3 & Out - Cowboys trade for Pickens, Aaron Rodgers' future, Willie Colon joins the pod - 3 and Out with John Middlekauff

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
The volume. What is going on everybody? How are we doing?
John Middlecoff three and out podcast. Hopefully everyone is doing well.

(00:23):
And we had some breaking news on Wednesday morning. The
Cowboys traded for George Pickens from the Steelers, so we
will dive into that from the Cowboys angle. Is Jerry
bad at trading? The Steelers unload some baggage? What does
that mean for them? So we will dive into both

(00:44):
angles of the trade as well as Willie Cologne, longtime
offensive lineman for the Steelers and then the Jets. Willie's
a badass. He joins us for like an hour. I
never met him before today. Our producer James worked with
him with the Jets back in the day doing some

(01:07):
media stuff and Willie's the man. I followed his career.
I watched a lot of his stuff with the Jets
on YouTube, him and Bart Scott, so we'll dive into
a little bit everything he was. We recorded it earlier
this morning and he was awesome. So Willie Cologne will
be on the podcast. I'm probably gonna do a big

(01:27):
mail bag for Friday, so if you want to get
in the mail bag at John Middlecoff at John Middlecoff
easiest way to get in that mailbag. Other than that, though,
hopefully everyone is having a good one. Make sure you
subscribe to the podcast three and Out podcast if you
listen on Collins feed YouTube channel as well. All of
our content is up there. And before we dive in

(01:52):
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(02:13):
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the game time out to day, last minute tickets low
as prices guaranteed. The Dallas Cowboys and Jerry Jones made
a trade today for a wide receiver, and my first
reaction was I don't like it. I think it's kind

(03:20):
of crazy. And I know they're getting a lot of
praise because the Cowboys in action over the years. I
mean last year Jerry made the comment we're all in
and then they didn't really do anything aggressively. Listen, let
me say this about Jerry Jones, because we talk about
this a lot. Perception can become reality, and sometimes the

(03:42):
perception or the narrative about a human being, about a player,
about a team is true. Like the Jets are chaotic, right,
George Pickens is not easy to coach. Mike Tomlin has
expressed those concerns over the years. We're not just guessing
based on his body language on television. Listen to a

(04:03):
Mike Tomlin press conference about George Jerry Jones, super rich
guy spends a lot of money. Let's pump the brakes there,
because there's a big difference in the NFL of just
every team's paying players. Every team in the NFL has
a high expense for their roster, right, and there's a

(04:25):
minimum you have to spend. But there's a big difference
in just having your roster and paying for players. Obviously,
some guys make a lot of money, some guys make
the league minimum and spending actual cash. For example, last
year the Browns and over the last four years, no
team in the league has spent more actual cash. That's

(04:45):
signing bonuses, that's money, not just base salary throughout the season.
Two players than Jimmy Haslm. I think I saw in
an article recently it was almost a billion dollars last
year the Eagles in the forty nine ers spent an
astronomic amount of cash. I mean, we're talking. The cash
they spent was more than the actual salary cap. That's

(05:06):
how you can manipulate. It's what Howie and Jeffrey have
been doing. Same with the forty nine ers. You give
these guys big contracts and then you spread out the
signing bonus over the life of the contract. And when
you think Jerry Jones, you're like, guy, he's given Dak
Prescott all this money, ceedee lamb, all this money spending,
all this money, but relative cash to the rest of
the league. Jerry Jones didn't even crack the top fifteen

(05:29):
in the NFL. This was the thing with Robert Kraft
for a long period of time. Everyone shitting on Belichick
like that frugal a hole, he doesn't want to pay
any of his players. It's actually the owner guys. He
loves empowering his coach that's able to get the most
out of guys for cheap. The Patriots for like fifteen

(05:51):
plus years, had like the least amount of cash spending,
especially for all the good teams. Belichick took all the
crap on that it was actually the owners and I
think Jerry, who listen, the Cowboys are well run. When
it comes to the draft, there is no disputing they
draft good players. They have built good teams in multiple iterations,

(06:13):
from the Jason Garrett crew to the Mike McCarthy crew
with homegrown guys. But I think recently we have two examples.
And listen, I've said this for a long time. Being
cheap is a disease. It's something you get when you're young,
and most people never shake it. And whether you don't,
whether you're at forty years old, whether you are a

(06:36):
multi millionaire or someone making thirty grand a year, that
you don't shake that. And when I see Jerry Jones
when it comes to some of these moves, I go,
he's this like oilmn hoping to strike gold for cheap.
Look at the Trey Lance contract or I mean transaction
that the Cowboys did a couple years ago. It's like Jerry,

(06:58):
he can't win the backup job in San Francisco for
Kyle Shanahan. You think you're getting a deal with a
fourth round pick, what are you doing?

Speaker 2 (07:05):
Well?

Speaker 1 (07:06):
What happened over the course of the next couple years.
He couldn't win the backup job in Dallas. What just
happened today is the Jerry Jones traded a third round
pick for George Pickens. It's like one I remember Billy
Bean used to do this because his owner was really cheap,
and in fairness to the owner, the franchise didn't make
any money. They had no revenue, so combination of it both.

(07:28):
They would every couple of years, from basically two thousand
to like twenty eighteen, they would have to trade all
their sweet players and they would go to all the
usual suspects. The Cardinals, the Yankees, the Red Sox, the Dodgers,
the Giants would pillage their team and Billy Bean would
in return trade those guys for like three or four prospects,

(07:50):
and every single time he would hit on like fifty
percent of them. And when he was making these trades,
it wasn't always like I want your first, second, and
third best prospect in the mind leagues. He'd go, I
want the fourth guy, I want the ninth guy, and
I want the fifteenth guy. After a couple cycles of
him building playoff teams from scratch, if he called you

(08:12):
and said, hey, we will trade you this All Star,
but we want your third, eighth, and seventeenth best prospect,
maybe you should go I really want this All Star,
But what do you see in these guys that maybe
we don't. And if the Pittsburgh Steelers got on the
phone and said, hey, we got a wide receiver for you,
do you know what I'm saying, click not interested. Obviously

(08:35):
they got out of the Antonio Brown business. Somewhat of
an outlier situation. He was clearly not just the best
wide receiver, one of the best players in the NFL.
Thing got weird, but his talent was immense bizarre situation,
the Raiders were really the only team interested, a little
desperate at the time, but that situation, he is way
better than these next two guys. Honestly, his five year

(08:56):
stretch is one of the greatest stretches in the NFL history. So, yeah,
he kind of went cuckoo, but he was an elite player.
But these last couple guys, Chase Claypool and George Pickens,
lot of talent, a lot of physical attributes. But you
know what, both times that happened, Tomlin clearly went. And
Tomlin's a defensive guy, but he's the head coach team culture,

(09:21):
all that stuff is his baby. He goes, I'm out,
I'm not into this. This guy is not good enough.
He got Ryan Poles to bite for a second rounder.
Now he gets Jerry Jones to bite for a third rounder.
At least when Ryan Poles made that deal, it blew
up in his face. Chase Claypool had a couple of
years left on his contract. Jerry Jones gets George Pickens

(09:43):
for one year left. It's like, listen, I see it
a lot with Maria because he's in real estate. Some
of these people get into these deals and like, we're
gonna low ball this guy for two hundred grand on
the house and what happens. Yeah, that's a no, no deal,
not gonna happen. It's like, yeah, I would love to
do that too. You're not gonna get a yes. On
the other side, no one wanted this guy except Jerry

(10:05):
because it's like we're gonna get lightning in a bottle here.
Probably not. And what we've witnessed last year with George Pickens,
like I wouldn't be in business with that player. Now.
I'm not acting like he is not really physically gifted
in a great fifty to fifty contested catch ball in theory,
but you put him in a situation with a first
year head coach, which I don't want to say he's

(10:27):
over his head. He hasn't coached the game, but a
guy that won was not getting a head coaching job
anywhere else. Ton of pressure because of the Dallas Cowboys
you have. It also puts a lot of pressure in
a quarterback who you know physically has some limitations but
really hangs his hat on leadership. It's like, you got
to corral this guy. You also get this player who
has one year left till his payday, who's gonna be

(10:48):
thinking a little Mimi II because that's what he naturally does. Anyway,
and the pressure goes on the coach and Jerry's hoping
we get this cheap player and he can help us out.
But here's the thing. It's like, well, middle, if you
gave a third round pick, I got no problem doing this.
Giving a third round pick for a player I'm going
to extend its cost to doing business. I also have

(11:09):
no problem giving a third round pick for a player
in the middle of a season that I think can
help me go on a playoff run. We see it
all the time, right teams that are six and three
or seven and two, They're like, we were missing a
wide receiver. It's a little risky, but here's a third
round pick for this player. It's a rental. Totally get it.

(11:29):
But if you're the Cowboys, and I would say draft
capital is going to be pretty important given that you
have high priced players, having good players in the third
round on your roster. I looked I xed out of
the deal, but twenty twenty three third round picks because

(11:51):
I just wanted to go over some players that, like,
you're not guaranteed anything, and I'm not acting like giving
up a third round pick is the end of the world.
But the Rams drafted Byron Young from Tennessee with pick
seventy seven. The Green Bay Packers took Tucker Craft. The
Denver Broncos took Riley Moss the corner. The Miami Dolphins

(12:15):
took devin Ah Chang, the sweet running back. The forty
nine Ers drafted their starting safety jy Yr Brown. Kobe Turner,
another really good player for the Rams, drafted in the
third round. The Dallas Cowboys drafted Demarvien how do I
don't even know. I've just called him overshown, but now

(12:35):
he got injured last year. But Overshown was pretty sweet. Like,
you get a lot of really talented players in the
third round who were on very cheap contracts, and to
trade that for a player who is a rental and
if this gets weird and you don't resign him, you go, well,
we get a comp pick. Well, depending how weird it gets,

(12:58):
that determines his value. To me, this has it's different
because this guy's established. I'm a starting player in the NFL,
unlike Trey Lance. But to me, there are too many
similarities and parallels to that situation. It's like, Jerry, you
guys run a draft and I think, you know what.
These guys are just solid here. They just have a
pretty good plan and they execute it. This feels like

(13:19):
he's freelancing, wheeling and dealing, hoping to get that million
dollar home for four hundred grand. It's like, Jerry, that's
not really how this works, especially when you are acquiring
this player from that team at that position. I'd be
out and I didn't do much like canvassing of the
different takes. But I would imagine most people are like God,

(13:40):
they needed a wide receiver. They get some talent, the
didn't have to give away that much. I look at
the opposite and I'm not some draft hoarder like sometimes
you got to give up picks to get players. I
don't love what the Steelers did because I don't even
know who their quarterback is. They gave up a second
round pick for DK Metcalf, who I think through three
years had more touchdowns or as many touchs. Sounds like
any player in NFL history. I know it slowed down

(14:03):
a little bit after that as the quarterback situation, but
it was clear like unique player, I mean, and can
take over and dominate. They gave him up a second
round pick and then they extended him, so it's like,
we just acquire this player and he's not going anywhere.
Now we can argue it's like, do you give that
much money to a player at a position when you
don't have a quarterback. That's fair, but at least the

(14:25):
logic if we are going to trade a second day
pick for a player, we're gonna make sure that guy's
on our team for a while, And Jerry kind of
does the opposite. We'll just play it out, We'll just
see what happens. Well, if I'm a betting man, I'll
tell you I would imagine that George Pick is not
going to be on this team for that long, So
to trade a valuable pick where you have literally found

(14:47):
sweet players for cheap is a head scratcher. And I
think this is more Jerry being Jerry and trying to
like win the deal and go, god, we got to
steel here, Like, no, they're not really deals when making
these trades. Anyone could have had this guy, and clearly
people are like, yeah, not that interested and from a
Steeler standpoint, like they wanted out of this business. And

(15:11):
I don't blame them, like they have recent history of
going like this is not gonna work, this is not
a formula, not fair to or other players to have
to deal with this, And it's like, yeah, you definitely
couldn't have George and DK, but at least DK has
proven that he can produce at a really really high level.
It can be I don't know, a pro Bowl level guy.

(15:31):
It isn't just all like George Pickens feels to me
much more like an NBA player, a guy that everyone
in the media constantly talks about, and then you look
at a statu you're like what, And then you watch
them in the biggest games, You're like, am I missing something?
Am I not watching the right game here? What's going on?
All I hear about is this guy and then you
watch him player're like, leaves a little something to be
desired and listen, it's not like DK is the perfect player,

(15:55):
but I've seen him in some big fucking games over
the course of his career and show up and make place,
and it's like, so it's like, okay, if I'm gonna
have to deal with some similar stuff. He's been a
guy that that yellow flags come out. He can be
a little emotional. At least I know I can get
ten plus touchdowns right last I checked, I think George Pickens'
career high is five. Yet when you hear people talk

(16:16):
about him, it's like four touchdowns, five touchdowns, three touchdowns.
You think the way he's discussed, specially now in Dallas,
he's like, you know, has thirty career touchdowns, it's twelve.
I just think sometimes the hype can outweigh the actual individual.
So totally understand if you're doing with the Steelers, this

(16:37):
is guy that you are not going to extend. They
have turned George Pickens and Chase Claypool into a second
and third round pick on top of getting to use
them until they realize we don't want to use them. Anymore. So,
like that's really really good business. And the Cowboys are
on the opposite end of this. I mean, we crushed
Ryan Polls for that. I listen. I'm not acting like
George Pickens isn't a better player than Claypool, but I

(16:59):
think I think it's in that similar world. I just
I don't understand that move, Like is this something the
best GMS in the league would do? And I think
the answer is unequivocally one thousand percent. Hell no.

Speaker 2 (17:14):
So.

Speaker 1 (17:14):
And I've been a supporter of the Cowboys. Hell I
picked him last year to make the playoffs. Don't think
I'm gonna do it this year. But I'm not acting
like they're, you know, some terrible team. I just think
the risk here doesn't meet the reward. And like I
said with that Billy Bean example, the Steelers are the
team when it comes to wide receivers. I'm just not
doing a deal with you. I don't want to be
in that business. I'm out right. They got rid of

(17:37):
what's his name last year, Deontae Johnson, and it just
got weird, and it got weird fast with everybody else.
It's like he's on four different teams getting cut wave
traded like this is a bizarre situation. When Mike Tomlin
tells you I'm not interested anymore at that spot, I
think you should listen to him. So I don't know, man,
I just think I think the Cowboys have really really benefited.

(18:04):
Washington was pretty bad for twenty years, and specifically those
couple of years before you know, Josh Harris bought the
team and Adam and Dan Quinn showed up with Ron
Rivera who felt like he you know, was kind of
going through the motions, and they're gonna be good now.
Obviously the Eagles are really really good. Even the Giants

(18:25):
like have some talent, and I don't know how good
they're gonna be, but listen, they're just not some joke team.
Well they can be, but it's it's gonna be difficult
to win three games in your division. So I think
that they have really I wouldn't say've been on cruise control,
but given over the last decade, the Giants have been

(18:45):
bad and Washington's been bad, and they won a lot
of those games, and that could be different now, Like
you could go one to three in those four games,
and I'm assuming next year you're probably gonna lose both
of the Eagles, because even when you were good, it
was really hard for you to beat the Eagles. So
I don't know, I guess now. I saw that the
minority owner for the Steelers said that the Aaron Rodgers

(19:11):
trade situation is more complex than artificial intelligence. I've also
always defended Aaron Rodgers because I thought, for fifteen plus years,
even when people thought he was doing weird shit, he
was an elite player. In some of his weird stuff,
I wouldn't even consider weird. I was in totally agreement with,

(19:31):
But I get like some people thought he was selfish,
not always normal. The Gudikins thing I definitely didn't agree with.
It's like, you're in a pretty good spot, but at
this point in time, it is starting to get a
little bizarre. And if this is a situation that is
not figured out over the next five or six days,
I would say the Steelers should walk away. But they

(19:52):
can't because they don't have any other options. And I
think anyone in any line of work in the private
sector will learn you never want to do a deal
out of desperation, whether that deal is for a dollar
or whether that deal is for one hundred million dollars.
When you are desperate, that's where you get put in
compromise situations and you do things that you regret. And

(20:13):
I listen, the Steelers are desperate, because no well run
organization would want to be just waiting for the phone call.
And at first I just thought, listen, he's dealing with
some stuff. Totally listen, he's a older player. But when
a minority owner is going to go on CNBC and
say a comment like that, I mean, there are a

(20:33):
lot of different variables here. And I think whenever he signs,
because I do think it's inevitable, I wouldn't bet my
life savings on it. I just think that they are
headed in a similar direction as they've been the last
couple of years. I wouldn't pick them to even win
a playoff game, and you're depending on a forty one
year old guy who you know. I always say this

(20:56):
about like when you're drafted by a team, Like, ultimately,
the Steelers had the most to lose with George Pickens,
right they I'm pretty sure second round pick? Double check that.
So they drafted him, Yeah, fifty second overall pick. So
when I invest a second round pick, I'm invested in you.

(21:17):
I want to see this work, and then you show
signs like I'm going to go the extra mile. The
equivalent for George Pickens is like a fifth to six
seventh round pick. He might have been traded last year.
So it's not worth the headache. I don't have the time,
but I've invested a lot of you know, draft resources
in you. I'm in. Now he's on the Cowboys, his
equity with a team and a coaching staff is diminished greatly.

(21:38):
It immediately is probably cut in half. Like they look
at you much more now. Not that every team doesn't
look at their players like this in some vein, but
when I draft you, it's more than just your my asset.
You're a guy that can just score some touchdowns. Like
I get to know you, you become a part of my organization.
We know each other's family. It's just it is different.

(22:01):
I mean that, there's no disputing that. And now he's
in this cycle of just who knows. And we've seen
it constantly with a lot of guys that become kind
of issues and they become that quickly. I said this
about Aaron Rodgers, like now that he's in this weird
spot where He's like, I have to go to the Steelers, Like, yeah,
that's cool, but like if it doesn't go well, they
won't give a shit about you. We saw once Robert

(22:23):
Saul and Joe Douglas were gone, Like Aaron Glenn didn't
care about you. He didn't have any draft capital or
your equity based on I owe you because I told
Woody Johnson that we should trade a first and a
second round pick to acquire you. Not my problem. I
didn't want I can say I didn't want you. I
thought he was slipping the last year when we played

(22:44):
him in Green Bay. So I think these guys got
to be very, very careful, and it kind of it's
kind of sad where the Steelers are good move today.
I give him credit, but just in terms of their
organization waiting at the just for whenever Aaron Rodgers feels
like giving Tomlin a call saying I'm in, which could happen,
I guess at any moment, but it feels like it.

(23:06):
We're no closer today than we were yesterday. The Los
Angeles rams kind of genius because I think a huge
part of OTAs now it's less about for new coaches.
For sure, it's really important. We'll get into that in
a minute. But for a team like the Rams, for
Andy Reid, for the Harball definitely John Harbaugh, for Kyle Shanahan,

(23:28):
they have had like a corps of guys for a
long time. Like OTAs, you're not teaching everyone from scratch everything.
It's about a bonding experience. These OTA practices are kind
of a joke. I mean, I've been going the last
four or five years and they are much less intense
than they were ten fifteen years ago. And I'm not
saying that as like a shot, like you could argue

(23:49):
they've always been a little overrated, but it's much more
about spending time together, depending on where you live, maybe
going to a hockey game or an NBA game as
a group, going to big dinners, just getting to know
each other. Now, part of the trip to Maui that
the Rams are gonna make, I'm sure has to deal
with a sale between the organization getting money from Hawaii,

(24:10):
but I also think this is a built in way
to just bond. I know Coach Reid, and I know
the Steelers, and I know Sean Payton was like this
for a long time in New Orleans. Really believed in
getting away for training camp because it just kind of
isolated the group. And I remember when I was with
the Eagles. They no longer do this. We used to
go to Lehigh and you would just go. I forget

(24:32):
exactly how far away was away from the facility. It's
probably our hour fifteen to twenty minutes and you're just
up in this area. Wasn't much to do, just kind
of as the group, the players, the coaches, the trainers,
the equipment staff, the scouts, and it was just like,
that's kind of it when fans come from practice and
they leave and you're just kind of stuck there for
several weeks. And I do think there is a bonding

(24:56):
element that is really really positive, especially in a day
and age when let's face it, and I'm guilty of
this too, we're spending a lot of time on our phones.
We're always on our computers, We're always just we can
isolate pretty easily. And uh, you get to go to
Hawaii for a couple of days. Pretty cool. If I
was a RAMS player, I'm sure they're taking charter in

(25:17):
the plane over there, approaching like a road trip. You
stay for three or four days on the water, do
some walkthroughs, catch some balls, get a little sweat on,
and have some cocktails by the pool. So it sounds
like a good time. The other the other news was
we were supposed to have a bunch of trades during
the draft ended up not happening. It sure looked like

(25:37):
Dallas Goddard was going to get traded. Now looking back,
maybe it was the Eagles hoping for him to take
a pay cut. And you know, just believe in, like, listen,
you don't have that many options in the teams that
would be interested. It might suck like you might not
be your team might not be any good, So you
can take a little haircut here and you can continue

(25:58):
to be trying to be defending champ. Who knows we're
gonna be favored to win it again, like we're gonna
be really good. And I do wonder if Howie and
the organization, by just saying like, yeah, he's on the
team as of now, like they would make comments like that,
was trying to pressure, like listen, and I'm sure behind
the scenes are telling him we want you to stay,
but we need you to play at this number. And

(26:19):
it's worked recently. If you build the right culture and
you are a winning team. The Rams just said it
was Stafford who clearly took up I think the report
was twenty plus million dollars. He took less to stay
in with the Rams. The forty nine ers have done
it multiple times. With Kyle Uschek, It's like we want
you here, but you got to take a cut, and
he'll like look around, He's like, I'm just gonna stay.

(26:41):
I like playing here, And to me, that speaks to like, now,
some of these guys I and never blamed like Milton
Williams for getting twenty six million dollars a year but
taking a little haircut to stay at a place where
you know you could win, where you know they like you.
There is value to that, and clearly Dallas Goddard saw
that in staying with the Eagles. Okay, before we get

(27:02):
out of here, I need to welcome you to Chasing
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(27:24):
In this segment, we'll explore some of the biggest challenges
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Whatever challenge you're facing, Microsoft empowers you with the expertise
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(27:44):
use the RAMS as an example, they're going to Mali.
Most of the RAMS key players, the core of their
team knows their scheme right. So OTA's is really a
time when we're just going over it, hammering in the fundamentals,
staying in shape, keeping a rapport with the coaches and

(28:06):
the players, but we all know the place. Maybe adding
some things based off things that we've already done, maybe
getting rid of things that we did last year that
did not work. It's really a time to kind of,
you know, practice things in or out that you've already done.

Speaker 2 (28:23):
Well.

Speaker 1 (28:23):
All these new coaches, I'm sure you saw the Vverabel
team meeting, Well, he was just outlaying the rules about
things like about wearing a hood and a meeting about
a phone, about being late, about just basic stuff that's
just how to operate within the organization. Over the next
couple of weeks, all these teams rookies included are going

(28:46):
to be on the field together. Well, if you're Mike Rabel,
if you're Ben Johnson, if you're Aaron Glenn All these
Liam Cohen, you have to teach these players your playbook.
And while you're doing it, you're gonna have in the
back of your head because you're getting to learn your team. Yeah,
that my play that I like to run is not

(29:08):
gonna work with my personnel. So we're gonna have to
have some ideas to change this around a little bit.
But you're not really able to tell because you're not
in pats. So you have some ideas that you kind
of put away till training camp, but you need to
teach the base of your offense and defense to your team.

(29:29):
So when you show up to training camp, it's really
this month is a time where you're learning and it
is very, very difficult where you know the ravens or
the chiefs. I'm not saying it's a country club by
any means, but it's you're not as stressed out like
I wonder if they know what to do. Of course

(29:50):
they know what to do. You're returning eighty percent of
your starters, and those starters can teach these other guys
where if you're Ben Johnson or you're Mike Rabel, even
though you have a lot of returning starters, they know
no more than the rookie coming in in terms of
the playbook that you're gonna run. So it is a
time pretty stressful for some of these new coaches to

(30:11):
get everyone on the same page and listen, this is
not nineteen seventy eight. You only have so much time
on the field with your team, and that includes training camp,
which is limited by the amount of practices you're allowed
to have, so ton of pressure. Big challenge for the
new coaching staffs over the next I would say thirty

(30:32):
plus days to not just your veteran players, not just
your young players, everyone on the team to at least
to be able to speak the basic language of your
offense and defense. So when you come back to training
camp that like everyone is somewhat on the same page.
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Speaker 1 (33:10):
Okay, very very excited to have a longtime NFL VET
for the Steelers for the Jets. I somehow this man
Willie Cologne and Bart Scott they got in my YouTube
algorithm and the the ny the post game show for
the Jets was just it was I usually watched like

(33:32):
Monday mornings, and it was just it was a thing
of beauty. Man, So Willie Cologne? What's up man, how
you doing? No?

Speaker 2 (33:38):
I appreciate it, man, it's a it's a compliment. I
think me and Bart actually get used to hearing it.
We had opportunity to go to the the NFL Gala
held by the United Way. So it was the Jets
and Giants were two proud sponsors, and so the Jets
and Giants a lot of former current players were in attendance.
And I can't tell you how many Jets fans because

(33:59):
me and Bart, you know, show the shoulder, kissing hands,
you know, kissing baby, shaking hands. But anyway, amount of
Jets fans that come up to us like, hey man,
your post game has become our therapy, Like we've become
we've become Jet Nations therapy on why the Jets continue
to stink it up and all the issues that go
on with that organization.

Speaker 1 (34:18):
You know what I appreciate about you is, you know,
some of these guys I saw JJ Watt say recently,
I think he just got elevated to call games like
I'm just not gonna be able to criticize players, and
it's like, well, no one's asking you to crush a guy,
just to crush a guy, but like the fans sitting
on his couch, like it's pretty like the Jets. Has
it ever been difficult for you, because I mean you
and Bart maybe since your personalities and the Jets, I mean,

(34:41):
what were you supposed to say this year? But some
of these guys, I mean, I thought Tom Brady kind
of struggles with that, and I think that's why Troy
Aikman's really good. It's like sometimes he's got to call
a spade a spade. You know.

Speaker 2 (34:53):
Well, I think it's two things. I think he's definitely
the player in his level of comfortability. And then also,
you know, it goes back to when I got off
the field, man, I was working with S and Y
and I'm currently still working with S and Y, but
we were able to have Jerome Bettison and I only
know JB. You know, when I got to the Steelers,
JB had just left the locker room, but he was
still very much around and they were still honoring him

(35:15):
for his career. And I remember I asked him that
specific question. I was like Hey, man, how do you
how do you kind of walk the line between getting
after a guy and you know, just kind of not
hurting the guy or night not threatening your access into
the locker room. And he was like, listen, man, I
always always talk about the situation, not the player, and
so I kind of always leaned on that, lean on

(35:36):
that type of advice. But when you're dealing with an
organization like the Jets, who have year after year found
some way to kind of lower the bar and kind
of you know, just kind of being dismay, it wears
you out. You know, because as two guys as me
and Bart both played for the organization, we both tried
our dannis to bring to bring positivity and bring wins

(35:58):
and championships into the building. It just happened. Nevertheless, I
think to your point, I think you pay the fan
and the and the watcher a disservices. You try to
talk around it if you kind of dumb it up
a little bit, because they're watching the game and they're
just as passionate and intent and they pay attention to
details just like you. So I think and honest and
direct approach is always good. And we try to tell

(36:21):
a lot of Jet fans. We don't want it. I
go is not to be negative and bassat Jets. That's
not it at all. Our goal is to talk about
how good you.

Speaker 1 (36:28):
Rather go to the super Bowl and win sixteen games?

Speaker 2 (36:31):
Right. We want to talk about the positivity. We want
to highlight these guys. But we also realized we got
a job to do. And listen, we've been yelled at,
We've got We've gotten, you know, a couple slap on
the hands and and like, hey guys, pull it back
a little bit. But also you know, and you notice too, John,
like you're there to sell. You know, we got to

(36:52):
sell what you're talking about. You we want people to
watch and pay attention. And so it's it takes a
lot of kind of you know, it takes a lot
of development, takes a lot of mature and you got
to also know when to pull back and go forward.
And I think we try to have a healthy balance
and then have humor behind it. I see somebody's John,
I don't know about you, but I see some of
these debate shows and some of these people you would
think we're talking about world politics.

Speaker 1 (37:14):
It's crazy.

Speaker 2 (37:15):
And I'm just like so many people gotta relax, like like,
let's let's breathe a little somebody and you guys just
and I'm I was a passionate player and I'm all
about passion. But some of these people, it feels it
feels like they want to rip your throat out. And
I'm just like, bro, let's it's not back a little bit.
And I've and I've definitely gotten there from time to time,
so I'm I'm not I'm not exempt from that, but

(37:35):
I try to. I just try to keep it one
hundred or keep it a buck, as the young people say,
and have fun with it.

Speaker 1 (37:41):
I think it's you know, you have a perspective, but
you know, I mean, have it been in there? How serious?
The coach is, the front office and obviously the owners.
I mean, you know these people. It's probably a little
different because it's not like the channel you're working for
is broadcasting. You know, it's not like they're necessarily in
direct business with the Jets. But you know these people,
you know, some of these coaches, because coaches bounce around.

(38:03):
I mean, have you ever got over the last couple
of years some text and calls specifically with the Jets
of like I thought that was bullshit what you said,
or any any situations that. I mean, you're used to
being uncomfortable, you're an offensive lineman, but I mean you're
damn I gotta.

Speaker 2 (38:16):
I haven't received anything like directly that you know, no
one has directly hit my line, so to speak, but
they will hit the producers or you know, there will
be an email that would be kind of that will
be sent around amongst the crew, like hey, guys, like
last week was last week we went there, but that's
kind of like, you know, put a positive spin. And
even when we come into production and meetings, they'll try

(38:38):
to put more of a positive spin or try to
lay more boundaries of where we can go so we
don't have to fall into, you know, maybe saying something
that kind of ruffle feathers. But I think most coaches
understand what it is. I think good coaches don't really
pay attention to adhere to it. And New York's a
different market, you know, it's just a different dog. But
I think we try to just have fun with it,

(39:00):
bring some insight perspective, and also defend the players when
we can. You know, I don't think we always bash everybody.
I think we do try to stand up and say hey,
this is what guy, this is why a guy responded
this way, or this is what a guy needs more of,
and this is what the organization and coaches are not
doing to make this guy better play. I think we
try to take that approach as well.

Speaker 1 (39:17):
I think one big difference. I was at the gym
this morning, look up in steven A and they're screaming
about you know, Anthony Edwards last night. It's like, guys,
game one, Everything's gonna be okay, Steph's out, I mean,
where's in trouble? But like in basketball players players players,
in football, the coaches are a big element of it.
And you know, obviously with the Jets in that situation,
which to me, like as someone I never played in

(39:37):
the league but scouted, like, it's way harder to make
the league as a player than it is to get
involved as a coach. Obviously to be a good coach
like a Mike Tomlin, like an Andy Reid. But there
are a lot of assistants like how's this guy, And
some of these guys end up becoming coordinators. And then
we see in these big spots the hype on teams
and the Jets that are just completely overwhelmed and you're like,

(39:59):
this is this is what is going on and the
fans now I think understand. Listen, we can nitpick play
calls right or wrong, but big picture, over the course
of a year like this ain't gonna work.

Speaker 2 (40:11):
Yeah, you know, one of the things that I have
come to love especially, and I think it's starting to
become more of a renaissance right now more than ever.
Like I watch what Dan Campbell did in Detroit and
bringing guys in who not only played ball but no
ball and can also relate to guys. And I was

(40:31):
privy to that because when I got to the Pittsburgh
Steelers in two thousand and six, I had Russ grim
as my office a line coach. I couldn't have a
better office a line coach than Russ Gribb at that
time of my career, because you know, I'm only six
y three. Russell was about six two sixty one. He's
an undersized guard, but he was, you know, he was
tough as rusted boat nails, and so was I, and

(40:52):
so a lot of my game he saw on himself,
and so we were able to have not ex and
O's talk, but just being a maybe an undersized guard
or I was tackled, actually an undersized tackle. What that?

Speaker 1 (41:05):
What?

Speaker 2 (41:05):
What it meant to play on the edge, The little
things I had to do to be effective. And only
a guy who played ball could have those conversations with
a young guy who won. Didn't play against LSU, didn't
play at Alabama, you know, I didn't play in the
big time level. I went to Hostra D one double A,
and so the guys I were going against was all
speed guys, two hundred and fifty pounds, six foot five
eleven guys. You know, a couple of times, I'll have

(41:27):
some guys who are long, rangy guys. But I was
quick and strong, so I knew how to kind of
neutralize all their skill sets. Russ was the first guy
that said, hey, man, you're never gonna beat a guy
in an arms race, right. You don't have the you
don't have Jason Taylor type arms, nor do you have
Trey Thomas type legs. What you do have is really
quick feet, and you're strong at the point of attack,

(41:49):
and you're aggressive. So he was able to kind of
take my game and say, all right, let's do this,
let's let's let's add some pat sets let's you know,
if you got a wide nine, let's not let's not
kick vertical like a Joe Tom and meet him at
a point I need you to go get him like
how Jason Peters used to do with that forty five angle.
Or he would be like, hey, man, you got a
guy like Trevor Price is my first start. You know,

(42:10):
Trevor Price is six at the time, he's six eight,
two hundred and seventy pounds. He's like, dude, he's coming
downhill on your chest. You're gonna have to learn how
to anchor, and you have to learn how to work
your hands. So he taught me how to take every
guy who I was going to go to games and say, hey,
this is what you can do, this is what you
can do to beat his best, and have those conversations
game by game. And it helped man instead of just

(42:31):
saying what I see now, and it pisses me off
from coaches to your point, John, who because they read
a book or they've been around ball long enough, they
have this kind of worldly view of how to play
each position. But now everybody's cut the same right. And
so I was fortunate enough once again to have Russell
say hey man, for this guy, we got to work
on this this week for that guy. This is what

(42:51):
we gotta do. Is saying like, hey man, I need
you know this. This is one of the things I
pissed me off. John. I know you've heard a million times.
I just need you to go out there and put
hands on him. Come on, dude, you know what I mean,
Like me, jump me, me, me putting the hands on
Michael Parsons or Von Miller. That's not enough, right, You
gotta you gotta bring your A plus game against these
guys because of how shifty, how crafty, their level of knowledge,

(43:14):
how they work in their scheme. So you got to
be disciplined in what you do, but you also got
to be see different angles of how to attack them
to be effective when each and ever played. So it's
it's just a different dog. That's why I'm I like
what Dan Quinn did down it is doing down in Washington,
bringing guys who know ball. Obviously, Dan Campbell, Aaron Glenn
has done the same, and it's not a knock and
knock against guys who didn't play at that or play

(43:37):
ball at that level. But it's just a different dog
talking to new dogs. You're trying to become big dogs.

Speaker 1 (43:43):
Did you go at the combine?

Speaker 2 (43:45):
No?

Speaker 1 (43:45):
I didn't because I was looking for I was actually
looking for your arm light because I wanted to dive
into this. I knew it would be interested and I
couldn't find it on my I bet he didn't go
to the combine. I mean, speaking of the draft for
a couple of weeks ago, obviously the big talk for
you know, you know your group the offensive line was
Will Campbell in arm length? Do you know what your
arm length was? Because that was a big question on him.

(44:06):
The difference is this dude played at LSU when was
a four year starter, and you watch them talk, You're like,
I think this guy's kind of a badass. You know,
I think you'll probably figure it out.

Speaker 2 (44:13):
I didn't. I didn't. I'm one. I don't know who
my arm length is or was. I think armleft tends
to get overrated because I come from the school with
footwork wins. If you're able to move your feet, stay
centered balance and not getting knocked off your balance on contact,
usually you can kind of you can work armlift kind
of plays into factor. If you're used to a guy

(44:35):
who wants to go to stab the bull or kind
of get down the midio treest or really work your arms.
I think that more has to do if you maybe
sometimes playing high and just having faster hands right, getting
guys off you right away. Like I watched, it's so funny.
I was on Good Morning Football this past Monday, and
they were showing highlights of me against Mike Rabel. Like

(44:55):
Mike Rabel is all of six, five sixty six, Yeah,
and that was like one of my big starts against
the Patriots, a right tackle. I watched. It was funny.
I was laid out of my stands a couple of times.
Sometimes I look like I just ran out of my stance,
but I was battling and then sometimes you got my
edge and sometimes I got him. But I realized when
I was kind of watching a little clips they showed,
I was always thinking about how to attack right. I

(45:15):
just stayed on the attack. And I think for a
lot of guys who have those little deficiencies, I think
you only get in trouble when you become neutral. You
always got to stay on attack, especially against the edge rusher,
just kind of keep tackling them because those guys are
taught how to attack you, right, they get your shoulders,
they attack your hands, your rich to elbow. So I
think if you have a more of attack mentality and
just goes like that, that kind of neutralize them because

(45:36):
that forces them to think faster while you just stay
in your mode. Right, because we notice snap count, we're
on offense. So that's how I've always been able to
process little things like that.

Speaker 1 (45:46):
What do you think is the biggest reason? Because obviously,
I mean most of these guys that get drafted at
offensive line, especially a tackle, they all fit measurables. They're tall,
most of them now are coming from the big programs.
Look at the guy's drafted high. But a lot of
them aren't going to become the ex Trent Williams or
Lane Johnson. Like why is a guy like you play
for a decade plus and playing a bunch of big
games and some of these guys are gonna be out

(46:07):
a league in three or four? Like what's a What's
something that you can't measure at that position? Because to me,
offensive line, once you get to a little bit of
an intangible position like quarterback more than some of these
other positions, like you can either run or you can't.

Speaker 2 (46:18):
A corner. I think, you know, I always kind of
I was talking to a young office a lineman not
too long ago. I think I forgot where he's going
to school. But he was just talking ball, and I
was like, man, the key to a good office lineman
is you gotta have the three the three things that
ALIGNE and that's you gotta have the brains right from
the neck up. You gotta be able to evolve and

(46:39):
learn and get better. And two, you gotta have the heart.
You gotta be tough, you gotta be spills, you're connected.
And number three, you gotta have nuts right because you're
gonna go against some guy who just flat out his
genetics are better than yours, and you're gonna have to
play that guy all a day where you don't feel
the best that you got a knee issue, you got
a back issue, and you gotta be able to get
yourself off the training table. You gotta battle, and you
gotta practice a lot of these guys don't practice enough
to john and what I mean, Like, I remember one

(47:02):
time I got blindsided and a game against the Cincinnati
there was a linebacker by the name of BJ Johnson.
He knocked me on my tail landed sideways. Anyway, I
end up having a hematoma on my tailbone, and it
bit my tailbone like that, like like the end of
an umbrother, like a j and I remember, my ass
hurts so bad, like my ass was on fire. They

(47:24):
get me off the field and I go back onto
the game and we're running stretch zone left and right,
and I look like, you know, like Scooby Doo and
the Mystery. I'm running like this going down the field,
just trying to come. My ass is hurting so bad.
But I finished the game. And then that next week,
I practice all week and I can remember Mike Tom
and go, well, I know your ass is hurt. I

(47:44):
could just And by the way, I'm I'm in the
meetings wearing a blue I'm sitting on a blue donut.
And he's like Willie. He's like, man, I know your
ass is hurting, but I appreciate you putting yourself out
there and putting in a day's work. Some of these
guys deal with some of these injuries, man, and they
don't realize this because there's a difference between hurt injured
right injured, is you got a strained pull, bruise, hurt

(48:06):
is something dangling off your body, and so and I
just I just realized that, you know, we sometimes we
got to tell these guys to keep going, and the
best you're going to feel is the first day of
training camp and then the best you know, you're not
gonna feel good for the rest of the year. And
so I think for me, what help my longevity was
just being able to play through pain, play through the
tough times and just keep going and then have a

(48:28):
short term memory and continue to work on my game,
because as you get older, you evolved.

Speaker 1 (48:32):
You know. I was talking to a scouting buddy and
he was telling me, you know, the thing I loved
the most about Georgia. He's like, it's easy to you
go to a game see these guys, but if you
go to their practices. You know, from Nolan Smith to
the guys this year, they never miss practice because they
know they can't or they will get replaced. And it
has that NFL mindset, so they get there. You talk
to the Chiefs, Chiefs players don't miss practice. You think

(48:53):
it's they're not just randomly winning these last six years.
Obviously they got a great quarterback, but that culture the
last couple of years they struggle to score, but they're
tougher than you, and that toughness gets developed in practice.
I look, it's funny watching the NBA last night. It's
like the records in the NBA. Half these teams like
one the third of the league's tanking, half the team's
load management. Whatever, many fifteen twenty games you played and started,

(49:15):
you played in a Hunter games, started Hunter games. If
you were healthy, you played. And that's kind of the
football mentality, and I think some guys can struggle with that,
especially now bounce around to college. You get to the pros,
it's like, this is a long season. It might not
be as physical as the eighties, but it's still physical.
And you see some of these guys, especially these young guys,
just kind of get overwhelmed early. And some of them

(49:36):
can mentally overcome it, and some of them clearly get
weeded out.

Speaker 2 (49:40):
Yeah, it's different. My last two years with the Jets,
I started to see guys who were high draft picks.
You couldn't get them off the trending table, right, didn't
matter how much you rehab them, did, how much, how
you lessen their reps or you know, allowed them to
do little things. You just couldn't get them off the table.
Then you saw certain guys who ball meant the world
to them, right, and they were limping around the field,

(50:01):
getting through individual drills, and when it came team time,
they were at least getting one or two tips or
one or two reps to be the best they can
be for the reps. Those are the guys I'm like,
you know, they get it, and so I don't think
it's a I think we're gonna see more guys to
your point, because the season is longer, there's more the
demand on the body. We're gonna see more guys we're

(50:21):
gonna have trouble getting off the training table. And the
guys who I played with, who they just didn't miss
no matter how they felt. I think those guys will
become a rarity. And that's and that's because of the
current state of where we're at in college football.

Speaker 1 (50:35):
You think toughness is like a quality that you're born with.
I mean, you're a small school guy, but you're from
New York. But I mean there's a big difference right
between D one double A and going to the Pittsburgh Steelers.
Were they the defending champs when you got.

Speaker 2 (50:48):
Drafted they had just one. Yeah, they had just beat Uh.
That was Jerome Bettis's last game is Pittsburgh versus Seattle.
They wanted Detroit.

Speaker 1 (50:55):
So like you probably think you're a tough guy you
get drafted, but then you go in that environment against
that defense. I mean, is there is there a developed
hardware that's just you kind of like, Okay, I gotta
I gotta figure this out. I don't really have a choice.
You're scared? Are you scared? Your first training camp a
little bit or nervous training camp?

Speaker 2 (51:12):
John. I remember when we were going into OTA's and
Russ's laying down the rotation for the drills, and I'm,
you know, I'm running with the second team at write
tackle and I'm saying to myself, okay, that's good. And
you know our first team was Marvel Smith, Allen Fanica,
Jeff Harding's, Kendall Simmons, and Max Starks at right tackle.

(51:33):
And I'm like, all right, these guys that just want
a Super Bowl, I don't know how many reps they're
gonna get. And by the by looking at them, they
don't look like they're about to take a lot of
reps like they were. Just like we're chilling like we
just want to super Bowl. We're kind of cruiser. That
wasn't that wasn't the case. These guys were. These guys
were ready to go. So I was like, oh, so
he gave me a sense of height, like, oh, I
gotta I gotta be ready to go. And so when
the ones rolled out and then the twos rolled out, man,

(51:56):
I remember sitting in my stance. First of all, I
played upright, I played in the spread, so I was
at a two point. I struggled to get in the
three point when I got to Pittsburgh and Rex Rex
was let mean, Rex Russe was like, you're gonna have
to learn how to play in the three point stands.
We're gonna have to work on that. So that took
me some time. Nevertheless, I remember standing up and having
like kind of a photoshop memory of looking at Troy Polamalo,

(52:19):
a c. Hampton, you know, Ike Tailor, I'm looking at
Aaron Smith, I'm looking at all these kick ass dudes,
and I'm like, what the hell am I doing here? Look?
How did I get here? Like, like, what what is
this right now? And it's so funny. We had we
were just pulling an install and we had sixty two
protection and so the slider is going away from me.

(52:40):
I'm one on one on the on the back side,
and I had most dangerous So anything that comes into
B gap, I have to now honor. If nothing's there,
I got to be able to kick out. And we
have been working on it, and man, sure enough, Paula
Madel comes down Troy and he's and he's in the
B gap. So I'm like, all right, immediate threat. I
got this guy. They're gonnaven throw. They're gonna throw off

(53:01):
the widest right. So I'm locked, locked and locked and
locked in snap combs. I took my eyes off Troy
for a second just to peek out here. I kicked
and all our here is whoa, whoa, And I turn
around and all I saw was Troy's hair bouncing, floating away.
And I can remember turning around like I didn't think
he was He wasn't there, and Russ was like, you

(53:24):
can never take your eyes off. And it wasn't just
a misassignment in my head. It was insane how fast
he was and how fast that defense reacted because at
one moment when I too, you know, he looked like
he's about to bail out of there, and I had
this one on one on the edge and and soon
I remember it was so crazy. When he was in
the begap. I remember him turning his back to me
and I remember seeing the forty three on his back.

(53:45):
I was like, oh, he's not coming. So my eyes
shot right out here. And as soon as I took
my eyes off him, he did some like three sixty
spin shot the b gap and tap bend on the shoulder,
and I said to my and I remember saying to myself, God, damn,
though this is the NFL, because the speed and the craftiness,
it was just like it all happened like this, and
so it made me grow up really quick. And playing

(54:06):
against a really really good defense like we had made
me grow up real quick.

Speaker 1 (54:10):
But I mean you came into the league at a
time when I mean there were double days. I mean
it was just you know, training camp was in tense, right,
and but it was great for guy drafting mid round
and you could you kind of prove yourself. It's much
harder now earn as many practices, aren't as many reps
going around. I mean, it's it's important.

Speaker 2 (54:26):
These guys would never know what the feeling is to
wake up six o'clock in the morning. And if you
ever been to Latrobe, Latrobe, Pennsylvania is where Saint Vincent
College is. So we would have to leave our dorm,
go down into the training facility, get taped up, try
to get some grub. Be on the field by seven
point thirty, I think with the eight fifteen the latest.

(54:48):
And by that time you could see the monks that
would be coming down the hill right and while the
sun was coming over their heads. It thought it was
like seeing out of Mortal Kombat.

Speaker 1 (54:56):
It was.

Speaker 2 (54:57):
It's crazy. And if you've ever been to Latrobe, there's
no trees anywhere, so we got these black helmets. It's
it's watching these monks come down this hill from praying.
And my first coach ever was Bill Kawer, and he
was just looking at everybody like it's time to go
to work. And I can remember one time when we
were on the practice field, we started to practice real
kind of ugh. You ever was kind of limping around,

(55:18):
We were kind of sobbing a little bit, and we
were like halfway into practice and he blew the whistle,
cussed us out and made us get back in our
stretch lines and start the whole practice over and I
and then from then he was like right to nine
on seven. When I tell you, this is probably the
most blood lust nine on seven because everybody was pissed off.
I mean, guys were firing out, they god damn pleats,

(55:40):
and at one point, if a bra was to start,
it probably would have been the best thing that happened
to me because I was so out of breath because
we were fighting at slugging for like a whole hour
and coward I remember cower and then that practice after
everybody's like tearing on each other. It's not blood. We
were just like all pissed off that he made us
start all over. It's ninety five degrees and he was
just like, we o to Pittsburgh Steelers, and there's a

(56:01):
target on our back. If we don't practice to the
level of this intensity, we're going to get our ass
tracked by everybody we got in front of us. And
that just kind of like with the Champs, we got
to practice like the chance, we gotta spad like the tramps.
On top of that, we had an afternoon practice, right
and on top of that all that blood, sweat and
teams that was plastered all over us. We had to
put that back on that wasn't dry. Those fans weren't

(56:23):
drying those paths. Those fans weren't drying those pants. So
you're putting back on wet jerseys, wet shoulder pass, wet pants,
and you gotta go get it again, and you gotta
have the same type of practice and intensity you had
around the nine eight fifteen, nine, nine to fifteen mark.
And so a lot of these young guys don't know
what that means to like just smell like dog shit

(56:44):
and you're just I'm in trouble, just trying to earn
a job.

Speaker 1 (56:48):
Well, you know what's funny is, like, I mean, I'm
similar age to you. Is the Steelers brand. I mean
it's it's one of the more powerful ones in all
of American sport and any team. But let's face at
the last i mean close to a decade, they haven't
won a playoff game. I just saw a headline and
you had a front row seat for Rogers last year.
He's not quite the same guy now, granted his standard,

(57:10):
I mean he's one of the greatest players of all time.
That one of their minority owners said today that like
this deals more complex than artificial intelligence. Like it's it
feels a little bizarre. Now sometimes you don't have a quarterback,
they're in a weird spot. It's not an easy fix,
but clearly they're just waiting for him, and it feels inevitability,
but a lot different from the operation that you played

(57:30):
for that was competing for championships and the only thing
that really stood in your way. It felt like we're
the Patriots. Where it's now, it's like they're not even
close to being like on the second tier with the
Bills and the Ravens in the AFC, and now they're
just waiting for Rodgers to be like, yeah, I'll see
you guys next week. It's like, fuck, OTA's I mean,
he's starting. What are we doing here?

Speaker 2 (57:50):
Well, I mean, what.

Speaker 1 (57:52):
Your thoughts on the Rogers Steelers situation?

Speaker 2 (57:55):
So a couple of things. I think there has been
reports that Rodgers supposedly has a timeline and when he
needs to say yay or nay. I think that's I
think that's been documented overall. I think if for me, so,
I watched Aaron Rodgers last year and I watched I
watched a lot of things. One I thought he should
have played in the preseason, right, that didn't happen. Then

(58:17):
his first game is against San Francisco for the nine
Ers and Sant fran and they just didn't look like
they were on the same page. Valle. At the offensive line,
we're dealing with guys like Elijah de Vera Tucker who's
coming off of injury. Morgan Moses is, you know, some
guy who's battling trying to get himself acclimated on top
of a Tyrone Smith who's pretty much a shell of
himself but really was putting in the best effort he
could to fight out there. And John Simpson and Joe

(58:38):
Timman the center were probably the best pieces on the
offensive line. With that said, when Tyrone struggled, Aaron struggled.
Now you fast forward that and obviously Devonte Smith comes,
Aaron has all his weapons. We're still now win the
games that just don't have priest Hall. The offense is
going through Aaron Rodgers. The last couple of games, when
Olu Fashion who came at left tap started at tackle,

(59:01):
you saw Aaron one get healthier and two you saw
glimpses of old Aaron start to pop on the tape
because he had more time because when Aaron sits in
the pocket, he shifts to his left to kind of
open up to see the field, and you saw him
to deliver the field, deliver the ball and make some
strikes down the field. I thought when the season ended,
that was the best I've seen him in his two
years as a Jets quarterback. Now, with all that said,

(59:24):
him going to Pittsburgh, man, I think the Steelers looked
at last year's last five games, meaning when they played
the Bengals, when they played the Chiefs, when they played
the Ravens, and they played the Eagles, there was an
elite level quarterback on that side of the field that
the Steelers just didn't have with Russell Wilson. Like Russell
Wilson struggles to throw the ball in the middle field,
he was throwing fades and go balls, and if the

(59:46):
running game wasn't, you know, clicking, they were just stagnant.
So I think in They're headed, they're saying, all right,
if we could keep Anon Rodgers up right, we can
get this office of this run game going, and we
can allow him to just sit back there and do
what he does best, which is sure run an offense,
but he also can improvise. And that's why I was
happy to see the last couple of games with him

(01:00:08):
as a Jets, because when he was able to improvise,
we saw the flashes of air of old. So I
understand this. I understand that Steler saying, Hey, there's nothing
worse than watching the movie and knowing how it's gonna end.
That's how That's how Steeler fans have felt the last
couple of years. And they had to do something, and
they're trying to do something. So if it means taking
a forty two year old quarterback coming off for torn

(01:00:29):
the Achilles to allow him to do what he does,
or give us a seventy percent of the goat Annon Rodgers,
what a defense that we know can battle. You know,
we can probably make some things go.

Speaker 1 (01:00:43):
So I think we'd both agree it's an upgrade. But
you're still playing. I mean, Joe Burrow looks like modern
day Montana back there, and Lamar's the greatest dual threat
quarterback we've ever seen. Like that, what do they do?

Speaker 2 (01:00:53):
Yeah, and Joe Burrow has a defense, I mean, he
gets MVP, they win. They their record doesn't look like
what it looked like last year he's hands down MVP
over Josh Allen to myies.

Speaker 1 (01:01:02):
Yeah, so getting Aaron Rodgers does that change what we've
seen this last I don't know five years where they
were a nine or ten win team and just get
ransacked in the first round.

Speaker 2 (01:01:11):
They just never had They never recovered from losing Ben Roethlisberger,
like Ben retired and for some reason, you know, they
really didn't bring somebody in the building who they felt
to be the Aaron parent, Like they had the opportunity
to draft Dak Prescott and they didn't. People forget that,
like Dak was sitting sitting there waiting for to be drafted.
Dak went in the fourth round, and Ben was showing

(01:01:32):
signs that he was on his way out or they were,
you know that, you know, the the light towards the
end of the tunnel was coming sooner than later, and
they never had somebody you understand what this is why
I think I get mad with people don't understand how
hard or acknowledge what Mike Thomas been through. He went
from Duck Hodges to Mason Rudolph to Kenny Pickett after
losing Ben Roethlisberger, a two time Hall of Fame quarterback

(01:01:55):
soon to be Hall of frank quarterback, like we're talking.

Speaker 1 (01:01:57):
About he didn't draft Kenny Pickett and it picked twenty though.
I mean they went all in on.

Speaker 2 (01:02:01):
Them, that's true. But my point is like they went
from sugar to shit, you know what I mean, So
that that's where I'm going at. So like, and they've
still been able to make it to the playoffs and
battle against some really highly uh some elite teams like
the Buffalo Bills in Ravens twice a year, Cincinnati, Like,
they've been able to battle and sure good outcomes, bad outcomes,

(01:02:22):
But when you have that far drop off and still
maintain some level of relevancy like people, I don't think
think people really understand what that means, what that looks like.

Speaker 1 (01:02:32):
Did you think they were gonna draft your door a
couple of weeks ago.

Speaker 2 (01:02:34):
I thought it was a shot. But I'm happy with
Will Howard. I don't I think people he gives me
those Captain America type vibes. Has dealt with a lot
of adversity in his career. You know, six'. Five seems
like he cares and only wants to play, football WHICH i.
Love and so we'll see what, happens you don't get his.

(01:02:55):
Opportunity you know what comes of. IT i don't. Know
it's all up to, him BUT i don't mind the.
Pick BUT i did think This deelers was gonna take
a swing at him first round though.

Speaker 1 (01:03:03):
That that playoff run he had At Ohio. State if
he had played like that all, season there's no way
he's there at the end of the. Year six.

Speaker 2 (01:03:10):
Round BUT i say, This, listen they lost To michigan
and they could have laid. Down he could have laid,
down but he. Didn't you know that Him and you gotta.
Understand you, know The steelers Took Jack sawyer And Will
howard and if you talk to if you and only
because my you, KNOW i got friends who Are buckeye,
fans AND i pay attention to the world of football
like you. Do know a lot of a lot of
their teammates, say, hey, man IF i was in a back,

(01:03:31):
Alley i'm Taking Will, Howard i'm Taking Jackson like these
are the two guys they're, saying, Like, hey IF i
got to go to war AND i gotta go to
back alley or brassknuckles in a baseball, bat these are
the two GUYS i bringing with. Me those are the
still two Pick steelers picked, up, right and SO I
i credit The steelers of always finding a guy who
represents or has the SAME dna as of what the,

(01:03:51):
stealer what The steeler brand. Means So I'm i'm happy about,
that AND i like the first pick And Derek. Harmon
The steelers need a. DEPTH i think they have nightmares
of them get beat up By baltimore and ran through
AND i think they needed. More definitely they got.

Speaker 1 (01:04:04):
Him so the other news today is The steelers and
The cowboys did a. Deal, uh what were your first
thoughts On George, pickens who clearly kind of got a
little weird at the end of the year and then
this year they trade FOR Dk. Metcalf but at one
point time you're, thinking are they just gonna play with
both those two guys pretty big, outside you, know Weapons,
rogers but obviously bye bye To George. Pickens what was

(01:04:25):
your thoughts? There?

Speaker 2 (01:04:26):
Yeah WHEN i WHEN i heard About George pickens and
THE DK Dk metcalf, COMBINATION i was, like they pretty
much got the same. Guy bothys are all about go
balls and, fades, right and SO i and and WHAT
i mean same guy personality, wise, Right Like I'VE i
watched three GAMES DK dk metcalf this uh this. Year

(01:04:50):
two out of three games he was he was snapping
out on the sideline like he didn't look. Happy he's either,
argued he was arguing with his position, coach or he
was yelling at a. Teammate and WHEN i Watched, george
there was always something going on with him on the,
Sideline SO i was, like, oh you pretty much got
the same. Guy. Uh the issue with The steelers right
now is that it looks like The Dallas cowboys have
their number two now With George pickens and OBVIOUSLY cd

(01:05:11):
being the number. One it ALLOWS cd to kind of
continue to stay on the slide and Make hay and
do what he. Does and now you Have george to
kind of run those go balls and phase and just
does what he. Does but overall it also allows you,
know D k to kind of continue to beat. Him
but The stellers don't have a solid number. Two LIKE
i Like Calvin, AUSTIN i DON'T i don't mind, him
but when you're talking about a legit number two, STILL

(01:05:32):
i don't know if The stellers have, it so, uh
maybe you, know maybe they have something in the, draft
BUT i. DON'T i don't know how they can look
at what they had with both of them and feel
like they won at the end of the day after
Watching George pickens leave the building.

Speaker 1 (01:05:45):
Up, well what's the? Line, obviously you Know tomlin can handle.
People you, know first time head Coach, schottenheimer WHO i
think you, Guys you guys just missed each other when
you went to The. Jets he even gone a year or.
Two but you, know it's a pretty tough job to
begin with coaching The. Cowboy then you Get George pickens
on top of your hype. Price it's not an EASY i,
mean it's part of working For. Jerry jerry's gonna do
what he wants to.

Speaker 2 (01:06:05):
Do, sure you, know, LISTEN i think if You're Brian,
schottenheimer you gotta be on. Brand and the shot In.
HIMER i knows when he was with The, jets, right
and they had a really good officer. Line they're running
the ball and they had a defense to back it.
Up so If i'm, shoddy that's what they have to figure.
Out two fists of their office a line last year were.
Rookies now you Got Tyler, booker who you just got In.

(01:06:26):
Alabama now you got a younger and more sturdy office,
Line but now you gotta get a you, know you
gotta get a game break and running. Back you gotta
get somebody that can Make hay and be as effective
As saquan is in the. Division, NOW i know there's
only One, saquan AND i know there's only One Derrick,
henry BUT i look at guys Like Karen williams for
The rams and how impactful he was for The rams last,
Year and NOW i look at certain running backs who

(01:06:47):
even though they may not be the, guy they still
they still have an impact on the. Game The cowboys
have to get that. Guy AND i don't know if
they have that guy in the. Building we'll, see But
i'm glad they got office line. Help and it looks
like from a draft, standpoint you, know they they were
able to kind of fill some boys and guys who
can play right. Now but, overall, man The cowboys have

(01:07:07):
to get back to running the ball and taking taking
some of Them brooks Off dak. SHOULDERS i, mean that's
gonna be thirty two years old coming off of Torn.
HAMPSHIRE i, know think about. That there is no there's
no question about a run. Game the only way that
man survives if he does have a run. Game SO
i JUST i think at this point it's redundant to

(01:07:28):
keep talking about they have to run the. Ball shottenheimer
has to come, alive take some of Them brioks Off dak's,
shoulders and hopefully they can get a run game in
a division that you, know you watch what The eagles,
do you watch what The giants are going to, do
and you, know the commanders see what debo is for that.
Offense but they're gonna have to run the.

Speaker 1 (01:07:48):
Ball i'm sure he. Saw it's probably like a month
ago When rogers went out with McAfee and he made
a big deal about How Aaron glenn cut him or
told him like they were. Done it's, like you, know
this is a guy who's played in the league twenty,
years been. LUCKY i, mean he's earned it because he's
a great. Player but most players hear that, talk and
you can tell he was shell. Shocked now could they
have called? HIM i don't. KNOW i, thought it's, like, yeah,

(01:08:10):
bro they were told they didn't want you, Anymore like
welcome to THE. Nfl that was my. THOUGHT i don't
know what you're.

Speaker 2 (01:08:16):
Talking, okay let's Let's i'm glad you. Go glad we,
Brother let's keep it at. Honey if you was to
break up with a, girl would you prefer over the
phone or we prefer face to?

Speaker 1 (01:08:26):
Face depends on the LENGTH i mean face to. Face
Probably i'm a face.

Speaker 2 (01:08:31):
To face type, guy right BECAUSE i would respect anybody says,
Hey willie man and man in my own. Presence this
does it's not working no. More it's time to move
on rather than you act Like tommy Tough nuts over
the phone and we AND i don't AND i can't
sense your energy right.

Speaker 1 (01:08:48):
Because i'm gonna hate you anyway if you do it that, way,
Right i'm gonna be like he just called. Me fuck
this guy.

Speaker 2 (01:08:53):
Exactly one hundred. Percent on top of, that and, God
Aaron rodgers has a countpound In New jersey where he
just Brought like it wasn't like he just went he
left the mansion and landed in another, mansion so it
was like he was staying out of holiday in you,
know like like he has a beautiful home here In New.
Jersey to fast, FORWARD i think people don't understand When
Aaron glenn got to The jets in twenty. Thirteen he
was a, scout he was learning the, ropes AND i

(01:09:16):
asked him at the SAY i was IN i just
had just got to The jets around at the same,
time from the time that man has left The jets
to going through his coaching carousel to going back into
the landing back In New, york The jets have not
made the. Playoffs, Right SO i retired in twenty. SIXTEEN
i landed excuse, ME i landed in The jets in twenty.
THIRTEEN i retired in twenty. Sixteen it is twenty twenty

(01:09:38):
five from that time spent just that time, span, right
the last time The jets went the playoffs in twenty,
ten they had not made the. Playoffs and just to
add another layer of, that he's walking into a building
where the core of this, team The Quinton, williams the Assaust,
guards The Garrett, wilson's The Breeze, halls on and on and.
On when they were, drafted especially coming from winning, programs

(01:09:59):
they had expectation that they were gonna change how The
New York jets are going to be perceived for the
future and what The jets look. Like these guys have
not seen the. Playoffs if, anything they've. Regressed Quentin williams
is gonna be twenty seven Years he's twenty seven years.
Old three, years he's gonna be. Thirty he's gonna start coming. Downhill,
right because if you turn on the, tape the man
gets double team every damn. Play it still has to Make.

(01:10:23):
Hay there's nobody on the other side of him to
take some of that pressure off. Him on top of,
that we saw the regression Of Sauce, Gardener we saw
the frustration Of Gad. Wilson SO i understand why this
man is sitting here, saying Like, aaron thank, you but
no thank. You we gotta move. On and he's trying
to get this core of guys who everybody follows in
that locker room to believe that they can win In New,

(01:10:43):
york that it is. Possible and if we go with
the mantra and have this, philosophy if we're gonna be, tough,
resilient kick, ass we're gonna play out brand football that travels. Well.
RIGHT i said this, before and not to be. Redundant
The jets were two and five on the road last.
Year The Buffer, bills who went to THE Afc, championship
there were five and, four meaning they have a certain.

(01:11:04):
Brand What Aaron glynn is trying to reciprocate is, tough, resilient,
violent efficient football that travels from stadium in the. Stadium
good teams win on the. Road so he has to
get this team to win at home and be able
to take that mindset in that brand and win on the.
Road he has no time For, Fields he has no
time to deal with a. Quarterback tell, him, hey, MAN

(01:11:25):
i may have other commitments in the. Offseason we'll see
how this. Goes are you kidding? Me at what? Time
what time DO i have to acknowledge that because you
have other, commitments you have other things going on in your.
LIFE i now have to wait in limbo to see
if you want to be a jet quarterback or even
if you want to play. FOOTBALL i was totally on
board What Aaron glynn. Did he, GOES i gotta move.

(01:11:46):
FORWARD i got this young core, GUYS i got this
young locker. ROOM i got a shock life back into
AND i gotta get back to playing winning. Football by the,
way we got Justin, fields who we don't know what
he's going to be like ALL i know foreign too
with The. Steelers they set him on a bitch and
it was. Over SO i gotta figure out where this
kiss has, that what can he? Do what he can't?

(01:12:07):
Do and can he lead my? Offense AND i gotta
get this defense being a kick, ass get this defense
going to be you, know get him back to being
a kick ass. Defense SO i JUST i, THOUGHT i
think so much was made up, of, like, oh how
dare he Treat Anon rodgers like? That? Please when your
house is on, fire that's the last, thing that's the
last thing you were. About how you somebody's. Feelings you
try to take this fire.

Speaker 4 (01:12:28):
Out Blending vice's signature dynamic storytelling with the high octane
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(01:12:49):
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Speaker 1 (01:13:08):
Channel i've been to a lot Of niner practices When
sala was the, coordinator and obviously everyone likes. Him these
people have good things to say about the, guy but
as a, coach it felt is it fair to? Say

(01:13:29):
was it him being? Overwhelmed was it the? Organization obviously
they had moving. Parts one owner hires and the other
guy comes back from? Overseas, like why is it gonna
be different Because Aaron, glenn same type. Deal everyone loves the.
Guy you, know it's a really impressive, guy unique, career great,
player awesome Coach Dan campbell swears by, him and they
turned around The. Lions, HELL i mean he won a

(01:13:49):
game week whatever it was eighteen with me on. Defense
it was crazy that they won that. Game so but it's,
like it's this is a hard job, because like you,
said a lot of high priced future, players but they've
already been the. League now they start calling pi's on Sass,
gardner he might not be an all pro. Anymore you,
know it's like it's it's a. Difficult why is this

(01:14:11):
gonna be different For Aaron glenn who feels like everyone's rooting.

Speaker 2 (01:14:15):
For, WELL i think everybody's rooting for him because they
feel Like they've been watching a nightmare for the last four, years,
dealink starting With Zach wilson all the way up To Aaron,
rodgers nothing has. Transpired AND i think when you talk
About Aaron, glenn the fact that he is coming from
this parcels, tree, right and on top of, that he
was In detroit and has shown his ability to not

(01:14:37):
only coach amazing football, players but coach guys who, Like,
man you, KNOW i don't know who this guy, is
but they're winning a football, Game like The detroit lines
were decimated with injuries last year and they were competing
in battling their tails. Off and SO i think people
are rooting For Aaron glenn because not only is he
a guy who knows the organization and knows everything About New.

(01:14:59):
YORK i think people just want to see The jets
get out of this kind of purgatory they've been living, in,
right and they want a coach who can flat out
motivate these, guys drive these, guys and believe in these,
guys and get these guys to believe in. Themselves Because
john doing the pre and posts is. Fun but what

(01:15:19):
breaks me And bart's, eyes, man is when they interview
At Brest hall when they interview With Garrett, wilson and
when they interview some of these other, guys and the
fire is dimming in their, eyes like you can see
the fire the why the one two gets it gets
darker and darker and, darker because they were told once

(01:15:40):
we Got Aaron rodgers that one piece way out of
here baby playoffs and maybe we can make. It that's
how they. Believe everybody believed. It so WHEN i See
Brece hallman who came off IN acl can't find himself
in the, offense looks, defeated not even looking to the,
camera just kind of have the start, offs you, know
this kind of far. Off WHEN i look At Quentin

(01:16:01):
williams and he just kind, of you, know give you the,
whole this whole rigor remo, like AND i See garrett
was to look internally frustrated externally he doesn't want to
be a distraction of, callers any Trumble like you just
start seeing this from guys, who you, know if they
were in other, places they are kicking ass and they are.
Stars but because they're In New, york because they haven't
been able to, win and they've been having to deal

(01:16:21):
with the pressure and everything that comes along with being a.
Jet they just they're starting to clam up and they're.
Coming they're starting to look small ON, tv and that's
heartbreaking because they're all damn good football players who are
also damn good, people and, football when you don't, win.
Sucks it makes it. Harder SO i Think Aaron glenn
right now understand that understands that haven't been a, player a,

(01:16:44):
coach and now a head. COACH i think he's, like all,
RIGHT i gotta get these. GUYS i got to get
them back feasting. Again and SO i Think aaron can
do it because he has a philosophy and he knows
a brand of football that.

Speaker 1 (01:16:55):
Wins did you Think rex had a chance of the.

Speaker 2 (01:16:57):
JOB i. DID i. DID i thought the media was
pushing for. HIM i was pushing for. HIM i Thought
rex was somebody who was going to come in and
had some time away from the game to kind of reset.
Himself and with the defensive pieces we, had you, Know
rex is a is A he's a. GENIUS i don't
know how to explain any more than. THAT i know it's,

(01:17:17):
simplistic BUT i think he's he's a genius when it
comes to defensive, football AND i thought one of the
things that we're going to do different if they was
going to Hire rex was not bringing his, guys but
bringing qualified guys to Compliment. Rex you get What i'm.
Saying AND i Think rex comes with his own, guys
AND i don't necessarily think those guys Helped. REX i
Think rex's biggest issues he's he's loyal to a. FAULT

(01:17:40):
i think they won't have to bring into some guys
that kind of Help rex Be rex and let that
defense kind of you go back to what you, know
the defenses that we love The rex.

Speaker 1 (01:17:48):
Coach obviously you get to be around. It, Really i'll
get you out here here in a second pretty. Closely
but do you ever miss just playing and just like
driving some dude back and score and touchdown.

Speaker 2 (01:17:58):
Every year when they cut the. Grass Around june And,
JULY i still have that eternal. CLOCK i don't know
if every other ballplayer has, it but Around june And,
joe excuse, me Around june And, july doesn't matter what's
going on in my life, personally there's a. Clock there's
a sense of. ANXIETY i start to get Where i'm
LIKE i should be, TRAINING i should be getting ready
for the season LIKE i. SHOULD i still LIKE i

(01:18:21):
Sometimes i'll get up in the morning And i'll just
go run BECAUSE i JUST i feel like my body
is like. Preparing it's so used to preparing for the,
season so used to getting up and grinding and kind
of getting after. IT i definitely miss, it without a.
DOUBT i just miss just that me versus me mentality every.
Day you, know the camaraderie is. Awesome, sure rolling out

(01:18:42):
there with your helmet feeling, good skipping, around you, know banging.
Heads oh that's that's. Good but just the intimacy of
FOOTBALL i definitely, miss.

Speaker 1 (01:18:50):
You, know like a still photo of Like Tiger, woods
there's like ten thousand people around, Him, LIKE i don't
even think he notices any of these. People as a,
player when you're LIKE afc cham your, Game, pats do
you even hear are you just so dialed? In like
who's over you and the play and your? Assignment do
you even know what's going on around you beside like
the play in terms of the eighty thousand people in the,

(01:19:11):
Building like do you feel that when you're playing or
are you just so dialed once it's?

Speaker 2 (01:19:15):
Rolling, Man i've been asked that question, Before and the
only WAY i can explain it is the louder it,
is the QUIETER i, become and the quiet it sounds to.
ME i only it only gets loud when less people
are in the. Building AND i don't, KNOW i don't
know why that makes. Sense but you, Know i've played In,
baltimore in the height Of baltimore Where ray like when

(01:19:39):
it was the like The legion Of. Doom, YEAH i
played All i've. Seen i've played in the stadiums where like,
man you, know the walls Of jericho coming down and
the place is. Shaking And i've always had be me
AND i know a couple of my other, players my,
ball my, teammates excuse, me always had this surreal feeling
of just kind of staying. Here what none of this

(01:20:00):
you just don't, Hear like you just don't. Hear you
just kind of locked. In And i'm still able to
make the CALLS i need to make on the. Line
i'm still able to say talking enough ship to the
PERSON i want to talk. TO i can steal all.
That but when you look at it from A tv,
copy it sounds like an earthquake is going. On. RIGHT
i set through that, like you, know so it's it's it's.

Speaker 1 (01:20:20):
Wild was that tailbone injury the most pain you ever played?

Speaker 2 (01:20:24):
Through? Oh hell, no my, Last, No my. My the
tailbone was fun BECAUSE i WAS i had that blue
donut and uh it WAS i got a little, empathy
a little sympathy walking around with that. Thing Uh. No
my knee injuries were pretty tough my last couple of
years with The jets man WHERE i was bone on
bone AND i you, KNOW i, WAS i was doing
everything to kind of stay on that field and that.

(01:20:45):
Sucked you, know just kind of trying to save my
bullets SO i can at least go out there and
put on a show For. Sunday that was. Rough my
knees were kicking my ass and, uh you, know just
going through that barely being able to get out of,
bed you, know limping around the, building you, know rehab before, practice,
rehab after, practice. Rehab you, KNOW i was always kind

(01:21:05):
of doing anything and everything and kind of being able
to stay upright and, fight and, uh those doubt was
tough mentally and. Physically that was really tough for.

Speaker 1 (01:21:12):
Me, well hopefully this, fall you guys will have some
more positive things to talk about after after some wins
and some excitement and fields running around the defense looking.
Good Because i'm telling you What Aaron glenn did in
that with some of those. DUDES i, mean it was.

Speaker 2 (01:21:25):
Crazy but that's what's so. Impressive what's going to be
so impressive about this season Because i'm talking into existence
AND i BELIEVE i don't know if playoffs wild card at,
least why? Not?

Speaker 1 (01:21:38):
Right you think they're better in The.

Speaker 2 (01:21:39):
Pats, yeah they're better Than. PATS i believe they have
better they have a better. ROSTER i think they're just
a better. Team Like i'm not a believer In, Jake
Like Drake may was okay to, Me LIKE i. DON'T
i don't like he was okay to me coming out of.
College he was okay to me last, Year LIKE i.
Don't nothing really kind of shook me up to, believe
like this guy, is like oh, wow watch out.

Speaker 1 (01:21:59):
Him caleb made a lot of plays when they were
down twenty, nothing the game didn't. Matter both those two.
Guys they got a lot of, talent but they made
a lot of plays when the game didn't.

Speaker 2 (01:22:07):
Matter, Yeah LIKE I i WATCHED i Watched, drake like
he can Make like obviously there's a lot to his
game from an athletics, standpoint give him, that but like
he didn't wow. ME i wasn't, like oh, shit like
here he, comes he comes the future of The. PATS
i was just, Like, okay It's Drake. May now you can.
Change you, know the game may slow down from. Him
they Got Will campbell. That you, know they've added some more,

(01:22:28):
Pieces BUT i always thought the pass defense for it. Hard,
yeah week after week they're just gonna put no points on.

Speaker 1 (01:22:33):
The board In miami's and.

Speaker 2 (01:22:35):
Shambles so do you really didn't.

Speaker 1 (01:22:38):
SHAMBLES i think they're gonna be pretty BOD i mean
when the coach comes out at the end of the
year and, says, yeah we're finding guys they just don't
show up on, Time it's like they don't they don't
respect that guy at.

Speaker 2 (01:22:48):
All that's Why I'm i'm out on.

Speaker 1 (01:22:51):
Them when WHEN i heard, that and he was being,
Honest he's, LIKE i don't even think money. Works it's,
like can you imagine showing up late to A tomlin
Or rex? MEETING i, mean out of, respect no, Chance
it's not about the. Money you don't do that in any.
Industry if you respect the, guy you're working for so
to me in, trouble this is Why i'm.

Speaker 2 (01:23:08):
Nervous for the for the core of football because last,
YEAR i don't maybe you know his, name who's the
linebacker for The niners that wentn't go in the game
when they needed to go in the.

Speaker 1 (01:23:21):
Game Devondre. CAMPBELL i couldn't fathom.

Speaker 2 (01:23:25):
THAT i couldn't. Fathom it doesn't matter how MAD i
was at my, position, coach my my current station within the.
Team when your numbers, call you gotta go and respond.
Right the emotions, Aside it's always been about playing your
best for either the name in the back of your,
jersey the symbol in, front and for your. Brother that's

(01:23:47):
always been the holy trinity as a football, player to
tell your coach no for whatever reason and live. Action
that for me was like football is going in there
And i'm telling you.

Speaker 1 (01:23:59):
You just say. No, well he walked in locker, ROOM
i think he.

Speaker 2 (01:24:01):
Left hef and this Isn't this isn't like a av.
Moment When ab took off his, jersey it was, like, yeah,
right LIKE ab has. This we know there's a lot.
Goes this isn't like A vantae, days Got wrest Of
soul who's, like, No I'm i'm leaving Because i'm. Retiring
this guy didn't want to. Play he told him no

(01:24:22):
and left the. Field And i'm saying to, Myself, wow
LIKE i THOUGHT i would never see, That like to
wave coaches off solely because you just don't want to
play anymore because you have your reasons like. That that
just did that Don't that Didn't from HOW i was
brought up in this game and the, people that just doesn't.
Happen And i've had guys have legitimate reasons for not,

(01:24:42):
playing but they should walk their tails out there and
play the game and then whatever issues they had to
dealt with behind the. Curtain but to say no and
leave your brothers high and, dry that's NOT i just it's.
Tough but then when you look at N I l
and these guys are not paid or if they don't
feel like they you, know if you've been or sit
him all, Right i'm out of. Here where we're going

(01:25:03):
To we're going in the wrong. Direction to.

Speaker 1 (01:25:05):
Me The campbell thing a little bit of an outwire
because he was an older player and the entire team
turned on him and it was, like get this guy out.
Here they cut him, immediately it wasn't, like, yeah he
kind of had a, point like everyone thought he was.
Crazy to me that The Anthy richardson thing is one
of the craziest things in league, history you. Know but but,
again like what gives me hope as just a football

(01:25:27):
fan for forty years is the entire team also turned on,
him and it was, like we gotta sit this guy,
down you gotta bench. Him SO i do think the.
Culture but the more and more this stuff seeps in
turns into two does it turn into ten, guys it's
turn into fifty? Guys makes you a little.

Speaker 2 (01:25:41):
Nervous, Well i'm the reason Why i'm nervous BECAUSE.

Speaker 1 (01:25:45):
I, think like The anthony, richmsond you agree that that
was one of the craziest things you've ever.

Speaker 2 (01:25:48):
Seen, yeah that was. NUTS i didn't think that was,
possible which was wild BECAUSE i had SAW i had
went down To florida AND i watched him play Against South.
Carolina it was him And Spencer ratley going at each,
other and he was like the most in shape human
Being i've ever seen in my. Life like we were
down A florida in ninety, five a free, weather and
he was running up and down the field like a mad.
Mess i'm, like so that so that, that you, KNOW

(01:26:10):
i don't know if he took like a red bull
that kind of sped.

Speaker 1 (01:26:12):
Up it was hard too.

Speaker 2 (01:26:13):
MUCH i don't. Know it was insane to. See but
to fast, forward you, KNOW i talked about playing for
the jersey and playing for your brother and all the other.
Stuff now when you see these kids like just tap
out on a whole, program like you, know tap out
and just leave for the sake of because they feel
like they're not being treated. Right, yeah it's just wild.

(01:26:36):
Man it's just LIKE i don't understand, where, like, listen
people put their kids in sports to pull the essence
of what it means to playing the, sports like hard, work, perseverance,
responsibility where like those little. Nuances that's what we put
our kids in sports so they can retract that and
hopefully if they're not able to play professional, sports they
could take it into their work life and have that

(01:26:56):
on a part of their. Foundation but that's being threatened
now because these kids are, saying, hey IF i don't
get it my, Way i'm out of. Here and now
we're starting to see guys tap because either they neither
shape or they just don't want to, play and there's
a correlation, there AND i hate, it, man because whether
we like it or, not we are walking role models
and a walking brand for how sports it should be.

(01:27:18):
Played and we try to do our best as ballplayers
to represent. That and when we kind of fall out of,
that it's, like you, know.

Speaker 1 (01:27:26):
One THING i do wonder like like anything With Aaron,
Rodgers like that's On aaron no agent or. Whatever but
Like nico the kid At, tennessee clearly his dad and
all these guys now have so many people involved in
their life eighteen, nineteen twenty years, OLD i mean clearly
awful financial. Decision you're At, tennessee which is basically THE nfl,
light you're making over two million. Dollars you go TO,

(01:27:46):
ucla which is a shitty program in twenty twenty.

Speaker 2 (01:27:49):
Five reund his brother was a year, before like what
are you?

Speaker 1 (01:27:52):
Doing but but it's like is that his decision or
is like his dad says you're getting, screwed and this
other guy says he's getting. Screwed you got all these
people in the cookie jaw are and it's just all
out of. Whack, which, LISTEN i got no problem with
anyone making, money but clearly something is it's just off.

Speaker 2 (01:28:07):
Kilter you, KNOW a lot of the, Issue john is
a lot of these guys who are receiving this money
AND i don't even know how. MUCH i, mean there's
some of the Numbers i've heard IS i think guys
making twenty k a month or something like. That it's,
like it's. Nuts the people around them are just sucking them.
Dry like An ato does not know what to do

(01:28:28):
with twenty k a, month, Right like all he knows
is all, Right i'm some, cars some, money some put some,
away give some the mom and the time you. Look
and on top of there's a finding whoever's helping you
ship your tape around or get you to different. Schools you,
know there's a finders. Feed you got these kids got to.
Pay and so there's there's just some of these, kids,
man there's Getting they're getting sucked. Dry and it's not.

(01:28:51):
All it's not cute and a lot of these GET
a lot of these kids are suffering from. It AND
i know BECAUSE i HAVE i know a lot of
coaches who are in college and they're, like, man it's,
tough and what's. Crazy THE d one double a is
WHERE i came. From they can't give a, Kid, no they.
Can't they will have the bait to do any of
What alabama. House they will. Texts they don't think they're

(01:29:11):
they're the big schools are taking their bottom, feeders bumping
them up just so they can fill a. Roster and
THESE d ONE d one DOUBLE a programs are just
dealing with whatever they can wrap, up you, know and
hopefully give a little. Change and they're pulling from the
division underneath. Them so it's a it's a weird time
we're in right. Now.

Speaker 1 (01:29:28):
YEAH i think a lot of these guys make decisions
based on LIKE i, mean you have been flow throughout your.
Career you, know in the spring practice goes, bad then
the next one goes. Good but the, EMOTIONS i, mean
when you're, young you have no emotional control and you
look back like you would have been better. Off most
of you guys are not going to play in THE,
nfl and if you, do a lot of your careers
are going to be. Short but if you had played
your whole career At, tennessee At Ohio, state AT usc

(01:29:51):
that's gonna benefit you for the next fifty. Years but
all of a sudden you've played at four different, Programs it's,
like who's even claiming?

Speaker 4 (01:29:57):
You?

Speaker 2 (01:29:57):
Right BUT i also think anytime you have this a
conversation openly and, publicly people think, like, oh they don't
want the guys get. Paid we're not saying that at.
ALL i want to guys to get paid a lot of.
Money BUT i also If i'm sending my son to
The university Of tennessee and he calls me and, says, Hey,
Dad i'm not starting this. FALL i got beat, out
And i'm, like all, right, Son well we got to
figure out how we can get you in the. Field,

(01:30:18):
like for, instance WHEN i got To, HOFSTRA i THOUGHT
i was gonna start at nose. Tackle they got another kid.
In we battled it out, CAMP i lost set out that.
Fall springtime came, around they, said, hey will you have
an opportunity to either go to offensive line or still
ON d line and ballot it out? Again AND i was,
LIKE i Can and this was my exact. WORDS i
cannot go through the fear of going sitting on the

(01:30:41):
bench again and having my parents sit behind me and
watch me sit in the. Bench i'd rather suck at
offensive line and be on the field battling than sitting
here holding my, helmet just waiting for an opportunity to get.
In SO i went to offensive, line and it was
obviously the best DECISION i, Made but, nevertheless for me
and HOW i was, BUILT i got to, COMPETE i gotta,

(01:31:02):
play AND i wasn't looking the way. OUT i was
just merely wanted to play For hoster and be the
BEST i could be For. Hobster and at that point
you didn't matter on the defensive, line officer. LINE i
had to get on the, Field but.

Speaker 1 (01:31:12):
You would have been a good example of like word
would have got out That hofstra has this guy that's
probably gonna get drafted going into your junior or senior,
year That Rutgers, maryland even if it's Not Ohio state or,
whatever other bigger programs would have called, you and it's, like, Hey, willie,
uh let's just, say you, know we got two hundred,
grand you want to come play At? Maryland what will
the club's probably there right hands.

Speaker 2 (01:31:33):
Down i'm, yeah, YEAH i MEAN I.

Speaker 1 (01:31:36):
And who, knows then maybe you end up going second, round,
right it could benefit your. Career BUT i ALSO i
never have a problem guys going up to me The
tennessee TO ucla is, like what are we? DOING i.

Speaker 2 (01:31:46):
Don't i'm with, You, LIKE i understand mo money being the.
MOTIVATION i understand that. Aspect but WHEN i look at
how my career, went IF i didn't have my office
line Coach Damien, rabluski and if he didn't put everything
he had that to me and teaching me what it
means to be an office alignment and how to play the,
GAME i don't know IF i would have had that
same type of investment from a guy who was At rutgers, right,

(01:32:08):
LIKE i. DON'T i don't, Know, like, well they're paying,
you they got to invest in. You but if they're
giving out that type of, money if you don't make it,
out if you don't pan out right, away they're gonna
give it to somebody. Else so it's like it really
takes the kid to figure out his Why AM i
leaving solely because of the, money or AM i leaving
BECAUSE i feel Like i'm not getting the best opportunity
of being. Mistreated if my kid is, like, hey you,

(01:32:29):
KNOW i don't want to. LEAVE i want to figure
it out. Here all, right let's let's do. That but
IF i want to leave BECAUSE i feel like we had. Slided,
well we're gonna have a hard. Conversation are you doing your?
Best are you trying to persevere in being? Better or
are you taking the easy way? Out because if you're
taking an easy way, Out, SON i can't let you.

Speaker 1 (01:32:45):
Leave, okay WILL i took way too much of your,
time BUT i appreciate. It and you, KNOW i would
imagine the weather. Starting you got That northeast humidity coming
right down the. Pika, man it's.

Speaker 2 (01:32:58):
Been raining the last couple of. Days it broke sunny
and pretty, today so it's about seventy four. Degrees so it's.

Speaker 1 (01:33:03):
Nice you got big plans to summery doing anything.

Speaker 2 (01:33:05):
Fun i'll be bouncing around my. Wife we have a
second home In, Jackson, mississippi So i'll be bouncing Between
New jersey And, Jackson, mississippi and, uh just doing WHAT i.

Speaker 1 (01:33:14):
Do, yeah you think the humidity is bad in The,
Northeast you go To, mississippi you get that sweat.

Speaker 2 (01:33:18):
On, Uh, john you gotta peel your POWs.

Speaker 1 (01:33:21):
Off, Thanks, willie take it.

Speaker 2 (01:33:25):
Easy always

Speaker 1 (01:33:29):
The volume

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}3 & Out - Cowboys trade for Pickens, Aaron Rodgers' future, Willie Colon joins the pod