Former Cowboys Asst. Coaches Kris Richard and Gary Brown Discuss the Dallas Experience

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hello, Boys and Girls, Welcome in to the Boys and
Girl Podcast with Cowboys, NFL Network reporter Jane Slater and
NFL Network producer Bobby Bell Cowboys Community with the inside
scoop on the Dallas Cowboys now coming straight to you

(00:22):
from the Lone Star State. Here's Jane and Bobby. Well,
Bobby and we certainly haven't had a lack of material
for the podcast this year, and a friend of the show,
Benda Nucci, looks like he is going to be the
starter for the Cowboys this week as they head into
what I would consider sort of a must win when
you look at how this NFC East Division is playing out,

(00:43):
and of course they've got the Steelers ahead of the
bye week, they need a little bit more confidence. And
it's funny Ezekiel Elliott said that, you know, while it
looks like Benda Nucci is this confident guy in the
huddle and we certainly, I think marveled at his confidence
when he was on our podcast this spring and his
likability factor they call it a cute factor in TV

(01:07):
when they ask the audience, how do you respond to
this person? What is what is their personality? Like? He
had a high Q rating for me. Uh, but I
think he'd be a little hard pressed to find his
college tape because he was all over the place. He
he was he uh, he started out a pit I believe,
and then he transferred over to James Madison. James Madison's
not like a giant school. It's actually kind of funny
that the Cowboys ended up with two rookies from James

(01:28):
Madison out of the draft. Um. But he he certainly
was impressive and this will be a big test for
him because I mean, it's it's basically going to come
down to Okay, if you can beat Philly, you've still
got a chance to kind of compete for the division here.
If you lose, you're not beating Pittsburgh the following week.
I'm sorry to tell you guys already that's my project,
that's my prediction. But uh, I think I think if
they lose to Philly and then undoubtedly lose to Pittsburgh,

(01:51):
I think now you're looking at, Okay, where exactly in
the top ten or the Cowboys going to be picking?
I agree, well, I think it's important for a lot
of the fans that I saw my Twitter timeline on
Sunday asking who've been to Nucci is here's just a
little sample. What do you view as your responsibility walking
in the door as somebody who's competing for that number
two spot behind Dak Prescott. Yeah, I think the biggest

(02:12):
thing for me is, you know, from from day one,
the minute I step in there, I've I've got to
be the same guy that I've been the last seven years.
And whether that's you know, push Dax with a starting job,
or or just compete to make the team, you know,
I'm gonna do whatever it takes. I've always been kind
of one of those team first guys, so not not
gonna try to overstep any any boundaries. And you know,
I know that, you know, Dak's the starter, and he
has been for the last few years, and you know,
obviously deservingly he's he's about to get paid for, you

(02:34):
know what, what he's done in the field the last
few years. So the biggest thing for me is, you know,
I'm just gonna try to come in and learn as
much as I can from him. He was in a
similar situation to me as um being a fourth round
draft pick, obviously not not in the seventh round, but
the very similar playing styles in similar situations, So being
able to kind of pick his brain a little bit
and just um, you know, absorb as much information as

(02:55):
possible as soon as I walk in the door. I
think that will, um you know, be beneficial for me.
What I think is intriguing to Ben is with the
Mike McCarthy regime, we're just as new as dealing with
him as you're going to be. But he talked ahead
of the draft the importance of having a backup that
because in Dallas they've sort of struggled with having guys
that are that they have developed enough that they considered

(03:15):
them valuable trade pieces, uh you know, moving down the line,
meaning you're going to get some meaningful reps. Do you
feel like Dallas was that sort of an ideal situation
for you, given some of the places you can go
as a backup and sort of get lost in the mix. Sure,
I think, no doubt. I think, you know, Coach McCarthy's
track record speaks for himself. You know, you look what
you did with Aaron Rodgers in Green Bay and I think, um,

(03:36):
you know, Matt Flynn was a seventh round pick that
um you know he had in Green Bay two and
he had a he had a pretty good, um, you know, career,
I think what he was in the league nine or
ten years. So um, just the guys that he's worked
with before, and you know, after being drafted, you know,
some of the other teams coaches that had you know,
been interested in me too and said, you know, dude, congrats,
you couldn't couldn't have ended up in a better place
with you know, coach McCarthy and coach and as Meyer.

(03:58):
So um, they we've just said they are calling for me,
and you know, just to stay in touch because you
never know kind of how this thing goes in the NFL.
So UM, extremely excited to get to work with coach
McCarthy and you know all that he brings to the
table in terms of getting to go and work with
Coach McCarthy and working with the rest of the team. UM,
do you have an idea of what that's supposed to
look like yet with with some of these COVID restrictions

(04:19):
still in place, do you know, I guess what's the
next step for you in this process of of trying
to get to work and then get prepared for the season.
You know, I don't, Um, you know, my coach, coach
Nowsmyer texted me last night and said, Hey, you know,
I'm gonna give you a ring tomorrow. And we've kind
of been laying out a rough schedule, but I think
some of these virtual meetings are supposed to start next week.
So um, they've sent me an iPad that has the

(04:41):
playbook and some of this stuff already preloaded into it.
So I think, you know, right, I'm in the same
position as these guys are. No one really knows how
to react and adapt this thing, So I think their
their plan is, you know, we're just gonna take the
same week by week and as soon as you know,
we hear anything else, you know, we'll relay that information
as soon as we can do you guys. What I
think is interesting too for you been is a lot
of these guys on offense are coming into a new situation.

(05:04):
With the exception you know, Dac wasn't in the virtual
chats last week by all accounts, even though that wasn't
officially confirmed. Uh, this offense literally has a week on you.
They started last Monday, and they're learning the terminology and
this new offense since there's been a change. So do
you think that helps you a little bit because I
know Dak could talked a little bit about you know,
and and this is just really applies to any player

(05:26):
when they come from college to the NFL. There's so
much information. Uh, it's really gonna rely on you to
be a self starter. Are you one of those guys?
And are you sort of embracing this challenge? Yeah. So
the thing that's actually pretty interesting about all of this is,
you know, my five years in college, I've had five
different offensive coordinators. So every every spring I was getting
used to the plan of Hey, you know, I've got

(05:47):
a new coach and I've got another quarterback competition. So
I've been a part of five different playbooks and kind
of had to had to learn on my feet quick,
you know, in those five years. So I've been around
a lot of ball and um had a lot of
different coaches. So I think that's one of the things
that I'll plan an advantages as I get going here.
But um kind of you know, the fact that everyone
comes in on ground zero and you know it could

(06:08):
be a new offense. Um, you know, I think it
just it helps me and you know, I'll try to
get back up to speed as quick as I can
and Bobby. As we look to this team, and look,
they've obviously released two players this week. They sent one
to Detroit, Everson Griffin. I still think there's gonna be
some questions moving forward as it relates to the buy

(06:29):
in how you get to these guys in the locker room.
I think it's important that there is this distinction that
you cannot devalue the importance of connection and time spent.
And Troy Aitman sort of alluded to that this week
as he tried to make sense of why this offensive
line full of so many young guys didn't immediately throw

(06:51):
hands at Bosti for that ridiculous hit on Andy Dalton. Uh.
But I think to get a sense of that, you've
got to get it. You've got to talk to some
of the guys that have done it, that have connected
with some of these players. And I'm not saying by
any means or any of these the players that are
are disgruntled, but as I said, the frustration as it
relates to this disconnect, it's been pervasive. I've talked to

(07:14):
a number of people, um who it's just not a
few disgruntled guys in the locker room or people with
axes to grind or guys that aren't grasping concepts. It
does feel like this thing is pervasive, So how do
you get a sense of them? And more importantly, where
where are they now? I always love that when what
was it v H one that did this? Where are

(07:34):
they now? Where is Chris Rochard? Where is Gary Brown?
We were lucky enough to get two guys that have
aspirations to continue coaching, one a head coach here on
our podcast. Joining us now is former Cowboys passing game
coordinator and UH former five overall pick in the I
Leave two thousand two NFL Draft out of USC Chris Richard. Chris,

(07:57):
how you doing? I'm doing great? Appreciate it you guys
having me on what was it eighty five? Was I
right on? That? Were eighty five? You? You? You were right?
You're you're You've been doing your homework? Pretty cool? I
had my fit one of my favorite notes. I had
two favorite notes, UH the last couple of years. One
was when Jason Witten entered the locker room again had
come out of retirement. Is I found a screenshot of

(08:19):
when Julius Jones on that crazy Monday night football game
with Jerry Rice in Seattle, Julius Jones running in the
winning touchdown. You can see Chris Rashard in pursuit and
Jason Witten coming into frame, and so it's like, now,
look they're on the you got the coach here, and
then the other one you posted that that was me.
That was me. I found. I found that photo because

(08:40):
I us he will find all. I and my My
other favorite little note was that you were one of
three top one picks in the two thousand two draft
that was on staff last year because Andre Gerard and
Mark Colombo were in that same draft. And when the
Columbo went in the first stround of Chicago and Dre

(09:02):
went in the second round to Dallas, that's right, Wow,
look at look at that talent pool. They're good. I know. Yeah,
it was something about that two thousand two draft. That's
maybe that's the thing. Maybe that's for future. You guys
still play right now. I feel like the Cowboys could
use come on right now. Oh no, that's the all man,
Like I got I have better be covered too. I

(09:23):
got one play left and I need to be clouded.
Oh yeah, you gott you gotta just be it as
you're not gonna go man. Yeah, no, I can't do it. No, No, Well,
I I know everybody is excited to hear from you here. UM.
I know some people have wondered, like what Chris Schard doing?
Did he end up on a coaching staff or and
and so what is it that you're doing right now?
What's the next step for you? And and what are

(09:45):
you looking forward to? Yeah? No, definitely, UM, definitely looking
forward to getting back in. UM took the year to
continue to prepare for head coach and that's that's the
ultimate goal and and that's what we're still preparing for
every day. So UM, you know, there were there were

(10:08):
certainly opportunities out there for me to continue coaching, UM,
but we didn't believe that any of those opportunities were
essentially going to be aligned with the with this open
to goal that that we're talking about. How tough was
that conversation with your family. Here's the deal. I'm gonna

(10:30):
I'm gonna take a year off. I believe that I
deserve a head coaching job, especially when we've seen the
lack of diversity as it relates to the coaching pool.
You know, they the irony is is they haven't known,
especially my boys. They have not known me outside of

(10:54):
coaching year to year to year. You know, there there
there there was a time there when I when I
stopped plane. Essentially there was half a year right the
season to where like I exclusively took care of my daughter.
You know, my my wife, who's it was it was
a stud um, Like she kind of picked up the

(11:16):
slack and she was a kindergarten teacher and like literally
she would drive fifty miles right like this is one
of those I walked barefoot in the snow uphill both
ways type deal, and like we're dealing with California traffic
and she's she's she's hitting the role every day, you know,
going to going to teach, and she was a teacher

(11:37):
in a kindergarten teacher down in Inglewood, and you know
she kind of really she really picked up the slack
for us as a as a family. And during this
time and during this transition to where uh, you know,
I made the decision to go into coaching and you know,
went to went to a usc to become a graduate
assistant and all the rest is history after that. But

(11:58):
like that moment the air was like the last time
that I actually spent like out of football, per se.
And my daughter's a she's a toddler you know at
that time, So does she really know? Like, no, she
never really knew. Um. The only one who ever really
knew me outside of professional football has been my wife.

(12:19):
So it's it's all. It was new. It was new
to them. Um, I don't know, like I think it
was like it was really good timing considering, you know,
like where we are in has been this year of
brand new with the pandemic and all this different type
of stuff and uh, retrospectively yet to be determined if

(12:42):
it was a great idea, But no, we feel we
feel great about it. And I've never had this time
to be able just to sit back and to get
to know my family intimately, you know, and it's like
and it's been amazing. And you know, like this is
my son's first year playing tackle football. You know, he's

(13:04):
in the seventh grade, Like are you kidding me? Like
I'm out there for every game watching my son play
tackle football. You know, like he's getting to do his
thing and I'm actually being able to witness it. So
it's been cool. I gotta ask you real quick on that.
You know, when Sean Payton had his leave of absence
because of bounty Gate. He tells the story about how

(13:24):
he took over coaching for his son's middle school turn
and there was this detailed playbook and a lot of
these few guys I think actually ended up in the league.
Connor of course now at TCU. How hard was it
for you not to help them come up with a
playbook and make it as detailed as possible and go
out there and coach? How hard was it to be
a spectator? Or are you even coaching? No? Not coaching?

(13:47):
From that let it's easy for me and I've always
I've always told myself that, like I just want to
be a great father, you know, and I love football,
but football's not as important as obviously my relationship, and

(14:08):
not as if I would be out there and coaching
it was gonna be bad. Like I'm not saying that
at all, but there are certain things that you kind
of recognize in your children, and regardless of the football
background and all that stuff, Like, I'm still dad, So
guess what I have to deal with, right, Dad? You
don't know? So okay, if I have to deal with

(14:32):
Dad you don't know, then I I don't know. You're right.
I'm just Dad. I don't know, like go have at it,
you know, and just go have a great time and
like really and that's that's that's what's most important. You
just watching him do it, and watch them all, watch
them all like do what they do and and do
it with love. And and I respect the space that

(14:54):
they would that they would want, right because I mean, yeah,
if Dad, if Dad gets involved, like trust I understand
coach Peyton like Sean, I get it, get it man,
like you know, And and I can't say that that
it would be anything different than that. And I'm just
not sure if they're ready for it or at least
they want it. So you just want me to be dead,
Like trust me, I could just be dead. It's it's

(15:16):
funny because my so my son started playing tackle football
same age, seventh grade, and I remember I was I
was talking to somebody actually like within the league, and
I brought this up a couple of weeks ago, but
I was having this discussion. I was like how how
like how what do I need to look for? What
do I need to be like trying to instill in him,
and like like what kind of feedback is valuable feedback
at that age, and he said, look, seventh eighth grade

(15:39):
up in the high school, that changes. But seventh and
eighth grade, the only thing you need to be looking
for from them is effort. Are they give an effort
on every snap? Or are they loafing it um? And
then the other thing is are they showing respect to
their coaches? And are are they taking instruction from their coaches?
Outside of that, you don't need to say a single
word to them about how they played or anything that.
You just need to look at fruit and were they

(16:00):
receptive to instruction? Outside of that, you keep your mouth shut.
That's it, man, Like you got it? Like where is
the manuscript? Like you said, somebody's got to write that down.
That's that's real. You know that that's absolutely true because
that definitely that in Texas high school football, there's a
lot of dads who have not even been at your
level who like to coach their kids, and I think
it's sours a lot of them as a result. I

(16:23):
want to ask you, you know, you talked about taking
the year away to prepare for being a head coach.
What does that look like for you? Coach? What has
been your process? What's been your day to day. What
nuances of the game have you been able to see
stepping away from it and being a spectator this year, Well,
it's I mean, my my ipadus is loaded, so it's

(16:44):
not as if like I'm not watching any sort of
trends or anything of that nature. And I think the
cool part is it's kind of when you sit back
and you recognize that you you don't have to reinvent
the will, but you may have to rework it. And
that's okay because it's not ever going to be about
reinventing the will, but it certainly will be about reworking

(17:05):
the will. And and I would say the beautiful part
about our game in general is there's only so many
ways that you can skin a cat. So the certain
trends and things like that that you see consistently carrying
over time and time again, like you, well, you know
you're on the right track in regards to preparation. Um

(17:25):
I'll say the the the greater portion of it is
um philosophically right. And it's kind of just reloading, you know,
it's like making sure that um, I'm on par with
the vision, with the standard um my quote. Game has

(17:46):
gotta be tight, right, So I gotta make sure that
because I have my that I have my quotes, and
and that the material is going to be, you know,
on on task. And uh and that's really been the greater,
the greater portion of it is that it's just making
sure that all the material, all the quotes, philosophically speaking,
that we make sure we stay sharp there. What would

(18:08):
you say that from your time in Dallas? Um, was
there anything that I guess challenged any of your philosophies
or anything you learned from your time in Dallas that said,
you know what, in that two years I spent in Dallas,
I learned this about the game of football. I had
always thought this, and now I'm starting to think maybe that.
Did you take away anything from your time in Dallas
that said, you know what, that that challenged some long

(18:29):
held beliefs I had about the game of football? Uh? No, No,
My my experience in Dallas was awesome. It was, it
really was. And and I would say, like the best
part of it all is that my family is here
and they're thriving, like my wife, my children, and I mean, honestly,

(18:54):
if the Dallas Cowboys never existed, like we were making
this move to Dallas period like that that was happening,
and it just so happened that the Cowboys were here
and you know, and they invited me on to join
their staff. So coming here was more about a move
for our family than it was for anything UM football

(19:16):
speaking wise, you know, just just having a chance to
get around other people, to hear other philoso, other coaches, right,
because I spent the entirety of my time in Seattle,
and just to get out and to see other people
at work. And then obviously you know, to be able

(19:38):
to see if whether or not you're going to be
able to recreate UM your standard right personally as a
gift defense, defensive coordinator, defensive coach, and things like that.
You know, I just want to just being able to
see if if who you are, what you bring, what
you represent can standard test of time. So do were
they any challenges in particular? Like, no, I can't say

(20:00):
that there were any challenges in particular. Is just kind
of being able to recreate the type of football that
you know to be a championship standard, you know, like
that's that's always going to be the challenge, right, And
that's that's what's always going to be the challenge year
after year. I think the one thing that everyone needs

(20:22):
to understand, and I think a lot of people do,
is in general, nobody comes back the same. So whether
you've been in a particular system or not, year after
year after year is going to obviously bring and present
its own different set of issues and challenges, because why
nobody comes back the same when you look at it,

(20:47):
you know, talking about some of your beliefs that you
have and uh, specifically how you had reference you know,
not you know, reinventing the whale, but you know, tweaking
the whale or however it was. I know that one
thing that has been a big philosophy of yours. And
you may not want to give away all the secrets,
but I am curious because I think fans always had
a curiosity about like, Okay, what what is that? And

(21:10):
it's uh, I've heard it called by two names, so
you can correct me on which one it is. And
it's the press man technique that you guys used that
you're in favor of. It's the step kick or the
kickstep depending on who you talk to. UM, so could
you explain a little bit without obviously giving away all
your trade secrets. Uh, what that philosophy was? What what
you try and teach in press man? And what that
is all about? Well, I could, but there and there

(21:33):
might be a knock on your door a little later on.
You don't want that knock on the door. Is it
going to be from a gum chewing gentleman? No? No, no,
in all in all seriousness, Um, well, really it's about
simplifying the game, you know. And I think kind of

(21:55):
what I've what I've grown to learn, or at least
to unders stand, is that me in particular, that I
may have to be careful with my language, right, And
I and I say that because when I say it's

(22:15):
simple or we're simplifying it, people tend to believe that
it's simple. Well, the deal is in the detail. What
makes it complicated is in the detail. But that's the
difference between kind of being a teacher and being a professor. Right.

(22:39):
The professors get more notoriety, but the teachers are the
ones that actually do the job. See what the teachers
do is they take something complicated and they make it simple.
And what do professors do, right, They love to profess.
Let me let me show everyone how it's smart. I

(22:59):
am right, like I'm the professor. This is how brilliant
I am. And well, but then typically what professors end
up doing is they take something simple and they make
it complicated. Well, our game is a complicated game. Our scheme,
our system is a complicated system. It's a system contrary

(23:25):
to what everyone else is running universally, college things of
that nature. You see more of the too high safety
look high school, right, you see the too high safety look.
They're playing quarters, they're playing cover to they're playing man
to man. Everybody plays man, right, that's the universal. Everybody
plays man. And with these, with these, with these guys,

(23:45):
by the time we get them in the NFL, majority
of their career, up to that point, they've been playing
quarters like they don't really know much else, or if
at least they're playing to cover three system, then it's
more of a match three system, which plays more like
man right, see the man the man thought right there.
So you know what we do, right, it's getting teach

(24:09):
them something new, something that they're not accustomed to, and
we're able to teach it in a form of fashion
that makes it really simple for them to understand. How
we break it down, how we introduce it, how we
practice it, how we prepare for it, and essentially how

(24:30):
the offense prepares for us. And more times than not,
what we end up doing is essentially we end up
dictating how offenses are going to attack us time after
time after time, and we have to get really good
at stopping the place that we know we're going to
ultimately see that's defensively schematically. I know you asked me

(24:53):
more in particular about, you know, the press technique, and
that's also where you know, I have to make sure
a lot of guys understand and kind of what I've
grown to know and learned early on is that this league,

(25:13):
they can pigeonhold you, all right, and they can pigeonhold
you and take the secondary secondary, right, this the secondary
in particular. You take a look at that and you
go when you have corners and safeties, and then somebody
will come out and go, oh, that guy is a
corners guy, right, and that guy's a safeties guy, and

(25:34):
you end up pigeonholing a coach and you go, well, no,
he's not a corners guy or a safeties guys. He's
a secondary coach, right, or he coaches the defensive backs
that is a defensive backs coach. And that's kind of
something that I've always had in my mind to make
sure that whoever I've had the opportunity to work with

(25:57):
that they've kind of never ever went under that umbrella.
You know. It's like, you're not you're not a safeties guy.
You're not a corners guy, like you are a defensive
backs coach, right, And it's like saying, like when when
you're you're a coordinator, Well, he's coordinating like just to
coordinate the back end, right, or he's just coordinating to coordinate. Well, no,

(26:19):
it's a it's a defensive scheme. You know, it doesn't
which I digress because yeah, you got the passagend coordinator
and all that. Like any antics, semantics when when you
try to explain something that you believe in, how do
you get some of these guys to buy in that

(26:40):
maybe don't understand understand how to do it or are
familiar with the nuances of it and the y how
do you how do you how do you get through
to them? Yeah? I think, um, I think you do
it with truth and you do it with love. And
what is what is love? A right? What is love?

(27:02):
It's you know by a subjective type of thought. And
we all know we have a feel and a sense
and an idea. Um, but what is it really, you know?
And if it's if it's one thing that I know,
it's commitment. When you when you when you say you

(27:23):
love something or you love someone, then you're committed to it.
You're committed to that person. And you know, a lot
of these guys that you know, I have the chance
to meet and I don't. I don't know him from
out and they don't. They don't know me either. Um.
The one thing that we have in common is theoretically

(27:46):
a love for football. You know, I know I love it.
You say you love it. We'll get to the point
to where we find out. And I think what guys
are able to realize, and I'm hoping that's what is
what they're able to realize, is that I care about

(28:08):
them more as a person first. I love them as
a man first. And if we work on the man,
the football player would take care of itself. I have
one responsibility as a coach, and that's to get these
guys to be the absolute best that they can be,

(28:31):
not the best football player, the absolute best person that
they can be. And the football would take care of itself.
That's number one. That's I mean really that that's the
end all, and that's where it will start and that's
where it will finish. So, whether we have one week

(28:55):
together or ten years together, and I'm able to coach you,
I want to make sure that there's a lasting impact
on your life. Too many times, especially in our you know,
in this game and it's and it starts young, it

(29:15):
starts young. Too many times in life, our guys have
to deal with interaction or they have to deal with
relationships that are all transactional. M what can you do
for me? Right? What can you do for me? Well,
that's that's not it. I'm more I'm more interested in

(29:38):
building relationships, and I'm more interested in interactions that are transformational.
So whether it's one week or ten years, we're going
to have interaction that's going to be transformational and you're
going to see, you're going to recognize that what we're
doing here is bigger than for ball. Like these guys,

(30:01):
I said, well, I mean, you know, like you have
the world that your feet and all that cool stuff
or whatever else you can think of, and like these
guys have a really great opportunity to have a great impact,
not only just on their particular environment, but on the
world in general, you know, And uh, what's a coach?
You know, Like, what's a coach? Yeah? Just just give
me the plays, give me the XS and oose. Well, no,

(30:23):
that's no, you're you're you're more than that. You're more
than that as a coach. And if you're not willing
to accept that responsibility, that you shouldn't be coaching. Have
those bonds lingered with some of the guys in the
locker room? In other words, do you still talk to
some of your guys? Think that that footprint lasted? Yeah,
I talked to I talked to all of them for
them for the most part, you know. And but I

(30:44):
would say, like the biggest thing is is like, it's
not it's not about me. It's really it's not you know.
The relationship that I'm hoping that they all buy into
more is the relationship with the guy sitting next to him. Mhm.
Those are the ones that are going to last longer
than anything, right, Like that's your peer, you know, Like

(31:06):
that's the guy that you're going to be able to
relate to more. So we'll have our relationship. But what's
most important is that those guys sitting next to one
another have the relationship that they know that they can
rely on fall beyond the years that football are going
to get them. They've got one more form. I am
curious how do you get guys to do that? Especially

(31:29):
if you I'm sure you've dealt with this in Seattle,
because Seattle is you know, always pretty active with free agency.
When you bring in some guys that aren't the homegrown
guys to the draft, how do you create that sort
of bond in the locker room? And while you haven't
coached obviously this year and in COVID, could you see

(31:49):
some limitations on that, given just like what people are
dealing with to get that bond to work, how would
you go about that? If that? Yeah, the the system
is each one teach one. So if it's someone knew
coming in that hadn't been there, well, who's responsible? Right,

(32:11):
every single man sitting in that room, every single person
sitting in that room is responsible for the new addition. Well,
it's a brand new scheme, it's a brand new system. Well,
everybody is sitting in the room is responsible for the
brand new scheme and the brand new system. If we
all take the time to hash out and go through

(32:35):
the detail, then we'll find our success. There can't be
any freelancing, can't be any making stuff. It doesn't matter
how you did it before in the past. It's how
we're doing it now. And if we all come and
that's to day this is day one. We all come
to the agreement on the vision that we have for

(32:58):
our unit. It's really easy. The coaches stand up there
and go, well, this is what we you know, this
is the vision for the team and the vision for
the defense, and this is how we want to make
sure the vision for the offense, and this is how
we want to do it. But you know, if the
butts and the seats don't agree, then um, it's gonna
be a whole lot more difficult than than than what
it should be. Um. But I think that's that's kind

(33:21):
of the thing that you want to lay out day one,
And I think it's important that after you give your vision,
then the guys have the opportunity to share their vision.
So that way, now vision of the coaches the vision
of the players, and now we combined the two to

(33:41):
find our n our synergy. And then also you're able
to take that same vision and when we're not, whenever
we're not upholding that standard. This is what we hold
ourselves accountable to. So we identify what our standard is,
we agree upon it, and now we hold each other
are accountable to it. It's uh, it's funny. I know. Uh,

(34:03):
Chris is a humble guy. He's he wouldn't tell this
story on his own, but so I'll go ahead and
tell it because I just know it personally, which is uh. You.
Chris made the point there. He said, you know, whether
it's one week or ten years. And I remember specifically
I was talking to Justin March, Cowboys linebacker, who had
about a cup of coffee in Seattle for about ten

(34:24):
days in and uh, Justin had um either right before
he got to Seattle or right after he had lost
his brother, and uh later that season when he had
moved on, they were playing Seattle, and uh he said,
you know, I was a special team's guy, mostly like
I I didn't expect Chris would even like. Remember I
had come through the locker room and he said, pregame,

(34:44):
Chris came up to him and asked him, you know,
how everything was that he'd been praying for him, you know,
you know, basically just offered him some encouragement. And uh
so Justin was saying that was like a really important
thing to him that he said, you know, I didn't
anticipate like a coach would remember me from like a
week stay or whatever. And then it wasn't just he
remembered me, but he like wanted to reach me, and

(35:06):
he wanted to talk to me, and he wanted to
you know, check on me. And I remember he was
really excited when Chris was coming to Dallas because it was,
you know, I get to be around him again, and
even though it was such a short time, it was
such a big impression on him. And so so that's
the kind of thing I think that you know, is
exactly what you're talking about. And I like you saying
commitment because one of my favorite quotes of all time
is you're getting your quote board ready, Chris for for

(35:28):
for the next one. Sinclair Ferguson, who's who's a Scottish theologian,
always had my favorite definition of love. He said love
is max He said, love is not maximum emotion. Love
his maximum commitment. And there there, there we go. So
like we've got Chris Scottish theologian. There there you go. Yeah,
Chris in line with the Scottish theologian. No, no, that's awesome, man,

(35:50):
I appreciate you. Yeah, absolutely. Now when you look at there,
there's been some question, I guess I remember when you
first came to Dallas. One of the big questions was, Man,
how somebody like Jordan lewis gonna fit in or how
because Seattle's got all these like, you know, these requirements
of that scheme requires all these sorts of things. And
then Jordan obviously stuck around the whole time you're here.
Jordan's got you know, on the field, Jordan made place

(36:10):
for the team. Um, to what extent is does your
scheme dictate what kind of personnel you're fleshing out versus
you know, how personnel dictates what kind of scheme you're
going to run out there? Is it generally the same
sort of system and just say, well, if we don't
have to say the exact parts we need, will make
some little tweaks or how do you generally approach that question?

(36:31):
Well that that's that's exactly right. And I think that's
kind of the mentality or the focus that you take
as a coach, and uh, specifically, right, it's when I
when I when I wake up in the morning, right, Like, yeah,
there's there's a there's a profile. Okay, but yeah, of
course it's a particular profile. Right, this, this is, this
is exactly what I'm looking for. Well, if you don't

(36:54):
get it, then what right? Then what? Yeah? Well the
whole idea is is and I know you guys have
heard this statement before, but like I'll take my guys
and kick your button. I'll take your guys and kick
your butts, so you know, and that's like that, that's
a that's a real mentality, and I think a lot

(37:16):
of guys that that's what makes more of the successful
coaches continuously have success. It's yeah, you you you have
an idea, right, you have a standard, you have a vision.
But what if okay, but what if you don't have
all of those guys, Well, it doesn't it doesn't make
a difference. You know, you're gonna you're gonna take you're
gonna take what you have and you're gonna make what

(37:36):
you have work. How are you gonna make it work? Right? Okay?
That what's your definitional work? Okay? Right, it's like getting
getting the guys to be the absolute best that they
can be period. I think there's been some thought or
some discussion that that people have thought that the scheme
that was being run the last couple of years, that
you know, maybe like like, well, there wasn't enough disguising,

(37:59):
which I thought was interesting because I know you had
said that your very first training camp interview you gave.
I remember the quote that stuck out to me was
he said, our goal is we want to create as
many problems for the offense pre snap as possible, and
that you wanted to make things as difficult form as
possible in general? Is that is that still you know?
Is that something that you feel like you were able
to achieve in Dallas, that you were able to do

(38:21):
those sorts of things you wanted Or is that an
instance where maybe they're right there wasn't as much pre
snap stuff and it's because personnel was dictating scheme or
how would you generally respond to that? Uh, what would
you say would be more of the threatening looks for
a quarterback when he walks up to the lane scrivilege?

(38:42):
What are the what is kind of the in general
idea in terms of just showing him, showing him a
coverage look or in terms of like showing and blitzer
or yeah, it's like something that's the most cop type
of type of menacing look right. You want to create
the type of this this look right, which is the
whole point of disguising, right, is to make the quarterback uncomfortable. Well,

(39:07):
what if I were to tell you one of the
more uncomfortable things for a quarterback to see. It's all
this why receivers pressed up. But then he looks up
and he goes, oh, my goodness, my time is getting
ready to be thrown off. All of my guys are
being jammed, all of my guys are getting pressed, all
of my guys are going to be challenged at the
line of scrimmage. Now I only say that because that's

(39:30):
just part of philosophy, because that's just a part of
the problem. Right, What were the quarterback rather see when
he walks into the line of scrimmage here, rather see
somebody on the outside soft and off because he knows, okay,
well I can go with the ball here. So yeah,
there's there's there's there's multiple ways that you can achieve
either confusing or intimidating a quarterback pre snap, and that's

(39:55):
essentially the idea, right, So the whole kind of confusing
the guy, well, I'm not sure how many quarterbacks who
get confused, like how long they actually last. I think
a big part of it is is if a quarterback
believes he has something or he believes he's going to

(40:16):
have an outlet, and then you take that away, right,
so you take what they do best away from him,
and then you start to impose your will on an offense. Um.
But disguising, that's a process. Disguising is a process that
that that's a part of the all going process. Because

(40:37):
there's a there's a such thing as ability alignment. Mhmm.
If your ability only goes so far, and yet a
defense requires a particular amount of disguise here and there, well,
if you have have to feel and you're just not
quite athletic enough to be able to show a single
high look and then get back to the half, then

(41:00):
obviously the best thing for you to do in particular
is just to go ahead and stand back there to
make sure you take care of you have because ability
says I need to be aligned here, and that's just
all a part of the general philosophy and kind of
understanding who you have and just being able to go

(41:23):
through and be able to work from there. You said
You've looked at a lot of tape this year, and
and I'm curious if you watch these Cowboys game and
if and if you have given the sense that there's
just been such a knock on this team for lack
of gap, integrity and effort and assignments. Are you shocked

(41:44):
by that? I have not had the chance to watch
them specifically. Now, I've been more of a casual fan
on Sundays, just kind of zipping through right the direct TV.
So we got we got the package, and like, I'm
exhausted by the time we get through the first series
in the morning. Look at that, right, because like I'm

(42:06):
trying to watch the balls, I'm clicking, I'm clicking, I'm clicking,
I'm clicking. And by the time we get to the
second half the afternoon, the afternoon, like we're twelveth Central time,
We're right by the time we get to the second
half of the games, Like, I'm exhausted. You think is exhausting, right, Yeah, no,
it's it's it's it's awesome, And um no, like I
love it. I love it just being able to kind

(42:27):
of go through and take a look at all the
different situations, you know, and that's that's a big part
of the kind of the preparation. It's kind of going
through each and every single game and trying to catch
as many situations as I can, you know, just get
just kind of stay a situationally involved right and situationally aware.
Has has that been tough for you? I mean, I mean,
when we talk about your career trajectory, you mentioned you

(42:49):
want to be a head coach eventually. Um, has that
presented any problems? Because when you're something who's interviewed for
head coaching jobs and and things like that, has that
presented any sort of I guess her an attention for you.
I don't want you to have to speak to somebody
else's feelings. But has that created any problems for you
where it's like, man, I don't necessarily want this guy
to think I'm coming for his job. I think that's
something that a lot of people really thought was great

(43:10):
about the way Rod Marinelli had worked so well with you,
and it said like, hey, let's let Chris do the
interviews during the week. I I'd really like to you know,
people need to hear Chris's perspective is that something that um,
you think has been it's something to consider when you're
also picking a job. Is like, hey, look, I don't
necessarily want this guy to think I'm coming for his heels,
like I'm just waiting for him to mess up and

(43:31):
I'm going to swoop in and take his job. Yeah, no, no,
no doubt. Um you know, but I think that's kind
of that comes with relationships, which I mean, it's part
of the reason why a lot of guys get hired
to begin with. But I think it's a big thing
in regards to our profession and more and more laws
on the other coaching ranks is like you gotta you

(43:53):
have you have to be willing to get to know
someone right like you can't. You can't make a decision
about someone based upon hearsafe or just because like you
ask somebody that you believe yourself that well I can trust. Well.
My thing is is when you ask someone about another person,

(44:15):
who's there to authenticate the character of the person you're
asking m So you're asking character questions or these type
of personal questions about somebody, Like that's that's what you
have to get to know yourself, you know. And I
think that that's that happens few and far between in

(44:36):
our league. Like people would rather sit back and go,
what so and so said this, or so and so
thinks that, and you know, like these false narratives and
alternative truths. That's a kind of way to say lies.
But okay, you know, and it and it kind of
but I guess that's everywhere, you know, like it plagues
our our society in general, you know, is that people

(45:00):
they're not willing to take the time to get the
nose someone themselves theirselves and you know, to answer your
question specifically, um no, I think it's it's it's dangerous
in the sense that, yeah, people can be intimidated by ambition, right,

(45:20):
So yeah, they they they they look at me. They
know what my ultimate goal is. I'm not afraid to
share it because you no, like, no, this is this
is who I am. Certainly absolutely does not mean I'm
gonna undermine or do right, So all these different things
that may come about, Well, I think what you what

(45:41):
you'll grow or learn if you're willing to you want
to know, is that I'm loyal, you know, And so
the danger of ambition is other people's problem because they

(46:02):
may be afraid for For me, it's kind of a
deal to where yeah, it's kind of it's it's kind
of a procure a peculiar place to be in because well, yeah,
like that that picture has been painted of me, right,

(46:22):
well this guy should be the next guy. And and
and like trust me, like I'm I'm flatter, you know,
like that that humbles me, But is it damaging to me?
I mean I don't know that. You know, I don't
want your job, you know, like I don't. I don't
want to take anybody's job. Like that's no, that's that's

(46:46):
that's just not me, you know, like that's that's that's
not my brand at all, right brand? Like well, you
know you talk about who speaks to your character, and
Odd spoke to your character a number of times and
said you deserved a head coaching job. Um. And I

(47:07):
think by him having you out there, you know, doing
the media with us, UM in that capacity, I think
spoke to that. You know, I don't think a guy
like Rod Marinelli is is vouching for rolling people out
there that he doesn't think are ready for that job.
I look at Matti Reflus was another one that he
spoke highly of and thought, you know, at least deserved

(47:29):
a defensive cordinator job somewhere else. And then Matt got
that in Indianapolis. If you get to sit down with
the GM after this, uh this offseason, coach, what's the
one thing that you would say to them? Wow, man, like,
that's a that's a that's a that's a really real

(47:50):
good one right there, you know, And what does this sound.
I've been through what's six of them? I've been to
six of them already. Now I don't know, man. It's
like I I feel like I'm like, I'm like I'm
red the Shawshank Redemption or something like that. Right by
the time he comes to the you know, like he
gets to the second parole that he's sitting back or

(48:11):
are you rehabilitated? You know, it's like you sit back
and you go rehabilitated. You tell me what that means, right,
So it was like like like, oh, I shoot, like
you know, but no, it's a I think it's simple, right,
like I'm ready. I've been preparing. I'm ready. And just

(48:35):
like any other coach that you would hire, it's a
blind leap of faith. So I'm not one two two
my own horn. You know, like I really don't like
to talk about me, you know, like I I don't,
but um, you don't this period, I couldn't get you

(49:00):
to talk about much last year quite right. Yeah, it's
it's it's a different time, right, like you know, kind
of in the midst of it, you know, and it's like, yes,
what's your what is your you know, we talked about
what's the players? Why? What's your Why? Why you want
to be a head coach? And I have a great impact,
to have a great impact on me on my environment, right,

(49:23):
And it's really it's it's it's through humility. It's to lead,
you know, it's to give these guys a greater understanding,
you know, to where like you gotta you have a
set of team rules, you have a philosophy, you got
all these great ideas, all this type of cool stuff.
And but really it's not about the team. You know,

(49:44):
it's not about the team. It's about being a tribe. See,
the tribe lives to exist for one another. Team is
a group of individuals coming together. You know, there's much
more power in being a tribe. And if the tribe
is connected for one common goal inside of the building,

(50:06):
then that same tribe is going to be connected outside
of the building to where now you're starting to grow
and foster these relationships to where you can start your
own businesses. Like you can go out in the community,
right and you can, like you can, you can do
it together and you're not often you're not out there

(50:28):
all by themselves. Right. And you hear all these horror
stories about all you can't trust this and you can't
trust that. Well, how about can you trust a man
who sat next to you for all these these times
to go out and get get all this stuff done.
So it's just so much more of a bigger picture
than just football. And uh, that's that's that's kind of
what I what I hope to do, you know. But

(50:50):
I do recognize and realize that, you know, just to
focus and stay focused and it may it's a big
part of the teaching to right, just stay focused on
what you ultimately control and at your your effort in
your attitude. Alright, Well seven is a lucky number, coach,
I hope you get the seven. Yeah, right, yeah, it
has it been, like I really like it has been.

(51:11):
Has it been like I think it. Hass Well, we'll
say it's six so that you can get the seven
because sevens. Uh yeah, seven's the Uh. I mean that's
that's Vegas lucky number. Seven's that's that's biblical. God seemed
to like sevens in the Bible. So I mean it's, uh,
it's it's it's a good number to have. I'm sure
we will be seeing Christo Shard on a sideline again shortly. Uh.

(51:33):
He doesn't have any Twitter Instagram for you to follow us.
I don't have that normal wrap up, but we will
just say thank you to coach Christo Shard and uh
all the best and enjoy this time, as you say,
getting to know your family a little bit better. All right,
thank you guys again, I really appreciate you joining us now.
Is former NFL running back and former Cowboys running backs

(51:54):
coach Gary Brown. Gary, how you doing. I'm doing good.
Thanks for having me, Coach. I gotta tell yet, I
have missed your smiling face in the building. And I thought,
as we are talking about this rivalry game with the Eagles,
one of my favorite memories of you is Cowboys on
the road final game. Got to get the wind to

(52:14):
get in the playoffs and you were over there jawing
with the Eagles fans like you never turned down a fight.
You know, you wouldn't have been able to do it
this year with COVID. This has been a really challenging
year coach, but I miss seeing your smiling face. So
it means a lot that you took the time to
jump on here a quick update for the fans that

(52:37):
may not be familiar. Obviously you've taken a year off
from coaching. You've been going through a personal fight of
your own. Perhaps you can share that with the fans
that I know care a lot about you and players
around the league. Yeah, Basically, what I'm going to do
is us I think cancer issue. They found some cancer
down in my Bold Duck area. Uh. It's so I've

(53:00):
been working on that. It's been a situation where I've
had some things go up and down. It's kind of
been back and forth. Uh, but for the most part
it's been very positive. I've been told that I'll be
able to continue my career. Um, I just started a
new immunotherapy type of situation where it's very good for
what I have. Uh. So it's it's a situation where,

(53:25):
uh I wish I didn't have to deal with it,
but given the situation, it's a positive outlook on a
promising future. I just got to continue to change some
things about myself. As you know, J and I I
like to eat. I had to let the pizzas and
the and the hamburgers and all that stuff go for
a little while and let my body take care of itself.

(53:47):
So uh, I'm very happy with where it's going. The
doctors are very happy with where it's going. Uh, And
I'm just looking forward to getting back to one. If
I have to say, you're having a bit of an
Adele moment here. You know, Adele has has Dave viewed,
and she is. You know, some of us haven't taken
advantage of coke, and I know I did in the beginning,
but at the end it's hard to be consistent. But

(54:07):
you look great. And every time I've checked on you,
all you talk about is wanting to get back to coaching.
You know, we had Chris ras shard on and he's
really enjoyed some of the time to connect with this family.
And I know you love your kids and you love him,
but you just can't stop talking about coaching. How much
is it just killed you to watch some of these

(54:28):
games at home. And by the way, we don't fault
you for a coach you've been you've been bad one
on your own football field here. Oh yeah, I yes,
and I agree with Chris. It's been a great opportunity
to hang out with the kids, hang out with Kim,
get to know how the house works and how she
runs it. So it's been really good. But at the

(54:48):
same time, it's been killing me not being out there
doing the things that I love to do. And what
I love to do is really teach. I really love
to teach the guys the game of football. I really
like being around uh, the guys, the coaches, uh, even
the media like yourself, the good ones, the ones that
don't try to, you know, make you look bad. But
I miss all those things. So I appreciate it. But

(55:12):
I really I really miss being out on that grass
and doing what I love to do. Uh. So I'm
really looking forward to getting back into it. I think
it was just a divine intervention, uh that would happened
to me, because if it didn't happen to me, if
I did get a job right away, I wouldn't have
even thought about going to the doctor, thought about trying

(55:33):
to get my health together. I'd have been doing the
same thing and they've got worse, and who knows would
have happened. So it was divine intervention. Uh. And now
that he is taking care of me this way, now
I can go back to work. Then thank you absolutely.
And now you have been a bit more of a
spectator this year checking out. Have you gotten a chance

(55:54):
to sit back and watch some of the Cowboys games?
Or you just you being more the channel sir, for
like Christopher shar told us he was, he was more
just direct TV channel surfing. I'm a channel surfer, but
you know, I really when the offenses the Cowboy offenses up,
I kind of stopped surfing because I like to watch
my guy. But you know, I've been watching everything and everybody. Uh,

(56:16):
just been able to try to soak up more offensive,
more offensive playbooks and more offensive philosophies and things in
that nature. So when I do get an opportunity to
go back to coach again, my my, my, my knowledge
is even better. So I've been trying to channel surf,
but at the same time, when to one is out

(56:37):
there running, I try to watch. You know, you what
a really close relationship with Ezekie Elliott, and he went
through some hard time starting with his rookie year, and
you know, there was a lot of bad press out
there about him. But it's interesting even as the years
have gone on, you know, I've sort of gotten a
different appreciation of Zeke and for who he is. But

(56:58):
what stood out for you about Zeke that perhaps those
that don't know Zeke or that aren't his inner circle
get see what what what you don't know about Zeke
is that he's a very passionate, caring, private person. I
think we all did things when we were younger that
we didn't you know, that we look back on and say,

(57:20):
I wish I wouldn't have gotten that. I think there
was a lot of things going on with Zeke at
at that particular time that you know, he was a
young young guy having fun, trying to enjoy life. But
he just made some missteps and you know, we talked
about those things. I think he appreciated me being able
to talk to him about those things. And he's moved on.
If you look at him now, he's completely different. Uh.

(57:41):
He's always been that guy to me. Uh, he's been
able to share things with me. He's always been very
upfront notice with me because I think I gave him
an opportunity or I gave myself an opportunity to open
up to him, tell things about myself. And I think
that's a key he think was coaching. I think until

(58:02):
they know you care about them as people, they don't
really care about what you know about the X and os.
I think that's what me and Zeke's relationship is built on,
and built on a personal respect, personal love for one another,
personal care about what goes on in our lives, and
I think that's how it should be with most players.
I think that's why we had such a successful relationship

(58:24):
while I was there. So Uh, the things with Zeke
that people don't realize, like you're asking, is that he's
just a normal guy. He's just a normal person. I
think you get a lot of pressure being the third
or fourth pick. There's a lot of expectation, But at
the same time, you have to understand he was thrust
into a situation at a twenty years old that I
know I couldn't be able to handle a twenty and uh,

(58:47):
you know, I think he's better for it. I think
he's become more of a leader that way. He was
trending that way when I was there. I think he's
trying to take on those steps now with that gone.
So I think, Uh, if people just kind of just
let ze zeke, he will, he will impress, and he
will continue to try to get this team right as

(59:07):
it watch him struggling. Um, as it relates to ball security,
and if if you had to sit him down as
his coach right now, knowing what you know about him
and how he responds to things, how would you work
through that with him? Well, we would sit down and
we would watch the film. I'm sure that's what they're doing. Uh.

(59:29):
Skip is a great coach, great person, So I'm sure
that's what they're doing. Um uh, And just figure out
what the problem is. Is he trying to press too
much to make a play because Doc is gone? Has
he has? He tried to put too much on his back.
I gotta make a play. I gotta make a play.
You know, people expect it from me and this and that.

(59:50):
Instead of letting the game come to him, just let
the game come to you, you know, just take those
three in four yards. You don't have to try to
snap off a fifty yard right now, you can just
go ahead and get the three four and those fifties
will come. I think it's more of him pressing and
trying to make a play, uh, instead of him trying
to just let the game come. When you look at you.

(01:00:12):
I saw another former member of the Cowboys coaching staff,
Philip Tanner, was on Twitter after Zeke had fumbled and
he kind of smacked his helmet and he was he
was frustrated, and and Philip had tweeted he said, Man,
this is I'm almost certain this is pressing because you
don't see Zeke express frustration like that. Zeke's usually pretty

(01:00:33):
I mean, he gets hyped up when he makes a play,
but he's pretty even keel. He doesn't let himself get
down too low. So so that's you can tell he's
really frustrated. Is that something that you can see right
now in the field is that he looks genuinely frustrated, like,
you know, kind of beating himself up a little bit,
and that he needs to just kind of refocus a little.
I agree. I think that he just needs to just
get back into his lane, just be Zeke, and that's

(01:00:55):
him plenty for the last four years, five years it's
been plenty, So just go back to be who you
are and those runs will come. Obviously, being banged up
up front, you know that's going to take a toll,
you know what I mean. But I think he has
the ability uh to go out and be able to
make plays, uh and and not have to worry about
who's blocking up front because he's that talented. He just

(01:01:17):
has to stay within the scheme, stay within himself and
go out and play and not put that pressure on
himself to make a play all the time. Coach, when
you talk about wanting to coach, you've given us the
why you love to teach. You love to build up men,
you know. I know you've talked about you're gonna be
ready to go when the season is over to get

(01:01:38):
back into it. If you can get in a room
with a GM or an owner, what would you say
to them, why should they hire you? And do you
want to continue being a running backs coach? Uh? Well,
I asked the first question first. I think you know,
a GM or owners should hire me because I love
what I do. I'm passionate about what I do. UM.

(01:02:02):
I just enjoy the day to day coaching grind. I
enjoy it. What you're gonna get from me is somebody
that's going to uh put everything he has into his players. Uh.
He's going to have high expectations for his players. The
standard is gonna be set high. The expectation is gonna
be set high. I'm a loyal soldier. You'll never have

(01:02:23):
to worry about me going outside the box and trying
to pump myself up to somebody outside the building, or
we should be doing this, or we should be doing that.
I was raised by my father. He was a military
guy that you stay in line, and you you become
part of the solution, not the problem. Uh. I'm gonna
go fight, period and uh you're never gonna to worry

(01:02:46):
about me not giving you a thousand percent. Uh. The
second question, uh, I I have desires to be more
than a running back coach. I understand the business. I
understand that us as running back coaches. It's a hard
road to get to being a coordinator. But it's not impossible.
You can get at Eric the enemy, look at Andy,

(01:03:08):
Anthony Lynn, you look at guys that have done it there.
You just have to find an opportunity. You have to
find a guy that's gonna say you know what, Gary,
I'm gonna take you away from running backs for a
year or two and let you coach the quarterbacks or
let you coach the receivers, because I think that you
can do it. Uh. So I need to find that guy.

(01:03:28):
Uh And when I find that guy, I think that
I'll be able to do that. But until then, I
want to continue to try to be the best running
back coach. How much of what you saw on in
the locker room with somebody who was in there as
much as you were, and you were around the guys,
how much do you think the Cowboys lost, not just
in in what kind of a player he is? What

(01:03:51):
do you think the Cowboys probably lost when Dak Prescott
went off in terms of what what is his I
think a lot of people just view him as well,
we don't really see what he does, you know, Monday
through Saturday. We we see he's a lead by example
guy in the field. But I mean, is he a
vocal guy? Is he a guy that they're probably really
missing right now just for their culture, They're definitely missing
Dak Prescott. Uh, you don't really the outside world doesn't

(01:04:15):
really understand how valuable he is in the locker room
on that Monday through Saturday. The way he goes about
his business, the way he prepares, the way he does
the things that are necessary for him to be the
quarterback of the Dallas Cowboys. He's not the raw roth
screaming holler. It's by example and by what he does

(01:04:36):
day in and day out. They are missing him, uh immensely,
and you're not going to fill that void uh until
he gets back. Obviously, you want to have guys step
up and try to fill those shoes a little bit,
but nobody is is going to feel those shoes completely. Uh. So, yes,
that is a huge, huge missing piece from the dallascow

(01:05:00):
When did you realize with special Well, i'll tell you what.
I have a story about Dak. I knew Dak was
special to his rookie year because he came in and
he was, you know, very attentive. He was wanting to
learn everything. And there was one night that I was like, man,
I can't these signals the quarterbacks are doing. It's going

(01:05:20):
over my head. They're doing them too fast. I need
to talk to a quarterback. So I knew tune Tony
wasn't gonna help me, because you know, it was training camp,
and he had his things. So I said, let me
just ask this young dad to come to my room
and help me with these signals. And he came and
helped me for like a week straight, and I got
the signals down because he would test me and come

(01:05:42):
by to the running backs coaches room on at night
at training camp to help me a coach. So I
knew right then that this guy, if he ever got
an opportunity, was going to be very very special. And
how does he uh teach? And and and because I
wonder if it translates even into the quarterbacks room with

(01:06:03):
some of the guys behind him, how does he teach?
I mean, is it the same sort of enthusiasm that
we sort of see even when you talk to him
in the in the locker room. It's the same thing.
He's the same person day in and day out, which
makes him very easy to deal with. You're never gonna
get this lower coaster with him. You're gonna get even
kill unless he wants to make a point, then it's

(01:06:24):
ving to go up a little bit. But it's not
ever demeaning. It's not ever a situation where he's talking
down the guys. He's one of the guys. Even though
he's the quarterback of the Dallas Cowboys, he feels like
he wants to be one of the offensive life. He
wants to be a receiver, he wants to be one
of those guys. He just wants to be the guy.
He doesn't want to be this thing that his person

(01:06:44):
that's separated for everybody else. So that's what makes him great.
When I think there's been some frustration, mainly just from
kick returns and things like that, But I think some
fans have been frustrated with like, oh man, Tony Pollard
do isn't doing? Isn't doing the job that he needs
to do right now? Um? And I think people have
just seeing such a small glimpse of his ability and
and what he can be. And and you saw him

(01:07:05):
all the time out of practice. What kind of a
player as Tony Pollard and and and just I guess
speak to his ability and what kind of future you
think he has. I think Pollard could be a special player.
I think we all saw what he did last year.
We all seeing kind of when he gets his opportunities
this year. He's very explosive, very explosive, has good c

(01:07:25):
o D change the direction, Uh and he's a home
run hitter from anywhere on the field. Uh. You know,
he just needs his opportunities. Uh, and I'm sure he'll
get those. Um, but I would I would tell the
fans don't be frustrated. Uh. You know, he's doing what
he's asked to do at this point. Uh. He just
can't run in the game and say, hey, I'm playing

(01:07:46):
right now. It's a it's a thing where they have
a plan for him and he's I guess he's trying
to execute the plan as best he can. Uh. I
think going forward, Uh, if he was to ever become
a starter there it be in Dallas or anywhere else,
you would see a tremendous skill set because you know,
he can catch the ball out of back, so he

(01:08:06):
has a receiver background, he has a route running background,
and he's a talented runner. So uh, I think this
the the future is very bright for Tony Pollard. So
we do have to be patient. It wasn't always thirteen
and three seasons like we saw for the dak Zeke

(01:08:28):
rookie season. There were a lot of up and down years.
There were injuries. Um, there was obviously questions about coaching.
Can you remember a singular moment where it felt like
things we're tough, and how how this locker room, how
this coaching staff was able to come together. Well, I

(01:08:49):
mean that one year, the year that it would be
two thousand and fifteen, sixteen, I think that we drafted
seeing sixteen. So the year before that was pretty tough.
That's why we were a fourth pick or third pick
or wherever it was. I think what kept us from
falling apart was the men in the locker room. Uh,

(01:09:13):
the guys, the Jason Witten's, the leaders that were in
the locker room. As far as us coaches, we just
kept believing of what we were doing. We leaved in
our coaching philosophy. We believed in what we were doing offensively,
we believe in what we're doing defensively. And we never
straight off the course. Uh. And that's what I thought
kind of kept it together. Even though we weren't playing

(01:09:34):
really well. It never felt like we were um losing
the team so to speak. Uh, it always felt like
the guys are ready to fight every week, and we
went out and tried to play the best we could.
So aside from not deviating from what you felt philosophically,

(01:09:55):
is what you wanted to be offensively and defensively. As
a coaching staff, how important was it to connect with
these guys and how do you do that in times
when things are tough. Well, I think it was very important.
I know Jason always told us as a staff that
we have to know our players. We have to get
to know our players. You have to be uh, you

(01:10:18):
have to know them as well as you know your
own kids. Uh. So it was a situation where we
took pride in trying to get to know him. We
would we would, you know, do certain things are our players.
We would have them over for dinner, we would do
things to get to know him because it's so important
because again, like I really believe, until they know you
care about them as people, they don't care about what
you know about as they don't they don't care how

(01:10:40):
you can help them. Let me know you care about
me as a person first, and then we can go
with the football stuff. So Jason was very very adamant
about those types of situations, and uh, we would just
do whatever we had to do to make those guys
understand that we are here for you. Period. We're not
here for it. It's not about us it's about you eyes,
what can we do to help you? So that's how

(01:11:03):
we run about it. When when you challenging with COVID,
do you think that it would be hard to connect
as a new coaching staff of COVID the Cowboys? The
Cowboy you know coaches right now are behind the able.
You know, they had no time to get to know
these guys. They had no time to O T S
none of that stuff. So you know for them to

(01:11:23):
get to know them like like we did. Uh, they
didn't have that opportunity. So, uh, they're behind the eight ball.
And it's just a sad situation that they didn't get
a chance to know the guys like we did, like
giving them, like giving those months of O T A
S And training camp and all those things to get
to know him. They didn't get a chance to do that.
So I think they're behind the apone that one. When

(01:11:45):
you uh look at a situation like um, what happened
last Sunday with with Andy Dalton going down? Um and
you always being an animated guy and a and a
heart and soul kind of guy. Um, had you been
over on that sideline, would you have after the series ended,
would you have expressed any sort of like, guys, come on,
we can't just have the quarterback hit hit like that

(01:12:06):
and and just kind of stand around and not say anything. Yeah,
it probably wouldn't been that nice, though it would have
been that nice just generally, I'm I'm summarizing, have made it.
I would have made it very clear that we can't
play that way. But I think that you know, and
I'm not trying to make excuses for him, but those

(01:12:28):
offensive linemen that were in the game, they're young, they
don't know, I don't. I think they're more concerned about
his health than they were about defending him because the
hit was a very vicious hit. Uh. I think if
you'd had Tyrone Smith, uh Zack Martin those guys in
the game, that Boston would have got gripped up as

(01:12:49):
you should have. Uh. I come I played in the
era where uh yes, that that linebacker would have been
dealt with. So that's how I would out with it.
And uh And I think going forward, this is going
to be a learning experience for those young guys at Hey,
you know, we gotta protect our quarterback. That's our leader,
that's our that's the guy that we are paid to protect.

(01:13:12):
And uh, we can learn from this and move forward.
I ask you this because you've been in a number
of locker rooms as a player and as a coach.
But we've kind of, Bobby and I have sort of
compared this to a bit of a sou fla this season.
You know, you sort of need the right heat, you
need the right ingredients, you need a capable chef um

(01:13:35):
for it to rise. Feels like all of that has
been off in varying degrees of the preparation of the
sioux fla. In other words, that they thought it was
gonna look just like they saw him pinterest, and they
didn't quite preheat the oven enough. Maybe they substituted uh,
this ingredient instead of using what Pintera said. And the

(01:13:59):
person and by the way, was making the sufl a
maybe didn't follow the instructions as best they should, right,
Is it possible that that that's kind of what's happening
here in Dallas? In other words, it takes a lot
for locker room chemistry to happen. It's not ready made um.
And then when you add a couple of outsiders via

(01:14:22):
coaching staff and players, that can be really hard to
expect that things are going to go without Hitch and
then you're going to have all of these injuries. Absolutely,
I agree with you a thousand per cent. You can
bring in a new staff, you bringing new players, Uh,
you have all these injuries, you have a pandemic. It's
not there's guys. If you look at the teams that

(01:14:44):
are playing well, the Pittsburgh's, the Seattles, those guys have
been together forever. The system is the same, everything is
the same. For the Cowboys who have been dealing with
what they're dealing with, new staff, new players, pandemic, all
these things. It doesn't bode well for success. It really doesn't.

(01:15:04):
And you have to give those guys a chance to
have an O T. A S and have a training
camp before you can say that, oh, they need to
be gone and this and that. That's that's not really
fair to those guys. Um, But I agree, it's something
is just off. It just did. And we can look
back at a lot of things, and I really believe
that without the O T. S and all those things,

(01:15:26):
and the pandemic and Zoom meetings, and I mean, I
don't know how I would have dealt with a Zoom
meeting with money backs like, that's not what we do.
We get in the room, we get on the board, hey,
and we ask questions. You guys get on the board.
There has to been the interaction. This was This would
be very difficult for me to teach, you know, And
I know this new fangled way of teaching, and I
know all the schools are doing it. But for me,

(01:15:50):
I'm a hands on guy. So I really I really
feel for those guys over there. A lot of still
those guys are still my friends. But you know, it
is money saying connection. That's that's important absolutely as a
coach to connect with the players and the players to
fill that connection. And if that's off. Have you seen

(01:16:11):
in your experience that that's where things sort of start
to fall apart. Absolutely absolutely, If I can't, if I'm not,
if my relationship is built off a computer screen from
the start and all of a sudden, oh yeah, you
guys can play come to training camp. They don't know me,
I don't know them, they don't know what my expectations,

(01:16:33):
My mannerism is none of that. I think it. Personal
interaction is very important to the development of a relationship,
whether it be football, your wife, your kids, whatever the case.
May be. I think it's very important and for them
guys not to have that on top of the injuries,
on top of everything else, it's just bowing for what's

(01:16:54):
going on right now. Well as we h as we
wrap up here, I know you said you have aspirations
that go beyond just you know, being a running backs
coach that you know, look at Eric b Enemy and
guys like that. So if somebody were to ask Gary
Brown's a Gary, what what's your general you know, you know,
give me your two minute philosophy of like of what
should an offense look like? What is it that you

(01:17:15):
want to do with with our offense? What? What did
you say your ultimate goal of designing and offense would be?
I think my offense would be uh multiple in its
formations and looks. We would want to be as balanced
as possible. I would say a sixty forty pass run. Uh,
but we want to be I want to create as

(01:17:35):
much confusion and be making a defense feel as uncomfortable
as possible with motions, with formations, uh, with kind of
never giving the defensive chance to rest. We do a
lot of no huw uh. And again we would do
some things where uh, the speed, the jets, sweeps and
all those things that would be necessary for keeping a

(01:17:57):
defense off balance. I think that's what I would want
to do. I think that again I want I would
want to be a vertical passing game, but yet and
still I want to have the underneath passing game as well.
The run game I think for me would be a
mixture of a zone scheme with a gap scheme field.
I think that I want a major in the zone scheme.

(01:18:19):
I think it's easier for the back. I think it's
easier for the offensive line because again they get to
come off the ball. The gaps schemes are more uh
intricate and what they want to do with the down
blocks and this and that. Uh. So we would be
multiple in that way as well. UH As far as
uh you know my philosophy, I would build it from

(01:18:40):
the inside first. I would want to build it from
the old line first. Obviously you'd want to try to
get uh the inside of your You're gonna get your
left tackle to take care of your quarterback. We want
to build it that way. First. We obviously want to
get our quarterback, UH. We want to get our runner uh,
and we want to get our receivers so you know,
it would be a situation where again, I want to

(01:19:02):
build it from the inside first, uh and go from there.
I gotta say, man, you know you look at UH
talking about sixty forty passing, vertical pass, game levels, concepts,
building the old line, all the pre snap motion. I
think we'll tweet out this clip. I think Twitter is
gonna start petitioning for you to just be offensive coordinator

(01:19:23):
of their team. You're gonna like see a ground swell
of support for Gary Brown for offensive appreciate I've been
around a lot of great coaches, uh, you know, from
high school up. Uh. You know, I've been around great
offensive coordinators, and I've tried to take as much as
that possibly can to try to build my own philosophy.

(01:19:44):
And if I ever get that chance, you know, I
think I'd be ready. I'd enjoy enjoy having the uh,
the opportunity to build an offense and and uh just
be ready to go. Well, You've got the popular for sure,
because lot of us media love you, We stay in
touch with you. UM. I know your players loved you, UM,

(01:20:06):
and I think all of us specifically have been fighting
for you, and we're so glad that you're fighting for
yourself right now. I wish you the best of luck,
and I hope that you and I are talking in
a couple of months about where you land next, and
we hope you'll come on the podcast to talk about it. Absolutely,
you want to be the first person to call him,
call you first. You're the best. You so much and

(01:20:28):
thank you for joining us on the show. Absolutely, no problem. Okay, Well,
thank you so much to Christos Chard and Gary Brown
for joining us today. UH too, really impressive guys and UH,
guys who will no doubt be on sidelines again soon
and guys you can look forward to seeing out there
coaching players soon and again all the best and prayers
to Gary Brown is uh. He fights this cancer diagnosis

(01:20:51):
and he sounds optimistic and if anybody's gonna fight, we
know it would be Gary Brown, and so we have
a lot of optimism there. But certainly lend him your
thoughts in your prayers and UH as we head into
this game with Philadelphia, UM, lend your thoughts and prayers
to some of these guys on the Cowboys sideline because
it's been a rough couple of weeks and I think
they'd like to sneak out of victory, and it's always

(01:21:12):
good to beat Philly, so hopefully they can get it done.
I don't have a ton of optimism, but this is
kind of I think a teetering point for the Cowboys.
Do they continue to pursue the division or do they
pursue a top ten pick in the NFL draft. Will
certainly have our answers after this week, and I cannot
believe I didn't address this for our listeners that aren't
watching us on YouTube. The black Cat shirt apropos as

(01:21:35):
John showed. A friend of the show and writer for
The Atlantic pointed out, they haven't been the same. It
is uh, I always say that. Why do I always
do that? Because The Atlantic is an outlet, But it's
just it's not the applet. But but even still it
makes sense. But yeah, John did have a great note
there about that the Black Cat. As much as everybody thought, man, look,

(01:21:56):
this turned it around and they won that game thanks
to the Black at the black Cat was a jinks
for the Giants. It certainly seems now like the Black
Cat was a jinks for Dallas. It is Halloween this
weekend ahead of the game, so hopefully they won't give
us a fright and his reign of terror will end.
Interesting side note, it sounds like they never quite found
that black cat in New York. Oh, that poor cat

(01:22:18):
just running around, you know, leaving probably you know, litters
of kittens all around the stadium to haunt future teams.
I did see one on the Katie Trail the other day,
and I kid you not. I mean, I was hitting
my stride and I immediately turned around and I ran
back the other way. It doesn't maybe he did find
his way to dall. It does not have to be
a black cat. It could be like one of those

(01:22:40):
marmalade cats, or like anything else, And like I would
still turn the other way because cats are mean. Cats
are all pissing vinegar, and I don't trust them. I'm
just gonna say they're smaller, domesticated versions of the larger
you know, lion and tiger that would eat you. And
so I just I know that attitude lives within them.
So I just don't trust them, and you shouldn't

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