November 4, 2020 • 54 mins
On today’s episode of the 'Boys and Girl Podcast, Jane and Bobby discuss the news that Andy Dalton was placed on the Covid-19 list. Plus, notable offensive line coach Duke Manyweather stops by to discuss how the Cowboys’ line has played, and some of the draft prospects Cowboys fans should have their eyes on. Follow Jane and Bobby on Twitter and subscribe to get all the latest inside information from two of the most connected people in the Cowboys’ community.
Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hello, Boys and Girls, Welcome in to the Boys and
Girl Podcast with Cowboys NFL Network reporter Jane Slater and
NFL Network producer Bobby Bell. Cowboys Community with the inside
scoop on the Dallas Cowboys, now coming straight to you
(00:22):
from the Lone Star State. Here's Jane and Bobby. Well,
the COVID is finally hit the Dallas Cowboys, and we've
seen it throughout the league and really as we start
looking at cities and states across the US, as we
start getting in to these falling winter months, we are
seeing the COVID cases rise. And it looks like Andy
Dalton will not be playing against the Steelers this weekend,
(00:45):
not because he's still in concussion protocol, but he has
been moved to the COVID reserve list, which maybe it's
a little bit of a blessing in disguise that he
goes into concussion protocol. He's not been out there in
these huddles. Um. He has been in quarterback meetings. Last
update I saw, which we're recording this on Tuesday, election day.
We have no idea who won yet. By the way,
(01:06):
when this comes out, if you're please forgive us, we're
not neglecting the biggest story in the country. We just
don't know right now when we're recording, um, but you
know when this when we were recording this. As of
this point, McCarthy said, the last time that he had
seen Andy Dalton was Saturday in the quarterback meeting room. Um.
That he did not make the trip to Philly, so
he was not in that incubator of an airplane, and
(01:27):
he wasn't with the team on the road. And and
so those are all positive things, I guess, and and
I'm sure we'll learn more about who all was exposed
and what sorts of actions the Cowboys are taking to
keep this under control. But as I said, there may
not have been a better time for this to happen
than with a guy who was in concussion protocol and
a guy who wasn't mixing with the rest of the
players the last week or so. And keep in mind, too,
(01:50):
we don't know if he actually has it or if
he came in contact with a family member that had it. Uh. Again,
as we are recording this on a Tuesday, it's new information.
But uh, it's enough that he is now obviously on
that reserve list. So there's going to be some quarantine
for him, and they're moving forward to Denucci, which means
Garrett Gilbert, right, he would be the Garret Gilbert is
(02:13):
the backup, which I gotta wonder because you know, Jerry
seemed so certain that, uh, that Dalton was going to
be ready to play this weekend in terms of through
the concussion protocol. So it is interesting to me. I
got to look back and figure out when they signed
Cooper Rush, because Cooper Rush had to go through COVID
protocol and he wasn't going to be able to be
available until this week, which made you think he was
(02:35):
gonna Dalton was gonna be out for Pittsburghcause why I'll
signed Cooper Rush and have him go through COVID protocol
if he was going to be So it does make
me wonder sort of what led to the Cooper Rush
sign it. But you do have three guys here now,
Cooper Rush and Garrett Gilbert and Bend Nucci, and it's
it's a lot of think in Dallas, we've seen that
you can never have enough quarterbacks and Tony Remo, Kellen Moore,
(02:57):
Deak Prescot. I mean, think about how many years we
went in Dallas. I remember the year they decided to
go to quarterbacks and it was like the first time
and forever because they've always carried the three. Uh. This
year sort of feels like that year where it's like
you can't find enough, and especially I think they've got
to carry a few more quarterbacks this year for this
very recent possibility that someone could end up with COVID
(03:20):
UM and then of course you've got to isolate you know,
different position groups the way that they're doing things this year.
So the league is being very very careful as it
relates to COVID and of course you have to have
too negative tests uh in order to rejoin the team.
My quick question for you if Dalton is out because
of you know, this COVID issue and everything else. We
(03:42):
all love Bendannucci here, friend of the show, a really
good guy. Um, do you think there's any chance the
Cowboys look at this and go, ah, that was so
rough against the Eagles. Which this is our first time
talking since that rough Eagles game, But that was so
rough against the Eagles that maybe we should look at
giving Garret Gilbert a shot or getting him up speed er.
Do you think they just rolled with Denucci? I'd like
(04:02):
to see Denucci because Pittsburgh is his hometown, and so
you know, you would get the chance to play his
hometown Steelers. And I think that'd just be nice for him.
And in a year of not nice stories, well you
and I privately said if I was the Cowboys, I
would have rolled out with been Dnucci this week. Period. Uh,
let Andy Dalton get another week where he can rest up,
(04:23):
and then we've got the bye week. And but we've
we privately, we privately said that for a reason because
now we look like loons after how things went against Philadelphia.
But who got to continue here in thirteen against the
Steelers and he's lost seventh straight And started thinking, how
yet meaningful playing experience for the rookie, And Mike McCarthy
(04:43):
said that that's a position he wants a strength. In
other words, he wants to develop. And what better to
develop this kid than put him in a visional game
on Sunday Night football and then put him against an
undefeated seven and Pittsburgh Steelers team led by a guy
like Mike Tomlin. And he got Ben Roethlisberger coming in
here with guys like James Conner, j Smith, Schuster, Eric Ebron.
(05:04):
I mean go down the list. So offensive firepower, you're
gonna need your defense to do what they did against
the Eagles, and then some, and then some and then some,
because I think slowing down this offense is going to
be really really I believe the Steelers um still lead
the NFL and quarterback hits as well from a defense.
(05:25):
This year, through three games, the most Dac has ever
been hit in a game, I believe was nine. If
it's not nine, it's ten. Through three weeks this year,
Pittsburgh was averaging the eleven quarterback hits a game. They
were averaging every game more than Dak had ever been
hit in a game. And we've seen Dak take some
pretty big hits before. And so it is that that's
a defense that will get after you. That's a veteran
(05:47):
defensive coaching staff that I'm sure it's gonna go. Hmm.
Let's see, how can we, uh you know, make things
as difficult as possible on this young quarterback and as
confusing as possible, and let's take advantage of some of
these holes in the offensive line. And it has been
a really bad at offensive line, and a lot of it,
of course due to injuries and uh you know, rough
combinations and some unforeseen things and some some things that
(06:07):
you know, maybe they've shot themselves in the foot a
little bit. Uh. Cough cough, Terrance Steel cough cough. But uh,
that is why I think that this week I was
really glad. We we've tried for several weeks now to
talk to Duke many Weather, who is the offensive line Guru.
He is the founder of O O L Masterminds, trains
a number of guys leading up to the draft. Uh,
and we're gonna get his perspective today on the Cowboys
(06:29):
offensive line and some of these draft prospects who Cowboys
fans may start learning about as we get closer to
draft on some of these tackle prospects like Pina Swell
and Rashawn s Later. So, uh, we now welcome Duke
many Weather. Joining us now is Duke many Weather. He
is an offensive line skills trainer, UH, the offensive line guru.
(06:50):
He is the founder of Offensive Line O L Masterminds.
He also trains a number of draft prospects UH leading
up to the draft, working very close with a number
of them at Michael Johnson before him at Center in
the Dallas area. And uh he's worked closely with a
number of the Cowboys players over the years and and
has a really good uh feel for what good O
line play looks like. And so with so many questions
(07:11):
about the Cowboys O line and questions about the future
of it, and uh, you know what type of players
they may be looking at in the draft, there's nobody
better to talk to than Duke. And you can follow
him on Twitter at Big Duke fifty and on Instagram.
It's just a little different. It's at the Big Duke fifty. Duke,
how you doing doing well? Thanks for having me. Guys,
absolutely really excited have you. I'm curious you know, Uh,
(07:33):
I believe you played OH line at Humboldt State, right,
and so I know that that's kind of how you
got your start, and uh you you do. It's interesting
if people to look at your path. For those that
understand the draft process and understand the combined training process,
you're you're kind of a unicorn Duke that there there's
not a lot of guys doing the strength program portion
(07:54):
and the skills training. And yet I know that's you
do both of those things. And so uh talk a
little bit of I guess about how you got into
training offensive linemen, like how that path came to be
and a little bit of the work that you do
with guys. Yeah, you know what, where other people normally
grow up and come up playing different positions, I was
an offensive defensive lineman my entire life, from Pop Warner
(08:15):
all the way through high school, uh college in a
brief center Arena football league. So offensive line has really
been my passion and has been my lane that I've
always really stated. Um, I was undersized offensive lineman in
terms of height. You know, I'm six ft tall. Um.
But some of the things I knew I can control
early on was how hard I worked my preparation in
(08:37):
terms of strength training, my preparation in terms of the
mental part, knowing what I was doing, the techniques and
all that type of stuff. So I took that type
of stuff to heart, um, during my time at high
school and in college and became really a student of
the game and understanding what I can control. My parents
always told me, hey, listen, life isn't gonna be fair,
(08:57):
but I'll tell you what, if you work your tel off,
you know, you will start to get to where you
want to be. And I've just kind of kept that
mentality all the way through UM. So I went to
Humboldt State, played at Humbolt State, had that brief state
in Arena football, immediately got into coaching after I was
kept from the Arena Football League UM, and then from
there UM I was able to do something pretty unique
(09:18):
where I wore two hats. So I was an assistant
strength coach at Humbolt State under the legendary Drew Peterson,
and then in the afternoons, I had my own old
line room at College of the Redwoods Junior College, which
was about thirty minutes south down the road from Humbolt State.
And so for three years about back and forth being
an assistant strength coach and then being an offensive line
(09:39):
coach and run game coordinator and just kind of taking
everything that I had learned, and I tried to read everything,
listen to everything learned from other people in terms of
offensive line play, and I started to develop my own
philosophies are whole line UM. One of the things I
think really helped me was the learning process in the
background that I had and was learning and honing and
(10:02):
strength and conditioning and how the body worked and how
everything was a system. Allowed me to more effectively coached
offensive life from a biomechanic standpoint and mechanical advantage. So
when we were talking about certain techniques that may have
been you know historically, uh, you know, just kind of
passed down. I was always the critical thinker, and I
(10:23):
was curious to say, maybe there's a more effective way
for this type of body type and for this guy
who doesn't have like that six six reach, Uh, that
can be really effective. And so that's kind of where
my philosophy went in. And so I kind of wore
all kind of hats in terms of the strength and
conditioning aspect, the you know, skill and technique, and then
(10:45):
you know also the overall like coaching philosophy. M So
did that for three years that I was fortunate enough
to stay at humbold State as an assistant strength coach.
But then I end up moving over to the D
line side of the ball and humbold State and I
coached the line for three year that Humble State, my
amma monitor. Uh. That was unique because they gave me
a perspective of understanding how to attack offensive linement and
(11:07):
what we were trying to do as a defensive scheme. Um,
and I was able to coach some really good players.
But when I went moved back to the offensive side
of the ball, it was like a whole new world,
Like I knew exactly what I needed to do in
terms of developing offensive lineman in terms of putting them
in the best possible case scenario to have success every
(11:28):
single down. And that's really turned this into a complete
niche um. I was fortunate enough to garnish the attention
of la Charles Bentley. I went down there and worked
with him for a couple of years and him worked
closely together, and we went our separate ways and work
out for me there And because it didn't work out
for me there is probably the best thing that ever
(11:49):
happened to me because it allowed me to really dig
deep do the work on myself that I needed to
do UH to mature UH and to really come on
into my own baturation, to take everything that I had
learned from coaches that knew more than me and had
done more than me, and then really streamlined it to
what I wanted to be. So many people told me
that You're gonna have to pick you can You can't
(12:10):
be a straight coach, You can't be UH position coach.
You can't be an evaluator, And my question was always
why can't I? And I thought that combining all three
of those always gave me a unique advantage to be
able to see into the future and predict uh potential.
Uh and you know, the capacity for development. And I've
really stuck to my guns on that and I've really
(12:31):
worked to continue to stay in that lane. And that's
kind of what you're getting now. So what people are
starting to see now in terms of uh, you know,
what we're putting out with oldline masterminds and you know,
me working with many of some of the top offensive
line in the league today is really ten years of
deliberate practice. When we talk about mastery and when we
talk about you know, those ten thousand hours, it's a
(12:53):
culmination now really over twelve twelve years of work. So
it's not something that I just got into and it happened. Um.
This has been a you know, uh, trickle down and
comprehensive type deal. Duke. This is a Cowboys centric podcast.
So we've got you on here because we know you've
worked with Cowboys current in past. Can you talk to
(13:13):
me about some of the guys you've worked with and
even some of the guys in the league, so that
our listeners haven't grasped him. Just who you've gotten your
hands on, Yeah, absolutely, um Lyo Collins, I've worked with
from the Cowboys. UM, definitely had worked with now Ham Irving.
UM started to have a rapport with Tyler Beattish. Um.
I've worked with Connor Williams pre draft, getting him ready
(13:35):
for his pro day and all his individual workouts. UM.
And I've got a really great relationship with a lot
of the guys on the Cowboys team, UM, including you
know former and current players Ron Larry, Jeremy Parnell. All
those guys I trained for four or five years, even
when they went to other teams. So. UM, the lillian
(13:56):
and the roster in terms of Cowboys have been pretty extensive. UM,
great organization. They care about their players over there. The
players kind of get it in terms of what they
need to do, uh to get better in terms of
other teams. UM. Since this is a Cowboy Centery podcast,
many people are gonna hate to hear that Lane Johnson
is one of my favorite people. But there's nobody that
(14:18):
puts more into the game in terms of preparation and
his body than Lane Johnson. Uh, you know, Brandon Brooks
is a good guy that also consulted. Uh you know,
Toron Armstead from the New Orleans Saints, Andrew's people in
the New Orleans Saints. Eric mcoy from the New Orleans Saints. Um,
there's just a list goes on around bowl. Yeah, so
(14:42):
interesting enough. At one point we did have a great
deal of pro bowlers. Uh. You know when you look
at who oldline Masterminds draws in terms of Ryan Jensen,
Trent Brown, uh, Mitchell Schwartz, Toront some of the guys
that I mentioned, Uh, you know, and now we've got
our new class from the past two years that have
really come in and can start to takeular lead by storm,
(15:04):
like McKay becker from the Jets and get a doctor
from the Steelers, and you know Cam Clark from the Jets.
So we've got, you know, just a bunch of guys
that are going out there and believe it in what
we do. And it's the true mastermind principle when you
get one or two or more in a room with
the same common going extremelined success and it lowers the
(15:27):
chance for failure. And Napoleon Hill came up with this
concept eighty years ago, and it's nothing new. It's just
I did the work to go and find out how
these people got successful and how the extreamlined success, and
so I bought that to holdline mastermind. When you look
at you mentioned there that you worked with Connor Williams
pre draft, and I think there's been some discussion about this.
(15:50):
People have wondered, is he do you think he's more
of a tackle? Do you think he should be playing
tackle instead of guard? So here's the thing, um, pre draft,
how I evaluated Connor. I thought that he was going
to be a guard. UM. I thought that the way
he liked to play, and you can still even see
that now. He likes to play square, he likes to
(16:11):
play flat. He doesn't like a lot of space, um,
And so that really does project in the guard. Now,
you guys that followed me, you guys know I'm going
to soap boxes and Rent. I don't believe every tackle
automatic kicks in the guard. I believe that there's physical
traits um and their style of play that dictate that
projection inside and kind of just displayed some of those
(16:32):
as I talked to you about as far as wanting
to work in the short area. Uh, people need to
understand this. Connor going into his last couple of years
at Texas had two different oldline coaches. Okay, there's an
oldline coach change. Connor also dealt with an injury, Okay,
coming into the league. Now with years is for Connor,
(16:54):
there's a year three? How many oldline coaches as he
had a right three. So when you start to look
at that track record of a guy changing positions, UM,
you know it's gonna take time. We give up on
guys so quickly. Um, in the NFL, when you look
at the high school development cycle and the college development
(17:15):
cycle and even the Olympic development cycle, if you match
those out, it's four years. It's four years of full
intent development to where people end up realizing their potential
and uh, really performing at that pinnacle level. So if
you got a guy that is going through that much
adversity with changing coaches and injuries, and he's dealt with
(17:37):
injuries even as a pro, I mean you still got
to give that man a chance to develop. In my opinion,
because when guys are rehabing from injury and changing positions,
let's let's just take the injury aspect the injury aspect,
guys are working to get back on the field and rehab.
They're not getting better at their position at that point.
(17:58):
They're getting better in terms of their health and overall
strength and their ability to be available to the team.
But think about how much he missed in that time
in terms of actual development, and then you factor that
into having different coaches and makes it difficult when you're
spending a lot of your time rehab. So that's kind
of what's going on with Connor. I'm not ready to
(18:19):
give up on Connor yet. Uh. I think that he's
still um flashes some bright spots. I think that in
terms of overall technique and just overall philosophy and how
he plays can be cleaned up a little bit. Also
think that he still needs to continue to get stronger,
and I think that is possible um And I think
(18:39):
that some of those injuries has kind of halted his
ability to get functionally stronger. But I see improvement out
of them. I like to defer to people that are
smarter than me. And since you've seen so much of
these guys and obviously this position over the years, it's
no secret for the offensive line has been a week
link for the team this year. How much of a
(19:00):
drop off is there really in the absence of a
Tyrant Smith, of a Travis Frederick, of a Zach Martin.
What do they do that is so special? And can
we expect this new crop of guys to develop into
that at any point this season or even sniffet. So
here's the thing, Dallas Cowboys organization and Dallas Cowboys fans
(19:22):
have been spoiled over the years with a tremendous and
anomaly of offensive life. When you look at some of
those names that you just mentioned, you could very easily
say at the top of their games, all of those
guys that you mentioned were the pinnacle and the prototypes
of their position. When you talked about if you want
(19:43):
to build a left tackle, you thought about seven seven tyrants.
When you talk about you want to build a center, toughness, um,
competitive edge, smart, consistency, availability, it was Travis Fredick that
Martin is still the Goats center for guard. When you
look at the guys that have worn um, you know,
(20:04):
the Dallas Cowboy jersey and there's played guard. There's two
guys automatically now that come to mind, and that is
Larry Allen is that on and uh, you know Lil
Collins Loo Collins interesting enough, played left tackle a l
s U kicked in the guard and then end up
learning a new position at right tackle. And I think
(20:24):
the last two years we've really seen quote unquote, you know,
an awakening of how good Lael is. So would you
take those guys and you lose those guys, there's gonna
be a major drop off because those guys are arguably
the top two and three at their position, respectively in
the entire NFL. So when you lose that, for one thing,
(20:48):
when you go across the NFL, there's not a whole
lot of guys like that even starting in the league.
And then when you take those starting that starting layer away,
there's not a lot of valuable backups that are able
to come in immediately and start and play at an
effective and a high level. And I think we've seen
that over the years when tyrants had to miss games,
(21:08):
I think we've seen that. Luckily, you know, when Travis
was out, I think Joe Louely did a tremendous job
fell on hid him. You know, you were able to
win still with Joe Luan, he was not going to
be Travis Frederick. But Travis Frederick was Travis Frederick was
sperm at the head quote quote unquote, you know, like
there there's nobody that's gonna be him. So with that
(21:29):
thing said, I think a lot of times people panic,
and you know, they have these expectations that are lofty
and granted when you're in there as a professional football player,
it's all about results. It doesn't matter if you're the
backup or the starter. But at the end of the day,
the guys that are playing right now are not to
the level of those starters. And they were back up
(21:49):
for a reason and they were available for a reason.
But my whole point that I want to get over
to this is don't let your eyes fool you. The
guys that War seventy one at right tackle in MYO
Colls and seventy at guard seventy two and Travis Fredrick
seventy seven and even when Ron Larry was there and
you know, the War sixty five, those guys were borderline
(22:12):
very good to elite players across the board respectively, and
it was a reason why they had the number one
offensive line for you know, two to three years. Um,
So losing those guys are tremendous blow because you built
your team, you built your philosophy on having those studs
up front, and when you lose one, it's like, okay,
you gotta plug in. You lose two, it's like, oh,
(22:33):
you lose three. Uh. Now to night, we saw a
Dallas Cowboys old line that was unrecognizable and it really
hit go ahead. I was gonna say, is can that
explain then why we've seen such a drop off from
Ezekie Elliott when you don't have the confidence in that
offensive line. Is it fair for people to criticize the
fact that he hasn't had those a hundred yard games.
(22:55):
I think it's easy to look at the the box
score and say, well, we you know, his outs aren't
what they are. But I mean again, I like to
defer to people that are smarter than me. Could that
be the explanation of it? As simple as it might be,
You just don't have that wall blocking for you right now?
Absolutely well, when we're talking about you know, actually getting
(23:16):
yards and you know opening hose and the continuity often
some line as a position of five individuals with one
common gup, you know, five as one so to speak,
So continuity in that group of those five guys across
the board is very important, okay for the group itself,
but furthermore, continuity and understanding how certain guys are going
(23:38):
to play in the timing and setting up blocks on
cabo blocks coming off to the second level. Those are
all things that facts not only see but read and fear.
So having a different lineup in there every couple of
games and having new guys that may not be as
powerful at the point of the chad definitely changes up
the timing and the flow in which Zeke is getting. Uh.
(23:59):
You know, his work came with that being said, of course,
Zeke's got to do a better job of taking care
of football when he does have those opportunities. But you know,
as he showed, he's very accountable for getting better in
terms and owning you know, some of the mistakes that
he made. But absolutely it impacts the run game and
even the protections tremendously. We're not having the same five
(24:21):
guys in there and then having a new five guys
in there. Um. With that being said, it's still a
really good thing that Zack Martin is in there and
he's healthy and playing still at an elite level. Uh.
One of the things that Zach is really good at.
It's always been in great position, being able to finish.
(24:42):
He's probably the best recover hartist I've seen in the game,
which leads him to just not getting beat. I think
you've seen the last couple of weeks. Cam Irving is
a very valuable back up at left tackle. He's played
pretty decently and held up well. He's not gonna be tiring.
Nobody expects him to be. But in terms of what
Dallas has had in the past, in terms of backups,
(25:03):
I think cam Irving is a is a guy that's
played a lot of football. Is with the Chiefs last
year had an extended role with them with some injury,
So he's played some football and has had some experience. Um.
I think Tyler Beotis is very promising. I think that
you've got something there with Beoti. Smart kid, tough, um
and it's gonna be I think, very good for a
(25:23):
long time. The cow and Terence Still, you know, I
think Still is a guy that right now he was
thrusted into the lineup sooner than he needed to be.
He still must work on his consistency in his past
set set into his spot, not overseting invitement inside counter
move and then also needs to continue to get better
(25:43):
with his hands. One team learns how to not only
be consistent with his pass set and making sure that
his are winning the fight, he's gonna be in better
position to more effectively use his hands, and that's something
that takes time. UM. I think still also leads to
UH improving his overall functional strength. That way, he holds
up to some of those bull rushers that guys are
(26:04):
liking the state. But he showed some flashes and some promises,
but he's not a guy that anybody expected to play
this year. So with him being thrust it into the lineup,
it's a thin line because you like those guys getting
game experience, but you also worry about UH, you know,
putting those guys in too soon, and it definitely could
take its toll on you mentally when week after week
(26:26):
after week you feel like you're not having success. So,
you know, my advice to any of those guys, it
was just keep shipping away, find something to get better
at every single practice, take it serious by serious, moment
by moment, and before you know it, UM, you'll start
to see improvement in the game. And just the overall
fielding the conference for in which they play with, and
(26:47):
they still got a guy like Zack Martin mckelin on
the still you know, got Cam Herving who's playing a
lot of football. Um. You know again, like I said,
Connor is still checking out and figuring out his game.
So it's not it's been in the past. But at
the same time, all is not lost. It's uh, it's interesting.
(27:08):
That's the thing I think most people have felt like, Okay,
there's a lot of things that have been outside of
your control. You know, Tyron Smith getting hurt, Lyle Collins
getting hurt, Zach Martin getting hurt, Travis Frederick or Tying,
you know, things like that. Um, I think when the
season started and Tyron Smith was healthy, and then it's okay, um,
you've got Cam Irving, you signed him to be your
swing tackle, and then you start with Terrence Steele. Okay,
(27:29):
Cam Erving gets hurt, but Brandon Knights there and you
Brandon Knights started games for you at tackle last year,
and then you don't go to Brandon Knight and then
you go, okay, well, I mean you've got Greg Snatt
and Jordan's Mills in your building now and these are
veterans who have played before and then you've got Okay,
we've seen Zack Martin bump out to right tackle and
play there, and you've got a top one pick that
can slide in a guard at Connor McGovern. Are you
(27:50):
do you find it interesting just from the outside, um
that they have seemingly been so committed to steal with
There's been some options that it would seem like are
some options within the building that you could go with
while Steel has been struggling as much as he has. Yeah,
you know, but I think a big factor is uh
this as well. For one thing, I don't know how
(28:11):
the coaching staff used different personnel. I don't really know
this coaching staff too well. What I do know of
Joe Philman is um, he's a guy that demands a
lot in terms of execution mentally. So though we may
think that some of these guys are valuable options or
valuable options um at the tackle spot, if they're not
picking up the concepts, they're not gonna play for Joe Philben.
(28:32):
So that's one thing in which we see the physical part,
and we know what the physical part, especially with a
guy like uh, you know, George Mills, who has started
a ton of football games. But if he's not picking
up the playbook in enough time, then you know he's
not going to see the field because most coaches will
rather take a lesser athlete in talent versus a guy
(28:53):
that they take a guy that they can trust, and
it is not going to have uh, you know, the
mental errors or the mrs sign it over a guy
that is going to be physically dominating. I was gonna
mess up all the time, and they put the offense
of the bad decision. It's a gift take, but you
know that would be some of the thought process behind.
While some of these guys aren't getting the opportunity, it
(29:14):
could be that they're just not picking up the concepts
and the playbook as well as coach wants them to.
Any suggestions now that we're just learning that Andy Dalton
is not dealing with concussion protocol this week, but he
is now on the reserved COVID list. And to Nucci
against the Steelers, I assume you watched the game on
(29:39):
Sunday night. Was there anything that stood out to you
that that might lend itself to helping him out a
little bit back there? I mean that they tried with,
They tried with those quick throws, they tried with the
quick screen game. Not having stand back, how do you
help that kid out against the Steelers defense. Honestly, it's
(30:01):
gonna be rough because what the Steaters do well is
they're able to get after you with their base defense,
but then they're also able to disguise stuff really well.
So the Steaters will line up and give you a
bunch of different looks where they spend the wheels late
on the back end with their secondary. When they're bringing pressure,
they're saying false pressure. So it makes it extremely difficult
on a young quarterback to kind of get a feeling
(30:22):
to read the factor that end with the offensive line
that isn't um you know, to that standard in terms
of completely starting again, You've got guys there that are
played now. But you know, communication is going to be
key upfront. I think it's going to be important for
the young quarterback to not try to do too much.
It looked like on Sunday night that the game was
(30:43):
moving fast for him, but it looked like he was
moving faster in a panic. You know, you know, he
didn't have that complix you could tell people say happy
Feever were seeing ghosts. Um. It was just you could
tell like he was kind of out of his element.
He wasn't competent UM and with his ability to really
get the job done, UM, I think with the coaching
(31:05):
staff is gonna really have to do against this defense
is trying to come out and establish the run early
on UM. Even though Pittsburgh is showed in an eight
ability to take away the run. UM saw that two
weeks ago against Tennessee. UM. They did a great job
against Derrick Henry, really great job. But they have to
have some semblance of a run game, whether it's the
(31:27):
quick screen game to the outside, you know, making sure
that Pittsburgh is able to run. UM, whether it's setting
up zeke on you know, some of the screens, the
running back screens. But they're gonna have to do something
a lot of play action that kind of protect him
and get Nucci out on the edge. He is a
good athlete, so he can get him outside the pocket
and throwing the run. That could work to some advantage
(31:47):
and maybe hit some big shots downfield. But again it
comes back to trying to really establish the run game
and not give uh and not really give away the ball.
Deep into the territory and then also try to play
a plock management. We're a fan of Danucci on this
show we had in this offseason. I'm tell you, I'm
nervous for I'm nervous, I know. And that's and you know,
(32:10):
to that point about protecting the man's life and making
sure that he doesn't get crushed by t J Watt
out there. Um, when you when you look at if
you were, you know, working on this game plan and
you saw, you know, the the skill that the Cowboys
have a receiver and some of the issues that they've
had pass blocking. I mean, if you were in there
as the offensive line coach, would you be hammering home
(32:32):
the idea of, hey, look, let's uh, you know, if
we want to try and push the ball downfield at all, like,
let's try some max protect stuff. Let's keep aid in.
We got these receivers that are so talented, you know,
we can send two of them out there and try
and win on their routes and see if we can
hit something. I mean, would you be looking at some
max protect options with how talented Pittsburgh's pass arches and
how depleted Dallas's offensive line is, how many Yeah, I know,
(32:57):
I know, but that's the thing it was. That's the
thing I'm saying, change it. Instead of just quick throws
to save them, sometimes some max protect and see if
he can get downfield. Who knows. So here's my here's
my thing with max to protect. And it goes to
the same thing with UM when you look at people
and say why didn't they give such such help or
you know, if it's not a part of your offense
in terms of actual packages and scheming, it's difficult to
(33:20):
just put that stuff in on game day. So if
we're looking at game plan type stuff, I think your
max protect has to be a part of UM. Your
play action pass looks h your your run action looks UM.
If you have some type of r p O s,
they have to be a part of that as well. UM.
That way, it's not dead getaways and hey we're gonna
(33:40):
max protects and two out of the route. Um, it
looks like that you're lining up to play the ball,
but then I mean to run the ball. But then
that all goes back to trying to at least get
some type of run game going early. That way, it
allows you to get those run actions in maybe get
on the edge and pop them down the field and
then be in the situation to be able to match
to protect you know, maybe a big formation and then
(34:03):
get you know, one on one matchup and man protection
now to field. UM. So it's just I think it's
all still predicated very much on being able to have
some early success with some type of run game UM
that allows you to be able to open up things,
so to speak. I'm curious for your thoughts. We haven't
talked about. This is one of the only guys we
haven't talked about yet. And this is a guy that
I am a big fan of. And that's Uh. He's
(34:26):
currently on I R. And that's Brandon Knight, Uh, the
undrafted rookie out of Indiana last year who was forced
into some game action. So when I see him, like
I see obviously guy who I mean, you can see
the play strength issues are there in time, he has
some issues with bulrushes and things like that. But to me,
it's like, okay, but the dude like he's a good
(34:46):
enough athlete that he gets to his spot and then
he fights like he's blue collar bulldog Doug Free type.
To me, what do you see when you look at
Brandon Knight, And do you think he has a future
is either a swing tackle or if the offensive line
is is right enough that you know, hey, in some circumstances,
that might be a guy that could be your right
tackle in the future or something like that. Do you
think he has that sort of ability? Well, Brenda and
(35:08):
I to me, everything you just said it was a
hundred percent correct. Um. He was a guy that went
out there and he didn't look like that he was
out of place. He was a guy that had success
um against you know, seventy eight percent of the guys.
Some of those neat guys he didn't struggle with, but
most people are gonna do be in that situation. He
fought his butt off. He was always in good position. Uh.
(35:28):
And so you saw it with him. He's a viable
option to have out there as a swing tackle or
even you know, like an extra tight end, a type blocker. Uh.
And you know, some jumble packages. But he's a guy
that I think that you can still continue to develop
and really lean on in terms of a valuable asset
to a team as a backup player. Um. It's interesting
(35:50):
enough because a couple of weeks ago, when he got hurt,
he got hurt, he got rolled up extremely bad. And
then I'm pretty sure he finished the game. And when
he got hurt, and when he got hurt and wrote up,
I saw it looked bad. And then he kind of
hopped up and continued to play us out. Maybe he
wasn't that bad. Next morning, you know, you saw he
had surgery. So that kind of shows you the type
(36:11):
of toughness that the kid has. Um And you're not
gonna win because of Brandon Night, but you can win
with him um at one of the positions. Um. So
I like some of the stuff that I've seen, and
I think that again, he's just a guy that continued
that needs to continue to devote. So when you look
at as guys look forward to the draft and stuff,
(36:31):
you know, if people are already going, hey we might
have a top five pick here. So hey penay sewell
you're you're somebody we could look at. Or as I'm
calling forward behind me, Rashaan Slater, who I saw put
Chase Young in the dirt about three times when he
played Ohio State last year. Um. When when you look
it as it's a great last name Slater. Um. Now
(36:51):
when you look at I know that you're you've actually
already started working with Rashaan's later Sewell and Slater, two
guys who opted out of the season. Um Slater, the
tackle from Northwestern. First, just tell us a little bit
about Rashaan Slater, what kind of player he is? And
I mean, is he a uh, cornerstone type of left tackle?
Is he the type of guy you can build an
offensive line around? You think? Yeah, absolutely, So you know,
(37:13):
Rashan went to North questern He's a very smart guy. Um,
very cerebral, but just very consistent, very consistent, consistent as
a person, consistent as a worker, and really consistent as
a player. Has a large skill set are already in
terms of what he's able to do with his set,
what he's able to do with his hands, his time,
(37:35):
and his knowledge of leverage is really impressive. Um. And
then the thing that I think that most people don't
know about him is he's creakishly strong. He's extremely strong.
That is the biggest thing I had to ask you
because I was with you last year watching you work out.
Cameron Clark, Sadique, Charles McKay, Beckton and there monsters in
(37:56):
size and that was the one thing I was going
to ask you about is because when you look at
showns later, just you see him, you're like, he doesn't
look like some of the big maulers. He doesn't look
like he's built like that. But then you see on
the field, it's like, man, how's he putting guys in
the dirt like that? Then if he's not strong, he
is put together, I think better than what people think.
His lower hat extremely large and muscular legs. Uh, he's
(38:20):
got a video that he's showed me. He front squatted
five or five or like five five reps um and
he's just he's just an extremely strong player and strong
in the correct area. Strong with his rotation anti rotation. Uh,
really good. You know overall core strength, upper back is
(38:41):
really strong, of course, legs strong, upper body really strong.
So um to me when you pair, Uh, you know
some of the physical ability that he has in terms
of the way he's able to move. He reminds me
of how he moves through armstead. He's very fluid with
how he moves. Are light but heavy when they need
(39:03):
to be what he needs to go get somebody really
has that really blew it set. But then you can
aggressive set get his hands on guys and in the
fight immediately has ridiculous top end range in terms of
get into his spot and they able to run guys
over the top of the pocket and even be in
position to finish guys at the top of the pocket,
(39:23):
as you saw against Ohio State with Chake jam So,
Rashawn's a guy that many people are already starting to him, Oh,
he's gonna have to move inside. If I'm a team,
I'm not moving him inside like and you will see
it the first day when he lies up that tack,
when he gets to the top of his set and
he's able to finish at the point of attack at
(39:43):
the top is set, teams are gonna go, oh yeah,
that's a left tackle. Um, So that's not a guy
that I'm willing to move inside. That being said, he
absolutely could move inside with with you know, little to
know Hiccup at all, But he's a guy is going
to be a really good player for a long time.
(40:04):
And what about Penney Sewell, there that's another guy that
you've seen a lot just from working on the Joe
More Reward, the the annual award for Best Offensive Line.
You know, I know you've seen him and we talked
to Daniel Jeremiah a couple of weeks ago, and uh,
you know, he had a lot of great things to
say about pen A. Um, well, what are your thoughts
on him as a player, and uh where he might
fit in as a sort of a corner stone and
(40:25):
somebody that you can build an offensive line around, similar
to h Rashaan Slater. Definitely, pay is a physical freak.
He's strong, he's big, he's athletic, and he's nasty with
his demeanor. Just a physical mindset. To me, when you
get those guys that are that kind of they've got
it all and they've got that mentality to want to
(40:47):
put people in the dirt and finish them, typically you're
gonna have a really good player, pro player on your
hands immediately. Um, there's some things I think that uh,
you know, when they will clean up this off season
that will make him even better. I think just simple
stuff like, uh, you know, hand placement, overall usage of hands.
(41:08):
He'll clean that up and he will become very very
dangerous in past protection um to a lot of people,
especially with the type of strength at length that he has. Um,
you know, he's a guy that can move the point
of attack and get to the top of the past
set and really be effective and dominating. Um, you know,
really taking over a game. So um, Pine, it's fun
(41:30):
to watch. I look forward to eventually working with Pine. Um.
You know for Cowboys fans. He's got the same agent
as uh Tyring Smith and be honest, so um it
should be encouraging. You know, Pine is gonna be in
a situation and be placed around the right people, um
to help his development, especially during this time where we've
(41:52):
got this extra time for him to work. So um.
You know, those are two guys that I'm really excited
about and I think that they will be tremendous pros
moving forward. And and here's the one last crazy note
on Piney Sewell is that he put out film that
people were saying, oh, that's the top five player as
a teenager. He has yet to play as a twenty
year old. He just turned twenty earlier in October. So
(42:15):
we're talking about a guy who's only played football the
furthest he's played was at nineteen years old, and he
was putting out top five film in Oregon. I mean,
he's only going to get better. Yeah, I asked you
a question about that. Though, what is going to be
the challenge for you guys. Scouts have talked to us
about this, being able to really assess these players when
they're not allowed on campus this year, especially as an
(42:37):
offensive lineman. Is that one of those guys that you
need to physically see their strength and their size in
person and you know their football like you because you
want those really smart guys in the offensive line. Is
that going to be the area where they're going to
feel challenged a little bit different than skills players. So
interesting enough, there's two answers to this. When you are
(42:58):
Pine and when you are Sean, it's not gonna matter
because you can turn on the tape you know exactly
what the heck you're getting with those two guys. But
for other guys, it does absolutely create a challenge, and
I think we kind of got a glimpse into that. Um,
you know this past combining cycle where you know, most
of the pro days were eliminated, all the visits were eliminated.
(43:19):
It's so teams relied heavily on agents and guys like
myself to really give them credible uh feedback. Um, you know,
there were a lot of teams and a lot of coaches,
a lot of gms that constantly wanted me to send
tape and uh, you know, like of our work acts
just kind of seeing when guys were um you know,
(43:41):
and then uh you know, like the boardwork type stuff
was very important. As you mentioned, they want to see
how these guys think, how these guys process. Um, So
it's gonna face we're gonna be faced with some challenges. UM,
but the challenges that we're gonna be faced with this
next combine cycle, UM, we'll be better prepared because we've
(44:03):
kind of gone through it already. You know, when you
when you're caught kind of in the win and not
knowing what to expect, you know, that's when leadership qualities
come in immediately and you say, okay, we gotta go
with the skid. And one thing that I know, especially
being a leader, especially getting a developer, UM, when adversity
(44:23):
and a change of schedule in the shift happens, you
gotta innovate, you gotta take action, you gotta kind of
go with the skid. And that's kind of what we
did with a lot of these guys. Um, you know,
because there was a for instance, Kevin Dotson. Kevin Dotson
was an All American and we've had a lot yet.
Um no combined invite. Pro day was canceled, but worked
his tell off in his tape. It forced teams to
(44:46):
go back and look at the state. He was taken
in the fourth round and he started three games this
year for the Pittsburgh Steelers. And then phenomena, that's a
guy that again he had no combined invite, no real product,
so they had to trust to take and trust uh,
you know, the information that they were getting from from sources.
But I think we're gonna be better prepared for the
(45:06):
one draft. No matter what happens. It's gonna be interesting
to to really see what happens at the Comboy is
that that the combine goes into actual bubble because we've
offended and we know that it's set up that we
could very easily be a bubble. But I think what
we may end up seeing is that it is a bubble.
Um there's not gonna be outside access allowed probably and
(45:28):
they're gonna have those guys there, you know, four to
five days and really putting them through the paces there
to kind of get intimate look to see who these
guys are. Uh, we've already seen the Shrine game cancel. Uh,
it'll be interesting to see talking to Jim Maggie Um
what the Senior Bowl looks like this week. It could
be that instead of a week, it's you know, ten
days or maybe two weeks. Who knows. I'm not sure
(45:50):
what Jim is gonna come up with. But one thing
I do know is some of these opportunities for showcases,
whether it is at the Senior Bowl, whether it is
at the Coby Um, guys are going to be able
to are going to need to be ready, to be
prepared to perform and put their best foot forward. But
I think for us and training guys and even team
(46:12):
teams will be better prepared to handle this this next
cycle around versus what we just went through this last year.
Last question for you here, Duke, because I am curious
and I know you are all about the complete package
with guys. Like I said, you you do all the
weight training with them. You you look at the the
full physical package and everything like that. I know some
people are curious about man Tyrn Smith's getting up there
(46:34):
and and you know he's had injuries coming up now,
but there's been less talk about the Lyle Collins injury.
And I think that's interesting given the fact that it
is a hip injury, and I know that hip fluidity
is such a big thing, you know, with so many positions,
but including the offensive line. Um, how important is that
recovery going to be for Lyle? How important do you
(46:55):
think that injury is? How seriously should people be taking
the Hey, look, you know this is this is a
serious thing that's going to take some care for him
to rehab and come back from because you know that
that hip movement is really important for the guy out
there right tackle. Yeah, it's tremendously important. But to my understanding,
based upon like the limited knowledge I have about the injury,
it's something that he can a hunterd percent come back
(47:15):
and be ready to um to play and play at
a high level with with rehab, with movement prep, with
sports mad and just continue to monitor it and rehab
the right way, not being forced, Uh, you know, really
to to be on the timeline. I think the beautiful
thing we have right now for him in terms of recovery,
it's time. So I've got most confidence that Lael will
(47:39):
be resilient and returned back to original form um to
what he was And uh, probably some aspects maybe even
a little better. I think that with the injury like that,
it is probably something that is systemic. Is probably something
that had probably been lingering that he kind of uh
just like blocked out, and it was probably limiting him
(47:59):
and his abilities prior to just this year. And camp
probably saw some of it last year on tape. A
lot of times just function runs up heel, so a
lot of times. Uh, something so simple as an ankle
injury which Lion has had um can affect the knee
and the hit alignment. UM. So you know, just looking
(48:19):
for him to get that get healthy. I think that
Cowboys fans will be pleased to know that. I think
he'll be bad and better than ever. Before I let
you go, I do want to follow up on that.
Cowboy fans have been fairly relentless as it relates to
not feeling like Laales showed up to camp in shape
and then there was this injury. Any chance that with
(48:40):
COVID and you know, if there was some sort of
lingering injury from last year, that maybe he didn't address
any chance that because of COVID. I think a lot
of us were having a hard time kind of working
through that that there was sort of a compound effect
of that, getting to the facility and the rehab that
he needed, getting the access to the workouts that he needed,
(49:03):
and then when you get out actually there on the
line and you're actually doing offensive line work, which is
very different than any individual working out that you might do.
That it was kind of a perfect storm for that
injury and the way it went down. Um. I mean
you could say, I mean that could be you know,
that could be realistic. But UM, I think that what
(49:24):
you heard about him not being in shape, I think
he was a little heavy. But as far as in shape,
I think he was in shape. I think he was
in shape. I think he was ready to play. Um.
What I think though, is that that injury was around
um longer and he just tried to work through it
and it got to the point where he couldn't work
through it anymore. And so that's what really became the issue.
(49:44):
And that happens to a lot of I mean, Sean
Lee was a player who was trying through his injury.
Great example one thing that I've learned because there's so
much that Dak Prescott. Yeah, there's so much that fans
don't see. Um, you know, they don't see until it
becomes available to them. But um, there's a lot of
these guys that are playing with and working through various
(50:07):
ailments that they just try to compartmentalize and um, you know,
leave on the back burner. But it gets to the
point where when your quality of life and you're just
your overall effectiveness is not there, and then you've got
to make a business decision to do what's best to you.
And I think that's kind of what you saw with
l uh And I think to some extent that kind
(50:29):
of happened with the tiring. I mean, we've been well
aware that he's had issues with stingers and next and
things like that, and I think it just got to
a point where he was like, I can't go anymore,
you know, and stuff like that happens. Um. One thing
about it is on the offensive line of the NFL,
injury is almost an you know, And I mean, everybody's
(50:53):
gonna get hurt, everybody's gonna have something, and these guys
are going to try to play as long as possible.
I've got another on another team that first week of
the season toward both ligaments and the stump on his
right hand end up having a cast on it. Um
played five weeks and then they played Monday night football
and head into a body. That next morning he was
(51:16):
in surgery at five am having surgery on on the thumb.
Came back the next week with the cast on and played.
You know. So, Um, you know, the timing of some
of these things sucks, and me as a fan understand
it sucks for me being a professional in the business. Um,
(51:36):
it happens, man, especially on the a lie. It's a
it's a violent, it's a physical game. And as I said, um,
injuries are have a hundred percent break in this business,
especially at that position. So it's it's got to happen. Um,
But I've got again the utmost confidence that will come
back and be ready to go. Well. Hopefully we appreciate,
(51:59):
we appreciate at you just your insight, because like I said,
I think a lot of us, you know, offensive line,
I feel like because one of those positions, it just
looks like a bunch of guys kind of guarding the
quarterback up front. I don't think people realize sort of
the intricac season ands that go into it, uh, and
what makes a good offensive lineman. So when we get
someone here that that is what they do day in
(52:19):
and day out. As you said, it's your lane. It's
nice sort of getting your insight and kind of your thought.
But it does sound like the Cowboys need Cowboys fans
at least need to recalibrate their expectations as it relates
to this new crop of offensive lineman the absence of
some of these uh guys that bordered on elite if
they weren't elite, And especially been to Nucci this week,
(52:40):
who has to deal with that. Yeah, And and they
need to start learning up on sugar Land, Texas his
own Rashaan Slater and and you can do that. You
can keep up with his pre draft process just by
following Duke on Twitter at Big Duke fifty and on
Instagram at the Big Duke fifty. He is the offensive
line renaissance ban with oh masterminds and pre draft training
(53:01):
and everything else. And so you definitely need to keep
up with him to keep up with all things offensive
line with the Cowboys and the NFL. So, Duke, we
appreciate you so much, man, Jane, Bobby, thank you for
having me. I know we've been trying to do this
for a while. Our schedules evolve been all over the place.
That's kind of been a theme. Um, you know, last
words to you guys, um, you know, stay safe out there. Um.
(53:24):
And I think we all can do our part to
be the individual change we want to see. Lead where
you are, Lead where you are, all right, So I
guess some perspective is what we got there on this
offensive line. I don't know if I feel any more encouraged,
not enough the fans to either after hearing a guy
that knows a thing or two about what an offensive
line should look like. But I think a lot of
(53:46):
people are in agreement that with this current record, there's
been no team that has ever gone to the playoffs.
That's correct, right, Bobby, I've got that stat right, sure,
I think so. I'm not a hundred present positive, but
I believe you're right. I will say I will say
that this is the But if we start seeing more
COVID shutdowns and we see this NEWFF, there could be
(54:09):
at another road, uh for the Cowboys, Bobby. So I
definitely think that's interesting. But at least again we are
trying to manage expectations for the fans. That's the theme
for manage expectations,
Hello, Boys and Girls, Welcome in to the Boys and
Girl Podcast with Cowboys NFL Network reporter Jane Slater and
NFL Network producer Bobby Bell. Cowboys Community with the inside
scoop on the Dallas Cowboys, now coming straight to you
(00:22):
from the Lone Star State. Here's Jane and Bobby. Well,
the COVID is finally hit the Dallas Cowboys, and we've
seen it throughout the league and really as we start
looking at cities and states across the US, as we
start getting in to these falling winter months, we are
seeing the COVID cases rise. And it looks like Andy
Dalton will not be playing against the Steelers this weekend,
(00:45):
not because he's still in concussion protocol, but he has
been moved to the COVID reserve list, which maybe it's
a little bit of a blessing in disguise that he
goes into concussion protocol. He's not been out there in
these huddles. Um. He has been in quarterback meetings. Last
update I saw, which we're recording this on Tuesday, election day.
We have no idea who won yet. By the way,
(01:06):
when this comes out, if you're please forgive us, we're
not neglecting the biggest story in the country. We just
don't know right now when we're recording, um, but you
know when this when we were recording this. As of
this point, McCarthy said, the last time that he had
seen Andy Dalton was Saturday in the quarterback meeting room. Um.
That he did not make the trip to Philly, so
he was not in that incubator of an airplane, and
(01:27):
he wasn't with the team on the road. And and
so those are all positive things, I guess, and and
I'm sure we'll learn more about who all was exposed
and what sorts of actions the Cowboys are taking to
keep this under control. But as I said, there may
not have been a better time for this to happen
than with a guy who was in concussion protocol and
a guy who wasn't mixing with the rest of the
players the last week or so. And keep in mind, too,
(01:50):
we don't know if he actually has it or if
he came in contact with a family member that had it. Uh. Again,
as we are recording this on a Tuesday, it's new information.
But uh, it's enough that he is now obviously on
that reserve list. So there's going to be some quarantine
for him, and they're moving forward to Denucci, which means
Garrett Gilbert, right, he would be the Garret Gilbert is
(02:13):
the backup, which I gotta wonder because you know, Jerry
seemed so certain that, uh, that Dalton was going to
be ready to play this weekend in terms of through
the concussion protocol. So it is interesting to me. I
got to look back and figure out when they signed
Cooper Rush, because Cooper Rush had to go through COVID
protocol and he wasn't going to be able to be
available until this week, which made you think he was
(02:35):
gonna Dalton was gonna be out for Pittsburghcause why I'll
signed Cooper Rush and have him go through COVID protocol
if he was going to be So it does make
me wonder sort of what led to the Cooper Rush
sign it. But you do have three guys here now,
Cooper Rush and Garrett Gilbert and Bend Nucci, and it's
it's a lot of think in Dallas, we've seen that
you can never have enough quarterbacks and Tony Remo, Kellen Moore,
(02:57):
Deak Prescot. I mean, think about how many years we
went in Dallas. I remember the year they decided to
go to quarterbacks and it was like the first time
and forever because they've always carried the three. Uh. This
year sort of feels like that year where it's like
you can't find enough, and especially I think they've got
to carry a few more quarterbacks this year for this
very recent possibility that someone could end up with COVID
(03:20):
UM and then of course you've got to isolate you know,
different position groups the way that they're doing things this year.
So the league is being very very careful as it
relates to COVID and of course you have to have
too negative tests uh in order to rejoin the team.
My quick question for you if Dalton is out because
of you know, this COVID issue and everything else. We
(03:42):
all love Bendannucci here, friend of the show, a really
good guy. Um, do you think there's any chance the
Cowboys look at this and go, ah, that was so
rough against the Eagles. Which this is our first time
talking since that rough Eagles game, But that was so
rough against the Eagles that maybe we should look at
giving Garret Gilbert a shot or getting him up speed er.
Do you think they just rolled with Denucci? I'd like
(04:02):
to see Denucci because Pittsburgh is his hometown, and so
you know, you would get the chance to play his
hometown Steelers. And I think that'd just be nice for him.
And in a year of not nice stories, well you
and I privately said if I was the Cowboys, I
would have rolled out with been Dnucci this week. Period. Uh,
let Andy Dalton get another week where he can rest up,
(04:23):
and then we've got the bye week. And but we've
we privately, we privately said that for a reason because
now we look like loons after how things went against Philadelphia.
But who got to continue here in thirteen against the
Steelers and he's lost seventh straight And started thinking, how
yet meaningful playing experience for the rookie, And Mike McCarthy
(04:43):
said that that's a position he wants a strength. In
other words, he wants to develop. And what better to
develop this kid than put him in a visional game
on Sunday Night football and then put him against an
undefeated seven and Pittsburgh Steelers team led by a guy
like Mike Tomlin. And he got Ben Roethlisberger coming in
here with guys like James Conner, j Smith, Schuster, Eric Ebron.
(05:04):
I mean go down the list. So offensive firepower, you're
gonna need your defense to do what they did against
the Eagles, and then some, and then some and then some,
because I think slowing down this offense is going to
be really really I believe the Steelers um still lead
the NFL and quarterback hits as well from a defense.
(05:25):
This year, through three games, the most Dac has ever
been hit in a game, I believe was nine. If
it's not nine, it's ten. Through three weeks this year,
Pittsburgh was averaging the eleven quarterback hits a game. They
were averaging every game more than Dak had ever been
hit in a game. And we've seen Dak take some
pretty big hits before. And so it is that that's
a defense that will get after you. That's a veteran
(05:47):
defensive coaching staff that I'm sure it's gonna go. Hmm.
Let's see, how can we, uh you know, make things
as difficult as possible on this young quarterback and as
confusing as possible, and let's take advantage of some of
these holes in the offensive line. And it has been
a really bad at offensive line, and a lot of it,
of course due to injuries and uh you know, rough
combinations and some unforeseen things and some some things that
(06:07):
you know, maybe they've shot themselves in the foot a
little bit. Uh. Cough cough, Terrance Steel cough cough. But uh,
that is why I think that this week I was
really glad. We we've tried for several weeks now to
talk to Duke many Weather, who is the offensive line Guru.
He is the founder of O O L Masterminds, trains
a number of guys leading up to the draft. Uh,
and we're gonna get his perspective today on the Cowboys
(06:29):
offensive line and some of these draft prospects who Cowboys
fans may start learning about as we get closer to
draft on some of these tackle prospects like Pina Swell
and Rashawn s Later. So, uh, we now welcome Duke
many Weather. Joining us now is Duke many Weather. He
is an offensive line skills trainer, UH, the offensive line guru.
(06:50):
He is the founder of Offensive Line O L Masterminds.
He also trains a number of draft prospects UH leading
up to the draft, working very close with a number
of them at Michael Johnson before him at Center in
the Dallas area. And uh he's worked closely with a
number of the Cowboys players over the years and and
has a really good uh feel for what good O
line play looks like. And so with so many questions
(07:11):
about the Cowboys O line and questions about the future
of it, and uh, you know what type of players
they may be looking at in the draft, there's nobody
better to talk to than Duke. And you can follow
him on Twitter at Big Duke fifty and on Instagram.
It's just a little different. It's at the Big Duke fifty. Duke,
how you doing doing well? Thanks for having me. Guys,
absolutely really excited have you. I'm curious you know, Uh,
(07:33):
I believe you played OH line at Humboldt State, right,
and so I know that that's kind of how you
got your start, and uh you you do. It's interesting
if people to look at your path. For those that
understand the draft process and understand the combined training process,
you're you're kind of a unicorn Duke that there there's
not a lot of guys doing the strength program portion
(07:54):
and the skills training. And yet I know that's you
do both of those things. And so uh talk a
little bit of I guess about how you got into
training offensive linemen, like how that path came to be
and a little bit of the work that you do
with guys. Yeah, you know what, where other people normally
grow up and come up playing different positions, I was
an offensive defensive lineman my entire life, from Pop Warner
(08:15):
all the way through high school, uh college in a
brief center Arena football league. So offensive line has really
been my passion and has been my lane that I've
always really stated. Um, I was undersized offensive lineman in
terms of height. You know, I'm six ft tall. Um.
But some of the things I knew I can control
early on was how hard I worked my preparation in
(08:37):
terms of strength training, my preparation in terms of the
mental part, knowing what I was doing, the techniques and
all that type of stuff. So I took that type
of stuff to heart, um, during my time at high
school and in college and became really a student of
the game and understanding what I can control. My parents
always told me, hey, listen, life isn't gonna be fair,
(08:57):
but I'll tell you what, if you work your tel off,
you know, you will start to get to where you
want to be. And I've just kind of kept that
mentality all the way through UM. So I went to
Humboldt State, played at Humbolt State, had that brief state
in Arena football, immediately got into coaching after I was
kept from the Arena Football League UM, and then from
there UM I was able to do something pretty unique
(09:18):
where I wore two hats. So I was an assistant
strength coach at Humbolt State under the legendary Drew Peterson,
and then in the afternoons, I had my own old
line room at College of the Redwoods Junior College, which
was about thirty minutes south down the road from Humbolt State.
And so for three years about back and forth being
an assistant strength coach and then being an offensive line
(09:39):
coach and run game coordinator and just kind of taking
everything that I had learned, and I tried to read everything,
listen to everything learned from other people in terms of
offensive line play, and I started to develop my own
philosophies are whole line UM. One of the things I
think really helped me was the learning process in the
background that I had and was learning and honing and
(10:02):
strength and conditioning and how the body worked and how
everything was a system. Allowed me to more effectively coached
offensive life from a biomechanic standpoint and mechanical advantage. So
when we were talking about certain techniques that may have
been you know historically, uh, you know, just kind of
passed down. I was always the critical thinker, and I
(10:23):
was curious to say, maybe there's a more effective way
for this type of body type and for this guy
who doesn't have like that six six reach, Uh, that
can be really effective. And so that's kind of where
my philosophy went in. And so I kind of wore
all kind of hats in terms of the strength and
conditioning aspect, the you know, skill and technique, and then
(10:45):
you know also the overall like coaching philosophy. M So
did that for three years that I was fortunate enough
to stay at humbold State as an assistant strength coach.
But then I end up moving over to the D
line side of the ball and humbold State and I
coached the line for three year that Humble State, my
amma monitor. Uh. That was unique because they gave me
a perspective of understanding how to attack offensive linement and
(11:07):
what we were trying to do as a defensive scheme. Um,
and I was able to coach some really good players.
But when I went moved back to the offensive side
of the ball, it was like a whole new world,
Like I knew exactly what I needed to do in
terms of developing offensive lineman in terms of putting them
in the best possible case scenario to have success every
(11:28):
single down. And that's really turned this into a complete
niche um. I was fortunate enough to garnish the attention
of la Charles Bentley. I went down there and worked
with him for a couple of years and him worked
closely together, and we went our separate ways and work
out for me there And because it didn't work out
for me there is probably the best thing that ever
(11:49):
happened to me because it allowed me to really dig
deep do the work on myself that I needed to
do UH to mature UH and to really come on
into my own baturation, to take everything that I had
learned from coaches that knew more than me and had
done more than me, and then really streamlined it to
what I wanted to be. So many people told me
that You're gonna have to pick you can You can't
(12:10):
be a straight coach, You can't be UH position coach.
You can't be an evaluator, And my question was always
why can't I? And I thought that combining all three
of those always gave me a unique advantage to be
able to see into the future and predict uh potential.
Uh and you know, the capacity for development. And I've
really stuck to my guns on that and I've really
(12:31):
worked to continue to stay in that lane. And that's
kind of what you're getting now. So what people are
starting to see now in terms of uh, you know,
what we're putting out with oldline masterminds and you know,
me working with many of some of the top offensive
line in the league today is really ten years of
deliberate practice. When we talk about mastery and when we
talk about you know, those ten thousand hours, it's a
(12:53):
culmination now really over twelve twelve years of work. So
it's not something that I just got into and it happened. Um.
This has been a you know, uh, trickle down and
comprehensive type deal. Duke. This is a Cowboys centric podcast.
So we've got you on here because we know you've
worked with Cowboys current in past. Can you talk to
(13:13):
me about some of the guys you've worked with and
even some of the guys in the league, so that
our listeners haven't grasped him. Just who you've gotten your
hands on, Yeah, absolutely, um Lyo Collins, I've worked with
from the Cowboys. UM, definitely had worked with now Ham Irving.
UM started to have a rapport with Tyler Beattish. Um.
I've worked with Connor Williams pre draft, getting him ready
(13:35):
for his pro day and all his individual workouts. UM.
And I've got a really great relationship with a lot
of the guys on the Cowboys team, UM, including you
know former and current players Ron Larry, Jeremy Parnell. All
those guys I trained for four or five years, even
when they went to other teams. So. UM, the lillian
(13:56):
and the roster in terms of Cowboys have been pretty extensive. UM,
great organization. They care about their players over there. The
players kind of get it in terms of what they
need to do, uh to get better in terms of
other teams. UM. Since this is a Cowboy Centery podcast,
many people are gonna hate to hear that Lane Johnson
is one of my favorite people. But there's nobody that
(14:18):
puts more into the game in terms of preparation and
his body than Lane Johnson. Uh, you know, Brandon Brooks
is a good guy that also consulted. Uh you know,
Toron Armstead from the New Orleans Saints, Andrew's people in
the New Orleans Saints. Eric mcoy from the New Orleans Saints. Um,
there's just a list goes on around bowl. Yeah, so
(14:42):
interesting enough. At one point we did have a great
deal of pro bowlers. Uh. You know when you look
at who oldline Masterminds draws in terms of Ryan Jensen,
Trent Brown, uh, Mitchell Schwartz, Toront some of the guys
that I mentioned, Uh, you know, and now we've got
our new class from the past two years that have
really come in and can start to takeular lead by storm,
(15:04):
like McKay becker from the Jets and get a doctor
from the Steelers, and you know Cam Clark from the Jets.
So we've got, you know, just a bunch of guys
that are going out there and believe it in what
we do. And it's the true mastermind principle when you
get one or two or more in a room with
the same common going extremelined success and it lowers the
(15:27):
chance for failure. And Napoleon Hill came up with this
concept eighty years ago, and it's nothing new. It's just
I did the work to go and find out how
these people got successful and how the extreamlined success, and
so I bought that to holdline mastermind. When you look
at you mentioned there that you worked with Connor Williams
pre draft, and I think there's been some discussion about this.
(15:50):
People have wondered, is he do you think he's more
of a tackle? Do you think he should be playing
tackle instead of guard? So here's the thing, um, pre draft,
how I evaluated Connor. I thought that he was going
to be a guard. UM. I thought that the way
he liked to play, and you can still even see
that now. He likes to play square, he likes to
(16:11):
play flat. He doesn't like a lot of space, um,
And so that really does project in the guard. Now,
you guys that followed me, you guys know I'm going
to soap boxes and Rent. I don't believe every tackle
automatic kicks in the guard. I believe that there's physical
traits um and their style of play that dictate that
projection inside and kind of just displayed some of those
(16:32):
as I talked to you about as far as wanting
to work in the short area. Uh, people need to
understand this. Connor going into his last couple of years
at Texas had two different oldline coaches. Okay, there's an
oldline coach change. Connor also dealt with an injury, Okay,
coming into the league. Now with years is for Connor,
(16:54):
there's a year three? How many oldline coaches as he
had a right three. So when you start to look
at that track record of a guy changing positions, UM,
you know it's gonna take time. We give up on
guys so quickly. Um, in the NFL, when you look
at the high school development cycle and the college development
(17:15):
cycle and even the Olympic development cycle, if you match
those out, it's four years. It's four years of full
intent development to where people end up realizing their potential
and uh, really performing at that pinnacle level. So if
you got a guy that is going through that much
adversity with changing coaches and injuries, and he's dealt with
(17:37):
injuries even as a pro, I mean you still got
to give that man a chance to develop. In my opinion,
because when guys are rehabing from injury and changing positions,
let's let's just take the injury aspect the injury aspect,
guys are working to get back on the field and rehab.
They're not getting better at their position at that point.
(17:58):
They're getting better in terms of their health and overall
strength and their ability to be available to the team.
But think about how much he missed in that time
in terms of actual development, and then you factor that
into having different coaches and makes it difficult when you're
spending a lot of your time rehab. So that's kind
of what's going on with Connor. I'm not ready to
(18:19):
give up on Connor yet. Uh. I think that he's
still um flashes some bright spots. I think that in
terms of overall technique and just overall philosophy and how
he plays can be cleaned up a little bit. Also
think that he still needs to continue to get stronger,
and I think that is possible um And I think
(18:39):
that some of those injuries has kind of halted his
ability to get functionally stronger. But I see improvement out
of them. I like to defer to people that are
smarter than me. And since you've seen so much of
these guys and obviously this position over the years, it's
no secret for the offensive line has been a week
link for the team this year. How much of a
(19:00):
drop off is there really in the absence of a
Tyrant Smith, of a Travis Frederick, of a Zach Martin.
What do they do that is so special? And can
we expect this new crop of guys to develop into
that at any point this season or even sniffet. So
here's the thing, Dallas Cowboys organization and Dallas Cowboys fans
(19:22):
have been spoiled over the years with a tremendous and
anomaly of offensive life. When you look at some of
those names that you just mentioned, you could very easily
say at the top of their games, all of those
guys that you mentioned were the pinnacle and the prototypes
of their position. When you talked about if you want
(19:43):
to build a left tackle, you thought about seven seven tyrants.
When you talk about you want to build a center, toughness, um,
competitive edge, smart, consistency, availability, it was Travis Fredick that
Martin is still the Goats center for guard. When you
look at the guys that have worn um, you know,
(20:04):
the Dallas Cowboy jersey and there's played guard. There's two
guys automatically now that come to mind, and that is
Larry Allen is that on and uh, you know Lil
Collins Loo Collins interesting enough, played left tackle a l
s U kicked in the guard and then end up
learning a new position at right tackle. And I think
(20:24):
the last two years we've really seen quote unquote, you know,
an awakening of how good Lael is. So would you
take those guys and you lose those guys, there's gonna
be a major drop off because those guys are arguably
the top two and three at their position, respectively in
the entire NFL. So when you lose that, for one thing,
(20:48):
when you go across the NFL, there's not a whole
lot of guys like that even starting in the league.
And then when you take those starting that starting layer away,
there's not a lot of valuable backups that are able
to come in immediately and start and play at an
effective and a high level. And I think we've seen
that over the years when tyrants had to miss games,
(21:08):
I think we've seen that. Luckily, you know, when Travis
was out, I think Joe Louely did a tremendous job
fell on hid him. You know, you were able to
win still with Joe Luan, he was not going to
be Travis Frederick. But Travis Frederick was Travis Frederick was
sperm at the head quote quote unquote, you know, like
there there's nobody that's gonna be him. So with that
(21:29):
thing said, I think a lot of times people panic,
and you know, they have these expectations that are lofty
and granted when you're in there as a professional football player,
it's all about results. It doesn't matter if you're the
backup or the starter. But at the end of the day,
the guys that are playing right now are not to
the level of those starters. And they were back up
(21:49):
for a reason and they were available for a reason.
But my whole point that I want to get over
to this is don't let your eyes fool you. The
guys that War seventy one at right tackle in MYO
Colls and seventy at guard seventy two and Travis Fredrick
seventy seven and even when Ron Larry was there and
you know, the War sixty five, those guys were borderline
(22:12):
very good to elite players across the board respectively, and
it was a reason why they had the number one
offensive line for you know, two to three years. Um,
So losing those guys are tremendous blow because you built
your team, you built your philosophy on having those studs
up front, and when you lose one, it's like, okay,
you gotta plug in. You lose two, it's like, oh,
(22:33):
you lose three. Uh. Now to night, we saw a
Dallas Cowboys old line that was unrecognizable and it really
hit go ahead. I was gonna say, is can that
explain then why we've seen such a drop off from
Ezekie Elliott when you don't have the confidence in that
offensive line. Is it fair for people to criticize the
fact that he hasn't had those a hundred yard games.
(22:55):
I think it's easy to look at the the box
score and say, well, we you know, his outs aren't
what they are. But I mean again, I like to
defer to people that are smarter than me. Could that
be the explanation of it? As simple as it might be,
You just don't have that wall blocking for you right now?
Absolutely well, when we're talking about you know, actually getting
(23:16):
yards and you know opening hose and the continuity often
some line as a position of five individuals with one
common gup, you know, five as one so to speak,
So continuity in that group of those five guys across
the board is very important, okay for the group itself,
but furthermore, continuity and understanding how certain guys are going
(23:38):
to play in the timing and setting up blocks on
cabo blocks coming off to the second level. Those are
all things that facts not only see but read and fear.
So having a different lineup in there every couple of
games and having new guys that may not be as
powerful at the point of the chad definitely changes up
the timing and the flow in which Zeke is getting. Uh.
(23:59):
You know, his work came with that being said, of course,
Zeke's got to do a better job of taking care
of football when he does have those opportunities. But you know,
as he showed, he's very accountable for getting better in
terms and owning you know, some of the mistakes that
he made. But absolutely it impacts the run game and
even the protections tremendously. We're not having the same five
(24:21):
guys in there and then having a new five guys
in there. Um. With that being said, it's still a
really good thing that Zack Martin is in there and
he's healthy and playing still at an elite level. Uh.
One of the things that Zach is really good at.
It's always been in great position, being able to finish.
(24:42):
He's probably the best recover hartist I've seen in the game,
which leads him to just not getting beat. I think
you've seen the last couple of weeks. Cam Irving is
a very valuable back up at left tackle. He's played
pretty decently and held up well. He's not gonna be tiring.
Nobody expects him to be. But in terms of what
Dallas has had in the past, in terms of backups,
(25:03):
I think cam Irving is a is a guy that's
played a lot of football. Is with the Chiefs last
year had an extended role with them with some injury,
So he's played some football and has had some experience. Um.
I think Tyler Beotis is very promising. I think that
you've got something there with Beoti. Smart kid, tough, um
and it's gonna be I think, very good for a
(25:23):
long time. The cow and Terence Still, you know, I
think Still is a guy that right now he was
thrusted into the lineup sooner than he needed to be.
He still must work on his consistency in his past
set set into his spot, not overseting invitement inside counter
move and then also needs to continue to get better
(25:43):
with his hands. One team learns how to not only
be consistent with his pass set and making sure that
his are winning the fight, he's gonna be in better
position to more effectively use his hands, and that's something
that takes time. UM. I think still also leads to
UH improving his overall functional strength. That way, he holds
up to some of those bull rushers that guys are
(26:04):
liking the state. But he showed some flashes and some promises,
but he's not a guy that anybody expected to play
this year. So with him being thrust it into the lineup,
it's a thin line because you like those guys getting
game experience, but you also worry about UH, you know,
putting those guys in too soon, and it definitely could
take its toll on you mentally when week after week
(26:26):
after week you feel like you're not having success. So,
you know, my advice to any of those guys, it
was just keep shipping away, find something to get better
at every single practice, take it serious by serious, moment
by moment, and before you know it, UM, you'll start
to see improvement in the game. And just the overall
fielding the conference for in which they play with, and
(26:47):
they still got a guy like Zack Martin mckelin on
the still you know, got Cam Herving who's playing a
lot of football. Um. You know again, like I said,
Connor is still checking out and figuring out his game.
So it's not it's been in the past. But at
the same time, all is not lost. It's uh, it's interesting.
(27:08):
That's the thing I think most people have felt like, Okay,
there's a lot of things that have been outside of
your control. You know, Tyron Smith getting hurt, Lyle Collins
getting hurt, Zach Martin getting hurt, Travis Frederick or Tying,
you know, things like that. Um, I think when the
season started and Tyron Smith was healthy, and then it's okay, um,
you've got Cam Irving, you signed him to be your
swing tackle, and then you start with Terrence Steele. Okay,
(27:29):
Cam Erving gets hurt, but Brandon Knights there and you
Brandon Knights started games for you at tackle last year,
and then you don't go to Brandon Knight and then
you go, okay, well, I mean you've got Greg Snatt
and Jordan's Mills in your building now and these are
veterans who have played before and then you've got Okay,
we've seen Zack Martin bump out to right tackle and
play there, and you've got a top one pick that
can slide in a guard at Connor McGovern. Are you
(27:50):
do you find it interesting just from the outside, um
that they have seemingly been so committed to steal with
There's been some options that it would seem like are
some options within the building that you could go with
while Steel has been struggling as much as he has. Yeah,
you know, but I think a big factor is uh
this as well. For one thing, I don't know how
(28:11):
the coaching staff used different personnel. I don't really know
this coaching staff too well. What I do know of
Joe Philman is um, he's a guy that demands a
lot in terms of execution mentally. So though we may
think that some of these guys are valuable options or
valuable options um at the tackle spot, if they're not
picking up the concepts, they're not gonna play for Joe Philben.
(28:32):
So that's one thing in which we see the physical part,
and we know what the physical part, especially with a
guy like uh, you know, George Mills, who has started
a ton of football games. But if he's not picking
up the playbook in enough time, then you know he's
not going to see the field because most coaches will
rather take a lesser athlete in talent versus a guy
(28:53):
that they take a guy that they can trust, and
it is not going to have uh, you know, the
mental errors or the mrs sign it over a guy
that is going to be physically dominating. I was gonna
mess up all the time, and they put the offense
of the bad decision. It's a gift take, but you
know that would be some of the thought process behind.
While some of these guys aren't getting the opportunity, it
(29:14):
could be that they're just not picking up the concepts
and the playbook as well as coach wants them to.
Any suggestions now that we're just learning that Andy Dalton
is not dealing with concussion protocol this week, but he
is now on the reserved COVID list. And to Nucci
against the Steelers, I assume you watched the game on
(29:39):
Sunday night. Was there anything that stood out to you
that that might lend itself to helping him out a
little bit back there? I mean that they tried with,
They tried with those quick throws, they tried with the
quick screen game. Not having stand back, how do you
help that kid out against the Steelers defense. Honestly, it's
(30:01):
gonna be rough because what the Steaters do well is
they're able to get after you with their base defense,
but then they're also able to disguise stuff really well.
So the Steaters will line up and give you a
bunch of different looks where they spend the wheels late
on the back end with their secondary. When they're bringing pressure,
they're saying false pressure. So it makes it extremely difficult
on a young quarterback to kind of get a feeling
(30:22):
to read the factor that end with the offensive line
that isn't um you know, to that standard in terms
of completely starting again, You've got guys there that are
played now. But you know, communication is going to be
key upfront. I think it's going to be important for
the young quarterback to not try to do too much.
It looked like on Sunday night that the game was
(30:43):
moving fast for him, but it looked like he was
moving faster in a panic. You know, you know, he
didn't have that complix you could tell people say happy
Feever were seeing ghosts. Um. It was just you could
tell like he was kind of out of his element.
He wasn't competent UM and with his ability to really
get the job done, UM, I think with the coaching
(31:05):
staff is gonna really have to do against this defense
is trying to come out and establish the run early
on UM. Even though Pittsburgh is showed in an eight
ability to take away the run. UM saw that two
weeks ago against Tennessee. UM. They did a great job
against Derrick Henry, really great job. But they have to
have some semblance of a run game, whether it's the
(31:27):
quick screen game to the outside, you know, making sure
that Pittsburgh is able to run. UM, whether it's setting
up zeke on you know, some of the screens, the
running back screens. But they're gonna have to do something
a lot of play action that kind of protect him
and get Nucci out on the edge. He is a
good athlete, so he can get him outside the pocket
and throwing the run. That could work to some advantage
(31:47):
and maybe hit some big shots downfield. But again it
comes back to trying to really establish the run game
and not give uh and not really give away the ball.
Deep into the territory and then also try to play
a plock management. We're a fan of Danucci on this
show we had in this offseason. I'm tell you, I'm
nervous for I'm nervous, I know. And that's and you know,
(32:10):
to that point about protecting the man's life and making
sure that he doesn't get crushed by t J Watt
out there. Um, when you when you look at if
you were, you know, working on this game plan and
you saw, you know, the the skill that the Cowboys
have a receiver and some of the issues that they've
had pass blocking. I mean, if you were in there
as the offensive line coach, would you be hammering home
(32:32):
the idea of, hey, look, let's uh, you know, if
we want to try and push the ball downfield at all, like,
let's try some max protect stuff. Let's keep aid in.
We got these receivers that are so talented, you know,
we can send two of them out there and try
and win on their routes and see if we can
hit something. I mean, would you be looking at some
max protect options with how talented Pittsburgh's pass arches and
how depleted Dallas's offensive line is, how many Yeah, I know,
(32:57):
I know, but that's the thing it was. That's the
thing I'm saying, change it. Instead of just quick throws
to save them, sometimes some max protect and see if
he can get downfield. Who knows. So here's my here's
my thing with max to protect. And it goes to
the same thing with UM when you look at people
and say why didn't they give such such help or
you know, if it's not a part of your offense
in terms of actual packages and scheming, it's difficult to
(33:20):
just put that stuff in on game day. So if
we're looking at game plan type stuff, I think your
max protect has to be a part of UM. Your
play action pass looks h your your run action looks UM.
If you have some type of r p O s,
they have to be a part of that as well. UM.
That way, it's not dead getaways and hey we're gonna
(33:40):
max protects and two out of the route. Um, it
looks like that you're lining up to play the ball,
but then I mean to run the ball. But then
that all goes back to trying to at least get
some type of run game going early. That way, it
allows you to get those run actions in maybe get
on the edge and pop them down the field and
then be in the situation to be able to match
to protect you know, maybe a big formation and then
(34:03):
get you know, one on one matchup and man protection
now to field. UM. So it's just I think it's
all still predicated very much on being able to have
some early success with some type of run game UM
that allows you to be able to open up things,
so to speak. I'm curious for your thoughts. We haven't
talked about. This is one of the only guys we
haven't talked about yet. And this is a guy that
I am a big fan of. And that's Uh. He's
(34:26):
currently on I R. And that's Brandon Knight, Uh, the
undrafted rookie out of Indiana last year who was forced
into some game action. So when I see him, like
I see obviously guy who I mean, you can see
the play strength issues are there in time, he has
some issues with bulrushes and things like that. But to me,
it's like, okay, but the dude like he's a good
(34:46):
enough athlete that he gets to his spot and then
he fights like he's blue collar bulldog Doug Free type.
To me, what do you see when you look at
Brandon Knight, And do you think he has a future
is either a swing tackle or if the offensive line
is is right enough that you know, hey, in some circumstances,
that might be a guy that could be your right
tackle in the future or something like that. Do you
think he has that sort of ability? Well, Brenda and
(35:08):
I to me, everything you just said it was a
hundred percent correct. Um. He was a guy that went
out there and he didn't look like that he was
out of place. He was a guy that had success
um against you know, seventy eight percent of the guys.
Some of those neat guys he didn't struggle with, but
most people are gonna do be in that situation. He
fought his butt off. He was always in good position. Uh.
(35:28):
And so you saw it with him. He's a viable
option to have out there as a swing tackle or
even you know, like an extra tight end, a type blocker. Uh.
And you know, some jumble packages. But he's a guy
that I think that you can still continue to develop
and really lean on in terms of a valuable asset
to a team as a backup player. Um. It's interesting
(35:50):
enough because a couple of weeks ago, when he got hurt,
he got hurt, he got rolled up extremely bad. And
then I'm pretty sure he finished the game. And when
he got hurt, and when he got hurt and wrote up,
I saw it looked bad. And then he kind of
hopped up and continued to play us out. Maybe he
wasn't that bad. Next morning, you know, you saw he
had surgery. So that kind of shows you the type
(36:11):
of toughness that the kid has. Um And you're not
gonna win because of Brandon Night, but you can win
with him um at one of the positions. Um. So
I like some of the stuff that I've seen, and
I think that again, he's just a guy that continued
that needs to continue to devote. So when you look
at as guys look forward to the draft and stuff,
(36:31):
you know, if people are already going, hey we might
have a top five pick here. So hey penay sewell
you're you're somebody we could look at. Or as I'm
calling forward behind me, Rashaan Slater, who I saw put
Chase Young in the dirt about three times when he
played Ohio State last year. Um. When when you look
it as it's a great last name Slater. Um. Now
(36:51):
when you look at I know that you're you've actually
already started working with Rashaan's later Sewell and Slater, two
guys who opted out of the season. Um Slater, the
tackle from Northwestern. First, just tell us a little bit
about Rashaan Slater, what kind of player he is? And
I mean, is he a uh, cornerstone type of left tackle?
Is he the type of guy you can build an
offensive line around? You think? Yeah, absolutely, So you know,
(37:13):
Rashan went to North questern He's a very smart guy. Um,
very cerebral, but just very consistent, very consistent, consistent as
a person, consistent as a worker, and really consistent as
a player. Has a large skill set are already in
terms of what he's able to do with his set,
what he's able to do with his hands, his time,
(37:35):
and his knowledge of leverage is really impressive. Um. And
then the thing that I think that most people don't
know about him is he's creakishly strong. He's extremely strong.
That is the biggest thing I had to ask you
because I was with you last year watching you work out.
Cameron Clark, Sadique, Charles McKay, Beckton and there monsters in
(37:56):
size and that was the one thing I was going
to ask you about is because when you look at
showns later, just you see him, you're like, he doesn't
look like some of the big maulers. He doesn't look
like he's built like that. But then you see on
the field, it's like, man, how's he putting guys in
the dirt like that? Then if he's not strong, he
is put together, I think better than what people think.
His lower hat extremely large and muscular legs. Uh, he's
(38:20):
got a video that he's showed me. He front squatted
five or five or like five five reps um and
he's just he's just an extremely strong player and strong
in the correct area. Strong with his rotation anti rotation. Uh,
really good. You know overall core strength, upper back is
(38:41):
really strong, of course, legs strong, upper body really strong.
So um to me when you pair, Uh, you know
some of the physical ability that he has in terms
of the way he's able to move. He reminds me
of how he moves through armstead. He's very fluid with
how he moves. Are light but heavy when they need
(39:03):
to be what he needs to go get somebody really
has that really blew it set. But then you can
aggressive set get his hands on guys and in the
fight immediately has ridiculous top end range in terms of
get into his spot and they able to run guys
over the top of the pocket and even be in
position to finish guys at the top of the pocket,
(39:23):
as you saw against Ohio State with Chake jam So,
Rashawn's a guy that many people are already starting to him, Oh,
he's gonna have to move inside. If I'm a team,
I'm not moving him inside like and you will see
it the first day when he lies up that tack,
when he gets to the top of his set and
he's able to finish at the point of attack at
(39:43):
the top is set, teams are gonna go, oh yeah,
that's a left tackle. Um, So that's not a guy
that I'm willing to move inside. That being said, he
absolutely could move inside with with you know, little to
know Hiccup at all, But he's a guy is going
to be a really good player for a long time.
(40:04):
And what about Penney Sewell, there that's another guy that
you've seen a lot just from working on the Joe
More Reward, the the annual award for Best Offensive Line.
You know, I know you've seen him and we talked
to Daniel Jeremiah a couple of weeks ago, and uh,
you know, he had a lot of great things to
say about pen A. Um, well, what are your thoughts
on him as a player, and uh where he might
fit in as a sort of a corner stone and
(40:25):
somebody that you can build an offensive line around, similar
to h Rashaan Slater. Definitely, pay is a physical freak.
He's strong, he's big, he's athletic, and he's nasty with
his demeanor. Just a physical mindset. To me, when you
get those guys that are that kind of they've got
it all and they've got that mentality to want to
(40:47):
put people in the dirt and finish them, typically you're
gonna have a really good player, pro player on your
hands immediately. Um, there's some things I think that uh,
you know, when they will clean up this off season
that will make him even better. I think just simple
stuff like, uh, you know, hand placement, overall usage of hands.
(41:08):
He'll clean that up and he will become very very
dangerous in past protection um to a lot of people,
especially with the type of strength at length that he has. Um,
you know, he's a guy that can move the point
of attack and get to the top of the past
set and really be effective and dominating. Um, you know,
really taking over a game. So um, Pine, it's fun
(41:30):
to watch. I look forward to eventually working with Pine. Um.
You know for Cowboys fans. He's got the same agent
as uh Tyring Smith and be honest, so um it
should be encouraging. You know, Pine is gonna be in
a situation and be placed around the right people, um
to help his development, especially during this time where we've
(41:52):
got this extra time for him to work. So um.
You know, those are two guys that I'm really excited
about and I think that they will be tremendous pros
moving forward. And and here's the one last crazy note
on Piney Sewell is that he put out film that
people were saying, oh, that's the top five player as
a teenager. He has yet to play as a twenty
year old. He just turned twenty earlier in October. So
(42:15):
we're talking about a guy who's only played football the
furthest he's played was at nineteen years old, and he
was putting out top five film in Oregon. I mean,
he's only going to get better. Yeah, I asked you
a question about that. Though, what is going to be
the challenge for you guys. Scouts have talked to us
about this, being able to really assess these players when
they're not allowed on campus this year, especially as an
(42:37):
offensive lineman. Is that one of those guys that you
need to physically see their strength and their size in
person and you know their football like you because you
want those really smart guys in the offensive line. Is
that going to be the area where they're going to
feel challenged a little bit different than skills players. So
interesting enough, there's two answers to this. When you are
(42:58):
Pine and when you are Sean, it's not gonna matter
because you can turn on the tape you know exactly
what the heck you're getting with those two guys. But
for other guys, it does absolutely create a challenge, and
I think we kind of got a glimpse into that. Um,
you know this past combining cycle where you know, most
of the pro days were eliminated, all the visits were eliminated.
(43:19):
It's so teams relied heavily on agents and guys like
myself to really give them credible uh feedback. Um, you know,
there were a lot of teams and a lot of coaches,
a lot of gms that constantly wanted me to send
tape and uh, you know, like of our work acts
just kind of seeing when guys were um you know,
(43:41):
and then uh you know, like the boardwork type stuff
was very important. As you mentioned, they want to see
how these guys think, how these guys process. Um, So
it's gonna face we're gonna be faced with some challenges. UM,
but the challenges that we're gonna be faced with this
next combine cycle, UM, we'll be better prepared because we've
(44:03):
kind of gone through it already. You know, when you
when you're caught kind of in the win and not
knowing what to expect, you know, that's when leadership qualities
come in immediately and you say, okay, we gotta go
with the skid. And one thing that I know, especially
being a leader, especially getting a developer, UM, when adversity
(44:23):
and a change of schedule in the shift happens, you
gotta innovate, you gotta take action, you gotta kind of
go with the skid. And that's kind of what we
did with a lot of these guys. Um, you know,
because there was a for instance, Kevin Dotson. Kevin Dotson
was an All American and we've had a lot yet.
Um no combined invite. Pro day was canceled, but worked
his tell off in his tape. It forced teams to
(44:46):
go back and look at the state. He was taken
in the fourth round and he started three games this
year for the Pittsburgh Steelers. And then phenomena, that's a
guy that again he had no combined invite, no real product,
so they had to trust to take and trust uh,
you know, the information that they were getting from from sources.
But I think we're gonna be better prepared for the
(45:06):
one draft. No matter what happens. It's gonna be interesting
to to really see what happens at the Comboy is
that that the combine goes into actual bubble because we've
offended and we know that it's set up that we
could very easily be a bubble. But I think what
we may end up seeing is that it is a bubble.
Um there's not gonna be outside access allowed probably and
(45:28):
they're gonna have those guys there, you know, four to
five days and really putting them through the paces there
to kind of get intimate look to see who these
guys are. Uh, we've already seen the Shrine game cancel. Uh,
it'll be interesting to see talking to Jim Maggie Um
what the Senior Bowl looks like this week. It could
be that instead of a week, it's you know, ten
days or maybe two weeks. Who knows. I'm not sure
(45:50):
what Jim is gonna come up with. But one thing
I do know is some of these opportunities for showcases,
whether it is at the Senior Bowl, whether it is
at the Coby Um, guys are going to be able
to are going to need to be ready, to be
prepared to perform and put their best foot forward. But
I think for us and training guys and even team
(46:12):
teams will be better prepared to handle this this next
cycle around versus what we just went through this last year.
Last question for you here, Duke, because I am curious
and I know you are all about the complete package
with guys. Like I said, you you do all the
weight training with them. You you look at the the
full physical package and everything like that. I know some
people are curious about man Tyrn Smith's getting up there
(46:34):
and and you know he's had injuries coming up now,
but there's been less talk about the Lyle Collins injury.
And I think that's interesting given the fact that it
is a hip injury, and I know that hip fluidity
is such a big thing, you know, with so many positions,
but including the offensive line. Um, how important is that
recovery going to be for Lyle? How important do you
(46:55):
think that injury is? How seriously should people be taking
the Hey, look, you know this is this is a
serious thing that's going to take some care for him
to rehab and come back from because you know that
that hip movement is really important for the guy out
there right tackle. Yeah, it's tremendously important. But to my understanding,
based upon like the limited knowledge I have about the injury,
it's something that he can a hunterd percent come back
(47:15):
and be ready to um to play and play at
a high level with with rehab, with movement prep, with
sports mad and just continue to monitor it and rehab
the right way, not being forced, Uh, you know, really
to to be on the timeline. I think the beautiful
thing we have right now for him in terms of recovery,
it's time. So I've got most confidence that Lael will
(47:39):
be resilient and returned back to original form um to
what he was And uh, probably some aspects maybe even
a little better. I think that with the injury like that,
it is probably something that is systemic. Is probably something
that had probably been lingering that he kind of uh
just like blocked out, and it was probably limiting him
(47:59):
and his abilities prior to just this year. And camp
probably saw some of it last year on tape. A
lot of times just function runs up heel, so a
lot of times. Uh, something so simple as an ankle
injury which Lion has had um can affect the knee
and the hit alignment. UM. So you know, just looking
(48:19):
for him to get that get healthy. I think that
Cowboys fans will be pleased to know that. I think
he'll be bad and better than ever. Before I let
you go, I do want to follow up on that.
Cowboy fans have been fairly relentless as it relates to
not feeling like Laales showed up to camp in shape
and then there was this injury. Any chance that with
(48:40):
COVID and you know, if there was some sort of
lingering injury from last year, that maybe he didn't address
any chance that because of COVID. I think a lot
of us were having a hard time kind of working
through that that there was sort of a compound effect
of that, getting to the facility and the rehab that
he needed, getting the access to the workouts that he needed,
(49:03):
and then when you get out actually there on the
line and you're actually doing offensive line work, which is
very different than any individual working out that you might do.
That it was kind of a perfect storm for that
injury and the way it went down. Um. I mean
you could say, I mean that could be you know,
that could be realistic. But UM, I think that what
(49:24):
you heard about him not being in shape, I think
he was a little heavy. But as far as in shape,
I think he was in shape. I think he was
in shape. I think he was ready to play. Um.
What I think though, is that that injury was around
um longer and he just tried to work through it
and it got to the point where he couldn't work
through it anymore. And so that's what really became the issue.
(49:44):
And that happens to a lot of I mean, Sean
Lee was a player who was trying through his injury.
Great example one thing that I've learned because there's so
much that Dak Prescott. Yeah, there's so much that fans
don't see. Um, you know, they don't see until it
becomes available to them. But um, there's a lot of
these guys that are playing with and working through various
(50:07):
ailments that they just try to compartmentalize and um, you know,
leave on the back burner. But it gets to the
point where when your quality of life and you're just
your overall effectiveness is not there, and then you've got
to make a business decision to do what's best to you.
And I think that's kind of what you saw with
l uh And I think to some extent that kind
(50:29):
of happened with the tiring. I mean, we've been well
aware that he's had issues with stingers and next and
things like that, and I think it just got to
a point where he was like, I can't go anymore,
you know, and stuff like that happens. Um. One thing
about it is on the offensive line of the NFL,
injury is almost an you know, And I mean, everybody's
(50:53):
gonna get hurt, everybody's gonna have something, and these guys
are going to try to play as long as possible.
I've got another on another team that first week of
the season toward both ligaments and the stump on his
right hand end up having a cast on it. Um
played five weeks and then they played Monday night football
and head into a body. That next morning he was
(51:16):
in surgery at five am having surgery on on the thumb.
Came back the next week with the cast on and played.
You know. So, Um, you know, the timing of some
of these things sucks, and me as a fan understand
it sucks for me being a professional in the business. Um,
(51:36):
it happens, man, especially on the a lie. It's a
it's a violent, it's a physical game. And as I said, um,
injuries are have a hundred percent break in this business,
especially at that position. So it's it's got to happen. Um,
But I've got again the utmost confidence that will come
back and be ready to go. Well. Hopefully we appreciate,
(51:59):
we appreciate at you just your insight, because like I said,
I think a lot of us, you know, offensive line,
I feel like because one of those positions, it just
looks like a bunch of guys kind of guarding the
quarterback up front. I don't think people realize sort of
the intricac season ands that go into it, uh, and
what makes a good offensive lineman. So when we get
someone here that that is what they do day in
(52:19):
and day out. As you said, it's your lane. It's
nice sort of getting your insight and kind of your thought.
But it does sound like the Cowboys need Cowboys fans
at least need to recalibrate their expectations as it relates
to this new crop of offensive lineman the absence of
some of these uh guys that bordered on elite if
they weren't elite, And especially been to Nucci this week,
(52:40):
who has to deal with that. Yeah, And and they
need to start learning up on sugar Land, Texas his
own Rashaan Slater and and you can do that. You
can keep up with his pre draft process just by
following Duke on Twitter at Big Duke fifty and on
Instagram at the Big Duke fifty. He is the offensive
line renaissance ban with oh masterminds and pre draft training
(53:01):
and everything else. And so you definitely need to keep
up with him to keep up with all things offensive
line with the Cowboys and the NFL. So, Duke, we
appreciate you so much, man, Jane, Bobby, thank you for
having me. I know we've been trying to do this
for a while. Our schedules evolve been all over the place.
That's kind of been a theme. Um, you know, last
words to you guys, um, you know, stay safe out there. Um.
(53:24):
And I think we all can do our part to
be the individual change we want to see. Lead where
you are, Lead where you are, all right, So I
guess some perspective is what we got there on this
offensive line. I don't know if I feel any more encouraged,
not enough the fans to either after hearing a guy
that knows a thing or two about what an offensive
line should look like. But I think a lot of
(53:46):
people are in agreement that with this current record, there's
been no team that has ever gone to the playoffs.
That's correct, right, Bobby, I've got that stat right, sure,
I think so. I'm not a hundred present positive, but
I believe you're right. I will say I will say
that this is the But if we start seeing more
COVID shutdowns and we see this NEWFF, there could be
(54:09):
at another road, uh for the Cowboys, Bobby. So I
definitely think that's interesting. But at least again we are
trying to manage expectations for the fans. That's the theme
for manage expectations,
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.