First, Doug is joined by T3 Body CEO J.C. White discusses his athletic background, how he transitioned from hooping to bodybuilding while attending Michigan State, turning pro as a bodybuilder at 22, transitioning to powerlifting, why he ultimately chose bodybuilding over powerlifting, how the science of fitness has evolved, and how his company differentiates itself from the competition.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, want to welcome in. I'm Doug Gottlie.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
This is All Ball.
Speaker 3 (00:08):
We're gonna take a bit of a left turn from
some of our basketball storytelling. And don't worry if you're
a Dan Putaman fan. I've had so many texts and
tweets and d ms from people we want to see
here Part two. We'll drop part two with Dan this
upcoming week. But let's let's get to part one with
a good friend of mine.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
His name is j C.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
White.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
He runs T three Body and he's but he's more
than a trainer. It's a holistic approach. But what's interesting is,
you know, in in our search for our zest for
like sports and and and the kind of connection of
all sports and the connection of kind of the mind,
(00:50):
the body, everything that goes into it, there's also the hey,
I'd love for if you listen to all ball, find
different ways to have different avenues to make money. And
jac was a guy who was hooper in high school,
wasn't good enough to play in college, became all about
kind of bodybuilding and weightlifting, and then it's turned it
into being as successful professionally as anybody in the country.
(01:11):
So we'll get to that upcoming some quick thoughts on
some of the ANIL stuff. You know, it's it's fascinating
to see coaches leave and the assumption is when they
step up a level, that they bring their best players
with them. And what's happened is, and this is with
Dusty May a little bit with Josh Shirts. You look
(01:32):
around the country and some of these coaches that have
switched ups, they've many of them have taken their best player,
but it's a little bit harder to get everybody with you.
And what happens is when you know you have changed places,
it allows those players to hit the open market, and
they're playing the market. And what's interesting about the nil
(01:53):
is space is the phases of it.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
You know, you had the right when the season was over.
A good portion.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
Of the players that immediately put themselves in the portal,
it was not really their choice. It may have been
their choice because they wanted more playing time, but it
was not really a lot of times their choice in
that the coach was probably thinking, you may want to
find yourself somewhere else to play. I can help you
out put yourself in the portal. Then there's the you know,
guys that have been we knew were going to be
(02:22):
in the portal for a long time, and they put
their names in and many of them are signing at places.
Then you have the list of what you'd call quasi
kind of elite players, many of whom are sitting there
with a COVID year that they could still use, and
oftentimes they're declaring for the NBA Draft as kind of
a pause.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
It doesn't put them in the portal.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
Because it's still you know, their current school is still
quasi on the hook, but it can put them in
the dark portal where, yeah, they can see what their
value would be if they were to go to the
NBA Draft, or they can see what their value would
be if they stay in college. And I think there's
a good list of those players that we still don't
(03:06):
know exactly what their future is and that's kind of
going to determine a lot of the elite stuff. But
the money being thrown around is crazy. And I thought
Dan's eye opening podcast it was just the start of
the story. We'll get more into it upcoming this week.
As for the NBA Playoffs, you know, I'm intrigued by
(03:29):
by the Timberwolves and what they did the Suns in
Game one, the Suns just you know, Grace to Allen
has to be a lot better, has to be a
lot more effective. If you're only going to get handful
of points off your bench, your starters have to be
playing an elite level. And Kevin Durant was plenty good
enough at least at the offensive end, but they got
to figure out how to get other weapons involved. They
(03:51):
can't simply attack Rudy Gobert on the perimeter. There has
to be other ways in which they can generate offense
otherwise could be a short playoff runt of the Suns.
And you know with Ibshez there as your owner man,
that he's the kind of guy that may get rid
of half the team, even though they still really haven't
played much together in terms of a Big three. Obviously,
(04:14):
most people are trying to figure out what do we
do with a thunder? When they get to the playoffs,
it feels like they dodged a bit of a bullet
with Zion being hurt. Don't get me wrong, the Pells
are still talented, but Zion's a completely different dynamic and
we're kind of robbed right now.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
Zion, assuming that hamstring.
Speaker 3 (04:31):
Keeps him out of seeing what he looks like in
playoffs basketball and some other guys like we have with
the Thunder and then the Lakers and the Nuggets, and look,
you brought in a point guard who you thought could
challenge D'Angelo Russell.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
But like here we are again, and D'Angel.
Speaker 3 (04:50):
Russell's your starting point guard, and he's just not good
enough against the Nuggets. Whether it's his it's not just
his defense, because Jamal Murray didn't light him up. It's
there's not a lot of tough to there rebounding wise,
there's just not a lot of fifty fifty balls that
he gets his hands on. And then and on some
levels he feels so shook that it affects his offense
and he missed a big layup. Don't get me wrong,
(05:11):
He's not the only reason they lost in Game one.
Lebron James somehow avoiding any sort of negative vibes, he
had seven turnovers in the game. But for the Lakers,
if you know, I just don't understand the two things
I don't understand with the Lakers. I like the things
that Rob Polinka has done for the most part, and
you know, the I don't believe the Westbrook move was
(05:34):
his call. But getting what rid of Westbrook and reforming
the roster was they did a great job. And I
think he knew, you know, he knew that that Bianzel
Russell wasn't gonna be good enough.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
Why do you resign him? Like, did you resign him
because you know to trade him?
Speaker 3 (05:51):
I don't, I don't. I never loved that idea. And
your little snake bit right, like, you go and get
a point guard who starts from my last year and
they go to the finals and he essentially never plays
for you, so that you know, maybe you had to
know better. But there's also a part of it to
which it's just unlucky. But the two things I don't
(06:12):
understand what the Lakers is why they brought back to
Angel Russell and why they didn't draft Homy hawk As. ANDOK,
plenty of other teams didn't draft Hoemy hawk As. But
let's be honest. If you're the Lakers and he's in
your backyard, kids, just a stud, he checks every box
and he helps you off the floor with Hispanic demographic.
Not that that's why you would draft him, but he's
(06:32):
just a kind of a perfect fit and you're in
win now mode, you drafted a you draft a player
who's nineteen, He's not going to help you for a
couple of years as opposed to hot ass draft you. Now,
so those are the two that jump out to me,
and I think both of those are kind of coming
back to roost for him. All Right, more hoop talk upcoming.
Let's dig in. This is my friend JC White te
(06:53):
three body is this company? Here's his story before we
get to who you are? Now, what's your sports background?
Speaker 1 (07:03):
Jac?
Speaker 2 (07:04):
What were you like as an athlete in high school?
Speaker 4 (07:07):
Yeah? I played basketball pretty much my whole life. I
was All State, first team, All League. I was a deep,
decent hooper, but the muscle and the more of the
athleticism came a little bit after high school.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
Oh anyway, so like what high school?
Speaker 4 (07:25):
I want to andover in Bloomfield Hills, Michigan.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
Okay, where is that? That's that's outside that's suburban Detroit.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
Correct.
Speaker 4 (07:32):
Yeah, yeah, it's about thirty to thirty minutes outside of Detroit,
heading like towards Lansing.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
Okay, you were what year are you? All State?
Speaker 4 (07:43):
Two thousand and seven was the year that I was
All State?
Speaker 2 (07:46):
Okay? And point guard? Two guard? Like you're a big dude.
You're not a big dude. What was your what was
your position of choice?
Speaker 4 (07:55):
Yeah, so I played like one through four because I
was I could leap back in the day, Like my
vertical is like forty inches, so I could get up there.
So being about six foot six foot one, they have
you play anywhere from the one through the four, So
I was kind of like a flex and it was tough. Man.
Sometimes I had to guard some of the guys that
were like six six six seven and trying to you know.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
There's nothing fun about that.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
Nothing fun about My advice.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
On post defense is now, well, I don't know. That's
what they teach you when you play professionally. It's just
like you ain't kind of bad miss match just like
now you get five more.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
Yeah, yeah, that position.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
Again.
Speaker 4 (08:33):
I would just try to bait them into taking a
try to use their height so I could at least
leap to try to contest the shot. But if they
if they were smart and they just hit me with
like a hook or you know, just lowered their shoulder
a little bit and use their offan to shoot, there's
not much I could do about that.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
Yeah, didn't shoot in a body building like right after
high school.
Speaker 4 (08:52):
I got into it. In college. I started training like
pretty serious around like nineteen twenty years old, and I
turned pro at twenty two, which maybe the second youngest
person to do.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
So Okay, so let's go back. Where'd you go to college?
Speaker 4 (09:05):
Michigan State?
Speaker 3 (09:06):
Okay, so go to Michigan State. This in the peak
of the early Iszo era, Right, yep, how did you be?
How'd you find a love for bodybuilding? Weightlifting? Like?
Speaker 2 (09:16):
Where did that come from?
Speaker 4 (09:18):
Yeah? So after I got done playing basketball. You know,
I think as athletes, we always have this need to express,
you know, some type of physical demand of the body.
We're used to pushing ourselves, We're used to challenging ourselves.
And I no longer had that because I didn't play
basketball at the next level. And so I kind of
just stumbled into the gym one day and I used
to hate it. I used to think it sucked. I
(09:40):
used to be really weak, not not that strong, and
I just kind of like just did a circuit around
the gym and for whatever is like.
Speaker 3 (09:49):
The students like the student center Michigan State, or is
this back home in Bloomfield? Where is it When you
first started out of your weightlifting journey.
Speaker 4 (09:57):
Yeah, so this this was actually my freshman year, which
I did my did my first year at Western Michigan
before I transferred to Michgon State. So I calm yeah,
Calama zoo, Yep, yep, this is back. This was two
thousand and so this one they had a great Jennings.
I'm not sure he played for the Green Bay package
for a little bit around that time with the football
team was decent, but anyway, so yeah, I kind of
(10:20):
stumbled my way in there, uh and just did like
I just worked out for like three hours and didn't
really have a planner direction of that time, but it
seemed to help me feel better because I was kind
of sad about not playing ball anymore. And then it
just kind of spiraled into what it is today.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
Oh coo, let's let's let's get to that spiral. Okay.
Speaker 3 (10:42):
So you start start working out, okay, and all of
a sudden your body starts changing, right you're like nineteen,
Like everybody starts to get those band muscles.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
How did you.
Speaker 3 (10:51):
Take it from there to getting into becoming a pro
body build? Like?
Speaker 1 (10:56):
What's what was the progression?
Speaker 2 (10:57):
Like?
Speaker 4 (10:58):
Yeah, so I remember I was, you know, I gained
that freshman fifteen originally, right, So like, you know, you
go it off the school, you're the first time away
from home, You're you're eating like you know, can we
curse at all? Or is this we got to keep
it really restricted?
Speaker 2 (11:14):
Dude?
Speaker 4 (11:16):
So I was eating like shit, drinking, drinking pretty much Thursday,
thirsty Thursdays, all the way till you know, Sunday. You
know that that fifteen kind of popped on me quick.
So first it was just Okay, I just want to
look like how I did in high school. You know,
I always pretty much had abs or a sixpack, you know,
being an athlete my entire life, And it was just
getting back to that basis. Well, then, because I actually
(11:39):
started to enjoy the process, I started learning more about
nutrition and started learning more about supplementation and how much
actually goes into that whole entire process of getting on
stage and competing and getting more muscular, getting stronger. It
actually really started to fascinate me, and so I started
the question like, Okay, what's the next progressive step to this?
(12:00):
If I actually wanted to compete in some aspect, whether
it be Olympic lifting, powerlifting, or bodybuilding competitions and that's
where I started to explore. Like you know, fitness modeling
was like the first thing I got into, So I
was like, okay, cool. It was a show out in
Las Vegas. It was a search for a muscle and
fitness male model kind of like covers, like they were
(12:23):
really going to do like thousands of guys. And that
was the first thing that I ever stepped into. Didn't
do so well, but it introduced me to the whole industry.
Speaker 3 (12:33):
Was there was there a like a friend, like, I mean,
how do you discover all this stuff on your own
in Michigan? Like how do you you know? Was there
somebody's like, here's my guy and he told me all
this stuff. How do you go from Hey, I'm just
kind of interested in it. Started working my body too.
Now I'm going out to the show in Vegas.
Speaker 4 (12:55):
Yeah, that's that's the that's the funny part. Man, And
I wish I had a coach back then. But this
was the early days of YouTube, like when YouTube was
first getting on the scene, like the late you know,
two thousands to twenty ten around that time period. So uh,
I'm not sure if for remember, but like like Ronnie Coleman,
Jay Cutler. They were putting out like these video like
(13:16):
vlogs and then prepping for competitions like the Mister Olympia competitions.
And I essentially when I first got into it was
just mimicking everything that I saw them do. This is
kind of like what I did in basketball to as well,
Like cause I you know, I didn't really have a
whole lot of one on one instructions, but when I
if I saw somebody execute something or they'd be like,
you know, how are they coming off the pick and
roll or like their footwork or something like that, I
(13:37):
would immediately go and try it and do it and
try to do it for myself. So bodybuilding was kind
of like the same thing, where it was seeing them
how they prepped their food the daily and like the lifestyle,
how they were training, and just kind of just just
following that. Was it the most optimal or best approach, No,
(13:58):
but it was a good kind of like framework for
me to start with. Because the most important thing in
being successful with any endeavor, but definitely with this is
just the consistency of the effort. So that's what really
paid off more than anything, was just being consistent. And yeah,
that's like kind of how I prepped for my first show.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
Okay, what about supplementation.
Speaker 3 (14:23):
What was that like back that in terms of what
you're not just food but like what you're actually taking
your body.
Speaker 4 (14:29):
Yeah, so back then it was all pseudoscience, like I
was taking. Like I don't want to beat up on
any other companies back then, but it was just all
like like the pseudoscience is bro science, you know, like
it was stuff that wasn't going to actually truly have
any impactful change on your body for the price point
of which you were purchasing at. So it was just
like overhyped, over marketed products add fifteen pounds of muscle
(14:52):
in thirty days and stuff like that, Like it was say,
but it you know, realistically, it was just you know,
really heavily inflated creating products or stuff that really didn't
do any that good. So, like, it wasn't anything crazy
back then. And at the time, I didn't want to
flirt around with any of the performance enhancing drugs. Not
only I did not have access to it because I
(15:13):
was a college kidch in Michigan, like that stuff's not
easy to come by. Two, I was inherently I knew
I was really young still and my body hadn't fully
developed yet, so I wanted to give it enough time
to see where I can get without having to use
any like help, like, because I didn't.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
Want to stay some legit though I get it first
shot there.
Speaker 4 (15:39):
Yeah, I didn't know that people, So this is kind
of like fast forward into the future. So I did
a few more shows and finally I did I put
it all together. I got way more scientific with the process,
actually had some help, got a coach and everything like that,
and I did not turn pro with twenty two. I
didn't actually find out that everybody was using though until
(15:59):
my first pro show. That was like the rudest awakening.
I was not only the youngest guy on stage. The
guy who actually won that pro show was about fifteen
years older than me. But they all were using not
just one or two steroids, but like eight or nine
was a part of their protocols and prepping for shows.
And I was only twenty three, I believe twenty three
(16:19):
or twenty yeah, twenty three when I did my first
pro show. So the guy who won it was like
thirty seven or thirty eight or something like that. So
like that was when I had like my rude awakening,
and I was like, not only am I these guys
have decades of me of training, but they're also using
a fuck ton of drugs. So if I was gonna
have to compete at that level with those guys, either
one or two things is not gonna give it more time,
(16:40):
let my body develop because like you know, genetically, I
could keep up with a lot of people. So like,
if I just gave myself more time, I would be
able to compete at a high level. Or two I
was gonna have to hop one. Number two was kind
of out of the option, still way too young. So
it was just training more, trains, smarter, and give it
more time.
Speaker 5 (16:59):
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Speaker 3 (17:12):
Okay, so so then take me through the progression. So
you make this decision, I can't get on that train.
I'm not ready for that.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
Then on.
Speaker 4 (17:21):
Yeah, So at that point, it was how can I
compete at a high level but not compromise, for one
my integrity, Like what I'm what I'm not willing to
do yet and still have fun with the process. So
then that's when I transition and got into powerlifting. Powerlifting
the you know, oddly enough, the highest level of bodybuilding
(17:46):
you have to use. It's all steroids. Like the drug
testing competitions nobody gives a fuck about like and for
the most part, the feat physiques aren't that impressive because
usually the guys who are really you know, genetically blessed
all end up gear at some point, so they all
end up, you know, competing with everybody else who is
using it. But powerlifting, the highest, most best sanctioned, you know,
(18:09):
competitions are actually all drug tested, and then when you
compete at a high level there, they actually random drug
test throughout the year. So actually I was drug tested
I think like two or three times, well, all powerlifting.
So that's when I was a transition to this. I
was say, okay, let me put bodybuilding on the back
burner for right now. I'll circle back to this maybe
at a later date. Let me go ahead and compete
in powerlifting for one too. It's objective. It reminds me
(18:30):
of playing a sport, so like, you know, bodybuilding is subjective. Yeah,
they have like a grading criteria and kind of like
a score. But at the end of the day, you know,
the beauty is in the eye to beholder, so to speak.
So like the judges are often be going to decide
what they're looking for. They might want more size on
that day, but they might want more shape, they might
more win symmetry. So that's kind of like the challenging
part about bodybuilding. But powerlo thing is like did you
just lift more than the man next to you? Fucking
(18:53):
love that it's unarguable, and plus is just really fucking strong,
Like it's really fucking fun to be strong. I think
as a man, we all, you know, admired really strong
masculine men. We were growing up at least you know,
my generation and before. I don't know about the kids today, but.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
I think it's still I think it's still today.
Speaker 3 (19:14):
I think I actually think that, uh I, And probably
it might even matter more now, you know, because they
have like you go to college campuses.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
I do think, like you go to.
Speaker 3 (19:26):
To the workout gyms or whatever, and kids are more
into their body. Like I remember when I so I
played in college obviously before when you were probably like
in middle school.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
I finished up in two thousand, but.
Speaker 3 (19:41):
You know, when I was when I was coming up,
I had my trainer was a guy Mark Rinovich, Marv's son.
Marv was the former strength coach of the Rams, played
in the NFL himself, and you know, Todd of course,
his son was a first round traffick, and he was
seen by people who didn't know him as you know,
(20:03):
kind of like it seems like some sort of lunatic
any of us who worked with him, like he was
a genius. But we were way ahead with diet and
you know, he was big on the zone diet forty
thirty thirty and and and send some supplementation, but it
was a lot more from like a a chemistry sort
(20:25):
of background, right like that that was that was how
he went about it. But the point is when I
was in college, like I was literally the only guy
on my team to really really worry about what I
was eating. And then you know, even at even at
my school, there wasn't anybody who would go in there.
(20:46):
You felt like it was really worried about kind of
what they were eating, how they were lifting, all the
things that athletes did. Whereas now I think, you go
and I think that's changed again. It's still more niche,
but you know, like frat boys are a lot more
into looking good and being cut and getting big than
they used to be just about kind of like drinking
(21:08):
beer or whatever. I think there's it's I think fitness
is a lot more part of you know, my own
daughter is going to college next year, and you know, again,
she's not a bodybuilder, but she's taken spin class, and like,
who did that? None of the girls did that when
I was in high school, you know, So I think
that part is interesting. But okay, so when you're doing
(21:30):
you're doing powerlifting. Hey, here's the first question I think
most people want to know, but they fail to ask.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
Or are afraid to ask.
Speaker 3 (21:40):
Our bodybuilder is actually strong? Or is there just an
art to making your body look strong?
Speaker 4 (21:46):
Our bodybuilders strong? Fuck? No, fuck no. That's one of
the things that I've hated about it is like these
guys would be monsters, right, absolutely huge muscles bursting through
the shirt. But when you get them in the gym,
you can out like a really good athlete who's trained
correctly can kick their ass in the gym. Like it's
(22:06):
strictly just for cosmetics. So the one thing that I
always wanted to be was kind of like a dual athlete,
where not I only not only looked the part, but
I could move very well. I was also very strong.
My body was also very mobile.
Speaker 3 (22:20):
You want to be you want to be like so
like stiff, like big huge neck bodybuilder.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
Can't move so bro so yeah, you know the guy.
We all know the guy.
Speaker 4 (22:31):
Yeah, like and that's that's not that's not. That was
never appealing to me, Like I was always a bigger
fan of the bodybuilding in the in the classic era,
like Arnold Schwarzerenegger, Insurgent of Bray, like those physiques to
me always looked very uh, very balanced, very proportionate, but
also very athletic. To at the same time, like they
looked like they could still go out and run like
a forty yard dash. They was like, you know, if
you've got a scrap with them, and that would not
(22:51):
be a good time. The bodybuilders today, I mean, they're
they're so big and a mobile, like it's it's just, uh,
it's impressive the size that they put on, but it's
not it's not something that I think a lot of
people would would want to look like. But to you,
to your point, you said something earlier about you know,
the kids today and like them, you know, be going
(23:13):
into the gym. I think that actually might be that
people are just more health conscious today. I think that's
more of the trend. But the the reason why, like
I got into it, like I just admire like masculinity
and being strong and being powerful like that. That to
me was like the appeal, whereas I think today I don't.
I think people may do it for more of a
(23:34):
visual reason, like they want to look cool, they want
to look sick. The people are definitely way more health
conscious today, even though America as a whole is fatter
than it's ever been. But for me, it was like
growing up my like my heroes were always it was
Arnold Schwarzenegger, pro wrestlers, like superheroes like that. That to
me was like the appeal. So that's why it was
(23:55):
like it was cool to be strong and lift like
these enormous weights because it was being like Mile. So
it was like the guys that I wanted to be.
Speaker 3 (24:02):
Like stuff is so I think back, it's funny, that's
why I lifted.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
I didn't live for the cosmetic. I like the way
it looked.
Speaker 3 (24:15):
I really liked the idea of feeling strong because I
was such a late lumer, was always so skinny, you know,
and so little. And I love the idea of delivering,
like delivering punishment when I played basketball, and you know,
probably ruined my jumpsh out a little bit because you
can lift and be strong and still shoot, but you
have to be really vigilant about it.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
And a lot of my shooting stuff was mental. But
what I love just the.
Speaker 3 (24:43):
Feeling of being, you know, of contact not bothering you,
and the feeling of you know, we could hand check
back then, and like you put your hand on somebody
and if you're really strong, you can make it feel
like a fucking vice script on somebody's hip. And you
know what no one really says about hand checking. It's
like I can steer you, I can control you, whereas
(25:05):
if I can't touch you, I can't cantry, I can't
steer you. And it was it was a very valuable
part of how I played. And so I'm with you.
I get that, the masculinity and the feeling of raw strength.
So you okay, so you transition to powerlifting. How long
did it take to when you were really at the
(25:26):
top and compete?
Speaker 4 (25:30):
Not too long, I mean within I think like six months,
I was one of the top ranked guys in the
country in powerlating.
Speaker 3 (25:38):
So this is deadlift or squat, pan and jerk. What
do you lift when you're doing powerlift?
Speaker 4 (25:44):
Yeah, so parloting is is bench, preuss, squat and deadlift.
You get three attempts at each lift. Usually if you
do it correctly, your third attempt is going to be
your highest and they add up the total of all
those lifts and that's that's what that's how you actually
win is you take the three lifts and you get
the kinlyft total. So it's just it's ultimate. Just kind
(26:04):
of like growing up.
Speaker 3 (26:07):
So let me let me tell you what this is like,
which was like you're gonna think this, this is a
weird thing. Okay, this is My daughter is a show jumper. Okay,
now she's going to college and she has to learn
a different discipline called equitation, but she's a show jumper.
And what show jumping is is a lot like what
you're describing. Because you have hunter jumper, you.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
Have equitation, yoursage is something totally different. You have all these.
Speaker 3 (26:33):
Things where they're they're grading and scoring things, and show
jumping is just go as fast as you can and
don't hit any rails.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
Right, that's basically is there an art to it?
Speaker 3 (26:42):
Like, yes, there absolutely is, but it's go as fast
as you can and don't hit any rails. And what
you're saying is that's what powerlifting is, like it takes
all the judgments, like just lift in three different disciplines.
Just lift as much weight as you can.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
Yeah, yeah, okay, okay. Like how much of a subculture.
Speaker 3 (27:04):
How how popular it is powerlifting in comparison, because I
we don't hear anything about powerlifting we do about bodybuilding. Yeah,
how popular is powerlifting internationally?
Speaker 4 (27:17):
It's actually very big international. So powerlifting has I'm not
sure if it's still the same, but they have a
So they have where you have your local competitions, do
you have your state level competitions, and you have your
national do you have your international international? I think that
they take the best lifters from every single country and
they all go compete and they basically just who has
(27:37):
the biggest total. Now that parloating used to be in
the Olympics. It used to be actually an Olympic Now
it's in the Olympic Games, but it used to be
in the Olympics. I believe there was some drug testing
controversy because the Olympics are very strict, so guys are
getting caught. They were getting popped for using and then
they ended up banning it. But now, as far as
(27:59):
like culture, you not, the State's bodybuilding is obviously bigger.
It's just more of a freak show. And I think
the entertainment value of watching a bodybuilding competition is much easier.
It's only going to be like an hour or two
powerlifting that like some of those meats, man, those things
can be like five or six hours long, and it
never really put like the production value into it. So
(28:19):
you have to be really into the sport to actually
like watch and consume the content. But every time the
massive lift happens, it goes everywhere. It goes viral and
Bleacher Report, ESPN, all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
No question.
Speaker 3 (28:30):
Okay, so what are you eating? What is a diet
of a powerlifter.
Speaker 4 (28:35):
Like, it's called a seafood diet. So everything you see
you eat, you do have to gain weight. So like aig,
a bigger guy has more leverage, he's gonna lift more weight.
So it's encouraging for you to especially if you're at
the bottom en of your weight class to just eat
more to get to the top end of it. So
it's not as strict and as rigid as like a
(28:57):
bodybuilding diet. That's that's wildly different, but piloting diet essentially,
you're trying to get plenty of protein, lots of carbohydrates,
lots of lots of carbs, and a little bit more
fat than what you would traditionally get on a bodybuilding diet,
and you get a lot of a lot more cheap mills.
Like I would say, like a piloting diet. When done correctly,
you probably eat like two to three cheat meals per week,
so you get you're always in a chloric star. Plus
(29:18):
you're not really suffering, so you feel very good going
into competition.
Speaker 2 (29:23):
The common perception is eating whatever you want.
Speaker 3 (29:26):
You just eat a ton of food and a lot
of protein, and you're taking all those drugs anyway, so
all that fat burns off and you have these games.
What's the reality to what's a bodybuilding diet?
Speaker 4 (29:39):
Yeah, bots of bodybuilding. This is the common misconception of bodybuilding.
Bodybuilding is ninety percent genetics. Ninety percent genetics. You can
give a Joe Smoe off the street, every single stereo
under the sun and pump them to the gills. But
he probably won't even win a local competition because it's ninety.
It's kind of like, there's a reason why Lebron James
(30:00):
is Lebron James. He's six ' nine two point fifty
at his best ran I think like a four to
four forty and has like a forty forty plus introvertical
whatever he ask like you, that's just what his makeup is.
Same thing with guys in body building, and the top
guys that are always going to compete at a high
level are it's genetics. But then after that, yeah, the
(30:21):
drugs are a big part of it because you have
to take that in order to enhance what you already have.
That's all. That's all it's going to do. But the
diet is is really like the thing that separates people.
When I nailed down the diet when I was in
my early twenties, that felt like getting on like anabolics,
like that was the hugest thing.
Speaker 3 (30:39):
Okay, so you so you wake up in the morning,
wake up in the morning, give me give me this
as your your bodybuilding yep.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
Okay, wake up in the morning.
Speaker 4 (30:48):
What time, yep, So wake up in the morning, eight
egg whites, two whole eggs, two slices of ezekiel bread,
about a cup of oat meal, and maybe like a
little bit of like blueberry sprinkling on top of that.
That would be the breakfast. You're coming back about two
to four hours later, usually about four hours later, and
(31:09):
you're having eight ounces eight to ten ounces of chicken
breast with like a sweet potato and then like a
side of vegetables. Then another repeat that for meal three
after you get done on training, protein shake about fifty
grands of protein, and then for the last meal of
the day is either going to be like salmon or
steak with a rice and a vegetable. So all in all,
(31:32):
it's that that's pretty much like what the meals. That's
what my diet looked like getting ready for a competition.
And I'll have one day per week where those meals
would the protein sources would stay the same, but the
carbohydrates would double, so the carbs would be called a
refeed day, carbs would go like twice as much. And yeah,
you have to do that for about twelve twenty weeks.
Speaker 1 (31:53):
At a time.
Speaker 2 (31:53):
Why do you live up in the carbons one day with.
Speaker 4 (31:56):
Yeah, the science behind the theory really about to the
reef your day is that it helps to stimulate more
fat burning hormones and also it's gonna help to replenish
glycogen store. So that's like where the store carbohydrates are
withinside of the muscles, so that that's so like when
you get lean, you don't have that stringy look your
(32:16):
your muscles are pumped, they're around, they're full, they're vascular.
You want to kind of when you're dieting. You think
of it like landing in an airplane. If you come
down too fast, it's gonna crash. You're gonna look like
shit on stage. But if you come down nice and
slow and you're you're you're really you know, moderating everything,
you're gonna you're gonna look even bigger than you were
(32:36):
twenty thirty or forty pounds ago. That's how you die
it correctly. You should look bigger as you come down.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
Wow. That sounds crazy expensive, by the way.
Speaker 4 (32:49):
It's actually not. You know, when you buy in bulk
and you buy boring food like chicken, steak, rice, salmon,
it's actually really relatively inexpensive. I remember in college I
was able to, you know, because that's when I turned pro.
I was eating. My weekly budget for groceries was anywhere
between eighty and one hundred and twenty bucks. Really really cheap.
(33:09):
So for especially for consuming that much food, It's just
like when you get into the middle of the store
in a grocery store. That's where stuff gets expensive because
you're not getting a whole lot of value out of
the servings that they're actually giving you. When you're buying
like five pounds of chicken breasts bro that was like
I remember it was like eight bucks, nine bucks when
I was in college for five pounds it's a lot
(33:31):
of food, you know. And then a bag of rice.
What is a bag of rice? Bag of rice is
like three four five bucks for like a huge bag
of rice that could last you for two three weeks.
Really cheap.
Speaker 2 (33:41):
Why'd you stop? Power level?
Speaker 4 (33:43):
Ah? Yeah, no money in it, you know. Like uh,
I was so I remember Raw Nationals, which is the
national level pilatin competition. I believe it was twenty seventeen.
I was watching it. There was a guy there that's
a lot at one thousand pounds and went everywhere. It
was on all across social media. Couldn't get it off
(34:06):
my feed. Multiple people took the image of him doing
that and use it to sell you know, equipment, different gear, apparel,
whatever it was. And the amount of money that that
guy got from that was zero dollars. Because the Federation
makes you sign over the rights to any type of
media that is taken while you're in competition, and they
(34:28):
own it, so they could sell stuff for your likeness
or whatever cool things that you do while you're like
whatever awesome feats of strength you do on stage, they
could sell that, but you don't get any return on it.
So when I saw that, I was just like, yeah,
this is kind of like. I love the sport. I
love the the the challenge of it. I love competing,
(34:49):
but if I'm going to dedicate my body and my
energy and my mind for that much like time to something,
it's got to be an ROI positive activity. So happy
that I did it, like I love it. I learned
so much from it that's helped me in many different ways.
But it just didn't make sense economically like to do
something like that because essentially you're a pro athlete, but
(35:11):
you're not getting paid like.
Speaker 3 (35:12):
One's that is therein lies the rub.
Speaker 2 (35:17):
There definitely lies the rub. Okay.
Speaker 3 (35:22):
So so how'd you decide to make money?
Speaker 4 (35:29):
Yeah? So during this time period, I had actually gotten
to what I'm doing now in my early twenties when
I started coaching people, and that for me was a
really fulfilling journey because it was essentially me being able
to do the same thing for others of which I've
done for myself through the process. Because yeah, while be it,
(35:51):
a lot of the stuff that goes on with a
transformation is physical, like that's what people see on the outside,
but the most reroording thing is actually what happens mentally,
and I you know, a lot of people in the
industry as a whole tends to miss that. It's really
just focused on the the visual aspect of things, which
(36:13):
I think is it can be quite shallow. But I
marry the two, so I focus on the mindset and
the physical side of things. So, uh, that's why I
started doing in my early twenties. It really took off
after I turned pro that I moved out to Los
Angeles and that's where things really really shot off and
(36:33):
then got into what I'm doing now with with with
T three. So yeah, that's how I Also, I make
my living. I make I'm very fortunate make a really
good living doing so, and it's very very fulfilling and
very rewarding for me.
Speaker 3 (36:47):
Well, so what you do this different than other people
is it's a it's a it's the term I think
it's when it's not just about working out right, it's
like a holistic approach. Right, there's a mental aspect of it,
which with reading as well as your diet as well
(37:09):
as your workouts. How did you how'd you become aware
that the mental aspect was such a huge element to.
Speaker 4 (37:18):
It, because that was the thing that enabled me to
reach my highest potential when I was a young man
was not being mentally aligned in harmony with the things
that I wanted in life. And the reason why I
wasn't because there was a lot of shortcomings and a
lot of inadequacies which I had within myself. So in
order to actually get and acquire those things I wanted
(37:39):
all of life, first I had to work on those
inadequacies in my shortcomings and get in harmony with those things.
And then it's just a it's not if if you're
going to get it, it's just when it pulls it
towards you, you're more attractive, like it attracts towards you.
So that's where I did that, because ultimately I got
into the sport of bodybuilding because I was depressed U
(38:00):
because I didn't feel so great about myself. So I
use it as a tool to help build myself back up.
And then from there it was okay, what, like, what
was the reason why I did not get to the
next level of basketball? Because I wanted to be a
professional basketball player, Like that was my dream growing up
as a kid. And yeah, you can probably say, like,
you know, I'm not six six or whatever and all
this kind of stuff, But to me that that's just that,
(38:21):
that's kind of like it's kicking the blame off. And
I don't think you. I don't think winners do that.
I don't think you get very far doing that. What
I had come to found it was a shortcoming of
my mentality. It was a shortcoming in me not assessing
my weaknesses and working on them, and it was it
was a shortcoming in my work ethic. So those are
things that I took now today and I'm like, Okay,
never again will I ever be in that position where
if I have an opportunity to maximize on my potential
(38:44):
on something, then I'm going to fall short of that.
Uh So, yeah, that's kind of like how I how
I got to that. That whole thing is you know,
a lot. You know, people want things out of life,
whether it be more money, more muscles, better relationship, more
mental and cognitive strength, whatever it may be. And first
we must look inside to see, okay, like what like
(39:08):
where are my shortcomings? Like what are the things I
need to work on actually get these things? And am
I in harmony with those things? So if you're in
harmony with it, it's gonna come to you.
Speaker 3 (39:20):
What of the challenges of kind of this era obviously, like, look,
there's some really good challenges, right COVID I think provided a.
Speaker 2 (39:30):
Lot more where.
Speaker 3 (39:32):
You know, doing online coaching became very very normal and
people started to work out more at home. On the
other hand, as you pointed out, like people's mentalities have
changed and there's you know, some approaches don't work anymore.
What's what are the inherent challenges of doing this in
two thousands doing what you do in twenty twenty four.
Speaker 4 (39:56):
That's a good question. There's no challenges I could really
think of off the bat, uh that I could really
come to because I I think that the way at
least that question is coming across to me is like
what limitations are there? And I don't really see Yeah yeah,
(40:16):
I don't really like.
Speaker 3 (40:18):
Like all of our jobs and again maybe all of
our jobs have changed in the last couple of years, right,
some for the better, some for the worse.
Speaker 2 (40:28):
You know, Like again, were you like you and I were.
Speaker 3 (40:31):
Doing this on Zoom? Who did this stuff on Zoom
before COVID? Right, I'm sure it existed, nobody knew and
who definitely wasn't a fall back up. I'm just wondering
what's changed in this coaching industry for better or for
worse in the past couple of years.
Speaker 4 (40:50):
Ah okay, so like the industry as.
Speaker 2 (40:52):
A whole, uh or for you, for you and your business?
Speaker 4 (40:57):
Yeah yeah, so for me. So for me, I think
the business evolved because I evolved when I was in
Los Angeles and I was working with people like one
on one, like a very few, select elite group of people.
The thing that I fund that actually made them successful
when it came to fitness was these interactions. It wasn't
actually the x's and o's of the training because like
(41:21):
if if if so, for instance, if somebody's mental shit
is not altogether, if their life is in scrambles to
like like like their emotional life, their relationship life and
everything like that, and they don't have a really good
self image, that's a lot of shit out just throughout you.
But like, let's just say like all those things exist, right,
(41:41):
There's no fucking way they're going to stick to a
diet and a training program. Even if a trainer comes
and pulls their ass out of bed, force them to
go do the gym, forces them do the reps, They're
gonna fucking fail. So the thing that has to be
fixed is their fucking life entirely. So the thing that
I found was like, okay, cool, we got to build
up your self image first. Your self image is how
you see yourself. Do you love yourself? Do you like yourself?
Because if you really do, and that's fucking true, you're
(42:03):
not lying yourself about it. You're gonna treat yourself like
somebody that that you love. So like, for ins is, Doug,
would you do something amazing for your daughters? Like would
you give them the world? Would you make sure that
they have a safe would you make sure? Absolutely? Because
why you love them? Right? So, when somebody is out
of shape, treating their body like shit, not going to
(42:24):
the gym, not working out, that is a sign of
a lack of self love. You don't love yourself. I
don't care abou don't give a fuck how many rolex
did you put on your fucking wrist. I don't care
about what the car you're driving your driveway doesn't mean
shit like it's it's it's a compensation. So we have
to actually go down to the root calls of why
is there a lack of self love? We have to
fix that. We have to have those tough conversations with
ourself and once that gets fixed, then it's a lot
(42:46):
easier to give yourself the best of things in life.
So when I was doing, like, you know, like all
those transformations and change people's lives to the one on
one person, I was like, yeah, like giving you all
the shit that die all that time, Yeah, that matters,
but it's not the most important thing. The most important
think it's fixing this up here. Once that gets fixed,
it's like light speed to your goals because that internal
friction isn't there anymore. You stop getting in your own
(43:09):
fucking way, You stop making excuses because you're like, I
actually want to give myself a great fucking body, because
I deserve this shit. I actually want to give myself
the easy fucking life. That's amazing, because I deserve this shit.
A lot of our problems we fucking cause them. We
cause them. It's not the world. So we have to
fix ourselves. We want our problems to go away. It's
as opposed to blaming everybody else.
Speaker 1 (43:31):
I want to.
Speaker 3 (43:32):
I want to do a part two upcoming, but I
got to cut it right now at part one. If
somebody wants to get a hold of you, if somebody
wants to begin the process of fixing their shit, how
they do it?
Speaker 4 (43:44):
Yeah, the easiest way to get in contact with me
is on Instagram coach JC White, or they can go
to T three body training dot com. But the easiest
ways is to hit me there in box me. We'll
have a conversation back and forth, and then we'll hop
on a call and we'll see if I can even help.
You know, I like to, you know, we like to
go through a process with anybody who's interested to make
sure that we actually can help them and they're a
(44:04):
good fit. And if they are, then we'll get rock
and roller.
Speaker 2 (44:08):
Okay, here's what I want.
Speaker 3 (44:09):
Here's your Homer project for the next time, because you
always give me a homework, right, homer project is okay?
Speaker 2 (44:14):
For a young athlete, hey, how can you.
Speaker 3 (44:21):
How can you start the process of like you said,
it's like self love, but also understanding how to kind
of change your guet change your body at a younger age.
How do you how do we do that? What would
if you were to advise you're a coach, which you are,
but like a basketball coach or a football coach to
(44:42):
advise a young athlete, how do you get through to them?
And how do you start to change what they eat
and how they mentally see themselves. That's your Homer project
and then we'll get to that next time.
Speaker 2 (44:52):
Is that cool?
Speaker 4 (44:53):
Yeah? For sure. So essentially, let's just do a case study.
So we got a fifteen year old kid, he plays
football or basketball and he is not great. How do
we get him to start to get on the diet
and take that more seriously so that he can get
to the next level?
Speaker 1 (45:07):
Correct? Cool?
Speaker 2 (45:08):
All right?
Speaker 4 (45:08):
Cool? Yeah? I got the answers, But I'll say it
for next time.
Speaker 1 (45:11):
I know you do. All right, we'll talk shit right.
Speaker 4 (45:13):
All sounds good, brother?
Speaker 1 (45:15):
Yeah? All right, that's Part one of J C. White.
Speaker 3 (45:21):
What we're going to do is we'll work in Part
two upcoming, which is more kind of putting together a plan,
and especially with spring and summer upon us, it's a
pretty good way to have just kind of a rough plan.
And I think most people believe they know, you know,
how to change their body and how to change their mentality,
(45:42):
but actually doing it, executing it, and how to think
through it.
Speaker 1 (45:45):
We'll get to that in Part two with JC White.
Speaker 3 (45:47):
In the meantime, I'm Doug Gottlieb, and make sure you
download the Doug Gottlieb Show Daily podcast. It's a radio
show and a one hour podcast. Just I've been Doug Gottlieb.
We ever got this one, you can probably get it
as well. Mentime, thanks to much the JC Dan Panaman
Part two is coming up.
Speaker 1 (46:03):
I'm Doug Gottlieve. This is all ball
Speaker 3 (46:22):
H
Hey, want to welcome in. I'm Doug Gottlie.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
This is All Ball.
Speaker 3 (00:08):
We're gonna take a bit of a left turn from
some of our basketball storytelling. And don't worry if you're
a Dan Putaman fan. I've had so many texts and
tweets and d ms from people we want to see
here Part two. We'll drop part two with Dan this
upcoming week. But let's let's get to part one with
a good friend of mine.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
His name is j C.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
White.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
He runs T three Body and he's but he's more
than a trainer. It's a holistic approach. But what's interesting is,
you know, in in our search for our zest for
like sports and and and the kind of connection of
all sports and the connection of kind of the mind,
(00:50):
the body, everything that goes into it, there's also the hey,
I'd love for if you listen to all ball, find
different ways to have different avenues to make money. And
jac was a guy who was hooper in high school,
wasn't good enough to play in college, became all about
kind of bodybuilding and weightlifting, and then it's turned it
into being as successful professionally as anybody in the country.
(01:11):
So we'll get to that upcoming some quick thoughts on
some of the ANIL stuff. You know, it's it's fascinating
to see coaches leave and the assumption is when they
step up a level, that they bring their best players
with them. And what's happened is, and this is with
Dusty May a little bit with Josh Shirts. You look
(01:32):
around the country and some of these coaches that have
switched ups, they've many of them have taken their best player,
but it's a little bit harder to get everybody with you.
And what happens is when you know you have changed places,
it allows those players to hit the open market, and
they're playing the market. And what's interesting about the nil
(01:53):
is space is the phases of it.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
You know, you had the right when the season was over.
A good portion.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
Of the players that immediately put themselves in the portal,
it was not really their choice. It may have been
their choice because they wanted more playing time, but it
was not really a lot of times their choice in
that the coach was probably thinking, you may want to
find yourself somewhere else to play. I can help you
out put yourself in the portal. Then there's the you know,
guys that have been we knew were going to be
(02:22):
in the portal for a long time, and they put
their names in and many of them are signing at places.
Then you have the list of what you'd call quasi
kind of elite players, many of whom are sitting there
with a COVID year that they could still use, and
oftentimes they're declaring for the NBA Draft as kind of
a pause.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
It doesn't put them in the portal.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
Because it's still you know, their current school is still
quasi on the hook, but it can put them in
the dark portal where, yeah, they can see what their
value would be if they were to go to the
NBA Draft, or they can see what their value would
be if they stay in college. And I think there's
a good list of those players that we still don't
(03:06):
know exactly what their future is and that's kind of
going to determine a lot of the elite stuff. But
the money being thrown around is crazy. And I thought
Dan's eye opening podcast it was just the start of
the story. We'll get more into it upcoming this week.
As for the NBA Playoffs, you know, I'm intrigued by
(03:29):
by the Timberwolves and what they did the Suns in
Game one, the Suns just you know, Grace to Allen
has to be a lot better, has to be a
lot more effective. If you're only going to get handful
of points off your bench, your starters have to be
playing an elite level. And Kevin Durant was plenty good
enough at least at the offensive end, but they got
to figure out how to get other weapons involved. They
(03:51):
can't simply attack Rudy Gobert on the perimeter. There has
to be other ways in which they can generate offense
otherwise could be a short playoff runt of the Suns.
And you know with Ibshez there as your owner man,
that he's the kind of guy that may get rid
of half the team, even though they still really haven't
played much together in terms of a Big three. Obviously,
(04:14):
most people are trying to figure out what do we
do with a thunder? When they get to the playoffs,
it feels like they dodged a bit of a bullet
with Zion being hurt. Don't get me wrong, the Pells
are still talented, but Zion's a completely different dynamic and
we're kind of robbed right now.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
Zion, assuming that hamstring.
Speaker 3 (04:31):
Keeps him out of seeing what he looks like in
playoffs basketball and some other guys like we have with
the Thunder and then the Lakers and the Nuggets, and look,
you brought in a point guard who you thought could
challenge D'Angelo Russell.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
But like here we are again, and D'Angel.
Speaker 3 (04:50):
Russell's your starting point guard, and he's just not good
enough against the Nuggets. Whether it's his it's not just
his defense, because Jamal Murray didn't light him up. It's
there's not a lot of tough to there rebounding wise,
there's just not a lot of fifty fifty balls that
he gets his hands on. And then and on some
levels he feels so shook that it affects his offense
and he missed a big layup. Don't get me wrong,
(05:11):
He's not the only reason they lost in Game one.
Lebron James somehow avoiding any sort of negative vibes, he
had seven turnovers in the game. But for the Lakers,
if you know, I just don't understand the two things
I don't understand with the Lakers. I like the things
that Rob Polinka has done for the most part, and
you know, the I don't believe the Westbrook move was
(05:34):
his call. But getting what rid of Westbrook and reforming
the roster was they did a great job. And I
think he knew, you know, he knew that that Bianzel
Russell wasn't gonna be good enough.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
Why do you resign him? Like, did you resign him
because you know to trade him?
Speaker 3 (05:51):
I don't, I don't. I never loved that idea. And
your little snake bit right, like, you go and get
a point guard who starts from my last year and
they go to the finals and he essentially never plays
for you, so that you know, maybe you had to
know better. But there's also a part of it to
which it's just unlucky. But the two things I don't
(06:12):
understand what the Lakers is why they brought back to
Angel Russell and why they didn't draft Homy hawk As. ANDOK,
plenty of other teams didn't draft Hoemy hawk As. But
let's be honest. If you're the Lakers and he's in
your backyard, kids, just a stud, he checks every box
and he helps you off the floor with Hispanic demographic.
Not that that's why you would draft him, but he's
(06:32):
just a kind of a perfect fit and you're in
win now mode, you drafted a you draft a player
who's nineteen, He's not going to help you for a
couple of years as opposed to hot ass draft you. Now,
so those are the two that jump out to me,
and I think both of those are kind of coming
back to roost for him. All Right, more hoop talk upcoming.
Let's dig in. This is my friend JC White te
(06:53):
three body is this company? Here's his story before we
get to who you are? Now, what's your sports background?
Speaker 1 (07:03):
Jac?
Speaker 2 (07:04):
What were you like as an athlete in high school?
Speaker 4 (07:07):
Yeah? I played basketball pretty much my whole life. I
was All State, first team, All League. I was a deep,
decent hooper, but the muscle and the more of the
athleticism came a little bit after high school.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
Oh anyway, so like what high school?
Speaker 4 (07:25):
I want to andover in Bloomfield Hills, Michigan.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
Okay, where is that? That's that's outside that's suburban Detroit.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
Correct.
Speaker 4 (07:32):
Yeah, yeah, it's about thirty to thirty minutes outside of Detroit,
heading like towards Lansing.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
Okay, you were what year are you? All State?
Speaker 4 (07:43):
Two thousand and seven was the year that I was
All State?
Speaker 2 (07:46):
Okay? And point guard? Two guard? Like you're a big dude.
You're not a big dude. What was your what was
your position of choice?
Speaker 4 (07:55):
Yeah, so I played like one through four because I
was I could leap back in the day, Like my
vertical is like forty inches, so I could get up there.
So being about six foot six foot one, they have
you play anywhere from the one through the four, So
I was kind of like a flex and it was tough. Man.
Sometimes I had to guard some of the guys that
were like six six six seven and trying to you know.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
There's nothing fun about that.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
Nothing fun about My advice.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
On post defense is now, well, I don't know. That's
what they teach you when you play professionally. It's just
like you ain't kind of bad miss match just like
now you get five more.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
Yeah, yeah, that position.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
Again.
Speaker 4 (08:33):
I would just try to bait them into taking a
try to use their height so I could at least
leap to try to contest the shot. But if they
if they were smart and they just hit me with
like a hook or you know, just lowered their shoulder
a little bit and use their offan to shoot, there's
not much I could do about that.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
Yeah, didn't shoot in a body building like right after
high school.
Speaker 4 (08:52):
I got into it. In college. I started training like
pretty serious around like nineteen twenty years old, and I
turned pro at twenty two, which maybe the second youngest
person to do.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
So Okay, so let's go back. Where'd you go to college?
Speaker 4 (09:05):
Michigan State?
Speaker 3 (09:06):
Okay, so go to Michigan State. This in the peak
of the early Iszo era, Right, yep, how did you be?
How'd you find a love for bodybuilding? Weightlifting? Like?
Speaker 2 (09:16):
Where did that come from?
Speaker 4 (09:18):
Yeah? So after I got done playing basketball. You know,
I think as athletes, we always have this need to express,
you know, some type of physical demand of the body.
We're used to pushing ourselves, We're used to challenging ourselves.
And I no longer had that because I didn't play
basketball at the next level. And so I kind of
just stumbled into the gym one day and I used
to hate it. I used to think it sucked. I
(09:40):
used to be really weak, not not that strong, and
I just kind of like just did a circuit around
the gym and for whatever is like.
Speaker 3 (09:49):
The students like the student center Michigan State, or is
this back home in Bloomfield? Where is it When you
first started out of your weightlifting journey.
Speaker 4 (09:57):
Yeah, so this this was actually my freshman year, which
I did my did my first year at Western Michigan
before I transferred to Michgon State. So I calm yeah,
Calama zoo, Yep, yep, this is back. This was two
thousand and so this one they had a great Jennings.
I'm not sure he played for the Green Bay package
for a little bit around that time with the football
team was decent, but anyway, so yeah, I kind of
(10:20):
stumbled my way in there, uh and just did like
I just worked out for like three hours and didn't
really have a planner direction of that time, but it
seemed to help me feel better because I was kind
of sad about not playing ball anymore. And then it
just kind of spiraled into what it is today.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
Oh coo, let's let's let's get to that spiral. Okay.
Speaker 3 (10:42):
So you start start working out, okay, and all of
a sudden your body starts changing, right you're like nineteen,
Like everybody starts to get those band muscles.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
How did you.
Speaker 3 (10:51):
Take it from there to getting into becoming a pro
body build? Like?
Speaker 1 (10:56):
What's what was the progression?
Speaker 2 (10:57):
Like?
Speaker 4 (10:58):
Yeah, so I remember I was, you know, I gained
that freshman fifteen originally, right, So like, you know, you
go it off the school, you're the first time away
from home, You're you're eating like you know, can we
curse at all? Or is this we got to keep
it really restricted?
Speaker 2 (11:14):
Dude?
Speaker 4 (11:16):
So I was eating like shit, drinking, drinking pretty much Thursday,
thirsty Thursdays, all the way till you know, Sunday. You
know that that fifteen kind of popped on me quick.
So first it was just Okay, I just want to
look like how I did in high school. You know,
I always pretty much had abs or a sixpack, you know,
being an athlete my entire life, And it was just
getting back to that basis. Well, then, because I actually
(11:39):
started to enjoy the process, I started learning more about
nutrition and started learning more about supplementation and how much
actually goes into that whole entire process of getting on
stage and competing and getting more muscular, getting stronger. It
actually really started to fascinate me, and so I started
the question like, Okay, what's the next progressive step to this?
(12:00):
If I actually wanted to compete in some aspect, whether
it be Olympic lifting, powerlifting, or bodybuilding competitions and that's
where I started to explore. Like you know, fitness modeling
was like the first thing I got into, So I
was like, okay, cool. It was a show out in
Las Vegas. It was a search for a muscle and
fitness male model kind of like covers, like they were
(12:23):
really going to do like thousands of guys. And that
was the first thing that I ever stepped into. Didn't
do so well, but it introduced me to the whole industry.
Speaker 3 (12:33):
Was there was there a like a friend, like, I mean,
how do you discover all this stuff on your own
in Michigan? Like how do you you know? Was there
somebody's like, here's my guy and he told me all
this stuff. How do you go from Hey, I'm just
kind of interested in it. Started working my body too.
Now I'm going out to the show in Vegas.
Speaker 4 (12:55):
Yeah, that's that's the that's the funny part. Man, And
I wish I had a coach back then. But this
was the early days of YouTube, like when YouTube was
first getting on the scene, like the late you know,
two thousands to twenty ten around that time period. So uh,
I'm not sure if for remember, but like like Ronnie Coleman,
Jay Cutler. They were putting out like these video like
(13:16):
vlogs and then prepping for competitions like the Mister Olympia competitions.
And I essentially when I first got into it was
just mimicking everything that I saw them do. This is
kind of like what I did in basketball to as well,
Like cause I you know, I didn't really have a
whole lot of one on one instructions, but when I
if I saw somebody execute something or they'd be like,
you know, how are they coming off the pick and
roll or like their footwork or something like that, I
(13:37):
would immediately go and try it and do it and
try to do it for myself. So bodybuilding was kind
of like the same thing, where it was seeing them
how they prepped their food the daily and like the lifestyle,
how they were training, and just kind of just just
following that. Was it the most optimal or best approach, No,
(13:58):
but it was a good kind of like framework for
me to start with. Because the most important thing in
being successful with any endeavor, but definitely with this is
just the consistency of the effort. So that's what really
paid off more than anything, was just being consistent. And yeah,
that's like kind of how I prepped for my first show.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
Okay, what about supplementation.
Speaker 3 (14:23):
What was that like back that in terms of what
you're not just food but like what you're actually taking
your body.
Speaker 4 (14:29):
Yeah, so back then it was all pseudoscience, like I
was taking. Like I don't want to beat up on
any other companies back then, but it was just all
like like the pseudoscience is bro science, you know, like
it was stuff that wasn't going to actually truly have
any impactful change on your body for the price point
of which you were purchasing at. So it was just
like overhyped, over marketed products add fifteen pounds of muscle
(14:52):
in thirty days and stuff like that, Like it was say,
but it you know, realistically, it was just you know,
really heavily inflated creating products or stuff that really didn't
do any that good. So, like, it wasn't anything crazy
back then. And at the time, I didn't want to
flirt around with any of the performance enhancing drugs. Not
only I did not have access to it because I
(15:13):
was a college kidch in Michigan, like that stuff's not
easy to come by. Two, I was inherently I knew
I was really young still and my body hadn't fully
developed yet, so I wanted to give it enough time
to see where I can get without having to use
any like help, like, because I didn't.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
Want to stay some legit though I get it first
shot there.
Speaker 4 (15:39):
Yeah, I didn't know that people, So this is kind
of like fast forward into the future. So I did
a few more shows and finally I did I put
it all together. I got way more scientific with the process,
actually had some help, got a coach and everything like that,
and I did not turn pro with twenty two. I
didn't actually find out that everybody was using though until
(15:59):
my first pro show. That was like the rudest awakening.
I was not only the youngest guy on stage. The
guy who actually won that pro show was about fifteen
years older than me. But they all were using not
just one or two steroids, but like eight or nine
was a part of their protocols and prepping for shows.
And I was only twenty three, I believe twenty three
(16:19):
or twenty yeah, twenty three when I did my first
pro show. So the guy who won it was like
thirty seven or thirty eight or something like that. So
like that was when I had like my rude awakening,
and I was like, not only am I these guys
have decades of me of training, but they're also using
a fuck ton of drugs. So if I was gonna
have to compete at that level with those guys, either
one or two things is not gonna give it more time,
(16:40):
let my body develop because like you know, genetically, I
could keep up with a lot of people. So like,
if I just gave myself more time, I would be
able to compete at a high level. Or two I
was gonna have to hop one. Number two was kind
of out of the option, still way too young. So
it was just training more, trains, smarter, and give it
more time.
Speaker 5 (16:59):
Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in
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Speaker 3 (17:12):
Okay, so so then take me through the progression. So
you make this decision, I can't get on that train.
I'm not ready for that.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
Then on.
Speaker 4 (17:21):
Yeah, So at that point, it was how can I
compete at a high level but not compromise, for one
my integrity, Like what I'm what I'm not willing to
do yet and still have fun with the process. So
then that's when I transition and got into powerlifting. Powerlifting
the you know, oddly enough, the highest level of bodybuilding
(17:46):
you have to use. It's all steroids. Like the drug
testing competitions nobody gives a fuck about like and for
the most part, the feat physiques aren't that impressive because
usually the guys who are really you know, genetically blessed
all end up gear at some point, so they all
end up, you know, competing with everybody else who is
using it. But powerlifting, the highest, most best sanctioned, you know,
(18:09):
competitions are actually all drug tested, and then when you
compete at a high level there, they actually random drug
test throughout the year. So actually I was drug tested
I think like two or three times, well, all powerlifting.
So that's when I was a transition to this. I
was say, okay, let me put bodybuilding on the back
burner for right now. I'll circle back to this maybe
at a later date. Let me go ahead and compete
in powerlifting for one too. It's objective. It reminds me
(18:30):
of playing a sport, so like, you know, bodybuilding is subjective. Yeah,
they have like a grading criteria and kind of like
a score. But at the end of the day, you know,
the beauty is in the eye to beholder, so to speak.
So like the judges are often be going to decide
what they're looking for. They might want more size on
that day, but they might want more shape, they might
more win symmetry. So that's kind of like the challenging
part about bodybuilding. But powerlo thing is like did you
just lift more than the man next to you? Fucking
(18:53):
love that it's unarguable, and plus is just really fucking strong,
Like it's really fucking fun to be strong. I think
as a man, we all, you know, admired really strong
masculine men. We were growing up at least you know,
my generation and before. I don't know about the kids today, but.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
I think it's still I think it's still today.
Speaker 3 (19:14):
I think I actually think that, uh I, And probably
it might even matter more now, you know, because they
have like you go to college campuses.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
I do think, like you go to.
Speaker 3 (19:26):
To the workout gyms or whatever, and kids are more
into their body. Like I remember when I so I
played in college obviously before when you were probably like
in middle school.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
I finished up in two thousand, but.
Speaker 3 (19:41):
You know, when I was when I was coming up,
I had my trainer was a guy Mark Rinovich, Marv's son.
Marv was the former strength coach of the Rams, played
in the NFL himself, and you know, Todd of course,
his son was a first round traffick, and he was
seen by people who didn't know him as you know,
(20:03):
kind of like it seems like some sort of lunatic
any of us who worked with him, like he was
a genius. But we were way ahead with diet and
you know, he was big on the zone diet forty
thirty thirty and and and send some supplementation, but it
was a lot more from like a a chemistry sort
(20:25):
of background, right like that that was that was how
he went about it. But the point is when I
was in college, like I was literally the only guy
on my team to really really worry about what I
was eating. And then you know, even at even at
my school, there wasn't anybody who would go in there.
(20:46):
You felt like it was really worried about kind of
what they were eating, how they were lifting, all the
things that athletes did. Whereas now I think, you go
and I think that's changed again. It's still more niche,
but you know, like frat boys are a lot more
into looking good and being cut and getting big than
they used to be just about kind of like drinking
(21:08):
beer or whatever. I think there's it's I think fitness
is a lot more part of you know, my own
daughter is going to college next year, and you know, again,
she's not a bodybuilder, but she's taken spin class, and like,
who did that? None of the girls did that when
I was in high school, you know, So I think
that part is interesting. But okay, so when you're doing
(21:30):
you're doing powerlifting. Hey, here's the first question I think
most people want to know, but they fail to ask.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
Or are afraid to ask.
Speaker 3 (21:40):
Our bodybuilder is actually strong? Or is there just an
art to making your body look strong?
Speaker 4 (21:46):
Our bodybuilders strong? Fuck? No, fuck no. That's one of
the things that I've hated about it is like these
guys would be monsters, right, absolutely huge muscles bursting through
the shirt. But when you get them in the gym,
you can out like a really good athlete who's trained
correctly can kick their ass in the gym. Like it's
(22:06):
strictly just for cosmetics. So the one thing that I
always wanted to be was kind of like a dual athlete,
where not I only not only looked the part, but
I could move very well. I was also very strong.
My body was also very mobile.
Speaker 3 (22:20):
You want to be you want to be like so
like stiff, like big huge neck bodybuilder.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
Can't move so bro so yeah, you know the guy.
We all know the guy.
Speaker 4 (22:31):
Yeah, like and that's that's not that's not. That was
never appealing to me, Like I was always a bigger
fan of the bodybuilding in the in the classic era,
like Arnold Schwarzerenegger, Insurgent of Bray, like those physiques to
me always looked very uh, very balanced, very proportionate, but
also very athletic. To at the same time, like they
looked like they could still go out and run like
a forty yard dash. They was like, you know, if
you've got a scrap with them, and that would not
(22:51):
be a good time. The bodybuilders today, I mean, they're
they're so big and a mobile, like it's it's just, uh,
it's impressive the size that they put on, but it's
not it's not something that I think a lot of
people would would want to look like. But to you,
to your point, you said something earlier about you know,
the kids today and like them, you know, be going
(23:13):
into the gym. I think that actually might be that
people are just more health conscious today. I think that's
more of the trend. But the the reason why, like
I got into it, like I just admire like masculinity
and being strong and being powerful like that. That to
me was like the appeal, whereas I think today I don't.
I think people may do it for more of a
(23:34):
visual reason, like they want to look cool, they want
to look sick. The people are definitely way more health
conscious today, even though America as a whole is fatter
than it's ever been. But for me, it was like
growing up my like my heroes were always it was
Arnold Schwarzenegger, pro wrestlers, like superheroes like that. That to
me was like the appeal. So that's why it was
(23:55):
like it was cool to be strong and lift like
these enormous weights because it was being like Mile. So
it was like the guys that I wanted to be.
Speaker 3 (24:02):
Like stuff is so I think back, it's funny, that's
why I lifted.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
I didn't live for the cosmetic. I like the way
it looked.
Speaker 3 (24:15):
I really liked the idea of feeling strong because I
was such a late lumer, was always so skinny, you know,
and so little. And I love the idea of delivering,
like delivering punishment when I played basketball, and you know,
probably ruined my jumpsh out a little bit because you
can lift and be strong and still shoot, but you
have to be really vigilant about it.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
And a lot of my shooting stuff was mental. But
what I love just the.
Speaker 3 (24:43):
Feeling of being, you know, of contact not bothering you,
and the feeling of you know, we could hand check
back then, and like you put your hand on somebody
and if you're really strong, you can make it feel
like a fucking vice script on somebody's hip. And you
know what no one really says about hand checking. It's
like I can steer you, I can control you, whereas
(25:05):
if I can't touch you, I can't cantry, I can't
steer you. And it was it was a very valuable
part of how I played. And so I'm with you.
I get that, the masculinity and the feeling of raw strength.
So you okay, so you transition to powerlifting. How long
did it take to when you were really at the
(25:26):
top and compete?
Speaker 4 (25:30):
Not too long, I mean within I think like six months,
I was one of the top ranked guys in the
country in powerlating.
Speaker 3 (25:38):
So this is deadlift or squat, pan and jerk. What
do you lift when you're doing powerlift?
Speaker 4 (25:44):
Yeah, so parloting is is bench, preuss, squat and deadlift.
You get three attempts at each lift. Usually if you
do it correctly, your third attempt is going to be
your highest and they add up the total of all
those lifts and that's that's what that's how you actually
win is you take the three lifts and you get
the kinlyft total. So it's just it's ultimate. Just kind
(26:04):
of like growing up.
Speaker 3 (26:07):
So let me let me tell you what this is like,
which was like you're gonna think this, this is a
weird thing. Okay, this is My daughter is a show jumper. Okay,
now she's going to college and she has to learn
a different discipline called equitation, but she's a show jumper.
And what show jumping is is a lot like what
you're describing. Because you have hunter jumper, you.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
Have equitation, yoursage is something totally different. You have all these.
Speaker 3 (26:33):
Things where they're they're grading and scoring things, and show
jumping is just go as fast as you can and
don't hit any rails.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
Right, that's basically is there an art to it?
Speaker 3 (26:42):
Like, yes, there absolutely is, but it's go as fast
as you can and don't hit any rails. And what
you're saying is that's what powerlifting is, like it takes
all the judgments, like just lift in three different disciplines.
Just lift as much weight as you can.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
Yeah, yeah, okay, okay. Like how much of a subculture.
Speaker 3 (27:04):
How how popular it is powerlifting in comparison, because I
we don't hear anything about powerlifting we do about bodybuilding. Yeah,
how popular is powerlifting internationally?
Speaker 4 (27:17):
It's actually very big international. So powerlifting has I'm not
sure if it's still the same, but they have a
So they have where you have your local competitions, do
you have your state level competitions, and you have your
national do you have your international international? I think that
they take the best lifters from every single country and
they all go compete and they basically just who has
(27:37):
the biggest total. Now that parloating used to be in
the Olympics. It used to be actually an Olympic Now
it's in the Olympic Games, but it used to be
in the Olympics. I believe there was some drug testing
controversy because the Olympics are very strict, so guys are
getting caught. They were getting popped for using and then
they ended up banning it. But now, as far as
(27:59):
like culture, you not, the State's bodybuilding is obviously bigger.
It's just more of a freak show. And I think
the entertainment value of watching a bodybuilding competition is much easier.
It's only going to be like an hour or two
powerlifting that like some of those meats, man, those things
can be like five or six hours long, and it
never really put like the production value into it. So
(28:19):
you have to be really into the sport to actually
like watch and consume the content. But every time the
massive lift happens, it goes everywhere. It goes viral and
Bleacher Report, ESPN, all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
No question.
Speaker 3 (28:30):
Okay, so what are you eating? What is a diet
of a powerlifter.
Speaker 4 (28:35):
Like, it's called a seafood diet. So everything you see
you eat, you do have to gain weight. So like aig,
a bigger guy has more leverage, he's gonna lift more weight.
So it's encouraging for you to especially if you're at
the bottom en of your weight class to just eat
more to get to the top end of it. So
it's not as strict and as rigid as like a
(28:57):
bodybuilding diet. That's that's wildly different, but piloting diet essentially,
you're trying to get plenty of protein, lots of carbohydrates,
lots of lots of carbs, and a little bit more
fat than what you would traditionally get on a bodybuilding diet,
and you get a lot of a lot more cheap mills.
Like I would say, like a piloting diet. When done correctly,
you probably eat like two to three cheat meals per week,
so you get you're always in a chloric star. Plus
(29:18):
you're not really suffering, so you feel very good going
into competition.
Speaker 2 (29:23):
The common perception is eating whatever you want.
Speaker 3 (29:26):
You just eat a ton of food and a lot
of protein, and you're taking all those drugs anyway, so
all that fat burns off and you have these games.
What's the reality to what's a bodybuilding diet?
Speaker 4 (29:39):
Yeah, bots of bodybuilding. This is the common misconception of bodybuilding.
Bodybuilding is ninety percent genetics. Ninety percent genetics. You can
give a Joe Smoe off the street, every single stereo
under the sun and pump them to the gills. But
he probably won't even win a local competition because it's ninety.
It's kind of like, there's a reason why Lebron James
(30:00):
is Lebron James. He's six ' nine two point fifty
at his best ran I think like a four to
four forty and has like a forty forty plus introvertical
whatever he ask like you, that's just what his makeup is.
Same thing with guys in body building, and the top
guys that are always going to compete at a high
level are it's genetics. But then after that, yeah, the
(30:21):
drugs are a big part of it because you have
to take that in order to enhance what you already have.
That's all. That's all it's going to do. But the
diet is is really like the thing that separates people.
When I nailed down the diet when I was in
my early twenties, that felt like getting on like anabolics,
like that was the hugest thing.
Speaker 3 (30:39):
Okay, so you so you wake up in the morning,
wake up in the morning, give me give me this
as your your bodybuilding yep.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
Okay, wake up in the morning.
Speaker 4 (30:48):
What time, yep, So wake up in the morning, eight
egg whites, two whole eggs, two slices of ezekiel bread,
about a cup of oat meal, and maybe like a
little bit of like blueberry sprinkling on top of that.
That would be the breakfast. You're coming back about two
to four hours later, usually about four hours later, and
(31:09):
you're having eight ounces eight to ten ounces of chicken
breast with like a sweet potato and then like a
side of vegetables. Then another repeat that for meal three
after you get done on training, protein shake about fifty
grands of protein, and then for the last meal of
the day is either going to be like salmon or
steak with a rice and a vegetable. So all in all,
(31:32):
it's that that's pretty much like what the meals. That's
what my diet looked like getting ready for a competition.
And I'll have one day per week where those meals
would the protein sources would stay the same, but the
carbohydrates would double, so the carbs would be called a
refeed day, carbs would go like twice as much. And yeah,
you have to do that for about twelve twenty weeks.
Speaker 1 (31:53):
At a time.
Speaker 2 (31:53):
Why do you live up in the carbons one day with.
Speaker 4 (31:56):
Yeah, the science behind the theory really about to the
reef your day is that it helps to stimulate more
fat burning hormones and also it's gonna help to replenish
glycogen store. So that's like where the store carbohydrates are
withinside of the muscles, so that that's so like when
you get lean, you don't have that stringy look your
(32:16):
your muscles are pumped, they're around, they're full, they're vascular.
You want to kind of when you're dieting. You think
of it like landing in an airplane. If you come
down too fast, it's gonna crash. You're gonna look like
shit on stage. But if you come down nice and
slow and you're you're you're really you know, moderating everything,
you're gonna you're gonna look even bigger than you were
(32:36):
twenty thirty or forty pounds ago. That's how you die
it correctly. You should look bigger as you come down.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
Wow. That sounds crazy expensive, by the way.
Speaker 4 (32:49):
It's actually not. You know, when you buy in bulk
and you buy boring food like chicken, steak, rice, salmon,
it's actually really relatively inexpensive. I remember in college I
was able to, you know, because that's when I turned pro.
I was eating. My weekly budget for groceries was anywhere
between eighty and one hundred and twenty bucks. Really really cheap.
(33:09):
So for especially for consuming that much food, It's just
like when you get into the middle of the store
in a grocery store. That's where stuff gets expensive because
you're not getting a whole lot of value out of
the servings that they're actually giving you. When you're buying
like five pounds of chicken breasts bro that was like
I remember it was like eight bucks, nine bucks when
I was in college for five pounds it's a lot
(33:31):
of food, you know. And then a bag of rice.
What is a bag of rice? Bag of rice is
like three four five bucks for like a huge bag
of rice that could last you for two three weeks.
Really cheap.
Speaker 2 (33:41):
Why'd you stop? Power level?
Speaker 4 (33:43):
Ah? Yeah, no money in it, you know. Like uh,
I was so I remember Raw Nationals, which is the
national level pilatin competition. I believe it was twenty seventeen.
I was watching it. There was a guy there that's
a lot at one thousand pounds and went everywhere. It
was on all across social media. Couldn't get it off
(34:06):
my feed. Multiple people took the image of him doing
that and use it to sell you know, equipment, different gear, apparel,
whatever it was. And the amount of money that that
guy got from that was zero dollars. Because the Federation
makes you sign over the rights to any type of
media that is taken while you're in competition, and they
(34:28):
own it, so they could sell stuff for your likeness
or whatever cool things that you do while you're like
whatever awesome feats of strength you do on stage, they
could sell that, but you don't get any return on it.
So when I saw that, I was just like, yeah,
this is kind of like. I love the sport. I
love the the the challenge of it. I love competing,
(34:49):
but if I'm going to dedicate my body and my
energy and my mind for that much like time to something,
it's got to be an ROI positive activity. So happy
that I did it, like I love it. I learned
so much from it that's helped me in many different ways.
But it just didn't make sense economically like to do
something like that because essentially you're a pro athlete, but
(35:11):
you're not getting paid like.
Speaker 3 (35:12):
One's that is therein lies the rub.
Speaker 2 (35:17):
There definitely lies the rub. Okay.
Speaker 3 (35:22):
So so how'd you decide to make money?
Speaker 4 (35:29):
Yeah? So during this time period, I had actually gotten
to what I'm doing now in my early twenties when
I started coaching people, and that for me was a
really fulfilling journey because it was essentially me being able
to do the same thing for others of which I've
done for myself through the process. Because yeah, while be it,
(35:51):
a lot of the stuff that goes on with a
transformation is physical, like that's what people see on the outside,
but the most reroording thing is actually what happens mentally,
and I you know, a lot of people in the
industry as a whole tends to miss that. It's really
just focused on the the visual aspect of things, which
(36:13):
I think is it can be quite shallow. But I
marry the two, so I focus on the mindset and
the physical side of things. So, uh, that's why I
started doing in my early twenties. It really took off
after I turned pro that I moved out to Los
Angeles and that's where things really really shot off and
(36:33):
then got into what I'm doing now with with with
T three. So yeah, that's how I Also, I make
my living. I make I'm very fortunate make a really
good living doing so, and it's very very fulfilling and
very rewarding for me.
Speaker 3 (36:47):
Well, so what you do this different than other people
is it's a it's a it's the term I think
it's when it's not just about working out right, it's
like a holistic approach. Right, there's a mental aspect of it,
which with reading as well as your diet as well
(37:09):
as your workouts. How did you how'd you become aware
that the mental aspect was such a huge element to.
Speaker 4 (37:18):
It, because that was the thing that enabled me to
reach my highest potential when I was a young man
was not being mentally aligned in harmony with the things
that I wanted in life. And the reason why I
wasn't because there was a lot of shortcomings and a
lot of inadequacies which I had within myself. So in
order to actually get and acquire those things I wanted
(37:39):
all of life, first I had to work on those
inadequacies in my shortcomings and get in harmony with those things.
And then it's just a it's not if if you're
going to get it, it's just when it pulls it
towards you, you're more attractive, like it attracts towards you.
So that's where I did that, because ultimately I got
into the sport of bodybuilding because I was depressed U
(38:00):
because I didn't feel so great about myself. So I
use it as a tool to help build myself back up.
And then from there it was okay, what, like, what
was the reason why I did not get to the
next level of basketball? Because I wanted to be a
professional basketball player, Like that was my dream growing up
as a kid. And yeah, you can probably say, like,
you know, I'm not six six or whatever and all
this kind of stuff, But to me that that's just that,
(38:21):
that's kind of like it's kicking the blame off. And
I don't think you. I don't think winners do that.
I don't think you get very far doing that. What
I had come to found it was a shortcoming of
my mentality. It was a shortcoming in me not assessing
my weaknesses and working on them, and it was it
was a shortcoming in my work ethic. So those are
things that I took now today and I'm like, Okay,
never again will I ever be in that position where
if I have an opportunity to maximize on my potential
(38:44):
on something, then I'm going to fall short of that.
Uh So, yeah, that's kind of like how I how
I got to that. That whole thing is you know,
a lot. You know, people want things out of life,
whether it be more money, more muscles, better relationship, more
mental and cognitive strength, whatever it may be. And first
we must look inside to see, okay, like what like
(39:08):
where are my shortcomings? Like what are the things I
need to work on actually get these things? And am
I in harmony with those things? So if you're in
harmony with it, it's gonna come to you.
Speaker 3 (39:20):
What of the challenges of kind of this era obviously, like, look,
there's some really good challenges, right COVID I think provided a.
Speaker 2 (39:30):
Lot more where.
Speaker 3 (39:32):
You know, doing online coaching became very very normal and
people started to work out more at home. On the
other hand, as you pointed out, like people's mentalities have
changed and there's you know, some approaches don't work anymore.
What's what are the inherent challenges of doing this in
two thousands doing what you do in twenty twenty four.
Speaker 4 (39:56):
That's a good question. There's no challenges I could really
think of off the bat, uh that I could really
come to because I I think that the way at
least that question is coming across to me is like
what limitations are there? And I don't really see Yeah yeah,
(40:16):
I don't really like.
Speaker 3 (40:18):
Like all of our jobs and again maybe all of
our jobs have changed in the last couple of years, right,
some for the better, some for the worse.
Speaker 2 (40:28):
You know, Like again, were you like you and I were.
Speaker 3 (40:31):
Doing this on Zoom? Who did this stuff on Zoom
before COVID? Right, I'm sure it existed, nobody knew and
who definitely wasn't a fall back up. I'm just wondering
what's changed in this coaching industry for better or for
worse in the past couple of years.
Speaker 4 (40:50):
Ah okay, so like the industry as.
Speaker 2 (40:52):
A whole, uh or for you, for you and your business?
Speaker 4 (40:57):
Yeah yeah, so for me. So for me, I think
the business evolved because I evolved when I was in
Los Angeles and I was working with people like one
on one, like a very few, select elite group of people.
The thing that I fund that actually made them successful
when it came to fitness was these interactions. It wasn't
actually the x's and o's of the training because like
(41:21):
if if if so, for instance, if somebody's mental shit
is not altogether, if their life is in scrambles to
like like like their emotional life, their relationship life and
everything like that, and they don't have a really good
self image, that's a lot of shit out just throughout you.
But like, let's just say like all those things exist, right,
(41:41):
There's no fucking way they're going to stick to a
diet and a training program. Even if a trainer comes
and pulls their ass out of bed, force them to
go do the gym, forces them do the reps, They're
gonna fucking fail. So the thing that has to be
fixed is their fucking life entirely. So the thing that
I found was like, okay, cool, we got to build
up your self image first. Your self image is how
you see yourself. Do you love yourself? Do you like yourself?
Because if you really do, and that's fucking true, you're
(42:03):
not lying yourself about it. You're gonna treat yourself like
somebody that that you love. So like, for ins is, Doug,
would you do something amazing for your daughters? Like would
you give them the world? Would you make sure that
they have a safe would you make sure? Absolutely? Because
why you love them? Right? So, when somebody is out
of shape, treating their body like shit, not going to
(42:24):
the gym, not working out, that is a sign of
a lack of self love. You don't love yourself. I
don't care abou don't give a fuck how many rolex
did you put on your fucking wrist. I don't care
about what the car you're driving your driveway doesn't mean
shit like it's it's it's a compensation. So we have
to actually go down to the root calls of why
is there a lack of self love? We have to
fix that. We have to have those tough conversations with
ourself and once that gets fixed, then it's a lot
(42:46):
easier to give yourself the best of things in life.
So when I was doing, like, you know, like all
those transformations and change people's lives to the one on
one person, I was like, yeah, like giving you all
the shit that die all that time, Yeah, that matters,
but it's not the most important thing. The most important
think it's fixing this up here. Once that gets fixed,
it's like light speed to your goals because that internal
friction isn't there anymore. You stop getting in your own
(43:09):
fucking way, You stop making excuses because you're like, I
actually want to give myself a great fucking body, because
I deserve this shit. I actually want to give myself
the easy fucking life. That's amazing, because I deserve this shit.
A lot of our problems we fucking cause them. We
cause them. It's not the world. So we have to
fix ourselves. We want our problems to go away. It's
as opposed to blaming everybody else.
Speaker 1 (43:31):
I want to.
Speaker 3 (43:32):
I want to do a part two upcoming, but I
got to cut it right now at part one. If
somebody wants to get a hold of you, if somebody
wants to begin the process of fixing their shit, how
they do it?
Speaker 4 (43:44):
Yeah, the easiest way to get in contact with me
is on Instagram coach JC White, or they can go
to T three body training dot com. But the easiest
ways is to hit me there in box me. We'll
have a conversation back and forth, and then we'll hop
on a call and we'll see if I can even help.
You know, I like to, you know, we like to
go through a process with anybody who's interested to make
sure that we actually can help them and they're a
(44:04):
good fit. And if they are, then we'll get rock
and roller.
Speaker 2 (44:08):
Okay, here's what I want.
Speaker 3 (44:09):
Here's your Homer project for the next time, because you
always give me a homework, right, homer project is okay?
Speaker 2 (44:14):
For a young athlete, hey, how can you.
Speaker 3 (44:21):
How can you start the process of like you said,
it's like self love, but also understanding how to kind
of change your guet change your body at a younger age.
How do you how do we do that? What would
if you were to advise you're a coach, which you are,
but like a basketball coach or a football coach to
(44:42):
advise a young athlete, how do you get through to them?
And how do you start to change what they eat
and how they mentally see themselves. That's your Homer project
and then we'll get to that next time.
Speaker 2 (44:52):
Is that cool?
Speaker 4 (44:53):
Yeah? For sure. So essentially, let's just do a case study.
So we got a fifteen year old kid, he plays
football or basketball and he is not great. How do
we get him to start to get on the diet
and take that more seriously so that he can get
to the next level?
Speaker 1 (45:07):
Correct? Cool?
Speaker 2 (45:08):
All right?
Speaker 4 (45:08):
Cool? Yeah? I got the answers, But I'll say it
for next time.
Speaker 1 (45:11):
I know you do. All right, we'll talk shit right.
Speaker 4 (45:13):
All sounds good, brother?
Speaker 1 (45:15):
Yeah? All right, that's Part one of J C. White.
Speaker 3 (45:21):
What we're going to do is we'll work in Part
two upcoming, which is more kind of putting together a plan,
and especially with spring and summer upon us, it's a
pretty good way to have just kind of a rough plan.
And I think most people believe they know, you know,
how to change their body and how to change their mentality,
(45:42):
but actually doing it, executing it, and how to think
through it.
Speaker 1 (45:45):
We'll get to that in Part two with JC White.
Speaker 3 (45:47):
In the meantime, I'm Doug Gottlieb, and make sure you
download the Doug Gottlieb Show Daily podcast. It's a radio
show and a one hour podcast. Just I've been Doug Gottlieb.
We ever got this one, you can probably get it
as well. Mentime, thanks to much the JC Dan Panaman
Part two is coming up.
Speaker 1 (46:03):
I'm Doug Gottlieve. This is all ball
Speaker 3 (46:22):
H
Host
Doug Gottlieb
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