Debating McCarthy's Dallas Future; 4-Time All-Pro Cowboy Darren Woodson on Dak; WR Guru David Robinson Talks Dez

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hello, boys and girls, Welcome in to the Boys and
Girl Podcast with Cowboys NFL Network reporter Jane Slater and
NFL Network producer Bobby Bell. Cowboys Community with the inside
scoop on the Dallas Cowboys, now coming straight to you

(00:22):
from the Lone Star State. Here's Jane and Bobby. Well, look,
I know we've been on a bit of a hiatus
this year, a little bit like this NFL football season, unpredictable,
frustrating at times. I find myself, much like the fans,
wondering where to even go with the show as it

(00:43):
relates to the talent, the direction, why fans should still
be watching. Uh, they didn't give you much to be
thankful for on Thanksgiving. So I just told Bobby we
needed just to stop down for a bit. So, but
we're back. Just breathe because you know, we'll talk about
the Ravens game. Something to be excited about former eight eight.

(01:05):
Does Bryant going to be on the other side of
the ball and uh get the shot that we both
thought that he deserved and did deserve and looking forward
to that one. So they're Cowboy fans something to look
forward to. Yeah, he's uh, he's actually looked pretty good
out there, I think. And we'll talk to David Robinson,
his receiver's trainer, a little bit later and get kind
of his perspective. But I think he's looked good, and

(01:27):
I'm excited to see, uh exactly what kind of you know,
his big model right now is keep that same energy.
I'm interested to see what kind of energy he comes
in there with. I want to see if it's gonna
be just kind of like cool calm assassin type or
if he's just gonna get like super amped up, because
I can honestly see it going either way. I could
see him coming in there going this is all business
and just I'm gonna play it cool, and and I

(01:48):
could also see him just getting like really jacked up
and excited for this game. But I think everybody's going
to be excited, uh, from both fan bases to watch
this and see uh that. I mean, that is the
storyline for this game game other the fact that you know,
it's the first time they're playing on Tuesday in the
history of the franchise, which is a little odd. And
this is all related to all the COVID problems that

(02:09):
the Ravens have had. They've had a bit of an
outbreak there and caused Lamar Jackson to miss the last game,
but um, he should be back for this one. Ravens
kind of reeling a little bit. They've lost three in
a row, four out of five, and they're definitely looking down.
And talk about r G three's post game outfit. Did
you see it? I didn't see it. I just know

(02:29):
how r G three is dressed in the past. I mean,
this is what. Didn't he wear soup? Didn't he wear
Superman socks to the Heisman ceremony years ago? This was
this fury fabulous coat and he had the mask on,
and honestly, all I could focus on was the coat
in this swag I've sort of missed. You know, you

(02:51):
talk about keeping the same energy. At least give me
something to be excited about some of these post games
on Zoom this year. So shout out to r G three. Uh,
the last Washington Redskins quarterback ahead of last Thanksgiving, as
you and I pointed out on game day that actually
beat the Cowboys. Yes, yeah, and now I not seeing
the outfit. Would you describe it as Cam Newton asked?

(03:13):
Was it like in the mold of a Cam Newton outfit. Look,
it wasn't a full commitment. What I appreciate about Cam
Newton is he fully commits. In other words, if he's
going for a vibe and a look, he's got the hat,
he's got the hair, he's got the accessories, it's color coordinated.
It is a full commitment. This wasn't a full commit
but at least he put just a little bit of

(03:35):
effort into that postgame look for me. And when I
say look, I mean look w K as the kids
would say, well, unless uh, you know, there's some unforeseen
circumstance that prevents Lamar Jackson from playing, you won't get
to see that that look after the Cowboys game. But
I think, look there there, look, I see that's that's

(03:55):
one that's I'm getting old because that's the way that
whatever that is, that's out of my vernacular. I didn't
know that was a thing. I'm just trying to stay relevant.
You're you're the one who keeps me relevant, and like
it's it's really hit me in the last two years,
I guess, especially as my son gets up towards like
high school age, like it's hitting me like how much
I and just out of touch with things. I remember.

(04:18):
You remember we interviewed Troy Pride last year from Notre
Dame leading up to the draft. Before that, I had
seen him out at Michael Johnson performance and uh, I
had given them a list of names of people I
wanted to talk to, and uh so they brought Troy
over and UH said, Bobby, this is Troy Pride, Toroy Pride,
this is Bobby Belt. And and Troy goes Mr. Belt

(04:39):
and he sticks his hand out and I said, uh,
I said, and I shake his hand and he goes uh.
He said, I don't know why. He said, you just
struck me as more of a Mr. Belt than a
Bobby and that that killed me. That that hurt to hear. Uh.
And I was stening there thinking like, dude, come on,
we're like the same age. And then I realized pretty quickly,
like no, I'm like eight years older than you. Holy crap.
Like this is all flying by pretty quick. The worst

(05:01):
is when you get called ma'am in the locker room.
I mean, I appreciate it, but it's ma'am. The weirdest, though,
is when like a nineteen year old girl is checking
me out somewhere and she's like here, you go, sweetie,
and I'm like, I'm old enough to be your mother. Um.
So yeah. So this is where we're at with the
Cowboys season, though, Bobby. We're talking about everything but them. No, no, no, See,

(05:24):
we're gonna be talking about them soon because they're they're
going to be so bad that they're gonna be picking
really good players in the draft and there's gonna be
they're going to ask you, I mean, and what direction
should we Because here's the deal. I thought the game
against Washington was a pivotal moment for them, coming off
the big win against the Vikings. And I had done
a show with the Washington football teams media and it

(05:47):
was after Marcus Paul's death, which was an awful week
last week, and they thought they were going to play
for Marcus and I said to them at that time,
I don't know if I believe. And here's why they
were going to do it for number four this year.
And they laid an egg for what three games straight
after that. Yeah, And I think there's that's a nice

(06:11):
sentiment from I think Disney movies of go out there
and play for let's rally together and we're gonna do
the impossible to rally for this person. In reality, most
of the time in professional sports, teams come out very
distracted when they lose, you know, their leader like Dak Prescott,
or they lose a guy like Marcus Paul who's the

(06:32):
strength coordinator, who is the coach they see the most
out of any of their coaches. That is the guy
every single player sees the most, because the strength coach
is the one that's allowed to be with them during
O t A or during the off season program. That's
the guy that they talked to more than anybody. Generally,
players are gonna be closer to the strength coach than
a lot of the others. And so, uh, it's a

(06:53):
nice sentiment. Everybody would like to think they were going
to rally um. But I think what you saw on
Thanksgiving was more of reality, which is guys who are
human and you know, are distracted and grieving and their
heads not totally there for that game, you know, a
day after losing somebody they were close to. I think
it's a mixture of that. I think it's a talent issue,

(07:14):
and I'll continue to go back to the coaching thing.
I mean, I think, look, I think the players after
the report and I know it wasn't well received. I
think that the locker room galvanized a little bit. They
were able to have a unified villain um us against them,

(07:36):
and it just it fell flat. Because there are a
lot of these things to be true, right. And I
say that because you've got Ron Rivera who came in
here first year as a head coach. And Ron and
I talked ahead of this game and I said, how
would you describe your year? And he said tumultuous that
was the word he used. And if you think about

(07:58):
Ron coming in Leaves Carolina, you have the scandal as
it related to the cheerleaders and the franchise and the owner.
You had the name change that was significant. Lloyd really
rattled Ron and the way that he talked to his
players and and how he tried to relate to them.
He's on his third quarterback Alex Smith, the guy that

(08:20):
not only was told he may not play again, they
didn't know if he was going to make it because
the infection in his leg, multiple injuries to their team,
and he played with Marcus Paul that was his teammate
in Chicago and dealing with cancer treatments and dealing with
cancer treatments and on the road found a way to win.
This week, I'm going to Nashville and I'm covering the

(08:41):
Cleveland Browns. Kevin Stefanski first year as a head coach.
Never been a head coach anywhere else. No skins on
the wall, That entire defense is decimated. All of those
draft picks that they were excited about, add Ronnie Harris,
the lack list into preserve this week. Sure, they've got
Nick Chubb, They've got Kareem Hunt, a Ker Mayfield inconsistent
there eight and three. This is a team that's in

(09:03):
the playoff hunt for the first time since two thousand
and two. So again, I understand a lot of things
have happened to this Cowboys team this year, and it
didn't get any better. When you saw Zack Martin come
out of the game, that just felt like final nail
in the coffin for this team. I feel like there's
no starters left or or guys of recognition. Of course,

(09:24):
you've got jam being a little dramatic, You've got Jalen Smith,
Shawn Lee, Layton, vandersh but not enough to keep this
boat afloat. But I look at some of the excuses
that other teams can point to. And I'm sitting there
going what the Cowboys have managed? How many ones this year? Three? Yeah,

(09:44):
And I think it's if there's ever been, I think
a better testament and obviously they struggled early on, but
if there's ever been a better testament for the question
of should you pay dark Prescott. I think the uh,
the total meltdown when not just on the field, but
just seemingly the total out down in chemistry and everything
else when he was removed from that locker room on
a daily basis was kind of that had to be

(10:06):
eye opening. And I think that Jerry's always talked a
little more affirmatively about Dak's future and just nope, he's
he's staying here. He's always said that publicly, that's what
he said. Steven has been a little bit more, you know, well,
we we want to get this done. It's our intent.
We want to get this done. I've noticed in the
last month or so kind of a shift at his
where it's you know, if Dad comes up, that that's

(10:26):
today and that he said, you know, well that our quarterback,
and where you I think that there's been a realization
within that building of not just what he means on
the football field, but what he means to that locker room.
And I think they're probably doing a lot of internal evaluation,
not just about what to do about Dak moving forward,
but just also going and even Dad coming back isn't
gonna fix all of these these issues that we seem

(10:47):
to have with communication on the field and and during
the practice week and some of these things. And so
I think you're definitely in for a number of changes,
even if they're not in terms of personnel or staff.
I think structural changes will will be a focus for
the Cowboys this offseason because I think they realized this,
this can't be executed in this manner again moving forward,

(11:11):
maybe we can save this staff or save some of
these players and keep them around, but structurally, something's got
to change. You know. I heard something interesting again when
I was on the calls. Uh. It was with one
of the Titans player, their defensive tackle, was talking about
Mike Rabel and how Rabel has really helped these guys

(11:32):
this year because specifically said he was going through rehab.
Rabel has won super Bowls with the Patriots, He's played
the game. He's not far removed from them, he's not
that much older than them. And before we kind of
scoffed this notion of the Sean mcveigh's and the Cliff Kingsbury.
And today I looked down at my notes and I'm like,

(11:52):
I'm older than Kevin Stefansky, Like I'm now becoming older
than some of these coaches. And so I think there's
an initial reluctance why bringing these young eyes. But when
that player started talking about how they related to Mike Rabel,
and you know, especially in a season like this, I
do wonder if the Cowboys second guess the fact that

(12:13):
they didn't go younger. We know that they had at
least talked to or kicked the idea, but remember they
kept saying, we want someone that's got skins on the world,
someone that's got experiences. I just I wonder if when
you look around the league and you see guests, there
are guys the Sean Payton's the world, the John Harball's

(12:33):
that get it done, that have been around for a while,
but just the way this game is now, the nuances
that come with social media and sort of you know, again,
I point to Mike Rabel, He's got Taylor of the
one and those guys that have a podcast, like their
podcasting during the season. Mike McCarthy doesn't want anything that's
being said and his meetings going out to the public.

(12:54):
But you've got Taylor the Wan and Will Combdon literally
sitting on a bus shooting shooting the Breeze, Camp Jordan
and mark Ingram during the week. I just I wonder
if when they're sitting at home at night or over Christmas,
the conversation doesn't come up with we might like Mike,
but should if we were going to make wholesale changes,
should we have gone the Mike Nolan's of the world.

(13:14):
Should we have gone to Mike McCarthy's, or should we
have gone younger? I think it's interesting, especially because I
think there's two forms of potential regret here, and one
of them I've heard Jerry hint At recently in an
interview he gave to one O five through the Fan
where he said, uh, I think it was last week
to Shawn and r J. He said, you know, if
if there was a year where you really wanted continuity,

(13:36):
this would have been the one. And it almost just
struck me as kind of like, man, maybe if we
knew this was coming we would have just said, all right,
well we're gonna give Jason one more year because we
we can't risk a change over. And so I do
think that usually, I think when you hear Jerry say something,
there's no throwaway lines. I don't feel like in Jerry's interviews.
I feel like what Jerry says something, he's either getting

(13:57):
straight to the heart with you, or if it sounds
like it's kind of off or just a throwing comment,
that's more just he's he's externalizing something that's been said
internally during the week, and yeah, he's he's taken it
out of the coach meetings or the staff meetings, and
he's now saying, so, you know, those conversations have been
had of Man, if we could do this over again
and we knew this was coming, we probably would have
just said Jason for another year. Um. But I think

(14:19):
that's one level of great. I think the other one is,
remember we talked to Charles Robinson when they hired Mike McCarthy,
and he said that he was told that Matt Rule,
who's having success in Carolina, looks like a really uh
got a bright future there, and somebody who was coaching
in the state of Texas, not too far from Dallas
and Waco um that Matt Rule had told people privately.
According to Charles Robinson, that he was surprised he didn't

(14:40):
get a call, like he he doesn't know if he
would take the job, but he was expecting a call
from the Cowboys and then the fact that he didn't
get one kind of confused him, like, am I missing
something here? Why wouldn't I be somebody they'd want to
talk to? And I think that's how a lot of
people felt with McCarthy. I was made of Yeah, he's
got skins on the wall, but that was an awfully
quick decision. You interviewed your Rooney Rule candidate, and then

(15:01):
you interviewed Mike McCarthy, and you didn't let Mike McCarthy leave.
And I wonder if you're as to your point, I
think the Cowboys are internally wandered. I don't know if
I should use this analogy and go there. But it's
like your you're you're holding out for your soul mate,
but you went out and had a bunch of drinks

(15:22):
and you just ended up with the last guy standing
at the bar, and he kind of settled. Uh, the
way they described that night. You know, the grabbing of
the shoulder and the couple of the drinks and the dinner,
and you know Jerry Jones Jr. Telling Dad, we found
our guy. It's just the way the whole thing went
down was interesting and and far more interesting to me

(15:45):
is as I had reported last year. They had had
the conversation about urban Meyer and lo and behold, he
might end up in the state of Texas, right down
south with Tom Herman and I bring up these these
comparisons a lot between the University of Texas in Dallas
Cowboys because they feel very similar to me. The fan
base wants immediate wins. They remember what it was like

(16:08):
to be great. They don't have the patience to wait
for you to be great. They look at other programs
and say, look, they turned it around overnight. They caught
lightning in a bottle. But we should do it because
we're Texas. We're the Dallas Cowboys. We can throw all
the money at the things. But to find the Jimmy
Johnson's in the world, and to find the mac Brown's,

(16:29):
it's hard because you answer to so many people and
you are expected to be father, disciplinarian politician, lobbyist. It's
hard to have that job, and as we discussed, did
the Cowboys have buyers remorse? I often wonder if Mike
McCarthy regrets the decision. He doesn't strike me as someone

(16:54):
who backs down from a challenge, and I do think
that he was given extraordinary circumstances to come back after
a year away from football. Now that's different than Stefanski.
Stefanski was with Minnesota all those years. But I just

(17:15):
wonder if knowing the scrutiny that I think. I think
it was all fun and games until that Thanksgiving game
and we saw the media sort of turn on him,
and it just felt like everyone from players, what were
five games and when I reported that tames in, people
turned on Mike quick I typically it takes a little

(17:37):
bit longer, it takes a season, it takes This was
an extraordinary season, though, But I just I think of
all the hits that kept coming to Mike this year.
I felt for him as a man, as a father,
as a husband, as a son. People that are watching
this thing play out and he's in the thick of

(17:57):
it here. I feel for him because it does feel
like there have been an extraordinary amount of circumstances that
have come his way, and he just felt completely exhausted
after that presser, emotionally exhausted, physically exhausted. And the Cowboys
sort of got this gift of the many bye week,

(18:18):
and they certainly needed it. I just don't know what
they play for at this point, yeah, because I mean,
even when they had things to play for, they didn't
seem to want to play. And that's been the case
for a lot of this season. There have been very
few games where they've gone out there and they've looked
like they're ready and like they're like they're ready to
go out there and attack it um. And I don't

(18:38):
know that Mike McCarthy regrets coming here. I think it's
different than he thought it'd be, obviously, outside of just
the COVID thing. I don't know, and you and i've
had this conversation out here. I don't know that Mike
McCarthy fully grasped what it meant to be the coach
of the Cowboys. I don't know if he knew exactly
like the gravity behind everything he'd say at a press conference,
how much people were gonna, you know, want to talk

(19:00):
to his players, how much you know, and this is
in a year where we don't even get Jerry postgame
out in the Could you imagine some of the potential
drama we could have had if Jerry would have said
the wrong thing. And then Mike gets asked about it
in the press conference, and it's it's setting up for
I think he doesn't even know what a normal year
looks like. This is a lot. I think I think
it maybe another year of growing pains if he's back

(19:22):
next year, just dealing with the logistics of, Oh, this
is what normal Cowboys is like. I mean this. I
had a revealing conversation with a coach last week, I
head coach in the league, and I asked him, I said,
would you want the cowboy job? He said, knowing what
I know now and what it's taken me to build
the franchise and the team that I have, that is

(19:47):
not a job for somebody long in the tooth and
other words. This job requires youth, This job requires an
eager individual. This job requires somebody with enthusiasm. And I'm
not saying Mike doesn't have all those things. I think
you can be out of the game kind of like

(20:07):
Dez and want to come back so bad but it
does require this fifth gear that when you've got some
of these challenges and you've done it one way for
so long, it's hard to keep finding that gear again.
Like you get up the first time, get up the
second time you get up. The hits keep coming this

(20:29):
year for him, and I one percent believed that Mike
McCarthy is going to be back next year. I just
don't know how different it's gonna be, just given everything
that comes with the Cowboys. And again, I just wonder
if a Matt Role and Urban Meyer, Lincoln Riley, Kevin Stefanski,

(20:52):
one of those guys would have been better suited for
the challenge in Dallas. And like I said, I was
fascinated to hear that take from someone who's been in
the league and then saying it's not a job that
I want and here's why. Well, and you know, as
you say you think Mike McCarthy's back next year, I
don't think that. I think we've both said this isn't likely.

(21:13):
As Steve Wilkes scenario in Arizona UM where Cliff Kingsbury
becomes available and all of a sudden it's okay, Hey,
let's let's go get Cliff but but I will say this,
and well, we're about to chat with Darren Woodson real quick,
you bring something up their body. As I had this
conversation with someone, I said, what are your thoughts from
the outside looking, and you've been in the league for

(21:33):
a while, speaking to your point, like's the coach next
year unless a shinier object becomes available. That's what I'm
about to ask you. If let's say season ends, they've
gone for and twelve and they're all these built in
excuses for it. But if if a Lincoln Riley calls
directly or communicates through back channels, however way to to

(21:55):
get word to the Cowboys from office and says, I
take the Cowboys job up. If you guys open that
job up, I'll go take it. Do you think they would?
Do you think they'd buy out McCarthy's contract. The thing
that I love and the thing that fans loathe about
Jerry is his loyalty and his belief in people. And

(22:17):
I truly believe, because I've had my binoculars on that
suite this year, because it's been far more entertaining than
watching some of the stuff on the field, I believe
he feels for for Mike. I feel like he believes
in Mike, and he, like Jason Garrett, wants to see
Mike succeed. So I believe because of that there will

(22:40):
be a loyalty there. I think that this was strictly
Stephen's decision. Well, and and to that point you talk
about he's a loyal guy, he was also loyal to Daz,
and he didn't necessarily want Dez gone when they moved
on from Dez, and you know, they made the decision
to move on from Roman, things like that. But ultimately
other advisers maybe went out in those sorts of debates.

(23:01):
So if you know Lincoln Riley who talks to Stephen,
you know, or intimates to Stephen, I'd like that job.
Does Stephen have enough despite Jerry's maybe inclination to be
loyal to Mike. Does Stephen have enough pull with JAREDA
then say hey, look, this is the better decision for
the future of this franchise. Do you think they would
go that way or do you think Mike would ultimately
stay and they'd say, sorry, Lincoln, we're locked into our guy.

(23:26):
I wouldn't be surprised if, like Dez, there was a
leadership council meeting and the question was raised should we
keep him or move on? And I think it'll be
very The one thing that we've heard about Jerry and
we've seen is that he's always gauging opinion, and I

(23:49):
would not be surprised if at some point towards the
end of this season he gauges the opinions of guys
like Sean Lee, DeMarcus, Lawrence, Dak Prescott Um, the Zack
Martin's of the world. I think he'll go down the
list and he'll ask these guys, is this the guy
for the job? And I think he'll also weigh that
with what I think all of us would want is

(24:12):
an opportunity to succeed under normal circumstances. I mean, if
you and I got hired to do our job this year,
it would be very hard for me to prove to
my bosses that I'm good at this job given the
challenge that I wouldn't have player phone numbers, I wouldn't
have access to the locker room, I wouldn't know this
team as well. I would not be able to be

(24:33):
as successful as I would under normal circumstances. So that's
why I if I was a betting woman, and I
can't bet because I worked for the NFL, but if
I had to place a bet, I'd go all in
on my being back next year, regardless of whether Lincoln
was available or not. But I think it's intriguing that
someone who's been around the league longer than I. Uh,

(24:57):
that's their takeaway, and I don't think they're that far
off on it. And I think he's back as well.
I think you're right, and I think that I would.
My own outlook on it is that, like you said,
this is not a normal year and it's presented challenges.
I think a normal year will present challenges as we've
said that Mike McCarthy hasn't even thought about yet, and

(25:18):
I think that that's going to be a sobering year
next year if he is back and and these are
normal circumstances, because I think there's another it's a second
year of adjustment, and I think that's tough for that'll
be tough for the team to justifive, man, this is
two years of growing pains? What is this? Why? Why
was it that this should have been easier this time around?
But I think because it's the Cowboys job and how

(25:41):
unique the Cowboys job is going into a normal year
for the first time with the Cowboys. Isn't going to
be a normal year, and so I think it'll present
a lot of interesting questions. I just think at a
certain age, and like I said, in speaking to this
other coach, at a certain age, don't you want covering

(26:03):
the league? You can say it was Jason Garrett. Jason
Garrett told you, Okay, sorry, Covering the league is a
lot of fun. This is a cool job. But these
coaches don't see their families a lot. There is a
lot of scrutiny. You like, as they said, if that
if that fourth and one trick play had worked, there
the hero. If they don't, they're we're talking about it

(26:24):
the rest of the season and talking about how negligent
they were that their team was in a position to
be up on the board, and you could argue that
that changed the whole momentum of the game. And then
it was a blowout on Thanksgiving. I just wonder if
he's got the stamina and if he's got the will
after this sea I mean, this is to come back

(26:47):
after a year and go through it. You went through
the Packers, imagine what he went through the final years
in Green Bay. Take a year off. You want to
come back. You love football. This is the year you
come back, and then to your point next year. We
don't know what Deck's gonna look like. We don't know
if he's even you're going to be your quarterback. So okay,
let's play Devil's advocate. We roll with another quarterback. You've

(27:10):
got the growing pains of that our guys gonna retire,
our guys gonna come back? Are the guys that were
entered in on I R this year because it was
a lot of your starters. Are they gonna be what
you need them to be? We are in We're not
in were close mode in Dallas. We're in rebuilding mode,
or at or at the very least, renovation. You're renovating

(27:30):
the back room at the very I don't know if
it's full rebuilt bathroom, but there's a lot renovation, Bobby,
And you're putting a pool in the backyard. I mean
this this house was not turnkey when he was turn
key when he got it. And then COVID happened, and
then you realize the inspector that inspected the house didn't
see all the cracks. There are a lot of cracks.
He missed him, so he bought the house, and you're like,

(27:51):
oh my gosh, I'm about to put money into this
money pit. I just wonder if Mike has the stamina
for this job. I wouldn't fault him if he saw
this as more of an if he thought that this
was going to be a little hill and it ended
up being a mountain, which is what Dallas is. I mean,

(28:12):
it's it's why it's a billion dollar franchise. It's why
people care about it. Jerry creates this and I love
covering it. We call it the glamour beat for a reason.
But it wears on people, and I can only imagine
how it wears on the coaching staff. Yeah, and I
think that where I don't think that's just coaches. I mean,
I think that's why the Cowboys have always put such

(28:32):
a high emphasis on um, you know, bigger school guys
coming out in the draft. They want guys who they
feel are mentally prepared to understand the crush of being
a cowboy. And and Gammy Watkins was smart, right, Remember
we heard Sammy Watkins did not come to Dallas. That's
why you got a Marie Cooper Sammy Watkins didn't want
to deal with the attention that came with the count.

(28:54):
Have we even talked about sam Sammy Watkins since he
went to Kansas City. No, I don't think so, not
really no, But I mean that's that's that's what you
deal with here. And I think I think you and
I have seen instances where Mike McCarthy, I think you
could see him in real time realizing this is an

(29:14):
issue that I wouldn't have had to have dealt with
in Green Bay or like, oh, that answer usually would
have ended this agreement. And here comes another question or
here comes and and it's led to some odd moments
and and led to some couldn't even get the opening
dress shirt and his meeting with the media, remember that,
I mean people, Yeah, he got crushed for that. I

(29:36):
think he finally felt what it was like to be
a female sports reporter. People didn't care what he was saying,
they cared what he was wearing. I felt for Mike.
I wanted to consult Mike that day, but I thought
to myself, the Cowboys didn't give you a heads up
on this. That to me, as ridiculous as that sounds, Bobby,
that to me was like the first like, oh my god,

(29:56):
he does not know what he's about to walk into. Yeah,
and and to be fair, he may uh he may
turn that around and and he may adjust to well.
I actually there have been times this season where I've
been impressed with the way when when your report came out,
whereas I felt like there were times that um, you know,
Jerry in that interview got gotta clearly it touched a nerve.

(30:18):
I thought Mike McCarthy handled it pretty well and said,
you know, these are these are things that you know,
this is what this is a normal occurrence when teams
are losing, you get unhappiness. And there have been times
this year where I've been like, Okay, I'm impressed he
handled that well, he did that well. And then there
have been other times where it hasn't. And so I mean,
I want to leave room for the possibility that he
will be able to ultimately adjust to this. And and

(30:38):
he's seen a lot of football and and he's able
to uh come back stronger and know the things that
he he he needs to change. And this is a
guy who who's rebranded himself on self reflection, So hopefully
he does some that this offseason and is better prepared.
And to be very clear, I don't wish failure for anyone.

(30:59):
I have a short I was gonna say I wish failure.
I would on some people and never said that. It's
out loud. But there's a few. Mike's not on that list.
I like Mike. I find him entertaining. He needs to
keep talking that menu of love, light in the tone.
If I was helping him with the media, I would
tell him, you know, throw them, throw them some nuggets,
go back to some of those one liners that I

(31:21):
call it the Jerry strategy, diffuse, deflect, uh, just get
through the season. I want to see him succeed. I
would have liked to have seen what he would have
done with a healthier team. I don't know if Mike
Nolan's the guy for him on defense. I still feel
like they tried to throw too much too soon at
these guys. They expected guys to adapt in a year

(31:46):
that it was hard to get these guys to understand
schematically what they were asking. I mean, none of us
even got it when they were talking about it. Remember
it was like or four three three four. It's exotic,
like think about like what you saw like when they're
playing New Orleans. So all of us were kind of confused.
So I can only imagine then trying to explain that
to some of the players, and the fact that players

(32:06):
were abandoning it so publicly so early. I think they
tried to do too too much too soon. I think
they've wisely scaled it back. I think they've had some
of the tough discussions. I just again, I don't know
if we'll see if this coaching staff remains in Tech
next season, but I wholeheartedly believe Mike's back. I want

(32:29):
to see Mike succeed. I would ask you playing Devil's advocate,
and I hate doing this because I hear Mike is
a lovely guy. Hadn't gotten the chance to really get
to know him. But if there was a defensive guy
that's out there, who would you want to see come
to Dallas? Um, do you want to dan Quinn? I see,
I don't know. I know a lot of people wouldn't

(32:49):
want dan Quinn here, UM, but I wouldn't be opposed
to dan Quinn being here. I would. I would absolutely
be in favor of if dan Quinn's looking for a
rebound year, to call a defense and doesn't necessarily need
a head coaching job, needs to, you know, build his
credibility back up. I'm totally down with dan Quinn coming
in here and being your defensive coordinator, and that being
another guy who came from the Saban. He was on

(33:10):
staff with Jason Garrett on Nick Saban's staff in Miami.
So that's the guy who comes from that same sort
of culture heavy and and has a guy who has
succeeded with a lot of big personalities the way he
did in Seattle and and calling that defense. And so
I'd be in favor of of dan Quinn as an option.
I don't I don't know. I don't know that there's
a I don't know that there's a Lincoln Riley of

(33:32):
defense out there. Um you know, I think that, Um goodness,
what's I think one name that's up and coming that
may turn out to be that guy? Is that? What's
what's the name of Rod Marinelli's son in law over
with the rams Berry is that? What's his name? What's
his name? Why am I thinking that's his name? Whatever
his name is there there there are a few coaches.
It's not the glamorous thing that offensive play calling is

(33:54):
and then that sort of design, And so I don't
know that there's anybody that's stands out like that. Um.
Usually those type of people that stand out standout in
league circles. There are people within the league who know
that's an up and coming defensive but it's not necessarily
something that's discussed in the media. UM, so it is.
I would I would like the idea of Dan Quinn
on this staff, though, UM, I mean the coach I

(34:16):
wanted I was hoping for if there was a buy
out and with his job or something like that, I
had hoped that they would pursue Mike Zimmer. I thought
Mike Zimmer would be a really good fit here, and
I thought it'd be an easy sell the Cowboys fans
of Oh that's from years past, and yeah, there's some nostalgica.
That's a guy would have liked. But Minnesota had decided
they wanted to keep him and so, and Darren Woodson

(34:37):
is not the only player that loves Terrence Newman is
one of his biggest fans. Terence Newman had a house
here for a long time, and when he retired, Mike
Zimmer retained him as as his staff. I mean, players
absolutely love him. Coaches love Mike Zimmer. That would have
been very intriguing. But yeah, to your point, he wasn't available.
I know your defensive name, go hire Maddie loose Well.

(35:02):
You know how I feel about Matthew. I know you
that's that's your guy. But he's not going to leave Indianapolis.
Big fan of Frankwright, big fan of the GM there,
Chris said Chris ballard um. I think that they like
with what they're doing there. I think they still need
to figure out, you know, the offensive side of the ball.

(35:22):
But I think they like what they're doing there. And
I wouldn't be surprised if you Troy Collars at him.
I know you kicked that around on Twitter, loved it.
That would that would make some sense. Patricia's out there, man,
I think for I think, yeah, I think for the gruff.
I think for a year where people are talking about
maybe some tense interactions with coaches and players. I don't
know that MAP. I don't know that Matt Patricia. And

(35:44):
now I'm curious. I love Matt Patricia. Let me tell you.
Matt Patricia. He's like a literal rocket scientist. He's a
smart guy. I love the gruffier coaches. That's why you
know you would think Mike McCarthy be my best buddy.
I love the gruffy coat. Ug Barron love him. Bill
O'Brien love it. Matt Patricia love it, Bill Belichick love him.

(36:06):
I'll be interesting where Matt Patricia ends up. I mean,
it's if we go by history, it's been tough sledding
for Belichick assistance with our league, Bobby, we're talking about
this coaching carousel of these older coaches that have been
around for a while, and then we've got Christoph Schard
just chilling out here. Yeah, And I think Kristo Shard
is a guy who should and I think will get

(36:27):
consideration for bigger jobs in the off season. And I
think that especially when you see the struggles that have
gone on in Dallas, people are probably gone, Oh, maybe
that wasn't a Christo Shard problem, Maybe that wasn't a
Rod Mayorali problems. Christa Schard described to us ability alignment
that you put them in the best position to succeed
with the ability that you have on your personnel. Um,

(36:47):
I'm gonna tell you when we walked away from our
conversation and we try as reporters really to get as
many sides the story as possible. Right, the narrative couldn't
have been more off on Christopher Shard in his final year.
And I found myself after that going either he's really
good at these TED talks, or that many people that

(37:10):
I talked to he just rubbed the wrong way. It was.
It was fascinating when I walked away from that conversation
with them, because I got to tell you, I could
have had a three hour podcast with Chris, not just
about football, but about life. And I think the players
in your locker room that are all under the age
of thirty, I think they gravitate towards that. I think

(37:33):
that's interesting to them. But it's fascinating to me that
that didn't work better in Dallas. I could see if
it rubbed veterans the wrong way or whatever else, or
you know. I mean, that was such a weird year
last year, where I think everybody kind of felt like
so much of the coaching staff was on the way out.
That may have made it awkward or may have caused
for uh, you know, feeling like, man, we're playing for

(37:54):
lame duck coaches and this guy's getting on my case,
and he's not even coming back next year. I wonder
how much that Maybe it was just a an odd
dynamic there. Um, but it is, you know, speaking to that,
you know, reputation versus reality. I'm curious, and I know
we'll get to Darren Woodson here after this last question,
because I know we did. I just decided to, like,

(38:16):
I mean, you and I might as well have had
beers at this time. I talked about it and unpacked
in a while. I've got a lot of thoughts and
I wasn't gonna bring them up in the podcast and
get here there and now and now that here they are.
I'm curious because, uh, you've been around the league more
than I have. You Like, you've seen the way things
operate in other cities, is what I made. Um, Yeah,

(38:37):
I'm curious. You know I've always in the whole time
I've covered the team was the Jason Garrett Er, So
I was used to the walk off being a thing?
Is that a thing with other head coaches? Do other
coaches do that sort of thing? Where? And for those
who don't know, it's you have a press conference? Jason
would often give a little bit more vanilla answers and
then the walk off, he'd give you a little bit
more candid answers with recorders off, and he talked to

(38:59):
you and so all the stuff you could talk about afterwards.
Some of it was just you know, the reporter knowledge.
Is that a common thing? And if it is, do
you think when things return to normal, that Mike McCarthy
will do something like that? And would that benefit Mike
McCarthy to be able to do that? So, so do
you think that the ability do you think the lack
of a walk off has potentially hurt Mike McCarthy in

(39:19):
terms of being able to explain his messaging more than
potentially anything else has. Kevin Stefanski said something today that
was God. I wish I could remember the verbatim what
he said. One of his players had essentially said that
the Titans weren't a super team like another words, a

(39:39):
super Bowl team, and he was asked, how do you
feel about that? And to paraphrase, he essentially said he didn't.
This isn't what he said, but I'm paraphrase. He essentially said,
he doesn't manage the words of his players. I think
where Mike went wrong, and this isn't me just being

(40:00):
a bitter reporter that doesn't have access to players. This
is I think if you if Mike had been a
little bit more approachable with the reporters and not put
this like a lid on the team, it wouldn't feel
like it wouldn't feel so like we're insulating. In other words,

(40:25):
like because it feels like when you just allow your
team to be your team and you allow them to
have their own distinct personnel. When I think of some
of these teams in the league that allow teams that
I cover that allow their players to be uniquely who
they are. Look at Lamar Jackson and Jim and John
Harveley just lets him be who he is. Cam Newton,

(40:46):
for that matter, has just been uniquely who he is
under Bill Belchian. Everyone said that was never gonna happen, right,
I thought that was interesting this year um Sean Payton
allows Cam Jordan to be Cam Jordan's um. Jason Garrett
allowed DeMarcus Lawrence and Ezekiel Elliott to be It's interesting
because you said pointing that out, it's just done. I
on me now, I don't know that I ever heard

(41:07):
Jason Garrett ever get asked about something a player had
said I think generally, like I don't recall like this
player said this in the locker room. This one's kind
it seems now that you say that, I would say,
whatever does and you're talking to about But I feel
like this year, these guys are like sort of like
on like pins and needles as it relates. And again,

(41:29):
it is so hard to judge Mike McCarthy as a
head coach because this is such a weird sample size
and a weird year. But again, then I'll just compare
it to what I'm seeing from other Baker Mayfield has
been answering questions and press conferences using rap lyrics this year,
like yeah, well, I mean, you gotta be quirky when

(41:50):
when things aren't going great on the field, though, so right,
But my point, and again maybe this is an unfair comparison.
It just feels like this team is so tight here
and I don't know what to make of that. And
to your point, though, Mike, when I met Mike ahead
of the season, ahead of COVID, he's a cool dude.

(42:12):
Like in fact, when he got hired, I was excited
about it because I would see him at combine and
be like, that's a cool dude, you can just go
up and talk to him like he'll shoot the breeze
with you. I don't know what it was about Dallas
or what it was about this season, but it literally
became a sort of this us against them mentality, And

(42:33):
I don't know if that helped him. I think I
think he was used to I think he was used
to controlling messaging in Green Bay, and I think that
I think that he realized he couldn't do that here anymore.
But I will tell you knowing what I know now,
just to peel the curtain back for fans and listeners
that don't know how this thing works. The most successful
in the coaches in the league media wise, tend to

(42:56):
have the best relationships reporters. They if they don't like story,
they text him. When I report something that a coach
doesn't like, I hear about it. But there's a direct communication,
and when there's a direct communication, there's a trust there
is I'm going to tell you this, this is the why.
So you're not wildly speculating, well, and and and to

(43:18):
be clear, because I don't want anybody to misunderstand what
you're saying. This is not this coach isn't open to me,
so I'm gonna screw him. This is not it. This
is literally the reporter can only go off of what's
available to them. So it's not out of spite, but
just sometimes things get lost because you don't have the
information that the coach doesn't want to share. You can't
correct it. You don't know that, particularly in this year

(43:41):
when you have not been able to have those relationships
with the coaching staff that I've had in the past.
And I'm not saying just me, I'm saying any of
the reporters. Um, I think if I would have had
him do it all over again. Tom Herman tried to

(44:01):
do this in Austin once. By the way, he just
went about it the wrong way. I would have had
an off the record conversation with reporters, said, here's my
cell phone. I'm excited about being in this market. This
is gonna be a weird year. Guys, don't abuse this
phone number. But let's talk some things through as the
season develops, so that we can all sort of get

(44:21):
on the same page and you can get a sense
of who I am and who you are. You know,
we talked about the players, uh that in his Locker
had it was essentially mug shots of the local media
because he liked to remember their names. I guess what
the media haw hat it up. It's no different than

(44:42):
just your interactions in the office or when you go
to the grocery store or you go to home depot
and you remember so and so's name. It resonates. It
just feels like all year there's been a wall between
the Cowboys, coaching staff, players and the media. And in
a market like this, I think it's hard to succeed.

(45:03):
I think Joe Judge is seeing that in New York.
Judge is experiencing that. I don't think it's unique to
just Dallas. I think it's unique to the situation, the city,
the market. And again this is not the whining reporter thing.
If I was advising Mike, that would have been my recommendation.
I I talked to somebody recently who has an understanding

(45:25):
and and and has a good knowledge of the inner
workings of players and coaches within the Cowboys, and had
said that they had asked a couple of guys recently, like,
you know, what's what's the deal there with you guys
this year? Like it seems like there's a huge disconnect
what's going on? And Uh, these players, I guess he
talked to it said that, you know, man, it's honestly

(45:47):
that they felt like it was about the camaraderie that
the COVID stuff had just gotten become. It become such
a built in block for the guys to develop that
like familial bond that they had gotten so used to
with each other, and that that they feel like I
guess a lot of guys feel like that's been the
biggest hurdle for them. It's just, man, we can't we
can't you know, sustain that brotherhood we normally have. We

(46:08):
we can't you know, do our dinner nights together with
each other. We can't go out, you know for drinks
on a you know, a bye week, or we can't
do this or that. And it's I think that that's
not only a issue for you know us and communicating
messaging and you know, coach to media and player to
media things. It seems like that's an issue internally for
players to players, position groups to position groups, and players

(46:31):
to coaches potentially that it builds in like that. I'm
not saying that it's wrong, but I'm just saying I
feel like this year, I don't know about you, but
this year, you know, working at NFL Network, I've got
colleagues in Philadelphia, Chicago, l A, whatever. I have grown

(46:54):
closer to my colleagues this year than ever because we're
all sort of working from home. We FaceTime. I think
we're looking for somebody that gets what we're doing in
this unique space and time more than like our outside world.
So not on the flip. On the flip, I would

(47:15):
say though, that they're naturally supposed to be that close
during a regular year that they're supposed to be training
with each other through the summer, they're doing veteran lead
workouts where it's just the players are leading them. Coaches
aren't even involved. And this year there are locks to
where you're not even if you're a corner and you
have a buddy who's a defensive end, like you guys
can't even be around each other in the facility, like

(47:36):
you're not even there's rules like and now you're talking
about naturally because it has to after what happened, and
never you're talking about keeping an entire player on your
roster out of the meeting room, like no, you just
learned remotely. So I think there is some I just
I think families are tight because your parents forced you
to be tight, like in your own household. Is it

(47:57):
important to you that your daughters, because they're thick as thieves,
are close. See you encourage them to fight or do
you encourage them to make up, do things together, protect
your sister, love your sister? Where does that come from? Yeah?
I mean I think I think that that, Yeah, that
comes from the desire to you know, see them close
and and bond as a family thing. But on that

(48:19):
flip side, then let's also say, you know, my daughter's
like Addison, okay, you're you're seven, and you know Laura
you're four. Okay, so but you've got to be with
the four year olds over here, Laura. And even though
you guys, I want you to have these bonds, you're
gonna have to do it remotely, and you're gonna have
to do it like I mean, I think that there's
a little bit it's driving a little bit of a wedge.
I think like whereas naturally and not to woo poo

(48:41):
your your analogy because I think it's a fair one.
But you know, with the colleagues that you have. You
guys all work in different cities already, so that you know,
it just it didn't change the way you guys see
each other normally. Um, it just activated maybe, hey, we've
got more time to interact with each other now, whereas
they are used to being all around each other and
in the same meeting rooms together, and now it's saying,

(49:03):
you know, hey, we still want you guys to be
tight like that, but split up. And not only just
split up, but like this is from a team that
coming off last year's seemed to have some chemistry issues
and seem to have some problems of of you know,
relationships and things like that, and so I think it
was tough to address that and fix it in an
error where it's like, oh, and you guys all have
to be split up and you all have you're getting

(49:23):
introduced to new coaches. You're not even dealing with the
same coaches that you have known for the last four
or five, six, seven years. I love playing psychologists, even
though I don't have agree. I think I actually think
it's more than that. I think when you see this
sort of disconnect, it comes from fear, and I don't
think some of these players feel invested in. I think
there's fear some of them may not be back, So

(49:46):
why get tight with these guys with the coaching staff
if you're not coming back? And I think that that's
where some of the checkout is. Um. I think there's
a lot of uncertainty in that building. And if you
if you look debt that that thirteen in three season
and Dak Prescott came in, I still keep going back

(50:07):
to that year because it was it really was such
a unique, remarkable year. That team was so close, they
protecting each other, they looked after each other, and honestly,
heading into the season, the team was so close. When
you heard him talk about Dak, and I do believe
like to your point, Dak was literally the glue that

(50:32):
that binds. And I think with his own admission of
his struggles, I think just a lot of these guys
just weren't mentally strong this year. And I don't think
you had a coaching staff um like the Rod Marinelli's
of the world, who are giving you um books and
literature and talking to you about things other than football,

(50:53):
where you feel invested in and then you want to
fight for people. I had a mentor that I work
with that at the beginning of this quarantine team told
me be a fountain, not a dream. And he wasn't
talking about my on camera performance, it was he's checking
in with me mentally. I felt invested in You want
to run through walls for guys like that. I don't

(51:13):
know if this coaching staff has done that. I think
that I think that's fair to be good at your job,
but I'm saying, if you're going to and this is
my it's a terror up. This is why I'm not
a lawyer because I can't present well. But I feel
like there's a psychology component to this where when you
feel these players sort of flippantly dismiss the coaching staff,

(51:36):
you don't flippantly dismiss people that invest in any well
and think think about what they're coming off of. So
like just running through my head really quickly. Jason Garrett,
who everybody knows the way he invested in his players.
John Kittner, who told us when we interviewed him that
he's close enough to Dak that he literally has Dak
FaceTime his teenage son to tell him to do his
football drills. That's how how close they are. Kellen Moore,

(51:57):
who's still on staff. But Kellen Moore, guy who was
on the roster a few years ago and transitioned into coaching,
so he's considered one of them. Mark Colombo on the
offensive line, who was one of the guys, a guy
that they basically lobbied to get that job. And then
about the young guy who'd been close and who'd done
it that you relate to. They got that even but
even a guy like Rod Minnelli, who's older, he still
connects with his guys and he found a way to

(52:19):
connect to them and and you know, reach them. And
you've got a guy who, for as much as there's
all this chances, when you feel like someone's giving you
a second chance, you feel investment. You want to run
through walls for them. Chris Richard, who said uh, told
us he said his goal is he said, it's not
about the team. He's like, it's about being a tribe

(52:40):
existing for one another. And and you talk about an
entire coaching staff. Gary Brown told us some of the
same things. Gary Brown, who you know it was like
a father, figured all the running backs in the room
going from that too. COVID isolation and all new people,
even if they've tried you got to think there's you know,
even if they tried to reach guys like that, which

(53:01):
I don't know if they have or they haven't, but
even if they tried, it's a brand new start for everybody.
That's you know, it's kind of like you don't know
me like that, Like I mean that that there's gotta
be some some trust, there, some some built in respect,
I think, and you know, I think that that's probably
been a big I would guess that's something that the
Cowboys had not. But then why are we seeing teams

(53:25):
fight for the Ron Rivera's of the world and go
eight and three in Cleveland with the Kevin's Deefantsky in
his first year and his coaching staff. Um, and those
are just two examples, right, I'm that Rule when we
look at his locker room after when doesn't that one
which which is like I know, I've known I've known

(53:46):
several I know personally three or four guys that played
for Matt Rule, and all three or four them when
he got hired by the Panthers, they were like, I
do anything I could to get to Carolina because I
love that guy. And so like, I mean, I know,
like Matt Rule is that guy. I guess that's the
thing is that we just don't know that Mike McCarthy
is that guy. Not to be fair, Mike McCarthy is
trying with his you know, his watermelons and his other things.

(54:08):
So maybe he's trying, and it's just it's not reaching them.
It feels like I didn't even know who that comedian was,
did you? Oh? Yeah, but I mean I did, yeah,
But I mean I know everything you know that. I
don't know if these younger guys even knew who that comedian, right,
They just may have thought it was funny that he
was smashing watermelons that said Dalvin Cook's name on it
or something. But I do know that there are coaches

(54:30):
in this leak that put a lot of effort into
that pregame speech and bringing in mascots of a particular player,
or they roll out massive speakers and smoke machines, and
the event that they win, like it's more than the
game plan. It's the culture, it's the atmosphere, it's the
it's all the stuff that you need to get guys

(54:53):
to buy in. And I just haven't heard and I'm
not saying it hasn't happened I just haven't heard about
that stuff that, you know, you know what, I think,
you know what, I think maybe the most damning example
to me of the culture to this point has failed
is I don't think it was any secret to anybody

(55:14):
that by the time he was traded, Everson Griffin wanted
out of here, Like Everson Griffin didn't want to be
a Cowboy anymore. And that was seven game career or
something with the Cowboys. Uh, what was your report when
they signed Everson Griffin? Why did Everson Griffin come here
because of Mike McCarthy. That is a dude who chose

(55:34):
his free agency destination fully buying into the culture and
the staff, and after seven weeks went never mind. So
I think about guys who may have had skepticism or
hurt feelings about losing their buddy Jason Garrett or who thought, yeah, okay,
I mean, well we'll give it a shot. We're talking
about a guy who went in here like eyes wide,
literally if you saw the Twitter video, eyes wide, like yeah,
I'm in, I'm buying in, and two months later said

(55:57):
get me the hell out of here. That's is something
I think, Yeah, I mean, I don't want to be unfair.
I'm just saying I think we can only be because
because because we can only be told so much, and
you and you and I can only sit here and
speculate based on what we've heard, who we talked to,

(56:17):
who we source some of this with, and then try
and fill in the blanks as to why this has
been such an excruciatingly painful season both to watch but
also statistically for this group. Because you know these players.
I know these players, and you know that they are
capable of more, yes, And I think they know that

(56:39):
they know they've they know they've done more together before,
and I think that it's probably easy for them to
internally look and say, we've done better than this together before.
We know we can play together, so so where's the disconnect?
What's changed? And I think it's easy for them to
look and say, well, this has changed above us. I

(57:00):
don't know about our listeners, but this was fairly cathartic
for me. It was good. You know, it's been it's
been a tough season to cover um pulling back the
curtain again a little bit. Jane and I were talking
as we led into this to lead into our darren
Woods and everywhere like we'll probably lead into this for
like five minutes, and so it's been like forty five.
So yeah, this was unexpectedly. I feel like we needed this.
I know the fancy this, but I think you and

(57:22):
I have just struggled to find the answers as much
as probably ownership the front office, agents, coaches, players go
down the list. You and I literally grew up in
this area. We're objective reporters, but we've developed relationious with
these guys. You want to see this team turn the page.

(57:44):
But I lied. I thought we were going to talk
about pop culture references, and like I said, we just
literally maybe we should maybe the fans should invoice us. Yeah,
we we've been been this out loud with them. Yeah.
We we just did the therapy session with them. Yeah
it's that's good. But and now we can talk to UH.
We're gonna roll into two good conversations, one with coming

(58:06):
up after this first one. We're gonna talk to David
Robinson to wrap things up about Dez Bryant. But we're
gonna lead things off today with UH for a fifth
time Pro Football Hall of Fame semifinalist Darren Woodson. Joining
us now is Darren Woodson. He is a former safety
for the Dallas Cowboys, a five time Pro Bowler, a
four time All Pro, and three time Super Bowl champion,

(58:28):
and also for the fifth time a semifinalist for the
Pro Football Hall of Fame. That's one of the things
we're gonna talk to him about today. And also the
host of the new Darren Woodson Show, which how long
have you been doing that now, Darren, it's just been
about a month or two. No, No, we've been doing
it about seven months now and we're finally starting to

(58:49):
understand what we're talking about and show. But Bill, Bobby
and Jane, good seeing you as well. Uh, it's been awesome.
You know. I've partnered with Tyler Klutz, who is a
former Cowboy, played a couple of number of years, played
all over the league. Actually you know, always kid him.
I said, he probably played for thirty one of the
thirt or two teams out there. But uh, and another

(59:12):
friend named Ben Gibbs, and we started this podcast based
on the based on the fact that you know, we
were all transitioning from the NFL and then now into
business and it was a tough transition for for all
three of us. And that's the reason why we started
were not only we talking sports, but we're talking business
at the same time, we're just talking life. So it's

(59:33):
a it's been a blast, man. You know, it's funny
to bring that up. One of my favorite sit downs
with the player is DeMarcus Ware. We did an event
with with video and so it's you know, Taylor based
towards more of a business audience. So we're marrying what
he did as an athlete with obviously what he did
when he transitioned a business. Not only is it, I

(59:57):
think our route awakening for so many players what life
looks like when you don't have the jersey and you
no longer or have the helmet and you know, longer,
especially if you're used to being a Dallas cowboy. I mean,
you and I can talk about that. There is a
big drop off there. But for those that are ill
prepared for it, I feel for them, and so I
think that there is obviously, I gotta imagine a lot
of guys come to you because you've been so successful,

(01:00:19):
not only in the business world, but in the media world.
I mean, you did such a dynamic job with with ESPN.
But I'm sure Michael Irving would speak to this travel
and when you've got a young family, it's it becomes
a bit of a challenge. But are you enjoying this
notion of managing your message something that players didn't necessarily
get to do before podcast and being able to put

(01:00:42):
out your own content. I love it. I mean I
honestly I love slogan I am right now in life
because there's just, you know, there's just so many possibilities
out there right now, and there's no control factors, specifically
when I'm going on a podcast, there are no control factors.
You know, Like I spent fourteen years at ESPN and Jane,
you will know that you only have a few minutes

(01:01:03):
and you gotta get your message out. And if there's
an interview process, you really don't get to the core
of the interview. You never really don't get to know
of the person you're interviewing. Peyton Manning and that that
is a two and a half three minute interview at
tops and he's not giving you a whole lot. He's
giving you the politically correct answer, and he gives you
a little bit here and there, but you don't really
get to know Peyton Manning. And it was you know,

(01:01:26):
us doing a podcast and doing an interview with Troy Aikman,
who I've known forever, and we go through this podcast
interview and we're peeling back the onion and he's saying
he's talking about things that he's never talked about about
his life and his journey and the obstacles and thought
about quitting football. And I never knew that about it.
And I know Troy for twenty some years. It didn't

(01:01:49):
know those things about it. So that's those are the
safeguards that are off And that's the reason why I
love doing the podcast. Now you know why I'm addicted
to what I do for a living there, and it's because,
as you, I think all of us are listeners that
are listening to this this the fans that watch these
sports shows were led by curiosity, and I think we

(01:02:12):
are naturally drawn to people that have done it. For you,
it was you did it with the Dallas Cowboys. You're
doing it as a businessman, you're doing as a podcast.
But I am fascinated when I watched these guys Taylor
of the one, Cam Jordan's mark Ingram that are doing
this podcast thing. Now, can you who would you have

(01:02:33):
done a podcast? With when you played if you Can
do Michael Michael, two guys Michael Urban, Dion Sandres hands
that that it'd be a help of podcast. The only
thing I could have. Here's my role in the podcast.
Make sure they show up my role because once I

(01:02:53):
get them in the building and put the mica from them,
it's just go. And those two guys bring soonality. Uh,
they're intuitive, they understand, you know, what it takes to
be successful. And not only that, but they're gonna do
their Those two are gonna do their reach. I know
for a fact they're going to do their research. And
those are the guys that I would say I definitely

(01:03:15):
would have teamed up with and would have if podcasts
were around back then, we would have definitely did one.
You can still do it. I think our fans would
listen to that one. I know that Dion is doing
stuff with Barstool. Michael's got his own pod. Now I
think you guys should I think you guys should talk
about this. Yeah, well we well we probably do. We'll
probably do some things together. But for me it's it's

(01:03:38):
it's you know, I got two guys that that that
I love dearly. We're all family. Men. We were all
on the same page, and you know, I don't have
to worry, so they're they were he showing up and
being at all time. So it's a little different dynamic,
you know. Uh. We mentioned at the start of this
that you are a semi finalist for the Pro Football
Hall of Fame again this year. And uh, one of

(01:04:00):
my favorite stories I've I've ever heard somebody tells, uh
Dave Campo tells the story about going to Arizona State,
UH to actually watch Philippi Sparks at his pro day,
and that while he was there, he said he sees
this linebacker who's running like a four three forty and
he's like, who the hell's that guy? Okay, and he
said he came back and he said he told jim

(01:04:21):
He's like, I don't know if he play linebacker or
safety or corner or what, but this dude runs for
three and he's big, and like, we need to just
get him here and we'll figure it out. And he
says the next year, after your rookie year, that Jimmy
comes up to him and goes, uh, hey, Dave, we're
gonna We're gonna play Darren. Darren's gonna start at safety
next year, and Dave was like, I don't know. I mean,

(01:04:43):
he's still young and there's some rawn us there and
yet and then he said, Jimmy, goes Dave, I said,
we're gonna start Darren at safety and goes, Okay, Jimmy,
He's gonna be the best damn safety in the league
pretty quick. But with that sort of flexibility of man,
is he a corner, a linebacker, safety, and all the
different things you could do on the football field, and
all the different things you were asked to do in
your career, whether we play in the nickel or coming

(01:05:04):
up and playing in the box or playing deep. Uh,
do you think that that hurt your case at all
in terms of because you didn't have the numbers, you
weren't able to play at one spot and just collect
numbers as a safety or as a corner or anything else.
Do you think that that people have you were almost
too good at at too many things that you weren't
able to just do one and show people, hey, look

(01:05:24):
I'm elite in this one area and and I should
be in That's in my argument with Mike Zimmer forever,
and I blame Mike Zimmer for the fact that I'm
not in the home and I'm joking by that. But
what I would say is is that when I came
into the league, I spent time in four years with
Lovey Smith in college at Arizona State, and Lovey Smith

(01:05:45):
taught me hands down how to cover in the slot.
So I wasn't I played linebacker, but at the same time,
I was covering slot receivers, wide receivers, tight ends, blitzing
off the edges. I did a little bit of everything
back then. So when I came into the NFL, yeah,
they thought I was a tweener. They didn't know if
I was gonna be a linebacker or safety or whatnot.

(01:06:05):
But when I came in the first year, they saw
that I could cover. And I didn't play the safety spot.
My first year, I played the nickel. I was covering
the slot receiver. I was covering the Tony Gonzalez. Is
that as a tied end, I was covering guys like
that that that were, you know, dynamic tight ends because
because the ability that I had. So when when I
came in, when and when Mike Zimmer came as a

(01:06:26):
deepest coordinator, he said, the first thing he said was,
look I'd love to play you at safety, but we
can do so much and the defense can be so
much more flexible if I can disguise you and bring
you down to walk you down to the say we
don't have to bring a nickel back in. We'll just
walk you down and cover the slot receiver. Or if
there's a dynamic tied end, we don't have to bring
someone else in. We just walk you down to play this.

(01:06:49):
And I accepted those challenges. I love the fact, but
I mean one of my biggest problems is that I
love the fact that I had to match up with
Jerry Rice in the slot. I mean I took on
that challenge not as a safety, but as a nickel
guy that could cover him in the slot. So that
didn't hurt me in the long end because I didn't
play the middle of the field and go get those interceptions.

(01:07:10):
Probably so. But the one thing I did have is
I have three Super Bowl rings, and you know, I
wouldn't trade that for a billion, you know, Jackets, it's
it's you know, what I earned. And I've always felt like,
you know, my role with this team was to do
whatever it took to win football games. That called for
me to play the slot receiver or tied in or whatnot,

(01:07:31):
man to man situation. So be it. You know, I'm
gonna add one of the more fascinating things I can
remember in my sports career was Sharene Williams showed me
the binder that she used to I don't think a
lot of people realize that it's the reporters that essentially
it's a school project. Tell us everything you know about
this particular player, and here's why they should go in

(01:07:52):
the Hall of Fame. My thoughts on that are as
a player. Do you guys ever talking eternally that maybe
the writers shouldn't be making that. In other words, it
should be more of the players that are doing that.
That's a great question. That is a great question. It Uh. Look,

(01:08:18):
you know, I have a lot of respect for the writers.
You know there and a lot of those writers like
Sharne and Rick Goslin have been around a long time
and been following the game. And I don't only just
following the game, but been big beat writers and have
been in those locker rooms for a long time. And
I respect that. I think there is something to say about,
you know, the players or the gms or the coaches

(01:08:41):
who had a game plan you and play against you,
having some kind of say and who probably should be Absolutely,
I definitely do because I know that you know when
you play against certain guys like a Steve Smith, who
had to deal with in the slot. I mean he
told me he a monster the first battle at Hall

(01:09:02):
of Famer, as good as he was, because I have
to think about him every single day. But the writers
probably won't think that way. They don't know that, They
probably won't see how how he really impacted the entire week,
not just in the slot, but as a kick returner
or punt return He brought so much agin the game
plan this guy and think about him in so many ways.

(01:09:23):
So I don't know if the writers think about that value,
that part of the value. I know the coaches and
the players and the g ms absolutely no those sides
and those little small nuggets that are in there and
look to be clear, like I said, like I don't.
I don't think anyone listen to this would interpret that,
and I hope not. And so I want to clarify
it's not a knock on trate. I mean when I

(01:09:44):
say it was a binder, that's the one that I
want in my corner. I mean the way she fought
for Charles Hayley to make sure that he got on there.
But I look at a guy like Drew Pearson and
having worked with him doing a TV show and then
becoming fronts with him, seeing how much that hurt him,
and that those things matter to a lot of these

(01:10:06):
legacy players. You've got to think that teammates and Drew's
probably true. People that played against Drew, solemn play, coaches, GMS,
he would have been in here already. I don't know
what the hold up is Withdrew. If you if you
guys ever kind of talked about that a much. Absolutely,
I've told Drew Less the reason why I never liked
the Cowboys when I was a kid, this was because

(01:10:28):
of Drew Pearson. Hated Drew Pearson. I was the biggest
Steelers fan and the guy that would make the big
plays at the end of the game was going to
be stallback to Pearson and I to sit there and go, goodness,
can't we cover that dude? But he was that he
was so big back then when I was a kid,
guys in the in the Pop Warner leagues used to

(01:10:50):
want to wear their hair like Drew Peterson because how
much of an impact he made uh to this game.
So yeah, I just you know, there's there's a lot
of painting then when you're a competitor, when you're someone
that played this game at a high level, and I
know people always say, well, my identity wasn't you know,
I'm one of those says my identity wasn't wrapped in football.

(01:11:10):
But it's something that I did and I took it
serious and I showed up every day and there was
a reason why I was a captain for eleven years
of that defense because I took the game seriously. It
meant something to me. So once you get past these points,
when you've won Super Bowls and you've been the playoff
games and you've done so much, you still want to
be recognized for for your efforts. And that's one of

(01:11:32):
those efforts that I want to be recognized for. I
want to be recognized as the one of the best
that ever did it because I laid it on the line.
Who presents for you, Darren? My examiner presents for me.
God that I'm blaming right now because it was beyond football.

(01:11:55):
It was way beyond football. You know. I've seen and
have cried with what had been happy and open champagne bottles.
After Super Bowl wins, I sat with him and cried
on the bench. Uh he's been there every step of
the way in my career. Wasn't there my first year.
But you know it just our relationship transcends football, it

(01:12:21):
really does. I know his kids, every last one of them. Uh,
he knows every last one of my kids. And uh,
we're family. So Zimmer is the guy that's gonna bring
me in And speaking of uh, you know, recognition before
I asked one final question for her because I know
you gotta run. We appreciate you giving us some time.

(01:12:42):
I do know that I heard Brian brought us actually
on the radio the other day. Former Cowboys Scout Packers
had a lot of great guys on his teams over
the years, Brett Farve, Reggie White, things like I heard
him on the radio two days ago say the best
football player he ever had on his team was Darren
Woodson more than any of the other guys that he said,
Aaron Woodson could impact the game in more ways than

(01:13:02):
anybody else he ever had on his team. That was
the best pure just football player he had ever had
and so there are plenty of people who recognize it
from that personnel and game planning standpoint for sure, But
in terms of that getting recognized and then getting the
respect they deserve, that's a line we've heard a little
bit from Dak Prescott talking about, you know what, he
eventually wants to be paid. So a final question for

(01:13:25):
you here, Uh, what would you be doing if you
were in the front office for the Cowboys. Would you
be making the argument of, look, if we're in a
position to get one of these top quarterbacks, let's just
get one of them, let Dak walk or would you
just say no, just pay Doc. That's a that's a
special football player. You know what you have. You already
know what you have in Dak Prescott. You know he's
a tremendous leader. Uh, he's showing you on the film

(01:13:48):
on film every single day, and the film doesn't lie
every single day who he is out on practice field,
game day. He's grown as a football player. His team
makes absolutely admire him. Um, guys like myself who've been
in the league that played in this game and I
sit there and watch him in one of the luxuries
I do have, And Jamie, you will know. I see

(01:14:10):
you every day. But I office there at the Star
in Frisco and I look out that window overlooking the
practice field in the summertime when there's no one out there,
and he's not throwing to Marie Cooper or you know,
Ceedee Lamb. He's throwing to these I'm talking special team guys.
He's throwing to the sixth seventh receiver at the on

(01:14:32):
the hottest days, you know, in the afternoon. Man, this
is the guy who can't care less about the cameras
being on him. He just wants to get better. And
I'm watching him do this and it and the reason
why I'm so passionate about Dak Prescott because it reminds
me of a guy who who taught me about work
at work ethic, and that's Michael Irv. That's number eighty eight.
His work ethic was every single day. He was available

(01:14:56):
every single day, not only for self, but for others.
And that's how you start greatness. That's when you start
to build championship teams when you have players like that.
And Dac is that guy Bobby lied to you? Because
I've got one more. What is it about the safety
position in Dallas? That they can't seem to prioritize it

(01:15:16):
the way they did with you. They're gonna go draft
the guy, how about that early and talk to Jerry
and tell you to tell them that that's a glaring deficiency.
Every single year I've said it to Stephen many of times.
Drafted guy. Look, there was a time when Roy Williams

(01:15:38):
came in and I was I got drafted the second
round early on. But you know when Roy came in, uh,
and they drafted him I think at number eight in
the draft. For his first five years, there was no
one better than Roy Williams. I mean, he was lights
out at the position, but they drafted him early and
and and if you want an impact player like Earl
Thomas was a guy that got drafted early in the draft.

(01:15:59):
What do you see with him? Long lasting career, had
an unbelievable group. But if you really want to change
that position, you can't go out and get special teamers
and then make them safety. You can't draft a guy
in the six seventh round and hope and pray that
he becomes a safety. If you really want a guy
and you want a game change, or go ahead and
draft him. You see him in college. You see the

(01:16:19):
work that he's doing. You know he's a playmaker. Go
ahead and get him if you want to make that change.
And Cowboy fans hear this and say, preach brother Woodson, listen,
I told you ten minutes. I'm such a liar. I
kept your around so much longer. There are so many
other questions and stories I want from you, So hopefully

(01:16:42):
I'll come back and do the show at that. Hey,
just call me girl, you got my number, Malcolm on,
give me a show here. You're the best. Thank you
so much, all right, take care. Joining us now is
wide receivers trainer David Robinson. He is uh the personal
receiver first coach for several NFL players, but specifically the

(01:17:03):
one of most interest, probably the Cowboys fans, is that
Dez Bryant. You can follow him on Twitter at d
rob always open and always with a Z. Because they
they Twitter police came and got your original count, didn't they. Man,
they got me, they got me. I was I was
close to tenth as of followers to man, they got
they went, They went and got you, and they did

(01:17:24):
Claymac the same way. They just did the same way.
Had start all over. They're doing everybody dirty over the
music and everything like that. I guess first question for
you here, and we've already talked a little bit about
this Ravens game coming up. UM, but I'm curious, uh
when you look at how Desert performed so far. I mean,
he's he's got a couple of catches. Uh, he played
a lot um the last couple of games, has gotten

(01:17:46):
a lot of action. Uh. Where do you think he's
at right now? Um? Do you think he's he's somebody
that is going to be able to maintain his spot
in that rotation? Is he uh in good shape right now?
Is he in good spirits? What do you think about
his level of play right now? Well, I think he's
um doing a lot better than expected just watching footage
from him of where of practice, UM, from the you

(01:18:08):
know footage that he's been sending to me. He's been
dominating in practice. And there's no surprise to me that
that's why they moved him up so early and got
him activated, Because he's been dominating the number one defense
the corners pretty much daily in practice. So I think
once once Lamar just gets more comfortable with them, um
in the passing game and start you know trusting them
and throwing the ball more his way. I think he'll

(01:18:29):
be a lot more effective because he's been learning great routes.
He's been opened, I've been checking the film out. Um,
he's just not getting really much targets right now. I
think he's um a lot better shape than expected. And
I think game by game you can tell that he's
getting more in game shape as well. You know, I
think of so many people that I know probably said

(01:18:50):
this to you, d Rob, and to me, does is
never gonna play another game in the NFL. And if
you spend a little time around Does Bryant, you know
that can't is not in his vocabulary. Won't is not
in his vocabulary. Consistency was a bit of his issue.

(01:19:11):
When did you start to see him turn that corner? Well,
it was after um, he got clear um from his achilles,
like the second go round, Like when he first when
he first got released, I mean first got released from
his achilles. He really wasn't, um, you know, working out
as much. But as he's got better on it, as

(01:19:32):
it started to feel a lot better. Um, that's when
I really started to see the turn up on him.
And really, in my opinion, what really did. It was
the first workout in Baltimore. When he had the first
workout in Baltimore and they told him that he needed
to get in a lot more better shape. Um to
get on the meal plane, get on a diet. That's
when he got that text, like, man, when we get
back to Dallas, when you start doing more conditioning, more running,

(01:19:53):
and things of that nature. And it was music to
my ears because I've been saying the same exact thing,
and I'm glad it took a team, you know, let
him know that you're not You're not far from where
you need to be. You just need to get a
little bit more better shape. Do you ever think about
because I know I have, UM does sort of doesn't.
I've always gotten each other kind of the same person.

(01:20:15):
We like when people tell us we can't do something,
but more importantly, we tend to do better with bosses
that are nobs. John Hardball has always struck me as
one of those guys, one of my favorite coaches in
the league. Loves on you hard, but expects a lot.
Do you ever think about what his career might have

(01:20:37):
looked like if he had ended up with Baltimore and
not Dallas. Oh, definitely. I think the first go around
when the Cowboys first released them, um, had he been
you know, went on head and been in the right
mindspit Ryan my spit space and signed with Baltimore back then,
um should I think he probably have made another Pro
bowler or two with with John Harbar because he's very demanding,

(01:20:59):
holds his players a high standard. And not only that,
he's a player's coach. You know. Um, he's not gonna
you know, be your friend a lot and things of
that nature, but he's gonna push you and Rody hard
and that's what this is needed. So I definitely think
if he would have been in the right mindspace when
he first got released, he probably would have been to
another Pro Bowl or so. But it's not over. You know,
he's he's looking good now. Hard Work came to him

(01:21:21):
after practice one day after dad has made a crazy kitchen,
was like, man, you think you can play this week?
You know, and because the owners were asking him how
good he was looking, and uh so, I just know
that hard War really believes in him and wants him to,
you know, get that receiver room going because they need
some help. When you when we saw that video, go
viral of the receiver's coach making and running back catch

(01:21:42):
it that one way, My instinct was that Hardball had
told his coaches wait for that moment. In other words,
I also got the sense that when they brought him
to Baltimore, I think they they have had a good
handle and does that You need to dangle the carrot
a little bit, you need to hold the accountable. I

(01:22:03):
just wonder if they were waiting for that, that that
was planned. Yeah, exactly exactly. I mean because all the
other receivers were looking like men and that was a
great kitch. Yeah, it is funny. He handled it so well.
I thought he was a locker room cancer. I thought
he glew up at practice. I mean that was the

(01:22:24):
narrative about Dez. I think the way had like literally
like I thought. I thought, he did exactly what I
think you and I know, and Bobby, you've gotten it
known does too. He works great with the young guys.
He wants to be in there with the young guys.
He feeds off of helping others and the energy that
comes with football. And I think that he saw that

(01:22:46):
as an opportunity to show them how you respond in
those situations. So I loved it for Deaz personally, Yeah,
I died too. I did too. You know. It's funny
Jane mentioning there that he, you know, he likes to
help young guys. He likes to you know, kind of
be big brother, be that mentor. Um, it's funny. I've
I've been around when you've trained guys for you know,

(01:23:08):
three or four years now, um. And and you know
it was around before Desit started working with you. Have
been around since Dez started working with you, and you know,
seen you work with a lot of big name people
and and be out here at these training sessions with
guys like Pat Mahomes and and things like that. Um,
it's wild to me when you see the difference when
Dez is out there training is like other players are like,

(01:23:31):
what like they're almost star struck by Dez. Like even
other NFL players, it's like, oh my gosh, that's Dez Bryant.
Like I remember We're at at Baylor, Scott and White,
and you had these guys training for the draft who
were about to be in the league. We're about to
this and they were stopping in the weight room to
like take pictures of him down on the field. Because
it's like, oh my gosh, that's Dees Briant. Have you
ever outside waiting they heard that we were there interviewing

(01:23:51):
him and they were waiting outside in the cold, remember, yeah,
going like throwing up the X through the window, and
as a guy who hadn't played in the league in
two years, it's it's it's it's wild to me that
it's not just the fan base and you're talking about
how the owners checking up with hardball, like, hey, how's
Dez looking? Like I don't think that's the typical thing
for somebody who's signed to the practice squad in the

(01:24:12):
middle of the season. What is it? I mean, have
you ever seen that. You've been around a ton of
NFL players, have you ever seen somebody with that energy
that's almost like a superstar among other NFL players the
way does Bryant is the only person that I've seen
in that light. Um, it will probably be a b
Anthonio Brown, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Everywhere he goes, people

(01:24:34):
want to snap photos with them, you know things, and
then they're seen him working out. Everybody stops that they're
doing and just my grace towards the football field. Um,
that's the only that's the only person that I've seen
do that. Well, We'll be at a session and m
just be maybe three or four people on the field,
and some kids may spot them to see who it is,
and then we look up and it's like keys on
the side of the gate, just watching his work out,

(01:24:56):
you know. So yeah, it's it's that's the only other
person I've seen is a b alright, so be honest,
And I know that does gives you the latitude to
do this. Where was he at when he came to you,
because I had heard reports about where he had fallen off. Yeah,
like he when you released him back into the wild

(01:25:17):
and he was playing with the Ravens. Well, um, well
when the first guy with me, of course, he was
a bit overweight. Um, you know, I think he was
close to like two and thirty some pounds, and we constantly,
I constantly talked to him about his weight. And once
he started to buy in and showed me a chef
that he was using and showed me his meals, was

(01:25:38):
taking pictures of it and things of that nature. Um,
you can start to see the difference of his first
team the fifteen yards coming out from football, he looked
a lot of lighter on his feet, a lot quicker
and out of his brakes. And that's where I felt comfortable.
I felt a lot more comfortable sending them out going
to a workout for any team, um opposed. I did
last year, last year when the Saints, or few years ago,

(01:25:59):
when the things brought him in, I knew he wasn't
ready for that workout. He smashed that workout straight on
the drilling, you know. Um, So I'm just I was
just happy once he worked out that I was. I was.
I was sure that once he got into training camp
and got to practice, there was not gonna be any
injuries or anything of that nature real quick. So that
was my main thing, Like, Okay, I know he's gonna
get signed, but hopefully he didn't, you know, hurt himself

(01:26:22):
in a week or so. So I knew this time,
just go around, he was ready to go for a season.
And I know that was one of the knocks on him. Yeah,
he spent a lot of times well. I saw him
develop a lot with with his ar mechanics at the
top of his routes. His arms were a lot tighter
to his body, his footwork was a lot tighter to
his body. And stayed within his frame when he was

(01:26:44):
coming out of his brakes. Usually when we first got together,
he was a little wide and sloppy with his arm
mechanics and his footwork. So just spend a lot of
times on doing short area quickness cone drills helped him
a lot with that and his body controlling it at
his size um and high spaces. So when I was
when I released them for a training camp or whatever
team he was getting ready to work out for, I

(01:27:05):
knew that they were gonna be impressed with his intermediate
route running, how well he was dropping his weight a
lot better, and you know he looked like the bes
Brian of oh um, he told me that the owner
from the Ravens told him that he looked like the
Beds Brian sixteen. So that was real good. He heard
Dad in practice, So you know I was was that
the here he came in with, like what fact like that?

(01:27:31):
But but you know, I do think back to our
sit down interview when he got released. You know he
said that he wanted he's got sort of that chip
on his shoulder of the petty g and I've got
it strong. Bobby knows that Um, he had talked about
obviously wanting to play in the NFC East and do
it against the Cowboys. How fascinating that it ended this

(01:27:52):
way that he finds himself on this Ravens team, because
can you imagine if he was in the NFC East
right now, man, especially with this depleted secondary of the Cowboys. Yeah,
I think if he would have ended up in the
in the NFC East, um, just from their quarterback situation,

(01:28:15):
I don't think he would have you know, um thrived
as much as he is now in Baltimore. I think
he would have been a little bit more frustrated and
probably would have you know, um uh you know, been
like wishing I would have went somewhere else that had
he been somewhere in the NFC, because you look at it, Um,
the red Skins they have Alex Smith now, but they
didn't start with them and started with Dwayne Haskins. Then

(01:28:36):
would have been and and the red Skins had a
chance to sign him. Uh last year they called me
on him. Um it was was interested in bringing the in,
but I didn't think he was interested in that college
time just because of the quarterback situation. Um, Philadelphia Eagles.
You look at that situation with Carson wentz Um. I
don't think it would have been a good fit for
him there either, you know so, I think everything happened

(01:28:58):
in guy's playing and it worked out how it was
supposed to be, you know. Um, because Lamar Jackson and
the way that they run their their offense, he's gonna
see a lot of one on one matchups, Abby, and
I just want to make sure that this performance I
know I need, I need six touchdowns in yards. They're
gonna they're gonna target them quite a bit. I guarantee

(01:29:18):
they're gonna targeting to me at least three or four times.
And you know they have to have and see that's
that's one of the things I wanted to ask you
here is that this is not a m you know
if I don't think that this is a critique on
a player when when the opposite way happens to him.
But generally when you get guys who come in to

(01:29:38):
play against their former team or there's like a big
motivating factor of like man, I'm coming back to go
up against this guy or this team that threw me off,
there's usually one of two things happens. One either they
have a really poor performance and it's not because you
know anything else. And then they just start pressing and
there's almost like there's too much motivation almost there, and
you kind of lose sight of the basics and everything else.

(01:30:00):
And then there's the other side, which is just you
really do tap into another level and and go out
there and play all world. We usually see one of
the two. It's not usually just some moderate performance from
somebody who's coming in with a chip on their shoulder
to play their former team. So what are you expecting
from Daz? Are you expecting the Uh? Is he gonna
be pressing a little bit? Does he need to guard
against pressing a little bit and maybe getting a little

(01:30:20):
too amped up? Or do you think he's gonna tap
into just the right gear here? I think he's gonna
tap into the right gear. Um. He seems very focused. Um.
Every time I talked to him, Um, he's in his playbook,
you know, So I can just tell that, you know,
he's diwed in. He has stretched people coming to his
house at night, stretching him at at night pretty much
every day. So I don't think he's really worried about it.

(01:30:42):
That I asked him about the Cowboys game and he said,
he's not really worried about it. A few weeks ago,
he was like, man, I'm just happy to be out
here in practice, you know, just getting my mojo back,
getting my groove back. He was like, that Cowboys game
is gonna take care of himself. They know what I
can do. So um, I know, I know, deep down
the side, he wants to have a great performance. But
I don't think he's pressing on it too much. He's thinking,

(01:31:04):
he's thinking about it. I really don't. I really don't.
I mean, he doesn't when I'm talking to him. I mean,
he probably is, like, but he's not voicing it to
me though. He's thinking. He's thinking about it more than
he's saying. After all of us and if any of
us bring us, he wants to block the energy throw.
That's what he's doing. He's trying to keep it calm,
cool and collected. I already it. He learned, he learned,

(01:31:26):
He learned well from Jason Garrett. That's a Jason Garrett answer.
How that game is gonna take care of itself. You
know we're we're not tooking that. That's man, that's the
influence of Jason Garrett there for for Dez Bryant. I
just no, no, Now when you look at the here,
when we look at Dez Bryan, what he has left
Because there was a lot of debate that Dez didn't
have anything left in the tank period, uh, and that

(01:31:48):
he wasn't going to get back out there. Now he's
gotten back out there. So now that we know he's
gotten back out there and he's gotten over that hurdle,
last question for here, what do you think is left?
How much longer do you think des can hang around
the league? I think he has at least another three
or four years in them at least. Yeah, just just
with him being around those young receivers, they're not gonna

(01:32:09):
ask too much of them, you know. Um, of course
they're gonna ask, you know, for him to connect on
the red zone. The intermediate plays the tough ball. But
I don't think he's gonna get a lot of volume
like he was the latter part of his career, where
that's harget him like ten times eleven times a game
of that nature. So I think he's gonna be able
to preserve but take his body a lot better and
a lot more In Baltimore, Well, you can keep up

(01:32:31):
with David Robinson and and all of his his you know,
trendy little slick cut videos of draft prospects and working
guys out. Seriously, David is one of the best follows
if you're wanting to learn more about the wide receiver position. Uh,
if you've got kids in the Dallas area who are
playing wide receiver, uh, David is uh somebody that you
should reach out to to help your child hone their

(01:32:53):
craft a little bit. And you can follow him on
Twitter at d rob always open and that always with
a z uh de rob. We appreciate you, man, I
appreciate you. Man. Before I get out of here, I
want to I want to tell you a little quick
nugget man, A look quick story that he did told
me this week. Um, what's the what's the deep? Marcus
Peters from Baltimore ravens um he came up to this

(01:33:16):
um at practice the other day and and told him.
He was like, man, I've ben tell him the whole
coaching staff and the front office that we should have
been signed you. I mean, because he's made the receiver
room uh that much more better that the guys haven't
been walking around talking as we smack as they usually
have before Daz got there, so he can just tell
that the receiver room and starting to get that edge

(01:33:37):
and that swagger about themselves. They're just ready to unleash
and get more targets. Keep that same energy, that same energy.
I am curious, since you are now basically an icon
for the comeback story, how many guys have called you
and said, yo, man, can you can you give me back? In?
Can you give me back? In the league? He has

(01:34:00):
been It's it's quite it's been about yeah. Really one
of them has been a Jermaine Gradchel. Yeah, he's reached
out something tight end. You know, they's played Oklahoma, so yeah,
it's been quite a few. Man. It's funny. You know
they you know, they think I can regirect their careers
and shore that's all credit to today's man and just

(01:34:22):
you know, um, just just staying consistent with it because
like Jane said, you know, he'll be here and missed
um and and and not show up sometimes of that nature.
But I'm just proud of man, and I just kept
me slept with it. Well. I credit a lot of
that to you too, De Rob. It's more it's it's
the body, It's the conditioning, but it's also the mind.
And I think he's found in you someone that he
can trust, someone that he could talk to, someone that

(01:34:45):
built him up and believed in them. And I look
forward to the next comeback story that you put together,
and we'll have you back on the show. Alright, cool,
I appreciate it. This podcast today really felt like a
reality show. Like you say you're not going to show everything,
and then the cameras start rolling. In this case, a
zoom starts rolling and it's just all it's just, you know,

(01:35:06):
we just vomited everywhere, you know, we were all over
the place. But it was nice to check in with
Darren Woodson. As he said, I see him at the
Star every time I'm up there. I think could still
look like he plays. I don't think he has a
bad day either. The guy never is not smiling. He
is a slimmed down Joe Looney. Yes, that's the happiest
guy ever. I mean, and he's like I think he's

(01:35:28):
fifty two now or he's turning fifty two here this month.
Michael Irvin and Troy Eateman. If I need to assemble
a team right now, those three guys look like they
could still play and I wouldn't put it past d
On either. Oh yeah, I meandon Dion like it's another one. Yeah,
you know, they've had a lot of guys come in
here who you know, come through the cowboys who have

(01:35:50):
stayed in incredible shape into their like forties and fifties.
But yeah, Darren, if you watch him like, you're like, man,
that dude looks like he could still go. I remember
he ran in a business suit as a bit ran
a four yard dash at the age of like forty
two for an ESPN segment and they were just going
to see how he ran in his like shoes, and
I think he ran like a four nine forty and
like business clothes and being in his forties. And and

(01:36:11):
that's a guy who had to retire due to like
a career ending injury. And so I mean, that's a
guy who's been away from the game for a long
long time and still looks like he go out there
and play. It still sounds like he wants to play.
He just hate guys like him. You hate him and
you love them guys like him. Michael Irvin, Uh, DeMarcus,
we're talking about a guy that looks like he's still play.
I mean you've seen his training videos. They just excel

(01:36:34):
at everything they do, whether it be business, whether it's
the media, whether it be playing football. I did roll
my eyes a little bit when Darren talked about like,
you know, and these struggles of going from an athlete
to a businesses. It's like, Darren, stop, Yeah, you've you've
killed it all the way from like high school on.
Stop their standard. Yeah, just stop down to our level. Yes, please,

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