3 & Out - Nick Sirianni EXTENDED, Fred Warner gets PAID, Owners meetings topics - 3 and Out with John Middlekauff

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
The volume.

Speaker 2 (00:15):
What is going on everybody? How are we doing? Hopefully
everyone is doing well out there in the streets, having
a great day. Probably not as good of a day
as Nick Sirianni or Fred Warner, two guys that just
got contract extensions making them a lot of money in

(00:36):
the NFL world. We will dive into the Eagles, will
dive into the forty nine ers, as well as the
owners meetings. We will probably touch on the Tush push
tomorrow or the next day whenever we have the end
result on how that vote goes. But there is a
lot of buzz on potential receding for the playoffs, so
we will dive into that as well as a lengthy

(00:59):
mail bag at John Middlecoff. At John Middlecoff is the Instagram.
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(01:19):
Everything we do is up there. Just reacted if you
missed it yesterday to Scottie Scheffler winning the PGA championship.
Watched a lot of golf this weekend and now we
will stay locked in to the owners meetings. But before
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take as low as prices. Garrin dud Okay, let's start
with the Sirianni extension, and do I need to do
a Maya Kolpa and apologize and embrace where I've been
as guilty as anyone of just shitting on a guy

(03:04):
who now gets a multi year extension, who's a super
Bowl champion, who has a record that you could argue
through his first four seasons was better than Jim Harbaugh's
first four seasons with the forty nine ers. Sirianni is
forty eight and twenty six and three in the playoffs
with a ring. Harball was forty four and nineteen of Granted,
they're playing more games now they did back then, but

(03:25):
Sirianna's got more wins and obviously the difference in their
resumes is one guy has super Bowl and the other
guy does not. And I had to spend a lot
of time thinking about this and listen, clearly, the Eagles
players liked the guy and the team plays really really
hard for him. But once I saw this headline come out. Now, granted,
when the season ended, it was clear like he was
in line for an extension. What were they going to

(03:47):
do like let him walk? Of course, you win a
super Bowl. He was going to get some money. Sounds
like a multi year deal. It's not like they're making him,
you know, the coach for life. This isn't like, doesn't
quite feel like a Harball or Tomlin situation. But let's
face it, He's been good and he got rewarded today,
and the reality is his Most human beings in any
field can't overcome everything. Aren't just destined for greatness, destined

(04:13):
for success. Most people, including myself, including the majority of
people listening to this, need a lot of help, need
people to go into business with, to partner with, to
work for that know what they're doing. And when I
was thinking about the NFL, like Andy Reid's an outlier.
Andy Reid went to Philadelphia when they were a joke,

(04:34):
and a couple of years later has them in the
NFC Championship, the NFC Championship, the NFC Championship, and they
just start winning. Then he goes to Kansas City, who
had the number one overall pick. Obviously, what he's done
there speaks for himself. Peyton Manning is a good example.
He could have gone anywhere. Peyton Manning could have played
for me, He could have played for you, He could

(04:56):
have played for our mothers. It would not have mattered
he going to be successful. That's not true about Tom Brady.
Tom Brady could not have been drafted anywhere and been
a success. Maybe he wouldn't have gotten the opportunity. Maybe
he wouldn't have gone to a place that fit him
scheme wise, Maybe he wouldn't gone to a place that
believed in him, because that's typically what happens sometimes with

(05:18):
later round picks, they're just kind of afterthoughts. Instead, he
got to go to Bill Belichick and it changed his life. Hell,
we just saw it with Brock perty There's a big
difference of your Brock Purty that getting drafted to a
team that either has an established quarterback or a chaotic situation,
then going to Kyle Shanahan. A couple injuries later, you

(05:40):
become his franchise quarterback and he's an offensive guy, and
the team's loaded, and it just kind of works. Most
human beings need help. Most of us are very dependent
on our situation. Hell I can speak from experience. I
really benefit doing what I'm doing, being associated with and
working with, for, partnered with, however you want to put it.

(06:03):
With Colin, it changed my life. The amount of people
that you never know about or see behind the scenes
working on this podcast is long, from audio video producers
to salespeople. We've got a lot of people helping me out.
And I know a lot of you can relate like

(06:23):
your success has come from working with the right people,
getting into business with the right people, marrying the right person.
It can change your life for the better. And Yeah,
does Sirianni benefit from working for an owner that basically
has unlimited pocketbooks when it comes to investing in his
football team to working for and with a general manager

(06:45):
that I would say is widely considered as the best GM,
smartest GM in the National Football League? Did he benefit
from going to a team that already had guys like
Jason Kelcey Brandon Graham, Fletcher Cox, Lane Johnson on the roster.
Of course he did. But you could say the same

(07:05):
thing for Jim Harball. The team was not winning when
he got to San Francisco. Guess what Patrick willis, Joe Staley,
Frank Gore, Vernon Davis. They were already on the team.
They just needed some direction. But he did not turn
guys like me and you into players. And I think Sirianni,

(07:26):
like the majority of coaches, needed help, and if you
put him in the right situation, he can succeed. Look
at Mike Tomlin once upon a time when he's hired
out of nowhere in the mid two thousands, however old
he was thirty three to thirty four years old. You
think he benefited going to You could argue the most
stable organization in like the history of American sports. Look

(07:50):
at John Harball when he got hired in the mid
two thousands by the Baltimore Ravens. Guess what he got
to inherit. I don't know Ozzie Newsom, who's a Hall
of Fame player and should be a Hall of Fame
general manager. He also got guys like Ed Reed, Hellod
Nada and Ray freaking Lewis were already on the roster

(08:12):
and established elite players. That helps take the Jags job.
See how that goes. Most people fail. So when I
look at Nick Sirianni, where I got it wrong is
I think I overthought it. He's going to a place
now that is equipped. You're gonna win when you go there.
And if you don't have a massive ego and refuse

(08:34):
to listen to anyone and think that you've invented football
like a coach a couple times ago with the Eagles,
you're gonna have success. I understand. Doug Peterson got run
out of town. He also won a fucking Super Bowl.
So seeing Nick Sirianni win a Super Bowl have a
team that's really good, like good Spot, most coaches would
die to coach there. Why because the infrastructure there is

(08:57):
pretty special.

Speaker 1 (08:59):
You know.

Speaker 2 (08:59):
Look at Kyle Shanahan that up until last year most
considered one of the best coaches in the NFL. It
was not going well at all through a couple of
years in San Francisco, and then Belichick got on the
horn and said, Kyle, we will trade you Jimmy Garoppolo.
You interested. Kyle said, uh, uh what do you mean

(09:20):
he's like, you got thirty minutes second round pick click
changed the course of the forty nine ers, hell even
the next year. Then he tears his acl which led
to Nick Bosa, meaning they had the number two overall pick.
Like it was not all sunshine and rainbows, because that
was a place where you needed some help, you needed
some luck because there was no infrastructure. It was a

(09:42):
joke and the Eagles clearly or not. And Nick Sirianni
has benefited from that, but obviously he brings some to
the table. He knows what he's doing, his ability to
work with other coaches, like he's not the coordinator, he's
just the motivator. And we give a lot of credit
to Mike Tomlin who never loses, or John Harry or
Jim Harrorball, Like Sirianni's in that world and he's doing

(10:04):
a good job. And you go out and I get
the Chiefs had some offensive line issues, but you beat
the living you know what out of them in the playoffs.
You know, you deserve your flowers and obviously you deserve
a contract extension. So props to Nick Sirianni. A couple
things with the forty nine ers today, they extended Fred
Warner and officially made him the highest paid linebacker in

(10:27):
the NFL. I think on average it's twenty one million dollars,
which is one million dollars more than Roquan Smith. And
this is Fred's third contract, and he will go down
as one of the highest paid you know, I would
say linebackers. He probably will when it's all said and done. Ever,
he's a great player, he's he's an unreal player. Actually,

(10:49):
I think when he's healthy, he's the best linebacker, middle
linebacker in the NFL. I'd put Roque right there as well.
But special player, special guy, special leader. A couple things
with the forty nine ers. They have gone all in
on their core, and their core now is Brock perty
George Kittle, and Fred Warner. And I think all three

(11:10):
of these guys are good examples. They are the NFL.
Fred Warner was the highest pick of the three guys
at pick seventy in the third round. George Kittle was
pick one forty six in the fifth round, and obviously
Brock Purty was the last pick in the NFL draft
a couple of years ago at pick two sixty two.

(11:32):
So the forty nine ers actually have built this operation
full of guys that were not really high picks. Their
best defensive back, who they just gave a huge extension
to last year, Diamino to Leonor is a fifth round pick.
They actually took a guy named Ambry Thomas higher than
him when they drafted both of them in the same draft.

(11:54):
And I say this all the time when the draft
happens in the NFL. You we get so excited about
the draft. Who's drafted really high, even though we know
within a couple of years half the first round will
be considered bust. Half the first round will be guys
those teams are not going to pick up their fifth
year option. And some of the guys that have their

(12:15):
fifth year options picked up should not. It's just because
they feel loyalty to having used that draft capital on
that individual. But the forty nine ers built this thing
on guys that were hungry, smart and tough. Now, obviously
Fred Warner and George Kittle have elite physical skills, but

(12:36):
that's easy to say now. No one was saying that
when Fred Warner was coming out of BYU, or when
George Kittle was coming out of Iowa. And actually, my
wife showed me something. She's a diehard forty nine er
fan of this clip when John Lanched a couple weeks
ago signed George Kittle and George walks in and John
starts telling this story of do you know when we

(12:57):
really started to notice George when we were evaluating the
quarterback CJ. Bethard that Kyle loved. These guys were not
superstar players jump off the screen in college. You know why,
because a lot of guys in the NFL that make
hundreds of millions of dollars turn out to not be
top ten, top twenty picks. It's the ultimate meritocracy where

(13:22):
if you can play, if you're physically and mentally tough.
Obviously you have to have the physical baseline of certain
attributes at certain positions. But every single year we see, oh,
what's wrong with their first round pick? I don't know,
he got worked by their fourth round pick. And now
he's a backup, and that guy's a starter, And within

(13:42):
a couple of years, that guy will be the highest
paid guard, that guy will be the highest paid corner,
that guy will be the highest paid tight end. Rinse
wash repeat, and I think the forty nine ers, their
core group is just a really impressive group of guys.
And having seen these guys forever, George and Fred pretty

(14:03):
special players. And the one thing is when you give
guys third contracts, you are pretty dependent on you know,
these guys staying healthy. And it's football, anything can happen.
But also things change. A couple of years ago, the
Rams made a huge pivot and they kind of reset,
and it looked like they were resetting with a couple

(14:23):
guys Aaron Donald, Matt Stafford, Cooper Cup. Then all of
a sudden, Aaron Donald retires, Cooper Cup gets old and
injured quick and looking at the team now, Aaron Donalds
know where to be found, Cooper cups on the Seahawks,
and Matt Stafford is basically on a year to year basis.
So for as big and as excited as we get

(14:46):
with most of these contracts, like brock Perty's contract is real,
he's not going anywhere, but most of these other deals
are at most two years. So if they produce, if
they get old fast, if something changed, they won't be
around long. And this is not the NFL, This is
definitely or in the NBA. This is definitely not baseball.

(15:07):
When you're like is so and so still on Team X.
It's like, yeah, he's on year seven of that ten
year deal. That's not how this league works. So I
have a lot of respect for these guys, and I
think the forty nine ers ultimately just chose two guys. Also,
here's the thing. Purty's contract, because of his position, even

(15:29):
though he took a discount, like Brock, Purty took a discount,
took fifty million dollars less in total guarantees than Dak Prescott.
Last I checked Brock Purty's beat Dak Prescott twice. Actually,
I guess Jimmy Garoppolos started in one of the playoff games.
But regardless, Perty's had more playoff success than obviously Dak
ever had, and you could argue they are very similar players.

(15:52):
If you are making an argument for Dak fifty million
dollars when I'm signing a year after you is pretty crazy.
And then listen like this doesn't get talked about a
lot in the media, But taxes have to factor in.
Making two hundred and thirty million dollars of the Dallas
Cowboys quarterback is a lot more net income than what
you would make playing in Santa Clara, California. So brock

(16:13):
Purdy gave the forty nine ers a huge deal. So
when you see him getting a no trade clause, which
is something the forty nine ers have never given out,
like not that shocking. If we're going to do a
deal and negotiate anything, like I gotta get a little,
you gotta get a little. Something I learned a long
time ago. If you just fight for everything about you,
you are ultimately gonna lose out. And you could argue

(16:34):
Dak Prescott like, maybe he should have done this deal
years ago. Maybe his team would be a little bit
better off. And who knows, maybe he doesn't care because
he's gonna go down when it's all said and done,
is probably when he retires one of, if not the
highest paid quarterback of all time. And I do think
when you look at brock Purdy, listen, this is always
going to be a polarizing contract. But when you can

(16:57):
get a guy who has had more success than other
guys like Trevor Lawrence last year got two hundred million
dollars in total guarantees, Like I said, Dak Prescott two
hundred and thirty million dollars in total guarantees, and this
guy signs for one hundred and eighty. It's what I
call a very very team friendly deal. Last, but not least,
the NFL meetings that are going on this week will

(17:18):
have some resolution on the Toush push. I would imagine
the next day or two. All signs point to people
that report on the league and that around the situation
that the Toush push is gonna go away. And there
was a report today that the Eagles have been like
doing what like politicians do, is like calling around and
seeing how many votes they got and trying to get
people to flip. Don't know if that's gonna happen, because

(17:40):
it clearly feels like Roger Goodell is hell bent on
getting this thing to go away, which I guess where
I ultimately stand. If it's days, I don't really care,
and if it goes I don't really care either. I'm
kind of indifferent on the play. I don't think it's
the end of the world like some people that hate it,
and I don't think it's some like a travisty to

(18:00):
the sport if they're told they can't do it anymore now.
I also believe that bigger reason why it works is
their quarterback can squat like nine hundred pounds. So if
you had a quarterback who was that strong, it should work.
I mean, we saw Josh Allen try to run it
against Chiefs. Couldn't do it. But one topic that was
tabled from the last meetings to this meeting is the
reseeding in the playoffs. And it's also I would say

(18:23):
it's a little different than Tushbush, but very polarizing issue.
And when people are pulled and anonymous quotes about like
is it fair or not? And I saw Albert Breer
wrote in his Monday Morning Quarterback that all schedules are
not equal. So if I win eleven games and you
win fifteen games, well, what if I had the hardest

(18:43):
schedule in the league, and what if you had the
easiest schedule in the league. Or what if I win
nine with the hardest schedule in the league and you
win eleven with the easiest schedule in the league and
we end up playing in the playoffs and we recede
and I have to go on the road. Yet I'm
actually better than you because or equally as good, but
our records are different because we don't play the same schedule.

(19:04):
It's what became such a hot topic in college football,
right we're trying to figure out the last three or
four teams in. It's like, well, they're all playing different teams,
so it's kind of a guessing game. Like people hate
to say, what about the eye test, Well, the eye
test has to be factored in. When a lot of
these teams aren't playing each other and the last couple
spots come down to these four teams and none of

(19:26):
them went head to head against each other, it became
a complicated subject. And I think here's my overall takeaway.
I would have no problem if you win double digit games,
meaning ten or more, and you win your division, you
get the home game, no matter what. I always had
the issue when the team under five hundred, even to me,

(19:48):
a team that goes nine to eight hosts a playoff game.
I mean last year we had the Rams, who went
ten and seven hosted the Minnesota Vikings. Now the game
was kicked to Glendale, Arizona because of the five, but
because the Rams won the NFC West, they hosted a
team that had just won fourteen games and at one
point in time the week before was sixty minutes away

(20:09):
from being a fifteen win team and had been starting
to finish one of the best teams in the NFL.
I would have no problem regardless of receiving if the
Rams would fall into the category of they won double
digit games, they won their division in boom they host.
But I could also see the argument of like I
looked at the Rams point differential from last year, it

(20:31):
was like minus twenty. The Minnesota Vikings were like plus
one hundred, So you could just watch it factor in
the eye test the Vikings had had the better season.
But like it's football, it's a one game situation, a
lot like the NCAA tournament. Weird shit happens, and you
could argue playing on the road or playing It's like,

(20:51):
what are we really arguing over? But I am a
huge believer that if you go under five hundred, under
no circumstances, should you host a playoff game. I would
have no problem if they did some sort of you
have to hit a certain threshold. Now I doubt they
would do that. They're either going to reseed or they're not.

(21:14):
They're not going to put stipulations on like, well, if
you go ten and seven. I'm just saying what I
would do, because that would be pretty crazy. They would
never reseed and then all of a sudden, they're receding
with parameters based on records. But I would imagine that
Roger Goodell wants to do this, and wants to do
this badly, because all he cares about is the television

(21:36):
product and getting the best teams and the best environments.
And he'll do anything, and he will stop at no costs.
I mean, we've seen what he's done with these international games.
We've seen what he's done with these holiday games. I
would guess, as we sit here right now, even if
this thing doesn't pass right this upcoming season, that we
will have a reseed in the playoffs within the next

(21:58):
couple of years.

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Speaker 2 (22:23):
Okay, let's dive in to the mail bag at John
Middlecoff is just my Instagram handle. That's how you get involved.
DMS wide open. Obviously we do a lot of football questions,
but the summers upon us times are gonna get slow.
We are opening it up to any questions you may
have over the next couple months as a summer break

(22:45):
kicks in for football and the NFL. But we will
still obviously answer any football questions that comes this way
as a Bucks fan. We're starting with Spencer. I feel
like Jason Light is hugely under Everyone talks about teams
and organizations like the Bills, the Lions, the Packers as
being a well run. Jason has provided an unbelievable roster

(23:08):
for the Bucks for the last ten years. It just
took getting quarterbacks that don't need Lasik eye surgery and
the Bucks have won four straight division titles. Again. They
look to be good next season, thoughts. Yeah, I mean,
obviously Tom Brady and arians changed the trajectory of the franchise,
but Jason Light in the Baker Mayfield transaction, has a

(23:33):
chance to go down as one of the best, if
not the best, in franchise history. I mean, when Tom retires,
like what are you gonna do? They get Baker Mayfield
for four million dollars and now he's on a contract
that pays him thirty million dollars a year and he
was definitely a top ten quarterback last year. He's obviously,
just you know, it feels like on and off the field,

(23:54):
he's just dialed in kind of the heartbeat of that organization.
He's clearly drafted a lot of great players, right wide receivers,
offensive linemen, defensive players. I think forty five. I think
the stat was like forty four. Forty five of their
fifty three man roster were drafted players. Obviously Baker Mayfield

(24:15):
accounts for one of those. He just had a general
manager in Spy Tech. You know, a guy under him
get a job once you start creating a tree like that.
He's a stud. I mean, I wouldn't say I know
him well. We definitely know each other and always been
a big fan. And everyone I know in the league
loves him. I mean people that because he works for

(24:38):
the Eagles right before I got there, and he had
just left, and you know, spy Tech had gone with him.
But a lot of people the guy that got me hired,
Anthony Patch, who now just left the Eagles to go
with Spy Tech to the Raiders. Jason Light is very
very well thought of it, and he's just he's just
a classic football guy who's really good at his job.
I think one of the reasons that he doesn't quite

(24:58):
get the respect. It's something about that organization. You know,
if he was doing what he was doing with the Giants,
with the Niners, with the Packers, which with the Dallas Cowboys,
which is like a prominent, bright light, huge city, you know,
prominent historical NFL franchise, I think he'd be talking a

(25:19):
lot more about But you know, at the end of
the day, he's making a ton of money, his team's winning,
he's got a star quarterback. I don't think he really cares.
I've been watching your podcast for about a year and
it's one of my faves. I appreciate you. I'm twenty
six in a lifetime Cowboy fan. Do you think Dak
will play out his contract with the Cowboys and do
you think Joe Milton could ever be an NFL starter? Thanks?

(25:44):
I would never say confidently. They'll play out his contract, right,
he just signed a huge extension. He's in his early thirties,
he has some major injuries. You never know, but he's
gonna be the Cowboys starter for the foreseeable future. The
Milton thing, I don't know. I mean, I view Milton
like I do a lot of players in the league.
That are backup or thirst string quarterbacks like pretty indifferent.

(26:07):
I mean, the chances that a lot of these guys
are going to turn into the next starting quarterback feels
pretty slim to none. I don't quite understand. Like, I get,
you didn't draft him, he's not your guy. Maybe it's
just as simple as they don't want any conversation going,
you know, coming around. But the Patriots last year now
again Vrabel was not there, but used a six round

(26:31):
pick on the guy, and then a year later they
just trade him to the Cowboys. Just a little bizarre.
I get they just want to completely clear the runway
for Drake, but like, who's calling for Joe Milton? Whyouldn't
you just keep him around? Just it seems a little
weird to me. I don't quite understand that. So not
that guys haven't been wrong before. I mean, Tennessee gave

(26:53):
away Malik Willis to the Packers and then he started
winning the Packers games, and will Levis was handing the
ball to the other team. So it's not like teams
always get it right. That just that seems a little weird.
I don't know, it's just something I got red flacked.
I don't even know why. I just just bizarre. I thought, who,
in your opinion, is the most underrated disrespected player in

(27:17):
the NFL and why. It's a good question. I think
before he got to the Rams, I don't think Stafford
got nearly the credit he deserved. I mean, I would
say his biggest proponent, non like NFL GM or NFL
coach was always Rogers, who really spoke up for the guy.

(27:38):
But I think, you know, Stafford now is pretty highly
thought of. It's a good question. I listen. I know
he had some flaws and he turned the ball over
a little bit. I always thought Philip Rivers pretty freaking good,
but I didn't have to think about that. It's a
good question. I think it's hard to like be underappreciated
in twenty twenty five. It's like the Internet is strong.

(28:00):
It's like when I got to the NFL, it was right,
this was ending, like let's find a gym, Like there
are no gems that there are no players that you
can scout that no one else knows about. They do
not exist. Honestly, not that much different than high school recruiting.
Like the Internet changed everything, even Division III guys, like

(28:20):
everyone gets the stats. So if you got one hundred
and fifty balls there and you ran a four to four,
every team's gonna know about you. So I think, you know,
in the NFL, maybe are we hyper critical of some
guys and not critical enough of other guys. I'm sure,
but I think for the most part, I think the
only way that happens is if you're a really good

(28:41):
player on a bad team, then you just kind of
get overlooked. But it's like you're not winning, your games
don't really matter. It's not necessarily your fault. I mean,
it's a team game, takes twenty two guys, takes coaching staff.
But I'm sure if we went through the bad teams
in the NFL, like, there are really good players on
the Titans, definitely on defense, right, there's some good players

(29:01):
on the Giants, but no one goes like, you know,
Dexter Lawrence, like who's that guy? Like everyone acknowledges is
one of the best players in the league at his position.
He's like a dominant player, but his team sucks, which
again not his fault. All the good teams would take
him in heartbeat. I love the show question for the pod.
I'm a recent Iowa State grad. Go Cyclones, buddy. I've

(29:23):
been working my first time full time job. First full
time job, I've been considering starting my own YouTube channel
podcast and hopefully turn that into my first my full
time job. What recommendations would you give? Thanks looking forward
to hearing this. I think I've answered similar questions to
this before, and listen, I'm not the first guy to

(29:44):
say it, and it's just a pretty popular message. But
I do think a key to doing anything, whether it's youtubing,
whether it's I hate the term influencer, but like doing
stuff with the different apps, whether it's TikTok, whether it's Instagram,
whether it's streaming, is just to do it constantly and

(30:06):
every single day show up and do something which is difficult,
Like it's really easy. I'll give you an example. It's
easy to do podcasts after a Thursday night or a
Sunday night, or a Monday night football game, or just
during the season in general, or leading up to the
draft or during the draft when Shador Sanders is falling

(30:26):
in the middle of June, there's not much going on. Hey, Middlecoff,
we got three ads sold. We both want to make
some money. Fire up that microphone, do something. It's difficult,
but like, I don't really have a choice. This is
what I signed up for. This is what you do.
This is when you honestly you earn your money. And
it's easy when you're excited to do some content, to

(30:48):
record something. But there are gonna be days where it's like,
what am I going to talk about? And that's how
you kind of separate over the course of time, regardless
whatever you're youtubing about. My name is Red Vick and
I'm a graduate of Georgetown Senior about to graduate next week.
Congratulations buddy, George Town. You must be a smart dude,

(31:09):
huge fan my dad's team, the Niners, and also cheer
from my hometown team and the Skins. My question is
what advice would you have for recent college grads as
they explore the real world. Uh, that's a great question. Obviously,
the world you're entering is a lot different than the
one that I entered. Make me sound old, but eighteen

(31:34):
seventeen years ago, when I left in two thousand and
eight cal Paly, I would say one message that I've
had forever and I don't think it'll ever change till
the day I die. Try to do something and find
a profession that you enjoy doing because no matter what
you do, whether you're a starting quarterback in the NFL,

(31:55):
whether you're Bezos and you're running Apple or Steve Jo
or I guess Bezos ran Amazon, Steve Jobs ran Apple,
you run some huge company, or whether you're just running
a deli. If you like what you're doing making sandwiches,
making phones, selling books, whatever it may be, it is
so much easier to do whatever you're doing because no

(32:16):
matter what you do, podcaster, quarterback, you name it, it
becomes a job. And there are days that you know
can have a monotonous feel and times, whether you are
doing something physically demanding or mentally demanding, you're like, I
don't feel like doing this today, And when you enjoy

(32:36):
doing it, it makes it way easier to do on
the days when you don't want to do it, because
we all have days where we enjoy doing whatever we
may be doing. Especially you know, get to a point
where you can make a little money.

Speaker 1 (32:49):
But.

Speaker 2 (32:51):
I would say try to get into a line of
work that you like and are passionate about. It'll make
life go a lot more seamless, because no matter what,
all of our lives get challenging. We have bad days,
we have days where we're not into it. I don't
care what you do, and it helps when whatever you

(33:13):
choose for a profession that means a lot to you
you're passionate about, which is some people it's easier said
than done, but I would try to pursue that. Do
you have any opinions on the Florida State football program
as a multi year season ticket holder. I'm fascinated and
also terrified at the situation of being left out of
the college football Playoff and how it might have long

(33:34):
lasting impacts on the whole program. Also, with the settlement
with the ACC, the media rights buyout has a date
that matches up exactly with the renewal date with the
Big Ten media rights. It feels like FSU is at
a crossroads of being relevant in college football as a whole. Well,
for those of you that have been listening for a while,
you remember my guy, Derek Ray, who is the GM

(33:57):
of Florida State, who I worked with at Fresno State,
came on the podcast last year and we talked about
Jared Verse and Brayden Fisk and Rinardo Green and all
of this. The guys that had played on that undefeated
team that got left out of the playoff. Obviously, they
had a ton of momentum that they were just a
top five program. They had just won the ACC with

(34:20):
like their third string quarterback, and then last year happened.
So I followed Florida State pretty closely because of Derek
and like anyone my age. I mean when I was
a kid, they were basically an NFL team. They were
top five program every single year. I do think it's
gonna be fascinating because when you have a season like

(34:43):
last year, which let's face it was an embarrassment, a
lot on the line this year, a lot on the line.
I would say anything less than like ten wins would
feel like a problem trying to NCAA football. There is
not a team in the ACC that had less conference wins.
Florida State went one in seven, two and ten. You

(35:07):
would know better than me. That has to be one
of the worst seasons in the history of the program.
Here's the problem. You guys open against Alabama, which that
game is dope Campbell Stadium. That game is at Florida State.
So you host Alabama to open the season. I would

(35:27):
say you win that it would go a long way
to erasing some of the last season. Even if you lose, though,
you get East Texas A and M. I mean, that's
an embarrassment. This isn't anyone's fault beside the athletic department.
Florida State should not be playing East Texas A and M.
What the fuck are we doing? I mean, seriously, Ken

(35:49):
State home Saban. I'll allow you to play that. Then
you get into conference play at Virginia, Miami, Pitt at Stanford.
It's pretty crazy that Florida State is gonna play at Stanford.
You don't see Belichick, but you gotta go too. Clemson
to Florida not gonna be easy. Not gonna be easy,

(36:11):
I would say, does he get fired at eight wins?
I don't know. My question is about my lowly Dolphins.
I know you don't think highly of them, and for
any good reason. They suck Beside our undefeated season, which
we hang on to tighter than super glue. Is there
any way for us to get competitive going forward? Follow
up one hundred men or one gorilla? Uh? I like

(36:37):
the gorilla. I just think it's gonna be very, very
difficult for the men to injure the gorilla and I
think the ability for the gorilla to seriously injure person
after person is like you could just shatter legs like
a twig, Like I would just shatter legs, punches the face. Now,
maybe you could just start jumping on the gorilla, but

(36:59):
I feel like it's I just think it could injure
so easy, where the humans, assuming we got no weapons,
have a huge disadvantage. So I like the gorilla. And listen,
I've watched a lot of Animal Planet in my life,
so I'm not saying I'm an expert on this topic,
but I feel pretty confident about my stance there. I
would say the one good thing you have going for

(37:20):
you is over the years with your owner, he's tried harbad,
denied him right, trying to think in recent memory the
big name guys. I feel like he's tried after Jim
Harbaugh a couple times, but like he's been on the
big guys and he just struck out. I mean, he
even looked at Brian Flores and said, listen, man, just lose,

(37:43):
just lose. I'll pay you. No one needs to know
about this, And Flora is so prideful. He's like, I
want to win. It's like Bro you want Tua who
you fucking hated, or Joe Burrow. So the owner's clearly
pretty nuts as well, but like at least he's got
a lot of money, and if he ever could just
I don't know, like convince like a Kirby Smart, I'm

(38:06):
not even saying that would work, but I would imagine
if they just struggle this year, which I expect them
to do, that they're gonna need some juice and some
buzz you kind of need in Miami when you think
about it. The Marlins suck, right, I mean, the Marlins
really suck. The organizations just hasn't been good in a

(38:26):
long time. The Hurricanes really, beside last year, hadn't been
that relevant or good in a while. The thing that
makes the Heat pretty unreal is like pat Riley, at
least up until last year when it kind of fell apart,
has operated that thing like the Navy Seals, but without him,

(38:47):
and pat Riley's getting up there in age. If you
tell me pat Riley dies or whenever he quits or
retires or just kind of ends this run, I will
bet against the Miami Heat moving forward, just because the money,
the area, like, it's clearly like it's a great place
for people to fuck around if you're young, good looking,

(39:07):
and rich and a dude. Guess what, there are a
lot of stuff to get into. And I think it's
a huge disadvantage. And now that you know, look, we
have a pretty long history now with the Miami Dolphins,
So I would say that you just got to pray,
like you got to find your pat Riley whenever that

(39:30):
was that Mickey Errison hired pat Riley, what was it
like two thousand ninety nine, two thousand and one changed
the franchise forever and it made them obviously the staple
franchise of the area, like consistently good. And the Dolphins
have not been that. The Marlins have not been that.
The Hurricanes really starting since the early two thousands have
not been that. So I think there's a huge emphasis

(39:54):
on getting a guy that like hand the keys to
your Sean Payton, to your Jim Harbaugh, to your whoever,
and that's not even guaranteed to work. Maybe you just
can't win there. Congrats on the wedding Daily Listener question
for the pod, my fiance and I need some show
recommendations outside of sports. Do you and your wife have

(40:17):
regular shows you watch, any good ones to check out.
You know what's crazy is when you get into a
show with your wife, with your girlfriend, it's awesome. You
both enjoy the show, and it's like, Okay, every Sunday
night we're watching X, or every Tuesday night we're watching X.
And then there comes a point in time when that
show ends and you're like, we don't have anything else

(40:38):
to watch. I have every streaming service known to man.
I couldn't have any more options to watch television. Yet
there will be nights I'm sure many of you guys
go through this where it's just like, did we just
spend an hour going from Netflix to Prime to Hulu
to Max to fucking you name it, and we have
been like, there's nothing to watch? How is this possible?

(41:01):
We are spending so much money on all these streaming services,
yet our options always feel pretty limited. So, you know,
I watch TV for a living, So sometimes I have
to just kind of give her the reins and she
watches shows. Now, granted, i'd be I'd be lying if

(41:22):
I said every once in a while she'll watch something.
It's like, okay, I kind of like this, you know,
And then it gets to a point where it's like
a summerhouse on Bravo. It's like, you guys are like
forty years old going every weekend to this house. Now,
I'm also not naive or ignorant, like this is a business.
They're paying these people twenty five fifty thousand dollars an episode.

(41:45):
If I was in their situation, I would probably do
the same thing. It's like they're just going there for free.
But in terms of my entertainment value, it's like, I
just don't care what these people are doing anymore. Now,
she did get on this show called mom Talk. It
is again incredibly stupid, I mean incredibly stupid. But it

(42:06):
has all these babes that live I think in Provo,
Utah where BYU is, and there are some of them
in this huge TikTok scandal that they were doing the swinging.
They're all in their twenties, and it is again really
really stupid. But I'd be lying if I struggle to
look away. Sometimes it's just the entertainment value of its stupidity,

(42:30):
but I don't. Sometimes I also think when we're watching
a show like that, I'm like, am I getting dumber?
Should I be reading a book? Should I like listen
to like a Warn Buffett's autobiography. Should I just download
Belichick's new book? Should I do something to increase my
brain capacity to help out my curiosity and intelligence instead

(42:55):
of it going in the drain and in the toilet
by watching some of these shows I do? It does
hit me, which I get it. Sometimes you just need
to check out and watch something dumb, and I'm all
for that. But if you just do it multiple times
a week and it's like, what else are we gonna watch?
I can't convince her to watch like the Diamondbacks game.
So yeah, it's tough man, first world problems. The NBA

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Speaker 2 (45:13):
Why would the NBA put Game seven of the Nuggets
Thunder at three point thirty Eastern on a Sunday? There
was nothing on TV last night, and I'm barely paying
attention because I'm locked into rom and Bryson try to
beat Scottie. Am I missing something? I do believe big
picture that Saturday night Sunday is a much better television

(45:34):
day than Saturday or Saturday night. So if you could
choose where to put your product, you would rather put
it on Sunday than Saturday if you have a primetime
big game. But I don't know. I'm with you. I
also didn't mind giving an extra night's rest, so like

(45:55):
no one could have any excuse. Now, granted Aaron Gordon
got it injured, but no. I also think if you're
in the NBA, you can't constantly worry you know what's
on television beside it, like sometimes you just got to
put your games where you want to put your games. Plus,
they're in bed with ABC and ESPN. It's like I
would imagine that network dictates it a little bit, like

(46:17):
they want something to put on so someone watches their
network on Sunday. Plus, I think didn't they have a
on sat was win a Caitlin Clark play Saturday? Was
that on ESPN? Since you worked in the NFL outside
of the head coach and GM, what are the most

(46:37):
important positions in an NFL organization From your time in
the NFL, is there a certain department or position that
is underrated? Well, if you, I would go the coaching staff.
I think the offensive line and defensive line coaches. Like
you have some position coaches that are more important than others.
You know, your tied end coach can be pretty replaceable.

(46:59):
You know, dB coaches get fired all the time, but
your offensive and defensive line coaches are pretty important. I
think outside of just your scouts and your coaches and
your owner, I would say your trainer plays a pretty
big role. You know, your strength staff probably was a

(47:20):
bigger deal A long time ago. Now because all these
guys have their own kind of operation, and some veteran
guys don't even do the lifts that the team wants
them to do. It's not like the team's gonna fight them.
I would say one for me personally, that has really exploded.
When I was with the Eagles, they were one of

(47:41):
the first organizations that did a lot of stuff on
the website. They had Dave Spadero that they're like hosted
shows basically like Eagles content on the website. And now
it's morphed into you go to some of these teams
content that they did during the draft. It's fantastic and

(48:01):
I think the power of these owners or whoever's in
charge of that, the team presidents, that has been a
revelation and an addition to football that is pretty cool
because we all know hard knocks is nowhere near what
it once was. But like I watched the other night

(48:22):
when again Maria's watching the Mom talk show, which has
its moments. I'm not gonna lie, they just had like
this episode where they have again, all these women are Mormon,
they all have multiple kids by the time they're in
their mid twenties and they're having like Sex Instructors coming,
it's a trip. But I watch while the show was

(48:44):
on on my phone, Kevin O'Connell and QUESI basically the
Vikings had like a thirty minute episode on just their
draft night, and I think that stuff didn't exist. So
whoever's in charge of that around the NFL is clearly
like that's cool and that's really important, you know, to
keep growing the base of the league's fan base, which

(49:06):
provides all the money. Without the fans, this the business
is not what it is. But also like satiate people
in the off season when not much is going on.
I do think the guy, whether it's your team president,
whether it's whoever's in charge of kind of like if
you own the stadium, whoever is in charge of all
the business that goes around that can help make the

(49:28):
organization a lot of money and in return that leads
to football. I mean, one of the reasons Jeffrey Lurie
can spend so much cash over the last couple of
years on his team because that team is making so
much money on the concerts and everything coming through the
Lincoln Financial Field. I remember Don Similenski, who's the president now,
who was like the number two when I was there,
who might have became the president my last year talking

(49:51):
to him about like Taylor Swift And this is fifteen
twelve years ago, you know, Kenny Chesney, whoever. All these
huge acts would come through, and the business for that
was such a cash cow for these teams. You know whatever, WrestleMania,
the Final Four, you name it. I don't know if
the final four play outside, but you know what I mean,

(50:11):
just World Cup, just huge events like that that is
ways to generate a ton of money. That leads right
back to paying players and paying coaches a lot of money.
So getting involved of the business outside of football, but
utilizing your stadium, whoever does that in the building is
really really important. And if I owned a team, obviously

(50:33):
your coach, your GM, your contract negotiator, like they're the
lifeblood of your organization, but your team president who is
running point on all the business not just for the
football team, but for you know, what's going on in May, June,
July at your stadium where you are, if you run
it well, printing cash is really really an important individual.

(50:57):
I've been listening to you since start a season of
the conversation between you and Coln I'm curious about the
Steelers quarterback situation with Rogers out of the Take Rogers
out of the equation and we start Mason Rudolph. Do
you think at any point, if Rudolph starts to fail,
there's a chance we see Will Howard get some snaps

(51:17):
If you have time thoughts on Howard. I didn't watch
a lot of college this season, I would say that
if Rogers does not show up, which would feel a
little crazy, but I mean we're May nineteenth and he
hasn't signed, I would say one million percent Will Howard
could play. I remember watching Ohio State early in the year.

(51:40):
In Ohio State's one of those teams that unless they're
in like a tight game at half, I mean, they
destroy so many people that you really got to pay
attention to them when they're playing Oregon, when they're obviously
playing Michigan, and if they're in a close game, but
over the course of the last several years, like they
destroy a lot of people. So you watch Will Howard

(52:01):
early in the season, now he's a transfer quarterback, You're like,
I don't really see it. And then the Michigan game happens,
and honestly, they could have lost against Nebraska. It's games
like that you're like, wait, you almost turn it on
if you're not a diehard Ohio State fan, like are
they going to lose? Because it would be shocking? And
I remember thinking of that game like what is going on?

(52:22):
And the Michigan game was an embarrassment. But it turns
out like that might have been more in the coaching
staff trying to run it on two top fifteen defensive tackles.
And then they got to the playoffs and they let
him sling it around because they have elite wide receivers.
I mean, they just had a guy go whatever, pick nineteen.
He's not even the best wide receiver on the team,

(52:42):
so they let him sling it around. And let's face it,
I would say no player, no player at any position,
had as good of a playoff run as Will Howard,
And you could argue, I guess last year was the
first year of the playoffs. That's as good of a
run as you're gonna see. I mean, he was dominant.

(53:05):
To see if they have his stats for the playoffs, No,
they don't, because it's all I could look it up,
but I don't want to waste time right now. I
liked him in that stretch. I remember early in the
season thinking, I don't really see it. Kind of reminded
me of like a Riley Leonard, high character, good athlete,
tough kid, can make some plays, but it's like, this

(53:27):
guy's not an NFL guy that by the end of
the season. If he had had this stretch that he
had against Oregon, Tennessee, Notre Dame and those throws all
season long, I think he go he's going on the
second day of the draft. I just looked up. He's twenty.
It's not like he's twenty eight years old. You know,
he's he'll be twenty four this fall. He's an older player,

(53:48):
but I was pretty impressed. I watched a little of
him with Gruden too. He seems like a pretty high
level cat. Question for the can a franchise ever get
their shit together if they have a crappy owner, if

(54:08):
you have someone like Vvek running the Kings, is there
any hope or are you going to be like the
Oakland Athletics who have fans wearing sell T shirts to
the games in Sacramento, a flipping Triple A stadium. Curious
to know your perspective on this topic. I actually talked
to someone the other day who was in a golf

(54:30):
group with a minority owner for a pro franchise, and
I guess this guy, once they had a cocktail, just
started unloading on the guy. That is the quote unquote
controlling owner crushing. And this is an owner that I
would say most people that follow that team would consider

(54:52):
a loser, like a clown, like a guy that if
they could fire him, they would, But you can't. And
I think sometimes you get these situations where you have
Tom Brady or whoever. You know, there are some teams
that have an owner with fifteen to twenty thirty percent steak,
but if they don't have the majority steak or the

(55:12):
controlling steak, they're completely irrelevant. They are just a fan
who gets a dividend at the end of the year.
So you can't fire owners. Jed York actually said this
several years ago. You don't get to so as a fan,
what sucks is like if you get Jeffrey Lury, if

(55:34):
you get Steve Bushatti, if you get the Roonies, if
you get Mickey Errison, right, if you get Joe lacub,
you get some of these guys like they will do whatever,
say what you want, like I was gonna defend Jimmy
has them for a minute, but it's hard. Clearly he
makes some terrible decisions, but at least it's not like, well,
he's a fucking idiot. He forces us to make personnel decisions,

(55:57):
and he's cheap, like at least he will pay for players,
like he will give an unlimited amount of money. Right,
you could argue those guys are the worst. Dan Snyder
was a little like that too, But they make or
break organizations. It's proven now, like we have a long
history of they're the most important guy in the building
because they answered to nobody. Like at the end of

(56:19):
the day, when Sirianni shows up to work like he's
got a play ball with Howie and he's got to
answer to Jeffrey Leary. That will never change when Jeffrey
Leary walks in the building, just like when Jim Dolan
walks in the building. When any of these owners they
answer to nobody. Everyone in that building stands at attention

(56:43):
when they walk down the hall. Maybe not literally, but
you understand what I'm saying. The one lone guy who
would like kind of talk shit back to the owner
and definitely didn't really listen to him, was Belichick, and
look how that thing ended. They ran his ass out
of town. So I don't there's no recourse. And it's

(57:06):
why I have supported fans that once you get to
a certain situation, like if you're a Jets fan and
it just goes really poorly the next couple of years,
Like if eron Glenn can't figure this out. As long
as Woody owns a team, I think you have a
pretty long history now of like this is probably not
gonna go that well, there's gonna be a tough situation.

(57:27):
I mean, look at Jerry now, he's probably the worst
case because he's picking the players. He's this adamant on
being very involved, and I think the best owners are
like involved but also empower the people running their organizations

(57:48):
might push thing on. Vivek would be using the Kings example.
The Kings have always been a second rate organization. I
don't think that would change even if you got rid
of VEC. Now you go, well, are you just saying
because it's a small market. Look at OKC, they have
been really really well run because that owner hired Presty
a long time ago and says you run the show. Buddy.

(58:11):
I think sometimes in basketball more than football, you get
Sam Presty, you got Bob Myers, you get obviously pat Riley,
you get some of these guys like you do whatever
you want to do. That's pretty rare in football. Belichick's
probably the last guy who truly got that, I mean

(58:32):
truly got like Bill got to do whatever you got
to do, wanted to do. Like those days are probably done,
you know. And it's the one shitty thing about I
didn't see this. I spent less and less time like
on Twitter and just the internet in general, like over
the weekend. Turns out the Knicks fans took a lot

(58:56):
of shit for celebrating beating the Celtics. It's like what
we talking about, guys, was that really a thing they
couldn't celebrate outside beating the defending champs, a team that
nobody gave them any chance to win, and then you
beat them in New York going to the conference finals
where you're hosting, you get to celebrate that. And part

(59:20):
of it is like if you're a fan, especially if
you're older like my age, not a twenty two year old,
you're like, we have been watching Jim Dolan for a
long long time who basically had turned into some version
of Daniel Snyder. Yet I love the Knicks, and once
they get good, like I want to watch them. There

(59:41):
is a power and I don't have it as much
as I did when I was a little kid, but
I am still drawn to forty nine or news. When
the forty nine ers are on TV. I don't get
the same emotion I got when I was like seventeen,
but I'm more likely to. Maybe it's just there who
I follow and stuff on social media that I just

(01:00:01):
feel like I'm more dialed into them. And maybe it's
just more you know, inclined, and just my natural inclination
is drawn to them. So I can't even speak that.
If I was like still in my die hard fandom,
I could totally get it and having a crappy owner.
When you love something so much that you have no

(01:00:24):
control over that you actually pay for, there's probably not
many things in life that you would be as loyal
to as most people that listen to this. If you're
a fan of the New York Giants or the Commanders Forever,
or pick any shitty team in any other element of
your life, right, you wouldn't consistently go to a restaurant

(01:00:46):
that once was your favorite restaurant that then had awful
food for a decade plus, you would stop going to
that restaurant after a certain amount of time. Right in
any other business that you who were the customer, you
would stop if that customer, service, or whatever they were
you were buying from them was bad. Why do we

(01:01:09):
go to Amazon so often? It's cheap, easy, and just
if something goes wrong, you just end it back. Doesn't
get any easier. You could argue it's the most customer
friendly business in the history of my life. Honestly, I
don't eve think there's a close second. It does not
get any easier to operate. You can say Apple is
a great product. You've ever been to an Apple store?
Pain in the fucking ass. I went to Whole Foods

(01:01:31):
today because I had to drop something off from Amazon.
It turns out they didn't even open till nine. While
I'm there at eight, It's like, well, you can do
a self checkout, press a button, scan it, drop it off.
Like how easy does this get? But the reason I
keep paying Amazon for you name it soap to I
don't even know food. You eat everything. I mean, we

(01:01:55):
get a package from Amazon seven days a week. Why
because they are credible. If they sucked, we would stop
right Yet with football, with basketball, with baseball, if you
love a team, okay, listen, I had a front row seat,
Like I didn't grow up an Oakland fan, and I
saw the A's and the Raiders. Like that sucks if

(01:02:20):
you were my age and you grew up in the
eighties and the nineties and you watch these teams and
now they one place in Sacramento in a Triple A
stadium and the other uh in that Triple A stadium
when I was in high school was built and it
was a really big deal because the Triple A team
at the time was the Sacramento Rivercats, who were the

(01:02:40):
A's affiliate. Well, this is like the height of the
A's and the early two thousands. They had all the
sweet players. So you went to a Rivercats game, it
was like watching a bunch. Like seven of their nine
guys starting were future big leaguers. I went in high school,
it's went it open. It was cool, and now the
A's it used to played the Yankees there. And I
had a buddy who actually plays now for the river Cats,

(01:03:02):
who are the Giants affiliate, and I said, is the
field bad? He's like, well, last year it was by
far the worst field in all of Triple A that
we played it. It didn't get any worse. It's way
better now, but it still sucks. And I said, would
you rather play at the Triple A stadium if you
were a big leaguer or at the Oakland Coliseum, which

(01:03:24):
is a historic dump? I mean, the Oakland Colisseum is
as big of a dump as any stadium in America
in twenty twenty five. He didn't even hesitate. He's like,
I would much rather play at the Coliseum, not even
talking about the amenities, just the field. But that's who
you're in business with as a fan, and there's nothing
you can do about it. So I feel for you, guys.

(01:03:44):
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3 & Out - Nick Sirianni EXTENDED, Fred Warner gets PAID, Owners meetings topics

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}3 & Out - Nick Sirianni EXTENDED, Fred Warner gets PAID, Owners meetings topics