Dan Grunfeld on NBA Upbringing, Stanford Hoops Golden Days, Overseas Pro Life

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
Hey, welcome in. I'm Doug Goliban. This is All Ball,
where we have a great conversation with Dan Grunfeld, who,
of course his dad Ernie, part of the Bernie and
Ernie Show, playing the NBA g M in the NBA
and was the GM of the Bucks the last time
they went to the Eastern Conference finals. Daniel joined us momentarily,
and I think you'll love the conversation about his life,
his career, his upbringing, and his new book that he

(00:29):
wrote about his family and their dramatic journey to uh
to success in America. Before you get to that, let
me just kind of give you my quick thoughts on
the NBA Finals. I want to tell you the best
team one, but they didn't the best healthiest team that
was standing one. But that is sports, right, That is sports.

(00:51):
That's how sports works. Whoever is healthiest, who's ever eligible.
At the end of the day, they win, they get
the spoils, they get to talk shit. That's the way
it goes. And that was the Bucks. They were dead
to rights beating against the Nets. Dad, they'd be get
me by forty in Game two, and then Kyrie sprains
his ankle. Of course, uh, James Harden was already hurt,

(01:12):
and they lose because Kevin Durant has his foot over
the line at the end of regulation in UH in
Game seven. But when their full strength, there's no question
the Nets appeared to have been better in a good
matchup for the Nets against the Milwaukee Bucks. I don't
think they'd beat the Clippers. I don't think they beat
the Lakers, but I don't think it matters because they

(01:32):
beat the teams they had to beat, and they won
the championship, and Janice made seventeen and nineteen free throws.
It doesn't make Janice jest free throw fixed complete. It
doesn't mean the Bucks are the best team historically in
the NBA. They're going on a run. It just means
they won the tournament and they get the trophy. That's
what it means. Crazy though, right Mike Bounoser was about

(01:52):
to be fired. Now all of a sudden their NBA
champions It takes the National Guard to get him out
of there. Um. The other part is, you know, I've
I've long told people that the new rules. You know,
when I say new, I mean last fifteen twenty years
of existence in the NBA, they actually helped non shooters
that can huge bodies, played downhill more so than even

(02:14):
help shooters Lebron James before he was more of a
shooting guy. And now what you're doing, we'll do with Janice.
I guess that that even points out even more what's
lacking in Ben Simmons game. But these guys getting downhill,
playing with angles, getting by you, using their body to
fend you off, and attacking the defense, that's the new basketball. Alright,

(02:35):
without further ado, let's get to our interview. Here's Dan Grunfeldt,
Stanford alum, who joined me to talk about his journey
through basketball. All right, so let's let's do this. Let's
let's start with growing up. Like so, uh, my basketball background. Obviously,
my dad was stop your dad as a player, um,

(02:57):
but huge player that high school coached in college coach
and I was born in wisconsintly's the head coach. He
did Milwaukee, then he moved along to to Orange County
when he was assistant Long Beach State. When when you
were born, where were you born? Exactly in northern New Jersey,
so Livingston, New Jersey. Okay, Um, so where was your dad?

(03:18):
What was your dad doing when you were born? My
dad was a player for the Knicks, and actually, so
my birth was scheduled around two of his road trips
because my parents wanted my dad to be there for
my birth but also for my brist right, which happens
eight days later. And so the Knick schedule is that
there were two road trips. And so the first road
trip was in Texas and that's the trip where Bernard

(03:39):
King had fifty points back to back nights um in Dallason,
San Antonio. So he had those legendary games. And then
my dad came home and for my birth, and yeah,
he was a player for the Knicks. Um, So what's
your first memory obviously like your did you remember any
of the Knicks stuff? And your dad is a player's
stuff when you're a kid, or is it more what
people have told you? More people have told me from

(03:59):
his playing career, because he retired when I was two,
so it was still a little a little young for me.
My sisters three years older, she's five and she was five,
so she remembers, but I don't remember him as a player.
But obviously he was then executive and general manager for
many years. So my whole childhood was around the Knick.
So really my first memories are in Madison Square Garden.
But he just wasn't playing anymore, I tell you. So.

(04:21):
My dad had a guy named Kurt Kashi who wore
forty four WM and there's other reasons I wore forty four,
but that was like that he was I thought he
was the coolest guy, and I became guy. I thought
the number was cool. Who was your first like nick
that you fell in love with when you're a kid.
John Stars, you know, and and there were a lot

(04:41):
of players who I love, but really John like because
I was a shooting guard growing up and he was
a shooting guarden. He just played the game with so
much passionate heart, and I was in such a priviliged position.
I knew him, you know. So I would t M
at practice and we would talk and like, man, he
would just he would say Madison Square Guarden on fire.
Like every other team the league hated him, right because
he was you know, he would talk smack and he

(05:02):
was like a little bit brash. But man, I just
love John Starrs. He's he obviously in Oklahoma state alum
as well. Kind of interesting. Um well, I always find
it fascinating. I was having a have a buddy named
Brian moon Noddy. He's joining me on the parties played
with me at Oklahoma State. He played ten years Italy
and um he's a he's a high school coach now

(05:23):
in Oklahoma. And we were trying to describe to people,
like why our group because made the final four. I
wasn't in that group two thousand and four, they made
the final four. I was in that group. We made
the Elite eight, but we never won the league. And
yet our group he is way more popular I think
now than kind of any other group outside maybe a

(05:44):
big country, right, And I was trying to express the
people like just sometimes there's unique groups that come together
that fans, fans get with, I feel like, and part
of it is they did go to the NBA finals.
I feel like that era of the Knicks is like that, right,
where they didn't actually win the championship. They never really
want anything. But there's there's something about John Starks, There's

(06:06):
something about um Anthony the late Anthony Mason, Right, there's
something about those guys that Knicks fans gravitated towards more
than just the fact that they actually got to the
NBA files. The spirit that they played the game with
just resonated. Man in New York is blue collar, you know, working,
you know, hard work, toughness, and that's how they played,

(06:27):
you know, and that kind of great and determination. Like
people just love those teams and they were good and
they did have success, but it was more than that.
It was the heart and soul of the city. You know.
It's like for me growing up, like having kind of
backstage access to that was amazing. But all my friends
in North New Jersey, everyone just loved the Knicks man
because it was just like you could get behind that,
you know what I mean, Yeah, how did you How

(06:50):
did you deal with that? Like, because as much as
they got behind things when things are not that good. Um,
Knicks fans, especially kids like kids because kids echo the
sentiments of their parents and what their parents say, you know,
in their own homes. But a lot of times kids
don't have the filters that parents have right when they're
out kind of in public. How did you deal with that? Yeah,

(07:13):
I mean you kind of have to learn early that
that comes with the territory. But it's not pleasant and
it's not easy. Like I would always have kids at
school be like Nick suck or you know, like this
and that, and like, yeah, dude, like it's not fun.
And I think it makes like and I have a
lot of other friends who kind of grew around the NBA.
It makes families kind of insular, you know, because you
rely on each other and you become very close. And
so my my parents were really great with me and

(07:35):
just always told me, like, you know, you're gonna have
a lot of friends and people who care about you
for who you are, and like those are the people
that you want to like bring in closer and trust.
And there's gonna be a lot of people who might
not know you as well and who might say things,
but always trying to make me understand that like it
wasn't it wasn't personal, it wasn't about me. It was
just kind of how people are. But yeah, man, it's
it's tough. Like there's a lot of perks that come
with with having like a famous dad or access to

(07:56):
really cool things. But yeah, there's there's a lot that
comes with and let alone, like the media, you know,
you'd you'd wake up in the morning with you know,
your dad's you know, face on the cover of the paper,
you know, being criticized and things like that when they're
not winning, and then of course when they're winning, it's
it's a different story, right, But yeah, those things are
tough to do with, particularly for a young kid. How
old were you and when he took the Bucks job?

(08:17):
So I was fifteen. So uh. He he was let
go in New York my freshman year in high school
and they actually went to the finals. So he had
traded for Literal Spreewell and Marcus Canby and it didn't
quite work out at first he was let go, and
then it worked out in an amazing fashion. He was
already gone, right, but he then got hired by the Bucks.
And so I moved from New Jersey to Milwaukee my

(08:37):
sophomore year, which seems really random, but my mom is
from Milwaukee, so I would visit there every summer, and
my my mom and dad meant when my dad was
playing for the Bucks, right, so like my family had
this history of Milwaukee. So it wasn't like as random
as you would think, but still tough to like at
that age when you're in high school, trying to come
into your own to move like it was a tough thing. Okay,
So let's let's go back for for a second, because, yeah,

(09:00):
what what was your dad like during those times? Like,
it's I think the hardest thing. There's a lot of
hard things about parenting, which you're you're gonna learn. Um,
I'm a little bit older. Um, but it's how you
process work, stress and home life, right, has gotta be
you know, especially a very public job. And then the

(09:20):
NIXT go to the finals and he got fired. Like
what was what was your recollection of what he was
like during those times? Yeah, you know, listen, my dad
is an amazing person, but he's an amazing father, right,
So his first priority has always been his family, and
he always tried to like insulate us from all the
pressures of his job. And so he also and I
said it before, like he has very big shoulders literally

(09:43):
and figured to be like he's a massive guy. But
he knows that in his position, you have to take
a lot of that, right, So he he tried to
really bear the brunt of all all the kind of
stress and disappointment. But that's not to say that there
wasn't a lot of stress and disappointment. I mean, and
we'll probably get into this more later, but like my
dad grew up as an imigrant New York City watching
the Knicks and the Nosebley. It's not even been being

(10:03):
able to speak English, right, So then not only did
he play for the Knicks, but he ran the whole team.
So that that was you know, it was a very
hard thing for for him, I know, and for our family,
but it's it's also the nature of the business. And
you know, luckily he he got an opportunity right away
with an awesome team in Milwaukee, and they went to
Game seven in the Eastern Conference Finals. So his career
just really took off after and everything happens for a reason,

(10:24):
so you know, it was a tough time, man, but
he tried to insulate us as much as could. Okay,
so you get to Wisconsin, your guy from Jersey, your
jew from Jersey with it for the Jersey accent, all right,
what was bol your last three years of high schooling? Amazing? Honestly, man, Like,
Like I was so lucky to go to I went
to the top public high school in Milwaukee, Nicola High School,

(10:45):
which actually a basketball powerhouse. Now, uh, they're just saying
Jayalen Johnson to Duke and uh, you know, so it's
a it's a great school, basketball school, and it was
a strong school then, uh, amazing place to kind of,
you know, grow as a basketball player and as a student.
And so it was took an adjustment right when you moved.
You have to make new friends and figure it out.
But you know, I when I when we got to Milwaukee,

(11:06):
I was like five ten forty five pounds. I had
played freshman basketball in New Jersey. So like, you know,
I thought, I you know, I had good skills, and
I knew my dad was really big, my mom was big,
and the doctrines kind of said, like, this kid is
gonna be pretty big. So I knew I kind of
had a gross spurred any but I just didn't know
what I would become as a basketball player, right. So,
I mean I started varsity as a sophomore, but you know,
I was like seven points a game. I was six

(11:27):
six five, But then I'm six five, and then I'm
six six two oh five, and you know, by my
senior year, I'm a top plundered player. And you know,
Stanford was kind of knocking on the door. And so
my kind of ascension happened quickly. But I don't think
I'm not sure it could have happened if I didn't
go to Milwaukee. Honestly, do you do you what were
kids like to you? And I asked you this because

(11:48):
I think one of the hard things, UM, I stayed
back because I had that I had a gross spur. Obviously,
people like me had a gross for six. I was
like five ft five one when I finished eighth grade
the first time that. I was like five ten when
I ended high school. Right, So during that year and
three months of Master Rosberg, um, but there was always

(12:09):
a I thought a group. And my high school was
really it was very good for public high school as well. Coached,
we have a lot of success, um. But I always
felt like there was a group of the more popular
kids that weren't as accepting of me because I didn't
grow up there. You know, I grew up even five
miles away, but I didn't even grow up there. For

(12:30):
you grew up in Jersey, you don't have sweat equity
with these kids. Was did you did you ever feel
like there was any animosity towards you kind of parachuting
in and the becoming a basketball star. Honestly, man, not
not at all. And I think it speaks to the
community that I moved to. Like, people in the Midwest
are just like very accepting, nice people, and like I
really found that it accepted me with such open armsticly. Man,

(12:53):
I never had I never felt a lot of that,
you know, pushed back. Maybe it was happening. I was
just oblivious to it, but like, no, it was. It
was it was all love. Like people embrace me. They
tried to help me feel comfortable. And like basketball, as
you know, like it's the universal language, it's the vehicle.
Like I just started playing hoops and making friends that way,
and you know that that that really kind of just
helped me kind of assimilate. And yeah, the community was

(13:16):
like so accepting. So I have nothing but fond memories
about my time in Milwaukee. Where were you? So we
were in Fox Point, So I went to Nicola High School,
but my mom went to wife Fish Bay High School.
So you know the area well, like you know that's
right outside the city of Milwaukee. Yeah, it's pretty pretty awesome.
Who is your favorite Buck during those years? Man, those

(13:36):
years were so awesome that the answer is easy. Okay,
it's Ray Allen Um, But but I have to think
because they're so just of that team right, because you
have the big dog and you had Sam Cassell and
I love Tim Thomas, but dude, like Ray Allen. You know,
this is when Ray is years old, like just an
absolute superstar in the making, Like not only could shoot

(13:57):
the ball, which everyone knows, but he was so explosive,
crazy athlete crazy. We we played against him when he
was at Yukon. We played against him, and a couple
of things. I remember so um he had the biggest
calves I had ever seen, like like normal sized legs,
maybe the skinny legs. And then he's like, if you
could carve out a grante with somebody's calves are supposed

(14:18):
to look like I remember that. And then he drove
to the middle and what we were doing was and
we did it against Villanova. Didn't work either. Where I
was guarding, like Doron Shepherd was like a footoller than me,
and every time Ray would put the ball in the ground,
I was gonna go and almost like double the ball.
And so he comes off a crewl like a pin
down on the weak side. I go in kind of

(14:39):
almost a help and he goes up like double almost
like triple clutches and then shoots spall like people forget
what a freak athlete he was because their snapshot of
Raylan is well Miami Heat Ray Allen or Boston Celtics Reyon,
where he had made himself into one of the league's
best shooters. They forget that that's like Ray Allen two

(14:59):
point one point though he did a little bit everything,
everything slashing in transition, I mean, dunking the ball like
he was such a monster, and culturally like he got
game had just come out, you know, just a few
years before, and so I was like, man like, for
all those reasons, I just love Ray. And then because
my dad's a GM of the team, like I'm working
out at the practice facility, I get to know him,

(15:21):
and as great of a basketball player as he is,
he's a better guy, the nicest guy in the world,
such a role model for me. Um and so like
I just looked at and again like someone who played
that that shooting guard position. Right. So in New York
it was like John Starts and then all in Houston,
and then it was Ray in Milwaukee. Learned so much
from watching him and all those other guys. And you know,
they again like they lost Game seven, two thousand one

(15:42):
in the Eastern Conference Finals afhilly right, but they had
a chance. I mean they were knocking on the door.
So like those were those were awesome years. Fox Sports
Radio has the best sports talk lineup in the nation.
Catch all of our shows at Fox sports Radio dot
com and within the I Heart Radio app search f
s R to listen live. Um, okay, so why did

(16:02):
you choose stand? So I wanted to go to Stanford
since I was in seventh grade. So my sisters older
than me, and my grandmother lives in the Bay Area,
so when we were visiting her, we visited Stanford's campus
for my sister to take a tour. And Stanford was
like number four in the country at the time, great
academics and I was a good student, and I said, man,
and it was close to my grandma, who I'm I'm like,
you know, talked to every day. It's like this is

(16:23):
where I want to play. But as you said, I'm
a you know, I'm a slow Jewish kid from the suburbs,
Like you know, odds aren't amazing for me. But du'dre
just kept kind of grinding, putting my head down, working,
and um really kept my eyes set on that. And
even like as I started getting recruited, like my AU
coaches and all that. They told people like he wants
to go to Stanford. You know, so the Ivy's are
recruiting me and other good kind of academic schools, but

(16:43):
it was always about Stanford. And you know, you have
to you have to be good in some ways, but
you also have to be lucky. And I had a
little bit of both those things where like I played well,
but I also played well at the right times. And
you know, they Stanford went to the final four and
so and they were like number one in two thousand one,
right when I was getting a cruded, so they were
like a top, top program and like so it wasn't
like a shoeman for someone like me to go there,

(17:05):
but it just worked out for me, man, and I
couldn't be more and more happy about it was such
an awesome experience. Okay, so you get to Stanford. Who's
there on the team. So Josh Childress is a year
older than me, um and he's he's really are our
best player. But honestly, like we had a lot of
very good but not like great great players who then

(17:25):
would go to the NBA. So guy like Matt Loddock
right now is the coach of Alpreiso. Right, Matt was
we were playing the same position. He was two years
older than me, so it kind of took me under
his wing a little bit. Uh. You know. Julius Barnes
was a very good all Pac ten player who had
you know, nice career in Europe. So there were guys
sort of like really really solid. But Mike Montgomery was
the coach and he built a system, man that was

(17:47):
so efficient. He recruited tough, skilled, smart people played together
and like we were first or second in the Pac
ten at that time for for eight years in a row.
Like it was just a powerhouse. And so like my
my freshman year we were a four seed and my
sophomore year we we started the season twenty six and
oh and we're a one seed. Like it was. It
was really a roller coaster, man. Yeah, that was that

(18:09):
was like the dream here, right, your sophomayer was was
that was the dream here? That was the year. That
was the game. It wasn't Tiger at the game against Arizona,
so Doug that so we were nineteen and o right,
we're playing Arizona. Keep in mind, okay, Arizona starting five,
Mustafa Shakur, Selim Stodomeyer, Hassan Adams, Andrea Guadala, Channing Fry. Okay,
they're all NBA players, one of them the finals M

(18:31):
v P. And then you have Stanford. We have Josh
Children's but all good role players. We beat them in
Tucson when we were three. We were four and they
were three in the country. Now we're too and they're
nineteen and we're we're not. I think. No, there were
twelve and we're nineteen and O right, we we make
a shot at the buzzer, a half court shot to
win the game, to become twenty and oh Tiger's courtside.
And it was my twentieth birthday, so so I'll never

(18:54):
forget like it was my birthday to do it. And
we just had this magical, magical thing going on. What
um I've always heard Stanford is is just different. This
is different in a in a great way, right. And
it was one of my schools I wanted to go
to and money and I told him to. You know,
my brother worked for money for six years. He was
just too honest, alright, because he called me and offer

(19:16):
me a scholarship and he's like, okay, so here's the deal.
We have Brevin Knight. You'll back him up for two
years and then you'll be and you'll play some with him,
and then you'll be the starter for two years. And
I was like, coach, thanks love Stanford, think you were
in a great program. Not really interested. And they signed
artly instead of me because I wanted to start as
a freshman. It was it was really kind of that simple, right,
But every guy I met from Stanford it's like the

(19:39):
guys from Notre Dame. It's like the guy smokes, they
just kind of okage's right. There are kind of guys, um,
but give me the give me like all right, So
when Stanford guys sit around, we tell stories. Here's a
story of what it was really like. Yeah, lots hilarious
about Monty. He is very honest. I think that was
part of his success in a way. But also like
you know that that that candid nature, you know, not

(20:02):
it is not for everyone, but that was kind of
his structure, right, Like you come in, you don't play
at first, you you take your lips, you pay your dues,
then you kind of move up. So it's funny that
you went through that, Uh, Stanford is a unique place, man,
It's just different. Like, ultimately, it's an amazing place. The
values are really right, Like the people treat each other well.
There's a lot of innovation. There's a lot of like
you know, Stanford is a great school, so there's a

(20:23):
lot of like intellect there. But it's not it's not
even about that, dude. It's just about ideas and being
supportive of other people and thinking big. So it's a
really really special place. I after I retired professionally, I
went to business school there, so I got that paste
of it as well. And like so I spent six
years on campus and I just love it. But to
your question, like when the when the fellows are hanging
out and we're talking, it's the same stuff, right, we're

(20:44):
telling stories of old games and old parties and this
and that. But like, you know, the thing that's interesting
about Stanfords that when you're a student athlete in particularly
when the when the football team is awesome, when the
basketball team is awesome, like you think you'd be like
the toast of the town and the biggest thing on campus,
but like there's so much going on there of people
have done so many cool things that you're just kind
of a face in the crowd, which on one handed,
it's different, different, but it's also cool because you're just

(21:06):
like part of part of the deal. Yeah, it's must
be interesting they having gone back to business school there. How,
when you were there, Maples was arguably the best atmosphere
in the league, and now it's one of the worst. Right,
it's it's one of the worst. Um. Some of that
is they haven't been successful over the last decade, But

(21:27):
some of that is that all of that innovation, all
that other stuff has gotten even bigger in Silicon Valley, right,
and even bigger at the school, whereas sports matter less
and less, even when football has gotten really good and
and and basketball used to it used to be the
happening place, used to be the kind of crown jewel
of Stanford with Stanford basketball, it was crazy, man like Maples.

(21:51):
And you know, we used to have this floor that bounced,
which actually never placed after my sophomore year because we
had several stress fractors in people's feet. But like they
were playing that, I didn't know that. My sophomore year
we had three guys with stress fraction their feet, So
they said maybe that contributed to it, so they replaced it.
But like that was our calling card, Like our fans
are jumping the floors, bouncing the ceilings, about to pop off,
like it was the hottest ticket in town. Man, I'm

(22:12):
telling you, like and to your point, like it hasn't
been like that, and you know, the program, like I'm
of course very still close with the coaching staff and
in huge supporters of them, like gotten great players, like
we've you know, we've we've had our moments and and
still trying to build up. But yet it had Maples
has not been hopping like it was. And it's a
bit of a bummer because like I take my wife
back and like you're telling her about the glory days,

(22:33):
but we're looking around and like, you know, it's not
exactly how we remembered it. But listen, like I have
faith in the program and the coaching staff, and I
mean in the kids they've recruited. But yet to your point,
like it hasn't quite been you know what what it was. Um,
so you know we're we're hoping to get back. You
get done play right, you don't get drafted, be your

(22:55):
dad's in the league. Whatever. Uh, take me through your
process have decided immediately go overseas. Sure. So you know,
so my junior year, I was first team Mall Pac ten.
I was, you know, one of the top scores in
the conference. I had a really really strong year. Um,
and so there was rumors that I'd be like late
first round pick if I left. So I was thinking
about leaving. And at the end of the year, I

(23:15):
tore my a c l on a fast break in
an actually televised game. By the way, Tiger was courtsided
at that game too. He used to come to one
game year. UM. So I remember I was lying on
the table after I hurt my knee, like my dreams
were just crushed, and literally my head, I thought, I
wonder if Tiger will come back and like, you know,
give me some love. Like I wasn't in my right
mind then. But in my senior year I just wasn't right.

(23:36):
You know. I went from out of the eighteen at
game to twelve and so you know, I I played
Summer League with Indiana, but you know it's very marginal.
So I had an opportunity overseas in Germany. UM took it.
You know, I'd never been to Europe. I didn't know
anything about European basketball, guy, you played over there, Like,
you know, I was just shocked at high the level,
was the way they play, and so I immediately kind
of fell in love with like just the whole I

(23:56):
was doing what I always wanted to do. I just
wasn't doing it in the league, right, But I was
a pro player, I was getting paid, I was ball
and I was just like it was really fun and
of course, like I was wanted to play in the league,
and I got close with the Knicks and training camp
a few years later, but you know, ultimately, like my
career in Europe man was was super fulfilling. Take take
me to Okay, so what year was it when you're
in camp with the Knicks? Okay, who's the coach? It's

(24:19):
it's Mike d'antoni's first year, which actually really was an
advantage for me because everyone was new to the system.
But coach D'Antoni system is really like pass and move,
and that was type of player. I was like, listen,
you weren't gonna give me the ball on the wing
for an ice So at any level, particularly in the NBA, right,
but if you're passing and cutting and and that kind
of stuff that that worked for me. So I really
really had a strong training camp and uh, yeah, it was,

(24:42):
it was. It was an awesome experience. And what is
that like though too, because again I wasn't at your level.
But and I didn't get to training camp, but I
remember I was in summer League with the Lakers, and
uh and I would go to I went to a
couple of that mini camps for them whatever, and every
year would be the same where I go in there

(25:03):
and I was really kind of emotionally mentally timid, like, hey,
just you know, you gotta you know, you're not a Laker,
you know. It's like in my mind, like you're not,
like you gotta you gotta earn the right to be alker.
You gotta kick everybody's ask you gotta be early, you
gotta be perfect. And I put a lot of pressure
on myself. And then the more you do it more
you're like, well, like you do this, you know, And

(25:24):
then you walk in the building and again I don't
know what the nicture like, but I'm guessing it's the same.
It's like now you start to know the secretary's name,
you know all the trainers names, everybody NBA people. Generally,
they treat everybody with an incredible amount of respect, Like
even if you're not have no chance of making a team,
like you want a massage, all that stuff, And by
like day three, you start to like envision yourself, like

(25:46):
what what if I was a Laker? If that would
be kind of cool? Right for you? Dad played in
the league, grew up there, Dad was the GM. I'm
sure there was a long relationship there with dan TONI
what is that like to go through the emotional ups
and downs of Dude, I I could make this team
to them calling you in and going, yeah, you're not

(26:10):
gonna You're not gonna make this team? What was What
do you remember about that? I've tried to stay even
killing and just focus on the work. It's easier said
than done, right, because like if you get if you
start like you know, projecting out of what it could be,
it's hard to deal with that. But like to your point,
like you just have to earn your keep when you're
like a training camp invite or summing again. But so
I always just tried to like work or like prove

(26:31):
my worth. There were moments because like you know, where
I was playing in Europe as a high level in
the NBA, of course, is the highest level of the world.
But the difference you know, between a good overseas player
and you know, maybe like a bench player of the NBA,
you're like, you know, one of the the last bench,
Like it's not that much. So all of a sudden
you start playing, You're like, yeah, I could do this right,
and I would have days. I was like, dude, like
I call my buddies, Like, you won't believe the guys

(26:53):
who were guarding me that I was calling for the
ball because they're like I was bigger than them. But
like these are guys that I grew up watching, and
you kind of really it's like, oh, I could do this,
and it really just takes discipline, man, to like try
not to get too much in your head. I can't
say that I was always successful because I and my
dad played for the next and I grew up, you know,
idolizing this team and I was like, the one thing
is they had fifteen guarantee contracts, so I knew someone

(27:15):
needed to get traded, cut or bought out. Stephan Marbury
was a teammate at the time, and there was rumors
that he was bought out so I was like, too
it if he gets bought out, like maybe I slide in.
When it didn't happen, I was bummed. But the other
part of it was I was also like kind of
and we can get into this later, and I'm sure
we will be talking about my book. Like I had
a very intense basketball career, right and you probably could

(27:36):
relate to this, Doug, Like, if I could go back
and do it over again, I'd want to smile more
and enjoy more and worry less, you know what I mean.
And I think a lot of their flights say that,
but you know, I was. I was rarely content, you know,
And that was one rare moment where I felt like
I gave everything I had. I showed that I could
compete at that level. It didn't happen to work out,
But I was also like, oh, I'm at a really
high level in Europe, and I was I was content

(27:59):
in a way when just which is strange to say
because not only because I just like got cut from
an NBA team, but it also was a feeling that
I rarely had playing because like you know, there's so
much kind of pressure and stress and and meaning behind basketball.
And again it relates, you know, closely to my book,
which I know we'll talk about. But we all have
our stories about basketball why it means so much to us,
you know what I mean? So like that the NIXT

(28:19):
thing was kind of like a culmination for me of
all that favorite country you played Israel, And I'm lucky
because I had really good stops overseas. So I played
a year in Germany, three in Spain, and four in Israel.
Like these are good leagues, really good countries, live in
may great friends, like I had such a cool experience.
But for me, like and you played in Israel, right,
so you know, like I play shame ting. I played

(28:42):
Benet How Sharon used to be macab Ranana. So did
you play Metro West? It was that the gym you
guys played at, so we were we were in hurt
Sally at that point. I have played in Metro West
during the MCCA via games. That's actually where the gold
medal game was. But but yeah, so yeah you played
there was not at the time, but I played for
Ba Sharon and you know that's in the Ranana Hurts
a leader, like two of the nicest cities in Israel,

(29:03):
and that's where I lived my first year, so I
was like, you know and listen, like different leagues have
different qualities. So when I was in Spain for you know,
the middle three years of my career, and we practiced
twice a day, like I could barely get off the couch.
When I got home Israel, it's a little more relaxed.
And at the end of my career, I was cool
with that, you know, practice once a day, enjoy, come home,
hang with my wife, go to the beach, like ful offul,

(29:26):
Like I looked at my wife and I would look
at each other sometimes like this is this is what's up?
Because it was just so awesome. It was so great.
It was so great, Like my thing was UH. I
didn't really get along with Sharon drew Ker. I actually
thought he was a good coach. I played for Sharon
in UH in Jerusalem. He and I also didn't get
along like particularly well. But yeah, I we have nothing

(29:47):
but respect now. But I like this in hindsight, I
loved his practices because all we did was playing his practices.
Like I don't remember I don't remember doing a bunch
of drills. I just just the way in which I
think we and he had he had coached Myles Signon
the year before me and Myles and a man got lost,
so I had a little bit of that negative bias
and then I'll tell you something interesting to happen. So

(30:09):
um I played for him the year after like this,
right season, right after Night eleven. So they called me
right after an eleven and wanted me to come over
and play. And it was dumb negotiations about money, but
it dragged out so long. By the time I registered,
I couldn't play the first four games, so I went
through training. I missed the little training camp. I went
through training with them, and the first four games he

(30:30):
was He was like, goodly, wouldn't you you would be
like a coach and coach with me. We go to meetings.
It was great, like but I actually I knew too
much from be sitting in like I sat it on
coaches peas and we go through the kind of strategy
of scatter reports and I'd watched it because I don't
have anything to do, and you know, so um so

(30:53):
he started calling me professor, professor, go to live no
more than we know. And I was like, bro, you're
the one who asked my opinion. Now when I give
you my opinion, you don't like my opinion really weird anyway.
My point is that I was in Russia the year before,
which our team was unbelievable, and I thought our coach
was really really good, and yet living in Israel. Playing

(31:16):
in Israel was like you go in and you lift
in the morning and get some shots. Ap you come
home and the weather was great and you want to
go to the beach, and you weren't like you were't
gonna kill yourself with practice that night, so you were
as in Russia, like bro we lifted hard for an hour,
We worked out hard for an hour. Then you come
home and life is hard because it's cold and you're

(31:36):
bundling up. And then you go home and just like
I gotta go to sleep and then get up and
then bump and bump five on five and drills and
stuff for practice for two hours just was harder. This
Israel was better here. Here's something people don't realize it,
but you will like road trips. So like in Russia,
like if you were playing a road game, like you
get on a bluster live like you go in Israel.

(31:57):
It's such a small country. It's day of right, so
and I am from Spain where we'd be taking twelve
hour bus rides Germany too, or if we'd fly, it
would still like you'd be gone for two days. I'd
be like really tough travel. Like in Israel, you're playing
in Haifa, which is a little bit far. It's like
that's like a two hour bus, right, that's like the
long one, you know, Like so that part of it, man,
it was just like such easy living. The basketball is good,

(32:17):
that people are cool like and then for me like
being Jewish, having family in Israel, and you know, my
my dad almost went to Israel, like you know, they
ended up coming to America, but like my whole all
my other family members went to Israel, right, so like
there's something meaningful there as well to like reconnect with
family in the past. So for all those reasons that
I just loved it there. Yeah, plus actually the falafel,

(32:41):
but all the food, Like my wife and I came
home like snobs, like we've come to it. We'd be
in a restaurant in the States like, well, this produce
isn't fresh, you know, because like tell us also you
never say hummus ever again, Yeah, exactly, it's not hummus.
It's just it's not how much, it's not how to
pronounce it. Um okay, So you never played for my

(33:02):
copy tele v what well I would have if they would,
if I would have gotten the offer. So like, let's um,
they'll understand, but why didn't they? Like what was it?
So my first year in Israel for for Banana Tarone,
I was the leading so I counted as Israeli as
you probably did, just on account of being Jewish, right,
so that helps kind of with the quotas. And so
I was the leading domestic score in the league. Had
a really good year, Our team did really well, so

(33:24):
I was like kind of sought after, and David Black
called me and I thought that it was gonna happen,
you know. So there was like a week where I
thought I was gonna play from a copy. They ended
up going in a different direction, and uh, I actually
signed with Halone very briefly to follow my coach Dan Shamir,
who's an amazing coach. D had some financial stuff, so
I end up going to Hopball Jerusalem, right, which is
kind of like the second biggest team in the league
and also a really strong club. And uh so never

(33:47):
never so oh did Katash brought me Um and you know,
oh Dad was just the legendary player. And actually when
my dad was GM of the Knicks, my dad wanted
to bring oh Dad to the NBA to be the
first really player, but it was during the lockout, so
there was a lockout. And then I think eventually signed
with the team overseas and he never made it to leave.
But he was an NBA caliber player, just an amazing player,

(34:09):
a great guy. And then he was like go in
the middle of my first year. And actually Sharon Drewker
then joined and I had Drewker for for my last year.
Um Katash was He's a different cat though, right, like
he retired mid career to like go and find himself,
didn't He Like, he's a he's an interesting dude, listen
for I love this guy and he in Israel. He

(34:30):
is just like a legend. He's a great guy, and
they're there are just there are some. There are different
ways to be successful in life and in business and
everything else. And like I learned a lot from Ode
because like he's the type of hands off coach. Like
I remember one time after practice our assistant was like,
oh yeah, free throws and oh that looked at him
like whatever, He's like, I don't care, like album shoot
free throws, Halbam, don't like when I was at Stanford,

(34:51):
like you were shooting twenty, you were registering how you
shot it. There's a data base, you know what I mean,
Like was like, shoot your free throws. Don't But I'll
tell you this. He won a championship in the Israel
League with Khalil Gobaa like a few years before he
came in coming to Jerusalem. It hurts, you know what
I mean, Like his hee's hands off. But he trusted
his players. You know. But if you you can do
with pros and but you gotta have the right pros

(35:12):
to the right prom dug. It didn't work in Jerusalem
for us. We we struggled because we didn't have the
right pros, you know what I mean. So that to
your point, Yeah, it's gotta be the right people totally.
You know. I just coached in TBT and you know,
with those guys, we we played a game and they
were exhausted, and I just I said, hey, we got
a shooting time middle of the day. Let me know
if you guys want to go. And I expected none
of them to go and then you know, they all

(35:34):
showed up and it was it was great. But I
was like, actually didn't want them to go because I
wanted the rest of their legs. And then we got
viserrated in the in the second game, Um, why did you?
Why did you? Why did you close it? Why would you?
Why did you quit? Yeah, you can relate to this
man like I mean like you put your heart and
soul into it for all those years and you know,

(35:55):
you just know right, And and there was a point
like my last year, so there was my fourth year
in his or I went back to hurt Cilia and
because I had two kind of disappointing years in Jerusalem,
and I thought I'd provide my career. I still physically
was okay, not that ever I was. I was that
great physically, but I had whatever I had to begin
with where I could still do some things. But dude,
I would I would be groaning tying my shoes before practice,
you know, like just physically like I just and and

(36:17):
literally a weekend I called my dad. I was like,
I'm done, man, Like I just don't have it, you know.
And and also playing overseas takes a toll because you're
away from your family all those years and Israel is
like the best possible. This is the thing I think
now now it's a little different, you know when I
remember when I was there and this is like uh
one or two is you know you can watch ESPN remember,

(36:38):
but there's still there's there's parts of your life which
you are missing up right, Like you know it doesn't
you can play fantasy football there, but it's just not
the same on a Sunday when when you know the
games are on at different times, and just parts of
your life that you you take for granted about our
country that you can't do and and you know you

(37:00):
have cousins that have kids, and people get married and
going and seeing other people play their sports and just
your regular life that I don't I don't know if
people conceptualize. They only vision, Hey, I'm gonna get money
and put that money away and have a bunch of
money when I start my life, which is great, but
there are things that are sacrificed. So I'll tell you this, man,
Like I always like and my wife my wife, but

(37:22):
she was my girlfriends for a tigracies acts my wife,
but like she was over with me for our last
five years. Right, if it weren't for her, I don't
know how I would have made that trip over because
I had the comfort and and that kind of connection.
But like it, it can be isolating, and like you know,
I I have a lot of empathy for international players
who come to the NBA and like fans will just

(37:43):
like they don't know how hard it is to leave
everything you know, the people, you know, the places, the
things that come to a country that's not your own.
And for me and Israel, like I had every advantage.
I had family, they speak English. It's amazing. My wife
with me. Dude, you had to drag me to the airport. Man.
By my last year, I'm almost like hiding in my
bedroom closet. Dude, it's like to go back over because

(38:03):
I was like, oh, you leave everything right, so um,
people don't get it. But then also when you look
at young Europeans in the NBA, like I have a
lot of empathy because I'm like they left everything behind.
It it's hard. Okay, so did you quit mid season?
Did you finish that? Hear? What did you do? Now?
I would never equipment season and like I never quit
on my team, Like I was trying, like I did

(38:24):
not have a great hear like I must at all
all my energy, but no, I I kind of knew
like this is gonna be my last year, and actually
I wanted to make it like the best I possibly could,
and so I still tried. You know, I worked and
I competed. But you know, when your heart kind of
checks out a little bit, it's really hard because basketball
is so competitive, man, and like and and that's how
it should be. Like if you don't fight tooth and

(38:45):
nail for everything, someone else will and it should be
that way. And there was a point in my career
where I was the guy out working and out fighting people.
And then I got to the point where I was
getting out worked and out fat by guys. And I
guess that's a natural cycle. But like, uh finished out
my career. But like, honestly, as soon as the buzzer
sounded on my last game, broke broke into tears. Man

(39:05):
just just cried, just crying, who is it against? Who's
your last game against? Funny? And Uh, actually I write
about this this story in my book because it was
against hopp walle a lot. And you know how it
is in in these leaves you get relegated if you're
towards the bottom. And pertually it was like a good
club like should never be in danger of relegation, and
we were this year. And it came down to the
last game of the year, the last game I knew

(39:27):
of my career. So I'm like, jeez, like, can I
just sail off into the sunset with this thing? Like
and I'm playing like crap, and I'm like, oh, can
we just you know, end this in the on the
positive note, The game came down to the last possession.
We were up one and they had the ball and
actually the teammate from a mind from Jerusalem national team,
awesome player, you've all Naimi. I don't know if you
remember him, but really really good player. He had the
ball to win the game, and at the buzzer he missed,

(39:51):
so like and and our fans stormed the court, you know,
and I did. I just put my hands on top
of my head and just started to cry. And I
looked in the in the stands of my wife and
she was crying because like, listen, this is a is
a lifetime pursuit, man, and you know, you put everything
into it. I growing up going to games with my
dad working out with my dad, like everything that he
went through in my grand and my family went through
to get me the opportunities I had, Like it all

(40:13):
just came out at that moment um. It's interesting. So
I have two end of career stories. So, um, my
last game in Russia. It was my first year professional,
but this was when I probably knew right then and there,
like I wasn't cut out for European basketball or maybe
even professional basketball. So when I went to perm Rush,

(40:37):
I played with euro Great and I played as American
and I joined them in January and we only lost
one game the whole time I was there, which is
crazy in our European league. And that and the only
guy game we lost was because I played with the
juniors against Seska because we had won the league in
advanced automatically to the semifinals. It was like our last
regular season game and those guys got to go on vacation,

(41:00):
had to stay and play. So I was really hard
because like I went from like I'm a facilitator by
nature to like now I'm the guy. And I took
a bunch of shots. I missed a tun of them anyway,
So my last game Rush we win the Russian Championship
against Kazan, and it's in Kazan and they have a
small arena, but it was packed and there's kazoos whatever,

(41:20):
and I was getting like a fifty grand bonus or
somebody else. I was really excited about it. But the
way in which that series went, we were so much better.
They would start me and I would They would try
and press to start the game and he couldn't press me.
And then we get a lead and they take me out.
And then once we get a big lead, Willie Burton,
who was the other American, they take him out too,
because they wanted the Russian guys to win, to to

(41:42):
be you know too that So I didn't hardly play
that much. And I just remember winning the championship and
everybody was celebrating and I had no feeling in my
body and I was like and the juxtapansation of that
and a year earlier, when I lost my last game
with Oklahoma State and we're at Syracuse, like I felt

(42:05):
like we all it was like a death in the family.
I can tell you every one of my losses in
college and every reason why we lost and everything I
should have done better, right like, I can tell you
exactly what I did. I didn't give a ship. The
only thing I heard about was, oh my god, I
just made fifty dollars and I barely play right, and

(42:26):
I just like, this is not what I got into
it for. And so then I uh. And then I
went to Israel and it was okay, and then I
was I, Uh, I got a chance. I actually did
broadcasting for year. I came back and played in France,
and I really liked it because I had a younger coach.
He's uh, who's a black eye from like the Martinique

(42:47):
or whatever. It was fun. But so my actual last
competitive professional game, I don't know if I've told the
story on the product. So we're playing, uh, not Laman,
some you from up like near Normandy, like Nancy or something.
I'm not sure. Okay, So we were I was brought
in to replace a guy who was injured to try

(43:08):
and get them to the first Division, and we were
like in third place in the top two teams went
and I think we went like four and one the
time I was there, or maybe six and one or something.
We lost wining. I remember like the day of the game,
the other team we get done shooting around, and this
is where like I actually enjoyed a little bit of
the isolation. I signed a deal and they they said,
we're not gonna give you a car because you're gonna

(43:28):
live like two blocks from the arena. And it was
only for like two months. I was like, all right, whatever.
So I had this little studio. I get up in
the morning, I go across the street, I get a
cappuccino and get a like a Danish. I'd walked to
the gym, lift Wade's shoot, you know, hang out a
little bit. Then I walked to a cafe where I
got free food and the chef would come out and
say something in French. I always said I would like

(43:50):
and he would make it for me. It was amazing. Anyway,
So my last game open that we get out done
with like our shoot around, and the door opens for
their bus and it's my high school teammate, David Lallazarian,
who went to Notre Dame the year after I went
and I had to leave, so we never played together
as college players play age. But all of sudden he

(44:11):
walks out the bus, and so too does Kelvin Gibbs,
who I had known grown up. He played at Pepperdime.
I played him my my senior year uh in school,
and so Kelvin's on the team. David was like traveling
with the team. They're trying to put on a contract
for next year. End of the game, Uh, I'm talking
ship this French point guard. We're winning, and he wants

(44:32):
to fight, and these other guys score off and start
fighting and I get kicked out of the game with
like fourteen seconds ago in my last professional game. So
I'm going this is to the crowd. I'm doing this thing,
you know, to the crowd. And my wife and David
are actually sitting up in the stands and I walked
underneath them in that little vomitorium area right and I'm
I'm like blowing kisses, and all of sudden I hear

(44:53):
this rush sound and the guy comes to want to
fight me in the hallway in a huge melee. Anyway,
I'm suspended six games in France if I ever go back.
Just so you're aware, um, as I went out with it,
I did not go out with the tears of joy
and mixed emotions. But I do know that feeling because
that year I had it. And then the reason I

(45:15):
didn't come back and play was I got a full
time offer ESPN, and I couldn't even get myself to
play pick up ball, you know, for like almost a
year because I just had this one. I had my
shooting mental block thing was really was had gotten better,
but it just it really bothered me sometimes to play
basketball with people, um and then two it just wasn't

(45:38):
the same. I just didn't I love it because it
didn't mean anything everything, Like I like basketball that means something,
even if you go play the park, like I want
to stay on the court or I want to play
with a friend and I want to I wanted to
mean something, Like it got to a point where didn't
mean anything. Yeah, I didn't touch a ball for a
year after I retired, and it was you know, I'd
say a similar thing like I needed a break, needed

(45:59):
to kind of like be impressed, and like basketball is
such an accessible sport, right like you watch it, you
roote for it, but you know, like if you haven't
lived it, it's hard to really understand like the pressure
that how much it means, like and how much you
have to put into it to get to some of
those levels. Uh, you know, sort of like you and
I like, yeah, we had some ability, but it's not

(46:19):
like you can just walk on the floor at any
time and dominated, right, So you have to really devote
your life to get into the level you want to
get to. And uh, it's it's just it's an amazing journey,
but it it is taxing. So you get back and
when did you decide to go to business school? So
my last year playing, I knew that, like, okay, I
want to because you know, I had done well academically
at Stanford. I was really I like to learn, and
I was like, I want to go back to school.

(46:40):
So I was studying for the test, and I joke
with people like I, you know, I I focused a
lot on that and it probably showed on the court,
but also on the test. I did really well there,
but like, yeah, you know, so I I took a
year and I worked at the NBA for my first
kind of job post post basketball, which is also weird
because then I'm like i'd be like sitting at a
desk at noon and I'm like I text my friend

(47:02):
like dude, I'm just like sitting here. Like they're like,
this is what I do now, Like you get used
to it now, I said, that's what you do. But
like there's that transition when you're used to just like yeah,
lifting and practice and resting. And I was like, oh,
I I said at the desk. But uh, you know,
so I have a I have a friend. His name
is Gabe Frank. He's a doctor, uh in North Carolina.
But he also played the copy games team with us

(47:23):
in oh One. Anyway, he went from playing in the CBA,
he went to Wisconsin Stevens Point to being in medical
school and he would he was like his first year,
he almost I think he almost flunked out and he
really struggled. And it wasn't because he wasn't smart, but
he was just so used to the basketball lifestyle, which
basketball lifestyle is. We all think we worked hard, but

(47:45):
there's you can only be in the gym so long, right, Like,
so I spent all days. I'm like, he didn't you
went there if you went hard, you know, you lifted
hard for forty five and you went hard in the
gym for an hour and then he came out, he
got some eat and then he came up and take
an app. Yeah, and then young you play video games
all day and then you called some friends and then
you had practice at night. Right, So he was like

(48:06):
used to that lifestyle. Now he's now he's in medical school.
Like yo, doue. We don't like take a nap in
the middle of the day. We don't play video games
in the middle of the day, like you gotta study
all the time. And then residents, he was really hard
for him. It's it's like, as athletes, you do have
to work hard, but it's just a different patient pattern
than how my friends I we call him civilians and

(48:29):
how civilians live, so true man, and like, so there
was that adjustment for me the first year, you know,
applying to business schools got into Standard, which was awesome,
such a great program, and like I at the time,
my life there, like it was a great kind of
accelerator for me, and just you know because again, like
you go through this very intense athletic pursuit, but you
have your your whole life in front of you. And
I was also lucky because I had a great example

(48:50):
my dad, Like he had an awesome career and he
was a legend in all these ways. And thirty one
years old, he was done playing thirty one, right, it's
you're still a young man. And so but I saw
like his career after that, you know, after playing, you know,
it was it was bigger than his playing career, right,
and so like I had that great example like you
need to build after you're done, and so, you know,
I love love my experience at Business School and I

(49:11):
definitely recommended for for players who have the kind of
the desire to do because I think it's an awesome experience.
Will learn not only like about the business world, will
learn about yourself plus the people who are around you, right,
Like I'm sure Stanford Business School there are probably some
pretty successful people that that go through those halls. Amazing. Yeah,
it's like and just like amazing friends and like push

(49:34):
you and challenge you. But like, yeah, like the network,
right that the Stanford Business School network before and after
is really powerful and in your personal relationships. And uh,
I wouldn't trade it for the world. Man, why do
you why do you think this is a question? Okay,
so it's real conversation I had. So, Um, I'm a
big believer in the value of the network. Right, But
that's that's the real reason you're going to college. You

(49:56):
don't go to college is anything you'll learn. I learned
a lot in local and state marketing. I learned a
lot at Notre Dame. Just it was kind of like Stanford,
where the level of intelligence of everybody there and the
ideas who was really profound, which is above any sort
of level of what I'm I was used to. And
so what I told those guys is like, look, uh,
Oklahoma State basketball. Now it's kind of become a little

(50:18):
bit of dysfunctional family because we've had a bunch of
different head coaches, and some of the head coaches weren't
weren't about the basketball family. They were just about their
basketball team. When we were there, it was all about
the family, right And to this day, if I need something,
those are the guys I talked to. Those are the
guys I call on. Those are the guys I depend upon.

(50:39):
And so I said, look, let's let's fix that. Do
you guys need anything, you call me. Um. I know
Stanford's like that where you guys are super super close.
I think a lot of schools are like that. But
why do you think that in I just feel like
maybe the media we do a bad job of helping
people understand what the real value to call just because

(51:00):
we're we're in this mindset where the only thing that
is a value is actual money, and I don't I
don't think that's the case. Don't get me wrong. You know,
some guys come from tough means. A little money does help,
absolutely helps. And the money you make is a professional
athlete should help you in that next life. But that

(51:22):
next life is all about who you're gonna pick up
the phone and call when you want to start your life, right,
And I just I wonder why society, in society, we
don't understand the true value of who you know and
who you meet during your time in college. Yeah, I
mean it's listen. I mean I think everyone's different, right,
and like college is not for everyone, which is of

(51:43):
course fair and cool and and everyone should just do
what what is comfortable for them. Like for me, I
really appreciate the opportunity in college to like to meet
different types of people, you know, and that was so
that that just brought into your horizons a lot. And
Standard is a really cool place because it is such
a diverse student population. But like that's really stuff that
I'll take with me forever, just like meeting friends from

(52:05):
different parts of the world with different interests, you know.
I wasn't. I wasn't just hanging out with basketball players,
although I did a lot of that, right, But even
my teammates are from all difference, uh parts of the world.
So yeah, I think that, like, the college has a
ton to offer. I think it's important to talk about it,
you know, in the classroom. Out of the classroom, you
can grow a lot. But for those who like aren't
academically inclined or who aren't interested in college, I think

(52:27):
I don't think it's the only path either. Yeah, it's
it's I don't know, it's gonna be interesting see how
it evolves with so many different options for for players, Um,
what what it looks like five years from now? What
looks like ten years from now? Whereas I think kind
of growing up for me and you, it was all
I ever dream about was playing in college, right, Yeah,

(52:48):
that's all I ever dreamed about. And I talked about
it with a lot of people, and I did a
podcast in Maurice Clarette and he was like, look, I
grew up in Youngstown, Ohio, and when I grew up,
all anybody cared about was playing in college, right, And
it does feel like that has evolved in change. Whereas
college too many people. And I think it's how we
It's like it's not really a way station. It's a

(53:10):
place you stopped and then maybe you go to another
destination afterwards. But you stop, you unpacked, you grow, you evolved,
and I feel like we diminished that. Um okay, when
did you decide I want to write a book? So
I've done a lot of writing over the course of
my life. When I was playing professionally, I had contributing
writing positions to several websites, and I had some you know,

(53:31):
success with my writing. I just love it, man, even
as a kid, like my mom and dad will tell you,
like everyone knew me as like a basketball player, but
I'd come home and just like rite stories like and
even when I was writing when I was playing, like
people weren't paying me. I just loved it, man. So
I was writing articles and things like that. And I
always knew that there was like a white whale project
for me, which was this book. And so um so,

(53:51):
my dad is the only player in NBA historyes parents
survived the Holocaust, and so my grandparents were Holocaust survivors.
Have a very very big story. You know, my grandmother
was saved. I by Swedish diplomat Robul Wallenberg, who's like
one of the greatest heroes of the Holocaust. Um, my
grandma lives here in the Bay Area, came to every
home game I played at Stanford, so like we're extraordinarily close.
And you know what I was talking before about, like

(54:12):
why I cried when my career ended, what it all
meant to me, Like basketball is a miracle for my
family because my dad came to the United States nine
years old, having never never touched a basketball, didn't speak English,
really grow up in the shadows of the Holocaust, and
his brother passed away right when they got to America,
like really really tough background, and he went to the
park to play hoops and make friends and learn English.

(54:33):
And like, you know, ten years later, standing on the
podium as an Olympic gold medalist for the United States,
you know, shows you what basketball can do. So for
my family, man, like I live this life of like man,
basketball is such a profound impact on us. And so,
and since I love to write, and since the story
means so much to me, I was like, one day
I'm gonna do it. And so when I was in
business school, since I had a little bit of space

(54:53):
after my career to like think about things and really
like looking to myself and inside of me and be like,
what do you want to do? And uh, I said, listen,
I want to do this. This is probably the most
important thing I'll ever do, just because it's my it's
our history, and it's an important story. But and I
said this, like, if you're gonna do it, you need
to approach it like you approached hoops, like for basketball.
I got up at in the morning, I'd eat, i'd

(55:14):
go to sleep, I'd work out when I got up.
You know. It was all disciplined. And so I was like,
if I'm gonna write this, I have to write it.
So I'd get up at six am every morning for
eight months, um and write the thing. And so you
know that was after a year and a half of research.
So it really is uh, you know, it just came
in time. I was like, this means the world to me.
I want to I wanna get it out there. But
to do it, you, just like anything else, you have

(55:35):
to put your mind to it and be disciplined. Um.
Did you sell it first and you know, with like
a rough outline of what it was like or did
you write it and then shop it? It's a great question.
And so I knew very little about like the book
business before I started writing it. And how you would
usually do a project like this is you like you

(55:55):
have an idea, right, and like there's also a lot
of like really big stories about my fan only like
how they got to American fleeing communism and all these things,
and also my career and how it's kind of like
all intertwined because I grew up privileged, right, And we
talked about that, like with opportunities my answers couldn't have imagined, right, So, um,
so I knew that there was a big story here.
So usually what I would do is I put an
I put an outline together. I'd write a sample chapter

(56:17):
of marketing plan, then find an agent. Then the agent
would sell that idea. Then you would write the book
around that idea. I did it backwards, and I that
was Some professors at Stanford kind of mentored me a
little bit through this, and one of them in particular
said they were like, you know what this means the
world to you? You've written a lot write it like
because I think this person kind of sense like this

(56:37):
is like really in my heart and it needs to
be said. They're like, you don't you want to write it?
So like I just put my head down, man, and
just wrote it. And then after I did that, I
got an agent. Then I built a proposal based off
the book that already existed. Then we kind of publish
it for it. Um did your wife edited? Like who
read it and gave me the first like legit feedback.

(56:58):
So my wife has a mass There was some communications
and she worked as a copy editor, so she's like
she she helps me with all my stuff. She's amazing, amazing.
So honestly, they'll Doug like, my, my, you won't believe this. Man.
My parents didn't know I was working on this for
the first three and a half years because when you
when you talked to it was like what do you
what are you doing? Dan? What are you doing time?

(57:19):
I mean, like I listen to a book, I would
you know once in a while, I was like, you know,
I'm working on a few things. But and I also
interviewed my dad's like a year but I told him
I was like, listen, I'm gonna I'm gonna work on things,
and I just want to know all these things but
like for me personally, it's it's it's so deep and
meaningful that like I had to just kind of like
go into my own world with it, and and so

(57:42):
but when it was finally ready, when there was something
to be seen, it was you know, my wife of
course read the first one and we we went back
and forth, and it's been dude, I've been working on
for five plus years at this point, Like it's, uh,
you know, a book is like a labor of love
in every way, particularly one like this man, where the
story is big and and not only is a big
for me personally, but for me there's always felt universal,
right because the themes are survival, perseverance, family legacy, sports

(58:06):
is a way to build bridges. And I always just
had this sense like, man, this matters to the world, right,
Like these type not not just this story, but these
types of stories. Right, this is just one of many
stories that matter in this way. So I was like,
I just want to tell it because I think, you know,
there's a lot of there's a lot of really hard things,
you know, when you're talking about when I'm talking about
what happened to my great grandparents and Auschwitz where they

(58:27):
were murdered really really difficult things like my dad never
had grandparents. All of his grandparents were killed in Auschwitz,
you know. But at the same time, the story is
hopeful because my dad, you know, played in the NBA
and as Olympic gold medalist, was a long time you know,
executive in the NBA. Like it kind of is like
a dreams can come true situation and and certainly the
American dream you know. So man just just such a

(58:49):
like a personal personal pursuit to tell that story. Um.
I also find that this, this story now I needed
to be told. But there's a lot lot of people
who need to understand it, right because there's so many
like as time goes, not enough people know the story, right,

(59:11):
They just don't they you say Holocaust, and it doesn't
really when you say like six million Jews, ten million people,
Now it's gonna be like really and it's so hard
to fathom, right, because of all the different struggles we
go through, right, Like you can't even imagine in your

(59:33):
mind the atrocities that were committed less than a century ago,
records of a century ago, right, so it needs to
be told. Well, what is the feeling like when you know,
like Myers Leonard saying saying, Kike right, and other people
you know, using um not really understanding what they're talking about.

(59:57):
Like what is that like for you who not only
has a family who's survived, but you've also researched it,
and when you research it, it becomes even more tangible,
more real to you. Yeah, yeah, I mean, listen, it's
it's upsetting, like anti Semitism and and really injustice in
any form is upsetting. And for me for to not
understand kind of what happened and what's at stake when

(01:00:19):
there's injustice, right, and I know that we all not
all too well right, and to your point, it wasn't
that long ago like that, when we get when we're
done here, I will call my grandma because I call
her every night, and we're gonna just talk and she's
gonna face time with my with her great grandson. She's man,
she was there right, like she was there. Like it's
like you can say, like her parents were killed, five

(01:00:40):
of her siblings were murdered, like those are just words,
but that happened to her, right, and so like that,
that's that's where someone I love, one of the people
I love the most in the world she went, she
went through that, right, So like, yeah, it hurts me
when I see that like anti Semitism and also it
not being kind of you know, taken as seriously as
it is. And again that goes for all forms and
elsin And I think I was always raised like stand

(01:01:02):
up when things are wrong because you know what's at stake,
and like it could be you know, whether it's whether
it's Jews or you know other groups were being like
persecutor discriminated against. There's just no place for it. And yeah,
it's super personal for me, man, It's super personal. Okay,
So so I know social justice is a huge part
of who you are, um, but you'll have people that
will say, you know, there's like look, Dan, white privilege.

(01:01:26):
That's how you were able to Your dad was a
gentle manager, you went to great schools, then you go
to Stanford. And my pushback not being you would be like,
hold on, dude, his dad got off the boat and
everything he got he yearned for himself. And we're in
a sport which is predominantly black, and every negative stereotype

(01:01:46):
given is given to the white basketball player that you
have to find a way to overcome. If I said
to you, or somebody said to you, Dan, you're a
product of white privilege. What would your response be? I
would agree with at And I'll tell you why I am.
I am, in no doubt I'm a product of privilege
because I grew up in a privilege and fronement where
I had opportunities and resources. But as a white man

(01:02:08):
in America, I benefit from privilege. I think that's how
our society is um and I think that's you know,
that's fair to to acknowledge. And I'm and I'm happy
to acknowledge that. Like, as a white man, you know,
I have advantages unfairly that some of my black friends
don't write. And I do think they're they're injustices in
society that are important to call out. But that being said,

(01:02:30):
like everyone everyone has their own journeys as well. So yeah,
my dad is, But aren't those Aren't those My pushback
would be, aren't those privileges? Heard? Right? Like you're going
to Staford that's because you worked your ass off in
both school and sports, like I I mean, I think
I think there's athletic privilege. I don't think we're talking
up about there's socio economic privilege, you know, And I

(01:02:52):
don't know. If I don't, I don't know, I have
a tough time. And just because I do understand that's
that people come from different means. But you're describing to
me a you know, family in disarray that comes to
this country and uh and and earns everything they've had,
and yet you're saying that you're somehow privileged for what

(01:03:15):
So it's been earned previous to you. So so I
I think, like, for instance, for me getting to Stanford,
for my dad make it to the NBA, that wasn't privileged, right,
because there are no gifts in basketball. That's hard work, right.
But I just think in society, as a white male
in society, you benefit from privilege just based off of
that status because there are inequities in our society. I

(01:03:35):
think that's the reality. But as a place like my
success and my dad's success, it's all there's been no
privilege at all because my like my dad earned what
he what he got, and I earned what I got
on the basketball winning the classroom. Right. So I got
to Stanford because I worked my ass off and the
classroom on the court, you know what I mean. And
my dad game went from like this really really tough background,
not speaking the language, like I mean, it's it's amazing.

(01:03:58):
Like what he was, where he was able to get
from where he started what is truly a miracle. And
it was through hard work and perseverance and all these
qualities that were inside of him. So like the success
that like he had or that I had was earned.
But I do think it's really important to acknowledge that
as like white males in society, we do benefit from
privilege because of like the the inequalities that you know

(01:04:21):
that that our president. Um when when somebody reads this book,
and don't you don't tell people that you tell people
basically kind of the premise of it one story that
they're not gonna believe that you're gonna I cannot believe.
I oh man, there is that's an awesome question. Once well, listen,

(01:04:41):
I don't want we've already touched on some of the
more difficult things. You know, I'll tell you something that
people won't believe because this is a story that that
is not really well known. So my dad is uh,
fled Romania as a refugee, right, So my dad was
one under communism and my my my family fled under
dre s, right, and so living under communism, you're not

(01:05:02):
allowed to have anything, you can pick anything out right,
So it's you know, this is pretty pretty hard life.
And so my family was able to accumulate money illegally,
right because under communism you're not allowed to accumulate things.
And they were always they were searching for for ways
to get it out right. So because you know, everything
was searching you couldn't take anything out with them, they
were able to and they had several thousands of dollars

(01:05:24):
by then, which was like a fortune in those days.
So my grandpa was like, how then on, like, we're
getting this money out, how are we going to do it?
The way they were? And they had American dollars, which,
by the way, if you were caught with American dollars,
like you're going to prison, your maybe being tortured, maybe
being killed. So this is like pretty high you know,
like high stakes stuff. My my grandparents were able to
smuggle their money out by eliciting the support of one

(01:05:47):
of the biggest celebrity comedians in the United States, Buddy Hackett.
So Buddy Hackett was filming a movie in Budapest, and
my grandparents to new some on who was working on
the movie set, and they were able to convince Buddy Hackett,
who was like one of the biggest celebrities in America,
to smuggle their money out for them and send it

(01:06:09):
to their family in the United States. So when they
already put it, they sent it to my grandmother's brother
who was already settled in the Bronx with extra money
on top by the way, saying good luck in America.
And so when they got off the boat. While they
actually flew, but when they got to America, Uh, the
money that they were able to start a life with
was illegal money made under communism in Romania that was

(01:06:32):
smuggled out by one of the biggest celebrities in the
United States at the time. Um, have you been to
the concentration games? I haven't. Um, I haven't neither. I
want to go. You know, I had an opportunity where
I wasn't able to but listen, Like, I actually talked
to someone today who told me about that someone in
their family visited Alfitch and this is a non Jewish friend.

(01:06:54):
He said it was one of the most profound and
chilling experiences that they've ever had. I felt that when
I went to Yashem every time I've in Yashem in
in Jerusalem, just I just you know, like brought to
my knees every time, just the trustees and and look,
I'll be honestly I wasn't. It's not the same. But
you're in the National Civil Rights Museum in uh in Memphis.

(01:07:17):
It's at the Lorraine Hotel where Martin Luther King Junia
was shot and so they still have the room intact,
and then the museum is built around it, and um,
obviously there's not six main people but the but when
you visit it, you walk away just the embarrassed for
your country. Just you're just sitting there going like how

(01:07:38):
did granted you know, my family is like your family,
Like we you either treated people with respect, you know,
or or you wouldn't see the light of day, right,
But you just you look around you like how how
how do people have that within them in humanity? Right?
And and the Holocaust is just to a completely different level.
I do want to do it, I just don't know,

(01:08:00):
like emotionally, I'm not really I still don't think I'm
prepared for it. But it's like one of those things
that you've gotta I have this discussion with my kids
because I have three children and their mom is not Jewish,
and um, you know, two of them go to like
a Jewish day school and one says she's an atheist,
one says he believes in Jesus, and then their sisters like,

(01:08:22):
you know, I believe in God. I can't really figure out.
And I try and tell them like listen, I and
I don't. Actually doesn't actually bother me if you're not Jewish, like,
I'd love you to believe what I believe. But if
the more I say you need to believe what I believe,
then the less likely it is to happen. Right, it
happens or it doesn't happen. You know, I just want
you to tribute respect and hopefully believe in God and

(01:08:42):
know there's staff of life, will all be together, et cetera.
But your last name is God. That is a Jewish
last name. If and if there is a time which
people get singled out, you're gonna get singled out, whether
you like it or not. And you have to understand
everything that kind of comes with it, right, And that's
when those conversations, those visits, I think, become really necessary.

(01:09:08):
But I I just think like we do a terrible
job as a society in not teaching people about the
atrocities of the past. And then they like, you don't
want to scare kids, but you do have to educate
them on the evils that did run the earth, no
doubt about there. There's been some really troubling data around
like Holocaust awareness, and there are other things too, are
like people aren't educated on, but like people have to know.

(01:09:32):
I have to know about these things, and so that's
kind of one of my hopes with the book is
that younger people will engage because ultimately it's a it's
a story about some of these things that happened, but
the rapper is basketball. There's a lot of funny and
fun things and about growing up and you know, playing
the game, and the game you know how how my
dad's path my path, and so you know, there's there's

(01:09:53):
that really accessible part of it. But my hope is
always that younger people will engage and in the process
learn about some of these things, because I mean, like
the data shown, like I forget exactly what the numbers
where it was like half half of like millennials hadn't
even heard of the Holocaust, I didn't even right. It
was something like so disturbing, and I didn't even know
like what alf Fitz was or thought it was like,

(01:10:13):
you know, I didn't know the number six million and
things like that. And so listen, you know, all these
really troubling things in history, regardless of like who it happens,
do we need to learn from a man, because like
their humanity is capable of of a lot of great,
amazing love and amazing things. But there's a lot of
really really had things that can happen. And so that's
why I like, you know, treating people well, standing up

(01:10:34):
for what's right, standing against injustice, regardless of the form.
It's so important man. And so I hope my book
is just like a small part of that um okay
uh co basketball things before before we ended they were
a great shooter, What where did you aim? I appreciate
you saying that I was a streaky shooter. So if
I was in my if I was like in my

(01:10:55):
comfort zone, I could be lights out. But I was
a little bit too analytical that you know how it
is like like you're you're your own yourstead of me.
So I could definitely shoot the basketball, but I wish
again I could go back and like kind of retraining
my mind to shoot it a little more comfortably. But
you know what, I tried to a like front rim,
you know, but obviously over the front rim. But I
was more like front rim than back room. But I

(01:11:18):
was always I always kind of thought like I always
wanted to shoot naturally right and like not aim and
just kind of like did you watch the flight of
the ball or did you only look at the target?
I think I mostly looked at the target. I'm like
trying to go back and think, you know, so I
don't I don't quite remember her. I usually like when
I left my hands, I had a pretty good sense
of what was going to happen, you know, like when
I was on and there were times like you know

(01:11:39):
how it is, like when you're feeling in like the
ball swings and you shoot it and you're like, well,
I know what happened. I know what's happening there, Like
that's you know, started running back, Like those are the
best feelings. And there are times where it wasn't happening.
You shoot, you're like, oh that doesn't feel right. Um,
So I don't really remember if I tracked the path
of the ball. I might have though, now that I'm
thinking about it, Um, step in or one too or

(01:12:01):
hop in your shot one too? Always left right, yeah, now,
I mean like we worked at Stanford. Montgomery was big
on this, like trying to develop like some the right
handed player, so left right would be the true for me,
Like trying to be comfortable right left, because if you're
coming off a screen, a downscreen on the right side
of the floor, like you're gonna curl around where like
you want to take like right left into the shot,

(01:12:22):
you know. So we would work on that a lot
at Stanford, like stepping in with both feet. But my
comfort was just like left right. I always kind of
admire people like Ja Ja Reddick is so good at
like hopping into it, you know, and he seems to
get good spring off it. Like my one of my
weaknesses with my child, like my when my legs went
or I got tired, like you know, the jump shot
comes from the legs a lot, like when my should
would get a little flat. And I sometimes think back, man,

(01:12:42):
if I had that good hop step, maybe it would
have give me a little more spring. Um, you're the
funniest teammate you ever played. Man, that's such it. Carlton
weatherb my teammate at Stanford, Man, just the funniest, funniest dude. Um.
They were the same same grade, same age, and we

(01:13:02):
would just laugh NonStop. Um. And then of course professionally,
like I played with other guys to like, um, you
know Lee Alan, who you probably remember playing the league
like Lee and I, oh yeah, like I know Lee's
coaching now. Like Lee just had me rolling in on
the floor so many times. Like you play with guys
who just like are really really funny. But I had
a lot of teams at Stanford where we would we
would man have a lot of laughs. You just did

(01:13:25):
you ever did you know type so all the time?
Did you ever do you feel like you no? No?
So when so the game you mentioned when we hit
that half coad shot to win it all my birthday right,
like the fans rushed the court. It was like it
was madness. So finally we get into the locker room
and Tiger came into the locker room to talk to us,
you know, so it was like it was and that

(01:13:45):
was two thousand four, So he's like the biggest celebrity
on the planet and I'm not that's like, yeah, it's
like it's like peak Tiger, right. So he and he
was married to Ellen at that time, so they both
came in the locker room and uh, actually I remember
he went around the team and slapped us all high lives,
you know, and we're all just like little kids like
lining up, and he missed me. I was the last dude,
and he missed me. And he turned around, and I

(01:14:07):
was like kind of like oh man, Like but I
guess I didn't have like whatever the gusts to be like, yeah, Tiger,
could I get some love? But Montgomery his credit, said hey, Tiger,
you give grunty some love. Give grunty some love. And
he turned around and it was like, you know, like
the two hands met, and I was like, oh man,
that's the best. Uh. That was my most interaction with him.
I never got a chance, but I had a couple
of friends on the golf team who said that he
came and talked to them and did some like drills

(01:14:29):
with them where they would like chip into a bucket
or something. And my buddies like, yeah, like those guys
on the team, like out of ten, like if you
made like one to three, like it was good and
Tiger would get like eight nine ten. It would just
be like boom, boom boom, and it was like, dude,
it was next level. The most successful Stanford guy who
you were friendly with for any period of time one

(01:14:50):
of your two times to stamp wow. So you know,
the founder of Instagram was my class um, Kevin Sistram,
Like like I knew him around, but he doesn't. I
mean that was that was a huge you know, a
huge outcome. Uh you know it's a Ray who's a
very big, you know, actress and media personality, was a
year behind me at Stanford. Of course, like a lot

(01:15:11):
of athletes who have done really cool stuff, like my
guy Brook Lopez just wanted an NBA championship, which was
so cool. Brooke Brooke came the year after I left it. Actually,
I've heard you tell a very funny story about Brooke
and Robin because I know you you play with Alex right, yeah,
I know you know those guys, but uh yeah, listen,
like like there are and then there are a bunch
of people like in business school who just like have

(01:15:33):
started companies that are doing like extraordinarily well, which is
like Instagram. That's pretty right, Yeah, that's did you ever
get hit up on investing any of these things? You're like, well,
i'll tell you this, Okay, So Instagram, so you're gonna
take your own picture wherever you are. You're like, yeah,
great idea. You'll appreciate this time. So like my my
at Stanford, you have random freshman roommates. A lot of

(01:15:55):
schools like you you you yeah, so, which was great.
So my random freshman room it became my roommate all
four years at Stanford is one of my best friends
in the world. But he wasn't he he actually played
on football team briefly, but he wasn't recruited to Stanford
as an athlete. He was a mechanical engineer major, so
ours and we were all he lived with. All there's
a lot of other people on the team our sophomore
that we lived with, so he was the only non
basketball player. And he went to a career fair, like

(01:16:17):
on a weekend, and we were like, dude, we're watching movies,
we're hanging out. You're going to a career fair. And
this was two thousand four, our sophomore year, and he
came back. It's like, dude, like I got this job
offer from this little company like Facebook, like they had
a little booth, like I think it's pretty cool. We're like, dude,
hang out, like we're just chill, like it's not about that.
And so he he didn't take that, and so we

(01:16:39):
looked back on that. We're like, sorry, man, like you
you were right like we were. We were probably noted
on the right side of history there. Um, okay, so
you've this is like your life's work, right, this is
your no. One. It's a great question, man. Like, first all,
I I do love to write, so I would love
to see more opportunity used to be able to do that.

(01:17:01):
But I just like, honestly, like I really want to
live in the moment with this project now because the
book comes out on November, right, so it's available for
pre order now, and that that all that stuff has
gone really really well. There's been great engagement around and enthusiasm,
enthusiasm around it. Like unfortunately and you kind of you
references it's really relevant because of not only like the
increase in anti Semitism, but just in general, right, the

(01:17:24):
different kind of injustices in our society, Like stories like
this are really are are irrelevant now. Um, not that
they've ever done irrelevant, but there's been really good engagement
around it, and so like you know, just trying to
like stay in the moment, you know, share this story
with people, and then um continue to just kind of
like honor this history man. And like my grandmother, she's
really like she's the hero. She's my hero. She's the

(01:17:44):
hero of the story. She is a hero. And this
is something else that's in the book, Like she was
able to obtain false documents to survive on the streets
of Budapest during the war, but she risked her life
to obtain seventeen other documents for other people to write.
So she's quite literally a war hero. And um, for
me to like memorialize this and just to be able
to kind of like live her values, like that's that's

(01:18:05):
the most important thing to me right now. And if
I'm able to write more things and of course do
more things professionally. Basketball is always a huge part of
my life. Like those are all things that I care
about a lot, But just like to like live my
Krandma's values, then that's that's all I can ask for.
All Right, last thing you mentioned Milwaukee's plushment to high school.
Your dad was DGM there when they went to the
Eastern Conference Finals the last time around. Right, to see

(01:18:27):
them as NBA champions. And what's really interesting is part
of the stories I told is the New Yorkers from
MSG came over, brought the team right, and they they
had a vision and they weren't allowed to move it
her coals Like I'll throw in a hunter million, but
you can't move move the team, right. So they built
the practice ability, they built the new arena, and the

(01:18:47):
their NBA champions. But for you to have seen it,
it wasn't the darkest time when you were there, right,
but to see it and now see them as champions
and see what that city is going through, what's it like?
It's all some dude, Like I'm stopping for the community
to see sixty five thousand people in the Deatrick like
supporting that team, you know, and also to see like

(01:19:09):
it's such a likable team, right, be honest, like what
what what a what a human being? Let alone like
just an amazing player Drew Holiday, Chris Middleton, Like these
are just like stand up people playing the game the
right way for a community in a in a city
that I really care about. Something that's not very well known.
So you mentioned my dad's history with the Bucks. So
my mom and dad met through the books. So when
my dad was drafted, you know, he got to Milwaukee said, hey,

(01:19:31):
any any has Jewish girls in town, and oh, you
should meet Andy Khan. So my grandfather on my mom's
side was the original lawyer and and a part owner
of the Bucks. Like this is in the seventies, So
like my family's history of Milwaukee goes back fifty years.
And in fact, when the Bucks won in seventy one,
my grandfather got a championship ring because again he was

(01:19:52):
very closely affiliate with the team. For my bar Mitzvah,
he gifted me that ring. So I have a Bucks
championship rings from nine one. So it's actually funny because
my dad is in the NBA for forty years, but
I'm the one in my family with a ring, you know,
And I remind him of that. He'll say, I do
have a gold medal, and just that's just data sharing
with you, right, But yeah, man, So like my my

(01:20:12):
grandparents born and raised in Milwaukee, man, Like our roots
there are so deep so and I have so many
dear friends, man, so to see them win it and
the way they wanted and see like a city that
I care about so much, like have that success. It's
just awesome, just awesome, so exciting. Um, Dan, I can't
tell how much I appreciate you joining me. I can't
wait to read this book. I think it's a movie.

(01:20:35):
I'm sure. I'm sure you have the movie rights to it,
and the second somebody somebody in Hollywood reads it, they'll
make it into a movie. I appreciate it, and I
really appreciate joining us on the pod. No, thank you, guy.
This is awesome. It's great, you know, spending time and
catch it up and UH really appreciate this. You got
him a man. Talk to you soon. Quick reminder, The

(01:20:59):
Doug Godlip Here is daily three to six eastern, twelve
three Pacific on Fox Sports Trader the I Heart Radio
app series six seventeen and two oh three. My thanks
to Dan Grunfelt for join us. I hope you pick
up that book. I hope you enjoyed it. I'm Doug Gottlieb.
This is all ball

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