3 & Out - WF Head Coach Jake Dickert stops by, Why hate Nico, Rating the upcoming WR class - 3 and Out with John Middlekauff

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
The volume. What is going on everybody? How are we
doing today? We do something that we don't usually do.

(00:21):
We don't have that many guests on this show. Might
change in the offseason. But we have coach Dickert, who
is the head coach of Wake Forest, but who coached
cam Ward for two years at Washington State. He was
the head coach of Washington State. Cam Ward was there
last year. He coached John Mattier, who was one of
the biggest transfer portal quarterbacks, left Washington State to Oklahoma

(00:47):
for seven figures. He also was an assistant coach for
Wyoming Josh Allen's senior year. So this guy's this guy's
seen a lot of quarterbacks and we will dive into
everything nil scouting reports. He played ash and genty this year.
Genty went for about two fifty on Washington State and
four touchdown. So we'll talk to him about that as

(01:08):
well as some other stuff. And we will also do
a big mail bag at John Middlecoff. At John Middlecoff
is the Instagram Fire in those dms and get your
questions answered here on the show at John Middlecoff Instagram
Fire into those dms. Other than that, yeah, fired up
for Coach Dickert and some mail bag and you guys

(01:30):
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(01:53):
Coach Dickert, you know, I gotta tell you about my friends,
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last minute ticket's lowest price is guaranteed. Okay, very very
excited to be joined by the Wake Forest head coach.
And for several years it came from Washington State where
he coached cam Ward. And we'll get into he might

(03:21):
be a quarterback guru even though he's a defensive guy,
but his roote swide receiver offensive guy. Coach Dickard, how
you doing.

Speaker 2 (03:28):
John's a pleasure to be on you know, obviously exciting
time to be here at Wake before is just getting
our program rolling. But it's a crazy time of college football.
And we're in the best profession you could ever be in.

Speaker 1 (03:40):
How's you know what's crazy? I was looking, you know,
you go to a coach's Wikipedia, and I watched some
of the interviews you did. I mean, like most people
coming up, you had what I saw, you say, seven
jobs in eight years or something. Crazy. If I would
have told you a decade ago that you'd be headed
into the twenty twenty five season, you'd be coaching against
Bill Belichick, would you have thought you were the coach
of the New York Jets.

Speaker 2 (04:02):
Well, I was a big Packer fan Chiefs had growing up,
so I would take that. At the at the least,
My goal was to be a math teacher and coach
at Kimberly High School, right, so to be able to
swerve into college and to make this climb up college football,
you know, started that Division III. John I was the
graduate assistant that was painting the lines, that was doing
the video, that was half equipment guy.

Speaker 3 (04:24):
You know, DB's coach.

Speaker 2 (04:25):
And just gotta to be around the right people at
the right time and work my way all the way up.
And I got a unique perspective, right, there's a thin
line between playing at all these levels and I think
sometimes the transfer portal shows that now. But at a
great place here in wake Forest and an amazing league
in the ACC and ready to compete, do you you.

Speaker 1 (04:44):
Know, you're it was fair to call you a Midwest
guy at heart coaching Dakotas for a long time and
then spend some time on the West Coast going to
Wake Forest. Obviously, it's an incredible opportunity and a big,
you know, big conference. Is that just in the landscape
of college football? Now you're write a program that. I mean,
I'm from Sacramento area, so the Pac twelve grew up

(05:05):
going to Memorial Stadium Cow games, and that conference disappeared
on your watch when you were in it, and you
were on the wrong side of that. I mean, uh,
because I'm a big believer sometimes in regions with coaches
you know, you know, so this is a pretty big move.
But given the opportunity was just something you couldn't say
no to.

Speaker 2 (05:25):
Oh, it's one of those things down as you look
at the landscape of college football, you know, for the
West Coast to lose a prestigious West Coast league, I
still think to this day is still a shame, right
for those kids, for those fans for regional rivalries, for
everything that comes with the pageantry and passion of college football.
You know, you kind of step back when this opportunity
came up. You start looking at the portal. You start

(05:48):
seeing the region of the Pacific Northwest being harder, you know,
to get some kids to be able to come there.

Speaker 3 (05:54):
And you know, the.

Speaker 2 (05:55):
One double as the group of fives. You know, ninety
percent of those leagues are coast on down the South
into Texas, and you got to be where the people are.

Speaker 3 (06:04):
And I think that's just kind of what this came into.

Speaker 2 (06:06):
And the more I studied about Wake Forest, the more
I discovered they're ready to win, right. And I think
the one thing is that no one expects anything about
what we are. We're the winning this program in P
four in the state of North Carolina in the last
twenty five years. We're the only one in the state
to win an ACC championship. Have been playing another right,
so it has been done. I get to stand on

(06:28):
a program that has a great foundation that's committed to
winning in this region of the country in North Carolina
is a big part.

Speaker 3 (06:35):
Of why we're here.

Speaker 1 (06:37):
Well, I want to talk a little bit about your background.
I'm always fascinated by You were a wide receiver in college. Correct,
a D three wide receiver.

Speaker 3 (06:46):
I look like a fullback now. John. It's a tough bridge, but.

Speaker 1 (06:50):
Your background, the highest level in what you played was offense.
But then your coaching career takes off on defense and
you came up and became a head coach and you're
defensive guy. But your offenses, I mean in Washington State
you had cam Ward for a couple of years, I
mean have been fantastic. Is that something. Did you ever
look to pivot as your career was taken off or

(07:11):
did you just get so in deep it was like
it's like a relationship with the ladies, like yeah, she
just might be the one and you just let them rip.

Speaker 2 (07:17):
Well, I think unique story. Like I played offense. My
brother was still on the teams when I came back
to be a GA. Our head coach was like, you
can't coach on the same side as your brother. So
I ended up thinking I was just gonna do the
defensive thing for a year. The greatest opportunity in my
life came as a graduate assistant under Craig Bowl, my
greatest mentor in North Dakota State, and I learned a

(07:38):
system of defense, and I just learned to fit my personality.

Speaker 3 (07:41):
I'm a math guy. I see things a certain way.

Speaker 2 (07:44):
You got to be a problem solver as a defensive coach,
and I just started to work my way up college
football and I just enjoyed it. You know, offense is
almost too easy, John, right, But I know when we
took over the head job at Washington State, you gotta
be able to score points. The rules are in so
the offenses can go out there and win, and quarterback
is a premium position. And you know, I got to

(08:05):
see Josh Allen's senior year at the University of Wyoming
when I was there coaching obviously cam Ward for a
couple of years at Washington State. Followed that up by
a you know, really a Heisman campaign of John Mattier
there last year. Where we're at, so we see some
really high offenses and you know, while we get to
put our stamp on a little bit different because I

(08:26):
think we have one of the best players in the
country here in Demon Claiborne that no one talks about
it running back. So we're gonna be able to do
it again. Just do it in a little bit of
different fashion.

Speaker 1 (08:34):
Well, I want to talk about that. It's fair to
say one of your big breaks was getting hired at
Wyoming I think in twenty seventeen a safety coach. That
means you know you're going up against the offense, especially
in training camp. And you have Chris Mortensen and had
that tweet after the draft to basically keep an eye
on Josh Allen. So the hype was there. When you
have the job, What was that experience like coaching your

(08:56):
DBS every day against Josh Allen, who was probably letting
hun mon Our fastballs just rip all over layer of
me Wyoming.

Speaker 3 (09:03):
It's one of those things, especially in the thin air.

Speaker 2 (09:05):
I walked out to the first practice and you hear
the hype of Josh and obviously what he did the
year before, he threw his first field side comeback to
the bottom of the numbers, and it was unlike anything
I've ever seen.

Speaker 3 (09:16):
A frozen rope. There's no lob to it.

Speaker 2 (09:19):
And the biggest thing though about John or why I
knew he was going to be successful, is that just
the person he was, he knew he was a first
round draft pick. The way he carried himself in the
locker room. The leadership abilities Josh possessed was just and
he didn't have the greatest season, and scouts would come
around and they'd ask, you know, what do you think.
I said, guys, take him right, don't worry about his footwork.

(09:40):
He's a playmaker, he's a competitor. He has that it
factor in the locker room, and these guys love to
play for him. It was just it was different. And
to see him go out there and have tons of
success in the NFL, it's like that that's what it takes,
is more than just a great.

Speaker 1 (09:53):
Arm because one of the knocks, like you said that
the stats weren't that great, but you guys had just
lost right, his number one wide receiver, I think, a
tight end and maybe a running back or like a
lot of his skill guys from the previous year were gone.
A couple of them played in the NFL, so I
mean they were high end guys. It was a pretty
big loss.

Speaker 2 (10:08):
Yeah, he lost an NFL center, tight end, receiver, tailback right,
so he carried the shoulder of the load. We were
really good defensively, and I thought we played well as
a team, and we had seven nflers on our side
of the football. So, I mean, Josh was just a special,
unique talent and it really showed like what it takes
to play that position at a premium level. And you know,

(10:29):
he knew he came back in the bowl game he
was going to be a first round pick. A lot
of kids wouldn't do that, right, just showed his kind
of love and passion to play this game.

Speaker 1 (10:37):
Did your experience being around Josh impact the recruitment because
you were the full time head coach by the time
you recruited cam Ward correct, yep.

Speaker 2 (10:46):
Yeah, and it was a unique situation. We knew we
needed to make a change. Cam was the best, obviously
portal target on the market. We hired his head coach
as our offensive coordinator, and it was amazing just getting to.

Speaker 3 (10:58):
Know him and his family. To know Cam is to
know his mom and dad, right.

Speaker 2 (11:03):
His mom is one of the toughest recruiting moms I've
ever been around.

Speaker 3 (11:07):
Ms Patrice. She's great.

Speaker 2 (11:09):
Every time I saw her, she would come up to
me and say, Coach, you better be coaching Cam hard.
You better not be allowing him to just look past
some of these mistakes. And I think that's the foundation
of the way he grew up his story being a
wing tea quarterback, coming out of high school only having
the one offer, and then coming by us where we
weren't established enough on offense, we lost a lot, right,

(11:32):
so he carried the load. He's one of the most
competitive people I've ever been around Zoon. I mean that
from the way he carries himself, to the way he practices,
to the way he attacks things. And I believe he
grew up a lot in his two years at Washington State.

Speaker 1 (11:46):
Was that the first year of the transfer portal when
you landed him, was that take a first.

Speaker 2 (11:50):
Year, but it was the first kind of big year.
You know, there still was only a one time transfer,
you know. I think even after you know, Eric left
to go be the head coach at North Texas, you know,
he had to stay because he didn't graduate yet. But
it's one of the best things that ever happened to him,
John Is because he now came under coach Rbuckles the oct.

Speaker 3 (12:09):
Oklahoma and he had to learn a new drop.

Speaker 2 (12:12):
He had to be with someone else in the room,
and I think we just changed a lot of his
habits and mechanics, and I think he learned going through
that process. The first ten practices or so from that
first spring in twenty twenty three, it was a little sloppy,
and then finally when we got everything in sync, you know,
you're seeing some of the highlight plays and cam is
as good as it gets.

Speaker 1 (12:33):
What was your guy's connection? I know you were hiring
the coach, but how do you from Washington State? I mean,
I fall football and done this for a living for
Incarnate Word. Like how because I remember talking to an
assistant GM and he was going to go to the
West Coast and because Camp had already played two years
that he would have been draft eligible. He's like, I'm
watching this kid from Incarnate Word. I've never even looked

(12:53):
at this program, and he's really really impressive. But it's
easy to say now, but looking back at the time,
how does he even come on your radar? And how
does that all materialize? Well?

Speaker 2 (13:04):
I think just the whole recruiting process is obviously very unique.
I mean, coaches are tied to players, right, but we
also had to share our vision of what he could
do at Washington State, which when you look at their
hierarchy and their Mount Rushmore quarterbacks just coming off of
Minshew Mania, and she Letso and Ryan Leaf, and there's
been a great history of a bunch of quarterbacks. You know,

(13:24):
Luke Folk is the all time leading passer, you know,
so we sold a vision of also an offense that.

Speaker 3 (13:30):
He could come in and continue and enhance.

Speaker 2 (13:33):
And then my job as the head coach is, hey,
my job is to add value right from a defensive side,
a defensive lens, a high performance, you know, mental ability
that we needed to get him to to play at
that level. Everything was happening really fast, right, so I
think to get his family on board and to know
that they supported him. He was going to a region
of country, he had no idea about his first time

(13:55):
going away from home. So I thought he handled all
those little things that really high fashion.

Speaker 1 (14:01):
What would your scattering report be on camp Ward?

Speaker 2 (14:04):
I think the biggest thing, you know, we feel that
a lot of a lot of phone calls because I
think we've got a unique perspective just based on you know,
we weren't the ones that found him, We weren't the
ones that he ended with. Is just kind of that
in between session and you know, I come back, like
I said, the competitiveness, right, Like I said, I've seen
Josh I've seen John Mattier see some high level guys.
His anticipation in seam throws is unlike anything I've ever seen.

Speaker 3 (14:29):
His confidence to throw it in any spots.

Speaker 2 (14:31):
And his escapability, right, there's run ability in quarterbacks, there's
escapability and creativity. His is off the charts, okay. And
I think he's learned a lot about that that. You know,
protecting the ball, taking care of those little things is
what makes great quarterbacks who they are. But he's gonna
walk into a locker room and they're gonna respect him
because of the work, his competitive nature and what he

(14:54):
brings to the table. And I think you're gonna be
able to trust that man. And I think that's an
important characteristic. And I believe John's the number one pick
in the draft.

Speaker 1 (15:02):
Yeah, I think by all accounts he's going to be.
So that's your quarterback room for those two years when
he was there. John Materi's now the starting quarterback at Oklahoma.
Who was your quarterback last year? You know cam Ward
part of it, you saw you landed him, and then
last year the situation when he kind of dabbled in
the draft and then it ended up traditioning transferring to Miami.

(15:24):
Was that a re recruitment process for you or is
that one of those financial situations in this modern day
college football that a little out of your control at
a certain point.

Speaker 2 (15:34):
I mean, it was always the plan, even I'm being
honest with you, John, I've we talked to Cam him
and his family were incredible. I think when you're at
that level and you have a starting quarterback for two years,
that's what's going to happen.

Speaker 4 (15:45):
Right.

Speaker 2 (15:45):
And then obviously John, we felt extremely confident that we
had the next guy, you know. And then obviously as
things continue to matriculate, John's top ten and the Heisman,
you know. I think it's a unique story where you
just got to continue to plan and know that some
these things are gonna happen.

Speaker 4 (16:01):
Right.

Speaker 2 (16:02):
John Mitteer is a unique story where he was going
to go to Central Arkansas before we offered him. All right,
he took an official visit to New Mexico State, right.
But John is one of those guys is very first
fall camp. I'm going home at ten PM. I look
down on the field in the dark. There's John Mattier
rehearsing place for the next day. Okay, there are secrets

(16:23):
to success that ultra high performers leave behind in a trail,
And I thought that was mates John, who was completely
different player than Cam. That's why he's going to be
successful in his own way, right, the competitive nature, how
smart he is, how tough he is, how much he
can get one hundred and five guys to go, you know,
behind him and play for him. He is super special.

(16:43):
So and then we were about a week away. I
was telling you this off air from Land and Sam
Levitt right, which had no other offers besides Washington State
and was committed to us to a long period of
time before Michigan State came in a week before signing days.
So we've had a great run of finding those guys
that really you can go out in college football and
be really successful.

Speaker 1 (17:03):
You know forever, if you're not at you know, Ohio
State or Texas or whatever.

Speaker 4 (17:07):
I mean.

Speaker 1 (17:08):
Even Nick Saban was losing coaches all the time. When
you hire a coach, I remember Mike Gundy used to
talk about this a lot. He was getting so frustrated
hiring bigger coaches, so he started going to smaller schools.
But then those guys, even after maybe one year, would
still get poached. Now you have to worry about not
just the offensive coordinator as a defensive guy, but also
the quarterback they're going as a package deal. I know

(17:28):
the Wake four situation kind of materialized. It's fair to
say a little later in the process. Is there a
time last season when you're like, how are we going
to keep this quarterback? Because you just know the landscape
of college football, which five six years ago, or even
when you first got involved at Wyoming, no one taught
it didn't even exist. It was. It almost feels like

(17:49):
like the nineteen fifties or something, doesn't it. I mean,
you've you've been living in it, but that feels like
a long time ago.

Speaker 4 (17:55):
It does.

Speaker 2 (17:55):
I think the biggest thing is as the season kept coming,
I've never done an amazing job as a program that
we put a seven figure deal in front of.

Speaker 1 (18:02):
John r that's so I heard on the internet.

Speaker 2 (18:05):
That's that's incredible, And there were so many people that
stepped up there. I'm so proud of like all that
helping those resources. But you gotta just, like anything else,
draw a line. And then I think through the kid,
through their family, through their agency, all the things that
they have to go through. A lot of pressure on
these kids. John, right, you start talking about those type
of numbers. His loyalty us in our organization was high

(18:27):
and I never doubted or questioned John one time. I
think we built a tremendous relationship. Uh we still have one.
I think those things are really really important, you know,
but you look at even our time at Washington State.
You know we didn't do so well at the end
of the season, and those are the things. As a
head coach, I learned that the focus needs to be high.
You know, these kids are taking in offers, you know,

(18:49):
they're getting recruited, Like, how do you navigate those things?
And I think that's a unique challenge that you know,
I got to find a better way as of a
head coach to make sure that I can keep everyone focused.

Speaker 1 (18:59):
So going through that sperience with you know, multiple quarterbacks, really,
when you when you're interviewing at wake Forest, how big
of a topic is the NIL I know it potentially
is going to change who knows what the revenue sharing,
So it might be somewhat of a moot point, but
at least in the in the immediate was that top
of mind for you?

Speaker 3 (19:17):
It's now the first question.

Speaker 2 (19:18):
You know you go through I mean, I think we
had five of the top one hundred players or so
two hundred players on the portal where our kids at
Washington State. So when you find them, when you develop them,
you know, when they have no stars and then they
turn into these players, you got to have resources to
keep them because you have built the relationships that you
can stand on and you understand the family. So that's
the first question I asked at Wake Forest. Are we

(19:40):
ready to invest? And it was an overwhelming yes from
a university standpoint, border region's standpoint, trustees, boosters like everyone's
ready to be there. And you know, the collective nil
piece has been hard for a lot of programs, right,
And you know, I think that's why I'm here also too,
because there's a transactional piece that has come into our game.

(20:03):
You have to accept it. You have to know why
it's great for young people and their families. But you
have to stay transformational, right. You have to do it
an old school a relationship way to understand these are
eighteen to twenty three year old kids that need our
mentorship now more than ever.

Speaker 3 (20:18):
And when you lose that, man, are our game is
gonna fall? With it right.

Speaker 2 (20:22):
So we gotta find ways to make sure we preserve
the greatest game ever and find ways to make sure
we're mentorshipping with these kids the best way.

Speaker 1 (20:37):
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Speaker 1 (22:27):
You know, I think about this lot having you know,
worked for Pat Hill and seen at Fresno State, and
we had so many good players and just going if
this was twenty twenty five, not two thousand and nine
or ten. Would they have stayed. I mean, you've been
in that world now once the Pac twelve kind of
dissolved in Washington State and Oregon State got the short
end of the stick, which is sad because you know
how much they care about football. Can those programs even

(22:49):
boise that? I think they were pretty outspoken that Ashton
gent to you. I definitely need to ask you about
Uh just turned down a lot of money to stay,
and I think it's fair to say that's an outlier
situation moving forward. But is that kind of going to
become the minor league system of college football?

Speaker 2 (23:06):
I'd really think, John, we're in a dangerous place, right.
And I've been a big proponent of keeping the student
athlete model as long as we can, right. I think
that's important to our game. But I think now we've
gotten to the point where we might need collective bargaining, right,
We might need a certain situation where roster building is
the hardest thing you've ever had to do. Now at

(23:27):
this level, and especially at the group of five. You know,
I would love to see you know, once you sign
a kid out of high school, that's a three year
locked in contract. It's good for the player, it's good
for the university. It's just good for everyone to know.
Then now as a junior, senior, right, the fourth fifth
year guys, you can take advantage and move right, I'd
love to see you know, almost a rookie pay scale.

Speaker 4 (23:49):
Right.

Speaker 2 (23:49):
Those guys coming into your program are slotted at certain levels, right,
so you know at that level, you know, okay, these
are the guys that I'm locked into. These are the
guys that potentially could leave, and you can at least
build a roster.

Speaker 4 (24:03):
Right, there was a point where you know, you don't know,
as any.

Speaker 2 (24:07):
Team, I guess we could. At the same time, you
could lose every running back, every quarterback.

Speaker 4 (24:11):
It just you can't plan. And that could be twice
a year now.

Speaker 2 (24:15):
So whatever level you're talking about, you know, we need
to have a better fixture of like how to build teams.
I support the portal, I support you know, these guys
getting rev share like all that things supported. But from
a team building, roster building management, no matter what level
you're at, we got to get a better handle on
who's doing what we're and how so we can make

(24:37):
sure we're building teams the right way.

Speaker 1 (24:39):
Do you have a philosophy on the pie of money
to go. This is what I think recruits are worth
freshman or worth relative to transfer guy like a cam
Ward in the portal And if so, did you develop
that by talking to people in the NFL to kind
of gauge how to kind of balance the economics of
this world?

Speaker 2 (24:59):
Yeah, I mean we were the first at Washington stated
to go to a GM model. When I got hired
in twenty twenty two.

Speaker 4 (25:04):
You could see where the game was going.

Speaker 2 (25:06):
And our biggest philosophy is you have to pay for production,
not potential. Right, that just has to be part of
what we do. And still stay towards a developmental structure. Right,
find kids at low value, find the traits that you
can develop, put them in what I call the slow cooker.
Life is in a microwave society. Football players want it now.

(25:28):
We got to find the right men that want to
develop and then have the resources later in their career
to stay in. Yeah, every position is a certain you know,
we do it this way, right. You come in at
a lower level once you're a low volume backup. That's
a certain value, high value backup, certain level, low volume starter,
high volume starter and Obviously everyone has those exceptions, right

(25:51):
that you need to make sure you're going to the
top of the market.

Speaker 4 (25:54):
So that's how we need to stay.

Speaker 2 (25:55):
And you know, obviously the current situation of the quarterback
out there shows at time teams now need to know
when to step away. And I think that's the hardest
part because you're emotionally attached to these kids. You know
these kids, right, You've invested a lot in these kids.
So I think there's a balance. You know, We've asked
a lot of different programs. We've been around some other

(26:15):
NFL teams, but their models are different. Because free agency,
they know when kids are up, they know when they
can sign them. There isn't two periods that can happen, right,
So there's some things that you know, even they're like,
you know, that doesn't happen in our world.

Speaker 1 (26:31):
When you got hired, the portal was open, correct, in
the middle of December.

Speaker 4 (26:34):
Well, I think the biggest thing is we got in.

Speaker 2 (26:37):
You know, I was hired December twentieth, right right around there,
so you know it's already been open for two weeks, right.
I like to say we came in at the end
of the draft, right, We're trying to find the best
value for us, you know at that time, and I
thought we did a really good job of that. Right now,
in this cycle, it's always a little bit different.

Speaker 3 (26:54):
You know.

Speaker 2 (26:54):
In Wake four is like we want to get out
of this. We're getting thirty kids a year out of
the portal, right is the handwere dealt. We got to
continue to enhance and run.

Speaker 1 (27:02):
Is that what your number was this fall?

Speaker 4 (27:04):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (27:05):
Yeah, twenty, you know, twenty about twenty and ten twenty
in the fall?

Speaker 4 (27:08):
Ten now and you know that need that number.

Speaker 2 (27:10):
Needs to be from five to ten, and you supplement
the positions on your team that you need to go.

Speaker 4 (27:16):
You know, hans a little bit.

Speaker 1 (27:18):
When you get hired and guys on your own team
or in the portal, it's obviously a whirlwind. How do
you know, It's like you look back, I would have
loved to keep that guy. I just had a lot
going on. I'm trying to hire coaches. Almost feels like
a predicament that's unsolvable at the time.

Speaker 2 (27:34):
If the NCAA asked me, like what you learn from
the transition, I would love to have a ten day
period where your team cannot get in the portal, allow
a new coach to get there, to get established and
at least be able to meet the team. Okay, we
know in today's world, as soon as coach Classon resigned.
You know, every starter on our team was fielding calls

(27:56):
just during that uncertainty period. And that's tough, right, and
just the way it is. I meanyone can complain about it.
I think that's the way college football is structured now.
So I would love a ten day period where just
allow for a conversation to happen, right, And you know,
there's nothing more important than trying to retain a roster
so you can build off it.

Speaker 4 (28:15):
And you know it comes with unique challenges.

Speaker 2 (28:18):
Especially by the time I got hired, every kid was
at home, right, so we had to do that over
zoom and FaceTime, and you know this, you just can't
feel the energy of a new staff that way.

Speaker 1 (28:28):
Okay. I do want to talk about some of the
guys that you've coached against, especially a lot of them
are on offense and you're a defensive guy. I don't
want to bring him a bad memory, but Ashon Jenty,
that's a bad memory right there. Just just talk to
me because he's he's a hot topic. I mean, he
looks from Boise State has a chance to go in
the top six or seven picks. He had a huge

(28:48):
day against you guys, and you're a good defense. But
I mean, in fairness, he did that against everybody. He
did that against Oregon. He was the number one team
in the country. From a game planning perspective, what did
you see against him? And then what in the game
were you're blown away by?

Speaker 2 (29:02):
We really underestimated his speed, Okay, And I go back
to the Oregon tape and you're watching him run away
from those guys, you know, and you're just kind of
watching it.

Speaker 4 (29:11):
And his contact balance is elite guy.

Speaker 2 (29:13):
He is about feels like five to eight, but he
is a bowling ball of athleticism and power and speed.
So he broke more tackles on us, I think than
he did on anybody else, you know, statistically speaking, And
it was his contact balance, the way he finished his
and when he's out in the opening space, you're not
catching him, right. So it was a unique challenge of

(29:34):
trying to find ways and we were in that game
and he broke two big fourth quarter you know, touchdown
runs that just put us away. And it's a unique talent,
but once again a guy that trusted the process the
year before. I mean, you're talking about a backup tailback, right,
and for him to burst on the scene. They always
knew they had that type of talented player, and to

(29:55):
kind of see it all the way through, I think
it is good for college football.

Speaker 1 (29:58):
I mean, Michael Pani's bow, Nick Travis Hunter Shador is
safe to say he was the best player in your
three plus years there at Washington State that you went against.

Speaker 4 (30:07):
We went against Caleb Williams. I'm trying to think of
all the other players.

Speaker 1 (30:11):
It was a quarterback bill at Arizona.

Speaker 2 (30:12):
I'm sure, yeah, I mean I would put Caleb Williams
up there, just I mean, and we held him under
three hundred yards passing, and I don't know if anyone
did that that year. He was just an incredible talent
to do it. Genti's right up there, you know, Pennix.
You know, I still think the offensive line at Washington
that year was just phenomenal. You know, all those players.

(30:33):
So he's right up there, and he deserves everything that's
coming his way. And you know, obviously, you know, I know,
you know, coach Danielson over there a little bit just
speaks to his character, and I think all those things
put together, you know, he's he's right up there as
far as the toughest people we've had to defend.

Speaker 1 (30:48):
Someone asked me about a comp with cam Ward. Do
you think there are some similarities in the way they
play with Caleb little different body types, but.

Speaker 2 (30:56):
Yeah, yeah, And I think that's the one thing Cam
you know, you know, we do these scouting deals and
everyone after the twenty two seasons like, hey, we got
to get his body in order, and he did that.
I think the escapability to wear off script. You know,
defensive coordinators can come in with all these fancy plans, right,
this is how we're gonna run this coverage.

Speaker 4 (31:15):
This covers this coverage.

Speaker 2 (31:16):
But when those guys break down and they playoff script,
there's no defense for that. And I think that's what
makes the quarterbacking special. It's the number one thing when
we start to dive into taking a quarterback, you know,
we make an off script tape.

Speaker 4 (31:30):
That's what makes you elite.

Speaker 2 (31:32):
And I think that's why Cam and the Caleb Williams,
you know, Pennix was a little more pocket pass or
NFL ready that way, but that what makes the special player.
Like I grew up on Brett farv Right, you're gonna
take a lot of the good with the bad sometimes,
and Cam's that way a little bit because he's the
ultimate gun slinger, like he's gonna throw it into some
tight spaces.

Speaker 4 (31:51):
But you need that.

Speaker 2 (31:53):
You can as a head coach saying oh, this was terrible,
and then celebrate him. You know, fourth and sixth against
Oregon in a whirling left handed pass. It goes with it,
and I think there's a style that he plays that
I think is really unique.

Speaker 1 (32:07):
Me and Coward were talking about this the other day.
You know, you and I are similar ages. Forever. It
was the Carson Palmers, the Manning Brothers, the Bradys. You've
been now deep in evaluating high school football. If you
look at the last three or four years, even Pennix
was viewed as a pocket quarterback and then he ran
like four or five two. Same thing with CJ. Stroud.
It's like the the the guy that's six' six that can't.

(32:30):
Move does that guy exist in high school football?

Speaker 2 (32:32):
Anymore he, Exists he's out, there but not a lot
of people are designing offense for that guy because it's hard.

Speaker 1 (32:38):
Right and would you recruit that?

Speaker 4 (32:40):
Guy we would. NOT i mean you have to be able.

Speaker 2 (32:42):
To we're a big Fan john of not having the
same skill sets in the.

Speaker 4 (32:46):
Room, right we got to.

Speaker 2 (32:47):
You, know we signed a kid out Of Steel pizzella
that's five ten and a half ran ten four in high.

Speaker 4 (32:52):
School.

Speaker 2 (32:52):
Right we GOT Dsn purdy that's six' five two and twenty.
Five pounds he got a.

Speaker 4 (32:57):
Rocket, Arm, right well why?

Speaker 1 (32:58):
Is that don't you want a similar? Skill? Set, historically like.

Speaker 2 (33:01):
You know what we, really, don't RIGHT because i think
the best coaches designed the offense to what, they, Have
right and the one trade that will always be in
there is athleticism to threaten, To, Run right that's the,
one trade, not size but it's the athleticism to be
a dual threat and flatten out. The DEFENSE and i

(33:21):
think that's the important pieces of what. They bring like
even can we run cam a?

Speaker 3 (33:25):
Little?

Speaker 2 (33:25):
Bit Right But john mattier opened up a whole different
level of. The offense so you got to be crafty
and creative enough to make sure you're designing it about you,
know whatever the best you know elite trade is of.

Speaker 1 (33:36):
Your QUARTERBACK what i know you Guys played colorado toward
the end of the season two years ago when the team. Was,
struggling Uh was travis healthy in? That game was he?

Speaker 4 (33:46):
Was back He Was.

Speaker 2 (33:48):
Shador sanders, you know he played for about a quarter
and a half and then he wasn't.

Speaker 4 (33:52):
Out There And travis hunter is a unique.

Speaker 2 (33:55):
Skill set now he, caught ah he mossed a couple
of our guys, you know back in the end zone
and scored a couple. Of touchdowns he's, unique player obviously a,
unique Competitor and i'm just excited to see him do
it at the. NEXT level i think there's something that's obviously,
very intriguing and, you know the best is still in front.

Speaker 1 (34:11):
Of him did you think what could be what he
did this year could be done playing all those snaps?
Both ways when.

Speaker 2 (34:16):
It, FIRST started i, was like this, can't, continue right,
you know and to do it at an. Elite level
but to be able to focus, AND develop i think.
IS hard, i think in, my mind how do you
even practice? This right so to be able to, DO
that i think it's so UNIQUE and i think it's
so good for college football now because, of, That though
i've been asked the question about playing both ways. More,
times yeah it doesn't happen. Like that is a once

(34:39):
in a generational type talent that can do those type.
Of Things so i'm just excited to see if he
can continue that at the.

Speaker 1 (34:46):
Next level how often over the last, couple years when
some of these top quarterbacks are, coming out, you know
you're you're a defensive GUY to. Nfl guys pick your
brain About bo Nix Or michael Pennix or chador or
obviously your, own guys but the competition because the way,
you know you're heavily involved in the game plan of
stopping and you did a really. Good job, you know
two YEARS ago i looked at the Scores against oregon

(35:07):
and uh And, against Washington and washington played in the
final and what was what was the? Score there twenty
four to twenty one or something couple of. Years, ago
yeah if you're really laying on sorry bring you Won
The apple cup? This Year, we yeah we had the
ball with three.

Speaker 4 (35:20):
MINUTES left I thought cam was gonna go down and
lead us. To victory it. JUST didn't i.

Speaker 1 (35:23):
Was watching there's a lot of people that ask.

Speaker 2 (35:26):
ABOUT it i thought it was a unique time even in,
that league right that last Year the pac twelve to
have all that type of. Talented, quarterbacks yeah they, do that,
you know they, kind, of hey how how do you see?

Speaker 4 (35:36):
This guy what's What's bo nix's?

Speaker 2 (35:38):
Greatest strength and the best, part is like, you said
they're all different, skill sets they're, all unique, You KNOW
but i think quarterbacking is something where you got to
sit down the guy in the room and you got
to be able, to understand like what makes that guy,
tick right and you got to be able to coach
him to their strengths and. Their abilities so trying to
take away their their best thing that they do is
always something that we. Focused on try to make. Him Uncomfortable,

(36:01):
like panix we knew if we could actually move, his
feet the, analytics said his completion percentage drops from like
he was seventy eight percent down to like. Fifty two
so the whole game plan was about getting pressure in.
His face and we went out THERE and i thought
executed one. Place short Credit to kalon, the bowler he
went for it on fourth and one on his own
twenty seven yard line with.

Speaker 4 (36:22):
The reverse so it was a it was a hell of.

Speaker 1 (36:24):
A game, you, say analytics is it safe to say
you're pretty heavy into. The numbers in terms of, game planning.

Speaker 4 (36:30):
It's huge.

Speaker 2 (36:31):
YOU know i think it's one of those things like
you can create an edge for your program by how
you use and analyze. Those, things okay so even at way,
for us we're, talking about, you know a, sports analytical student,
driven team, you know that can take this unprecedent amount
of information that we, now, have right you can look
up any split any, you know because like, take example

(36:53):
like completion percentage seems like a real thing we all. Talk,
about okay well are you what do you do with a?
A drop what do you do with hey running back
missed a block and he had to just roll out
and throw. It, Away right so when you Look At,
josh allen he was fifty six percent completion percentage his.
Senior year that's all anyone wanted to. Talk, about well

(37:14):
what is the adjustment? Completion percentage what.

Speaker 4 (37:16):
Is the down the field, you know deep?

Speaker 2 (37:18):
Ball, range like there's a lot of different things that
go into an accurate quarterback that one stat doesn't, talk,
About right so there's a lot of THINGS that i
think we use to, our ADVANTAGE and i think that's
kind of been our ace in the whole of finding
some of. These Things, like john the number one thing
we look for in the portal is. Snaps, gained right

(37:40):
that's our own little analytic, to, SAY hey i don't
care If YOUR, Division iii division, two player if you've
played nine hundred and fifty fifteen hundred snaps in, your
career you understand what it takes to go out there
and perform. And play that's relatable to us in the
way we metric our organization and how we build.

Speaker 1 (37:58):
A team you're being inclined to use. The metrics is
that something you learned from someone else or is that
something that naturally.

Speaker 2 (38:04):
You Enjoyed rob schleeger is our, general manager and he's
the smartest Human being i've ever, been around the best,
kept secret in, my opinion in all of, college football
from the biomechanics to, the anthropometrics all these big WORDS
that i learned from HIM that i have no idea what, They, mean,
nie circumference. FEMUR lengths, i mean there's there's things that,
we really, you know put into our process that matters

(38:26):
and why it affects movers and how you see things
and what their growth. Potential is, you know we're not
going to sign the six to six three hundred and five.
Pound kid we're going to sign the six six two
hundred and forty five, pound kid and we're going to
put the sixty pounds. On them and there's all sorts
of metrics that has been proven for us, to, say
hey this kid can get there or this?

Speaker 1 (38:45):
Kid can't you bring him with him with You.

Speaker 2 (38:48):
From, wazoo, Yes yes and he was a j Fors
At wyoming and like you always, knew that we just had,
a special uh just kind of eye for talent. And
evaluation and, you know we've kind of put our own stamp.

Speaker 1 (39:00):
ON things i. Heard you sorry to keep, so long
BUT this i heard you on an interview talking about the.
Recruiting process where it used to be the assistant coaches
were a lot like the scouts for a. College program
that's changed a. Little bit is it's safe to say
that their activity in the recruiting process is probably a
little different than it used. To be and now you
AND the gm work more hand in hand to get

(39:20):
these guys because the money factors, into You don't is
it completely different than it was five?

Speaker 4 (39:24):
Years, AGO yeah i like to say recruiting.

Speaker 2 (39:26):
Is over as, player, Acquisition right and one of the
biggest things we changed and what we sold on what
we bring them away for is is a scouting department and. A.
Vision right so you know we HAVE, the gm the
director of, player personnel the head scouts and. LEAD scouts
i wish they'd allow that personnel to, leave, Campus right
we're Still BEHIND the nfl doesn't ask their, position coach,

(39:50):
you know throughout the year to go scout. Live games
the scouting group. Does that so SO.

Speaker 1 (39:55):
Your gm can't go to a high. School, GAME no
i mean.

Speaker 2 (39:58):
They can't now you can designate them as one as,
the ten but most people have the coaches doing that in.
The spring and, you know as football, has added we
just keep piling it on to the full. Time, Staff
right so allow a little bit, more flexibility, you know
for us in our programs to kind of utilize, our personnel,
you know as we. See FIT and i do think
that would help the lower levels.

Speaker 1 (40:18):
As well that feels like a no brainer move that
your scouting staff can hit the high school while your
coaches stay with your. Current.

Speaker 2 (40:24):
Players, RIGHT yeah I mean i think the one thing
even the calendar of major college football needs completely.

Speaker 4 (40:29):
Be redone let's just take the.

Speaker 2 (40:31):
SALARY cap i mean the salary cap for college Football
runs August. To, august well we all know the Season
is January. To january as far as like building, a
team so there's some unique challenges and all that type.

Speaker 4 (40:44):
Of stuff right when your team.

Speaker 2 (40:45):
Comes Back in january and you might have added twenty
portal players, and, newcomers right that's when the coaches are
on the road recruiting high. School, Guys right so there's
just a big SHIFT that i think we need to
get coaches in, the room the guys that actually go.
Through it a Guy Like craig Boll And nick saban
and all these coaches heading it up and let's let's

(41:06):
formulate a great future for.

Speaker 4 (41:07):
College football do.

Speaker 1 (41:08):
You, feel like at least headed in the? Right direction
were still a lot OF unknown.

Speaker 2 (41:12):
I mean this this is THE biggest, i mean we're
in the place the. Biggest Unknowns, john like until this
house settlement has approved and, goes through who knows what's
gonna happen with collectives and, third parties roster managements one.
Oh five there's more questions. Than ever, and uh, you
KNOW like, i said we have the best game in all.
OF sport i, believe, that uh the excitement of college
football is better THAN the nfl in, my opinion and

(41:34):
we got to preserve what makes, it special and you know.

Speaker 4 (41:37):
It will will there be any more retired numbers than?
COLLEGE football i think it's an.

Speaker 2 (41:41):
AMAZING question i know there's TWO at ceu, going on but,
you know as there gonna be those legendary one place
high school or college players anymore getting the, numbers retired and.

Speaker 1 (41:53):
Especially because that's where you get these relationships with you
with the people you play with and obviously your. Coaching
staff that when you're sixty seventy eighty, years OLD and i,
started thinking some of these guys are transfer. Three times
think how many people? They meet how do you even
keep track?

Speaker 2 (42:06):
Of, that well you know the old you're gonna meet
the best man at. Your wedding you know it's gonna
be harder, to find right?

Speaker 1 (42:14):
For sure well coach the best of luck and keep this,
quarterback train you know rolling, you know because you got
you got a good thing going, defensive guy but a. Quarterback,
GURU well i.

Speaker 4 (42:25):
Appreciate that that's a that's.

Speaker 2 (42:26):
A tag i don't KNOW if i want for to
continue to grind through it and excited about the guys
we have here.

Speaker 1 (42:30):
As, well yeah good luck the rest of the spring
and obviously.

Speaker 4 (42:33):
This fall, Appreciate you john. Go, digs.

Speaker 1 (42:50):
Okay time for a little mail Bag At. John Middlecoff
At john middlecoff Is the instagram fire and those dms
get your questions answered here own.

Speaker 3 (42:58):
THE show.

Speaker 1 (43:01):
I don't KNOW why i just, did that but, BIG
fan i don't understand all the Hate. With nico your
analogy about an average guard doing a holdout makes, complete
SENSE but i feel like the hardcore college football fans
want this to fail so badly because of the anti.
Nil Sentiment If jeremiah smith does a holdout, Next Year

(43:22):
ohio state shouldn't pay Him. QUESTION mark i think that's.
A ridiculous i think. That's ridiculous AS an, ASU fan
I Know sam levitt had some renegotiations this offseason to get.
More money He's a. HEISMAN contender i don't see a problem.
With that he didn't, hold OUT but i bet some
stars will hold. Out, eventually well You Use. Jeremiah smith

(43:45):
he had an elite season as an. Elite player no
one has an issue with him wanting. A raise i
forget the, guy's name but he was a huge Recruit In.
South carolina he's like, the honestly he feels a LITTLE
shiftier I mean, clowney one but like he's like this
generation's Version For South carolina clowney elite. PASS rusher i

(44:06):
remember reading during the season it was like they had
to give him a, huge raise so it didn't become
a problem At the, you know by the time the
portal ended at the end of, the season no one
had an issue with that kid. Was elite no one
has a problem paying the elite's. Elite money but when
you throw one touchdown against good teams and then you

(44:27):
want to raise when you're already being paid, A premium.
I think, You know i'm not counting the Fans because i'm.
With you some people have an issue. With nil some
people just want to see the best players on their.
OWN team i think just someone independent, LIKE me i
don't care. Either way you can make whatever you want,
to make doesn't matter. To ME but i can't judge an.

(44:47):
Individual situation and, YOU know I know nico's camp has
come out and said it was because of. The offense
HE before i, recorded this he just COMMITTED To ucla.
I'm sorry making two million Dollars in tennessee with a
really really good team no state income tax is not
only financially beneficial in the, you know IN, the sec

(45:09):
on a team that was just in, the playoffs with
a coach that's proven he. Could win to Go. To,
ucla now if you just wanted to, go, HOME okay
i won't fault you if you wanted to. Go home
but if this was a business slash, football move it's
insanity that there's no way not a soul from a,
football standpoint and making two plus million Dollars at tennessee

(45:31):
Going to ucla where the Basketball coach mick never stopped
bitch and moan and said that we don't have. Any
MONEY so i think it's fair to assume that he
took a. Pay decrease and That's just i'm just based
on the. Gross number i'm not. Even factoring you, know
what he's Gonna, lose california he's. Gonna take so he
lost a lot. OF money i think it's fair, to

(45:51):
guess take an. Educated guess and from a, football, standpoint
now they won four of their last like, six games
they wouldn't fin they didn't Make. A bowl tennessee was
in the Playoffs Playing, ohio STATE and i would imagine
they were a preseason top. Twelve, TEAM now i Did
See urban meyer come out and Say that tennessee's gonna,
be screwed like who's gonna, play QUARTERBACK which i think

(46:13):
is they could have a big downgrade. At quarterback. Very
TRUE so i. DON'T know i think this situation is.
Just MESSY but i Think from, NICO'S standpoint i hope
it was his decision and not as quote unquote handlers
or his dad, or whatever because they're not the. Ones
playing it's like, when people, YOU know i see this

(46:35):
a lot, in relationships and a lot of you guys
that are my age or older that have seen people go,
through divorces that have seen people just had. Messy breakups,
you know if you're listening to this in, your twenties
as you, live life you're gonna see a lot. Of
things but, no ONE and i mean no one can understand.
Your relationship they're not sleeping with, the person they're not

(46:57):
spending or living with. The person so it's like it's
their life, to lead, you know whether, it's parents whether,
it's brothers whether, it's friends everyone can give their opinions
and takes on, your relationship whether you should get, a
divorce whether you should, get married whether you should, break
up whatever. It is, it's, like well two people are

(47:18):
in the, you know driving the bus and. Riding shotgun
everyone else is just a bystanderd and It's like nico's family.
Or whoever, IT'S like i hope this was the, kid's
decision which is a very very difficult spot to be
in at nineteen twenty eighteen. YEARS old i even saw a.
HEADLINE today i didn't click on, the ARTICLE but i think.

(47:38):
It's fair like what THE headline, I saw i Would
imagine cam was given pretty. Good Advice cam newton, was
like you got to be very careful about getting advice
because a lot of it can. Get bad and it's
why you want to be in business if you're going
to get an agent or people negotiating your deal with
people that know what, they're doing and as a prospect

(47:59):
and a revenue general raider like, he is, you Know,
the Rosenhaus, the CIAS the i Don't Think tom condon
is active As Much, ryan williams that does a lot
of Dudes. LIKE mulgeta i mean there would be a
lot of people that just know what the fuck. THEY'RE
doing i would want to, Be IN but i also

(48:22):
then defend, the, kid like how would he? Know that
it's just, just messy it. Really is giving your background
as a scout For, the eagles could you shed some standout,
you recruited scouted you blew. Your, Way additionally i'd love
to know the key prospects you were directly. Involved scouting,

(48:43):
YOU know i think you know a lot of gms and.
Personnel directors there's not any guy that's got to, get
drafted especially a GUY with i would say fifth. Sixth round,
you know once you get into, Seventh undrafted like IS
the gm watching? Those guys but any guy the top
one hundred and fifty two hundred prospects on your, draft

(49:03):
board not only if you do the AREA like i
only did college, ONE year i Did The. West coast
BUT if i had a player that had a third
round grade, ON them i bet five other people, watched THEM,
the gm THE assistant gm scout that crosschecks watching, that
position and the. College director so by the time you've

(49:26):
watched a player and all these rooms are talking about their.
Draft board, right now most players now that there is
longer you do, an area the more you have a
feel for guys and, your sources and maybe you argue
if the entire room, hates them but for the, most
part you're gonna have some people on the. Guy side

(49:47):
let's just say a polarizing player and, you know Non Like,
travis hunter and some people are arguing, against them and
then you just kind of talk. It OUT but i
think this notion that is like one, guy's idea it's
just not really how it works because so many people
one typically especially, bigger schools LIKE if i Run the

(50:07):
eagles and We have Alabama Or ohio state or whoever
has a lot Of prospects michigan, Last year you're gonna
have multiple human beings go through the program during, the
fall so you have multiple sets of eyes that wright
the group up and then on top of your decision

(50:29):
makers all watching the guy and any factor in the.
Coaching STAFF so i think this notion of like diamonds
in the rough that died when this little thing Called the,
Internet started like the diamond in the rough does not
exist because everyone knows who. Everybody is and now there
might be people in a draft room that don't agree with, the,

(50:50):
PLAYER right i think this guy's better than. You do
but that probably happens all. THE time i was more
active in terms of Fighting For. Andrews anddejo that's my claim.
TO fame I knew Andrews and dejo. Could play he
played in the league for like. Ten years he's playing IN.
The ufl we didn't even have a write up in
the system on Him from Rice. And lewis ridick told me.

(51:13):
He SUCKED whenever i, see him we still make fun
of him.

Speaker 3 (51:16):
For.

Speaker 1 (51:16):
That one just Played for Mike Zimmer vikings cowboys for a,
long time. Big hitter but in terms of like draft guys,
LIKE yeah I Love. Zach ertz, everyone's, like yeah SO?
Do i, YOU know i, WAS like i Don't Think
matt barkley's. That good neither. Do we so now if
the decision maker disagrees, with you it. Doesn't MATTER but

(51:38):
i think this notion that like one guy's pounding the.
Table NOWADAYS now i guess they're, you Know. The eagles
we had a pretty big. Scouting department some scouting departments.
Are smaller do you think it would be a smart
move for the forty nine ers To trade purdy To
the STEELERS. For, tj watt Then the niners Would draft
sanders with their. First round shador seems like the type

(52:01):
of Quarterback that kyle, would like very accurate, and CHEAP
plus Tj And. Nick bosa maybe you're ALLUDING to tj saying,
THE DEUCES i i can't, do that as awesome it
would be to have those two guys coming off the edge,
this Notion and i've seen you're not the first person

(52:23):
ask some version. Of this if Everyone Knew shador sanders
was gonna be as good As, brock perty there is
absolutely no Way The cleveland browns would pass On Shir,
door sanders and Definitely the giants would not. Zero chance
so both those two teams he would never make it.
Past three but no one, knows that including the forty.

(52:46):
Nine ers so you can't take the risk, of like
what if he's not, as good not even remotely, as
good which it's kind of the bird in the. Hand,
thing now there are variables you have to pay, the guy,
but like regardless of the, financial situation you just know
you can win games. With them you do not know
that with Even, cam ward any of these quarterbacks in

(53:08):
this DRAFT so i think there's a big element to.
That there what is to become of the running? Back
Market ashton genty can probably go to the Transfer, Portal
Oregon Texas ohio state and make ten. MILLION dollars i
don't know if you can make, that MUCH but i
hear what, you're saying and be more valuable to a

(53:29):
college team THAN an. Nfl Team, najie harris first, round
pick only made ten million dollars for his rookie contract
for one thousand, yard seasons and most running backs aren't
making it on their third to a third. CONTRACT anyways
i think you're a little bold with your with, your numbers.

(53:51):
YOU know i think the highest paid players in college
football right now are making like two or three. Million
dollars nico is one, of them and. They're quarterbacks so
if you could make ten million dollars for, one SEASON
then i think you would Go To ohio state and.
Do that, you, know heartbeat. NO brainer i think That's
Like cooper, Flag Money caleb. Williams money so it's. Pretty,

(54:12):
rare now it doesn't mean we can't. Get There nigee
harris was a late first. Round pick not only did
he make ten million dollars for his first. FOUR years
i think HE just i don't know what the, guarantee
was BUT so i could be speaking out a TURN
because i saw like nine, million dollars but if the
guarantee was less. Than that, BUT yeah, I MEAN i
i don't know what to. TELL you i. DON'T think

(54:35):
I think blake korm is a. Good example two. Years
ago he stayed when he could have, came out and
he stayed, for money and because, it's, Like well i'm
going to go on the second day of, the draft
but if you're gonna pay me two, million dollars then
it's a no brainer. TO stay i think your numbers
got so big they don't even need to be. That
big who is the one athlete you would choose to

(54:57):
have a one on one? Dinner with and why how
would you react if seid athlete is a complete asshole
to the waiter? Serving y'all that's a. GOOD question i
could take two. APPROACHES here i could, Be like I'll Go.
Peyton manning, you know we'll just, talk life we'll, talk
business we'll, talk football try to become friends. With HIM

(55:19):
or i would Take Like patrick Mahomes Or josh allen
and try to develop and cultivate, a relationship so like
they come on the podcast all, the time and it'd
be incredible for. My business so from a, business standpoint
it would probably be the right move. TO take i
mean Probably Like, Patrick Mahomes, Josh Allen, lamar jackson one

(55:42):
of the top quarterbacks in, The League. DAK prescott, i
mean just on a sure, numbers Basis If dak prescott
is going to be the starting quarterback For the cowboys
for the next, several years going Dinner With, dak prescott
become buddies, with him and having him come on my
podcast all the time would be incredible. For Business, rock purty,
same thing Forty, Nine Ers. JORDAN loff, i mean any

(56:04):
of these quarterbacks and big brands would BE so I
mean i from a, BUSINESS standpoint i would be crazy
not to. Do that from just a, personal standpoint Not
that peyton would be bad, for business but in terms
of guys playing on a, weekly basis if like they
came on my Show, every tuesday that'd be a. No
brainer i'd Probably choose Peyton. OVER tom i think you

(56:29):
asshole to. THE waiter I just i have a hard
time seeing that with most of. These guys but it's
pretty big. TURN off i mean unless the Waiters like
i'll say, one thing and we went out to dinner
last Week in scottsdale and One and i've eaten out,
A lot i would say in my couple of years
living in. This area they. Charge you and this is

(56:52):
like most. BIGGER cities i guess the restaurant scene IS
So overu it's just it just cost an arm in
a lake or for the. MOST places, i mean there Are,
master ros some certain steakhouses that are just, pretty elite but,
MOST places i would say the food is very hit.
Or miss the service, HERE sucks i mean sucks for

(57:14):
what they're. Charging, you now is that a product of
not enough? People working is it just a product of
people not being good at? THEIR job i. DON'T know
i don't work in the. Service industry but are you
allowed to be rude if it is really? Really, poor
now if someone's, just overwhelmed it's not, their fault, totally
understand but it would depend on. The context if you're

(57:36):
just being a dick to be, a dick, Then yeah
i'd be out. On you what do you think about
this year's wide? RECEIVER class i know it doesn't have
the top end Talent Like marvin HARRISON, and JSN but
i do think it's got a lot of guys that
are immediately plug and. PLAY starters i do believe that
this class has quite a bit of depth. From programs,

(57:58):
For example I'm a Missouri Fan. Luth burton i've seen
him play in person for, multiple YEARS and i think
there's a chance he's a. REAL star i don't understand
why he's falling in. THE moncks i do think there
are some. Question marks i'll just leave it. AT that
i think there are just. Question marks and sometimes when
you see a, guy fall you know, the people especially
people that are, dialed in, YOU, Know Dj, Matt miller,

(58:23):
todd McShay guys that like do this for, a living
like mock, the draft. Mock drafts they're talking to a
lot of people in, the league and when they just
start telling you things that, you know it's NOT really
dj style to come out and just say what's really
going on about. A Player and i'm not using this
as an Example, for luthor but like that's usually why.

(58:44):
Guys fall and then there's sometimes as simple as, like
eah we don't think he's fast, or Whatever because i'm.
WITH you i watched him play a lot the last couple.
Of years you guys. Were good he. WAS good i think,
LAST year, I Mean malik nighbors pretty, elite prospect pretty.
Damn Good marvin harrison is like underwhelming and he's pretty
good based on, one season not all. His fault but

(59:07):
if you could redo, THE draft i mean You're Taking
elie Neighbors Over. Marvin harrison we've just had pretty good
wide receiver drafts over the last, SEVERAL years, i mean
really good wide. Receiver DRAFTS so i think there are
a lot of question marks with, this, Crew Right travis
hunter is like this, hybrid player so, it's like is
he even a? WIDE receiver i, don't. KNOW McMillan i
think there are some question marks with just, overall speed,

(59:31):
you know guys. LIKE him i think there hasn't been
a wide receiver drafted in the top ten or twelve
that ran as slow as Him Since. Mike Evans Now
mike Evans a Hall. Of famer but like it shows
you there's a little bit of. An outlier and sometimes
when you run in the four fives or four six
is even if you dominate in college you get. Discriminated,

(59:53):
Against now i've seen a lot Of Guys, Keenan Allen,
davante Adams, not blazers, elite players, you know in the
prime of. Their CAREER so i think you got to
be careful. About that but those guys went in the.
Second ROUND and i, THINK historically, i mean just look at,
recent memory some of the best, wide receivers some of
the highest paid wide receivers have not been first. Round,

(01:00:14):
picks now some of them, have Been Right, Jamar Chase,
Justin Jefferson. Ceedee lamb but there's also that crew OF Like,
AJ Brown. Dk Metcalf so terry McLaurin was not a first.
Round Pick diard, ravens fan what moves do you see

(01:00:44):
us making? This offseason not exactly sure on our. Cap
space off the top of, my head you usually don't.
Have much me personally would love to send maybe, a
first maybe two First, to cleveland but they Never, Give
no you're not getting Miles get like the thing is
in basketball, AND baseball i can trade a guy whenever

(01:01:05):
because their contract is kind of pay by as you
go IN the nfl with, signing bonuses LIKE once i
give a guy a huge contract, it's very very difficult
to trade the guy and even be willing to. Trade
HIM so i think With, the, ravens honestly you guys
have been good enough the last couple of years to
Win A. Super bowl it really hasn't been a. Roster thing,

(01:01:27):
You Know derek henry's a little. OLDER now, i mean
you sign him, last year. HE'S old i wouldn't be
shocked at all if you draft a, running BACK and
i would say the first three rounds you can never
have enough, offensive lineman, you know. DEFENSIVE line, I mean
i just think you guys are kind of. Meeting potatoes
but last year He, drafted wiggins the Corner. From clemson's
he looks like he's. Pretty good humphrey's getting, up there

(01:01:49):
a little bit, in age a lot of wear and
tear on, those tires but he's still a really. GOOD player,
i mean once they bumped him into. The slot, Last,
year hamilton You. GOT roquon, i mean you got a.
GOOD team i don't take the. Best players what do.
You need it's more. SWEET players, i mean lamar not
to turn the ball over in. The playoffs i've Been
a steeler fan my entire life and watched the Peak Of,

(01:02:10):
ben roethlisberger and even in the years, of decline they
never had a. Contingency plan why do You think tomlin
And the steelers front office are so tone death with the.
QUARTERBACK position i actually really don't think. THEY are i
just think you find YOURSELF and i use this analogy
With the chiefs. And tackles when you, draft late what
are you supposed? To? DO listen i didn't Like The candy,

(01:02:30):
pickett pick but they. Did try they took a guy
with the twentieth. Overall pick, it backfired and he's not
even on. The, team hell he's On his however many teams,
he's Been, the Steelers, the eagles and now he's on
his third team. And whatever. Three years but four years,
they TRIED so i can't say they. Never tried they.
Did that They Drafted, bason rudolph, well around he gets

(01:02:53):
drafted the third. Last year they brought in those. Two
guys now granted they they were, both cheap but still that.
They tried neither of. Them worked, right now they're Sniffing Around.
AARON rodgers i DON'T really i would imagine they draft
another guy. THIS year i give him more effort credit than.

Speaker 2 (01:03:12):
YOU do.

Speaker 1 (01:03:14):
I was listening to a recent episode debating the top
corners in. The league Why doesn't Christian goan zalis get
thrown into? The mix he missed a chunk of his,
rookie season but almost immediately was a. Lockdown corner improved
that again in a. Second year interested to hear. YOUR
thoughts i think you guys have been. Really shitty so

(01:03:34):
when you've been, that bad what you have the fourth pick?
This year you had the third pick. LAST year i
mean your games have been unwatchable now for, Two years
belichick's Year And dried. Mayo's year like as, A consumer i,
LOVE football i do it for. A living after a couple,
OF weeks i don't need to watch you. Play football
and the only Times like i'm watching you, if, like

(01:03:56):
okay You're Playing josh allen And. The bills, it's like
what's the point of?

Speaker 2 (01:04:01):
This?

Speaker 1 (01:04:01):
Game Right Or aaron, rodgers GAME which i think you guys,
did win which. Was cool the one did you guys
Beat the jets?

Speaker 2 (01:04:08):
Last?

Speaker 1 (01:04:08):
Year yeah you did right on a walk OFF touchdown,
i think or basically a walk off touchdown drove. The
field watched, that game but we're not consuming. You right
so like Last year stingley became. A star why the team?
Was good they've been a playoff team two years in.
A row patrick's certain how did he kind of take a?
Huge jump was team last year was the. Playoff TEAM

(01:04:29):
so i think a huge part of becoming a quote
unquote sexy name or whatever or talked about player IN,
the nfl it's really hard unless you're a rookie in
like set, some records you're drafting the top five back to.
Back years we're just we're not going to be as dialed.
Into you it's much easier To Watch steph Curry and

(01:04:50):
lebron than it is to watch Like the hawks anyone
you like offense. Or defensive rookie of, The year fantasy
picks for rookies by, the way got any promos for
DraftKings and? Game time? Of Course John Jaway. CHEN baby
i think to make, those predictions you kind of got

(01:05:11):
to see where. GUYS go, i mean one thing we've
learned the last couple of years who you are playing
with as a either running Back, or LIKE if i
tell You the chargers draft a running back in the,
FIRST round i WOULD say i would probably like that
guy to have a chance to be the offensive rookie of.
The year right if if you Tell me Denver the

(01:05:31):
chargers draft a running back, Really high i'm kind of gonna. Like, It, right,
SO yeah i think the fit for all now defensive
rookie of. The year, you KNOW if i Have dual
carter goes To, THE giants i means he's GONNA be i,
don't know trying. To, THINK yeah i think you just

(01:05:53):
gotta see where guys. END up a big Fan from
canada always Feel Like. Drew brees this is one of
the most underrated and underappreciated athletes. In sports after being
on the wrong side of some of the most iconic
playoff games such As The, minneapolis Miracle The, no Call The,
beast Quake The vernon Davis The. Grab game do you

(01:06:13):
think if a handful of these games ended differently and
we would have a much different opinion. Of them it
always said that It was brady In the, manning ERA
but i feel like It undervalues breeze just Because the saints'
Defense Made sam bradford look like the next. Great quarterback
it's a pretty, GOOD question i. WOULD say, i mean

(01:06:34):
if a couple, GOES away i mean the one what
if he Wins The? Super, bowl right the one the,
past Interference The, Jared goffire what if they went and
they Beat. The patriots it's not Like the patriots were
world beaters. That year they Beat, the rams what thirteen,
To three so it's fair to say they were beatable in.
THAT game i, would. SAY yeah, i mean part of
it is Like If DREW if i Told You drew

(01:06:55):
brees Won Two super bowls and went, TO another i
think we would look at him a little differently. For
sure that's part of the way, Sports works like it's
easy to make Fun Of james Harden If james harden
was a two time champion and it's IN an, NBA
finals mvp know On what i'm, saying that which non
player do you think contributed the Most to washington's success?

(01:07:17):
LAST season i think you'd have to say the. HEAD coach,
I Mean adam Peters Picked. Jayden DANIELS but i think
it's fair to say that everyone was on, board THERE
and I think adam's. A stud but, their TEAM and
i Would imagine adam would, say this like, last year
their roster on paper was NOT a nfc, championship roster

(01:07:38):
So dan quinn getting those guys to believe the, toughness
factor just a well rounded. Like operation it's felt like
For decades washington was just kind of clueless and PART
of i mean a huge reason their owner was, always acting,
You Know. Bruce allen they always had too many cooks in.
The kitchen and it just feels like they're just a.

(01:08:00):
Normal organization they got A, good gm they got a
coach and knows what. He's DOING So i i'd probably Lean. Dan,
quinn uh you said you're currently a five handicaps. Five
handicap describe the strengths in your weaknesses of your, golf
game things you need to. Work, on also where do

(01:08:20):
you Play in arizona in? The Summer assuming arizona is,
too hot it's the best time. TO play, i mean
if it's one hundred, and fifteen it's difficult. To play
but if it's one, oh eight. One ten got the course.
TO yourself i can play a teen holes in. Two
hours the strength of my, Golf game i'm a. Ball
striker weakness anything around the, green putting worset Putter. In

(01:08:40):
america there is not a worst Putter in america than.
Your boy it doesn't get. Any worse i've, changed putters it.
Doesn't matter i'm just not a. Good PUTTER so i
can play like a shoot up, seventy FOUR and i
can putt like, one hundred and THAT'S why i end
up shooting in the, low eighties. PUTTING terrible i would

(01:09:01):
play golf in the heat any day over. The cold
Should the vikings take a page Of the eagles book
And extend addison Early use the fifth year thought process
is based on McCarthy being the guy and capitalizing on his. Rookie,
deal yeah not a bad idea. AT all, i mean
he's probably gonna get suspended right for that dy situation from,

(01:09:23):
Last year but he's, a PLAYER so i never against extending. Good,
players now he's not gonna, be cheap so YOU have
I guess jamar is now technically the highest, paid player
but one of the highest paid non quarterbacks in the
league at. That position so are you going to Also?

(01:09:44):
Pay addison it's like You're getting addison for fifty. MILLION dollars,
i mean it's probably gonna cost you eighty ninety million.
Dollars guaranteed you're basically just taking the approach Of. THE
bengals i GUESS which i can't. FAULT you, i mean
you drafted these, two guys, SO yeah I mean i never.
Against it now you'd. HAVE to i have to see

(01:10:04):
the number you. Could argue just let it play out
because you Drafted At jordan madison what pick forget off
the top of. My head, twenty one, twenty four twenty
five somewhere, in there so he's. RELATIVELY cheap i just
played out. Another year i'm so Sick of, Packer, fans
uh just. Being good i'm A lifelong, packer Fan and

(01:10:26):
i'm so sick of just. Being good my eyes don't really.
Work anymore it's fine every year with being in quote unquote,
the hunt, but damn why won't the front office ever
go get a big. Time playmaker we've Won Two super
bowls in, my life and every year it's the. Same
thing we're building for. The, future well last year they
need a veteran voice in the wide, receiver ROOM and
i think it showed at the end of. The year

(01:10:47):
what's your opinion on Why the packers don't do shit? Every,
year uh that's a. Good question. You know coward's always had,
the THEORY and I think he's probably on. To something
thing is not having an owner is like a blessing and.
A curse not having an owner is incredible because for,
whatever reason you have just had very very Capable From

(01:11:11):
ron wolf who's Obviously a Hall, of Famer To ted
thompson to Now To, Gouda, kins like these guys, are,
good right but there's not someone hanging over them with
billions of dollars in a, bank account huge ego and
just like going to country clubs where his friends are asking,
him like what's the deal with you with?

Speaker 2 (01:11:29):
Your?

Speaker 1 (01:11:29):
Team right what's? Going on seeing them at. Yacht parties
so there's not as much urgency and pressure as when
you're just working for one of these super, rich guys
especially the older super, rich guys so like they can
just kind of slow and stead he wins the race
and they feel the least likely to ever just here's

(01:11:50):
two first round Picks For. Miles, Garrett right BUT if
i Told You andy reid had Traded For, miles garrett you'd, be,
like yeah. Totally Shit Or howie roseman Traded For, Max
crosby like TOTALLY if i told You the packers had
Traded For, max crosby you'd have to do a. Double take,
you're like. No, way now obviously those players. Aren't available

(01:12:12):
but EVEN like dk metcalf like And again, i'm not
they to me make more sense Than. The steelers but
they would never. Do that that's just not what. They
do and you, could argue like, why not why not
take some, big swings and they. Just DON'T and i
do think that's because there's not someone truly looking over.

(01:12:33):
THEIR shoulder I Know mike, murphy's retiring but it's just not.
The same it's not. His money the franchise is, money
Shareholders which i'm still always a little confused how. That
works but clearly there's not a guy that owns the.
TEAM outright i can't wait for gent to be a
star and for you to shut the. Fuck up. It's

(01:12:59):
FUNNY all i do is. Just wonder the draft is an.
Economic exercise So Like saquon barkley went number, Two Overall
saquon barkley Is a Hall of, fame talent no one
would argue that was it the right pick For. The.
Giants no christian McCaffrey went eighth overall To The. Carolina

(01:13:21):
panthers was that the right pick for THEM like I Love.
ASHTON genty I was. I fall i stayed up Late
on saturday to watch him countless times play in kind
Of Meaningless mountain. West games he is a fantastic and,
elite player but, saying, LIKE yeah i would draft a

(01:13:43):
lineman at six and then take a running back in
the second or third round is not a shot. At
him it's just basic. Football economics and, one thing THIS
clip i Did with coward the, OTHER day i don't
want to say, went viral but it just got put
on a reel and one hundred thousand. People watching people
are commented, on it and people, are like this guy's?

(01:14:06):
An idiot What About. Jamir gibbs he's because one thing
is like a five eight running back and People Like
barry sanders, is short so we're comparing With To. Barry
sanders like that's so, it's, like okay if He Becomes,
barry sanders what's the likelihood. Of that it's Like cam
ward if He Becomes, Patrick, mahomes, like, well yeah, no
shit you know that's not how. This works, Guess what

(01:14:28):
i've been alive for. Forty years you know How Many
Barry sanders i've? Seen one So Like, jamiir gibbs he's. Five, nine,
WELL yeah i Would Take ashon Genty And tyler warren
because that's What the lions Got With. Jamiir gibbs they
traded from six to twelve and they got picked, thirty
seven and they got a tight end Who's Name sam
laporta to Go With, jamiir gibbs who again ran a

(01:14:50):
four to. Three, five Now Maybe ashon genty is a
four to three. Five guy if you told me that
he had ran his forty and ran a four to,
THREE five i would be more bullish on the draft
pick at twelve if you told me it like picked.
Twelve thirteen i'm not. AGAINST it i just think when
we're talking about like, pick, five, six seven seems a
little extreme to me in a class loaded with running

(01:15:12):
backs that you can get like a starter in the
second or third round and take my starting left tackle
or defensive lineman in the. First round That's all i've been,
Talking about not that like this. Guy sucks i've never
said that. One time he's a really, good player. Awesome
player but we've seen three guys get drafted in recent

(01:15:33):
memory in the, top eight and it's been a bumpy
ride for the teams that drafted, that guy even though
we know they're. All sweet saquon With, The Giants bjon
robinson is an. Elite talent, it's, like yeah it's like
not working. Out perfectly McCaffrey's On. The niners i've noticed
that over the last year, or so podcasters and other

(01:15:57):
sports analysts are wanted to talk more politics or about their.
Spiritual beliefs why do you think. THAT is i understand
that it's their show and they can talk about whatever.
THEY want, i, Know personally i'm more likely to tune
in less frequently if. They do this is not specifically

(01:16:18):
About steven a thinking about running. For president what is
your Take steven a running? FOR president i do think
it's a pretty genius business move, for him just saying
this constantly driving more people to. His show i'm sure
they just paid him one hundred million dollars so people
can make fun of them all you want. AND listen
i don't watch, first take but. HIS business, i mean

(01:16:41):
he just got paid one hundred million Dollars by disney
to basically Talk About. Lebron james that's what that show.
IS too i noticed This whenever I'm at the ONLY
time i ever see It is i'm at the gym
and one of the main TVs HAS just. Espn on
so if you go in, the morning first takes, just
on everything Is About. LEBRON james I mean. I do
i'm Not A lebron, james GUY and i fucking Hate.

(01:17:03):
THE lakers i do understand him just being like these
people will talk about. Me NonStop ovechkin breaks the record
and there was a topic Like what ovechkin's record breaking
goal Means For lebron james's legacy or it was like this.
Is INSANE but I think i think people in quote

(01:17:26):
unquote sports media spend a lot of Time, On twitter
like relative to the average person that just Has a,
TWITTER account i would say that the majority, of PEOPLE
and i would say political media. As well people that
quote unquote in the media spend a large portion Of
their internet Going. On twitter and if you Live, on

(01:17:49):
twitter it can make you feel that like this is
all everyone's talking. About, NonStop wait sometimes like you're Watching
A super bowl or a play off game or whatever
the masters it's like clear a lot of people are
probably paying attention to this have opinions. On IT but
i think on a. Daily basis if you live in,
that world it can kind. Of convolude you're thinking of

(01:18:12):
how aggressively people want to talk, about SOMETHING and i
think their percentage of the pie chart relative to just
some dude that like sells insurance or the electrician that
just came over to my house to fix some screwed
up things in, my wiring AND just i, don't know

(01:18:33):
normal everyday people that aren't in, the media that have,
just jobs don't spend that much time and aren't inundated with.
These thoughts so when you hear these, people that let's,
face it all like the majority of sports media all
lean heavily to. One side so they see their peer
group all agreeing with what, they're SAYING that i think

(01:18:54):
they HAVE a I just i'm. WITH you i don't
think most people like are in. THE mood i think
one thing that people, screw UP and I think twitter
has made most of. These people it's hurt their ability,
TO just i, don't know look at something through the
lens of not. TRYING to i think groupthink definitely creeps
in when you spend a lot of time on that

(01:19:17):
app because you're afraid to go outside of, the, box
which let's, face it most successful people kind of push
the envelope in, any industry and that used to be
a huge part. Of media the most successful people in
the space and still to this day get Crushed, on,
Twitter RIGHT and, i, THINK honestly i think that has,

(01:19:37):
a huge huge problem. FOR people i guess quote unquote
podcasters in terms of talking About POLITICS. STEVEN a, i
mean there's a lot of money, in politics so if
you just want to talk, ABOUT it i guess if
you're using him as an example from a, Spiritual standpoint
i'm not QUITE sure i follow on. THAT one i.

(01:20:00):
DON'T listen i listened to a decent amount of sports
stuff and don't hear it. That often but maybe we're
just listening to. Different STUFF but I think i think
people just being. TOO online, I mean i really believe that, it's,
like guys you guys got to get to fucking get
to the real world every once in, a WHILE and
i think. It can it definitely started the downfall of

(01:20:22):
like of radio sports talk radio is like ten, years
ago a lot of people just thought things that were
Big on twitter or what people wanted to hear driving
around their car and just not, a fact now some things.
Are Right If adam SCHEFTER tweets i Don't Know derek
carr has been traded To The, pittsburgh steelers, WELL yeah
i mean it's let's talk. About that but on an

(01:20:44):
everyday topic and responding the laziest thing, is, like well
this is what people are saying because you saw like. Three,
comments no don't get, ME wrong i like scrolling Comments
on instagram or whatever as much as the. Next guy
but to think that that is the subset or repris sense,
HUMAN beings i think you've got to be very careful,

(01:21:04):
doing THAT and i think a lot of people make,
that mistake and it's why there's only a small percentage
of people having success on a lot of, these platforms
and definitely would success making any money because people. Tune
off and, To me i'm, with you, it's like probably
just wanted to hear your take on Like the warriors game,
last night and you're like going on some whatever. ABOUT

(01:21:25):
whatever i, don't care and one like this is entertainment.
And listen obviously there are crossovers, of THIS but i
do think people lose sight of that of the, entertainment
factor like this is, a release like our lives. Are
stressful there's a lot going on no matter what, you're
doing whether it's, your children whether it's, your relationship whether

(01:21:47):
it's the bills you have. TO pay i mean the stress,
of like dude comes over to, MY house i need
To Do. Circuit breaker, i'm like it's? How much and
they're just it's just. Like geez so the LAST thing
i want to Do if i'm about to take my
dog on a walk is listen some guy Ranting and
raven pissed OFF when i don't even believe that he's.
Pissed off, IT'S like i just think you're doing this
like performative ART that i think you have a false

(01:22:09):
sense of how many people even enjoy. This shit but other,
Than That, Ashton genty i'm. A hater the volume

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3 & Out - WF Head Coach Jake Dickert stops by, Why hate Nico, Rating the upcoming WR class

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