
that happened that our memories have a different way of

(19:52):
going through it. Like what I think about I just
mentioned Warren Sap, but I think about the Warren Sap
Draft about you know, we're sitting there at the ninth
pick in the first round. We're talking about taking you know,
Kyle Brady at the tight end because we needed one
and we had moved up, and you know, and Brady
goes right in front of us after you know, the
Jets took Johnny Mitchell the year before, they come back

(20:13):
and take Brady the next year. And so there we
are sitting with Warren sat and we have this huge trade,
Like I would have loved to have seen that, just
to go through it. And then later when we moved down,
we made a great trade. We moved down to the
bottom of the first we're debating between Curtis Martin and
and a linebacker at Craig Pound from Ohio State, and
the rationale how we got to it that horrible mistake

(20:36):
and we take Martin a twenty seven, twenty eight whatever
it was. We would have gotten the Hall of Fame back.
Instead we got a guy that didn't play. And you know,
and that those are the things you need to analyze.
And I think people get so caught up with well,
you're just looking a second guests, No, you're looking to learn.
You know.

Speaker 1 (20:53):
It's funny the draft happens and there's so much hype
around the high picks. And I remember being a training
camp Parties rookie year and obviously because of his draft status,
they just kind of inserted Trey Lance as the starter.
But you could tell Kyle was a little uncomfortable and
the players were uncomfortable. And this little guy he's taking
third string reps, is just making plays and in the games,

(21:14):
in the preseason games, he was and I understand it
was second half preseason, but he made he was good,
and he made the team and kind of the rest
is history. You know, Jared Goff just got a massive contract. Yeah,
and if you look at the numbers, you know, I mean,
parties in line, like, you know, talk to your son

(21:35):
how much they value this guy and the emotional maturity
and obviously his physical gifts. But Jared Goff can't move
and he doesn't have the biggest arm. What do you
think is the reason for brock Purty's success is simply Kyle.
I've defended him, and I know you have to just
watch the guy play. I mean, he's a really good player.

Speaker 3 (21:53):
He's got great instincts, his arms tied to his feet.
He you know, he can anticipate throws. Look, you use
the word. You know, they trust them, but just watch
the tape. I mean, you watch the tape. They allow
him to do things within the framework of that offense
that shows they have confidence in his ability to make
the place. They're not calling place to protect them. I

(22:15):
think we don't do you know, you haven't scouted, probably
see this as I see it. But so many times
during gains, the announcers don't understand that the coach is
protecting the quarterback, not being conservative. There's a huge difference
between that. You know, earlier in the year, Matt Lafleur
was protecting Jordan Love. By the end of the year,

(22:36):
he was allowing them to play in the game. And
so there's a difference between how they call the game
of what they do. And I think that you can
see from Kyle's play calling they're not protecting this kid
at all. They're letting them play and they should because
he's really good. You know, we just have a hard time.
There's there's certain movements that I can't explain. You know,
there's the justin Fields movement that has created the sensation

(22:58):
in the NFL that no matter bet or you know,
how you look at the evidence, even on the analytical side.
You can't get people to believe that he's not a
great quarterback yet and there's no evidence that he is.
He's won ten games. And then there's the Trey Lance
conglomerate that just keeps going that nobody wants to buy
into that. You know, he's not a rhythm thrower. And

(23:22):
I don't understand how brock Purdy isn't like Kurt Warner
or a great success story. But for some reason, nobody
wants to acknowledge brock perty except for the forty nine ers.

Speaker 1 (23:32):
I think the moment you don't get drafted high, especially
way down, you know, in the fifth, sixth, seventh round,
no one wants to embrace you. People forget People talk
Brady early, well, early on in his career. Remember he
was not as good as Peyton, even though it was
pretty clear early like the guy was pretty good. You know,
if Trey Lance had done what Brock Perdy did his

(23:53):
first couple of years, we'd be talking about him like
the next John Elway.

Speaker 3 (23:56):
Oh my god, we'd be'd be it'd be a would be.
It would be tim t go nausea. It would be
over the top, I mean, you know, I mean it
would be brutal. We'd have to read about it every
single day, just like we have to read about that
Miami signed Odell Beckham and Stefan Diggs is in Houston,
like they're getting the career. They're getting two players that
you know, we don't turn the clock back. We just

(24:17):
think they're still great.

Speaker 1 (24:19):
Jordan Love. You know, the second half of the season,
it's hard. You watch them, You're like, holy shit. But
from a financial standpoint, my take has always been I
would play it another couple of months. I'd have no
problem extending him during the season, but I'd like to
see a little more before we just give some enormous
contract on a really really short body of work. What

(24:43):
would be your approach if you were running the Packers
when it came to because you might be able to
get him on quote unquote a little discount if you
threw a lot of money on him, But if it
didn't go well and he took a step back, you'd
be in a little trouble.

Speaker 3 (24:55):
Well, you know, you have him this year, and you
got the franchise tech next year, so you have him
for two years at you know, whatever number you want
them at, right, So you got them at this year
because they redid the they redid the fifth year, and
then you then you have the franchise number. And let's
be clear. You know, if Golf's getting fifty three million,
you know, then what's Prescott going to get? You know

(25:15):
what is you know what what's the next guy in
line going to get?

Speaker 1 (25:19):
You know?

Speaker 3 (25:20):
And well Purty, you know all of them. I Purty's
got two more years that he can't touch his contract,
you know, so he got two more years. Plus they
have a franchise number they can get Purty. So they
got essentially three years built in there to get a contract.
And it's only going to go up. But look, let's
face it, the revenue streams are going up too. I
think I would be rather patient, but I see enough

(25:42):
of love that you believe that he's going to be
a good player. I don't think it's about the scoreboard.
I think it's about really, if you're Brian Guducus, is
you want to be able to see one of the
Walls quotes, which is the second year the players in
the system, he becomes better, That's what Mikyler Murray, Right,
Kyler Murray's second year, he didn't really get better. He

(26:04):
had the really good beat where he's running around making
a lot of plays on loose plays. But once people
started to rush him the right way where they didn't
let their ends run up the field, where they closed
the pocket down, they forced him to his left if
he had to get out, then all of a sudden
he wasn't the same player. And so I think what
you want to see is is what steps the love

(26:24):
take the second year is in the system. And once
you see that, then I don't think you should hold back.
You should go.

Speaker 1 (26:31):
Okay, a couple of things on the draft, do you
think the Patriots? Clearly they you know, we're very dead
set on taking a quarterback. But we're even more validated
when Brian Davel, who worked with Josh Allen and then
Kevin O'Connell both really wanted Drake May that it's you
can't make that move as a personnel guy if you
already liked the guy, and those are the two guys
that really like your guy as well, it's a no brainer.

(26:52):
You just sick there, no matter that. I mean, you're
getting offered eleven twenty three in the future one that
is a lot.

Speaker 3 (26:58):
It is, but you know, now the Giants claim, and
they were trying to trade up to get Joe all
I mean, but then they made no attempt to trade
with the Cardinals to get it. It's unbelievable, like they think
we're actually stupid. You know. Look, I think they were
going to pick them, whether Brian liked him or not.
I think that if you know Elliott and you know
his background, size, speed, you know those are the things.

(27:20):
I mean, May's and tangibles, he'll work hard. You know.
Sometimes the job of a scout is to see what
other people don't. And if you just grade production, then
that's one thing, but you have to be able to
see and visualize something moving forward. And I didn't see
maybe what Elliott saw as deeply in May where Brian did,

(27:41):
or Dave Ball did, or Kevin O'Connell did. But I
think to me that was going to be to pick
no matter if they wanted them or not. There was
no way they could trade that. There wasn't an The
alternative would have been McCarthy, and they had no way
of knowing they could get McCarthy. You end up being
like a boat out at sea and you without accomplish
you don't know if you can get back so let's

(28:02):
hypothetically say they went to eleven. Right now, you know
that nobody had any thought that Atlanta was going to
take Pennox at eight, and so now you're trying to
get back to get you what happens if you come
out of there with all these picks and no quarterback?
Where are you?

Speaker 1 (28:16):
Did you see the clip going viral of Jade Daniels
and Drake May both throwing basically the same seam route
and Jaden's ball was almost in the guy's hands before
Drake because of his loopy release, kind of got rid
of it. And it's just and I'm all four taking
a big swing on a project, but now you have
the project and kind of have to fix it. I
mean part of Josh Allen the project or Patrick Mahomes

(28:37):
was then that period of time of developing them. And
you look at the Patriots you go, well, new regime.
This coach was doing media five years ago. He's a
linebacker seven years ago. I mean, it's this is going
to be a big, big time challenge for that organization
with this player, is it not?

Speaker 3 (28:54):
Well? The other thing is too, is you know when
you bring Patrick Mahomes into it, right, you knew that
Andy Reid was going to be the guy that was
detailing the player development of Patrick Mahomes. But in New England,
the detailed player development is coming from Alex van Pelt
and what happens see, I don't think we asked this
question enough. What has to be true for this to

(29:15):
be for this to be successful, what has to be
true for Drake may to be a great player. And
part of what has to be true is Alex van
Pelt has to do a really good job of development
in this fundamentals, techniques and getting him groved into the offense.
That has to be true, because if he doesn't, then
he's going to be all over the board. That's the challenge,

(29:36):
right And so because Mayo doesn't coach offense, defense, or
the kicking game, that he just is basically in charge
of the team. You could potentially see a new offensive
coordinator if things don't go well in a year or two,
and now where are you? And now you're changing things again.
That's why player development is so reliant upon who the

(29:56):
head coaches and what the systems are. And when you're
high hiring coaches to put their system in and the
organization doesn't have one. Then you you have a lot
of propensity to make mistakes.

Speaker 1 (30:10):
I thought one of the most laughable pre draft kind
of conversations was the Chargers taking a wide receiver. It's like,
have any of you guys watched this guy operate for
fifteen years, Larry? He might have passed on Larry Fitzgerald
or Calvin Johnson if they were there, if he thought
the offensive lineman was good enough, especially in this wide
receiver class. I just don't think Pete like we've all

(30:30):
watched him win big without superstar wide. When's the last
time Michigan had a star wide receiver?

Speaker 3 (30:36):
Right?

Speaker 1 (30:36):
Well, he won to San Francisco with fifty year old
Randy Moss.

Speaker 3 (30:40):
Look, Bill Wall said, the last position he checked on
your team as the wide receiver position. He's in the
Hall of Fame.

Speaker 1 (30:45):
Has that changed a little bit though, you think?

Speaker 3 (30:47):
No, I don't think it's changed at all. I mean,
look at look at green Bay. Look at green Bay.
Who's got a better receiving core than green Bay has?
I mean, think about it. You know everybody says, well
the quarterback, you know, the receivers make the quarterback. Green
Bayed receiver room, that's pretty freaking good, you know, and
so they're the least amount of money spent on wide
receivers in the league. You know, they don't seem to

(31:09):
have a problem throwing the football. I don't think it's
changed at all. I think it's re enhanced itself because
the offensive lineman is so critical. Look, everybody sits there
and says, you know, the receiver makes the quarterback. Now.
I know Armont he was a fifth round pick. He
got paid a lot of money. But you know, you
tell me how great the receivers are on Detroit. They're good.
Hockinson's good. I mean, they're good. They got players, don't

(31:31):
get me wrong. But the reality of the situation is
is that they are. I mean, the floor more tightlport
that they get you know, they get open, they make plays,
the golf gets them the ball. I don't think it's changed.
I mean, look again, if you're Chicago and you can't
protect Caleb Williams, if he's going to get hit and

(31:53):
you're an eleven, I don't understand it. But look, you
get applauded if you take a wide receiver today. Because
most of the people doing the clapping are Madden fans.
They want to play in their it's a Madden game
when the game is won by the teams that can
win the line. I mean, Kansas City's traded Tyreek Hill.
They've won two Super Bowls. Nobody talks about it. I

(32:14):
mean people are talking about Kansas City is going to
go back and they're going to win another super Bowl
and like they act like, oh, well they got this
great receiving room. No they don't. They got Patrick Mahomes.
That's the receiving room.

Speaker 1 (32:27):
People ask me a lot, is there anything with the
Rice situation that the Chiefs could have done? And I said, well,
this isn't college. The moment the season ends, you got
some time. And this goes back to the draft where
you got to feel comfortable with the player. It's not
like they can hold his hand in March, April and
even early May if he's not around the facility. What's

(32:51):
your thoughts on just that situation. When you get a
player with some question marks in the past, the moment
the season ends, you kind of just hold onto your ass.

Speaker 3 (32:59):
Well, they been lucky with this John, They've been really
lucky with it. They take Tyreek Kill when he was
on nobody's board. I mean, maybe he might have been
on Reggie McKenzie's board at the Raiders. I think that
was the only other team he was on their board.
Because of his behavior at Oklahoma State got thrown out.
He couldn't get roll an accron, couldn't enroll at West Alabama,
but he got drafted by the Chiefs. You know, Kelsey
had some issues in terms of off the field, which

(33:21):
obviously were wrong, but they took him in the third round, right,
you know, And they've been able Chris Jones. The only
reason he's the second round pick is because some people
thought he wasn't a hard you know, all the things
off the field. They've been very fortunate of how they've
built their team of managing this and it's a credit
to them. And so you know, whatever Rice is within

(33:42):
his background was probably there at SMU, and they chose
that they felt that they could deal with it. Now,
you know, if they don't have Rice, I mean they
take Tony and give up a draft pick. Now Tony,
you know, Tony's a guy that again, does he love football?
Is he going to make their rooms? So now you've
got Hollywood as their receiver, and you got Worthy, who's
one hundred and sixty pounds. Is he going to be

(34:04):
a full time player? And he got Kelsey at thirty
six years old. You tell me that receiving room is
really good. Hollywood. Brown's always been talked about as being
a number one guy, but he's never produced that way
at all.

Speaker 1 (34:15):
I think they are a defensive team, now, right.

Speaker 3 (34:18):
That's right, that's right, That's exactly right they are. And
that's the point of this conversation is is that they've
changed who they are. They're going to win up front.
You know, they have a huge, huge question market left tackle,
but they're going to get Pajeco more. I mean, Pachecko
was carrying about seven more times in the playoffs. After
the Christmas Day game, Pacheco's load management increased by seven

(34:39):
carries a game compared to earlier in the year.

Speaker 1 (34:44):
Locker room dynamics. I know something you being around Bill
Forever talked a lot about something that Falcons clearly didn't value.
And Bill, we've all talked a lot about the Cousin
situation from a financial standpoint, but from a locker room standpoint,
he can't practice in OTAs. Who's out there taking the
reps with a bunch of young, impressionable offensive skill guys Pennix.

(35:06):
Pennix is not some project. He's like a six year
starter in college football. The locker room dynamics and cousins,
the high character guy who's historically a little sensitive. Doesn't
this have the chance to get really weird, really fast internally,
no matter what Raheem Morris can do to talk to
the guys.

Speaker 3 (35:25):
Yeah, I mean, I think to me, it's about the quarterbacks.
Personality has to come out in the team. It's in
Kansas City, it's in Cincinnati, it's in Buffalo, right, and
so you know, I think there's no question that it's
hard to have two leaders. I mean, Walsh did this
in San Francisco. Remember he rotated Steve Young and Joe Montana,
and finally Ronnie Lott went to him and said, Bill,

(35:46):
we need a starter, we need one guy, we need
to know who were counting on. And he went with
Montana and he trained him after the next season. So yeah,
this never has worked having two quarterbacks. And no matter,
everybody thinks the second quarterbacks than the first, and most
arenas I mean, you know, I'm sure, I'm sure you
know the backup quarterback is probably most people at the

(36:07):
Giants think Tommy of the Veto might be better than
py Dot Daniel Jones. I don't, but I'm just saying that,
you know there could be. So you just created a
situation and then you didn't have It's two years in
a row. Now you don't help your defense at all. Like,
are you watching the NFL? Are you watching the NFL?
Do you study the NFL to understand what wins games?

(36:30):
You know? Forget about you know, you draft a running
back who's a really good player, but you had you
had Algier there average five yards of character. You didn't
need another running back. Now, I'm sure they're gonna blame
Arthur Smith for this, but the reality of it this
is you passed a legitimately great three technique, a legitimately
great three technique Jalen Carter. Now you live right down
the street from them. If you don't, if you didn't

(36:51):
like his character, because you know more about that anybody. Okay,
maybe that's the case, but I'm not sure that that is.
And then this year you pass you know, you passed
off to where you passed Byron Murphy. I mean those
are two legitimate defensive front guys. So now you're saying
you're twenty ninth in the National Football League and forcing
turnovers last year, and you're just one player away. Kirk

(37:13):
Cousins is going to fix all that for you, and
you take Michael Pennix. I mean, where's the team building here?

Speaker 1 (37:19):
You know, the Jets and the Giants have been mainly
terrible for the last decade plus. Obviously, John Marr is
an impressive guy, but it's safe to say he got
pretty heavily involved when it came to Daniel Jones. There
was a story recently about the Jets wanted to hire
a guy over Nathaniel Hackett. To me, a coach or GM,
if you want a new offensive coordinator, you would just
fire your offensive coordinator hire a guy that feels like
a Woody Johnson problem. Do you think the New York

(37:42):
teams have an owner meddaling issue right now?

Speaker 3 (37:46):
Well, I think the Jets clearly do. I mean when
he came when Woody Johnson came out and said that,
you know, we're about trading Zach Wilson and he had
comments on all that, Yeah, I do. I think they have.
The Jets are different in the sense that they were
trying to manage a problem. They're trying to make everybody happy.
They were trying to make their offense happy by hiring
somebody over Aaron over over Nathaniel Hackett. But but make

(38:11):
Aaron Rogers happy, why not fire Nathaniel Hackett? And you can't.
Nobody gets made happy anywhere. The Giants, I think have
just been John has run the team. I've been saying
this forever. And I like John. John's a really nice man,
a genuinely nice human being. But I think it's a
family run business, and I think they have a hard

(38:32):
time of being objective about what they're doing, and they
fall in love with players. And when they gave Daniel
Jones that money last year for no reason other than
the vindication of that they drafted them sixth overall, was
a mistake. I mean, if you go back and ask
one simple question, why do we win and why do

(38:52):
we lose? The Giants when they went to the playoffs
didn't win because Daniel Jones was good. They won because
they managed the game. They won in three dimensions. They
played good offense and defense, cookicking get but he didn't
carry the team. He didn't carry the team whatsoever. And
who was going to sign him to that contract anyway?

Speaker 1 (39:10):
Who were you competing against nobody. I think if they
got a redo, you would have to give Saquon Barkley
an extension because the running backs make such little money.
It might have been thirty five million guaranteed franchise Daniel
Jones and you would have been off it this year,
and you would have still had the dynamic player at
a relatively cheap price because of the you know, the
deflation in running back contracts, and be rid of Daniel

(39:33):
Jones instead. If you're stuck with this contract, I don't
know about you. My I think they're gonna be pretty bad.
I mean, I think they're going to really struggle. They
don't have a quarterback.

Speaker 3 (39:43):
You and I both know that. You know, somebody's going
to have a high pick next year, right, I mean
not everybody's going ten and seven. Somebody's going to be bad.
And look when you go through it. I had this
in my notes here. You know, when you go through
all the quarterback in the you know, when you look
at Daniel Jones's inability to throw the ball down the field,

(40:05):
which has been horrible. Right, He's never averaged John, He's
never averaged over over seven yards per tent in his career.
He's never averaged over seven yards per attempt in his career.
So you're asking a he doesn't throw the ball down
the field, and there's a thousand reasons why he can't
throw the ball down the field. But you can't win

(40:29):
with a quarterback who won't throw the ball. It's one
of my biggest concerns that I was a huge, huge
I was a huge Trevor Lawrence fan. But Lawrence doesn't
throw the ball up the field either. It's a huge concern.
But one of the things is Lawrence Sharp put this
out and you know this is based off of clutch
quarterbacks with the last five minutes since two thousand, okay,

(40:51):
and you have to have at least forty five minimum
attempts in this category. And when you go through it,
I mean, Daniel Jones is forty second out of fifty six.
Davis Mills is actually ahead of them, Mac Jones is
ahead of them. You know, Mike Glennon, Andy Dalton's ahead
of him, Carson Wentz is ahead of him, Kenny Pickett's

(41:13):
actually ahead of him. So, like, I don't understand how
anybody thinks that this guy is going to be good
and that he's coming off of a neck injury. I
think it's a problem. I don't think they're good either.
I think they're changing what they're doing defensively. They want
to play Tampa, they want to play Ben, but don't break.
They're going to be trying to stay within the game
and not blitz and do all that. Okay, but at

(41:35):
some point you want to get off the field. You
got to play Manda Mann and you got to have
the past.

Speaker 1 (41:40):
Totally agree. I went back and look at some clips
of bow Knicks the other day, and I was around
Derek for a little bit at Fresno State, and obviously
when Jimmy came out watched some of his college stuff.
I see some similarities with those two guys. And historically
that type player usually went somewhere between thirty and fifty,
kind of in that range. In this new world we
live in, he ends up going in the top fifteen.

(42:02):
But why can't that work? Well, why wouldn't he work
with Sean Payton When you look at some of these guys,
I mean, Jayden Daniels is going to a defensive head
coach with Cliff Kingsberry, who I know he gets a
lot of hype. It seems like a nice guy, but
he's not really my style of offensive coordinator. He's got
Drake May going to a defensive head coach, even Caleb
Williams going to a defensive head coach. This guy gets

(42:23):
to go to Sean Payton and his skill set, accuracy, timing,
getting rid of the ball. Actually came away thinking everyone's
talking a bunch of crap about this pick. I'm like,
I actually think it might have a chance to have
a little success.

Speaker 3 (42:37):
Well, I have faith in Sean Payton. He's developing the player. Again,
it goes back to who's developing the player, and that's
the critical component of this whole conversation is who is
doing that and Sean's going to do what's right for
the offense, what's right for the quarterback. One of the
things people don't understand about Shawn's offense is what he
couldn't get Russell to do is to he programs it.

(42:59):
So the quarterback is I don't want to call him robotic,
but there's a level of roboticness into play. You move
your feet to this area, you throw the ball here.
Everything his feet armed coordinated, which is what bo Nix
was really good at doing. You could see it in
Orgitate his feet and his arm were tied together. And
so because of it, you know, Sean's going to call
the game and so that he sets him up for success,

(43:22):
and I think it will work. Look, I think what
the biggest misconception is is every you know, every when
you say a quarterback has to be managed, you know
that that's like a knock. It's not every quarterback with
the even Patrick Mahomes at time last year turned the
ball over Wight too much. They cut back on that.

(43:43):
You got to run the right system for the player
to enhance his skill set, you know, and then the
player looks better. You know, look at GOFF and the
Detroit system, where that when GoF was playing in the
RAMS system. What's the difference between Golf and Detroit and
GOFF in Los Angeles? The line in Detroit go If
GoF gets hit earlier in a game, it ain't going

(44:04):
to be good. Whether you pay them fifty three million
or whether you pay them thirteen million. You got to
protect GoF. You got to protect GoF, and you got
to give golf and you've got to protect golf, and
you've got to give them answers. And if the and
where the rams were spending money, that line started to
fall apart, and when they didn't have that, you know,
he started getting hit and you know that bothered him.

Speaker 1 (44:25):
I'm gonna get you out of it here on this.
I get asked a lot by young people, as I'm
sure you do just just career advice, just big picture stuff.
And you've had a lot of success in your career.
You've been around arguably the most successful people in the
history of the NFL. Your sons are working at a
high level, you know, And my take always is the
faster you can do what you're passionate about, because you're
going to have to work to be successful at whatever

(44:47):
a lot. So it's so much easier to work when
you enjoy what you're doing, because eventually work becomes work.
When people ask like, hey, I'm young, I'm not quite
sure I want to work in football, or you know,
I don't really love my job, I what's just a good,
just big picture advice you try to give to younger

(45:07):
people trying to make their way in this crazy world.

Speaker 3 (45:11):
So find your passion early, don't worry about making money,
and remember that wisdom doesn't come from experience, It comes
from learning and education and become an educated football person
and study the game, study the history of the game,
learn the game from all levels, not just from one

(45:33):
point of view. And you've got to keep learning the
game every single day because if you don't, it's going
to passion. And I think that's really what it comes
down to. I think you have to be willing to
sacrifice short term money for long term gain.

Speaker 1 (45:48):
Do you think that's a similarity that most successful people have.
They're not as consumed young with money. It's about the
big picture.

Speaker 3 (45:54):
You've got to have a passion, right Like, you've got
to believe in what you're doing. You got to love
it because you're you know, like you're to go to
work and it's not going to be fun some days
where you know, because you'll lose it because of the
outside noise. It's not because it's not fun to listen
to the outside noise. The people that have no idea
what they're talking about that they have all these opinions.

Speaker 1 (46:21):
Last time I talked to Coward was when the schedule
release came out and he looked at the Steelers schedule
and he basically welcomed Mike Tomlin to the broadcasting Booth
because he thinks it's going to be a difficult season
for the Steelers when you look at their schedule. Now,
I wouldn't go that far, not because I don't think
Mike Tomlin, if he left Pittsburgh got fired, would be

(46:45):
not a good broadcaster. Obviously, everyone would be lined up
for his services because I think other teams would be
lined up to hire them. And I think if he
chose to stay in football, if this season went poorly
and the Steelers, which never move on from code, chose
to do that, he'd get another job. In a New
York minute, some people have commented, don't worry Tomlin is

(47:06):
a lock to win nine games, not any less, and
not anymore. Here's what I think, though, because their quarterback
situation in the last couple of years was a joke,
and it's tough to transition from a legendary player like Roethlisberger.
Look at the Falcons. They went through it, The Colts
went through it when Andrew Luck kind of suddenly retired.

(47:28):
It's not easy to replace that player that situation. You
can get stuck in no man's land very quickly. And
they made a draft pick, which obviously they regretted taking
Kenny Pickett with a twentieth pick, who that year we
just had six quarterbacks going the top twelve. Kenny Pickett
was the first quarterback off the board. So when you

(47:48):
factor in quarterback inflation, if you're gonna go twenty, you know,
five ten, twenty years ago, that guy's going potentially like
third round, which I thought that was his level of play.
And he is currently the backup on the Philadelphia Eagles.
But I gave them credit because they had to kind
of swing for the fences and they were able to

(48:09):
do it in a very cheap manner. They're paying Russell
Wilson a million dollars a year. They traded a six
round pick for Justin Fields. Now, part of getting Russell
Wilson's services was essentially Mike Tomlin telling him he was
the starting quarterback. It's not a binding agreement, and we'll
get into one of those when it comes to the
nil situation, which many are not either. It's just works,

(48:33):
and anyone that has functioned in any industry that gets
a promise from a boss, from a partner, from someone
you are trying to lock up, if you're a sales guy,
knows it's meaningless. It does not matter. And I have
said this over and over that Russell Wilson has zero

(48:54):
equity with the franchise if they start poor, if he's
dinking and dunking, if he doesn't play well in training camp,
the conversations will immediately start. And Justin Fields today was
interviewed in the locker room and he essentially said, I
don't plan on sitting on the bench all season. I
don't plan on holding a clipboard. Those weren't his exact words,

(49:17):
but he views this as a competition, as he should
because the opportunity is there. And I've said all along
the NFL, probably more than any other league, is the
power of the fan base because when you're not playing well,
they get very loud in the stadium. Obviously they are
constantly calling into the local radio station, the newspaper reporters.

(49:41):
Is not the NBA where everyone holds your hand. They
will destroy you. And that's where the owners listen. That's
what the owners watch. So they don't want to watch
poor play, especially with someone they haven't invested much in.
Because when you're an owner and you pay a guy
a lot of money, like Arthur Blank's gonna want to
watch Kirk Cousins play why he just gave him a

(50:04):
hundred million dollars. He gave him like a fifty million
dollar bonus, Like that money already went into his account,
So I want to see what I just paid for.
But the Steelers are paying Russell Wilson nothing, and these
last three years have not gone well. I don't give
a shit what his stats say, what he used to be,

(50:24):
He's nowhere near that guy anymore. And now he comes
to a place where making the playoffs is something they've
been doing for forty years, but not winning any playoff
games is a problem. They play and arguably win healthy
the best division in football, and I think Russell Wilson
is in trouble from the jump. Not because I think

(50:44):
Justin Fields is that great a player. He has not
been yet, but there's an unknown there, Like we know
what Russell is now gives you twenty five touchdowns, Dinxon
dunks and he lose a lot of games. He's not
He hasn't been a winning player now for a while.
Doesn't mean he can't get back to that guy. But

(51:05):
history would say usually when you fall off a cliff,
you don't come storming back. And if I'm justin fields,
I go with this, with this mindset in OTAs, in
training camp, I plan on starting week one. Now, obviously
you're gonna have to show it in practice, You're gonna
have to show it in these preseason games. But there
are things he can do that the other guy just
cannot do. And because of the unknown, like what if

(51:30):
Arthur Smith, what if our offense, what if our culture
can change this guy, I'd rather see this than that.
So Russell Wilson was going to start obviously in Seattle,
but when they traded him in Denver because of the contract,
he was basically on scholarship. That's what these massive quarterback
contracts essentially are. So I'm very hesitant with Trevor Lawrence

(51:53):
or Tua, like, be careful before you sign one of
these deals because you're all in and most coaches and
teams front offices don't have the juice Sean Payton does
to be like just get rid of him. Now, Sean
was lucky he didn't sign that contract, like it wasn't
his idea, so it was easy for him to be like,
we got to get out of this business. But honors

(52:14):
don't like doing that. It happens never right, Matt Ryan.
They ate a bunch of money that was a disaster.
If this Russell Wilson situation financially is a disaster for Denver,
but there is no disaster here with Russell Wilson because
they're not on the hook for anything. So Justin Fields
to me, we're gonna see him this year. I just
think the question is when. And I think all eyes

(52:35):
are on Russell Wilson right his ability in training camp,
when the bullets start flying in the practices, in the
preseason games and early on in the season, like they
start zero and two, like yeah, put Justin Fields in like,
I think it will be that quick. And that has
never been the case for this player because he's never
been in this situation. And the moment you start moving

(52:58):
around teams you have is less and less. So I
think the situation is something worth monitoring. It's gonna be
a story that we talk about because this guy's scholarship
is over and now the competition. Mike Tomlins said a
lot of things and then he's pivoted, so I think

(53:19):
his words mean little to nothing in terms of Russell
Wilson feeling safe or and Justin Fields knows it, like
he knows coming in and the other thing, he's gonna
have the opportunity, like he gets to practice against this
guy every day in drills. They rotate in and out
and you can make an impression because both of you

(53:41):
come in with the same slate. Russell's resume is much longer.
But in the NFL, no one gives a shit about that.
What have you done for me lately? Aaron Rodgers said
it today. He said, essentially, if we don't play well,
if I don't play well, we're all out of here.

(54:01):
I think it's one of the most relatable things about
the NFL. If in our jobs we don't produce, you're fired.
Like it's pretty period, point blank, end of story for
most of our roles. If you're a sales guy, if
you're a podcaster, if you're a real estate like, you

(54:21):
will go up. You will not make any money. And
most people are at will employees and they can be
thrown to the curb at any moment. It's part of
the setup of our society and these other sports no
longer have that. In baseball, when you sign a long
term contract. In the NBA, when you sign a long
term contract, that money is coming no matter what. That's

(54:44):
why guys don't get cut in those sports. In the NFL,
if you suck, no matter what your name is, you're discarded,
you're benched, and people lose their job. Coaches have to win,
players have to play well. I mean, it's just it's
just a simple fact. And I think you feel it
with the Steelers right There is tangible pressure on this

(55:07):
organization this year. And I said last year, listen, I
don't think Mike Tomlin's a bad coach. I think sometimes
it's okay for a change. Ask Andy Reid what being
fired and changing organizations meant for his career. Change the
way everyone looked at him. Now he's viewed as like
the chubby Bill Walsh. He became a living legend and

(55:29):
he was a damn good coach for Philly. But this
Chiefs run hell. What he was doing with Alex Smith
let alone. When he got Patrick Mahomes changed the conversation
around him. Mike Tomlin like, getting fired is not the
worst thing, but he knows it. And I think they
could have made a change last year. They didn't. They're

(55:52):
very loyal organization. But I'd be stunned if they win
eight or nine games and The reason is not that
they can't win eight or nine games, but if they
just do the same thing over and over, it's like,
what's the point of all this? And I think when
you look at him, he is not going to have
a long leash with this quarterback. Look at Arthur Smith

(56:13):
when he first got became was working with the Titans
and became the coordinator. Like, they went through a pretty
quick transition. They were loyal to Mariota and then Boom
benched to Ryan Tannehill and it changed the trajectory of
all those guys in Tennessee, including Arthur Smith's career. So
sometimes you gotta kind of swing for the fences. And
that's ultimately what justin Fields is because I think, simply put,

(56:37):
what Russell Wilson has been in recent you know years,
is just not going to be good enough. It's just
that simple. Let's start in Santa Clara, a place I've
been many a time to watch the forty nine ers practice.
And one thing I know pretty well when it comes
to the forty nine ers and No Parrague a little bit.

(57:00):
The guy that manages the money have a pretty good
sense of the way John and Kyle operate. They drive
a hard bargain. They are usually not the team to
just hand out the money March fifteenth with their own
guys when they have a high price player. Unless you're
willing to essentially give a bargain, it's going to be
a knockdown, drag out. Now, that doesn't mean you're not

(57:21):
going to get paid. Nick Bosa got a historic amount
of money, but it went right up until the regular
season started. Deebo Samuel had to do a hold in.
He had literally just carried the team to the playoffs,
took him to the NFC Championship game, and it was difficult.
Trent Williams almost went to the Kansas City Chiefs, honestly,

(57:45):
not sure where the forty nine ers would be if
that would happen. All time sliding doors moment in the NFL,
like the Chiefs really needed Trent Williams, but that was tough.
There was a sleepless night or two leading into opening
a free agency that he was gonna go somewhere else,
and they get a number and they stay and stand.
You know, I would say pretty confidently behind it that

(58:08):
they don't play scared in these situations, and some teams
are a little more aggressive because they go, well the
future cap. It's not even being frugal because they'll end
up giving the money. But it's not easy to get it.
You got to work your agent earns that couple percent
that he's making off the deal. It's gonna happen next
year with brock Purty even if he fucking wins the MVP.

(58:30):
I'm telling you, I've seen them operate now for a
long long time, and this Brandon au contract is no different.
He is not at practice like the Justin Jefferson things
pretty easy. He wants a historic amount of money, probably
not budget. They know they need him, he's the best
player on the team. It's just you're talking a lot
of money. The Auk thing is a difficult conversation. This

(58:53):
is an offense that is never going to have a
hundred catch guy. This is an offense that, while he
very good, he is a winning player at the highest
level on a on his best season is gonna catch
eighty five bowls. So he's I'm sure asking for twenty
eight to thirty million dollars and that's a tough spot

(59:13):
for them to be given his comps, no one producing
at that level gets paid that. But he goes, I
am this good of a player. Look at my yardage,
look at my PFF grades, look at how much you
value me. And this thing's gonna be a knockdown, drag out.
I expect this thing. I would be stunned if this
doesn't go into training camp, and I would expect this
to go well through training camp. Now from just a

(59:36):
pure football standpoint, like, I try to avoid this at
all costs when I'm a team trying to win the
Super Bowl, like last year, Nick Bosa started really slow.
Why because he hadn't been practicing. I don't care how
high character, how hard you work, how much you love football,
and I would put Bosa under that category because he

(59:56):
came back just jacked. But it's not the same as
being on the field going up against Trent Williams every day.
Just like running routes next to Deebo Samuel, getting the
ball thrown to you from brock Perty is not the
same as running around with some former college quarterback throwing
you the pill. It's some high school football field. So

(01:00:18):
I understand the way the Niners operate like this, and
it's been very successful to them, and the results speak
for themselves. But this, this situation is just they're not going
to trade them because you wouldn't trade them next year
for a future pick. You need him now. But I
expect this thing to drag out because that's what history
would show me when it comes to these situations. The

(01:00:41):
other thing is McCaffrey. Now, a lot of their guys,
you know, Fred Warner on the sideline, George Kittle on
the sideline, Trent Williams never shows up to this. Don't
blame him. Bosa did and usually he stays and works
in Florida. But it's like, once I give you one
hundred and twenty five million dollars to make you the
highest paid non quarterback in the NFL, I just come around, buddy,

(01:01:02):
and he did, and debo he Pryce scaredy was gonna
get traded, comes back, slim down new number. Christian McCaffrey
wasn't there now if you follow him on the old Instagram,
he's gonna get married in the near future to uh
Olivia and good looking family. Not gonna lie both both
those two really, And my first top thought was, wonder

(01:01:27):
if he wants a little more money now. Mike Florio reported,
According to sources, this has nothing to do with the contract.
But when you look at his contract, he makes under
twelve million dollars this year from the forty nine ers.
His guaranteed money from that massive deal that he signed
with the Carolina Panthers, which was ahead of its time,
is gone now. If it's not obviously just personal, he's

(01:01:51):
working out on his own, this is voluntary. If I
am Christian McCaffrey, I go listen. I know running backs
have struggled to get some money in recent years, and
while wages are going up around the country and definitely
in the NFL, our wages have stagnated. And I was
the first of my kind around fifteen ish million dollars.

(01:02:12):
I was the highest paid running back in the league
on a per year basis, actually being at sixteen million dollars.
You guys had nothing to do with that. And what
I've produced since I've been here speaks for itself. I'm
not only one of the best players on this team.
Bosa makes thirty plus Trent makes twenty and is underpaid,

(01:02:32):
and me like, listen, I'm not asking for thirty, but
I don't think it would be crazy if Christian's like, hey,
can we up this number a little bit? Can we
just add some guaranteed money and yearly number, Like, I'm
a twenty million dollar player. Easy when you factor in
my importance to the team, my impact on the league,
the way I play. I catch the ball and run
the ball. I'm a dominant player, and I'm twenty six,

(01:02:54):
twenty seven years old, like I'm not thirty two. And
since I've been around you, like, durability has not been
an issue. I have been one of the best trades
this organization has ever made. Steve Young probably number one
when you trade like a fourth round pick and some
money for Steve Young. But in recent memory, I would

(01:03:14):
say Christian McCaffrey's pretty high, So I don't think it's
crazy whenever he does return to be like, hey, guys,
we need to kind of get this contract right. And
this is where these elite players have some juice, like
Cam Hayward under contract, guys, I'm the team captain, right,
Zach Martin last year, Like, hey, guys, I'm making fourteen
I know I've signed a previous deal, but look at

(01:03:35):
the landscape now. It's easy to be like, hey, for
normal people, shit, you're making one hundred and twenty grand. Well, yeah,
that was sweet a couple of years ago. Now, the
average person in my positions making two hundred harder for
you to stomach. Or if you're making sixty grand and
you've been making that for a couple of years, and
then you look around, every other person in your position

(01:03:57):
is now making ninety five. We're all human beings. Money's
all relative. So yeah, eleven point eight million dollars is
a shit ton of money. And McCaffrey has done very
well for himself. But what would the forty nine ers
pay if they had to keep him. I'll promise you this,
Kyle Shanahan would pay Christian McCaffrey before Brandon Ayuk and
they would gladly give him twenty million dollars. Now we

(01:04:18):
can argue giving a running back a third contract. I
think he's pretty unique because of his ability as a
wide receiver, Like on any given season, if you really
want it, he'd catch eighty ninety balls, no problem. The
durability thing definitely scares me, not even because of him.
I think he's definitely changed his body over the last
couple of years after he had the injury issues in Carolina.

(01:04:40):
Is more of the coach. It's like, hey, Kyle you're
up fifteen points in the fourth quarter, let's just stop
giving these inside runs to Christian McCaffrey for three yards
and having two defensive linemen land on him, Like this
isn't nineteen eighty seven. But Kyle's like, give it to
him again, Bertie. It's like, guys, can we use the
backup running back to just take six to seven care

(01:05:00):
he's in the second half, but that's not really how
Kyle's operating. He's ran him into the ground. And don't
totally blame him because he's so good, but when you
got to lead in some of these games, like give
him a breather. The last, but not least, on the
Niners the last couple of years, they've had a shit
show at quarterback.

Speaker 3 (01:05:17):
Right.

Speaker 1 (01:05:18):
A couple of years ago, they brought Jimmy Garoppolo as
a backup. Trey Lance was the starter, even though he
wasn't even the best quarterback on the team, but they
had to do it because they invested everything into him.
Then he got hurt, and then that situation ended the
season with Perdy in well. Then Perdy gets injured, and
last year, so much talk around the Niners was like,
is perty really even if he comes back healthy, deserved

(01:05:40):
the job. Shouldn't this be an open competition. It's like, guys,
Trey's not even gonna beat out Sam Donald. The moment
they signed Sam Donald, he was the backup, but there
were questions whether Perdy's health, how his return would be
from the elbow, which is fair Like anytime this Joe
Burrow conversation, it's like, what's it going to look like,
what's the first time you get injured? And now it's like,

(01:06:00):
just brock Purty's a starting quarterback and he's completely healthy
and he just gets to take all the reps like
that's the healthiest spot to be in as a team. Obviously,
he's a young player. He needs to continue to improve.
But you look around the league the best teams with
established quarterbacks, like it's just it's very quiet at that position,

(01:06:21):
like Patrick Mahomes, Josh Allen, Justin Herbert, Jalen Hurts, Lamar Jackson, right,
Dak Prescott, whoever, just get the reps in practice, they're
just the starting quarterback. And that's where the forty nine
ers are. For the first time in a long time,
the volume